Patterico's Pontifications

12/19/2020

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:36 am



[guest post by Dana]

Here are a few news items to discuss. Please feel free to share anything you might interest readers. Make sure to include links.

First news item

To Russia, with love:

At least someone takes it seriously:

Second news item

L-e-a-d-e-r-s-h-i-p:

Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro criticized the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine in a bizarre rant, On Thursday.

He suggested that the COVID-19 vaccine could result in people turning into crocodiles, women growing beards, and men speaking with effeminate voices, according to AFP.

Bolsonaro said: “In the Pfizer contract, it’s very clear. ‘We’re not responsible for any side effects.’ If you turn into a crocodile, that’s your problem.”

He continued: “If you become superhuman, if a woman starts to grow a beard or if a man starts to speak with an effeminate voice, they [Pfizer] won’t have anything to do with it,” he said.

Third news item

Sorry old folks, you might have the highest rates of Covid-19, but we need to level the playing field:

Historically, the committee relied on scientific evidence to inform its decisions. But now the members are weighing social justice concerns as well, noted Lisa Prosser, a professor of health policy and decision sciences at the University of Michigan.

Harald Schmidt, an expert in ethics and health policy at the University of Pennsylvania, said that it is reasonable to put essential workers ahead of older adults, given their risks, and that they are disproportionately minorities. “Older populations are whiter,” Dr. Schmidt said. “Society is structured in a way that enables them to live longer. Instead of giving additional health benefits to those who already had more of them, we can start to level the playing field a bit.”

Fourth news item

As the First Lady says, Arizona, “be best,” not this:

Fifth news item

Oh, yes they can:

A key federal agency said this week that employers can legally require their workers to get the COVID-19 vaccine and prevent them from entering their workplaces if they refuse.

The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) in guidance issued Wednesday said that requiring a test would not violate the Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990. The law bars employers from requiring medical exams such as blood tests that seek information on an employee’s physical or mental condition, but the EEOC said a COVID-19 vaccine does not fall under that category.

“If a vaccine is administered to an employee by an employer for protection against contracting COVID-19, the employer is not seeking information about an individual’s impairments or current health status and, therefore, it is not a medical examination,” the commission said.

Sixth news item

Here we go:

GOP Sen. Ron Johnson (Wis.) on Friday blocked an effort to pass a second round of stimulus checks, arguing coronavirus relief needs to be targeted and raising concerns about the country’s debt.

Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.) tried to get consent, which requires the cooperation of every senator, to pass his bill that would provide $1,200 for individuals who make up to $75,000 — the exact same language that Congress passed as part of the CARES Act in March.

“What I’m proposing is what every senator has supported already, this year. … What I’m proposing will give working folks in my state and across this country a shot … at getting back up on their feet,” Hawley said from the Senate floor.

But Johnson objected. Under the Senate’s rules any one senator can request to pass a bill but any other senator can object and block it.

“I completely support some kind of program targeted for small businesses. … So what I fear we’re going to do with this bipartisan package and what the senator from Missouri is talking about is the same thing, is a shotgun approach,” Johnson said.

Seventh news item

Governors just wanna have fun:

Rhode Island Governor Gina Raimondo was photographed last week attending a wine and paint event, just a few days after she urged the state’s residents to avoid all nonessential activities amid the ongoing novel coronavirus pandemic.

According to WLNE-TV, the photo of Raimondo was taken by Erica Oliveras on December 11 while the governor and her husband, Andy Moffit, attended a wine and paint event at Barnaby’s Public House in Providence.

Eighth news item

Happy anniversary, now do the damn job you were elected to do:

“The event that is more significant by a landslide is what happened on December 19th of 1959. December 19, 1959, my wife Kay and I got married, and that makes tomorrow our 61st wedding anniversary. Just look at all of the beauty that has followed us: 20 kids and grandkids, all of that in a 61-year period of time. What I want to say is, the beautiful life that we are still having together. And Kay, I love you more now than I did 61 years ago. And I would say to the Senate leadership that, uh, you better get this last vote done by tonight, or you’ll have to do it without me, because I’m going to be with Kay on our, uh, anniversary on Saturday and 61st wedding anniversary. And to everyone else out there: As you celebrate the birth of Christ at Christmas time, I’m going to say to you, Merry Christmas and God bless you. And I yield the floor.”

This really galls me. How many military men and women have missed celebrating their anniversaries because they were on deployment? How many medical personnel have missed their anniversaries because they have been working around the clock to save Covid-19 patients? You are not special. You are privileged to be a member of Congress, so do the job you were hired to do. Americans are dependent on you. If you can’t do the job or refuse to do it, then step down.

Have a good weekend.

–Dana

221 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Good morning!

    Dana (cc9481)

  2. What is it with Trump and his refusal to see Russia clearly as they are? I’m beginning to think that, at its root, this is just about Trump’s man crush on strongman Putin…

    Dana (cc9481)

  3. Well partly it’s a man crush. Partly because he feels wounded and offended that people have been pointing out for several years that he has a man crush on Putin and is doubling down to show that you’re not the Boss of Him, and your criticism all those years was Fake News. It’s like a toddler smearing even more apple sauce on his face.

    Victor (a225f9)

  4. @2: Hoo boy Mr. Putin — Biden will take office in a month and man is he peed off about this. Watch out. No more free passes from the WH. There’s a new sheriff in town. No more letting you treat Ukraine and Georgia as your personal urinal, like Bush, Obama and his VP Trump. No siree. A cold wind is blowing. Be very afraid.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  5. The idea that Russia’s been building back doors into our systems since the onset of the pandemic is amazing.

    Wasn’t it weird that Trump started replacing DOE, DOD, cybersecurity leaders after he lost the election? It really seemed weird, but now a lot of the people who could understand what’s happened are replaced by people who would retweet lin wood.

    “Older populations are whiter,” Dr. Schmidt said. “Society is structured in a way that enables them to live longer. Instead of giving additional health benefits to those who already had more of them, we can start to level the playing field a bit.”

    Disgusting racism. How is this even lawful?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  6. military men and women have missed celebrating their anniversaries because they were on deployment

    Even in peacetime :/ Members of the military are away on temporary duty (TDY) fairly often. Navy guys are out in ship 6 months at a time. Anybody on training. In the AF if you are on Alert on base (this was roughly every other week when I was a kid and my dad was still in the airplane) or flying. We used to write letters to Santa about having Christmas early or late because daddy was not going to be home and we wanted to have Christmas when he was. Birthday celebrations also have always been flexible.

    Nic (896fdf)

  7. @4 Putin does, in fact, seem quite unhappy about Biden having been elected.

    Nic (896fdf)

  8. 7,

    Of course he is. One less fanboy.

    Dana (cc9481)

  9. The White House’s lack of response to this cascading cyber threat and uncertain risk….is simply extraordinary. Trump’s first thouht isn’t to calmly explain what is being done to limit the threat and what the international response should be…..but to shift blame and cover for Russia. What will it take for the Trump Apologists to say good riddance and that we need someone different….even someone mediocre like Biden….coordinating our national security policy and response. How about sober up and give us some seriousness? Enough with the winging it…

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  10. Dustin,

    Pretzel logic and sleight of hand trying to prove it isn’t racist.

    Dana (cc9481)

  11. The President’s response to Russia is yet one more reminder that nothing matters to him unless it reinforces that he was cheated out of the presidency and that he is the victim here. Nothing else matters. He continues to care only about himself. He is no different than he has ever been.

    Dana (cc9481)

  12. Disgusting racism. How is this even lawful?

    It’s just some egghead shooting his mouth off, I think, Dustin. From the linked article:

    Harald Schmidt, an expert in ethics and health policy at the University of Pennsylvania, said that it is reasonable to put essential workers ahead of older adults, given their risks and that they are disproportionately minorities. “Older populations are whiter, ” Schmidt said. “Society is structured in a way that enables them to live longer. Instead of giving additional health benefits to those who already had more of them, we can start to level the playing field a bit.”

    nk (1d9030)

  13. @2: Hoo boy Mr. Putin — Biden will take office in a month and man is he peed off about this. Watch out. No more free passes from the WH. There’s a new sheriff in town. No more letting you treat Ukraine and Georgia as your personal urinal, like Bush, Obama and his VP Trump. No siree. A cold wind is blowing. Be very afraid.

    (You must mean “his VP Biden”…)

    Pretty sure, no matter how Biden reacts to Russia interference, it won’t be to fanboy all over Putin.

    Dana (cc9481)

  14. Of course he is. One less fanboy.

    LOL. Looks like Putin’s loss is Xi’s gain.

    What actions do you expect from Biden on Russia? A red line? Or, as with the past four years, are we only concerned with words instead of actual policy?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  15. Sorry, here’s the right passage:

    An independent committee of medical experts that advises the CDC on immunization practices will soon vote on whom to recommend for the second phase of vaccination — “Phase 1b.” In a meeting last month, all voting members of the committee indicated support for putting essential workers ahead of people 65 and older and those with high-risk health conditions.

    Nothing obligates the CDC to take them seriously, and the CDC is accountable to the Executive, Congress, and lawyers for what it ultimately decides.

    nk (1d9030)

  16. It’s just some egghead shooting his mouth off, I think, Dustin. From the linked article:

    Frankly, the idea that front line nurses need the vaccine is very appealing because they come into contact with lots more people, and frankly we need to incentivize and reward that work these days.

    I bet you’re right and Schmidt’s colleagues aren’t pleased with his woke warrior power trip. But it sure isn’t helping the country for lefties to make things a race war, when the righties think that justifies all sorts of stupidity.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  17. Trump relies on Russian money and (more recently) MAGA donations. Trump’s ego feeds off money, sex and fame and those are the only two groups who will reliably feed his ego.

    DRJ (aede82)

  18. I plan on putting essential workers and people 65 and older and those with high-risk health conditions ahead of one person. Myself. I will not be looking to get the vaccine until there’s enough for everybody, and just keep on keeping my precautions.

    Which, BTW, include not eating from restaurants, not even takeout.

    nk (1d9030)

  19. One of the great lessons of Christmas is the lasting grace that is bestowed through humility.

    It would be good if Sen. Imhofe took the time to reflect that there is probably a person who is attached to a ventilator at this time and who will die before his or her anniversary during the holiday season and that there, but for the grace of God, go we all.

    John B Boddie (d795fd)

  20. The elderly are more likely to be immunocompromised and thus at risk for adverse side effects from immunizations. I would rather see the government test this vaccine on the younger, healthier first responders. Even some of them are having complications that might be very difficult for the elderly in nursing homes.

    DRJ (aede82)

  21. Maybe Putin just thinks a reheated Obama 3.0 led by a dottering fool of a figurehead is bad for the globe. Dementia patients tend to make rash decisions

    steveg (43b7a5)

  22. I had a lot of plans for our 25th wedding anniversary this year, but none of them were possible given the pandemic. Senator Inhofe can GFH.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  23. @7. Putin does, in fact, seem quite unhappy about Biden having been elected

    When you trade-out Charlie McCarthy for Mortimer Snerd, advantage, Xi; Russia and China have been ‘adversaries’ for decades.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  24. @23. The conservative’s conservative, ain’t he. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  25. Clay Travis
    @ClayTravis
    ·
    The SEC will finish its season playing 69 of its 71 scheduled games with fans present & zero serious covid health issues. The coronabros all told you this was impossible. Fantastic accomplishment, maybe the most impressive accomplishment in league history. Well done
    ·
    The Big 12 and ACC — and their commissioners, players & coaches — also deserve tremendous praise. Phenomenal accomplishments by all three conferences. They saved college football when the coronabros in sports media were working as hard as possible to cancel the season.

    _

    harkin (8fadc8)

  26. Russia and China have been ‘adversaries’ for decades.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/19/2020 @ 11:14 am

    Yeah let’s just say different presidents have had different levels of success handling that.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  27. Remember Trump’s dream of Trump Tower Moscow? Gotta keep your eye on the prize.

    Dana (cc9481)

  28. @27. Rest easy; Hunter Biden is the smartest man Mortimer knows. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  29. Restrictions on our constitutional rights are in force as those cases work their way through the courts. Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn v Cuomo ended some of the unconstitutional restrictions against churches, but not until Ruth Bader Ginsburg went to her eternal reward and she was replaced by Amy Coney Barrett . . . and that means that, even though the Court has now remanded a few cases back to the district courts with the instructions to follow Catholic Diocese, the freedom of worship had been unconstitutionally restricted for half a year.

    The Court sat on Danville Christian Academy v Beshear for three weeks, and then decided, well, the Reichsstatthalter’s orders were essentially expired anyway, so they didn’t need to do anything. The Justices said that, since the executive order closing the private religious schools expired January 4th, when Christmas break was over, they could simply dismiss the request for a stay.

    The Governor’s school-closing Order effectively expires this week or shortly thereafter, and there is no indication that it will be renewed.

    Yet there most certainly was an indication that the order would be renewed, as the Reichsstatthalter had already ‘recommended’ that schools stay closed an additional week, until January 11th.

    The Court dismissed the request “without prejudice,” meaning that the private religious schools could file their claim again:

    Under all of the circumstances, especially the timing and the impending expiration of the Order, we deny the application without prejudice to the applicants or other parties seeking a new preliminary injunction if the Governor issues a school-closing order that applies in the new year.

    The Reich Governor may be venal, arrogant and a wannabe fascist, but he isn’t stupid. If he wants to reimpose his executive order, he’ll wait until January 2nd, so that the religious schools will have less time to apply for an injunction. Since the prevailing precedent is that of the Sixth Circuit, the trial judge will have to deny the asked for injunction. Then it will have to be appealed to the Sixth Circuit, where it will again be denied. Then it will have to be appealed to Justice Kavanaugh, supervising Justice over the Sixth Circuit, and referred to the Supreme Court. That all takes time, and money, and the constitutional rights of Kentuckians will still be denied for however long that process takes.

    The General Assembly session begins on January 5th, and several bills have already been prefiled to restrict the Reich Governor’s emergency powers to between 15 and 30 days, after which he would have to get the approval of the General Assembly, even if that meant calling a special session of the legislature. The GOP is trying to consolidate the measure to one, and it could actually pass the House on the first week of the session, the state Senate the second week. The Reich Governor would have ten days to veto it, or it would become law. Since the GOP have veto-proof majorities in both chambers, they could easily override it, but that might still drag on until February.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  30. The SEC will finish its season playing 69 of its 71 scheduled games with fans present & zero serious covid health issues.

    I thought all those politicians crying about football were being ridiculous. Chubby pretzel armed men crying that they need football. I’ve been to at least 100 Longhorn games in person and love college football but give me a break. It’s a hit to the economy but so is being unserious in a crisis. If Clay Travis is right that COVID wasn’t a real threat, then I guess the SEC did not really accomplish anything by avoiding serious problems. Contrary, if the SEC really did have an amazing accomplishment during a pandemic, then I guess COVID was serious after all, and staying productive and safe took a lot of serious work.

    You guys can’t have it both ways. I mean you kinda can on twitter since that’s where idiots are, but in reality, you can’t have it both ways.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  31. Russian Media Mourn as Putin Acknowledges Biden’s Win—But Say Trump ‘Burned’ U.S. on His Way Out
    ……..
    Russian state TV hosts, pundits and lawmakers were also quick to point out the unusually dry language of Putin’s greetings, noting that—unlike his prior telegrams to Trump and Obama—Putin didn’t express any hope that U.S.-Russia relations might improve in the near future. “There are no hopes expressed in Putin’s letter to Biden, none whatsoever,” noted Olga Skabeeva, the co-host of Russia’s state TV program 60 Minutes. She added: “We’re disappointed in Americans.”

    Describing American president as “our candidate Trump,” “our friend Donald,” “our Grandpa” and “poor, poor Trump,” Kremlin-controlled state TV shows conceded that Trump’s days in the Oval Office are numbered. While the doom and gloom in Russian state media inevitably surrounded most discussions acknowledging Trump’s electoral defeat, pundits and experts celebrated the bright side of their favored candidate’s four-year reign. “Mission accomplished,” rejoiced Karen Shakhnazarov, CEO of Mosfilm Studio and an ever-present pundit on Russian state TV news talk shows. Appearing on state TV program The Evening with Vladimir Soloviev, Shakhnazarov opined that Trump’s mission was to destroy the political system of the United States, and he successfully did exactly that.
    ……….
    Political expert Alexei Martynov, director of the International Institute of the Newly Established States, surmised during the broadcast of 60 Minutes: “They burned the reputation of U.S. institutions during these elections.” Political commentator Sergey Strokan concurred: “He [Trump] is discrediting the American electoral system.” Evgeny Popov, the host of 60 Minutes, grinned like a Cheshire cat: “Let’s be glad about that.” Deputy of the Russian Duma Alexei Zhuravlyov agreed: “I certainly am.” He cheerfully concluded: “The worse for them, the better for us.” During the same broadcast, Popov pointed at the map of states supporting Trump’s desperate plight of overturning election results: “Just look at this map, this is a real beauty. Exactly half of the country, divided. America is divided!”
    ……..
    The Kremlin’s mouthpieces came to recognize the Republican party as their unusual bedfellows in helping to mar the crown jewel of the American democratic system and divide the society. Russian pundits inferred that they perceive the Republicans as fellow racists, who snapped into action to support Trump’s attempts to remain in power……..
    …….
    Once the electoral votes came in and the Kremlin finally acknowledged the outcome, state media pundits predicted that the GOP would shortly follow suit. With all respect due to the party that abandoned its own values in favor of the cult of personality and the pursuit of power at the expense of democracy, Russian International Affairs Council expert Alexey Naumov described Russian President Vladimir Putin as “the owner of Donald Trump” and “the main Republican.” Mocking the GOP, host Evgeny Popov, added: “Republicans, it’s time to give up. Your owner recognized the outcome.” Naumov added: “Your leader [Putin] already recognized Biden’s victory—what are you, dog, waiting for?”……..
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  32. @27. Rest easy; Hunter Biden is the smartest man Mortimer knows. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/19/2020 @ 11:25 am

    You gotta understand, Joe Biden is now one of the most successful politicians in world history. His family tragedy and his love of what family he still has might seem like a huge huge problem, but to the voters, it isn’t wrong that Joe thinks a lot of his son, speaks well of him despite his son being a collossal jackass. Voters identify with loving the family jackass.

    I do not identify with how Donald Trump sees his kids, or his kids being thrust into immense power despite being jackasses themselves. At least hunter’s not going to be in the administration (perhaps because of you and other Biden critics, to be honest).

    Dustin (4237e0)

  33. Ron Johnson is the Brick Tamland of the Senate.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  34. Russian Media Wants Moscow to Grant Asylum to Trump

    Russian state media—a reliable barometer of the mood at the Kremlin—remains fixated on election-related events in America. Affectionately referring to Donald Trump as “our Donald,” “Trumpusha” and “Comrade Trump,” Russian lawmakers, experts and pundits repeatedly have expressed their concerns about the future of Moscow’s all-time favorite U.S. president.

    Co-host of Russian state TV news talk show 60 Minutes Olga Skabeeva brought up the possibility that President Trump would end up seeking asylum in Russia to escape any prosecutions in the United States following the conclusion of his sole presidential term. Skabeeva emphasized that this was by no means a joking matter: “It’s all very serious,” she said, as she pondered out loud about the nature of criminal charges Trump might soon be facing.

    Experts in the studio enthusiastically discussed the likelihood of Trump being charged with a bevy of offenses from tax evasion to fraud and sexual assault. They concurred that Trump’s presidential pardon would not help him in state cases, unlike the recently advanced constitutional amendment in Russia that secured lifetime immunity from criminal prosecution for the country’s former presidents. Russian President Vladimir Putin can relate to Trump on a very personal level—not only where it comes to a ruthless pursuit of power, but also with respect to the intense fear of accountability if that power was to ever slip away. While Putin’s grip on Russia is feverishly safeguarded, Trump’s fate is far from certain.

    The rabidly anti-American military expert and member of the Russian Defense Ministry’s Public Council, Igor Korotchenko, spoke out in Trump’s defense with a passion that is drastically different from the combative rhetoric that traditionally accompanied his commentary about any other Western heads of state. Korotchenko angrily—not to mention ludicrously—compared “poor Trump’s” anticipated legal troubles to the Stalinist repressions of 1937. He argued: “Russia can offer political asylum to the persecuted former president of the United States, Donald Trump. But let him not simply arrive to Rostov or elsewhere, but also transfer his capital here and finally build his famous Trump City somewhere in our New Moscow.”
    ……..
    “Let him not simply arrive to Rostov or elsewhere, but also transfer his capital here and finally build his famous Trump City somewhere in our New Moscow.”
    …….
    Notorious politician Vladimir Zhirinovsky, who previously suggested that Putin should milk Trump like a cow before he is forced to leave office, enumerated actions he hoped Trump would undertake prior to his departure: recognize Russia’s annexation of Crimea, leave NATO, withdraw U.S. troops from every place they’re stationed worldwide, arrest disloyal U.S. state governors, refuse to recognize the outcome of the elections, force all states to conduct mandatory recounts, and induce Attorney General Bill Barr to pursue any actions that would benefit Trump.
    ……..
    ……..Appearing on Russia’s state TV show The Evening with Vladimir Soloviev, the deputy dean of World Politics at Moscow State University, Andrey Sidorov, predicted that the Biden presidency would spell out the consolidation of the entire Western world against Russia. Experts and lawmakers in Russian state media concurred that Moscow should anticipate additional sanctions in the near future.

    “Biden is telling us that America is back. What does that mean for us?” asked 60 Minutes host Evgeny Popov, noting Russia’s inability to adequately retaliate against U.S. sanctions. Deputy Speaker of the Russian State Duma (lower chamber of parliament) Pyotr Tolstoy responded with an ominous threat: “We’re going to use their computers to make sure that people like Biden and his entire team will never again imagine that they have the right to world domination. We will unquestionably demonstrate it to them in years to come. Just wait and see.”

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  35. You guys can’t have it both ways.”
    _

    Of course they can and that’s exactly what they did. They told the cancel sports idiots to shove it and showed how it’s done.
    __

    “I mean you kinda can on twitter since that’s where idiots are, “
    _

    Lol at blaming the platform and not the content provider.

    Of course there are idiots on Twitter, sometimes these same idiots also provide content to USA Today, The NY Times, CNN, WaPo etc……

    Christine Brennan
    @cbrennansports

    Note the date: 9/16/20, the day the vaunted Big Ten became the SEC. It choked. It got scared. It sold its soul for football. My
    @usatodaysports column on the darkest day in Big Ten history

    _

    harkin (8fadc8)

  36. But it sure isn’t helping the country for lefties to make things a race war, when the righties think that justifies all sorts of stupidity.

    Exactamento. A big chunk of the Trump base is white people who aren’t especially advantaged, who struggle for one reason or another, and they have seen people of other hues getting preferential admission to top colleges and preferential hiring by big companies, and those less-advantaged white people are told that they are oppressing every person of color, and that their very existence as white people constitutes an injustice to other categories of people (some of whom are quite wealthy), and that they need to sacrifice more to “level the playing field.”

    It’s a pernicious idea. It isn’t that there isn’t still racism in society, Even the best-intentioned people might be unaware of ways it persists. But racism is not exclusive to white people, and the perpetual effort to make white people feel guilty just for being born as they were — and others innocent victims by virtue of being not white — is certainly not the way to diminish racism. It creates a market for a demagogue like Trump, who assuredly has no deep understanding of the issues but somehow came to be seen as the truest champion in the fight against PC injustices.

    Meanwhile, Dems tend to be too zealous to prove how anti-racist they are — or how victimized by white people they are. In their righteous posturing and bean counting, they lose sight of how their favored policies affect individual persons.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  37. harkin wrote:

    “You guys can’t have it both ways.”

    _

    Of course they can and that’s exactly what they did. They told the cancel sports idiots to shove it and showed how it’s done.

    Have you ever played football? If you’re an offensive lineman, when you line up, there’s a defensive lineman, not a foot away from you, breathing in your face. Of course, neither of you are wearing respiration masks. Once the ball is snapped, you get really up close and personal.

    Well, Reichsstatthalter Andy Beshear (NSDAP-KY) decided that in person instruction in schools was just way, way, way too dangerous, and ordered all of them, public and private, shut down.

    But football? That was too important to cancel, and the Reich Governor allowed the high school football playoffs to continue.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  38. Voters identify with loving the family jackass.

    Absolutely. Normal people understand that even the best parents might have a child with emotional and behavioral issues, sometimes quite serious, and good parents do whatever they can to help.
    Trump has described himself as a father who had little to do with raising his children other than provide the money, and occasionally reinforce their mother’s “no.” I see no indication that he has much of a relationship with Barron (or Tiffany), but he sees the others as reflections of his own glory — or a potential fourth wife if not for the unfortunate fact that she’s his daughter.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  39. “ Have you ever played football? If you’re an offensive lineman, when you line up, there’s a defensive lineman, not a foot away from you, breathing in your face. Of course, neither of you are wearing respiration masks. Once the ball is snapped, you get really up close and personal.”
    _

    That must be why all those CFB linemen are dropping dead. Oh wait. And oh yeah there have been thousands of high school games too.

    The people who were telling us football would result in carnage also are hard core lockdown advocates who say every state should be as strict as CA and NY.

    But guess what:

    https://twitter.com/rstnghmcdfce/status/1338766987439337472?s=20

    And yes I played LB and WR. But Pop was a guard at Washington High and blocked for Hugh McElhenny.
    _

    harkin (8fadc8)

  40. Of course they can and that’s exactly what they did. They told the cancel sports idiots to shove it and showed how it’s done.

    It can’t both be a huge accomplishment to be productive in spite of this looming COVID risk and be that COVID is a fake news threat.

    Anyone pretending both are true, as your twitter troll guy is, is not trustworthy when they say that this ‘shove it’ attitude didn’t hurt anyone. It’s pretty easy to pretend COVID didn’t hurt anyone, despite, ya know, 300,000 dead people.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  41. Great comments, Radegunda

    Dustin (4237e0)

  42. @42 — Thanks, Dustin. I tend to agree with you, so of course I must be right.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  43. President PUTZ thinks the cyber attack is “fake news” but whether Jill Biden uses DR. before her name is important………………UNBELIEVABLE!

    Bowling Alone (27d313)

  44. whether Jill Biden uses DR. before her name is important………………UNBELIEVABLE!

    I have sometimes sniffed quietly at the use of the “Dr.” label by people outside academia who seem overly anxious to burnish their image, but I think it’s ridiculous for Republicans to try to make a scandal out of “Dr. Jill,” and it’s hypocritical when their criticism is that her graduate school was not prestigious enough.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  45. In an alternate universe somewhere, Mitt Romney is passing the baton to President-elect Paul Ryan in a COVID-free America.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  46. Harald Schmidt, an expert in ethics and health policy at the University of Pennsylvania

    There are two kinds of people in the world: Those that study Ethics, and those that don’t need to.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  47. @45 Radegunda

    Whether her school is prestigious enough or not should not be the question. The question is where is the GOP and their social media minions priorities? Yet they want to be re-elected?

    Bowling Alone (27d313)

  48. Someone should remind Senator Inhofe of all the couples who won’t get to celebrate their 61st wedding anniversary. Or any more for that matter.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  49. “There are two kinds of people in the world: Those that study Ethics, and those that don’t need to.”

    Which one is Trump?

    Davethulhu (431e91)

  50. all voting members of the committee indicated support for putting essential workers ahead of people 65

    I disagree about “essential workers” but “essential workers with close contact with the public” I could get behind — they are the vectors to the older people. Back-office drudges in the Bureau of Redundancy Bureau? Not so much.

    I could even get behind mandatory immunization of everyone between 15 and 35, as that’s where the irresponsible behavior is.

    The elderly are more likely to be immunocompromised and thus at risk for adverse side effects from immunizations.

    a) that’s not what “immunocompromised” means, but assuming you know that…
    b) the only people with bad reactions are those who always have bad reactions to vaccines. Most old folks do not carry around an epi pen (and in fact you charge more for life insurance to someone who needed to carry around an epi pen).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  51. whether Jill Biden uses DR. before her name is important………………UNBELIEVABLE!

    Hey, if she earned it, fine. My dear friend is a well known and highly respected physician and in 30+ years, I have never heard him refer to himself as Doctor X. When meeting people, he does not introduce himself as Dr. X, and when they find out who he is, he tells them to call him by his first name. But everyone is different. I’ve also worked with people in education who insisted that subordinates refer to them as Dr. X because they were insecure about their positions and wanted to people to *know*. Fine. Whatever.

    What bothered me about the Biden brouhaha was the slam against community colleges. Unfortunately, the sneering attitude toward community colleges and the lack of understanding about their value to certain communities and individuals doesn’t seem to matter. Here is an excellent thread on why community colleges are vital.

    Dana (cc9481)

  52. BA, that’s the sad part here. What exactly are the GOP policy priorities these days? I guess it’s some sort of nationalism with a heavy dose of ratcheting up fear of socialism. Its manifestation is in a jacked up pickup truck with a mounted American flag with Trump’s face pasted across it. Yeah I see a great future with that as your look.

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  53. Russia and China have been ‘adversaries’ for decades.

    I think the idea of Bob Iger, former Disney chairman, to be ambassador to China is a hard sell. Iger having a long friendly relationship with Xi, and Disney having so many business operations in China (e.g. Shanghai Disneyland), it would pretty much signal a general surrender to the Chinese.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  54. @52 Frankly, I think most people, in this day and age, should start out at community college. Trad 4 yr schools are often too expensive.

    Nic (896fdf)

  55. As for employer mandating vaccines, I don’t think they can so long as the vaccine remains experimental under a “compassionate” or “emergency” use authorization. Once it has regular approval, sure. But not until.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  56. Trad 4 yr schools are often too expensive.

    In-state public universities are a bargain, often a quarter the cost of a private university. Particularly in places like CA that have not yet ruined their public system.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  57. Trump Weighed Naming Election Conspiracy Theorist as Special Counsel
    President Trump on Friday discussed naming Sidney Powell, who as a lawyer for his campaign team unleashed conspiracy theories about a Venezuelan plot to rig voting machines in the United States, to be a special counsel overseeing an investigation of voter fraud, according to two people briefed on the discussion.

    It was unclear if Mr. Trump will move ahead with such a plan.

    Most of his advisers opposed the idea, two of the people briefed on the discussion said, including Rudolph W. Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer. ……..
    …….
    The White House counsel, Pat A. Cipollone, and the White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, repeatedly and aggressively pushed back on the ideas being proposed, which went beyond the special counsel idea, those briefed on the meeting said. Mr. Cipollone told Mr. Trump there was no constitutional authority for what was being discussed, one of the people briefed on the meeting said.
    ……
    ……[T]he the idea that Mr. Trump would try to install Ms. Powell in a position to investigate the outcome sent shock waves through the president’s circle. She has repeatedly claimed there was widespread fraud, but several lawsuits she filed related to election fraud have been tossed out of court.
    ……
    Part of the White House meeting on Friday night was a discussion about an executive order to take control of voting machines to examine them, according to one of the people briefed on the discussion.

    Mr. Giuliani has separately pressed the Department of Homeland Security to seize possession of voting machines as part of a push to overturn the results of the election, three people familiar with the discussion said. Mr. Giuliani was told the department does not have the authority to do such a thing.
    ………
    Another example of Trump’s wannabe authoritarianism.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  58. @56-
    No shirt, no shoes, no vaccine, no service.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  59. What does it mean to be immunocompromised during COVID-19?

    Being immunocompromised means that your immune system’s defenses are low, affecting its ability to fight off illness and infection, including COVID-19. Certain conditions like autoimmune diseases (i.e., lupus, rheumatoid arthritis and Type 1 diabetes), your age, and a history of smoking could increase the chance of infection. Medical treatments, such as cancer treatments and organ and bone marrow transplants, can also weaken or suppress the immune system.

    Please revisit my link and tell me why my earlier comment about the elderly is wrong, Kevin.

    DRJ (aede82)

  60. Specifically, tell me why this statement is wrong: The elderly are more likely to be immunocompromised.

    DRJ (aede82)

  61. Especially the elderly in nursing homes.

    DRJ (aede82)

  62. We all want a quick fix. Nursing home vaccines would make us feel better. They may not help nursing home residents.

    DRJ (aede82)

  63. @33. No. You gotta understand what the plagiarist-elect, the half-century government swamp creature, said: “[Hunter Biden] he’s he smartest man I know.”

    That’s absolutely terrifying.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  64. 46.In an alternate universe somewhere, Mitt Romney is on his own planet searching for the family dog that was flung free from the roof rack of his station wagon.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  65. Biden says his son is “smart” but Trump calls himself a “stable genius.” Trump is the terrifying one.

    DRJ (aede82)

  66. . No. You gotta understand what the plagiarist-elect, the half-century government swamp creature, said:

    Yeah yeah he loves his kid. I get that he isn’t condemning his own son on national TV like you apparently believe a good man would.

    But you told me repeatedly Biden was a terrible politician, who lost election after election, just a loser. Yet he was elected president. Not even 50 in human history have amassed as much power via a democratic process. Like Trump, Biden has a depth of skill with politics that his detractors do not understand, and can’t be understood in terms of factual accuracy. Yes, hunter’s a sleazy guy. Biden has repeatedly used his family tragedy, Hunter’s drug abuse included, to frame a narrative. Why would that help him? You don’t get it but it’s just a fact that he’s your president.

    I’m more inclined to give you points for the plagiarism thing (if you hadn’t beaten that horse to death). I think it’s really weird to cheat on a paper in law school. That shows insecurity and time management problems, obvious integrity problems, taking shortcuts when doing it right is almost as easy as cheating.

    But I rank a dad who loves his son far above a dad who doesn’t. Sorry but that’s just how it is.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  67. Trad 4 yr schools are often too expensive.

    In-state public universities are a bargain, often a quarter the cost of a private university. Particularly in places like CA that have not yet ruined their public system.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/19/2020 @ 2:04 pm

    Try finding a better bargain than BYU. For Mormons, the tuition is about $6,000 per year. For non-Mormons (who in my day had a club called the Higher Tuition Club), it’s double that, and still an outrageously good deal.

    norcal (b4d7b1)

  68. Mr M wrote:

    all voting members of the committee indicated support for putting essential workers ahead of people 65

    I disagree about “essential workers” but “essential workers with close contact with the public” I could get behind

    The part that gets me is that many are calling for prisoners to be near the head of the line.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  69. Radaginda wrote:

    I have sometimes sniffed quietly at the use of the “Dr.” label by people outside academia who seem overly anxious to burnish their image, but I think it’s ridiculous for Republicans to try to make a scandal out of “Dr. Jill,” and it’s hypocritical when their criticism is that her graduate school was not prestigious enough.

    There are, and will be, a lot of reasons to criticize the incoming Administration, but Jill Biden’s title seems to me to be a silly and petty thing about which to worry.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  70. News item: L.A. County will begin to “ration care” (aka triage)

    Yet people will still insist on making the same mistake at Christmas and New Year’s that they made at Thanksgiving. Then they blame Trump.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  71. In an alternate universe somewhere, Mitt Romney is on his own planet searching for the family dog that was flung free from the roof rack of his station wagon.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/19/2020 @ 3:00 pm

    If that’s your best shot against Romney, you are actually elevating him. I happen to think the dog on the roof of the station wagon story shows that Romney had to earn his own way in life, and wasn’t bequeathed a pile of money from his father.

    History will look kindly on Romney. He’s the only Republican senator who put principles above party, and above his own office, when he voted to convict Trump during the impeachment proceedings. He caught hell in Utah for what he did. People can rail all they want that Romney wasn’t conservative enough, but he took a principled stand when the senators who claimed to be conservative didn’t.

    norcal (b4d7b1)

  72. Dustin wrote:

    You don’t get it but it’s just a fact that he’s your president.

    Mr Biden may be the next President, but neither he, nor Donald Trump, not anyone else has even been “my” president. The President has authority over the government, but he does not, and should not, have authority over individuals who are not part of the government.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  73. It seems to me that being touchy about the “Dr” title is a lot like being touchy about a personal pronoun.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  74. Gotta give it to DCSCA, he has an unerring eye for the petty.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  75. The elderly are more likely to be immunocompromised.

    Yes.

    The elderly are more likely to be immunocompromised and thus at risk for adverse side effects from immunizations.

    No. In the context that they are more susceptible to an allergic reaction to vaccines, it’s a non sequitur. Vaccines are given to the elderly all the time (pneumonia and shingles for 2 that are specifically for the elderly). Allergic reactions are a different problem.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  76. @73: Shorter: He ain’t the boss of me.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  77. The part that gets me is that many are calling for prisoners to be near the head of the line.

    They should have been. Last March.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  78. Try finding a better bargain than BYU

    Well, among institutions that don’t discriminate on the basis of faith, the UC system is pretty cheap. In-state tuition (last I looked) circa $14K with highly rated places like UCLA. Berzerkley and several others. And if you can get into the better places in the system you probably can get a scholarship too.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  79. @71-
    Large Thanksgiving dinners, small Christmas funerals.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  80. Appeals court blocks San Diego County restaurant openings
    A California appeals court on Friday blocked a judge’s order allowing San Diego County restaurants to resume indoor and outdoor dining, keeping Gov. Gavin Newsom’s stay-at-home edict in full effect.

    A three-judge panel’s brief order gave no explanation and came almost immediately after the state asked for emergency intervention. Two strip clubs were given until Wednesday to ask the appeals court to reconsider.
    ……..
    The state on Friday asked the appeals court to immediately step in, saying the scope of the judge’s order far exceeded what the strip clubs sought when they sued in October. Lawyers said the state health care system was “on the brink of collapse” with no intensive-care beds available in Southern California.

    “In the midst of the worst surge in the COVID-19 pandemic … a single trial court judge has unilaterally thwarted public efforts to avert that looming catastrophe, by issuing an injunction that allows all restaurants in San Diego County to reopen without any restriction, contrary to the orders and judgment of the State’s top health officials,” lawyers for the governor wrote in their filing with the state’s Fourth Appellate District.
    ………
    Amid the rapid-fire developments, San Diego County reported a record 3,611 new confirmed cases Friday. California registered 300 coronavirus deaths and more than 41,000 cases Friday after a record 379 deaths and more than 52,000 cases Thursday.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  81. Republicans suddenly discover they don’t like naughty words
    …….
    (Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) )whom you might recall from the time he implied during a presidential campaign that Donald Trump has a small penis, is feeling distressed by something in the latest issue of Glamour magazine, a publication I would not have expected to be on his regular reading list.

    Way down in an interview with Jennifer O’Malley Dillon, the Joe Biden campaign manager who has been tapped to be White House deputy chief of staff, there is a quote in which she refers to Republicans as “f—-rs” and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) as “terrible.”

    Marco Rubio
    @marcorubio
    ·
    Dec 16
    Biden talks about unity and healing, but you want to know what they really think?

    Read how the person he wants as the next WH deputy chief of staff called Republicans in Congress a bunch of f***ers

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  82. #82 Cont’d

    Rubio was joined in his outrage by many other Republicans, who apparently are unaware that among the things that President Trump has achieved in his single term is bringing swearing into the mainstream. On just one day in 2019, this newspaper used the word “bulls***” five times in quoting Trump’s rants about his impeachment. Trump cusses liberally at his rallies, knowing it brings cheers from his devoted supporters. They see it as evidence of his toughness and willingness to call things the way he sees them.
    ……
    The quote that perturbed Rubio and a chorus of others came near the end of the article, and read in context it makes pretty much the opposite point that you’d expect if you saw only the reaction to it. What O’Malley Dillon suggests is that skeptical Democrats should put aside their belief that Biden is on a fool’s errand as he attempts to work with Republicans on Capitol Hill, where many continue to deny that his election was legitimate.
    ……
    ….. At a moment when the country faces a set of crises unlike any we have seen in many generations, Biden and his team want to get things done. They also recognize that doing so will require some give-and-take, given today’s political environment.
    …….
    What I’m wondering is whether it would have drawn any attention at all if those same words had been said by a male political operative……..

    This is a gender-laced nontroversy similar to the one over whether the incoming first lady, Jill Biden, who has a doctorate in education, is justified in using the title “doctor.” No one seems to have raised such an objection when Henry Kissinger did it.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  83. Between Rubio worrying about swear words and various right wing publications pondering ponderously on the legitimacy of the Dr. prefix it’s apparently a given that without any hint of irony the right wing is going to swing immediately to tone policing Biden and his administration as if nothing over the course of the last four years happened.

    I am trying to remember how they excused Trump’s language (who apparently is still the president and determined to remain that way if invoking martial law can help) – rude? brusque? telling it like it is? vulgar? hyperbole? brash? All of that to be swiftly forgotten as the new standard will be that Democrats must be unfailingly polite, and always humble.

    Victor (a225f9)

  84. It’s as if Republicans lawmakers don’t have anything else to do.

    Dana (cc9481)

  85. @72. History will look kindly on Romney.

    No. It won’t. And hasn’t.

    Any cultist prig who cowers behind a name like Pierre Delecto, entertained plans for a car elevator in his garage and who doesn’t have the balls to do SNL and laugh at himself yet dines of frog legs w/Trump in glorious humiliation is doomed. Hell, even McCain and Trump did SNL.

    But if it is a comfort to you to believe otherwise, do so in the spirit of the holidays.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  86. 75.Gotta give it to DCSCA, he has an unerring eye for the petty.

    Pierre Delecto does it to hizzself… as w/petty cash bets like $10,000.

    “I talk to the trees; but they don’t listen to me…” Sylvester Newell [Clint Eastwood] ‘Paint Your Wagon’ 1969

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  87. @81. It’s worse now than in March; no ICU beds in Southern California; SD and assorted local eateries and small businesses are literally dying and closing before our eyes, especially w/holiday sales and foot traffic curtailed. People are getting desperate. Meanwhile Nancy won’t get checks out w/Trump’s name on them and Republicans won’t agree on getting any aid out to anybody. Bastards all.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  88. Folks who voted for Trump to ensure glorious destruction for their enemies will be remembered well in cyrillic history books.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  89. @82. Apparently none of them have ever heard one of their own: listen to The Big Dick’s tapes for the endless and profanely ‘expletive deleted’ details.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)


  90. Los Angeles’ controversial new district attorney told the family of a murder victim they should “keep their mouth shut” — unwittingly, he later said — as they protested his office’s kid-gloves handling of the accused killers.

    “It’s unfortunate that some people do not have enough education to keep their mouth shut for a moment so we can talk,” George Gascon said in a video obtained by FOX 11 Los Angeles.

    https://nypost.com/2020/12/19/la-da-slams-victims-family-as-they-protest-sentencing-plan/

    Polk (ee43ea)

  91. We all want a quick fix.

    And Hunter Biden can tell you where and how to get one.

    “He’s the smartest man I know.”- Plagiarist-Elect JoeyBee

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  92. Vaccines are given to the elderly all the time (pneumonia and shingles for 2 that are specifically for the elderly).

    Those vaccines have been tested in the elderly. The Covid vaccines have also been tested in the elderly but not as much, obviously, because it is newer. That is my point — we don’t know much yet so we should carefully choose who we experiment on.

    Allergic reactions are a different problem.

    I said adverse side effects. Allergic reactions would, in my opinion, be a subset of that. There are other side effects that can occur like Guillain Barre’ Syndrome which would be a bigger problem, especially in the elderly.

    DRJ (aede82)

  93. Any cultist prig who cowers behind a name like Pierre Delecto, entertained plans for a car elevator in his garage and who doesn’t have the balls to do SNL and laugh at himself yet dines of frog legs w/Trump in glorious humiliation is doomed. Hell, even McCain and Trump did SNL.

    It’s a nice emotional rant, but it doesn’t contradict a single thing Romney has said or done since becoming a Senator. Romney has been right, consistently. His only real problem is that he’s not a good campaigner, and Trumpalistas are really angry about that.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  94. @88-
    Glendale Galleria, a major mall destination, was packed with shoppers today.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  95. Kevin,

    Are you trying to distinguish genetically immunocompromised people from those with more common diseases that weaken their immune systems, such as cancer and autoimmune diseases? If so, I don’t think informed immunologists make that distinction. Many vaccines are contraindicated for genetically immunocompromised patients, either because of their diseases or because they take IVIG/biologics for them. The elderly are more likely to have diseases that can weaken their immune systems and/or to take special meds, and people who have or had those diseases also need to consult informed professionals regarding vaccines (especially Shingles).

    DRJ (aede82)

  96. It’s worse now than in March; no ICU beds in Southern Californi

    Obviously masks and lockdowns work marvelously.
    Give people a little freedom, stop micro-managing their actions (while being hypocritical govt. officials), picking winners and losers in the business world and maybe people wouldn’t fight so much the little things like wearing a mask and social distancing. But tell them they can’t live their lives freely or make a living…. everything becomes a battle.

    Marci (405d43)

  97. This piece outlines the unfolding disaster that was Trump’s gross mishandling of the pandemic.

    The catastrophe began with Trump’s initial refusal to take seriously the threat of a once-in-a-century pandemic. But, as officials detailed, it has been compounded over time by a host of damaging presidential traits — his skepticism of science, impatience with health restrictions, prioritization of personal politics over public safety, undisciplined communications, chaotic management style, indulgence of conspiracies, proclivity toward magical thinking, allowance of turf wars and flagrant disregard for the well-being of those around him.

    The inescapable fact is that, for countries with more than 1 million population, we’re 9th worst in deaths per million and 2nd worst in cases per million. And now Trump’s mental derangement on the Russia hacks, Michael Flynn and Sidney Powell are just more reason that he has no business being president or member of the GOP after 1/20/2021. I want him out of my party.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  98. I want him out of my party.

    While I certainly understand this, Paul, do you believe that the Republican Party will then be purged of Trumpism? How do you envision it moving past Trump given there will still be Trump loyalists still holding positions of power and sway after he is out of office?

    Dana (cc9481)

  99. But tell them they can’t live their lives freely

    Marci,

    Do you see wearing a mask to help limit the transmission of a virus as actually preventing an individual from living their lives freely? If so, what is it that one can’t do with a mask on that they can do without wearing one?

    Dana (cc9481)

  100. We all want a quick fix.

    And Hunter Biden can tell you where and how to get one.

    “He’s the smartest man I know.” – The Plagiarist-Elect

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  101. @94. And true. =mike=drop=

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  102. @98. I want him out of my party.

    It’s not ‘your’ party any longer.

    So you may follow the fate of the Birchers, adapt to the change at hand a la Rockefeller Republicans circa 164; or just leave and try and start your own party w/fellow travelers– if you can muster enough of them or just and master irrelevance in the wilderness.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  103. ^circa 1964

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  104. What would Judge Sullivan say?

    When a DDA in Los Angeles attempted to withdraw a previously-sought enhancement in a case recently, the judge demurred. Obviously this is California law, not federal, but the similarities struck me.

    After a deputy district attorney sought to dismiss an enhancement against a defendant with a prior felony conviction last week, Superior Court Judge Alison M. Estrada said the prosecutor had “no independent authority” to do so unless the dismissal was in the interest of justice or due to a lack of evidence.

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-18/george-gascon-reform-bid-meets-resistance

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  105. I believe that Trump’s loyalists in positions of power will prove as loyal to him as they have been loyal to their party. That is, for as long as it advances their own interests. “What have you done for me, lately”, just like Trump. If Trump fades, they’ll fade.

    nk (1d9030)

  106. genetically immunocompromised people

    As I understand the issue with the Covid vaccine, the problems they see are allergies, not weakened immune systems (which could be cancer, HIV, or nearly any other immune system problem). The (I think it’s 3 now) people who have had anaphylactic reactions have significant allergies, to the point where they carry epi pens.

    I know someone with Stage IV NH lymphoma who is anticipating a vaccine shortly. I haven’t heard that’s contraindicated considering what would happen if he was exposed to Covid-19 without the vaccine.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  107. I think the idea of Bob Iger, former Disney chairman, to be ambassador to China is a hard sell. Iger having a long friendly relationship with Xi, and Disney having so many business operations in China (e.g. Shanghai Disneyland), it would pretty much signal a general surrender to the Chinese.

    ROFLMAO

    ‘When you wish upon a star,
    Makes no difference who you are
    Anything your heart desires
    Will come to you…’ Walt Disney’s Pinocchio, 1940

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  108. If Trump fades, they’ll fade.

    If Trump fades, they’ll find a new host.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  109. @106. Trump is/was a vessel. All those folks are waiting for is the next ship to come along.

    And he or she will.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  110. If Trump fades, they’ll fade.

    No way.

    The pattern is evident nd emerging over several cycles; the numbers have grown, not decreased. They’ll ride the next wave when he or she rolls in.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  111. Guillain Barre’ Syndrome

    Almost never occurs from a vaccination. It is usually triggered by a viral infection directly. Anyone at risk to be triggered by the inoculation would certainly be triggered by the actual virus.

    Guillain-Barre syndrome may be triggered by:

    Most commonly, infection with campylobacter, a type of bacteria often found in undercooked poultry
    Influenza virus
    Cytomegalovirus
    Epstein-Barr virus
    Zika virus
    Hepatitis A, B, C and E
    HIV, the virus that causes AIDS
    Mycoplasma pneumonia
    Surgery
    Trauma
    Hodgkin’s lymphoma
    Rarely, influenza vaccinations or childhood vaccinations
    COVID-19 infection

    Mayo Clinic

    In nearly every case I’ve heard, the risk of Covid is far worse than the risk of the vaccine, unless you are specifically allergic to something contained in the solution. Given the way these vaccines are developed, that kind of reaction is less likely than, say, the flu vaccine.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  112. While I certainly understand this, Paul, do you believe that the Republican Party will then be purged of Trumpism?

    Probably not, Dana, but I’m marking my territory because it’s my party, too. This will sound quixotic but, ideally, I want Trump to leave and start his own party and take his Kool Aid drinkers with him. If that doesn’t happen, then I’ll work from within to rid the GOP of Trump, his spawn and Trumpism, because I’m not leaving. I’m not the only one because I know Beldar (and others) is right there with me.
    I’ll do that ’til he’s gone or until a viable 3rd party of conservatives emerge. The party is fractured, and there’s going to be a battle between the Trump crowd and the folks who didn’t sell out.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  113. Hear! Hear!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  114. Kevin at 104. There are enhancements and there are enhancements. A prior conviction does not need to be proven anew, it has already been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, making it “merely” a factor in sentencing, and as a general rule (because I don’t know California’s rules) prosecutors can only recommend sentences and the judge has the final say no matter what they say.

    On the other hand, enhancements such as hate crime, which first need to be proven at trial beyond a reasonable doubt, fall within the prosecutor’s discretion, and as a general rule (again because I don’t know California’s rules) judges have no say in what charges a prosecutor chooses to bring.

    nk (1d9030)

  115. @84

    the new standard will be that Democrats must be unfailingly polite, and always humble.

    TBH, that has been the Trumpist standard throughout the past few years. A corollary of “Let Trump be Trump” has always been “Trump is special and he should get away with what others can’t.”

    I’ll add that Dems aren’t exactly innocent of hypocrisy or double standards. But the people who have chosen to grant so much indulgence to Trump while heaping worshipful praise on him have practically been begging for the label of hypocrite.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  116. @48 Whether her school is prestigious enough or not should not be the question.

    Point is that not long ago a GOP congress critter was sneering about all the Ivy Leaguers among Biden’s cabinet picks. Those elitists are so out of touch with ordinary Americans!! Never mind the Ivy Leaguers who have been in the Trump admin, or Trump’s own snobbery about academic credentials. So why should someone be shamed about getting an advanced degree at a lower-tier school?

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  117. Echoes… echoes… This will sound quixotic but, ideally, I want Goldwater to leave and start his own party and take his Kool Aid drinkers with him.

    FIFY.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  118. If that doesn’t happen, then I’ll work from within to rid the GOP of Trump, his spawn and Trumpism, because I’m not leaving. I’m not the only one because I know Beldar (and others) is right there with me.

    Shouldn’t take more than… oh, 45 years.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  119. Wait ’til the Plagiarist-Elect starts making w/t classic government swamp gas excuses of not being able to persuade and get things done because of “Congress” or some other half-assed rationale. The electorate wants a corporatist – flavored with the classic authoritarian appeal- who’ll get things done. Sure, Trump’s own persona got in the way of himself, but they’ve seen the contrast at work and in this era, to compete they’ll push for a proactive executive. The pattern is there.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  120. @57 It depends on which schools you are looking at. CSUs are reasonable (My master’s is from a CSU :P), but UCs are less so and schools in expensive areas can be more expensive due to the living expenses it takes to attend.

    @74 She’s blonde and was very pretty when she was younger. I’d bet she got tired of being treated like she was stupid and a Dr. in front of your name can help fix that problem.

    Nic (896fdf)

  121. It appears that all but the craziest Trumpers in the inner circle are getting genuinely worried that Trump wants to stage a military coup.

    IOW, the NeverTrumpers have always been right about the danger of giving the presidency to such a disordered personality.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  122. 119 – Isn’t the point of the Republican panic over Georgia to ensure that “Congress” stops Biden from doing the things he wants to? How is Republican control over two of the four veto points (Senate and Court) a “half-assed” excuse?

    Side note – “Swamp” had got to be the most over used and least understood current government metaphors. No two people will agree as to what or who it applies to except that they agree it applies to anybody or anything they oppose.

    Victor (a225f9)

  123. “Dems aren’t exactly innocent of hypocrisy or double standards.” Absolutely. Democrats are fairly ordinary people for the most part who will make ordinary mistakes in the next few years and be raked over the coals for it.

    Our current president is plotting with an ex- felon general and a deranged attorney to figure out the practicalities of announcing martial law and overturning an election. Less ordinary, but I expect that this will get only slightly more attention than the burning question of whether Jill Biden is or is not a doctor.

    Victor (a225f9)

  124. If you don’t like lockdowns especially outdoors which is the safes place to be. In california the recall petition is more then half way. Every business should have a petition to sign and every republican should be a petition gather. Put your butt and your money where your typing fingers are. California recall is scary for politicians as they have to get 50% or they are OUT! Ask grey davis about that! So politicians can’t play games by having multiple candidates running against them as this would only add votes to the other side. You should try to get this in your state as it really scares politicians except the ego-maniacs. Trump might get rid of him if he succeeds in declaring martial law and the insurrection act like he tried to to do on friday.

    asset (dcffe2)

  125. Democrats are fairly ordinary people for the most part who will make ordinary mistakes in the next few years

    I’m craving ordinary, even if I won’t like some policies. Previous GOP admins have been staffed by rather normal people — the kind that are now disdained by MAGA-dom, except to the extent they decided that their political future depended on humoring the MAGA-heads. I would also say that the Dem party has its quotient of kooks, but hasn’t put one in the Oval Office.
    There are semi-understandable reasons why so much of the GOP electorate saw its savior in a malignant narcissist, but I’ll never understand why some ostensibly intelligent people chose to see him as a leader of singular genius, dauntless courage, unalloyed patriotism, and genuine compassion for the little people. The explanation I’ve come up with is a kind of intellectual vanity that presumes to see a deeper truth in what looks nonsensical to the plain eye. In this case, the intellectual presumption is joined with a posture of being anti-elitist. I think there’s a version of this on the left, too.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  126. 9. AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 12/19/2020 @ 10:28 am

    What will it take for the Trump Apologists to say good riddance

    He’ll need to do something more obvious. Making these claims about the election isn’t it because there’s so much backing for it on talk radio etc and people can’t follow the argument. It’s mostly being argued against by argument from authority – but there are “authorities on the side too, so it hasn’t reached the point where it is glaringly obvious this is not real.And the other argument being made is just denial.

    and that we need someone different….even someone mediocre like Biden….coordinating our national security policy and response. How about sober up and give us some seriousness? Enough with the winging it…

    It would help if the alternative didn’t say, or seem to say, r be tolerant of, things that made absolutely no sense. And Trump’s blunders would have to become better known.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  127. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/19/2020 @ 8:58 pm

    In nearly every case I’ve heard, the risk of Covid is far worse than the risk of the vaccine, unless you are specifically allergic to something contained in the solution.

    The downside risk.

    The risk of some fever or discomfort at least is higher because they made the vaccine very very strong, For older people the risk of fever is less.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  128. I hope these vaccines are safe, effective, and widely implemented, Kevin. Fortunately, the early reports are promising but some people (such as the elderly) are more at risk than others.

    Nursing homes are at high risk for Covid and we want to help fix that, but is vaccinating the residents the answer? It is likely the staff is the problem, especially staff that serve multiple nursing homes. It seems to me the best plan is to vaccinate the staff. It may be cheaper and easier than supplying protective gear that is still in short supply.

    DRJ (aede82)

  129. I guess President Trump convened an Oval Office meeting on Friday that included Michael Flynn and Sidney Powell. You know – that bunch that is pushing for martial law and a Special Counsel to investigate the election. That’s right, the President is meeting with those folks. If you are not scared yet, drink another cup of coffee so you are completely aware… and then slap yourself.

    CNN reports that it got heated. The White House staff, that is not crazy, apparently didn’t appreciate what they had to say.

    Then there’s Putin. Wouldn’t you love to know what he’s been whispering into Donald Trump’s ear about this, as well as the Russian cyberattack that he’s trying to blame on China. Is anyone listening in on those calls anymore?

    noel (9fead1)

  130. On another front…

    There was a threat.

    In WW2, we made a million teenagers and twenty-year-olds suit up, leave home and head over to Europe. To die.

    Now, we can’t ask people to put on a mask while they’re shopping. For a few months. To keep them alive.

    noel (9fead1)

  131. covid covid covid is all a hoax to make president donald look bad mr noel and the dirty chineser virus will magically go away on the day after the election just you wait and see

    its obvious to anyone willing to do the analysis

    Dave (1bb933)

  132. the best plan is to vaccinate the staff.

    Vaccines don’t make them immune, just harder for a virus to take hold. They can still be infected for a day or so while the antibodies beat it down. I think you need to vaccinate the entire at-risk population and their care-givers.

    In my cynical moments I think that the first group will be all government workers though. Reasons.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  133. Mr M wrote:

    Try finding a better bargain than BYU

    Well, among institutions that don’t discriminate on the basis of faith, the UC system is pretty cheap. In-state tuition (last I looked) circa $14K with highly rated places like UCLA. Berzerkley and several others. And if you can get into the better places in the system you probably can get a scholarship too.

    Try Berea College:

    Berea College isn’t like most other colleges. It was founded in 1855 by a Presbyterian minister who was an abolitionist. It was the first integrated, co-educational college in the South. And it has not charged students tuition since 1892. Every student on campus works, and its labor program is like work-study on steroids.”

    Also tuition free, but hard as heck into which to be accepted, are the service academies.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  134. worried that Trump wants to stage a military coup.

    We haven’t executed anyone for treason in a long time. Maybe we need to.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  135. Cooper Union, which has one of the best engineering schools in the country, was tuition-free for over a century until 2012, when the financial crisis nuked their endowment. They hope to return to that by the end of the decade, but are now charging an average $16K/year.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  136. Kelli Ward, the head of Arizona’s GOP, is urging Trump to #CrossTheRubicon.

    As Dave Weigel suggests, maybe consider finishing the book before you use it in an analogy.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  137. News item: L.A. County will begin to “ration care” (aka triage)

    Yet people will still insist on making the same mistake at Christmas and New Year’s that they made at Thanksgiving. Then they blame Trump. (Mr M)

    @71-
    Large Thanksgiving dinners, small Christmas funerals.(Mr Murdock)

    Humans are social creatures; that’s why solitary confinement is such a horrible punishment. We need interaction with others, and if we don’t have it, a lot of people will simply go insane. The enforced isolation that the state Governors want to impose attempts to save human lives by not letting us be human beings.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  138. photographed last week attending a wine and paint event,

    I wonder if she’s –
    1. Science denier
    2. Hates fer family/friends and wants them infected.
    3. Knows something she isn’t sharing with voters.

    BillPasadena (5b0401)

  139. Also tuition free, but hard as heck into which to be accepted, are the service academies.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c) — 12/20/2020 @ 7:55 am

    That sounds awesome. I had never heard of that.

    I am a huge fan of community college. I think if you pay income tax your community college tuition should be waived, and CCs should limit the purchased textbooks, keep classes online and self-paced, do everything they can to accomodate people who work full-time. I love this idea of universities putting students to work instead of charging tuition. You gain a lot of people skills just working a regular job.

    I also just plain get annoyed with the constant improvement of amenities at the university I recently graduated from. At a certain point it gets ridiculous. I’ve been to nice resorts that aren’t as nice as this campus, and there are students riding those pay-per-minute scooters from a taj mahal student activity center to buy a nine dollar drink at Starbucks, then complaining about their six figures of debt that Biden should cancel. It’s this kind of thing that fueled Trump and will fuel the next one.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  140. DRJ wrote:

    Those vaccines have been tested in the elderly. The Covid vaccines have also been tested in the elderly but not as much, obviously, because it is newer. That is my point — we don’t know much yet so we should carefully choose who we experiment on.

    From The Philadelphia Inquirer: The COVID-19 vaccine wasn’t tested in pregnancy, but experts say it’s still worth considering if you’re expecting.

    My first reaction on reading that headline was: am I the only person around who has heard of Thalidomide?

    The vaccine hasn’t been tested on children yet, either.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  141. Calling it Chinese Virus or Wuhan Virus is racist hate mongering.

    Calling it a Russian hack or alluding to “Russian bombers” is just getting the facts straight.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  142. It’s worse now than in March; no ICU beds in Southern California

    Raises hand! I have the solution: take every hospital inpatient, in ICU or otherwise, who is an illegal immigrant, and ship them to Hospital General de México, HGM in Mexico City. Load ’em up and ship ’em out!

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  143. The First Noel wrote:

    Now, we can’t ask people to put on a mask while they’re shopping. For a few months. To keep them alive.

    You may certainly ask people to wear a mask when out shopping; it’s when you order people to do so that you get resistance.

    A few months? At least in the Bluegrass State, “few” now equals seven, and will soon equal eight, then nine, and then ten.

    The General Assembly begins its session on January 5th, and several bills have been prefiled to greatly restrict Reichsstatthalter Andy Beshear’s (NSDAP-KY) ’emergency’ powers under KRS 39A. The Reich Governor is supposedly very popular for his responses to COVID-19, but the 2020 election increased the Republican majority in the House from 62-38 to 75-25. The old majority was not a veto-proof margin; the new one is. The state Senate went from 28-10 Republican to 30-8 Republican.

    But, what’s that you said? It must be the result of gerrymandering? In 2011, when the last redistricting was done, the Governor was Steve Beshear, a Democrat, and the state House of Representatives was controlled by the Democrats; the GOP controlled the state Senate.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  144. it’s when you order people to do so that you get resistance.

    Those kids were ordered to europe in the 1940s. They were a better America than we are today, at least in terms of their willingness to support their president, their country, their people.

    A few months? At least in the Bluegrass State, “few” now equals seven, and will soon equal eight, then nine, and then ten.

    A) So what though?

    B) The reason it’s not working is because the people who say it won’t work refuse to cooperate and make things work

    It is not that bad to wear a mask, even for long periods of time under stress. Sometimes I used band-aids to my glasses wouldn’t fog. Beyond that, it is not a big deal. If you have asthma and one lung and are allergic to masks, it is still not a big deal.

    What’s good is that people have made that choice now. Internally, they know whether they actualy love the USA or not. We have a lot of work to do, but at least we can see so plainly.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  145. Sorry, I wrote 1 million deaths in WW2. 400,000 deaths??

    Total casualties nearer to a million, I believe. (Google gives you lots of figures.)

    noel (9fead1)

  146. @142 – About the cyberattack, Trump is saying “Why blame Russia? It may have been China!!” Is that racist hate-mongering, or just getting the facts straight?

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  147. SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — A record 621 people died of drug overdoses in San Francisco so far this year, a staggering number that far outpaces the 173 deaths from COVID-19 the city has seen thus far.
    _

    At least they’re using clean, taxpayer-provided needles.
    _

    harkin (8fadc8)

  148. I think you need to vaccinate the entire at-risk population and their care-givers.

    Many nursing home residents are “at risk” because they are already sick and weak. We could mandate everyone get vaccinated, which would be good for herd immunity, but we will always have some people who will be harmed by a vaccine. We should choose groups carefully since we have limited vaccine supplies now. Eventually we will let everyone have access and decide for themselves (with their health care providers’ help), but in these early days we are deciding which groups to vaccinate. I prefer letting healthy first responders and healthcare staff go first, then the elderly. They are at risk, too, but it is a different risk.

    DRJ (aede82)

  149. Mitt Romney spoke about the current state of the Republican Party this morning:

    “The party that I knew was very concerned about Russia and Putin and Kim Jong-un and North Korea, and we pushed back aggressively against them,” Romney said. “We were a party concerned about balancing the budget. We believed in trade with other nations.”

    “We were happy to play a leadership role on the world stage because we felt that made us safer and more prosperous, and we believed that character was essential in the leaders we chose.”

    “We strayed from that. I don’t see us returning to that for a long time.”

    Yes, but: Romney stopped short of saying he would ever leave the party, instead saying he is “more effective” being in the party while trying to return it to its original values.

    “I think ultimately the Republican party will return to the roots that have been formed over — well, the century.”

    Dana (cc9481)

  150. My first reaction on reading that headline was: am I the only person around who has heard of Thalidomide?

    Our entire drug approval regime is based on the thalidomide experience, to the point of killing people through excessive caution.

    If this vaccine kills 1000 people but protects the other 299,999,000 from the disease, it will be well ahead of the game. It might be a good idea to minimize those in danger from the vaccine, but the disease is a clear & present danger to many.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  151. A record 621 people died of drug overdoses in San Francisco so far this year, a staggering number that far outpaces the 173 deaths from COVID-19 the city has seen thus far.

    Personal responsibility! You can’t kill someone else from a drug overdose just by getting in close proximity. And there must be something keeping the SF death rate low relative to other major cities.

    Also, a lot of people who have survived Covid show lingering symptoms–including loss of a lower leg in at least one case. So death rate isn’t the only concern.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  152. SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — A record 621 people died of drug overdoses in San Francisco so far this year, a staggering number that far outpaces the 173 deaths from COVID-19 the city has seen thus far.
    _

    At least they’re using clean, taxpayer-provided needles.
    _

    harkin (8fadc8) — 12/20/2020 @ 9:40 am

    They had a needle exchange in Austin near a taco place I liked. For some reason it went out of business. There are tent cities all over the city now, and let me tell you it doesn’t smell like tacos. I’ve encountered deceased homeless that I’ve engaged for years, often engaged almost to the point of being friends, then the same day used that example to talk to the homeless in the alleys near off campus housing about a bad batch of K2 or just talking to them because I know they use the same drugs that just killed somebody they knew. Very often some well-meaning UT student would accuse me of hassling those homeless folks, but they don’t get to see the full picture. It isn’t even frustrating because you naturally develop a sense of humor about it (or go nuts).

    I’d be lying if I said this didn’t make me more sympathetic to the Trump side of things. If Trump were a half-decent man it would be a lot easier to make political decisions.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  153. Now, we can’t ask people to put on a mask while they’re shopping. For a few months. To keep them alive.

    Here in NM, stores will refuse entrance to anyone not masked, and will ask anyone who then removes their mask to leave. Private property. And yes, the state orders this, but so do customers. A store that does not enforce this will be shunned by far more than enter to express their freedom to infect.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  154. Theoretically, the GOP could be an even bigger Party if it finds a way to appeal to disaffected Americans who supported Trump, without embracing Trump’s ultimately futile methods.

    At heart, Trump supporters want a safety net for poor workers. Trump’s immigration and trade policies were really addressing that concern. The GOP has always been willing to help struggling industries with subsidies, like agriculture. It needs to find a way to help the working poor.

    DRJ (aede82)

  155. If Trump were a half-decent man it would be a lot easier to make political decisions.

    I’d settle for him not being ignorant, incompetent or stubborn-stupid. After that, I wouldn’t care if he was a cast-iron SOB. Maggie Thatcher wasn’t a warm human being, but she at least knew how to make things work.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  156. If this vaccine kills 1000 people but protects the other 299,999,000 from the disease, it will be well ahead of the game.

    That is certainly true for American society and the world, and that is good. But statistics can make us heartless. Those 1,000 (or 100,000 or even 1,000,000) people who are hurt by a vaccine are 100% hurt.

    PS regarding our theories. Transmission after vaccination may or may not be a problem:

    We also have at least one example of a vaccine that can end up protecting the vaccinated person more than the community at large, Parikh told me. The flu vaccines are notoriously imperfect in how well they protect against infection, as effectiveness rates fluctuate but tend to be between 40 and 60 percent. That’s better than nothing for the people who get them — especially because we know that, even if you do get sick, having had the vaccine can result in a less severe illness. But, Parikh said, that means that person — vaccinated, less susceptible, and less sick than they otherwise would have been — can still spread influenza around the community.

    That’s the kind of thing scientists are worried about. But they’re also optimistic. “I suspect the answer will be that people will not be able to transmit — that the virus will protect from transmission, because I think there will be enough antibodies made that will neutralize the virus even at the mucosal surface,” said Dr. Warner Greene, senior investigator at Gladstone Institutes, an independent, nonprofit research lab in San Francisco. “But it is just a guess at this point,” he added.

    It’s a guess Bhattacharya agreed with. The Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines have, after all, turned out to be much more effective than those tricky flu vaccines. “If you have a vaccine that’s 95 percent effective at reducing symptoms, there is no universe in which it wouldn’t also reduce the likelihood of transmission. It’s just not possible,” he said. “So we’re not talking about whether it reduces transmission or not, we just want to get an extent as to how much.”

    Figuring that out, though, is going to take some time. Bhattacharya and Greene estimated months; Parikh said six months to a year. So, it’ll be a little longer until vaccinated individuals can let their guard down. Even after you get your two jabs, you should wear a mask and avoid crowds and situations where you could spread the virus to a lot of other people.

    DRJ (aede82)

  157. Those kids were ordered to europe in the 1940s. They were a better America than we are today, at least in terms of their willingness to support their president, their country, their people.

    Willingness?

    You’ve never carried a draft card in your wallet, have you.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  158. At heart, Trump supporters want a safety net for poor workers. Trump’s immigration and trade policies were really addressing that concern

    I disagree with the “safety net” part of that — that’s the Democrat solution — open borders, “free” trade and the dole for those affected. What Trump’s supporters want is not dole, but the same access to jobs their parents had. The gutting of American industry and manufacturing, the massive importation of low-wage tradesmen, and the reliance on imports have all hit them hard.

    Trump’s programs have been aimed at increasing Americans’ opportunities at the expense of foreign workers in a variety of ways. That Trump was unable to deliver on much of his program was about Trump, not the program.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  159. PS regarding our theories. Transmission after vaccination may or may not be a problem

    Hard to say. I think that the most likely thing is that the period of transmission is MUCH shorter, maybe only a few hours, as the virus only lasts until the (now-trained) immune system sends in the police.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  160. The Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines have, after all, turned out to be much more effective than those tricky flu vaccines

    We’ll see what happens if tt=his virus mutates a lot, like the flu does.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  161. What Trump’s supporters want is not dole, but the same access to jobs their parents had. The gutting of American industry and manufacturing, the massive importation of low-wage tradesmen, and the reliance on imports have all hit them hard.

    I don’t think we can do that for anyone. Economies change, technologies change, people change.

    DRJ (aede82)

  162. I wonder if the recent California outbreak is in part due to the virus mutating. I am sure there are other factors but the increases there and in other places seem to be due to more than changes in behavior.

    DRJ (aede82)

  163. Whatever the transmission turns out to be, focusing on first responders and healthcare workers will maximize protection to others because they are the most reliable mask wearers.

    DRJ (aede82)

  164. Trump’s immigration and trade policies were really addressing that concern.

    Trump’s trade policies cost ten American jobs for every job (temporarily) “saved”.

    Dave (1bb933)

  165. SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — A record 621 people died of drug overdoses in San Francisco so far this year, a staggering number that far outpaces the 173 deaths from COVID-19 the city has seen thus far.

    It galls me when people try to use various causes/numbers of death to downplay the dangers of the virus. “More people died from X than they have the virus,” as if those virus deaths didn’t matter. Those 173 people who died caught the virus from someone else. Yet it’s very reasonable to assume that the 621 people who died of a drug overdose, put the needle in their arms themselves. You cannot die from someone else’s overdose. It is not contagious. You can die as a result of someone else’s carelessness. By not socially distancing and/or wearing a mask when around those not from your own household, others are put at risk. As are you.

    The question I would have is, how many Covid patients in SF have ended up in the ICU and survived? How many people have contracted the virus obviously from someone else?

    Dana (cc9481)

  166. I think you need to vaccinate the entire at-risk population and their care-givers.

    This is a pandemic fueled by an airborne virus that moves freely through the atmosphere of open and closed societies. And a mutant strain has taken hold in the UK [reportedly from Denmark] and is spreading, uncontrolled, per reports this morning.

    https://metro.co.uk/2020/12/19/covid-mutant-strain-what-are-symptoms-and-why-is-it-more-contagious-13777572/

    “Andromeda will spread everywhere! They’ll never be rid of it!” – Dr. Jeremy Stone [Arthur Hill] ‘The Andromeda Strain’ 1971

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  167. I don’t like “dole” either, but they want support and the pandemic has shown how many people need help when there are disruptions. A fair, predictable system appeals to me more than the massive unpredictable giveaways we are seeing now.

    DRJ (aede82)

  168. Is the weight of losing causing Trump to crack? It would seem so.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/12/20/trump-white-house-losing-448903

    He has been remarkably resilient through his business failures, bankruptcies and lawsuits, of which there were many, thanks to his father’s wealth and the family estate accountant, but now he’s having a psychic crisis. What will he do when he’s no longer the center of attention? That and his looming legal and financial difficulties–the New York AG and the Manhattan DA are intensifying investigations into him, his family and his organization on serious charges; other states like New Jersey, Illinois, Virginia, Florida, possibly the District of Columbia, may well follow suit. I’d say he’s more than a little worried now. He can’t be pardoned for state crimes.

    The passages posted from Russian media by Rip Murdock above were interesting, but they were more comical. Trump is not going to seek asylum in Russia. He’s raised over $200 million for his election defense PAC in just a few weeks. He’s not going anywhere, because he can’t take that money with him–it can only be used for political purposes in the US. Trump is not about to relinquish his control of the Republican party, or the adulation he derives therefrom. It’s all he has left.

    There is the matter of the hundreds of millions in personally guaranteed loans he owes to foreign banks and creditors (oligarchs) that come due within the next two years. Where is he going to get the money to pay those notes off? This guy is over $1 billion in debt. His hotels, resorts and golf courses are losing money. He can’t use his PAC funds to pay off those debts. So his only option is to move to Mar-A-Lago and try to start his own party, the Trumpublicans, pretend to be kingmaker for down ballot Republicans, the Gratuitously Obsequious Party in the primaries and the midterm elections.

    All while he’s facing indictment and prosecution for tax, bank and wire fraud, not to mention illegal campaign contributions. None of which will end well for him. It’s over. Trump can claim voter fraud, election theft, faulty voting machines, all he wants. The courts aren’t having anything to do with it, neither are the governors and state legislatures. It is so over. Calls for martial law and confiscating voting machines are ridiculous on their face. The American people will never stand for anything like that.

    So it comes down to Trump on his lonely little island, desperately trying to avoid prosecution for multiple crimes. State, not federal, although I think he should be indicted and prosecuted for federal crimes. Biden may not want to pursue those prosecutions of those crimes, acting as the benevolent chief executive. Much like Ford pardoning Nixon.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  169. Dave, my point is that I don’t think there will be huge concern for trade policies if there are jobs available for the working poor. They typically have no safety net except family and church.

    DRJ (aede82)

  170. What Trump’s supporters want is not dole, but the same access to jobs their parents had.

    Unpossible. Anyone who suggests otherwise is either kidding themselves or lying.

    And it’s a destructive lie.

    Dave (1bb933)

  171. California’s surge can likely be attributed, in great part, to Covid-fatigue. People are just worn out from it. This report suggests a few other things too:

    Multiple factors are at play when it comes to California’s sudden acceleration of coronavirus cases, including Covid-19 fatigue, resistance to stay-at-home regulations, the huge number of essential workers and the socioeconomic factors of the pandemic affecting poorer and minority households.

    Likely it is a combination of these things. It also doesn’t help that the police seem to be fairly regularly having to break up house parties in So. Cal, where anywhere from 100-200 or so young people are congregating without any social protocols being observed. Further, there have been a lot of return-to-work rallies throughout the state too. Unfortunately, from the photos I’ve seen, most people are not masked-up at the events, which draw in large crowds. Also, too many people are just flat-out refusing to wear a mask when around others not from their households. Some of it is preventable, and that’s why it’s so frustrating to see the increase in numbers.

    Dana (cc9481)

  172. They want jobs and paychecks. I don’t know the answer. Maybe re-training and re-education; maybe conservation corp work to bridge gaps; maybe targeted industry subsidies; or maybe sunsetting regulations that prevent job growth. Probably lots more ideas but this should be what the GOP says: We hear you. We have better ideas than Trump had — ideas that worked for your parents and will work for you.

    DRJ (aede82)

  173. Dave, my point is that I don’t think there will be huge concern for trade policies if there are jobs available for the working poor. They typically have no safety net except family and church.

    Unemployment was 4.6% in November 2016, when Trump was elected.

    For whites, it was 4.2%.

    Dave (1bb933)

  174. That is why I call them the working poor. They have jobs but it is still hard to get by.

    DRJ (aede82)

  175. All things considered, I think we’ve proven that it’s a very good thing we are not at war and facing necessary food rationing, curfews, and the requirement that everyone must have their gas mask with them at all times, because we just couldn’t do it.

    Dana (cc9481)

  176. The government says the poor are over 11% of the population and the working poor are 4.5% of the labor force. Far more are on the margins, unable to save ahead. They don’t feel stable.

    DRJ (aede82)

  177. Came across this interesting and relatively recent snapshot comparing earnings and employment in metro and non-metro areas.

    Slides 11 and onward really show the difference in earning potential from education.

    Dave (1bb933)

  178. The government says the poor are over 11% of the population and the working poor are 4.5% of the labor force.

    And yet, as the table in that article shows, the working poor fell from around 7% in 2009 to 4.9% in 2016.

    And the graph shows that the 4.9% rate in 2016 was the second-lowest in the preceding thirty years, beaten only by 2000’s 4.7%.

    The data don’t really support the narrative that this is a new or growing problem, in fact quite the opposite.

    Dave (1bb933)

  179. Major U.S. companies are lobbying in a scrum for early vaccine
    Companies across America — from Amazon and Uber to railroads and meatpacking plants — are lobbying states and the federal government to prioritize their workers for early immunization against the coronavirus amid limited supplies of the vaccine.
    …….
    Money talks

    Rip Murdock (ef7400)

  180. I don’t think it is a new problem. In 2017, almost 8 in 10 workers lived paycheck-to-paycheck, even high-earning workers. I doubt that has come down much since then. We can’t solve that easily or maybe at all, but I think it is at the heart of current Democratic Party and Trump support. The remaining 2 in 10 workers may be the conservatives.

    DRJ (aede82)

  181. Before the pandemic, some people could live within their means, some weren’t willing to, and some were unable to. Some will always will be unable to. By November 2020, a lot more were unable to and more were feeling economic uncertainty. I think we saw this in the turnout and in the split between which candidate would help them most.

    DRJ (aede82)

  182. Indeed, the Democrats have always been telling people to blame others if they aren’t happy with their circumstances. “If you want to live like a Republican, vote Democratic.”

    Republicans, at worst, told people that the government (due to stupidity rather than malice) wasn’t helping them, but emphasized personal responsibility and initiative.

    Trump, on the other hand, conned his cultists by shamelessly aping the Democrats’ grievance mongering. Only the identities of the oppressor and the oppressed have changed.

    Dave (1bb933)

  183. 125. Radegunda (b6cc34) — 12/19/2020 @ 11:43 pm

    I would also say that the Dem party has its quotient of kooks, but hasn’t put one in the Oval Office.

    But I think one or two won the nomination.

    There are semi-understandable reasons why so much of the GOP electorate saw its savior in a malignant narcissist, but I’ll never understand why some ostensibly intelligent people chose to see him as a leader of singular genius, dauntless courage, unalloyed patriotism, and genuine compassion for the little people.

    Can you give me any examples of any pundit who really did that?

    The explanation I’ve come up with is a kind of intellectual vanity that presumes to see a deeper truth in what looks nonsensical to the plain eye.

    There is maybe a tendency towards seeing genius in rejecting nonsense. Ronald Reagan was the beneficiary of that.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  184. Republicans, at worst, told people that the government (due to stupidity rather than malice) wasn’t helping them, but emphasized personal responsibility and initiative.

    Apparently, Republicans limit their “personal responsibility and initiative” to things other than social distancing and wearing a mask. Selective personal responsibility.

    Dana (cc9481)

  185. Fiscal responsibility is also very important, Dana, but only when Democrats hold the White House!

    Dave (1bb933)

  186. So I guess this is happening:

    At the TPUSA conference today, @RepMattGaetz said he’d challenge the certification of the Electoral College vote on January 6, and that he’d just talked to Sen-elect. Tuberville about it.

    “The odds may be tough, it may be 4th and long, but we’re going for it on January 6.”

    David Perdue, too.

    Because apparently, what the country needs even more craziness from Trumpers.

    Dana (cc9481)

  187. Dana (cc9481) — 12/20/2020 @ 10:41 am

    California’s surge can likely be attributed, in great part, to Covid-fatigue. People are just worn out from it.

    Lockdowns don’;t work, and may even be counterproductive because they are not a solution, but amount to treading water. Get off that hamster wheel, to mix metaphors, and you fall in. They never told people how long the shutdowns would have to last.

    http://ssbhalla.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Lockdowns-Closures-vs.-COVID19-Covid-Wins-Nov-4.pdf

    I could amend what he says to say:

    Lockdowns don’t work, unless

    Both of the following tow things are true:

    1) They are not abandoned until the incidence of Covid-19 within the lockdown area is reduced to zero. Zero. Not 100. Not 50. Not 20. Not 12. Not 5. Zero. Or else you are back where you started.

    2) The place locked down is put into a bubble and almost entirely isolated from the rest of the world.

    For years, if necessary. Till it’s gone from the world.

    Otherwise the only way to halt the spread is herd immunity, whether achieved by infections, or vaccines, or a combination of both.

    Caveat: You could also give people temporary immunity with neutralizing monoclonal antibodies or (probably) with ivermectin.

    You could also keep the number of cases very low by careful testing and contact tracing. You;d need different tests than PCR tests though.

    I heard about 1 in 80 Californians are positive for Covid 19. The fraction of people who are number contagious at any one time would be lower, perhaps one in 250 or 600. Now 99.95% of those under 70 survive or should survive with good medical treatment.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  188. Because the country needs even more craziness from Trump loyalists…

    So they’re going to force every GOP rep and senator to choose between America and Trump, in a roll call vote?

    I’m giddy with anticipation.

    Dave (1bb933)

  189. 182. DRJ (aede82) — 12/20/2020 @ 11:45 am

    By November 2020, a lot more were unable to and more were feeling economic uncertainty. I think we saw this in the turnout and in the split between which candidate would help them most.

    And which candidate would hurt them.

    The people economically worse off tilted toward Trump more than in 2016 because Biden and the Democrats seemed too comfortable with lockdowns and they weren’t screaming to the high heavens about making everybody good with enormous deficit spending.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  190. There is maybe a tendency towards seeing genius in rejecting nonsense.

    But seeing the nonsense that regularly comes from this president as an expression of a unique genius is quite another thing.

    Can you give me any examples of any pundit who really did that?

    Anyone who writes for American Greatness, or who signed the pre-election ad praising Trump’s “astonishing achievements,” or who has ever declared that no one else could or would have done some good thing Trump did, or that no one else could have withstood so many assaults and kept soldiering on for America’s benefit. Or the academic (whose name I don’t recall) who recently wrote that it took someone like Trump (i.e. no one but Trump), emerging from the privileged elite (whose plaudits he in fact always craved), to cast aside any motive of self-interest (!!) and valiantly defend ordinary Americans from oppression by the privileged elites.

    How anyone can listen to Trump for very long and think he does anything selflessly is a puzzle. But Trump defenders at all levels either believe it or keep telling themselves it’s true.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  191. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/20/2020 @ 10:21 am

    We’ll see what happens if tt=his virus mutates a lot, like the flu does.

    It doesn;t, and they;ve known that since February.

    Another thing that was wrong: Some people who call themselves epidemiologists worried about a flu season on top of Covid. Of course all the measures taken to stop the spread of Covid worked even better for flu.

    They were wrong about many things including the idea that it was a novel virus that nobody had any immunity to. About 40% of the world’s population did because it was similar to 4 other coronavirusus that merely cause colds. I call that the cowpox version. (ot does mutate, but slowly, and the vaccines are being made I think to target the spike protein without which it won’t infect anyone.)

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  192. 189. Dave (1bb933) — 12/20/2020 @ 12:47 pm

    So they’re going to force every GOP rep and senator to choose between America and Trump, in a roll call vote?

    I’m giddy with anticipation.

    That would be nice to see.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  193. 187. David Perdue won’t be a Senator on January 6!. Win or lose.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  194. Speaking of Twitter, the new design of the Friendship cottage cheese container makes it look like Twitter has merged with Friendship cottage cheese.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  195. Jupiter and Saturn will be very near to each other in the sky the night of the winter solstice.

    https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-great-conjunction-20201217-5w44lnjndjf2fdld63doiqami4-story.html

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  196. @148, there’s also the Arizona GOP extolling Donald the Lionhearted.

    And all the people who agree with Dan Scavino’s fantasy of a Churchillian Trump.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  197. 160. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/20/2020 @ 10:20 am

    . I think that the most likely thing is that the period of transmission is MUCH shorter, maybe only a few hours, as the virus only lasts until the (now-trained) immune system sends in the police.

    A person is not seriously contagious immediately after infection. It takes awhile.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  198. @196. Thinks for the reminder. A couple of weeks ago I put a little sticky note in my workspace to remind myself, but by now it’s just part of the decor. If I want to be sure I don’t forget something, I put it in the middle of the floor, but that only works overnight.

    Radegunda (b6cc34)

  199. I think each state’s votes have to be challenged individually.

    If they allow two hours of debate per challenge, they might not finish on January 6…

    Dave (1bb933)

  200. worried that Trump wants to stage a military coup.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/19/us/politics/trump-sidney-powell-voter-fraud.html

    President Trump on Friday discussed naming Sidney Powel…to be a special counsel overseeing an investigation of voter fraud, according to two people briefed on the discussion..

    …Most of his advisers opposed the idea, two of the people briefed on the discussion said, including Rudolph W. Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer…

    …Mr. Giuliani joined the discussion by phone initially, while Ms. Powell was at the White House for a meeting that became raucous and involved people shouting at each other at times, according to one of the people briefed on what took place.

    Ms. Powell’s client, retired Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn, the former national security adviser whom the president recently pardoned, was also there, two of the people briefed on the meeting said. Some senior administration officials drifted in and out of the meeting.

    During an appearance on the conservative Newsmax channel this week, Mr. Flynn pushed for Mr. Trump to impose martial law and deploy the military to “rerun” the election. At one point in the meeting on Friday, Mr. Trump asked about that idea.

    Ms. Powell’s ideas were shot down by every other Trump adviser present, all of whom repeatedly pointed out that she had yet to back up her claims with proof. At one point, one person briefed on the meeting said, she produced several affidavits, but upon inspection they were all signed by a man she has previously used as an expert witness, whose credentials have been called into question.

    The White House counsel, Pat A. Cipollone, and the White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, repeatedly and aggressively pushed back on the ideas being proposed, which went beyond the special counsel idea, those briefed on the meeting said.

    Mr. Cipollone told Mr. Trump there was no constitutional authority for what was being discussed, one of the people briefed on the meeting said. Other advisers from the White House and the Trump campaign delivered the same message throughout the meeting, which stretched on for a long period of time…

    ….Mr. Trump tends to think of Justice Department appointees when he describes special counsels, but those briefed on the meeting said the idea was for Ms. Powell to serve as a special counsel within the White House, appointed by the president, according to those briefed on it.

    Mr. Trump also asked about Ms. Powell being given security clearances to pursue her work, two of the people briefed on the meeting said.

    Ms. Powell accused other Trump advisers of being quitters, according to the people briefed…

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  201. Didn’t they recently say Powell was obviously never part of Trump’s team? They sure do think their supporters are stupid.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  202. Sammy, I think Covid does mutate. It is a virus and they typically mutate. Plus, the current British version has clearly mutated.

    DRJ (aede82)

  203. Mr M wrote:

    The Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines have, after all, turned out to be much more effective than those tricky flu vaccines

    We’ll see what happens if tt=his virus mutates a lot, like the flu does.

    We just began administering the vaccines last week. We have absolutely no data how well these vaccines will work once in general use. There may yet be ‘surprises.’

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  204. DRJ @203

    Covid mutates – in fact it is itself a mutation. The main difference between it and the less dangerous viruses is that the part that enters the cell is protected a lot of the time by a covering that nearly covers it up. It infects cells very gradually. The fact that it’s not exposed prevents the body from building up immunity. At least that’s sort of what I read awhile ago seems to mean.

    But it mutates a lot more slowly than the flu virus. Now flu vaccines are not targeted toward the part that infects cells – the part that if it were to change, it wouldn’t cause flu – but to some random parts of the protein coating. So a vaccine, or a person’s own immunity, can be rendered worthless.

    Another reason flu vaccines aren’t that good is that they have to decide more than half a year in advance which varieties of flu are going to become prevalent.

    Although they know they should be doing something different they haven’t changed much of what they are doing in years.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  205. 202/ Sidney Powell is no longer part of Trump’s team, and she was working very independently of Giuliani and all the others. Giuliani broke with her a while back.

    But evidently she still has a link to Trump. We don’t know through whom.

    You can see in this New York Times article, Giuliani, not to mention the White House counsel, and Trump’s chief of staff, was arguing with Trump not to listen to her. Or directly arguing with her.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  206. Just stopping by to wish everyone a Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Kwanzaa, Festivus, Yule, or anything else you celebrate.

    I’d say Happy Chanukah too, except it’s already over.

    Kishnevi (434aca)

  207. 200. The debate might stretch on a little while, but the challenges have to made at the time, and I think probably the Senate can conduct no other business till this is disposed of. Even if that is not so, it takes a few weeks for the election to become fully counted and certified. Mark Kelly was not sworn in to replace Martha McSally until around the end of November although he would be sworn in as soon as the winner was determined, not January 3, 2021.

    Because the term starts and ends on January 3 and the runoff is on January 5. Perdue, if he wins, or Ossoff if he doesn’t, will be sworn in without delay as soon as the winner is certified, or the day after or two, but that still takes a while. His promise to reject the Electors is geared toward ignorance.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  208. But evidently she still has a link to Trump. We don’t know through whom.

    Either Flynn (he was there too), or the adrenochrome trafficking network, or both, would be my guess.

    nk (1d9030)

  209. Kishnevi! You’ve been missed. You good?

    nk (1d9030)

  210. the adrenochrome trafficking network = ?

    And then maybe there’s Stephen Miller, but it’s all guesswork.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  211. Nice to see you too, kishnevi. I hope you are well and staying healthy. I remember that you are at a bit higher-risk for the virus. Please have happy and peaceful Christmas. And may you remain in good health.

    Dana (cc9481)

  212. We have absolutely no data how well these vaccines will work once in general use.

    These are fundamentally different kinds of vaccines, the first synthesized “messenger RNA” vaccines that do not use the actual virus as their base.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  213. Carl Sagan:

    “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

    Fact check: True

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  214. 204. The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c) — 12/20/2020 @ 6:26 pm

    We have absolutely no data how well these vaccines will work once in general use.

    There is data, because they tested it out on tens of thousands of people, giving it to half, and pretending to give it to the other half, and waiting until there was a rose in cases – mathematically necessary in order for the FDA to approve the vaccine, because it was not considered ethical to give anybody challenge tests, or a valid proof that it worked to measure antibodies but they had to wait until thousands more got sick and died – science uber alles.

    And any attempt by the Trump administration to skip more steps was considered political interference and the Democrats (notably Andrew Cuomo and Kamala Harris plus many “scientists” were out there pre-emptively with their accusations and stated suspicions.

    Now they expect people to turn around on a dime because the Great and Powerful Food and Drug Administration has said yes to the vaccine – not rushing things too much including with scheduling meetings.

    They took their time with meetings too. It took an angry call from the White House and a @realdonaldtrump tweet to get the FDA to approve the Pfizer vaccine on a Friday night, instead of a Saturday morning, as planned. (Maybe they were afraid of a double cross, or maybe they just wanted to get started on shipping or maybe they didn’t know about the Saturday meeting.)

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  215. Now there are some things about which they have no data. That doesn’t stop the powers that be from making recommendatons, almost uniformly, that people take the vaccine.

    No data on:

    How useful or even free from side effects (that could be caused by ramping up the immune system too much) the vaccine is:

    A) For people who already had Covid

    AND

    B) For pregnant women.

    AND

    C) For people under age 16.

    ….because they were excluded from the clinical trial.

    For A and B they say take the vaccine anyway and for C they say no. What kind of “science” is this?

    There are also some people who get anaphylactic shock, and what the recommendation is there is that anybody that carried around an Epi-Pen, or should should not take the vaccine even if they are willing and there is medical attention standing by.

    They recommend that everybody stay near emergency help for 15 minutes and people who have a record of allergies (but not enough to need an Epi-pen?) stick around for 30 minutes.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  216. In the meantime, something much better in the immediate term – monoclonal neutralizing antibodies – that does for real what Trump once suggested bleach might do – is getting no attention, so even though approved Finally and distributed to the states it’s not being used much and patients have to tell their doctors to use them.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-of-face-the-nation-on-december-20-2020

    DAVID RICKS (Chairman & CEO OF Eli Lilly and Company): Good morning, Margaret.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: We wanted to talk to you about your treatment with monoclonal antibodies because we learned this week that while taxpayers have purchased about a billion dollars of it to treat patients only a fraction of it is actually being used and we’re in the throes of a crisis. Why isn’t this being prescribed more?

    DAVID RICKS: Well, it’s– it’s disappointing news that we heard as well. I can tell you that across the country we’ve shipped and distributed broadly the monoclonal antibody from Lilly. And then in our clinical studies, it reduces the risk of hos– hospitalization by about seventy percent. So, it’s very important that those eligible talk to their doctor about getting this therapy. What we have seen, though, is differences in how different states and different hospital systems have chosen to act. Some really good cases where it’s quite easy when your doctor recommends us to get the infusion. It’s an infusion. It takes about two hours. And we’ve seen cases where there’s been little or no action. So it’s important people know to ask their doctor if they’re a candidate for this therapy.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: And when you say infusion, you mean someone has to go and get hooked up to an IV to treat it?

    DAVID RICKS: Correct, yeah.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: But I want to follow up on something you just said, because it’s similar to what the Trump administration has said over the course of this week, which seems to put the onus on the patient to tell their doctor what to prescribe them. That’s not usually the doctor-patient relationship. If we accept that’s the premise and it’s our job to tell the doctor to prescribe us, how soon are they supposed to ask for it?

    DAVID RICKS: Well, I’m not suggesting it’s only the patient’s responsibility. So, let me come back to that. But the drug is indicated in the first ten days after a positive PCR-test, a– a confirmation you have COVID-19. And within that ten-day period, you could receive the infusion. And it’s been shown to reduce symptoms, reduce the viral load and keep people out of the hospital. But we’re also communicating with– with hospital systems and states because this is an emergency use authorization, unlike other approvals for drugs as a manufacturer, it’s– it’s not our role to go promote this.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

    DAVID RICKS: So we’re working through government channels to do that. And as I said, it’s quite variable. There’s some great examples, but there’s also some areas of the country where it doesn’t seem to be available when it actually is.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. And it’s sitting on the shelves we know because–

    DAVID RICKS: Yeah.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: –Operation Warp Speed has said there are about sixty-five thousand doses that go out each week, five to twenty percent of it’s actually being used.

    DAVID RICKS: Mm-Hm.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: And this is– these are therapeutics that American taxpayers already bought. So–

    DAVID RICKS: Correct.

    Of course if it did get used more it might not be possible to approve any more vaccines under the FDA’s standards because a lost nobody getting the placebo would get hospitalized. Don’t think the neutralizing antibodies haven’t been underplayed for that reason.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  217. They skipped some steps, or overlapped them.

    They did did two big things in that regard – start with Stage 3 trials before Stage 2 were completed and order vaccines on spec – not as much as Pfizer wanted because the Trump Administration was hedging its bets and ordering or being prepared to order other vaccines in the pipeline.

    But, mathematically, it may be hard to get more than three vaccines approved because cases of Covid will go down if people are vaccinated and there won’t be enough people getting the placebo who get sick (and even die) to prove that the vaccine works by the FDA’s standards.

    Of course they could try it out in other countries, but there too cases might go down and then the FDA wants ethnic balance among the test population.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  218. I am not sure what is tthe official justification for vaccinating members of Congress so far ahead f most other people. I think some people getting vaccinated mad up their own, like it’s bad to go first and they can show people their body is where their mouth is.

    Or maybe that Congress is a hot spot.

    AOC got vaccinated and reported soreness in the arms and fatiugue but she argued:

    1) You get soreness from any vaccines

    2) She is maybe tired anyway because Congress has been working long hours.

    Always spinning.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  219. More unanswered questions about the vaccine:

    Isn’t one dose sufficient? Even if immunity could be improved by a second shot, is there anything special about 17-21 day waiting period?

    And, is it really best policy to keep half the doses in reserve for the second shot? More is constantly being manufactured anyway.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  220. Rapheal Warnock has been accused of being anti-Israel. Raphael Warnock isn’t anti-Israel, He’s a fraud.

    But that certain kinds of frauds wold find it to be in their interest to be anti-Israel is a bad thing – also he would want to maintain some or all of his connections.

    Another question is why the Democratic Party lets frauds do so well. Probably because nobody as to defend their position – but just go along.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)


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