Trump Camp: More Than Enough Time To Right The Wrong of Fraudulent Election
[guest post by Dana]
An “alternate” slate of electors from an alternate reality:
President Trump’s allies are preparing to send an “alternate” slate of electors to Congress, senior White House adviser Stephen Miller said Monday, signaling Trump will drag out his efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election even after the Electoral College certifies Joe Biden as the winner.
Miller, appearing on Fox News as a senior adviser to the Trump campaign, brushed off the idea that the Electoral College vote marked any kind of end to the process.
“The only date in the Constitution is Jan. 20. So we have more than enough time to right the wrong of this fraudulent election result and certify Donald Trump as the winner of the election,” Miller said on “Fox & Friends.”
“As we speak, today, an alternate slate of electors in the contested states is going to vote and we’re going to send those results up to Congress,” he continued. “This will ensure that all of our legal remedies remain open. That means that if we win these cases in the courts, that we can direct that the alternate state of electors be certified.”
More:
Miller indicated that Trump supporters will act as “alternates” in a handful of contested states, including Georgia, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, to submit their own, unofficial results. Should the Trump campaign succeed in overturning the outcome in any of those states, Miller said, the alternate electors could then be recognized by Congress.
Clearly, Trump has no plans to accept the election loss, even after today’s proceedings. Which leads me to this:
Ardent Trump supporters deserve credit for their loyalty through thick and thin. But he is taking them for a ride with these frivolous election lawsuits, none more baseless than the one described here. https://t.co/CSPtXhETqf
— Brit Hume (@brithume) December 14, 2020
But do ardent Trump supporters really deserve credit for their loyalty through the “thick and thin”? Or has their support only helped to enable an unhinged president not to accept an election loss? Has their loyalty further compelled him to dangerously plow ahead with the destructive undermining of a presidential election?
For the sake of this post, I’m focusing only on post-election activities. And what I see is that the President has dragged the country through a miserable and delusional slog by refusing to accept the election results. And to those “ardent supporters,” the truth is, he isn’t concerned about you, he is concerned and consumed by his own bruised ego. It’s a strange symbiotic relationship that Trump and his ardent supporters have. He plays them by tapping into their anger and resentment for feeling dismissed by the political class, and they, in turn, offer fealty to him, convinced that only he fights for them. There is as much chance of changing their minds as there is of convincing Trump that he lost the election bigly. This willingness to surrender all common sense and reason, and render oneself deaf and blind on his behalf is the proverbial indescribable gift to Trump. He continues to pull in a substantial financial haul from his loyal subjects as he keeps them hanging on to his every promise to overturn the election results and convinces them that they are once again being ignored by the political elite. And now, judging from President Trump’s sidekick Steven Miller’s comments, we know that they will continue on the same fruitless and deluded path until at least January 20. That the President has now seen almost 60 lawsuits tossed by the courts makes no difference.
I am going to say firmly and without hesitation that, no, his “ardent supporters” do not deserve credit. Their “ardent support” has enabled a self-consumed toddler-in-chief to indulge a dug-in refusal to accept reality. I would even go so far as to suggest that they are indirectly complicit in helping to drag our nation through Trump’s worst temper tantrum as he undermines democracy and attempts to disenfranchise voters with an endless string of baseless claims of fraud and conspiracy.
And don’t even get me started on the complicity and enabling of Trump by the spineless GOP members of Congress….
Stephen Miller on Fox & Friends says "an alternative" group of electors is also voting today:
"As we speak, an alternate slate of electors in the contested states is going to vote and we are going to send those results to Congress."pic.twitter.com/5kIkfsbOFw
— Travis Akers (@travisakers) December 14, 2020
–Dana
Enough already.
Dana (cc9481) — 12/14/2020 @ 10:34 amThank you for the well written and interesting post. I think you’re too kind here. Let me offer a revision.
I am going to say firmly and without hesitation that his “ardent supporters” deserve to watch a wealthy con man squander and misuse their donations. Their “ardent support” has enabled a self-consumed toddler-in-chief to indulge a dug-in refusal to accept reality. I would even go so far as to suggest that they are indirectly complicit in helping to seriously damager our democracy and strengthen autocrats around the world in their support of Trump’s worst temper tantrum as he undermines democracy and attempts to disenfranchise voters with an endless string of baseless claims of fraud and conspiracy.
Time123 (b0628d) — 12/14/2020 @ 10:41 amHeh. I only have so much energy to rail, Time123… And honestly, my greatest ire is reserved for those GOP legislators who cannot find their backbones in spite of the disgusting slog we are being dragged through.
Dana (cc9481) — 12/14/2020 @ 10:50 amWe need A Little List. Stephen Miller should be near the top, of course, but not much farther down should be any members of Congress who challenge the Electoral College vote on January 6. And they never will be missed, they never will be missed.
nk (1d9030) — 12/14/2020 @ 10:57 amWell, through January 6.
Trump needs to have an alternative slate of Electors in order to leave open the possibility that Congress could overturn the election results. That doesn’t mean he won’t abandon this before – he could but he’s at least raising money with this – more than he raised during the election campaign – so he probably won’t stop unless the polls turn badly against him.
What remains to be seen is how much of the Republican Party in Congress he is going to drag along with him. If he succeeds in splintering the Republican Party that might be a good thing.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/14/2020 @ 11:02 amIt bears repeating: What Trump has done since the election is worse than the sum total of everything he did before the election.
norcal (670733) — 12/14/2020 @ 11:24 amThey do not deserve credit for their blind fealty. Particularly not if they actually have the brain power to have noticed that Trump is first and foremost “concerned and consumed by his own bruised ego.”
I’m gobsmacked that so many people simply refuse to admit the most obvious fact about Donald Trump — his obsession with getting his ego stroked. If they do somewhat recognize it, they’ll claim it doesn’t matter or it’s even a good thing if it motivates him to implement this or that policy.
Problem is: the policy will always take second place to ego. So will rule of law and established democratic processes and concern for the nation’s good, not to mention honesty and decency.
Radegunda (20775b) — 12/14/2020 @ 11:27 am@6 — Yes, and it should be enough to make at least the “Trump intellectuals” realize that the anti-Trumpers had a point.
Radegunda (20775b) — 12/14/2020 @ 11:31 amWhere are they voting at? Did they all meet at Denny’s, and will be voting after finishing their Grand Slam breakfast?
Or did they just gather on the steps outside the capitol building (because security will not let them into the building)?
And how will this vote get ‘sent to congress’ exactly? Because we know that the US Mail is rigged and fraudulent and cannot be trusted to handle important election matters…
Fedex? UPS? Plain white van? Twitter? Parler?
I voted third party, and so am now feeling very disenfranchised because I don’t have my own slate of alternative electors voting today. Who do I sue?
Glenn (a56320) — 12/14/2020 @ 11:32 amSF @5-
…..so he probably won’t stop unless the polls turn badly against him.
What polls show him ahead (of whatever)?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2020 @ 11:34 amSF @ 5-
Answered my own question.
Fox News Voter Analysis: Trump sees strong support from base as moderates back Biden
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2020 @ 11:38 am“I voted third party, and so am now feeling very disenfranchised because I don’t have my own slate of alternative electors voting today.”
Create your own slate of electors! It will be just as valid as the one these guys created.
Davethulhu (431e91) — 12/14/2020 @ 11:51 amSo will the 126 Congressmen who signed the amicus brief in TX v. PA all vote to disapprove the official electors and instead approve Trump’s electors?
If not, then they are rank hypocrites who should be driven from public office.
If so, then Jan. 6 will be very interesting, and not in a good way.
aphrael (4c4719) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:01 pmTrump tells allies he will run in 2024, but hints he may back out
Donald Trump doesn’t need to run for president again. He just needs everyone to think he is.
The president’s recent discussions with those around him reveal that he sees his White House comeback deliberations as a way to earn the commodity he needs most after leaving office: attention.
……
Essentially, at this point, Trump appears just as interested in people talking about a Trump 2024 campaign as he is in actually launching a real campaign, even if he may ultimately turn his flirtation into a serious bid, according to interviews with 11 Republicans who worked for Trump or helped in his two races.
Formally running for president would mean a lot of things aides say Trump doesn’t want to deal with: financial disclosure forms, building campaign infrastructure, the possibility of losing again. But simply teasing a presidential run — without actually filing the paperwork or erecting a campaign — gets Trump the attention he needs for the next two years.
Attention will help sustain his business, parts of which lost millions of dollars while he was in office. Attention will help pay off his debts, which will need to be paid off in the coming years. Attention will help discredit his investigators, who are examining whether Trump illegally inflated his assets.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:05 pm……
“He will be astounded at how irrelevant a president becomes after losing reelection. Ask Jimmy Carter. Ask George H.W. Bush,” said presidential historian Michael Beschloss. “They become aware they are unable to affect things the way they had become accustomed to.”
…..
While loyalty is generally considered a good quality, blind loyalty is not.
An “alternative slate” is a bunch of people using “alternative facts” to create their own bubble of “alternative reality”. Generally speaking I believe that the psychology field recommends either: drugs if the phenomenon is naturally internally produced or severe lack of drugs if the phenomenon is is produced via chemical consumption. Colloquially I believe the appropriate phrase might be: Are they on crack?!
Nic (896fdf) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:06 pmI really have no praise to give those that “ardently support” Donald Trump per se. Not because it’s a lost cause, but because it’s a bad cause. Maybe not as bad as those who ardently support Communism, the Confederacy, segregation or the Nazis, but bad enough.
This extends to those who propose Deep State conspiracy theories and the like, not because they are impossible to execute, but because they are impossible to keep quiet.
It’s time to give this up.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:11 pmBenjamins! They’re on Benjamins. The scam will continue for as long as the donations pour in. I imagine Stephen leader will be drawing a salary from Trump’s leadership PAC when he stops getting the government check.
nk (1d9030) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:13 pmOTOH, there are those who worry falsely cast absentee ballots, as the process was pretty loose. Myself, I think that cheating that system is possible, on some level, without a conspiracy, and would like the casting of “mail” ballots made secure. It is not now.
The entire system rests on the completely subjective matching of signatures, which any fair analysis would show is unlikely to be accurate. See “Ripe for Error” (LA Times, Oct 28, 2000). A simple way to influence an election is for some county election officials to have looser rules for matching than others, or even some examiners deciding by themselves to approve more ballots than normal. “Count every vote” attitudes being more prevalent among liberals that conservatives, this could have a biasing effect.
Without aiming at changing results in this election, we should find better ways to determine the provenance of ballots than trying to decide, using the Mark 1 eyeball, if the signature on a ballot envelope matches a 20 year old signature.
Even thumbprints would be better, as they are machine comparable and do not change over time.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:20 pmFake electors try to deliver Arizona’s 11 votes for Trump
In another sign of the lingering unrest over President Donald Trump’s election loss, an Arizona group sent the National Archives in Washington, D.C., notarized documents last week intended to deliver, wrongly, the state’s 11 electoral votes for him.
Copies of the documents obtained by The Arizona Republic show a group that claimed to represent the “sovereign citizens of the Great State of Arizona” submitted signed papers casting votes for what they want: a second term for Trump and Vice President Mike Pence.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:21 pm……
The 11 electors actually chosen by Arizona voters last month — meeting in an unpublicized location because of security concerns over their task — cast their votes Monday for President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris, formalizing the Democrats’ victory nationally and in the state.
……
“Ripe for Error” (LA Times, Oct 28, 2020).
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:22 pmBack in 1876, there were 4 states (OR, FL, SC, and LA) that sent two sets of votes. Since it was not easily determined which set was authentic, a commission had to be appointed to sort it out. I think we can avoid that this time.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:26 pmThe 11 electors actually chosen by Arizona voters last month — meeting in an unpublicized location because of security concerns over their task — cast their votes Monday for President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris, formalizing the Democrats’ victory nationally and in the state.
Trump should be sent to Gitmo for life just for this.
nk (1d9030) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:27 pmTrump will go down as the sorest loser in American history, worse than the Marino-kidnapping transvestite Ray Finkle.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:31 pmI find it odd that the Trump supporters demand to hear the facts when it comes to the past election but during the impeachment they brushed away any facts being brought to light as irrelevant.
Obviously Robert Moses was right when he said: “They say they want the truth exploited but it must be their truth, couched in their words,in the hands of their people and achieved by their methods.”
Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:41 pm9. Glenn (a56320) — 12/14/2020 @ 11:32 am
It’s not were they met. They can meet anywhere they agree to, so long as it iswithin the booundaries of the state they are from.
It’s who appointed them.
Miller’s Electors don’t have a vote by the state legislature, certificate from the Governor, – anything, unless they are the Republican candidates for Elector in the November 3 2020 election and can claim to have been elected then. But I don’t think all of the candidates would go along.
So are they going to rely on some rule for filling vacancies? Or just the idea that Congress can decide arbitrarily who are the Electors?
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:51 pmStephen Miller.
If ever a man looked, on the outside, like he does on the inside. A greasy and sinister little man.
noel (9fead1) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:53 pm18. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:20 pm
Sidney Powell claimed at one point, in passing, that they used to use thumbprints.
Really?
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:57 pmEven when they get all that, as in GA, if they don’t like the results they make up new lies. The latest I heard was that the Sec State of GA had been threatened with harm to his children if he didn’t support Biden. So nothing he said could be believed now.
They’ve become flat earth proponents.
Time123 (b4d075) — 12/14/2020 @ 12:58 pmDo do you guys square this story?
https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/12/12/antrim-county-judge-release-election-results-dominion/6520916002/
Here’s the court filing:
https://www.depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michigan_forensics_report_%5B121320%5D_v2_%5Bredacted%5D.pdf
No idea who these guys are, but this is waaaaaaay more information than even the President’s own attorneys.
whembly (c30c83) — 12/14/2020 @ 1:08 pmOff topic, but horrifying-
White House Official Recovers From Severe Covid-19, Friend Says
A White House official who fell ill with Covid-19 in September is recovering after three months in the hospital, though he lost his right foot and lower leg in his battle against the virus, according to a friend.
Crede Bailey, the director of the White House security office, was the most severely ill among dozens of Covid-19 cases known to be connected to the White House. Bailey’s family has asked the White House not to publicize his condition, and President Donald Trump has never publicly acknowledged his illness.
…….
“Crede beat COVID-19 but it came at a significant cost: his big toe on his left foot as well as his right foot and lower leg had to be amputated,” Dawn McCrobie, who organized the GoFundMe effort for Bailey, wrote Dec. 7.
…….
“His family has staggering medical bills from a hospital stay of 2+ months and still counting in the ICU and a long road ahead in rehab before he can go home,” McCrobie wrote Nov. 13, when she created the account. “When he does make it home there will be major changes necessary to deal with his new, and permanent, disability.”
……
“His house will need to be renovated to accommodate his disability; ramps to get in/out of the house, the bathroom shower will have to be modified, handrails will have to be installed, etc. etc.,” she wrote.
He’ll also need a new vehicle that can accommodate a wheelchair and that can be modified so the gas pedal can be operated with Bailey’s left leg, she wrote. “I could go on and on but you get the picture – there are a lot of adjustments ahead!”
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2020 @ 1:14 pm>>>>>>>>>
The GoFundMe account set up by Ms. McCrobie has raised more than $30,000. “The White House declined to say whether Trump has contributed to the effort.”
Trump’s only play at this point is to make the remaining weeks as miserable as possible for the nation. And he will do that because he seriously believes he has been severely wronged. He will sow confusion, he will act even more impulsively and rashly than before, and he will get retribution on those he believes deserve it. He has a busy few weeks ahead of him.
Dana (cc9481) — 12/14/2020 @ 1:25 pmI agree that Trump’s sense of self pity and grievance are clearly driving his behavior. But let’s not forget his financial self-interest. Continuing to get money from his fans depends on their continuing to believe that he was 1)rightfully reelected, 2) was wronged by the Evil People and 3) is continuing to fight. Why else would he need their money?
So he will continue to “fight”, i.e. tweet and come up with outlandish theories as to how he might succeed until Jan. 20, and then continue afterwards with vague promises about 2022 or 2024 or some “audit” of the election which will show he really won and thus Biden will be impeached and Harris will be impeached and ….somehow he’ll be back in office (don’t sweat the details).
Trump is master of one art, and that is profiting from his grievances, and he will continue to practice that art until he keels over with a stroke or chokes on a stale overcooked hamburger.
Victor (a225f9) — 12/14/2020 @ 1:44 pmThe WaPo mocks:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/12/14/president-trump-has-become-delusional-character-out-monty-python
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/14/2020 @ 1:47 pm@29, that’s interesting and I’d love to see what they find. My understanding is that there hasn’t been a ruling or a response yet. Deeper in the report they do acknowledge that the clerk had a software update they didn’t do and i couldn’t see how much of that they they felt was to blame.
One thing to keep in mind is that this is a rural, GOP run county that Trump won pretty handily.
Time123 (b0628d) — 12/14/2020 @ 1:49 pmElectoral vote count:
Total votes
Biden 247
Trump 232
Of the 59 remaining votes for Biden, 55 will come from California (Hawaii has the remaining 9).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2020 @ 2:01 pm@33 LMAO, Kevin! That’s such a fitting analogy!
norcal (670733) — 12/14/2020 @ 2:10 pmRepublican electors in Pennsylvania, Georgia cast votes for Trump, hoping for court victories
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2020 @ 2:11 pm……
The Pennsylvania GOP said in a press release that the Trump campaign asked the Republican electors to do this in order to preserve any potential rights to legal challenges that could overturn Monday’s vote. The Trump campaign and other Republicans have claimed that elections in states including Pennsylvania and Georgia ran afoul of state laws, compromising the ballot counts.
…..
At roughly the same time, Republican electors in Georgia also cast votes for Trump, while Democrats cast the state’s official electoral votes for Biden.
@30 Trump ought to pay all his medical bills, since it was probably Trump’s disregard for safety that caused him to get the virus in the 1st place.
Nic (896fdf) — 12/14/2020 @ 2:16 pm“But let’s not forget his financial self-interest”
I think this is the biggest driver of Trump’s actions….setting up the next grift. He knows it’s over…but creating drama means people will get sucked in…..and will amplify and spread his outrage. The collective will then be ripe to be plucked for whatever he needs them to do next.
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 12/14/2020 @ 2:31 pmHave some sympathy for Trump’s true believers. They are akin to cult members.
Have any of you seen The Vow, HBO’s documentary series about the NXIVM cult? It’s riveting. At a certain point one of the people who left the cult, and who was seemingly embarrassed he had ever participated in it, stated, “Nobody joins a cult.” It took me a moment to grasp his meaning. He meant that people join a movement they think is benevolent. They don’t see it as a cult. They think they have the truth on their side, and the rest of the world is unenlightened.
This documentary shows in heartbreaking detail just how hard it is to persuade people to leave a cult. I fear it may be just as hard to convince die-hard Trump followers that they are in a cult.
Mocking cult members is fun, but it might not be the best method of changing their minds. I believe people are more readily swayed when they first feel that others genuinely care about them, and are seeking to understand them.
norcal (670733) — 12/14/2020 @ 2:36 pmThere is no swaying the die hard Trump cultists.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2020 @ 2:40 pm@41 I believe they can be swayed, but it won’t be easy or quick.
norcal (670733) — 12/14/2020 @ 2:46 pmBig rat Barr is fleeing the sinking USS Trump, getting out before Christmas.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 12/14/2020 @ 2:58 pmFor weeks, the Trump campaign said the electoral college vote would decide the election
Two days after the final two swing states certified their vote, Trump campaign senior adviser Lara Trump appeared on Fox Business Network.
“Certifications are really just a procedural step,” Lara Trump said on Dec. 2. “The reality is the electors do not vote in each state until Dec. 14. The state legislatures each have the opportunity to delegate, you know, where they want those electoral votes headed.”
As President Trump and his allies have sought to challenge and overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election, his officials have at times pointed to the Dec. 14 electoral college vote as the de facto deadline for its challenges. You can watch examples of this in the video above.
“[The] electoral college is how you do or don’t win,” former White House counselor Kellyanne Conway said on Nov. 5.
“We’re going to be going through all of these [alleged issues in swing states],” Trump campaign senior adviser Jason Miller said on Nov. 9. “So when the electoral college gets together to certify this election, the American people can have full confidence in its outcome.”
“Let’s remember that the electoral college, which is our constitutional process, does not vote until Dec. 14,” Trump campaign senior legal adviser Jenna Ellis said on Nov. 24. “We have plenty of time to pursue all legal options.”
On Monday, the electoral college was poised to elect Joe Biden.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/14/2020 @ 3:06 pm…….
Glad they agreed. Miller is goal post shifting.
But there are some in the MAGAsphere that really know better than the crap they peddle, and have less than honorable motives.
Also contemptible are the elected officeholders(including those in Congress) that played along with that #stopthesteal nonsense.
@43 I agree completely. I don’t count those two groups as Trump’s true believers.
norcal (670733) — 12/14/2020 @ 3:08 pmThat was before President Trump got it. He didn’t get the.antibodies – probably not even hydroxychloroquine, or the now obscure ivermectin
People at the White House – maybe only in high positions – were supposed to get the vaccine early on the theory of continuity of government, but when that leaked to the press, President Trump reversed that – no favoritism.
In his interview at the Army Navy game Saturday, besides talking about how he won big etc, President Trump claimed that if it hadn’t been for him, it would have taken five years till they got a vaccine but they did it in one. (it was said that under normal procedures it would take four years or four years was the record – Trump added one year.)
He didn’t do everything super fast. South Korea developed and gor out a Covid est in about two weeks.
Trump also compared Attorney General William Barr unfavorably to Robert Mueller. He said that when it was falsely reported that there was some specific investigation of him, Mueller corrected the record, but Barr did not correct the record when it was falsely reported that Hunter Biden was not under investigation. He said Joe Biden claimed all was right during a debate. Of course the difference is, in Mueller’s case he was denying an investigation and not revealing any confidential information, but what Barr didn’t do was confirm one. A different thing.
Today Barr met with Trump and submitted his resignation effective Wednesday December 23. Which was more or less his original intention.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/14/2020 @ 3:32 pmI wonder if the Trump team is counting how many times he’s lost this same election. He has to hold some kind of record, right? Man who lost the same presidential election the most times consecutively or something.
Nic (896fdf) — 12/14/2020 @ 3:41 pm@44
NCIS Special Agent Gibbs says there’s no coincidence…
Allapundit seems to think this is more to do with pardoning the likes of Snowden and Assange, than anything else, as Barr *is* an institutionalist to the end. It’s a sound theory…
Or Occam’s Razor is simply that Barr wanted to spend more time with his family (and allowing his deputies serve out the remaining term with resume building titles).
whembly (c30c83) — 12/14/2020 @ 4:02 pmJoe Biden will speak to the nation at about 7:30 pm eastern time. It will be broadcast on CS (and presumbably other places)
The media already has his prepared text.
He will speak about unity.
Although not about his trying to cancel a Wall Street Journal op-ed writer who criticized Jill Biden for using the title Dr – which is now supposed to be anti-woman. (The Wall street Journal on;y uses the title doctor for medical doctors)
His old university removed him from their list of former teachers.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/14/2020 @ 4:25 pmThe op-ed piece was incredibly rude and the author of it ought to be ashamed.
The argument that ‘Dr’ should be reserved for medical doctors is a fine argument, don’t get me wrong, and any lawyer who runs around insisting that they be called ‘Doctor’ has a problem.
But the op-ed piece referred to Jill Biden as ‘kiddo’, which is a condescending term when used in this context and is not a reasonable word to use as a term of address for an adult stranger.
aphrael (4c4719) — 12/14/2020 @ 4:43 pmFrom the Wall Street Journal
“ Dr. Hawking’s health had been deteriorating in recent years. In 2015, he canceled a series of lectures because of poor health. In 2009, he was hospitalized due to an infection.”
I found that in about 5 minutes. I’m sure I can find more instances of them using the “Dr” title for non-medical doctors. Has anyone ever written an opt-ed about why we shouldn’t call him “Dr” Stephen Hawking?
Manataur (0c90cd) — 12/14/2020 @ 4:45 pmWhen you hear ‘Dr. Jill Biden’– just think ‘Dr. William Henry Cosby, Jr.’ kiddos.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/14/2020 @ 4:55 pm@50. He will speak about unity.
He =cough= spoke =cough= with =cough==cough= a =cough= frog in his =cough==cough= throat, in=cough=stead.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/14/2020 @ 5:00 pmStephen Hawking is not usually called Doctor in the Wall Street Journal, or in ordinary speech.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/stephen-hawking-review-farsighted-and-stubborn-11599230553
After that, the Wall Street Journal does not use an honorific.
Thw New York Times always does for the second and further uses in an article, and if someone is aDr. it ever uses Mr.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/14/obituaries/stephen-hawking-dead.html
I think the Wall Street Journal uses honorifics less frequently.
The Wall Street Journal claimed in an editorial today:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-biden-team-strikes-back-11607900812
But that may be true only for the editorial page.
I think Joseph Epstein used the word “kiddo” to illustrate extreme informality (Joe Biden used that expression about his wife) – the polar opposite of Dr. with the idea that one was as reasonable as the other. It was satire.
More often you would expect to see Ph.D. appended to the end of the name if a person is a Ph.D or you’d see it almost only in a job related or academic context or in any case where it is clear a person is not a medical doctor. I think it is confusing where the context is not known. You’d think she was a medical doctor.
Jill Biden went after her degree, according to Joe Biden, because she didn’t want to get mail addressed to Sen. and Mrs. Biden and wanted to see some mail that said Dr. and Sen. Biden
In any case the attack on the article was way of an overreaction, and false. It should just have been ignored if they didn’t want to listen to him.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/14/2020 @ 5:22 pm54. Joe Biden delivered an excellent speech, mostly about how many people stood up for democracy. I heard that cough. You might think he had the virus except that it doesn’t sound like that. It sounds like he some water maybe got into the wrong tube. It was not a cough like a cold.
If it was a cold, there’s a one in four chance it could be the cowpox version of the virus but that is probably stronger.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/14/2020 @ 5:28 pmOne Senator after another (or at least Senators Blunt, Ernst and Thune) are congratulating Biden and saying this is over and the House Republican leadership is said to be hoping that not one Senator will object tp any of the Electoral votes on January 6 so they can avoid having to vote.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/14/2020 @ 5:32 pmSammy Finkelman — an *actual majority* of the women I interact with on a regular basis experienced that article as being the kind of condescension which they regularly encounter from strangers in their professional lives. The “satire” argument doesn’t hold water.
aphrael (4c4719) — 12/14/2020 @ 5:56 pmFrom my perspective, the journal allowed someone to be an absolute asshole to the wife of a public figure for no apparent or justifiable reason. the editorial board ought to be ashamed of itself.
aphrael (4c4719) — 12/14/2020 @ 5:57 pmThe use of the word kiddo was satire on the title of Dr.
It began “Madame First Lady – Mrs. Biden – Jill – kiddo”
I think the problem was caused by Joe Biden using the word Dr with the accent on the wrong syllable. It should be on the first syllable of the word Doctor when someone is not a medical doctor.
There is also the relative accent of words. It was maybe not placing the accent on the word Doctor. When someone is a medical doctor you place the accent on the name that follows. That is what Joe Biden did, It sounded like he was making his wife into Abigail Bartlet, M.D.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/14/2020 @ 6:09 pmMy own view is that elevating the minor perceived hypocrisies or pretensions of Democrats to the level of major editorials is just the right wing’s way of saying that the last four years never really happened and they can go back to the way things were. It’s the Dijon mustard/tan suit scandal of the day.
It’s probably a good thing in the sense that we are now going back to our usual level of pundit crap. It has the pleasing feel of normalcy after some weird times. It’s sad in the sense that no lessons have really been learned.
Victor (a225f9) — 12/14/2020 @ 6:20 pm“You will have so much winning you will be tired of winning” ……Dotard Trump
So how’s all those law suit winning coming jerkweed?
Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313) — 12/14/2020 @ 6:35 pm@50
It may well be an editorial page only policy, as I found numerous other non-MDs referred to as Dr. by the journal.
(Neil deGrasse Tyson for example).
Regardless I think the Dr. title is used often enough for non-MDs that this instance just came off as petty. I defiantly agree with you when the Dr title is used to mislead and convey a medical pedigree that does not exist (Dr. Laura, Dr Phil), but that doesn’t seem to be the case here.
Manataur (0c90cd) — 12/14/2020 @ 6:53 pmIs Joseph Epstein related to Jeffrey Epstein?
nk (1d9030) — 12/14/2020 @ 7:37 pmOur local school superintendent and some principals have been “Doctors” with Ph.D.s. We refer to them that way and address them that way. BTW, why is the Wall Street Journal still even in print? They’d sell out in five minutes when I ran my newsstand, but that was in the ’70s. We have internet now.
nk (1d9030) — 12/14/2020 @ 7:55 pmJoe Biden delivered an excellent speech, mostly about how many people stood up for democracy. I heard that cough.
Static + cough = noise.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/14/2020 @ 8:00 pm@65 I have had several EdDs and PhDs in various places above me in my district, and even a teacher or two. They are always Dr. Lastname for formal address.
Nic (896fdf) — 12/14/2020 @ 8:28 pmhttps://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2020/12/14/watch-michigan-electoral-college-begins-black-national-anthem/
Nothing to see here.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/14/2020 @ 8:28 pmReally, Mr. O’Reilly?
nk (1d9030) — 12/14/2020 @ 8:41 pmhttps://justthenews.com/government/congress/pressley-cancelling-student-debt-matter-racial-and-economic-justice
Just for you nk.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/14/2020 @ 9:00 pmI think all student loan debt should be forgiven, NJRob. I said it back during the Democratic primaries, when Patterico ran a survey on which Democrat we agreed with most. It was the only thing I agreed with Bernie on. I think it has been proven mostly a fraud on the kids to feed the academic racket, and the government who got them in the dance should now pay the piper.
In return, I don’t want any student loans at all. If we want to help poor but smart kids, we should have a competitive system of scholarships and grants, based on academic merit and national need to promote progress in the arts and sciences.
nk (1d9030) — 12/14/2020 @ 9:39 pmAnd I already know the counter-argument. “Well, how about all the people who paid back their debt?” (Which would include me and everybody I know just so you know.) My answer is: Things change. I have a smallpox vaccination scar on my arm, and had to lease my wall phone from AT&. Now nobody gets the scar and we have cellphones. It’s a good thing for the younger generation to be better off than the older one.
nk (1d9030) — 12/14/2020 @ 9:47 pm*AT&T*
nk (1d9030) — 12/14/2020 @ 9:48 pmI don’t agree with forgiving debt outright, but I could go along with allowing student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy, so long as the school is on the hook for half the discharged debt.
And maybe then the colleges won’t let people sign up for $150,000 in loans for useless degrees.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/14/2020 @ 9:51 pmDid you know that the student loan program started off with loans for certain majors only? STEM and languages, in the Cold War/Sputnik era. Then LBJ happened.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/14/2020 @ 9:53 pmPersonally, I don’t like being called Doctor, and think it should be reserved for medical doctors.
I try to passively discourage my undergraduate students from using it by referring to myself as “Professor,” since that’s my job title.
Graduate students are on a first-name basis, so it doesn’t come up.
Staff may or may not use first names (I encourage them to, but it’s their choice).
Dave (1bb933) — 12/14/2020 @ 11:52 pmThe resemblance to Putin may not be an accident.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/14/2020 @ 11:59 pmAre you seriously suggesting that Putin sent his infant son to America to be raised as a Russian sleeper agent by an average, every day American family, the Millers, and that he chose a family in Santa Monica, California, an affluent bastion of elite American liberalism, so young Stephen would be tormented daily by his classmates for his superior understanding of racial hierarchies, and mocked by all the pretty girls who inexplicably refused to have sex with him, all the better to fuel a vindictive rage that would forge Stephen into an unstoppable killing machine aimed at the heart of America’s most cherished democratic principles and institutions?
Because if that’s what you’re suggesting, I’m open to it.
lurker (d8c5bc) — 12/15/2020 @ 2:00 amNic (896fdf) — 12/14/2020 @ 8:28 pm
The principal of my elementary school was always called Dr. S.. I don;t know what the doctorate was for.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/15/2020 @ 3:57 amits obvious to anyone willing to do the analysis mr lurker
Dave (1bb933) — 12/15/2020 @ 5:49 amI would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Though I expect there would still be demand for degrees we think are a bad decision for employment. I think it’s more likely that schools would have to trim back many of the services they offer and the administrative cost that goes with it. Administrative cost in this case includes facilities and upkeep.
Time123 (441f53) — 12/15/2020 @ 5:54 amSpeaking of Putin:
Et tu, Vladimir?
Dave (1bb933) — 12/15/2020 @ 6:03 am… and DCSCA smiled.
lurker (d8c5bc) — 12/15/2020 @ 6:21 amThis is a bogus right-wing meme, like the Venezuelan Algorithm.
In 2018-19, UCI awarded 8,394 bachelor’s degrees. The numbers in non-traditional majors frequently derided by right-wing media:
Art History: 18
African-American Studies: 4
Asian-American Studies: 9
Chicano/Latino Studies: 20
Comparative Literature: 11
East-Asian Cultures: 19
Gender and Sexuality Studies: 12
Urban Studies: 46
Total: 139 out of 8394, or 1.7% of all degrees
I don’t accept the criticism that these degrees are a priori without merit, but even if you do, they are a negligible fraction of all degrees awarded.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/15/2020 @ 6:33 amAdministrative cost in this case includes facilities and upkeep.
If it also includes deanlets and deanlings, I could live with that.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/15/2020 @ 6:41 amWhat good is a BS in theoretical physics if you’re not in the top 5% of your class?
nk (1d9030) — 12/15/2020 @ 6:48 amWell, Dave, you are putting words in my mouth. Pretty sure I wasn’t talking about those subjects alone. Probably not UCI, either, which was my backup school way back when. Particularly since you can probably get three degrees at UCI for that $150K.
But…
There is very little call for non-academic jobs in an array of degrees, particularly in the humanities. While I would not want to see humanities degrees disappear entirely (and think there is a solid market for some, such as history and sociology. Even “urban studies.”), there are a lot of art and lit degrees that are best aimed at people who will not be relying on them for employment.
Can you tell me that you think it’s a good idea for a student (or a school) to encourage (or even allow) borrowing large sums for a degree where there is no direct employment with a B.A.?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/15/2020 @ 6:52 amWhat good is a BS in theoretical physics if you’re not in the top 5% of your class?
Because it will get you in the door in a lot of STEM jobs. You may not start at the same place as someone with a directly applicable degree, and then again it might. Digital signal processing systemes are a big field today, and having theoretical physics gives you a solid background there. Most of the work in information theory comes out of math and physics.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/15/2020 @ 6:58 am11% of UCI degrees are in psychology. Here’s a list of possible jobs. from the APA. Very few of thse will pay off a big loan any time soon.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:07 amFriend of mine got his undergrad in sociology. He went back for an MBA and is now an executive in charge of data science and research at a Billion+ company. He makes very good money.
The problem is how much the cost has risen. That’s in large part a function to the fixed costs colleges have added in the way of amenities.
Time123 (52fb0e) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:11 amBachelors degrees aren’t awarded in theoretical physics (four years isn’t enough to learn the math required).
We have two degrees: physics, and applied physics. The latter is a bit more flexible in regard to taking courses in engineering, chemistry, etc, and doesn’t require taking the full core physics curriculum (e.g. you can skip some E&M, or QM, or StatMech, depending on the field you plan to work in). It also requires two advanced labs instead of one. This is also the degree for teaching high-school physics.
But degrees in physics are among the most highly marketable there are, because you learn skills in demand in many different fields.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:13 amMy BS in physics from Harvey Mudd proved very marketable outside “physics” itself. Which was good, as I had no further interest in school at that point.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:17 amFriend of mine got his undergrad in sociology
Sociology is a perfectly fine subject, with a multitude of applications. Particularly marketing, business and government. As I said in #87.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:22 amI will note that Mudd required 10 semesters in a humanities minor for graduation. Mine was history.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:24 amPsychology is a good degree for management and administration, marketing, etc.
As you know perfectly well, the value of a degree depends entirely on the work ethic of the person receiving it.
I haven’t kept in touch with many undergraduate friends from Michigan (most of my friends who went to Michigan are in physics, but we didn’t overlap). One of my two closest friends, though, got a BS in Psychology at Michigan. Today she’s a VP of marketing at Kingston Technology, and lives in a very, very nice house, worth millions, at the Top of the World in Laguna Beach. She’s (obviously) very hard-working, and came from a family where that was expected.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:25 amThat’s impressive! I want to remain anonymous online. But I’ll bet you a beer that if you didn’t at least consider the school I went to you’ve heard of it and discarded it because of where it’s located.
Time123 (441f53) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:26 amA degree in any of those fields will get you into law or business school with the right [LSAT/GMAT/GRE] score.
lurker (d8c5bc) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:28 am@93, I missed your comment. I think most degrees impart skills that have real world application, even if only in the ability to read and write. I think the problem is that much of the cost in a degree today goes to things indirectly related to education.
Time123 (441f53) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:29 amPlenty of physics majors (and theoretical physics PhDs too) go on to work on Wall St, and do quite well for themselves.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:30 amPlenty as a proportion of Wall Streeters or plenty as a proportion of undergrads shelling out that average $38,000 a year just for tuition and fees?
nk (1d9030) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:36 amUCI (not to pick on Dave) has a reasonable in-state tuition of less that $14K. With any help whatsoever, you can get a 4 year degree there for less than $50K, probably much less. A Cal Grant can pretty much cut the four-year cost down to just room, board and books.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:38 amPlenty of physics majors (and theoretical physics PhDs too) go on to work on Wall St, and do quite well for themselves.
Anything with higher math, statistics, and requiring an understanding of 2nd Law.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:40 amThis is incorrect, by the way.
It’s 650/8394 = 7.7%
Dave (1bb933) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:41 am@98: I applied to CalTech, Mudd and UCI. Anything on the east coast or north was discarded due to snow. Wait-listed at CalTech.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:44 amDave, I got that 11% from US News. They may have combined something.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:46 amD’oh, you’re right, actually.
There are two degrees: “Psychology” and “Psychology and Social Behavior”.
Sorry!
Dave (1bb933) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:51 amOur president is pathologically disordered.
lurker (d8c5bc) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:51 am75. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/14/2020 @ 9:53 pm
But what was promoted at that time (circa 1965-1990) was grants, not loans, for people whose families could not afford to pay the tuition. There were student loans but tuition was smaller. Loans also allowed a student to keep some of the money for ordinary expenses – at least de facto
Tuition climbed and loans displaced grants.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:57 amTo be honest, I think the Psych degrees are a popular destination for people who start in STEM but struggle.
Not that there aren’t people who go into Psych willingly, of course, but if you are getting C’s or D’s in math, engineering and hard-science courses, Psychology is one place you might switch to.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/15/2020 @ 7:58 amI loved this reply to that Tweet:
Dave (1bb933) — 12/15/2020 @ 8:01 amAlthough it probably gives short shrift to the Third Lady.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/15/2020 @ 8:05 amCocaine Mitch has congratulated Biden on his victory.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/15/2020 @ 8:07 amI think the Psych degrees are a popular destination for people who start in STEM but struggle.
Maybe. That would not have been my path, being an introverted geek at the time. Sadly, they did not give degrees in chess or bridge.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/15/2020 @ 8:13 amUntil yesterday, Biden was only the presumed President-elect. Now he actually is.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/15/2020 @ 8:15 amI don’t think Biden becomes the president-elect until the votes are counted in a joint session of Congress. (The envelopes are opened by the president of the Senate = usually the sitting Vice President, “in the presence of the Senate and the House of Representatives.” And then the votes are counted – the verb is in the passive tense and doesn’t have a subject, so nobody in particular is given the power to count.)
But they have to go by the person voted for by the Electors on the day the Electors vote. That’s the last time any name can be substituted.
And for certain purposes, a person can become the president-elect as soon as the day after Election Day.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/15/2020 @ 8:33 amBased on anecdotal evidence, the gender ratio in intro psych classes is about 3:1 (in the favorable direction…), Mr. Introverted Geek.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/15/2020 @ 8:38 amHe didn’t pay her, and she didn’t ask for money at the time. She was networking, and also wanted to find out if it was true what Marla Maples had once said.
Trump wanted her to do it again, but he would not agree to her terms (which included an appearance on Celebrity Apprentice.)
Later, Michael Cohen gave her $130,000 (which amount Donald Trump was not yet ready to agree to, that’s why he had to use his own money which he didn’t have) in exchange for her silence, but she gave the money back later.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/15/2020 @ 8:42 amSammy, bless his heart, is determined to spoil everybody’s fun…
🙂
Dave (1bb933) — 12/15/2020 @ 8:44 amNot entirely, if “value” means economic return. Assertiveness and confidence are also factors, as well as whether you’re willing to sacrifice intrinsic interest for higher pay. It’s possible to work hard and be good at something that doesn’t pay much for the time, on account of labor intensity and limited public demand for the product. And a lot of pop stars might have a good work ethic, but that isn’t what makes them rich.
Radegunda (20775b) — 12/15/2020 @ 8:45 amI think a more realistic account is that Trump promised her future considerations and employment in return for sex, and when he (predictably) failed to honor his end of the deal, she collected a settlement for the fair market value of the services provided.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/15/2020 @ 8:49 amThe most pressing question of the day.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/15/2020 @ 8:59 amLike the other racket, you can rise to capo or work the streets, or you can go legit. Either way, you’ll still have to buy off the juicemen, the pushers, and the pimps, and give the Organization a piece of your action.
nk (1d9030) — 12/15/2020 @ 9:01 amOn Monday, November 2020, the day before the election, the New York Times ran an Op-ed which argued that, for all its oddities and flaws, in fact maybe because of all its oddities and flaws, was more robust protecting the truthful declaration of democratic outcomes than those of other countries.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/01/opinion/us-election-transition-legality.html
The headline is different in the printed paper. It just says
The U.S.’s Rpbust Electoral Machinery.”
His point is only a few members of the losing party have to refuse to go along with an attempt to steal an election for the theft to fail. Many, many, people have the power to concede.
Innumerable local and state officials and courts. As for state legislatures, only a few members of the losing party have to fail to go along for that to amount to nothing. In Congress, only a small number of representatives or senators can break rank for that to fail.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/15/2020 @ 9:05 amTrump Retweets Threat to Jail Georgia’s Governor and Secretary of State
It’s a strange day for democracy when Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s very belated recognition of Joe Biden’s victory qualifies as breaking news. But that’s because the current president—six weeks after losing his reelection campaign—is still retweeting things like this:
The unhinged claim that Georgia’s Republican governor, Brian Kemp, and its Republican secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, will soon “be going to jail” comes from Lin Wood, a conspiracy-theory-loving, pro-Trump attorney. Wood and Trump are furious that Kemp and Raffensperger haven’t tried to overturn Biden’s victory in the state—a victory that has now been confirmed by two recounts. It comes nearly two weeks after a Georgia rally featuring Wood and former Trump lawyer Sidney Powell, during which Trump supporters chanted, “Lock him up” in reference to Kemp.
Now, as the entire world, including Vladimir Putin, accepts the Electoral College’s formal recognition of Biden as the next president, it appears as though Trump is standing alone, flirting with the idea of literally locking up two Republicans.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/15/2020 @ 9:12 amI’m not sure I care deeply about a college grantee’s choice of major, provided it results in an adult more practiced in critical reasoning and with some sort of viable career trajectory. Sociology can do that as well as Computer Engineering, though with different income potentials (on average), with everything subject to how hard one works, how ambitious they are, how naturally talented they are, and how much risk they are willing to assume. What is the market for History, Philosophy, and English majors? I would say limited…but not zero…without an advanced degree. Pell grants should come with required career counseling…..so like with the Marines….an 18yr old clearly understands what the path entails and what are the true unvarnished opportunities.
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 12/15/2020 @ 9:20 am120. Dave (1bb933) — 12/15/2020 @ 8:49 am
I think what happened is some people in Nevada set up Trump, for reasons of their own, both with Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal, without any input from Donald Trump, who could only guess at their motives for being with him.
Inittially, Donald Trump thought Karen McDougal was a prostitute and wanted to give her money but she refused to take it, saying she was not that kindof girl. Then Trump got really interested in her, and started an affair, which ended after 10 months when Trump wanted to introduce her to Melania (without saying what she was to him)
Later the National Enquirer’s then parent company, American Media Inc. paid $150,000 to Karen McDougal, ostensibly for exclusive rights to her story plus a promise to publish work by her. But they had no intention of printing anything. This is called “catch and kill” Shortly thereafter, the lawyers for the National Enquirer grew concerned that this could be considered an illegal corporate campaign contribution and sought reimbursement from Michael Cohen, who maybe had contacted the National Enquirer in the first place, and who then tried to persuade Donald Trump to buy the rights himself, on the premise that David Pecker could get hit by a truck and the National Enquirer might publish the story. Since this was in late October, 2016, the concern obviously was that the National Enquirer might publish it sometime after the 2016 election. I don’t see how people miss this point.
Trump was willing to agree (Cohen had probably not yet mentioned the price) and wanted to write a personal check, but Cohen told him he shouldn’t do it that way and he could run it through his company. In the end, the National Enquirer was not reimbursed. They made a deal with the special counsel.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/12/nyregion/trump-american-media-michael-cohen.html
Michael Cohen was really afraid that this story would get published.
Was he involved back in 2006?
Trump had a wider reputation to uphold besides the upcoming election.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/15/2020 @ 9:31 am@125, My HR business partner is a Philosophy major. Said a degree that requires critical reading of dense text and quick analysis was a good foundation for what she does today.
Time123 (441f53) — 12/15/2020 @ 9:33 amYou can see where WAPO OP-ED was going w/this. If you’ve got members of an electorate who’ll consider consuming fish tank cleaner and possibly drink bleach, they’ll believe Dr. Jill is an actual MD who, when speaking on anything Covid or medical, has some credibility. When, in actuality, she’s no more qualified than a HRC, a Melania… or a Jackie Kennedy.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/15/2020 @ 9:34 amModerna Vaccine Is Highly Protective and Prevents Severe Covid-19, Data Show
…….
The Food and Drug Administration intends to authorize use of the vaccine on Friday, people familiar with the agency’s plans said. The decision would give millions of Americans access to a second coronavirus vaccine beginning as early as Monday.
The data included in a review by the F.D.A. confirms Moderna’s earlier assessment that its vaccine had an efficacy rate of 94.1 percent in a trial of 30,000 people. Side effects, including fever, headache and fatigue, were unpleasant but not dangerous, the agency found.
…….
Distribution of about six million doses could then begin next week, significantly adding to the millions of doses already being shipped by Pfizer and BioNTech, the companies that developed the first coronavirus vaccine given emergency clearance just last Friday. Health care workers received the first shots on Monday of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, which has an efficacy rate of 95 percent.
……
Moderna’s vaccine has become a symbol of the triumphs of government scientists during the pandemic. After China released the genetic sequence of the new virus in early January, scientists at Moderna and the National Institutes of Health were able to zero in on the design for a vaccine in just two days. Unlike Pfizer, Moderna has maintained a close relationship with Operation Warp Speed, the federal program intended to quickly bring a vaccine to market. Nearly $2.5 billion in federal funds helped Moderna buy raw materials, expand its factory and enlarge its work force by 50 percent.
Moderna’s success stands in contrast to two other high-profile projects that the United States had hoped would augment its supply of vaccines: one from the pharmaceutical companies Sanofi of France and GlaxoSmithKline of Britain, and another from the British-Swedish drug maker AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford.
AstraZeneca and Oxford ended up using two different doses in clinical trials in Britain and Brazil. At one level, the efficacy was 62 percent, and at the other it was 90 percent. These muddled results have left it unclear when AstraZeneca will have enough data to secure an emergency use authorization.
Meanwhile, Sanofi and GlaxoSmithKline received disappointing results from their vaccine in early clinical trials. While it produced a promising immune response in volunteers under 50, it failed to do so in older ones. The companies are now planning a new set of trials with a different version of the vaccine. The delay means they would be unlikely to provide vaccines before the end of 2021.
……..
The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are a truly momentous victory for American science. The use of synthetic mRNA should lead to additional breakthroughs in vaccine and other treatments. The speed at which these successful vaccines were produced is truly remarkable. And thank you Dolly Parton for your donation of $1M toward the research effort. /truth
Donald Trump should win the Nobel Prize for Medicine. /sarc
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/15/2020 @ 9:42 amI think if you’re smart and hark working almost any major will prepare you for generic clerical / business work. Knew a material manager that majored in child psych. If you want to do something that requires specialized training (design a bridge or create logo’s) it requires specialized training. But even then your degree doesn’t prepare you to do big work. You still have a lot of specifics to learn.
If you’re dumb or lazy some degrees are easier to get then others. But I knew a lot of engineers that ended up doing basically clerical work in tech adjacent areas.
When I graduated Frito Lay recruited at the campus. They only wanted to talk engineers who had been a resident advisor for at least 2 years. They cared about grades, but what they were really after was leadership ability and that was what they used to filter.
Time123 (52fb0e) — 12/15/2020 @ 9:43 am@84. “Vladimir Putin wished the President-elect every success and expressed confidence that Russia and the United States, which bear special responsibility for global security and stability, despite their differences can truly contribute to solving many problems and challenges that the world is currently facing,” a Kremlin readout said on Tuesday.”
Along w/t Duchy of Grand Fenwick, eh Vlad?!
… and Xi Jinping smiled.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/15/2020 @ 9:44 amThe Real Intelligentsia warning a schoolteacher not to give herself airs, I think, DCSCA.
nk (1d9030) — 12/15/2020 @ 9:50 amDCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/15/2020 @ 9:34 am
It was a Wall Street Journal Op-ed and he was just bothered by it, somewhat like Andy Rooney.
That didn’t really happen. He was given it by his wife. And we don’t know that she really thought it was the same thing that Trump was talking about. That happened because he knew the powers that be were trying to stop people from using hydroxyxhloroquine as a medication.
That was a light bulb (!!) moment for Trump, who just didn’t understand the way things worked. A “disinfectant” doesn’t kill just “germs.” But people had been saying that to him all his life.
Trump didn’t push it; he just asked a stupid question, but, as they say, there are no stupid questions. Trump’s political enemies immediately claimed, (falsely, like some people think it is de rigueur to say) that he was pushing bleach outright, and characterized it that way. It didn’t help to clear this up that Trump wasn’t honest about being ignorant and said the question was sarcastic, which didn’t make any sense.
What does kill just germs (mostly) and specific germs is antibodies. And where they did push bleach was in Bolivia and the Bolivian Senate endorsed it. Much that you can imagine is true sometimes – somewhere else.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/29/americas/bolivia-disinfectant-covid-19-intl/index.html
The level of education is worth something. Probably more than Melania. Of course you have got to remember what George Orwell said about intellectuals.
But Joe Biden won’t use her that way, because he’s interested in using her as an authority on education, or maybe it’s to indicate to the teachers’ unions (falsely?) that they have a friend in the White House.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/15/2020 @ 10:32 amCBS had a panel.
Two people on the panel said they would take the vaccine immediately without question, but it was not because of the FDA. One said it was because of the companies’ stake in it, and another said it was because of the scientists and researchers who had developed it, or the epidemiologists who endorsed it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-of-face-the-nation-on-december-13-2020
Nobody was waiting for the FDA to pass on it. Do they really imagine people have such confidence in it? When did they earn it?
And if somebody was fearful of a vaccine because of Kamala Harris or Andrew Cuomo, why does anyone think they would change their mind now? After all, Trump is still president, and in his mind the election is not over and he can still win somehow and public opinion matters.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/15/2020 @ 10:57 am129.
Can we call it the “vaccine-elect?”
If you know it is going to be authorized, why is anybody waiting? And seriously, why is anybody waiting for consent forms to be signed?
The bureaucrats think or act like they think that people should wait until they say go, and then immediately agree to be injected. It doesn’t work that way.
Especially since they only approved it for “emergency use” which would indicate (if you took them seriously) that there’s possibly some problem with the vaccine (and so it should be logical to wait and see what happens to other people)
Or it indicates there’s a question about its effectiveness. Which raises the question, if it is an emergency, wasn’t the probability that it would be effective already high enough before, and did they have to wait till now??
There are six vaccines in the pipeline.
And vaccines are not a therapeutic. They probably do nothing for someone already infected. That’s what the antibodies, or ivermectin, or maybe the form of interferon beta called SNG01, are for.
And what is this about two doses and keeping the second doses in reserve? It’s considerably effective after one dose. They can gamble on the second dose being manufactured in time. And if it isn’t? They can gamble that if you wait 30 days or 35 days or 60 days after the first shot it’ll be just as good as waiting 17-21 days. They just tested it that way.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/15/2020 @ 11:06 am58. aphrael (4c4719) — 12/14/2020 @ 5:56 pm
Did somebody forward it to them, with commentary?
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/15/2020 @ 11:28 amFDA Authorizes Antigen Test as First Over-the-Counter Fully At-Home Diagnostic Test for COVID-19
Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued an emergency use authorization (EUA) for the first over-the-counter (OTC) fully at-home diagnostic test for COVID-19. The Ellume COVID-19 Home Test is a rapid, lateral flow antigen test, a type of test that runs a liquid sample along a surface with reactive molecules. The test detects fragments of proteins of the SARS-CoV-2 virus from a nasal swab sample from any individual 2 years of age or older.
“Today’s authorization is a major milestone in diagnostic testing for COVID-19. By authorizing a test for over- the-counter use, the FDA allows it to be sold in places like drug stores, where a patient can buy it, swab their nose, run the test and find out their results in as little as 20 minutes,” said FDA Commissioner Stephen M. Hahn, M.D. “As we continue to authorize additional tests for home use, we are helping expand Americans’ access to testing, reducing the burden on laboratories and test supplies, and giving Americans more testing options from the comfort and safety of their own homes.”
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/15/2020 @ 11:51 am…….
Similar to other antigen tests, a small percentage of positive and negative results from this test may be false. Therefore, for patients without symptoms, positive results should be treated as presumptively positive until confirmed by another test as soon as possible. This is especially true if there are fewer infections in a particular community, as false positive results can be more common when antigen tests are used in populations where there is little COVID-19 (low prevalence).
……..
……..The Ellume COVID-19 Home Test correctly identified 96% of positive samples and 100% of negative samples in individuals with symptoms. In people without symptoms, the test correctly identified 91% of positive samples and 96% of negative samples. The Ellume COVID-19 Home Test uses an analyzer that connects with a software application on a smartphone to help users perform the test and interpret results. Results are delivered in as little as 20 minutes to individuals via their smartphone. The mobile application requires individuals to input their zip code and date of birth, with optional fields including name and e-mail address, and reports the results as appropriate to public health authorities to monitor disease prevalence. Ellume expects to produce more than three million tests in January 2021.
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“….. and reports the results….to local public health authorities…..” So much for health care privacy.
@134.Right- my typo error on WAPO vs. WSJ. Still, they both wrap fish and line trash cans equally. 😉
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/15/2020 @ 12:16 pmAn old oil exec once told me ‘those who can, do, those who can’t, teach.’ It was the corporate mind set at work. It’s hard for that culture to shake it.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 12/15/2020 @ 12:18 pmFour or five things happened on Monday, December 14, 2020:
1. The Electoral College voted. And it also seems not one Electoral vote was lost.
2. The first Covid vaccines that were not part of a clinical trial, were injected into people in the United States. And in Canada, too, although Canada approved the use of the Pfizer vaccine on Wednesday, almost three days ahead of the United States.
3. The official death toll from Covid reached 300,000.
4. Early voting began in Georgia for the two Senate races.
5. Bill Barr resigned as United States Attorney General, effective Wednesday, December 23. Judging from his resignation letter, in which he said he had a few things important to the Trump Administration to attend to, and from leaks, it was voluntary.
Sammy Finkelman (26a080) — 12/15/2020 @ 3:18 pm