Patterico's Pontifications

11/2/2020

Trump Suggests to Rallygoers He Will Fire Fauci After the Election

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:26 am



The prospect of this man unbounded by the reality of facing of another election is terrifying.

He follows up the suggestion by saying Fauci has been wrong about a lot of things, like wearing masks early on. Trump firing Fauci for initially suggesting Americans need not wear masks would be like Trump firing James Comey for having treated Hillary Clinton unfairly. It does not quite pass the smell test, does it? Keep in mind that, as Dana recently noted, Trump continues to characterize mask-wearing as “politically correct” — and we all know what he and his followers think of political correctness.

That kind of attitude kills people.

Speaking of which . . .

Meanwhile, a Stanford study estimates that Trump’s recent rallies may have killed 700 people:

A group of Stanford University economists who created a statistical model estimate that there have been at least 30,000 coronavirus infections and 700 deaths as a result of 18 campaign rallies President Trump held from June to September.

The numbers, which will surely reignite accusations from Democratic leaders and public health officials that the president is putting voters at risk for political gain, are not based on individual cases traced directly to particular campaign events.

Instead, the Stanford researchers, led by Professor B. Douglas Bernheim, the chairman of the university’s economics department, conducted a regression analysis. They compared the 18 counties where Mr. Trump held rallies with as many as 200 counties with similar demographics and similar trajectories of confirmed Covid-19 cases before the rally date.

Trump’s path to victory is very narrow. He cannot afford to kill more of his supporters.

I filled out my ballot for Joe Biden yesterday. We’ll walk them to a dropoff point today or tomorrow. I had opportunities to research the Republicans running for state and federal offices. My criterion: have they said they support Donald Trump? Both had.

Neither got my vote. I left those races blank.

132 Responses to “Trump Suggests to Rallygoers He Will Fire Fauci After the Election”

  1. I wonder if it was the same group of Stanford economists who told us the mass BLM rallies, looting and rioting actually reduced covid deaths. Gonna go out on a limb and guess Professor Bernheim voted for Biden.

    So glad we’re doubting Bid Media narratives while swallowing academic narratives whole.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  2. And make sure you drop that ballot off in an official box, not the Republican Party kind. I mourn for my party.
    Trump is making the choice easy, between a person who takes the virus seriously and a literal public health menace.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  3. why believe anyone who might know what theyre talking about when you can believe a stable genius like mr president donald instead

    its obvious to anyone willing to do the analysis

    Dave (1bb933)

  4. The most important principle of the Trump movement is the public glory of their Tribe.
    Fauci has failed to glorify Trump.
    Furthermore he’s embarrassed Trump and his supporters by contradicting things Trump has said.

    So he’s guilty of causing Trump and his tribe to be disrespected in public. For a group of people desperate for respect this is completely unacceptable.

    Time123 (36651d)

  5. Trump’s path to victory is very narrow. He cannot afford to kill more of his supporters.

    Then why does he keep leaving them stranded in the cold?

    Time123 (6e0727)

  6. If you believe firing Fauci is a winning closing argument, then get a load of this.

    Trump is widely rumored to be interested in having the bombastic FoxNews personality Jeanine Pirro take a significant role in the Justice Department — perhaps even to head it as Attorney General.

    The message is clear: Expertise moves to the backseat while the TV personalities ride shotgun, which makes sense for this TV personality president.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  7. Jeanine Pirro has been great at publicly saying how great Trump is and agreeing with him. That’s the only qualification. Barr made Trump look weak and stupid by not prosecuting Trump’s political enemies.

    Time123 (36651d)

  8. Yeah, let’s bring back rule by experts. God help us.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  9. Heh! Given Trump’s record of actually doing what he says he’s going to do, Fauci should not start packing just yet.

    nk (1d9030)

  10. Yeah, let’s bring back rule by experts. God help us.

    Because rule by a sociopathic imbecile is going so well!

    Dave (1bb933)

  11. Yeah, let’s bring back rule by experts. God help us.

    Let’s see. There’s Russia Today and FoxNews guest, Scott Atlas, who is not an epidemiologist and peddles herd immunity pseudo-science versus Dr. Fauci, one of the foremost epidemiologists around. Yeah, fire Fauci and stick with Atlas’ junk science.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  12. I filled out my ballot for Joe Biden yesterday.

    Got to say I’m surprised. But happy.

    Kyle (a00aa2)

  13. Even Erdogan openly mocks Trump’s threats: https://www.lmtonline.com/news/article/Turkish-president-dares-U-S-to-impose-economic-15673968.php

    “Whatever your sanctions are, don’t be late,” Erdogan said, referring to U.S. warnings for Turkey not to get directly involved in the conflict over Nagorno-Karabakh, where Ankara supports Azerbaijan against ethnic Armenian forces.

    The whole world views Trump as a toothless tabby except his fanbois over here.

    nk (1d9030)

  14. @8 I bet when you have a plumbing problem you don’t hire a roofer to fix it, you hire a plumber.

    Nic (896fdf)

  15. So does Kim Kardashian lose her Oval Office pass. And I’d probably go 0 for 3 on Turk, Azeri or Armo if I was to go hunting like the yoots did in Paris this past weekend.

    urbanleftbehind (e75fe7)

  16. A vote to suppress terror while Biden/Harris supporters are rioting, looting, burning……
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  17. A vote to suppress terror while Biden/Harris supporters are rioting, looting, burning……

    and a Fifth Avenue draft dodger almost certainly in Putin’s pocket fans the flames.

    nk (1d9030)

  18. I bet when you have a plumbing problem you don’t hire a roofer to fix it, you hire a plumber.

    You’re right!

    I’ll bet when you have a plumbing problem you don’t let a government expert tell you who you should hire.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  19. Brandy X Lee MD
    @BrandyXLee1

    Donald Trump is not an Adolf Hitler. At least Hitler improved the daily life of his followers, had discipline and required more of himself to gain the respect of his followers. Even with the same pathology, there are varying degrees of competence.
    _

    The ‘Mental Health Expert’ at CNN and MSNBC.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  20. I’m sure the models the Stanford study used will be debated ad nauseum, but even aside from his Nuremberg-esque rallies, I think that there can be no doubt that this Trumpian insouciance toward the virus has set a standard among his admirers that has cost many lives.

    Roger (83ed7d)

  21. One more day, and we’ll lance that orange boil on Uncle Sam’s behind, compatriots. Just one more day.

    nk (1d9030)

  22. The message is clear: Expertise moves to the backseat while the TV personalities ride shotgun, which makes sense for this TV personality president.

    When I first started in my present job, I’d sometimes put together in my mind my own dream Cabinet. You know, John Wayne as Secretary of State; Clint Eastwood at Defense; Jack Benny as Secretary of Treasury; Groucho Marx at Education.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  23. ^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYeNuISN4Dc

    Ronald Reagan,12/8/85.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  24. This is the Marxist propaganda you voted for:

    https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/1322963321994289154

    I voted third party in 2016. What do we get with Biden? I don’t see a man that is capable to hold the office. In a Biden Administration who will actually be running things? Harris? Who ever ends up being his Chief of Staff? I don’t think you know who you just voted for. Do you have no concerns Biden is compromised by China?

    Do you want to go back to the policies that set the Middle East a blaze? Or the economic plan Stanford rated a disaster? Are you OK with court packing? How does that play out in the long run? What happens to the investigation into the Crossfire Hurricane under Biden? I’m guessing it all gets squashed. All the shenanigans get white washed and the politicizing of the FBI goes into full swing, again.

    I understand hating Trump and not wanting four more years of Trump. The likeliness of the Dems controlling the White House, House & Senate scares me a lot more than 4 more years of Trump. I early voted on Thursday for Trump.

    Mattsky (55d339)

  25. I already figured out a week ago, he would fire Fauci, if re-elected. And he’s done things immediately after an election before, like with Attorney General Jeff Sessions in 2018. (much faster than Sessions expected. His firing of Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland (who only wanted to resign more deliberately) also came as soon as the impeachment was decided. Sondland had had nothing to do with policy toward Ukraine for months and he knew he was just hanging on.

    If not re-elected, it’s maybe 50-50. It maybe depends on whether he thinks Fauci is sabotaging him.

    If the election outcome is still undetermined, he won’t fire him, so long as that holds true.

    He shouldn’t fire him, but it doesn’t sound like he has the wisdom not to. True enough, Fauci has surrendered to the virus the same way he surrendered to the AIDS virus over a third of a century ago (he eventually came around a bit)

    But where Fauci disagrees with him, he is in no better position to undermine him inside the government than he would be outside the government.

    On the other hand, should Fauci endorse something of his, like a vaccine or a therapeutic, it will give it added credibility. There might be some things he does about the virus that Fauci endorses.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  26. ‘I filled out my ballot for Joe Biden yesterday.’

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  27. Cut to the chase: after 47 years in government, what the hell has Biden ever done for me [or you]?

    Nothing.

    At least Trump sent me a check.

    [ X ] Trump/Pence

    [ ] Biden/Harris

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. @18 You’d be wrong. What do you think licensing is about? I’m not hiring some hedgerow fly-by-night plumber, I want a licensed one.

    Nic (896fdf)

  29. NYTimes: In Hunt for Virus Source, W.H.O. Let China Take Charge

    As it praised Beijing, the World Health Organization concealed concessions to China and may have sacrificed the best chance to unravel the virus’s origins. Now it’s a favorite Trump attack line.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/02/world/who-china-coronavirus.html#click=https://t.co/r6xgFwsivQ
    __ _

    Trump will attack anything, even news of complete incompetence by the WHO regarding Chinese Govt crimes against humanity.

    In a year or two when people really start waking up to the Biden/Harris nightmare, someone will bring up how China/WHO collusion of dishonesty was a major culprit ignored by the msm and someone from the Times will say:

    ‘Not true, we reported on it even before the election’.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  30. In a year or two when people really start waking up to the Biden/Harris nightmare

    If it goes that way, more likely the Harris nightmare. Lest you forget, ol’plagiarist JoeyBee turns 78 years old in just 18 days.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  31. You’d be wrong. What do you think licensing is about? I’m not hiring some hedgerow fly-by-night plumber, I want a licensed one.

    You probably want a union member too.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  32. 11. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 11/2/2020 @ 9:25 am

    Yeah, fire Fauci and stick with Atlas’ junk science.

    He’s not sticking only with Atlas. He’s promoting many competing treatments and vaccines. And it’s not like Fauci is in favor of a European style lockdown for the next seven months. He favors limits, too.

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/521680-fauci-covid-19-outbreaks-would-have-to-get

    Speaking to “60 Minutes,” Fauci says outbreaks would have to “get really, really bad” before he would advocate for a national lockdown.

    “First of all, the country is fatigued with restrictions. So we wanna use public health measures not to get in the way of opening the economy, but to being a safe gateway to opening the economy,” Fauci said. “So instead of having an opposition, open up the economy, get jobs back, or shut down. No. Put ‘shut down’ away and say, ‘We’re gonna use public health measures to help us safely get to where we want to go.’”

    But Fauci thinks there can be no objection to masks.

    Instead, Fauci says, the emphasis remains on practicing now-familiar public health measures like wearing masks, physically distancing and washing hands frequently — key steps in controlling virus transmission.

    Why are they still talking about washing hands??

    By this kind of logic we should not use cash, or paper money (and I read an article in the Wall Street Journal sometime ago where someone wrote he finally threw away $15) but they don’t advocate it because that would harm unbanked people. What they don’t say is that the risk is worth it, but they say it is safe. As in reality, it probably is, but so are a lot of other things.
    t say

    The cost, in his mind, is zero; the benefit, unknown, but could be substantial.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  33. Denial is not a river in Egypt. It’s a pathology. Downplaying a pandemic, politicizing and mocking mask wearing, disregarding crowd sizes and social distancing at rallies in defiance of state mandates is not a a winning strategy. It’s a political suicide plan. So I’m not surprised by the Stanford statistical analysis and estimation of the number of infections and deaths resulting from attending these Trump rallies. In fact, I think it’s probably higher.

    I continue to believe the whole Walter Reed visit was staged. Trump might have tested positive once, as he gets tested daily, but it could have been a false positive. The number of positive tests that came out of the Rose Garden ceremony to announce the nomination of Barrett, and the spread of the virus through the White House staff, suggests he may have been infected. I just don’t believe a trip to the hospital, oxygen treatment, experimental and unapproved drugs and anti-virals cured him in three days. Chris Cuomo tested positive, and he quarantined himself in his basement for two weeks, so as not to infect his family, and filmed his CNN show from there. The standard quarantine is supposed to be for 40 days, by the way.

    Cuomo experienced mild symptoms, as do most people, and quickly recovered. The point is he didn’t require hospitalization, oxygen treatment and experimental drugs. He also didn’t return to the CNN studio until he tested negative, because he didn’t want to infect anyone else.

    So, yeah, I believe the Walter Reed visit was staged. It was Trump’s way of showing his cult fans that Covid-19 is no big deal. Photos of him at the hospital, signing blank sheets of paper as if he were presidential–he wasn’t working, he was pretending–then him triumphantly returning to the White House so he could rip off his mask and give a salute was so lame. It was obviously faked to support his narrative and to lure his fanatical supporters to large gatherings, without masks and social distancing. And now he’s threatening to fire Dr. Fauci?

    It’s all so transparent. Television executives would call it a poorly produced scene on Reality TV.

    Anyway, so Patterico, you voted for Biden and left the votes for state and federal Republicans blank, because they support Trump and you couldn’t vote for their Democratic opponents. I understand that, but in those instances I would have voted for the Libertarian candidate, if one was on the ballot. That’s what I intend to do when I go to the polls tomorrow. After thinking about it for a long while, I will vote for Biden, even though I really do not like him, his running mate or their policy propositions. But a vote for Jorgensen would not be a repudiation of Trump, and she has no chance of winning.

    The GOP must be expunged of Trump. If that means giving the Democrats power for a few years, so be it. I will be voting Democratic where I must and Libertarian where I can.

    There will be a reckoning. The Republicans have to come to their senses and admit that nominating and electing Trump was a mistake. They must reform the party and get back to original principles, or they’ll be out of power for a long time. I won’t be voting for any Republican until Trumpism has been totally excoriated from the party.

    This will be the first time in my life, since I was first eligible to vote in 1980, that I will be voting Democratic at the top of the ticket. That’s what Trump has done to the party. He has eviscerated it of conservative libertarians and any Christian who knows what Christianity really is.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  34. @31. A real conservative American would grab a musket,go full Crockett and Boone and do it themselves. 😉

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMfTo8VXgCs

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  35. 30. DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/2/2020 @ 11:10 am

    Lest you forget, ol’plagiarist JoeyBee turns 78 years old in just 18 days.

    Trump says he could die of the virus. He bases that on the idea that his system is not as good as his, but it wold be because he refused to take, or was not interested in taking, the Regeneron antibody cure that Donald Trump did (plus the zinc and the Vitamin D and whatnot. He’s maybe take only the weak tea of remdisivir.)

    If Biden did take it, or was given it at the insistence of people who cared for him, he’d have a hard time arguing for not making it available for emergency use for regular people.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  36. Trump continues to characterize mask-wearing as “politically correct” — and we all know what he and his followers think of political correctness.

    Lately I’ve been glad I live in a PC place, because nobody complains about wearing masks. People voluntarily distance themselves. People make a point of getting taking takeout from the restaurants and cafes that are struggling. There’s a bit more “We need to help each other” than “Don’t tread on me” (though I did, curiously, see a Gadsden flag a few years ago hanging from an upstairs window of a house that’s painted the color apricot sorbet).

    Trump’s attitude after his own visitation from Covid has been: “I got through it okay, so it’s really not a problem at all.” He has pretty much said it openly. That’s just one illustration of his unabashedly self-centered approach to making decision.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  37. A line got misplaced @32.

    The cost, in his mind, is zero; the benefit, unknown, but could be substantial.

    refers to Dr. Anthony Fauci’s opinion of wearing masks.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  38. That’s what Trump has done to the party. He has eviscerated it of conservative libertarians and any Christian who knows what Christianity really is.

    Also, as I commented on the previous post (and should have waited for today’s post instead), even if he gets some policy right, he makes it appear to arise from the kind of callous selfishness and casual bigotry that he freely displays. He has made the whole conservative/GOP brand ugly.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  39. @31 You want to hire an unlicensed plumber to fix your gas line for your new stove, that’s on you, but don’t expect me to feel sorry for you when your house blows up.

    Nic (896fdf)

  40. If it goes that way, more likely the Harris nightmare. Lest you forget, ol’plagiarist JoeyBee turns 78 years old in just 18 days.
    __

    It will be very interesting to see what the Woke brigades will come up with after the example set just since George Floyd and the way they’re really starting to dig in like ticks in the Big Tech and media worlds. They have spent the past year convincing people that the insane are actually the sane. People want to be done with 2020 but what if we look back at it as the good old days?

    After tearing down Washington and Lincoln, disposing of Joe Biden cant be a very daunting a prospect.

    Discarding the Constitution will be a slower process.
    _

    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  41. Trump got through it OK, but only because of the Regeneron made antibodies!

    And he knows that, but is too much of coward to oppose the scientific establishment, who would insist that we don’t really know that. Besides, it could let him pretend he’s Superman.

    If we don’t know that, we certainly don’t know anything about masks preventing spread.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  42. Now death is not the only bad outcome of this disease. Thus is something being ignored by Trump.

    There are long haulers, who have some disruptions in their body’s homeostatis. It is something like a hiccup only with body chemistry.

    i.e. It is similar to chronic fatigue syndrome or the aftereffects if Lyme Disease.

    I think it might be helped by changes in diet and taking just the right vitamins. Which ones would require investigation. Muscle tissue is broken down by the body in its search for vitamins.

    There is also the loss of the sense of smell, sometimes recovered.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  43. 22. DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/2/2020 @ 10:45 am

    When I first started in my present job, I’d sometimes put together in my mind my own dream Cabinet. You know, John Wayne as Secretary of State; Clint Eastwood at Defense; Jack Benny as Secretary of Treasury; Groucho Marx at Education.

    hey couldn’t have all been alive at the time; Jack Benny died on December 26, 1974,
    Groucho Marx on August 19, 1977, and John Wayne on June 11, 1979, while the Department of Education was created as a separate Cabinet Department (spun off from HEW) on October 17, 1979, and the first cabinet member, Shirley Hufstedler, took office on November 30, 1979. Jimmy Carter persuaded her to resign from the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in order to take that job.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  44. This Place Has Picked Every President Since 1952. Is Its Streak About to End?
    You know what they say: “As Valencia County goes, so goes the nation.”

    What? You’ve never heard that? You’ve never even heard of Valencia County?

    Well, I suppose that’s not altogether surprising. Tucked into the sublime, mountain-ringed deserts south of Albuquerque, Valencia County has a population of 76,688 people. It’s the sixth-most populous county in New Mexico, a state not exactly known for its populous counties. It’s probably not a place you’ve visited. It’s surely not a place you’d assign any political significance.

    Except that Valencia County has the longest streak of picking presidents of any county in the United States.

    It started in 1952, when Dwight D. Eisenhower ended the Democratic Party’s two-decade-long occupation of the White House. In every election since, the candidate who has carried Valencia County has also won the presidency. As if that weren’t impressive enough, the candidates’ vote share here has often mirrored (or come very close to mirroring) their performances nationally, making this county the unlikeliest microcosm of American elections.

    That’s right. Forget Ohio. Forget Pennsylvania. Forget Florida, Florida, Florida. The true bellwether of presidential politics is a rectangle-shaped 1,068 square miles of cattle ranches, Native American reservations and commuter suburbs, an obscure county in a small Southwestern state that hasn’t been nationally competitive since 2004.

    …… In an era when partisan loyalties have hardened, a tiny subgroup of New Mexicans has defied definition in a way that no other community of voters can claim.

    So, what gives? What makes Valencia County the most accurate voting jurisdiction in America?
    ……..
    I believe Kevin M lives in NM and has a chance to comment on this.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  45. we certainly don’t know anything about masks preventing spread

    I don’t think anyone claims that they totally prevent spread, but they’re one precaution among others that put up barriers to the spread.

    And it makes sense that a barrier (even if it’s not totally impermeable) to the dissemination of live virus from the mouth and nose of an infected person will decrease the numbers of other people who are infected.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  46. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-scott-gottlieb-discusses-coronavirus-on-face-the-nation-november-1-2020

    Dr, Scott Gittlieb: … my view is the inflection point is going to be Thanksgiving. You’re going to see cases build over the next three weeks, and December is really going to be the slow month. But I think it’s going to be unmistakable what’s happening at that point…


    MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to play a bit of sound for you from something President Trump said at a rally this week.

    (START CLIP)

    PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: You know, our doctors get more money if somebody dies from COVID. You know that, right? I mean, our doctors are very smart people. So what they do is they say, I’m sorry, but, you know, everybody dies of COVID.

    (END CLIP)

    MARGARET BRENNAN: It sounds like the president is saying there’s some financial incentive for doctors to manipulate COVID data–

    DR. GOTTLIEB: Look, I think–

    MARGARET BRENNAN: –or they’re making money off of it.

    DR. GOTTLIEB: –I think it’s troubling to suggest that doctors are manipulating the data to try to get higher reimbursement.

    The CARES Act, which the president signed, provides for additional money, about 20% more money for a COVID-pneumonia case than a regular pneumonia case. The reason was because it’s more expensive to take care of these patients in the hospitals. The hospitals are bleeding money. This was a way to try to get them more resources.

    But you have to have COVID and you have to have pneumonia and it has to be documented. Any doctor that would be documenting COVID-pneumonia in a case where the patient doesn’t have pneumonia, that’s fraud.

    Also, CMS implemented measures to try to encourage hospitals to do more testing inside the hospital. So the testing that doctors are doing in the hospitals is because the government has encouraged them to do that testing.

    But the only additional money is if you- if you have pneumonia and you have COVID. That’s not these patients that they’re talking about that happen to come in with another condition and have COVID. There’s no additional reimbursement for that.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Who do you think is telling him that?

    DR. GOTTLIEB: I think there’s- unfortunately I think there’s probably advisers telling him that. I don’t think the president derived that on his own.

    But he might have enough knowledge to know this is wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  47. > I understand that, but in those instances I would have voted for the Libertarian candidate,

    Gawain’s Ghost, California’s general elections only have two candidates (President excepted). All candidates from all parties appear on the same primary ballot, and the top two candidates *regardless of party* go to the general election.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  48. This is the Marxist propaganda you voted for:

    https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/1322963321994289154

    Is this really the standard you want to apply? You want to tell someone who voted for person x that they voted “for” the aspect of person x’s candidacy they hate the most?

    Are you really sure you want to go there?

    OK then. Let’s go.

    I early voted on Thursday for Trump.

    Did you? OK. I guess you voted for anti-mask propaganda, for killing people though advocacy of unsafe measures during a pandemic, for firing Fauci, for corruption, for self-dealing, for idiotic tweets, for illiteracy, for end-runs around security clearance protocols for relatives, for coddling dictators, for endless lies, and for a host of other things I could name.

    Why don’t you pick the thing you hate most about Trump?

    You voted for that.

    Applying your standard, that is.

    I think that’s an unnecessarily nasty way to characterize someone’s vote. To me, I disagree with your vote, but it’s your vote, not mine. I’m not going to try to shame you for it, other than to show you how you ought to be shamed if your own standard is applied to your own vote.

    I prefer to say: hey, Mattsky, agree to disagree.

    I have archives of material denigrating Joe Biden. I am not a fan. I see people citing that on social media. My response is: I know, right? How freaking bad does the president have to be that I not only am voting for Biden, but am doing so without any reservation?

    I’m going to spend four years listening to people blaming me for every bad thing Biden does. And in every case, when that criticism comes from a Trump voter, the criticism is going to come from someone who wants to evade responsibility for the bad stuff Trump did. That’s hypocrisy. If, like you, they’re a first-time Trump voter in 2020, they will want to evade responsibility for the stuff Trump promised to do, like fire Fauci.

    If you’re going to live by the metaporical sword that the voter “owns” the worst aspects of the presidency of his chosen candidate, then that’s a sword by which you need to, as the metaphor goes, be prepared to die.

    I don’t think that’s a fair or productive way to conduct a political conversation.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  49. So, what gives? What makes Valencia County the most accurate voting jurisdiction in America?

    Statistics.

    According to the US Geological Survey, there are 3,141 counties in the US.

    Between 1952 and 2016 (inclusive), there have been 16 presidential elections.

    If each county in the US voted for president by flipping a coin every four years, the chances of at least one county picking 16/16 winners would be about 1-in-20.

    But in reality, counties do not vote by coin-flip, and the outcome in any given county must be somewhat correlated, on average, with the national outcome. In addition, several of those elections have been such blowouts that nearly every county voted for the winner. Treating the outcomes in different counties is clearly incorrect.

    Taking that into account in a precise would be quite difficult, but we can (fairly) easily answer the question: what average level of correlation would be necessary for the chance of at least one county going 16/16 to be an even-money bet?

    The answer is about 59% (as opposed to the 50% of a random coin flip).

    So Valencia County is not really all that weird, I think.

    Dave (1bb933)

  50. Treating the outcomes in different counties *as independent* …

    Dave (1bb933)

  51. Continuing a thread from over the weekend — in the federal lawsuit involving Harris county’s 110K already-cast drive-through ballots, the district court judge threw the case out on standing grounds, and added in dicta that even if there were standing he wouldn’t invalidate the already-cast votes *and* grumbled about the whole mess not being timely.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  52. This is going to be a highly contested and litigious election, which is why Biden has been quietly building a legal battle war chest.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/02/biden-camp-fundraising-post-election-433803

    Trump will not go gently into that good night, even if he loses by an overwhelming margin. He’s going to sue everyone in sight. That’s what he does. He most often settles of course, but not this time. He’s going to contest every mail-in ballot counted after Nov. 3, of which there will be millions (over 93 million people have already cast their vote by mail-in or early voting). This year will see the highest voter turnout in history.

    That’s why Trumpublicans are desperately trying to suppress the vote, interfering with the postal service. In Texas, Gov. Abbot tried to disqualify over 130,000 ballots in Harris County (Houston) that were cast by drive-by voting.

    This is going to get real messy, real quick. Lawsuit after lawsuit in every state, particularly Pennsylvania, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Michigan, Minnesota, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, and Nevada. Buckle up you seat belts, because we are headed for a bumpy ride.

    We probably won’t know the total vote count by the end of November. However, every state must report its vote tally six days before the electoral college meets in early December. But that then will be contested and litigated through appeals all the way up to the Supreme Court, assuming the justices will agree to hear the case.

    This is not 2000 all over again, not is it 2016. Trump may try, if he loses, to sue his way into reelection, but I don’t think any reasonable lower appellate court, or the Supreme Court, would grant him a hearing.

    This has all the makings of a Machiavellian nightmare. The prince rules.

    Donald Trump is not a prince, nor is he a king. He’s a corrupt, incompetent failed inheritor of his father’s estate. And he hasn’t done a very well good job at managing it. Trump is a total fraud.

    But he does have thousands of cultist followers who will rush to rallies and become infected with novel coronavirus. That says a lot about the man, or man-child.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  53. Dave (1bb933) — 11/2/2020 @ 12:30 pm

    If each county in the US voted for president by flipping a coin every four years, the chances of at least one county picking 16/16 winners would be about 1-in-20.

    But in reality, counties do not vote by coin-flip, and the outcome in any given county must be somewhat correlated, on average, with the national outcome. In addition, several of those elections have been such blowouts that nearly every county voted for the winner. Treating the outcomes in different counties is clearly incorrect.

    The only thing to be explained is why to voted differently than it usually does in an election that was closer than the margin by which it tends to favor its usual party? The county might have changed; it might have mixture of different kinds of voters.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  54. 43. Simply confirming Reagan’s memory was already failing in 1985, eh Sammy. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  55. Any vote, for either guy, which puts another nail in the coffin of the modern ideological conservative movement is welcomed.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  56. Speaking of getting fired be careful what you wish for!

    asset (c91471)

  57. The answer is about 59% (as opposed to the 50% of a random coin flip).

    So Valencia County is not really all that weird, I think.

    Dave (1bb933) — 11/2/2020 @ 12:30 pm

    Statistically it might not seem that weird but when you account for all the demographic and societal changes throughout those 16 elections and one county was able to still guess correctly, it is pretty impressive.

    Hoi Polloi (15cfac)

  58. @58. The Apprentice 101. How quickly “folks” forget the showmanship of the showman. He hasn’t given Fauci the hook… but the suspense does thrill the audience. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  59. Way OT, but interesting….

    Edward Snowden, Expecting a Child, Will Seek Russian Citizenship
    ……
    [O]n Monday he said he was applying for Russian citizenship.

    Mr. Snowden, the former intelligence contractor whose disclosures of mass U.S. surveillance turned him into one of the highest-profile fugitives on the planet, said that he and his American wife were taking the step because they were expecting their first child. He described the move as a practical measure to give his family greater freedom crossing borders.
    ……
    President Trump said in August that he would “take a very good look at” a pardon for Mr. Snowden, but no such move appears imminent. Last month, Mr. Snowden received permanent residency in Russia, and his wife, Lindsay Mills, revealed that she was pregnant.
    ……
    “Lindsay and I will remain Americans, raising our son with all the values of the America we love — including the freedom to speak his mind,” Mr. Snowden wrote on Twitter. …..
    …..
    “….raising our son with all the values of the America we love — including the freedom to speak his mind…..”

    Good luck with that in Putin’s Russia. Watch out for the Novichok. His travel will still be pretty limited, as I am guessing the US would ask any country outside the Russian sphere of influence to detain him.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  60. I voted for Biden, and if he wins, I’ll be relieved but not happy. I don’t expect his presidency to be a particularly good one, and I’m sure I’ll wax critical of many stupid things he’ll likely do and say. But I made the choice because I think that Biden’s bad will be within tolerable limits. Trump’s bad has not been, and if he wins and is no longer beholden to anyone, his “bad” will only become “worse.” My inclination was just to sit this one out and not vote ate all, because I don’t want to “own” a Biden presidency. But then I also don’t want to “own” the responsibility of not adding my small weight to getting rid of the cancer that Trump’s presidency has been, and if I abstain from voting, then I end up owning that responsibility. There is no question in my mind which “owning” I’d rather be saddled with.

    Roger (83ed7d)

  61. Something more from the Great Swamp-Drainer:

    The Trump administration has been repeatedly condemned for its mishandling and destruction of records, with good government groups and congressional oversight committees warning the National Archives and Records Administration that critical documents – including the deaths and conditions of migrants in custody of Immigration and Customs Enforcement as well as water quality reports from the Environmental Protection Agency – could be in jeopardy.

    Staffers reportedly have even had to tape together paperwork that the president ripped up, violating the Presidential Records Act, which requires the preservation of the “the activities, deliberations, decisions, and policies that reflect the performance of the president’s constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties.”

    “Not only have they not been transparent, they have engaged in misconduct if they have something to hide,” Mr Sherman said.

    Members of the administration have also relied on social media accounts and messaging apps for government communication, prompting CREW to urge Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey to preserve accounts and messages on the platform.

    No wonder they hate Dorsey.
    Whatever it takes to defeat all the D.C. corruption, right?

    Radegunda (20775b)

  62. Meant to include the link.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  63. Why don’t you pick the thing you hate most about Trump?

    You voted for that.

    Applying your standard, that is.

    It is fair to apply the same standard to my vote.


    I think that’s an unnecessarily nasty way to characterize someone’s vote.

    I don’t think I was being nasty. I didn’t call you any names or say anything derogatory about you. I said I understood you hating Trump and not wanting four more years of Trump. I was expressing why Biden scares me more.

    I prefer to say: hey, Mattsky, agree to disagree.

    Fair enough. I’ll agree to disagree.

    Mattsky (55d339)

  64. IN california your Biden vote doesn’t matter….but it’s sad to see you’d choose actual marxism over a person who may be amoral, but at least won’t destroy the republic.

    Patrick McMahon (1fdcd2)

  65. but at least won’t destroy the republic.

    … just claims that the Constitution gives him “total authority”;
    – says that Article 2 lets him “do whatever [he] want[s] as president”;
    – instructs Border Patrol agents to break the law and says he’ll then pardon them;
    – declares that an election he loses must be fraudulent;
    – won’t commit to accepting the result if he loses;
    – threatens to declare himself the winner before all the legitimately cast votes are counted;
    – tells the Supreme Court they’d better decide in his favor if the results are litigated;
    – thinks the Department of Justice should be his personal legal team;
    – commandeers the FDA and the CDC to act as political mouthpieces (which my sister has seen at her job);
    – turns Voice of America into a partisan enterprise;
    – spends most of a Covid task-force meeting complaining that someone at Fox News said something unflattering about him and trying to get someone to pressure Fox to get back to praising him ceaselessly;
    – does not maintain official records as required;
    – asks people working in the administration to do things that are “criminally stupid”;
    Und so weiter.

    I’ve been critical of the Dem agenda for a long, but the idea that Trump is a rock-ribbed defender of the constitutional republic and rule of law is laughable.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  66. but it’s sad to see you’d choose actual marxism over a person who may be amoral

    I think you don’t understand what “actual marxism” is…

    but at least won’t destroy the republic

    What color is the sky on your planet?

    Dave (1bb933)

  67. Well maybe for every 1 of he, 2 Groyper/Coulter types stay home:

    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/lil-pump-threatening-leave-u-223808878.html

    urbanleftbehind (f75094)

  68. at least won’t destroy the republic

    He encouraged his supporters to vote twice, which is a felony.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  69. @66. Rest easy; ideologues across the board are in retreat. These are transactional times.

    For instance; surprise: NATO partners are starting to pay their way.

    Glorious. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  70. He encouraged his supporters to vote twice, which is a felony.

    You really don’t grasp the entertainment business, do you. But hey- keep watching and keep quoting him! 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  71. Because no one attends the big guys rallies he thinks America is dead.

    mg (8cbc69)

  72. Trump’s path to victory is very narrow. He cannot afford to kill more of his supporters.

    Then why does he keep leaving them stranded in the cold?
    Time123 (6e0727) — 11/2/2020 @ 8:57 am

    Come on. Give him some credit. He knows anything they catch is unlikely to kill them until after they’ve voted.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  73. Yeah, let’s bring back rule by experts. God help us.
    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/2/2020 @ 9:07 am

    Serious question: What do you do for a living?

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  74. nk (1d9030) — 11/2/2020 @ 10:24 am

    and a Fifth Avenue draft dodger almost certainly in Putin’s pocket fans the flames.

    almost? now you’re hedging your bet?

    frosty (f27e97)

  75. hope your business is boarded up

    mg (8cbc69)

  76. almost? now you’re hedging your bet?

    I have always left open the possibility that it was not for money but for true love.

    nk (1d9030)

  77. lurker (d8c5bc) — 11/2/2020 @ 4:08 pm

    Serious question: What do you do for a living?

    I’m getting the sense that you and some others are all in for some version of how most people should just listening to their betters when it comes to these sorts of things.

    If experts hadn’t shown themselves to be just as suspectible as anyone else to personal political biases before 2020 then 2020 should have removed all doubt. An expert should be able to explain something in terms a reasonable person can understand. If they can’t and it starts to sound like some version of trust me because I’m an expert then you need a new expert.

    frosty (f27e97)

  78. Serious question: What do you do for a living?
    lurker (d8c5bc) — 11/2/2020 @ 4:08 pm

    What does it matter?

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  79. Doctors on the front lines have not been listening to Trump’s CDC for quite a while now. They don’t trust it. They have developed and shared their own protocols and treatments, and so have most local public health officials.

    nk (1d9030)

  80. 63. Radegunda (20775b) — 11/2/2020 @ 1:56 pm

    Staffers reportedly have even had to tape together paperwork that the president ripped up, violating the Presidential Records Act, which requires the preservation of the “the activities, deliberations, decisions, and policies that reflect the performance of the president’s constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties.”

    That;s trivial, and not news. Donald Trump apparently was in the a habit, during his business career, of ripping up any piece of paper that he was done with that didn;t need to be saved for legal reasons.

    But the president was different. At least, as interpreted, or maybe as it was claimed here, any piece of paper he laid his eyes on, o that he scribbled on, or that somebody else scribbled on, had to be archived. This was not so of any Cabinet member and still less of the CIA.

    The thing here was, they couldn’t tell this to Donald Trump, or he didn’t listen, or he didn’t think it applied to everything. He wouldn’t shred them – there was no shredder in the Oval Office and he didn’t ask for one or supply one himself, but he would tear the pieces of paper up.

    So they would go into the wastepaper basket later, and piece them together.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  81. Come on, man! Don’t you know Trump? Here’s the deal: Fauci didn’t get on Trump’s fecal roster for contradicting Trump’s pets. No, where Fauci went wrong is when he threw out the first pitch at the Nationals game, and Brad Pitt played him on SNL. You – don’t – upstage – the – prima – donna!

    nk (1d9030)

  82. Hoi Polloi (66077a) — 11/2/2020 @ 4:40 pm

    What does it matter?

    BnP irritates a lot of people so any personal information is useful and, sometimes, a regular ad hominem just doesn’t give the required dopamine hit.

    frosty (f27e97)

  83. I understand the hesitation to share personal details, having been doxxed by some kooks way back when.

    But I am interested in the general field BnP is in, that he thinks expertise is wrong. I think he probably meant something more like the intelligentsia or academia are messed up.

    It’s an ugly year, an ugly election, everyone has plenty to dislike about the other guy. We shouldn’t let it make us hate other people. You don’t like Biden? I get that. I don’t like him even though I voted for him. I’m sure his fans understand why I don’t like Trump.

    Meanwhile it’s still a gorgeous day outside. We are all very lucky to live in this place, in this time, no matter what the TV and the blogs and the social media want us to be scared of.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  84. Dustin (4237e0) — 11/2/2020 @ 5:01 pm

    But I am interested in the general field BnP is in, that he thinks expertise is wrong.

    I’m interested in how you got that from what he said. He added more context at @18. He’s certainly free to contradict me but there’s nothing in his statement about expertise itself being wrong. I have to think you actually meant something else or this is the bias I mentioned in @79.

    Either that or there are more people willing to turn over decision making to “experts” in the name of democracy and freedom than I thought.

    frosty (f27e97)

  85. @77.

    “Hope your business is boarded up!” – Bidenomics
    “Yuuuuge boom in plywood sales helps make America great again. Again!”- Trumponomics

    😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  86. Who’s quarterbacking for the Blue Hens this weekend, Joe? 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  87. 67. Radegunda (20775b) — 11/2/2020 @ 3:07 pm

    but the idea that Trump is a rock-ribbed defender of the constitutional republic and rule of law is laughable.

    I heard on WOR an excerpt of a speech he gave in which he styled himself as a defender of self government n contrast to his opponents.

    If you wanted self government you should vote for a guy named Donald Trump, he said.

    This might be it:

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-rally-speech-transcript-scranton-pa-november-2

    . This election comes down to a simple choice. Do you want to be ruled by the corrupt, selfless political class, or do you want to be ruled and governed by the American people? Which is what we’re doing, which is one of the reasons I’m here. A vote for Biden is a vote to give control of government over to the globalist, communist, socialist, the wealthy liberal hypocrites, who want to silent, sensor, cancel, and punish you. If you want your children to be safe, if you want your values to be respected, if you want to be treated with honor, dignity, and respect, then I am asking you to go tomorrow and vote for Trump. Come on.

    I think he’s said similar things in a few speeches.

    He also said we need to know history, good or bad. We shouldn’t destroy history. We can learn from history. (I can’t find that)

    His speeches, or parts of them, may be getting a little bit better.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  88. 80.

    What does it matter?
    Hoi Polloi (66077a) — 11/2/2020 @ 4:40 pm

    It matters because expertise matters. Because despite experts suffering all the same limitations and foibles everyone else does, ceteris paribus an expert’s opinion is worth more on matters within his area of expertise than a non-expert’s. Removed from the arena of emotionally charged partisan food fights, most people understand that, indeed they take it for granted, when applied to their own field. So I asked in order to present it to him in a context I hoped he would understand.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  89. 79.

    I’m getting the sense that you and some others are all in for some version of how most people should just listening to their betters when it comes to these sorts of things.

    […]

    and 84.

    BnP irritates a lot of people so any personal information is useful and, sometimes, a regular ad hominem just doesn’t give the required dopamine hit.

    Go to H*ll. See my answer to Hoi Polloi, above.

    Next time, before you assume I’m acting in bad faith, try asking me.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  90. Do you want to be ruled by the corrupt, selfless political class, or do you want to be ruled and governed by the American people?

    Did he actually say “selfless”? Does he know what ‘selfless’ means? Do his speechwriters?

    You know that old chestnut about a million monkeys typing, Shakespeare, etc? That’s Trump’s speeches.

    nk (1d9030)

  91. Why don’t you never trumpers reorganize “The Know Nothing Party”.

    mg (8cbc69)

  92. Here’s Trump on the virus at that rally in Scranton:

    It will quickly eradicate. The vaccine will quickly eradicate the virus and wipe out the China plague once and for all. And let me tell you we’re rounding the corner anyway, but we have the vaccines coming very shortly. They didn’t want to give me the credit. They were saying, “No, don’t.” Whoa, they fought me like crazy. Did you see that? They didn’t want it to happen before the election, but everybody knows. So we have the vaccine. It’s going to be very quickly delivered by our military. Our military is ready to go logistically. Joe Biden is promising to delay the vaccine and turn America into a prison state locking you in your home, but you’re already locked in your home.

    This is, how to put it, a little bit exaggerated.

    If by rounding the corner, he means cases are going down, exactly the opposite is happening. Unless the idea is get people exposed and immunized. Everybody does not know the vaccine is coming. a vaccination cannot have an effect till six weeks later, if it is the one where you need two shots, and then it only helps the people who got it. It’s not over until most of the population is vaccinated or has immunity other ways.

    Trump is on record as saying he thinks the antibodies are more important but he says nothing about that here, or about his illness.

    The military will only deliver it where delivery services can’t go.

    Joe Biden isn’t promising to delay the vaccine; he’s promising not to speed it up. Democratic governors (in the states of California, Oregon, Washington and New York at least) are promising to delay the vaccine, by subjecting it to an extra round of approval. But maybe that only applies if Fauci is fired.

    Later:

    The Biden lockdown will be no school, no graduations, no weddings, no Easter, no Thanksgiving, no Christmas, no 4th of July, and basically no future for American youth.

    Other than that, actually, it’s quite a wonderful thing. A vote for Biden is a vote for lockdown, layoffs, and misery. You’re going to have a miserable time. You know what the fake news doesn’t know? They’re getting the highest ratings in the history of television. When Trump is gone, they’re all going bankrupt. They will go down. They’re going to say, “Oh, I wish…” They’re going to be calling we want Trump to run again. We want him to run again, the fake news. The New York Times, the failing New York Times will be out of business. Can you imagine? Yeah, four more years. It’s true though, right. Can you imagine these people, they’re getting the highest ratings on television. [News programs? SF] They’ve taken over for the NFL. People don’t like. How about basketball? How about LeBron? I felt badly for LeBron. I felt very badly. Down 71%. And that’s for the champion. I didn’t watch one shot. I get bored. Back, forth, back, forth. You know why? When they don’t respect our country, when they don’t respect our flag, nobody wants to watch. Nobody. And the NFL is way down….

    He’s a stand up comedian. Or a television comedian. He even has video of Joe Biden.

    He says so many things that are wrong. Biden did not run the 2009 swine flu program.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  93. nk @92. I am not sure what word Trump used. Rev transcripts aren’t perfect.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  94. Why would conservatives vote for Biden/Harris?

    The Cruz Factor, eh?!: ‘Kamala Harris spent her high school years in Westmount, in Montreal, Canada. And although she does not talk about that period in her life, there is no reason to believe it did not shape her in some profound way.’ source, wikiblameCanada/blameCanada

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  95. I believe Kevin M lives in NM and has a chance to comment on this.

    I got nothing. I know it’s just south of Bernadillo County (ABQ) on I-25, but I’ve not been there. There is this though (Wikipedia):

    The county, which was formerly much larger in area, lost almost 81 percent of its territory on 19 June 1981, upon the creation of Cibola County, which occupies the westernmost portion of Valencia County’s former area.

    So, I don’t think much about any trend going back earlier than that.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  96. As far as finding someplace that’s been right in 16 successive coin-flips, there has to be one, right? That’s only 1 in 65,536. It’s not astronomical.

    Also, consider Douglas Adams’ “Rain God”, the Englishman around whom it is always raining.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  97. You really don’t grasp the entertainment business, do you. But hey- keep watching and keep quoting him! 😉
    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/2/2020 @ 3:58 pm

    I was under the impression that Trump was elected to be president and faithfully execute the laws of a constitutional republic — not to keep his devoted fans amused.

    And saying we should know better than to take Trump’s unscripted comments seriously is quite the defense, especially considering how many times the Trumpers have insisted that he is uncommonly candid.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  98. I hope that, by mid-November, Trump is done with us, quits, takes his stiff and goes home. At which point Pence orders his passport seized.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  99. And saying we should know better than to take Trump’s unscripted comments seriously is quite the defense, especially considering how many times the Trumpers have insisted that he is uncommonly candid.

    Also considering how many toadies he’s embarrassed by doubling down on things they said he was kidding about.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  100. And saying we should know better than to take Trump’s unscripted comments seriously is quite the defense, especially considering how many times the Trumpers have insisted that he is uncommonly candid.

    “Clown nose on, clown nose off” would apply only if the clown nose ever came off.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  101. if you want to be treated with honor, dignity, and respect, then I am asking you to go tomorrow and vote for Trump

    He also said we need to know history, good or bad. We shouldn’t destroy history. We can learn from history. (I can’t find that)
    His speeches, or parts of them, may be getting a little bit better.

    So a speechwriter has written some nice words for him to read. But no one can seriously believe that Trump knows much history or cares to learn.

    And the idea that he represents “honor, dignity, and respect” is ludicrous. Maybe it was written by the same person who claimed that Trump’s best quality is “compassion” (which I first thought had to be satire, but it wasn’t).

    Radegunda (20775b)

  102. He’s a stand up comedian.

    Except that he isn’t funny.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  103. lurker (d8c5bc) — 11/2/2020 @ 5:44 pm

    It matters because expertise matters.

    Just a reminder, “It” is

    Serious question: What do you do for a living?

    What BnP does for a living has nothing to do with “expertise matters”.

    Next time, before you assume I’m acting in bad faith, try asking me.

    It was pretty clear and @90 doesn’t explain why you need to know details about BnP. You can make an impassioned defense of expertise without needing to know a single thing about BnP. You gave an example of that in @90. No, @75 was you trying to setup a sitution where you could say some version of “any expert’s opinion is worth more yours” if you got the response you were looking for. @91 is you saying I’m right.

    Next time, don’t make it so obvious.

    frosty (f27e97)

  104. I’m convinced there are people who back in 2015-16 who recognized Trump as a mostly empty vessel driven by a colossal ego, into which they could pour their own political agenda, and put some high-minded language in his mouth to pretty up his “winners vs. losers” worldview.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  105. nk (1d9030) — 11/2/2020 @ 5:44 pm

    Did he actually say “selfless”? Does he know what ‘selfless’ means? Do his speechwriters?

    We live in a time where you can pick between a POTUS who says words he might not understand or a POTUS who mumbles words no one else understands.

    frosty (f27e97)

  106. Do you want to be ruled by the corrupt, selfish political class, or do you want to be ruled and governed by the corrupt, selfish American people?

    FIFY, Don.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  107. O.M.G.

    “Folks! Tomorrow is the beginning of a new day!” – Joe Biden, Pittburgh, PA 11/2/20

    This twit has never had an original thought in his life; once a plagiarist, always a plagiarist:

    “After all, tomorrow is another day!’ – Scarlett O’Hara [Vivien Leigh] ‘Gone With The Wind’ 1939

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  108. No, @75 was you trying to setup a sitution where you could say some version of “any expert’s opinion is worth more yours” if you got the response you were looking for.

    This I may be the way Trump or one of his devoted would argue, but I thought the point was going to be that if bnp does anything more sophisticated than flipping burgers or busing tables (and I assume he does), he takes the value of expertise for granted in his work.

    In other words, lurker was hoping to convince bnp using an example drawn from bnp’ s profession. But in order to do so, he needed to know what it is.

    Dave (1bb933)

  109. 105. Keep making things up which I neither said, implied, nor intended. I explained why I asked BnP what he does for a living. If you’re too reading-comprehension-challenged to understand it — Dave had no problem getting it — I can’t really help you. If you do get it, but you just want to keep on accusing me of bad faith on no evidence outside your vivid imagination of what I must be thinking, then I’ll say it again: Go to H*ll. Also grow up.

    Your confidence in your mind reading skills doesn’t exactly bolster your attack on expertise.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  110. lurker (d8c5bc) — 11/2/2020 @ 6:34 pm

    Your confidence in your mind reading skills doesn’t exactly bolster your attack on expertise.

    That might be because I’m not making one. Can you point out where I attacked “expertise”? This is something you are accusing BnP of and you also can’t support that based on what he said. That doesn’t seem to stop you from

    making things up which I neither said, implied, nor intended

    As to

    Dave had no problem getting it

    Dave came up with a better excuse for you than you had at @90. You’re now latching on to it. You didn’t need any of that to support this “expertise” argument.

    If you’re too reading-comprehension-challenged to understand it

    You and Dave can’t help yourselves with the personal attacks. I’ll say it again. I’m not makeing an “attack on expertise”. I don’t think BnP is either and that seemed clear but he’s free to contradict me. This “attack on expertise” narrative is coming from

    bad faith [based] on no evidence outside your vivid imagination

    You’re emotional reaction here is working against you. It would have been much easier to just say you weren’t trying to dig and leave it, or just leave it. @84 wasn’t really worth a GTH unless it was on target.

    frosty (f27e97)

  111. Trump say
    He says things that are basically true, mixed up with things that are not true (and sometimes verbal slips or mistakes in the transcript)

    …And when he announces his speech in Scranton, Pennsylvania, he said, “I live in Pennsylvania. I was born in Scranton.” He doesn’t say that his father left him

    [Sic. This should be left THERE or left WITH HIM. Till you listen to the audio you can
    t tell who made the mistake]

    Trump:

    I went to college in Pennsylvania, right? But I don’t make the biggest deal of it. But he’s … “I’m a man from Scranton. I’m from … ” He left at nine years old. And that’s okay. That’s okay. But this guy is a stone cold phony, and honestly, he’s not equipped mentally to be your president. He really isn’t.

    This trope of Biden’s is actually trivial, but that’s an easy line of attack for Trump. Maybe it could be used by Saturday Night Live, if enough people become aware of it, and if they were inclined to criticize Biden.

    You know it, I know it, everybody knows it. I have foreign leaders calling me saying, “Are they serious?” I say … One of them called, said, “I see that you’re down a little bit in the poll.” I said, “Can you believe this could happen to me?”

    ?!

    I’d rather run against somebody that was good or even outstanding. But I think what we’re going to have is one of the great days. When he comes to Scranton, then he gives a speech, he’s got the six circles. He can’t fill them up. So he said, “Could you please move over here to the press?” He puts the press [inaudible 00:28:48].

    Somebody’s got to improve this transcript.

    And look at this crowd. I don’t know how many people are here, but there’s a lot of people here. And it’s windy as hell and it’s cold, but I couldn’t care.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  112. Trump says ridiculous things – they’re so bad, they’re not even lies:

    I know what trending is better than anybody in the world. I’ve been trending my whole life. From the day I was born, I’ve been trending. I know trending.

    !!! His whole life!

    He’s only been famous since about the mid-1980s. Or maybe the mid-1970s at most. He did co=produce a Broadway play, which failed, in the 1969-70 season.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1970/02/22/archives/paris-is-out-can-leave-kerr-out.html

    Donald Trump’s name is not in the paper.

    But there’s this, from 1976 (44 years ago)

    https://www.nytimes.com/1976/11/01/archives/donald-trump-real-estate-promoter-builds-image-as-he-buys-buildings.html

    Flair. It’s one of Donald J. Trump’s favorite words, and both he, his friends and his enemies use it when describing his way of life as well as his business style as New York’s No. 1 real estate promoter of the middle 1970’s…

    ….Speaking occasionally on his car telephone to his secretary and his banker at Chase Manhattan, Mr. Trump directed his chauffeur to make stops at the 60th Street yards; the convention center site a federally subsidized Trump housing project for the aged in East Orange, N.J., which he calls “our philanthropic endeavor”; a middle income housing project on Staten Island; the flagship 4,000‐unit Trump Village in Brooklyn and several other older Trump‐owned projects in Brooklyn that the company bought in recent years….

    ….Although the Trumps have been building in New York City since 1923, the family has not gotten as much publicity as other real‐estate developers because they did not enter the Manhattan market until three years ago.

    “It was psychology,” Mr. Trump explained. “My father knew Brooklyn very well, and he knew Queens very well. But now, that psychology is ended.”

    His father Fred did some publicity things. though.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  113. You and Dave can’t help yourselves with the personal attacks.

    Said without a hint of irony. Are you denying that,

    “BnP irritates a lot of people so any personal information is useful and, sometimes, a regular ad hominem just doesn’t give the required dopamine hit”

    is a personal attack? You’re accusing me via clarevoyance of some thought-crime version of what you’ve been doing explicitly from the outset. Very Trumpian. I’m done with you. Not worth it.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  114. And beer ‘n pretzels smiled, and forwarded the thread to his supervisor to make sure that the derailment goes on his job evaluation with a note that it was at Comment #8.

    nk (1d9030)

  115. Heh. Frosty gets honorable mention.

    DRJ (aede82)

  116. I spent the weekend in Livermore, CA, where a person can be fined $100 for walking OUTSIDE without a mask. This is lunacy.

    I can’t believe how people are so willing to sacrifice freedom for the barest possibility of “safety”.

    What a bunch of sheeple. Gryph was right.

    norcal (a5428a)

  117. My all-time favorite 2020 mask comedy. Some humor on the subject.
    Masks in Cars

    Marci (405d43)

  118. Very funny, Marci.

    What a bunch of sheeple. Gryph was right.

    norcal (a5428a) — 11/2/2020 @ 7:52 pm

    Well he’s not all wrong, but I think he’s definitely misguided on some of this stuff. I agree there’s overkill, but the idea of everyone working together on some of this stuff is ok. But that right there is where Trump had the chance to be a great president (not that you have ever suggested you disagree with that).

    Dustin (4237e0)

  119. 8. 10.

    b’np: Yeah, let’s bring back rule by experts. God help us.

    Dave: Because rule by a sociopathic imbecile is going so well!

    At least that breaks the consensus.

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/344539-i-want-to-pause-here-and-talk-about-this-notion

    “I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science. I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you’re being had.

    Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.

    There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. Period.”

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  120. I spent the weekend in Livermore, CA, where a person can be fined $100 for walking OUTSIDE without a mask. This is lunacy.

    I agree. I walk the dogs and do not wear a mask for that.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  121. For all we know, the town is doing it for the money. The Covid version of the speed trap.

    I’ll add, that we have no such law in Chicago, but I see a lot of people with masks on outdoors. Even joggers.

    nk (1d9030)

  122. @123 It isn’t a rule in any of the several California towns that I frequent. I will say, though, that the speed trap on my way to/from work that is only occasionally manned has had someone running it very very often in the last couple of weeks.

    Nic (896fdf)

  123. lurker (d8c5bc) — 11/2/2020 @ 7:40 pm

    It was a reasonable description of what you were doing. But sure, get upset about “personal” attacks now after you’ve been throwing them around like beads during mardi gras.

    frosty (f27e97)

  124. 33. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 11/2/2020 @ 11:14 am

    I continue to believe the whole Walter Reed visit was staged. Trump might have tested positive once, as he gets tested daily,

    It wasn’t really daily, although his press secretary said so at one point. Trump claimed differently.

    but it could have been a false positive. The number of positive tests that came out of the Rose Garden ceremony to announce the nomination of Barrett, and the spread of the virus through the White House staff, suggests he may have been infected. I just don’t believe a trip to the hospital, oxygen treatment, experimental and unapproved drugs and anti-virals cured him in three days.

    I do.

    The entire scientific medical establishment is in denial about the possibility of knowing that and that’s what’s wrong with Dr Fauci. Trump is also wrong for caving in.

    Of course part of the problem is they didn’t ramp up production on spec likw they did with vaccines.

    And I hate this claim that’s it is a bridge to a vaccine. In many ways the antibody treatment is better than a vaccine, as Trump himself said, and low doses can be used as an alternative to a vaccine, albeit one that gives only temporary immunity.

    Chris Cuomo tested positive, and he quarantined himself in his basement for two weeks, so as not to infect his family, and filmed his CNN show from there. The standard quarantine is supposed to be for 40 days, by the way.

    Fourteen (14) But in any case you don’t understand the protocols.

    Fourteen days is if someone never test positive, but could have been exposed. If someone tests positive, gets sick, and recovers, 3 days without symptoms is enough, even if it less than 13 days since the first suspected exposure. Who said it had to make sense? (the excuse for this would be someone might have an infection that builds slowly, but once it on a downward trend, it’s going to stay there.)

    Chris Cuomo didn’t abide by the restrictions he claimed he was abiding by, by the way. e also wasn;t 73 years old. And Trump is now playing down the drugs he took.

    So, yeah, I believe the Walter Reed visit was staged. It was Trump’s way of showing his cult fans that Covid-19 is no big deal. Photos of him at the hospital, signing blank sheets of paper as if he were presidential–he wasn’t working, he was pretending–then him triumphantly returning to the White House so he could rip off his mask and give a salute was so lame. It was obviously faked to support his narrative and to lure his fanatical supporters to large gatherings, without masks and social distancing.

    Wait a second: Is your theory that he really was infected and didn’t get sick? If so, what you say he wanted to show – how harmless Covid was – would be true and staging a trip to the hhospital would undermine that. Now if he wanted to show there was a cure, then staging an entire illness would make sense. But he’s not talking about it any more.

    No, he was really sick, and he got cured, but Trump being Trump, his evangelical fervor is limited, and he’s intimidated by experts, and e was probably asked by Regeneron not to talk about it also. They might never get FDA approval if he talks too much. It would spoil the trials where half the patents get a placebo and more of the placebo group dies.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  125. * . If someone tests positive, gets sick, and recovers, 3 days without symptoms is enough, even if it less than 14 days since the first suspected exposure.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  126. Fifth circuit has now denied the appeal of the refusal to issue an injunction in the Harris County drive-thru voting case.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  127. I would have given the plaintiffs until the polls open tomorrow morning to join all the 127,000 people who already voted as necessary parties before I dismissed the case. 😉

    What?

    nk (1d9030)

  128. It matters because expertise matters. Because despite experts suffering all the same limitations and foibles everyone else does, ceteris paribus an expert’s opinion is worth more on matters within his area of expertise than a non-expert’s. Removed from the arena of emotionally charged partisan food fights, most people understand that, indeed they take it for granted, when applied to their own field. So I asked in order to present it to him in a context I hoped he would understand.

    When talking about politics and such, what does your “expertise” matter? All that matters is your vote. I’m sure you consider some people’s opinion more than others, but that doesn’t mean those you support are experts.

    Or does this mean you are one of those “I love Science” guys, but really don’t understand what science is all about?

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  129. The Lincoln Project riffs on Trump’s promise to fire Fauci after the election.

    Harrison Ford narrates.

    “Tomorrow, you can fire only one of them.”

    [side-by-side photos of Trump and Fauci]

    “The choice is yours.”

    Dave (1bb933)


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