Patterico's Pontifications

11/9/2020

Trump’s Refusal To Accept Defeat Limits Access For Biden Transition Team

Filed under: General — Dana @ 11:06 am



[guest post by Dana]

While Joe Biden is actively forming a potential administration, the Trump administration is refusing to take the necessary steps to grant the President-elect’s transition team access and money required for a smooth transfer of power:

A Trump administration appointee is refusing to sign a letter allowing President-elect Joe Biden’s transition team to formally begin its work this week, in another sign the incumbent president has not acknowledged Biden’s victory and could disrupt the transfer of power.

The administrator of the General Services Administration, the low-profile agency in charge of federal buildings, has a little-known role when a new president is elected: to sign paperwork officially turning over millions of dollars, as well as give access to government officials, office space in agencies and equipment authorized for the taxpayer-funded transition teams of the winner.

It amounts to a formal declaration by the federal government, outside of the media, of the winner of the presidential race.

But by Sunday evening, almost 36 hours after media outlets projected Biden as the winner, GSA Administrator Emily Murphy had written no such letter. And the Trump administration, in keeping with the president’s failure to concede the election, has no immediate plans to sign one. This could lead to the first transition delay in modern history, except in 2000, when the Supreme Court decided a recount dispute between Al Gore and George W. Bush in December.

According to a spokesperson for the agency:

An ascertainment has not yet been made, and its Administrator will continue to abide by and fulfill, all requirements under the law.

Given that President Trump has refused to concede the election and seems determined to push back against the announced results, it’s not surprising that there would be no formal acknowledgment of Joe Biden’s win. We already know that a legal defense fund has been established on Trump’s behalf and that Trump is receiving encouragement from some top Republicans to stay in the fight:

Neither Sen. Mitch McConnell, the top Republican in the Senate, nor Rep. Kevin McCarthy, the House minority leader, had issued statements about Biden’s victory as of Sunday afternoon. Meanwhile, one of Trump’s top allies in the House struck a more combative tone once the race was called.

“There are still serious legal challenges that have been made, and until that process is resolved, the election is not final,” House Minority Whip Steve Scalise, R-La., tweeted on Saturday…the “election isn’t over until all legal votes are counted and certified,” language that echoes Trump’s repeated comments of counting only “legal” votes.

Sen. Roy Blunt, R-Mo., pointedly did not acknowledge a Biden victory, instead saying the media shouldn’t project a victory.

“The media can project, but the media doesn’t get to decide who the winner is. There is a canvassing process. That needs to happen…I said on Friday, I thought it was time for the president to turn this discussion over to his lawyers, time for the lawyers to make the case that they have, both in court and to the American people, and then we’re going to have to deal with those facts as they’re presented. That has to happen, and then we move forward,” Blunt said.

Sen. Pat Toomey, R-Pa., said that although he believes the projection of Biden’s victory is “probably correct,” he wants to let the process continue as the Trump campaign attempts to litigate the results.

“Seventy million Americans voted for Donald Trump, and they and the president deserve to have this process play out,” Toomey, who is retiring from the Senate in 2022, told CBS’ Face the Nation.

Sen. Ted Cruz is also supporting Trump, saying that it would be “premature” for him to concede the election.

And Sen. Lindsey Graham has pledged $500,000 to Trump’s legal defense fund and has encouraged the President not to concede:

“If Republicans don’t challenge and change the U.S. election system, there will never be another Republican president elected again,” Graham said Sunday on Fox News. “President Trump should not concede. We’re down to less — 10,000 votes in Georgia. He’s going to win North Carolina. We have gone from 93,000 votes to less than 20,000 votes in Arizona, where more — more votes to be counted.”

Interestingly, Trump’s own family is reportedly split on whether the President should accept the election results:

Kushner, the President’s son-in-law and senior adviser, has approached him to concede, two sources told CNN. The first lady, according to a separate source familiar with the conversations, has privately said the time has come for him to accept the election loss.

Meanwhile, Trump’s two adult sons, Donald Jr. and Eric, have urged allies to continue pressing on and they have pushed Republicans and supporters to publicly reject the results even as CNN and other news organizations projected the race for Biden on Saturday.

Clearly, the Trump campaign is not throwing in the towel, and has its own battle plan, such as it is:

Trump’s campaign is planning a messaging blitz to fuel its argument — unsupported by any evidence to date — that the President’s second term is being stolen from him through corrupt vote counts in battleground states, three sources familiar with the matter told CNN on Sunday evening.

While Trump is dug in, experts are left wondering how this will play out in light of a small window of time until the swearing-in of the next president happens:

The GSA statement left experts on federal transitions to wonder when the White House expects the handoff from one administration to the next to begin — when the president has exhausted his legal avenues to fight the results, or the formal vote of the electoral college on Dec. 14? There are 74 days, as of Sunday, until the Biden inauguration on Jan. 20.

“No agency head is going to get out in front of the president on transition issues right now,” said one senior administration official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly. The official predicted that agency heads will be told not to talk to the Biden team.

This morning, Georgia’s Lt. Gov. Duncan said that his office has “not seen any sort of credible examples” of fraud or voter disenfranchisement.

Yet, if this is accurate, it appears that Trump, underneath all the noise and posturing, seems to at least acknowledge the results as they stand:

President Trump has already told advisers he’s thinking about running for president again in 2024, two sources familiar with the conversations tell Axios.

This is the clearest indication yet that Trump understands he has lost the 2020 election to Joe Biden — even as the president continues to falsely insist that he is the true winner, that there has been election fraud and that his team will fight to the end in the courts.

Sigh. At this point in time, even with no evidence of widespread voter fraud, Trump is determined to make sure that we will not be rid of this turbulent president.

–Dana

370 Responses to “Trump’s Refusal To Accept Defeat Limits Access For Biden Transition Team”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (6995e0)

  2. Trump won’t run in 2024 once he realizes all the money he can make from the outside. He has millions of followers who will pay good money to watch the Trump News Channel.

    Hoi Polloi (7cefeb)

  3. I think that’s a good point, Hoi Polloi, but if he’s going to do that, it’s in his best interest to retain his base and keep them agitated and believing their hero is the real victim. It will keep them hanging on, and he can keep on feeding off their anger while making bank.

    Dana (6995e0)

  4. Yeah smart analysis, Hoi. Trump isn’t over by any stretch. On some level I accept that it’s right. A lot of people love the guy, even though I think he’s trash.

    Dana, this is an amazing post. It amuses me that when Trump said the 2016 election was rigged, and the outcome was a major upset, almost outrageously stupid, and against the popular will of the people, Trump’s supporters, many discussed above, were cool with a quick and smooth transition. Now they betray the trust.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  5. Biden’s margin of victory in PA is now larger than Trump’s was in 2016. The GSA Administrator should do her job.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  6. Why would Trump chance running in 2024 and confirm being a loser as opposed to claiming his government in exile and feed the gullible minions empty pap? As long as he can keep this synthetic fire of outrage burning he will have Republican candidates coming to him and kiss his ***

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  7. “Welcome back, my friends;
    To the show that never ends;
    We’re so glad you could attend;
    Come inside! Come inside!”

    – Karn Evil 9, ‘Brain Salad Surgery’ – Emerson, Lake & Palmer 1974

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  8. I think the other major endgame for the President and his supporters is to come up with some — really just any — election irregularities in Arizona, Nevada, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Georgia. It’s not as if the irregularities have to be enough to have actually affected the outcome of the election, the Trump team just needs the talking point that the election was poorly run in Democrat districts and states so that — ironically enough, just like his old friend Hillary Clinton — he can forever cast himself as a victim.

    What the GOP might hope to get out of this is enough ammunition to argue in favor of limiting mail-in elections and maybe addressing some other election regulations that they feel are too loose.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  9. Trump doesn’t care about the US nearly as much as he cares about himself. If he did, he would authorize this work to start while the issues were resolved so that IF he lost the country wouldn’t suffer.

    I don’t think anyone that supports him in this action really cares about the US.
    I do think that Hoi is likely correct in his reasoning.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  10. I hope Trump maintains his hefty weight, sleep deprivation, and seeming lack of exercise. That way, 2024 would be a moot question.

    norcal (a5428a)

  11. @9, I’ve never seen that Trumps more passionate supporters are particularly hung up on a factual basis for the things they believe. I think he’s already got everything he needs.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  12. “even with no evidence of widespread voter fraud”.

    C’mon man. Don’t parrot the media. There IS evidence. There were election observers who claim they were denied access. There are some anomolies in count numbers. There is the legal challenge in Pennsylvania regarding counting mail-in votes received after 11/3. Also, I haven’t heard that the secretaries of state in any of the battleground states have certified the results. Are they even done counting the votes?

    You know as well as anyone that the media calling the election has absolutely no relevance in the process.

    If you are going to report on this matter you could at least let us know when the transition begins in a “normal election, and when the transition began in 2000 (you know, when the other side disputed an election.)

    Mike S (4125f8)

  13. There IS evidence. There were election observers who claim they were denied access.

    No one is saying an election this big was free of problems. But evidence of widespread fraud? Nada.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  14. What the GOP might hope to get out of this is enough ammunition to argue in favor of limiting mail-in elections and maybe addressing some other election regulations that they feel are too loose.

    JVW (ee64e4) — 11/9/2020 @ 12:32 pm

    This.

    Mail-in votes in this large scale is a disaster as chain of custody is near impossible to achieve.

    whembly (c30c83)

  15. Rule of law, schmule of law…

    There’s currently a Senate-confirmed Deputy Secretary of Defense — David Norquist. Under 10 U.S.C. § 132(b), *he* is supposed to become Acting Secretary in the event of a vacancy.
    Unless Trump fired him, too.

    More

    Congress created the position of Secretary of Defense in 1947. In its first 70 years, there were only two *Acting* Secretaries, and they served for a total of 99 days.
    During the Trump Administration alone, there have now been *four*, who have served for 202 days (and counting).

    For Trump to appoint Miller, he has to also sack Norquist, otherwise he is an illegitimate SecDef.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  16. @14

    There IS evidence. There were election observers who claim they were denied access.

    No one is saying an election this big was free of problems.

    Yeah, literally everyone left leaning person (and Democrats) are saying that.

    But evidence of widespread fraud? Nada.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 11/9/2020 @ 12:45 pm

    How do you know without any good faith investigation.

    One thing I’ll note… those massed mail-in votes. Once counted, it’s almost impossible to track it (if I understand this, in PA they don’t keep the signed envelope. w/o that, you can go back and link a ballot to the envelope. Only hope is to review the # of sent vs # of recieved.)

    whembly (c30c83)

  17. @13, Good example of how trump and his supporters will combine vague assertions with a lack of understanding to support a conspiracy theory. The ballots in PA were not part of the count, when they declared Biden the winner.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  18. Decapitate DoD: roll tanks into Ukraine, eh.

    Putin’s Puppet!

    “Newman!” – Seinfeld, NBC TV

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  19. What the GOP might hope to get out of this is enough ammunition to argue in favor of limiting mail-in elections and maybe addressing some other election regulations that they feel are too loose.

    JVW (ee64e4) — 11/9/2020 @ 12:32 pm

    The only way this back-and-forth between the two parties over electoral voting and counting stops is if:

    1. The US adopts a National ID
    2. The US adopts a national set of voting rules

    Can’t see the Republicans or Democrats agreeing on either/both of these for quite some time, even though every Presidential election seems to give the losing party major heartache.

    Hoi Polloi (7cefeb)

  20. How do you know without any good faith investigation.

    The same people who eagerly accepted the 2016 results, that were quite anomalous, the winner of the contest actually saying it was rigged, didn’t have any problem with Obama transitioning to Trump.

    You just burned a straw man. I didn’t forbid a good faith investigation. Obviously Trump’s folks can’t be involved in something good faith, right? Obviously Rudy Giuliani and Roger Stone have no place where faith exists at all.

    Transition the government to the actual winner. You know Biden won fair and square.

    anyone who cheated, even one single vote, should go to prison, and they absolutely should be investigated even though it can’t possibly change the outcome and the government needs to transition even if that makes minorities happy or whatever Trump’s problem is today.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  21. How do you know without any good faith investigation.

    Because the scale of the allegations and the margin of Victory. If you look at what’s alleged in MI, issues around counting of mail in ballots from Detroit, even if all true it doesn’t give Trump the win. There allegations in PA are less specific but equally small in relation to the margin of victory.

    Additionally, you can do a recount and compare signatures on the ballot to the signature on file for MI. In MI there is not signed envelope.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  22. You know Biden won fair and square.

    Except we don’t.

    You bought him; you own him.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  23. No one is saying an election this big was free of problems. But evidence of widespread fraud? Nada.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 11/9/2020 @ 12:45 pm

    Denying access to election observers is illegal. By itself is not evidence of fraud. But it is certainly an indication of fraud. Why the rush to not allow time to follow up on this?

    Mike S (4125f8)

  24. Except we don’t.

    You bought him; you own him.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/9/2020 @ 12:56 pm

    LOL you know Biden won. Why pretend you don’t know. You’re a very smart guy, you’ve seen a lot of elections, you know for sure Biden is the winner, your boy Trump is the loser.

    It’s all good. This is the first time a guy I voted for actually won since 2004, and I don’t even like Biden.

    By all means repeat this ‘you own him’ business, but my vote is actually up for grabs in 2024. I know you hope for Team R’s failure, but the real question is, will Team R fail to get my vote next time? I’m betting they will be mad at me for a long long time if they don’t start apologizing within a few years. Trump is a stain on the prestige of a nation I love.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  25. @22 Time123, you don’t know that for sure. I’m sure it. As it takes indepth investigation.

    I don’t think anyone knows for sure.

    I’ll have you know, that in 2018 the federal court forces North Carolina to redo an election based on simply evidence of fraud. (not that the fraud made any impact… on that the fraud existed).***

    ***although I don’t think the courts can redo any POTUS election. Only determine whether or not the ballots are legal.

    whembly (c30c83)

  26. Denying access to election observers is illegal.

    Mike S (4125f8) — 11/9/2020 @ 12:59 pm

    Did that happen? Or did a particular guy who likes to hurt kids say it happened? Did observers have to stay a few feet away thanks to reality this year?

    I’m sure somewhere it actually did happen though. I was a GOP election observer in Philly several years ago and you had to have thick skin to do it right. Most college GOP guys are wimps/racists and do not have the ability to talk to people of all walks of life. I had no problem getting the job done, but I’m certain many would have failed so of course many Trump fans, who are more racist and weaker of character than any political supporter in the history of all of the world, failed.

    But the question is, did Biden win. You know he won. Doesn’t mean you don’t stop crime. Any republican or democrat who screwed around with the election belongs in prison regardless of the election outcome. I think we should have an independent agency actively undercover testing for fraud, making examples that instill fear.

    But Rudy’s pervert saying he wasn’t let in? Obviously no one should let that guy into anywhere right?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  27. @26. Dewey-Dewey-do, you have an ox to Gore: nobody ‘knows who won’ until the tallies are certified, Dustin.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. There IS evidence.

    No, there is evidence of errors, lots of them, but when has there ever been a mistake-free election? But that’s not accusation Trump and his loyal followers are making, which is that massive fraud took place in multiple states, which is unproven and lacking evidence.
    There is evidence here and there of fraud, not widespread fraud, and it’s unclear whether these irregularities are greater than in the previous cycle; it has yet to be proven. Lots of allegations have made but, like with the accusations about out-of-state voters in NV, practically every single one has cratered on closer scrutiny.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  29. Weissmann is on the shortlist for many DOJ jobs… is not only a despicable hack, but a conspiratorial nutjob too.

    Andrew Weissmann
    @AWeissmann_
    · 1h
    1. To have a successful coup, a leader must control the military.
    2. Trump just fired DOD Secretary and installed a flunky.
    3. This is serious.
    4. Will Republicans speak up, or will they remain complicit?

    whembly (c30c83)

  30. 25.No one is saying an election this big was free of problems.

    Except you; your own posted words: “You know Biden won fair and square.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  31. You can really tell who the patriots are. If you try to cry wolf about something like massive fraud that changed the outcome of a presidential election, after you know Russia’s been trying real hard to ruin trust in elections for all NATO members, just because your side lost big time, you must not love the country very much.

    Trump got his chance. I didn’t want him to win, most voters didn’t, but he won by the rules and even though Trump said it was rigged and the polls were so wrong, we let him try to keep his big and stupid promises. He couldn’t do the job. Do you really want a guy who can’t do the job to be president after losing the election?

    Or do you just want Trump to be a victim of more ‘fake news’ and ‘deep state’ and lawsuits and probably a prison soon enough?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  32. Just think of the situation that we would be in if this election were actually close. Or if Trump had won the popular vote. His dictatorial tendencies are evident to anyone willing to see them. They’ve been there all along.

    The Attorney General should arrest political opponents. The Defense Secretary must attack demonstrators. Cage the children, Homeland Security. Seriously people…. these things actually happened.

    And now, if he loses, they MUST have cheated. Isn’t that a handy way to look at it?

    noel (9fead1)

  33. @34

    The Attorney General should arrest political opponents. The Defense Secretary must attack demonstrators. Cage the children, Homeland Security. Seriously people…. these things actually happened.

    noel (9fead1) — 11/9/2020 @ 1:11 pm

    Now, now… no need to be disengenous.

    whembly (c30c83)

  34. You’d think ‘folks’ would have figured him out by now:

    Trump. Is. A. Showman.

    He’s going to make his exit a bigger show than the entrance of his successor.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  35. 33.You can really tell who the patriots are.

    Yes- they usually cheat by stealing signals and deflating the football.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  36. “greater than in the previous cycle.”

    That is one helluva standard. “We got away with this much fraud last time so we are allowed the same this time.”

    What we should be looking at is the difference between the stated vote totals of the two candidates. Irregularities of more than that amount swing the election.

    Mike S (4125f8)

  37. I’ll have you know, that in 2018 the federal court forces North Carolina to redo an election based on simply evidence of fraud.

    I don’t believe that was established. The difference in the race was 905 votes and we don’t know how many of the ballots were tampered with (or the votes for the Democrat tossed) in Dowless’ little ballot harvesting venture.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  38. Yes- they usually cheat by stealing signals and deflating the football.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/9/2020 @ 1:17 pm

    LOL. Thread winner!

    Hoi Polloi (7cefeb)

  39. “And now, if he loses, they MUST have cheated”

    Just because Trump is jerk, doesn’t mean they didn’t cheat.

    Mike S (4125f8)

  40. That is one helluva standard. “We got away with this much fraud last time so we are allowed the same this time.”

    It was the standard that Trump and Hillary accepted four years ago. The reason is because actual fraud is rare, even the mail-in kind.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  41. Comrades!

    The Great Leader has created a voter fraud hotline for you, his loyal and credulous subjects, to report “Voter Suppression, Irregularities and Fraud”:

    800-895-4152

    Hooligans are reportedly flooding the line with crank calls and ridicule.

    You’re not hooligans, are you comrades?

    Dave (1bb933)

  42. He asked Ukraine to help him in the election. Russia, in 2016, too. China, if I recall right. The Cabinet members were supposed to be his political operatives. Now, he says that he wants to make sure that nobody cheats?

    noel (9fead1)

  43. The right is now living in it’s own POPULIST REALITIVISM which isn’t much different from the liberal realitivism the right has been complaining about for years. The big difference is the right deals in aggrievements while the left deals in suppressed rights. This polarizing is simply a continuation of incoherent defense based on his cronies pushing buttons on the American psyche by throwing out countless conflicting stories, accusations and lies until people get tired and doubt reality. The Deplorables say they want the truth exploited, but it must be their truth, couched in their words, in the hands of their people and achieved by their methods.

    Winning political wars through winning the heats and minds of the people is an endless struggle that can never be totally won because it ebbs and flows with the times and circumstances. The right realizes it has lost the cultural wars and it’s Flight 93 and other eschatological alarmism is the only thing keeping the apocalyptic fires burning in the gullible. Choose to summon our better angels. America has always been great. the challenge is to live up to what makes her so and the Trump administration profoundly lacks that ability.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  44. Putin awaits ‘official vote count’ to congratulate Biden: Kremlin

    nypost.com/2020/11/09/putin-awaits-official-vote

    … and Donald smiled. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  45. The GSA carried water for the #Resistance after the 2016 election, but that wasn’t worth fussing about.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/oct/25/donald-trump-got-bad-gsa-treatment/

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  46. ‘Conservatives For Biden’

    Adrift; frozen out in the cold, wet night.

    Cling to that deck chair… the Carpathia is coming.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  47. If the left wanted to cheat do you really think they would have let the right win the Senate or pick up seats in the House? No if anyone lost this election is was Trump and his fanaticism. Trump is the one who burnt down the party.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  48. A five million vote deficit for Trump and an insurmountable electoral college loss… and he is still trying to deny Biden’s victory.

    When will we get it? The party platform IS Trump. And so is the Constitution. It’s the way a narcissist thinks.

    noel (9fead1)

  49. When will we get it? The party platform IS Trump

    Careful, another narcissist stated recently that he was the Democrat Party.

    Hoi Polloi (7cefeb)

  50. Careful, another narcissist stated recently that he was the Democrat Party.

    Right, and context is not a thing.

    Dave (1bb933)

  51. Reality is what he wants it to be. Remember when there were 3 million “illegal votes” in 2016. (Just enough to take the lead in the popular vote.) And this man has the nuclear codes for two more months.

    noel (9fead1)

  52. Biden’s margin of victory in PA is now larger than Trump’s was in 2016.

    Yes, but that isn’t the test. The test is “can this state’s vote be contested legally, delaying certification?”

    And the answer in the case of PA, WI and GA is yes. In AZ, it is no. In all cases, there is no automatic recount but Trump (or one of his voters in PA) can request one. In GA, the state pays for it, in the others it depends.

    Now, assuming that NC and AK are Red (and why hasn’t NC been called?), Trump would have to win the recounts in PA and either WI or GA, but he DOES have the right to request them (and probably pay for them). It’s probably a waste of time and terribly divisive, but it isn’t illegal, unconstitutional or devoid of chances. They just have to be done by December 19th or whatever the day is for the electors to meet.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  53. As I’ve state elsewhere, a recount will probably not tell you anything about vote fraud. Recounts basically assume that all votes came from individuals at polling places, with some minor additions from absentees. This election very different.

    What you cannot determine (and probably can never determine) is whether the ballots trace back to an actual voter. If the signature comparison stage is not done by the same election observers as count the votes, but is done ahead of time by a state employee, who knows what criteria were used for this Mark One Eyeball test? I’d bet odds that the signature inspectors are not trained handwriting experts. A partisan eye there, where most of the ballots you get can be expected to favor one candidate, can provide all the fraud you need.

    Unlikely? As unlikely as partisan vote counting, which we actively guard against.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  54. Biden’s margin of victory in PA is now larger than Trump’s was in 2016.

    Because Dems suppressed the Green Party vote.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  55. If we are to continue to have votes cast remotely, we need to have a MUCH better test of identity than signatures, which make a pretty subjective test for untrained election workers, and create an opportunity for mass fraud that we have not had before.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  56. You bought him; you own him.

    It’s incredibly rich that Trump supporters steadfastly refused to allow Trump to own his own messes and yet have decided that those who voted Biden “own him” and all his hits and misses. But especially his misses. What’s so silly about it is, they don’t even see their own hypocrisy and double-standard, they still jump to defend Trump and the messes he has made.

    Dana (6995e0)

  57. Because Dems suppressed the Green Party vote.

    But were thrilled to have JoJo sucking up votes.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  58. 56-58: I should point out that it would be many times terrible if Trump were to prevail in a contest. But the terribleness would extend many places.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  59. @59 dana:

    Hypocrisy and double standards are the new republican principles.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  60. If the left wanted to cheat do you really think they would have let the right win the Senate or pick up seats in the House?

    Say, how did the GOP senate candidates do in GA, MI, NC or AZ?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  61. Now, assuming that NC and AK are Red (and why hasn’t NC been called?), Trump would have to win the recounts in PA and either WI or GA, but he DOES have the right to request them (and probably pay for them).

    NC isn’t called because the state law allows ballots received by November 12 to be counted, if postmarked by election day. Also, they apparently have some unusual law that the election boards have predetermined meeting times that can’t be altered after election day.

    Winning recounts in PA plus WI *or* GA still makes Biden president.

    Biden is leading in states with 306 EV.

    Lose PA? 286.

    Lose PA and GA? 270. Biden wins.

    Lose PA and WI? 276. Biden wins.

    Lose PA, WI and NV? 270. Biden wins.

    Trump needs to claim PA and at least *2* of GA, WI or AZ, or NV and one of GA of AZ.

    Barring faithless electors, no two-state combination is enough to save Spanky.

    Dave (1bb933)

  62. Of course, if Trump concedes there will be no recounts or challenges, which might be why there is so much pressure on him to concede.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  63. NC isn’t called because the state law allows ballots received by November 12 to be counted, if postmarked by election day.

    There won’t be lots and everyone knows it. In fact, if lots DID show up on Nov 12, postmarked Nov 3, someone might think the postmark was bogus.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  64. @63 Kevin:

    The Democrats were supposed to do a lot better with their Senate elections. Ga. is a double runoff and the last I heard about N.C. they were losing. A disappointment is how I would classify it as.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  65. Dave,

    No recounts in AZ with the given margin. You’re right, of course, about me not being able to add. For some reason I was working up from 279, but thinking that AZ was included in that.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  66. There won’t be lots and everyone knows it. In fact, if lots DID show up on Nov 12, postmarked Nov 3, someone might think the postmark was bogus.

    FWIW, the Needle gave Biden about a 15% chance of coming back to win NC. The vote totals haven’t changed since.

    Dave (1bb933)

  67. The Democrats were supposed to do a lot better with their Senate elections.

    Nobody expected them to win, or even force a runoff, in both GA seats.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  68. The transition doesn’t happen until the electoral college meets anyway. Why get one’s panties in a bunch over this?

    Gryph (f63000)

  69. And Trump’s lead in NC (75,000) is bigger than Biden’s lead in PA, GA and AZ combined.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  70. My take on Trump’s refusal to concede is:

    1. The vote count may be incorrect, or some ballots may be invalid somehow.
    2. He can ask for recounts
    3. It’s Trump we’re talking about.
    4. Maybe he wants the Agnew deal to shuffle off gracefully.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  71. @70 Kevin;

    No they didn’t expect Ga. to go red although at the end President Obama made a terrific run at making it happen. THEY WERE supposed to take Iowa, Maine, North Carolina Colo, Arizona, and possibly Texas. Only a few of which happened which is why I say Disappointing!

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  72. Nobody expected them to win, or even force a runoff, in both GA seats.

    That’s not correct.

    538 had Perdue 49.3 to 49.0.

    It showed a runoff was certain in the special election.

    Dave (1bb933)

  73. Yes, but that isn’t the test. The test is “can this state’s vote be contested legally, delaying certification?”

    I don’t believe recounts will make a whit of difference, Kevin, and it seems to me that the “contested legally” part depends on the evidence, to which we’ve seen little to none. Lots of allegations, little to no evidence.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  74. Yes- they usually cheat by stealing signals and deflating the football.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/9/2020 @ 1:17 pm

    So nihilist. But the score for Trump, that quarter million americans lost on his watch, the world more dangerous, the nation less powerful or trusted, we’re more likely to have war than ever.

    So it matters that he sucks at leadership. This isn’t a game. It’s fun to think about like that, like it’s Biden fans versus Trump’s, rooting against eachother, but really, most of us are rooting for our country to succeed. Only these days it’s clear some on the fringe of Team R weren’t (we already knew the fringe of Team D wasn’t).

    time to move forward. Hope Biden does great, make a case for replacing him with a good republican in 2024, but mostly, let’s put politics on the back burner. It’s gotten a little too entertaining.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  75. A recount is a legal contest. There are probably others, but this is one on their books that they cannot just slough off. I, too, don’t think it will help, not in 3 separate states, and I do think it would get divisive, burn more bridges, and make any return to comity just that much harder.

    But it IS legal, and we ARE talking about Trump.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  76. Lots of allegations, little to no evidence.

    I also agree with this, although the reason that there is no evidence of some things that could have happened is there was no attempt to prevent it, record it, or provide an audit trail. Not anyone’s fault, really, this is new territory and we’re talking about bureaucracy, but if we are going to have 21st century elections we should not rely on 19th century methods.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  77. Starting the transition on the theory that Biden will probably win would make for a more effective government hand off of power, and allow Biden to govern more effectively when he takes office. It does not mean so far as I understand that Trump has to concede or give up flailing around with his lawsuits and recounts.

    So it’s a good idea for effective government being sabotaged by the need to cater to Trump’s ego. As usual.

    Victor (4959fb)

  78. Trump has nothing to gain by being nice and conceding. It only helps the country. And this is Trump.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  79. Even FoxNews has limits, apparently:

    Fox News anchor Neil Cavuto abruptly cut away from a Trump campaign press conference led by Kayleigh McEnany Monday afternoon.

    The White House Press Secretary was speaking in her dual role as campaign spokesperson and was addressing President Donald Trump’s continued efforts to refuse conceding the election, after news outlets projected he has lost.

    “There is only one party in America trying to keep observers out of the count room, that party my friends is the Democrat party,” McEnany proclaimed. “You don’t take these positions because you want an honest election. You don’t oppose an audit of the vote because you want an accurate count. You don’t oppose our effort at sunlight at transparency because you have nothing to hide. You take these positions because you are a welcoming fraud and you are welcoming illegal voting.”

    Shortly after her baseless allegation that the Democratic party was “welcoming fraud” and “welcoming illegal voting,” Cavuto cut in abruptly by saying “whoa, whoa, whoa, I just think we have to be very clear.”

    “She’s charging the other side is welcoming fraud and welcoming illegal voting, unless she has more details to back that up, I can’t in good countenance continue showing this,” he continued.

    Dave (1bb933)

  80. If you can’t distinguish Dave from the most extreme on the left, am that matters to you is devotion to Trump.

    That ain’t patriotism. In fact it’s the opposite.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  81. Am=all

    Sigh

    Dustin (4237e0)

  82. Arkansas police chief resigns after appearing to call for violence over election

    An Arkansas police chief has resigned after he posted messages on a right-wing social media site that appeared to urge people to assault “Marxist” Democrats over the presidential election, the mayor said.

    […]

    The post and others were first published by The Ozarks Coalition, which tracks hate groups in Arkansas. A member of the group, Quinn Foster, said a tipster flagged the posts early Saturday. The group had planned to stage a protest at City Hall on Sunday but canceled it after Holland resigned.

    Other screenshots posted by the group appeared to show Holland calling the FBI and the CIA “Marxist” organizations working to overthrow the United States.

    “Hang all these Marxist Democrats now,” the message said.

    Screenshots of the posts.

    Dave (1bb933)

  83. Cleanup on aisle 87.

    Dave (1bb933)

  84. More like Cognitive Dissonance 101…that’s gonna piss off your new margin-of-victory (in downballot races) bloc, #87.

    urbanleftbehind (314e8f)

  85. Time123 (b87ded) — 11/9/2020 @ 12:32 pm

    I don’t think anyone that supports him in this action really cares about the US.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 11/9/2020 @ 1:10 pm

    You can really tell who the patriots are. … you must not love the country very much.

    We’re all so lucky to have the two of you to tell us about real Americans.

    frosty (f27e97)

  86. frosty, don’tcha love it?

    It’s only a matter of time before we’re getting called traitors.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  87. urban, kindly show me on the doll where I said anything at all about how ahead or behind Trump is, may be, or thinks he is.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  88. BTW, Biden just widened his lead in GA to 11,418, and their Lt. Governor reported no “credible incidents” of fraud or disenfranchisement, which means that if someone finally calls GA, Biden wins even if PA is set aside for court challenges. All that’s happening now is delay tactics because the idiot baby in the White House is still banging his spoon because he’s not getting what he wants.
    Biden’s AZ narrowed to 15,432, and I have no idea how it’s going to turn out, but it would be a nice symmetry if he wins it, giving him 306 EVs, the same number of EVs Trump won four years ago.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  89. @59 Don’t put me in that bucket Dana…

    Trump’s owns his own crap, and I readily acknowledge that.

    So, prepare for a lot more suckage under the Biden/Harris administration. What remains to be seen, if you’ll ever come to the point where you’d have buyer’s remorse or not.

    Because, I’m sure groups like the Sisters of the Poor are not looking over their shoulders…

    whembly (c30c83)

  90. I think I must have struck a nerve.

    But I understand and appreciate the value in being so sensitive.

    I hope you use that to empathize with your country. Trump can’t put its interests street of himself. The country saw that and rejected him again.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  91. @92 Are you tattooing your words on people? (That has to be one of the strangest attempts at imagery that I’ve ever seen/heard, and I work with teenagers)

    Nic (896fdf)

  92. And sorry again for the typos. Public school+new phone is not a winning combo.

    I don’t mind the harsh words. If that makes qdp feel better so be it. I’ve met a lot of guys who talk.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  93. @94 It is not against Catholic teachings to pay for the hormonal treatments we commonly refer to as “Birth control”. Women may legitimately take them for non-birthcontrol, mostly women’s health, reasons that do not violate the Theology of the Body. The Sisters were mistaken. (yes, I know, that isn’t what you were primarily talking about, but using them as the example doesn’t make for a good example and I’m tired of hearing people use the same bad example over and over again).

    Nic (896fdf)

  94. qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/9/2020 @ 3:38 pm

    It’s only a matter of time before we’re getting called traitors.

    It sounded better in the original German and they had better uniforms. We’re going to get a bad rerun of the crappy Russian version. They’re going to be to lazy to dig a decent ditch.

    frosty (f27e97)

  95. ” All that’s happening now is delay tactics because the idiot baby in the White House is still banging his spoon because he’s not getting what he wants.”

    They’re getting one last round of fundraising done.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  96. @86-
    What, even Parler has standards? So much for being a free speech alternative to Twitter.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  97. Trump Campaign Adviser Leading Legal Challenges Tests Positive for COVID-19 as White House Outbreak Grows
    David Bossie, who was tapped last week to lead the Trump campaign’s post-election legal battles, is the latest person in the White House’s orbit to test positive for the coronavirus.

    Bossie, who was Trump’s deputy campaign manager in 2016, has reportedly been inside the campaign’s headquarters in Arlington, Virginia, “several times” over the last week. According to Bloomberg, Bossie was diagnosed on Sunday after taking a test at the White House—which is required for all visitors seeing the president.
    ……
    “Because he can’t be at the campaign headquarters and he can’t be in the Oval Office [due to his diagnosis] Dave’s no longer a part of the decision-making process,” one source said.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  98. Facing runoffs, Georgia’s Republican senators ask the state’s top elections official, also a Republican, to step down.

    Senators David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler of Georgia on Monday called for the resignation of the state’s top elections official, Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, as they accused his office of failing to oversee an honest and transparent election without evidence or citing specific concerns.
    ……
    “We believe when there are failures, they need to be called out — even when it’s in your own party,” the senators said in their statement, which did not offer any specific allegations or explain how they believed Mr. Raffensperger had fallen short.

    “Honest elections are paramount to the foundation of our democracy,” they said. “The Secretary of State has failed to deliver honest and transparent elections. He has failed the people of Georgia, and he should step down immediately.”

    Mr. Raffensperger responded quickly in a statement of his own. “Let me start by saying that is not going to happen,” he said.
    ……
    Some conservatives fear that impugning the electoral process will depress the vote among Republican voters, who may not turn out if they do not trust the legitimacy of the electoral process.

    “Trump is gonna cost the GOP the Senate,” Erick Erickson, a Georgia-based conservative commentator, wrote on Twitter. “His supporters are internalizing that the election in Georgia was stolen so why bother even trying.”
    ……
    ……as they accused his office of failing to oversee an honest and transparent election…..

    Meaning Raffensperger didn’t rig the election enough so the Senators would avoid runoffs.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  99. Meaning Raffensperger didn’t rig the election enough so the Senators would avoid runoffs.

    And it comes down to this. Two of the slimiest slime buckets in the Senate to be the difference between a Republican Senate and a Democrat Senate. Thanks, Grand Old Putas! And Putin bit his lip.

    nk (1d9030)

  100. It’s incredibly rich that Trump supporters steadfastly refused to allow Trump to own his own messes and yet have decided that those who voted Biden “own him” and all his hits and misses.

    Well, he is incredibly rich– and of course he ‘owns them;’ start with…

    Helsinki.

    But ‘Conservatives for Biden,’ a disenfranchised minority so hateful of Trump, so incapable of separating the man from the policies; an angry cult so enraged by his behavior, blindly supported a person they’d routinely oppose: the Borker Biden; the Quitter Biden; the Plagiarist Biden w/o even seriously debating his 47 year record in government. Just because he’s ‘not Trump.’ And by doing so have propelled Kamala Harris, the most liberal U.S. senator– and now the most wholly unprepared VP since Dan Quayle, into being a heartbeat away from the presidency to be held by a twice brain surgeried, frail, gaffe-prone and increasingly befuddled old man who turns 78 years old in just 11 days.

    So yes: you bought him; you own him.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  101. @105 It’s like we have proportional representation, and a wacko fringe party needs to be wooed to form a majority.

    norcal (a5428a)

  102. @77. No; so true, Dustin.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  103. And by doing so have propelled Kamala Harris, the most liberal U.S. senator– and now the most wholly unprepared VP since Dan Quayle, into being a heartbeat away from the presidency to be held by a twice brain surgeried, frail, gaffe-prone and increasingly befuddled old man who turns 78 years old in just 11 days.

    I thought you were the guy who wanted to destroy the modern conservative movement.

    norcal (a5428a)

  104. 106 should be @104.

    norcal (a5428a)

  105. When remember Trump accused Ted Cruz of stealing the caucus? Actually, I didn’t, but there’s a pattern.
    As for Trump filing all the appeals, does he have a right to do so? Yes, but I’m guessing practically all will get tossed.
    Bottom line, Lloyd Christmas has a better chance of hooking up with Mary Swanson than Trump’s dream team of lawyers have of winning any significant decisions.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  106. @108. It’s been done; neuter; not destroy.

    Keep clinging to that deck chair– the Carpathia is coming.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  107. We’re all so lucky to have the two of you to tell us about real Americans.

    frosty (f27e97) — 11/9/2020 @ 3:35 pm

    It’s really just definitional. The patriots and otherwise are showing who they are. The people who want the country to succeed, and the people who are upset of it succeeds. If you need me to explain it that’s a shame but you’ve been on a but of a roll lately.

    Take don jr, mad about a wonderful bit of news because he and his daddy can’t get a slice of credit. We all know people like that. Everywhere they go it smells bad but they don’t check their own shoes.

    We live in great times. We are more aware of anger and pain but those aren’t new. Q anon and many Trump fanatics, among other extremists, show us that living in prosperity is no cure for mental disease.

    Just hope Biden succeeds instead of insisting he has already failed. I gave Trump a chance. Go back and check. He didn’t do a good job. It’s good for America that he’s on the way out. It’s bad that he is trying to undermine America’s most precious asset that so many soldiers lost their lives for.

    This is a pretty big deal, to refuse to concede when he won on a lot less. It’s what we all knew was coming, but still Trump is truly a disgrace and soon you will insist you never supported him. Everyone will. Thank God.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  108. I’ll say this, Dustin, Trump is pushing these challenges more for himself than for his country, and to that extent he is unpatriotic and un-American, but he is also that for working a real estate deal in Moscow, a hostile foreign power, while running for president, and enlisting the Ukrainian government to help him beat Biden. Trump has literally wrapped himself around our flag, but he’s no patriot.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  109. @108. Seriously, Google her wiki bio. She makes Dan Quayle look like Churchill and LBJ like Jesus Christ.

    And given Biden’s age as well as health history[that we know of]- she’ll likely be POTUS intwo years or so. Check the Social Security life expectancy actuary tables for a 78 year old male Caucasian — the overlay a history of invasive brain surgery. Ugh. America is so screwed.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  110. @98 Nic, t is absolutely against Catholic teachings to take birth control medications for birth control. You’re the one being disingenuous here, or clearly mistaken.

    For instance, in Missouri, the Archdiocese does support taking birth control pills for other reasons than birth control, such as endometriosis. Before the ACA, if you worked for the archdiocese, you’d only need a written note from your doctor and the diocese’s insurance plans will pay for it. (I know this because my ex is a Catholic school teacher)

    The Sisters of the Poor don’t WANT to be forced to pay for abortifacient. So, they’re not wrong in their fight.

    whembly (c30c83)

  111. mr. president donald lame duck trump, who is married to a plagiarist but only she knows for how much longer, has no legacy to save

    he is being flushed down the toilet of american history and there is no way to turn that into a graceful exit

    and he knows it

    all he has left is his tearful sadbois to tell us that the tidy-bowl will irritate our bottoms

    which they do

    tell us, i mean

    nk (1d9030)

  112. a formal declaration by the federal government, outside of the media, of the winner of the presidential race.

    But we’ve only had this since the Ford -> Carter transition in 1976-1977 I think. Kennedy and Nixon didn’t have this, and we were already in the nuclear age.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  113. @114 She IS bad. However, Biden and/or Harris hamstrung by a Republican Senate is better than Trump getting re-elected. Trump is a cultural cancer.

    norcal (a5428a)

  114. mr. president donald lame duck trump, who is married to a plagiarist but only she knows for how much longer

    I hope she got a pre-nup to protect herself from his debt.

    norcal (a5428a)

  115. @118. That hangs by a thread w/ Georgia…

    Trump is a cultural cancer.

    Trump is a Reagan Creation.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  116. Dustin (4237e0) — 11/9/2020 @ 4:54 pm

    Ah, you’ve changed your mind and the old condescending responses have made a return. I knew you couldn’t keep a promise.

    It’s really just definitional.

    Of course it is. By definition you want all things good and if someone disagrees with you they, by definition, want something you consider bad. After you’ve decided you’re on the team that has to save the world everything else is easy.

    frosty (f27e97)

  117. One problem is that Senate confirmations, and investigations of appointees, are taking longer and longer. But a president really does not need to pick them this early. (or if you say he does, then the November election still does not give him enough time.)

    Typically, Senate committees hold hearings on people who can not have been formally nominated yet, in the two weeks before the inauguration. (and the FBI investigations started even earlier)

    They try to confirm Cabinet members on January 20 or 21. Although dome take longer.

    One of the first things a newly inaugurated president does is formally nominate people to any number of positions. This will happen even before President Biden re-instates DACA, or anything else he says will be the first thing he will do.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  118. norcal (a5428a) — 11/9/2020 @ 5:11 pm

    I disagree. I was told the only path to a return of conservative values was for the GOP to be booted from power. If that’s the only path I’d like to see that.

    frosty (f27e97)

  119. @115 They are wrong because paying for hormonal treatment that we call “birth control” isn’t actually against their religion. If they knew that and sued anyway, they were acting in bad faith and presuming bad faith among their own staff members without evidence. And no health plan is required to cover abortion. None of them.

    Nic (896fdf)

  120. @124

    @115 They are wrong because paying for hormonal treatment that we call “birth control” isn’t actually against their religion.

    It *is* if the purpose is for birth control.

    If they knew that and sued anyway, they were acting in bad faith and presuming bad faith among their own staff members without evidence. And no health plan is required to cover abortion. None of them.

    Nic (896fdf) — 11/9/2020 @ 5:24 pm

    There are many birth controls that ARE considered abortifacient, not all of them. The Sisters wanted to not pay for the ones there were considered abortifacient.

    So, no…they weren’t action in bad faith.

    whembly (c30c83)

  121. @123 Why should we boot them when conversion is an option? Even Muslims understand this. 🙂

    norcal (a5428a)

  122. Mike S (4125f8) — 11/9/2020 @ 12:43 pm

    There were election observers who claim they were denied access.

    Giuliani claims about 600,000 votes in Oennsylvania were not observed.

    Now the Pennsylvania mail in ballot was somewhat like the Publisher’s Clearing House sweepstakes is. pr says it is – you had to do things just right. You had to put the ballot inside an envelope (which served no other purpose other than to hide the ballot) or it was disqualified, just like some entries don’t count in the Publisher’s Clearing House sweepstakes if they are done wrong.

    About 10% of mail ballots fail the test (they are called “naked ballots”) New York also has two envelopes, but in New York you sign and date the inner envelope – in Pennsylvania all that it done on thee outer envelope, so it is easier to leave it out, and in any case in New York you can;t do anything with an unsigned balot (but you can vote at a polling place with no excuse.)

    In the past, when absentee ballots in Pennsylvania were about 10% of the number submitted this year, naked ballots were often counted. President Trump wants to make absolutely sure none of these “illegal votes”, which probably break about 2-1 in favor of Biden, gets counted. For good measure any that came after Election Day, but there are not too many.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  123. @126. Because the tail no longer wags the dog.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  124. @125 I believe the Sisters wanted to eliminate the possibility that “hormonal treatment” would be the surface excuse for de facto use of it as birth control. I am okay with that.

    I’m pro-choice, but I believe that a private employer should be free to structure health benefits as it chooses. If employees don’t like it, they can seek another employer.

    norcal (a5428a)

  125. @125 They aren’t paying for it for birth control. A person might use it for birth control, but that wouldn’t be what they were paying for. They didn’t ask to not pay for anything specific, it was an ask that included things that are permissible. If you want to get really specific we can talk about secondary effects and abortion, at which point we will eventually end up talking about ectopic pregnancies and the removal of a bit of Fallopian tube and the 2ndary effect of (directly) causing an abortion, which I think is primarily the Church fooling itself or trying to fool other people because it is obviously an abortion except worse since it causes injury to the woman.

    Nic (896fdf)

  126. norcal (a5428a) — 11/9/2020 @ 5:30 pm

    @123 Why should we boot them when conversion is an option? Even Muslims understand this. 🙂

    So, you’re saying all of these True Conservative NeverTrumpers were converted into something else?

    frosty (f27e97)

  127. I believe the Sisters wanted to eliminate the possibility that “hormonal treatment” would be the surface excuse for de facto use of it as birth control.

    And the slippery slope that next they would be asked to pay for the room, too.

    nk (1d9030)

  128. @130 You’re missing the distinction.

    They don’t what to be FORCED to pay what they believe contravene their belief system by default.

    If there are non-birth control reasons for such meds, they had a system whereby the patient could have the diocese insurance pay for it with just a little paperwork.

    whembly (c30c83)

  129. @133 I’m taking pre-ACA of course. Not sure anymore these days.

    whembly (c30c83)

  130. @131 No, I’m saying that the NeverTrumpers were wrong to try and boot any GOP politician who humored Trump in an effort to get some good policies enacted. They should have known that these GOP politicians would soon see the writing on the wall and return to their pre-Trump comportment.

    norcal (a5428a)

  131. @129 I know I am overly reactive to this and should relax, but part of it is that I am personally offended by their case. There is no reason for the case that doesn’t include them being bad nuns. They either don’t know what they are talking about, are lying to the government, or are making unwarranted judgements about the honesty of their own staff. They are supposed to know their faith and be honest and charitable, dammit, they’re nuns. 😛

    @134 Their entire case was post ACA.

    Nic (896fdf)

  132. Who wants to volunteer to go into the jungle and inform Ted Cruz that the war is over?

    norcal (a5428a)

  133. Fox’s Carlson on the late Trebek: “He wasn’t even an American.” – Tucker Carlson

    Tucka, Tucka, Tucka… Canadian-born Alex Trebek became a naturalized citizen of the United States in 1998.

    Idiot.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  134. I just deleted a comment by qdpsteve. If I ever see anything like that from him again he is banned.

    Patterico (63b565)

  135. Ivana Trump Reacts to Ex-Husband’s POTUS Loss:

    ‘He’s not a good loser.’

    ‘This has been a Filmways Presentation, dahling.’ – Eva Gabor, ‘Green Acres’ CBS TV signoff

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  136. I am probably delaying the inevitable for no reason.

    Patterico (63b565)

  137. Who wants to volunteer to go into the jungle and inform Ted Cruz that the war is over?

    Whoever said that, has no insight into Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz is not the Japanese soldier still hiding in the Philippine jungles in 1971. He is the maiden lady saying “Please, sir, don’t touch me there!” to men whom the thought had never even crossed their minds.

    nk (1d9030)

  138. The election, or at least the voting, is over:

    https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-fda-authorizes-emergency-use-covid-antibody-treatment-20201110-o2wmxjp6qvhhjfwpefi6e2fylu-story.html

    Oct 28:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02965-3

    “What you really want is something that is so amazingly potent that you need barely any,” says biochemist Pamela Björkman of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. “You want to be able to give it to everybody in the house or the hospital or the school or the meat-packing plant that’s been exposed.”

    Yes, but today the FDA did not approve that.

    No, the strategy is masks.

    Several researchers who spoke to Nature highlighted the 8 grams of antibodies — the highest dosage tested in clinical trials — that Trump received. “It’s an enormous dose,” says virologist Gerald McInerney of the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm. “Even if it did work, at a dose of 8 grams, it would be incredibly expensive.” Even the lower doses being tested — Regeneron’s lowest is 2.4 grams — would be too high for widespread use as a preventative treatment, says Björkman.

    Really?

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  139. ye gods…
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1325933001243549697.html

    This new lawsuit is against the PA secretary of the commonwealth and four election boards in heavily-Democratic counties.

    It raises due process, equal protection, and electors clause claims and is premised on two specific complaints about procedures in PA.
    The Trump camp. alleges that:

    (1) Trump camp. observers were prevented from meaningfully observing pre-canvassing, counting, and mail-in counting.

    (2) The Democratic election boards allowed voters to cure bad ballots prior to election day, whereas other counties did not.

    There is some pre-buttal in here about what “meaningfully observe” means and its importance to election integrity, since even the Trump campaign is grudgingly admitting that GOP observers were actually present in the room.

    The second underlying complaint about election procedures is essentially about fairness, and it’s the first time I’m hearing about it. (They will have to prove up these allegations.)

    But they say that election officials in the named Dem. counties did more to cure bad ballots.
    The theory is that (1) election officials should not have tried to cure bad ballots received before Election Day; and (2) it is unfair to voters from other counties that didn’t get a chance to cure so *all of the cured ballots should be thrown out.*

    I think it highly unlikely this second theory will succeed. The courts are not going to throw out what even the Trump campaign seems to be admitting are accurate ballots reflecting the true wishes of the voter who cast it just because not all voters could have cured bad ballots.

    “I have here a stack of ballots that you think can’t be counted because they’re too accurate!??”

    Just don’t thinik that’s gonna fly. This second theory, btw, explicitly does not rely on the theory that fraud was committed. The campaign concedes that these are accurate ballots.

    The relief sought by the Trump campaign in this latest lawsuit is quite simply that Pennsylvania not get a say in this election.

    That would deprive Biden of 20 electoral votes. To win, Trump would still need to pick off at least one and possibly two other states.

    Again, I think it highly unlikely that the courts are going to say “you know what, Pennsylvania voters you don’t count this time around because some of your election boards were too diligent in securing accurate votes.”

    For one thing, on a per-voter level, the fairness objection simply doesn’t exist. An accurately counted ballot is an accurately counted ballot regardless of whether it comes in a heavily-D county or a heavily-R county.

    Only when you back out to the per-party level does it start to matter where accurate ballots are coming from.

    But the parties do not have a right to have ballots for their candidate cast on an equal basis. For starters, there’s no way to know who these cured votes went to.

    Right? The “diluting effect of illegal ballots” doesn’t even come into play when the claim necessarily is that these cured ballots are actually, concededly correct.

    Turning for a second back to the first underlying dispute over election procedure—that GOP observers were kept too far from canvassers to meaningfully observe—a couple notes.

    First, there is no allegation here that Dem observers were allowed closer than GOP observers.
    Second, the remedy sought (throw out PA’s electoral votes) doesn’t fix the procedural error here.

    The remedy to “we didn’t always get to observe” is “have a recount we get to observe” not “PA voters get no say in this election because of a isolated incidents in four counties.”

    To spin back to this tweet, I am seeing argument about Bush v. Gore, but it’s important to remember that the equal protection issue there was treating ballots unequally when we don’t know the will of the voter.

    The will of the voter is not at issue in PA’s cured ballots.

    But there’s an even more fundamental problem with the Bush v. Gore argument. According to the complaint itself, the Dem sec. of commonwealth authorized all counties to use a cure procedure for defective ballots.

    It’s hard to see how the decision of some counties not to cure ballots in accordance with that direction, means the cured ballots should get thrown out because some counties chose to disregard the procedure.

    That would essentially give obstinate counties a veto over other counties any time vote procedures differed, which cannot be the correct outcome. Otherwise, GOP counties could just spoil the votes in Democratic states at any time by refusing to use the same counting standards.

    Right, and the fact that they ran out of time meant that it was over.

    At the moment, we still have a lot of time before the ultimate certification has to happen.

    IOW, there is still time for application of remedies.

    I also want to clear something up about fraud. The cured ballot issue does not involve claims of fraud. The meaningful observer issue does, potentially, involve the possibility of fraud. The Trump campaign’s point is that they couldn’t tell because they couldn’t observe.

    And I might add that even though the underlying causes of action do not rely on claims of fraud, the complaint, in its factual recitations, does suggest that some fraud could have occurred. It just doesn’t specify the evidence the campaign could bring to prove it.

    Anyway, to sum up. This is not a frivolous lawsuit (as some legal commentators immediately claimed on Twitter).

    But it’s hard to see how even if the campaign could prove up these claims that they’ve asked for appropriate remedies.

    Click on the unroll link above… there’s useful screenshots.

    whembly (c30c83)

  140. My problem with the ACA was not so much the mandate to purchase insurance as it was the government mandating what the various plans had to cover. All I needed was a catastrophic plan, which is less expensive. That wasn’t good enough for Obama.

    Actually, I didn’t like either mandate, but the purchase mandate made sense insofar as hospitals are required to treat people in the ER. If hospitals have to treat you, then you have to buy health insurance.

    In an ideal world, none of these mandates would exist. Lawyers couldn’t sue doctors at the drop of a hat, government wouldn’t meddle in health care, and ruthless competition would keep prices low. If you didn’t have insurance or the cash to pay for treatment, and no private charity would pay for it, you wouldn’t get treated. Period. Alas, that’s a level of personal responsibility that most Americans can’t handle.

    Health care is not a right! Person A doesn’t have a claim on Person B’s wallet because Person A gets sick.

    norcal (a5428a)

  141. I just deleted a comment by qdpsteve. If I ever see anything like that from him again he is banned.

    https://patterico.com/2020/11/07/weekend-open-thread-58/#comment-2460060

    Dave (1bb933)

  142. @141 After your comment, I must concede that I have no insight into Ted Cruz. 🙂

    norcal (a5428a)

  143. Trump/Biden/Trump/Biden bark, bark, bark! …

    Earth to people; Earth to people: the President fired America’s Secretary of Defense today.

    WTF— BTW, in case you’ve forgotten, the U.S. is still at war in Afghanistan, you know.

    Imagine if this had been Rumsfeld.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  144. @146 He’s the Zodiac Killer, doncha know?

    whembly (c30c83)

  145. @144 I think the real problem comes in somewhere in the medical training portion of healthcare. I know a lot of HS seniors with excellent transcripts and recommendations every year who want to go into nursing (I’m not at the college end, so I can’t talk about med school) and can’t find a nursing program to get into, they are all always backed up with waiting lists nation-wide, and have been for at least 15 years, and yet we are still importing nurses from S.Africa and India and such.

    Nic (896fdf)

  146. @149 It’s because we burn out our nurses.

    whembly (c30c83)

  147. @149 Hmm. Sounds like the taxicab medallion racket. Restrict entry to the field so as to prop up pay.

    norcal (a5428a)

  148. @150 All the more reason to allow more nurses and nursing schools

    norcal (a5428a)

  149. @145. Uhhhhh, Davey, you posted on this blog for me to go ‘die in a fire.’ Fortunately, I don’t mind getting lit w/Jack Daniels and have a hot sense of humor. Patterico, Dana & JVW are tolerant, friendly– sometimes funny folks; good eggs all. Suggest you don’t throw stones in glass houses, point fingers and leave the driving to them.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  150. Definitely don’t throw stones around DCSCA, for sure.

    Leviticus (9d3248)

  151. I’m amused at people who get so offended online. You can call me every name in the book. I don’t care.

    norcal (a5428a)

  152. Uhhhhh, Davey, you posted on this blog for me to go ‘die in a fire.’

    After you insulted my student, yes.

    Dave (1bb933)

  153. @150 We do, but if we let all those bright, young, capable, dedicated kids into nursing school we’d have more nurses and wouldn’t burn them out as quickly.

    @151 That is my opinion, yes.

    Nic (896fdf)

  154. @154. At me is better. =ouch= 😉

    Back in ’70 my own brother smacked me on the head with his jacket– he forgot inside the jacket pocket was a large piece of English flint, the size of a softball, he’d picked up in the park. Or did he forget?!

    *** =thwack= ***

    Saw Wylie Coyote stars all afternoon. Still have that piece of flint, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  155. @131 No, I’m saying that the NeverTrumpers were wrong to try and boot any GOP politician who humored Trump in an effort to get some good policies enacted. They should have known that these GOP politicians would soon see the writing on the wall and return to their pre-Trump comportment.

    norcal (a5428a) — 11/9/2020 @ 5:54 pm

    That’s intelligent, though I don’t really agree. I have this idea that their support of Trump has been particularly immoral, and something that should receive a strong response. Lindsey Graham does not deserve any kind of respect, for example. We may still be on the road to a very bad place thanks to how badly these guys. I am very curious how 2024 shapes up.

    That said, I am pretty glad a lot of the Trump lackeys are around. Biden with a GOP Senate is an excellent result for nevertrumpers. I am sometimes naive about this kind of thing but I don’t like the idea of these guys returning to being Obama era Republicans, just pretending they care about spending and comity.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  156. @156. Davey:

    “Be clever. Be quiet.” – Cornelius [Roddy McDowell] ‘Planet of the Apes’ 1968

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  157. Tucka C. just wants his fireable offense before departing Fox for TrumpTV or whichever of OAN, Blaze or Newsmax opens wide and…, just like George Constanza from the Yankees when the the Mets’ Diector of Scouting position came up.

    urbanleftbehind (314e8f)

  158. @155. Me too. Love the creativity. Great source to poach ideas from as well. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  159. Giuliani claims that about 683,000 mail in votes in Pennsylvania (out of s total of 6,663,000 f all kinds) or about 10% of the total number of votes cast, were not observed by Republicans, contrary to law.

    And he wants them ALL thrown out.

    At 302 Biden, that would amount to anet gain of about 135,999 for Trump.

    Turning defeat into victory since the number of votes by which Biden leads in Pennsylvania is right now, 77,666.

    If Trump can also reverse Georgia (quite likely) that leaves Biden with 270 Electoral votes.

    Trump would still need either Arizona or Nevada to win.

    Or one Elector to desert Biden, and then win in the House where there is one vote per state. (a majority = 26 of the states are needed but only a plurality within each state.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  160. Patterico, I don’t appreciate having my patriotism questioned.
    I have never done that to anyone here. Not Dustin, not anyone.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  161. @159 I’ll take an Obama era Republican over a Trump era Republican every day of the week and thrice on Sundays. 🙂

    norcal (a5428a)

  162. @161. Did you see/hear his crack about Trebek tonight- he meant well but was, as usual, completely wrong.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  163. * at 3-2 Biden or 60% to 40% Net gain is 20% or one fifth of the votes in question.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  164. I’m amused at people who get so offended online. You can call me every name in the book. I don’t care.

    norcal (a5428a) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:01 pm

    That’s a healthy attitude and I agree. I have been pretty irritated online before. It’s a sign to take a walk, consider what you’ve got going on, etc. But these ideas are very important to people. I understand why a lot of Trump fans are angry, why they might be angry at me in particular. I read a lot of pro-Trump blogs and they are quite effective at conveying the notion that every good thing is at risk by those who ‘pretend’ Biden won this election.

    I gotta say, I don’t care either, though it would be nice if Trump’s fans could see the world through my eyes for a couple of days. I feel like a certain amount of reality about what it’s like to be a black kid in a city with Alex Jones is not part of their databank. Trump fans are being pushed in a direction that is turning them into something worse. For the country, for them, and for nothing.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  165. @165. Trump is more entertaining.

    Even now, they can’t leave him alone; he’s so in their heads– new president, new VP, fired SoD, vaccine found–and all they care about is ‘will he concede?’ ‘Will he quit?’

    He loves it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  166. Nic @149. There’s a shortage of nursing teachers in the United States.

    They’re not paid enough to cause supply meet demand. Qualified teachers have other opportunities.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  167. @169 Trump may be entertaining, but he often does it at the expense of others. That is not the way to run a country. Words matter, and Presidential words matter the most.

    norcal (a5428a)

  168. 169.

    , fired SoD, vaccine found–

    Antibiotic treatment gets emergency approval – but it’s the company that Trump didn’t use/

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  169. 170 said: They’re not paid enough to cause supply meet demand.

    Well then, stop interfering in the free market and the teacher pay will rise to meet the demand.

    norcal (a5428a)

  170. From what I’ve read the nursing shortage is mainly due to demand increasing (Baby Boomers + longer life expectancies) and supply not catching up quickly enough.

    UCI has steadily expanded its nursing program since 1986, culminating in establishment of a School of Nursing (with a $40M grant from megaphilanthropists Bill and Sue Gross) in 2016.

    It’s only one example, but reading the history it’s hard to see how they could have expanded much faster.

    Dave (1bb933)

  171. @170 Then if we pay them more there will be more nursing teachers and then more nurses and eventually even more nursing teachers and the system will equalize itself at whatever the natural level is before too long.

    Nic (896fdf)

  172. @164. I’ll question it.

    Question 1: Do you respect the U.S. flag- per the flag code to-the-letter-?!?! 😉 :

    ‘No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

    (a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

    (b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.

    (c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

    (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker’s desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

    (e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.

    (f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.

    (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

    (h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

    (i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

    (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

    (k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.’

    Well? Do you? Answer the question!!!

    Question 2. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?! 😉

    Lighten up, kids. Thanksgiving turkeys are selling for $1.47/lb., at Kroger/Ralph’s today! What up with turkey prices– they imported from China now, too?!?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  173. @168. Could care less. It’s a healthy outlet for people. Creative. Fun. Better they rant online then bottle it up and go postal at a Walmart.

    But God help Joe if he ever call me a ‘lyin-dog-faced-pony-soldier’ to my face! 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  174. I suspect teachers aren’t the only limiting factor.

    There is significant (and expensive) infrastructure required to train nurses, and if it’s being fully utilized already, you can’t easily admit more students.

    Capacity for lab courses is what limits the number of students my department can teach.

    Dave (1bb933)

  175. 143. whembly (c30c83) — 11/9/2020 @ 6:18 pm

    The relief sought by the Trump campaign in this latest lawsuit is quite simply that Pennsylvania not get a say in this election.

    That would deprive Biden of 20 electoral votes. To win, Trump would still need to pick off at least one and possibly two other states.

    That would reduce the total from 538 to 518, and majority to 260.

    With Alaska and North Carolina, Trump reaches 232. Add in Georgia, it’s 248. Add in Arizona, it is 259. He still would need Nevada.

    But the constitution would allow the state legislature of Pennsylvania, which is Republican, to select the Electors if no electors were chosen on Election Day.

    Now 270 are needed but Trump has 252. With Georgia, it is 268. Now he only needs one of Arizona and Nevada.

    Republicans are not going to allow him to do this thing though.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  176. Patterico, I don’t appreciate having my patriotism questioned.
    I have never done that to anyone here. Not Dustin, not anyone.

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:10 pm

    Well you’re the one questioning it. I made no such assertion.

    If you look at Dave, an obvious moderate conservative who objects to Trump on ethical grounds, and believe Dave is the same as an antifa thug, you are defining people only on their loyalty to a president. That is not patriotic. That is seeing people through one particularly stupid lens.

    I know frosty spun this remark at 83 and my comment 33 cleverly. I don’t care. Why do you? You get to decide what you think. Re-read my comments and see that I actually took care to not define you. You define you.

    I’ve done my best to be a good person but I have indeed fallen short. You are no worse than me for falling short of good character in how you discussed your hopes for me. but I bet you’re better than that.

    Pretend I’m the most die hard tree hugging Biden fan. So what? Lots of guys like that are good people. I know to the fanatics, Harris on the ticket proves every single Biden voter wants to bail out looters or something. That’s just plain stupid. If you can’t understand this, that doesn’t make you a bad person. It makes you ignorant. You can fix that. All you got to do is think of the democrats you care about, what is good about them.

    This relates really well to this post, in my opinion. This lady who can’t let the Biden team get started, even though we all know he won the election, really won it fair, she’s hurting our people and country, and the stakes are high. She’s making the most important choices of her life, and she is not sleeping well tonight I bet.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  177. @174 Sounds like UCI has been working on it. I know there was a lot of demand down there right around the time they were looking at opening their school of Nursing, because one of my more academic cousins was trying to get in about then, he had to spend 3 yrs as a paramedic while he was on the waiting list before a spot opened up at (IIRC) UCLA.

    @176 I do, in fact, follow the flag code. Military brat. I learnt it early.

    Nic (896fdf)

  178. Even now, they can’t leave him alone; he’s so in their heads– new president, new VP, fired SoD, vaccine found–and all they care about is ‘will he concede?’ ‘Will he quit?’

    He loves it.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:12 pm

    I’ll admit it’s fascinating. He could just walk away tomorrow. He might never concede and form a weirdo government of his own or something. He is definitely in our heads, not that this reflects poorly because he is this incredibly incompetent yet powerful person.

    But why are we supposed to leave Trump alone? Is that really a serious complaint?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  179. @169 Trump may be entertaining, but he often does it at the expense of others.

    Don Rickles made a life-long career- and millions- out of it.

    Even Reagan would tell you: “That’s showbiz.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  180. @179 Doesn’t work like that sammy. You need 270 electors period.

    whembly (c30c83)

  181. @172. But the contracting is a fairly typical; private sector contracting w/aguaranteed gov’t purchase if product is successful. It’s sorta standard– it’s how they contracted w/t private sector for Apollo to get to the moon.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  182. @182. He’s never going to be out of their heads– or far from it.

    He’s the show that never ends. Which, actually, is sorta sad and unfair for Biden; the old coot can never upstage or outshine him. Took Truman’s legacy decades to emerge from FDR’s shadow.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  183. As I was standing on the stair,
    I saw a man who won’t be there.
    He won’t be there again today,
    And soon that man will go away.

    nk (1d9030)

  184. Reading at other sites that:
    – RCP says Pennsylvania has been “uncalled” for Biden.
    – CNN says Arizona has been “uncalled” as well.

    Also Gateway Pundit says that in Wisconsin, a “glitch” was found that gave 19k Trump votes to Biden, but that’s 100% unconfirmed.

    I AM NOT SAYING THIS CHANGES ANYTHING, but it is interesting news.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  185. And since you are all so thick-skinned, I guess you won’t mind if I say, “Speak for yourselves, you old fogies. There are at least two generations of younger people who are just barely aware of Trump’s existence to want him gone and no more than that.”

    nk (1d9030)

  186. “Also Gateway Pundit says that in Wisconsin, a “glitch” was found that gave 19k Trump votes to Biden, but that’s 100% unconfirmed.”

    Consider the source.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  187. Which, actually, is sorta sad and unfair for Biden; the old coot can never upstage or outshine him.

    I don’t mind that too much. If Biden does some great job, that will be a surprise but I’ll grant him the credit he is due.

    It will not take much to outshine Trump in an ethical sense, but that’s not what you meant.

    I’m just in a good mood because as nk notes, soon Trump has to go away. To cry loudly on a big stage I am sure.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  188. Davethulhu, even my most conservative friends don’t trust Gateway Pundit much.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  189. Presidential historian Jon Meacham will no longer be a paid contributor on MSNBC after he assisted Joe Biden’s speechwriting team without disclosing it on air. Meacham helped write the presumptive president-elect’s “victory” speech, delivered in Delaware on Saturday night, and others, the New York Times reported on Monday.

    ROFLMAO

    Pulitzer Prize winning idiot.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  190. @188. “All the world’s a stage, And all the men and women merely players; They have their exits and their entrances, And one man in his time plays many parts” – DCSCA

    Remember, plagiarism is ‘in’ now. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  191. Dustin (4237e0) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:31 pm

    You get to decide what you think.

    I don’t think this means what you think it means and it’s sadly ironic that the full implications of your own comment can’t be of use to you.

    frosty (f27e97)

  192. @148.@146 [Ted Cruz] He’s the Zodiac Killer, doncha know?

    ROFLMAOPIP.

    Perfect.

    I’m gonna steal that.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  193. Rcp never called Pennsylvania thus it is not a breaking “un-call”.

    urbanleftbehind (314e8f)

  194. urban, odd that they never ever called it by now then.

    “2020 Election: Battle Of The Glitches!”

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  195. DOJ’s top election crimes prosecutor quits in protest after Barr tells federal attorneys to probe unsupported allegations of voting irregularities
    ……..
    Richard Pilger, director of the elections crimes branch in the Justice Department’s Public Integrity Section, told colleagues in an email that the attorney general was issuing “an important new policy abrogating the forty-year-old Non-Interference Policy for ballot fraud investigations in the period prior to elections becoming certified and uncontested.” Pilger also forwarded the memo to colleagues in his resignation letter.
    …….
    Barr’s densely worded memo had told prosecutors they could take investigative steps such as interviewing witnesses during a period that they would normally need permission from the elections crimes section. It’s not clear what practical effect the policy would have in an election in which President Donald Trump trails President-elect Joe Biden by tens of thousands of votes in several key states.

    Barr didn’t provide any indication that the Justice Department has come up with evidence to support Trump’s claim of massive fraud in last week’s election.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  196. They’re “even-handed/both sides” to a fault.

    urbanleftbehind (314e8f)

  197. This is the model of how Trump will concede:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbD8cbmTctM

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  198. Trump is a cultural cancer.

    Trump is a Reagan Creation.
    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/9/2020 @ 5:16 pm

    Someone has hacked DCSCA. Or maybe pods.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  199. No, THIS is the model for how Tru8mp will exit:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP3t_uVbGo4

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  200. With all the GOP Senators backing Trump here, is it possible that they know something that we don’t know yet? Just suppose there IS evidence of ballot stuffing — with mail-in ballots it’s not impossible. Wouldn’t that be a b*tch?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  201. The claim (the only claim that I can imagine) has to be that tens of thousands of manufactured “main-in” ballots were injected into the process. Hopefully there’s an audit trail, and also hopefully they signature envelopes still exist, so that the provenance of ballots can be examined.

    I really don’t think that anything will come of this — on the “they aren’t that stupid” theory — but maybe they just expect to get away with it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  202. Trump Plans PAC in Hopes of Keeping Hold on G.O.P.
    President Trump is planning to form a so-called leadership political action committee, a federal fund-raising vehicle that will potentially let him retain his hold on the Republican Party even when he is out of office, officials said on Monday.
    ……..
    Such committees can accept donations of up to $5,000 per donor per year — far less than the donation limits for the committees formed by Mr. Trump’s campaign and the Republican National Committee — but a leadership PAC could accept donations from an unlimited number of people. It could also accept donations from other political action committees.
    ……..
    A Trump campaign spokesman, Tim Murtaugh, said the committee had been in the works for a while.

    “The president always planned to do this, win or lose,” Mr. Murtaugh said, “so he can support candidates and issues he cares about, such as combating voter fraud.”
    ………

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  203. I say the above because I cannot believe that the GOP doesn’t understand the downside here. If they go to the wall with Trump their party will die with him. Unless they are f’king sure that the election was stolen, they need to walk radially away and not look back.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  204. Patterico, I don’t appreciate having my patriotism questioned.
    I have never done that to anyone here. Not Dustin, not anyone.

    I have decided to ban you. I don’t appreciate someone using the kind of language you used about Dustin, and having perused other comments of yours as of late, it does not seem like a shocking aberration. Goodbye.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  205. “And, so, Mr Trump, you have two options. You can go to trial on 57 counts of tax evasion, which will put you in federal prison for the rest of your short life, because you are guilty, guilty, guilty, or you can take the deal here: plead guilty to one felony of your choice, surrender your passport, and agree to stay out of politics, of any form, for the rest of your life.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  206. At least the people crying “Fraud!” are being totally principled and consistent about it.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  207. I think that people ought to start filing papers with their state SecState for a new right-of-center party because this one seems anxious to self-destruct.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  208. KM @205-With all the GOP Senators backing Trump here, is it possible that they know something that we don’t know yet? Just suppose there IS evidence of ballot stuffing — with mail-in ballots it’s not impossible. Wouldn’t that be a b*tch?

    I think the answer is in my post 207.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  209. At least the people crying “Fraud!” are being totally principled and consistent about it.

    “Trump Russia Collusion”

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  210. Calling a police officer a pig or any variant of that is a great way to get booted from here.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  211. “Trump Russia Collusion”

    You keep posting that. Is it supposed to mean something?

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  212. Duh.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  213. I think the answer is in my post 207.

    Mine is in 210. I guess we shouldn’t expect Trump to behave as an ex-President either. But he’s in such a glass house and that whole idea of not prosecuting ex-presidents for crimes they’ve committed might fall by the wayside in his case.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  214. 210.“And, so, Mr Trump, you have two options. You can go to trial on 57 counts of tax evasion, which will put you in federal prison for the rest of your short life, because you are guilty, guilty, guilty, or you can take the deal here: plead guilty to one felony of your choice, surrender your passport, and agree to stay out of politics, of any form, for the rest of your life.”

    Lori Laughlin will do more time than Nixon ever did; or Trump ever will.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  215. @204. Well, K, his favorite film is Patton but Spiro just brings laughter- and a reminder of more poor Nixon judgment. 70’s nostalgia: my late mother had a Spiro Agnew wrist watch- it ran backwards. And a book titled, ‘The Wit And Wisdom of Spiro Agnew.’ Paperback: 175 blank pages.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  216. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, and I’ll keep saying it. It’s not over till it’s over.

    Ballots are still being tabulated. This election saw the highest turnout in history, with the largest number of mail-in ballots submitted ever. It’s going to take time to count all the votes. But as updates come in, drip by drip, Biden’s lead increases. The reason why is because Democrats overwhelmingly voted by mail, and Biden is winning on average 78% of mail-in ballots.

    Trump can file all the frivolous lawsuits he wants, but they’ll be thrown out of court as being without merit.

    There will be a recount in Georgia, mandated by state law. The odds that it will change the vote count in Trump’s favor are slim to none. There are also two runoffs for the Senate in Georgia, the outcome of which could determine the majority.

    Trump may call for recounts in other states, but unless they’re mandated by law, he’ll have to pay for them. And the odds the vote count will change in Trump’s favor are slim to none. Plus, it will cost tens of millions. His campaign doesn’t have that kind of money, because they blew $1 billion on stupid super spreader rallies to no effect other than disease transmission.

    All that’s left is the temper tantrum. Trump will never concede. He will never admit to being a one-term loser. It’s going to be denial, accusations of electoral fraud, cries of conspiracies, election theft, threats of lawsuits, and on and on for the next two months, probably the next four years.

    Howbeit, the states will certify their final vote tallies by or on Dec. 8, so the electors can be appointed. The electoral college will convene on Dec. 14 and vote. The newly elected Congress will certify the electoral vote on Jan. 6. The next president will be sworn in on Jan. 20.

    There is absolutely nothing Trump can do to prevent that from happening. But he can disrupt the transition of power, which he is. By tradition, the outgoing incumbent leaves a note on the Resolute Desk for the incoming president, wishing him well. Also, there’s a mutual limousine ride to the inauguration, for a peaceful transfer of power. Does anyone seriously think Trump is capable of either? I don’t. I think he’ll be as rude and crude as he always has been. He’ll have to be dragged, kicking and screaming like a spoiled child, out of the Oval Office.

    It is shameful that prominent Republicans are not condemning his protestations. They have their eyes on Georgia, where the runoffs could determine the Senate majority. More, they have their eyes on 2022, the midterms, and 2024. 70 million people did vote for Trump, after all, and they don’t want to lose that base. But pandering to them is a losing proposition. The more the GOP goes all in for Trump, the more they lose.

    We will see what happens on Dec. 8. We will see what happens on Dec. 14. We will see what happens on Jan. 6. We will see what happens on Jan. 20. Then it will be over. Then, and not until then.

    Until then, we just have to get trough the mean time in between.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  217. Is there such a thing as “The Office of the President-Elect” ???

    And if so, is there a budget line for it and how much does it cost the taxpayers?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  218. Is there such a thing as “The Office of the President-Elect” ???

    And if so, is there a budget line for it and how much does it cost the taxpayers?

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/9/2020 @ 11:11 pm

    That annoyed me with Obama. It’s good to get your people informed for a little while before they are running things, but no need to add pomp. I think the funding for the transition is ten million, but at this level I’m sure it’s way more in reality.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  219. You keep posting that. Is it supposed to mean something?

    Yes, he wants to make sure we don’t forget about this:

    To: Donald J. Trump, Jr.

    Good morning

    Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting.

    The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

    This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump – helped along by Aras and Emin.

    What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly?

    I can also send this info to your father via Rhona, but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first.

    From: Donald J. Trump, Jr.

    Thanks Rob I appreciate that. I am on the road at the moment but perhaps I just speak to Emin first. Seems we have some time and if it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer. Could we do a call first thing next week when I am back?

    Best,

    Don

    Dave (1bb933)

  220. Yeah, I figured that’s what he meant.

    In this age of short attention spans no one can deny that incessant reminders are an invaluable public service.

    Thanks, BnP!

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  221. 184. whembly (c30c83) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:38 pm

    @179 Doesn’t work like that sammy. You need 270 electors period.

    It’s an open questiom, but I think the plain meaning is it is a majority of the Electoral votes <b? cast.

    Three elections had Electoral votes missing: 1789, 1864 and 1868, but in all three cases it made no difference so here is no historical precedent.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d7dd8)

  222. Electoral votes <i? cast.

    New York appointed its electors too late in 1788/9 – the other two were related to the Civil War. The last time a state legislature directly chose electors was in 1876 – the newly admitted sate of Colorado. South Carolina’s electors were chosen by its state legislature all the way through 1860. Otherwise this stopped by 1836.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d7dd8)

  223. Electoral votes cast.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d7dd8)

  224. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 11/9/2020 @ 11:09 pm

    The reason why is because Democrats overwhelmingly voted by mail, and Biden is winning on average 78% of mail-in ballots.

    It is not that Democrats, or people who voted mainly for Democrats voted overwhelmingly by mail, but that an overwhelming majority of the absentee ballots were for Biden.

    In New York only 16% or so of the vote was by mail. In Alaska, some 45%. Some states of course, only have mail in votes (sometimes with the addition of drop boxes or drop in sites on Election Day (whatever Colorado has)

    There will be a recount in Georgia, mandated by state law. The odds that it will change the vote count in Trump’s favor are slim to none. There are also two runoffs for the Senate in Georgia, the outcome of which could determine the majority.

    The Republicans are charging there are anomalies in the statistics (which probably I would assume have simple explanations – the argument is that Trump’s percentage of the black vote increased, so where did the extra votes for Biden come from?) or perhaps they point to other problems.

    His campaign…blew $1 billion on stupid super spreader rallies to no effect other than disease transmission.

    Trump is reported to be contemplating more rallies.

    By tradition, the outgoing incumbent leaves a note on the Resolute Desk for the incoming president, wishing him well. Also, there’s a mutual limousine ride to the inauguration, for a peaceful transfer of power. Does anyone seriously think Trump is capable of either?

    The friendly note, no. The limousine ride, yes. After all, it would keep him in the spotlight a bit longer.

    He’ll have to be dragged, kicking and screaming like a spoiled child, out of the Oval Office.

    Michael Cohen says he’ll simply go to Mar-a-Lago for the end of the year and never come back. I don’t think that Trump will leave town in advance and miss the show, and, in any case. circa December 23 is too early.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d7dd8)

  225. Is there such a thing as “The Office of the President-Elect” ???

    Not unless the President-Elect is sworn in:

    The Constitution, Article VI, Clause 3
    The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

    Is the President-Elect sworn in as President-Elect before he is sworn in as President?

    nk (1d9030)

  226. Although it may seem like vainglorious puffery for the dubious benefit of the winner of the election, what The Office of the President Elect really is, I think, is just another layer of fat on the love handles of the bureaucracy, created by Congress to provide jobs for their ex-staffers and campaign workers.

    nk (1d9030)

  227. Dustin (4237e0) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:34 pm

    But why are we supposed to leave Trump alone? Is that really a serious complaint?

    Why were people supposed to stop complaining about HRC or BO after 2016? It’s the same comment if you believe Trump lost.

    frosty (f27e97)

  228. Again this week, I made the mistake of asking some of my fellow Republicans whether they would rather have a dictator Trump or a President Biden. Don’t do it. Don’t ask them. You will not like what you hear from some of them.

    Scary times.

    noel (9fead1)

  229. I don’t remember where I saw it, but there was a picture of two guys with t-shirts that read: “I’D RATHER BE RUSSIAN THAN DEMOCRAT”

    And I have seen this attitude from friends who otherwise are well educated and rational people… or at least I thought they were.

    noel (9fead1)

  230. @233 You should ask them what they think about you that you need to phrase the question as dictator vs president. You probably won’t like what you hear then either.

    Someone asking me a question framed like that would probably get an answer designed to tweak them.

    frosty (f27e97)

  231. Indeed, noel.

    A lot of that is fear of Biden. It was worse when Obama was elected. Folks just knew he was a secret Muslim from Africa, ready to do all kinds of insidious stuff. Michelle was secretly a man. You know, all that. He passed a very bad healthcare bill, barely, and he did give Iran a lot of money (in a roundabout way, but that was stupid). We could have done better, but it wasn’t that bad.

    Many of the people I care about are Trump fans. They really do think the nation’s at stake. It makes the ‘stop the steal’ seem like a glimmer of hope for a happy warrior, not the country damaging lie that it really is.

    The hidden joke is I do think Trump is basically just plain terrible, and to a Trump fan I probably sound a lot like the unreasonable people who were furious with Obama from the beginning. This is a part of the reason I just don’t talk politics much with friends and family.

    Some are insisting that Biden going to be horrible, and everyone who voted against Trump is culpable for these end of the republic. Give the guy a chance.

    For all this cheating and election rigging Trump was talking about before he was even nominated, Trump did serve as president. The GOP won a lot of tough races. Let’s have a little common sense.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  232. “Trump Russia Collusion”

    You keep posting that. Is it supposed to mean something?

    lurker (d8c5bc) — 11/9/2020 @ 9:59 pm

    I think it’s shorthand for “I’m sad that people view my team’s political mascot as a dishonest loser.”

    Could also mean “I don’t understand how evidence works.”

    Time123 (441f53)

  233. And I have seen this attitude from friends who otherwise are well educated and rational people… or at least I thought they were.

    noel (9fead1) — 11/10/2020 @ 6:12 am

    It’s hard to miss that Trump’s whole candidacy was born in hatred of black men (that Obama was secretly too african), of calm people, of those who could work with democrats. Since then it’s been full of obnoxious trolling, intended to make people angry. Dividing the nation, tearing down our faith in it, weirdos ‘liberating’ michigan from its governor.

    No wonder Putin liked that guy.

    It’s very hard to change a heart that will respond to any straight question like it’s a crime to ask.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  234. Dustin (4237e0) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:34 pm

    But why are we supposed to leave Trump alone? Is that really a serious complaint?

    Why were people supposed to stop complaining about HRC or BO after 2016? It’s the same comment if you believe Trump lost.

    frosty (f27e97) — 11/10/2020 @ 6:03 am

    Frosty, I’ll agree with your point after 2 things happen.

    1. Biden is sworn in. At that point it’s all his. He asked for it, he owns it. I don’t want to hear about how Trump left it unless they’re also telling me what they’re doing to fix it.

    2. Trump follows the tradition of stepping back from the public after the next president is elected. W is a great example of this tradition. Obama is a middling poor one. Bill i can’t grade because Hillary was still active.

    Time123 (441f53)

  235. Dustin (4237e0) — 11/10/2020 @ 6:18 am

    They really do think the nation’s at stake … not the country damaging lie that it really is.

    What happened to the whole world literally being ruined? He’s just country damaging now?

    frosty (8f24d7)

  236. Why were people supposed to stop complaining about HRC or BO after 2016? It’s the same comment if you believe Trump lost.

    Frosty, as usual this is a dishonest twisting of my comment, basically impossible to respond to because you will just do it again. If you were honest you would note that I have criticized Obama and Hillary after 2016. History is good to discuss. You are forcing this notion I’m some defender of Team D. I could restate my point but I’ll go back to ignoring you.

    What happened to the whole world literally being ruined? He’s just country damaging now?

    frosty (8f24d7) — 11/10/2020 @ 6:36 am

    I’ve explained this to you at least three time. Democracies do not go to war against eachother, for the most part, and Russia’s efforts to undermine trust in elections in Germany, France, the UK, and the USA are indeed a major threat to the world. Romney was really on the ball on this. Your attempt to say I changed this point because Trump’s conduct has harmed the country as well is frankly just stupid. Again, I’ll go back to ignoring you.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  237. The first step to recovery, comrades, is disengaging from the hazardous activity or environment, and there’s no better time than the present to disengage from Trump. Let him fade away while every day and in every way we get better and better.

    nk (1d9030)

  238. Meanwhile, in Georgia, there is this.

    https://perduesenate.com/category/press-releases/

    The management of Georgia elections has become an embarrassment for our state. Georgians are outraged, and rightly so. We have been clear from the beginning: every legal vote cast should be counted. Any illegal vote must not. And there must be transparency and uniformity in the counting process. This isn’t hard. This isn’t partisan. This is American. We believe when there are failures, they need to be called out — even when it’s in your own party. There have been too many failures in Georgia elections this year and the most recent election has shined a national light on the problems. While blame certainly lies elsewhere as well, the buck ultimately stops with the Secretary of State. The mismanagement and lack of transparency from the Secretary of State is unacceptable. Honest elections are paramount to the foundation of our democracy. The Secretary of State has failed to deliver honest and transparent elections. He has failed the people of Georgia, and he should step down immediately.

    Note there is lots of rhetoric, but not a single specific. Our Senate candidates believe the future is more of this garbage — baseless accusations that makes Trump and his ardent followers happy. Funny thing is that voting in Georgia has been an issue in the recent past because of thorough purging of the voter rolls.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  239. 2. Trump follows the tradition of stepping back from the public after the next president is elected. W is a great example of this tradition. Obama is a middling poor one. Bill i can’t grade because Hillary was still active.

    Time123 (441f53) — 11/10/2020 @ 6:24 am

    Interesting comment.

    I think Bill was fine, at least when you consider what Bush faced his first year, Sandy Gerber, the war in Iraq (that the Clintons inspired). Bill coulda done a lot of damage but he was presidential and smart. Something about Bill will always rub me the wrong way, but he knew his job and did his job correctly, and I wish the democrats tried harder to understand that.

    Obama actively campaigned against Trump, but to me Trump is special. A matter of opinion and discretion, but I would hope that at some point of corrosion and danger to the republic, everyone would take a stand.

    Trump belongs in the defendant’s chair. therefore he’s somewhat entitled to say all the horrible lies he’s going to say. I will be profoundly disappointed if the DOJ ‘moves on’ dot org. Until Trump’s convicted, I think we’ll have tens of millions of people who simply do not accept reality. But that comes at a price. Like my vote against Trump.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  240. Appalled at 243. That was a joint statement from Perdue and Loeffler, and like I said in my comment 103, it’s a shame that McConnell needs at least one of the two slime buckets for a GOP majority in the Senate.

    nk (1d9030)

  241. As wise as I usually find nk, I really don’t want Trump to fade into the sunset. I also don’t want Biden to tip the scales or make Trump’s criminal conviction an issue he interferes with.

    With a bit of pressure, Trump would squeal and so would most of his associates. It wouldn’t take too much of that before his supporters all said they were really Trump haters the whole time.

    I also think it would be awesome if Biden’s campaign, where he did nothing impressive ever, was how he handled his presidency. Naive of course.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  242. 238. Dustin (4237e0) — 11/10/2020 @ 6:20 am

    It’s hard to miss that Trump’s whole candidacy was born in hatred of black men (that Obama was secretly too african),

    The claim that Obama was born in Kenya had nothing to do with hatred of black men – it had to do with being anti-illegal immigrant (and by extension other things that work against the foreign born. (here that they not eligible to be elected president)

    Not having enough real cases, they made it up.

    The whole philosophy is “gotcha” regardless of whether there is actually something wrong or bad about the person caught in a gotcha.

    It was pretty inevitable they would make up some false gotchas.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)


  243. Hari Sevugan
    @HariSevugan
    ·
    .@kaitlancollins just reported WH staff are starting to look for jobs. Employers considering them should know there are consequences for hiring anyone who helped Trump attack American values. Find out how at the Trump Accountability Project.

    https://trumpaccountability.net
    __ _

    The healing continues.
    _

    harkin (8fadc8)

  244. Dustin (4237e0) — 11/10/2020 @ 6:20 am

    It’s hard to miss that Trump’s whole candidacy was born in hatred of black men

    The data from 2016 and 2020 don’t support this. It’s a narrative I hear a lot though.

    frosty (77f54c)

  245. I hate Slime Buckets come lately much more than I hate born Slime Buckets. If I were a voter in Georgia, I’m going Perdue-Warnock.

    urbanleftbehind (5b306e)

  246. I just met with @VP-elect Pence at the @WhiteHouse to offer our support for a smooth, seamless transition of power: http://go.wh.gov/Gi53Jr

    https://twitter.com/VP44/status/796853101978390532

    Biden’s a better man than trump.

    harkin, that is a disturbing tweet you quoted, but remember, the fringe on both sides likes to focus on the other fringe. Dave isn’t Antifa, most Biden voters do not want all RNC volunteers in 2016 and 2020 to be unemployable. I agree with you that that organization is evil, at any rate.

    Trump and his conspirators should be prosecuted, but that’s about all I hope for.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  247. Dustin (4237e0) — 11/10/2020 @ 6:52 am

    Again, I’ll go back to ignoring you.

    Why make promises you can’t keep?

    frosty (77f54c)

  248. As wise as I usually find nk,

    Thank you, Dustin!

    I really don’t want Trump to fade into the sunset.

    Ah, you’re young! I’m an old man and I want Trump to be the first memory I lose. 😉

    nk (1d9030)

  249. About those dead people voting in Michigan…

    To hear some people tell it — including a handful of prominent Republicans, such as members of President Trump’s family and supporters like former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and former acting Director of National Intelligence Richard Grenell — you might think that Democrats were using dead people to steal Michigan’s Electoral College votes from Trump.

    But, like much of the misinformation circulated online this week by some Trump supporters, the claim falls apart under scrutiny. A CNN analysis of the claim and the purported backing for it did not find a single instance of that happening.
    One of the supposed pieces of evidence was a list that circulated on Twitter Thursday evening allegedly containing names, birth dates, and zip codes for registered voters in Michigan. The origin of the list and the identity of the person who first made it public are not known.

    CNN examined 50 of the more than 14,000 names on the list by taking the first 25 names on the list and then 25 more picked at random. We ran the names through Michigan’s Voter Information database to see if they requested or returned a ballot. We then checked the names against publicly available records to see if they were indeed dead.

    Of the 50, 37 were indeed dead and had not voted, according to the voter information database. Five people out of the 50 had voted — and they are all still alive, according to public records accessed by CNN. The remaining eight are also alive but didn’t vote.

    The sample CNN reviewed is not representative, but the trend was clear — not a single one of the names examined was of a dead person voting.

    Dave (1bb933)

  250. #250

    Convince me that a GOP Senate is not a vehicle for rump Trumpism, and I might vote for one of the two. I am not seeing it, though. Perdue was Trump-y before Trump. Loeffler has been engaging in financial self-dealing that needs investigation.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  251. I hate Slime Buckets come lately much more than I hate born Slime Buckets. If I were a voter in Georgia, I’m going Perdue-Warnock.

    I agree with you at every level, urbanleftbehind, and the odds are with us. Perdue has a record of being what the Georgians want to vote for, while Loeffler bought the job, $3.2 million mega-donor to Republkicans the last time I looked.

    nk (1d9030)

  252. The claim that Obama was born in Kenya had nothing to do with hatred of black men – it had to do with being anti-illegal immigrant (and by extension other things that work against the foreign born. (here that they not eligible to be elected president)

    I have a lot of family in Iran and one of my loved ones was unable to make a timely visit to Iran while people cheered ‘Muslim ban’. i’ve always been thin skinned about this stuff. I recall seeing a lot of this stuff when I worked for Bush’s re-election too (so soon after 9/11, right when the great film Team America was in theaters).

    Respectfully, I don’t agree that Trump’s ideology is not often about hatred on the basis of race. One of Trump’s first legal problems surrounded why they were rejecting all those rental applications marked “C” and if that “C” meant colored (it did).

    I’d say most Americans could accept a decent ‘tall walls and wide gates’ outcome. There’s a real problem with Mexican illegal immigrants and criminal conduct. I know this so well I probably shouldn’t even talk about it. But then here comes Trump flailing that ‘they’re rapists‘. It’s one thing to soberly discuss criminals being deported. It’s another to make immigration an issue of fear and prejudice. Most of us who have worked a blue collar job (at least in Texas) have met Mexican nationals who work incredibly hard for their children. These folks definitely are not making America worse or taking anything from society. There are immigrants who do wind up taking and harming. It wouldn’t be difficult to distinguish the groups, but fear won’t lead us there.

    Trump’s lies that he had secret sources on Obama’s real African origin was disgusting. It was like those scammers who deliberately start out stupid so they weed out smart people. You’re probably a better man than I am to give him the benefit of the doubt. I can’t do it.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  253. “his office has “not seen any sort of credible examples” of fraud or voter disenfranchisement.”

    Which is another way of saying “His office has never looked in a serious or consistent manner.” Civil servants using any excuses possible to not be responsible for something is no news to me.

    All the liberals and conservatives willfully blind about what the left’s Occupy Main Street division did this year are trying to brave-face the issue with exhortations toward normalcy and togetherness that are entirely absent from the lefty up-and-comers, the lawyers, and the candidates themselves prior to their victory. It’s as though you’ve regressed to your idol Biden’s mental state: “C’mon, man!”

    It’s not going to work, especially since you never actually allowed the Trump team a smooth transition in the first place (laying your legal landmines and inserting your own people secretly does not make the action any less malicious or worthy of open mistrust once discovered.) This routine mendacity, not any ‘Russian disinformation’ or ‘Russian interference’, is the primary reason people distrust the election process.

    Remember that everything that happens in the future: You invited it, and you deserve it, several times over, without mercy, and without an ounce of regret or a chance at forgiveness. Your behavior was essentially indistinguishable from the foreign spies you told tall tales about, and your punishments should likewise be more severe.

    AG Bane (77f099)

  254. Trump Accountability Project.

    If they are going to punish people, mainly through threatening secondary boycotts, for saying the wrong thing on Facebook, how much more so for those who held public office?

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  255. And all the Trumps and Trumpkins seem
    To fade into a bad dream
    But some Trumpkins still ain’t heard the news
    The people sing their song again
    Republicans will all please refrain
    This country’s got the disappearing Orange blues

    nk (1d9030)

  256. Here is the weeds on the voter fraud charges in Georgia.

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/georgia-press-conference-on-election-count-updates-transcript-november-9

    The Georgia Senators did not like what they heard, I guess because they issued their little jeremiad afterwards. But they did not refute a bit of it.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  257. Mr. or Ms. AG Bane, a person who writes as well as you deserved a better person than Donald Trump on whom to waste their literacy, and you have my sympathy.

    nk (1d9030)

  258. @258,

    once again, a trump supporting is accusing other of things that they can’t prove, and in some cases things that have been disproven. You’re using that unfounded conspiracy theory to justify Trump doing the things you think were done to him.

    I don’t know you, but based on this comment you seem like someone that doesn’t care about the United States, our laws, or our people.

    I’ll take a minute to go through you nonsense in detail

    “his office has “not seen any sort of credible examples” of fraud or voter disenfranchisement.”

    Which is another way of saying “His office has never looked in a serious or consistent manner.” Civil servants using any excuses possible to not be responsible for something is no news to me.

    Wrong. It’s another way to saying “We don’t have sufficient probable cause to open an investigation.

    All the liberals and conservatives willfully blind about what the left’s Occupy Main Street division did this year

    Vague claim of wrong doing that hasn’t been supported with evidence.

    It’s not going to work, especially since you never actually allowed the Trump team a smooth transition in the first place (laying your legal landmines and inserting your own people secretly does not make the action any less malicious or worthy of open mistrust once discovered.) This routine mendacity, not any ‘Russian disinformation’ or ‘Russian interference’, is the primary reason people distrust the election process.

    The SC was appointed because Trump fired Comey to stop a lawful investigation. He has only himself to blame.
    Russia actions, both interference by hacking the DNC and their misinformation have been detailed extensively.

    Remember that everything that happens in the future: You invited it, and you deserve it, several times over, without mercy, and without an ounce of regret or a chance at forgiveness. Your behavior was essentially indistinguishable from the foreign spies you told tall tales about, and your punishments should likewise be more severe.

    It’s like Rich Lowery said, you vote for Trump as a way to flip the bird to people you don’t like. You love him because he hates the people you hate. You justify it with conspiracy theories and ignorance.

    Time123 (441f53)

  259. Stop the Steal!

    The number of known mail ballots in:

    FL: 4,855,487 (Trump won)
    PA: 2,629,342 (Biden won)
    NC: 985,857 (Trump likely won)
    IA: 691,544 (Trump won)
    WI: 1,303,819 (Biden won)
    GA: 1,543,981 (Biden won)
    TX: 974,752 (Trump won)

    Don’t let anyone misinform you about mail ballots.

    Er, never mind.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  260. #258

    Frankly, the comments of the Georgia Lt Governor don’t mean much. He is well removed from the nuts and bolts of the count. If you are interested in the bureaucrat level view of the count in Georgia, take a look at my #261.

    That said, the reason that many believe there is voter fraud is because Trump said so and some of his flying monkeys have been flinging poo.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  261. 256. nk (1d9030) — 11/10/2020 @ 7:39 am

    , while Loeffler bought the job, $3.2 million mega-donor to Republicans the last time I looked.

    I think it would be more accurate to say it was sold to her.

    Governor Brian Kemp of Georgia (who possibly didn’t vote in this election, having gone into maybe-maybe-maybe-this-person-might-get-Covid quarantine after it was too late to request an absentee ballot) was looking for someone who could and would self-finance a Senate campaign (and who was a reliable Republican) and he found a customer whom w thought could also sin. Doug Collins did not like being put aside.

    Kelly Loeffler was not a big Trump fan, but Doug Collins went all out on Trump and maybe guns, and . Kelly Loeffler followed hm there, becoming therefore a hack – and a dumb one too maybe.

    As for Brian Kemp vote problem, the Centers for Disease Control modified its quarantine recommendations (thatdo not ave the force of law anywhere. but have moral impact) for that:

    https://www.ajc.com/politics/cdc-says-georgia-gov-kemp-and-others-can-go-vote-while-in-quarantine/SJWD4BMD7NCYLPCGPUVDFMIEGY

    Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp and other voters who are quarantining themselves because of COVID-19 can still vote in person, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Sunday.

    The CDC said voters who are sick or in quarantine can vote if they take steps to protect poll workers and other voters, including wearing a mask and maintaining social distance.

    Kemp [sic, apostrophe s missing in original] ability to vote in this year’s election came into question Friday when he self-quarantined after close contact with U.S. Rep. Drew Ferguson, who tested positive for the coronavirus.

    It hardly gets noticed that, strictly speaking, masks and social distancing are alternatives!

    You do one or the other. Masks are for you are within 6 feet or 8 feet or 3 feet or 15 feet or whatever, of other people for longer than 10 or 15 minutes.

    They’re not paying attention to places with bad air.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  262. Hmm! You know what, Dustin? I’ll trust a Texan when it comes to dealing with snakes. Maybe we shouldn’t count this sidewinder dead, till we’ve chopped off the head and buried it.

    nk (1d9030)

  263. Trump openly announced his plans to steal the election:

    “We’ll want to have — get rid of the ballots and you’ll have a very — we’ll have a very peaceful — there won’t be a transfer, frankly. There’ll be a continuation.”

    1) “Get rid of the ballots.”
    2) “I win.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  264. 266. * errata

    I meant to type win, not sin.

    Brian Kemp of Georgia….was looking for someone who could and would self-finance a Senate campaign (and who was a reliable Republican) and he found a customer whom he thought could also win.

    In other words, he thought a woman would do better.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  265. Hmm! You know what, Dustin? I’ll trust a Texan when it comes to dealing with snakes. Maybe we shouldn’t count this sidewinder dead, till we’ve chopped off the head and buried it.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/10/2020 @ 8:28 am

    hahaha

    Well said my friend.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  266. And I find it incredulous that Trump preferred Collins from the get go. Melania must have had some serious side-eye ready to go if Kelly Loeffler ever walked into the same room; she is New South-ern Ivanka personified.

    urbanleftbehind (5b306e)

  267. Would the 2 Georgia incumbents be hungry for a skinny bailout package focusing on Airlines because of the Delta factor?

    urbanleftbehind (5b306e)

  268. Collins was the Trumpiest Trump suckup that ever sucked up. Kemp’s one moment of independence was choosing Loeffler instead and he has been paying for it ever since.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  269. And I find it incredulous that Trump preferred Collins from the get go. Melania must have had some serious side-eye ready to go if Kelly Loeffler ever walked into the same room; she is New South-ern Ivanka personified.

    urbanleftbehind (5b306e) — 11/10/2020 @ 8:45 am

    I’m not sure that Melania is able to move her eyes sideways after all the work.

    Time123 (797615)

  270. “You love him because he hates the people you hate. You justify it with conspiracy theories and ignorance.”

    That’s the sad reality

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  271. “Vague claim of wrong doing that hasn’t been supported with evidence.”

    Sworn affadavits by witnesses in every single case are, in fact evidence. In fact, they’re evidence that I don’t believe the Russia investigation ever actually saw! (People would expound up and down about interference in public, then, when before Congress, in secret, and under oath, they would say ‘yeah we actually didn’t see anything’)

    Multiple state AG’s filing amicus briefs in support of these actions are, I suppose, only doing it so Rudy has more viewers for his cigar commercials, or whatever lame rationalizations you tend to favor today.

    “Biden’s a better man than trump.”

    Both liars, but one actually has talent, likeability, energy, and a track record of results.

    “a person who writes as well as you deserved a better person than Donald Trump on whom to waste their literacy, and you have my sympathy.”

    When another person delivers results that can inspire me as well, they can get my erudition. So far only Trump has done so consistently.

    AG Bane (57c883)

  272. “The healing continues.”

    https://i.imgur.com/CIzANwi.jpg

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  273. I’m not sure that Melania is able to move her eyes sideways after all the work.

    I’m not sure that Melania has needed any work other than to have a couple or four molars removed to hollow her cheeks and emphasize her cheekbones*. Models’ training includes developing a stone face to avoid cracking their makeup and developing wrinkles, which said training can be as good as paralyzing the facial muscles with botox.

    *Marlene Dietrich had that famously done, too.

    nk (1d9030)

  274. When it’s all said and done, it will be revealed that it wasnt the relaxation of initial doubts of his fidelity to conservatism that made Glenn Beck and Mr. FYF himself, Ben Shapiro, plus numerous other politicos, beg back on the train, but something similar to how Suge Knight treated Vanilla Ice on a hotel balcony.

    urbanleftbehind (5b306e)

  275. 261. I find this sort of thing quite interesting. You are getting facts

    Notes on the Rev transcript

    1. working with a signer = a sign language interpreter.

    2. I know there were some questions mainly concerning the military balance Military ballots! obviously.

    3. thousands of people show up to vote in person who had their absentee ballots canceled, which is a process that’s legal in the state of Georgia.

    In sme states it is not possible. In New York it is not necessary to do anything to cancel an absentee ballot, and votes cast in person take priority, which is why no absentee ballots can be counted until the close of polls on Election Day and they need to be checked against the names of people who voted. In practice, they wait until all absentee ballots that are going to be counted have arrived and count them all at once. Absentee ballots can arrive until today, November 10, so today is when New York State starts counting absentee ballots – about 16% of all votes cast in the 2020 election.

    In Georgia, they could either turn in the mail ballot, in which case they vote regularly, and their vote gets counted with the other people who voted in person; or sign an affidavit and their vote gets put aside and counted if their mail ballot is not counted, which could be because they didn’t return it, or it was missing a signature or failed signature verification, or it didn’t get counted because it arrived after the polls closed on Election Day, which is the deadline in Georgia.

    4. provisionals ballots. The ones I just talked about. When they didn’t bring in their absentee ballot to be cancelled.

    5. universal database for your county, Universal = all precincts use the same database.

    6. That is not a glitch. That is not a software issue. actually that is a software issue, just not the kind people were thinking. Not understanding how the software worked caused a configuration error which caused a reporting issue in that small Michigan county.

    7. 484 total votes that they were off and it was all inside the provisional bucket = 484 valid provisional ballots were not included in the first reported (uploaded) vote totals from Fulton County. And 126 of the provisional ballots were mistakenly classified and scanned and reported as absentee. also 358 damaged provisional ballots were nit counted – they get counted by duplicating them

    8. BMD = Bsllot Marking Device. Can be used to mark a ballot. Designed for use by a person with multiple handicaps. In Georgia everybody sppsrently uses one of these things when voting in person. They don’t use a pen or sharpie except when voting at home

    9. . We had an average two minute wait time. Like in a lot of places, the absentee and early in person voting lowered the number voting on Election Day.

    10. DREs. – A previous kind of way Georgia had for voting, which did not create a paper ballot.

    11. We had 2.7 million early in person votes. We had about a little over 1.3 million absentee votes, and 975,000 in person election day votes. so many people used the service road the highway had fast traffic.

    12. ballot harvesting. I do not know what the provisions of Georgia law are about this. Some presumably happened, and also double voting and ineligible to vote people voting. Not organized on a large scale to Gabriel Sterling;s knowledge apparently.

    13. Listen, we understand that there’s one side of this country that is ebullient, they’re ecstatic, they’re in the streets partying. I guess COVID’s over.

    He stepped away a bit from his impartiality here.

    14.And the president, to a strong degree, has a responsibility to the 70 million people or so who voted for him to say, “I’m going to go through all the legal means to make sure your vote’s defended.” We understand that.

    This is nice spin. It could be like that but it isn’t. Trump’s not talking that way.

    Clearly, Gabriel Sterling is a Republican.

    15. “Help don’t help unless it helps.” What is supposed to be help, doesn’t do any good unless what they do actually fixes things.

    16. volunteer and work hard in these elections.

    “Volunteer” is a carryover from when election day workers were paid less.

    17. if I get a deck of a thousand votes and I give it to people to count, it will come up with a different thing every time. If I give it to a computer to count, 99% of the time, it’s going to come up with the same outcome.

    Explains why recounts can give slightly different totals.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  276. Sworn affadavits by witnesses in every single case are, in fact evidence.

    The problem is that those affidavits are based on hearsay (and in some cases hearsay within hearsay) and the lack of underlying evidence, which is why judges are tossing them. All hat allegation, no cattle evidence.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  277. @257 —

    There’s a real problem with Mexican illegal immigrants and criminal conduct. … But then here comes Trump flailing that ‘they’re rapists‘.

    Dustin, I agree with your perspective on this, and on the people who “definitely are not making America worse or taking anything from society.” I remember when I first began to take pride in living in a welcoming country. It’s possible to be too indiscriminately welcoming, at the expense of people already here and the long-term health of the society, but Trump isn’t one to comprehend the nuances of the issues. For him, it’s all winners vs. losers; great genes vs. inferior people.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  278. So much for “software glitches” affecting the outcome or being part of the “fraud”.

    President Trump and many of his supporters complained over the weekend that “software glitches” undermined the vote counts in Michigan and Georgia and argued that the problems portended wider issues in other counties and states that used the same software.

    But issues in the unofficial vote counts in Michigan’s Antrim and Oakland counties were caused by human error, not software glitches, according to reviews by the Michigan Department of State, county clerks and election security experts. Officials concluded that they were isolated cases that did not signal wider issues with vote counts elsewhere.

    And in Georgia, software issues only affected how poll workers checked in voters in two counties and delayed the reporting of results in another. The issues did not affect the counts.

    “Anyone trying to falsely connect the situations in the two states is spreading misinformation in an effort to undermine the integrity of our elections system,” said Tracy Wimmer, a spokeswoman for the Michigan Department of State.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  279. “Vague claim of wrong doing that hasn’t been supported with evidence. Sworn affadavits by witnesses in every single case are, in fact evidence. In fact, they’re evidence that I don’t believe the Russia investigation ever actually saw! (People would expound up and down about interference in public, then, when before Congress, in secret, and under oath, they would say ‘yeah we actually didn’t see anything’)

    Multiple state AG’s filing amicus briefs in support of these actions are, I suppose, only doing it so Rudy has more viewers for his cigar commercials, or whatever lame rationalizations you tend to favor today.”

    I was referring to your accusations around the Trump transition. Russian interference has been well documented at this point read part 1 of the Mueller report if you want details. The Trump claims relative to the election are still being tested. In some cases they have brought affidavits, but courts have dismissed many of the complaints for a variety of reasons. We’ll see what they find. Given that it’s coming from Trump and Rudy it’s likely they won’t find much. But the effort will enable morons and liars who don’t care about the US to claim the the election was stolen for as long as they like.

    Time123 (ae9d89)

  280. Exactly, Radagunda. And most folks want the USA to be a nation of fair play and common sense. The folks speaking the loudest about these issues, both left and right, shouldn’t be part of the conversation at all.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  281. That annoyed me with Obama.

    But it is Biden – not Obama- who is now standing up in front of televised backgrounders with that phrase emblazoned on it to ‘legitimize’ the existence of same. Is there such a thing as ‘The Office Of The President-Elect” ???? Stay-tuned for the next episide of ‘The Joe Show’ – Watch him in two days when he appears on camera for an hour after he gets his next batch of transfusions.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  282. @230. See #286. Then why is Biden advocating a fake office exists? Or has he plagiarized the concept from Obama.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  283. @230. See #286. Then why is Biden advocating a fake office exists? Or has he plagiarized the concept from Obama.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/10/2020 @ 11:27 am

    Because Biden sucks? what do you expect me to say. Biden is the price of stopping a crisis from getting worse. Now we pay the price. I sincerely hope Biden is a great leader and frankly do not consider his ‘Office of the Prez Elect’ nonsense to be important. But all signs point to Biden being a watered down leader.

    You should think more about what plagiarism is as the topic is of great interest to you. Biden reusing the concepts from his own previous administration is… not plagiarism. You had issues with him reusing slogans to evoke nostalgia to when america was greater than it is now. That’s really just a common sense thing to do, not at all unethical.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  284. ‘My faith is shaken’: The QAnon conspiracy theory faces a post-Trump identity crisis

    President Trump’s election loss and the week-long silence of “Q,” the QAnon movement’s mysterious prophet, have wrenched some believers into a crisis of faith, with factions voicing unease about their future or rallying others to stay calm and “trust the plan.”

    The uncertainty has been compounded by the abrupt public resignation, also last Tuesday, of Ron Watkins, the administrator of Q’s online sanctuary on the message board 8kun.

    Q has gone quiet before. But the abrupt lack of posts since last Tuesday — Election Day, which the anonymous figure had touted for months as a key moment of reckoning — has sparked speculation and alarm among the movement’s most ardent followers.

    Some QAnon proponents have begun to publicly grapple with reality and question whether the conspiracy theory is a hoax. “Have we all been conned?” one user wrote Saturday on 8kun.
    ……
    Ya think?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  285. A large majority of Republicans have accepted Trump’s stated belief going into the election that the only way he could lose was by fraud, e.i. that an election he lost would necessarily be illegitimate:

    Although only 18 percent of Republicans had said the results would be unreliable prior to Election Day, now 64 percent feel the same way following Biden’s victory.

    Maybe the stats would be similar in reverse if DJT had won. But it’s astonishing to see supposedly thoughtful people claiming that the election has been corrupted by a massvie conspiracy, in the face of pre-election polls consistently showing a strong likelihood that Trump would lose — after he had already lost the popular vote in 2016, when Dems assumed that a Trump victory was highly unlikely, so messing around with ballots would have seemed superfluous if anyone had wanted to do it.
    And when Trump had virtually never gained majority approval among the electorate.
    And when there was lots of evidence that many 2016 Trump voters were resolved not to vote for him again.
    And when Republican election supervisors are acting in good faith to ensure an accurate and impartial count — and getting death threats for it.

    A lot of Republicans today seem to have some version of Pauline Kael syndrome and are unable (or unwilling) to imagine that a comfortable majority of American voters do not see Trump in the same way as they and their close circle of confreres do.

    It’s shameful for an elected Republican (Lindsey Graham) to say “We win because of our ideas and we lose elections because [Democrats] cheat us.” It’s nutty to believe that the capacity for persuasion is all on the R. side and the propensity for cheating is all on the D. side.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  286. 289. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 11/10/2020 @ 11:37 am

    The uncertainty has been compounded by the abrupt public resignation, also last Tuesday, of Ron Watkins, the administrator of Q’s online sanctuary on the message board 8kun.

    Well, the purpose of rhe Anon board was probably to depress the Trump vote, because all the conspiracy theory ever said was that Trump was going to win a battle over the pedophiles very very soon. The important thing was not what it said about Trump or Democrats but what it said about Trump winning.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  287. Giukiani has an affidavit from a Democratic poll worker in Philadelphia. Some of what she says actally probably has reasonable explanations but she says:

    1. She got training she never got before.

    2. They were told, illegally, to encourage people voting at the polls to vote the straight Democratic ticket.

    3. They were told not to do any signature comparison when accepting mail ballots. And indeed, says Giuliani, Republican after election poll watchers saw that. One poll watcher could see that some of the poll workers were spending no more than one second on a ballot. (others were slower) That poll worker was standing 15 feet away from the closest row of vote acceptors – there were 3 rows, all 15 feet from each other.

    4. At early voting sites, people she knew who had asked for absentee ballots were allowed to vote (this needs further fleshing out. A provisional ballot or regular? How did she know they had requested absentee ballots?

    5. On November 4, they were told to stamp ballots as having been received on November 3 (well maybe they were, but how would anyone know?)

    Giuliani wants all possibly doubtful votes thrown out.

    He;s not mentioning the naked ballot issue. I think Republican poll watchers actually prevented them from being counted 0 and that;s maybe 10% of all mail in votes.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  288. Radegunda (20775b) — 11/10/2020 @ 12:34 pm

    It might be less astonishing if you had a more objective view. For example, you’re leaving out the massive campaign rallies for Trump as compared to no one showing up for Biden. Whether they were a good idea or not the visual imagery is inconsistent with the vote totals. It also looks like the black and hispanic vote shifted toward Trump to a degree that in any other election the R would have won. The pre-election polling was very bad and you’ve done a good job here of just focusing on the “strong likelihood that Trump would lose” aspect.

    There also are, or should be, serious issues with Biden and Harris as candidates for conservative voters. I agree that it’s probably common for R voters to be unable to understand why D voters would show up in such larger numbers for either of them. If the answer is “they just hate Trump that much” then we’ve got a problem that will only get worse.

    frosty (f27e97)

  289. Radegunda (20775b) — 11/10/2020 @ 12:34 pm

    in the face of pre-election polls consistently showing a strong likelihood that Trump would lose

    The pols were wrong. They were wronger than they were in 2016 by and large. At best a polling average in some state got it just about exactly right. But there was no error in favor of Trump or a Republican.

    The polls predicted House gains for the Democratic Party. Instead they lost seats.

    They predicted Senate seat losses so much so that a 50-50 split was optimistic for Republicans. Instead it will likely be 52-48.

    They predicted a large Electoral College victory for Donald Trump. Instead, it is small. And may be smaller than currently projected.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  290. * They predicted a large Electoral College victory for Joe Biden against Donald Trump. Instead, it is small. And may be smaller than currently projected

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  291. I;m not sure what exactly Giuliani is alleging, if he himself kows what he is alleging. Massive dumping of absentee ballots not cast by individual voters?

    In any case he wants all ballots that did not go through proper procedures nor counted.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  292. It might be less astonishing if you had a more objective view.

    IOW, if I saw things the way you do? Are you certain of your own objectivity?
    I’ve been a longtime Republican, and I don’t see Donald Trump as the highest representative of my principles. I’m neither a knee-jerk partisan in this matter, nor one of the “elites” who sneer at “average Americans.” (Lots of average Americans voted for Biden.)

    you’re leaving out the massive campaign rallies for Trump

    No, I’m not leaving that out. Those big rallies show that a certain subset of the electorate want to be entertained — and many Trump fans emphasize what the see as his entertained value — while Biden voters were more likely to want a president who doesn’t feel the need to be always the center of attention and to be worshiped by crowds of people (while not much wanting to conserve with personally).

    The pre-election polling was very bad

    And therefore the true will of the people must be even further away from what the polls predicted? That really doesn’t make sense.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  293. They were wronger than they were in 2016 by and large.

    So: because the polls predicted a bigger Biden advantage than the actual voting result, as well as Dem gains in Congress, therefore the polls must have been even wronger than they actually turned out to be, and Trump must have been cheated out of a win!

    Sorry, I’m not buying that logic.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  294. IOW, if I saw things the way you do? Are you certain of your own objectivity?

    You’re wrong and unreasonable. Therefore the merits of your argument do not need to be discussed by your betters, who are objective and righteous like all fans of this miraculously perfect Dear Leader.

    Sadly, America was on the way here. And the people who cheered that the loudest will soon deny they ever liked Trump at all.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  295. And the people who cheered that the loudest will soon deny they ever liked Trump at all.

    Nothing I’ve seen in the last week encourages me to think that. Very much the opposite.

    In spite of the overwhelming evidence, 2/3’s of the GOP currently say they believe Trump’s lies about the election rather than the truth.

    They no longer use their minds, but have been conditioned to react like Pavlov’s dogs – salivating on demand whenever Trump rings the bell.

    Dave (1bb933)

  296. Because Biden sucks?

    You said it, not I.

    Plagiarism is among the most basic of character tells, Dustin.

    It’s thievery.

    If he’d lie about his credentials and swipe your work product– he’ll likely steal your wallet, given the chance. And you’ve given him one.

    You bought him; you own him.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  297. @300. Buchanan to Perot to Palin to Trump. Arf-Arf! Dogs bark; reality bites, Davey.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  298. Although only 18 percent of Republicans had said the results would be unreliable prior to Election Day, now 64 percent feel the same way following Biden’s victory.

    How is it that so many Americans refuse to see how incoherent and nuts this is: If Trump won the election, it would prove that the election was clean. But if he lost the election, it would prove that the election was rigged.

    This is right up there with the infamous “swimming test” for accused witches.

    Dana (6995e0)

  299. Radegunda (20775b) — 11/10/2020 @ 1:26 pm

    if I saw things the way you do? Are you certain of your own objectivity?

    I’m not convinced you know how I see things but I suspect you’re convinced you think you do. No, I’m not certain I’m objective. I assume I’m not and test my assumptions and conclusions as much as I can.

    Those big rallies show that a certain subset of the electorate want to be entertained

    If this is your takeaway then you’re proving my point. It’s reasonable to think that crowd size relates to enthusiam and votes. This Biden voter narrative you’ve given seems to be a new phenomenon in American politics.

    therefore the true will of the people must be even further away from what the polls predicted

    I good sign you’ve misunderstood a point is that you’ve got to make up a conclusion and assign it to someone. The polling was unreliable and of no use to support any conclusion. The polls certainly don’t support

    in the face of pre-election polls consistently showing a strong likelihood that Trump would lose

    i.e., that everyone should have expected this or that there’s no reason to suspect these vote totals.

    frosty (f27e97)

  300. I’m sure Trump had more votes than rally-goers. Like maybe even 70 million more.

    nk (1d9030)

  301. It’s reasonable to think that crowd size relates to enthusiam and votes.

    People didn’t stay away from Biden’s campaign events because they didn’t like him, or even because they weren’t enthusiastic. They stayed away because Biden’s events were invitation-only, designed to accommodate only a small number of attendees, and not publicized in advance at all.

    Dave (1bb933)

  302. Nothing I’ve seen in the last week encourages me to think that. Very much the opposite.

    True. They don’t think justice is possible. I’m an optimist though. Give it two years.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  303. The Lincoln Project will be going after the law firm Trump is trying to use to overturn the election, and their clients:

    President Trump is trying to steal the election, but he couldn’t get far if it weren’t for his enablers. There’s Attorney General William P. Barr, who has granted prosecutors approval to pursue fake voter fraud cases to make them appear real. There’s Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), who is lending validity to Trump’s big lie that the outcome remains unknown.

    And then there’s Jones Day, the big law firm that is representing Trump as his campaign prepares to unleash a legal war designed to overturn the election results. The firm’s role is drawing new scrutiny, and it’s making lawyers at the firm mighty uncomfortable.

    The Lincoln Project is set to launch a multiplatform campaign hammering Jones Day and other firms for their role in facilitating Trump’s efforts, I’m told. It includes TV and digital ads and social media highlighting the damage that enabling Trump threatens to our democracy and to the success of the presidential transition.

    Wilson said the campaign against Jones Day includes TV ads already in production, and will include a large social media push against the firm and its partners. He said the effort would also target some of Jones Day’s largest clients.

    “These people have now decided that attempting to undermine the outcome of a just and fair election is perfectly acceptable for their legal practices,” Rick Wilson, a GOP strategist and co-founder of the Lincoln Project, told me, in a reference to Jones Day and other firms representing Trump and the GOP.

    […]

    “I’d like to know how General Motors justifies working with a company that’s aggressively seeking to undermine the validity of a free and fair democratic election,” Wilson told me.

    Dave (1bb933)

  304. Dana (6995e0) — 11/10/2020 @ 2:21 pm

    How is it that so many Americans refuse to see how incoherent and nuts this is: If Trump won the election, it would prove that the election was clean. But if he lost the election, it would prove that the election was rigged.

    This is right up there with the infamous “swimming test” for accused witches.

    I don’t see “so many Americans” saying that Trump winning would prove it was clean but maybe. I generally suspect that every election is dirty to some degree because we don’t do consistent voter ID and aren’t even close to any sort of vote verification system. Do you have any examples of this?

    That aside, if you’re conclusion involves a large fraction of people being nuts it’s probably wrong. It’s possible for a lot of people to be wrong or to be mislead but that isn’t the same as being nuts. It’s also possible for propoganda to be effective and that’s closer to being nuts. But if your argument rests on “many Americans” who just happen to disagrees with you being nuts it’s on shaky ground.

    On the flip side, there are people claiming that Trump losing proves it’s clean. I’d say none of these people are credible and none of this tells you much about “many Americans”. I’d also say that cleanliness has nothing to do with who won. Do you disagree or have any thoughts on the nuttiness of people claiming it’s clean because he lost?

    frosty (f27e97)

  305. My copy/pasting swapped the order of two paragraphs; sorry.

    Dave (1bb933)

  306. You bought him; you own him.

    DCSCA

    So be it. I’ve already said as much. It’s the price we pay.

    But also, you intended to destroy the conservative movement with Trump. Felt these events and evil were glorious. Do you therefore own what that leaves behind? Obviously without Trump, no Biden.

    I know. You take no responsibility. That’s going around.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  307. Postal worker admits fabricating allegations of ballot tampering, officials say

    A Pennsylvania postal worker whose claims have been cited by top Republicans as potential evidence of widespread voting irregularities admitted to U.S. Postal Service investigators that he fabricated the allegations, according to three people briefed on the investigation and a statement from a House congressional committee.

    Richard Hopkins’ claim that a postmaster in Erie, Pa., instructed postal workers to backdate ballots mailed after Election Day was cited by Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) in a letter to the Department of Justice calling for a federal investigation. Attorney General William P. Barr subsequently authorized federal prosecutors to open probes into credible allegations of voting irregularities and fraud, a reversal of long-standing Justice Department policy.

    But on Sunday, Hopkins, 32, told investigators from the U.S. Postal Service’s Office of Inspector General that the allegations were not true, and he signed an affidavit recanting his claims, according to the sources who spoke on condition of anonymity to describe an ongoing investigation. Democrats on the House oversight committee tweeted late Tuesday that the “whistleblower completely RECANTED.”

    Hopkins’ allegations, without his name, were first aired last week by Project Veritas, an organization that uses deceptive tactics to expose what it says is bias and corruption in the mainstream media. Hopkins agreed to attach his name to the allegations late last week. He was instantly celebrated by Trump supporters.

    Project Veritas’ founder James O’Keefe on Saturday hailed Hopkins as “an American hero” on Twitter. A GoFundMe page created under Hopkins’ name had raised more than $129,000 by Tuesday morning, with donors praising him as a patriot and whistleblower.

    More excellent investigative reporting by James O’Keefe.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  308. I know I can’t be the only one who is alarmed by Trump’s replacing top officials in the Defense Department. Especially since he seems hell bent on denying the results of the election. I am starting to feel like we are on the precipice of something really, really frightful.

    noel (9fead1)

  309. Via Drudge… Welcome to 1980!

    Biden now up to 50.8% of popular vote, topping Reagan’s 50.7% in 1980…

    This is highest percentage for challenger since FDR in 1932…

    Dave (1bb933)

  310. Mr. Hopkins needs to spend some time behind bars.

    Dave (1bb933)

  311. Dave (1bb933) — 11/10/2020 @ 2:57 pm

    We are drifting away from the original point of @290 which was basically why are Trumpers surprised at where we are now because everything Radegunda cherry-picked points to a Biden win.

    People didn’t stay away from Biden’s campaign events because they didn’t like him, or even because they weren’t enthusiastic. They stayed away because Biden’s events were invitation-only, designed to accommodate only a small number of attendees, and not publicized in advance at all.

    This is still missing my point. Yes, we can have the covid discussion, etc. but you could not judge voter enthusiasm for Biden before the election with anything other than polling and fundraising. There was no clear objective basis before the election to say crowdsize was low “because they didn’t like him, or even because they weren’t enthusiastic”. My point was, and still is, that’s it natural to equate crowd size to votes. You can come up with all sorts of explainations that sound reasonable to anyone who really wants Biden and sound like excuses to anyone who wants Trump. Not being able to see this is why Radegunda thinks “it’s astonishing”.

    frosty (f27e97)

  312. Co-sign, on that Noel, especially with smug Pompeo’s boast from earlier today. At worst it is a coup and at best something akin to the Loyalist government in 1931 Spain and Popular Front victory in France in 1936.

    urbanleftbehind (7c5b5a)

  313. @319. Pompeo wants to keep stoking those voters to propel him to the KS senate seat– or be a base line for a POTUS run in 2024. My guess is Senate.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  314. If hes so big and bad, Orange County son Pompeo should try to pull off in 2022 what Big Dick failed to do in 1962.

    urbanleftbehind (7c5b5a)

  315. Trump admin’s continues to step on their own junk

    A team of international observers invited by the Trump administration has issued a preliminary report giving high marks to the conduct of last week’s elections–and it criticizes President Trump for making baseless allegations that the outcome resulted from systematic fraud.

    A 28-member delegation from the Organization of American States followed events in several locations across the U.S., including in the battleground states of Georgia and Michigan, both remotely and with observers at polling stations and counting centers.

    “While the OAS Mission has not directly observed any serious irregularities that call into question the results so far, it supports the right of all contesting parties in an election, to seek redress before the competent legal authorities when they believe they have been wronged,” the report said. “It is critical however, that candidates act responsibly by presenting and arguing legitimate claims before the courts, not unsubstantiated or harmful speculation in the public media.”

    The OAS assessment followed similar findings by an election observation team from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.

    “Baseless allegations of systematic deficiencies, notably by the incumbent president, including on election night, harm public trust in democratic institutions,” Michael Georg Link, leader of the short-term OSCE observer mission, said last week.

    The 20-OAS page report praised state and local officials for efforts to facilitate voting during the coronavirus pandemic and, while it had numerous recommendations for improving the elections system, found no evidence of the pervasive fraud that Mr. Trump, who has not conceded the presidential election, has insisted caused his loss to President-elect Joe Biden.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  316. I would say that James O’Keefe “lost it” a long time ago, if I hadn’t come to the conclusion that he never “had it” to lose in the first place.

    nk (1d9030)

  317. Postal worker admits fabricating allegations of ballot tampering, officials say
    ……
    Richard Hopkins’s claim that a postmaster in Erie, Pa., instructed postal workers to backdate ballots mailed after Election Day was cited by Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) in a letter to the Justice Department calling for a federal investigation. Attorney General William P. Barr subsequently authorized federal prosecutors to open probes into credible allegations of voting irregularities and fraud, a reversal of long-standing Justice Department policy.

    But on Monday, Hopkins, 32, told investigators from the U.S. Postal Service’s Office of Inspector General that the allegations were not true, and he signed an affidavit recanting his claims, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe an ongoing investigation. Democrats on the House Oversight Committee tweeted late Tuesday that the “whistleblower completely RECANTED.”
    …….
    The reversal comes as Trump has refused to concede to President-elect Joe Biden (D), citing unproven allegations about widespread voter fraud in an attempt to swing the results in his favor. Republicans held up Hopkins’s claims as among the most credible because he signed an affidavit swearing that he overheard a supervisor instructing colleagues to backdate ballots mailed after Nov. 3.

    The Trump campaign provided that affidavit to Graham, who in turn asked the Justice Department and FBI to launch an investigation.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  318. O’Keefe and Nate Silver share the same chronological career trajectory.

    urbanleftbehind (7c5b5a)

  319. Co-sign, on that Noel, especially with smug Pompeo’s boast from earlier today. At worst it is a coup and at best something akin to the Loyalist government in 1931 Spain and Popular Front victory in France in 1936.

    We might see him Mussolinied after all? Khadafyed even?

    nk (1d9030)

  320. My point was, and still is, that’s it natural to equate crowd size to votes.

    Natural to you, perhaps. If that hypothesis were true, Trump would’ve been running against Bernie, not Biden.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  321. 298. Radegunda (20775b) — 11/10/2020 @ 1:33 pm

    So: because the polls predicted a bigger Biden advantage than the actual voting result, as well as Dem gains in Congress, therefore the polls must have been even wronger than they actually turned out to be, and Trump must have been cheated out of a win!

    Sorry, I’m not buying that logic.

    There is no logic to that. But one could argue, that. once they were so wrong, they could have been even more wrong. The point is, citing polls becomes weak as an argument.

    It isn’t polls that is the basis of saying that Biden won. They would only have had to have been about 1 1/2% more wrong to have Trump squeak it out in the Electoral College. It is difficult to say that polls can get closer than the nearest 5%, or maybe even 10% if you’re not careful.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  322. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 11/10/2020 @ 4:35 pm

    Natural to you, perhaps. If that hypothesis were true, Trump would’ve been running against Bernie, not Biden.

    Isn’t this one of the complaints from Bernie bros? Aren’t they always complaining about something being stolen from Bernie? And it’s not like the D’s didn’t play that game with him in 16. So, sort of proves my point.

    Also, you’ve imagined a different hypothesis than the one I made. I’m guessing you didn’t follow the thread or wanted to have a different argument.

    frosty (f27e97)

  323. This is highest percentage for challenger since FDR in 1932…

    ‘This is a dark winter ahead.’
    ‘No miracle is coming.’

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW-0kbIcf1E

    Woohoo!!! “Happy Days Are Here Again!”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  324. 299.

    And the people who cheered that [that = what? SF]the loudest will soon deny they ever liked Trump at all.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 11/10/2020 @ 1:34 pm

    Only the politicians. Only the politicians. And they’d be telling the truth, also, in most cases.

    Now Chris Christie actually likes Donald Trump. But he says he ca;t follow him along blindly. Giuliani also knows and likes Trump – for years – but he seems to consider it his duty, as a friend and whatever, to try to find any points in Trump’s favor. And he also doesn’t know how to evaluate evidence, misreading every piece of evidence he gathers or that is given to him. In the real world, we’d know that there was a massive conspiracy, just like we knew there was a Mafia. There has to be some sign of it.

    Otherwise all he might show is that the door is open – maybe.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  325. 301. DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/10/2020 @ 2:16 pm

    If he’d lie about his credentials and swipe your work product– he’ll likely steal your wallet, given the chance.

    Now wait a second.

    If somebody takes your words, you still have it, just like if somebody takes your knowledge because you teach him.

    And banks will take your money, lend it out, and let it get spent, but let you have it too!

    The prosperity of the United States, since the 1720s, has been built on this. Three hundred years!

    Of course banks can go broke, but now small ad medium size bank deposits are federally guaranteed.

    And the money to do that, should all else fail, partially grows on trees. (It is partially made of linen, and flax somehow got classified as a tree 2,000 years ago because it grows to a height of 40–120 cm.)

    These days actually we dispense with the trees.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  326. Remember when…Exclusive: Republicans seeking to raise at least $60 million to fund Trump legal challenges…it was all male cow excrement

    In reality, there is no election defense fund; the donations are siphoned into a mix of various committees. Up until Tuesday, some of the money was being used to pay down the Trump campaign’s debt. As of Tuesday morning though, the formula was changed to funnel most of the money into Trump’s new leadership PAC called Save America.

    In the fine print of the fundraising blasts, it lays out that 60 percent of the contributions will first go to the new PAC, up to the maximum contribution of $5,000. The remaining 40 percent goes to the RNC up to the maximum $35,500. If that first 60 percent of the donation exceeds $5,000 the remnants go to the campaign’s “recount account”; if the 40 percent exceeds the $35,500 RNC maximum, only then does it go to the RNC’s legal defense fund.

    “Not a penny is dedicated to a legal expense account unless donors have maxed out their contributions to the first two committees, $5,000 to the leadership PAC and $35,500 to the RNC,” said Paul Ryan, vice president of policy and litigation at Common Cause.

    Far from arming Trump in his fight against the election results, in most cases, most of the money will end up in the new leadership PAC.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  327. But why would Trump be building a PAC? Ah, it’s not a traditional PAC it’s a Leadership PAC, a critically important difference.

    Calling leadership PACs “notorious” for being abused as slush funds, Ryan predicted that Trump will keep the coffers full by teasing a possible 2024 run, all the while finding ways to funnel money back to his businesses and family members.

    “This is a way that he can fleece his supporters to support his own lifestyle for the next few years regardless of whether he even runs in 2024,” Ryan said.

    Trump couldn’t legally use the leadership PAC for a federal campaign, though he could use it to travel and give to other campaigns, keeping himself politically relevant.

    Brett Kappell, a campaign finance expert at the Harmon Curran law firm, added that there is another benefit for Trump in the PAC.

    “The prohibition on the personal use of campaign funds also does not apply to leadership PACs — so leadership PAC funds could be used to pay the legal fees Trump will incur after he leaves office,” he told TPM.

    This willingness to bait and switch his own supporters, like the willingness to pretend that President-Elect Joe Biden did not win this election legally and decisively, is not the work of Trump alone. Establishment Republicans are propping him up.

    “The allocation formula is entirely by choice, and the Trump campaign and RNC decided on that allocation formula,” Fischer said. “There is nothing stopping them from saying that 60 percent of the donations go to the recount account, or that even 100 percent of every donation goes to the recount account until it’s maxed.”

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  328. 320.

    “Baseless allegations of systematic deficiencies, notably by the incumbent president, including on election night, harm public trust in democratic institutions,” Michael Georg Link, leader of the short-term OSCE observer mission, said last week.

    Only if he drops the allegations without explanation, or without someone ruling against them while giving their reasoning.

    Of course Trump or Giuliani isn’t making specific allegations for the most part but we need that to happen to specific false allegations, and we need true irregularities, which maybe didn;t affect the outcome, be acknowledged.

    Otherwise some people will then have heard somewhat detailed charges, without, if they are interested, having access to a solid rebuttal.

    Note – Facebook or Twitter or your local newspaper or a TV network simply proclaiming something false or baseless does not amount to a refutation and might only increase mistrust.

    Someone noting that the person in Erie, Pennsylvania retracted, pus the fact it was an isolated claim, plus the fact that by itself it didn’t amount to anything significant anyway fits the bill.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  329. CBS News reported that Trump hasn’t made any public appearances (aside I guess from going golfing in public) since Friday November 6, nor has he talked to any foreign leaders in 10 days)

    Foreign counrry reactions range from congratulations to Biden for being elected president (like Britain France Germany) to congratulations to Biden without saying what he is being congratulated for combined with separate praise elsewhere for Donald Trump (Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, who had expected Trump to win) to a watch and wait approach (Russia, China, Mexico)

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  330. Just for clarification, on what date in 2000 did the Clinton administration fund the transition team efforts for GW Bush?

    Or more leniently, was it before or after the SCOTUS decision on Florida?

    Or was Bill so generous that he authorized funds to BOTH teams?

    Pouncer (b0e023)

  331. because everything Radegunda cherry-picked points to a Biden win.

    I wasn’t cherry-picking points to argue that a Biden win was inevitable. I was pointing to facts that undercut the claims that Trump must have been cheated out of a win.

    “Look at his rallies! He must have been the real popular favorite!” is a cherry-picking argument.

    And pointing to the inaccuracies in the polling is hardly a persuasive way of arguing that the legitimate result would been even further from what the polls predicted.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  332. 315. Dave (1bb933) — 11/10/2020 @ 3:32 pm

    Mr. Hopkins needs to spend some time behind bars.

    If so, so does Julie Swetnick. More so, since her bogus claims related to Brett Kavanaugh lasted more days.

    But you want to allow people to feel free to back down when people start to examine them.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  333. I don’t think that rallies mean anything.

    It;s an excellent way for someone with a minority of the vote – even below 35% or even 25% in a district – to fool himself. An electorate can be divided into different categories. A god campaigner must know how to count.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  334. Sammy- recall how Trump managed through those ‘loser’ months when the Ivana divorce was front page ink, the AC casinos were going belly up, the NY real estate market was in collapse and the financiers were putting him on an allowance as the state-side banks stopped lending to him.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  335. Trump’s rallies mean less than anything. They were shows “with a cast of thousands” organized by Brad Parscale for Trump’s entertainment. The only things missing were the gladiators and the lions to throw to the starving Christians.

    nk (1d9030)

  336. @338 and @340; now we’ve taken the original comment, turned it inside out and upside down, and this has been turned into a completely different argument.

    frosty (f27e97)

  337. For example, you’re leaving out the massive campaign rallies for Trump as compared to no one showing up for Biden. Whether they were a good idea or not the visual imagery is inconsistent with the vote totals.

    ?

    nk (1d9030)

  338. 293. frosty (f27e97) — 11/10/2020 @ 1:06 pm

    It also looks like the black and hispanic vote shifted toward Trump to a degree that in any other election the R would have won.

    It did, especially Hispanic votes from non-Mexicans outside the Southwest,

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/us/politics/democrats-latino-voters.html

    But Trump lost other votes.

    In the suburbs and among older people. He maybe didn’t even lose many votes, but turnout increased.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/us/politics/biden-blue-states-red-states.html

    In the end, Mr. Trump held onto most of the counties he won in 2016 and boosted his vote total statewide by nearly 370,000, with gains in places like Macomb County, a bellwether that first appeared in the political spotlight in the 1980s, thanks to its high concentration of Reagan Democrats. But it was not enough. He grew his base, but often in smaller, rural counties where there weren’t a lot of votes to begin with. And even in places where he gained significantly, like Macomb, Mr. Biden’s gains were bigger when measured against Hillary Clinton’s totals in 2016.

    Mr. Biden surged ahead of Mrs. Clinton’s statewide, especially in suburban areas where Republicans were once dominant….

    …One place that was not especially helpful to the president-elect was the city of Detroit. A lack of enthusiasm there for Mrs. Clinton helped sink her chances of winning the state, but this year Democrats had high hopes that turnout in the predominantly African-American city would rebound. It did, but for Mr. Trump. Though Mr. Biden won Detroit with 94 percent of the vote, he received almost 1,000 fewer votes than Mrs. Clinton did in 2016. Mr. Trump increased his totals by nearly 5,000 votes, with strength concentrated in small pockets of the city like the west side, which has a large number of Latino voters….

    ….Though votes were still trickling in nearly a week after Election Day, Mr. Biden was behind where Mrs. Clinton finished in Philadelphia. And Mr. Trump saw an uptick in his numbers in white working-class neighborhoods in the city’s northeast, as well as in precincts with large Latino populations.

    Outside of Philadelphia, it was a different story. Mr. Biden’s voters showed up in overwhelming numbers in the suburbs and swing counties farther out, like Northampton in the Lehigh Valley and Erie in the northwest. These predominantly white counties voted twice for Mr. Obama, then went to Mr. Trump in 2016.

    Mr. Biden won them both, but narrowly — Erie County by one percentage point and Northampton County by less than a point. Northampton, with its mix of rural areas, old mining towns and small to medium-size cities like Bethlehem, behaved like other demographically similar areas where Mr. Trump’s leadership style drove voters away and energized the opposition against him..

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/08/us/politics/joe-biden-voters.html

    …College towns that turned out. Progressive enclaves that voted en masse. White suburban women who rejected Mr. Trump. White blue-collar workers who voted, even just ever so slightly, in greater numbers for Mr. Biden than they did for Hillary Clinton.

    In Pennsylvania, the four suburban counties that ring Philadelphia netted Mr. Biden about 94,000 more votes than Mr. Trump, compared with Mr. Trump’s numbers against Hillary Clinton four years ago — enough to offset Mr. Trump’s entire margin of victory in 2016 and to account for his full deficit when the race was called in 2020…

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  339. I know only one person who voted for Trump. Where did those other alleged 71,876,043 votes come from? Trump must have cheated.

    nk (1d9030)

  340. Sammy Finkelman (00fff5) — 11/10/2020 @ 6:34 pm

    But Trump lost other votes.

    I think the current data is that white men shifted from Trump to Biden. If Biden gets across the line the current thinking is that it will be white men who pulled him across while blacks and hispanics went the other way.

    frosty (f27e97)

  341. frosty (f27e97) — 11/10/2020 @ 4:56 pm

    I don’t know anyone who protested that Bernie’s bid for president was stolen, frosty, so I really don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  342. For anyone still checking the stats, Biden has a wider lead in Georgia (14k) than Arizona (13k), and his lead in PA is 48k, which would take a mind-boggling amount of fraud to affect that outcome.
    And while we’re on the subject of stats, today was terrible wrt CV19, with 135,574 new cases and 1,345 more dead Americans. Biden won, but this is still Trump’s watch.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  343. I know only one person who voted for Trump. Where did those other alleged 71,876,043 votes come from? Trump must have cheated.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/10/2020 @ 6:39 pm

    Those who were at Woodstock.

    norcal (a5428a)

  344. You know, norcal, some comrades in the media and the internets are clutching their pearls because before the election only 18% of Trump’s supporters thought the election was rigged but now 80% do. That does not make me no never mind at all. Trump is trying to turn Biden’s victory sour, but the way I see it it’s only making his loss more sour. Let him and his sadbois make themselves bitter and unhappy — it’s the mesquite sauce on the steak for me.

    nk (1d9030)

  345. There just might be a reason for that nk.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37243190

    Nah, not here of course.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  346. @349 I like what Dana said about the floating witch test. It’s spot-on.

    Call me an optimist, but I think over time more and more Americans will come to see Trump for the buffoon that he is, even some of his fans. Just today, I had a conversation with my mother where she admitted that maybe she was hoodwinked by Trump, and she has been a champion of conservative causes for a long time.

    norcal (a5428a)

  347. “That does not make me no never mind at all. Trump is trying to turn Biden’s victory sour, but the way I see it it’s only making his loss more sour. ”

    It’s a real lemon party.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  348. If Biden gets across the line the current thinking is that it will be white men who pulled him across while blacks and hispanics went the other way.

    If Biden gets across the line? Were you saying “if Trump gets across the line” at the same point in 2016, when Trump’s EC margin in states he was leading in was the same as Biden’s is now?

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  349. Just for clarification, on what date in 2000 did the Clinton administration fund the transition team efforts for GW Bush?

    Or more leniently, was it before or after the SCOTUS decision on Florida?

    In 2000, neither candidate received transition funds until after Bush v. Gore settled the result in FL.

    The 9/11 report noted that the delay created later problems in staffing national security positions. The current law, which allows the GSA to transfer funds to “the apparent winner” was crafted partially in response to the 2000 election.

    While I think Gore’s tactic of only requesting recounts in counties he won overwhelmingly was shamefully dishonest, I think there was a legitimate case that the winner was uncertain in 2000, given that the margin was only 500-odd votes.

    The situation this year is nothing like 2000.

    Dave (1bb933)

  350. Also, apart from one (or two? I don’t remember) premature calls that were quickly retracted, I don’t think any of the major networks called the 2000 race until the FL recounts were settled.

    Dave (1bb933)

  351. If so, so does Julie Swetnick.

    I agree. The Trump administration seems to have dropped the ball here, as in so many other cases.

    Dave (1bb933)

  352. lurker (d8c5bc) — 11/10/2020 @ 8:52 pm

    If Biden gets across the line? Were you saying “if Trump gets across the line” at the same point in 2016, when Trump’s EC margin in states he was leading in was the same as Biden’s is now?

    I didn’t expect Trump to win so I was probably saying that until everything was official. But what does it matter? Of the things in that comment “if” is the least meaningful and it has the benefit of being correct. Was it that triggering to hear someone not chanting the official party line?

    frosty (f27e97)

  353. Dave (1bb933) — 11/10/2020 @ 10:37 pm

    The situation this year is nothing like 2000.

    Yep. In 2000 news networks still cared about pretending to be objective.

    frosty (f27e97)

  354. Yep. In 2000 news networks still cared about pretending to be objective

    Yeah, that must be it.

    It couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that Trump needs to flip three states, including one where he’s trailing by a hundred times as many votes as Gore was in the single state *he* needed to flip, or the fact that Biden is winning the popular vote by ten times the margin Gore did.

    No, it can only be media bias.

    Dave (1bb933)

  355. Was it that triggering to hear someone not chanting the official party line?

    Yeah, I don’t make a move before I get my Stalinist talking points from the Fox News Decision Desk.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  356. They call it a comedy of errors. I call it a clown show.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/10/biden-calm-crashes-into-jittery-washington-435834

    The Republicans do not fear Trump. They fear losing his cult base. I mean, 71 million did vote for him.

    They need those voters to maintain control of the Senate. It’s all about the runoffs in Georgia now.

    The courts do not want to get involved in this flim flam. Trump’s lawsuits will be dismissed as baseless and without merit. Thus, all he can do is disrupt the transition and con his delusional supporters into donating to his faux leadership PAC.

    Trump will never concede. Nor will he ever relinquish his control of the party. The Republicans who think they can gain his cult in 2024 by supporting his temper tantrum now are befooling themselves. Trump is planning on running again or if not passing the baton to one of his children. Donald Jr. and his girlfriend are already seeking to take over the RNC. The GOP (Gratuitously Obsequious Party) is Trump’s party, and he will not hand over his rabid base to any other Republican.

    In 2016, Camille Paglia wrote that if Trump wins the nomination and the election, it would destroy the power structure of both the Republican and Democratic parties. She was prescient, and she was right.

    It will all be over at noon on Jan. 20, 2021, when Joe Biden is sworn in. That will happen, no matter what Trump’s protestations are. He’s playing to his cult base, as are other formerly respectable Republicans, but it will all be to no avail. At best, the Republicans will maintain a slim majority or a tie in the Senate; they did gain seats in the House; and they did keep several governorships and state legislatures, which are important for re-districting. But their tenure is on life support.

    Trump is an abject failure, and he’s taking the party down with him. It’s shameful, to be honest.

    I voted for Biden. First time in my life I ever voted for a Democrat. In another year, I would have voted Libertarian, for Jorgensen. But this was not any other year. In the end, I decided that voting Libertarian was a throw away vote; it was not a repudiation of Trump, and that was what mattered to me.

    And now I see why. Look at him, throwing a temper tantrum, claiming election fraud, making accusations of election theft (of which there is absolutely no evidence), filing lawsuits without merit, whining and crying like a spoiled little boy. It’s disgraceful that Republicans are supporting him in this insane endeavor.

    Reality will eventually set in on Jan. 20. But the fraud and the con will continue long after. Trump will never leave us, and ultimately that’s to our shame.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  357. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 11/11/2020 @ 2:12 am

    The Republicans do not fear Trump. They fear losing his cult base. I mean, 71 million did vote for him.

    They need those voters to maintain control of the Senate. It’s all about the runoffs in Georgia now.

    All they need to do is look like they’re not betraying them.

    It would be enough to say he shouldn’t be stampeded into conceding, while saying allegations should be looked into. And some have come close to that. Senator Roy Blunt )R-Missouri) has said his lawyers should lay out the facts (that is, not make any recommendations as to what he should do) and let the facts speak fr themselves.)

    And they could also say that there’s nothing there they see so far that amounts to anything.

    Donald Jr. and his girlfriend are already seeking to take over the RNC.

    They have denied that. calling it fake news. In the sense of a totally wrong story. Doald Trump Jr says e is not interested in the job.

    I think somewhere somebody was spreading that story, maybe to help himself. Maybe somebody who wanted it to happen.

    Trump is an abject failure, and he’s taking the party down with him. It’s shameful, to be honest.

    If he tries running again, he may, by preventing serious challenges for the nomination; if not someone else, with some Trump credentials, probably, will emerge.

    I voted for Biden….And now I see why. [he needed a repudation] Look at him, throwing a temper tantrum, claiming election fraud, making accusations of election theft (of which there is absolutely no evidence), filing lawsuits without merit, whining and crying like a spoiled little boy. It’s disgraceful that Republicans are supporting him in this insane endeavor.

    some are. More are just choosing their words or not saying anything. It’s still early.

    Reality will eventually set in on Jan. 20. But the fraud and the con will continue long after. Trump will never leave us, and ultimately that’s to our shame.

    I don’t think he wants to leave.

    He may fade away, but pursuing meritless claims against him will give him new life. Can this be avoided?

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  358. Bramhall cartoon showing Trump wearing his MRGA hat:

    (Make Reality Go Away)

    https://twitter.com/BillBramhall/status/1326185428181987333

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  359. In 1916, Charles Evans Hughes did not concede for two weeks, until a recount in California was over.

    This article says concessions have been routine since 1896, (which would be about the time big offices got telephones. But I think before long distance.)

    https://www.sentinel-standard.com/news/20201109/if-trump-still-wont-concede-to-biden-hell-break-more-than-century-of-tradition (also in the New York Daily News)

    That year, Woodrow Wilson went to sleep on Election Day thinking he had lost, and woke up the next morning to see he had won.

    Ww had same day results nationwide at least as far back as 1876. (communicated by telegraph)

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  360. FoxNews puts on a clinic in situational ethics (hat-tip #FAKENEWSBEZOSPOST):

    https://twitter.com/thefix/status/1326313051453353984

    Dave (1bb933)

  361. Self-Professed Trump Supporter Attacked Elderly Couple With Golf Club Over Joe Biden Sign

    A Twin Cities man who identified himself to authorities as a supporter of President Donald Trump is accused of attacking an elderly couple with a golf club over the weekend after he saw them standing at a street corner with a homemade Joe Biden sign.

    Fifty-year-old Mark Anthony Ulsaker, of Lino Lakes, is charged with second-degree assault with a dangerous weapon, threats of violence and assaulting a peace officer in connection to the Sunday incident, court documents filed in Ramsey County show. If convicted of all counts, he could face a maximum sentence of 15 years in prison.

    According to a criminal complaint, multiple witnesses called 911 around 3 p.m. after seeing a man, described as stocky and bald, attacking an elderly couple with a golf club in White Bear Lake, at the intersection of Highway 96 and Centerville Road. After the golf club broke during the attack, the man reportedly punched the elderly man in the head.

    […]

    Witnesses jotted down the man’s license plate number, and police found it was registered to Ulsaker. Officers went to his home, and tried to arrest him, but he initially resisted. He swung a punch at the arresting officer, who blocked the blow and pushed Ulsaker away, the complaint states. The officer then pulled out his Taser and eventually got Ulsaker to comply. Investigators noted that the officer suffered an injury to his right thumb.

    In an interview with police, Ulsaker described himself as a “Trump supporter.” He said he got upset when he saw the couple’s Joe Biden sign, the complaint states.

    During the interview, Ulsaker admitted to “flipping off” the couple, kicking over their sign, and swinging his golf club at them. The golf club broke when it hit the woman’s chair. Ulsaker said he then pushed the seated woman over, and that’s when the man came after him, so he punched him in the head. Ulsaker said that while he did drive his truck over the curb to scare the woman, he had no intention of running her over.

    As for assaulting the arresting officer, Ulsaker admitted to investigators that he “swung a little,” the complaint states.

    #MAGA

    Dave (1bb933)

  362. “Biden’s margin of victory in PA is now larger than Trump’s was in 2016”

    Biden is the most popular President ever to flip no seats, have no party coattails, not be matched by a majority of bellwether counties, have enormous and unprecedented midnight leads in urban areas in swing states only while his opponent somehow runs up the score in all other urban areas prior to those swing states counting, and have no stage or rally presence to speak of. Unlike Trump, who inspired only the bigoted living, Biden brought the dead, the undead, and the past maiden selves of married women out to vote for him, in an FIVE-D chess voter appeal strategy that the behind-the-times DRUMPHBABY could only dream of in his fumbly little hands.

    Truly this man has much to teach us all about voting patterns and persuasion and isn’t at all being pushed by insiders.

    Maiden Democrat (fdf07f)

  363. No, Maiden Democrat,

    Trump is just that amazingly unpopular and loathed that folks like me wanted him out, even though we are lifelong conservatives and aren’t as motivated to flip seats.

    Your argument actually does not help Trump at all.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  364. Do I care that the GOP keeps the Senate while Trump goes? Nope. I’m glad.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  365. Dustin (4237e0) — 11/11/2020 @ 9:18 am

    Your argument actually does not help Trump at all.

    That’s an interesting feature of political comments on internet blogs. The effect on “lifelong conservatives” like you are minimal at best.

    frosty (d41019)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.2871 secs.