Patterico's Pontifications

11/6/2020

Decision Desk Calls Pennsylvania, Presidency for Joe Biden

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 6:58 am



Donald Trump has lost.

Gee.

That’s too bad.

UPDATE: Perfect.

352 Responses to “Decision Desk Calls Pennsylvania, Presidency for Joe Biden”

  1. You hate to see it

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. Always wrong, never in doubt:

    80% of vote tallied in PA; Trump up 53.3 to 45.4.

    He’ll win Pennsylvania. All the energy producing stats have gone to Trump.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:39 am

    Pennsylvania will go to Trump. The numbers and percentages are showing it; it makes it difficult for Biden to pull that out; much of Western PA counties [aside from Allegheny County] are similar in demographics and economic make up to Eastern Ohio and West Virginia- both of which went for Trump. Philly will go t Bien,but his percentage so far is lower than what HRC got.

    And every energy producing state has gone for Trump.

    Try gaming it out w/PA in Trump’s column.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/4/2020 @ 12:11 pm

    The PA gap should close some w/the Philly numbers coming in- which is expected- but every energy producing state has gone to Trump; can’t see PA breaking that trend -especially w/t mail-in votes made after Biden’s fracking gaffes in the debate. It just doesn’t fit.

    OTOH, Arizonians may just be giving payback to The Donald for peeing in McCain’s coffee when alive then pissing on his grave. But glad Kelly won. The Senate needs an astronaut who has seen the world in the proper perspective.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/4/2020 @ 4:51 pm

    All the energy producing states have gone for Trump. Safe bet he’ll take Pennsylvania as well.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/3/2020 @ 10:53 pm

    No way Biden wins PA. Look at the numbers and percentages already counted. And all the energy producing states have gone to Trump. If you want to hold out hope for Joe, look to MI and WI., but the numbers aren’t in his favor there as of now either.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/3/2020 @ 11:50 pm

    @461. Biden has lost all the energy producing states to Trump. PA will go Trump.

    @462. PA says 1.4 million. Do the math and figure out how many of them- valid and not rejected- have to go to Biden too overcome a 15% lead of day-of-votes cast and still being tabulated. Just don’t see it happening. MI a& WI may be a different story.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/4/2020 @ 12:06 am

    Glorious.

    Dave (1bb933)

  3. #2

    To quote #1

    You hate to see it

    Appalled (1a17de)

  4. Veni, vidi, vidi.
    – Joe Biden

    Dave (1bb933)

  5. viva le resistance

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  6. The gangrenous limb needed to be amputated, the malignant cancer excised, the infection suppressed.

    nk (1d9030)

  7. Another Republican senator calls Trump’s BS:

    Republican Sen. Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania said President Trump’s speech Thursday night was “very hard to watch” and that his claims of voter fraud are “not substantiated.”

    “I saw the President’s speech last night. It was very hard to watch. The President’s allegations of large-scale fraud and theft of the election are just not substantiated. I’m not aware of any significant wrongdoing here,” Toomey said Friday on NBC’s “Today.”
    Toomey acknowledged there are “irregularities in every election,” but they “tend to typically be very small and involve just a handful of ballots.”

    “But is there any evidence that I’m aware of that there’s significant, large-scale fraud or malfeasance anywhere in Pennsylvania? Absolutely not,” he added.

    Dave (1bb933)

  8. Dude came around as time went by, Dave. My middle fingers are reserved for that sanctimonious Salena Zito broad.

    urbanleftbehind (ab2a96)

  9. Another Republican senator calls Trump’s BS:

    A bit less courageous now than it would have been earlier. Still: good.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  10. Lawfare hasn’t had its say yet.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  11. It would have killed them to wait a bit?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  12. America, and the world, is about to receive what they deserve. Good and hard.

    It would be one thing to say Joe won fair and square, but he didn’t. This election is an excellent reflection of this annus horribilis. We’ve actually made Kamala Harris the president of the U.S. Senate. Lord, have mercy.

    Trump is personally a “not good” person. But, his instincts on big questions were incredibly good. More than any president since Reagan, he had the right enemies. He took them on more strongly than Ronaldus Magnus, too.

    I am reminded of Howard Cosell’s inimitable voice and reaction to a celebrity’s death: “It was inevitable.” So too, is the fall of our Republic, and then the Western World. Just a matter of a short time, now.

    Ed from SFV (f64387)

  13. Biden lost a lot of non-legal (not illegal) votes in Pennsylvania cast by people who failed to enclose their ballot in a security or privacy envelope but instead sent in “naked ballots”

    They were disqualified and not counted.

    https://billypenn.com/2020/10/04/pennsylvania-naked-ballot-mail-voting-guide-secrecy-envelope-deadline-signature-philadelphia

    In the past, election boards in Pennsylvania didn’t necessarily toss ballots missing the inner envelope — but it also wasn’t a big issue, because not many people used them. Before this year, you needed a valid reason to vote “absentee,” like being out of town on Election Day, or in the military, or physically unable to make it to the polls.

    But this time they’ll toss every one them – President Trump will make sure.

    We can safely say that at least 10% of mail in ballots in Pennsylvania were disqualified. This has a greater impact than missing the Green Party and leaving the Libertarian Party on the ballot.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  14. Trump is personally a “not good” person. But, his instincts on big questions were incredibly good. More than any president since Reagan, he had the right enemies. He took them on more strongly than Ronaldus Magnus, too.

    Here, here.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  15. One small step for Republicans.

    One giant leap for socialism.

    Hope your hatred of Trump was worth electing Kamala Harris leader of the free world.

    Edoc118 (8e2016)

  16. FDT!

    nk (1d9030)

  17. But, his instincts on big questions were incredibly good.

    LOL!

    “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  18. Maybe Barr has an “insurance policy” ready to go.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  19. @2. The Empire Strikes Back.

    Biden victory is a Harris win/ideological conservatism loses. Poor Davey, you just don’t do realize this a win/win from my POV. But I’m pleased it’s so important to you. Pennsylvania is the only energy producing state to slide to Biden. Putting Pgh.,Phily,Harrisburg d State College aside-

    Why? So take this in:

    It’s this early voting crap. What’s the point of lengthy, expensive campaigns, void of intense media scrutiny, discussion and debate over issues culminating on an ‘election day’- especially if a candidate running reveals an intent in direct opposition to your self-interests a week before election day after you’ve already voted a month out?

    I’ve already decided I’m voting for Nikki Haley for POTUS in 2024.

    I’d like to mail my vote in tomorrow– why wait.

    So if Haley comes out in support of televised gay sex from all public water fountains in America and bans fracking, hot fudge sundaes as well as pepperoni pizzas and cold beer a week before election day in 2024– oops, any early, ‘banked’ vote can’t be changed.

    That’s not ‘democracy’ at work; That’s chicanery at play.

    In just 14 days, Joe Biden turns 68 years old. …and Harris smiled.

    While Putin is laughing his azz off.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  20. Be careful what you wish for.

    J. W. Morris (6546db)

  21. As I mentioned in other thread.

    Congrats to those who wanted Trump out. I mean that sincerely.

    Now, the expectation going forward you scrutinize the Biden administration, even based on their personality faults, as you did under the Trump administration.

    Now the world watches the most expense US Senate race in history for control of that chamber. Georgia.

    whembly (a3f260)

  22. @18: Oh Dave, check the news. Covid doesn’t matter anymore. The election’s over.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  23. ^78 years old.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  24. @23.Impeachment didn’t matter either. Amazing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  25. As long as Republicans hold the Senate, Joe should not be a problem.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  26. I’m looking forward to a Harris presidency. Chiefly because it will irritate Hillary Rodham Clinton– and Davey.

    ‘A stitch in time makes you healthy, wealthy and wise.’ – Joe Biden

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  27. @18: Oh Dave, check the news. Covid doesn’t matter anymore. The election’s over.
    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/6/2020 @ 7:29 am

    The media will soon begin slow walking their COVID coverage. They know there is not much a president can do and are fine with hanging the deaths of even the NY nursing home patients on Trump. But that can’t be done to a Democrat, so watch as the slow walking begins.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  28. I get to now refer to Trump as a one-term loser.
    I was serious about that over/under as to when Trump will concede. Knowing his mentality, I doubt he ever will.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  29. NeverTrump is the dog that finally caught up to the car.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  30. Now, the expectation going forward you scrutinize the Biden administration, even based on their personality faults, as you did under the Trump administration.

    I intend to. I haven’t supported a presidential administration since early 2006. Why change now.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  31. This actually hurts the blue state govs more than helps. It probably crossed the mind of they and their mayors to have ballots held back if Uncle Orange overrode Mitch and paid through the nose for term 2.

    urbanleftbehind (ab2a96)

  32. @36. Joe’s irrelevant. He ain’t no ‘Dirty Grandpa’.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  33. He will never concede.

    Patterico (63b565)

  34. Ruby Red Georgia goes blue.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  35. But, his instincts on big questions were incredibly good. More than any president since Reagan, he had the right enemies. He took them on more strongly than Ronaldus Magnus, too.

    His strategic instincts may have been good, but his tactical instincts were utterly no-good, horrible and terrible. Everything he chose to personally guide turned into a chaotic miasma of wasted motion and impotence.

    He was singularly ineffective. That he had the right enemies does one no good if you keep losing to them. He may have taken them on strongly, but in the wrong places, at the wrong times, with the wrong weapons, and with the wrong results.

    And every cause he championed personally became toxic. Not sad to see him gone.

    My best and heartfelt advice to those who believed in the causes Trump “fought” for, whether or not you supported the man himself: Find someone who is capable of making them happen. Someone who has a successful track record in government; who knows the levers to pull, the palms to grease and the arguments to make. Stop with the loyalty tests and personalities, focus on your causes and the principles, not on the flawed messenger.

    The election of 2024 will be the most important one yet.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  36. Here’s where things stand for PA

    Biden Total 3,295,052
    Trump Total 3,289,540

    Biden Lead 5,512

    Uncounted Ballots (Mail and Absentee) 163,501

    Mail-in & Absentee Ballots Total 2,629,342
    Mail-in & Absentee Ballots for Biden 1,702,207
    Mail-in & Absentee Ballots for Trump 624,732

    Mail-in & Absentee Ballots for Biden 65%
    Mail-in & Absentee Ballots for Trump 24%

    Likely add to Biden 105,849
    Likely add to Trump 38,848

    Likely final total Biden 3,400,901
    Likely final total Trump 3,328,388

    Likely Biden Lead 72,513

    # Trump needs of uncounted votes to win 84,508
    % of uncounted (mail and absentee) Trump needs to win 53%

    http://www.votespa.com

    I don’t think Trump is going to get 53+% of the remaining votes. I think he’s lost, it’s all over except for the excuses and unsupported conspiracy theories of fraud.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  37. it’s all over except for the excuses and unsupported conspiracy theories of fraud.

    I dunno. Four years of mileage on “Trump Russia Collusion” is a high bar, but maybe we can beat that.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  38. Just look at that DCSCA man flip! Gone is his obsequious abasement before the Trump God. Now, he’s, well, something, I’m sure. But it’s entirely different and equally strange. Slouching towards Cloud Cuckooland to be born.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  39. @34. I agree w/Patterico. Trump won’t concede.

    Unlike Joe, he’s not a quitter. Congressional leaders are going to have to pull a Nixon on him, as in August, ;74, and tell him has to leave.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  40. whembly (a3f260) — 11/6/2020 @ 7:28 am

    Now, the expectation going forward you scrutinize the Biden administration, even based on their personality faults, as you did under the Trump administration.

    Do you really expect that? I don’t. We’ve seen this movie before. We’re did the anti-war crowd go when BO was elected?

    There are a lot of people who voted for Biden because Trump lies who also think Biden is lying. Either that or they’re “conservatives” who have no issues with Biden’s platform. People in the first group are going to have issues even acknowledging the lie and people in the second are already flapping in the breeze.

    frosty (f27e97)

  41. I do have to agree that people who’ve spent four years insisting that Trump was a paid Putin lackey, without a shred of evidence (and plenty to the contrary) ought to recognize the irony of asserting that this election (in THIS year) has been perfectly and completely above-board and that no undue influence on our electoral system has been delivered by any extralegal action.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  42. Maybe Barr has an “insurance policy” ready to go.

    I will answer that seriously. What was done to Clinesmith, McCabe, and Strzok, plus the Durham whatever, is going to give big pause to any potential Trump “Werewolves”.

    nk (1d9030)

  43. We haven’t seen normalcy and decency win since Obama won in 2008, saving our great country from the depredations of George W. Bush, aka BushHitlerMcChimpyHalliburton. Obama healed the nation by ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, not destroying Libya, and overseeing the greatest and fastest economic rebound from a recession in history. On top of that, his mere election lowered ocean levels.

    Can’t wait to see how Biden restores this great country to normalcy and decency. And lower ocean levels.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  44. #39

    Full fathom five our DCSCA lies;
    Of his bones are coral made;
    Those are pearls that were his eyes;
    Nothing of him that doth fade,
    But doth suffer a sea-change
    Into something rich and strange.
    Pat’s-comments hourly ring his knell:
    Ding-dong.
    Hark! now I see them — Vlad grins well.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  45. @39. You haven’t been paying attention, Kevin. The objective has always been to neuter the modern ideological conservative movement. That has been accomplished.

    It was a win/win w/either guy. But Trump is certainly more entertaining than Plagiarist JoeyBee- unless you enjoy endless gaffes.

    But ‘The Joe Show’ will be short lived; expect a cancelltion in 24 months or less. It’s ‘The Kamala Konspiracy’ that will be the new West Wing drama.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  46. I do have to agree that people who’ve spent four years insisting that Trump was a paid Putin lackey, without a shred of evidence (and plenty to the contrary) ought to recognize the irony of asserting that this election (in THIS year) has been perfectly and completely above-board and that no undue influence on our electoral system has been delivered by any extralegal action.
    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/6/2020 @ 7:47 am

    Not only that, there has been no electoral violence (outside the Anitfa/BLM crowd, of course) as the media and Democrat ninnies predicted. No Proud Boys prowling voting sites. No armed Trump supporters suppressing the vote.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  47. I agree w/Patterico. Trump won’t concede.

    He may, however, quit. The one thing that would amaze me would be him showing up at Biden’s inauguration, in acceptance.

    Assuming that there are no shoes to drop, and no credible evidence of fraud emerges (video cameras being ubiquitous), I would expect Pence and Congress to handle the EC process much as Gore and Congress did in 2000. Sure, some members of the Black Freedom Caucus may try to challenge the results, but the GOP Senate should shut that down PDQ. One would hope.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  48. “Donald Trump has lost”

    I test positive for schadenfreude !

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  49. What was done to Clinesmith, McCabe, and Strzok, plus the Durham whatever, is going to give big pause to any potential Trump “Werewolves”.

    You mean book deals and CNN gigs?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  50. @45. LOLOLOL Yes, I’m weeping over ideological conservatism becoming irrelevant.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  51. My mistake.

    nk (1d9030)

  52. He may, however, quit. The one thing that would amaze me would be him showing up at Biden’s inauguration, in acceptance

    He won’t quit unless his Senate allies do a Nixon on him. You don’t know Trump. He’d show up at a door opening I New York– as long as there’s a crowd—- and cameras.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  53. It’s hard to credit the proposition that Trump was “good” on the big issues when he was a complete disaster on the basic fundamentals of our government. He treated the office as existing solely to advance the interests of his family…probably more apt to say the Trump brand. His unhinged rant against the democratic process and counting votes is just yet another in a long line of examples. Trump wants to be king, not president. He’s a menace and I can’t wait for him to be gone.

    A video was circulating last night comparing Bush I’s concession speech and wishing Clinton well, expressing faith in the democratic process, with the crowd cheering. It might as well have been from a thousand years ago.

    johnnyagreeable (a9ba4b)

  54. https://www.electionreturns.pa.gov/

    BIDEN, JOSEPH ROBINETTE JR (DEM)
    49.48% Votes: 3,297,339
    Election Day : 1,399,802
    Mail : 1,897,463
    Provisional : 74

    TRUMP, DONALD J. (REP)
    49.38% Votes: 3,290,597
    Election Day : 2,725,585
    Mail : 564,693
    Provisional : 319

    JORGENSEN, JO (LIB)
    1.15% Votes: 76,340
    Election Day : 53,170
    Mail : 23,162
    Provisional : 8

    Note the difference in day-of and mail-in. Trump attacking the mail-in votes probably cost him the election.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  55. You mean book deals and CNN gigs?
    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/6/2020 @ 7:56 am

    That is the least the media could do to help these patriots. Sure, they lied and broke rules, but they were doing so for a good cause.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  56. @16. Bingo.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  57. A video was circulating last night comparing Bush I’s concession speech and wishing Clinton well, expressing faith in the democratic process, with the crowd cheering. It might as well have been from a thousand years ago.
    johnnyagreeable (a9ba4b) — 11/6/2020 @ 8:01 am

    Compare that to how the Clintons left the White House for Bush’s son.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  58. Although 7,000 votes is insufficient to avoid a recount, and if the recount includes signature comparisons and other absentee ballot qualifications it will be a three-edged sword.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  59. 54. Yes!

    nk (1d9030)

  60. #51 —

    I will admit the results are the best news for your project. Trump and Trumpism lost (good for country) but was not really repudiated (bad for Reaganism).

    Appalled (1a17de)

  61. If you were Vlad or Xi, what would you do to expedite a Harris Presidency?

    Put ol’Joe under a lot of stress PDQ– and send him to Stroke City.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. #62 =

    Why would you want younger and vigorous when you can have old and feeble?

    Appalled (1a17de)

  63. @61. 70 million people voted for Trump– he actually expanded his popular vote base. They’re not going to just evaporate or embrace Cruz or Marco… or Romney, etc.

    Haley will pick up the banner.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  64. A video was circulating last night comparing Bush I’s concession speech and wishing Clinton well, expressing faith in the democratic process, with the crowd cheering.

    That’s fitting when you win 37% of the vote.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  65. @58, I’m not sure to what you’re referring as I honestly don’t recall. I vaguely recall stuff like missing W keys from keyboards, but my sense was that was more the staff and not Clinton himself. Is there something more that I don’t recall offhand?

    In any event, pointing to bad behavior by others is no excuse for bad behavior (especially where Trump’s behavior is magnitudes worse than anything from the past IMO). Moreover, one of the reasons I used to consider myself aligned with the R party was precisely BECAUSE they separated themselves from Ds in terms of expecting more from our President as a matter of character. This, when you abandon that by saying “yeah the other side does it too!” it is completely hollow because that was supposed to be a separator.

    johnnyagreeable (a9ba4b)

  66. @63. She’s Dan Quayle in a pants suit; wholly unprepared.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  67. Lest we forget: Trump was not the problem. Trump was a symptom of the problem. The problem was that our two parties had lost the plot and governed us into the weeds. Trump did nothing to correct that, despite his “fighting” and rhetoric.

    And I really doubt Biden will either.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  68. @65, what’s the relevance? Whether you lost by ten thousand votes or ten million, you lost. Do you really think Trump would be any more gracious if he were blown out of the water?

    Also, 37 percent is misleading insofar as it suggests Clinton got something close to 63. Perot got a huge number of votes.

    johnnyagreeable (a9ba4b)

  69. I do have to agree that people who’ve spent four years insisting that Trump was a paid Putin lackey, without a shred of evidence (and plenty to the contrary) ought to recognize the irony of asserting that this election (in THIS year) has been perfectly and completely above-board and that no undue influence on our electoral system has been delivered by any extralegal action.

    Hunter Biden’s laptop was unavailable for comment…

    Dave (1bb933)

  70. It’s the end of the world as we know it
    It’s the end of the world as we know it
    It’s the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine

    nk (1d9030)

  71. @67 Sarah Palin was the one who was totally unprepared. And she didn’t make any moves to improve after the loss.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  72. Just keep in mind that every time Joe Biden shouts, ‘This is the United States of America’ over the next two years, it’s only because he has to remind himself where he is. And where he’ll be buried.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  73. Haley will pick up the banner.

    She may. Cruz will try. So will Tom Cotton. Mike Lee might try. Rubio cannot.

    And of course there are those who would try to bring the party back to the status quo ante, but I think the best they can do is to influence things a bit. The nationalist tendency has a ways to run.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  74. @68. True.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  75. That’s fitting when you win 37% of the vote.

    The guy who beat him had 43%.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  76. Also, in a confidential briefing with network anchors before the election, the military brass indicated that Russia and other foreign actors were actively engaged in election interference, but that they were not in a position to directly alter any votes.

    Dave (1bb933)

  77. “The World Turned Rightside Up!”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  78. Who said schadenfreude? From Patterico’s link, scroll down a little:

    Anderson Cooper: “That is the president of the United States. That is the most powerful person in the world. We see him like an obese turtle on his back flailing in the hot sun, realizing his time is over.”

    nk (1d9030)

  79. Cruz will try. So will Tom Cotton. Mike Lee might try.

    Not a chance. The first two are wholly polarizing and unlikable. The third is a cultist.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  80. Thank you, Kevin #68.

    Simon Jester (9d409e)

  81. Hunter Biden’s laptop was unavailable for comment…

    I was thinking more of a virus that was allowed to spread outside China, whether by idiocy or design.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  82. Perot was actually more damaging to the Rs in 96 than in 92. Perot had more of a 50 Dem-50 R split in 1992, but probably a 90/10 R split in 1996. Clinton’s 50+.00001 wins only came out to about 240 or so EVs in 1996.

    urbanleftbehind (ab2a96)

  83. Best wishes to President-Elect Biden. I hope and pray you do what’s right for the country.

    Congrats to all the ‘Conservatives’ who helped put Biden/Harris in charge of the Executive. You got what you wanted and you own it.

    Congrats to the Democrats who have found how to make the EC irrelevant in close-call states, just keep voting and counting in Dem districts till you get the number you need.

    If you think 2020 was off the hook, just wait.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  84. See #20.

    I’d vote for Haley for POTUS tomorrow. Why wait? Who needs campaigns?

    Early voting is now as American as baseball, hot dogs apple pie and Chevrolet– and the thievery of plagiarism.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  85. Latest AZ ballot update shows Trump gaining, but probably not enough to catch up:

    That latest Maricopa drop consisted of 61,789 ballots: 31,768 for Trump and 28,285 for Biden. That’s a 51-46 Trump ratio; as Nate said, Trump needed to win these ballots by a lot more to be on pace to overtake Biden’s lead statewide. Now, Trump needs to win at least 60 percent of the outstanding votes to pull ahead.

    Dave (1bb933)

  86. ^for 74.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  87. “What America needs are leaders to match the greatness of her people.” – DCSCA

    Plagiarism is ‘in.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  88. UPDATE: Perfect.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  89. The dictionary breaks up how to pronounce hatred as Hat red How appropriate !

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  90. Problem is: I still don’t think the cancer has been removed from the party.

    It’s remission at best.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  91. Congrats to all the ‘Conservatives’ who helped put Biden/Harris in charge of the Executive. You got what you wanted and you own it.

    Did you vote for Trump this time, harkin?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  92. Congrats to all the ‘Conservatives’ who helped put Biden/Harris in charge of the Executive. You got what you wanted and you own it.

    Nah. I’m going to play by the Trump voters’ rules.

    Anything good that happens, I demand you thank me.

    The rest is not my fault.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  93. Just remember, 7 days ago, 78 year old, now likely presidient elect Joe Biden stood before a crowd in Philadelphia and told them he was wearing his green Eagles football jacket when he was wearing a blue Delaware Blue Hens basketball jacket with their logo six inches below his eyes.

    Just remember… because he doesn’t.

    God help us.

    “And so it was planned he command… F-Troop!’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  94. Reading the comments from Trump’s supporters, I get a vision of Nathan Bedford Forrest* talking to recently freed slaves. “What will you do? Where will you go? What will become of you? You didn’t think of that, did you?”

    *Confederate general who founded the Ku Klux Klan for the comrades from Pinsk.

    nk (1d9030)

  95. I was assured right-leaning Trump critics were powerless.

    But when you need a scapegoat for your Dolchstosslegende, we’ll do, huh?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  96. Goodbye frying pan, hello fire.

    Andrew (02984e)

  97. Schroedinger’s NeverTrump – utterly irrelevant while simultaneously the most devious and powerful foe.

    (Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a)

  98. Schroedinger’s NeverTrump – utterly irrelevant while simultaneously the most devious and powerful foe.

    LOL. That’s a keeper.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  99. Anderson Cooper: “That is the president of the United States. That is the most powerful person in the world. We see him like an obese turtle on his back flailing in the hot sun, realizing his time is over.”

    He’s gay. =mike-drop=

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  100. Perot was actually more damaging to the Rs in 96 than in 92

    Dole was the real problem in 96.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  101. Congrats to all the ‘Conservatives’ who helped put Biden/Harris in charge of the Executive. You got what you wanted and you own it.

    Just so long as those who broke the GOP with Trump own that.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  102. @95. Comparing Trump supporters to freed black slaves is a bit of a stretch given the persona named.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  103. 70 million people voted for Trump– he actually expanded his popular vote base. They’re not going to just evaporate or embrace Cruz or Marco… or Romney, etc.

    Even after Cruz and Rubio have become full-throated Trump defenders?

    Also, what happened to the “binary choice” argument? A lot of those people were surely holding their noses to vote against VP Harris.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  104. Now, Trump needs to win at least 60 percent of the outstanding votes to pull ahead

    He had been doing better than that, but with day-of and dropoff votes, not with early mail-ins. It’s kind of confused about what they are counting there now, and whether votes are still coming from the hinterland.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  105. Kevin, 1996 was Pete Wilson’s time, but for orthodoxy on pro-life within the party.

    urbanleftbehind (ab2a96)

  106. Just so long as those who broke the GOP with Trump own that.

    Like Lindsey and Tedtoo?! They’d have to be surgically removed from you-know-who’s rectum at Walter Reed first before standing trial, hugged and forgiven at any fundraiser they can muster.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  107. “Oh thank GOD.”

    At least she didn’t say “FINALLY!”, which would be more appropriate here. I hope its a good call; I would have waited.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  108. “Did you vote for Trump this time, harkin?”
    __ _

    Not in 2016, not this time. Despite a certain poster in here who for some reason continues to lie about it, I have never once voted for a candidate I deem unfit for office.

    I certainly think Biden/Harris will be a nightmare, so I did not vote for them either.

    Just as I did four years ago, I only voted state (CA) and local and let the American people pick their presidential poison.
    __

    “Nah. I’m going to play by the Trump voters rules.”

    Of course you will, I trust the irony there will sink in one day.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  109. Trump led by the “FOUR HORSEMEN of CALUMNY” Fear, Ignorance Bigotry, and Smearing to provide his support. (with apologies to Margaret Chase Smith “Declaration of Conscience)

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  110. Dole was the real problem in 96.

    Dole fell off a stage; Plagiarist Joe just doesn’t remember what he’s wearing, where he is and what he says– whih is why e has to steal words from others.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  111. @31

    Now, the expectation going forward you scrutinize the Biden administration, even based on their personality faults, as you did under the Trump administration.

    I intend to. I haven’t supported a presidential administration since early 2006. Why change now.

    Paul Montagu (77c694) — 11/6/2020 @ 7:38 am

    So, you’ll be discussing the possibility that Biden may be influenced by the Chinese government?

    It may be nothing, but it *is* worth investigating…no?

    whembly (ef8c84)

  112. He had been doing better than that, but with day-of and dropoff votes, not with early mail-ins

    You mean people voting on ELECION DAY????

    What. A. Surprise.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  113. Congrats to all the ‘Conservatives’ who helped put Biden/Harris in charge of the Executive. You got what you wanted and you own it.

    Just so long as those who broke the GOP with Trump own that.

    What I was saying at the beginning: Make Trump the face of your brand and the true champion of your values, and it will raise up a more determined opposition to your side.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  114. 70 million people voted for Trump– he actually expanded his popular vote base.

    If you mail everyone a ballot, give them 30 days to fill it out and a stamp to mail it back (and send someone to collect it if they dawdle), you will get a better turnout than if you do none of these things.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  115. whih is why e has to steal words from others.“
    _

    Joe was plagiarizing when he still had plenty of marbles rolling around. Now he’s just Joe von Hindenberg.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  116. 113, on that note, Joe would have been blown out had 2020’s election day been November 8. And Hillary might have won had 2016’s election day been November 3.

    urbanleftbehind (ab2a96)

  117. While I’m at it, I think I’ll vote early for Nikki Haley for POTUS in 2030, too.

    I’ll use a Forever Stamp on my mail-in ballot tomorrow.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  118. @41

    whembly (a3f260) — 11/6/2020 @ 7:28 am

    Now, the expectation going forward you scrutinize the Biden administration, even based on their personality faults, as you did under the Trump administration.

    Do you really expect that? I don’t. We’ve seen this movie before. We’re did the anti-war crowd go when BO was elected?

    There are a lot of people who voted for Biden because Trump lies who also think Biden is lying. Either that or they’re “conservatives” who have no issues with Biden’s platform. People in the first group are going to have issues even acknowledging the lie and people in the second are already flapping in the breeze.

    frosty (f27e97) — 11/6/2020 @ 7:45 am

    I don’t expect it from the left and the media (BIRM).

    However, from the Trump/GOP critics of the right, yes that is my expectation. You’ll know you’re on target if they respond by disingenuously saying you’re engaging whattaboutery.

    whembly (ef8c84)

  119. I’ll never forget the response when I called my grandmother — herself a 1947(!) law school graduate — to tell her that I had passed the bar exam.

    81 years old, with a cigarette-scarred voice, she replied:

    Did Steve Vladeck’s grandmother graduate from law school at the age of 7 or 8?

    I think maybe you need to check to see if that tweet has been corrected.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a) — 11/6/2020 @ 7:35 am

    They know there is not much a president can do

    Actually he can do plenty, but politicians like to blame or take credit without going into details.

    Trump did do a lot. In fact he crushed the virus. We just don’t know it yet, because the therapeutics and the vaccines are still in bureaucratic limbo. But they’ll probably be approved, particularly for emergency use, by January 20.

    That it’s taking so long is his fault – for not interfering enough.

    China started giving people vaccinations (semi-secretly, and only important people or their military) already because they feared Trump would beat them to it.

    and are fine with hanging the deaths of even the NY nursing home patients on Trump.

    New York might not have the worst record on nursing homes, relatively speaking, even if you were able to correct the way Cuomo was managing the statistics and not releasing the total number of nursing home residents who did not die on the premises.

    This was going on all over:

    (as of August 20)

    https://lancasteronline.com/news/local/68-of-pennsylvania-coronavirus-deaths-are-from-nursing-and-personal-care-homes/article_22baa7c2-e181-11ea-88ce-5f7bae6c70c2.html

    68% of Pennsylvania coronavirus deaths are from nursing and personal care homes

    The original sin: Not letting families and friends visit.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  120. Just as I did four years ago, I only voted state (CA) and local and let the American people pick their presidential poison.

    But the problem with that approach is that someone ultimately has to pick. It’s fine if you want to abstain, but at the end of the day staying on the sidelines doesn’t really represent the “better” course in light of reality. Saying either is unfit doesn’t help when there’s only two real options.

    Wasn’t there a terrace in purgatory in Dante’s Inferno for those who refused to pick a side? Obviously I’m not invoking that to say you’re doing something morally wrong, but rather as an example of the inherent problem with trying to have it both ways.

    johnnyagreeable (a9ba4b)

  121. We can play all kinds of games with the vote totals, if we want.

    “Joe Biden got fewer votes on election day than any president-elect* since Hoover!”

    ———
    * too soon?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  122. 2028, as well. What the hell, forever. What the hell, give her an extra half term. By then it’ll be legal along with plagiarism, counterfeiting and electric carjacking.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  123. As a guy who loves to feed peoples words back to them I was wondering about Biden being on tape saying his campaign “has built the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.” He said it. He didn’t clarify. It is hard to interpret those words any differently. But maybe now it’ll be safe to say: “Hey Joe has diminished faculties… and a stutter since childhood”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRnhBmHYN0

    (I think he misspoke but my guess is that will be the gaffe that keeps giving for a week or two.)

    If Trump had said that he’d been accused of sending out clear direction his henchmen and probably impeached by the House again for it. The press would have found a sketchy Republican character by morning. Can you imagine how guilty the GOP would be made to look if in a red zone they’d covered windows, and made poll watchers use binoculars… according to nevertrumpers that would be evidence of guilty behavior, nevermind if the paper was put on the windows to block the sun shining in their eyes or if the poll watcher had breath like a dragon belching out a green cloud of gum disease

    If the shoe was on the other foot the nevertrumpers would go crazy and lawyers would be stacking up at the door ready to go to war for Biden. Which I’d hate, but would understand. It was a tight hotly contested race using a new system and has become a tradition since 2000 and the hanging of Chads. (The name Chad sounds to me like a eunuch Sorority mascot)

    Given the millions of people involved in counting the votes, it is a statistical certainty that there is crookedness out there.
    Trumps lawyers have to hope they’ll find that crookedness, and find it in Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, Arizona, North Carolina, and they only need to turn a few thousand votes. Technology shows past results down to the precinct level so the lawyers know where to look.

    For all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over Barrett and the SC getting involved, my guess is they only rule if there are clear and egregious violations of the law and the rights of the people…. in other words, you take it to the SC, this better deliver.

    Merry Christmas to the lawyers on both sides. They can afford that second yacht and a faster girlfriend with sleek lines.

    One thing that has been discussed in the news is that state legislatures could decide the vote was compromised in their state and overturn the election. I hope to God no one does that without nuclear blast level evidence.

    steveg (43b7a5)

  124. How many people will die from COVID while Biden dances at his inauguration? We all know Trump didn’t care about COVID but Biden said that he cared. He should be listening to scientists instead of dancing with Jill and maybe rubbing some young intern’s shoulders.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  125. “Wasn’t there a terrace in purgatory in Dante’s Inferno for those who refused to pick a side? Obviously I’m not invoking that to say you’re doing something morally wrong, but rather as an example of the inherent problem with trying to have it both ways.”
    _

    If refusing to vote for either Sh*t Sandwich or Douchebag puts me in a bad light in God’s eye, I still feel confident this non-attorney can make a compelling case to avoid a fine.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  126. Moscow and Beijing are planning to place more stress on Joe PDQ than the San Andreas fault.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  127. 115. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/6/2020 @ 8:51 am

    a stamp to mail it back

    STAMPS?

    Pennsylvania used Business Reply Mail.

    New York printed on the envelope:

    Place Stamp Here.

    (I didn’t even notice this till now)

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  128. Well if you’re looking for crookedness and political parties encouraging voter fraud, there’s always the Wisconsin Republicans who are encouraging Republicans in Pennsylvania to mail their absentee ballots now, perhaps to try to taint all late arriving ballots:

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/11/6/1993348/-Trump-s-Wisconsin-campaign-workers-recruits-volunteers-to-commit-election-fraud-in-Pennsylvania

    Never let it be said that Trumps fans lose gracefully.

    Victor (4959fb)

  129. Sammy, you take things too literally. Really.

    A “stamp” is anything that causes the post office to accept it as postage-paid. It can be a stamp, a frank, a SASE, a reply mail permit, whatever. The point is that the mailing does not cost the sender a cent.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  130. If refusing to vote for either Sh*t Sandwich or Douchebag puts me in a bad light in God’s eye, I still feel confident this non-attorney can make a compelling case to avoid a fine.

    Well, Stan eventually did vote, just not the way Kyle wanted.

    This is a funny answer to your choice to abstain. But here you’re criticizing me and others for picking, say, turd sandwich, which suggests that the douche was the better vote (after all, you’re saying we better own up to what the turd does even though we COULD HAVE kept the douche in office, or, at the very least, stood on the sidelines and let someone else make the decision for us).

    This is very convenient, because it relieves you of any moral obgliation to vote for either the turd or the douche yourself. Suppose that voting for one of the two options was mandatory. Who would you have selected?

    johnnyagreeable (a9ba4b)

  131. If refusing to vote for either Sh*t Sandwich or Douchebag puts me in a bad light in God’s eye

    I think that God’s Gimlet Eye is looking elsewhere.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  132. 124. steveg (43b7a5) — 11/6/2020 @ 8:59 am

    Trumps lawyers have to hope they’ll find that crookedness, and find it

    Moatly (aside from irrelevant lawsuits that won’t change the outcome even if they win the case) they’re looking for examples of votes that were counted that shouldn’t have been counted, and then arguing that all similar votes (that can no longer be separated) should e thrown out even if the good ones should outnumber the bad ones 99 to 1.

    In Nevada for instance their argument is that some people who voted by mail had moved out of state because of Covid and were no longer residents of the state because they’d been living elsewhere for more than 30 days.

    But their first example(s) were military people, who can remain residents if they are posted overseas (also if they are posted within the United States?)

    State legislatures can select the electors if none are certified by 6 days before the Electoral College votes.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  133. encouraging Republicans in Pennsylvania to mail their absentee ballots now, perhaps to try to taint all late arriving ballot

    None of the ballots tabulated in PA arrived after election day. Those ballots remain sequestered, pending a demand by the loser to count them.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  134. So they’ve already counted the military ballots?

    In 2016, 7,788 members of the military voted by mail in Pennsylvania, according to the U.S. Election Assistance Commission.

    “I’ll also just remind everyone, military and overseas ballots are not due until a week after Election Day,” Pennsylvania Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar said at a news conference Wednesday. “We want to make sure that not only every civilian absentee mail-in valid voter is counted but also that every man and woman who are serving our country, that their votes are counted.”

    Dana (6995e0)

  135. that is good to hear, mr. Kevin M @134

    poor mr. one-term president donald trump, who is drinking malted milk trying to drive his blues away baby he needs loving like the flowers need may, feels every ballot opening like the sting of a lash

    i take no responsibility for how much more of it he can stand

    nk (1d9030)

  136. There are still 60,000 PA ballots to be counted from places outside Philly and Pittsburgh. Biden’s lead is still in the noise and most of the recent results have come from Philadelphia County. There’s a reason why the race is still uncalled by most agencies.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  137. SILVER LINING POST!

    Feel free to add…

    Premised with the idea that the GOP retains the Senate.

    1) Keep in mind that Joe Biden actively sought for this office for over 30 years. I don’t think he’ll see himself as a “caretaker” and letting Kamala Harris pulling the strings. And since the crazed left in Congress would be dealt with by Cocaine Mitch, there’s no reason for Biden to fall over to every leftist dream. Look for Harris to be sidelined.

    2) Stacked righting courts, particularly 6-3 SCOTUS. Prepare for lawfare from the right that we haven’t seen in living memory.

    3) With Mitch at the helm, Biden won’t be able to get his extreme political appointees through. He’ll have to moderate his pick… so, no Liz Warren or Andrew Weissman for any politcal posts.

    4) Democrats will have to compromise with GOP Senate to get anything they want. Cocaine Mitch will be the most powerful man while the Democrats holds a weak House and the Whitehouse.

    5) GOP made significant gains in state elections, which is important due efforts to gerrymander districts.

    6) Bidens will probably have his way with his non-SCOTUS judges, such that look for Cocaine Mitch to extract some concessions on other things. However, Mitch would likely not floor a left SCOTUS, forcing Biden to moderate. (ie, Hell yea Mitch would allow Garland a vote for a retiring Souter, but not a vote for a radical leftist judge)

    BAD POLICIES THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WILL PUSH
    1) Look for open border policies to be pushed through.
    2) Look for Paris Accord to be back in the news. (although this time, Senate has to ratify so it’s not likely to happen).
    3) Look for US to go back into the Iran Deal though.
    4) Look for Biden to rescind the Tariffs against China w/o extracting any concessions.
    5) Look for Biden admin to re-institute Critical Race theory in all departments.

    Any other thoughts?

    whembly (ef8c84)

  138. “ Suppose that voting for one of the two options was mandatory. Who would you have selected?”
    _

    lol – you’d fit in great in Portland.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  139. It is not clear to me whether the list on the PA count site includes late arriving ballots. That may be why the numbers from the smaller counties never change. I’m sure they’ll say eventually.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  140. Look for Biden admin to re-institute Critical Race theory in all departments.

    I think this one can be made subject to the Administrative Procedures Act, and individuals can always assert they are being subjected to racial harassment in the workplace.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  141. @129: Oh wow, a DailyKos link. Victor, I’ll bet a good chunk of their loyal readers would’ve like to have voted for Hawkins in WI and PA, but were prevented from doing so by the party that, err, just wants every voter to have their say.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  142. 130 Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/6/2020 @ 9:08 am

    . The point is that the mailing does not cost the sender a cent.

    I just noticed that wasn’t the case in New York this year, unless you took it to your local polling place, or any polling pace, on Election Day, or any early voting site on the days they were open, or a Board of Elections office.

    Or they mailed me the wrong one after it was requested on Monday. October 26. It arrived on Saturday, October 31. (I don’t recall the absentee ballot my father used in 1996 requiring a stamp.)

    I didn’t use it. I voted in person. In New York any vote cast in person takes precedence and none of the absentee ballots, constituting about 1/6 of all the votes this year, will be counted till after 5 pm next Tuesday, I think. (or they can count those checked against the names of people who voted in person)

    New York has no excuses in-person voting for those who requested absentee ballots. It took awhile for that to become clear but they made it clear for the general election. Some states do not allow people who requested absentee ballots to vote in person at all.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  143. @41
    whembly (a3f260) — 11/6/2020 @ 7:28 am

    Now, the expectation going forward you scrutinize the Biden administration, even based on their personality faults, as you did under the Trump administration.
    Do you really expect that? I don’t. We’ve seen this movie before. We’re did the anti-war crowd go when BO was elected?

    There are a lot of people who voted for Biden because Trump lies who also think Biden is lying. Either that or they’re “conservatives” who have no issues with Biden’s platform. People in the first group are going to have issues even acknowledging the lie and people in the second are already flapping in the breeze.

    frosty (f27e97) — 11/6/2020 @ 7:45 am

    I don’t expect it from the left and the media (BIRM).

    However, from the Trump/GOP critics of the right, yes that is my expectation. You’ll know you’re on target if they respond by disingenuously saying you’re engaging whattaboutery.

    whembly (ef8c84) — 11/6/2020 @ 8:54 am

    FWIW, both of you have always engaged with the facts honestly, even if you’ve reached conclusions I didn’t. I’d expect anyone that had interacted with you in the past to treat questions from you fairly. I don’t know how much time I’d have for someone that hadn’t….

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  144. I asked for a ballot in early October, returned it and they confirmed in received on October 22nd.

    Contrary to all accounts, I got several mailings from the Trump people with NM mail-ballot request forms. I wonder if Trump knew.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  145. Congrats to all the ‘Conservatives’ who helped put Biden/Harris in charge of the Executive. You got what you wanted and you own it.

    Can we then assume that you accept that Trump owns this entire mess? Can you let him own the fact that for 4 years, he got what he wanted when he single-handedly dismantled the Republican Party and substantially damaged its reputation? Certainly, it won’t be Trump or Trumpism that will remake the Party into the side that draws Americans in, not drives them out. Can you let Trump own the fact that he was firmly guided by self-interest, corruption, greed, and expanding the Trump Brand in his decision-making? Because Trump owns it all .

    Dana (6995e0)

  146. lol – you’d fit in great in Portland.

    I don’t understand what this means.

    It’s a pure thought experiment. I wouldn’t actually desire that as a policy. I am just trying to figure out which of the two candidates you think is less unfit to lead than the other, if you were forced to choose.

    If you can’t answer, that suggests they are equally unfit, and, by extension, equally fit. In which case someone who chose to vote cannot be blamed for anything bad that occurs because both options were equally poor. True, the individual ways in which they are poor will be quite different, but on balance those distinctions will produce equally bad outcomes.

    johnnyagreeable (a9ba4b)

  147. whembly (ef8c84) — 11/6/2020 @ 9:21 am

    2) Look for Paris Accord to be back in the news. (although this time, Senate has to ratify so it’s not likely to happen).

    They had to ratify it last time and Obama didn’t try, I think,

    The pullout by the Trump administration only became effective on Wednesday, November 5. It would take Biden only one month to get the United States back in. Of course, none of it means anything, anyway.

    3) Look for US to go back into the Iran Deal though.

    and fail to get Iran to agree. But he could lift some sanctions unilaterally.

    5) Look for Biden admin to re-institute Critical Race theory in all departments.

    Remember what you said about Senate confirmations?

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  148. @144 Time123 (d1bf33) — 11/6/2020 @ 9:26 am

    Thanks Time.

    whembly (ef8c84)

  149. My expectation for Biden is that he will be pressured from his Left quite a bit, but that he is in a position where that pressure is only transactional. All they can do to him is withhold cooperation; he’s not running for re-election. If anything, it’s about “legacy.”

    And if it’s about legacy, then is it about some Great Program, or is it about “Bringing Us Together Again.” He ran on the latter, his party ran on the former.

    I guess we’ll find out.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  150. Honestly, I feel no reason to justify Trump’s departure, and even less to console the people distressed by said departure. FDT! And his supporters, too!

    nk (1d9030)

  151. From the Wapo:

    Georgia: Trump’s lead in the vote count in Georgia is about 1,800 votes as of 11:15 p.m. Eastern. Just over 14,000 votes were left to be counted, and about 8,900 requested overseas and military ballots have till tomorrow to arrive.

    and

    Votes cast by military personnel could assume greater importance as the race between Trump and Biden narrowed to a handful of battleground states that accept service members’ ballots after Election Day.

    Authorities in Georgia, North Carolina, Nevada, Arizona, Pennsylvania and Alaska continued to count ballots and wait for others yet to arrive, including those cast by uniformed troops and their families stationed away from their homes.

    I have no clue what the numbers are, but I wondered about their ballots.

    Dana (6995e0)

  152. it is what it is mr nk

    Dave (1bb933)

  153. Can we then assume that you accept that Trump owns this entire mess?

    A classic begging the question fallacy.

    I own the past four years, but I don’t see any mess other than what Trump critics manufactured with their incessant pouting and wailing. Four years of contesting the results of the last election.

    When they voted, “real conservatives” knew what sort of nut job judges Biden will appoint, his open door immigration policy, more regulation, war on fossil fuels, taxes. No surprises there, so you own it. Enjoy. I know I will.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  154. So, you’ll be discussing the possibility that Biden may be influenced by the Chinese government?
    It may be nothing, but it *is* worth investigating…no?

    It’s worth investigating. Whether evidence turns up, who knows. As they say, one standard.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  155. Given the millions of people involved in counting the votes, it is a statistical certainty that there is crookedness out there.

    What is the statistical probability that all the crookedness is done by Dems – regardless of which party controls the state government?

    Trump said that the only legitimate outcome would be a win for himself. He suggested that his fans should vote twice. He said that counting should stop before all the mail-ins have been tallied. Now GOP officials are telling Trumpers to keep sending in ballots after the legal deadline.

    And you think the Trump-led GOP would never, ever try to cheat? When Trump is head of the party, it doesn’t exactly send the message of honesty and integrity and impartial adherence to legal process.

    The pro-Trump narrative now maintains that Dems orchestrated a deep conspiracy to keep Trump from getting the presidency, but they failed while they controlled the executive branch. Then when Trump controlled the executive branch, the Dems pulled off a deep conspiracy to prevent his reelection. Never mind that polls consistently showed him behind the challenger; it just had to be fraudulent, because Trump himself said that such a result would necessarily be fraudulent.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  156. @154, it’s ironic that you perceive a fallacy and then employ the “no true Scotsman” fallacy with respect to conservatives as the ultimate, er, (T)rump card.

    Do you seriously maintain that the litany of long time conservative leaders and thinkers who voted for Biden are not actually conservative? Like, for example, George Will is not a “real conservative”?

    johnnyagreeable (a9ba4b)

  157. Trump – irony squared:

    Twitter is out of control, made possible through the government gift of Section 230!

    More:

    “This is what we know. We have to go back to the state level and how this morass came to be in the first instance. The Governor, Wolf, and the State Supreme Court, flagrantly violated the Constitution of the U.S. The power to set these rules and regulations is vested in the Legislature. They just ignored that, ignored the Constitution. Now we bring it down to the counting houses, and outrageously, observers, who are the sentinels of integrity & transparency, were excluded. Pennsylvania has conducted itself in a horrible lawless way, and hopefully this will be corrected at the Supreme Court of the United States. Also, these late ballots past Election Day are illegal, exactly what the President has been saying. The Supreme Court, in extraordinary circumstances, has been able to render decisions in a matter of days.” Ken Starr, former Independent Counsel

    IOW, no matter what the math says, the pollsters say, the vote counts are, and the registrar of voters and Secretaries of State say, he has absolutely no plans whatsoever to go gentle into that good night.

    Dana (6995e0)

  158. In New Mexico, a voter could sign an affidavit to cancel a mail ballot and vote in person instead. That could mean no mail ballots could be counted until the polls close, or it could mean that the in person vote was counted only if the mail ballot did not arrive by the end of Election Day. The in person ballot was a provisional one. Not so in New York State.

    In Arizona they could count mail ballots, but someone could also cast a provisional ballot in person.

    In Pennsylvania, if a person surrenders a mail ballot they can vote in person. but if a mail ballot is not surrendered it’s a provisional ballot, and no mail ballots are processed until Election Day.

    Now in Georgia the New York Times had that if a person surrenders a mail ballot they can vote in person. and if they don’t they can sign an affidavit (saying what?) and cast a regular ballot. It didn’t specifically say when they can start counting the mail ballots.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  159. Reading the information on the PA Count site (page 2), which is not cut-and-pastable, it says two things:

    1) The ballot counts include all ballots received and entered into the system as of today.
    2) Those ballots received after 8PM Nov 3rd are separated and their votes are not tabulated.

    As of now there are 124,000 ballots remaining unprocessed within the system, roughly 100,000 in Philly and Pittsburgh metro, the rest in other counties.

    Biden currently leads by almost 10,000 votes.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  160. When they voted, “real conservatives” knew what sort of nut job judges Biden will appoint

    By the time Biden is sworn in, McConnell will have filled every last open seat.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  161. Okay, so you can take or leave Trump– but you live in Erie, PA., and your husband works for a tool company in Meadville supplying equipment to a fracking firm associated with Quaker State/Pennzoil outside of Titusville, why would you vote for Biden, when he gaffed on the record in a debate to end fracking, your family’s very livelihood, a week before election day? That’ like a W.Va., coal miner voting for Hillary when she wanted to ‘transition’ out of coal.

    Even allowing for the Pgh/Philly/Harrisburg/State College/blue blocs, every energy producing state in America went for Trump except Pennsylvania?!

    It just doesn’t add up– unless you ‘count’ “early voting/mail-in voting” as the culprit.

    You may or can disagree w/Trump on everything– but he’s absolutely correct about the early voting/mail-in voting scam. It’s a bad trend. If you’re going to adopt this as the norm, who needs long campaigns, debates, vigorous media scrutiny or even an election day at all?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  162. Sammy, most states did not COUNT mail ballots until the polls closed. Not necessary. The labor-intensive step with mail ballots is signature comparison and other validation steps. With the typical double-envelope system, this can be done ahead of time without acquiring knowledge of the voter’s choices. The validated ballots are then put in a stack for counting after the polls close.

    Some states did not allow this validation to occur ahead of time because their legislatures are filled with stupid people.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  163. As of now there are 124,000 ballots remaining unprocessed within the system, roughly 100,000 in Philly and Pittsburgh metro, the rest in other counties.

    Philly is D; Pgh., [except possibly Sewickley & Fox Chapel] are solid D.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  164. As they say, one standard.

    They say it all right. But no evidence of that, either.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  165. Some Philly metro counties are neutral. None are red.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  166. Georgia: Trump’s lead in the vote count in Georgia is about 1,800 votes as of 11:15 p.m. Eastern. Just over 14,000 votes were left to be counted, and about 8,900 requested overseas and military ballots have till tomorrow to arrive.

    Hey, if we can’t wait until the military ballots arrive. Tough. Some votes count more than others.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  167. DSCA, I live in Allegheny County and quite close to the border of Washington County, where fracking is quite big. This is purely ancedotal but I think even among groups that would traditionally be in favor of energy production the support isn’t as strong as you’d imagine. (Again, caveat here this is all my impression from living in the area and talking to folks.)

    For instance, my wife is from a town in Beaver County, which is currently seeing construction of a large cracker plant. Her folks still live there, are very blue collar types, and while they apppreciate the money energy brings in, they are quite fearful of the long term environmental consequences. A big story in our papers not so long ago was the possibility of a cancer cluster. People who still use wells think the water quality is tainted.

    The families who directly benefit from energy jobs may hold their nose and vote, but people who benefit only tangentially may think the tradeoffs aren’t worth it.

    johnnyagreeable (a9ba4b)

  168. . The Governor, Wolf, and the State Supreme Court, flagrantly violated the Constitution of the U.S. The power to set these rules and regulations is vested in the Legislature. They just ignored that, ignored the Constitution.

    Trump’s contention is that the power of the state legislature to set the rules for federal elections is a plenary power and not reviewable against anything in other state laws or its constitution. This is a position taken by Justices Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch and maybe Kavanaugh.

    Chief Justice Roberts says that, like in most cases, a state’s top court is the determiner of what state law says, and their decisions are not reviewable by federal courts, no matter how odd they strike you. But there are no federal rights, beyond what the constitution mandates (14th, 15th, 19th, 24th, 26th amendments etc.

    Justice Amy Coney Barrett hasn’t studied this but probably wants to get it right in her eyes.

    Justices Breyer, Sotomayor and Kagan are inclined to find voting rights that apply in federal law or the constitution.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  169. no matter what the math says, the pollsters say, the vote counts are,

    Trumpers have made a big deal about how very wrong the polls were. But when the final vote count gets closer to what the polls were showing, they claim it can’t possibly be an honest count.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  170. The race is not called until the associated Press does it, and Biden, particularly because is partisans made such a big fuss about how Facebook and Twitter should not accept premature claims of victory, won’t claim victory until it is generally accepted.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  171. Justices Breyer, Sotomayor and Kagan are inclined to find voting rights that apply in federal law or the constitution.

    They will find voting rights that appeal to the liberal left and then wrangle it to apply to federal law or the constitution.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  172. 166.Some Philly metro counties are neutral. None are red.

    Rizzo’s Philly– the one I knew-was blue, blue, blue through and through. The only difference between Philly and Camden- was the Delaware River that separated them.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  173. Instead of firing Dr. Atlas, I’d like to see President Biden send him on a mission in Sweden, where the neuroradiologist can personally test herd immunity.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  174. IOW, no matter what the math says, the pollsters say, the vote counts are, and the registrar of voters and Secretaries of State say, he has absolutely no plans whatsoever to go gentle into that good night.

    Is there a worse example to follow than Trump critics the past four years?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  175. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/6/2020 @ 9:55 am

    Some states did not allow this validation to occur ahead of time because their legislatures are filled with stupid people.

    No, the issue is if someone who requested a mail ballot can still vote in person.

    There are 3 possible choices:

    A) Absolutely not. If the mail ballot is never delivered, he has lost his vote, unless maybe he requests a replacement. If it arrives late, tough luck. If they make a fatal mistake in how they return it, also tough luck.

    B) Yes, but only a provisional ballot. Mail ballot takes priority. Voter may not know which one will count. In one variant, voter may hand in mail ballot and vote in person in the regular way.

    C) Yes, and this cancels the absentee ballot, which means no mail ballots can be counted until after the polls close on Election Day. Nobody will fear that they can lose their vote by requesting an absentee ballot, but they can still lose their vote by flubbing the way they fill it out and return it. Usual failure rate for inexperienced voters: Between 10% and 20%

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  176. @168. I was born there, lived there; Plesnt Hills/Brentwood; 150 years of family buried there; went to college up in Meadville; grandparents active in Pgh/Allegheny County and Harrisburg politics/civics as well so I know it pretty well. North of Pgh., up toward Erie and around Crawford County, etc., the smaller oil patches were still producing resources and fracking was a big $ boom for them in those rural ‘burgs’ and ‘villes’. Erie is still a small industrial town and flipping back to Biden was a signal for sure. But it just doesn’t add up even w/t reliable Pgh., Philly/State College/Harrisburg blue blocs to vote against your economic interests unless the early voting thin is the critical factor.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  177. Trump seemed to have no problem declaring victory over Hillary with 1% or less in Wisc., Penn, and Mich. back in 2016

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  178. Is there a worse example to follow than Trump critics the past four years?

    Absolutely. Trump’s butt gerbils in government. Nobody has been paying me to badmouth Trump, whereas the taxpayers have been those parasites to kiss his ass to the detriment of the American people.

    nk (1d9030)

  179. Didn’t you once claim Trump is your only GOP Presidential vote, DCSCA?

    DRJ (aede82)

  180. the taxpayers have been *paying* those parasites

    nk (1d9030)

  181. Trump seemed to have no problem declaring victory over Hillary with 1% or less in Wisc., Penn, and Mich. back in 2016

    Funny thing. He was right.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  182. I think immigration is an issue also in Georgia. It has many new or relatively new immigrants. The Republican Party is very anti immigration and that can help it for awhile – it fades and turns the other way as people see predictions of disaster do not happen.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  183. 183, that might be what played out in Minnesota, re the Somalis, ilhan omar notwithstanding. I dont think there is new/current wave of Somalis as in the mid to late 1990s, thus the appeal of a Bachmann like message has waned over time. Also, there was more likely to be “rooftop Somalis” as there was to be rioting/marching Somalis during this summer’s unrest.

    urbanleftbehind (ab2a96)

  184. … he has absolutely no plans whatsoever to go gentle into that good night.
    Is there a worse example to follow than Trump critics the past four years?

    Were Trump critics all holding some high office that they refused to relinquish?
    If you’re suggesting that all criticism of Trump should have stopped once he was elected — which I think you are — then anyone who disapproves of Pres. Biden should just shut up henceforth.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  185. @182 beer and pretzels

    Funny thing this time all three broke the other way and now he has a problem with it?

    schadenfreude !

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  186. @168. Postscript- point is, if I told you a week before an election that I was going to actively work to end/transition away from/phase out your livelihood–which affects not just you but your family, your real estate values and any collateral businesses [diners/assorted services/etc.,] I’d probably not vote for you– which fits w/what occurred to HRC coal miners and w/t other energy producing states this cycle. That’s why what is or has occurred in PA doesn’t fully add up unless you account for getting snookered by the early voting ploy. It’s just a bad trend that’s becoming a norm.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  187. It’s interesting that neither the NYT nor WaPo have called PA yet.

    Dana (6995e0)

  188. In regard to the pandemic the president said:

    “It will be gone by Easter” and when it didn’t go he was gone by election day

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  189. @180. You talking to me DRJ?? Thought you weren’t. 😉

    Hardly. I voted for Jerry Ford. I genuinely liked Ford. I met Ford. I have a superb photo signed of him I took frame up w/a Ford bumper sticker and WIN button in the den. He was a very good man… for some one from Michigan. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  190. There is one argument I may possibly consider that the election is being “stolen” from Trump.

    And that argument is … wait for it …: “Who has not been eating Trump’s lunch over the past four years?” Putin, Xi, Kim, Erdogan, bin Salman, Netanyahu, Pelosi, they’ve all been having their way with him. So why shouldn’t Biden be having his way with him too?

    nk (1d9030)

  191. Hoi Polloi (66077a) — 11/6/2020 @ 9:00 am

    He should be listening to scientists instead of dancing with Jill and maybe rubbing some young intern’s shoulders.

    No, he shouldn’t.

    You know, the D could make one simple recommendation and cut the Covid mortality rate for people who listen and have the opportunity to take advantage of it, in half. And it’s not masks.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/can-vitamin-d-help-fight-covid-19-11604326204

    Dozens of studies now under way are looking into possible links between vitamin-D deficiency and coronavirus. One, published online in JAMA in September, used data from 489 patients in Chicago. It showed the risk of testing positive for the disease was 1.77 times higher for people with a deficiency compared with those with adequate levels of vitamin D… [That means it helps the body fight it upon initial exposure]

    …The U.S. and EU have suggested 15 micrograms (600 international units) daily are needed to optimize health. The U.K. recommends 10 micrograms to avoid a deficiency. The U.S. recommends that people over 70 have 20 micrograms daily. Susan Lanham-New, a professor of human nutrition at Surrey University in England, says most people will get about three micrograms a day through their diet, the other natural source being summer sunlight. [Lower for dark skinned people]

    Vitamin D can interfere with the effectiveness of a handful of drugs, but its main risks occur when levels in the blood get too high. All three authorities agree on a safe upper limit of 100 micrograms daily, and that doses beyond that don’t yield any extra benefit. Taking very large doses over time can do harm, authorities warn, leading to excessive blood calcium levels and damage to the liver and kidneys…. [over time, because, like Vitamin A, the body stores it. So maybe taking just one megadose, if it’s not too high, and if you haven’t taken megadoses before, can substantially cut the risk of Covid. Of course it may still not be a good idea if your liver is damaged.]

    A pilot study at a hospital in Córdoba, Spain, goes further, suggesting the nutrient may help treat Covid. There, patients hospitalized with Covid were treated with a high dose of calcifediol, a derivative of vitamin D that is easily absorbed through the gut. A control group of Covid patients didn’t get calcifediol but otherwise received the same best-available therapy.

    Now, look at this:

    In Córdoba, of 50 patients who received calcifediol, two entered intensive care and none died. Of 26 in the control group, 13 entered intensive care and two died. The two groups were chosen at random, but those in the calcifediol-treated group were on average slightly healthier—although also older.

    Because it is so small, the study isn’t conclusive. But it has encouraged efforts to seek a definitive answer using large randomized controlled trials, the industry gold standard. Two, each involving up to 1,000 patients, are under way in Spain.

    Is continuing with this trial truly ethical?

    …nearly half of Americans suffer from vitamin-D deficiency…

    ,,,Vitamin D deficiency is associated with many Covid-19 risk factors. It is rife among Black, Hispanic and South Asian people who are also more susceptible to the new coronavirus and suffer worse outcomes than whites.

    A lack of vitamin D also is linked in many studies with a host of conditions such as hypertension and diabetes that increase people’s chances of catching Covid-19 and, if they get it, of suffering more serious symptoms and death.

    “I could make a list of 50 diseases: If you are D deficient, then you have a higher risk of all these diseases but that’s an association and doesn’t prove anything about causality, ” said Roger Bouillon, emeritus professor in endocrinology at the University of Leuven in Belgium and one of the authors of the Córdoba study.

    Sure, sure, it doesn’t say anything. Keep on saying that to yourself. Or worse, misleading others.

    Now I think more calcium can substitute for Vitamin D. It may be the blood levels of calcium that matter. It is a little bit more complicated. But not very much, beyond your ability to guess.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  192. If you’re suggesting that all criticism of Trump should have stopped once he was elected

    All criticism of Trump should stop once Biden is inaugurated, that is for sure. No “but Trump!” when Biden does something stupid, or wrong. Which will happen. Including the inevitable “Biden can’t succeed because Trump messed everything up!” Yawn.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  193. @188

    It’s interesting that neither the NYT nor WaPo have called PA yet.

    Dana (6995e0) — 11/6/2020 @ 10:32 am

    That is strange. Biden’s lead looks solid enough to weather any recounts.

    What are they seeing that we’re not??

    whembly (ef8c84)

  194. Now I think more calcium can substitute for Vitamin D. It may be the blood levels of calcium that matter. It is a little bit more complicated. But not very much, beyond your ability to guess.
    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/6/2020 @ 10:42 am

    Are you saying that as a scientist? Because calcium =/= vitamin D.

    And be careful citing a study:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis

    Science is not what most people think it is.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  195. Here’s the latest from Trump on fraud: “We’ll release the voter fraud proof, and the coronavirus vaccine, and my better-than-Obamacare healthcare plan, and my taxes, all in about two weeks.”
    If a Friedman unit is six months, a Trump unit is a fortnight. /sarc

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  196. If you’re suggesting that all criticism of Trump should have stopped once he was elected — which I think you are — then anyone who disapproves of Pres. Biden should just shut up henceforth.

    Not even close to suggesting that.

    Between criticizing a president and spending four years trying to overturn the election through a bogus SC “insurance policy” and impeachment flail there’s a lot of wide open territory. You don’t seem to see it.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  197. @188
    It’s interesting that neither the NYT nor WaPo have called PA yet.
    Dana (6995e0) — 11/6/2020 @ 10:32 am

    That is strange. Biden’s lead looks solid enough to weather any recounts.

    What are they seeing that we’re not??

    whembly (ef8c84) — 11/6/2020 @ 10:45 am

    A huge downside to being wrong.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  198. Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313) — 11/6/2020 @ 10:34 am

    In regard to the pandemic the president said:

    “It will be gone by Easter” and when it didn’t go he was gone by election day

    He was wrong, and he really knew he was wrong well beyond the time he continued saying that. He wanted to re-open.

    But that doesn’t mean that every optimistic thing he sad or would say was wrong.

    Smmetime like now, he had a basis for it.

    (some bumps along the road, but mostly optimistic)

    https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/coronavirus-tracker-novavax-boasts-billion-plus-shot-capacity-by-2021-russia-s-world-first

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  199. Between criticizing a president and spending four years trying to overturn the election through a bogus SC “insurance policy” and impeachment flail there’s a lot of wide open territory. You don’t seem to see it.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/6/2020 @ 10:49 am

    Nice unfounded conspiracy theory.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  200. I agree with Time123. They don’t want to be “Chicago Tribune ‘Dewey Wins'”ed.

    nk (1d9030)

  201. Ah…very good points Time123 and nk.

    whembly (ef8c84)

  202. @180. Will go down the list DRJ, if it makes you squeal; Grandparets were full FDR until he passed; Grandmother then went for Dewey– she wasn’t wild about Harry; Grandpa for Truman; Mom liked Ike and Nixon but ridiculed to her box on the mantle in front of me for Goldwater 😉 Grandpa/Dad for JFK then LBJ & Nixon; I voted for The Big Dick, once -the bastard ws supposed to stop the war but didn’t; refused to again; Jerry Ford-loved him; Anderson- a protes againt both Vodoo economics Reagan and Carter; [preferred GHWB in 80, though] Reagan 2nd time [lousy choices but Mondale was anti-NASA] GHWB finally, in spite of Quayle [Dukie’s response to Bernie Shaw was just creepy], Bubba, Gore, Kerry, Obama- twice, Trump, twice.

    Tomorrow, I’ll vote for Nikki Haley for POTUS in 2024. Vote by mail early. It’s the in thing now. Like Plagiarsm. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  203. 201.I agree with Time123. They don’t want to be “Chicago Tribune ‘Dewey Wins’”ed.

    OTOH, in this day and age, it would sell a helluva lot more papers w/t wrong headline.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  204. I’ll at least be back in the 2024 R primary so long as im in Illinois and you dont have to pre register by party. But there may not be the novelty and record-off-needle stares when I pipe up for the Republican ballot.

    urbanleftbehind (ab2a96)

  205. @199 Sammy Finkelman

    Being “optimistic” had nothing to do with it as proven by his comments to Bob Woodward. The president had one thing and one thing only on his mind and that was his re-election. His actions border on criminal.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  206. His actions border on criminal.

    LOL. It never ends.

    Starting Jan 20, the crimes are on Biden’s ledger. Trump will be as responsible as you guys held China to account, meaning zilch.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  207. Since I see South Park is now entered the thread, I have a response to all Trump supporters who spent all their time since the summer of 2016 insulting people like me for not climbing on board their deranged and toxic bandwagon:

    https://youtu.be/a-ixntLruNs

    That is all. You may resume your regularly scheduled recriminations.

    Demosthenes (fdb2d4)

  208. 195.

    Are you saying that as a scientist? Because calcium =/= vitamin D.

    No. Just as a good student, and reader.

    The problem is we don’t have any theoretical medical scientists, unlike the way it is in physics.

    Calcium does pretty much equal Vitamin D. Vitamin D is nothing by itself:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D

    Vitamin D is a group of fat-soluble secosteroids responsible for increasing intestinal absorption of calcium, magnesium, and phosphate, and many other biological effects.[1][2] In humans, the most important compounds in this group are vitamin D3 (also known as cholecalciferol) and vitamin D2 (ergocalciferol).[1][2] …Vitamin D has a significant role in calcium homeostasis and metabolism.

    I read something else somewhere some time more specific.

    Unless nothing is absorbed at all, more calcium (and maybe magnesium) can substitute for less Vitamin D.

    John P. A. Ioannidis is right that most published research findings are false, but sometimes, I think, he’s wrong about which study was false and which was true. Sometimes it is the second one that is false, or rigged, and you can sometimes figure out how.

    The first one is wrong when you have someone like Brett Kavanaugh accuser Christine Blasey Ford fixing up the papers, which was her biggest job.

    Science is not what most people think it is.

    Anybody who read Isaac Asimov about his scientific career, or some of his stories, would know this.

    I find efforts to say that people should uncritically believe the scientists terrible.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  209. @207. And Harris will make sure of it- she’ll want a clean slate when she takes office in late 2022.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  210. Regarding the transition, Trump can’t stop it unless he intends to violate even more federal law.

    For purposes of section 3(c) of the Presidential Transition Act of 1963, the “President-Elect” is the “apparent successful candidate … as ascertained by the Administrator” of the General Services Administration

    Ms. Murphy does not appear to be an in-the-bag sycophant.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  211. Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313) — 11/6/2020 @ 11:02 am

    Being “optimistic” had nothing to do with it as proven by his comments to Bob Woodward.

    That was kind of ripped out of context. Donald Trump was telling Woodward how terrible he thought the coronavirus could be, not saying that it would spread in the United States. How bad it could be was not news to Woodward or anyone else.

    Now Trump, separately, did try to say coming down with it wasn’t so serious. He could say it was no worse than the flu because for years the CDC had wildly exaggerated the mortality rate of the flu as part of its propaganda campaign to get people to take flu shots, and the estimate for the ovid mortality rate was about the same.

    The president had one thing and one thing only on his mind and that was his re-election.

    And he even had a wrong idea of the way it worked.

    He thought the economy was everything, and he didn’t want, he really, really didn’t want for the economy to get worse.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  212. @212 So long as the outcome isn’t solidified, it behooves all parties for the Biden administration go have a normal transition.

    …and no, having the current administration spy on the incoming is NOT normal.

    whembly (c30c83)

  213. @212: The GSA mucked with the Trump transition, so yeah no doubt they’ll rubber stamp a Biden victory. Don’t fret.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  214. @207 beer and pretzels

    Trump lied and Americans died. The 230,000+ Americans that died will be on your incompetent imbecile ledger.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  215. @ 213 Sammy Finkelman:

    No it wasn’t taken out of context. He admitted he knew how bad it was. Sure he knew the economy was his ticket to re-election but reelection was still the basis for his incompetence. As far as knowing how things work Trump doesn’t have an idea on many things how they work such as the Constitution.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  216. @177 My family has been in NE since the 1870s and I lived there for a while and have a ton of relatives living and buried there and I called NE2 wrong. Places change.

    @187 Unless you see it already coming and prefer an orderly transition with benefits to you, instead of a dramatic end that ends up in tragedy for everyone involved.

    @197 You do remember that Trump personally spent the Obama administration trying to prove that Obama was born in Kenya and needed to be thrown out of office, right? I don’t think he should get to be whiny about his impression of what happened during his term. Also, not being shady probably would’ve helped him.

    Nic (896fdf)

  217. Trump lied and Americans died. The 230,000+ Americans that died will be on your incompetent imbecile ledger.

    Relax, the election’s over. You and the media don’t have to feign outrage about it anymore.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  218. DSCA,

    I probably would have realized your connection here if I had seen your comment that mentioned Sewickley and Fox Chapel. That’s cool. Again, it’s all anecdotal from my side but I don’t think people love fracking. They’re leery of the ramifications, IMO. There’s an ambivalence; maybe they don’t necessarily want it to definitively go away but they wouldn’t necessarily be sad about it, either.

    Plus, I’m originally from Cambria county, where coal and steel were big. A lot of people I knew didn’t really want Trump to bring those industries back as he said he would…but for those who did, the fact he didn’t deliver on those promises (nor could he have) is a factor, too.

    johnnyagreeable (a9ba4b)

  219. @ beer and pretzels

    BTW I’m a NeverTrumper who left the Republican party and didn’t vote in this or the 2016 election so spare me your name calling rhetoric

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  220. Georgia will go into a recount, without any campaign having to ask for it.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  221. This is what could happen when gullible fools take to heart Trump’s arm-waving about massive voter fraud: They attempt a domestic terrorist attack on innocent vote-counting civilians.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  222. You and the media don’t have to feign outrage about it anymore.

    No feigning here. I’m still genuinely outraged by Trump’s mass negligent homicide due to his gross mismanagement of CV19.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  223. I wonder now that Biden is elected president anyone in the media will push back on his claim that he would have sent experts to China to study COVID, even though China would not have let them in.

    How do you say “C’mon, man!” in Mandarin?

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  224. a domestic terrorist attack

    LOL. Were they fascists, Montagu? Like the Texas caravan fascists you hyperventilated about?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  225. Call me a skeptic, but I don’t believe Trump will pull this off.
    I hope there won’t be any sky-screamers on Inauguration Day.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  226. Not even close to suggesting that.

    Actually, it was pretty close to suggesting that when you said “Trump critics” had set a terrible example over the past four years, and likened “Trump critics” to a president resisting his defeat at the polls. I.e., being a “Trump critic” was itself the original sin.

    And how exactly did “Trump critics” try to “overturn” an election? An impeachment and removal would have put Pence in charge — which might have saved the White House for the GOP. And the vast majority of “Trump critics” played no part in the impeachment at all.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  227. Relax, the election’s over. You and the media don’t have to feign outrage about it anymore.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/6/2020 @ 11:34 am

    Consider the possibility we cared about this all along, that it really is sad that 20% more Americans died this year than other years, that the mistakes with Trump and his fans were obnoxious and killed people. Maybe we’re actually normal folks. It might be easier if we weren’t, that you only disagreed with people who must be wrong. I know I’d have a hard time imagining myself supporting a democrat for President even 5 years ago. But once you pierce that partisan bubble you realize things are better, not worse.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  228. 217. Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313) — 11/6/2020 @ 11:30 am

    No it wasn’t taken out of context. He admitted he knew how bad it was.

    This was being confused with the idea that it could be kept from spreading within the United States, which he said. You know he talked about how it only infected 5 people in the United States so far etc. That it could be contained was exactly what he was told.

    Trump’s statement about how bad it was was matched against a Jan 28 warning that it was the most important national security threat the U,S. faced. But this was not delivered by a doctor or epidemiologist and his speaking about how bad the disease was was not a contradiction. Everybody had read about Wuhan, China.

    Now Trump later did try to spin how not too serious a lot of Covid infections were because he said not too many people died.

    Sure he knew the economy was his ticket to re-election

    Didn’t “know”. He thought so, because as James Carville said: “It’s the economy, stupid.”

    In that case, it was not actually the economy itself. It was Clinton trying to create the perception that the economy was worse than it was and that GHWB didn’t know it, based on a misunderstanding by the public about what the word “recession” properly meant.

    There;s no such thing as V or U shaped recesion. A recession is only this part: \ The other leg is the recovery. Properly, a recession only refers to the downward phase. Going back up even if you didn’t yet reach where you were before, is no longer called a recession by economists, and that’s how Bush used the word.

    As far as knowing how things work, I meant Trump doesn’t understand how politics works.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  229. Were they fascists, Montagu? Like the Texas caravan fascists you hyperventilated about?

    Like I said, beer, they’re domestic terrorists, assuming their intentions were a violent attack on vote-counters.
    “Hyperventilated” is your word, but if you’re a political opponent who is trying to infringe on my freedom to transit on public rights-of-way, then I might just call you a fascist, just like I called BLMers fascists for blocking freeways. People seem to really not believe that I believe in one standard, applied to all. I wonder why.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  230. @2-
    DCSCA is also wrong no energy producing state voted for Biden: New Mexico and California did so.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  231. I set a logical trap for myself:

    An impeachment and removal would have put Pence in charge — which might have saved the White House for the GOP. And the vast majority of “Trump critics” played no part in the impeachment at all.

    So the anti-anti-Trumpers might say: If only those “Trump critics” had tried harder to get Trump out and give us Pence, things would be rosy now.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  232. And apparently Pennsylvania too.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  233. Call me a skeptic, but I don’t believe Trump will pull this off.

    The wig is a big improvement.

    Dave (1bb933)

  234. Consider the possibility we cared about this all along, that it really is sad that 20% more Americans died this year than other years, that the mistakes with Trump and his fans were obnoxious and killed people.

    Like when Trump ordered all those elderly NY COVID patients back to their nursing homes?

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  235. A word from the now de facto leader of the GOP:

    “The President is within his rights to request recounts, to call for investigations of alleged voting irregularities where evidence exists, and to exhaust legal remedies — doing these things is consistent with our election process,” Romney said in a statement. “He is wrong to say the election was rigged, corrupt and stolen — doing so damages the cause of freedom here and around the world, weakens the institutions that lie at the foundations of the Republic, and recklessly inflames destructive and dangerous passions.”

    Thank you, sir. I hope the fever breaks, sooner than later.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  236. Call me a skeptic, but I don’t believe Trump will pull this off.

    The wig is a big improvement.

    Dave (1bb933) — 11/6/2020 @ 12:02 pm

    Yeah but the heels make him look trashy.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  237. Relax, the election’s over. You and the media don’t have to feign outrage about it anymore.
    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/6/2020 @ 11:34 am

    If Trump had given the impression that he actually cared about all the deaths and lingering illness, instead of treating it as an injustice to himself, and if he hadn’t publicly said it was all no big deal because he himself recovered with the best medical intervention in the world (after which he wanted to make a public display of revealing a Superman shirt beneath his dress shirt), and if he hadn’t publicly attacked people who have devoted their lives to public health or medical practice, it would have helped him at the polls.

    But he couldn’t do that, because he’s Donald Trump.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  238. @230 Sammy Finkelman:

    Well this is a new one. You aren’t blaming Obama but are actually blaming Hillary and the Clinton minions? It seems a bit of a stretch but considering this is a group that Trump said “I love the uneducated” I suppose it isn’t really that much of a stretch.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  239. Like I said, beer, they’re domestic terrorists

    You must be equally enraged at the domestic terrorists in places like Portland. Or this dude:

    https://dailycaller.com/2020/11/05/governor-ron-desantis-rick-scott-marco-rubio-threatened/

    Why did Biden trigger him?

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  240. You must be equally enraged at the domestic terrorists in places like Portland.

    Indeed. I’ve been boiling all summer about what happened in downtown Portland and Seattle, and is still happening in Seattle.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  241. The Republican platform for 2018 and 2020 was a blank slate. In 2020 it did say however it totally backed Donald Trump PERIOD! By nature parties must have a position on just about everything , while movements need not because they have no pretentions of governing. Hence Trumps lack of any leadership on the pandemic and middle finger agenda.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  242. 225. Hoi Polloi (66077a) — 11/6/2020 @ 11:46 am

    I wonder now that Biden is elected president anyone in the media will push back on his claim that he would have sent experts to China to study COVID, even though China would not have let them in.

    The World Health Organization did send them in but they wouldn’t let them do anything, because anything relating to the origin of the disease is a state secret in China and the fact it is a secret, is also a secret.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/02/world/who-china-coronavirus.html

    What the team members did not know was that they would not be allowed to investigate the source at all. Despite Dr. Ryan’s pronouncements, and over the advice of its emergency committee, the organization’s leadership had quietly negotiated terms that sidelined its own experts. They would not question China’s initial response or even visit the live-animal market in the city of Wuhan where the outbreak seemed to have originated. [actually a seafood market, with very few live land animal stalls]

    Nine months and more than 1.1 million deaths later, there is still no transparent, independent investigation into the source of the virus….The question of where Covid-19 began is especially intriguing because the initial theory, centered on illegal wildlife sales at the Wuhan market, is now in doubt. [It obviously came from a research facility, specifically one located about 300 yards from the scapegoat market, although it was probably not created there -SF]

    …A small W.H.O. team had traveled to Wuhan a week before but had not gone to the market or to the largest hospital for infectious diseases.

    Mr. Xi did not welcome the suggestion that China needed help. But he agreed to let a W.H.O. mission evaluate the situation “objectively, fairly, calmly and rationally.”

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/10/12/nine-days-in-wuhan-the-ground-zero-of-the-coronavirus-pandemic

    The other journalist, a print reporter I’ll call Yin, reminisced about the unusual freedom the press had been granted for a brief period in January. Journalists reported on whistle-blower figures like Li Wenliang, and they exposed some early missteps, like a failure by the Red Cross to distribute critical medical equipment. Such problems were quickly fixed, and Yin felt glad to be of service to society. “I could see what it means to be the fourth estate,” she said.

    But, in February, as the government started to get control of the pandemic, it also tightened restrictions on the press. “A friend of mine said that it was a very short spring,” Yin said.

    After that, Yin reported on a number of issues that couldn’t be published or completed, and she often talked with scientists and officials who didn’t want to say too much. “One person said, ‘Ten years later, if the climate has changed, I’ll tell you my story,’ ” Yin told me. “He knew that he would be judged by history.” She continued, “These people are inside the system, but they also know that they are inside history.”

    Yin described an interview with an employee at a research institution who was so upset that he began to weep. He wouldn’t answer her questions, but he said that he had been keeping a detailed diary. She hoped that someday such materials would be released….

    He better make sure that it is kept hidden in more than one copy by more than one person – it would be a defense for him if the regime changes.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  243. @220. Oh I agree- I don’t think they love it at all- it’s just an income stream– it’s messy and environmentally tricky to deal with, too. My grandparents didn’t love the steel industry nor the perpetual ‘brown air’ either; my uncle was a union guy who worked the shifts at J&L; from Wales originally; did the coal mining thing and even layed down many of those old cobblestone streets around town w/t streetcars — grandfather was a banker w/PNB from the 1920s on and big in Pgh city civics; lived up in Mt. Washington behind the Inclines. Worked w/t Pirates [Bob Prince, great guy– Bill Mazeroski- Clemente, Stargell, Iron City Beer days]. Folks went to the ’60 World Series- saw Maz hit that home run; I was downtown a youngster for the parade. Loved going to ball games at Forbes Field an remembering that famed scoreboard. Honus Wagner was a family friend, too- lived near my aunts. Grandpa was great pals w/Art Rooney Sr. [the old guy] even before the great Steeler teams of the 70s. My late mother would tell me tales of going to work in downtown Pgh., wearing a white blouse and coming home with it sooty and grayed just from the air. I remember seeing the glow of the mills at night and the folks would always say the glow meant jobs and homes and $. My late father got a gig w/a small oil firm associated w/t Benedums that eventually transferred us out of the area to NY then overseas but the bulk o/t family is rooted [and buried] there so I’d get back there regularly. Besides, Rolling Rock beer is the best in the world. It’s amazing that even today, most people outside of that region don’t realize they don’t make steel much there anymore. My grandmother’s driveway was ‘surfaced’ w/coke/slag– so many of the hills around town are just old slag dumps, too. Lots of small mines as well. I’m quite proud of how Pgh and Allegheny County has made a comeback to what it is today from when the steel industry collapsed. It took a generation or two. But Pitt, CMU, etc., and the medical research done there, etc., is just magnificent. The people who stayed remade it into a proud and strong city again. A lot of the guys I went to school with worked J&L shift for the summer [hard work, too] but the pay was good- $50/hr., in the mid 70s which was good $ then–paid tuition. But times were very hard there in the 80s. Bu it’s lovely place now- and affordable– you can get large house there for much less than a similar place in CA. I’m so very proud of everybody who lives and works there and go to bat for the whenever I can. That includes you.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  244. I think Trump’s speech that he made at about 6:45 pm yesterday, wasn’t all that bad, because he did not make any specific claims (therefore did not spread misinformation because it was just assertions) and some of what he said, like how well the Republican Party did in elections for Congress, was true.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  245. Did Steve Vladeck’s grandmother graduate from law school at the age of 7 or 8?

    I think maybe you need to check to see if that tweet has been corrected.

    Steve Vladeck is a law professor in his 40s, Sammy.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  246. Sammy, I said it to Kevin yesterday so I’ll say it to you, but thanks for being a Trump opponent who remains fair-minded.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  247. @232. No- get a grip; Texas, Louisiana, Okla., PA., etc., do.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  248. So… to the Trump critics. What do you think the Biden administration will do in reviewing alleged past misconduct of the Trump administration?

    Do you think they’ll take Mueller’s report, particularly the obstruction, and prosecute Trump. Would re-litigating all of that be helpful or cancerous to the state of politics?

    Another thing, what will Judge Stevens due with Flynn? Deny the government’s motion and sentence Flynn?

    Or, should we all just #MoveOn.orgTrumpEditionElectricBugaloo??

    Or, put it another way:
    How does the Joe Biden administration deal with this in a way that moves the country forward?

    whembly (c30c83)

  249. 240, Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313) — 11/6/2020 @ 12:09 pm

    Well this is a new one. You aren’t blaming Obama but are actually blaming Hillary and the Clinton minions?

    It wasn’t Bill Cliinton or James Carville who first said that presidential elections are decided based on how the ecoomy is doing, but the twist in 1992 was, that the economy wasn’t actually bad!

    It’s just that Clinton managed to make George HW Bush look out of touch. Which he was of course but not that way.

    And they spied on his campaign, by the way. They had the text of Bush commercials in advance and were able to create counter commercials that ran immediately.

    It seems a bit of a stretch but considering this is a group that Trump said “I love the uneducated” I suppose it isn’t really that much of a stretch

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  250. @232. Hey Rip- you know it snows in every state, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  251. 246. Patterico (115b1f) — 11/6/2020 @ 12:36 pm

    Steve Vladeck is a law professor in his 40s, Sammy.

    He seems to be saying that his grandmother is 81 (and therefore was born in 1938 or 1939) and that she graduated from law school in 1947.

    Now the usual age is 24, meaning she would have been born in 1923.

    Did this happen in 2004?

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  252. @246 Sammy Finkelman:

    He couldn’t make any claims because he doesn’t have any proof to make claims. His entire career as president hinged on his followers believing him through every lie and accusation. How many times have we heard him come out with some cockamamie statement beginning “I heard……”

    Now you are going to come back and tell me he was taken out of context but you believe every thing Fox news or some other hanger on says.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  253. His entire career as president hinged on his followers believing him through every lie and accusation.

    “Trump Russia Collusion”

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  254. Arne Duncan gets it almost right:
    “Trump lost this election not on policies, but on character. I pray that this is a lesson for every aspiring politician, forever.”

    My amendment: It isn’t really the aspiring politicians who need to hear the lesson. What effect would it have on the likes of Donald Trump, who holds himself to be ethically faultless? And what aspiring politician would stop and think: “Maybe my character is too shabby for this?”

    The people who need the lesson are, first, those who start throwing their weight behind a candidate early in the process, and second, all the primary voters choosing who will best represent their values in the general election.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  255. I know Patterico won’t respond to this as this is his new boss…

    But, to other CA posters, is Francisco DA George Gascon really that bad? Folks are opening talking about leaving LA.

    whembly (c30c83)

  256. @251 whembly:

    I don’t think they will do anything about the misconduct of the Trump administration they have more class than Donnie and that isn’t how things are done. They will I can almost guarantee stop any of the cockamamie restrictions Trump has put on the Justice department investigations of his accomplices and let them proceed. How the Trump crime family will personally fair with the state of New York is another story.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  257. ““Trump Russia Collusion””

    “Why doesn’t he show his birth certificate?”

    Davethulhu (097dec)

  258. He’s worse than Sen. Menendez in terms of “bad Cuban”.

    urbanleftbehind (ab2a96)

  259. @138. The ‘government’ Ol’Joe thinks he knows doesn’t exist anymore. The chums and cronies he was pals with — cut deal with– they’re dead. The hostilities and partisans gaps are wider than ever. Worse than his Obama VP days– and he has clearly lost several steps physically and mentally as a human being. Do you really think any GOPers are going to forgive or forget the Bork hell? His half-day-grandpop act, a la Reagan, Term Two, won’t work today w/these hostile divisions. And he certainly does not have a mandate, no matter how many times Nancy say he does. 70 million Americans did not support him. Expect half a term of gridlock– then a President Harris.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  260. ““Trump Russia Collusion””

    “Why doesn’t he show his birth certificate?”

    Davethulhu (097dec) — 11/6/2020 @ 1:07 pm

    “W is a Nazi!!”
    “9/11 was an inside job!!”

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  261. ““W is a Nazi!!”
    “9/11 was an inside job!!””

    And yet, somehow, both W and Obama managed to get a second term.

    Davethulhu (097dec)

  262. @260: The name of the birther special counsel escapes me. Davethulhu, help me out.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  263. “The name of the birther special counsel escapes me. Davethulhu, help me out.”

    Irrelevant. Trump didn’t lose the election because of the Trump/Russia collusion stuff.

    Davethulhu (097dec)

  264. Irrelevant. Trump didn’t lose the election because of the Trump/Russia collusion stuff.

    It’s only irrelevant because you’re countering an argument nobody made.

    The point was about lies and the gullible, and we had four years of that from Trump critics.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  265. Irrelevant. Trump didn’t lose the election because of the Trump/Russia collusion stuff.

    It’s only irrelevant because you’re countering an argument nobody made.

    The point was about lies and the gullible, and we had four years of that from Trump critics.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/6/2020 @ 1:20 pm

    Are you talking about the Crossfire Hurricane investigation that per the IG was properly predicated?
    Or are you talking about the SC that was appointed because Trump fired the head of the FBI in an effort to stop a properly predicated investigation?

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  266. @266 Now that’s a load of crap. The 95+% of negative media Trump received certainly made impact.

    The media, hollywood, education and many Democrats are well entrenched in the lefty/liberal scale of politics.

    That’s the problem these days…you can have your opinion, but if it does not toe the line of Democrat GroupThink, then you are a racist. A misogynist. An Islamophobe. A fascist. Whatever -ist.

    As Insta said: The left is again showing that it can’t stand anyone who disagrees. “Moral superiority is an addictive drug, and perhaps the most unfortunate legacy of the Civil Rights era is that it got people on the left dependent on moral superiority for their self-esteem.”

    That, more than anything, had a sizable impact to Trump’s reelection chances. And, here’s the kicker, that’s true of ANY GOP President, as they’re treated the same way.

    I think this will only embolden the wokescold crowd. Prepare for more of that BS.

    whembly (c30c83)

  267. “The point was about lies and the gullible, and we had four years of that from Trump critics.”

    Then why bring up a special counsel? You had 8 years of Trump lying about Obama’s birth certificate.

    Davethulhu (097dec)

  268. @258. Moved out of LA a decade when it became a sewer w/zip codes. Once the family affairs are settled, may leave CA proper. After nearly 30 years the quality of life has decidedly spiraled down. The climate has clearly worsened; fire, drought… the politics increasingly petty; the price of gas, water and power soaring and taxes on everything just getting to high and getting nothing in return. Of all the places I’ve lived in the world, I’ve never seen a place where a moderate breeze knocks out the electricity at least 5 times a year.

    Kevin has said some great things about NM. PA is familiar and much more affordable– a goes farther there. Friends have even said nice things about— yes, Texas. Same friends do not want to move to CA– which a generation or two ago would have seemed appealing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  269. The point was about lies and the gullible, and we had four years of that from Trump,

    FIFY.

    Trump defenders pretending to be offended by lies cannot be taken seriously.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  270. Shorter Time123: Whaddabout my conspiracy theory?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  271. @268

    Are you talking about the Crossfire Hurricane investigation that per the IG was properly predicated?

    It’s one thing for being properly predicated (which is an EXTREMELY low bar).

    It’s totally ANOTHER thing to continue such investigation where there’s no there there.

    Or are you talking about the SC that was appointed because Trump fired the head of the FBI in an effort to stop a properly predicated investigation?

    Time123 (d1bf33) — 11/6/2020 @ 1:22 pm

    Which it was wrong for Rosenstein to do so.

    POTUS can fire the head of FBI for any reason. Full stop.

    …and I noticed that you didn’t mention that even that Mueller report didn’t find any collusion.

    whembly (c30c83)

  272. “That’s the problem these days…you can have your opinion, but if it does not toe the line of Democrat GroupThink, then you are a racist. A misogynist. An Islamophobe. A fascist. Whatever -ist.”

    Don’t you guys ever get tired of crying about how unfairly you’ve been treated? It’s pathetic.

    Davethulhu (097dec)

  273. Lie down with dogs, get fleas.

    Davethulhu (097dec)

  274. Here’s a brilliant way to remove Pelosi as Speaker:

    If Gavin Newsom wants to really shake up DC, he should appoint Nancy Pelosi to replace Kamala Harris.

    I hope she accepts the “promotion”.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  275. @275 I’m done turning the cheek. Sometimes one must roll up the sleeves and get into the much and fight. The GWB way of staying above the fray is over.

    Don’t you have anything more meaningful to add beside whining about this?

    whembly (c30c83)

  276. Then why bring up a special counsel? You had 8 years of Trump lying about Obama’s birth certificate.

    There are lies, and then there are lies backed up by the threat of hard time in the pen.

    Other than that, no difference.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  277. @277 Oh no, please no.

    whembly (c30c83)

  278. @274, Correct, They didn’t find evidence of conspiring with Russia sufficient to bring charges.

    Disagree that they kept it open too long…not sure anyone has professionally weighed in on that. Seems like Meuller found a LOT of useful things in his investigation.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  279. Never trumpers the democrats don’t want you. Centerist democrats in house lost AOC and squad gain member enough to oust pelosi with republicans help. Republicans don’t want you they are now an anti-free trade populist party. Try the libertarian party they take pedophiles and nambla so they might take never trumper conservatives.

    asset (44ecac)

  280. The 95+% of negative media Trump received certainly made impact.

    The wildly disproportionate share of free, neutral media that Trump got in the primaries certainly made an impact. But in the Trumper mind, that’s totally fair.

    A great deal of the negative media concerning Trump comes directly from his own Twitter account and his public statements, unfiltered. That repelled a lot of people who recognize an ideological tilt in the MSM — but also know it’s foolish to believe Trump over anything in the MSM by default.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  281. So… to the Trump critics. What do you think the Biden administration will do in reviewing alleged past misconduct of the Trump administration?

    Do you think they’ll take Mueller’s report, particularly the obstruction, and prosecute Trump. Would re-litigating all of that be helpful or cancerous to the state of politics?

    It’s a problem given that one AG (and a Deputy AG) already claimed to find insufficient evidence to prosecute. I think Barr is a hack, and to a lesser extent Rosenstein was as well, but they were the folks entrusted with making that decision and they made it.

    However, the Michael Cohen campaign finance violations were ordered by Trump, and prosecuted as to Cohen. I know they “closed” that investigation, but perhaps that was because the only remaining target could not be indicted at that time due to department policy.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  282. Paul, at 277: he wouldn’t do that. It does nothing to benefit the Democrats in the state, and he’s not particularly close to Pelosi.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  283. Whembly — he did a shitty job in SF. I would expect him to do a shitty job in LA.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  284. I think there’s a good chance that Trump will give himself a blanket pardon before leaving office.

    Davethulhu (097dec)

  285. Are you talking about the Crossfire Hurricane investigation that per the IG was properly predicated?

    Predication for FBI investigations tend to be a low bar. Conducting a proper investigation is a much higher bar, one that CH failed to achieve in several different ways and occasions.

    But even with their incompetence, they found nothing on Trump colluding with Russia.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  286. POTUS can fire the head of FBI for any reason. Full stop.

    Except for reasons of corrupt intent, which was established in the Mueller report.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  287. I’m more interested in what Biden will do with the Durham probe, any investigation into his son, and any investigation into vote fraud.

    And, after he kills them all how many here will care?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  288. …and I noticed that you didn’t mention that even that Mueller report didn’t find any collusion.

    Yeah, he did, but not enough to prosecute. This was only further affirmed by the SIC report.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  289. Well, if early voting & mail-in ballots were firmly limited to 7 days out from Election Day proper, no acceptance afterward and polls uniformly opened and closed from 7 AM to 7 PM across nation, no exceptions, would Trump have beaten Biden? It’s a voters civic responsibility to vote– or not vote on Election Day. ‘Convenience’ isn’t a metric.

    When did ‘early voting’ begin— late September, early October?

    This isn’t right. It essentially voids the value of any debates over issues of a time, vigorous media scrutiny, lengthy, costly campaigns and the Election Day itself. It’s a bad trend that’s becoming a norm. Election Day is election day– not ‘Election Month’ or ‘Election Season.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  290. I’m more interested in what Biden will do with the Durham probe, any investigation into his son,

    And Xi smiles…

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  291. @258 I don’t know any of the SF prosecutors, but I do know a couple from other places around the bay area. They don’t love him but don’t seem inclined to run screaming from the room if he comes in either. Mostly in the “not good, could be worse” kind of range.

    Nic (896fdf)

  292. @284 But, that really doesn’t square away how Manafort was prosecuted. The Obama DOJ actually looked into Manafort and didn’t really think it was worth it.

    It was only after Trump won that he became “worth it”.

    So, unless I’m missing something couldn’t a future AG decide to prosecute? Since it was never adjudicated in court (ala Manafort’s).

    Or, are you referring to some prosecutorial norms here?

    whembly (c30c83)

  293. @286

    I think there’s a good chance that Trump will give himself a blanket pardon before leaving office.

    Davethulhu (097dec) — 11/6/2020 @ 1:45 pm

    The big question would be – is that kosher?

    Furthermore, I wonder if Trump could issue a blanket pardon to everyone in his administration.

    Seems legally kosher, but who knows.

    whembly (c30c83)

  294. The big question would be – is that kosher?

    Furthermore, I wonder if Trump could issue a blanket pardon to everyone in his administration.

    Seems legally kosher, but who knows.
    whembly (c30c83) — 11/6/2020 @ 1:57 pm

    Even as he careens into full-on dotage, I don’t think Biden is stupid enough to pursue charges against Trump or anyone in his administration.

    He will be too busy fixing COVID and the economy, or so we are told…

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  295. @288

    POTUS can fire the head of FBI for any reason. Full stop.

    Except for reasons of corrupt intent, which was established in the Mueller report.

    Paul Montagu (77c694) — 11/6/2020 @ 1:47 pm

    No. It wasn’t established. You cannot ignore mix motives and find a possible corrupt one and assume that the corrupt motive was the ONLY reason.

    Outside of true felonies, like bribery/extortion kinds of things, POTUS has near plenary power to fire any agency heads.

    whembly (c30c83)

  296. @290 No the Mueller report did NOT say there was prosecutable collusion.

    whembly (c30c83)

  297. Kevin,

    I just started digesting this thread, but your comment at 36 was profound, and written so well that it could appear in The Atlantic or National Review. Thanks, man!

    norcal (a5428a)

  298. It was only after Trump won that he became “worth it”.

    No, the “black ledger” was found mid-summer 2016, which revealed that he was taking millions under the table from a pro-Russian Ukrainian political party, and there was the discovery that he shared internal polling data with a Russian spy. There was enough evidence to convict him on defrauding the US government, but insufficient evidence of his colluding with Kilimnik.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  299. No. It wasn’t established. You cannot ignore mix motives and find a possible corrupt one and assume that the corrupt motive was the ONLY reason.

    Since Pelosi passed on impeaching Trump’s for his ten incidences of obstruction, I’ll be happy to let a jury decide.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  300. @301

    No. It wasn’t established. You cannot ignore mix motives and find a possible corrupt one and assume that the corrupt motive was the ONLY reason.

    Since Pelosi passed on impeaching Trump’s for his ten incidences of obstruction, I’ll be happy to let a jury decide.

    Paul Montagu (77c694) — 11/6/2020 @ 2:08 pm

    Any rationale spearheading by Andrew F’n Weissman should give everyone a pause.

    Many legal eagles also opined that the rationale for obstruction were novel. I’m sure the courts would take a dim view of that.

    whembly (c30c83)

  301. @301 Notice what was missing in the plea bargain’s statement of facts?
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Manafort_statement_of_offense.pdf
    The “black ledger” and the “sharing of the polling data”.

    whembly (c30c83)

  302. The point, whembly, is that Manafort’s corruption wasn’t resuscitated from an old Obama-era investigation. There were all kinds of new corruption that he committed and was convicted for.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  303. @304 No Paul, my point was that it *was* resuscitated from old Obama-era investigations.

    whembly (c30c83)

  304. @305 if you look at Manafort’s statement of facts, those were done prior to the 2016 campaign.

    The Special Counsel’s goal was to squeeze Manafort for any Trump stuff and then fob off the case to the SDNY for prosecution.

    whembly (c30c83)

  305. You’d think by now people would have figured this guy out. He’s not going to ‘concede’ like you know a ‘concession’ be.

    He’s a showman.

    And even in defeat he’s going to make his inevitable exit a noisy, grand finale. And he has a cast of supporting players [Cruz, Graham, etc.,] to make it as spectacularly flamboyant-and memorable- for the cameras as he can.

    His exit will upstage his successor’s entrance.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  306. The Special Counsel’s goal was to squeeze Manafort for any Trump stuff and then fob off the case to the SDNY for prosecution.

    So what. When you take millions under the table and consort with spies, maybe, just maybe, there could be repercussions, and he was guilty as sin of that and lots more. He was lucky the jury deadlocked.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  307. I hope Trump does what DCSCA suggests: Make it a show, lie about election fraud, engage in endless lawfare, never concede. These are the only things he can do that will make the GOP consider how to keep him off the ballot in the future. They might even cause the GOP to encourage state or federal tax claims/charges, which to me is where Trump has serious legal exposure.

    DRJ (aede82)

  308. There are no missing military ballots in Georgia, President Trump:

    According to Gabriel Sterling, the Voting System Implementation Manager for the Georgia secretary of state, roughly 18,000 military ballots had already been sent in and counted as of Friday afternoon. Under Georgia law, the remaining 8,410 military and overseas ballots which were issued can still be counted if they arrive by close of business today and were postmarked by Election Day.

    “That does not mean that there’s a bucket of 8,410 votes to be counted,” Sterling said. “It’s going to be more than 0 and less than 8,410.”

    Not yet received or counted does not mean that they are “missing” and all that that implies.

    Dana (6995e0)

  309. @307. Bush 41?? ‘Voodoo Economics.’ He was right frommy POV — and my late Dad indicated some contact through ‘oil dealing’- in that era which the family believes was less ‘oil’ and more something else- if you recall that Libyan tale. We never could get the full story but Dad only would say, ‘I know him.’ You know how ubiquitous and murky that biz can be.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  310. Geesh:

    Those across the nation eager for a winner to be declared in Pennsylvania might have to wait a little longer because of a flood of provisional ballots, most of which are only now being counted in a process that takes a lot more time than tallying in-person or mail votes.

    As of Friday morning, 56 of the state’s 67 counties reported about 85,000 provisional ballots cast based on only a partial count, a Pennsylvania Department of State spokesperson said. House Speaker Bryan Cutler told reporters Friday he’s told the number could top 100,000.

    Dana (6995e0)

  311. @309 “So what”? That was my point. It’s using lawfare due to politics.

    IF one administration doesn’t prosecute for alleged crimes because they didn’t think it was worth it, but the only thing that changed was that the target was newly associated with a despised political figure and THEN it becomes “worth it” so that the political figure gets conveniently smeared. That’s literally criminalization of politics.

    If you don’t see how cancerous that is…we have nothing further to discuss.

    whembly (c30c83)

  312. @310. He’s not going to ‘run again.’

    He’s going to make as much media noise and $$ from same as he can— and then, given his size, bulk and diet, drop dead one afternoon, just like Tim Russert.

    How else can, or does, the ‘movie’ end?!?!!!!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  313. If you like your virus, you can keep your virus:

    Counties with worst virus surges overwhelmingly voted Trump

    U.S. voters went to the polls starkly divided on how they see President Donald Trump’s response to the coronavirus pandemic. But in places where the virus is most rampant now, Trump enjoyed enormous support.

    An Associated Press analysis reveals that in 376 counties with the highest number of new cases per capita, the overwhelming majority — 93% of those counties — went for Trump, a rate above other less severely hit areas.

    Most were rural counties in Montana, the Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa and Wisconsin — the kinds of areas that often have lower rates of adherence to social distancing, mask-wearing and other public health measures, and have been a focal point for much of the latest surge in cases.

    Death cultists gonna death cult.

    Dave (1bb933)

  314. Here’s a good rundown from French of the electoral fraud allegations, and they’re as weighty as helium.
    P.S. The virus is still not going away, even though the election is in the past. The day isn’t over, but this is the 4th in a row where more than 1,100 Americans died, and we had over 120,000 new cases today. Too bad we can’t just call a lid on it.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  315. BREAKING/EXCLUSIVE – MUST CREDIT PATTERICO.COM:
    TRUMP 2024 PRESIDENTIAL RUN CONFIRMED

    @310. He’s not going to ‘run again.’

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/6/2020 @ 3:37 pm

    Always trust the opposite of content from Deezy-eska.

    Dave (1bb933)

  316. @319. Okay Davey, he’ll run again– just to give you fresh skid marks.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  317. If you don’t see how cancerous that is…we have nothing further to discuss.

    I don’t know why the Obama DOJ wasn’t more diligent, but let’s not pretend he wasn’t guilty as sin, and he put himself in the crosshairs in a properly predicated counterintelligence investigation. Manafort got the justice he deserved.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  318. @317. “Death cultists gonna death cult.”

    You voted for him, Davey: Ol’Joe Biden turns 78 years old in just 14 days.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  319. @321 It wasn’t about justice. It was about smearing a disfavored politician.

    whembly (c30c83)

  320. Pottery Barn rules, Biden Backers: you own it: ‘you break it; you bought it.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  321. How do you say “C’mon, man!” in Mandarin?

    Hoi Polloi (66077a) — 11/6/2020 @ 11:46 am

    It doesn’t translate literally. The closest approximation is kai wan xiao, which means “You’ve got to be kidding!”

    norcal (a5428a)

  322. 70 million Americans did not vote for Biden. And the count isn’t complete… so tonight, he is going to address the nation from a Wilmington parking lot— and there’s going to be fireworks??

    ‘Fireworks’ before the final count is in is less a unity move and more just rubbing those 70 million voters noses in the poop.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  323. It is what it is. I take no responsibility.

    nk (1d9030)

  324. Dave, at 318, I saw that yesterday.

    At first I was baffled — surely a spike in cases and the corresponding (delayed) spike in deaths would make a place more anti-Trump than average, right? Because it would reify how bad a job the administration has done.

    But there’s a theory which makes sense — the high infection rate and the support are correlated because it’s a community of people who didn’t take the virus seriously and who likely believe that it’s an exaggerated myth promulgated by people who want to hurt the President.

    Sad.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  325. Trump is toast. The only remaining question is butter or margarine?

    (Easy choice, right? Not so fast. A friend recently told me that he has been eating margarine his whole life, and that butter tastes funny to him! Poor bastard.)

    norcal (a5428a)

  326. i can promise you one thing

    mr roy cohn would have never let things reach this point

    Dave (1bb933)

  327. Furthermore, I wonder if Trump could issue a blanket pardon to everyone in his administration.

    Why? Assuming he cannot pardon himself (9-0 US v Trump (2022)) he would be doing two things, both of which harm him alone:

    1. He would be left standing alone to answer for his administration.
    2. He would be immunizing all witnesses against him and depriving them of their 5th Amendment options.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  328. Except for reasons of corrupt intent, which was established in the Mueller report.

    Pretty sure the FBI director was still “fired.” Maybe he has a claim, but he’s still on the beach.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  329. If Gavin Newsom wants to really shake up DC, he should appoint Nancy Pelosi to replace Kamala Harris.

    I’d bet money he’ll appoint Loretta Sanchez.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  330. Trump may TRY to pardon himself. It would be pretty much par for the course. So many times there was the right way and the wrong way to do something, and he chose Trump’s way that was so confused no one had thought of it before. Stable genius!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  331. 334, true, no domino effect of special elections and placates that community without going with a straight up Raza type or economic illiterate.

    urbanleftbehind (b83b4e)

  332. Or Trump may resign, and VP Pence becomes President for the remainder of Trump’s term until 1-20-21, and then issues the pardon. I don’t know if a President can pardon himself or not. That would also be par for the course as well. If Trump pardoned himself, it would probably end up being litigated in court, since no President ever tried that before. Just my guess. At this point, he only has 74 days left in office, and people will just mark time until he goes.

    HCI (92ea66)

  333. Latest AZ ballot update shows Trump gaining, but probably not enough to catch up:

    Dave (1bb933) — 11/6/2020 @ 8:22 am

    Yup. You were right. 306 it is.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  334. I meant to say this earlier but I like the Trump/Romney/Covid quote in the post. IMO that was perfect.

    DRJ (aede82)

  335. My views summed up perfectly (by somebody I never heard of):

    “I wish the @AP would call Pennsylvania. The destroying of the suburbs is going to take a long time and the sooner we get started on it the better.”

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  336. Dole was the real problem in 96.
    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/6/2020 @ 8:40 am

    Dole gets a bad rap. He was a war hero, a sensible conservative, and he had the funniest, driest sense of humor of any POTUS candidate in my lifetime. I even forgive him supporting Trump. (I give pretty much everyone over 90 a pass for their screwy opinions. Thanksgiving dinners would be a bore without them.)

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  337. @342. No. Just no. Hatchet man Dole?? The fella wh talks about himself in the third person all the time? The blue pill guy? Did you sleep through the 1970s? Check the IOUs in the SS ‘lockbox’ during that era — most have his name on them. He’s the jackass who gave Nixon’s eulogy. Have you ever Norm MacDonald do Dole?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzMahrucH04

    You know what he said at the moment of his birth and to his first wife when he divorced her to chase down Elizabeth?

    “Bob Dole wants out.”

    Genuinely despised three U.S. senators in my lifetime. One is Joe Biden; the other: Bob Dole.

    “Stop lying about my record!” – Bob Dole

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  338. 344. So you’re beef with Dole is that he’s a bad person, yet you l♥♥♥♥♥♥ve Trump.

    You realize that’s incoherent, right?

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  339. You realize that’s incoherent, right?

    Let’s just say logic isn’t his specialty.

    The only thing consistent about Deezy-eska is his uncanny knack for being wrong.

    Dave (1bb933)

  340. The only thing consistent about Deezy-eska is his uncanny knack for being wrong.

    I’d gladly pile on (Wait, you mean the single-issue-fossil-fuel-voters aren’t going to pull Pennsylvania out for Trump? Say it ain’t so!), but I just noticed I said “So you’re beef with Dole is…” so maybe I’ll just stfu.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  341. @347 🙂 I love self-deprecating humor.

    norcal (a5428a)

  342. 348.

    self-deprecating humor

    Mrs. Lurker tells me I’m a bottomless well of material.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  343. Those PA voters were the least resistant, at least among swing state flips, to actually switching their vote.

    https://sports.yahoo.com/the-crucial-trump-voting-bloc-that-drifted-to-biden-173317534.html

    I wager that of all those 6 states, PA has the most Italian Americans, who are probably among Trump’s core constituencies.

    urbanleftbehind (084984)

  344. @345. You realize you can’t read very well, right?

    @348. Mrs. Lurker tells me I’m a bottomless well of material.

    And she knows exactly what part of your anatomy that is. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  345. 255. Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313) — 11/6/2020 @ 12:53 pm

    He couldn’t make any claims because he doesn’t have any proof to make claims.

    The point is, he didn’t make any fake ones either.

    His entire career as president hinged on his followers believing him through every lie and accusation. How many times have we heard him come out with some cockamamie statement beginning “I heard……”

    A lot of people whovoted for him weren;t paying any attention to that.

    Now you are going to come back and tell me he was taken out of context but you believe every thing Fox news or some other hanger on says.

    He was taken out of context with that Woodward claim because what he had been told on Jan 28 was something like it was the most serious problem, and I think what he was saying to Woodward was that the disease was maybe more serious that he (Woodward) maybe understood, The seriousness of the disease was why he had cut off travel from China – in order to prevent it from becoming a problem in the United States.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  346. Kevin M, do you have any thoughts on the theory that Trump is going to pull an Andrew Jackson or Grover Cleveland and spend the next four years campaigning for re-election on a combination of “we was robbed” and reacting by attacking everything Biden does and bragging about how he could do better?

    aphrael (4c4719)

  347. 316. DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/6/2020 @ 3:37 pm

    How else can, or does, the ‘movie’ end?!?!!!!

    The movie is about the virus, not Donald Trump.

    “The Uncommon Cold” (Imaginary, 1989)

    In the year 2020, nations of the world go crazy over a not too serious infection. Travel restrictions aplenty, and everything gradually shuts down. The president of the United States is Donald Trump. Not the Andromeda Strain. ** 1/2. (Dir. James Cameron.)

    The movie ends with the virus fading away in the United States as Wednesday, January 20 approaches, and the antibody treatment finishing it off, upending all of Joe Biden’s plans to fight the virus.

    The vaccine is finally ready to go, but seems to be to be left with no U.S. based disease to prevent. People don’t have much interest, despite being warned it might come back because there is not yet enough herd immunity.

    We see both Donald Trump and Joe Biden taking credit for ending the epidemic, Joe Biden for persuading more Governors to strengthen nonpharmaceutical interventions, and Donald Trump for Operation Warp Speed.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)


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