Patterico's Pontifications

12/29/2020

Covid Vaccine: Who Is Getting It, Who Isn’t

Filed under: General — Dana @ 11:40 am



[guest post by Dana]

Gov. Andrew Cuomo of New York is raising a ruckus with his acknowledgement that addicts in rehab are next to receive the Covid vaccine this week:

During a virtual news conference in Albany, Cuomo said the state was expecting to receive a combined 259,000 doses of Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines.

In addition to urgent care center employees and “individuals who are administering the COVID-19 vaccines, for obvious reasons,” Cuomo said that shots would be given to residents of “OASAS” — the state Office of Addiction Services and Supports.

The agency runs 12 treatment centers across the state, with five located in or around New York City, and also certifies and monitors “hundreds” of private facilities, according to its website.

“These are congregate facilities. Congregate facilities are problematic. That’s where you have a lot of people in concentration,” Cuomo said.

“Nursing homes are obviously the most problematic because they’re congregate plus older, vulnerable people. OASAS facilities, what we call the O facilities, they’re congregate — not necessarily older — but congregate facilities.”

Residents and staffers will be vaccinated at both the state-run and privately operated rehab centers, as well as at facilities run or licensed by the Office for People with Developmental Disabilities and the Office of Mental Health, according to the state Department of Health.

Emergency medical services personnel, medical examiners and coroners and some funeral workers will also get shots, a DOH spokeswoman said.

After lobbying by a non-profit residential treatment center, the decision to give them a place toward the front of the line was made. The decision to prioritize recovering addicts was explained thusly:

…it made sense to give the shots to drug users because they were most likely “to get the disease and spread it.”

“We were overlooked initially. We got the governor’s office’s attention and Gov. Cuomo acted appropriately,” he said.

Meanwhile, Congressional staffers are now eligible to get the vaccine. This after members of Congress received the vaccine earlier this month:

Congress’ attending physician informed lawmakers Monday night that two staffers in every House member and senator’s personal offices are now eligible to receive the coronavirus vaccine.

In addition, the Office of the Attending Physician is offering the vaccine to four staffers of every committee chair and every ranking committee member.

Congress received a limited batch of vaccines for lawmakers in mid-December that Monahan at the time indicated would be parceled to a small number of staffers if supplies permitted. His Monday night memo suggested that the early batch will provide for more than 1,000 Capitol Hill staffers to receive the two-shot regimen.

We knew that prioritizing the vaccine was going to be contentious and that any decision would bring about complaints and frustration. But it’s jarring to read about these frustrations unfolding in medical facilities across the nation:

Health care workers across the country have started receiving COVID-19 vaccines, but doctors and nurses at some of the nation’s top hospitals are raising the alarm, charging that vaccine distribution has been unfair and a chaotic “free-for-all.”

At hospitals in Massachusetts, New York, Arizona, California and elsewhere, medical professionals say that those with the most exposure to COVID-19 patients are not always the first to get vaccinated. And others who have little or no contact with COVID-19 patients have received vaccinations.

We also should have known that who you know would be a factor in whether non-frontline workers get the vaccine too.

–Dana

80 Responses to “Covid Vaccine: Who Is Getting It, Who Isn’t”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (cc9481)

  2. Wonder if the Biden administration will be less incompetent at this?

    Time123 (ac92c2)

  3. Question for the group — would you find a legal way to push yourself to the front of the line if you could?

    My answer is “yes”. Partly because I really don’t want this. Partly because I live in dread of giving this to my wife (and my uninformed guess is that vaccine will help with transmission).

    Appalled (1a17de)

  4. I’m in no rush. Not in a high risk group. Somehow haven’t gotten it already.

    My pharmacist who is high risk has no interest in getting it.

    NJRob (3037a8)

  5. Shouldn’t you check first to see if you have antibodies?

    A lot of people got “vaccinated” without knowing it. AND THIS IS BESIDES THE 40% OF THE POPULATION OR SO who got, in years past, one of the cowpox versions of this disease, which should provide limited immunity but I don;t know how much.

    Sammy Finkelman (7e803d)

  6. @2

    Wonder if the Biden administration will be less incompetent at this?

    Time123 (ac92c2) — 12/29/2020 @ 11:53 am

    It really isn’t up to any administration. It’s the local governance who controls the distribution.

    In my neck of the woods in Missouri, our Elderly and patient-facing staff workers are getting the priority.

    whembly (c30c83)

  7. @5 Logistically, we’re not there yet to be able to rapidly test antigens in such large quantities in short order.

    whembly (c30c83)

  8. If somebody went through a few days or a week of having no appetite, and had a sore throat or cough, they probably had Covid.

    Sammy Finkelman (7e803d)

  9. It really isn’t up to any administration. It’s the local governance who controls the distribution.

    Logistically, we’re not there yet to be able to rapidly test antigens in such large quantities in short order.

    This is a a function of the administration punting on national planning. None of these issues were/are insurmountable, at all. In the US, we have, at least, 52 different response plans. The Trump admin outsourced the entire process to UPS/FedEx and Pfizer/Moderna’s shipping department, which sorta misses the point, it’s from the shipping clerk to the arm that was always going to be the hard part. UPS and FedEx have been shipping stuff for a while now, that was never the problem.

    That’s like running a war and declaring victory when you’ve shipped the bullets to the depot…not the point.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  10. 4, your pharmacist might know a secret sauce from the Sammy Finkleman product line or, by virtue of years of interacting with sickly and infectious customers, may have acquired “Madonna” type immunity.

    urbanleftbehind (78ae79)

  11. #5. My niece had COVID last March. She’s still getting the shot. (She is a frontline worker and entitled to it, and does coronavirus research)

    Appalled (1a17de)

  12. This is a a function of the administration punting on national planning. None of these issues were/are insurmountable, at all.

    Most states will administer it better then if the feds did it. The feds would have botched this in all 50 states.

    Mattsky (55d339)

  13. Most states will follow the golden rule: Those with the gold rule. Like ted cruz helping his billionaire contributor getting covid funds. Also like those in congress who said covid was a hoax getting first in line for the vaccine. Were looking at you joni ernst.

    asset (7a3e91)

  14. Most states will administer it better then if the feds did it. The feds would have botched this in all 50 states.

    That’s pure speculation, and most is not all.

    Most states would do better if the starting point was on second base instead of before boarding the bus.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  15. Most states will follow the golden rule: Those with the gold rule. Like ted cruz helping his billionaire contributor getting covid funds. Also like those in congress who said covid was a hoax getting first in line for the vaccine. Were looking at you joni ernst.

    Also, in nearly every case it’s olds, front line healthcare, and congregant settings. Sure, congressfolks younger than me are stepping in front of the line, but we’re 2 million deep now, and probably 1.995 million were mostly right. Which is probably as good as your going to get without…planning.

    Again, most states are mostly doing the things they have to as best they can.

    Operation fictional velocity is going to end up at around 10% of their goal for 2020. It’s logistics stupid. Plan is a four letter word I know, but it not that kind of four letter word.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  16. That’s pure speculation, and most is not all.

    It is speculation based on the feds track record. Most is still the better option.

    Mattsky (55d339)

  17. The new Covid strain has been found in the US:

    The first case of a new and potentially more infectious strain of Covid-19 has been confirmed in the United States, Colorado health officials said Tuesday.

    Colorado health officials confirmed the case and notified the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The infected individual is in isolation in Elbert County, about an hour and a half south of Denver. Officials said the man, who is in his 20s, does not have a travel history.

    “There is a lot we don’t know about this new Covid-19 variant, but scientists in the United Kingdom are warning the world that it is significantly more contagious. The health and safety of Coloradans is our top priority and we will closely monitor this case, as well as all COVID-19 indicators, very closely,” Colorado Governor Jared Polis said Tuesday.

    And there’s this:

    The Trump administration does not plan to impose Covid-19 screenings for passengers arriving at U.S. airports from the United Kingdom, Reuters reported, citing officials familiar with the matter.

    Dana (cc9481)

  18. 11. Appalled (1a17de) — 12/29/2020 @ 1:12 pm

    #5. My niece had COVID last March. She’s still getting the shot. (She is a frontline worker and entitled to it, and does coronavirus research)

    That’s what, for now, they say to do. And they’re not giving as a reason that’s it would be too complicated to test things.

    They’re giving as a reason that they’re not sure getting the disease confers immunity, or at least immunity that lasts. (now immunity can last a lot longer than you can prove it because the antibodies stop circulating on the blood, but there are memory B cells, for which however, I think there is no test except maybe you could have a challenge test.)

    What’s irrational about all this (the recommendation that people should get vaccinated after infection) is that this would presume that a vaccine gives you stronger immunity than an actual infection, while everything we know about infectious diseases tells us that’s not so. Even if this vaccine confers unusually strong immunity for a vaccine.

    Except of course for a very minimal exposure that was beaten back early without stimulating the immune system. But then a person wouldn’t show many antibodies.

    Another thing that’s being said is that getting vaccinated doesn’t necessarily mean that you couldn’t get a mild or asymptomatic case and be contagious – because in the trials, they didn’t (and probably couldn’t) check for that. (and therefore mask wearing should continue even after most people have been vaccinated.)

    But awhile back the WHO was about to correct its claim that the disease could be transmitted by asymptomatic people – it’s only pre-symptomatic people who can do that. The dose is the poison. But they were prevailed upon not to quite say that.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7310638

    On June 8th, 2020, WHO official Maria Van Kerkhove said that asymptomatic transmission of the coronavirus was “very rare.” However, she later clarified this statement saying, “the available evidence from contact tracing reported by Member States [of WHO] suggests that asymptomatically-infected individuals are much less likely to transmit the virus than those who develop symptoms.”

    You know, sometimes, the contact tracers may finger an innocent person, because a lot of the time it is not traced at all, because for very long they assumed a maximum distance of 6 feet or so, or surface contact, which is pretty much false. A good trace would be when there are few possible sources or ore than one person can be connected to an event.

    Sammy Finkelman (7e803d)

  19. Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 12/29/2020 @ 1:53 pm

    It’s logistics stupid.

    The only thing that was easy to do is big medical facilities and congregate living centers. And that’s what they did. There’s no way to prioritize other people. The British did it but that’s because they have a National Health Service. Most people use government doctors and they could give it to elderly people on their next appointment.

    The only practical method, once you do these easy to do assemblages of people, is a free for all. First come first serve, at pharmacies, hospital or clinics.

    You could add to this more places of employment, especially places known for being possible hot spots, such as meat packing plants, and attempting to interest people in getting the vaccine, and doing things such as maybe organizing trips from churches.

    Sammy Finkelman (7e803d)

  20. It is speculation based on the feds track record. Most is still the better option.

    Yeah, like the programs for Smallpox, Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis, Polio, Measles, Mumps, Rubella…

    Really, the only bad example of the feds deploying a vaccine was the 1976 Swine flu, and even then, the controversy oversold the connection to Guillain-Barre.

    You also seem to be construing the federal collaboration in the process to distribute to the end user, i.e. arms and asses, with cooperation with the state and local government; to them being somehow completely disconnected. That is the problem with the administration’s response, not understanding the power of we vs I or you. It doesn’t have to be either/or, it should be both.

    The current plan is between vaccination providers->UPS/FedEx to some states or localities or local health providers, depending who got on the shipping manifest first. And this is only for Phase 1a/b currently, the other 325M people aren’t even part of the current federal plan. To get the US vaccinated, we need 3/4 of a BILLION doses to be shipped.

    Hopefully, by summer we’ll have a single dose vaccine that doesn’t require a deep freeze. But that’s not what we have, so the logistical complexity is both simpler, because it’s a small population, and more complex, in that you have to plan to store the vaccine at every level in an environment that is atypical.

    With a couple of phone calls, the admin could have talked to the 3 largest EHR providers in the US that could define the scope each slice of the population for over 290M people, and with a voluntary opt in by the patient (or an act of congress to bypass HIPAA/HITECH), known the location to deliver every priority dose in the country (See NHS rollout)…and one of the three is the federal government, because all of that data is required for HIPAA title 2. There was a town hall on October!! 29th with operation fictional velocity, but it was a joke. Heck, congress was briefed in June, but maybe someone has noticed that Congress doesn’t have much operational control. None of this was unknown to the US health orgs, they were barred from doing it. Israel, the UK, the EU, Singapore, etc, ended up being the source for most of the logistics base that was used, the US finally got involved with the priority coding in November, 4 months after the NHS.

    Sure, why couldn’t the states do it? They don’t have the people, the money, the expertise, or the data, other than that they’re great. That’s why a national response as one nation is good for a national problem. It’s really bad for 52 (not including states like Florida who are delegating to counties, so maybe 2,000) responses to one national problem, or at least it makes it pretty likely that mistakes are repeated, over and over again.

    There are reasons why the federal government is a good idea, and things that they are actually useful for, this is one. If this isn’t national defense I don’t know what is.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  21. 10. urbanleftbehind (78ae79) — 12/29/2020 @ 1:01 pm

    your pharmacist might know a secret sauce from the Sammy Finkleman product line

    Ivermectin, but it does require a doctor’s prescription. The FDA recommended against it though, although results hinted it helped.

    https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin

    https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Testimony-Kory-2020-12-08.pdf

    We now have data from over 20 well-designed clinical studies, ten of them randomized, controlled trials, with every study consistently reporting large magnitude and statistically significant benefits in decreasing transmission rates, shortening recovery times, decreasing hospitalizations, or large reductions in deaths. This clinical data is also supported by multiple basic science, in-vitro and animal studies. Our manuscript, completed one week ago, is already out of date due to the near daily emergence of new, positive ivermectin studies. The manuscript has been posted on the medical pre-print server OSF (Open Science Foundation) and can be downloaded here https://osf.io/wx3zn/ or on our organization’s website, http://www.flccc.net.
    more updated meta-analysis and review authored by a group of Ph.D. researchers and scientists
    includes all ivermectin studies as of December 4th, 2020 and can be found on the c19study.com
    website here: https://ivmmeta.com

    These data show that ivermectin is effectively a “miracle drug” against COVID-19.

    The pharmacist can take Vitamin D3 without a prescription, although vitamin sellers are not legally allowed to mention its value against Covid. People regularly taking it have alower probabilty of adverse outcomes.

    But most likely te pharmacists isn’t relying on anything at all, unless it’s being scared off by the consent form and the pre-election accusations of partisans. Whatever, for those wanting to take it or not, the FDA’s imprimatur is not the deciding factor for anybody as to whether the vaccine is worth taking.

    Sammy Finkelman (7e803d)

  22. And there’s this:

    The Trump administration does not plan to impose Covid-19 screenings for passengers arriving at U.S. airports from the United Kingdom, Reuters reported, citing officials familiar with the matter.

    Dana (cc9481) — 12/29/2020 @ 2:18 pm

    That should make Democrats happy…right?

    Cuomo sure has earned his awards.

    Hoi Polloi (139bf6)

  23. I’m between 65 and 74, with two or three comorbidities, depending on how you count.

    In my state, not only will front-line health workers and all first-reponders get the vaccine — which I have no problem with — but the next stage is 75+ in any health, “essential” employees, prison inmates and guards, “educators” and homeless folks. I am willing to bet that nearly every government employee will actually be covered here.

    Only when they get to phase 2 are those over 65 and/or with 2+ comorbidies given the shot. Because fairness.

    I’m also expecting about 20% of the vaccine will spoil due to mishandling. Some already has in NM.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  24. Question for the group — would you find a legal way to push yourself to the front of the line if you could?

    Would you push past a 75 yo in a wheelchair? Would them seeing you do it matter? My rule of thumb is: If I don’t want anyone to know what I’m doing and/or am planning to lie about it, it’s probably not God’s will.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  25. If somebody went through a few days or a week of having no appetite, and had a sore throat or cough, they probably had Covid.

    Sammy, when you next feel like talking out of your ass, don’t. Just don’t.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  26. Also, in nearly every case it’s olds, front line healthcare, and congregant settings.

    Uh, no, at least not in that order. It’s healthcare workers, emergency personnel, all federal workers including the military, then prisoners and guards before any 90 yeal-old. It’s about 90 million people before the first person under 75, with or without health issues gets the first vaccine.

    Even though most of the deaths are among older people with comorbidities, many of them will not get the vaccine before April or May.

    Most states have adopted CDC guidelines and are prioritizing health-care workers and nursing home residents and staff. Next up are frontline essential workers, including first responders, teachers, day-care staff, grocery store workers and prison guards, and adults 75 and over, the latest CDC federal guidance recommends. Third in line are those with preexisting conditions such as diabetes, heart problems or obesity, and adults between 65 and 74.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/health/covid-vaccine-states-distribution-doses/

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  27. BTW, I am willing to bet serious money that a goodly portion of those addicts in rehab will reject the vaccine because they’re concerned about its side-effects.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  28. Yeah, like the programs for Smallpox, Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis, Polio, Measles, Mumps, Rubella…

    Small Pox? Really? The vaccine goes back over 200 years. Your comparisons are just awful. The polio vaccine roll out was in the 50s. It was a mess.

    What agency would you have running it? The CDC? The FDA? It be a huge blunder. What gives you the faith that would go smoother? I have more faith in my states DPH.

    Mattsky (55d339)

  29. Kevin,

    Not really the question I asked. I don’t see getting the shot before my 91 year old mother. Maybe I see if the things I do qualify as essential.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  30. Sammy i haven’t had so much as a cold since about past December. My weight fluctuates, but that’s due to lifting and eating and drinking habits. I don’t care if I have antibodies or not. My sister, her husband, niece and nephew all had the bug (not at the same time ) and they are all fine. I’ll wait my turn for the vaccine and probably get it eventually months from now. I’d rather those who are actually at risk get the vaccine unlike our selfish politicians.

    NJRob (dd6310)

  31. In case anybody keeps track of Trump promises, the promise of 20 million vaccinations by the end of the year is off by at least 50% and perhaps up to 90%.

    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/12/trump-administration-vaccine-rollout-has-been-a-predictable-fiasco

    Currently Trump is tweeting about the home decorating choices for Mar el Lago. It’s rare to find somebody fight so hard to stay in a job they don’t give a crap about.

    Victor (a225f9)

  32. Victor, I notice you didn’t mention his promise for a vaccine before the end of the year which the media and the left (BIRM) said would take a miracle to happen.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  33. Remember when we were discussing this last week and a commenter here suggested that we could trust state governments and the CDC to prioritize who gets the vaccine in a fair and judicious manner? Trade-offs and all that. Well, this is what happens when you fall for that line of reasoning: Congressional staffers and drug addicts of all ages move to the front of the line while the 65-74 age group cools its heels.

    But I guess the fact that Governor Cuomo now acknowledges that it isn’t all that great of an idea to have nursing homes and other “congregate facilities” full of COVID patients is an improvement over his callousness about the matter this past winter and spring. It must be the wisdom that comes from winning an Emmy.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  34. Small Pox? Really? The vaccine goes back over 200 years. Your comparisons are just awful. The polio vaccine roll out was in the 50s. It was a mess.

    Let’s see, Smallpox vaccinations were rolled out globally between 1958 and 1977 when it was declared eradicated. Montagu’s great great aunt identified a some old women in Turkey that would cast a spell that would make people immune to smallpox. Calf lymph was known as a potential as a thing that was later known as a “vaccine” as early as 1805, since the word itself wasn’t defined until 1798, but it wasn’t until 1898 that it became a product for something that you give as a “vaccine”, it started being rolled out as a policy in the US in the 1940s. If you’re saying that we have to discount any federal vaccination program that existed before there was a federal vaccination, sure. But that is an interesting self licking ice cream cone.

    Now, you may be thinking about inoculation, which is a different thing than vaccination, because one thing isn’t a different thing.

    The polio vaccines, specifically the Sabin vaccine, were the largest successes in public health since plumbing, and it was, ya know, for kid’s. From 1962 to 1985 polio was eradicated in North America, 1979 was the last endemic case in the United States (Canada was 2 years earlier) with national vaccination starting in 1962. In 1991 the last case of polio in all of the Americas was in Peru.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  35. Maybe he can use the eviction moratorium to stay on at the White House until January 31.

    nk (1d9030)

  36. Victor, I notice you didn’t mention his promise for a vaccine before the end of the year which the media and the left (BIRM) said would take a miracle to happen.

    True that. If we’re going to ding Trump for overpromising on the supply of vaccines available by January 1 we should at least also acknowledge the fatuous denunciations that his antagonists made when he suggested it would so much as be ready by the end of 2020.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  37. Maybe he can use the eviction moratorium to stay on at the White House until January 31.

    Genius. nk is leagues better than any of the moronic lawyers Trump has at his employ in the White House.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  38. It was not a “promise”, it was more close to “It’s a Democratic hoax to bring down Wall Street and ruin my reelection” which he also said. He spouted a lot of sh!t, you know out of where, and took credit for the things that worked out and blamed others for the ones that did not, or in other words, Trump was Trump.

    nk (1d9030)

  39. Victor, I notice you didn’t mention his promise for a vaccine before the end of the year which the media and the left (BIRM) said would take a miracle to happen.

    Cool story bro. He also promised that it was going be out “in two weeks” in September, he also promised 300M doses in 2020, in May.

    It is incredible that Pfizer (not involved in operation fictional velocity) and Moderna (was) got it done so fast, it is a miracle. It’s the fastest vaccine that has every been developed, by 4 years.

    So, should we credit Trump for his promise, in two weeks, because it was going to be two weeks from some time? Should we credit him for promising 300M and getting less than a 10th? Yes, no, no, yes, yes, yes? So does he get credit but not responsibility…pick a lane bro?

    Imagine promising stuff and then doing things that make it likely to happen, it may be hard. Now, imagine promising stuff today, then promising a different result on the same thing tomorrow, then doing it again every day…for 6 months. Then complaining that you aren’t getting credit for the promise version 37 out of 176.

    I forget, what are we supposed to be giving him credit for again?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  40. While Operation Warp Speed was successful in producing multiple vaccine candidates, it way overpromised on the rollout. As of today about 10% have been vaccinated (2M) versus the promised 20M by the end of December.

    Earlier this month, federal officials had said their goal was for 20 million people to get their first shots of a vaccine by the end of the year. As of Monday morning, 11.4 million doses of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines had been sent out across the country, but just 2.1 million people in the United States had received their first dose, according to a dashboard maintained by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which most likely reflects a reporting lag of several days.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  41. It is up to the States to distribute the vaccines once brought to the designated areas by the Federal Government. We have not only developed the vaccines, including putting up money to move the process along quickly, but gotten them to the states. Biden failed with Swine Flu!

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 29, 2020

    To be fair, as regards

    While Operation Warp Speed was successful in producing multiple vaccine candidates, it way overpromised on the rollout. As of today about 10% have been vaccinated (2M) versus the promised 20M by the end of December.

    They promised 20M vaccinated (requiring 40M doses) in November, Azar then promised 40M doses at the beginning of the month, on the 19th they had a news conference where they clarified that what they meant was allocating 20M doses by Jan. 1.

    You see if you have a problem, call it A, and promise that the solution will X, but then change it to Y, then Z, then B, then Aa, then Ba, people might not remember X and Ba were the promise to the same problem, A.

    Picking the nugget of gold, out of the post-digested pile of corn is tedious, and gross, work.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  42. BTW, we should all wish for the failure of the H1N1 pandemic that Trump keeps bringing up about Biden.

    I’ll take 12,500 in one year vs 350,000 in 10 months. But sure, failure means different things to different people.

    But one thing isn’t another thing, if Trump wasn’t a moron he’d know that. He’d also know that equating 2 things that make you look bad when you don’t have too is dumb.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  43. JVW’s link refutes all of the claims by the usual suspects on here. Carry on.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  44. It is incredible that Pfizer (not involved in operation fictional velocity) and Moderna (was) got it done so fast, it is a miracle. It’s the fastest vaccine that has every been developed, by 4 years.

    It’s not at all a miracle. When the Human Genome Project was completed in 2003 it was a major breakthrough in how we would be able to address health crises. China had decoded the genome for the COVID-19 virus by mid-January; Moderna had a trial vaccine prepared by February 7; a small group of human subjects tested it in March; and by July the larger-scale trials were underway. I think those people who insisted that we wouldn’t have a vaccine until second or third quarter in 2021 were those who are used to and have come to accept the bureaucratic sclerosis of the FDA and other regulatory bodies that I mentioned in a post from last week.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  45. I’m not clear what credit to give Trump personally for the quick development of vaccines, but closer analysts of Operation Warp Speed can tell me where his genius helped.

    As best I can tell his supporters are giving him credit for accurately predicting something unlikely to happen in which all the work was done by others.

    I do think that the question of actually getting vaccines into the hands of people is a question of logistics and governmental operation in which I would expect the Leader of the Executive Branch would have more involvement, and perhaps should be more careful about his promises. Or, you know, even show he gives a damn.

    Victor (a225f9)

  46. I’m not clear what credit to give Trump personally for the quick development of vaccines, but closer analysts of Operation Warp Speed can tell me where his genius helped.

    I have no idea either, Victor. But I am willing to consider the idea that the magnitude of the crisis along with the Trump Administration’s general orientation towards deregulation helped spur the various government regulatory agencies to keep the train moving along the tracks in a way that they might not have been willing to do in an Obama or a Biden Administration. But hopefully we will never have to find out.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  47. Hmm, 300M in May? Naw, nobody could find that, hard.

    Could we possible find him saying in two weeks, more than 3 weeks ago, or 3 months? Never!!

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  48. So, it would require an honest to god literal miracle to hit 1 year from today, to complete Phase 2. If you’re going to bet, bet on 2023-2025 to finish a Phase 3. Hopefully, one of them actually works. So for those junior high schoolers, if we’re great, we’ll have a vaccine for you before you graduate, from high school hopefully, medical school likely.

    But Trump’s plan is based on nothing other than hope, desperation, and bluster. No reputable scientist will even commit to 18 months.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 5/15/2020 @ 4:57 pm

    beer ‘n pretzels (478ca6)

  49. Maybe there was a press conference once, and there was a transcript, from March 2nd, you know last week, were someone somewhere that may be the president maybe saying some words in an order that when read, watched, or heard, would mean one thing, then time happens and the things that the words were understood to mean, actually mean a different thing, because that guy cannot tell a lie.

    So, contrary to all of the lies, the vaccine that they’re — they politicalize. They’ll say anything. And it’s so dangerous for our country, what they say. But the vaccine will be very safe and very effective, and it will be delivered very soon. You could — you could have a very big surprise coming up. I’m sure you’ll be very happy. But the people will be happy. The people of the world will be happy.

    But he definitely didn’t say that it was going to be soon, this year, next month year last week day hour time before the after. Definitely didn’t say this year, but it will be this year, last month, next month in three years from 2 years ago, but a year after the before that.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  50. Well done B&P. Thank you for calling out the obvious.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  51. Colonel Kink (Ret), I’m not sure what point you are trying to make but there is no inconsistency in believing that President Trump absolutely spoke out of his own bunghole all throughout the spring, summer, and fall, and now into the winter, but also believing that the people who insisted that it was a pipe-dream that a vaccine would be available anytime before summer 2021 were either blinkered by their hatred of Trump or else were tragically ill-informed. Yet somehow those people were the “experts” who news organizations seemed to lean on throughout the past nine months, and will probably continue to be cited even after they were so wrong this time around. (See the alleged titans of election polling for an example as to how that works.)

    JVW (ee64e4)

  52. You don’t need to be blinkered by hatred to believe the opposite of anything Trump says. Especially the pandemic. He was not a leader, he was and still is a gaslighting obstructionist, and any good less bad thing that may have happened is despite of him and not because of him.

    nk (1d9030)

  53. The nursing home in Kirkland, WA that had the first outbreak in the US will now be the first nursing home in the state to get the vaccine. I like the symmetry.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  54. Whoa…

    https://news.yahoo.com/louisiana-congressman-elect-dies-covid-025154687.html

    …and now a bum’s rush for the jabs at Longworth House Building begins.

    urbanleftbehind (0cf7c0)

  55. So, it would require an honest to god literal miracle to hit 1 year from today, to complete Phase 2. If you’re going to bet, bet on 2023-2025 to finish a Phase 3. Hopefully, one of them actually works. So for those junior high schoolers, if we’re great, we’ll have a vaccine for you before you graduate, from high school hopefully, medical school likely.

    But Trump’s plan is based on nothing other than hope, desperation, and bluster. No reputable scientist will even commit to 18 months.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 5/15/2020 @ 4:57 pm

    beer ‘n pretzels (478ca6) — 12/29/2020 @ 7:23 pm

    A miracle in development happened, thank the lord. I’ll take it.

    and…

    But Trump’s plan is based on nothing other than hope, desperation, and bluster. No reputable scientist will even commit to 18 months.

    how is this wrong? Hope,desperation, and bluster. And one guy is the president.

    Colonel Kink (Ret), I’m not sure what point you are trying to make but there is no inconsistency in believing that President Trump absolutely spoke out of his own bunghole all throughout the spring, summer, and fall, and now into the winter, but also believing that the people who insisted that it was a pipe-dream that a vaccine would be available anytime before summer 2021 were either blinkered by their hatred of Trump or else were tragically ill-informed. Yet somehow those people were the “experts” who news organizations seemed to lean on throughout the past nine months, and will probably continue to be cited even after they were so wrong this time around. (See the alleged titans of election polling for an example as to how that works.)

    It’s better to plan on the sun rising tomorrow, like it has every day for a while now, than predicting it will not. Miracles are not a plan

    Axioms exist for a reason.

    Proper planning prevents piss poor performance.

    Again, the President of the United States claims, over and over and over again. But, he was almost right almost once kinda, but all of those other people pointed to history and said history says 4 years, and are much less likely to be lying 99.7% of the time, should definitely not be ever listened to again.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  56. You don’t need to be blinkered by hatred to believe the opposite of anything Trump says.

    Right. But that’s only up until your desire for Trump to be wrong leads you to ignore all data to the contrary. For instance, if Trump says “it’s going to rain tomorrow; I guarantee it,” you might be inclined to not believe him. However, you shouldn’t be dumb enough to say something like “there’s almost no chance of it raining tomorrow” when all available meteorological data suggests that there is a thirty percent chance of it raining. If you do that, then I think you are indeed either blinkered by hatred or else you’re too lazy to actually check the data yourself. Either way, you probably ought to retire from the prognostication game (or else get yourself elected by gullible voters).

    JVW (ee64e4)

  57. Miracles are not a plan.

    And again, this wasn’t a “miracle.” Based upon what was known at the time (the COVID genome sequence was known; Moderna was testing a vaccine as early as March) I think an alleged “expert” ought to have been more open to the possibility that it would indeed be ready by year’s end. The fact that they instead claimed it would take “a miracle” is why so many of us no longer believe the tripe we hear coming from the media’s favorite “experts.” And this issue exists separately from the fact that President Trump grossly overpromised the availability of the vaccine in terms of quantities by year end: you can’t claim that Trump saying there would be 20 million doses of the vaccine somehow means that the experts who said zero doses would be available were actually correct in the long run.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  58. One of the “comorbities” that the CDC uses is smoker/former smoker. So, if you’re a smoker with COPD, at whatever age, you move up in line. If you are also obese, that’s even better.

    Of course, you’re still an obese smoker with COPD…

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  59. Phase 1: Idea
    Phase 2: Party
    Phase 3: Magic
    Phase 4: PROFIT!!

    Illustration 1
    Illustration 2
    https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/248/profit.jpg

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  60. And again, this wasn’t a “miracle.” Based upon what was known at the time

    This is literally the first mRNA vaccine in history…of ever.

    The mRNA vaccine platform technology [which the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine uses] has been in development for over two decades.”

    —Dr Zoltán Kis, Imperial College London

    mRNA vaccines had a history of success of none as of 2 months ago. None in 20 years.

    The average vaccine takes a decade to be developed, HIV is currently on 40 years.

    Yada yada yada, plan on a history of none or actual history, blah blah blahsee etc
    Miracle happened this time, so for all time now, we should plan on 1 year for Coronabola 2.0 that is only 5% fatal, only 5x more than Covid, which is only 10x more than the flu, which is only a bit more than zero, so if you round down it’s fine.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  61. I still don’t really understand why scientists and pundits, correctly, stating last spring that it would be very unusual for a vaccine to be developed so quickly, and Trump, typically promising the moon and the stars in the hope that it would get him reelected excuses his current incompetence at actually getting vaccines into the arms of the people who need them.

    The mistakes about whether a vaccine were or were not going to be developed were ones of prognostication. I’ve no shame at all in disbelieving nearly everything Trump says when it’s to his own benefit.

    But none of that really counts to his competence as a president. Our current issue is not a scientific question of how fast a vaccine can be developed. It’s how fast it can be produced and distributed. And again that is a question of effective bureaucracy. And Trump is clearly completely uninterested in effective government.

    It’s bizarre to me that people would spend this much time on point scoring about who got a prediction right or wrong. Showing that some media people hate Trump may make you feel better about voting for him, but it doesn’t say one damn thing about his competence as president

    Victor (a225f9)

  62. It’s bizarre to me that people would spend this much time on point scoring about who got a prediction right or wrong. Showing that some media people hate Trump may make you feel better about voting for him, but it doesn’t say one damn thing about his competence as president.

    That’s a swell fulmination, Victor, but I didn’t vote for the guy nor have I suggested that he has handled this whole pandemic competently. Please don’t try to ascribe to me arguments that I am not making. I merely am pointing out that we had “experts” telling us that a vaccine which was developed and released eleven months after we first became aware of the virus wouldn’t in fact be available for anywhere between fifteen to twenty months. In other words, they overestimated the time by anywhere between 36% and 81%, despite the fact that as “experts” they would conceivably have a pretty good idea of our capacity for development and testing. So if they have to eat a little bit of crow, I think that’s a healthy thing to maybe keep their egos in check and somewhat grounded.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  63. Experts predict that playing the lotto is only going to cost you money.

    Someone wins the lotto.

    Two things are true, which do you bet your life on?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  64. CNN: UK regulator approves Oxford/AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine.
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/30/uk/uk-oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-intl-hnk/index.html

    Thank the Lord a vaccine that works pretty well, maybe up to 90%,uses standard manufacturing processes, and doesn’t require a cold chain.

    This one might put us on a path to mass vaccination by late spring. I’ll give all the kudo’s he wants if he finalizes a deal for licensed indirect manufacturing. There’s a facility in Morgantown that could churn 100M a month, another in Jersey, one outside Philadelphia, with the other two, 750M doses before the world series is possible, still an edge case, but possible. Then we can sell it to those s-hole countries, I’ll be happy to let Trump take all the profit.

    You heard it hear first, R… Klink is on board for giving Trump a huge pile cash.

    (Don’t worry, we’ll get it all back when he’s actually audited)

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  65. I’m not clear what credit to give Trump personally for the quick development of vaccines, but closer analysts of Operation Warp Speed can tell me where his genius helped.

    Don’t you remember the photos of Trump at his lab bench with his array of test tubes, scales, centrifuges, reagents, Bunsen burners, and beakers?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  66. 28. Mattsky (55d339) — 12/29/2020 @ 4:07 pm

    Small Pox? Really? The vaccine goes back over 200 years. Your comparisons are just awful. The polio vaccine roll out was in the 50s. It was a mess.

    My family doctor waited two years before administerin the polio vaccine I think, and that was the general principle he went by.

    The first polio vaccines produced weren;t manufactured with enough quality, and ave children polio.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764

    That can;t happen with the Covid vaccine since it is not killed or weakened virus, althouh some other vaccines do use live virus.

    In April 1955 more than 200 000 children in five Western and mid-Western USA states received a polio vaccine in which the process of inactivating the live virus proved to be defective. Within days there were reports of paralysis and within a month the first mass vaccination programme against polio had to be abandoned. Subsequent investigations revealed that the vaccine, manufactured by the California-based family firm of Cutter Laboratories, had caused 40 000 cases of polio, leaving 200 children with varying degrees of paralysis and killing 10.

    Note the low percentage of deaths or even paralysis. This is much lower than Covid, but it was not something to ignore.

    Three larger companies produced safe polio vaccines according to Salk’s protocol for inactivating the virus with formaldehyde. The lack of experience and expertise at Cutter Laboratories, undetected by the inspectors, caused the disaster….As Offit observes, `ironically, the Cutter incident—by creating the perception among scientists and the public that Salk’s vaccine was dangerous —led in part to the development of a polio vaccine that was more dangerous’..[and is why polio is not wiped out in a country until you stop vaccinations] …the court ruling that Cutter was liable to pay compensation to those damaged by its polio vaccine—even though it was not found to be negligent in its production—opened the floodgates to a wave of litigation. As a result, `vaccines were among the first medical products almost eliminated by lawsuits’. Indeed, the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program was introduced in 1986 to protect vaccine manufacturers from litigation on a scale that threatened the continuing production of vaccines.

    So there we are.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  67. 25. 30. There are two things that are almost characteristic of Covid: Fatigue (which you also get can get from the vaccines, although only for a day or so) and low or no appetite. There aren’t other common diseases that cause that. (from general reading)

    It’s probably cause by the strong immune fight the body puts up, which in turn would be caused by a strong infection.

    This is more official:

    https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/covid-clusters

    You could also add fever and throat symptoms. They also have loss of smell. And headache. When (more than mild?) fatigue kicks in, it’s more severe.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  68. RIP Dawn Wells, Mary Ann from Gilligan’s Island. Covid.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  69. 55. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 12/29/2020 @ 8:18 pm

    The nursing home in Kirkland, WA that had the first outbreak in the US will now be the first nursing home in the state to get the vaccine. I like the symmetry.

    Closing the barn door almost a year after the horse has bolted.

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  70. Long New Yorker story on the history of the pandemic response in the United States with focus on the beginning.

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/01/04/the-plague-year

    This cannot stand by itself but it contains new information, so is best paired with other reading or with your memory. There have been a number of other stories in the New Yorker this year.

    It is also missing much old information, and has allusions, without explanation, to some things, like “wet market” (which by the way the market in Wuhan wasn’t – it was a seafood) and monoclonal antibodies. The reference to monoclonal antibodies doesn’t even get right which ones Trump got, saying only:

    Hospitals are often portals to the graveyard, and that has been especially true during the pandemic. But Trump, who received a series of cutting-edge therapies, including monoclonal antibodies, was ready to return to the White House after three days…In another major development, Eli Lilly recently received an Emergency Use Authorization for a monoclonal antibody that is also based on the spike protein that Graham and McLellan designed. It is similar to the treatment that President Trump received when he contracted covid.

    Regeneron received approval about a week or two after that – it could be the story was considered complete by then.

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  71. 60% of nursing home staff in Ohio are refusing to get vaccinated, according to the state governor

    Ohio Governor Mike DeWine on Wednesday expressed concern that too few frontline healthcare staff were getting vaccinated against COVID-19, and said that 60% of nursing home staff chose not to get the shot.

    “We aren’t going to make them, but we wish they had a higher compliance, DeWine said at a press conference Wednesday, according to The Columbus Dispatch….

    Peter van Runkle, executive director at the Ohio Health Care Association, told Business Insider that social media misinformation was among the factors leading to care home staff avoiding the vaccine.

    He said people feared the vaccine was “too new and was rushed through the process. The government is trying to do something to me – implant a microchip or do something else harmful. It will sterilize me. It will give me COVID-19. All manner of things from social media.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  72. It seems to me that a nursing home might be negligent if it employed unvaccinated workers who transmitted the disease to a patient.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  73. 74. In the future maybe. Meanwhile, in New York State, they’re going ahead wth perhaps impractical and not useful stronng regualations.

    They are being required to have 60 days of PPE (at the burn rate of April) on hand and given fines for missing death reporting deadlines by even one minute.

    Ans back montshs ago it required extra publicity from a New Yorker writer to have the order to have ahealth care aide whom her mother needed for her ALS, allowed back in.

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/09/14/how-my-mother-and-i-became-chinese-propaganda

    Rather than answer my question, the woman said that all companions of patients would have to leave by 4 p.m. that day. I explained my mother’s condition and her dependence on her aides; I asked if an exception could be made. No, not possible. “Even if she is not safe without a companion?” I asked. That would be for the doctor to decide. I tried one more tack: could I withdraw her from the hospital? She hesitated. Technically, yes, she said, but, given how much equipment my mother needed, it was unlikely that I’d be able to get her out of Carter in less than two weeks.

    So much for Plan B. And I had another realization: losing the aide might be no less disastrous for my mother than contracting the virus. She has survived nearly a decade since her diagnosis—the average is three to five years—and the care that the aides provide, turning and suctioning her, is almost certainly integral to this longevity….That night, I received a text from an unknown number. It was not Mitchell Katz but Yuh-Line Niou, a New York state assemblywoman whose district includes Manhattan’s Chinatown. She had seen the photos on Twitter and wanted to know what she could do to help. Then I heard from Brian Benjamin, a state senator whose district includes Harlem, and from a prominent Twitter personality who knew Mitchell Katz and offered to text him for me. Early the next morning, I got a call from Patient Relations. The woman’s voice was newly tentative, and she asked if I would be available for a Zoom conference. Weinstein, the medical director, and the head of P.R. informed me that my mother’s aide would be allowed back after all. There was no real explanation, but my impromptu Twitter campaign had borne fruit. And, I had to admit, so did my association with this magazine. Was this how power worked?

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  74. Moderna is vaccinating all of its employees while Pfizer is only vaccinating those who are otherwise eligible.

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  75. There is more vaccine manufactured than has been sent to the states and more sent to the states than has been sent to be used.

    The problem is trying to do this in priority order. It’s easy enough to figure out who doesn’t qualify but much harder to find the people who do. The only reason anything got done in the beginning is that the two categories were of easy to find people: Health care workers and residents of congregate living facilities.

    And the health care workers were largely in big places or had to make arrangements to travel to a bigger facility, while they waited for signatures when it came to the residents of congregate living facilities, some of whom could not consent for themselves.

    Sammy Finkelman (b78e49)

  76. If I’m TPTB in the Badger/Dairy State, I’d drop all charges against the kid whose initials are K.R. contingent on Mr. R emptying a whole clip into this dufus:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wisconsin-hospital-employee-fired-after-intentionally-destroying-500-doses-covid-n1252605

    urbanleftbehind (d30c30)

  77. From world-renown virologist, Dr. Trump:

    Mr. Trump yelled at Jared Kushner, his son-in-law and senior adviser, during a gathering of top aides in the Oval Office on Aug. 19. “I want to do what Mexico does. They don’t give you a test till you get to the emergency room and you’re vomiting.”

    Dana (cc9481)

  78. You gotta hand it to Trump though. If you make America bad enough, illegal immigration won’t happen.

    Dustin (4237e0)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.2585 secs.