Patterico's Pontifications

9/5/2020

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 7:55 am



[guest post by Dana]

Here are a few news items to chew over. Feel free to share your own in the comments. Please remember to provide a link.

First news item

Who dat?? I no longer recognize the Republican Party, Part 412…:

A Republican candidate for Congress in Georgia posted a photo to her Facebook page on Thursday in which she brandished a large firearm and declared conservatives need to go “on the offense” against the “socialists” pictured in the post alongside her…Marjorie Taylor Greene, a believer in the QAnon conspiracy theory, is the GOP nominee in Georgia’s 14th Congressional District. Endorsed by President Trump, she’s likely to be elected to Congress in November. The threatening photo says “Squad’s worst nightmare” as a gun-toting Greene poses alongside images of Reps. Ilhan Omar (D-MN), Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), and Rashida Tlaib (D-MI).

Untitled

Second news item

Sending a girl out to do a president’s work:

The White House on Thursday denounced the poisoning of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny and suggested that the United States might retaliate if the Kremlin is to blame, but President Trump has not repudiated the attack himself, prompting criticism that he is once again being soft on Russian President Vladimir Putin.

White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany called the poisoning “completely reprehensible” but did not address a question about whether Trump has “made his voice known to the Russian government.”

It was the strongest U.S. condemnation yet of the attack two weeks ago using what a German military lab says was a banned chemical weapon. Navalny survived and is now under treatment in Germany.

Still, Trump himself has remained almost entirely silent about the attack on the most prominent domestic critic of Putin. Trump had said nothing on the matter since last Thursday, when he told reporters the United States was looking into the then-unconfirmed reports that Navalny had been poisoned.

Don’t make me criticize Putin! Anything but that!

Asked about his view on Navalny at a White House press briefing, Trump said, “I don’t know what exactly happened. I think it’s tragic, it’s terrible, it shouldn’t happen. We haven’t had any proof yet, but we will take a look.” He went on to apparently question why Russia faces so much scrutiny while China doesn’t. “It is interesting that everyone’s always mentioning Russia… but I think probably China at this point is a nation you should be talking about much more so than Russia,” he said.”

Third news item

NPR under fire for softball interview with batshit anti-Semite, pro-looting author who said:

“[Looting] gets people what they need for free immediately, which means that they are capable of living and reproducing their lives without having to rely on jobs or a wage — which, during COVID times, is widely unreliable or, particularly in these communities, is often not available, or it comes at great risk.” And “In terms of potential crimes that people can commit against the state, [looting is] basically nonviolent. You’re mass shoplifting. Most stores are insured; it’s just hurting insurance companies on some level. It’s just money. It’s just property. It’s not actually hurting any people.”

NPR now:

National Public Radio is scrambling to do damage control this week after it promoted the views of a dangerously ignorant pro-looting activist who is also a gigantic anti-Semite.

In late August, NPR’s Code Switch department published an interview with Vicky Osterweil, author of In Defense of Looting. In the interview, Osterweil was given free rein to spout several major falsehoods, drawing little to no pushback from NPR.

“This Q&A with a provocative author did not serve NPR’s audience,” the newsgroup’s public editor, Kelly McBride, said Thursday. “On top of being wrong about recent events, the author’s characterization of the Civil Rights Movement is a distortion and oversimplification.”

She adds, “In the interview, the author made several statements in support of her hypothesis that could be easily fact-checked.”

Fourth news item

White people gentrified BLM. What, you didn’t think that would happen??

Black Lives Matter was once shunned by the white establishment. But now, it’s chic. And that’s a problem.

BLM banners fly from homes in Silver Lake. BLM posters are taped to the windows of Portland coffee shops. BLM hashtags fill users’ bios on Twitter and Tinder…

[I]n broad terms, there is a distinction between the motivations of white and Black protesters.

Historically, when Black people protest, they are responding to intolerable and immediate injustice — say, the water crisis in Flint. In contrast…white Americans tend to protest over more abstract goals — like the Occupy Wall Street protests against economic inequality or the melting of Arctic glaciers — and are driven by the “fierce urgency of the future.”

“What you’re willing to sacrifice, demand and compromise is going to be different. There is a shared sense of the problem but your immediate objective is fundamentally different.”…

AJ Lovelace. The 28-year old activist filmmaker felt the marches over the summer started off coherent and then devolved into being performative.

“It was obvious to me that people were out there to say they were out there,” “White girls would agitate the police and then cry when they responded. This isn’t how a protest works.”

White co-optation can overshadow those involved in grassroots efforts, and it creates the illusion that “everyone was part of this movement the whole time,” he said. After the dust settled in the 1970s and public opinion shifted, everyone claimed to have been a civil rights activist.

[I]f history shows one thing to be true, it’s that white attention and sympathy for Black social justice is fleeting. It wanes when cameras disappear.

Wut??? White girls co-opting protests and bringing the performative bullshit?? Say it ain’t so!

Fifth news item

Adapation is about leaning into the chaos!

Sixth news item

South Dakota tempts fate…again:

South Dakota is one of the nation’s hot spots for COVID-19 infections. That didn’t stop another large-scale event from kicking off Thursday.

The rural South Dakota State Fair, which reported an attendance of 205,000 people last year, is set to run through Labor Day with more hand-washing stations, social distancing reminders and an encouragement — but not a requirement — for attendees to wear masks. It comes on the heels of the state’s two largest events: The Sturgis Motorcycle Rally and the The Sioux Empire Fair.

In the weeks following those events, South Dakota has emerged as a virus hotbed, according to data analysis. State and national health experts say the rise in cases is likely fueled by a combination of factors, including school reopenings, small gatherings and major events.

Seventh news item

You learn something new every day:

According to the allegations in the criminal complaint and law enforcement affidavit, in late May of 2020, the FBI initiated an investigation into Solomon and Teeter, two members of the “Boogaloo Bois,” and a sub-group called the “Boojahideen.” The Boogaloo Bois are a loosely- connected group of individuals who espouse violent anti-government sentiments. The term “Boogaloo” itself references a supposedly impending second civil war in the United States and is associated with violent uprisings against the government.

The witness told FBI agents that Solomon and Teeter possessed firearms and substantial quantities of ammunition and that Solomon, Teeter, and other members of the Boogaloo Bois and Boojahideen discussed committing acts of violence against police officers and other targets in furtherance of the Boojahideen’s stated goal of overthrowing the government and replacing its police forces.

Eighth news item

No one said it was perfect, but I’ll take America every single time:

America’s real triumph has been its ability to adapt and change over the course of nearly two and a half centuries. The Founding Fathers did not come down from Mount Vernon holding the Constitution on stone tablets. They realized that they were fallible, and that their successors would be too. So they created an ingenious system to be run by imperfect human beings, not by an infallible god or monarch.

When they invented the constitutional republic from whole cloth, the Founders did something unprecedented: They created checks and balances, wrote the opposition into the government, and meticulously divided its powers and responsibilities. Then they complemented the Constitution with the Bill of Rights, a document that is all the more remarkable for focusing not on what the government is obliged to do for its citizens, but on what it may not do to its citizens.

Thus was launched the greatest nation on Earth.

Ninth news item

It doesn’t mean that only 9,200 Americans have died from coronavirus infections:

A retweet by President Trump last weekend set off a storm of misinformation about coronavirus deaths and takes advantage of confusion about the concept of “comorbidity” and how death certificates are filled out.

Trump retweeted a post from a QAnon supporter that claimed, “This week the CDC quietly updated the Covid number to admit that only 6% of all the 153, 504 deaths actually died from Covid, that’s 9210 deaths. The other 94% had 2-3 other serious illnesses and the overwhelming majority were of very advanced age.”

Read the whole thing.

Tenth news item

Most powerful man in America decries cancel culture except when something about him is said that he doesn’t like. Sad!

Miscellaneous Meanderings

It’s all about the heatwave here on the left coast:

And because it’s already a hundred and hell degrees outside, here’s a deliciously romantic clip from the old classic, Roman Holiday, to up the temperature even more:

She paints the season in languid strokes of poetry:

“Maycomb was a tired old town, even in 1932 when I first knew it. Somehow, it was hotter then. Men’s stiff collars wilted by nine in the morning. Ladies bathed before noon after their three o’clock naps. And by nightfall were like soft teacakes with frosting from sweating and sweet talcum. The day was twenty-four hours long, but it seemed longer. There’s no hurry, for there’s nowhere to go and nothing to buy…and no money to buy it with.”

It’s always been the calling and goal as much as it is possible on our end:

t absolutely kills me to say this, but we’re going to have to find the humanity in one another. In our quest to find the humanity in others, I don’t think we can start with people on the extreme fringes. We’re going to have to start with someone who’s just one click away from us and build some muscle.

Have a good weekend.

–Dana

482 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (292df6)

  2. South Dakota has a pretty good track record.

    4th of July at Mt. Rushmore = NOT a superspreader

    Sturgis = NOT a superspreader

    ??? = NOT a superspreader

    Gryph (f63000)

  3. States Report Coronavirus Cases Linked To Sturgis, S.D., Motorcycle Rally
    More than two weeks after nearly half a million bikers flocked to South Dakota, the tally of coronavirus infections traced back to the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally has surpassed 260, an estimate that is growing steadily as more states report cases and at least one death.

    At least 12 states have turned up cases linked to the 10-day event.

    The greatest share of cases so far have emerged in the rally’s home state, South Dakota, which has registered more than 100 cases so far.

    A Minnesota man in his 60s who went to the rally was later hospitalized for COVID-19 and died earlier this week, said Kris Ehresmann, head of infectious disease for the Minnesota Department of Health.

    Minnesota has counted more than 45 cases tied to the rally, and that only includes people who got tested and then notified state health departments about their possible exposure at Sturgis.
    ………
    “I think it’s still a little early to really know how this is going to play out,” says Dr. Marcus Plescia, chief medical officer for the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials.
    …………

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  4. Glad to hear your okay Gryph…….

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  5. 3. Of course cases are “linked” to Sturgis. I didn’t say no one left there contagious. I said it was not, is not, and shall not be considered a “super-spreader.” The count of attendees, to my understanding, reached almost 450,000, considerably more than were planned for, and the number of cases “linked” to the rally depends on your source. The highest number I think I’ve seen from any source has been 188.

    BUT…From an NPR report:

    Public health experts say the number of cases linked to the event will probably never be clear.

    Well no s**t, Sherlock. Give the people that kind of information, and they’ll stop being afraid of something that probably won’t kill them.

    Gryph (f63000)

  6. Best reporting on the riot reporting I’ve seen so far from Reason:

    You’re Not Allowed To Film – The Fight To Control Who Reports From Portland

    “ “YOU’RE NOT ALLOWED TO FILM!” is a cry you hear incessantly at protests in Portland, Oregon, always shouted at close range to your face by after-dark demonstrators. You can assert that, yes, you can film; you can point out that they themselves are filming incessantly; you can push their hands away from covering your phone; you can have your phone record them stealing your phone—all of these things have happened to me—and none will have any impact on their contention that “YOU’RE NOT ALLOWED TO FILM” and its occasional variation, “PHOTOGRAPHY EQUALS DEATH!”

    I cannot say who came up with these anti-camera battle cries. But it’s easy to understand why protesters use them: to shape the narrative the country sees about the protests. And that narrative, in my estimation after many weeks covering street clashes in a city where I lived for 15 years, is 90 percent bullsh**……….

    ………. Reporters seen as not sufficiently sympathetic to the cause—which is defined by the Ten Demands for Justice, and includes most notably the abolition of the police—will be followed, be harassed, have their notes photographed and their phones blocked or stolen. (All these things have happened to me in the last month. A photographer friend has been repeatedly doxxed and placed on a list of “enemies.”)

    If you forget any of these rules, you can just refer to the handy Google spreadsheet of approved journalists and suggested behavior. The spreadsheet contains names, Twitter handles, and ways to financially support the journos who make the cut.

    Note who the people on this activist-approved list are writing for. Sergio Olmos, who made IPC’s list of approved journalists, is a man on the ground for The New York Times. Freelancer Robert Evans, whose early tick-tock of events on the ground I have admired, tweeted on July 19 that the burning of the Portland Police Association was “the single biggest win so far.” When questioned why, he replied that protesters have been “tear-gassed and beaten” for weeks. Unmentioned in his tweets: Protesters have been setting fire to the building for hours on many nights throughout the summer before a police response materializes.“

    Read it all.

    https://reason.com/2020/09/04/youre-not-allowed-to-film-the-fight-for-control-over-who-reports-from-portland/?__twitter_impression=true&amp&__twitter_impression=true
    _

    harkin (cd4502)

  7. 4. As for my personal issues, I’m not really okay. But I’m still alive, so there’s that.

    Gryph (f63000)

  8. Yes, let’s worry about South Dakota and not this:

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/sep/4/illegal-border-crossings-surge-coronavirus-fades-d/

    “Even a global pandemic will not stop them,” Customs and Border Protection chief Mark Morgan said in an update from the border in Texas.

    Almost all of the new arrivals who are caught are immediately expelled across the border under a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention order during the pandemic.

    But many of them are immediately turning around and trying again.

    Mr. Morgan said 11 CBP personnel have died from contracting COVID-19 while on duty, and more than 1,000 people in his agency are COVID-19-positive right now.

    He described one rescue Border Patrol agents made this week where an illegal immigrant trying to sneak deeper into the U.S. by jumping a train ended up in a grain hopper, dehydrated and unconscious. An agent had to lower himself down to make the rescue and physically hoist the migrant up through the roof.

    “And guess what? He tested positive for COVID,” Mr. Morgan said.

    The agent who made the rescue, as well as several others, are now in quarantine.

    But, Trump is president now so it’s on him, and anyway this problem goes away under Biden since he will “listen to the science” on Covid. Right? Actually, I’m pretty sure Biden’s plan is to appoint more crackpot open borders judges that have stymied Trump’s efforts.

    Trump should’ve shut down the border months ago, like Biden and the Dems demanded. Like the China travel ban. LOL

    beer ‘n pretzels (7f2992)

  9. so any city is a target, for susan rosenberg’s extortion scheme,

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/09/black-lives-matter-rioters-ransack-rochester-ny/

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  10. journolist two, electric boogaloo, meanwhile anyone who points any alternative viewpoint re rittenhouse is deplatformed or defunded,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  11. i want something stranger than reality, so I might go see tenet,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  12. re: “It absolutely kills me to say this, but we’re going to have to find the humanity in one another. In our quest to find the humanity in others, I don’t think we can start with people on the extreme fringes. We’re going to have to start with someone who’s just one click away from us and build some muscle.”

    Why should it kill you or anybody else to do something this reasonable?

    John B Boddie (bfc42b)

  13. Experts warn U.S. covid-19 deaths could more than double by year’s end
    The global death toll from the coronavirus pandemic could triple by year’s end, with an additional 1.9 million deaths, while a fall wave of infections could drive fatalities in the United States to 410,000, according to a new forecast from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington.

    The estimate reinforces warnings by many experts that cooler, drier weather and increased time spent indoors could boost viral transmission in the Northern Hemisphere surge this fall and winter — something typically seen with other respiratory viruses.
    ……..
    The U.S. death toll from covid-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus, now stands at 183,000, according to health data analyzed by The Washington Post. The IHME model projects that under the most likely scenario, 410,451 people in the United States will have died by Jan. 1.

    The best-case scenario is 288,381 deaths and worst-case is 620,029, that model forecasts.

    The scenarios pivot on human behavior and public policy. The best-case scenario would result from near-universal mask-wearing and the maintenance of social distancing and government mandates limiting the size of indoor gatherings. The worst-case scenario assumes that people and their communities stop taking precautions.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  14. South Dakota currently has the second highest per-capita rate of new COVID cases in the country; about three times the average rate of the nation as a whole. They were in the #1 spot last week, but North Dakota has edged past them.

    Dave (1bb933)

  15. yes we’re all gonna die, but meanwhile torch another city, why do i think fair caitlin’s twitter thread, might not be that copacetic,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  16. Covid-19 has killed more police officers this year than all other causes combined, data shows
    ………
    ………[A]ccording to data compiled by the Officer Down Memorial Page and the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, two nonprofits that have tracked law enforcement fatalities for decades.

    As of Sept. 2, on-the-job coronavirus infections were responsible for a least 100 officer deaths, more than gun violence, car accidents and all other causes combined, according to the Officer Down group. NLEOMF reported a nearly identical number of covid-related law enforcement deaths.
    ………
    Both organizations only count covid deaths “if it is determined that the officer died as a result of exposure to the virus while performing official duties,” as the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund put it. “Substantive evidence will be required to show the death was more than likely due to the direct and proximate result of a duty-related incident.”
    ……….
    At the state level, Texas stands out for having the highest number of law enforcement covid fatalities with at least 21, according to NLEOMF. At least 16 of those represent officers with the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, which manages the state’s correctional facilities. Louisiana has 12 covid-related officer deaths. Florida, New Jersey and Illinois round out the top five with eight each.
    …………
    Links to the datasets in the article. LEO deaths from COVID-19 are expected to exceed the total deaths from 9/11.

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  17. Presumption of innocence is a vital part of the American system of Justice. We can all be proud of our President applying it to Mr. Putin in the Navalny totally mysterious sudden illness case.

    Fred (da68eb)

  18. I thought the ambience of later stage Polo Grounds, Yankee Stadium 2, and pre-CHA implosion Comiskey Park was something that would just happen rather than having city fathers and the home team agree to it in advance:

    https://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/story/2020-09-04/angels-newser

    urbanleftbehind (53e610)

  19. Athena was a chaste goddess, but it’s too much to expect that Twitter would have heard of Astarte. The word for the day is ecdysiast. Dana, do you remember that post you did about the girl on the swim team who ran into trouble because her swimsuit was too skimpy?

    nk (1d9030)

  20. Yes, let’s worry about South Dakota and not this

    You know, it’s quite possible to be concerned about any number of things at any given time, bnp.

    Dana (292df6)

  21. Sounds like people are angry that Vicky Osterweil is not being cancelled.

    I mean, make no mistake, she’s a loon. But so is Cotton.

    john (cd2753)

  22. 17. I call bulls***t. That was *before* the numbers were revised down 94%.

    Gryph (f63000)

  23. 15. Hawaii is in the top-five, but you don’t hear much about them since they willing self-immolated, torching their own tourism industry. I have my own theories about why that may be, but it’s NOT because of economies reopening (which Hawaii really hasn’t yet).

    Gryph (f63000)

  24. Trump Calls for Firing of Fox News Reporter Who Confirmed President Disparaged Veterans

    President Donald Trump is calling for a Fox News reporter to be fired after she confirmed some details of a bombshell story that said he disparaged veterans.

    ……. Fox News national security reporter Jennifer Griffin wrote a Twitter thread and also went on the network to lay out how she had confirmed several claims in the piece, although not the specific allegations of what the president allegedly said about those buried in the French cemetery. But she did confirm with two former senior officials that he did not want to drive to honor those buried in the cemetery outside Paris.

    Griffin said she confirmed Trump didn’t think highly of those who served in the Vietnam War. “When the President spoke about the Vietnam War, he said, ‘It was a stupid war. Anyone who went was a sucker’,” her source said. The source added that Trump was confused about why anyone would join the service: “What’s in it for them? They don’t make any money.” She also claims the president said that the inclusion of “wounded guys” in a military parade was “not a good look” because “Americans don’t like that.” Griffin also reported Trump did not want flags to be lowered when Sen. John McCain died but later relented amid insistence from other officials.

    …….. Trump wrote late Friday that Griffin “should be fired for this kind of reporting,” alleging she never called the White House for comment. “@FoxNews is gone,” he added. Melania Trump also joined her husband in denying the story, a rare instance in which the first lady got involved in political issues. “This is not journalism – It is activism,” she tweeted. “And it is a disservice to the people of our great nation.”
    ………
    Another female reporter that Trump has trouble dealing with.

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  25. 14. Is that before, or after numbers are revised down 94%? SMDH

    Gryph (f63000)

  26. well the last incident, those crack spetznaz operators, much like deadpool’s gang, killed everyone but the target, where did navalny come in contact with the agent,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  27. @23-Gryph:

    When were the LEO numbers revised down by 94%?

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  28. https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/09/massachusetts-thousands-of-mail-in-ballots-found-days-after-the-election/

    Thousands of ballots turn up after the election. Who could’ve predicted it?

    Now just imagine this… on a national scale.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  29. 28. All deaths were revised downward by 94% last week, on account of the uncertainty of comorbidity. I guess you could say there were between 3000-180000 deaths attributed to CoViD-19, but only 6% of the number of deaths were without comorbidity.

    So, the question is, how many of those LEO who died so tragically, died *of* CoViD versus how many died *with* it, even though it wasn’t CoViD that actually killed them?

    Gryph (f63000)

  30. @26-Gryph:

    It’s the current projection after 6 months plus of experience with COVID-19, versus initial projections when the pandemic started. Projections are always revised based on experience.

    But you probably already knew that.

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  31. @30-
    Go to the article. There are links to the datasets.

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  32. https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/09/03/Vitamin-D-deficiency-raises-COVID-19-infection-risk-by-77-study-finds/7001599139929/

    And now for real science and not fear propaganda. Make sure you get your sunlight instead of hiding indoors like our masters demand.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  33. https://issuesinsights.com/2020/09/03/gaslighting-america-democrats-and-media-have-turned-it-up-to-11/

    Moby’s like the Lincoln Project and Jenny Rubin included with the democrats.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  34. https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/goya-ceo-trump-rising-latinos-because-immigrants-dont-come-tear

    The reason why Trump will end up increasing his share of minority votes come November.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  35. So, QAnon believes that there is a conspiracy at work within the government to thwart Trump at every turn and to diss him at every opportunity.

    What amazes me is that the folks loudest in denouncing QAnon are those who generally wish to thwart Trump at every turn and who diss him at every oppotunity. Many of them also subscribe to the “Putin’s puppet” conspiracy theory without an inkling of irony.

    I have no problem with GOP politicians willing to call out Democrat extremists. I would wish they would do so from a place of sanity, but that ship may have sailed.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  36. https://www.foxnews.com/us/ohio-us-marshals-service-operation-safety-net-25-missing-children

    And in real news, but not worthy of the Twits on Twitter…

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  37. 32. I read the article and followed the link to the datasets. It doesn’t differentiate.

    31. Yes, I knew that. And 94% of “CoViD Deaths” have comorbidity. I can look any random person straight in the eye, tell them “CoViD-19 probably won’t kill you,” and more likely than not be correct.

    Gryph (f63000)

  38. The wedding in SW Minnesota that spread love and other stuff, where 1+257+0=56:

    In a departure for the normally tight-lipped health officials, at Thursday’s news conference state Director of Infectious Disease Kris Ehresmann noted how one indoor wedding in southwest Minnesota had more guests than allowed (275), an event with no masks that has now produced 56 cases in nine counties.

    And there was an apparent Sturgis connection.

    Ehresmann also revealed health officials’ recent discovery via contact tracing that a participant in the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally in South Dakota last month, a gathering itself associated with a cluster of cases, had gone on to attend a wedding in Minnesota.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  39. Sounds like people are angry that Vicky Osterweil is not being cancelled.

    I mean, make no mistake, she’s a loon. But so is Cotton.

    john (cd2753) — 9/5/2020 @ 9:05 am

    I think America’s junk drawer is big enough to hold more than one loon at a time. I think that the anger is that NPR did listeners/readers a big disservice by not pushing back against her outrageous claims (and her anti-Semitism), and instead just did this little softball interview about what is clearly an outrageous position, and one that the vast majority of Americans obviously don’t buy.

    Dana (292df6)

  40. Gryph is parroting the latest morsel of Trump/QAnon disinformation, and proving he’s innumerate, dishonest, or both.

    President Donald Trump has once again amplified a bogus coronavirus misinformation campaign — this time by retweeting a QAnon supporter’s false claim against the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that only 6% of recorded COVID-19 deaths are actually due to the disease, while the other 94% are falsified.

    Where we go one, we go all, right Gryph?

    More debunking of Gryph’s lie:

    CDC Did Not ‘Admit Only 6%’ of Recorded Deaths from COVID-19

    Dave (1bb933)

  41. Trump should add FoxNews pollsters to Jennifer Griffin on the list folks he wants fired at American Pravda. The post-convention “fake suppression polls” have Biden at +8 in Wisconsin, and +9 in Arizona, and +4 in North Carolina.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  42. https://campusreform.org/?ID=15578

    How is this racist allowed to be a professor and indoctrinate our young?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  43. What amazes me is that the folks loudest in denouncing QAnon are those who generally wish to thwart Trump at every turn and who diss him at every oppotunity.

    In other words, “sane people”.

    Dave (1bb933)

  44. 35 -NJ, our one local test of that theory will be the 4th or 5th annual parade of cars with Mexican regalia that drives in front of the Trump building in downtown the Saturday night before Mexican Independence Day (9/12 this year). If it’s a low # of cars participating, you may be correct.

    Also if one minority group starts ratcheting up Trump support in a big way, the other ones may do so also, just to not to be tagged as the loser group.

    urbanleftbehind (53e610)

  45. You know, it’s quite possible to be concerned about any number of things at any given time, bnp.

    It’s possible, but not evident.

    Harp on little South Dakota and ignore a 1500 mile porous border with Latin America, because the former has a Trump friendly Republican governor and the latter will get worse under Biden. It’s not complicated.

    beer ‘n pretzels (4bef1a)

  46. we have to pretend that captain oveur is a functioning person, much less a viable candidate,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  47. Trump should add FoxNews pollsters to Jennifer Griffin on the list folks he wants fired at American Pravda.

    He’s on top of it Paul. Try to keep up.

    @FoxNews Polls are, as in the past, Fake News. They have been from the beginning, way off in 2016. Get a new pollster. I believe we are leading BIG!

    Dave (1bb933)

  48. I feel sorry for John Kelly, who has been put in an excruciatingly painful position as people demand that he either confirm or deny what Trump said in 2017 Memorial Day visit to Arlington Cemetery. I imagine it stirs up the pain of losing his son in Afghanistan. And now that he is the focal point of Trump’s attacks, it’s got to be pretty brutal for him. He may have been a Marine, but he is a father who is having one of the most personally devastating moments of his life ripped open.

    Dana (292df6)

  49. 43. That’s not what I said, Dave. Try again. What I said was, the numbers of deaths definitively caused by CoViD-19 was revised downward by 94% because of the uncertainty of the role of comorbidities. I also conceded upthread that one could plausibly say that CoViD-19 deaths are between 3000-180,000 given that uncertainty, but a spread of 177,000 deaths of uncertain cause seems like shaky ground to base policy on; especially when that policy destroys an economy.

    And this isn’t some sort of Q-anon inspired rambling on my part. I’ve been saying since April, here and elsewhere, that “we just don’t know” isn’t a good enough excuse to me to act on that doubt.

    Gryph (f63000)

  50. The orange lies will be coming fast and furious for the next two months. Secure your PPE.

    nk (1d9030)

  51. one could plausibly say that CoViD-19 deaths are between 3000-180,000

    You’re as dishonest as Trump or as fruity as QAnon. Or both.

    Dave (1bb933)

  52. You know, it’s quite possible to be concerned about any number of things at any given time, bnp.

    It’s possible, but not evident.

    Harp on little South Dakota and ignore a 1500 mile porous border with Latin America, because the former has a Trump friendly Republican governor and the latter will get worse under Biden. It’s not complicated.

    beer ‘n pretzels (4bef1a) — 9/5/2020 @ 9:40 am

    You do realize that this is an “open thread,” right? That means you are free to link to any story you think would be of interest to readers. When I put together an open thread, I read as much as time allows, and try to put up a wide-range of stories. FTR, I hadn’t read about the COVID story at the border that you posted in the open thread for everyone to read. Now, I am aware of the situation, so thank you for that. I would just ask that next time you share a story with us, you do without directive snarky criticism at me for not having read what you have read, or posting what *you* believe is more important. Why did you assume the worst about me: that I had a political ax to grind by posting about SD and not the border story? Why not give me the benefit of the doubt and just assume what is reasonable and true: I didn’t know about it because I hadn’t read about it.

    Dana (292df6)

  53. 54. Dishonest? You can’t accuse me of simply being incorrect; you have to make it personal. Okay. Let’s say deaths caused by CoViD-19 are approaching 200,000. What do you propose we should do about it? Make people wear masks? Isolate ourselves by shutting down our economy? Just what do you propose that hasn’t been done already?

    Gryph (f63000)

  54. Athena was a chaste goddess, but it’s too much to expect that Twitter would have heard of Astarte. The word for the day is ecdysiast. Dana, do you remember that post you did about the girl on the swim team who ran into trouble because her swimsuit was too skimpy?

    nk (1d9030) — 9/5/2020 @ 9:03 am

    If I was a black woman in BLM, I would have been completely outraged by the little white street-stripper slutting it up for attention and and diminishing any worthy goals that some protesters had of marching for racial justice.

    Dana (292df6)

  55. Start your own blog, beer ‘n pretzels!

    nk (1d9030)

  56. Presumption of innocence is a vital part of the American system of Justice. We can all be proud of our President applying it to Mr. Putin in the Navalny totally mysterious sudden illness case.

    Mr. Putin does not reside in the United States, so we’re not obligated to presume his innocence legally or politically, and because the nerve agent was traced to a Soviet-developed nerve agent, Novichok, and since Putin has a well-documented history of poisoning people he doesn’t like, it’s more than fair to say that Putin is responsible for the attempted assassination of his chief political opponent. Trump was not only dead silent in criticizing Putin for attempted murder, he stupidly and dishonestly said, “It is interesting that everybody is always mentioning Russia…”
    No, we can’t be proud of this president at all.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  57. 54. Your tendancy towards slandering me is noted.

    Gryph (f63000)

  58. 51.I feel sorry for John Kelly, who has been put in an excruciatingly painful position as people demand that he either confirm or deny what Trump said in 2017 Memorial Day visit to Arlington Cemetery.

    This goes w/t turf of being ‘in the arena.’ If he has been a whispering source, there’s nothing dishonorable in confirming or denying. These old military brass are retired; no ‘code’ prevents them from talking– plenty do commentary spin on the various cablers– most ‘under contract’ for a fee. Problem is for these ex-Trump officials [even ex-Trump wives and business people,] is getting into a pissing contest w/t CIC– in a book or on-the-record-interview– is a no win situation. It simply distracts, becomes just another ‘entertainment episode’ dumed into the cycle for the cable audience– and feeds their 24/7 hungry ‘Beast’. It’s ‘win-the-battle-lose-the-war’ thing for these guys.

    The truth is already out there…

    “It is what it is.”

    And, of course, the classic: “No miracle is coming.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  59. I take most of these unsourced unprovable even by foia documentation charges with a grain of salt, so the atlantic was sloppy, well they did fire kevin williamson didn’t they, and haven’t really hired anyone to make up for that, they were caught in a flagrant and incendiary story, some weeks back, goldberg has to pretend to be more woke then say amanda ‘human sacrifice’ mull, or she might eat him, if sullivan still worked there, they would cancel him like they did at new york magazine, or james bennett at the times,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  60. Gryph, these latest false claims of yours are not isolated or new. You say stuff that’s false all the time. I and many others have tried to reason with you in the past, without success.

    Your last response encourages me though, so let’s try to build on it.

    Concerning what to do, I’d say a good place to start is doing what the vast majority of other rich, developed countries, who have the virus much better controlled than us, did.

    I think the science-based recommendations the White House task force published in mid-April (and which Trump started working to sabotage the very next day) would have led to a much better outcome, if they had been followed.

    Doctors aren’t infallible, but specialists in infectious diseases are more knowledgeable about this problem than anyone else. We should stop second-guessing them and start encouraging people to follow their advice.

    Working to beat this so we can get back to a normal life and kids can have normal childhoods is the patriotic thing to do, the moral thing to do, and the smart thing to do.

    Dave (1bb933)

  61. isn’t it curious they are for total lockdown, and also totally on board with the destruction of major cities, which is the logical extent of the mindset put forward by their other star ta nesi coates, who sees nothing about america worth salvaging, he has a pretense to be baldwin, without the cred,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  62. (By “last response,” I meant 56, not 60)

    Dave (1bb933)

  63. I watched Scott Atlas on Smerconish this AM, and he’s a weaselly sumbitch. On one side of his mouth he denies that the White House has a herd immunity strategy and on the other side of his mouth he’s extolling New York for having reached “population immunity”. That’s not the kind of mixed messaging a president should be hearing, especially for a president who doesn’t listen or read good.
    Atlas also had some strong language on death-toll estimates, saying things like “wildly wrong” and “absurd” and so forth. Taking a stroll through recent history, Forbes had a May Day piece on estimated deaths from the virus, and it’s almost quaint.

    Just to be clear: In mid-April, IHME was projecting that the U.S. would achieve 95% containment of COVID-19 by May 5, and 100% containment by August 4. May 5 is almost here.
    In respect to total deaths, in mid-April, the IHME revised its projection down, from 68,841 to 60,308. On April 30, IHME revised its projection of total deaths on August 4 up again, to 72,433 with a confidence interval of 59,343 and 114,228. This upward revision is an expected consequence of IHME’s earlier projections having been unrealistically optimistic.

    On August 4th, the actual death toll was 160,620, well outside their confidence interval. Because we’ve come nowhere close to containment, Dr. Atlas is half right: The estimates were “wildly wrong” in that they were wildly understated. The IMHE predicted yesterday that 410,000 Americans will die from CV19 by year end assuming we as a nation stay the course on precautions. We’ll see how “wildly wrong” their estimates really are.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  64. so the countries that locked down the most, had less spread, is that why peru is at the top of the list, why new zealand is delaying the election, for months,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  65. Dave,

    you constantly attack anyone that doesn’t walk in lockstep with your personal opinion. Gryph is correct when he says that only a few thousand people have died solely of the Wuhan Flu. Most have multiple co-morbidities that led to their death if they weren’t killed by another issue entirely and then counted as a Flu death anyway.

    But you do that all the time. Then pretend you’re the victim. Stop badgering people. State your case and move on.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  66. 63. I’m one step ahead of you then, Dave. I am living the most normal life I can surrounded by a bunch of feckless, quasi-enslaved cowards. It’s one thing to say I am incorrect and point out my errors. To call me dishonest because I don’t trust bureaucrats says more about your character than it says about mine.

    66. Some states have come closer to containment than others. New York and California are actually among those states that have functionally contained the virus. South Dakota and Hawaii are among those states that have not. I have theories about why that might be, mostly involving demographics and population spread, but I’m sure to elaborate on them here will just invite more accusations of dishonesty.

    Gryph (f63000)

  67. If General Gavin could go on the record, so can any of the retired, whispering, Trump brass:

    PATTON LABELS TROOPS ‘DUMB BASTARDS’

    Oh my… what today’s interweb weenies could do with that. And, it’s not just a line from the 1970 film: it is true. Confirmed by troops assembled at the time and on the record by Lt. General George Gavin:

    ‘The earliest published evidence known… appeared in the 1958 book “War and Peace in the Space Age” by Lt. General James M. Gavin. The author stated that he and other military personnel heard an address by Patton shortly before leaving Africa in 1943. Boldface has been added to excerpts:

    “George Patton’s last words to us before we left Africa came home with meaning: ‘No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country.’

    The speech was not publicized contemporaneously because of war time restrictions on information and because it contained language that was considered coarse for the era. Patton delivered many speeches during the war and some of the soldiers who heard his words recounted them in the following years. Unsurprisingly, the precise phrasing of the quotation under examination varied in these accounts.

    [T]he speech [was] delivered on 31 May 1944, while addressing the U.S. 6th Armored Division, when he began with a remark that would later be among his most famous: “No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.”‘

    And how is this for irony: “In 1965 James M. Gavin published an article in “The Atlantic” magazine about his wartime experiences which again recounted the event.” – sources, quoteinvestigator/com & wikiPattonthirdarmyspeech

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  68. Gryph, on multiple occasions you said “the numbers were revised down 94%” and the like. To put it charitably, your comment is misleading. To put it uncharitably, your comment is dishonest. It’s QAnon propaganda. You and others have been fact-checked.

    The following morning, Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, clarified what the CDC data mean.
    He noted that the 6% figure includes cases where COVID-19 was listed as the only cause of death. “That does not mean that someone who has hypertension or diabetes who dies of Covid didn’t die of Covid-19. They did,” Fauci said on ABC’s “Good Morning America.”
    “So the numbers you’ve been hearing — the 180,000-plus deaths — are real deaths from Covid-19. Let [there] not be any confusion about that,” Fauci said.

    Trumpalistas and others who fell for that 94% garbage are taking the completely wrong message from the 94% narrative. The right message is that folks with underlying health conditions need to take extra care and they need to be extra vigilant with social distancing. Those without underlying health conditions face way better odds of not perishing if they catch the virus, but they can still spread it to individuals with compromised health if the healthy ones don’t take precautions.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  69. https://americanmind.org/features/the-racial-marxism-of-blm/the-communist-roots-of-white-privilege/

    No surprise, but pushing the cultural marxism that is “white privilege” is actually pushing the communist agenda.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  70. And just a reminder that NY, NJ and Mass have had 12% of the cases, but 30% of the deaths. They killed their old, their infirm and their weak and were rewarded and praised for it by the left and the media.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  71. To call me dishonest because I don’t trust bureaucrats says more about your character than it says about mine.

    I call you dishonest because you constantly say things that aren’t true.

    COVID flat-earthers and deniers like you are (in aggregate) the main reason why America is still being ravaged by this disease while the rest of the first-world has it much better controlled.

    Dave (1bb933)

  72. So, if (Allah forfend) Orange leader contracts Covid what he’ll really need to worry about are his bone spurs?

    nk (1d9030)

  73. Comparative analysis is not allowed

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  74. 72. Well, were the numbers not revised down? The truth of the matter is, most people who die with CoViD probably don’t die from it. Something on the order of 94%, it’s fair to say. I’m telling you that as far as I’m concerned, that’s a good reason to not be scared. The bureaucrats (and some commenters here, I might add) are spinning it as a reason to be more scared.

    There are just three things I know for sure:

    1. I, you, and everybody else reading this will die at some point.

    2. There is a non-zero chance that we might die of CoViD-19

    3. The chance of dying of CoViD-19 specifically is small enough that I don’t fear it.

    What it boils down to is, people think I’m dumb because of point #3. I think people who do fear CoViD-19 are sheep and deserve whatever they get from the bureaucrats good and hard. It boils down to a difference-of-opinion. And I can handle that. When your grandma dies of a stroke and gets tallied as a CoViD-19 fatality, blame me all you want.

    Gryph (f63000)

  75. 75. That makes me incorrect, not dishonest. So GFY, sheep.

    Gryph (f63000)

  76. 75. And, not all of America is being “ravaged” by CoViD. All of America is being ravaged by drug overdose deaths and car accidents, but transmission rates vary widely between states and sometimes even from county-to-county. Your sensationalist bulls**t is just that: bulls**t.

    Gryph (f63000)

  77. What it boils down to is, people think I’m dumb because of point #3.

    That’s not why I think you’re dumb.

    Dave (1bb933)

  78. 72. Well, were the numbers not revised down? The truth of the matter is, most people who die with CoViD probably don’t die from it. Something on the order of 94%, it’s fair to say. I’m telling you that as far as I’m concerned, that’s a good reason to not be scared.

    No, they weren’t “revised down”, Gryph, they were categorized, and you keep partaking in this bogus narrative that taking precautions equates to fear, which is an invidious overgeneralization. Personally (and I think I speak for millions of others), I don’t put on a mask out of fear, I do it out of courtesy.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  79. Personally (and I think I speak for millions of others), I don’t put on a mask out of fear, I do it out of courtesy.

    I do it so people won’t think I’m from South Dakota.

    nk (1d9030)

  80. Taking another walk down recent memory lane

    “And so, if we could hold that down, as we’re saying, to 100,000 – it’s a horrible number, maybe even less, but to 100,000, so we have between 100 [thousand] and 200,000 – we altogether have done a very good job.”

    The number as of right now is 192,425 so, um, not a “very good job”. Terrible job, actually. Earlier this week, on Wednesday, Trump said

    “We’ve done a great job on COVID, but we don’t get the credit,” Trump told Fox News host Laura Ingraham during an interview that originally aired Monday evening.

    Uh, right. I may be going out on a limb here, but I’m pretty sure he’ll say on November 2nd that he’s done a fantastic job with the virus. I’m not confident on predicting on who’ll win, but I’m confident about that.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  81. @74-NJRob:
    They killed their old, their infirm and their weak and were rewarded and praised for it by the left and the media.

    Who praised the deaths of the elderly? I can’t find anyone who thought it was good.

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  82. @86
    Funny thing is, the Trumpsters have been the ones saying “It’s mostly just people over 65 dying. What’s the big deal?”

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  83. Personally (and I think I speak for millions of others), I don’t put on a mask out of fear, I do it out of courtesy.

    I do it so people won’t think I’m from South Dakota.

    nk (1d9030) — 9/5/2020 @ 11:28 am

    Dying.

    Dana (292df6)

  84. States with the highest per capita deaths:

    New Jersey 180
    New York 153
    Massachusetts 133
    Connecticut 125
    Louisiana 108

    Some low-density states:

    Idaho 23
    North Dakota 21
    South Dakota 20
    Utah 14
    Montana 11
    Wyoming 7 –
    Alaska 6

    Guess why these latter states have laxer policies.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  85. Rino govna Parker from ma. is 3rd in the nation in killing old people and vets.
    Were number 1 in unemployment.
    He is probably hoping Mr. Frosty dies so he can name himself senator.

    mg (8cbc69)

  86. Govna baker is known as Govna Parker because that’s what Joe Hiden calls him.

    mg (8cbc69)

  87. That was *before* the numbers were revised down 94%.

    Revised downward by innumerate people who didn’t know what the F they were talking about. Guess what, if an 80yo gets double interstitial pneumonia after contracting Covid, they died of Covid.

    To hear the Trumpists talk, if you were in a plane crash and broke your back in three places, but were killed by septicemia after 6 weeks in the hospital, the plane crash was just coincidental.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  88. DHS draft document: White supremacists are greatest terror threat
    White supremacists present the gravest terror threat to the United States, according to a draft report from the Department of Homeland Security.

    Two later draft versions of the same document — all of which were reviewed by POLITICO — describe the threat from white supremacists in slightly different language. But all three drafts describe the threat from white supremacists as the deadliest domestic terror threat facing the U.S., listed above the immediate danger from foreign terrorist groups.
    …….
    Russia “probably will be the primary covert foreign influence actor and purveyor of disinformation and misinformation in the Homeland,” the documents also say.
    …….
    None of the drafts POLITICO reviewed referred to a threat from Antifa, the loose cohort of militant left-leaning agitators who senior Trump administration officials have described as domestic terrorists. Two of the drafts refer to extremists trying to exploit the “social grievances” driving lawful protests.
    …….
    “ Lone offenders and small cells of individuals motivated by a diverse array of social, ideological, and personal factors will pose the primary terrorist threat to the United States,” the draft reads. “Among these groups, we assess that white supremacist extremists – who increasingly are networking with likeminded persons abroad – will pose the most persistent and lethal threat.”
    ……..
    “We judge that ideologically-motivated lone offenders and small groups will pose the greatest terrorist threat to the Homeland through 2021, with white supremacist extremists presenting the most lethal threat,” it reads.

    ……… All three drafts contain the following sentence further down in the same section: “Among DVEs [Domestic Violent Extremists], we judge that white supremacist extremists (WSEs) will remain the most persistent and lethal threat in the Homeland through 2021.”
    ……….
    “Violent extremists almost certainly will continue their efforts to exploit public fears associated with COVID-19 and social grievances driving lawful protests to incite violence, intimidate targets, and promote their violent extremist ideologies,” the second and third drafts reviewed by POLITICO say. “Simple tactics – such as vehicle ramming, small arms, edged weapons, arson, and rudimentary improvised explosive devices – probably will be most common.”
    ……….
    “ Among DVE [domestic violent extremist] actors, WSEs [white supremacist extremists] conducted half of all lethal attacks (8 of 16), resulting in the majority of deaths (39 of 48),” the drafts read.
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  89. Rino govna Parker from ma. is 3rd in the nation in killing old people and vets.

    1) Anyone nominated as a Republican is a Republican in fact. It is not just people mg likes (the GOP would be a tiny minor party if that was the rule).

    2) The governor killed no one. Probably never left his office. The state health bureaucracy killed people, and it’s not like they cared what the governor thought.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  90. 94 – so Trump didn’t kill anyone? News to me from the schiff typed here.

    mg (8cbc69)

  91. 94 – being unenrolled keeps me going

    mg (8cbc69)

  92. In other words, “sane people”.

    You seem to have ignored the juxtaposition in my original comment. Also, the irony, which slipped right past you as I said it would.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  93. Just what do you propose that hasn’t been done already?

    We could put the core of Trump’s supporters in medical confinement. That would probably do it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  94. To hear the Trumpists talk, if you were in a plane crash and broke your back in three places, but were killed by septicemia after 6 weeks in the hospital, the plane crash was just coincidental.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/5/2020 @ 12:26 pm

    You have it backward Kevin:

    To hear the paranoid talk: if you have stage 4 terminal cancer, but contract the virus, the virus is the reason you died and the cancer is just incidental.

    NJRob (d445a7)

  95. 99. Well I’m not a Trump supporter, so there is that.

    100. I can be a Trump skeptic (“hater” is such an ugly word) and still think that the virus probably won’t kill me (or anyone I know).

    Gryph (f63000)

  96. Personally (and I think I speak for millions of others), I don’t put on a mask out of fear, I do it out of courtesy.

    Considering that’s THE ENTIRE EFFING POINT of wearing a mask — it’s not to protect the wearer from others, it’s to protect others from the wearer.

    Covid is pernicious; one is infectuous several days before any symptoms appear, and in mild cases those symptoms may not be obvious to anyone, but the individual can still infect others. The best way to prevent that is to prevent expectoration — cough, sneeze, water vapor on exhale.

    Nearly any full mask will do this. If you don’t pitch, no one need catch.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  97. if you have stage 4 terminal cancer, but contract the virus, the virus is the reason you died and the cancer is just incidental.

    If you could have been expected to life another 6 months with the cancer, yes indeed Covid is the cause of death. I know people who are battling serious cancers. They are ambulatory and productive, but their health is precarious and their immune system is overworked as it is. If they got the flu and it killed them, it would be the flu that killed them. If they stumbled off a cliff it would be the fall that killed them. Get it?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  98. 102. So you do put it on out of fear — fear that you will infect others. I just don’t go places that require masks. Then again, I’ve always been a homebody so it’s not like avoiding mask wearing has been that big of an imposition on me. I just stick to my local hometown grocer. 😀

    Gryph (f63000)

  99. 103. Now you’re wading in territory that Doctors won’t even tread. It’s not Q-Anon, it’s the freaking Center for Disease Control — the CDC for those of you in Rio Linda — who has said that 94% of the number of “CoViD Deaths” may be of uncertain cause due to comorbidity! You wanna be scared, fine. You wanna be proud of your fear, strut like peacock. But don’t pretend that you’re doing all this garbage out of “courtesy,” like you’re some kind of good Samaritan. I don’t buy it.

    Gryph (f63000)

  100. Multiple boats in distress, sinking at Trump Boat Parade on Lake Travis
    Multiple 911 calls have been made regarding boats being in distress, some sinking at the ‘Trump Boat Parade’ scheduled for Saturday afternoon on Lake Travis, according to the Travis County (TX) Sheriff’s Office.

    TCSO confirmed with CBS Austin that multiple boats have been sinking and are in distress.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  101. But don’t pretend that you’re doing all this garbage out of “courtesy,” like you’re some kind of good Samaritan. I don’t buy it.

    That’s literally what this is. If you run around older folks without a mask on you’ll terrify them. Hell, just avoiding making them scared, that result on its own, is more than worth it. The only reason this isn’t some act of great compassion is that wearing a mask is so easy. Compared to all the other costs of this year, the mask is nothing to me. I’m no hero for doing so little, obviously.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  102. Review Of Federal Charges In Portland Unrest Shows Most Are Misdemeanors
    ……..
    On Fox News this week, Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf admonished state and local leaders there and elsewhere for failing to restore law and order, and he touted the administration’s response.

    “We’ve seen about 300 arrests across this country regarding civil unrest and protest, violent protesting, I’d say criminal protesting, criminal rioting,” Wolf said. “About 100 of those have been in Portland specifically, and I know the Department of Justice has charged about 74 or 75 individuals in Portland there with different federal crimes.”
    ………
    But an NPR review of the federal cases brought in Portland shows that the majority of the charges are for what could be considered minor offenses.
    ……..
    Of those cases charged, 11 are for citations and 42 are for misdemeanors, meaning that more than 70% of the total charged cases are not felonies.
    ………
    A class C misdemeanor is one step above a citation and is punishable by no more than one month in jail. In Portland, at least 19 people face class C misdemeanor charges for allegedly failing to comply with a lawful order.
    ………
    The class A misdemeanor cases in Portland have typically involved an alleged assault of a federal officer but without physical contact. Such a case could involve, for example, verbally abusing an officer or pretending to throw an object.

    These sorts of misdemeanors are punishable by no more than one year in prison.
    ……..
    Federal prosecutors have brought more serious felony charges against those they say engaged in the violence — 20 cases as of late last week, according to NPR’s review of the court papers.
    ……..
    None of the court documents from federal cases in Portland reference antifa or any sort of broader anti-fascist movement or conspiracy.
    ………
    Trump didn’t realize his story of planeloads of black clothed thugs flying around the country were the unidentified federal agents sent out by AG Barr.

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  103. I’ve added one more news item to the post because it’s relevant and revealing.

    Dana (292df6)

  104. Thinking about it another way, and going by the numbers here, out of 153,504 total CV19 deaths, 144,294 had underlying conditions. Had none of that 144,294 contracted the virus, most would be alive today. It’s why they count as CV19 deaths.

    Paul Montagu (63ea64)

  105. Trump didn’t realize his story of planeloads of black clothed thugs flying around the country were the unidentified federal agents sent out by AG Barr.

    Rip let’s his black bloc Antifa flag fly.

    You must be taking Reinoehl’s death hard, Rip. Reinoehl’s gun charge would’ve counted as one of those overhyped misdemeanors, had it not been dropped. Thanks to your Democrat style law and order, he got the message, reoffended and two people are dead.

    beer ‘n pretzels (27da31)

  106. Had none of that 144,294 contracted the virus, most would be alive today. It’s why they count as CV19 deaths.

    Yeah, for example, Tom Seaver would still be enjoying late stage Lewy Body Dementia.

    beer ‘n pretzels (27da31)

  107. what’s the word for ‘rule by judges’

    http://carolineglick.com/the-rat-in-israeli-public-life/

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  108. How many Americans have died from protests and riots this year? Now, since their cases have quadrupled, try to calculate how many more folks will die from the recent increase in Covid-19 cases…. in South Dakota…. alone?

    noel (9fead1)

  109. what’s the word for ‘rule by judges’

    Sanhedrin.

    nk (1d9030)

  110. naked athena/2024

    mg (8cbc69)

  111. the greek word,

    https://dailycaller.com/2020/09/04/peter-strzok-christopher-steele-dossier/

    the man has no shame,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  112. Sanhedrin is a Greek word, local dialect of synedrion, conference, literally “seats (of office) together”.

    nk (1d9030)

  113. what would it take for them to ban say the rose city club appendage,

    https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/09/04/facebook-purges-patriot-prayer-after-member-killed-by-antifa/

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  114. Nixon’s southern strategy that reagan latched on to thanks to lee atwater was to separate the southern white trash democrats from the democratic party to get working class white to vote for the party of the rich with their hippo critical support of white trash social issues. (pro life dubya drives his girl friend to n.y. to get abortion) The wealthy economic libertarian conservative’s money would finance their candidates who would give lip service to white trash social issues abortion, guns, anti gay ect. to further free trade agenda of the rich. Starting with the tea party (who were a mish mash of groups) in 2010 and trump taking over the republican party populists not free trade libertarian conservatives run the republican party. You anti-populists belong in the libertarian party.

    asset (c3474f)

  115. https://www.mcda.us/index.php/documents/state-of-oregon-vs-michael-forest-reinoehl-affidavits-warrant-da-info.pdf/

    Turns out the dead guy didn’t spray the murderer with pepper spray provoking the shooting. That was a ridiculous claim made by one of the less informed commenters here. The criminal shot the defender’s pepper spray canister mid-assassination.

    BuDuh (a028b8)

  116. Yeah, for example, Tom Seaver would still be enjoying late stage Lewy Body Dementia.

    Indeed, and Hermain Cain would’ve been campaigning for Trump while having a heart condition if weren’t stone dead from CV19.
    And Roy of Siegfried & Roy would’ve not been definitely dead, instead of just dealing with the aftermath of a stroke and getting mauled by a big cat.
    And John Prine would still be playing music, surviving lung cancer, if he’d not passed on from the COVID.
    Your point is what exactly, beer, that Seaver might as well be dead already?

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  117. BnP #111-
    You obviously don’t understand sarcasm, and I couldn’t care less about Reinoehl.

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  118. Dave,

    you constantly attack anyone that doesn’t walk in lockstep with your personal opinion. Gryph is correct when he says that only a few thousand people have died solely of the Wuhan Flu. Most have multiple co-morbidities that led to their death if they weren’t killed by another issue entirely and then counted as a Flu death anyway.

    NJRob,

    This is disinformation as stated by Dave in comment 72.

    If I push over an 80 year old lady and she died as a result of the push, but a healthy 20-year-old would not have died from the same push, you can trying spewing a line of horseshit that says she didn’t just die from the push, she died from the push and also being old and frail, but the fact that you can make that argument (and probably would if it were Trump doing the pushing) does not make your argument any less horseshit.

    Don’t whine about getting called out when you make arguments like that. Anyone who makes an argument like that deserves to get called out, and harshly.

    Patterico (98df0d)

  119. If Trump really wants to end the violence in Portland, he shouldn’t have pulled out the federal LEOs without replacing them with a more effective force.

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  120. I like boats that don’t sink:

    Several boats taking part in a Trump support parade on Lake Travis in Texas have sunk, officials said Saturday.

    The Travis County Sheriff’s Office tweeted that it responded to multiple calls involving boats in distress during the parade.

    Dave (1bb933)

  121. I guess antifa has submarines now.

    Dave (1bb933)

  122. Lies, damn lies, and (mind-boggingly stupid) statistics. I hear Trump arguing Covid deaths like an insurance company argues common-carrier accident policies. If you crawl out of the wreck, then bleed to death, you died from lack of blood, not the crash. So sorry.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  123. “Sturgis = NOT a superspreader” writes Gryph.

    Take a look at the Black Hills counties (Pennington, Meade and Lawrence Counties) before and after the Sturgis Rally, Gryph. Tell me what you see?

    Well, I have been keeping track for you. They had about 170 cases before the rally. Today? 692. Of course the vast majority of bikers aren’t even from the area.

    Congratulations.

    noel (9fead1)

  124. Several boats taking part in a Trump support parade on Lake Travis in Texas have sunk

    Cowardly boats.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  125. Yeah, for example, Tom Seaver would still be enjoying late stage Lewy Body Dementia.

    And your point? Do you think you could have shot him and gotten away with it?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  126. 31. Swift boated?! 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  127. ^131.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  128. 130. Out of nearly 450,000 individuals, this does not meet the CDC’s definition of a superspreader event. If it did, it would be all over the news.

    Gryph (f63000)

  129. BIDEN GOT 5 DRAFT DEFERMENTS DURING NAM, AS DID CHENEY
    By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS – August 31, 2008

    DOVER, Del. – Democratic vice presidential nominee Joe Biden received five student draft deferments during the Vietnam War, the same number of deferments received by Vice President Dick Cheney, and later was disqualified from service because of asthma that he suffered as a teenager.

    Officials with Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama’s campaign released Biden’s Selective Service records at the request of The Associated Press. Less detailed records were available from a National Archives facility in Philadelphia.

    According to the documents, Biden, [then] 65, received several deferments while he was an undergraduate at the University of Delaware and later as a law student at Syracuse University. [Now you know why he begged not to get expelled from law school for getting caught committing plagiarism– a grunting he would go!] A month after a physical exam in April 1968, Biden received a Selective Service classification of 1-Y, meaning he was available for service only in the event of national emergency.

    “As a result of a physical exam on April 5, 1968, Joe Biden was classified 1-Y and disqualified from service because of asthma as a teenager,” said David Wade, a campaign spokesman.

    In “Promises to Keep,” a memoir that was published last year [2007], Biden never mentions his asthma, recounting an active childhood, work as a lifeguard and football exploits in high school.

    The Obama campaign pointed to media interviews from 1987, when Biden was making his first bid for the presidency, that mention his asthma.

    Military service and questions about which presidential ticket would be stronger on national security are intertwined in the presidential race. Republican John McCain, a former Navy pilot who spent 5 1/2 years in a Vietnamese prison, has argued that he has stronger background to be commander in chief. Democratic nominee Obama counters that McCain would continue a wrongheaded foreign policy from the Bush administration.

    Biden’s five student deferments equal the number given to Cheney, who has been quoted as saying he had “other priorities” than military service in the 1960s.

    “Who does he think he is?!” – Plagiarist JoeyBee 9/4/2020

    Idiot.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  130. Yeah Biden’s not getting any respect for his bravery, courage, service. I know elected office is ‘public service’ but let’s be real.

    I am amused DCSCA, that you’re calling Biden an idiot for dodging the draft, given some of your recent comments about suckers. But whatever you’re on a roll. Should Biden be elected he will deserve more scrutiny than he probably gets.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  131. The Boston Globe
    @BostonGlobe

    Northeastern University has dismissed 11 first-year students after they were caught violating social distancing rules, the school announced Friday. Their $36,500 tuition for the semester will not be refunded.
    _ _

    I’m guessing it wasn’t for attending a protest.
    _

    harkin (cd4502)

  132. @137. No, Dustin– he’s an idiot for ‘going there’ with his ‘who doee he think he is’ crack and calling attention to himself on this. He has a very ‘beau’-regard for himself. Except crutch Beau went- voluntarily.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  133. “ If I push over an 80 year old lady and she died as a result of the push, but a healthy 20-year-old would not have died from the same push,”
    _

    That’s doesn’t seem like a very good analogy.

    I have no idea which numbers are correct but they’ve been listing the Wuhan Virus as cause of death for people who merely tested positive but died with no symptoms of having it. IIRC there’s even a financial incentive for doing so.

    If I was to have to bet whether the death numbers were inflated or deflated, i know which way I’d go.
    _

    harkin (cd4502)

  134. nk (1d9030) — 9/5/2020 @ 9:03 am

    In the #317 issue of The Incredible Hulk, Captain America hires entertainment for Rick Jones bachelor party. When a beautiful woman enters the room of assorted Avengers, heroes and sidekicks, she dramatically announces, “Behold the Ecdysiast! Prepare to meet your doom !”

    Of course Namor and others take up defensive positions before being stunned when the woman drops her overcoat! One member of the Pantheon yells “Give the woman some room to work!

    Bruce asks, “you hired a stripper?” And a confused Steve Rogers replies “I thought an ecdysiast was a magician.”

    It is a great read, and you can pick up a copy on eBay.

    felipe (023cc9)

  135. What a run by Authentic!!

    Best performance I’ve seen from a Derby winner in years.
    _

    harkin (cd4502)

  136. I dropped my Marvel Unlimited subscription, felipe, but if I ever go back I’ll be sure to look it up.

    nk (1d9030)

  137. Yes, let’s worry about South Dakota and not this:

    beer n pretzels, go start your own blog. Or give a link without insulting the host.

    Any way you slice it, if you can’t be polite to Dana, I’ll toss you out in a heartbeat.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  138. Inflating Numbers and Manipulating Data

    As far as the “actual” number of deaths I’m not thinking that is what should be debated. What should happen is that the Comorbidities should be emphasized and people with those issues should take precautions while allowing those who do not have these issues and accept personal risk to get on with life.

    Marci (405d43)

  139. I have no idea which numbers are correct but they’ve been listing the Wuhan Virus as cause of death for people who merely tested positive but died with no symptoms of having it. IIRC there’s even a financial incentive for doing so.

    If I was to have to bet whether the death numbers were inflated or deflated, i know which way I’d go.

    Oh, I know which way you’d go. But that doesn’t mean it’s logical or that your claim is supported by evidence (I see no link). Here is what Dr. Fauci says:

    If you look at the people who died of COVID disease, the point that the CDC was trying to make was that a certain percentage of them had nothing else but just COVID,” Fauci said on Good Morning America. “That does not mean that someone who has hypertension or diabetes who dies of COVID didn’t die of COVID-19. They did.”

    “The numbers that you’ve been hearing, the 180,000-plus deaths, are real deaths from COVID-19,” he said. “Let there not be any confusion about that. It’s not 9,000 deaths from COVID-19. It’s 180,000-plus deaths.”

    So that’s Anthony Fauci, but then on the other hand we have harkin and his linkless knowledge of which way he would go.

    Which do you guess I find more convincing?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  140. @142. I was in the crowd at the 4th turn on the rail for Settle Slew as the horse came by in a blurrrr – mostly due to $1 mint julips- back in the day, but got a pix.

    One of the best lines I ever heard was from some old tipsy black dude shuffling along the sidewalk at 4 AM as we pulled into a church parking lot near Churchill Downs after driving there for 7 hours from PA.

    “THIS HERE’S LOUISVILLE! Y’ALL GOTTA PARTY!!”

    Cans of cold Sterling beer began to be cracked immediately.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  141. Don’t whine about getting called out when you make arguments like that. Anyone who makes an argument like that deserves to get called out, and harshly.

    Patterico (98df0d) — 9/5/2020 @ 3:07 pm

    Argue about eggshells forever, it doesn’t change the fact that if you healthy and aren’t elderly, you have nothing to fear. This is similar to the media hyping the AIDS epidemic of the 80s.

    What Gryph posted wasn’t dishonest and it was clear. Without underlying conditions, there is minimal risk.

    NJRob (d445a7)

  142. Northeastern University has dismissed 11 first-year students after they were caught violating social distancing rules, the school announced Friday. Their $36,500 tuition for the semester will not be refunded.
    _ _

    I’m guessing it wasn’t for attending a protest.
    _

    harkin (cd4502) — 9/5/2020 @ 3:58 pm

    Sounds like grounds for a class action.

    NJRob (d445a7)

  143. I think that the anger is that NPR did listeners/readers a big disservice by not pushing back against her outrageous claims (and her anti-Semitism)

    I get that, and that’s fair. And the comparison is muddied by Cotton’s provocation being an op-ed. As far as this particular case, it was a terrible interview, and I am rather curious as to how it came to be published the way it was.

    I do think, though, arguments about ‘cancel culture’ are people with skin in the game noticing the the further democratization of public speech. The power to “call-out” someone was more socially stratified in the recent past, and historically was even more reserved for people with political or religious power. Give the proles the ‘net, and they will realize that the rights of freedom of speech and freedom of association are actually pretty radical concepts when everyone starts using them.

    john (cd2753)

  144. I clicked on Marci’s link and then clicked and clicked and clicked tryiog to get back to an original source instead of people just repeating things they heard and finally got to a piece where a Washington state official supposedly said this: “We have about five deaths — less than five deaths — that we know of that are related to obvious other causes.”

    Well my lands, that shows that the whole thing is overblown and that Trump is presiding over the biggest bunch of random deaths from causes totally unrelated to COVID that anyone’s ever seen! It’s just his bad luck — OR IS IT? If the Deep State doesn’t have its hand in this then my name’s not [insert any name of anyone repeating this garbage, I’m trying not to get too personal].

    Patterico (115b1f)

  145. a gang headed by a former terrorist, has been directing violence and extorting corporations for nearly four months, fauci and ferguson and murray and 1500 other experts, have been fine with that, just like suffocating the economy, has the latter strategy worked, no it has not,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  146. Argue about eggshells forever, it doesn’t change the fact that if you healthy and aren’t elderly, you have nothing to fear.

    That … might be an exaggeration, and I caution sensible people reading this thread to listen to Dr. Fauci and not Dr. Gryph or Dr. NJRob. IF those are their real names!!!

    Seriously, though, posting misinformation about typical political bullshit is just annoying, but you could be endangering lives if anyone paid attention to your ignorance here, so I don’t have the luxury of being terribly polite to you about it. I’ll delete comments if I have to.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  147. https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/09/trump-deserves-re-election-for-this-alone.php

    How many out there are actually trying to stop what the left is pushing versus just going along for the ride?

    NJRob (d445a7)

  148. Patterico,

    What is disinformation?

    NJRob (d445a7)

  149. TRUMP DESERVES RE-ELECTION FOR THIS ALONE

    Lol God no.

    It’s a good policy, I’ll grant you. Re-election for that? Um no.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  150. Trump deserves re-election for someone else writing a memo to quit doing a thing that wasn’t being done?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  151. What is disinformation?

    Claiming that if you are not elderly and you are healthy, you have “nothing to fear” from coronavirus. Please present your medical credentials to assert this or I will start deleting your tweets arguing the point. Again: it’s just false and it’s dangerous.

    If you want to argue that the disease primarily kills the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions, go ahead, but be precise and cite your evidence and make sure it’s bulletproof.

    Do not use my blog any more to tell people they have “nothing to fear” if they don’t fall into your limited categories. It’s disinformation and it’s dangerous and I’m not having it.

    This is one area where partisan exaggeration and bullshit is going to start to be tolerated less and less. If you want to scream censorship start screaming now and I’ll start moderating you now.

    I am telling you to watch your step when you make these claims.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  152. https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/09/trump-deserves-re-election-for-this-alone.php

    What a hero! Who is that doofus President who let it go on for three years and eight months before Mr. Donald J. Trump came along and saved us?

    nk (1d9030)

  153. Dr. NJRob,

    If you’re not aware of the not-insignificant group of non-elderly people with no pre-existing conditions who have died from COVID-19, I’m not saying I am forcing you to learn, but I am forcing you to learn if you’re going to run your mouth on my blog about it. This is the kind of ignorance that kills people and I will not allow my site to contribute to it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  154. Plus, healthy young people can transmit it, Dr. NJRob, but I guess that’s none of your concern? You have the Trump view? If it doesn’t affect me personally then to hell with everyone else?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  155. @137. No, Dustin– he’s an idiot for ‘going there’ with his ‘who doee he think he is’ crack and calling attention to himself on this. He has a very ‘beau’-regard for himself. Except crutch Beau went- voluntarily.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/5/2020 @ 4:03 pm

    In all honesty, I give you credit for half of this (the half not making fun of his son).

    Yesterday I saw Pete Buttigieg make a really passionate, compelling argument about how we know Trump thinks the troops are suckers even from his draft dodging, an argument Pete can get away with well. But I kept thinking ‘what about Bill Clinton?’ Of course I was missing the Biden angle. This is a topic they will need to be careful with.

    I don’t understand why though. Trump says and does the unthinkable, over and over, and it doesn’t seem to matter. Literally called POWs losers and we act like there’s a debate to be had about him.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  156. Patterico,

    I don’t live my life in fear. I accept that I cannot control a virus that exists and that it will take its course. I know if I keep myself healthy and don’t engage in high risk activity, I will likely live a long life. I could still drop dead tomorrow from an unknown genetic condition or get into a car accident.

    Neither would cause me to change my behavior.

    Over 6 million Americans have tested positive for the virus. Less than 10k have died from it without any other underlying condition. That doesn’t mean the condition, HBP or diabetes for example, isn’t manageable on its own. But it does mean that the risk isn’t there.

    If you’re in a higher risk category, I’d expect you to take care in general, flu season, on vacation or otherwise. But living in fear is counterproductive and just leads to more hardship.

    NJRob (d445a7)

  157. The same official says “Ultimately… we suspect that we are actually more likely to be under-counting deaths than over-counting them” but that didn’t seem to show up in the game of Internet telephone that resulted in Marci’s link above.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  158. NJRob, Gryph,

    Check out this story for a second: https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/us/maine-wedding-outbreak-covid-cases-trnd/index.html

    three people died from a big wedding

    you might say, those three folks accepted the risks, maybe they were really old, people die all the time doing things

    But the three who died from the wedding didn’t actually attend. It was other people who spread it to them.

    saying ‘I don’t live in fear’ when you’re young and healthy, well that’s a little cavalier, but it’s not the worst way to live generally. Except in this case, where it’s not fear of what happens to yourself, but respect for what may happen to others, that really guides what’s right and wrong these days.

    Just think about it, separate from the politics, Trump, who is brave, who is a sheep. Those three folks didn’t actually go to the wedding and they are corpses now.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  159. “So that’s Anthony Fauci, but then on the other hand we have harkin and his linkless knowledge of which way he would go.

    Which do you guess I find more convincing?
    __

    Let me put it this way. There are a lot of people who had the virus who never had a clue they had it.

    I would assume almost 100% of people who had been pushed over would be aware.

    Your analogy is very bad.
    _

    harkin (cd4502)

  160. You don’t link your evidence, NJRob, so I’ll link mine.

    CDC, from Characteristics of Persons Who Died with COVID-19 — United States, February 12–May 18, 2020 (published in July):

    To collect more complete data on race/ethnicity, selected underlying medical conditions* by age, and clinical course, CDC solicited supplementary information from medical charts and death certificates of decedents with laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 from state, territorial, and local public health departments.

    . . . .

    At least one underlying medical condition was reported for 8,134 (76.4%) of decedents for whom sup­plementary data were collected, including 83.1% of decedents aged <65 years. Overall, the most common underlying medical conditions were cardiovascular disease (60.9%), diabetes mellitus (39.5%), chronic kidney disease (20.8%), and chronic lung disease (19.2%) (Table 2). Among decedents aged <65 years, 83.1% had one or more underlying medical conditions. Among decedents aged ≥85 years, 69.5% had one or more underlying medical conditions. Diabetes was more common among decedents aged <65 years (49.6%) than among those aged ≥85 years (25.9%).

    If I am reading that right, 83% of decedents under age 65 had at least one underlying medical condition, so 17% did not — meaning they were not elderly (at least if elderly means 65 and over) and had no underlying medical condition.

    But Dr. NJRob said they had nothing to fear, so I hope that consoled them and their families, knowing that Dr. NJRob said they were safe even though they died from COVID.

    I don’t know if there is more updated information, but I do know that otherwise healthy people who are not elderly can die from coronavirus, so regardless of your personal assessment of your own bravery, I will thank you to stop telling such people on my blog that they have nothing to fear.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  161. But the three who died from the wedding didn’t actually attend. It was other people who spread it to them.

    saying ‘I don’t live in fear’ when you’re young and healthy, well that’s a little cavalier, but it’s not the worst way to live generally. Except in this case, where it’s not fear of what happens to yourself, but respect for what may happen to others, that really guides what’s right and wrong these days.

    Just think about it, separate from the politics, Trump, who is brave, who is a sheep. Those three folks didn’t actually go to the wedding and they are corpses now.

    It’s a very good point, Dustin, and well made, but you know: I don’t think NJRob cares.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  162. I don’t live my life in fear. I accept that I cannot control a virus that exists and that it will take its course. I know if I keep myself healthy and don’t engage in high risk activity, I will likely live a long life. I could still drop dead tomorrow from an unknown genetic condition or get into a car accident.

    Neither would cause me to change my behavior.

    I don’t think it’s a matter of living in fear. I think it’s a matter of being responsible and taking reasonable precautions, because the facts are clear, even if you have a healthy lifestyle and don’t engage in high-risk activity, you can still get the virus, and be an asymptomatic carrier who spreads it to others. That’s the thing with people who insist that it’s just another type of flu: it ignores the high rate of contagion and the fact that one can unknowingly have the virus, be asymptomatic, and spread it to untold numbers of other people. Even healthy people. It’s a rather selfish outlook to have.

    Dana (292df6)

  163. Over 6 million Americans have tested positive for the virus. Less than 10k have died from it without any other underlying condition. That doesn’t mean the condition, HBP or diabetes for example, isn’t manageable on its own. But it does mean that the risk isn’t there.

    Guess how many people in the US have underlying conditions.

    Wait, you don’t have to guess, it’s 193,000,000.

    There is an intersection between these, but 193M.

    70.8M over 60
    34M with Type 2 diabetes
    25M with asthma
    70M obese
    10M with cancer
    24M with COPD
    121M with cardiovascular disease, yeah, that’s a lot.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  164. @144 Oh, you mean the encyclical that isn’t out yet? And certainly isn’t out and translated? Because it doesn’t come out for another month? Hard to judge if you can’t read it. It’s always best to go to the primary source when you can.

    Nic (896fdf)

  165. Less than 10k have died from it without any other underlying condition.

    Some of those “other underlying conditions” are things that Covid-19 does to the heart and lungs. Or at the very least, it exacerbates mild conditions.
    A large part of the U.S. population has some form of “underlying condition,” which doesn’t mean they’re all going to die in the next month or two whether with or without Covid.

    The numbers of deaths officially counted as Covid-19 deaths track closely with the numbers of deaths in excess of average for place and time of year.
    There is no giant conspiracy to inflate the numbers to hurt Trump, or to funnel ill-gotten gain into doctors’ pockets.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  166. I was told more cops have died from COVID than violence this year. Does anyone know if that’s accurate?

    Dustin (825e2c)

  167. My math may be off — I’m an English major — but when I read this:

    Among the 10,647 COVID-19 decedents for whom supple­mentary data were collected, 60.6% were male, 74.8% were aged ≥65 years, 24.4% were Hispanic, 24.9% were black, 35.0% were white, 6.3% were Asian, 0.1% were AI/AN, 0.1% were NHPI, 2.9% were multiracial or other race, and race/ethnicity was unknown for 6.3% (Table 1). Decedent age varied by race and ethnicity; median age was 71 years (IQR = 59–81 years) among Hispanic decedents, 72 years (IQR = 62–81 years) among all nonwhite, non-Hispanic decedents, and 81 years (IQR = 71–88 years) among white decedents. The percentages of Hispanic (34.9%) and nonwhite (29.5%) decedents who were aged <65 years were more than twice those of white decedents (13.2%) (Figure).

    At least one underlying medical condition was reported for 8,134 (76.4%) of decedents for whom sup­plementary data were collected, including 83.1% of decedents aged <65 years. Overall, the most common underlying medical conditions were cardiovascular disease (60.9%), diabetes mellitus (39.5%), chronic kidney disease (20.8%), and chronic lung disease (19.2%) (Table 2). Among decedents aged <65 years, 83.1% had one or more underlying medical conditions. Among decedents aged ≥85 years, 69.5% had one or more underlying medical conditions. Diabetes was more common among decedents aged <65 years (49.6%) than among those aged ≥85 years (25.9%).

    It looks like a population of 10,647 deaths, 74.8% of which were over 65 and older (meaning 26.2% were under 65, or 2789 people). Of that group, 83.1% had at least one pre-existing condition, meaning 16.9% of the 2789, or about 471 of the total of 10,647, were under 65 and had no pre-existing condition. Looks to me like about 4% of overall deaths.

    Extrapolte that to 180,000 people and it’s about 7,050 deaths of people under 65 with no pre-existing condition.

    It’s not a huge percentage of the total, but it’s not nobody.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  168. TL;DR: it’s old data but it suggests maybe 4% of CV deaths are people under 65 with no underlying health issues, which would be over 7000 people so far.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  169. Dustin @174-

    See post 17

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  170. From Dustin’s link about the Maine wedding:

    “What we are dealing with is a giant tube of glitter. You open a tube of glitter in your basement then two weeks later you are in the attic and all you find is glitter and have no idea how it got there,” Maine CDC Director Dr. Nirav Shah said on August 25.”That’s what Covid-19 is like. You open up glitter in Millinocket and next thing you know you are finding traces of it at a jail complex in York County. It’s just emblematic of how quickly, silently and efficiently it can spread.”

    I remember that early outbreak in a nursing home in Kirkland, WA, and the next publicly known case was a high school student in Everett, roughly 30 miles away, and the student didn’t appear to have any direct link to the nursing home. Which meant the virus was already quietly spreading far beyond Kirkland, and maybe from different initial points of entry.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  171. — Problem.
    — God Trump.
    — Dilemma: God Trump cannot make the problem go away.
    — Resolution: There is no problem for God Trump to make go away.
    Trumpkin psychology. It applies to your question about POWs too, Dustin.

    nk (1d9030)

  172. BIDEN GOT 5 DRAFT DEFERMENTS DURING NAM, AS DID CHENEY

    I got 4, then they stopped drafting people. Biden’s claim of being asthmatic, despite being a football star is only marginally better than Trump’s outright lie. I don’t see this an issue with much useful traction.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  173. The super liberal Rupert Murdoch owned NYPost so claims that more cops are dead from Covid than any other source. The National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund agrees.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  174. The Atlantic
    Jennifer Griffin
    James LaPorta, AP
    The DDID
    And now CNN

    President Donald Trump referred to fallen US service members at the Aisne-Marne cemetery in crude and derogatory terms during a November 2018 trip to France to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the end of World War I, a former senior administration official confirmed to CNN.
    Trump was supposed to go to an event at the cemetery during the trip, but rain and fog were blamed for him not being able to helicopter to the site. The White House then determined he could not motorcade to the location — 50 miles outside of Paris — because it would be too hard to try to secure the roads.
    The former official, who declined to be named, largely confirmed reporting from Jeffrey Goldberg in The Atlantic magazine, which cited sources who said Trump rejected the idea of a cemetery visit and proceeded to refer to the fallen soldiers as “losers” and “suckers.”

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  175. Dustin @174-

    See post 17

    Rip Murdock (ac5491) — 9/5/2020 @ 5:27 pm

    I bet that’s where I got the idea and my brain didn’t really process it.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  176. Here’s another way to look at it.

    There have been 875,000 Covid deaths since the outbreak. That’s roughly 1 death for every 10,000 people in the world. I’m not getting into the fetal position anytime soon.

    norcal (a5428a)

  177. I got 4, then they stopped drafting people. Biden’s claim of being asthmatic, despite being a football star is only marginally better than Trump’s outright lie. I don’t see this an issue with much useful traction.

    Trump also got 5 deferments.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  178. Felipe (141)

    That’s Incredible Hulk 417.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  179. Argue about eggshells forever, it doesn’t change the fact that if you healthy and aren’t elderly, you have nothing to fear.

    And if you’re over 40 you aren’t “young and stupid” anymore. The things I did in my 20’s because I was “young and healthy.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  180. @180. It does help explain why he begged not to be expelled from law school for getting caught committing plagiarism.

    “You’re out! Finished … Expelled! I want you off this campus at nine o’clock Monday morning, and I’ve contacted your local draft boards and told them that you were all, all eligible for military service.” – Dean Wormer [John Vernon] ‘Animal House’ 1978

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  181. DDID? Detection, Diagnosis and Intervention in Dementia?

    nk (1d9030)

  182. Plus, healthy young people can transmit it,

    In fact, MOST of it IS transmitted by young, healthy people who don’t know they aren’t healthy at the moment.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  183. That’s roughly 1 death for every 10,000 people in the world.

    In 6 months. Also, the world in general is doing significantly better than the US’s, 1 in 1,760.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  184. “ about 7,050 deaths of people under 65 with no pre-existing condition”

    Is there ANY other cause of death that we would shut the country down for?

    kaf (8a536b)

  185. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/5/2020 @ 5:41 pm

    That’s right. I did not notice my typo. Thanks for the correction! NK, don’t go in the basement*!

    * The “basement” being issue #317, instead of the corect room of #417

    felipe (023cc9)

  186. an argument Pete can get away with well.

    I don’t think much of hearing those who never stood for that draft criticizing anything about those that did (or even those that dodged it). If you got a bye for the draft by being born after 1954, you should studiously avoid having an opinion.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  187. “ about 7,050 deaths of people under 65 with no pre-existing condition”

    That’s with all the precautions and all the medical care available in America, but that’s one thought too many for a Trumpkin’s intellectual capacity.

    nk (1d9030)

  188. For $2 more than the price of that issue on EBay, you can get 37 days of Marvel Unlimited, felipe.

    nk (1d9030)

  189. Trump deserves re-election for someone else writing a memo to quit doing a thing that wasn’t being done?

    Apparently it was. Or are you going to assert that NO WHERE in government, or in its many contractors, this CRT race-baiting hasn’t taken hold?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  190. Is there ANY other cause of death that we would shut the country down for?

    It’s 190,000 deaths…so far. 200,000 more by the end of the year. Half of which wouldn’t have been dead if the moron president would show some leadership, if his moron defenders and the low IQ fools had an ounce of common sense, and a tiny bit common courtesy, would just wear a simple mask.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  191. Between 4% and 5% of people who get Covid die. Those are the real numbers. One out of 20 to one out of 25. Don’t get Covid! Ask not for whom the orange trolls, he trolls for thee.

    nk (1d9030)

  192. @192 I seem to remember a whole drama re Ebola and like 5 people had it. So, really, I’d say any number of diseases.

    Nic (896fdf)

  193. UPDATE-At Least 4 Boats Sink During ‘Trump Boat Parade’ in Texas, Officials Say
    The authorities rescued numerous people from the waters of Lake Travis in Texas on Saturday after at least four boats sank at an event promoted as a Trump Boat Parade, officials said.
    …….
    Christa Stedman, a spokeswoman for Austin-Travis County Emergency Medical Services, said no injuries had been reported.
    ……..
    “We had an exceptional number of boats on the lake today,” Kristen Dark, a spokeswoman for the Travis County Sheriff’s Department) said. “When they all started moving at the same time, it generated significant waves.”

    With winds around 10 miles an hour, and gusting to as much as 15 m.p.h., the weather conditions in and around the lake most likely would not have caused the boats to sink, Aaron Treadway, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service in the Austin/San Antonio office, said.
    ………
    Steve Salinas, 42, said that the water had been choppy and the swells had been high when he went to launch his 22-foot boat, decorated with eight-foot-tall flagpoles.
    ……..
    Mr. Salinas [who helped organize the event] said he had seen boats of all sizes Saturday — from 60-foot yachts to eight-foot boats. Mixed with the number of boats headed in the same direction, their various sizes and the choppy water, Mr. Salinas said, accidents were bound to happen.
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  194. NJRob,

    So, you will take responsibility for anything bad that happens to someone if you happen to be a carrier of Covid and do NOT take the recommended precautions? Pay their medical bills, their orphans’ support, college tuition, etc?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  195. Apparently it was. Or are you going to assert that NO WHERE in government, or in its many contractors, this CRT race-baiting hasn’t taken hold?

    So a thing that no one can actually find happening, a thing that Trump didn’t do, is a reason to vote for Trump, over the dozens of things he is doing actually, out loud in front of the world, every day.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  196. I am bemused by Trump’s tweet today:

    Nancy Pelosi said she got “set up” by the owner (a very good one) of a beauty parlor. If so, how will she do in negotiations against President Xi of China, President Putin of Russia, or Kim Jong Un of North Korea. Not so well, I suspect, but far better than Joe Hiden’ would do!

    But really, should Pelosi’s let them eat cake moment be the subject the President’s focus when there have been 188,000 Covid deaths in the U.S.? Moreover, when will Pelosi ever have to negotiate with Xi, Putin or Kim Jong?? Is she running for the presidency?

    Of course it’a particularly rich that he berates her for inability to negotiate with Xi (whom Trump refused to condemn and held off on sanctioning for the ongoing genocide of the Uighuers until last month after he got his so-called fabulous trade deal done), refused to question Putin about the Russian bounties on U.S. soldiers and called the story a hoax (even though Pompeo was compelled to warn Russia against bounties on US troops in Afghanistan, which clearly undercut Trump’s claims of a hoax), and then there’s his little infatuation with Kim Jong which he apparently that views as tough negotiations :

    “I was really being tough and so was he,” Trump said. “And we would go back and forth. And then we fell in love. No really. He wrote me beautiful letters.”

    “They were great letters. And then we fell in love,” he continued.

    This guy is just utterly unbelievable – in more ways than one.

    Dana (292df6)

  197. Klink (171),

    The intersection isn’t minimal. Over 60, diabetes and obese are often conjoined. As are “asthma” and COPD given the rules insurance companies put on prescriptions.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  198. CRT race-baiting vs half a million Covid deaths by inauguration day.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  199. NJRob:

    The mask is to stop you from coughing, spitting, sneezing or otherwise expectorating on others. Nobody — NOBODY — gives a rat’s ass if someone infects you because you don’t wear a mask, which it isn’t there for anyway.

    Please signify you have read this.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  200. CRT race-baiting vs half a million Covid deaths by inauguration day.

    Meaning what, Trump should issue an executive order banning Covid? Name 3 countries tat are Covid-free today. Other than North Korea.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  201. Also, Pelosi is the Speaker of the House, she doesn’t negotiate with Xi, or Putin…

    It’s almost like Trump doesn’t know what his job is, 5 years into running, or being, for the presidency.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  202. Meaning what, Trump should issue an executive order banning Covid? Name 3 countries tat are Covid-free today. Other than North Korea.

    He could, but the memo you’re referencing isn’t an Executive Order and wasn’t written by Trump.

    Again, some flunky deep in the IBS of OMB writing a memo to stop some silly HR sessions is a reason to vote for Trump?!?! over denigrating all veterans, Covid…

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  203. #178–

    Which is why I have a hard time believing this occurs naturally. It is just too perfect a bioweapon. It doesn’t kill all life on earth, it doesn’t invalid those it infects (at least not initially), it spreads through the air, it kills or invalids enough people that it cannot be ignored. It brings economies to their knees. It seems to have a racial preference. In a modern war, it would be highly effective. Diseases like this don’t “just happen.” I don’t think that China released it on purpose, never mind the timing, but I do believe they created it and are rather pissed it got out.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  204. — “I’ll take oranges for the $500, Alex.”
    — “The answer is: One for the money, two for the show.”
    — “What is: ‘Why does Trump do something’?”
    — “Correct!”

    nk (1d9030)

  205. @205 I just want y’all to know that I plan to continue not voting for Nancy Pelosi for president. I have, in fact, never voted for Nancy Pelosi for President (or anything, actually, but especially not for President). 😛

    Nic (896fdf)

  206. Klink,

    I don’t want to defend Trump as a great guy, but blindly accepting every argument that disfavors him is JUST as tiresome as the arguments of those who blindly follow him.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  207. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/5/2020 @ 5:41 pm

    By the way, I was going off of my memory of the comic from 1994, when I was still collecting them. I had Issues #4 through #500 of IH, then I foolishly sold my entire collection (over 2500 issues in all) in order to make space in our house. I’m impressed I got anything right about it.

    I am glad, though, that those days are over. It felt like shedding chains.

    felipe (023cc9)

  208. That’s roughly 1 death for every 10,000 people in the world

    Because statistics from Botswana, or China, or Iran are inherently reliable.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  209. Is there ANY other cause of death that we would shut the country down for?

    Sure. If terrorists were killing 1 out of every 2000 schoolkids, you bet the country would shut down until we hanged the suckers.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  210. “ about 7,050 deaths of people under 65 with no pre-existing condition”

    And all those over 65, or with preexisting conditions? They should head out to the iceberg? I bet grandma is REAL happy to see you.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  211. And all those over 65, or with preexisting conditions? They should head out to the iceberg? I bet grandma is REAL happy to see you.

    You’re not talking to me, right? You understand why I posted those stats, right?

    Patterico (98df0d)

  212. Klink,

    I don’t want to defend Trump as a great guy, but blindly accepting every argument that disfavors him is JUST as tiresome as the arguments of those who blindly follow him.

    It wasn’t my argument for/about him. The article, and memo referenced, was about a completely different human person, but the post was using the memo by this other human person as a reason to vote for Trump. My point is something done by some other human person, that isn’t an executive order, and has nothing to do with Trump, is not a reason to vote for Trump.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  213. Second News Item meet Third News Item.

    Or — why we got a huckster like Trump in the First Place.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  214. In new book, former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen describes alleged episodes of racism and says president likes how Putin runs Russia
    ………
    In the book, “Disloyal: A Memoir,” which was obtained by The Washington Post ahead of its Tuesday publication date, Cohen lays out an alarming portrait of the constellation of characters orbiting around Trump, likening the arrangement to the mafia and calling himself “one of Trump’s bad guys.” He describes the president, meanwhile, as “a cheat, a liar, a fraud, a bully, a racist, a predator, a con man.”
    ……..
    Trump loved Putin, Cohen wrote, because the Russian leader had the ability “to take over an entire nation and run it like it was his personal company — like the Trump Organization, in fact.”
    ……..
    “ It’s not real, right?” Trump allegedly asked after being shown a photograph, which [The National Enquirer] would claim depicted Cruz’s father with Lee Harvey Oswald shortly before Oswald killed President John F. Kennedy in 1963.

    “Looks real to me!” Cohen responded, according to the book, prompting Trump to laugh as he demanded that the story be run on the tabloid’s front page.
    ………
    According to Cohen, Trump’s sycophantic praise of the Russian leader during the 2016 campaign began as a way to suck up and ensure access to the oligarch’s money after he lost the election. But he claims Trump came to understand that Putin’s hatred of Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, dating to her support for the 2011 protest movement in Russia, could also help Trump amass more power in the United States.
    …….
    Cohen writes that during the 2016 campaign, Trump was dismissive of minorities, describing them as “not my people.” “I will never get the Hispanic vote,” Cohen recounts Trump claiming. “Like the blacks, they’re too stupid to vote for Trump.”

    Cohen describes Trump’s obsessive hatred of Obama, including claiming that the only reason the former president got into Columbia University and Harvard Law School was because of “f—ing affirmative action.”…….
    ………
    Cohen writes that before winning the presidency, Trump held a meeting at Trump Tower with prominent evangelical leaders, where they laid their hands on him in prayer. Afterward, Trump allegedly said: “Can you believe that bulls–t? Can you believe people believe that bulls–t?”
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  215. DUMBKIRK! Anita navy attacks and sink trump flotilla on texas lake.

    asset (7b2886)

  216. In all honesty, I give you credit for half of this (the half not making fun of his son).

    Oh please. Did FDR parade his polio as a campaign crutch? No. So spare the faux-beau outrage.

    “She draws him like a gun!’ – Texas Ranger LaBoeuf [Glen Campbell] ‘True Grit’ 1969

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  217. . So spare the faux-beau outrage.

    It’s not that I’m mad. It’s just not worth credit.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  218. @227. Say it ain’t so, Joe?! That would be news to him.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  219. wait a damn minute though

    you’re saying I’m mad? after your 6 billionth Biden rant?

    🥇

    Dustin (825e2c)

  220. NJRob,

    So, you will take responsibility for anything bad that happens to someone if you happen to be a carrier of Covid and do NOT take the recommended precautions? Pay their medical bills, their orphans’ support, college tuition, etc?

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/5/2020 @ 6:07 pm

    I am responsible for myself and my family. You are responsible for your own. I pay enough for the welfare of others through taxation and insurance. As do you. If you’re afraid of life, stay home.

    NJRob (d445a7)

  221. Kevin,

    Unless you are wearing a properly fitted N95 mask and change it repeatedly, the mask is there for appearances, nothing more. Just like security at the airport.

    NJRob (d445a7)

  222. I’ve been working 60+ hours a week in an essential position interacting with hundreds daily. Acceptable risk?

    I live life. Thanks for playing.

    NJRob (d445a7)

  223. Unless you are wearing a properly fitted N95 mask and change it repeatedly, the mask is there for appearances, nothing more. Just like security at the airport.

    Ah, denial of reality.

    Willful ignorance is still ignorance.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  224. Yes Klink. You said it all.

    NJRob (d445a7)

  225. I am responsible for myself and my family. You are responsible for your own.

    Yes, we are, NJRob, that’s why we elect public officials who will enforce Covid precautions on you, for the protection of ourselves and our families, whether you like it or not.

    nk (1d9030)

  226. DDID? Detection, Diagnosis and Intervention in Dementia?

    It’s what I call the WA Post. I’ll call them the DDID until they get rid of their stupid ridiculous Democracy Dies In Darkness subhead. But yours works pretty well, too.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  227. Of course nk. Just like Pelosi, Cuomo, DeBlasio and your favorites, Trump and Cruz.

    NJRob (d445a7)

  228. No fur, no fangs, no claws, our forebrains and opposable thumbs would have been good only for recognizing something good to eat and picking it up, but for that third, most important, human trait: Cooperation.

    nk (1d9030)

  229. https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/09/02/biden-says-kenosha-officer-who-shot-jacob-blake-should-charged/5694051002/

    Was this discussed earlier this week? It’s reprehensible that Biden is willing to throw that police officer under the bus before all the facts are known. This is much worse than Obama saying the Cambridge Police acted stupidly in regards to Henry Louis Gates.

    norcal (a5428a)

  230. Oh that wasnt worthy of note,

    Yes cooperation and the resistance in the bureaucracy and the judicial system are synonymous. By contrast obama had practically opposition, we see this same pattern with brexit or those who want to defend the country in israel or those comcerned about mass immigration in italy

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  231. Why would anyone be concerned about congressional safety

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Congressional_baseball_shooting

    And that wasnt the only incident of note in that cyclem

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  232. In fact i wouldnt be surprised if the squad would let some of these rioters and worse into the capitol. They have shown no such respect for monuments the founders
    themselves. ‘dead traitors’ courthouses,

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  233. I pay enough for the welfare of others through taxation and insurance.

    🐴

    Dustin (825e2c)

  234. I pay enough for the welfare of others through taxation and insurance.

    “Are there no workhouses?!”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  235. I am responsible for myself and my family. You are responsible for your own. I pay enough for the welfare of others through taxation and insurance. As do you. If you’re afraid of life, stay home.

    You are also responsible for your actions and when those actions harm others, it’s on you.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  236. You’re not talking to me, right? You understand why I posted those stats, right?

    No, I was “talking to” the previous quotebacks.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  237. I am responsible for myself and my family. You are responsible for your own. I pay enough for the welfare of others through taxation and insurance. As do you. If you’re afraid of life, stay home.

    You are also responsible for your actions and when those actions harm others, it’s on you.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/5/2020 @ 10:54 pm

    Let me know when China is held accountable for their actions.

    Thanks.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  238. https://therightscoop.com/unsealed-court-docs-reveal-that-portland-shooter-stalked-trump-supporter-before-killing-him/

    So this Antifa member stalked him before assassinating him. What about the others involved? This was clearly premeditated.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  239. But your math IS slightly wrong in two places, I think. 0.169 * 0.252 = 0.0426. The overall sample number is immaterial and then 0.0426 * 180,000 is 7,670 to 3 significant figures.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  240. Let me know when China is held accountable for their actions.

    So, you claim to be a sovereign country?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  241. So, you claim to be a sovereign country?

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/5/2020 @ 11:10 pm

    I claim to be a free man and not a slave. How many lives have been destroyed since February due to this fear? How many jobs ruined? Homes bankrupted? Suicides? Abuse? Depression? Hopelessness? You take away a man’s right to his own life, his own work, you take him.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  242. But Kevin, if you want to hold anyone responsible, go after China and her leaders. Their leaders are the one that banned domestic flights, but allowed international ones. They are the ones that restricted travel to their bio plant, but hid all the evidence of the virus escaping. They lied repeatedly and still do to this day.

    Carry on.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  243. Unless you are wearing a properly fitted N95 mask and change it repeatedly, the mask is there for appearances, nothing more. Just like security at the airport.

    I actually ahve several, which I rotate. But, and I say this again (do I have to use all caps!?) the mask is there to stop you from coughing/sneezing/spitting/drooling into the air. It is NOT to stop you from getting sick. Maybe this doesn’t resonate with you, since only you and maybe your family are real to you.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  244. So, let me get this right. Someone spread smallpox, say, all over some blankets. You sell them to the Indians, but those deaths aren’t on you because you didn’t spread the smallpox on the blankets? Although you do wear gloves.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  245. Is it intentional or accidental? Premeditated or innocuous?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  246. BTW, get back to me with California taking away the felony for intentionally spreading AIDS.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  247. My last remark for the night, why is it acceptable to shut down churches and businesses that cater to the public while sitting down, but flights can take place as normal? Which would be considered “higher risk?”

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  248. I am responsible for myself and my family. You are responsible for your own. I pay enough for the welfare of others through taxation and insurance.
    NJRob (d445a7) — 9/5/2020 @ 7:49 pm

    How gratifying must it be to have a president who truly speaks to you?

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  249. I was told more cops have died from COVID than violence this year.
    Dustin (825e2c) — 9/5/2020 @ 5:17 pm

    I saw that too, but it’s fake news. Being a cop is a pre-existing condition to all sorts of morbidity. According to the peer-reviewed analyses of Drs. Gryph and NJRob (Gryph reviewed Rob’s, and Rob Gryph’s), that means ZERO cops died of COVID. Who’da thunk it, but there’s no better protection against terminal COVID than being a cop!

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  250. First of all, let me stipulate that a “superspreader” event, according to the CDC, is an event which…

    A) A number of infections can be traced directly back to

    and…

    B) increases the R0 of an outbreak beyond a certain defined threshold

    By this definition, America has not had a superspreader event since Andrew Cuomo threw a bunch of suspected CoViD cases in New York nursing homes. This is not to say that R0 hasn’t fluctuated, or that there haven’t been some places with contained transmission that have picked up outside cases, but no, Sturgis was not a superspreader. No, Mount Rushmore was not a suprespreader.

    Secondly, I’ve followed every link that’s been thrown at me in this thread. I see the datasets. I see the numbers. And every time, I think “so what?” How is it possible for me to see the same data that everyone else does while so many around me put on their wool coats to parade around like sheep? When does this end? When does it stop? Not even the “experts” seem to know. But the blame Trump gets for something ultimately beyond his control is very telling. And I think CoViD is going to drop out of the news cycles when Trump wins his re-election. If a terrible plague isn’t enough to unseat him, nothing will.

    Gryph (f63000)

  251. 260. Or a rioter. Or a politician. Just go out and break a few windows or get elected to some office somewhere, and you’re immune!

    And you’re welcome to show wherever I said no cops have died of CoViD, you stinking weasel.

    Gryph (f63000)

  252. I claim to be a free man and not a slave. How many lives have been destroyed since February due to this fear? How many jobs ruined? Homes bankrupted? Suicides? Abuse? Depression? Hopelessness? You take away a man’s right to his own life, his own work, you take him.

    And what’s worse, mommy did not warm your bottle to the right temperature, like all the Chinese mommies do. You’re not Spartacus, you’re a whiner whose comfort zone has been disturbed.

    nk (1d9030)

  253. 265. I know, right? And how about those whiners who threw all the tea into the harbor to protest the Tea Act? What a bunch of babies.

    Whose “comfort zone” has been more disturbed? The people saying that CoViD is not the end of civilization as we know it, or the people so fearful of it that they are willing to walk around with veils on their faces like Muslim subjects?

    Gryph (f63000)

  254. Yeah, you’re a real profile in courage with other people’s lives.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  255. And you’re welcome to show wherever I said no cops have died of CoViD, you stinking weasel.

    You’re welcome to show where I wrote something anyone with a brain would interpret as “Gryph said no cops have died of COVID.”

    Since you’re going through a rough time I forgive the unprovoked “stinking weasel.” But try not to take it out on other people.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  256. https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/08/26/minneapolis-man-lionel-timms-accused-in-serious-assault-after-being-bailed-out-by-mn-freedom-fund/

    Vote for Biden and Kamala because we all need to be kicked in the head repeatedly to get brain damage.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  257. Sure nk and lurker. It takes a village. You love Big Brother. We all know to depend on the government is a sign of independence.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  258. 268.

    According to the peer-reviewed analyses of Drs. Gryph and NJRob (Gryph reviewed Rob’s, and Rob Gryph’s), that means ZERO cops died of COVID.

    Thre you go, you stinking weasel. Not only did I not say it, I never said anything that could reasonably be said to imply it, and yet right there you are. Now THAT is what dishonesty looks like, kids.

    Gryph (f63000)

  259. Repeat after me, kids:

    “CoViD probably won’t kill me.”

    Gryph (f63000)

  260. “CoViD probably won’t kill me”.

    mg (8cbc69)

  261. new york spread the virus, in the most vulnerable spots, and like a galley out of the crimea, it was spread to florida, and other parts by air and auto, then the second wave came with the rioters,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  262. According to the peer-reviewed analyses of Drs. Gryph and NJRob (Gryph reviewed Rob’s, and Rob Gryph’s), that means ZERO cops died of COVID.

    Thre you go, you stinking weasel. Not only did I not say it, I never said anything that could reasonably be said to imply it, and yet right there you are. Now THAT is what dishonesty looks like, kids.

    Do you also think I believe “being a cop” is a pre-existing condition for COVID? I was mocking your COVID trutherism, dimwit. It’s called satire. If you thought any part of what I said was meant literally, I can’t help you.

    Consider my goodwill for your unprovoked insults and BS accusations of dishonesty expired.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  263. We can add “art thief” to the list of things nobody does better than the Orange One.

    He literally stole the silverware from the US ambassador’s residence during his visit to France in 2018…

    Dave (1bb933)

  264. 276. My “trutherism” is straight from the CDC. I said there is no way to know how many of those comorbidities caused the deaths that were attributed to CoViD. So did the CDC. My accusations of dishonesty stand.

    Gryph (f63000)

  265. When a COVID truther calls me a lying stinking weasel, I like to take a deep breath and turn my attention to something healing, typically a beautiful work of art. Now what makes a work of art beautiful to one person but not another is obviously subjective, so YMMV, but here’s something that speaks to me.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  266. My accusations of dishonesty stand.

    You’re an idiot.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  267. 281. You’re a sheeple. kthxbye

    Gryph (f63000)

  268. 280. Then I guess that makes Patterico a “truther” when it comes to the “losers and suckers” accusations he made without any independent corroboration. Sheep.

    Gryph (f63000)

  269. “ We can add “art thief” to the list of things nobody does better than the Orange One.”
    _

    If bringing government-owned objects to the White House is a crime, I guess that makes Jacqueline Kennedy Whitey Bulger.
    _

    harkin (cd4502)

  270. I said there is no way to know how many of those comorbidities caused the deaths that were attributed to CoViD. So did the CDC.

    That’s literally false, Gryph. Again, Dr. Fauci

    The following morning, Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, clarified what the CDC data mean.
    He noted that the 6% figure includes cases where COVID-19 was listed as the only cause of death. “That does not mean that someone who has hypertension or diabetes who dies of Covid didn’t die of Covid-19. They did,” Fauci said on ABC’s “Good Morning America.”
    “So the numbers you’ve been hearing — the 180,000-plus deaths — are real deaths from Covid-19. Let [there] not be any confusion about that,” Fauci said.

    Emphases mine. I don’t know why why this is not getting through your thick head.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  271. I would venture to say with all the Joe Biden voters hassling American diners, restaurants will end up with a higher number going under. Charley Parker govna of the state with the highest unemployment rate is loving every minute of seeing century year old restaurants getting 86’d.

    mg (8cbc69)

  272. He also has his gestapo out watching bars and restaurants and is shutting them down. Such a pathetic rino.

    mg (8cbc69)

  273. Jacqueline Kennedy founded the White House Historical Association, “a private, nonprofit organization founded in 1961 by First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy with a mission to protect, preserve, and provide public access to the rich history of America’s Executive Mansion.” Her efforts were aimed at protecting American assets, not spontaneously taking them for herself.

    DRJ (aede82)

  274. Gryph,

    Comorbidities don’t only make it more likely someone will die of Covid, they also make it more likely someone will be infected. NJ Rob called them eggshells but that is misleading when underlying health conditions and comorbidities are so widespread in America. In addition, virtually everyone gets health conditions and comorbidities at some point in their lives. Coronaviruses are remarkably hardy and Covid 19 may recur for decades. We should learn effective ways to deal with it — a vaccine may take a decade, too — and handwashing and masks may be the answers for now.

    I don’t care if you or anyone wears a mask or if you wash your hands. I think it is a personal decision based on the circumstances, and it doesn’t make you or anyone an idiot. But while I disagree with the idiot characterization, that doesn’t mean other commenters are wrong to point out why masks may make a difference. There are pros and cons to both views.

    DRJ (aede82)

  275. FWIW, I think real social distancing AND frequent handwashing are more effective than masks, because most people who wear masks view themselves as bulletproof and act accordingly.

    DRJ (aede82)

  276. @284-
    The hilarity is that the art that caught Trump’s eye were fakes:

    ………Trump pointed out a Benjamin Franklin bust, a Franklin portrait and a set of figurines of Greek mythical characters, and insisted the pieces come back with him to Washington.
    ……….
    The figurines that caught Trump’s eye found a new home on the fireplace mantel in the Oval Office. Depicting Greek gods, they date to the early 20th century and were made by Neapolitan artist Luigi Avolio, who was trying to pass them off as sculptures from the 16th or 17th centuries, according to London-based art dealer Patricia Wengraf.

    In an “Antiques Roadshow” moment, Wengraf described the figurines as “20th century fakes of wannabe 17th century sculptures,” and of little value.

    The French art-collection episode comes with a curious footnote. After White House art curators examined the pieces Trump brought home, the president was told that the Franklin bust was a replica. He joked that he liked the fake better than the original, two people familiar with the episode said.

    The Franklin portrait snagged from Paris was also a copy — of the one Joseph Siffred Duplessis painted in France in 1785, which was then held by the National Portrait Gallery a mile from the White House.
    …………

    Fake like everything else about Trump’s character.

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  277. As the member of a family with severe immune dysfunction who has practiced social distancing for over 25 years, it doesn’t mean standing a few feet away from other people. It means finding ways to avoid other people most of the time and to limit necessary interaction. It is hard to live that life and we are seeing the stress and disruption that involuntary solitary lives can lead to. Wearing a mask and getting on with your life sounds like heaven to me.

    DRJ (aede82)

  278. They were glittery fakes. He likes things that glitter.

    DRJ (aede82)

  279. mg, the Dems in out-state MA are actually more conservative than most of your RINOs, based on th he progressive panic porn I see concerning Reps. Neal, Moulton and Rep-elect Auchincloss. Things are so bad for the Dems that they may need to turn to, not away from, a form of Massachusetts Dem for future guidance.

    urbanleftbehind (7dbb9b)

  280. 289.

    I think it is a personal decision based on the circumstances, and it doesn’t make you or anyone an idiot. But while I disagree with the idiot characterization, that doesn’t mean other commenters are wrong to point out why masks may make a difference.
    DRJ (aede82) — 9/6/2020 @ 8:04 am

    Just to be clear, I called him an idiot for falsely accusing me of dishonesty, not for his views on COVID.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  281. Good gravy.

    NEW: In upcoming book, Michael Cohen writes Donald Trump’s disdain for Obama was so extreme he hired a “Faux-Bama” to participate in a video in which he “ritualistically belittled the first black president and then fired him.” He includes this photo:
    https://twitter.com/Pervaizistan/status/1302427987929899008/photo/1

    Hmm, I wonder who actually is that actor, er, I mean the fella on the right. More…

    In 2015, after Trump called Mexicans criminals & rapists, he dismissed concerns he’d alienated Latinos. “Plus, I will never get the Hispanic vote,” Trump allegedly told Cohen. “Like the blacks, they’re too stupid to vote for Trump. They’re not my people.”

    According to Cohen after Obama won office in 2008, Trump said, “Tell me one country run by a black person that isn’t a sh*thole…They are all complete f*cking toilets.”

    After Nelson Mandela died, Trump allegedly said of South Africa that “Mandela f*cked the whole country up. Now it’s a sh*thole. F*ck Mandela. He was no leader.”

    Cohen on Trump’s hair routine, described as a “three-step” combover designed to disguise “unsightly scars on his scalp from a failed hair-implant operation in the 1980s.”

    Cohen says he once saw Trump shortly after a shower: “when his hair wasn’t done, his strands of dyed-golden hair reached below his shoulders along the right side of his head and on his back, like a balding Allman Brother or strung out old ’60s hippie.”

    Unlike Goldberg and other media outlets on Trump’s “losers” and “suckers” comments and so forth, Cohen’s is single-sourced “reporting”, and his book will probably be likened to the Steele dossier, but it’s not inconsistent with what we already know about Trump’s character. More

    President Trump’s longtime lawyer and personal fixer, Michael Cohen, alleges in a new book that Trump made “overt and covert attempts to get Russia to interfere in the 2016 election” and that the future commander in chief was also well aware of Cohen’s hush-money payoff to adult-film star Stormy Daniels during that campaign.
    In the book, “Disloyal: A Memoir,” which was obtained by The Washington Post ahead of its Tuesday publication date, Cohen lays out an alarming portrait of the constellation of characters orbiting around Trump, likening the arrangement to the mafia and calling himself “one of Trump’s bad guys.” He describes the president, meanwhile, as “a cheat, a liar, a fraud, a bully, a racist, a predator, a con man.”
    The memoir also describes episodes of Trump’s alleged racism and his “hatred and contempt” of his predecessor, Barack Obama, the nation’s only African American president.
    […]
    On Russia, Cohen writes that the cause behind Trump’s admiration of Russian President Vladimir Putin is simpler than many of his critics assume. Above all, he writes, Trump loves money — and he wrongly identified Putin as “the richest man in the world by a multiple.”
    Trump loved Putin, Cohen wrote, because the Russian leader had the ability “to take over an entire nation and run it like it was his personal company — like the Trump Organization, in fact.”
    […]
    Cohen says the Trump Tower plans called for a 120-story building in Red Square, including 30 floors devoted to a five-star hotel with an Ivanka Trump-branded spa and Trump restaurants, and 230 high-end condominiums for Russian oligarchs and leaders.
    The plan, Cohen adds, was to give the penthouse apartment to the Russian president for free, in part “as a way to suck up to Putin.”
    “The whole idea of patriotism and treason became irrelevant in his mind,” Cohen writes. “Trump was using the campaign to make money for himself: of course he was.”

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  282. Alleged ‘boogaloo’ member arrested for mailing threats to California public health official
    ……..
    The Santa Clara Sheriff’s office said it had been investigating letters sent over the last several months to Dr. Sara Cody, the Santa Clara County public health officer, that used “profane and threatening language” against her, the sheriff’s office said in a news release.
    ……..
    Investigators discovered a fingerprint on one of the letters and matched it with Alan Viarengo, 55, of Gilroy, the sheriff’s office said.

    Officers set up surveillance of Viarengo and saw him drop off a letter at a post office mailbox in Watsonville, the sheriff’s office said. Investigators worked with the United States Postal Service and intercepted the letter, which was allegedly addressed to Cody and contained a threatening message, officials said.
    ……….
    “After conducting a search of Viarengo’s residence, detectives located 138 firearms, thousands of rounds of ammunition, and explosive materials,” the sheriff’s office said in its news release.

    Investigators also said Viarengo’s fingerprint was found on a threatening letter sent to the widow of Santa Cruz County Sheriff’s Office Sgt. Damon Gutzwiller, who was killed in the line of duty on June 6 by an alleged boogaloo follower.

    “The letter contained language mocking the death of Sgt. Gutzwiller and also wishing death upon more law enforcement officers,” the sheriff’s office said.

    Attorney information for Viarengo, who was charged with stalking and threatening a public official, was not immediately available.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  283. “CoViD probably won’t kill me.”

    Gryph (f63000) — 9/6/2020 @ 6:33 am

    While you are probably right, and I think right about most of us, that doesn’t mean that we won’t get infected and unknowingly transmit it to someone else, who may die from it. To me, the question is, just how cavalier do I want to be with my life, and with the lives of others as well? If it costs me absolutely nothing to wear a mask or social distance, why wouldn’t I? And frankly, why wouldn’t anyone? Erring on the side of caution during a pandemic just seems like a common sense decision.

    Dana (292df6)

  284. Trump loved Putin, Cohen wrote, because the Russian leader had the ability “to take over an entire nation and run it like it was his personal company — like the Trump Organization, in fact.”

    This sounds about right. We have seen these authoritarian tendencies of sheer greed in Trump. Trying to take over the country and run it like his personal business, and financially benefiting wherever and however he can sounds like him.

    Dana (292df6)

  285. Conor Friedersdorf
    @conor64
    ·
    Basically, the center-right is terrified of the far-left and the center-left is terrified of the far right, and that is causing both to be less willing to criticize the fringe that is closest to them, which many earnestly see as obviously the lesser threat.
    __ _

    Elizabeth Bruenig
    @ebruenig
    ·
    Seems poignant that the major threat of the far left is higher taxes, while the major threat of the far right is, well, Dachau or Verdun
    __ _

    Kayla Elizabeth
    @VixenRogue
    ·
    100 million victims of communism can’t be reached for comment.
    __

    Elizabeth Bruenig
    @ebruenig

    My sense is that we’re talking specifically about the kinds of left and right political activity actually gaining steam in the US. On the left, you’ve got agitation for an American welfare state, while on the right you have the steady mainstreaming of pretty overt fascism
    __ _

    Noam Blum
    @neontaster
    ·
    Mobs of violent people who have been burning down small businesses for months represent which side again?
    __ _

    KingCanute
    @CanuteTheKing
    ·
    The Left spent the entirety of lockdown engaging in activities specifically designed to bring about the kind of “fascist” response they’ve been dishonestly prescribing to Trump since before he took office.

    Plan is obviously to point it out while telling American people: “Told you so!”
    __ _

    polaroidsforthepoor
    @pictureprovidor
    ·
    Protests for equality do tend to make fascists respond. “Look what you made me do” the call of the abuser throughout time.
    __ _

    KingCanute Flag of United Kingdom
    @CanuteTheKing
    ·
    They’re not protesting for Equality (Equality of Opportunity); they’re *rioting* and *looting* for Equity (Equality of Outcome). Intelligent people know the difference. And the trigger appears to be a mathematically illiterate understanding of data pertaining to police shootings.
    __ _

    Steve Campbell
    @ReformedWriter
    ·
    Nailed it.

    __ _

    harkin (cd4502)

  286. I forgot one of the more juicier paragraphs from the DDID…

    Cohen writes that before winning the presidency, Trump held a meeting at Trump Tower with prominent evangelical leaders, where they laid their hands on him in prayer. Afterward, Trump allegedly said: “Can you believe that bulls–t? Can you believe people believe that bulls–t?”

    Attention white evangelicals: You all have been chumped.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  287. Voters skeptical about potential COVID-19 vaccine and say that one this year would be rushed – CBS News poll
    ………
    Just 21% of voters nationwide now say they would get a vaccine as soon as possible if one became available at no cost, down from 32% in late July. Most would consider it but would wait to see what happens to others before getting one.

    Two-thirds of voters think if a vaccine were announced as soon as this year, their initial thought would be that it was rushed through without enough testing, rather than a scientific achievement that happened quickly. Among those who feel it would have been rushed, just 13% say they would get a vaccine for the coronavirus as soon as possible if one were available.
    ……..
    Back in March, 86% of voters trusted the CDC for accurate information about the virus, but today just 54% do. Trust is down across all major demographics, including both Democrats and Republicans. Fewer also trust the media, their state’s governor and President Trump for accurate information about the coronavirus, compared to the spring.
    ……..
    When a vaccine is developed, 75% of voters think the next president, whoever it is, should publicly take the vaccine to help show the public it is safe. Here we see agreement along partisan lines: Majorities of Republicans (65%), Democrats (84%) and independents (76%) all think the next president should do this.
    >>>>>

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  288. You’re mass shoplifting. Most stores are insured; it’s just hurting insurance companies on some level.

    That’s not his best argument.

    He could argue that it even maybe helps the storeowner. (but they’re not cynical enough or don’t believe people will buy into this.)

    If they;ve been closed, business interruption insurance does not apply and they may have stopped paying the premiums anyway. But they may have insurance against theft. They could repair and restock (perhaps with less inventory) and also pay the landlord.

    If they get government help – a big if – even more so.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  289. DRJ,

    I appreciate you being the voice of moderation.

    My issue has always come down to the issue of choice. Businesses should be allowed to proceed and take any precautions they deem necessary. Patrons should be allowed to choose where they give their business. The government should not be picking winners and losers.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  290. 303 “his” Should be “her”

    The lies NPR is talking about seem to be that the rioters didn’t target (or avoided) locally owned businesses; that the leaders of the civil rights movement really believed in violence but adopted the tactic of nonviolence only to appease northern white people (I thought it was they were worried about local southern whites – the lie here is that there was no sympathy for them among whites in the south at all) and that small-business owners don’t create jobs. Plus some very unpalatable opinions.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  291. Voters concerned about vaccine after seeing Gates vaccine giving people polio in Africa.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/sep/02/vaccine-derived-polio-spreads-in-africa-after-defeat-of-wild-virus

    Unfortunately this often happens with a new vaccine, but it shouldn’t happen with one as established as a polio vaccine.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  292. https://nypost.com/2020/09/05/two-boogaloo-boys-accused-of-trying-to-supply-weapons-to-hamas/

    Supplying weapons to Hamas? Doesn’t sound very right wing of them. Wonder why Murdock didn’t mention this one as he loves the boogaloo posts.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  293. https://pjmedia.com/columns/david-solway-2/2020/09/06/the-end-of-sports-n896312
    Have not read a box score this season. May never again. Don’t watch, don’t listen, don’t care.

    mg (8cbc69)

  294. I don’t want to defend Trump as a great guy, but blindly accepting every argument that disfavors him is JUST as tiresome as the arguments of those who blindly follow him.

    I agree that we should not blindly accept any argument for or against anyone. However, with Trump we can assess those arguments based on what he has revealed to us, what he has said to us (and we have heard with our own ears), and what he has written (seen with our own eyes). This is not blindly accepting arguments that goes against him, it is taking the individual’s own documented history and testimony into consideration, and then making a decision about the veracity of his claims. Unfortunately, loyalty to Trump *requires* his followers to reflexively push back on any criticism of him – even if it is based on Trump’s own utterances and behaviors. I can’t even count how many times I have been attacked or mocked at a post for making a criticism of Trump based on his own words and actions. You can’t have an honest conversation about Trump if there is no willingness to actually look at his own words and deeds. Blindly accepting every argument that favors Trump seems to be the default position of his followers.

    Dana (292df6)

  295. Since this is an open thread, and because I’m finding all this bad news increasingly annoying and boring, I’m going to write about something positive and affirmative.

    I watched a really good movie last night, Ford vs. Ferrari. It tells the true story of how Carroll Shelby (Matt Damon) and Ken Miles (Christian Bale) came to design and build probably the most famous race car in the world, the Ford GT40, and improbably win at Le Mans in 1966.

    Because it is a movie and not a documentary, there may be a few historical inaccuracies; however, it is a very well made dramatization of a real life events. And, like all true human dramas, it has a tragic ending that through catharsis is deeply inspiring.

    This movie takes you back to what I refer to as Lost America, simpler times filled with great expectations. I was just a child in 1966, 4-5 years old, and had no concept of motorsports. But I do remember that my father bought a GT40, and one day he took his family for a ride.

    My mother and youngest brother, a newborn, sat shotgun, while I, my sister, and brother rode in the backseats. There was this strip mall with a large parking lot, that had a big sign held up by two steel poles. This is where my father took us; he parked on the far side of the (empty) parking lot and said, “Everyone, buckle up.” Then, tires screeching, he put the pedal to the metal and raced straight toward the sign. The acceleration actually pushed us kids in the back further into our seats–hey, you could feel it, and it scared us. He kept racing toward that sign, and my mother was totally freaking out, screaming, “Stop! Stop!” He just shifted gear and kept pushing on the accelerator, and then–ZOOM!–we flew those two poles at like 100 mph! He hit the brakes and spun the car around and said, “Wasn’t that fun?”

    Obviously, he had made practice runs before, otherwise he never would have risked the lives of his family. That did not stop my mother from smacking his face and screaming, “What were you thinking?!” As kids, we were breathless, scared out our minds. But we were all safe. So, when we got back home, were fed and went to bed, we never really thought about it again, other than as just some adventure Dad dreamed up. (But I can guarantee you that my mother had several words to say about it to my father, for decades.)

    This is what I’m talking about. I didn’t really understand that young life experience until I watched Ford vs. Ferrari. I get it now. That was just the way things were back in the day.

    To me, the most profound scene is when Miles is carrying groceries home to his wife and son, and Shelby confronts him on the street; they get into a fight. Mrs. Miles simply takes a foldable lawn chair off the porch and sets it on the sidewalk, sits and reads the society page or some popular magazine, while the two of them beat each other up. Then she says, “Is there anything either of you need from the store?”

    That’s it. That’s precisely it. For thousands of years, the sexes didn’t take each other seriously. Men worked outdoors, women worked indoors. They really didn’t have much to do with each other, except when it came to the formation of a family, which is and always has been the female’s greatest concern.

    Okay, so this woman, this wife and mother, opens the door and sees her husband and his best friend duking it out across the street. What to do? Pull up a lawn chair, read the society page, then ask . . . “What do you need from the store?” She knows they’re not going to kill each other, so she just waits until they’ve exhausted themselves, then asks, “What do you need . . .”

    That is true to life. That is true to human experience. And every real woman and every real man knows it.

    The movie delves deeper into societal issues, such at that between workers and executives. You can call that as the typical liberal (read, now, as socialist, communist) ideology. Blah, blah, blah. But at the time it was really about the disagreement between the working class and the corporative class.

    Ken Miles and Carroll Shelby built the greatest race car. Shelby insisted on Miles, but corporate had personality issues. Miles did in fact with Le Mans, in 1966, but he was denied, robbed off 1st place, by corporate.

    Second place is for losers, so I guess Trump would consider him a loser. Um, the car he designed won more races at Le Mans than any other car.

    Ken Miles, unfortunately, died in a crash testing an experimental new design, in front of his young son no less. So, yeah, it is a tragedy. But it is at the same time, inspiring.

    Miles could have easily won Le Mons by miles, in fact he made the sacrifice to slow down so that his other Ford teammates could catch up, in order for them to drive across the finish line together. For a photo-op. He actually crossed the finish line first, but the commission (i.e., corporate) gave the title to the second, because they argued that he had come from further behind. Yeah, because Miles had slowed down and allowed him to do so. Miles did not complain, protest or cause a fuss.

    He knew what he was doing. He deliberately slowed down. He was a military veteran, and he understood it doesn’t matter who gets the medal, it’s about which team wins the war.

    Trump has no concept of this kind of sacrifice.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  296. Regarding the vaccine 302, do you think there is any correlation between those who wear masks wanting to take the vaccine asap and those who don’t wear masks not wanting to take the vaccine ever? I ask because I met a neighbor down the street who is anti-mask, anti-vax, and even pushed the 5G microchip conspiracy theory (to my shock), and it made me consider how things will go if there is a safe and effective vaccine rolled out to the public and enough people like her refuse to take it?

    Dana (292df6)

  297. Meet the Press did an entire show about absentee voting:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-september-6-2020-n1239438

    All this seems to have been done with the premise that everybody knows all along whom they want to vote for. An maybe reasonable simplifying assumption, but not true.

    So I think no discussion of what happens when or if somebody wants to change their vote, or votes in two ways.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  298. Trump has no concept of this kind of sacrifice.</blockquote

    Trump appears to see sacrifice as a weakness. It's like he believes that giving something up for others means that you have relinquished strength and power and assumed a position of weakness. Only losers would do that. You know, like denying your own powers over Heaven and Earth and becoming like a lamb to the slaughter and being nailed to a Cross for the sake of everyone who will ever walk the earth.

    Dana (292df6)

  299. Sept. 6, 2020, 8:23 AM CDT

    CHUCK TODD:

    ….Good Sunday morning and a happy Labor Day weekend to everyone. Not only may this actually be the most important election in our lifetime, it certainly will be the most unusual or unlike any election in our lifetime. This year, because of the COVID-19 pandemic, for the first time a majority of Americans say they plan to vote early, and that has huge consequences. According to this week’s NBC News/SurveyMonkey poll, 52 percent of Americans say they plan to vote early. Thirty-three percent of them by mail, 19 percent early in person. But there is a huge split between how Democrats and Republicans plan to vote: Fifty-four percent of those who lean Republican plan to vote on Election Day in-person while among those who lean Democratic, 71 percent plan to vote by mail or early in-person. That is all but certain to lead to an Election Night in which President Trump may appear to be leading because those Election Day votes are counted first [*] and are Republican-leaning, only to fall behind Joe Biden in the following days and even weeks as mostly Democratic mail-in votes are counted.

    * He’s wrong already. What votes are counted first depends on the state.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  300. 310. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 9/6/2020 @ 9:28 am

    My mother and youngest brother, a newborn, sat shotgun, while I, my sister, and brother rode in the backseats. There was this strip mall with a large parking lot, that had a big sign held up by two steel poles. This is where my father took us; he parked on the far side of the (empty) parking lot and said, “Everyone, buckle up.” Then, tires screeching, he put the pedal to the metal and raced straight toward the sign. The acceleration actually pushed us kids in the back further into our seats–hey, you could feel it, and it scared us. He kept racing toward that sign, and my mother was totally freaking out, screaming, “Stop! Stop!” He just shifted gear and kept pushing on the accelerator, and then–ZOOM!–we flew those two poles at like 100 mph! He hit the brakes and spun the car around and said, “Wasn’t that fun?”

    Obviously, he had made practice runs before, otherwise he never would have risked the lives of his family. That did not stop my mother from smacking his face and screaming, “What were you thinking?!” As kids, we were breathless, scared out our minds. But we were all safe.

    And all without child car seats.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  301. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/04/opinion/coronavius-donald-trump.html

    … I assumed I would not get Covid-19 if I took basic precautions. Now I have Covid-19. My head feels like a cabbage. Aches swirl down my arms and legs. So please, dear reader, grant me a little indulgence this once.

    My symptoms began Thursday Aug. 27, a sharp prickling in my throat, from nothing. A cabdriver said, “You are coughing, sir.” I said, I know, I am sorry, I am trying not to cough.

    I am in a Paris apartment I have rented for a couple of weeks….A day later my symptoms worsened. I had a fever of 101. Hot flushes, and shivers, alternated. My mind swirled. So, this is it. The plague that stopped the world. I was more curious than afraid. It’s hard to shed the reflexes of a life lived as an observer.

    Since the pandemic started, I have wondered, like everybody, how to live. “Stay safe” is no guide to a life worth living. Surrender to fear and it’s over. My most powerful memories and experiences involved risk. When you quit, you’re done. Yet now an invisible enemy demanded prudence….

    …The virus is deadly serious but plays games. A little relief to tempt you into activity — then it smites you with a cudgel. I felt better last weekend until I tried a peach tart. It’s eerie to experience texture without taste. A Coke with ice and lemon was no more than fizz. My body was a stranger. It was out there somewhere, fighting. The fight demanded all its energy. There was nothing left for me….

    …For three hours I lined up for a free coronavirus test. A medic told me the swab in my nostrils would be “disagreeable but not painful.” She then stabbed my brain with what looked like a narrow brochette stick. “That was painful,” I said.

    My test result, received two days later, was “positive.” I knew it would be, but still reading the lab result was hard. I am not sure why. Perhaps the certain knowledge that a virus is inside you that could kill you. But then so many things can, and death is life’s one certainty — and we don’t stop the world. We try to make life better. The only way out of this is through.

    The plague is back. In fact, as Camus observed, it never goes away. It is waiting to exploit stupidity. Trump wants violence. Do not give it to him. Turn the other cheek. Be stoical. Be the person who stops the tank by standing there.

    I am hunkered down. My survival chances are still better than those of an opposition leader in the Russia of Trump’s buddy. My daughter and her husband, both doctors, say I have a moderate case. I think I picked it up in a crowded Paris bar watching a soccer match. Whether soccer or life is more important is an open question to me…..

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  302. NJRob @307-
    Wonder why Murdock didn’t mention this one as he loves the boogaloo posts.

    I didn’t know about this story, but I’m more interested in domestic terrorism anyway.

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  303. @316: Sammy, help me out here, as I don’t pay the NYT to get past their wall.

    So, this guy has been in Paris for two weeks and catches DontCallItWuhanFlu. Or, maybe he caught it in the US and travelled to Paris to spread it there — though doesn’t the EU have a US travel ban?

    Anyway, what does this have to do with Trump? What’s the It’sTrumpFault bottom line?

    beer ‘n pretzels (acaaba)

  304. Trump has no concept of this kind of sacrifice.

    One of the weirdest things believed about Trump by his fans his that he is the most selfless, self-sacrificing president ever, because “he was already rich” and he supposedly “gave up everything — for us!” So maybe he used to behave badly (the thinking goes), but now he’s atoning for his past sins by being president! (I’ve actually seen that argument.)

    Another weird thing believed by Trump’s defenders is that he is a much better person than his public persona, aka his “style,” would indicate. (Which they would not believe about anyone else.) Then, whenever someone steps out to attest that Trump in private is actually very much like his “style,” or worse, the Trumpistas claim to find it literally unbelievable — having chosen to disbelieve the evidence presented daily to their own ears and eyes.

    Or they’ll resort to another weird belief: that “the man” can be completely separated from how the man makes decisions and chooses to act.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  305. Dana @311-
    I think there Is a strong correlation between anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers. Both are are against government mandates of any sort. I wear a mask when I’m out in a crowd, at work, and when I go shopping. But my girlfriend and I won’t be the first in line for a vaccine, even though we are both over 60, especially one that miraculously is released before election. We’ll wait for the shake out of problems-paralysis, vomiting, and death (I exaggerate).

    Trump will tout the vaccine like a snake oil salesman. He and his family should be the first to take it on live television.

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  306. 302 Rip Murdock (ac5491) — 9/6/2020 @ 8:58 am

    When a vaccine is developed, 75% of voters think the next president, whoever it is, should publicly take the vaccine to help show the public it is safe. Here we see agreement along partisan lines: Majorities of Republicans (65%), Democrats (84%) and independents (76%) all think the next president should do this.

    Kamala Harris says she won’t take a vaccine if it is released ahead of the election because she says she doesn’t trust President Trump that it would be safe and effective. She also declined to take a position on whether taking the vaccine should be a condition for children to go to school.

    (of course anything released wthat early would be released in limited quantities, most likely offered to people in nursing homes or medical professionals. The companies developing vaccines plan to issue ajoint statement saying they will not succumb to pressure to approve a vaccine too early (but they;re not saying anythhin the other way – pressure from politicians to delay)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/04/science/covid-vaccine-pharma-pledge.html

    A group of drug companies competing with one another to be among the first to develop coronavirus vaccines are planning to pledge early next week that they will not release any vaccines that do not follow rigorous efficacy and safety standards, according to representatives of three of the companies.

    The statement, which has not yet been finalized, is meant to reassure the public that the companies will not seek a premature approval of vaccines under political pressure from the Trump administration. President Trump has pushed for a vaccine to be available by October — just before the presidential election — and a growing number of scientists, regulators and public health experts have expressed concern over what they see as a pattern of political arm-twisting by the Trump administration in its efforts to combat the virus.

    Dr. Scott Gottlieb told Face the Nation he doubted that the scientific staff at the FDA would approve anything they had doubts about:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-scott-gottlieb-discusses-coronavirus-on-face-the-nation-september-6-2020

    DR. GOTTLIEB: …There is a very rigorous process around the development and approval of a vaccine. And I’m on the board of Pfizer, which is one of the companies developing a vaccine, which is pretty far along. First there’s a data safety monitoring board overseeing that trial. And the data doesn’t get unmasked to the drug developer and to the FDA until the data safety monitoring board is comfortable with the conduct of the trial in terms of letting it continue. Then the company needs to file that data with the agency and ask for permission, either for an authorization or approval. And then you have a very rigorous process inside the FDA. And I led that institution and worked there in three different iterations during both the Bush administration and the Trump administration, and I have absolute confidence in the scientific staff that’s going to review this application. It’s a very rigorous process. There’s multiple layers of review among people who are expert in these areas. And so I don’t think those people are going to be pushed around to make a decision that they’re not absolutely confident in…

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  307. a domestic terrorist like susan rosenberg, who heads thousand current (based in berkeley, of course) which is in partnership with the tides foundation and through them act blue, the funnel for the extortion gang, which is responsible for torching and smashing cities, statues, et al,

    this reinhold punk is just a bottom feeder, like a triggerman on a crew, but the times treats him like some victim, this is why I fear the matter will come to blows soon enough,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  308. we’ve seen how gilead has through surgisphere, and other strategems demonized the hcq cocktail in combination with zinc, so I’m not confident of the results they will present, but you know as it has happened with masks, they will mandate you take it, to do everyday tasks, will you take the chance then,

    the methodology is untested, there is too much of a rush to bring it to mark, based on the fear premium, but it has very little to do with trump, but you insists on giving this virago, more power,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  309. @323-
    The FDA leadership has demonstrated that it will do what Trump wants.

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  310. I’ll take the vaccine if Gottlieb and Fauci say that it’s safe and effective (and the FDA says the same, but not under political duress), but I doubt it’ll happen for anyone until early 2021. The at-risk folks should get it first, and I’m below 60 (but not by much) and healthy as a horse, so I don’t expect to get one until summer or later.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  311. beer ‘n pretzels (acaaba) — 9/6/2020 @ 10:05 am

    @316: Sammy, help me out here, as I don’t pay the NYT to get past their wall.

    You get a few free articles. Browsing without cookies would let you see that.

    So, this guy has been in Paris for two weeks and catches DontCallItWuhanFlu. Or, maybe he caught it in the US and travelled to Paris to spread it there — though doesn’t the EU have a US travel ban?

    He’s an Op-ed columnist for the New York Times. He says:

    For more than three months I scarcely moved from my Brooklyn neighborhood. I mourned New York. I tried to get used to the end of conviviality and the way “coronavirus” slips from the tongues of my five grandchildren, aged 2 to 6.

    I tried and failed. Still, we have to get on with it, show up. That’s life’s first admonition. I drove to Georgia, did some reporting, and wrote. I came to Europe to look and listen.

    His reporting from Georgia was from late June. He doesn’t explain how he managed to get into Europe, but he says he’s been there a couple of weeks. That would be too long for the incubation period. The column is dated (Friday) September 4, and his first symptoms were noticed on Thursday, August 27.

    Anyway, what does this have to do with Trump? What’s the It’sTrumpFault bottom line?

    His main problem with Trump seems to be that he’s a proud nationalist, like thise Europeans who started World War I, ready to fight his battles down to the last sucker. And Eropean nationalism later led to Fascism in Italy, National Socialism in Germany, and Bolshevism in Russia. That coming from a book. He’s been looking at a book written by Stephen Zweig,
    and lamenting that, as in the case of Syephen Zweig, his world is gone. He describes him as “[A] Viennese Jew born into an empire that no longer existed, his books burned in a Europe reduced to barbarism, [who] wrote: “All the livid steeds of the Apocalypse have stormed through my life.” He and his wife committed suicide in Brazil in 1942.

    The book is called “The World of Yesterday” Roger Cohen also laments that his world has disappeared. He even laments that nobody seems to care anything about the Cold War, and more than half his life was lived while it was going on.

    Now his complaint about Trump maybe would be the shut borders, or the riots in the United States, with the feeling that Trump isn’t helping.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  312. Geoff Bennett

    Biden pool report: “Biden walked into St. Joseph’s on the Brandywine Church at 10:35am”

    Trump pool report: “At 9:54 motorcade has arrived Trump Golf Course in Sterling, Va.”

    Can you believe people believe that bullsh*t?

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  313. On April 3 Roger Cohen wrote about the virus, and he seemed to divide the blame equally between Xi and Trump. (Trump for not being concerned enough about it and not getting together with other countries to fight it.)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/03/opinion/coronavirus-pandemic.html

    Yet the two most powerful men on earth, President Xi Jinping of China and President Trump, have responded with petty national interest that has cost myriad lives. They have failed the world, a superpower debacle.

    China covered up the initial coronavirus outbreak in December for several weeks and then tried to divert attention from its biological Chernobyl through trumpeting its success in containing the illness (the numbers remain dubious), offering international assistance (some in the form of defective masks and tests), and propagating the wild conspiracy theory that the plague did not start in Wuhan but was cooked up in an American military lab and delivered by the United States team attending the Military World Games in Wuhan last October.

    The lesson is not, as China would have it, that despotic regimes deal more effectively with disaster but that they incubate the fear that made it impossible for doctors and authorities in Wuhan to communicate rapidly the scale of the threat.

    A series of tweets last month [March] from the Chinese Embassy in France lauding China’s and Asia’s superior response to the virus due to the “sense of community and citizenship that Western democracies lack” was grotesque. Li Wenliang, who died in February, and Ai Fen, who appears to have disappeared, are the whistleblower doctors of Wuhan whom humanity must never forget.

    Trump tweeted on March 29, as Americans died, that “President Trump is a ratings hit.” His daily Covid-19 reality TV show, which he called his “coronavirus updates,” had “an astounding number” of viewers, “more akin to the viewership for a popular prime-time sitcom.”

    If you want a quick definition of obscenity, that’s it. This is the mentality, or rather the mental affliction, that compounded the Chinese cover-up with a Trump-authored American confabulation that lost another six weeks in dismissal of the pandemic as a hoax.

    The world is leaderless. Every country for itself. Swirling in lies and rumors. Schoolyard petulance, like Mike Pompeo, the worst American secretary of state in a long time, insisting on calling this coronavirus “the Wuhan virus.” This is Trump’s world, and Xi’s.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  314. 322. Rip Murdock (ac5491) — 9/6/2020 @ 10:15 am

    We’ll wait for the shake out of problems-paralysis, vomiting, and death (I exaggerate).

    There don’t seem to be effects that serious, but there are bad effects which for many people would be worse than getting the disease.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  315. Patterico (115b1f)

  316. I am responsible for myself and my family. You are responsible for your own. I pay enough for the welfare of others through taxation and insurance. As do you. If you’re afraid of life, stay home.

    NJRob,

    Just listen to yourself.

    Look: we all have to take risks in this environment. Sometimes they will be careful and sometimes less so. Me, I’m trying to be careful but I’m not perfect. But this attitude that there’s no danger and the pose of bravery and insulting people who are being careful as “afraid of life” … it does not reflect well on you.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  317. @278. ROFLMAOPIP! from Frogland to the Swamp– where American citizens have a better chance to view the items on display on a White House tour than at an elitist embassy cocktail party in Europe.

    Next time he’s in London, he outta pick up America’s Apollo 10 CM, ‘Charlie Brown’ from the Brits, and bring it home, too. Plenty of room for Americans, who paid for it, to view it at the NASM.

    “I was elected to represent the citizens of Pittsburgh, not Paris.” – President Donald J. Trump, 6/1/2017

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  318. @328, @330: Thank you, Sammy.

    beer ‘n pretzels (4bef1a)

  319. Roger Cohen:

    a Trump-authored American confabulation that lost another six weeks in dismissal of the pandemic as a hoax.

    Now Trump didn’t call it a hoax, but he said it was contained but everybody else was saying that too,

    Paul Krugman wrote that the real criticism of Trump comes in April, when he wanted to say it was over, and, perhaps, encouraged some states to open up too much too early.

    https://www.baltimoresun.com/featured/sns-nyt-op-april-trumps-cruelest-month-20200828-sxuh7hxijrcktjl2avwvzqtdji-story.html

    Speaker after speaker at the Republican National Convention referred to COVID-19, if at all, in the past tense. Their not-so-subtle message was that the pandemic is over. But it isn’t, and the Trump administration is still failing to protect the American people.

    If I had to pick a single day when America lost the fight against the coronavirus, it would be April 17. That was the day when Trump proclaimed his support for mobs — some of whose members were carrying guns — that were threatening Democratic state governments and demanding an end to social distancing. “LIBERATE MINNESOTA,” he tweeted, followed by “LIBERATE MICHIGAN” and “LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd amendment.” (That last bit reads an awful lot like an incitement to armed insurrection.)

    In so doing, Trump, in his eagerness to see good economic numbers, chose to disregard warnings from health experts that returning to business as usual would lead to a new surge in infections. And while the Democratic governors he targeted mostly ignored his taunts, many Republican governors, especially in the Sunbelt, rushed to remove restrictions on restaurants, bars, even gyms.

    The result was a vast national catastrophe.
    As in the early days of the pandemic, Trump and those around him wasted crucial weeks denying what was happening and refusing to take action. On June 16 an op-ed article by Mike Pence declared that there wasn’t a coronavirus ’‘second wave.” (Spoiler: there was.) Four days later, Trump held an indoor rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, without social distancing and with very few people wearing masks, in an apparent attempt to convey the sense that things were fine.

    Of course, things weren’t fine. Here’s one way to see how fine they weren’t: On the day Trump issued his LIBERATE demands, around 33,000 Americans had died from COVID-19. The total now is around 180,000. That is, the vast majority of COVID-19 deaths in the United States have occurred since Trump effectively tried to sound the all-clear.

    To be fair, some of those additional deaths would surely have happened even if Trump had done what he should have done: urged states to impose and maintain strict limits on indoor gatherings, called for social distancing, encouraged Americans to wear masks instead of ridiculing the practice and so on. But many, perhaps most, of those deaths could have been avoided.

    Then he claims the economy is going to get worse again, now ad he blames him for the school shutdowns.

    But none of these lockdowns eliminates the disease. It just sets the clock back. It amounts only to treading water.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  320. Infections have climbed sharply in France. Roger Cohen almost certainly got infected in France.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  321. One of the weirdest things believed about Trump by his fans his that he is the most selfless, self-sacrificing president ever, because “he was already rich” and he supposedly “gave up everything — for us!” Radegunda (e1ea47) — 9/6/2020 @ 10:05 am

    For the record, I have never heard any Trump fan utter express that sentiment. But if one, here, were to say such a thing, would they be wrong?

    Trump is the only POTUS, ever, to selflessly sacrifice his salary, all of it. SSo, in a field of one, yes, he is “the most.”

    ‘Because “he was already rich.”‘ This is your claim, but yes, Trump was already rich. Did you think to write “only because?” You missed an opportunity for extra hyberbole.

    ‘and he supposedly “gave up everything — for us!”’ Trump did give up “everything” of his salary – for the American people, you know, “us.” Why say supposedly? It it unproven?

    felipe (023cc9)

  322. If I had to pick a single day when America lost the fight against the coronavirus, it would be April 17.

    That’s BS revisionist history. The country pretty much kept things together until the Floyd protests which, I’m guessing, Cohen excused. After that, the lockdowns became a joke.

    beer ‘n pretzels (fd065b)

  323. Next time he’s in London, he outta pick up America’s Apollo 10 CM, ‘Charlie Brown’ from the Brits, and bring it home, too. Plenty of room for Americans, who paid for it, to view it at the NASM.

    Nah. I really resent that they took the little trainer space shuttle away from the Johnson Space Center. I discovered that accidentally when in Seattle when I thought they must have made two of these things. Nope. They took all the space shuttles, all the trainers, and the like, put them in blue states. Nothing for the flyover.

    I think manned space travel is an accomplishment that is beyond the scope of one nation, even if it was motivated by two nations trying to win. Let London have something like that. Most of this stuff was related to operation paperclip anyway. “You didn’t build that.” They should really put some of this stuff in Berlin if you think about it.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  324. Now Trump didn’t call it a hoax, but he said it was contained but everybody else was saying that too,

    Trump asserted that Democrats were politicizing CV19, which was their ‘new hoax’. Except for Kudlow and other Trump sycophants, I don’t recall anyone else saying the virus was “contained”.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  325. If you’re afraid of life, stay home.

    Why is there this insistence on equating reasonable concern about a pandemic as being the same as being afraid of life? They are not one and the same. We are now living under a uniquely different set of circumstances, thus adapating to it and changing one’s lifestyle may be in order. Adaptation is how we survive. How we behave under normal circumstances may not be the logical or most beneficial way to live under this very different set of circumstances. Adapting to the circumstances in order to live as fully as possible while protecting our fellow man seems to be less about being fearful and more about being thoughtful and respectful of our neighbors – as well as being mindful about a disease with a high rate of contagion.

    Dana (292df6)

  326. They should really put some of this stuff in Berlin if you think about it.
    Dustin (825e2c) — 9/6/2020 @ 11:17 am

    I have thought about it, and I agree. The giant leap was “for Mankind.” All of it. It belongs to the world.

    felipe (023cc9)

  327. felipe (023cc9) — 9/6/2020 @ 11:16 am

    Trump is the only POTUS, ever, to selflessly sacrifice his salary, all of it.

    I think, I’m sot sure that Franklin Delano Roosevelt did it too, or accepted only $1.

    As did John F. Kennedy.

    And Herbert Hoover.

    And George Washington, too.

    https://blog.timesunion.com/payitforward/charitable-u-s-presidents/1688

    George Washington (term 1789-1797) refused to accept a salary. At his first inauguration, George Washington added the “so help me God” to the end of the oath of office.

    ….

    Herbert Hoover (1929-1933) donated all of his presidential salary to charity, and was the first of all presidents to donate his salary to charity. When he first got into politics, he decided to never accept money for performing any public service, so that no one would ever accuse him of corruption. He only took the presidential salary because he was required to do so by law. (Interesting considering he was an orphan whose first job was picking bugs off potato plants, for which he was paid a dollar per hundred bugs. He also was a mine worker.)

    …..

    John F. Kennedy (1961-1963) donated his salary to charity.

    Of course, George Washington also did not accept a salary as Commander of the Revolutionary Army but instead charged for expenses

    https://www.amazon.com/George-Washingtons-Expense-Account-Washington/dp/0802137733

    One review:

    This is a hilarious send-up of our founding father. He notes expense after expense “to Wash” which the author notes ended up being a lot of money for laundry. My admiration for our first president is immense, especially because he quit after 8 years and turned the presidency over to Adams. But to find out he began his tenure as commander of the continental army by selling his gun and buying a horse! Classic! Of course asking for his expenses to be covered meant he didn’t have to keep begging politicians to pay him for spies and such. Although he and his staff did drink an awful lot of Madeira. Enormous fun to read.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  328. Sammy Finkelman (b66da2) — 9/6/2020 @ 11:28 an

    Thank you, Sammy! By the way, What do you think of the agreement between Kosovo and Serbia?

    felipe (023cc9)

  329. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/opinion/george-floyd-protests.html

    …..There is no right to pillage and burn in the United States. But human beings will react to entrenched state violence, in extreme cases a license to kill, which is what black Americans have confronted for centuries. All that is needed for rebellion against relentless oppression is a spark. What happens to a dream deferred, asked Langston Hughes? “Does it explode?”

    The savageness of white apathy: a striking phrase, and sometimes it is worse than apathy. Consider Amy Cooper, that highly educated white woman caught on video in Central Park. She found herself saying she would tell the police there is “an African-American man threatening my life.” Because a black man, Christian Cooper (no relation), an avid birder, had properly asked her to leash her dog. It’s important to call such racist aggression by its name.

    Those impulses are what President Trump, a racist who launched his successful campaign in 2015 by calling Mexicans entering the country “rapists,” plays on. Violence and division are his elements. He has no other. Hence his recent threat to deploy the military to quash “domestic terror,” his repeated talk of “domination,” his encouragement to violence couched in endless references to Second Amendment rights, and his tweeting support for Senator Tom Cotton, a prominent Republican, who called in a tweet for the deployment of “10th Mountain, 82nd Airborne, 1st Cav, 3rd Infantry — whatever it takes to restore order.”

    Whatever it takes to do what? To stop the lawbreakers and looters, Trump and Cotton would say with breathtaking disingenuousness. The military is not needed for that.

    No, the point would be this: to assert with a great show of force, after the slow-motion murder of George Floyd by a white police officer, that the oppressive system that produced this act is not about to change and armed white male power in America is inviolable. That is Trump’s fundamental credo. His Bible-brandishing, American Gothic portrait this week outside St. John’s Episcopal Church in Washington is one of the most disturbing portraits of psychopathic self-importance seen since 1933.

    Get your knee off our necks — and American democracy….

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  330. Trump is the only POTUS, ever, to selflessly sacrifice his salary, all of it. felipe (023cc9) — 9/6/2020 @ 11:16 am

    Thanks to Sammy’s industry, I happily correct myself with the following:

    Trump is the most recent POTUS….. And correct “in a field of one…” to, in a small field.

    Thanks, again, Sammy.

    felipe (023cc9)

  331. I think it’s pretty rich that the writer who believes that looting of others is A-OK (third news item) was previously miffed that someone had shared her work without any payment, and thus linked to her PayPal account so that they could pay her.

    Dana (292df6)

  332. Poll: Most Americans believe the Covid-19 vaccine approval process is driven by politics, not science
    Seventy-eight percent of Americans worry the Covid-19 vaccine approval process is being driven more by politics than science, according to a new survey from STAT and the Harris Poll, a reflection of concern that the Trump administration may give the green light to a vaccine prematurely.

    The response was largely bipartisan, with 72% of Republicans and 82% of Democrats expressing such worries, according to the poll, which was conducted last week and surveyed 2,067 American adults.
    ………
    ……. [Trump’s] remarks over the past several months have stirred debate and anxiety over the extent to which certain FDA decisions may be politicized. In the process, the agency’s scientific integrity has been questioned and FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn, a political appointee who took the job earlier this year, has faced mounting criticism.

    In March, for instance, the agency authorized emergency use of hydroxychloroquine, a decades-old malaria tablet that Trump touted despite tenuous evidence it could help Covid-19 patients. The agency later reversed its decision after data began to suggest otherwise, and that the drug may be harmful.

    …….[T]he FDA issued emergency use of convalescent blood plasma, which Trump claimed would save “thousands and thousands of lives,” although its impact is expected to be relatively modest. The administration also labeled the move, which was announced on the eve of the Republican convention, as a “medical breakthrough.”
    ……..
    Even with concern about the FDA’s independence, the poll also found that 67% of those surveyed said they would get a vaccine as soon as one is available. Moreover, 62% are very or somewhat likely to get a Covid-19 vaccine that becomes available before the election. And Americans appear more willing to do so over time, with 71% reporting they would get vaccinated nine months after availability.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  333. Scientists are reporting several cases of Covid-19 reinfection — but the implications are complicated

    Following the news this week of what appears to have been the first confirmed case of a Covid-19 reinfection, other researchers have been coming forward with their own reports. One in Belgium, another in the Netherlands. And now, one in Nevada.

    What caught experts’ attention about the case of the 25-year-old Reno man was not that he appears to have contracted SARS-CoV-2 (the name of the virus that causes Covid-19) a second time. Rather, it’s that his second bout was more serious than his first.

    Immunologists had expected that if the immune response generated after an initial infection could not prevent a second case, then it should at least stave off more severe illness. That’s what occurred with the first known reinfection case, in a 33-year-old Hong Kong man.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  334. Rip Murdock (ac5491) — 9/6/2020 @ 11:39 am

    Hey rip, I have placed you in my filter. This means that the only thing about your comments that I will see is ” Rip Murdock (hextag) — (date and timestamp)” I did this because I have tired of your providing a link replete with excerpts, but with no commentary of your own. It feels to me like spam. You said once that that you do this just to inform us of things you read and liked. OK, why should I care? Since you do not give me any reason to care, I have decided to just ignore all your comments.

    The immediate benefit for me is a less cluttered comment section. To be clear, I have not done this because of any of your views (whatever those may be).

    felipe (023cc9)

  335. Cohen on Trump’s hair routine, described as a “three-step” combover designed to disguise “unsightly scars on his scalp from a failed hair-implant operation in the 1980s.”

    Cohen says he once saw Trump shortly after a shower: “when his hair wasn’t done, his strands of dyed-golden hair reached below his shoulders along the right side of his head and on his back, like a balding Allman Brother or strung out old ’60s hippie.”

    Comedy gold! The SNL costume designers must be working overtime!

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  336. Felipe @351-

    Whatever.

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  337. Well, I notice that in the comments made on this open thread, after my previous comment, that no one wants to address the relevant point. Perhaps none of you have seen the movie, or if you did have nothing relevant to add, but Ken Miles was a decorated British soldier in WW II. The movie does not contain any information or background on whether Carroll Shelby was a decorated American soldier in WW II, but the two clearly knew and understood each other.

    In fact, that was the main reason why Shelby fought so hard for Miles, against corporate management. The executives didn’t think Miles had the “right kind” of appeal (to the crowd or the audience), and Shelby was like, “Are you kidding me?” This guy not only designed the car, but he’s the only one who can drive it!

    So many corporate machinations and political intrigues ensue. But in the end, Shelby and Miles win. It just had to be unrecognized, to the benefit of Henry Ford II and Lee Iacocca, so they could sell cars.

    It’s a very well made movie, and it tells a true story.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  338. Trump is the only POTUS, ever, to selflessly sacrifice his salary, all of it.

    … while he has found quiet ways to monetize the presidency, whether it’s by public funds, e.g. charging the Secret Service to stay in his own hotels, or private, e.g. immediately doubling fees at Mar-a-Lago, followed by another increase.

    Trump cares about personal glory and image first of all, so he might make a show of sacrificing money for glory at this late point in his life. But he himself said: “All my life I’ve been greedy. I grab and grab and grab” – and it sounded more like a boast than a confession. He didn’t suddenly change when he became president.

    The idea that Trump is making any real sacrifice of something he values for the sake of anyone else is contrary to what he has always shown himself to be: extraordinarily self-centered.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  339. @354-
    I saw it the day it came out in IMAX. I agree, it is a very well made movie, and it’s theme of the independent entrepreneur v. corporate America still resonates today. Corporations are still too risk averse. Without a personal champion in Ford, winning Le Mans would never have happened.

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  340. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 9/6/2020 @ 12:06 pm

    Well, I have not seen the movie, and since I knew nothing about the history portion, you have spoiled some of it for me. I would appreciate a “spoiler alert” in the future, when you discuss movies.

    felipe (023cc9)

  341. Well its been out for a year, the last part could have been left out.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  342. Radegunda (e1ea47) — 9/6/2020 @ 12:11 pm

    I think I understand why you feel the way you do. I condole with you.

    felipe (023cc9)

  343. This was more than a year ago:

    So far Trump’s golf trips have cost at least $105 million

    Of course other presidents have cost the taxpayers a lot of money on travel and leisure, but Trump has certainly not been at all shy about spending public money on himself.
    Nor did he ever have any intention of keeping his word about giving up golf if he won the presidency.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  344. Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 9/6/2020 @ 12:17 pm

    I saw the adverts for the movie, but I was left unpersuaded to go. “I’ll wait until it’s on Netflix.”

    felipe (023cc9)

  345. Radegunda (e1ea47) — 9/6/2020 @ 12:19 pm

    Yes, I know. But it is still as much a spoiler as “Rosebud was….”

    felipe (023cc9)

  346. Trump is the only POTUS, ever, to selflessly sacrifice his salary, all of it.

    And as of August 2019, he was estimated to have spent the equivalent of 278.5 years of his salary on golf outings, much of it expensed to his own businesses.

    Dave (1bb933)

  347. 363,

    Also, let’s not forget that Trump criticized Obama on Twitter at least 27 times for golfing too much when he was the President.

    Dana (292df6)

  348. Dave (1bb933) — 9/6/2020 @ 12:22 pm

    If he accepted his salary it might be that low – a Salary of $0 on the other hand…

    felipe (023cc9)

  349. Dana (292df6) — 9/6/2020 @ 12:27 pm

    Yeah, I never cared how much time a POTUS golfed or didn’t golf. Not Eisenhower, Not Obama, not Trump.

    felipe (023cc9)

  350. Forgive me Dana, I know that your point was about Trump’s hypocrisy, which is a different matter.

    felipe (023cc9)

  351. Comedy gold! The SNL costume designers must be working overtime!

    Sounds like Rip is a hair plugs guy.

    beer ‘n pretzels (04d329)

  352. Gawain’s Ghost, I liked your discussion of the FvF movie. I’ve worked with people who ‘don’t play the game’ and ‘aren’t team players’ yet wind up being incredibly valuable to the team because they will challenge leadership (which is leadership). Organizations often tend to fight those folks, because it’s a threat to the management, even though the it’s ultimately healthy.

    When Shelby decided to be loyal that set the stage for great accomplishments. I thought the movie ended very sadly if you don’t consider the alternative where nothing was accomplished.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  353. Forgive me Dana, I know that your point was about Trump’s hypocrisy, which is a different matter.

    felipe (023cc9) — 9/6/2020 @ 12:32 pm

    Well, it’s not just the hypocrisy, felipe, but the subject was that it is estimated that Trump has already spent 278.5 years of his salary on golf outings, with a lot of expensed to his own businesses. The fact that he accused Obama of playing too much golf on the taxpayers’ dime becomes all the more rich. I don’t see it as a different matter but rather one that is closely related to Trump, money, golf, and yes, hypocrisy.

    Dana (292df6)

  354. 345. felipe (023cc9) — 9/6/2020 @ 11:32 am

    What do you think of the agreement between Kosovo and Serbia?

    I saw sme story but didn’t read it. The first thing is to figure out why it took so long. The second thing is to figure out what is going on.

    It seems like it’s a complex deal, which also involves both countries opening up an embassy in Jerusalem – Belgrade (Serbia) will move it from Tel Aviv, and Kosovo, a Muslim country, will recognize Israel and open up its embassy in Jerusalem. (Did Kosovo make the decision about Israel first?)

    Serbia is still not actually recognizing the independence of Kosovo.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  355. #359 — so tell me why I “feel” the way I do — as distinct from thinking the way I do.

    I think that Donald Trump has offered an abundance of evidence that he is an exceptionally self-absorbed person who has no qualms about taking advantage of the weak to get what he wants, and certainly no compunction about ridiculing people he deems “losers,” which can be pretty much anyone who doesn’t consistently flatter him.

    It offends me to see such an amoral cretin being portrayed as a self-sacrificing hero directly guided by the hand of God, and as a straight-shooter who never lies to the American people — i.e. as the exact opposite of what he really is — while anyone who speaks the plain truth about Trump is tarred as a bitter hater and an enemy of God and America.

    It offends me that such a wretched example of humanity has been made into the face of the political team I have long aligned with, and has created bitter divisions among people who used to be allies and who debated their differences cordially.

    Now it all comes down to: Will you defend Trump always, no matter what? while of course denouncing others for the very sins that are supposed to be excusable in Trump because he’s so gosh-darned special that he gets his own rules.

    I’m sick of the cult-worship of a deeply unworthy creature, and of the rationalizing by people who used to deplore what they fervently defend in Trump.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  356. and that is how you justify this illegal surveillance of every member of his staff and family, the slandering of general flynn, by the ones who have pushed this no win war for 19 years, the ones who presided, republican and democrat, the wholesale transfer of our infrastructure to a hostile power, over 30 years, is that justified,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  357. 355. You can be quite critical of Trump while thinking there are some things more important to him than money. When someone has a lot of money sometimes they use that money to try to get things.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  358. “ New York beachgoers were greeted with what appears to be a grim anti-Cuomo banner in the sky Saturday.

    “THE GOV KILLED NANA,” read the banner carried on a propeller plane that flew across New York City and Long Island beaches, according to accounts on social media.

    Gov. Andrew Cuomo has been widely criticized for his handling of the state-regulated nursing homes, where at least 6,447 New Yorkers died during the health crisis.

    One Rockaway beachgoer told The Post the plane flew by around 4 p.m. as observers stopped to take pictures and applauded the message.

    “The people were going crazy,” the beachgoer said. “[Cuomo] is nothing but a liar, condescending and miserable person. His carelessness caused the death of a lot of people unnecessarily.”

    https://nypost.com/2020/09/06/banner-saying-the-gov-killed-nana-seen-flying-over-new-york-beaches/
    _ _

    The locals know what he did, even as the media attempts to make it go away.
    _

    harkin (c314b6)

  359. Dana (292df6) — 9/6/2020 @ 12:36 pm

    I understand. In my mind the pie-chart showing total tax dollars spent on an administraation, as opposed to by and Administration, may be significantly different among Presidents, with the section of the pie-chart representing “golf” being larger or smaller in further comparison. But I would rather place my focus on the money spent by the Administrations in the budgets they sign. There, you will always have my full attention and support during any Administration.

    felipe (023cc9)

  360. Dustin and Kevin M corrected me in the past week or two.

    (The following are not their exact words)

    Dustin, when I said that the virus was harder to contain than SARS and MERS possibly because it virus was less deadly, said that to an individual it was less deadly, but because everyone gets infected it kills more people than SARS or MERS and so is more deadly.

    Kevin M when I said it was true what the Republicans said at their national convention that Democrats wanted to give tax breaks to blue state millionaires, but they didn’t explain it, because people would have said that is only fair, that the main people affected by the elimination of SALT (sate and local tax) deductions were people in somewhat lower income categories than millionaires, because the top tax rate had been slightly reduced in the 2017 tax bill and that more than made up for the elimination of SALT with people with very high incomes (I think also they didn’t get it before because of the Alternative Minimum Tax)

    And Biden was proposing to reverse all the tax law changes. (In fact he also wants to raise capital gains taxes, maybe to make them equal to regular income. Nothing is fleshed out anyway, I think)

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  361. Well, it’s not just the hypocrisy, felipe, but the subject was that it is estimated that Trump has already spent 278.5 years of his salary on golf outings, with a lot of expensed to his own businesses. The fact that he accused Obama of playing too much golf on the taxpayers’ dime becomes all the more rich. I don’t see it as a different matter but rather one that is closely related to Trump, money, golf, and yes, hypocrisy.

    Dana (292df6) — 9/6/2020 @ 12:36 pm

    Something about this really captures Trump’s strategy. He thrives on the frustration of his critics, often pointing to their anger as why complaints about him aren’t credible. And he really enjoys that kind of fight. Many Trump supporters see Trump’s hypocrisy as a mirror of the democrats being hypocrites. Trump’s just highlighting it, forcing the issue out in the open.

    But to me, Trump demanding a birth certificate, then breaking his promise to show us his tax returns, bashing Obama for making a campaign phone call form AF1, then having a whole convention at the White House, the golf issue, it’s all taking what the democrats did and then doing it so much worse that we’re left with no real accountability.

    Imagine Biden wins. Will there be any ethical violation the GOP can really touch him on? He could demand Hunter get backpay from Burisma while taping a Chevy commercial from the resolute desk.

    And if anybody tries to do this stuff the ‘right way’, they will get .000001% of the vote because they don’t ‘fight’.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  362. BnP @369-
    Sounds like Rip is a hair plugs guy.
    No, I’m not vain. I don’t waste my time or money on something that’s going to happen anyway. But I’m looking forward to SNL’s season 46.

    Rip Murdock (ac5491)

  363. #359 — so tell me why I “feel” the way I do — as distinct from thinking the way I do.

    I can only explain my understanding of why you feel, from you telling me what you feel.
    “as distinct from thinking the way I do” Good, because I am not a mind reader.

    The reason why I think I understand the way you feel, is because the tone I subjectively perceive in your comments exhibit a correlation to feelings expressed by like-minded commenters. I will not name names to spare myself from endless requests for clarifications.

    An apt question for you to ask me is “what do you think I feel?” I think you feel like Trump, himself, has admitted to the world all his misdeeds in the most brazen and remorseless way, and that you are not just justified in your response, but you are obligated to respond to Trump’s actions as well as reprove them. Why” because it is right to do so.

    Am I wrong?

    How do I know the way you feel? I don’t, and I will never claim to know the unknowable.

    felipe (023cc9)

  364. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/05/opinion/sunday/covid-19-trump.html

    Russ Douthat doesn;t answer this, except to compare the United States to what are somewhat similarly situated countries, and find the record, to be mediocre (or average)

    ….Of the five most populous countries in Western Europe, only Germany has been a great success, with less than one-fifth our coronavirus death rate. Three of the remaining five, Spain and Italy and the United Kingdom, have higher death rates than the U.S., and the fourth, France, isn’t that far below.

    Likewise with the five largest countries in Latin America, where only Argentina stands out as a clear success, while Brazil and Peru have worse death rates than ours, Mexico is just below us and Colombia a little further down. [And Mexico has enormously bad statistics – SF]

    Overall, once you observe the general pattern where the Western Hemisphere and Western Europe have been particularly hard hit, it’s hard to distinguish the big countries run by centrists or socialists from the country run by Donald Trump. And the same is true if you look at overall excess death statistics (the number of deaths above normal levels), which fewer countries keep, but which are probably a more accurate measure than a Covid-19-specific count. Again, Germany looks great, but Britain, Spain and Italy all have worse numbers than the United States.

    One obvious rejoinder is that many of these countries were hit harder than the U.S. at the outset, when we all were ill prepared, but Trump’s blundering helped give the U.S. its summertime wave, which our peer countries have avoided. But actually both Spain and France have seen late-summer infection waves that have brought them above or close to our infection rate. (We also don’t know where herd immunity lies, and whether some initially hard-hit countries that haven’t seen a summer spike have already reached it: It’s notable that Sweden, which famously never tried a complete lockdown, has seen its rate of daily deaths collapse.)

    And the effects of some specific Trumpian follies, like his palpable contempt for masking, are hard to discern in the data at all: The U.S. has rates of mask usage that fall, like our death rates, right in the middle of the pack for our peer nations.

    Oe explanation cld be that many of the touted preventative measures aren;t key. One thing that keeps the rate down, but on;y so long as that continues, is rapid testing and insolaton of contagious cases.

    But so much is wrong wit the public health advice. Cleaning isn’t necessary. Six feet is not enough. (the tw errors complement each other)

    The total dose of virus matters a great deal. Half the population is virtually immune from previous infection by the cowpox versions of this disease. Children under 10 or so don’t get sick, because their immune system handles novel diseases very well, but might have an overstimulated immune system, which also happens with people with serious infections, and therefore steroids save lives in the worst hospitalized cases. Ventilators killed people.

    Ventilation and sunlight is key – meaning closing parks and beaches was virtually complete nonsense. If people are allowed indoors anywhere, for any reason maybe much of the gain is avoiding crowds s lost.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  365. Selfless sacrifice is the best kind of sacrifice. Selfish sacrifice is bargain basement, it’ll fall apart after a few uses. You’re better off to save up and get the selfless.

    nk (1d9030)

  366. Dustin and Kevin M corrected me in the past week or two.

    (The following are not their exact words)

    Dustin, when I said that the virus was harder to contain than SARS and MERS possibly because it virus was less deadly, said that to an individual it was less deadly, but because everyone gets infected it kills more people than SARS or MERS and so is more deadly.

    Sammy, I think we were both right. In one way, COVID is less deadly. I’d rather catch COVID than most other illnesses. On the other hand, COVID is killing a lot of people. it’s like eating too many Big Macs were Driving While on Heroin. The former is deadlier, but the latter is also deadlier.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  367. eating to many big macs *vs.* DWH

    Dustin (825e2c)

  368. Anybody who has seen an unflushed toilet will easily understand how I feel about Trump.

    nk (1d9030)

  369. Radegunda (e1ea47) — 9/6/2020 @ 12:40 pm

    I took a great deal of time thinking about your question. But I am satisfied that I was not wrong in my comment, from reading your comment. I was right to condole with you.

    felipe (023cc9)

  370. nk (1d9030) — 9/6/2020 @ 1:19 pm

    LOL! I don’t care where you’re from, that right there, is funny!

    felipe (023cc9)

  371. Statistics from a Wall Street Journal story o Thursday:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/hows-the-coronavirus-economy-great-or-awful-depending-on-whom-you-ask-11599039003

    Elizabeth Ananat, an economics professor at Barnard College, has been surveying about 1,000 Philadelphia-area service workers throughout the pandemic. Just 44% of those laid off got expanded unemployment benefits.

    About 40% of service workers in the Philadelphia area were laid off (caveat: some were rehired)

    87% applied for unemployment benefits.

    6%% of those who applied got it (it could be denied for instance if they held a second job that paid too much, or they hadn’t been working long enough)

    Only 77% of those who got the benefits, also got the $600.

    So only 44% of those laid off got the $600. (My calculator gives 37.8885%)

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  372. Driving while on heroin probably makes the driving somewhat safer. At least when not in withdrawal.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  373. #382 – sorry, I didn’t mean to accuse you of purporting to mind-read. I think you’re pretty reasonable.

    What really bothers me most about the Trump era is not so much Trump himself, or the totally undeserved hero-worship he gets. It’s that he has made enemies of longtime friends and allies.

    How did we lose our way? It’s hard to remember all the things that we shared.

    Of course the Trump defenders say the “Never Trumpers” never give him a break. I don’t say that he never does anything right, but when he does, he’ll pretty quickly do something absurd or appalling that will be excused by the defenders. And I wonder: Is there nothing they won’t try to explain away? Can anything be excused – long as it’s Trump doing it?

    It was never meant to be this way
    .

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  374. Like they say in some country, the pitcher goes to the well many times, it only breaks once. 2016 was our once.

    nk (1d9030)

  375. No, no, no. What are they thinking? You cannot take a week to count ballots in Michigan. It just can’t happen. These states have to get their act together. Michigan officials have to get it done.

    If they have to hire a thousand college kids to get it done, then do it.

    noel (9fead1)

  376. He thrives on the frustration of his critics, often pointing to their anger as why complaints about him aren’t credible. And he really enjoys that kind of fight. Many Trump supporters see Trump’s hypocrisy as a mirror of the democrats being hypocrites. Trump’s just highlighting it, forcing the issue out in the open.

    But to me, Trump demanding a birth certificate, then breaking his promise to show us his tax returns, bashing Obama for making a campaign phone call form AF1, then having a whole convention at the White House, the golf issue, it’s all taking what the democrats did and then doing it so much worse that we’re left with no real accountability.

    Maybe all of this, but I can’t help but suspect that it’s performative art for him, this provoking for a reaction that he can use against his critics and then look at his supporters and say, “See, I am the victim.” Somehow that has to factor in because being perceived as a victim by his loyal followers is key to his success and fight to clean out the swamp. I think he’s keenly aware of how to use a particular situation to intentionally cause a reaction and then use it to his advantage.

    Dana (292df6)

  377. Btw I recognize my tweet is to the same article linked in the post, but somehow it seems like a lot of the readers here didn’t read the article linked in the post.

    If those links didn’t convince you try this one:

    https://thedispatch.com/p/what-the-cdc-means-by-describing

    Patterico (115b1f)

  378. Also here.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  379. R.I.P. Lou Brock

    Icy (6abb50)

  380. “The Natural History Museum [UK] will become the latest institution to review it’s collections after an audit warned its Charles Darwin exhibitions could be seen as “offensive”.

    An internal review, sanctioned in the wake of the Black Lives Matter protests, has led to an audit into some rooms, statues, and collected items that could potentially cause offence.

    It warns that collections which some may find “problematic” could include specimens gathered by Darwin, whose voyage to the Galapagos Island on HMS Beagle was cited by a curator as one of Britain’s many “colonialist scientific expeditions”.

    Museum bosses are now desperately seeking to address what some staff believe are “legacies of colonies, slavery and empire” by potentially renaming, relabelling, or removing these traces in the institution.

    The executive board told staff in documents seen by The Sunday Telegraph that “in light of Black Lives Matter and the recent anti-racist demonstrations around the world” the museum would undertake a review of existing room names and “whether any statues (or collections) or could potentially cause offence”.

    One of the institution’s directors said in internal documents that new action taken to address these issues would alter “the use and display of our collections and public spaces”.

    An example of the new thinking to address perceived imperial connections to science was a paper penned by a curator and shared with staff, which claimed “science, racism, and colonial power were inherently entwined”.

    The work further argues that “museums were put in place to legitimise a racist ideology”, that “covert racism exists in the gaps between the displays”, and as a result collections need to be decolonised.“

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/05/natural-history-museum-review-potentially-offensive-charles/
    _

    lol
    _

    harkin (c314b6)

  381. Thank you for the links, Patterico, but often people who believe in right and wrong want simplicity when faced with big issues. I think today’s Republicans believe there are clear answers to big problems and/or those are the times we need leaders who make clear decisions, even if they aren’t perfect or even close.

    DRJ (aede82)

  382. About the Covid death numbers clarified: Yesterday I had a long conversation with an individual who has a background in electrical engineering and biology as well as having taught mathematics. It was especially frustrating for me because, when discussing several reports at STAT and CNN, as well as other mainstream outlets that laid out the reasons for the numbers being incorrectly represented and what they really were, the first thing the individual did was to either dismiss it out of hand because MSM, or research who owned the media outlets and then point out that they could not be trusted because they were owned by staunch liberals. Obviously this individual is a big Trump supporter, and it was shocking to see how easily the science – which has been his life blood and career for decades- was superseded by loyalty to Trump. A scientist. Anyway, I sent him the report at The Dispatch, and have heard nothing in response.

    Dana (292df6)

  383. Massive Trump boat parade in San Diego. Parade of airplanes in the skies as well. When was the last time you saw similar enthusiasm for Hidin’ Biden?

    When he quit his ’88 presidential run, of course.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  384. Gawain’s Ghost,

    I loved your story about your father taking the family on a race ride!

    You really should get your writing published.

    norcal (a5428a)

  385. @397 It’s good to see you popping in. You hadn’t appeared in so long that I was wondering if it was time for somebody to do an Icy on Icy!

    norcal (a5428a)

  386. 401.

    Massive Trump boat parade in San Diego. Parade of airplanes in the skies as well. When was the last time you saw similar enthusiasm for Hidin’ Biden?

    You know who drove his supporters to paroxysms of ecstasy? George Wallace.

    You know who didn’t? Eisenhower.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  387. hiden biden voters
    can’t afford soap
    let alone a boat

    mg (8cbc69)

  388. Massive Trump boat parade in San Diego. Parade of airplanes in the skies as well. When was the last time you saw similar enthusiasm for Hidin’ Biden?

    Trump has California sewn up for sure.

    nk (1d9030)

  389. Cantafordya voters take pride in being part of the non important popular vote victory in the pantsuit darlings loss.

    mg (8cbc69)

  390. I went to a massive Trump supporter rally, myself. Tons of Trump supporters but not very many.

    nk (1d9030)

  391. Given a choice between supporting our troops and veterans, or supporting Trump, Nikki Haley chooses Trump.

    Dave (1bb933)

  392. Parade of airplanes

    LOL it’s like a Simpson’s episode, parade of learjets for Mr. Burns. Is it possible Biden’s team is doing this? Yachts at the bottom of Lake Travis, helicopters, limos and ponies. Come on.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  393. Interesting!

    The Atlantic’s editor-in-chief says his story about Trump calling vets ‘losers’ is just the beginning

    On Sunday, Trump fired back at The Atlantic, directly attacking its majority owner, Laurene Powell Jobs.

    “Steve Jobs would not be happy that his wife is wasting money he left her on a failing Radical Left Magazine that is run by a con man (Goldberg) and spews FAKE NEWS & HATE,” Trump tweeted. “Call her, write her, let her know how you feel!!!”

    You know, it’s obvious to me that when Trump’s Communist-born and raised Slovenian “private pro” said this kind of anti-Trump reporting was dangerous, she didn’t mean dangerous to Trump or to the public. She meant to the reporters and publishers.

    nk (1d9030)

  394. Biden supporters are trashing businesses and destroying statues which fauci and ferguson and murray with (if you are not against something, you are for it)

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  395. Hiden Biden has his antifa and never trumpers to carry him through the fog.

    mg (8cbc69)

  396. BTW, Laurene Powell Jobs is the 6th richest woman in the world, DCSCA.

    nk (1d9030)

  397. LOL it’s like a Simpson’s episode, parade of learjets for Mr. Burns. Is it possible Biden’s team is doing this? Yachts at the bottom of Lake Travis, helicopters, limos and ponies. Come on.

    Low ratings.

    Dave (1bb933)

  398. Yes and feeding the dragon, is the way she stays that way.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  399. Not only is old lady Jobs losing her azz in the Atlantic magazine she has had to cut multiple millions to finish Kona Village on the Big Island. Cheaper plastic materials made in China to continue as well as craftsmen taking pay cuts.

    mg (8cbc69)

  400. She is a pain in the azz on the Big Island. You’d adore her,nk.

    mg (8cbc69)

  401. Hiden Biden has his antifa and never trumpers to carry him through the fog.

    mg (8cbc69) — 9/6/2020 @ 6:53 pm

    It’s crazies screeching death to america and burning down Target versus a parade of rich people in their airplanes.

    This is a cartoon.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  402. Hey mr mg! How are you?

    Hey, I have a quick tip for you in case you fly back to California and have to speak a little Spanish. If you’re talking about the power crisis, always use the verb form “Estar”, it’s considered conditional.

    Pinandpuller (87de5b)

  403. Hi mr nk, how are you?

    The nearest I can figure, all the richest women of the world made their money thru death or divorce. Am I wrong?

    Pinandpuller (87de5b)

  404. Well the witch sally quinn, katherine graham, cristina kirschner,

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  405. Hi mr lurker. I recently learned a word that mr nk probably knows already, but it seems applicable to your point: Harpazo.

    Pinandpuller (87de5b)

  406. Living the dream, Pinandpuller
    and you? No plans to visit Cantafordya. I do the Vegas-Kona hook-up.

    mg (8cbc69)

  407. Yeah, she still has 14 years, four bankruptcies, and two marriages to go before she can run for President.

    nk (1d9030)

  408. Hi, Pinandpuller. My 427 above wasn’t for you, we cross-posted. I’m the same, how are you?

    nk (1d9030)

  409. Harpazo. Heh! Don’t nobody tell the fundamentalists that harpies and rapture have the same root in Greek: To snatch.

    nk (1d9030)

  410. @404.ROFLMAOPIP. Ike vs. Yikes:

    Eisenhower left office after two terms at age 71.
    Hidin’ Biden would begin his first term at age 78.

    Eisenhower died at age 79.
    Plagiarist JoeyBee will be 78 years old in November.

    “Bring out your dead! Bring out your dead!” – ‘ The Dead Collector [Eric Idle], ‘Monty Python And The Holy Grail’ 1975

    .

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  411. @411. Ahhhhhhh, sweet Nikki…. Spacceeee Forceeeeeee!

    Poor Joe; Boeing beats Beau-ing every time.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  412. I enjoy a lot of writing at The Atlantic. They publish a wide range of writers who don’t all push the company line. Of course there was the Kevin Williamson Fiasco, which didn’t help their efforts at being open to right leaning writers, but still there are good writers showcased at the outlet. I don’t see why , Laurene Powell Job is different than any other share holder in a big media outfit. Some writers published at the joint: Caitlin Flanagan, Coleman Hughes, Glen Loury , Yascha Mount, Graeme Wood, etc.

    Dana (292df6)

  413. @397 It’s good to see you popping in. You hadn’t appeared in so long that I was wondering if it was time for somebody to do an Icy on Icy!
    norcal (a5428a) — 9/6/2020 @ 5:31 pm

    — Thanks! Unfortunately, the COVID hit my workplace pretty hard (including one death😪) so I haven’t felt much like posting obituaries lately. Had to acknowledge Sweet Lou, though.

    Icy (6abb50)

  414. @433 Sorry to hear about your workplace death. Were there underlying conditions?

    norcal (a5428a)

  415. I hope you’re well Icy, sorry about the rough time this year

    Dustin (825e2c)

  416. Don’t forget John McWhorter, Dana. His recent piece on the fear of cancel culture among college professors is a must read.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/academics-are-really-really-worried-about-their-freedom/615724/

    I wonder if Dave has read it, and if it lessens his enthusiasm for the side of the aisle that tends to support this stifling culture. Maybe not, since he’s in the sciences.

    norcal (a5428a)

  417. Trump is the only POTUS, ever, to selflessly sacrifice his salary, all of it.

    Sammy addressed the “only” part. From what I’ve seen, Trump returned his salary back to the federal government, to one department or another, not to any charity.

    Paul Montagu (3bc3ff)

  418. Ah, yes, McWhorter too. Good stuff.

    Dana (292df6)

  419. Pay $105 million to my resorts for my golf trips, and I’ll gladly give you back $450,000.

    nk (1d9030)

  420. 439. I doubt he’s glad about it. As his now shuttered foundation’s history of petty self-dealing shows, there’s no amount too small for him to grift if he thinks he can get away with it.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  421. 432. If centrist libertarianism is to your taste, Conor Friedersdorf is quite good too.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  422. 439. I doubt he’s glad about it. As his now shuttered foundation’s history of petty self-dealing shows, there’s no amount too small for him to grift if he thinks he can get away with it.

    True. If he ever shoots anybody on Fifth Avenue, it will be because they both saw a penny on the sidewalk at the same time.

    nk (1d9030)

  423. huh/2020

    mg (8cbc69)

  424. 395. I was about to link to that article.

    Saying that of deaths were really from Covid is a distortion of what the CDC said. Trump didn’t come up with it – whoever is behind QAnon, or maybe someone he, it, or they use, came up with that – but Trump is happy to use whatever he sees that he likes, without even caring if it is really true, or even whether it came from one of his political consultants or not.

    In this case, because it seems to say almost nobody is in any danger from the coronavirus.

    Which is, actually, interestingly enough, almost true! (the limited number of people in true danger, that is.)

    But some 20% of those infected get seriously sick, and some 5% could get hospitalized, and some 2-3% get long term complications (they’re called “long haulers”) and some 1% die. Heavily skewed toward people over 70, or even over 80 or 85.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  425. 393. noel (9fead1) — 9/6/2020 @ 3:01 pm

    No, no, no. What are they thinking? You cannot take a week to count ballots in Michigan. It just can’t happen. These states have to get their act together. Michigan officials have to get it done.

    If they have to hire a thousand college kids to get it done, then do it.

    It really has to take aweek, although I am sure they could improve the system, some with a change in state law (whch is not coming) and some without it.

    The basic problem is that they have to log in the voter, and make sure no voter gets logged in twice, while limiting the possibility of being left out.

    They can;t use any old college kids because it’s invariably a rule that at least two people have to approve a ballot, or sign someone in, and they must be from both major political parties.

    When someone votes in person, either on Election Day or earlier, the whole process of logging someone in (and removing the possibility of voting another time) is done on the scene, and takes about a minute. Any issues re taken care of before a person is allowed to vote – although sometimes they can get a bad ballot, or spoil it and have to come back. The advantage of that is that when someone uses that system, they know the logging in is done successfully.

    When a mail in ballot is processed, it is possible for the voter to flub it – for example, not sign in, or friet to include the ballot, or send the package in too late. If it is possible also to vote in person (not the case in some states like Washington and Oregon where by mail is the on; way to vote) they usually want to leave a person with the option of voting in person even after they’ve been mailed an absentee ballot.

    The in-person vote, if cast, takes priority, because it is secret, so they either have to check the ballot against the list of people who voted on Election Day, or the arrival of the mail in ballot has to remove the possibility of voting in person. (Trump’s claiming the latter can’t or won’t done successfully in North Carolina.)

    They wo;t remove any person from the voting list of the ballot is not successfully signed in.

    Early voting invariably ends no later than two days before Election Day, (the Sunday before the Tuesday that is Election Day) so the voter list can be updated to remove any people who voted early at some other site.

    Mail ballots, especially when they can arrive after Election Day need to wait until after all votes have been cast in person, although they can accept some that come in early and remove a person from the voting list while pausing the processing of others on or around Election Day.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  426. @400: About the Covid death numbers clarified: Yesterday I had a long conversation with an individual who has a background in electrical engineering and biology as well as having taught mathematics. It was especially frustrating for me because, when discussing several reports at STAT and CNN, as well as other mainstream outlets that laid out the reasons for the numbers being incorrectly represented and what they really were…

    There is no such thing as “what they really were” when it comes to scientific data. Data can be massaged, tweaked and interpreted to reach a conclusion that is 180 degrees from a conclusion someone else would reach with the exact same data, particularly in this case when there is no single meaning for the term “cause of death” that everyone agrees on.

    Maybe your EE/biologist/mathematician friend knew this from his experience.

    beer ‘n pretzels (47187c)

  427. San Francisco gym owners livid after discovering gyms in government buildings have been opened for months

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/san-francisco-gym-owners-livid-after-discovering-gyms-in-government-buildings-have-been-opened-for-months
    _

    harkin (cd4502)

  428. What Young, Healthy People Have to Fear From COVID-19
    A new philosophy of COVID-19 is circulating through the Republican Party and conservative media. If you look closely, you might notice that it resembles an early philosophy of COVID-19 that circulated through the Republican Party and conservative media: If young people get this disease, it won’t be so bad—and it might even be good.
    ………
    “It doesn’t matter if younger, healthier people get infected,” (Scott Atlas, a neuroradiologist and senior fellow at Stanford University’s conservative Hoover Institution) said in a July interview with San Diego’s KUSI news station. “I don’t know how often that has to be said. They have nearly zero risk of a problem from this … When younger, healthier people get infected, that’s a good thing.”
    ……….
    COVID-19 presents an array of health challenges that are serious, if not imminently fatal. The disease occasionally sends people’s immune system into a frenzy, wreaking havoc on their internal organs. Several studies of asymptomatic patients revealed that more than half of them had lung abnormalities. A March study published in the Journal of the American Heart Association found that 7 to 20 percent of sick patients showed heart damage associated with COVID-19.

    …….. [M]any COVID-19 patients experience protracted illness. These “long-haulers” suffer from a diabolical grab bag of symptoms, including chronic fatigue, shortness of breath, unrelenting fevers, gastrointestinal problems, lost sense of smell, hallucinations, short-term-memory loss, bulging veins, bruising, gynecological problems, and an erratic heartbeat. And according to the neuroscientist David Putrino, chronic patients are typically young (the average age in his survey is 44), female, and formerly healthy.

    For men in their 30s,……about 1.2 percent of COVID-19 infections result in hospitalization, according to a July study published in Science. Once the disease has progressed to this point, the risk of chronic illness soars. Research from Italy found that roughly nine in 10 hospitalized patients said they still had symptoms after two months. A British study reported a similar risk of long-term illness.
    ………..
    More frightening than what we’re learning now is what we cannot yet know: the truly long-term—as in, decades-long—implications of this disease for the body. “We know that hepatitis C leads to liver cancer, we know that human papillomavirus leads to cervical cancer, we know that HIV leads to certain cancers,” Howard Forman, a health-policy professor at Yale, told James Hamblin and Katherine Wells of The Atlantic. “We have no idea whether having had this infection means that, 10 years from now, you have an elevated risk of lymphoma.”‪
    ……….
    Trying to achieve herd immunity (which is Atlas’s goal) is really playing Russian roulette with long term health of a formerly healthy population.

    Rip Murdock (b2603f)

  429. @393. noel-

    No, no, no. What are they thinking? You cannot take a week to count ballots in Michigan. It just can’t happen. These states have to get their act together. Michigan officials have to get it done.
    County registrars in California have until Nov. 20 to finish counting mail-in ballots.

    Rip Murdock (b2603f)

  430. The philosophy of COVID by the Democrats is:

    ‘this is truly frightening and everything must stop, except protests, riots & looting. White people and capitalism are worse than any virus.’
    _

    harkin (cd4502)

  431. Only Hog Tussle believes that, harkin, and it is ironic that the rubes think that they can gaslight the city slickers about their very own day to day experiences.

    nk (1d9030)

  432. I’ll tell you though, I kind of wished it were true yesterday when the Mexican restaurant half a block down the street was serenading me with me disco mariachi, through the (brick) walls of my house, until 10:00 p.m..

    nk (1d9030)

  433. I got 4, then they stopped drafting people. Biden’s claim of being asthmatic, despite being a football star is only marginally better than Trump’s outright lie. I don’t see this an issue with much useful traction.

    Guess that means you’re only qualified to be Secretary of State. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  434. “ It’s no wonder that one of Joe Biden’s largest campaign contributors, billionaire Laurene Jobs of the Apple fortune, who owns most of The Atlantic, had the former Obama Administration megaphone Jeffrey Goldberg exhume a two-year-old and long-ago-refuted charge that President Trump did not wish to visit a U.S. military cemetery in France because he variously was afraid of the rain, that he would get his hair wet, and that he did not wish to celebrate “losers” and “suckers.”

    All this was from a left-wing media that not long ago damned a “militaristic” Trump for being infatuated with generals, and putting far too many in his White House, while needlessly spending billions on manpower and equipment to repair a military hollowed out by the Obama Administration.”

    https://amgreatness.com/2020/09/06/desperately-derailing-donald/
    _

    harkin (cd4502)

  435. 448. Rip Murdock (b2603f) — 9/7/2020 @ 8:50 am

    Trying to achieve herd immunity (which is Atlas’s goal) is really playing Russian roulette with long term health of a formerly healthy population.

    Scott Atlas says he wasn’t advocating that.

    https://top.st/us/news/68703294

    ‘I have never advised the president to push a herd immunity strategy.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-covid-adviser-gets-a-washington-welcome-11599247413

    …Dr. Atlas is particularly incensed about the newspapers’ claims that he is pushing for a policy of herd immunity, a phrase both newspapers deploy in scare quotes. “They’ve published an overt lie,” he says. “I have never said that to the president. I have never said it to the vice president. It’s not an exaggeration, it’s not a distortion, it’s just, frankly, a lie to say that I’ve done that.”

    Herd immunity is “a phenomenon,” he says. “If you don’t understand that, that’s OK, but you’re not fit to be speaking about it.” He offers a quick and indignant tutorial on the subject: “It’s a known immunological phenomenon whereby enough people in a population have immunity to an infection, and so, by virtue of that, you break the chain of contagiousness toward the vulnerable.” Herd immunity—or “population immunity,” as he also calls it—is “the basis for giving widespread immunization. If you don’t believe in herd immunity, you don’t believe in why immunizations are given.”

    All this, Dr. Atlas says, is “widely known and accepted by anyone who understands anything about infectious disease or immunology.” But he insists there is no advocacy on his part. “What they’re trying to say,” he says of the hostile reporters, “is that I’m advocating throwing the barn doors open—just let everyone get infected, and whoever dies, dies. This is a preposterous lie.”

    Dr. Atlas says that “population immunity probably exists” in New York City. “I said this back in March or April to my wife,” he recalls. “I said the irony is that New York is going to be the first place to be safe because so many people have had the infection that it took a massive toll.” Herd immunity is “highly likely” to be why New York has relatively few new cases, “even though thousands of people have been out protesting intermittently, no distancing or anything.”

    None of this, he says, “should either be controversial, or a surprise to any critical-thinking medical scientist.” He notes that this is “very different from advocating herd immunity. I’m observing that it happens, and that’s just not controversial.”

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  436. Trump Boat Parade On St. Croix River Causes Capsizing
    A boat parade in support of President Donald Trump Saturday on the St. Croix River left more than one homeowner contending with property damage.

    Keith Smith lives on the river in River Falls, Wisconsin.

    “The river was flooded with boats,” Smith said. “Big boats, small boats, all kinds of boats.”
    ………
    “Boaters all know they’re responsible for their waves, but nobody cared,” Smith said. “They just kept going and going and hooting and hollering. Luckily I didn’t slip and go off the side of the dock.”

    One of Keith’s neighbors wasn’t as fortunate, and did lose his boat.
    ……..
    …….. Both property owners say they have no problem with Trump supporters showing out for their candidate. Their issue is with the disregard for boating laws and etiquette.

    “It’s not anything political,” Smith said. “Boaters know the laws and the rules, and I don’t understand why they wouldn’t follow them and help their fellow boater.”
    ……..
    Man overboard!

    Rip Murdock (b2603f)

  437. @455-
    If it walks like a duck……

    Rip Murdock (b2603f)

  438. Sure, Frum is defending his colleague, but he’s not wrong.

    Trump’s protestations have been seconded by his wife. The first lady’s endorsement of Trump’s pro-military credentials has been repeated by Trump Cabinet secretaries, as well as by Fox News talking heads, and by a recipient of a Trump pardon.
    Amid the clamor, it’s easy to overlook those who are not yelling, those who are keeping silent. Where are the senior officers of the United States armed forces, serving and retired—the men and women who worked most closely on military affairs with President Trump? Has any one of them stepped forward to say, “That’s not the man I know”?
    How many wounded warriors have stepped forward to attest to Trump’s care and concern for them? How many Gold Star families have stepped forward on Trump’s behalf? How many service families?
    The silence is resounding. And when such voices do speak, they typically describe a president utterly lacking in empathy to grieving families, wholly uncomprehending of sacrifice and suffering.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  439. I’m guessing Mike Flynn will wax poetic about Trump’s undying respect and admiration for the military.

    Just as soon as he gets his pardon.

    Dave (1bb933)

  440. No, The Government Did Not Break Up A Child Sex Trafficking Ring In Georgia
    ………
    “U.S. Marshals Find 39 Missing Children in Georgia During ‘Operation Not Forgotten,’” proclaimed the government’s official press release. Federal agents and local law enforcement, it said, had rescued 26 children, “safely located” 13 more and arrested nine perpetrators, some of whom were charged with sex trafficking.
    ………
    “ This was not a designated anti-trafficking operation,” Darby Kirby, a U.S. Marshals Service inspector involved with the operation, told HuffPost. Operation Not Forgotten, the name law enforcement gave the recovery effort, was a collaboration between state and federal authorities to locate 78 “critically missing” children. That term means they could be at risk for trafficking, but they could also be at risk of parental abuse or have medical conditions that make their recovery more urgent.

    The operation was a success. Authorities found all but 13 of the 78 missing children. Of the 65 they located, 39 were “recovered,” meaning they were removed from whatever situation they were in — which could be anything from living on the streets to crashing on a friend’s couch to staying with a parent who didn’t have custody rights. The other 26 cases were closed without the child being “recovered.” Albright said this could mean that another agency, such as Child Protective Services, found them — or that they had been home all along.

    State authorities said they suspected that 15 of the 78 children were victims of trafficking (meaning they were engaging in commercial sex) but confirmed only six cases. ……..

    The operation netted only one new charge of sex trafficking against a perpetrator. Of the seven men and two women arrested, three were charged with probation violations, one was charged with unlawful possession of a firearm and two were accused of violating custody arrangements. One person was arrested on a warrant for a previous sex trafficking charge, and two more were arrested on warrants for sex crimes in other states.

    Federal agents did not rescue a large number of children from a single location — or even a single jurisdiction. …….

    In other words, the “sex trafficking sting” described in headlines and social media posts was neither a sex trafficking operation nor a sting………
    ………
    It also turns out two of the children were arrested for homicide and another seven had arrest warrants. Another fake news story regurgitated by the media without checking the facts.

    Rip Murdock (b2603f)

  441. No, The Government Did Not Break Up A Child Sex Trafficking Ring In Georgia

    This sex trafficking ring Sounds like something QAnon could have said – at least if they’d also said Democrats were runnnnning the sex trafficking ring.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  442. It wasn’t enough that Lukashenko’s opponent “lost” to him in the most recent “election”, he had to disappear her.

    The Belarusian opposition accused the nation’s authorities of “terror” after Maria Kolesnikova, a vocal critic of President Alexander Lukashenko, was abducted in downtown Minsk on Monday morning.

    Trump has said nothing critical of Putin’s assassination attempt on Navalny, and I expect he’ll say nothing critical of Lukashenko and the abduction of his chief political rival.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  443. The person who lost to Lukashenko, Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya (a woman who ran in place of her husband, Sergei Tikhanovsky, who was arrested on May 29, 2020) is in Lithuania.

    She had been by the campaigns of Valery Tsepkalo and Viktar Babaryka, two prominent opposition politicians who were barred from registering, with one being arrested and the other fleeing the country.

    The demonstrations are being co-ordinated out of Warsaw, Poland via Telegram, a service that has not been completely blocked in Belarus.

    One of the people involved says that had he claimed victory with 52% of the vote, they might have accepted it (believed it?) and waited for next time, but he had to claim 80%. It was more like 80% for his opponent. Lukashenko is now being called “Sasha 3%” on the basis that they believed that he was only supported by three percent of the Belarusian population.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  444. * She had been ENDORSED.

    It was a united opposition.

    I don’t know when these dictators will learn that it is better not to hold an election than to blatantly steal one. He could have made himself Czar. (or something stops that?)

    Now the United Arab Emirates is different.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  445. The person who lost to Lukashenko, Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya (a woman who ran in place of her husband, Sergei Tikhanovsky, who was arrested on May 29, 2020) is in Lithuania.

    She fled to Lithuania shortly after Lukashenko was declared the winner, Sammy, but her being taken by “masked men” just happened. Maybe the Belurusian Deep State did it.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  446. Trump has said nothing critical of Putin’s assassination attempt on Navalny, and I expect he’ll say nothing critical of Lukashenko and the abduction of his chief political rival.
    Mostly because he’s jealous they can get away with it.

    Rip Murdock (b2603f)

  447. Mostly because he’s jealous they can get away with it.

    the night is young

    We’ll get there if we don’t check ourselves

    Dustin (825e2c)

  448. @467-
    We’ve already seen a dry run in Portland.

    Rip Murdock (b2603f)

  449. I dunno, we might not need to worry all that much about Trump being able to pull off a military coup when he loses the election:

    “I’m not saying the military’s in love with me — the soldiers are, the top people in the Pentagon probably aren’t because they want to do nothing but fight wars so that all of those wonderful companies that make the bombs and make the planes and make everything else stay happy,” Trump told reporters at a White House news conference.
    Trump’s extraordinary comments come as several defense officials tell CNN relations between the President and Pentagon leadership are becoming increasingly strained.

    nk (1d9030)

  450. 469. ‘I dunno, we might not need to worry all that much about Trump being able to pull off a military coup when he loses the election…’

    Reagan Righties will insist this is what happens when you’ve got too much fluoride and not enough lead in your drinking water.

    “An actor? As President”- Derek Flint [James Coburn] ‘In Like Flint’ 1967

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  451. @469-
    I’m not saying the military’s in love with me — the soldiers are…….

    Apparently he hasn’t read this:

    ……[B]ased on 1,018 active-duty troops surveyed in late July and early August — nearly half of respondents (49.9 percent) had an unfavorable view of the president, compared to about 38 percent who had a favorable view. Questions in the poll had a margin of error of up to 2 percent.

    Among all survey participants, 42 percent said they “strongly” disapprove of Trump’s time in office.

    Rip Murdock (b2603f)

  452. Kojak got his protege Crocker back under his wing. RIP Kevin Dobson.

    urbanleftbehind (e317d9)

  453. “O’Bama? You mean they put an Irishman in the White House?” — Captain America after being defrosted in the Marvel Cinematic Universe

    nk (1d9030)

  454. Carry on

    https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/07/atlantic-editor-concedes-central-claim-of-trump-hit-piece-could-be-wrong/

    You know the president ellis, is named after warren ellis who is one strange cat

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  455. This is for Gryph:

    We estimate that over 250,000 of the reported cases between August 2 and September 2 are due to the Sturgis Rally. Roughly 19 percent of the national cases during this timeframe.

    Dana (292df6)

  456. Onw of the things being done wrong is that all positive tests are being treated as equal.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html

    The standard tests are diagnosing huge numbers of people who may be carrying relatively insignificant amounts of the virus.

    Most of these people are not likely to be contagious, and identifying them may contribute to bottlenecks that prevent those who are contagious from being found in time. But researchers say the solution is not to test less, or to skip testing people without symptoms, as recently suggested by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. [but to use a different, less sensitive and more rapid test] …

    …Any test with a cycle threshold above 35 is too sensitive, agreed Juliet Morrison, a virologist at the University of California, Riverside. “I’m shocked that people would think that 40 could represent a positive,” she said.

    A more reasonable cutoff would be 30 to 35, she added. Dr. Mina said he would set the figure at 30, or even less. Those changes would mean the amount of genetic material in a patient’s sample would have to be 100-fold to 1,000-fold that of the current standard for the test to return a positive result — at least, one worth acting on.

    …The C.D.C.’s own calculations suggest that it is extremely difficult to detect any live virus in a sample above a threshold of 33 cycles. Officials at some state labs said the C.D.C. had not asked them to note threshold values or to share them with contact-tracing organizations.

    Only political intervention could get rid of this nonsense, but political intervention probably won;t happen.

    In Massachusetts, from 85 to 90 percent of people who tested positive in July with a cycle threshold of 40 would have been deemed negative if the threshold were 30 cycles, Dr. Mina said. “I would say that none of those people should be contact-traced, not one,” he said.

    Other experts informed of these numbers were stunned.

    “I’m really shocked that it could be that high — the proportion of people with high C.T. value results,” said Dr. Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute. “Boy, does it really change the way we need to be thinking about testing.”

    Dr. Jha said he had thought of the PCR test as a problem because it cannot scale to the volume, frequency or speed of tests needed. “But what I am realizing is that a really substantial part of the problem is that we’re not even testing the people who we need to be testing,” he said.

    The number of people with positive results who aren’t infectious is particularly concerning, said Scott Becker, executive director of the Association of Public Health Laboratories. “That worries me a lot, just because it’s so high,” he said, adding that the organization intended to meet with Dr. Mina to discuss the issue.

    The F.D.A. noted that people may have a low viral load when they are newly infected. A test with less sensitivity would miss these infections.

    But that problem is easily solved, Dr. Mina said: “Test them again, six hours later or 15 hours later or whatever,” he said. A rapid test would find these patients quickly, even if it were less sensitive, because their viral loads would quickly rise….

    Just another mistake that’s been going on for months, uncorrected.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  457. Sorry if this is a re-post but apparently the Trump campaign has spent almost a billion dollars so far.

    Times analysis found that the campaign and the party committee had already spent more than $800 million of the $1.1 billion raised over the past 18 months to support President Donald Trump’s reelection bid.

    Supposedly a large amount of the spending is going to Trump family members and Trump owned businesses.

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  458. @433 Sorry to hear about your workplace death. Were there underlying conditions?
    norcal (a5428a) — 9/6/2020 @ 9:06 pm

    — He was just 22, but was obese and had asthma. The COVID proved to be one malady too many.

    Icy (6abb50)

  459. This story about Disney’s collusion with China is important, because Corporate America and our American government need to make a fundamental shift in dealing with Xi and his Chinese Communist Party.

    The most devastating part of “Mulan,” Disney’s much-anticipated live-action remake of the 1998 animated film, isn’t the story. It’s the credits. The film retells the ancient Chinese tale of Hua Mulan, a filial daughter who dresses as a man to join the army, honor her father and save the emperor. While the film engenders pride for China, it does so with a subtle touch: Besides a few mentions of defending the Silk Road, a favorite trading route of Chinese Communist Party leader Xi Jinping, little links it to the modern-day country. The New York Times called it “lightly funny and a little sad, filled with ravishing landscapes.”
    But there’s a dark side to those landscapes. Disney filmed “Mulan” in regions across China (among other locations). In the credits, Disney offers a special thanks to more than a dozen Chinese institutions that helped with the film. These include four Chinese Communist Party propaganda departments in the region of Xinjiang as well as the Public Security Bureau of the city of Turpan in the same region — organizations that are facilitating crimes against humanity. It’s sufficiently astonishing that it bears repeating: Disney has thanked four propaganda departments and a public security bureau in Xinjiang, a region in northwest China that is the site of one of the world’s worst human rights abuses happening today.
    More than a million Muslims in Xinjiang, mostly of the Uighur minority, have been imprisoned in concentration camps. Some have been released. Countless numbers have died. Forced sterilization campaigns have caused the birth rate in Xinjiang to plummet roughly 24 percent in 2019 — and “imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group” fits within the legally recognized definition of genocide. Disney, in other words, worked with regions where genocide is occurring, and thanked government departments that are helping to carry it out.

    In other words, Disney was willing to look the other way on genocide in order to make a sh*t-ton of money on a goddam movie, a movie that I will never watch because of Disney’s coziness with Xi and oppression. I don’t know what rises to the level of genocide when it comes to the number killed, but Xi and his Chinese Communist Party are engaging in a cultural genocide of the Uighers, a part of which includes cleansing their religious faith out of existence.
    At first, I thought Erick Erickson went overboard in going Godwin right off the bat, but he’s not wrong.

    This is akin to Disney filming around Auschwitz prior to the United States’ involvement in World War II and thanking Leni Riefenstahl and Joseph Goebbels and the Office of Public Enlightenment. We weren’t at war at the time, so please ignore the bodies.

    Ten months ago, I said that Americans need to check the tags (http://www.theforvm *dot* org/holiday-season-and-beyond-check-tags), and it’s all the more important today. The United States is better off not doing business with that regime, and the first step toward breaking away is joining the TPP.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  460. Between Hollywood and the NBA, I don’t know which is the bigger whore.

    norcal (a5428a)


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