Patterico's Pontifications

9/10/2020

GOP Circle The Wagons To Defend Trump (UPDATE ADDED)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 8:17 am



[guest post by Dana]

We knew it would happen. Prominent leaders in the GOP were bound to jump into the fray and defend Trump after previews of Bob Woodward books were released. The portion at the center of the firestorm reveals that the President said, on tape, that he intentionally downplayed the virus.

Here is a roundup of reactions by Republicans desperately trying to downplay Trump’s downplay:

Sen. Thom Tillis, a vulnerable Republican who is up for reelection, said he wants to see “the full context” of Trump’s comments before fully weighing in. But he added: “When you’re in a crisis situation, you have to inform people for their public health but you also don’t want to create hysteria.”

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican also up for reelection, pointed to Feb. 29 comments that Dr. Anthony Fauci made on the “Today” show where he said that there was “no need” for people to change their lifestyles “at this moment,” though Fauci also warned about the threat of “community spread” from the coronavirus and cautioned that the risk level “could change.”

“I think it became clear that the human transmission was greater than originally thought,” Graham told CNN.

“So when the President shutdown the economy in March I think that was a bold decision because he took the hottest economy in decades and shut it down. I think that was the decision of consequence, shutting the economy down.” (The White House left the decisions to states to decide whether to shut down their economies.)

Graham added: “I don’t think he needs to go on TV and screaming we’re all going to die.”

Asked again if he was OK with Trump admitting that he played down the threat, Graham said: “His actions of shutting the economy down were the right actions. I think the tone during that time sort of spoke for itself. People knew it was serious”

Other Republicans offered similar defenses:

“I’d argued since day one that we put this in proper perspective: I have not been in favor of these overall shutdowns, have been devastating to the economy, devastating to people’s health in other ways,” said Sen. Ron Johnson, chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, told me, when asked about Trump’s comments to Woodward.

Johnson added: “It’s been a difficult thing to manage, and I’ve tried not to be critical of any government officials having to make really tough decisions with imperfect information, that includes governors and the President. So I understand what he’s saying. I don’t think it’s an illegitimate point to make.”

This is my favorite one – a straight-up denial of reality:

And here is Trump’s press secretary lying about the President’s lies:

White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany insisted at a White House briefing Wednesday the president “never lied to the American public on COVID” but rather “was expressing calm.”

Despite Trump’s saying on the March 19 audio recording obtained by CNN that “I wanted to always play it down” and “I still like playing it down,” McEnany said: “The president never down played the virus. The president expressed calm and he was serious about this.”

Anyway, I could go on and share Fox and Friends’ defense of the President, Laura Ingraham’s, Sean Hannity’s, etc., but you pretty much almost always know what they’re going to say before they say it…

Here’s a question I had but didn’t consider it as much as this guy (whom I don’t normally read, but I think he’s onto something in his observations):

So Trump has confirmed in his own voice that he was not self-deluded about COVID. He knew the danger – and still opted to do nothing and instead belittle the risk in public.

The question that then follows …What on earth did Trump expect to happen next?

I get the utility of the “lie your way out of it” approach to scandals and crimes.

But you can’t cover up an epidemic!

So *why* was he so passive? Action might have saved him, even the appearance of action. Instead, nothing. Why?

This question I think casts light on Trump’s habitual lying.

At some deep level of his psyche, he imagines that words can change reality.

He has no idea eg how to run a business. But if you keep saying your business is “tremendous,” bankers lend you money you need not repay.

His hotels and resorts are 2nd-tier at best. But keep insisting they are “classy” – and people who don’t know better may be duped to regard the Trump brand as somehow equivalent to Ritz-Carlton or Four Seasons.

So when a virus materialized, Trump did the only thing he knew how to do: try to talk his way out of it.

He kept promising Americans the virus “would go away” as he once kept promising creditors that the check was in the mail. Maybe something would happen to save him!

Talk, talk, talk, never stop talking, refuse to be interrupted, overwhelm your creditors/customers/wives with words … and so long as you kept talking uninterrupted, nothing too very bad could happen. Or so Trump had learned to believe.

Any true plan of action against the virus would have required Trump to cede control and attention to someone else, someone who possessed the expertise and competence Trump lacked. That course was truly radically intolerable to the narcissistic Trump.

So instead he chose the only course of action he had the know-how to execute: try to out-talk the virus.

He talked and talked and talked. He contradicted himself, he lied, he made false promises – but he ballooned himself over the landscape on a great gush of hot air. He felt safe so long as he floated up there, above the people who got sick on his watch, above the dead and dying, above the shuttered businesses, above the lost jobs, above the interrupted educations … words words words, the only thing he knows how to produce.

He surely could see the air leaking from his balloon of blather. He could feel the basket slowly losing altitude, anticipate the shock of the crash … and so he kept pumping more words, hoping if he could only stay above the tree-line until voting day, he might yet survive.

It was never a good plan. But any other plan was either intellectually impossible for Trump (do a good job) or psychically impossible (yield power and attention to someone who could do the good job Trump couldn’t). So … he yammered and trusted something would save him.

Maybe the virus would fall only on the blue states. Maybe sugar tablets would cure it. Maybe he could push enough people back to work to revive the economy without killing too many of them. Maybe Putin’s vaccine would work. Talk talk talk, never pause.

And so here we are. The trick that more or less worked through so many bankruptcies and relaunches failed to work. Almost 200,000 Americans are dead. He’s facing electoral defeat – and probably massive civil liability and criminal exposure post-defeat.

Still… all things considered, it was a pretty good run, wasn’t it? When it’s all over, what will be hard to explain will not be, “What went wrong?” but “How did such a transparent fraud dupe so many people? And how did the fraud continue even as everything crashed into ruin?”

Those are questions for the future. For now, the immediate problem is, how do we save from the wreckage a country where two-fifths of the population prefer to suffer death and disaster rather than admit a mistake?

–Dana

UPDATE BY PATTERICO: Trump says he hid the true facts about the seriousness of COVID-19 to prevent feelings of panic.

But facts don’t care about your feelings.

UPDATE #2 BY DANA: Trump defends himself when confronted about downplaying the virus:

“Why did you lie to the American people, and why should we trust what you have to say now?” ABC News correspondent Jon Karl asked during a news conference, referencing the president’s comments in audio recordings from February that COVID-19 was “deadly” even as he publicly minimized the threat of the virus.

“That’s a terrible question and the phraseology,” Trump said. “I didn’t lie. What I said is we have to be calm. We can’t be panicked.”

“The way you phrased that is such a disgrace,” Trump added. “It’s a disgrace to ABC Television Network. It’s a disgrace to your employer.”

Karl pressed Trump, noting that he told Woodward in early February that COVID-19 spread through the air and was more lethal than a “strenuous flu” even as he publicly compared the emerging outbreak to the common flu.

“What I went out and said is very simple. I want to show a level of confidence, and I want to show strength as a leader and I want to show our country is going to be fine one way or the other,” Trump said. “There was no lie here. What we’re doing is we’re leading, and we’re leading in a proper way.”

179 Responses to “GOP Circle The Wagons To Defend Trump (UPDATE ADDED)”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (292df6)

  2. UPDATE BY PATTERICO: Trump says he hid the true facts about the seriousness of COVID-19 to prevent feelings of panic.

    But facts don’t care about your feelings.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  3. And good morning to you!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  4. During an interview on Fox News on Wednesday, Dr. Fauci disputed the notion that Trump ever downplayed the coronavirus. According to Fauci, Trump’s public statements were no different than sentiments expressed during White House Task Force meetings.

    “In my discussions and the discussions of other task force members with the president, we were talking about the reality of what was going on, and then we would get up in front of the press conferences … he really didn’t say anything different than we discussed when we were with him.”

    “I didn’t really see any discrepancies between what he told us and what we told him in what he ultimately came out publicly and said.”

    “Did you get a sense that [President Trump] was or wasn’t playing this down?” Fox News’ John Roberts asked.

    “No, no, I didn’t. I didn’t get any sense that he was distorting anything,” Fauci replied. “In my discussions with him, they were always straightforward about the concerns that we had. We related that to him. When he would go out, I’d hear him discussing the same sort of things.”

    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/09/09/dr-fauci-defends-president-trump-from-woodward-attack-says-trump-told-public-the-reality-of-what-was-going-on-n911707

    __ _

    harkin (cd4502)

  5. But facts don’t care about your feelings.

    CV19 doesn’t care about your feelings either.
    Almost every day, I wake up and wonder why and how a fraud like Trump has convinced millions to his point of view. We are in Bizarro TrumpWorld. Maybe this election will get us out, but maybe not. The battleground-state margins are too close for comfort.

    Paul Montagu (ad6b35)

  6. Great post, Dana.

    nk (1d9030)

  7. Trump says he hid the true facts about the seriousness of COVID-19 to prevent feelings of panic.

    Which apparently didn’t work, given the panic buying of food, paper towels, guns, and toilet paper. A rational President would have conducted FDR-type fireside chat speeches, laying out what science knows/doesn’t know, and what measures would be taken.

    You can’t handle the truth!-Col. Nathan Jessup (Jack Nicholson) in A Few Good Men

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  8. Good analysis of this administration’s “wall of talk” approach to every issue.

    John B Boddie (bd03e4)

  9. Regarding Fauci, he guardrailed his comments to personal observances of Trump in meetings and briefings. Trump rarely attended task force meetings, and Fauci was not invited to a number of briefings.
    Fauci wasn’t in the room when Trump said that anyone who wants a test, gets a test.
    Fauci wasn’t in the room when Trump said, “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China.”
    Fauci wasn’t in the room when Trump said, “Well we pretty much shut it down coming in from China…Getting along with China. Getting along with Russia.” That was on Hannity.
    Fauci wasn’t in the room when Trump said, “A lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat—as the heat comes in.”
    I could go on.

    Paul Montagu (ad6b35)

  10. Excerpts from Woodward’s book, cherry-picked by the partisan press, don’t convince me of anything. It was possible on Feb 1 to think that 1) Covid-19 was a bad thing and 2) that Americans did not need to worry. That’s what WHO and the Chinese were saying. I am not going to jump to conclusions based on snippets chose by people with an axe to grind. I understand that folks here are reading this through partisan lenses but I urge you to read the book first. Some of this will prove to be distorted or out of context.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  11. Paul now throws Fauci under the bus. Interesting parallel to Trumpist treatment of former aides.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  12. Paul, The “Trump never downplayed the virus” Defense as highlighted in Harkin’s link, is a strange one, since he clearly did and admitted it on tape.

    Fauci chooses his words very carefully and doesn’t over explain himself when doing so would be bad for him.

    Some people I’ve worked with will answer you question honestly, and assume you asked what you wanted to know. I think Fauci is a bit like that, but at his level he knows that’s not all there is to communication.

    Time123 (457a1d)

  13. Paul now throws Fauci under the bus.

    Except I didn’t. Fauci is very precise in what he says. I just wish Trump’s adoring defenders can realize the same thing.

    Paul Montagu (ad6b35)

  14. Excerpts from Woodward’s book, cherry-picked by the partisan press, don’t convince me of anything. It was possible on Feb 1 to think that 1) Covid-19 was a bad thing and 2) that Americans did not need to worry. That’s what WHO and the Chinese were saying. I am not going to jump to conclusions based on snippets chose by people with an axe to grind. I understand that folks here are reading this through partisan lenses but I urge you to read the book first. Some of this will prove to be distorted or out of context.

    Because you love Trump and hate the libs? It looks like you’ll twist yourself into a pretzel to find a way to conclude that he wasn’t saying what he clearly said, even when what he clearly said lines up with what everyone saw him doing. You’re really smart, but I just don’t get your take on this.

    Time123 (457a1d)

  15. @4, 9:
    More about Fauci and Trump:
    Did Fauci endorse hydroxychloroquine, like Trump has?
    Did Fauci endorse taking bleach or other disinfectants internally as a cure? (Trump later claimed he was trolling reporters, but some people took him seriously).
    Has Fauci trolled reporters, like Trump has?
    Did Fauci promote Pepcid as a COVID-19 cure?
    Did Fauci promote internal use ultraviolet light as a COVID-19 cure?
    I could go on and on and on and on……

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  16. All the President’s Lies About the Coronavirus

    Through August 31st.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  17. Off-topic: Homeless shelters in Los Angeles cost far more than expected.

    The average cost of building a single unit of housing for the homeless in Los Angeles has risen to $531,000, according to an audit from the city controller, who recommends that L.A. rehab motels and open dormitory-style buildings to save money and get people off the streets quickly.

    Controller Ron Galperin, in a report due Wednesday, also cited two projects whose costs soared to nearly $750,0000 per unit and assailed delays that he said have driven city-funded homeless construction expenses up from initial projections of $350,000 a unit.

    I will point out that you could buy two 2000sf houses in NM for $531K. I suspect that L.A. apartments don’t cost $531K to build. There’s a lot of graft and/or special dealing (e.g. $700 faucets from Cousin Phil) going on here. I doubt anyone will call them on it though.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  18. The first 2 paragraphs should have been quoted in the above

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  19. It looks like you’ll twist yourself into a pretzel

    It’s long past time that someone invented the word bepretzel (verb, tr.).

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  20. It’s as if Trump defenders can’t conceive of any public relations approach somewhere between false assurances and wild eyed panic, even though most other leaders in most other countries managed.

    But I guess we really are an exceptional country. Simple clear honest messages don’t work that well.

    Victor (661f31)

  21. “ Simple clear honest messages don’t work that well.”
    __

    Lots of people gave up on clear honest messages when actual doctors declared white supremacy dangerous enough to abandon social distancing and the Dems and media jumped on the bandwagon.
    __

    harkin (cd4502)

  22. So Trump has confirmed in his own voice that he was not self-deluded about COVID. He knew the danger

    He said that in March.

    And they didn’t believe him.

    https://apnews.com/dbddbcf6cb4b17420e4a08820b73d4be

    AP FACT CHECK: Trump says he always knew virus was pandemic

    WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump is revising history as to how he described the dangers of the coronavirus as it swept across China and showed early signs in the U.S.

    “I’ve felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic,” Trump insisted last week, adopting a newly somber tone about the crisis enveloping the globe as he urged Americans to work from home and prodded the nation’s cities and states to issue restrictions to promote social distancing. “I’ve always viewed it as very serious.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/us/politics/trump-coronavirus.html

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  23. Of course, as I am reminded, nobody, but nobody except Trump is responsible for the hydroxychloroquine nonsense. But conflating true criticisms with unverified ones is counterproductive.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  24. Note: I think there may be a problem with any coronavirus vaccine. They are looking for a too strong immune response, and that creates problems. Astra Zenica stopped a trial on Tuesday.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  25. But facts don’t care about your feelings.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 9/10/2020 @ 8:29 am

    You wanna go there?

    Okay… let’s go.

    “Downplaying” didn’t mean Trump didn’t take COVID seriously.

    “Downplaying” was to keep things calm to reduce the sense of panic. Anyone arguing otherwise is simply gaslighting or at worst, being a hack simply because of Orange Man Bad.

    Here’s some facts(via https://twitter.com/rustyweiss74):

    While media rewrites history because of the Bob Woodward tapes, claiming @realDonaldTrump ‘knew and did nothing’ to protect Americans, reality says otherwise.

    Here is a timeline of actions taken by the President despite him downplaying it in public statements to quell panic.

    January 3: CDC Director Robert Redfield sent an email to the director of the Chinese CDC, George Gao, formally offering to send U.S. experts to China to investigate the coronavirus.

    January 5: CDC Director Redfield sent another email to the Chinese CDC Director, George Gao, formally offering to send U.S. experts to China to investigate the coronavirus outbreak,

    January 6: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued a level I travel notice for Wuhan, China due to the spreading coronavirus.

    January 7: The CDC established a coronavirus incident management system to better share and respond to information about the virus.

    January 11: The CDC updated a Level 1 travel health notice for Wuhan, China.

    January 17: The CDC began implementing public health entry screening at the 3 U.S. airports that received the most travelers from Wuhan – San Francisco, New York JFK, and Los Angeles.

    January 20: Dr. Fauci announces the National Institutes of Health is already working on the development of a vaccine for the coronavirus.

    January 21: The CDC activated its emergency operations center to provide ongoing support to the coronavirus response.

    January 23: The CDC sought a “special emergency authorization” from the FDA to allow states to use its newly developed coronavirus test.

    January 27: President Trump tweeted that he made an offer to President Xi Jinping to send experts to China to investigate the coronavirus outbreak.

    January 27: The CDC issued a level III travel health notice urging Americans to avoid all nonessential travel to China due to the coronavirus.

    January 27: The White House Coronavirus Task Force started meeting to help monitor and contain the spread of the virus and provide updates to the President.

    January 29: The White House announced the formation of the Coronavirus Task Force to help monitor and contain the spread of the virus and provide updates to the President.

    January 31: The Trump Administration:

    – Declared the coronavirus a public health emergency.

    – Announced Chinese travel restrictions.

    – Suspended entry into the United States for foreign nationals who pose a risk of transmitting the coronavirus.

    January 31: The Department of Homeland Security took critical steps to funnel all flights from China into just 7 domestic U.S. airports.
    What had Democrats done at this point?

    Impeachment.

    February 2: The CDC expanded enhanced entry screening to eight major airports across the nation.

    February 3: The CDC had a team ready to travel to China to obtain critical information on the novel coronavirus, but were in the U.S. awaiting permission to enter by the Chinese government.

    February 4: President Trump vowed in his State of the Union Address to “take all necessary steps” to protect Americans from the coronavirus.

    February 5: The Trump Administration and health officials briefed lawmakers on the Federal Government’s coronavirus response efforts.

    February 6: The CDC began shipping CDC-Developed test kits for the 2019 Novel Coronavirus to U.S. and international labs.

    February 7: President Trump told reporters that the CDC is working with China on the coronavirus.
    Feb. 7 is the day that Trump told Woodward that the coronavirus is “more deadly than your, you know, your — even your strenuous flus.”

    He knows it’s a serious issue, and he’s already done quite a bit to protect the American people.

    February 9: The White House Coronavirus Task Force briefed governors from across the nation at the National Governors’ Association Meeting in Washington.

    February 11: The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) expanded a partnership with Janssen Research & Development to “expedite the development” of a coronavirus vaccine.

    February 12: The U.S. shipped test kits for the 2019 novel coronavirus to approximately 30 countries who lacked the necessary reagents and other materials.

    Also February 12: The CDC was prepared to travel to China but had yet to receive permission from the Chinese government.

    February 14: The CDC began working with five labs to conduct “community-based influenza surveillance” to study and detect the spread of coronavirus.

    February 18: HHS announced it would engage with Sanofi Pasteur in an effort to quickly develop a coronavirus vaccine and to develop treatment for coronavirus infections.

    February 22: A WHO team of international experts arrives in Wuhan, China.
    February 24: The Trump Administration sent a letter to Congress requesting at least $2.5 billion to help combat the spread of the coronavirus.

    Incidentally, this is the same day @SpeakerPelosi was telling constituents to come down to Chinatown.

    Nancy Pelosi Visits San Francisco’s Chinatown Amid Coronavirus Concerns
    Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi toured San Francisco’s Chinatown Monday to send a message. She said there’s no reason tourists or locals should be staying away from the area because of coronavirus c…
    https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/nancy-pelosi-visits-san-franciscos-chinatown/2240247/

    Febraury 25: HHS Secretary Azar testified before the Senate HELP committee on the Administration’s coronavirus response efforts.

    February 26: President Trump discussed coronavirus containment efforts with Indian PM Modi and updated the press on his Administration’s containment efforts in the U.S. during his state visit to India.

    February 29: The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) allowed certified labs to develop and begin testing coronavirus testing kits while reviewing pending applications.

    February 29: The Trump Administration:

    – Announced a level 4 travel advisory to areas of Italy and South Korea.

    – Barred all travel to Iran.

    – Barred the entry of foreign citizens who visited Iran in the last 14 days.

    March 3: The CDC lifted federal restrictions on coronavirus testing to allow any American to be tested for coronavirus, “subject to doctor’s orders.”

    March 3: The White House announced President Trump donated his fourth-quarter salary to fight the coronavirus.
    This was the day after @NYCMayor told New Yorkers to go to the movies, even offering recommendations.

    NY had it’s first confirmed case of COVID on the same day de Blasio told people to hit theaters.

    March 4: The Trump Administration announced the purchase of approximately 500 million N95 respirators over the next 18 months to respond to the outbreak of the novel coronavirus.

    March 4: Secretary Azar announced that HHS was transferring $35 million to the CDC to help state and local communities that have been impacted most by the coronavirus.

    March 6: President Trump signed an $8.3 billion bill to fight the coronavirus outbreak.

    The bill provides $7.76 billion to federal, state, & local agencies to combat the coronavirus and authorizes an additional $500 million in waivers for Medicare telehealth restrictions.

    March 9: President Trump called on Congress to pass a payroll tax cut over coronavirus.

    March 10: President Trump and VP Pence met with top health insurance companies and secured a commitment to waive co-pays for coronavirus testing.

    March 11: President Trump:

    – Announced travel restrictions on foreigners who had visited Europe in the last 14 days.

    – Directed the SBA to issue low-interest loans to affected small businesses and called on congress to increase this fund by $50 billion.

    Also March 11:

    – Directed the Treasury Department to defer tax payments for affected individuals & businesses, & provide $200 billion in “additional liquidity.”

    – Met with American bankers at the White House to discuss coronavirus.

    March 13: President Trump declared a national emergency in order to access $42 billion in existing funds to combat the coronavirus.

    March 13: President Trump announced:

    Public-private partnerships to open up drive-through testing collection sites.

    A pause on interest payments on federal student loans.

    An order to the Department of Energy to purchase oil for the strategic petroleum reserve.

    March 13: The Food & Drug Administration:

    – Granted Roche AG an emergency approval for automated coronavirus testing kits.

    – Issued an emergency approval to Thermo Fisher for a coronavirus test within 24 hours of receiving the request.

    March 13: HHS announced funding for the development of two new rapid diagnostic tests, which would be able to detect coronavirus in approximately 1 hour.

    March 14: The Coronavirus Relief Bill passed the House of Representatives.

    March 14: The Trump Administration announced the European travel ban will extend to the UK and Ireland.

    March 15: President Trump held a phone call with over two dozen grocery store executives to discuss on-going demand for food and other supplies.

    March 15: HHS announced it is projected to have 1.9 million COVID-19 tests available in 2,000 labs this week.

    March 15: Google announced a partnership with the Trump Administration to develop a website dedicated to coronavirus education, prevention, & local resources.

    March 15: All 50 states were contacted through FEMA to coordinate “federally-supported, state-led efforts” to end coronavirus.

    March 16: President Trump:

    – Held a tele-conference with governors to discuss coronavirus preparedness and response.

    – Participated in a call with G7 leaders who committed to increasing coordination in response to the coronavirus and restoring global economic confidence.

    Also March 16 –

    – Announced that the first potential vaccine for coronavirus has entered a phase one trial in a record amount of time.

    – Announced “15 days to slow the spread” coronavirus guidance.

    March 16: The FDA announced it was empowering states to authorize tests developed and used by labs in their states.

    March 16: Asst. Secretary for Health confirmed the availability of 1 million coronavirus tests, and projected 2 million tests available the next week and 5 million the following.

    March 17: President Trump announced:

    CMS will expand telehealth benefits for Medicare beneficiaries.

    Relevant Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act penalties will not be enforced.

    The Army Corps of Engineers is on ”standby” to assist federal, state governments.

    March 17: President Trump spoke to fast food executives from Wendy’s, McDonald’s and Burger King to discuss drive-thru services recommended by CDC

    March 17: President Trump met with tourism industry representatives along with industrial supply, retail, and wholesale representatives.

    March 17: Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin met with lawmakers to discuss stimulus measures to relieve the economic burden of coronavirus on certain industries, businesses, and American workers.

    March 17: Secretary of Agriculture Sonny Perdue announced a partnership between USDA, Baylor University, McLane Global, and Pepsi Co. to provide one million meals per weak to rural children in response to widespread school closures.

    March 17: Treasury Department:

    Contributed $10 billion through economic stabilization fund to the Federal Reserve’s commercial paper funding facility.

    Deferred $300 billion in tax payments for 90 days without penalty, up to $1 million for individuals, $10 million for business.

    March 17: The Department of Defense announced it will make available to HHS up to five million respirator masks and 2,000 ventilators.

    March 18: President Trump signed the Families First Coronavirus Response Act, which provides free testing and paid sick leave for workers impacted by the coronavirus.

    March 18: President Trump announced:

    Temporary closure of the U.S.-Canada border to non-essential traffic.

    Plans to invoke the Defense Production Act in order to increase the number of necessary supplies needed to combat coronavirus.
    FEMA has been activated in every region at its highest level of response.

    The U.S. Navy will deploy USNS Comfort and USNS Mercy hospital ships.

    All foreclosures and evictions will be suspended for a period of time.

    March 18: Secretary of Defense Mark Esper confirmed:

    1 million masks are now immediately available.

    The Army Corps of Engineers is in NY consulting on how to best assist state officials.

    March 18: HHS temporarily suspended a regulation that prevents doctors from practicing across state lines.

    March 18: President Trump spoke to:

    Doctors, physicians, and nurses on the front lines containing the spread of coronavirus.

    130 CEOs of the Business Roundtable to discuss on-going public-private partnerships in response to the coronavirus pandemic.

    March 19: President Trump announced:

    Very encouraging progress shown by anti-malaria drug Hydroxychloroquine for fighting coronavirus.

    Carnival Cruise Lines will make ships available for use as hospitals in impacted areas to use for non-coronavirus patients.

    March 19: Vice President Pence announced tens of thousands of ventilators have been identified that can be converted to treat patients.

    March 19: The State Department issued a global level 4 health advisory, telling Americans to avoid all international travel due to coronavirus.

    March 19: President Trump directed FEMA to take the lead on the Federal Government’s coronavirus response & visited FEMA HQ with Vice President Pence for a video call with Governors.
    March 19th was the day that @realDonaldTrump told Woodward:

    “I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down. Because I don’t want to create a panic.”
    The point here is, @realDonaldTrump separated his actions from his words. He calmed the public over pandemic fears while taking a massive list of actions.

    This list can be found here:

    TIMELINE: The Trump Administration’s Decisive Actions To Combat the Coronavirus
    The Trump Administration took critical action early on to combat the coronavirus and keep Americans safe.
    https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/timeline-the-trump-administrations-decisive-actions-to-

    A lot of people, from pundits to scientists to politicians got this virus wrong from the beginning.

    Hence why its classified as a NOVEL virus… we were learning as we went, and adapting as we understood the virus.

    I’d argue that not a single thing would have been done differently from a functional perspective than what happened.

    You just don’t like Trump or his rhetoric.

    But in terms of what the government ACTUALLY did, there’s nothing that would have been done differently.

    whembly (c30c83)

  26. @27 actually, I take that back. Nothing would’ve been done different once the government was engaged.

    The Obama administration’s handling of the swine flu was near non-existent.

    whembly (c30c83)

  27. Trump reveals existence of super secret nuclear weapons system ‘even Putin doesn’t know about’ a claim that Woodward said he confirmed with sources.

    Your black hole tax dollars at work.

    Bastards. God bless President Trump for the tell! Tell the people who pay the bills more!

    “Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you *keep* it a *secret*! Why didn’t you tell the world, EH?” – Dr. Strangelove [Peter Sellers] ‘Dr. Strangelove’ 1964

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. There was a lot more lying going on about dangers in the Truman and Eisenhower adminisrations.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  29. A lot of people, from pundits to scientists to politicians got this virus wrong from the beginning.

    Hence why its classified as a NOVEL virus… we were learning as we went, and adapting as we understood the virus.

    I’d argue that not a single thing would have been done differently from a functional perspective than what happened.

    You just don’t like Trump or his rhetoric.

    But in terms of what the government ACTUALLY did, there’s nothing that would have been done differently.

    whembly (c30c83) — 9/10/2020 @ 10:02 am

    We didn’t test people coming from areas with CV.
    we didn’t develop an effective testing plan.
    We didn’t ask for QT for people comeing from areas with CV.
    We didn’t set up contact tracing for people coming from areas with CV.
    We didn’t plan and communicate the end of travel from Europe.
    We created national guidelines for a shutdown, but Trump backed away from them.

    Trump and his admin just didn’t do much. You can put his actions into a long and somewhat silly list to make it look like we did things. (Payroll Tax Cut? Travel Ban from Iran?) But and the end of the day results speak for themselves.

    -We had panic
    -We had a disjointed response across the nation
    -We didn’t have a unified resource plan for too long.
    -We have one of the highest deaths per-capita, and cases per-captita of any nation

    If you look at results, Trump Failed.
    If you look at actions it’s easy to see how.
    If you look at the man it’s easy to see why.

    Time123 (235fc4)

  30. His silly list is dumber than I thought

    Plans to invoke the Defense Production Act in order to increase the number of necessary supplies needed to combat coronavirus.

    Plans? They didn’t do it, they just made a power point about it.

    Time123 (235fc4)

  31. Obama did a reasonably good job with the swine flu,

    https://www.propublica.org/article/no-president-trump-the-coronavirus-is-nothing-like-h1n1-swine-flu-either

    Trump defenders efforts to claim otherwise is simple gaslighting.

    And why exactly was it a problem for Pelosi to suggest that going to American Chinatowns, full of American citizens was a problem. Is the claim now that parts of U.S. cities were full of infected people at the time? Shouldn’t Trump have done something about it?

    Or is the theory that the virus is somehow only a problem for people of Chinese descent, so let’s not worry, after our mostly ineffective China travel restrictions, on people coming from Europe.

    Victor (661f31)

  32. 4.

    “I didn’t really see any discrepancies between what he told us [the public] and what we told him in what he ultimately came out publicly and said.”

    Except that Trump knew better than the experts. He suspected they were wrong, or too slow to call out what it was, and it would spread.

    In fact, in one of his early statements, he said we were lucky.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  33. ““Downplaying” was to keep things calm to reduce the sense of panic. Anyone arguing otherwise is simply gaslighting or at worst, being a hack simply because of Orange Man Bad.”

    Trump is lying when he says he was downplaying to reduce panic. He was downplaying because he didn’t want something making him look bad.

    Davethulhu (4c5c2a)

  34. 4. The problem with Faauci;s defense of Trump – that Trump never said anything that hadn”t been said to him – is that Trump knew better than the experts. He said so himself – he always knew – that is before others – that it was pandemic. And Woodward has him on tape proving he knew better than the experts. And we can see it n an early quote:

    From the New York Times article in MArch that attempts to prove that Trump was lying about knowing early:

    On Feb. 26, at a White House news conference, commenting on the country’s first reported cases: “We’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time. So we’ve had very good luck.”

    Trump calls the United States lucky.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  35. He was downplaying because he didn’t want something making him look bad.

    It’s weird that so many people insist on ignoring that fundamental fact about Donald Trump, even though he frequently reminds us how much importance he places on getting praise and adoration.

    Also, the people who had a habit of saying “What matters is results” have now largely resorted to “He tried his best. Give him a break!”

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  36. was he saying anything different, while you all had the impeachment bone in your teeth, have we heard from romney, sasse, who missed the fisa debrief,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  37. LOL, Carter Page the patriot who passed information to known and later convicted Russian spies, in hopes of getting a lucrative oil deal.

    Dave (1bb933)

  38. @ Kevin M,

    Excerpts from Woodward’s book, cherry-picked by the partisan press, don’t convince me of anything

    It really doesn’t matter if they were “cherry picked” or not. The fact is, he made the comments and later confirmed that he said them.

    Dana (292df6)

  39. Someone should do a chart showing what COVID deaths would have looked like had Gov. Cuomo (D) had not turned NY nursing homes into COVID death camps.

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9)

  40. LOL, Carter Page the patriot who passed information to known and later convicted Russian spies,

    Man, I bet the FBI got the goods on Page with all the FISAs they had on him. Wait…they found nothing? Who knew?

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9)

  41. Good morning, Dana. Or good afternoon, depending on the time zone. If it is a good morning, or afternoon, which I doubt.

    So, it’s the blame game now, is it?

    https://hotair.com/archives/allahpundit/2020/09/10/tucker-carlson-lets-face-woodward-book-fiasco-sort-lindsey-grahams-fault/

    Of course it is. Who green lighted Trump interviewing with Woodward? Trump did. It’s that simple. Trump did, because his narcissism is so pathological he thinks he can talk his way out of anything. Only this time, he talked himself into something, and it isn’t pretty. Now all his sycophants, butt gerbils all, are in a rage. Pointing fingers, naming names, blaming everyone, anyone other than Trump. It is truly pathetic.

    In Greek there is a saying, carpe diem, seize the day. That is what leaders do in a crisis. That is what Churchill did in WW II, when the Nazis were bombarding London. He spoke the truth, made the British people resolute and indefatigable, and ultimately they not only survived but won the war. Along with the help of Eisenhower, of course. The one quote I remember most from Churchill is, “The American people will always do the right thing, after they have exhausted all other alternatives.”

    Trump had the opportunity to seize the day. He could have easily quelled this pandemic, by informing the American people of the threat they were facing, made them resolute and indefatigable, came up with a national plan, thwarted the infection. The American people would have followed him then. Instead, he held rallies and played golf, and lied.

    The result is 200,000 dead. The United States now leads the world in infections, hospitalizations and deaths. Other world leaders quelled the disease in their nations, but not Trump. Why?

    It’s almost as if he wants to kill America. Millions infected, a thousand dying every day, businesses shuttered, schools closed, economic collapse, civil turmoil, protests, riots, vandalism, arson, murder on the streets. It’s horrific.

    And his response is to have a para-military force use force, shield, batons, pepper spray, and yes tear gas, to clear a path so he can awkwardly hold up a Bible, upside down and backwards, in front of a church?

    This is your “law and order” president. People are dying, from a disease that could have been prevented. Businesses are being closed, never to be reopened; jobs are being lost. Schools are being shut down, quarantined. The American people are suffering greatly.

    And all he can think about is holding a rally?

    At some point, the American people must come to a realization that this idiot is unfit for office. And he should be prosecuted for multiple crimes once he leaves office.

    But that’s the ticket, isn’t it? Waiting for the statute of limitations to run out. His cultists will defend him all the way, until the final day.

    Shame on them.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  42. If the question is who I’m going going to believe, the Trump administration or my own lyin’ eyes, I have to go with my eyes, not the Deceiver-In-Chief.

    @27 I notice that you skipped all the “Trump spreads disinformation about Covid19” incidents in your line up, which is, after all, the actual thing we are talking about.

    You know who actually told us what we needed to know? Other people. You know who took most of the direct actions to stop the spread of the virus? Governors.

    @38 Are you saying that the President of the United States had to choose between focusing on an issue that would effect the lives of millions of people vs one that was about saving his single individual skin, and he chose to focus on saving himself? No! He would do such a thing?! Oh my goodness!

    @40 Alexander Vindman. An actual patriot. Who got run over by the Trump administration.

    Nic (896fdf)

  43. OK, yeah, 200k dead, Trump lied about Covid so some number of those >0 fall directly at his feet. Cool.

    But also this week…

    There’s a whistleblower complaint against Chad and Ken (really?) pushing for the DHS domestic threat assessments and analysts to change their findings to support Trump’s rhetoric. Fine, fine, it’s not like Trump would lie about something knowingly for effect…he said forgetting the Covid thing above.

    The Treasury department just sanctioned Rudytooti’s Ukrainian pal for election interference in 2019 and 2020 for the things he was doing with Rudytooti, Ron Johnson, and Devin Nunes. Things the Treasury specifically says are conspiracy delusion malarkey. Johnson and Nunes are still trying to use it to drum up some sort of congressional investigation on a Biden, any Biden…that the Trump Treasury department has already said is tofurkey bologna.

    Trump was bragging to Woodward about a new nuclear weapons system that is so “powerful” and “no one has ever seen before” that was so classified people would be put under the jail if they’d breathed a word about it. Wait, it’s fine, fine, Trump can declassify anything for any reason, his reason, he wanted to brag. Just because it isn’t illegal doesn’t make it stupid.

    That’s what came out this week that isn’t the other scandal that would have been administration ending for anyone else. It’s Thursday on a holiday shortened week.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  44. “Downplaying” didn’t mean Trump didn’t take COVID seriously.

    Yeah, it did, whembley. Your timeline shows very little of what Trump actually did. Bottom line, if he had taken it seriously, he would’ve lit a fire under CDC/FDA to fast-track testing. Instead, he was reticent about testing from the get-go because the numbers could make him look bad.

    Paul Montagu (ad6b35)

  45. Paul, who said that testing would make him look bad? I’m sure whoever said that is definitely an idiot, whoever it could be. Seriously, whoever could it be?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  46. Someone should do a chart showing what COVID deaths would have looked like had Gov. Cuomo (D) had not turned NY nursing homes into COVID death camps.

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9) — 9/10/2020 @ 10:55 am

    OK

    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

    US is 62.69 deaths per 100K
    Florida is slightly better than US average at 55 deaths per 100K

    It would still be one of the worse performances in the world

    Time123 (457a1d)

  47. @48

    “Downplaying” didn’t mean Trump didn’t take COVID seriously.

    Yeah, it did, whembley. Your timeline shows very little of what Trump actually did. Bottom line, if he had taken it seriously, he would’ve lit a fire under CDC/FDA to fast-track testing.

    IT. WAS. A. NOVEL. VIRUS.

    NO ONE KNEW EVERYTHING AT THE TIME.

    You’re engaging in a hackish Monday Morning Quarterbacking heavily here.

    …add to the fact that we had to deal with the disinformation from China and the incompetency of the WHO organization.

    Instead, he was reticent about testing from the get-go because the numbers could make him look bad.

    Paul Montagu (ad6b35) — 9/10/2020 @ 11:23 am

    The impeachment hearing was happening at the same time. If he was so callous as you seem to believe, he could’ve gone berserk, like he normally does, to drive down the news impact of the impeachment hearings. Instead, he literally formed that task force and took action based on their recommendations.

    I’m not saying Trump’s and his administration response was perfect…. far from it actually.

    But to say that the CDC/FDA wasn’t engaged at the start is gaslighting, or at worst, wantonly lying.

    whembly (c30c83)

  48. @50

    OK

    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

    US is 62.69 deaths per 100K
    Florida is slightly better than US average at 55 deaths per 100K

    It would still be one of the worse performances in the world

    Time123 (457a1d) — 9/10/2020 @ 11:31 am

    Speaking of deaths per 100k:

    If the US had the death rate of NY/NJ we’d be at half a million. Instead the rest of the US looks like this
    https://twitter.com/IAmTheActualET/status/1302997259492229120

    And the NY vacancies of nursing home is pretty damning:
    https://www.empirecenter.org/publications/nursing-home-vacancy-rate-soars-hinting-at-a-higher-coronavirus-toll/

    whembly (c30c83)

  49. I’m so glad the NFL is starting up today. Three hours of non-political (I hope) football-watching bliss.

    Paul Montagu (ad6b35)

  50. Blame all 32k deaths in NY on Cuomo, the Federal government had zero responsibility…and?

    That leaves 160k others, so far. Cuomo made changes, but fine.

    Here’s the thing, don’t vote for Cuomo for president, is he running, I don’t know. Did Cuomo say he had no responsibility? No, actually he said it was his responsibility, good, don’t vote for him.

    Who said he had no responsibility? You seem to think that you’re defending Trump, but you’re making him look worse, not better.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  51. NO ONE KNEW EVERYTHING AT THE TIME.

    I agree, but it’s no excuse screw up testing for so long. Trump did nothing in that regard, hardly took a meeting from Azar, and the buck stops you know where. This is on his watch.
    His attitude about testing was pretty obvious when he refused to allow cruise ship passengers onto shore because the numbers would make him look bad, which is beyond selfish and self-serving.
    Also, I don’t accept the impeachment excuse. Presidents should be able to multi-task, and his lawyers did the heavy lifting. All Trump was doing at the time was watching FoxNews and tweeting up a storm during his extended “executive time”.

    Paul Montagu (ad6b35)

  52. NO ONE KNEW EVERYTHING AT THE TIME.

    Do we know more now? How has Trump’s rhetoric changed? He still pushing for less testing, he’s still pushing to get people to do less social distancing, he’s still pushing for less mask wearing. He’s still primarily planning for a magic cure to pop up…magically.

    He has learned nothing, magic isn’t a plan, Harry Potter will not save anyone. Do you know why? Think on it and get back to me.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  53. @51 The Woodward book is talking about what Trump did know at the time, and what Trump knew doesn’t match what he was telling us.

    Nic (896fdf)

  54. Gee, Paul:

    Woodward knew; Bob Woodward is responsible for ‘the deaths of tens of thousands of your fellow citizens.’

    He sat on the information until now- just weeks before the general- to sell books.

    Reaganomics. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  55. @42. ‘It really doesn’t matter if they were “cherry picked” or not.’

    OMG! Dana channeling Hillary Clinton– amidst a pandemic? 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  56. IT. WAS. A. NOVEL. VIRUS.

    NO ONE KNEW EVERYTHING AT THE TIME.

    You’re engaging in a hackish Monday Morning Quarterbacking heavily here.

    …add to the fact that we had to deal with the disinformation from China and the incompetency of the WHO organization.

    We knew we needed testing.
    We knew we needed a contact tracing process.
    We knew we needed guidelines on how to respond.

    Trump’s admin failed to deliver all three of those things.

    Also, Trump was part of the team selling that Chinese disinformation.

    Time123 (457a1d)

  57. What exactly was Trump doing during his impeachment, other than obsessively watching t.v., that would detract from his ability to deal with the virus?

    And again, do the Trump defenders see any middle ground between hysterical panic and lying? How does it reduce panic if the country gets the increasing sense it’s being lied to for the political benefit of the president?

    Victor (661f31)

  58. We knew we needed testing. We knew we needed a contact tracing process.We knew we needed guidelines on how to respond. Trump’s admin failed to deliver all three of those things.

    Bob Woodward knew.

    And Woodward failed to report the American people– just to make a sensational buck- like a good, honest, fair and balanced jpournalist should. He didn’t like Nixon; he concludes his latest book opposing Trump.

    “Woodstein!” – Ben Bradlee [Jason Robards] ‘All The President’s Men’ 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  59. And Woodward failed to report the American people– just to make a sensational buck- like a good, honest, fair and balanced jpournalist should. He didn’t like Nixon; he concludes his latest book opposing Trump.

    Then by all means, impeach Woodward, don’t vote for him for president. Is that an option?

    What point are you trying to make exactly? Be specific.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  60. Here’s a snapshot of Trump’s mentality on testing as of March 6, 2020:

    Q I guess the critics say that: Why wait until the testing issue became a crisis before dealing with it? If you want to change the regulations, want to change them — either when you took office or when you first learned of the virus in January. For example, South Korea really got their act together right away. That’s what they said.
    THE PRESIDENT: Well, you know, when you say “take office,” we just learned about this a very short while ago.
    Q Sure, or when you learned about the virus —
    THE PRESIDENT: I know, but we’re not going to be thinking — I’m thinking about a lot of other things too, like trade and millions of other things. I mean, we are doing some job with the economy. So I’m not thinking about this.

    A president who took the virus seriously would’ve been “thinking about this”.

    Paul Montagu (ad6b35)

  61. @63. Is it really that hard for you to grasp?

    Tomorrow: Woodward reveals Trump eats peas with a knife…. and worse, drinks whole milk, not skim, from the carton!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. Woodward knew; Bob Woodward is responsible for ‘the deaths of tens of thousands of your fellow citizens.’

    That’s some stellar logic, DCSCA, and it’s a two-fer, you resorting to that stupid blame-the-messenger schtick.
    Questions: Which branch of government is Woodward in? What police power does he have? Which departments was in charge of for dealing with CV19?

    Paul Montagu (ad6b35)

  63. Another fun example of the shining example our president sets for us, his clear refusal to collaborate with evil and his unwavering support of religion:

    “He will always say that he didn’t do it,” Trump said of MBS [Mohammed Bin Salman, Saudi leader]. “He says that to everybody, and frankly I’m happy that he says that. But he will say that to you, he will say that to Congress, and he will say that to everybody. He’s never said he did it.”

    “Do you believe that he did it?” Woodward asked.

    “No, he says that he didn’t do it,” Trump replied.

    “I know, but do you really believe —” Woodward began before Trump cut him off.

    “He says very strongly that he didn’t do it. Bob, they spent $400 billion over a fairly short period of time,” the president said. “And you know, they’re in the Middle East. You know, they’re big. Because of their religious monuments, you know, they have the real power. They have the oil, but they also have the great monuments for religion. You know that, right? For that religion.”

    https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/trump-woodward-i-saved-his-ass-mbs-khashoggi-rage-2020-9?utmSource=twitter&utmContent=referral&utmTerm=topbar&referrer=twitter

    The 400 billion # is of course a lie.

    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/oct/23/donald-trump/donald-trump-touts-nonexistent-450-billion-saudi-o/

    Victor (661f31)

  64. @66. Stellar, indeed; actually, Paul, the phrase in ‘quotes’ is yours- from another thread.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  65. And you know, they’re in the Middle East. You know, they’re big. Because of their religious monuments, you know, they have the real power. They have the oil, but they also have the great monuments for religion. You know that, right? For that religion.

    I listened to it, I read it, what on earth is this supposed to mean, monuments, power, or oil and power, or oily religion and power, or power, or something.

    WTF is this guy talking about, he’s either lying or incoherent, sometimes he’s lying incoherently, but he’s never coherent and truthful, how can the only moderately understandable mumblejumble always only be the lies, even if he was speaking the lord’s honest truth, how could you know?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  66. @69 It means he doesn’t care if they are lying, they have money and power and they are spending some of that money in the US. He is actually being vaguely truthful AND vaguely coherent there. I mean, it’s a vile sentiment, but it seems to be what he really thinks.

    Nic (896fdf)

  67. @66. Stellar, indeed; actually, Paul, the phrase in ‘quotes’ is yours- from another thread.

    That’s a lie. Once you change my quote, you own it. It’s yours, and you owe me an apology for stuffing your words down my throat.

    And while you’re at it, you can blame Woodward for not disclosing Trump’s giving cover to MBS for the sheik’s murder of Khashoggi.

    “I saved his ass,” Trump had said amid the US outcry following Khashoggi’s murder, the book says. “I was able to get Congress to leave him alone. I was able to get them to stop.”

    But what’s a little murder when MBS around and buys “over $400 billion” of stuff from the US. I blame Woodward.

    Paul Montagu (ad6b35)

  68. So am I to gather that you hissing Trump haters would have preferred panic? Man, I’m only beginning to understand how Pat could entertain the thought of voting for a clinically demented Democrat.

    Gryph (f63000)

  69. So am I to gather that you hissing Trump haters would have preferred panic? Man, I’m only beginning to understand how Pat could entertain the thought of voting for a clinically demented Democrat.

    Gryph (f63000) — 9/10/2020 @ 1:29 pm

    We got panic anyway.
    We just got incompetence and failure along with it.

    But if his lies can ‘own the libs’ while he loses I guess that works for you.

    Time123 (457a1d)

  70. I’m so glad the NFL is starting up today. Three hours of non-political (I hope) football-watching bliss.

    Don’t count on it.

    Sources: NFL planning extensive social injustice content for Week 1 of season

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  71. The Special Counsel staff got infected by Hillary Clinton’s “wipe it with a cloth” infection…

    https://www.justice.gov/oip/foia-library/general_topics/communications_strzok_and_page_09_04_20/download

    Anyone wanna calculate the actual probabilities of more than a dozen top Mueller officials all “accidentally” wiping their phones or accidentally putting them in airplane mode, locking them, and “forgetting” their passwords so the DOJ OIG couldn’t access and examine them?

    Anyone?

    whembly (c30c83)

  72. @43-
    Someone should do a chart showing what COVID deaths would have looked like had Gov. Cuomo (D) had not turned NY nursing homes into COVID death camps.

    Wait, wasn’t that part of the plan?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  73. Initially, Trump ignored early CDC warnings about lockdowns and later he rejected CDC guidance on reopenings. This was and is The Trump Show and, to Trump, the government is there solely to support him.

    DRJ (aede82)

  74. So am I to gather that you hissing Trump haters would have preferred panic?

    I would have preferred honesty.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  75. So am I to gather that you hissing Trump haters would have preferred panic?

    Stock market dropped almost 50%, panic buying of toilet paper and meat in the US. Canada, Europe, South Korea, not so much, and their leaders leveled with them.

    So, what would the panic look like if competency had been the order of the day? When Americans saw what the rest of the world was doing and saying, and our leaders were saying the exact opposite, that people went “Oh ship, maybe it’s time to panic”? so Charmin was unavailable for a month, that’s panic.

    But hey, nobody knew about Covid, there’d never been an infectious virus before, there wasn’t a plan that covered that…except there had been and there was, and experience and planning were ignored…hence the US response was a disgrace.

    Trump was downtalking it, minimizing it, and planning on a magic solution TODAY!!!, almost 8 months later, today.

    It was disgraceful then, it’s criminal now, and that is only one of 4 things this week that he’s done to prove he’s unfit.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  76. @72 It was not a binary choice between Truth+panic or Lies+calm. He could have told the truth and not caused panic. Telling the truth probably would have caused less chaos because not as many people would have spent time believing his disinformation and shouting at people who were less inclined. And maybe fewer people would have died if there had been a unified truth message instead of some people trying to deal with the reality while trump tried to suppress it.

    Nic (896fdf)

  77. hat is what Churchill did in WW II, when the Nazis were bombarding London. He spoke the truth, made the British people resolute and indefatigable, and ultimately they not only survived but won the war. Along with the help of Eisenhower, of course. The one quote I remember most from Churchill is, “The American people will always do the right thing, after they have exhausted all other alternatives.”

    Trump, on the other hand, failed to rally Americans to fight a common enemy and failed to lead by example. It was not only a missed opportunity to get Americans from all sides of the political to come together and be a unified front against the virus, but by failing to do that, he lost a golden political opportunity that would have served him well in the run-up to the election. Vaccine or no vaccine, if he had generated serious momentum in every American, regardless of their political affiliation, led by example (wearing a mask, social distancing and reinforcing that to Americans regularly), remained focused on managing the pandemic while giving medical experts the necessary platform and room – sans Trump – to communicate directly with the American public, his poll numbers would have been impressive. As it is…

    Dana (292df6)

  78. Now do a post about media and the democrats circle the wagons to protect Biden.

    1DaveMac (b2b831)

  79. nk @ 6,

    Thanks. I needed that today.

    Dana (292df6)

  80. I would answer that question this way:

    This disease was novel and its treatment/cure was and is unclear. The situation was confusing so people would feel panic no matter what Trump said or the government did. But honesty would have helped Trump and the government earn public trust as the pandemic unfolded, and it would have created more public unity. Our system works best when it is based on trust, not force.

    DRJ (aede82)

  81. Trump’s lapdog says Trump was ‘straight’ with Americans on coronavirus threat

    Comedy gold!

    Rip Murdock (2f4209)

  82. @75 Did you read your link?

    Nic (896fdf)

  83. Merkel told Germans the truth, and they didn’t panic. Rather, government and citizens took it seriously, they started testing early, they contact-traced, and deaths from the virus dropped to a trickle last June. The virus is contained while we’re failing.
    There are plenty examples of other countries not “panicking”. I thought the US was exceptional, that Americans could handle whatever comes before them, that we’re resilient. Instead, Papa Trump decided to lie because us fearful souls would freak out, and that’s his story and he’s sticking to it. That, and it’s Woodward’s fault for not calling out his lies right after they happened.

    Paul Montagu (ad6b35)

  84. I’ve updated the post with Trump defending himself after Jon Karl confronts him about “downplaying” (i.e. lying) about the virus.

    Dana (292df6)

  85. Well said, Paul Montagu.

    Dana (292df6)

  86. @71. That’s a lie. Once you change my quote, you own it. It’s yours, and you owe me an apology for stuffing your words down my throat.

    Except it’s not; your post; your quote.. from your throat:

    “@98. No, you’re once again making invidious overgeneralizations, because Americans loyal to Trump took him at his word and behaved accordingly, and political sycophants fell in line with Trump instead of the CDC. If you want to go on this personal responsibility jag, Trump is personally responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of your fellow citizens.
    Paul Montagu (ad6b35) — 9/9/2020 @ 6:55 pm”

    No need for you to apologize to me. Just stop diggin’ when you’re in a hole, fella.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  87. It should also be noted that the experts at the CDC screwed up nearly completely. Not only did they refuse the WHO tests, their own test kits were broken and even if they weren’t they were set up to run DOZENS of tests a day, nationwide. Just like they did with SARS.

    Every criticism Trump (or any barfly) has made of CDC is deserved and the entire upper management should be cashiered.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  88. If you want to go on this personal responsibility jag, Trump is personally responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of your fellow citizens.

    This is the kind of hyper-partisan hyperbole that makes people skip your comments, Paul.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  89. Such an important story that Bob Woodward and anybody else that knew what he was writing didn’t bother mentioning it for months. Coming on the heels of the “suckers and losers” story, I’m going to guess there are more shoes to drop, about one per week until the election unless I miss my guess. What will be the next bombshell to fall? An old story about a Trump business deal in Russia from 2004? A story about Trump cheating on a college exam? A story about Trump secretly being 3 ducks in an overcoat? It doesn’t matter what the story is or how ridiculous it is or how easily debunked it is, the purpose of the story is to force the GOP to play defense, to knock them off their game, to spend more time defending Trump than attacking Biden and the Left. And the GOP is just that stupid, they’ll happily attack the tarbaby the Left has set out for them, happily go chasing the chaff while ignoring the target. Trump, on the other hand, is a master troll, he may not be so easy to trick into chasing the ball the Left has pretended to throw. This should be fun to watch. Troll against troll and may the trollier troll win.

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  90. The Special Counsel staff got infected by Hillary Clinton’s “wipe it with a cloth” infection…

    What do you think that this email chain means? Be specific.

    My guess is you found it somewhere but don’t understand how Mobile Device Management, records retention, mail archiving, or iMessage storage works.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  91. I think any president who was a true statesman and decent communicator, with whom the majority of people had faith in because they had seen him in action, could have rallied the public together in a unified way despite the fears of the virus.

    Dana (292df6)

  92. Sources: NFL planning extensive social injustice content for Week 1 of season

    Next week in TV trade journals: “Week 1 football viewership drops abruptly at half-time. NFL and networks mystified.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  93. Merkel told Germans the truth, and they didn’t panic.

    Germans are fairly famous for following orders.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  94. Trump deflected Karl’s disrespectful slam w/Woodward’s own indifference.

    Brilliant. Our Captain knows how to manage the media.

    Wonder if Karl would have asked Reagan why he lied to the American people about Iran-Contra- and accepted Ronnie’s excuse that his mind and heart told he did not trade arms for hostages, the facts told him otherwise.

    Reaganoptics. Trump knows how to use I well.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  95. Every criticism Trump (or any barfly) has made of CDC is deserved and Trump’s entire upper management should be cashiered.

    Fixed it.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  96. I agree, but it’s no excuse screw up testing for so long. Trump did nothing in that regard, hardly took a meeting from Azar

    It was the experts screwing up, not Trump. What did you expect? Trump rushing down to the labs and telling people how to titrate a solution?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  97. The early government testing plans were flawed, Kevin M. They refused to allow private labs, hospitals and universities to participate, which was a mistake. Hiwever, IMO that is not germane to Trump’s response to the pandemic since he opposed more testing.

    DRJ (aede82)

  98. Jerryskids,

    You might want to read this which address your concern. But while this may or may not help, the fact of the matter is: We are currently still in the midst of a pandemic, we are still losing American lives to it, and Trump is still the President of the United States. Everything he has said and done with regard to the pandemic is timely, relevant, and should be made known to the American people, to whom he answers. This especially as he is asking us to trust him leading the nation for the next four years!

    Dana (292df6)

  99. Who’s on deck to release a Trump-tell-all-book next week?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  100. @103-
    Who’s on deck to release a Trump-tell-all-book next week?

    Other significant Trump books coming (in September)……a book by Andrew Weissmann, the lead prosecutor in the special counsel’s office; a book about the F.B.I.’s investigation into Russia’s election interference by Peter Strzok, a former F.B.I. deputy assistant director of counterintelligence, and “Donald Trump v. The United States: Inside the Struggle to Stop a President,” by Michael S. Schmidt, an investigative reporter for The New York Times. A memoir from Rick Gates, a high-level aide on the 2016 campaign and a witness in the Russia investigation, is slated for October publication.

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  101. If you’re in Moscow or Beijing– or just SPECTRE, K.A.O.S. and Dr. Evil– what does this all tell you about how to bring Amerika to its knees?

    … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  102. Still waiting to see how the western wildfires will be blamed on Trump.

    Squandering needed resources on absolutely preventable riots looking even worse considering so many out here pitching in to deal w fires.
    _

    harkin (cd4502)

  103. Who’s on deck to release a Trump-tell-all-book next week?

    It wasn’t the book, Trump is talking, it’s his words. Read Dana’s update, he’s doing it TODAY, this isn’t a story from Woodward, this is an ongoing story written by Donald Trump, spoken by Donald Trump, tweeted by Donald Trump.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  104. Off-topic: Reports of Antifa types setting fires in OR and WA. Just anecdotal hearsay for now, but I expect the MSM to studiously ignore this if true.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  105. Every criticism Trump (or any barfly) has made of CDC is deserved and Trump’s entire upper management should be cashiered.

    Fixed it.

    It has been, several times.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  106. Still waiting to see how the western wildfires will be blamed on Trump.

    Challenge accepted. When the President is criminally stupid, incompetent, unpatriotic, and irresponsible, citizens will see no reason not to likewise be criminally stupid, incompetent, unpatriotic, and irresponsible. “Gender reveal!” Goof grief! (No, don’t tell me different, I still want to believe it was a sonogram.)

    nk (1d9030)

  107. The early government testing plans were flawed, Kevin M.

    That’s one way to put it. You could also say the were laughably inadequate AND broken.

    They refused to allow private labs, hospitals and universities to participate, which was a mistake.

    Also, they refused to let companies with vast experience in home testing get involved — and they still refuse — despite the terribly inadequate throughput of “private labs, hospitals and universities” to conduct the current tests. They complain that the home tests miss the virus in the first few days, something the labs are able to catch. Even if it takes them a week to tell you the results. Although money seemingly gets results faster.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  108. @110 It was, in fact, about a forthcoming baby, so a sonogram was definitely involved.

    Nic (896fdf)

  109. “Gender reveal!”

    Mommy one and Mommy two: “Darling, are you a boy or girl?”

    Infant: “Gaa Gaa”

    Mommy one and Mommy two: “It’s a GIRL! Let’s schedule the surgery.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  110. Thank you, Nic!

    nk (1d9030)

  111. This is pretty long but…

    March 19th

    Donald Trump:
    Now it’s starting out it’s not just all people, Bob. But just today and yesterday, some startling facts came out. It’s not just old, older-

    Bob: (01:06)
    Yeah. Exactly.

    Donald Trump: (01:06)
    Young people too. Plenty of young people. We’re looking at what’s going on in-

    Bob: (01:12)
    So, give me a moment of talking to somebody, going through this with Fauci, or somebody who kind of… It caused a pivot in your mind, because it’s clear just from what’s on the public record, that you went through a pivot on this to, “Oh my God. The gravity is almost inexplicable and unexplainable.”

    Donald Trump: (01:38)
    Well, I think Bob, really, to be honest with you-

    Bob: (01:40)
    Sure. I want you to be.

    Donald Trump: (01:44)
    I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down because I don’t want to create a panic.

    March 20th

    Q I’ll just follow up. Nearly 200 dead. What do you say to Americans who are scared, though? I guess, nearly 200 dead; 14,000 who are sick; millions, as you witness, who are scared right now. What do you say to Americans who are watching you right now who are scared?

    THE PRESIDENT: I say that you’re a terrible reporter. That’s what I say.
    Go ahead.

    Q Mr. President, the units that were just declared —

    THE PRESIDENT: I think it’s a very nasty question, and I think it’s a very bad signal that you’re putting out to the American people. The American people are looking for answers and they’re looking for hope. And you’re doing sensationalism, and the same with NBC and “Con-cast.” I don’t call it — I don’t call it “Comcast,” I call it “Con-cast.”

    Let me just — for who you work — let me just tell you something: That’s really bad reporting, and you ought to get back to reporting instead of sensationalism.
    Let’s see if it works. It might and it might not. I happen to feel good about it, but who knows. I’ve been right a lot. Let’s see what happens.
    John?

    Q Can I get back to science and the logistics here?

    THE PRESIDENT: You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

    Q Sir, your message to Americans who are working at home, who have their children in their homes right now, who are homeschooling —

    THE PRESIDENT: Okay. Here we go. Go ahead. Let’s go.

    Q — doctors who say they don’t have the masks they need to do their jobs. Your message to them?

    THE PRESIDENT: My message to the American people is that there is a very low incidence of death. You understand that. And we’re going to come through this stronger than ever before.

    If you get it, if you happen to get it, it is highly unlikely. It’s looking like it’s getting to a number that’s much smaller than people originally thought, in terms of the ultimate — the ultimate problem, which would be death.

    My message to the American people is, number one, you’ve done an incredible job. Incredible. What you’ve gone through — it’s been incredible. It wasn’t their fault. It wasn’t their fault. It wasn’t the fault of 140 other countries where this has happened. And there is tremendous hope. And I think we’re going to come out stronger, better, bigger, in every way. I think we’re going to be a better country than we were before. And we learned a lot. We learned on reliance — who to rely on, who not to rely on.

    But our country — our country has been incredible, the way they pulled together — including the fact that I just spoke to Senator Schumer. We had a wonderful conversation. We both want to get to a good solution. But it’s been, really, for me — watching and seeing people, that weren’t speaking, getting along well because we all have one common aim, and that’s to get rid of this invisible enemy, get rid of it fast, and then go back to the kind of economy that we had, and maybe even better.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  112. I learned we were going to have a daughter on 9/11, THE 9/11, but it was a couple of hours after the “fireworks” had already occurred.

    nk (1d9030)

  113. @86

    @75 Did you read your link?

    Nic (896fdf) — 9/10/2020 @ 2:31 pm

    Yes. Did you?

    Looks like a whole lotta coordination to prevent the IG from investigating the SCO prosecutor’s communications. (now, the tech wiz may be able to recreate some conversation if they contacted others who weren’t wiped, but the SCO communications between prosecutors are likely lost).

    For those who don’t own iPhones… it takes a LOT of work to permanently lock the phone for unsuccessful password entries. (if I remember right about 3 hours).

    whembly (c30c83)

  114. March 17th
    “LIBERATE MINNESOTA!”
    “LIBERATE MICHIGAN!”
    “LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!”

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  115. @117 Here’s the ultimate irony.

    Weissman lead the prosecution over Author Anderson’s case (the Eron one) for the allegation of document destruction. (obstruction of justice, that was overruled by SCOTUS eventually).

    Yet Weissman and crew in the SCO coordinated communication destruction to prevent oversight. It’s the same act that Weissman would’ve prosecuted anyone else (he has a “pitbull” reputation after all).

    Oh… Fvck Weissman. He’s a disgrace to his profession.

    whembly (c30c83)

  116. For those who don’t own iPhones… it takes a LOT of work to permanently lock the phone for unsuccessful password entries. (if I remember right about 3 hours).

    Somewhere between 3 seconds and 40 seconds actually. Plus, the MDM policy for DOJ is to lock the device after 3 attempts, or by clicking a button. Plus there’s the off-device storage, do you think you’re iPhone is an island? It’s not for a general private individual, for an enterprise it is less so, not more so.

    Again, you didn’t actually read it, or you don’t know what it means.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  117. Also, what does an device management have to do with Trump lying about Covid?

    Were there pictures of…SQUIRREL…

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  118. you are iPhone, hah!

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  119. Wildfire/Arson info from more or less reliable source: https://heavy.com/news/2020/09/oregon-fires-antifa-arson/

    Apparently no one has been arrested in conjunction with any of the wildfires, certainly no Antifa members. But some fires are clearly arson. Neither bunked nor debunked.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  120. Reading more closely, there have been some arrests, mostly stupid people playing with matches. No coordinated arson attacks as some report.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  121. a totally fraudulent investigation carried out by at best incompetent officials, with mueller, with weissman, we’re talking criminal malice based on his record, was the predicate for three years of harassment, that culminated on february 7th

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  122. @117 (87 pages of device return procedures)

    So you noted, then, the conversation that verizon has records of texts from those phones, which could be retrieved within a limited amount of time and records that there were texts that could be retrieved for up to a year. Also, even with a factory reset the data isn’t actually deleted, it isn’t readily accessible, but it can be retrieved and you don’t have to be an expert techie to do it. In order to fully delete data you have to use special software that basically overwrites all the memory in a given device. A factory reset does not do that. I am reasonably certain that the FBI has people who can manage to retrieve data after a factory reset.

    Nic (896fdf)

  123. Trump lands in Michigan. AF1- 747- trundles up to yuuuuge hanger crowd.

    SHOW TIME!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  124. Oh…

    @ErikWemple
    Woodward did say that if anything he gathered was a legitimate public health issue, he would have gone to The Post and sought to have it published forthwith. “It wasn’t. It wasn’t,” he told me. 5/

    whembly (c30c83)

  125. Of course, as I am reminded, nobody, but nobody except Trump is responsible for the hydroxychloroquine nonsense. But conflating true criticisms with unverified ones is counterproductive.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/10/2020 @ 9:59 am

    Maybe politicians and non-medical people as a whole should leave medicine and treatment of Covid to the doctors and the patient involved. Hydroxychlorquine has been banned by many states based on what….. that Trump liked it? Hydroxychloroquine has been around and safely used for over 50 years. It doesn’t kill people. What it does do is save money as it is very cheap compared to the high dollar Remdesivir that Gilead is pushing. Money drives a lot these days.
    I have two neighbors who have both had Covid-19. One was terribly sick, on day 2 was gasping for breath and running high fever. They were threatening the hospital but the doctor gave them hydroxychloroquine, azithoimycin, and zinc. Two days later he was mowing his lawn. The other neighbor was having mild symptoms but was given the same mix. Recovered extremely fast and without problems. Many doctors in our area are using it without problems and I believe saving lives. It is being used all over the world as this link shows. EARLY use of it shortens the disease and lessens symptoms and is showing to lower death rates.
    Countries that Use Hydroxychloroquine may have lower Covid death rates

    I will trust my doctor, not a politician for my medical care.

    Marci (405d43)

  126. Hydroxychlorquine has been banned by many states based on what….. that Trump liked it?

    It hasn’t been “banned” for things that it’s used to treat. Covid isn’t one, it’s useless, without efficacy, no benefit, nada, zero, zilch, plus potentially causes other issues.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  127. The President would go on to blame Woodward after being asked by Washington Post reporter Philip Rucker about why he didn’t go public about his COVID-19 concerns, given that he told Woodward on Feb. 7 that he knew that the novel coronavirus was airborne and deadly.

    Trump pointed to China’s early assertion that COVID-19 was an airborne disease “earlier than the statements I made,” before going on to argue that “there has to be a calmness.”

    “You don’t want me jumping up and down screaming there’s going to be great death and really causing serious problems for the country,” Trump said.

    Trump then suggested that Woodward should’ve taken it upon himself to alert authorities after stating his private concerns on COVID-19 to the legendary journalist.

    After Rucker attempted to interject by mentioning that “Bob Woodward is not the President,” Trump rambled on by insisting that Woodward “said he didn’t think it was bad” before reiterating that the journalist should’ve gone public with the President’s COVID-19 concerns sooner.

    “He actually said he didn’t think it was bad. The only one that said its bad were the fake news media because they take it and they try and put it a certain way,” Trump said. “If Bob Woodward thought it was bad, then he should have immediately gone out publicly, not wait four months. He’s had that statement for four months, maybe five months. He’s had it for a long time.”

    The President then added that he did a series of “quick” interviews with Woodward on the phone “out of curiosity because I do have respect.”

    “I wonder whether or not somebody like that can write good,” Trump said. “I don’t think he can, but let’s see what happens.”

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  128. All of this.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/09/the-lefts-reaction-to-woodwards-coronavirus-scoop-is-revisionist-history/


    I hold no brief for Woodward, but the idea that he withheld some vital information from the public about the severity of coronavirus, or that Trump was privy to some secret, doesn’t hold up. Nor do I really comprehend the theory that Trump is intentionally trying to kill Americans. The United States basically did what most other Western nations did at basically the same time they did it. Going back now and reading pieces from experts, it’s clear that they knew little about how the virus worked or what the impact would be.

    According to the 2019 Global Health Security Index, the United States was the “best prepared” to deal with a pandemic. Even if we were, there is no free country that can be on a perpetual war footing, organizing and planning for every conceivable emergency and eventuality at all times.

    Sweden never fully locked down, and it has a lower per capita death rate than the British, who are about to lock down again. Not even tiny nations such as New Zealand and Israel, which can close down their borders, were able to “contain” COVID totally. It hasn’t mattered what your health-care system looks like, either. Every major country with a higher fatality rate than the United States right now — Peru, Belgium, Spain, the U.K., Bolivia, Brazil, Italy — or close — Sweden and Mexico — has universal government-provided health care.

    Of course, it’s fair to point out that Democrats weren’t in the White House when this pandemic broke out. But there’s also a presidential race going on right now. It’s also fair to point out that there’s no evidence that those who want to attain power would have been — or would be — any better prepared. And the idea that we could have stopped this in February or March is risible.

    Word.

    whembly (c30c83)

  129. It hasn’t been “banned” for things that it’s used to treat. Covid isn’t one, it’s useless, without efficacy, no benefit, nada, zero, zilch, plus potentially causes other issues.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 9/10/2020 @ 4:31 pm

    Tell that to my two neighbors who are walking proof otherwise.

    Marci (405d43)

  130. And all the people in other countries that are successfully being treated with it. Hmmmmmm……
    But I get it. Trump like, Trump bad. Bad medicine. It’s okay. You, nor Trump are in charge of my medical care.

    Marci (405d43)

  131. @130

    Covid isn’t one, it’s useless, without efficacy, no benefit, nada, zero, zilch, plus potentially causes other issues.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 9/10/2020 @ 4:31 pm

    Anecdotally, it’s still being prescribed for early covid treatment where I’m at. Not as widespread when it started as dexamethadone (DECADRAN), a corticosteroid is now the preferred treatment for early infections.

    The idea isn’t a “cure” for the disease, it’s to prevent the body from going into immuno shock (cytokine storm).

    Interestingly, it *is* widely used for covid around the rest of the world. It’s just a matter of effectiveness and tradeoffs (as is the case of any medicinal treatment plans).

    whembly (c30c83)

  132. one might further note, that what has been practiced from virginia to maine, washington to california, was the beta test for ezekiel’s plan,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  133. Tell that to my two neighbors who are walking proof otherwise.

    Cool story bro.

    I’d be happy to. 97% of people who get Covid survive, 80% of the hospitalized survive. Congratulations, your neighbors were among the 98%. They’re walking proof of that at least.

    I bet they also had some chicken during that time period, drank some fluoridated water, probably watched some Netflix, other things that didn’t cure them of Covid.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  134. And all the people in other countries that are successfully being treated with it. Hmmmmmm……
    But I get it. Trump like, Trump bad. Bad medicine. It’s okay. You, nor Trump are in charge of my medical care.

    Which ones are that, be specific?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  135. if there is no hope, you can sign away all your liberties indefinitely, this is how you can be arrested in your own home, in victoria province, how they’ve post poned the election, in new zealand, supposedly for a month,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  136. mitch/lindsey/toilet/2020

    mg (8cbc69)

  137. 130. Thank you Doctor Colonel, Sir. As a decades-long advocate of “right-to-try,” I think that should be between a doctor and his/her patients. Off-label prescriptions are made all the time for many drugs with potentially dodgy side effects, including some controlled substances. The only reason HCQ should be any different is because politics.

    Gryph (f63000)


  138. Curtis Houck
    @CurtisHouck
    ·
    Video: Here’s just a sample of the back-and-forth between Fox News Channel’s @BretBaier and TJ Ducklo from the Biden campaign. Baier repeatedly asked the simple question of what Biden would have done differently on COVID, and Ducklo accuses him of being a Trump campaign stooge.

    https://twitter.com/NumbersMuncher/status/1304187394455937029?s=20

    __ _

    Josh Jordan
    @NumbersMuncher

    This is a brutal exchange.

    Biden’s team should be better prepared for these kinds of questions because they aren’t going to magically go away.
    __ _

    Muscles Rothschild
    @MusclesRoth
    ·
    Why would they be prepared for them when 99% of the media is working with them to get Joe elected?
    __ _

    Non Hispanic White
    @EmJayHix
    ·
    They don’t have to be prepared for anything. Bidens team knows the media had them covered and the next “Trump bombshell” is coming in a day or two.

    They don’t actually have to do any work cause no one will ever question them. They’ll just say orange man bad and j*rk off together
    —-

    JD
    @skidoosh10
    ·
    It wasn’t even a hard question, but this will last all of four hours before something else replaces it in the media’s attention span.
    __

    harkin (cd4502)

  139. Yeah, he takes it seriously.

    Very little social distancing and not many masks inside crowded airport hangar in Michigan for Trump rally. pic.twitter.com/KcdYmFYQWR— Jim Acosta (@Acosta) September 10, 2020

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  140. @143 What I really want to know is who they let choose the music? Fortunate Son? 2 Big Gay Anthems? And Tiny Dancer? Most of the people in the crowd looked to be mid 30s to late 40s and that is NOT our music, TYVM.

    (also the speech was terrible, all over the place, and it doesn’t seem like even the crowd was following it very well.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  141. Whembly so many deceptive statements in this.

    I hold no brief for Woodward, but the idea that he withheld some vital information from the public about the severity of coronavirus, or that Trump was privy to some secret, doesn’t hold up. Nor do I really comprehend the theory that Trump is intentionally trying to kill Americans. The United States basically did what most other Western nations did at basically the same time they did it. Going back now and reading pieces from experts, it’s clear that they knew little about how the virus worked or what the impact would be.

    This is deceptive. The steps to handle the flu like pandemic are pretty well known. Testing, Contact Tracing, and QT to slow the spread.

    According to the 2019 Global Health Security Index, the United States was the “best prepared” to deal with a pandemic. Even if we were, there is no free country that can be on a perpetual war footing, organizing and planning for every conceivable emergency and eventuality at all times.

    Again deceptive as it implies we couldn’t afford to keep being prepared. It’s an excuse.

    Sweden never fully locked down, and it has a lower per capita death rate than the British, who are about to lock down again. Not even tiny nations such as New Zealand and Israel, which can close down their borders, were able to “contain” COVID totally. It hasn’t mattered what your health-care system looks like, either. Every major country with a higher fatality rate than the United States right now — Peru, Belgium, Spain, the U.K., Bolivia, Brazil, Italy — or close — Sweden and Mexico — has universal government-provided health care.

    Deceptive in many ways.

    The UK tried for herd immunity early on and their system started to get overwhelmed so they switching to lockdown. They’re at 63 deaths per 100K. Sweeden is at 57.
    The US is at 58. Just behind Sweeden.
    Germany is at 11.
    New Zeeland is at 0.5

    Bottom line, We’re among the worst in the world for CV19 fatalities.

    Of course, it’s fair to point out that Democrats weren’t in the White House when this pandemic broke out. But there’s also a presidential race going on right now. It’s also fair to point out that there’s no evidence that those who want to attain power would have been — or would be — any better prepared. And the idea that we could have stopped this in February or March is risible.

    Stopped it? No, but I think we should have been able to do about as well as Germany, with 1/6 our deaths. But we didn’t and much of that has to do with decisions and mistakes in the executive branch.

    Time123 (441f53)

  142. This is the kind of hyper-partisan hyperbole that makes people skip your comments, Paul.

    I provided the links for a reason, Kevin, and I categorically reject your opinion.

    Paul Montagu (ad6b35)

  143. It was the experts screwing up, not Trump. What did you expect? Trump rushing down to the labs and telling people how to titrate a solution?

    It happened under Trump’s watch, Kevin. Trump didn’t lift one finger to fast-track testing. That’s just a fact.

    Paul Montagu (ad6b35)

  144. Donnie Calm, tamping down the “panic” in 2014

    A single Ebola carrier infects 2 others at a minimum. STOP THE FLIGHTS! NO VISAS FROM EBOLA STRICKEN COUNTRIES!

    When will most of the American people realize that this guy is a total fraud?

    Paul Montagu (ad6b35)

  145. Woodward did say that if anything he gathered was a legitimate public health issue, he would have gone to The Post and sought to have it published forthwith. “It wasn’t. It wasn’t,” he told me. 5/

    whembly (c30c83) — 9/10/2020 @ 4:13 pm

    It was only a publicly debated opinion: Is the coronavirus a greater danger than flu, which we have every year, or not? Trump told Woodward that it was (or had agreed with that to give himself more credibility with Woodward) while saying in public that it was not.

    Part of the problem was that the mortality from the flu had been overstated, and was nothing more than, at best, a crude estimate which the CDC never altered and never changed from year to year.

    Here’s something interesting: seems to be from about 2005)

    https://aspe.hhs.gov/cdc-%E2%80%94-influenza-deaths-request-correction-rfc

    The CDC website states what has become commonly accepted and widely reported in the lay and scientific press: annually “about 36 000 [Americans] die from flu” (www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease.htm) and “influenza/pneumonia” is the seventh leading cause of death in the United States (www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm).

    But why are flu and pneumonia bundled together? Is the relationship so strong or unique to warrant characterizing them as a single cause of death? David Rosenthal, director of Harvard University Health Services, said, “People don’t necessarily die, per se, of the [flu] virus—the viraemia. What they die of is a secondary pneumonia. So many of these pneumonias are not viral pneumonias but secondary [pneumonias].”

    But Dr Rosenthal agreed that the flu/pneumonia relationship was not unique. For instance, a recent study (JAMA 2004;292: 1955-60[Abstract/Free Full Text]) found that stomach acid suppressing drugs are associated with a higher risk of community acquired pneumonia, but such drugs and pneumonia are not compiled as a single statistic.

    CDC states that the historic 1968-9 “Hong Kong flu” pandemic killed 34 000 Americans. At the same time, CDC claims 36 000 Americans annually die from flu. What is going on?

    Meanwhile, according to the CDC’s National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), “influenza and pneumonia” took 62 034 lives in 2001—61 777 of which were attributed to pneumonia and 257 to flu, and in only 18 cases was flu virus positively identified. Between 1979 and 2002, NCHS data show an average 1348 flu deaths per year (range 257 to 3006).

    The NCHS data would be compatible with CDC mortality estimates if about half of the deaths classed by the NCHS as pneumonia were actually flu initiated secondary pneumonias. But the NCHS criteria indicate otherwise: “Cause-of-death statistics are based solely on the underlying cause of death… defined by WHO as `the disease or injury which initiated the train of events leading directly to death.'”

    In a written statement, CDC media relations responded to the diverse statistics: “Typically, influenza causes death when the infection leads to severe medical complications.” And as most such cases “are never tested for virus infection…CDC considers these [NCHS] figures to be a very substantial undercounting of the true number of deaths from influenza. Therefore, the CDC uses indirect modelling methods to estimate the number of deaths associated with influenza.”

    CDC’s model calculated an average annual 36 155 deaths from influenza associated underlying respiratory and circulatory causes (JAMA 2003;289: 179-86[Abstract/Free Full Text]). Less than a quarter of these (8097) were described as flu or flu associated underlying pneumonia deaths.

    Thus the much publicised figure of 36 000 is not an estimate of yearly flu deaths, as widely reported in both the lay and scientific press, but an estimate—generated by a model—of flu-associated death.

    William Thompson of the CDC’s National Immunization Program (NIP), and lead author of the CDC’s 2003 JAMA article, explained that “influenza-associated mortality” is “a statistical association between deaths and viral data available.” He said that an association does not imply an underlying cause of death: “Based on modelling, we think it’s associated. I don’t know that we would say that it’s the underlying cause of death.”

    Yet this stance is incompatible with the CDC assertion that the flu kills 36 000 people a year—a misrepresentation that is yet to be publicly corrected. Before 2003 CDC said that 20 000 influenza-associated deaths occurred each year. The new figure of 36 000 reported in the January 2003 JAMA paper is an estimate of influenza-associated mortality over the 1990s.

    Keiji Fukuda, a flu researcher and a co-author of the paper, has been quoted as offering two possible causes for this 80% increase: “One is that the number of people older than 65 is growing larger…The second possible reason is the type of virus that predominated in the 1990s [was more virulent].”

    However, the 65-plus population grew just 12% between 1990 and 2000. And if flu virus was truly more virulent over the 1990s, one would expect more deaths. But flu deaths recorded by the NCHS were on average 30% lower in the 1990s than the 1980s.

    At the 2004 “National Influenza Vaccine Summit,” co-sponsored by CDC and the American Medical Association, Glen Nowak, associate director for communications at the NIP, spoke on using the media to boost demand for the vaccine.

    One step of a “Seven-Step `Recipe’ for Generating Interest in, and Demand for, Flu (or any other) Vaccination” occurs when “medical experts and public health authorities publicly…state concern and alarm (and predict dire outcomes)—and urge influenza vaccination” (www.ama-ssn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/36/2004_flu_nowak.pdf).

    Another step entails “continued reports…that influenza is causing severe illness and/or affecting lots of people, helping foster the perception that many people are susceptible to a bad case of influenza.”

    Preceding the summit, demand had been low early into the 2003 flu season. “At that point, the manufacturers were telling us that they weren’t receiving a lot of orders for vaccine for use in November or even December,” recalled Dr Nowak on National Public Radio. “It really did look like we needed to do something to encourage people to get a flu shot.”

    If flu is in fact not a major cause of death, this public relations approach is surely exaggerated.

    Moreover, by arbitrarily linking flu with pneumonia, current data are statistically biased. Until corrected and until unbiased statistics are developed, the chances for sound discussion and public health policy are limited.

    I am a pediatrician and this propaganda affects my practice directly.

    Kenneth Stoller
    International Hyperbaric Medical Association

    his was the CDC response:

    https://aspe.hhs.gov/cdc-%E2%80%94-influenza-deaths-hhs-response-rfc

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  146. Paul Montagu (ad6b35) — 9/10/2020 @ 11:58 pm

    When will most of the American people realize that this guy is a total fraud?

    When the Democrats start being honest in their criticisms or the popularly circulated anti-Trump arguments fade into history.

    It will take between about eight and thirty years.

    Remember, you said “total” fraud. By that I assume you mean the things he likes to repeat. Even when they are 70% true he says things that include things that are wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  147. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 9/10/2020 @ 4:50 pm

    . 97% of people who get Covid survive,

    It’s closer to 99% really (or even more) If you include undiagnosed cases.

    t was Dr. Vladimir (Zev) Zelenko who brought hydroxyxhloriquine to the attention of high level Republicans. He is still very much for it, but says this is only helpful at the beginning of the infection and should be given as soon as there is suspicion of Covid – no clinical physician should wait for a test result. He says that giving hydroxychloroquine, azithoimycin, and zinc practically eliminates deaths. Other doctors substitute the less toxic antibiotic doxycycline for azithoimycin.

    here are other off label treatments as well. BTW, Marci’s neighbors didn’t just survive, they got better quickly. And convalescent fluid. It’s difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  148. Althouse defends Trump.

    DRJ (aede82)

  149. @152, That’s one of the silliest excuses I’ve seen yet.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  150. 152. I don;t think Trump believed, as Ann Althouse did, (and she had the same data Trump had – he was telling Bob Woodward no secrets – THAT 11.5 MILLION AMERICANS WOULD DIE.

    Or even 5 million.

    His public health experts were telling him they could keep it out of the United States. And I think Trump was somewhat skeptical about that.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  151. The 5% mortality rate for Covid was the product of limited testing, and the 1% death rate for flu was a very bad crude estimation, which the CDC never changed and had deliberately made as high as possible in order to encourage people to take the flu vaccines, which only had limited effectiveness.

    Neither number dealt with what percentage of the population became infected.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  152. @155, Can’t know what Trump believed or not. Can only know what he did and didn’t do and what the results are. By those measures he failed.

    Time123 (52fb0e)

  153. Marci @154

    Can the (Democratic) officials in Harris County really have been so stupid – can everybody involved have been so stupid – as to not realize how they were exaggerating the number of new cases of Covid? (by reporting them as of the day they were notified, often over 30 days old, and not the day of the test

    Were they stupid, or just lazy or maybe partisan?

    I think you can be too lazy or budget conscious to correct the numbers but you have to be either stupid or partisan to use the bad numbers like they were real.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  154. Trump failed (a little) because he listened too much to the public health experts.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  155. @157. The video had nothing to do with deaths. It was about real current infections and the truth of real data to open schools.
    Data is constantly being manipulated so that many might even argue your link claiming 15k plus deaths in TX.

    Our neighborhood private school has 497 students. They gave the parents a choice of in person or online. 495 students and their parents chose in person. Our public school is in person in a modified schedule for the first six weeks. Parents are increasingly vocal about the improved health of their children mentally in being in school. This school board In the video, located in the Houston area, was discussing using real numbers, not inflated or delayed data to make well informed decisions. I believe real numbers provide freedom if only in peace of mind.

    Marci (405d43)

  156. @159

    I say stupid. You’d have to understand the debacle of the last county judge election where a totally inexperienced grad student ride a Beto wave into victory over an experienced man who had done excellent work on numerous hurricanes, issues etc. Judge Lina Hidalgo is drunk on power and it shows.

    Marci (405d43)

  157. @159. And definitely partisan

    Marci (405d43)

  158. No, it’s not political.

    https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/09/10/la-county-schools-health-barbara-ferrer-election-reopen/

    “We don’t realistically anticipate that we would be moving either to Tier 2 [of California’s reopening plan] or to reopening K-12 schools at least…until after the election, after, you know, in early November. If we just look at the timing of everything, it seems to us the most realistic approach to this would be to think that we’re gonna be where we are now…until…we are done with the elections.”

    beer ‘n pretzels (cc02f0)

  159. They dont care marci, nor putting o rourke the fake latino in any position of responsibility.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  160. Yes lina hidalgo is the judicial version of cortez.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  161. 911 dispatchers slammed with calls about QAnon-backed false claims about wildfires
    This is what QAnon is. And Trump endorses its candidates, compliments its followers’ love for their country, and of course welcomes their fawning adoration of his Orange Highness. All of which is to say, if you support Trump look in the mirror. The face staring back at you is a QAnon supporter.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  162. But hey, I don’t mean to imply QAnon is Trump’s only base of support. There are lots of very fine people who know a white knight when they see one (even if he happens to be orange).

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  163. All of which is to say, if you support Trump look in the mirror. The face staring back at you is a QAnon supporter.

    Duh.

    Yeah, and Biden quoted Mao and has a Mao admirer as an advisor. And, Biden staffers bailed out rioters.

    So, look in the mirror Biden supporter. The face staring back at you is a Commie/Antifa anarchist who hates ‘Merica.

    beer ‘n pretzels (fc7939)

  164. When the Democrats start being honest in their criticisms or the popularly circulated anti-Trump arguments fade into history

    I’d say that, whether in absolute terms or relative to Biden or in American history, Trump’s fraud and corruption stand out, Sammy.
    I’ll wager that, like how Patterico came to his senses on Cruz, five years from now a vast swath of Americans are going to ask themselves, “what the hell was I thinking”.

    Paul Montagu (8ade62)

  165. 169.

    Don’t pull a muscle pretzeling yourself into that false equivalence.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  166. https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-world-trade-center-attacks-memorial-20200911-36cg3w4wnbe35cyssrxqjf4k2y-story.html

    At the reading of the names I noticed one or two things different.

    First every small list of reading by two people no longer ended “and my father” or “and my brother” or cousin or son or whatever it might be but the names were just read in alphabetical order.

    2. If a pregnant woman was mentioned, her unborn child was mentioned too.

    This may have been done ll the time: A bell was rung five times not just for the two planes crashing into the World Trade Center buildings and when the buildings came down but also fr Shanskville (and I assume the crash into the Pentagon)

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  167. Ms. Althouse is either innumerate or not being honest.
    Trump also said to Woodward that CV19 is five times more lethal than flu (the WSJ had it at 5 to 10 times more deadly). The mortality rate for common flu is 0.1%, not 1%, so Trump got the percentages jumbled.
    Althouse cherry-picked the jumbled and ignored “five times”.

    Paul Montagu (8ade62)

  168. Trump failed (a little) because he listened too much to the public health experts.

    Like when he ignored the April 3rd CDC masking recommendations, and when he went against his experts when he pushed governors to prematurely reopen?

    Paul Montagu (8ade62)

  169. Circling the wagons to protect fake news:

    https://twitter.com/JozefColomy/status/1304465032055488518?s=20
    _

    harkin (cd4502)

  170. 158. Time123 (52fb0e) — 9/11/2020 @ 8:00 am

    . Can only know what he did and didn’t do and what the results are. By those measures he failed.

    The issue isn’t whether he failed. The issue is whether he told a lie that caused more deaths.

    he issue also is how much he failed. Because he could have done better and he could have done worse. Also, How does it compare to an average president

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  171. Paul Montagu: When will most of the American people realize that this guy is a total fraud?

    When the Democrats start being honest in their criticisms or the popularly circulated anti-Trump arguments fade into history

    170. Paul Montagu (8ade62) — 9/11/2020 @ 9:19 am

    I’d say that, whether in absolute terms or relative to Biden or in American history, Trump’s fraud and corruption stand out, Sammy

    His intellectual frauds are notable for being close to original with him, although he piked up on some ideas that have been circulating for some time.

    He is notable for telling what amount to completely wrong crazy lies. Lies that sometimes, if you change this, and you change that, can amount to something that is valid. The tenor of the political discussion in the United States is such, that it isn’t really noticed. It’s not like his opponents stick to the facts. Their rebuttals usually don’t stick to the facts. (because they don’t want to admit, that if you this instead, then what he said would be OK. No, Trump must be wrong wrong wrong. )

    He isn’t corrupt – that’s just not true, although he tries to lay off legal expenses on the government or on the Republican Party.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/05/us/politics/trump-campaign-funds-legal-bills.html

    That doesn’t mean he cares mostly only about his money.

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  172. I’ll wager that, like how Patterico came to his senses on Cruz, five years from now a vast swath of Americans are going to ask themselves, “what the hell was I thinking”.

    No, because nobody who knows a great deal thinks Trump is great. Anyone who thought so, didn’t know a lot, and/or focused on one or two things.

    Yes, people revise opinions. Somebody named Scott I think on Powerline blog was very impressed by Mitt Romney in January, 2007.

    Posted by Scott at 02:29 PM | Permalink | |
    2008 summitry

    I started my legal career as a brief writer for a federal agency. Sometimes when my crusty boss commented on my draft brief she would start by saying, “well, it’s all there.” That meant the brief was pretty good, that nothing important had been left unsaid, but that it hadn’t quite come together and, above all, wasn’t sufficiently concise. The brief wouldn’t need major surgery, but would require more than a little tightening.

    That’s how I felt about Mitt Romney’s speech last night to a sold-out (and more) dinner at National Review’s conservative summit. Romney spoke well. He was likeable throughout and dynamic at times. During his best moments, he almost sounded Reaganesque. And the speech had all of the important elements — what he learned in the private sector; how he took these principles, especially his insistence on data, to government; the merits of the health insurance plan he came up with; his views on social issues, including why he changed his position on abortion; the major problems facing our nation (out-of-control spending, competition from Asia which will force us to raise the bar or become second-rate, and jihad); and how our traditional strengths as Americans will help us overcome these problems. Romney showed an excellent understanding of “jihadism.” And he got in a good shot at McCain without ever mentioning the Senator by name when he praised President Bush for standing firm on cutting taxes despite the opposition of “some in his own party.”

    However, the speech struck me (and some of our readers to whom I spoke afterwards) as too long and a bit rambling. Moreover, the best bits — his powerful recitation of our strenghs [sic] as a people, his strong explication of jihadism — came late. In fact, some of it did not come during the brief Q & A session. It’s a bad sign when someone asks you, at the end of a lengthy address, what your core principles are. The good news is that Romney gave an excellent answer — “culture makes all the difference” and our culture is a “purpose driven” one in which the family is the key.

    Mitt still fits for me, he just needs a better fitting stump speech.

    UPDATE: Romney apparently hit a home run in a speech he gave in Israel on the battle against radical Islam. As I said, “it’s all there.”

    I think this is the same person this year:

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/category/mitt-romney

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)

  173. The Democrats specialize in inventing false attacks against their opponents and have been doing that Nixon. A lot of the attacks during Watergate were not true. They also specialize in infallibility. Sometimes they are infallible because of the sheer quantity (not quality) of “evidence” ;sometimes they are infallible because to deny would be to indulge in a conspiracy theory, and conspiracy theories are supposedly always false; sometimes they are infallible because of credentials of people they cite in support, often without naming them, and sometimes they just rely on name calling.

    There is also a network – I don;t know who originates these things – that makes up usually half true attacks against Democrats that gets repeated on all sorts of talk radio shows. They never claim infallibility but they claim to have obvious proof. These are never rebutted factually because to do that would admit of something not good. A point or two may be seized upon by the defenders (although there are a few sites like justsecurity.org, that pretend to be comprehensive)

    Sammy Finkelman (ccce11)


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