Patterico's Pontifications

9/3/2020

Trump Thinks Soldiers Who Were Killed or Injured in Battle Are “Losers” or “Suckers”

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 6:35 pm



I mean, we know this from what he said in public about John McCain, in front of God and everybody. Nevertheless, pathetic low-life sycophants who deserve our contempt will try to defend him, because such people always do.

Jeffrey Goldberg in The Atlantic:

When President Donald Trump canceled a visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris in 2018, he blamed rain for the last-minute decision, saying that “the helicopter couldn’t fly” and that the Secret Service wouldn’t drive him there. Neither claim was true.

Trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain, and because he did not believe it important to honor American war dead, according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the discussion that day. In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed.

. . . .

Trump has been, for the duration of his presidency, fixated on staging military parades, but only of a certain sort. In a 2018 White House planning meeting for such an event, Trump asked his staff not to include wounded veterans, on grounds that spectators would feel uncomfortable in the presence of amputees. “Nobody wants to see that,” he said.

The whole thing makes for compelling reading. It rings true; it sounds like things he has said in public; I don’t care what his defenders say about it. He is beneath contempt, and so is each and every person who tries to defend him.

310 Responses to “Trump Thinks Soldiers Who Were Killed or Injured in Battle Are “Losers” or “Suckers””

  1. Yes, including those who try to do so here.

    I thought about closing comments, but hey. Let’s leave them open. Identify yourselves. Go ahead.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. Somebody who gets out of military service because of bonespurs has every right to criticize dead soldiers and POWs.

    norcal (a5428a)

  3. While I find it utterly believable he would say something so horrible, as he has said worse in the past, my policy when it comes to outrageous claims like this is to reserve judgment until there’s better evidence available. It’s very easy to someone to make up these claims, and the public is all too primed to believe them- which is exactly why we should keep our skepticism about us.

    Derek (85cd9e)

  4. The whole thing makes for compelling reading.

    As do The Pentagon Papers.

    Suckers and swindlers at all points of the compass– who knew the truth, knew better and still sent 58,000 to their deaths.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  5. Imagine giving all you had for a country that is led by a brat who calls you a sucker. I was going to relate the story of some of my friends who didn’t make it back from Iraq but they are better than some political ammo to bash a guy who would take their total sacrifice and call them suckers.

    I don’t know what’s happened to this country but it’s not OK.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  6. While I find it utterly believable he would say something so horrible, as he has said worse in the past, my policy when it comes to outrageous claims like this is to reserve judgment until there’s better evidence available. It’s very easy to someone to make up these claims, and the public is all too primed to believe them- which is exactly why we should keep our skepticism about us.

    Derek (85cd9e) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:12 pm

    I wish I was able to be this reserved about Trump but I’m past it.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  7. >I wish I was able to be this reserved about Trump but I’m past it.

    >Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:29 pm

    I can understand that sentiment. I don’t think we should let bias cloud our own standards for judging truth vs untruth.

    That said, even with the benefit of the doubt I often give Trump, in terms of integrity, honor, ability, work ethic, etc., he’s still proven himself over and over again to be the worst president.

    Derek (85cd9e)

  8. @5. don’t know what’s happened to this country but it’s not OK.

    Read The Pentagon Papers.

    It’s easy to forget today how good citizens of yesterday literally spit at vets coming home from Vietnam, Dustin.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  9. To me, the section below sounds even more consistent with Trump (see: Trump and Melania’s marriage) and the entire Trump clan. They don’t understand non-transactional relationships because to them, everything has a price and financial benefit. What’s in it for Trump is what drives the bus. It’s a way of life for him.

    A first lieutenant in the Marine Corps, Robert Kelly was killed in 2010 in Afghanistan. He was 29. Trump was meant, on this visit, to join John Kelly in paying respects at his son’s grave, and to comfort the families of other fallen service members. But according to sources with knowledge of this visit, Trump, while standing by Robert Kelly’s grave, turned directly to his father and said, “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?” Kelly (who declined to comment for this story) initially believed, people close to him said, that Trump was making a ham-handed reference to the selflessness of America’s all-volunteer force. But later he came to realize that Trump simply does not understand non-transactional life choices.

    “He can’t fathom the idea of doing something for someone other than himself,” one of Kelly’s friends, a retired four-star general, told me. “He just thinks that anyone who does anything when there’s no direct personal gain to be had is a sucker. There’s no money in serving the nation.” Kelly’s friend went on to say, “Trump can’t imagine anyone else’s pain. That’s why he would say this to the father of a fallen marine on Memorial Day in the cemetery where he’s buried.”

    This absolutely sounds like what we know about Trump. Not just read about, but seen with our own eyes and heard with our own ears.

    Dana (292df6)

  10. It’s easy to forget today how good citizens of yesterday literally spit at vets coming home from Vietnam, Dustin.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:35 pm

    Yeah. Some of those folks went into politics I guess.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  11. led by a brat who calls you a sucker

    Was LBJ a ‘brat?’ Or Nixon? Or Bob McNamara?

    They knew.

    A trust betrayed is a hard wound to heal. So who were the suckers then– and now.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  12. That said, even with the benefit of the doubt I often give Trump, in terms of integrity, honor, ability, work ethic, etc., he’s still proven himself over and over again to be the worst president.

    What has Trump done that makes you think that he deserves the benefit of the doubt? I give the benefit of the doubt to those that have demonstrated qualities and values that can be admired. And yes, people slip, absolutely. But it’s the history of their character that would compel me to extend grace for the fall. Trump doesn’t have a history of upstanding character or guiding principles that define him. Thus he has long lost any benefit of the doubt from me. I don’t like being played for a sucker.

    Dana (292df6)

  13. Those soldiers were killed by his grandfather’s cousins. Who knows what he was brought up to believe about WWI?

    nk (1d9030)

  14. Which grandfather, BTW, was likewise a draft dodger and procurer.

    nk (1d9030)

  15. Yeah, it’s indefensible, and stupid considering his base has a lot of vets in it. But I have no problem preferring an incompetent, crooked assh0le over a party of socialists. Biden is just the beard.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  16. I know some serious military types who are ardent Trump supporters. A retired Marine colonel, a retired Seal, etc. I have to believe they are deciding on issues other than Trump himself.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  17. DCSCA,

    Since 9/11 we’ve seen a different attitude. We had an enemy, had some pride, a sense of national prestige, appreciated our troops. Or at least wanted people to see that we did. But it’s been a long time since 9/11. Bumper stickers crack and fade.

    I think the ‘baby killer’ mentality might be directed at our cops now, similarly with good examples of misconduct, My Lai, George Floyd. We also see militarized police and most of us aren’t pleased.

    But put all that aside. Trump wields tremendous power over our military. He doesn’t care what happens to them, yet he is responsible for them. It’s not a good look.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  18. Kevin,

    Weren’t you going to vote against Trump a few weeks ago?

    norcal (a5428a)

  19. @13. Reaganoptics: Ronnie went to Bitburg.

    ‘The Bitburg controversy preceded and followed a ceremonial visit by U.S. President Ronald Reagan to a German military cemetery in Bitburg, a town in extreme western Germany, in May 1985, designed to commemorate the end of World War II in Europe 40 years earlier. The visit aroused considerable criticism in the United States and around the world, when it became known that of the nearly 2,000 German soldiers buried there, 49 were soldiers of the Waffen-SS, the military arm of Nazi Germany’s SS.’ -source, wikikrautcount

    Was he a sucker?

    “I was misinformed.”- Rick Blaine [Humphrey Bogart] ‘Casablanca’ 1942

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  20. I give the benefit of the doubt to those that have demonstrated qualities and values that can be admired. And yes, people slip, absolutely. But it’s the history of their character that would compel me to extend grace for the fall. Trump doesn’t have a history of upstanding character or guiding principles that define him. Thus he has long lost any benefit of the doubt from me. I don’t like being played for a sucker.

    That may be true, but that doesn’t mean I have to believe every quote alleged to be his, especially if it’s seemingly tailor made to be as outrageous as possible. As I said before, this wouldn’t surprise me if Trump said it, but I’m not going to accept it or promote it as if he did based purely on an anonymous source. People have lied and made up stuff about him before and they’ll do it again and I’m not obligated to have anything other than a skeptical approach to the truth just because Trump is Trump.

    I do find that quote about Kelly more believable.

    Derek (4bc460)

  21. Biden (from Wikipedia):

    Biden attended the Archmere Academy in Claymont,where he was a standout halfback and wide receiver on the high school football team; he helped lead a perennially losing team to an undefeated season in his senior year. He played on the baseball team as well. Academically, he was a poor student but was considered a natural leader among the students and elected class president during his junior and senior years. He graduated in 1961.

    […]

    Biden received student draft deferments during this period [1966-68]. After he completed his studies, the Selective Service System classified him as unavailable for service due to a history of asthma.

    So, 2 draft dodgers.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  22. Weren’t you going to vote against Trump a few weeks ago?

    I will probably vote Libertarian. If the polls in NM are close at election time, I will have to think about voting for Trump then lying about it. I will not vote for Biden-Harris or any other member of this Democrat Party.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  23. But it’s been a long time since 9/11. Bumper stickers crack and fade.

    Even longer since Tet, Hue, Khe Sanh, Ia Drang and Hamburger Hill.

    Again: a trust betrayed is a hard wound to heal.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  24. I would think that the 3rd parties in California should get a lot of votes. Remember, if you vote for Biden, they will think it’s because you WANT Biden.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  25. @21. So, 2 draft dodgers.

    And in the context of the times- especially in the wake of The Pentagon Papers— did that make them smart– or suckers?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  26. Remember, if you vote for Biden, they will think it’s because you WANT Biden.

    And even those who WANT Biden will soon get Harris.

    norcal (a5428a)

  27. Right how many were killed or maimed by suleimani, or al raymi or baghdadi and yet the vaunted statesman looked the other wat. Who acted strongly in syria while others mumbled about red lines.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  28. I see that Drudge is running a link to a betting pool that is 60-40 for Biden. Meanwhile, RCP shows 8 betting pools that are 50-50 or a point away from that. Seems like an arbitrage opportunity.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  29. Was LBJ a ‘brat?’ Or Nixon? Or Bob McNamara?

    LBJ is an somewhat crude example of the sense of self, the ego, willpower, that successful modern politicians all share. Trump is a caricature of that.

    LBJ served. There are many complaints I could make about many presidents, but LBJ sent all those men to Vietnam understanding exactly what he was doing. Trump is also a war president, but he’s one who takes no responsibility, has no respect for those who are lost, probably very limited understanding of what he is doing.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  30. @29.Nixon served, too. That’s not the point.

    They knew.

    And sent tens of thousands to their fate anyway.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  31. Biden argued against hitting Bin Laden.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/01/08/bidens-claim-that-he-didnt-tell-obama-not-launch-bin-laden-raid/

    It’s a bit fuzzy, but they give Joe 3 Pinocchios for denying he argued against it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  32. Again: a trust betrayed is a hard wound to heal.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/3/2020 @ 7:55 pm

    On the one hand, sure. But why do people join the military today? Why did all those folks join the military after 9/11, fully aware that our administrations have a history of screwy stuff?

    Is it because they are suckers? Or was their trust betrayed with some degree of awareness, because the concept of sacrifice is broad?

    Dustin (825e2c)

  33. “So, 2 draft dodgers.”

    Unlike Trump, Biden isn’t lying about the asthma:

    “Biden has dealt with chronic asthma and allergies since childhood.”

    https://www.politico.com/story/2008/10/biden-appears-healthy-from-records-014768

    Davethulhu (4c5c2a)

  34. Biden would have been a good grunt. He would have fit in. Trump would have been fragged.

    nk (1d9030)

  35. And even those who WANT Biden will soon get Harris.

    Feb 2023, when she can run for two more terms.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  36. The AP has confirmed the story, with a different Defense Official.

    It’s true. If it was false, General Kelley would be out denying it already.

    “I like people that weren’t captured”.

    Jerald Wilson (daa85a)

  37. Trump would have been fragged.

    Pretty sure he would have been a REMF.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  38. That’s not the point.

    They knew.

    And sent tens of thousands to their fate anyway.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/3/2020 @ 8:03 pm

    True. My point is that maybe the troops still aren’t suckers for accepting what politicians are doing, maybe they even think some of these wars were worth the effort, hindsight being an easier but less accurate way to see what they saw.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  39. “Biden has dealt with chronic asthma and allergies since childhood.”

    Yet he was a football star. Asthma often disappears at puberty.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  40. @32. It’s a job. Reagan reclassified it as so back in term 1 to pad the adminitration’s unemployment figures.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  41. They knew

    LBJ and McNamara, sure. Nixon came along later and by that time we were hip deep in Vietnam.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  42. @38. ‘My country right or wrong’ is modern day sucker bait, Dustin.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  43. Read The Pentagon Papers.

    I read them in the Post.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  44. Soldiers fight for the guy next to them, not for what politicians tell them.

    nk (1d9030)

  45. @38. ‘My country right or wrong’ is modern day sucker bait, Dustin.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/3/2020 @ 8:10 pm

    No it’s not. Because many troops are thinking about their families, communities, and society, and on those grounds, their country IS the side they should be on.

    We have people who have our back even in these grey areas, and even when we’re wrong, though they hope we tend to be right. It’s ONLY because of that, that we have the kind of military we have. Pentagon Papers kinds of exposures, Edward Snowden stuff, most of our military doesn’t respond to that with shock, that they were gullible and expected their leaders to be more ethical. Perhaps there’s an idea that the world is a hard place and we have to cheat sometimes to win, but I think the real reason for patriotism is simple and tribal.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  46. 41. Nixon knew. Half the dead were killed on his watch.

    He had the PPs and the pubication of same is what put The Plumbers to work on Ellsberg, fired up the Big Dick’s rage at the press– and led to Watergate.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  47. Soldiers fight for the guy next to them, not for what politicians tell them.

    nk (1d9030) — 9/3/2020 @ 8:12 pm

    Better comment than mine.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  48. @45. We’ll just have to disagree on that point.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  49. DCSCA, I think part of the difference is that the soldier’s you’re thinking of were largely drafted. That changes the morality a bit.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  50. why did I put that apostrophe there good god

    Dustin (825e2c)

  51. And I liked your comment, Dustin.

    nk (1d9030)

  52. @43. So did Nixon.;-)

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  53. @49. Quite a bit.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  54. Goldberg has four firsthand sources, and it sounds like something Trump would say. He’s denying it, of course, but he’s not believable.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  55. Asthma is a pretty common reason for the military rejecting a candidate. The son of some friends of ours was dying to be a Ranger or Seal or Marine, but childhood asthma was the one thing that kept him out. He was devastated.
    I don’t doubt that Biden actually had childhood asthma, because he’s not a serial liar. I do doubt that Trump actually had bone spurs, because he lies and cheats about everything.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  56. @49. Quite a bit.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/3/2020 @ 8:17 pm

    I do get it. Trump is just transparent about being what Nixon and these other guys are.

    Interesting thought.

    I don’t want to defend a war that ended many years before I was born. I don’t mean to dismiss the harm, which you felt and saw and I did not. I miss my own friends who served with me, never made it home from Iraq. One of them pushed me, an idiot, to get an education, pushed me over and over again, got me enrolled. I never got to invite him to my graduation. Trump says he’s a sucker. I take it personally. A lot of Trump’s nonsense, his Muslim ban (I’m not muslim, but I am persian and have loved ones who are Muslim), his whole concept of what is right, it rubs me severely the wrong way.

    Biden’s weak sauce, but he’s a normal person I could probably relate to. He’s not a sociopath. He’s not totally insane. He might not mean it every time he thanks someone for their service, might be going through the motions of respect at times, but he doesn’t hate everybody like a freak.

    Trump is a freak.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  57. @1

    Yes, including those who try to do so here.

    I thought about closing comments, but hey. Let’s leave them open. Identify yourselves. Go ahead.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 9/3/2020 @ 6:36 pm

    I mean… if you want to use the same standards that Democrats accused Brett Kavanaugh as a serial sexual assaulter, I guess you can believe stories like that. Insert the Hillary Clinton shruggie gif here.

    …but my trust in media has eroded to the point where listing EXPLOSIVE exposé and substantiating it with “we spoke with four people who wishes to remain anonymous and they confirmed this” isn’t going to cut it.

    How many times are you going to get hoodwinked by the media making up sh!t using the veneer of anonymous sources??

    We should demand Goldberg to name these sources so that we voters can assess the veracity. This is a heinous allegation, such that it would be totally irresponsible for Goldberg to only justify that story with just anonymous sources. His sources should be pounding the table about this.

    But, consider this in context…election day is 60 days away. I bit too early for that “October Surprise” to drop…

    What if, the Biden campaign and DNC internal polling is showing an electoral disaster (primarily due to lockdown and the riots)? Is it that bad?

    If yes, then you give the greenlight to your connected media folk, *cough*The Atlantic*cough* to fabricate a 2 year old story about Trump disparaging fallen US soldiers to stop Joe’s campaign bleeding.

    That’s how bad.

    …and you wonder why the F’n #FakeNews has legs…

    whembly (c30c83)

  58. Since Trump is not a self-professed Christian, my guess is that the “whatever” he’s swearing on is a stack of Art of the Deal books in his tiny library.

    “Also, I never called John a loser and swear on whatever, or whoever, I was asked to swear on, that I never called our great fallen soldiers anything other than HEROES.”

    Um, yeah, Trump did call McCain a loser.

    Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump took an ongoing feud with Sen. John McCain to a new level today, mocking the former GOP nominee for having been a prisoner of war and calling him a “loser” for failing to win the White House in 2008.
    “He was a war hero because he was captured,” Trump said at the 2015 Family Leadership Summit in Ames, Iowa.
    “I like people who weren’t captured,” the current Republican front-runner told political consultant Frank Luntz, who hosted the event.
    “He lost and let us down,” Trump said. “I’ve never liked him as much after that.”
    “I don’t like losers,” the real-estate mogul, who has gone through corporate bankruptcy four times, added.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  59. @56

    Biden’s weak sauce, but he’s a normal person I could probably relate to. He’s not a sociopath. He’s not totally insane. He might not mean it every time he thanks someone for their service, might be going through the motions of respect at times, but he doesn’t hate everybody like a freak.

    Trump is a freak.

    Dustin (825e2c) — 9/3/2020 @ 8:31 pm

    “a normal person” who’s been accused of digitally raping a staffer in Congress. Is that someone you could probably relate to? I mean, he’s probably been in government for as long (if not more) than you’ve been alive.

    I don’t think Biden is insane… I think he’s mentally compromised, such that he’ll be controlled by the radical lefties in his party.

    whembly (c30c83)

  60. who’s been accused of digitally raping a staffer in Congress. I

    I took that accusation seriously, and I don’t believe it at this point. I think biden is creepy around women all the time and this was an easy piece of very dirty politics. I note you are unable to assert you actually believe the accusation. You just repeat that he’s been accused. You know why your blogs just say it that way? Because it’s BS. BS from freaks.

    he’s probably been in government for as long (if not more) than you’ve been alive.

    Much longer.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  61. @60

    I note you are unable to assert you actually believe the accusation.

    I believe it.

    She told her friends/confidant when it happened and they backed her claim.

    whembly (c30c83)

  62. Is the atlantic reliable

    https://mobile.twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1301687754741501952

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  63. I believe it.

    She told her friends/confidant when it happened and they backed her claim.

    whembly (c30c83) — 9/3/2020 @ 9:05 pm

    I’ll take you at your word. I think it was a weak accusation. Compared with Trump’s bragging about the same kind of behavior, I honestly don’t understand why you support Trump over Biden on the issue, since Trump is clearly inferior.

    But I do understand why you brought it up, here, a thread about Trump disgracing our war dead.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  64. I put Tara Reade in the same category as Trump. Born liars.

    nk (1d9030)

  65. Biden:

    “a normal person” who’s been accused of digitally raping a staffer in Congress. Is that someone you could probably relate to?

    I followed that story closely because I was inclined to believe it, however, there ended up being too many inconsistencies to make it believable. It’s hard to understand how this is a reason for anyone to not vote for him, yet vote for Trump in spite of the many accusations of sexual misconduct against him, including actual rape.

    Dana (292df6)

  66. @65 Same. Her story didn’t add up with the time period she set it in or other known facts and then the history of conning people on top of it, it just ultimately wasn’t believable.

    Nic (896fdf)

  67. ‘The walls arent closing

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1301741080577298437

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  68. Trump say marines who died at belleau wood were losers for joining the marines and suckers for dying for their country. At least vietnam war draft dodger and chicken hawk mitt romney held a support the draft rally at yale even if he didn’t plan to serve in the military himself.

    asset (850cad)

  69. it sounds like something Trump would say.

    Or like things Trump has openly said. His public comments and tweets very often reveal the character of a soulless sociopath. But when the same sorts of comments are reported to have been made behind the scenes, his cultists all purport to find then not believable. It’s very weird.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  70. “I don’t like losers,” the real-estate mogul, who has gone through corporate bankruptcy four times, added

    Oh, but he figured out how to push the costs of his mistakes onto other people. WINNING!

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  71. Somebody should make a TV cartoon show about Trump. You know, have this character going around lying, cheating, and puffing himself up all the time. Even kids would find it funny!

    norcal (a5428a)

  72. Ms. Reade disappeared pretty quickly after her sketchy character came to light.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  73. Goldberg isn’t the only journalist who was told stuff

    A senior Defense Department official I just spoke with confirmed this story by @JeffreyGoldberg in its entirety. Especially the grafs about the late Sen. John McCain and former Marine Gen. John Kelly, President @realDonaldTrump former chief of staff.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  74. If there are people who think Colin Kaepernick should be shunned for “disrespecting the troops” (he didn’t), while Donald Trump is a great patriot who cherishes and admires the troops (he doesn’t), and this Atlantic story is just TDS from the Trump-hating Fake News (it isn’t), the lesson is, don’t forget to air out your butt gerbils.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  75. Would someone please release my 12:09 am comment from moderation? Many thanks.

    (I’m guessing the word I tripped the filter with was “butt-gerbil.” Wasn’t that in general, acceptable use here a few months ago?)

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  76. I get a lot of curious stares and reactions when I tell people that I believe Trump *and* Biden are both beneath contempt, ergo neither deserves or will get my vote in November. But, truth is truth and it is what it is. 😉

    Gryph (f63000)

  77. 76. If he’s elected I fully expect Biden to be a bad president who regularly does things I don’t like. But beneath contempt? How exactly? I mean sure, he’s done some shameful things. I thought it entirely proper that the disclosure of his plagiarism cost him his 1988 run for president.* But if I put every remotely contemptible thing Biden has done in his 150 years on this planet into a big pile, it wouldn’t come up to a slow week in the altogether contemptible life of Donald Trump. How many worse things than plagiarism did Trump do in the 2016 campaign alone without even budging the needle of his followers’ adoration? If you’re going to call Biden contemptible, you’ll have to break new semantic ground to adequately describe the daily loathsome evil that’s Trump.

    BTW, hope things are looking up for you.

    (*DCSCA, did you hear Biden was caught plagiarizing 30 years ago? That’s something you may want to look into.)

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  78. https://mobile.twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1301741080577298437
    Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 9/3/2020 @ 10:34 pm

    Thanks for the report. Sounds like the Atlantic has some explaining to do.

    Do I think Trump could/would say something like this? Absolutely. But so does everyone at this point. So is writing a piece like this even necessary? Especially when you leave yourself open to a simple fact check that now jeopardizes your whole piece?

    One of the previous commenters mentioned this could be an “October Surprise” type article. At this point, the Democrat October Surprise has to be good…and different. Trump is so outrageous that normal surprises simply aren’t going to work.

    Hoi Polloi (dc4124)

  79. 76. He’s a clinically demented Marxist whom the Dems apparently thought was their best chance against Donald J. freaking Trump.

    I mean, Jesus H. tapdancing Christ…we’re you’re arguing amongst [y]ourselves which of these clowns is the lesser of two evils while conveniently ignoring the fact that the lesser of two evils is still evil.

    Gryph (f63000)

  80. SUCKERS AND LOSERS?

    That will be on bumper stickers, t-shirts and red hats everywhere in two weeks.

    noel (9fead1)

  81. 79. Make America Great Again, Again! Donald “Transactional” Trump 2020!

    Gryph (f63000)

  82. BTW, hope things are looking up for you.

    lurker (d8c5bc) — 9/4/2020 @ 4:23 am

    I’m freshly divorced and living out of a one-bedroom apartment on ramen and Chef BoyArDee. But I’m alive.

    Gryph (f63000)

  83. Hang in there.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  84. Trump denies. That should settle it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  85. As an anti-anti-Trumper, but not a Trumper, I will agree that this statement is utterly contemptible.

    Of course, that is assuming he said it. There are already reports on the web that deny he ever did it. We will see who is right (or maybe not).

    The only defense here is “I didn’t do it.” Which, AFAIK, is still a good legal defense in a criminal case.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  86. I mean, Jesus H. tapdancing Christ…we’re you’re arguing amongst [y]ourselves which of these clowns is the lesser of two evils while conveniently ignoring the fact that the lesser of two evils is still evil.

    Can’t speak for others, but I am not ignoring it. Trump is an embarassment and a disaster. But that does not mean the alternative is not worse. If you have to make a binary choice, then you may have to choose the lesser of two evils.

    If you want to do something constructive, think about how we got here. How did someone like Trump get elected? I doubt that 20 years ago he could have been.

    Let me give you a hint about what I think the answer is. A Shakespeare quote is most appropriate:

    The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  87. So, did Trump actually say it or not? In any case, it’s quite consistent with things he has been documented as saying, so even if it’s anecdotal, whose fault is it that such anecdotes ring true? If Trump were not the sociopath that he is–that is, if he were a decent human being with a shred of regard for the unfortunate, for “losers”–then no one would believe such reports. They ring true because he is who he is.
    I find it depressing just to think about election day. Voting for Trump is out of the question, of course, but I don’t much like Biden either. Though I consider Biden the lesser of two evils, I’m not sure I could say the same about Harris. (Why didn’t Biden do the sensible thing and choose Val Demings?) No matter which one wins, the aftermath is going to be nasty because it will almost certainly be contested.

    Roger (a5bda3)

  88. He’s a clinically demented Marxist…

    Which clinic gave Biden that diagnosis? And was it for dementia or Marxism. Or both?

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  89. @87

    “hyperbole — exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally”

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  90. Documents released show clearly that the visit was canceled due to weather Even Anti-Trumper Bolton relates the weather as the cause in his book. I’ll take that over partisan biased anonymous reports from a leftist mag. (who stays anonymous bashing Trump? It’s a badge of honor these days)

    Marci (405d43)

  91. So he’s neither a marxist or has dementia. Good to know.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  92. So he’s neither a marxist or has dementia. Good to know.

    What he is, is an exceptionally weak and pandering politician, whose party is now dominated by, or intimidate by, Marxists, who will have a great influence on his admininstraiton and its policies. Assuming he survives and is not pushed out by his VP pick, who is a hard leftist and will let the Marxists run away with every ridiculous idea they want.

    And he is in mental decline. Not dementia yet, but well on his way.

    That is meant to be taken literally. And what the hyperbole is meant to reference in a pithy way.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  93. Documents released show clearly that the visit was canceled due to weather Even Anti-Trumper Bolton relates the weather as the cause in his book.

    Please, provide the “documents”

    Also, the never trumper that trump chose to work for him and that chose to work for trump? Who’s fault for hiring him would that be? or Sessions, or Mattis, or Tillerson, or Zinke, or Puzder, or Price, or Shulkin…all the best people.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  94. Documents released show clearly that the visit was canceled due to weather Even Anti-Trumper Bolton relates the weather as the cause in his book.

    I’ve read that, too. Trump could not let his Aqua Net get wet and Melania (I am not making this up) was afraid her high heels would sink into the wet ground. But two things can be true at the same time. The weather could have been the real reason, and Trump’s dismissive remarks the rationalization.

    nk (1d9030)

  95. Does that make it better?

    nk (1d9030)

  96. From Mary Trump’s book…

    “We’re treated worse because our father died, I said… When we pointed out that our cousins would still benefit from what their parents were getting from my grandfather, Rob [Trump’s brother] said, “Any of them could get disowned at any time. Donny was going to join the army or some bullsh*t like that, and Donald and Ivana told him if he did, they’d disown him in a second.”

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  97. I don’t hate Trump, but I’m beginning to really hate hyperbole.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  98. @95

    Reminds me of a story about George Bush, the father. When WWII broke out, his father was a Senator and did not want him to join the military. He defied his father, and at 19 joined what was then the air corps. He explained that he wanted to fight the Nazis.

    Yes, he had more character and integrity in his pinkie than Trump has in his whole body.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  99. Small correction. Acc. to Wikipedia, “On his 18th birthday, immediately after graduating from Phillips Academy, he [George Bush] enlisted in the United States Navy as a naval aviator.”

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  100. Well this anonymously sourced hit piece fell apart fast. But of course, it must be true despite actual evidence it’s not, because it confirms all the worst things you think about Trump.

    Edoc118 (2dc47f)

  101. Well this anonymously sourced hit piece fell apart fast.

    Yeah? Where? Just cause Trumpkins put their fingers in their ears and chant “Nyah, nyah, nyah, can’t hear”? That’s falling apart? You people could watch Trump have carnal relations with a Doberman and deny it’s happening.

    nk (1d9030)

  102. Big media writers (Wapo, New Yorker, CBS News, NYT, etc) are demanding that Goldberg’s sources go public with their claims, or that John Kelly deny or confirm the report.

    Dana (292df6)

  103. The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves.

    And Trump bestrides the narrow world like a Colossus?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  104. Techno Fog
    @Techno_Fog
    ·
    On that Atlantic Story –

    @JeffreyGoldberg and his “four sources” claim Trump’s helicopter flight to the US/French cemetery wasn’t cancelled due to weather.

    FOIA docs prove this to be false. [attached]

    Their “sources” are failing basic fact checks – making them essentially worthless.

    https://twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1301741080577298437?s=20
    _

    harkin (cd4502)

  105. because it confirms all the worst things you think about Trump.

    The worst things I think about Trump are based on the words that come directly from his mouth, on tape, or from his thumbs, on Twitter.
    The “confirmation,” if more were needed, comes from the reports of people who have worked closely with him (and from his sister and his niece) who say he’s really not a better person than the “style” he projects.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  106. To sum up some Trump supporters’ views, we shouldn’t believe this story despite multiple confirmations because it could be made up due to media bias. So no need to think about it or trouble ourselves, because FAKE NEWS! Trump couldn’t do it better.

    DRJ (aede82)

  107. Try this: Hypothetically, if Trump said this, then what would the defense be?

    DRJ (aede82)

  108. You can stack up a mountain of obvious lies by Trump, and his defenders will try to explain them away and insist that he’s actually honest and trustworthy where it really counts.

    But if they find any inaccuracy of reporting in a story about Trump saying things in private that sound an awful lot like things he says in public and comport with his general pattern of behavior in life, they’ll say the whole story is a fable.

    There’s little that’s funnier than Trump apologists pretending to be offended by factual inaccuracy.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  109. The DDID partially backs up Goldberg here

    A former senior administration official, who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity to speak candidly, confirmed to The Washington Post that the president frequently made disparaging comments about veterans and soldiers missing in action, referring to them at times as “losers.”
    In one account, the president told senior advisers that he didn’t understand why the U.S. government placed such value on finding soldiers missing in action because they had performed poorly and gotten caught and deserved what they got, according to a person familiar with the discussion.
    Trump believed people who served in the Vietnam War must be “losers” because they hadn’t gotten out of it, according to a person familiar with the comments. Trump also complained bitterly to then-Chief of Staff John F. Kelly that he didn’t understand why Kelly and others in the military treated McCain, who had been imprisoned and tortured during the Vietnam War, with such reverence. “Isn’t he kind of a loser?” Trump asked, according to the person familiar with Trump’s comments.

    It hasn’t even been 24 hours. More accounts of Trump’s unpatriotic un-Americanism are sure to come out.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  110. @101

    Big media writers (Wapo, New Yorker, CBS News, NYT, etc) are demanding that Goldberg’s sources go public with their claims, or that John Kelly deny or confirm the report.

    Dana (292df6) — 9/4/2020 @ 8:17 am

    Good. Because if true, it definitely need the sources to be named, so that voters can adjust accordingly at the ballot box.

    If Goldberg refuses or of John Kelly takes a pass (one way or the other), then add this story to the pile of #FakeNews and throw Goldberg’s reputation in the gutter.

    whembly (b57cfe)

  111. @106

    Try this: Hypothetically, if Trump said this, then what would the defense be?

    DRJ (aede82) — 9/4/2020 @ 8:29 am

    None whatsoever.

    whembly (b57cfe)

  112. But of course, it must be true despite actual evidence it’s not, because it confirms all the worst things you think about Trump.

    All of the worst things I have thought about Trump have been confirmed by Trump. That’s why I think the worst things about him.

    Dana (292df6)

  113. I put Tara Reade in the same category as Trump. Born liars.

    Bingo. I was right about her all along.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  114. @106

    Try this: Hypothetically, if Trump said this, then what would the defense be?

    DRJ (aede82) — 9/4/2020 @ 8:29 am

    None whatsoever.

    And yet if it is proven true by on the record sources you’ll shrug it off.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  115. More accounts of Trump’s unpatriotic un-Americanism

    It’s beyond that. It’s an absence of basic human empathy and decency.

    Donald J. Trump is a soulless sociopath, which he “confirms” by his own words every day.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  116. And yet if it is proven true by on the record sources you’ll shrug it off.

    I once heard a parable. It was a bit crude, but makes the point here.

    The dogs once held a convention. One of them said, “You know, it is really shameful that when two dogs meet, they smell each other’s anus. When wolves meet, they smell each other nose-to-nose. We should be noble and dignified and do as the wolves do.”

    All of the dogs thought that was a great idea, and barked their agreement.

    The next day, one dog was walking down the street, when he met another dog. The second one approached the first one’s nose.

    Said the first dog, “I know you are dog. No need to pretend with me. You can just stick your nose in my rear.”

    We know already know what a low-life Trump is. No need to tear your hair out every time he confirms what we already know.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  117. Before the 2016 campaign, Trump occasionally talked about Vietnam with radio host Howard Stern, who often joked about his own imaginary exploits in the war. In two separate interviews during the 1990s, Trump compared trying to avoid sexually transmitted diseases on the dating scene to “my personal Vietnam.”

    “It’s pretty dangerous out there,” he said in 1993. “It’s like Vietnam.”

    He added in 1996: “I feel like a very great and very brave soldier.”

    Trump echoed these exchanges in a 2004 interview with Playboy. “I tell my sons just to get a nice girlfriend and be happy, because it’s dangerous out there,” he said. “It’s Vietnam.”

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  118. Pentagon orders shutdown of Stars and Stripes newspaper
    ……
    The order to halt publication by Sept. 30, and dissolve the organization by the end of January, is the latest salvo in the Pentagon’s move earlier this year to cut the $15.5 million in funding for the paper from the department’s budget. And it is a reflection of the Trump administration’s broader animosity for the media and members of the press.

    Members of Congress have objected to the defunding move for months. And senators sent a letter to Defense Secretary Mark Esper this week urging him to reinstate funding. The letter, signed by 15 senators — including Republicans and Democrats — also warns Esper that the department is legally prohibited from canceling a budget program while a temporary continuing resolution funding the federal government is in effect.
    ……
    Stripes ombudsman, Ernie Gates, told The Associated Press on Friday that shutting the paper down “would be fatal interference and permanent censorship of a unique First Amendment organization that has served U.S. troops reliably for generations.”
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  119. Stephen L. Miller
    @redsteeze
    ·
    It’s weird to watch this go from “well we can’t confirm he said this.” to “but he definitely said this about McCain.”

    His treatment of McCain’s service was an abomination. And we were pointing this out while he was getting unlimited air time.
    __

    What’s weirder is the Dems had ads targeting vets ready to go.
    _

    harkin (cd4502)

  120. Maybe you forgot that Russia has been paying bounties on American soldiers, that it’s not new news, and that maybe the military would be pissed that Trump has completely down played it.

    That it’s come out that Trump said in private exactly the same kinds of things he’s done in public is shocking, shocking, I tell you.

    Trump is the worst of the fake macho wannabe pansy I’ve ever seen. He’s soft, he whines like a 12 year old.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  121. … contemptible life of Donald Trump.

    And where do you park your helicopter?

    Jealous. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  122. What’s weirder is the Dems had ads targeting vets ready to go.

    Not weird at all. There was already an organization called “Veterans Against Trump,” and some veterans had already made public statements explaining why they won’t vote for Trump, and recent polling showed eroding support for Trump among active-duty service members, and Trump’s disrespect for top brass was already obvious.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  123. We know already know what a low-life Trump is. No need to tear your hair out every time he confirms what we already know.

    I remember when Republicans talked about “scandal fatigue” in the Clinton era. They found it appalling that Clinton could get away with stuff by the sheer number of scandals, and whenever conservatives called him out, the Dems would say “Those Clinton-haters are always saying mean things about Our President! They just never stop!”

    Now a lot of those same Rs have found the sheer awfulness of Trump to be a defense of Trump, because it makes the “Trump-haters” with their TDS keep saying mean things about poor Donald. It can’t ever be Donald’s fault that people disapprove of him.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  124. @119 0% of the vets I know plan to vote for Trump.

    Nic (896fdf)

  125. O.M.G.

    Again, a Wilmington presser by committee: feigning outrage, Plagirist Biden takes a question or two again from screened press– but first points to staff saying, “I don’t have a list- so you go ahead and call.”

    “I’m a smart fella.” – Plagiarist JoeyBee 9/4/20

    Biden admits he has been tested for Covid-19.

    Once.
    ____

    @105/106. If the ‘sources’ weren’t ‘anonymous’ it might have more sting — for a cycle or two. If Kelly and Mathis are the sources and had the guts to call a presser and confirm it might make for better counter programming. So much for the ‘courage’ of the brass.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  126. My God, Biden’s brain is scrambling LIVE on camera.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  127. “Presidents of the United States should lead by example.” – Plagiarist JoeyBee 9/4/20

    Plenty of examples of plagiarism in all your life, Joe.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  128. @118, What a complete loser.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  129. @118. Over 2000 American Newspapers Have Closed in Past 15 Years – source, 247wallst.com

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  130. @114

    @106
    Try this: Hypothetically, if Trump said this, then what would the defense be?
    DRJ (aede82) — 9/4/2020 @ 8:29 am

    None whatsoever.

    And yet if it is proven true by on the record sources you’ll shrug it off.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 9/4/2020 @ 8:55 am

    REALLY!?!?!

    NYT got a NAMED source (Bolton) who refuted one of Goldberg’s point:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/04/us/politics/trump-veterans-losers.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

    Mr. Bolton said he was in the room at the ambassador’s residence when Mr. Trump arrived and Mr. Kelly told him that the helicopter trip had to be canceled. A two-hour motorcade would have put him too far away from Air Force One and the most capable communications array a president needs in case of an emergency, per usual protocol, Mr. Bolton said. “It was a straight weather call,” Mr. Bolton said.

    Are you now going to shrug that off and claim Bolton is a Trumpalos? I wouldn’t because in that same interview he couched it with:

    Having said that, Mr. Bolton added, the reported comments were not out of character. “I haven’t heard anybody yet react to say, ‘That’s not the Donald Trump I know,’” he said.

    So, not exactly a shining Trumpalos Knight here…

    We now have more named individuals that counters Goldberg’s 4 anonymous sources.

    Now what?

    whembly (7c17c7)

  131. this is garbage, fake news, in all its glory, Just like the Russia hoax you first heard through trusted friends. It is certainly an opinion-infected mash up of his rebukes of McCain, but it does NOT ring true. it rings like another source-less fiction promulgated by the usual suspects, and for the same reasons. I don’t like Trump, but this is garbage.

    SarahW (08f5d7)

  132. UPDATE:
    Trump says Stars and Stripes will stay funded, following reports the Pentagon was shutting it down

    President Donald Trump committed Friday to preserving funding for Stars and Stripes, the military’s independent newspaper, following reports that the administration was moving to dissolve the publication.
    ……

    Previous:
    Pentagon instructs Stars and Stripes to dissolve
    ………
    USA Today reports that the Pentagon has distributed a memo to the publication instructing the publisher to craft a plan that “dissolves” the publication. The memo, written by Col. Paul Haverstick Jr., adds that the publication’s last issue in all forms will be Sept. 30, per USA Today.

    Stars and Stripes confirmed to Military Times it received the memo in August. Stars and Stripes Ombudsman Ernie Gates said in an email to Military Times shutting the publication “down would be fatal interference and permanent censorship of a unique First Amendment organization that has served U.S. troops reliably for generations” and urged the Pentagon and Congress to continue its funding.
    …….

    Trump gets rolled again.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  133. The Atlantic should be at the bottom of the Pacific.

    mg (8cbc69)

  134. @133 vindictive coward backs down from fight. News at 11.

    Time123 (fe8c30)

  135. Step back from all this and it’s just another silly episode of Trump-speak.

    The fawning over our military, paticularly the brass, has swung from extreme to extreme for 70-plus years or so in the postwar world–from Truman’s lovefest w/Marshall– and firing of Caesar MacArthur; Korea and Ike’s wary words over the MIC; JFK’s healthy skepticism during the Cuban Missile Crisis; LBJ blind belief in the likes of Westmoreland… Nixon’s misguided chase of peace with honor; Ford’s rising choppers over the fall of Saigon; Carter’s desperate Desert One debacle; Reagan’s Beruit blast, Granada surprise and the Iran-Contra mess w/Jolly Ollie. The Bush family and their oily Gulf Wars, Clinton… Obama… they all have their crosses to bear.

    It swings to extremes. Ending the draft certainly changed the composite character of the ranks. Today it’s a volunteer force. Recruits join a high risk organization by choice— and it’s that rationale that puzzles Trump. [FWIW, Nixon never quite understood why astronauts would risk everything, either.] He’s not alone. For many, it’s a job w/marketable skill sets later in the private sector to learn and a path into the middle class–with benfits; for others it’s a genuine issue of patriotism. Still others like to wear uniforms and just blow things up.

    But if you’re old enough, you can recall how Vietnam vets were poorly treated by otherwise good citizens- shunned and disrespected- chiefly because they were immediate, visible symbols of a very, very unpopular war. Or how campus ROTC ops were shunned, sometimes attacked; eventually shuttered– and students in the program laughed at, humiliated –or egged– labeled ‘baby killers’ while in uniform walking to classes across campus. It took a long time for the pendulum to swing back the other way. To be sure, ‘suckers’ and ‘losers’ are just blunt, simplistic and incredibly poor word choices; lousy language. But for a fella w/a limited vocabulary from Queens, NY, it’s pure Trump.

    “It was a bad time for everyone, Rambo.” – Col. Trautman [Richard Crenna] ‘First Blood’ 1982

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  136. #133 — Do you think his so-called “rebukes” of McCain (as though Trump were his moral superior!) are merely a one-off?

    The Atlantic story comports with things that often come out of Trump’s mouth in public, or his Twitter account.
    He throws around the “loser” and “dummy” labels freely. He thinks his critics envy his wealth and status. He openly mocked a disabled reporter, and his cultists laughed. He ridicules women’s appearance. He said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose any voters. He thought it was funny to describe himself as a very brave soldier for dodging STDs in his “personal Vietnam.”

    He wanted really sharp spikes on the border wall, to do maximal bodily harm.

    The reports emerging from the inside, whether from people speaking on the record or anonymous sources, only confirm that Trump’s “style” reflects his substance. There is not a better human being hiding beneath the callous, self-absorbed sociopathic exterior. His worldview is basically “I win / you lose.” Or as he said at a rally, “All my life I’ve been greedy. I grab and grab and grab.”

    The idea that he developed a soul just to run for the presidency is what completely lacks credibility.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  137. Fox News has confirmed parts of the story.

    Patterico (97e6be)

  138. As I said in another thread, “Four unnamed sources” is awfully weak sauce considering what parts of Donald J. Trump’s character have been on display for decades in the Manhattan real estate market. If matters of public record won’t change a Trump humper’s mind, I can’t fathom how this story could, no matter how plausible.

    Gryph (f63000)

  139. https://twitter.com/jacquiheinrich/status/1301972236790886402

    NEW, @JenGriffinFNC confirms former Trump admin official confirms details in The Atlantic story, including quotes about veterans. When the President spoke about the Vietnam War he said, “It was a stupid war. Anyone who went was a sucker.”

    There are more tweets.

    Patterico (97e6be)

  140. 139. Was that from another “unnamed source,” Pat?

    Gryph (f63000)

  141. I trust Trump who promised he would swear on whatever those holy books are that he never called McCain a loser even though he did on video. I get very huffy about factual inaccuracies in the media but Trump never lies as far as I can tell!

    Patterico (97e6be)

  142. Gryph, you have a good point. Trump’s said this stuff in front of all of us about Mccain, including the lose stuff Trump is denying he ever said. If you had a problem with calling tortured POWs ‘losers’ this story is merely a reminder. If you defended that stuff cause Mccain’s a mean RINO, you’ll defend this too.

    it’s just another silly episode

    No it’s not silly. Not everything is a joke or intellectual at all. If you’re in the business of sending men and women into danger, betraying them over and over again is disqualifying. Russian bounties, dishonoring their memory, lying that they had head injuries from Iran’s missiles, it’s not silly.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  143. 141. Again, Trump’s bashing of McCain is a matter of public record. How many sources for this story from 2018 have actually come forward publicly?

    Gryph (f63000)

  144. Dustin, Trump does two or three disqualifying things a day. This crowd will always defend him. He has to get his ass kicked at the polls. That’s all there is to it.

    Patterico (97e6be)

  145. @142. Yes. It is, Dustin.

    By Monday’s news cycle, it’ll be ‘something completely different’…

    Like a man with three buttocks. 😉

    You just don’t get it. One day -a light will click on– and you will.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  146. 144. He won’t. And I don’t like that any more than you do, but here we are. He will win and quite possibly do so in a landslide. And everyone who votes for him in 2020 will think they helped America dodge a bullet of leftism.

    Gryph (f63000)

  147. Yes. It is, Dustin.

    You can choose what you care about. The idea this is silly is really absurd, basically a troll, no offense intended.

    There’s that one comic going around, Tomb of the Unknown Loser.

    I couldn’t invite my best friend to my college graduation. He twisted my arm to go to school when we served together overseas, but he never made it home, and the president thinks he’s a sucker. I don’t see why that’s silly. I also know it doesn’t really change the character of anyone’s service. Obviously if you’re going to think about Trump you need thick skin, but you also need to speak up.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  148. Realistically, I don’t know if Trump said these things he was accused of. That’s not me defending Trump; that’s me giving due credibility to “four unnamed sources.” Is it something he is of the character and soundness-of-mind to have said? Absolutely. That doesn’t mean he did. It doesn’t mean he didn’t. I give the same amount of credibility to current and ex- administration staffers who are saying he didn’t say it, which is to say, none at all.

    It seems like Trump haters desperately want it to be true. But they don’t really know any more than I do or anyone else does.

    Gryph (f63000)

  149. @142. For goodness sake, Dustin, by any rationale standards this guy should never have survived the primaries let alone win the nomination– and the general. But he did.

    Trying to take him down on issues of character this cycle is a waste of time — it’s as if anyone who opposes him has not learned anything. That was settled last time.

    Hell, he was impeached!!! Remember that??? Recall that TIME poll on the other thread – HRC was ahead by double digits 12 ds befor the election.

    There’s been a sea change.

    And w/Biden, the Ds are going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. It’s just mind boggling.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  150. ^ rational

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  151. @142. For goodness sake, Dustin, by any rationale standards this guy should never have survived the primaries let alone win the nomination– and the general. But he did.

    correct, sir

    Dustin (825e2c)

  152. @151. So ask yourself= WHY?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  153. There’s been a sea change.

    I think some of this has to do with Russia and the internet, crazy and very outspoken people (perhaps such as myself) having more impact than the normal folks. I don’t think Trump represents as great a deviation as it seems (where nothing matters anymore).

    I’m hopeful in some way we develop some mental immunity to the BS over time. We’ve got to.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  154. 152. *raises hand*

    Perhaps Trump’s election is a symbol of the ultimately self-destructive moral decay that has been eating at America since at least the turn of the 20th century…?

    Gryph (f63000)

  155. Gryph, one could say a lot of that is also Russian.

    Maybe McCarthy was onto something.

    But a lot of this is just how difficult it has become to say ‘no that’s not what I think’. Conformity culture has made it hard to tell what’s normal, with unpredictable outcomes.

    Do most GOP 2016 voters really think Trump should be the nominee? I doubt it, even though that seems objectively determined as a yes.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  156. More from LaPorta

    The allegations were first reported in The Atlantic. A senior Defense Department official with firsthand knowledge of events and a senior U.S. Marine Corps officer who was told about Trump’s comments confirmed some of the remarks to The Associated Press, including the 2018 cemetery comments.
    The defense officials said Trump made the comments as he begged off visiting the cemetery outside Paris during a meeting following his presidential daily briefing on the morning of Nov. 10, 2018.
    Staffers from the National Security Council and the Secret Service told Trump that rainy weather made helicopter travel to the cemetery risky, but they could drive there. Trump responded by saying he didn’t want to visit the cemetery because it was “filled with losers,” the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because the official was not authorized to discuss it publicly.
    […]
    The Defense officials also confirmed to The AP reporting in The Atlantic that Trump on Memorial Day 2017 had gone with his chief of staff, John Kelly, to visit the Arlington Cemetery gravesite of Kelly’s son, Robert, who was killed in 2010 in Afghanistan, and said to Kelly: “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?”
    The senior Marine Corps officer and The Atlantic, citing sources with firsthand knowledge, also reported that Trump said he didn’t want to support the August 2018 funeral of Republican Sen. John McCain, a decorated Navy veteran who spent years as a Vietnam prisoner of war, because he was a “loser.” The Atlantic also reported that Trump was angered that flags were flown at half-staff for McCain, saying: “What the f—- are we doing that for? Guy was a f—-ing loser.”

    This corroborates Goldberg’s account.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  157. @153. I’m hopeful in some way we develop some mental immunity to the BS over time. We’ve got to.

    New Yorkers did.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  158. 155. There are a certain number of Trump humpers out there who, with the support of enough of the silent majority to put him over the top, voted him into office. I don’t think anything’s changed to enough of a degree to change that in 2020. Anyone feeling buyer’s remorse has only one alternative now: a clinically demented plagiarist. Fortunately, since I didn’t vote for Trump in 2016, buyer’s remorse is not a factor in my calculus.

    Gryph (f63000)

  159. 156. More unnamed sources. *YAWN*

    Gryph (f63000)

  160. When the President spoke about the Vietnam War he said, “It was a stupid war. Anyone who went was a sucker.”

    Read The Pentagon Papers.

    They were. And those who sent them knew it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  161. @159. If they’re military officials- it speak volumes about their ‘courage under fire’… the pen may just be mightier than the sword after all.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  162. 160. Brave thing to say in an internet forum. One of my dad’s friends was in Vietnam, and he would eat you alive for saying that to his face.

    Gryph (f63000)

  163. Anyone feeling buyer’s remorse has only one alternative now: a clinically demented plagiarist.

    Well I guess they have to decide if plagiarism in 1988 is worth more than the honor of whatever veteran practically every American has lost from their family or friends in the past 20 years. We have to decide if copying a term paper is worse than telling people to cheat at the election for you. Ideally we could just say ‘no, both are unacceptable’ and it’s the binary choice argument to say otherwise. I feel that things are dire enough that the binary choice argument works and we should vote for Biden. But a lot of reasonable people refuse to vote for Biden/Harris and I respect that.

    Even the most aggressive bias only puts Biden down on par with Trump mentally. I saw a meme today where someone is freaking out that Biden is probably getting vitamin b12 injections. Everyone rolls their eyes at that.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  164. Jennifer Griffin
    @JenGriffinFNC
    ·
    2h
    This former official heard the President say about American veterans: “What’s in it for them? They don’t make any money.” Source: “It was a character flaw of the President. He could not understand why someone would die for their country, not worth it.”

    But the men that judge these character flaws, and truly understand and revere the American Soldiers, are cloaked in anonymity presently, and kept their mouths shut for the previous two years. I wish they would have spoke up the instant this happened and walked off the job immediately.

    BuDuh (4f5f65)

  165. @162. He’s lucky. He got home. And was maybe only spat on.

    But if he believes in 2020 he wasn’t suckered by MacNamara,LBJ and Nixon at his age, that’s all the more tragic.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  166. 165. He was drafted. Wanna try again?

    Gryph (f63000)

  167. And before you ask, the only reason my father was not in Vietnam is because he was blind in one eye from birth due to congenital glaucoma.

    Gryph (f63000)

  168. @156. Paul, this was settled last cycle. Tens of millions of voters gave him a pass on McCain. Last cycles tactics won’t stop him.

    A strong challenger would.

    Biden is not that.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  169. 164. If they were truly men of honor at all, ever, they’d speak up now, let their names be known, and take whatever licks they have coming for it.

    Gryph (f63000)

  170. 156. More unnamed sources. *YAWN*

    The whistleblower on the Trump-Zelensky call is unnamed, as were numerous other sources, yet it is an unalterable fact that he unpatriotically and un-Americanly solicited a foreign government to help him beat down Biden.
    If it were just from one publication, it could be yawned off, but not when multiple media outlets (now at four) are reporting the same or similar things. Trump said it, and he’s a detestable a$$hole for saying it.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  171. But the men that judge these character flaws, and truly understand and revere the American Soldiers, are cloaked in anonymity presently, and kept their mouths shut for the previous two years. I wish they would have spoke up the instant this happened and walked off the job immediately.

    BuDuh (4f5f65) — 9/4/2020 @ 3:29 pm

    A lot of people have. I don’t think we’ve ever had a world leader with so many members of his own administration, in and out of the military, blow the whistle and tell us not to trust him. Can the military be specific about things, like why a helicopter doesn’t do this in bad weather? It’s very debatable and perilous to make that decision based on personal interest.

    But Trump’s been condemned by more elder statemen, more leaders of his own party, more members of his own administration, more of his own family, than any leader we’ve ever seen that I can think of.

    To a Trump fan, this simply didn’t happen. Pretend. All critics of Trump are fake news. anonymous. Unverified. Doubt reality. this talking point spread consistently from the same folks it always does.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  172. Story’s looking solid.

    Patterico (97e6be)

  173. @156. Paul, this was settled last cycle. Tens of millions of voters gave him a pass on McCain. Last cycles tactics won’t stop him.

    No, it’s not settled. This isn’t about McCain. Or Biden.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  174. @166. So? Clinton didn’t go; Trump didn’t go; Biden didn’t go. Plenty of people got around the draft, burned their draft cards and didn’t go — and went to Canada instead– and were pardoned by President Carter.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  175. 172. If by “solid,” you mean corroborated by a bunch of “unnamed sources.” That’s not how I define “solid.”

    170. The same media that conservatives routinely mistrust when they disagree with it. Like I said upthread, I’m not saying that Trump didn’t say these things. I’m saying that “unnamed sources” carry no credibility with me. That doesn’t change just because The Atlantic somehow managed to scoop a two-year-old story that everyone else is chasing after to follow up on.

    Gryph (f63000)

  176. @173. It is. It didn’t matter in 2015/16. It won’t in 2020- especially w/old Joe Biden carrying the ball.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  177. 174. Clinton and Trump were draft dodgers. My dad wasn’t. I dunno about Biden. But I digress: you would get eaten alive for disrespecting my dad’s friend in person. Keep up the smarm, DC.

    Gryph (f63000)

  178. @173. The question you should be asking is WHY this guy will likely win again?

    Why? How did it come to this guy being CIC?

    Because in this era, Americans don’t want to be governed; they wish to be entertained.

    ‘No miracle is coming’ is not an entertaining teaser– or ratings grabber.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  179. @177. You just don’t get it, G.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  180. 178. Those of us who think Trump is a low-life scumbucket are going to get it the hardest will be the only ones who truly understand how badly we’re being shafted. I guess it’s a good thing we’re in the minority, huh?

    Gryph (f63000)

  181. 179. No, I do. I understand it better than most of my generation. It was the politicians who screwed up in ‘Nam. And it was our soldiers who paid the price, sometimes even the ultimate price. That doesn’t make the soldiers suckers. That’s all too easy to say in hindsight since there was no way to know while the war was ongoing that the draft dodgers would end up pardoned. Dad had a couple of buddies who never made it back home and I’m not about to minimize their sacrifice, even if they did die to satisfy the whims of a bunch of bureaucrats.

    Gryph (f63000)

  182. The only American alive who could beat Donald Trump at his own game is… Oprah Winfrey.

    And she’s no sucker to give up her lifestyle.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  183. ‘No miracle is coming’ is not an entertaining teaser– or ratings grabber.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/4/2020 @ 3:45 pm

    If you’re utterly unsympathetic, and refuse to see a thing in a way that isn’t insanely bitter about Biden, sure.

    But it’s pretty inspiring to be told we’re headed into a bad period, no miracle is coming, but we can overcome it together. It’s pretty basic leadership to have people live up to expectations instead of promising them things that can’t be. And of course this will pass, we will overcome it, and that will be a story people talk about for a long time. For entertainment even.

    Trump is entertaining to some folks who like reality shows and hate black people, but honestly the act is stale. All of this stuff is the same stuff. Gryph’s right. this post about Trump represents a re-run. That’s boring. Maybe not to you… you like reruns and shows I never even heard of.

    I think you’re right Trump will win. How do you beat someone with absolute power, who is above the law, and is cheating at the election? Maybe if Biden is 20 points ahead he wins. Maybe.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  184. That doesn’t make the soldiers suckers

    You don’t get it: MacNamara, LBJ and Nixon did.

    And they knew it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  185. 184. They knew that the soldiers were suckers? Any time you want me to introduce you to someone who served, let me know. I can arrange it.

    Gryph (f63000)

  186. Dustin and Gryph,

    I can’t begin to fathom your predictions that Trump will win. Like I said on another thread, Trump is even losing Mormon votes. The ship is going down.

    norcal (a5428a)

  187. @183. No, Dustin; Ii’s not really an issue of support or non-support- or trying to convince anybody of anything one way or the other. It’s just a matter of general observation.

    Would you let Biden drive a bus, pilot a plane, conduct surgery- or access the nuclear codes? Did you see him today? It’s frightening that someone his age, displaying those disturbing characteristics now has risen to the point where he’d be even considered for the CIC gig.

    Each day he gets older–and time has not been his friend.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  188. @185. Read The Pentagon Papers.

    Then weep.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  189. 181. Gryph (f63000) — 9/4/2020 @ 3:49 pm

    That’s all too easy to say in hindsight since there was no way to know while the war was ongoing that the draft dodgers would end up pardoned.

    Why should anyone have doubted it? They were more or less pardoned in every other war the United states had in which there was a draft. Even Ford did it before Jimmy Carter did.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  190. I can’t begin to fathom your predictions that Trump will win. Like I said on another thread, Trump is even losing Mormon votes. The ship is going down.

    norcal (a5428a) — 9/4/2020 @ 3:55 pm

    I hope in a few months you are telling me you told me so. I think Trump is simply more powerful than previous presidents who were in some way constrained by laws and even political support, in a way Trump isn’t.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  191. @166. So? Clinton didn’t go; Trump didn’t go; Biden didn’t go. Plenty of people got around the draft, burned their draft cards and didn’t go — and went to Canada instead– and were pardoned by President Carter.

    Please point out where Biden, or Clinton, or any other president, dog catcher, 12 year old American said anything like this? He wasn’t just crap talking Vietnam, he was denigrating the service of every single veteran, every one. Me, your parent, your grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, neighbors, friends…EVERY ONE.

    None of this is new. You can listen to the Omarosa recordings of him making light of the soldiers killed in the Tonga Tonga incident, the Khan’s, McCain. Again, none of this is new news. Trump is a human skid mark.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  192. Would you let Biden drive a bus, pilot a plane, conduct surgery- or access the nuclear codes? Did you see him today?

    I did not see him today but I know he’s old. I know he’s not impressive.

    To answer your question, I would select Biden over Trump to host a TV show, run a casino, or purchase real estate. I would obviously pick him over Trump to do anything relating to operating machinery. Trump is so emotional that he gets overwhelmed with rage when he encounters things like memorials to veterans. He would get road ragey in a heartbeat!

    I doubt Biden will use any nuclear codes, but we need to change them now, since Trump gave them all to Putin along with everything else he could get his hands on.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  193. @173. The question you should be asking is WHY this guy will likely win again?

    I get your schtick, DCSCA, I just don’t agree with it, hardly any of it, especially all the focus on Biden’s plagiarism and your tacit acceptance of Trump’s behavior.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  194. @172

    Story’s looking solid.

    Patterico (97e6be) — 9/4/2020 @ 3:35 pm

    Still more named former administration who’s refuted this story than the anonymous.

    whembly (c30c83)

  195. 186. I don’t care how hard the Lincoln Project pushes, or how much money those half-wits spend. There just isn’t the enthusiasm for Biden that there is for Trump. Now, what percentage of Trump voters is actually enthusiastic about him, is another question entirely and one that I don’t think can really be answered by polling. But that’s just the way I see things. Time will tell if I’m right.

    Gryph (f63000)

  196. I get your schtick, DCSCA, I just don’t agree with it, hardly any of it, especially all the focus on Biden’s plagiarism and your tacit acceptance of Trump’s behavior.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  197. 188. I know what the Pentagon papers say! And I reject your notion that draftees were somehow “suckers” for doing their duty and not breaking the law.

    Gryph (f63000)

  198. Trump viciously slandered General Kelly in a news conference today, basically daring him to go on the record.

    For the sake of his son’s honor, I hope he does.

    Dave (1bb933)

  199. Sheesh, these “losers and suckers” at Fort Hood should put in for a transfer to somewhere safe, like Afghanistan…

    ANOTHER Fort Hood soldier DIES after collapsing during training exercise becoming the 28th death at the base this year

    Dave (1bb933)

  200. @192. Apparently you’ve never seen or heard Biden angry.

    It’s easy to get his Irish up.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  201. For the sake of his son’s honor, I hope he does.

    Has Kelly ever worn him on his sleeve like Biden does w/Beau?

    Don’t think so.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  202. @193. Why did he win?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  203. @196. Why did he win?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  204. Trump is a human skid mark.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 9/4/2020 @ 4:02 pm

    That’s an insult to skid marks. You owe my dirty underwear an apology, Colonel, sir.

    Gryph (f63000)

  205. Calling Trump a “human” anything assumes facts not in evidence.

    Dave (1bb933)

  206. Trump viciously slandered General Kelly in a news conference today, basically daring him to go on the record.

    For the sake of his son’s honor, I hope he does.

    Dave (1bb933) — 9/4/2020 @ 4:45 pm

    The funny thing is, if you think about it, Trump revealed something.

    He wouldn’t know who the source was if it wasn’t something he remembered saying in front of Kelly, I’m guessing. I can see Trump being passive aggressive about military service to his staff who make Trump question himself. Draft dodgers are often really petty towards veterans.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  207. Draft dodgers are often really petty towards veterans.

    Dustin (825e2c) — 9/4/2020 @ 5:11 pm

    Supposedly, in Bill Clinton’s administration, even the guy carrying the nuclear football for him (a top honor for White House military advisors) didn’t want the job because Clinton actively avoided his military staffers and otherwise treated them with open contempt, as did Hillary and Chelsea.

    Gryph (f63000)

  208. @193. Why did he win?

    For reasons much less simplistic than what you’re implying.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  209. @208. There’s no hidden implications- if it’s so simplistic– share:

    why did he win?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  210. @197. ‘Into the valley of death rode the six hundred…’

    They were suckers, too.

    LBJ, MacNamara and Nixon knew.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  211. Those of us who think Trump is a low-life scumbucket are going to get it the hardest will be the only ones who truly understand how badly we’re being shafted.

    More like tooled.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  212. Why did he win?

    I think this should be the title of the textbook describing this period in history.

    But I can tell you one thing. Trump didn’t win because a majority of American voters wanted him to be the president. That isn’t the reason.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  213. 210. They knew what? Go ahead and say it. What did the Pentagon papers reveal? You tell us, since your opinion of those “suckers” who got drafted and went seems to be so low.

    Gryph (f63000)

  214. Important update on “credible sources”:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/232572505238433794

    Davethulhu (4c5c2a)

  215. @213/ HRC quilled one: What Happened.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  216. Soviet agents were maligning the U.S. military back then, why should they stop now because Putin is in charge and not Brezhnev?

    nk (1d9030)

  217. why did he win?

    You tell me. Apparently, you have a dazzling answer.
    Far as I’m concerned, this was debated years ago, and I’m not going to re-litigate history. There are lots of reasons, any one of which could have changed the outcome had things been gone differently.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  218. mr. president donald trump, who had three chances to be a Bond Girl if only he could have butched up a little, only has a use for soldiers as political props

    didn’t he recently have to pay a $2 million fine for it?

    nk (1d9030)

  219. Reading between the lines, White House officials are more or less agreeing that Trump said what he said, so they’re spinning that he didn’t really mean it and he was just being an a$$hole. I would call it additional confirmation that the Goldberg story is accurate.
    I think Trump’s political advisors are concluding that it’s a losing proposition to denigrate American military members but it’s not so bad to say that Trump is an a$$hole. Lots of presidents were a$$holes, but they were a$$holes for America! The sad part is that the GOP is so in the bag for Trump that we are now the Party of A$$holes. Or Party of Cruelty, depending on the day or hour.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  220. 220. White House Officials, huh? Care to tell me who went on the record? Or did anyone actually go on the record?

    Gryph (f63000)

  221. 220. I noticed that your link came from the Daily Beast. A reliable resource for all things Trump./

    Gryph (f63000)

  222. 220. I noticed that your link came from the Daily Beast.

    Ad hom fallacy noted. Who knew that eleven sources is still not enough…

    In The Daily Beast’s interviews with eleven senior administration officials, Trump aides, Republican operatives, and former and current friends of the president, several of them mounted a curious defense of Trump.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  223. I have a question: did the parades Trump gave us feature any wounded veterans? That would put the lie to part of the story quick.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  224. Bolton says it’s BS, and really can you imagine anything that derogatory about Trump staying quiet this long? This is the kind of bad reporting that lets Trump deny things that ARE true.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  225. I have a question: did the parades Trump gave us feature any wounded veterans? That would put the lie to part of the story quick.

    If Joe had done so, he would have asked them to “stand up!”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  226. Bolton says it’s BS, and really can you imagine anything that derogatory about Trump staying quiet this long? This is the kind of bad reporting that lets Trump deny things that ARE true.

    Actually, Bolton just said that he didn’t hear Trump say it, not that Trump didn’t say it. He also specifically said he wouldn’t be surprised.

    “I didn’t hear him say those things,” he said. “Now, did he say those things to other people later in the day? It’s certainly possible.”

    “I have not heard anybody say, ‘Oh, that doesn’t sound like the Donald Trump I know,’” Bolton said, adding that the president’s disdain might have stemmed from his position on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    “He was prone to say from time to time: ‘What did they get out of it? What was the worth of the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan?’” Bolton said. “That is a kind of insensitivity that Trump does have. There’s no doubt about it.

    Remember, at the G7 in France was where Bolton decided to quit.

    BOLTON: Well — you know, the last straw is the wrong thing to look at. But I do think the last straw was the handling of the Afghanistan negotiations, the negotiations with the Taliban and the decision to bring Taliban to Camp David.

    And it was — you know, we were down to the point where — I had almost resigned — just before that when we were at the G-7 meeting in — France. And so what actually precipitated the decision — really is the least significant. It was the accumulation of the weight of the evidence over the 17-month period.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  227. 225,

    Right:

    Trump has been, for the duration of his presidency, fixated on staging military parades, but only of a certain sort. In a 2018 White House planning meeting for such an event, Trump asked his staff not to include wounded veterans, on grounds that spectators would feel uncomfortable in the presence of amputees. “Nobody wants to see that,” he said.

    Dana (292df6)

  228. Here is the entire 8 hours of the 4th of July parade in DC and the later look-at-my-tiny-hands-and-big-planes-2019 fest, feel free to scrub through it to find a wounded warrior.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  229. did the parades Trump gave us feature any wounded veterans?

    I haven’t found a list of featured guests for Trump parades. I did find this from 2018:

    President Trump Welcomes America’s Wounded Warriors to the White House

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA6Xtg2hfP

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/president-trump-welcomes-americas-wounded-warriors-white-house/

    BuDuh (3c72fb)

  230. I just heard the news about Serbia and Kosovo normalizing economic relations. This could lead to a lot of healing and relief from suffering for those two peoples. How long have they been stuck in a deadlock and kept there by entrenched political minds!

    felipe (023cc9)

  231. I just heard the news about Serbia and Kosovo normalizing economic relations. This could lead to a lot of healing and relief from suffering for those two peoples. How long have they been stuck in a deadlock and kept there by entrenched political minds!

    felipe (023cc9) — 9/4/2020 @ 8:55 pm

    I wonder how much the hard times of the year have softened hearts a bit.

    Dustin (825e2c)

  232. The word is landlocked. Serbia that is. Kosovo cut off its last access to Greece, and Montenegro’s secession its access to the Adriatic.

    nk (1d9030)

  233. I wonder, about that, too Dustin. What changed?

    Landlocked, right. I hadn’t considered all the ramifications of that, nk.

    felipe (023cc9)

  234. How long have they been stuck in a deadlock and kept there by entrenched political minds!

    Just a little over 200 years, since the Ottoman Empire granted the Serbs semi-autonomy under the Karađorđevićes. It’s a very complicated history, involving revolt by, and the extermination of, the legendary Janissaries, a lot of wars, and a lot of bloodshed.

    nk (1d9030)

  235. My grandfather fought in a couple of those wars, first against the Turks and then against the Bulgarians.

    nk (1d9030)

  236. @239 With the actions of the Turks over the last couple of years, I’m starting to think we are hearing some echos of the Ottomans.

    Nic (896fdf)

  237. They were fine as simple, ordinary, bandits on horseback from the Mongolian steppes. It was contact with the over-civilized Persians that ruined them, like it had ruined the Arabs before them. 😉

    nk (1d9030)

  238. 🥂

    Dustin (825e2c)

  239. Boris Johnson’s great-grandfather was one of the last of the Ottomans under the Sultanate. If you want to look for historical quirks, you can look at two of our World War I enemies, Germany and Turkey, and how their descendants now govern both the United States and the United Kingdom. 😉

    nk (1d9030)

  240. It will be interesting to see how Biden deals with Trump banning Critical Race Theory training and forced confessions of racism from government agencies and contractors.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/09/04/white-house-racial-sensitivity-training

    Biden’s in a pickle here.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  241. @245. Biden’s in a pickle here.

    He has certainly seems to have been sucking on a dill or three before he goes on camera. A more puckered sour puss hasn’t been lensed since Coolidge.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  242. Bets that “critical race theory” training doesn’t exist and that the government gets the same standard,”don’t say racist shtuff” that everyone else gets.

    Nic (896fdf)

  243. Biden’s in a pickle here.

    Trump is running to be Jeff Davis’s successor.

    Biden’s not.

    Slavery happened. Jim Crow happened. The KKK happened. Segregation happened. The people who don’t see any of that as a problem already have their MAGA hats.

    Most Americans understand that the country fell short of its ideals, and that we are still dealing with the consequences of that.

    Slavery existed for almost 250 years. Segregation and de jure racism continued for another 100 years after that. It is only in the last 50 years or so that the principle of legal equality for blacks has been enforced with any consistency.

    Dave (1bb933)

  244. Every Trump spit bubble puts Biden in a pickle according to some people. All Biden needs to say, if anything at all, is “Hail Mary appeal to racism, two months before the election, by Mr. President Donald Trump who thinks Klansmen are fine people. Where has he been the last three and two-thirds years?”

    nk (1d9030)

  245. Oh, my!

    Donald Trump demands Fox reporter Jennifer Griffin is fired after she confirmed he called US servicemen ‘suckers’ – as Melania backs him up and says ‘This is not journalism, this is activism’

    nk (1d9030)

  246. Say what you want about the Daily Mail — really, I mean it, say what you want — but it knows how to round out a story.

    nk (1d9030)

  247. “Critical Race Theory” = intolerable!

    QAnon loony-toons and “White Power!” videos = no problem!

    Dave (1bb933)

  248. Remember that stupid smithsonian exhibit, this is whats entailed in the training.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  249. Stop stepping in the accelerator, youre not sam beckett

    https://the-pipeline.org/something-wicked-this-way-comes/

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  250. Zo …are zese poor opprezzed brainvazhed fictimz part of ze Deep Shtate Coup oder are zey zomebody elze?

    nk (1d9030)

  251. So now that richard spencer is on slo jos team, any thoughts.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  252. Critical race theory was what obama was lecturing at in u chicago, reading from the book of derrick bell, volume 1

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  253. So now that richard spencer is on slo jos team, any thoughts.

    Richard Spencer is on Biden’s team, the way DCSCA is in Melania’s harem, and you know it. Spencer fake-endorsed Biden and Biden told him to go suck a swastika. You know it! YOU KNOW IT!

    nk (1d9030)

  254. Seen on the Twitter
    Lincoln Project: Blink twice if you’re in danger.
    Melania Trump (and best read with heavy Slavic accent): .@TheAtlantic story is not true. It has become a very dangerous time when anonymous sources are believed above all else, & no one knows their motivation. This is not journalism – It is activism. And it is a disservice to the people of our great nation.

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  255. Say what you want about the Daily Mail—really, I mean it, say what you want —

    Okay then:

    1. If I hear about some big disaster — a bridge collapse in Italy, or a landslide in Washington State — there’s a good chance I’ll find pictures in the Daily Mail.

    2. I would be much more ignorant about popular culture if not for my perusal of the Daily Mail from time to time.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  256. Another video:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dOBXjE0kMaU

    After taking a photo with one of the wounded warriors, he probably turned to one of his aides and said “nobody wants to see that? Why are you making me take a picture with such a loser?”

    Sorry, no sensible person is buying that propaganda bullshit that he respects wounded warriors.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  257. Oh, my!

    Donald Trump demands Fox reporter Jennifer Griffin is fired after she confirmed he called US servicemen ‘suckers’ – as Melania backs him up and says ‘This is not journalism, this is activism’

    Patterico (115b1f)

  258. Patterico (115b1f)

  259. 261. “Probably.” That’s an interesting choice of words. You don’t know that it happened, but pure speculation on your part. SMDH

    Gryph (f63000)

  260. Yeah, probably. We’re talking about integrity, we’re talking about character, we’re talking about … hell, Gryph, I ain’t afraid to say the word … ethics. Of which Trump ain’t got none.

    nk (1d9030)

  261. PATTON LABELS TROOPS ‘DUMB BASTARDS’

    Oh my… what today’s interweb weenies could do with that.

    And, it’s not just a line from the 1970 film: it is true. Confirmed by troops assembled at the time and on the record by Lt. General George Gavin:

    ‘The earliest published evidence known to QI appeared in the 1958 book “War and Peace in the Space Age” by Lt. General James M. Gavin. The author stated that he and other military personnel heard an address by Patton shortly before leaving Africa in 1943. Boldface has been added to excerpts:

    “George Patton’s last words to us before we left Africa came home with meaning: ‘No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country.’”

    The speech was not publicized contemporaneously because of war time restrictions on information and because it contained language that was considered coarse for the era. Patton delivered many speeches during the war and some of the soldiers who heard his words recounted them in the following years. Unsurprisingly, the precise phrasing of the quotation under examination varied in these accounts.

    [T]he speech [was] delivered on 31 May 1944, while addressing the U.S. 6th Armored Division, when he began with a remark that would later be among his most famous: “No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.”‘

    And how is this for irony: “In 1965 James M. Gavin published an article in “The Atlantic” magazine about his wartime experiences.” – sources, quoteinvestigator/com & wikiPattonthirdarmyspeech

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  262. Patton was a cavalry officer, when the cavalry still rode horses and used swords in battle. (He even updated the cavalry sword with his own design, the “Patton sword”.) He wore real spurs into battle, not bone spur into 42nd Street leather bars. You finish the thought.

    nk (1d9030)

  263. @267. “Our blood- his guts.” 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  264. 266. He said a lot worse than that, to and about his own troops. The harsh words he was known for were just the printable ones.

    Gryph (f63000)

  265. He wasn’t always in a command tent. He put his blood and guts on the line as he rose through the ranks:

    Patton first saw combat during 1916’s Pancho Villa Expedition, America’s first military action using motor vehicles. He saw action in World War I as part of the new United States Tank Corps of the American Expeditionary Forces: he commanded the U.S. tank school in France, then led tanks into combat and was wounded near the end of the war.

    nk (1d9030)

  266. @265 – speculation based on a general pattern of public words and actions by Trump, along with many reports of how he really is in private — i.e., not any better.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  267. He saw action in World War I as part of the new United States Tank Corps of the American Expeditionary Forces: he commanded the U.S. tank school in France, then led tanks into combat and was wounded near the end of the war.

    But he didn’t make any money.

    I don’t get it.

    Dave (1bb933)

  268. @267/269/270

    “There are scholar presidents, and presidents who don’t read much, and then there is President-elect Donald Trump, who has said he has no time for books at all. But he does enjoy a few historically themed movies—one of which is Patton, George C. Scott’s 1970 embodiment of the World War II general. Patton is one of the very few role models Trump held up during his campaign; he frequently rued the fact that the military lacked modern-day Pattons, and when he picked retired Marine Gen. James Mattis as his defense secretary, Trump proclaimed Mattis “the closest thing we have to Gen. George Patton.” -source, politico, 12/26/2016

    Oh my.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  269. @272. See 273.

    Get it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  270. AG Barr, the weaselly sumbitch on mail-in fraud in TX.

    “Elections that have been held with mail have found substantial fraud and coercion,” Barr told CNN on Wednesday. “For example, we indicted someone in Texas, 1,700 ballots collected, he — from people who could vote, he made them out and voted for the person he wanted to. Okay?”
    Federal prosecutors brought no such indictment. And while a Justice Department spokeswoman said Barr was referring to a local prosecution involving suspected mail-in voting fraud in a city council election, the assistant district attorney on that case said Barr’s description doesn’t match the facts.
    “That’s not what happened at all,” said Andy Chatham, who is now in private practice.

    These involved absentee ballots, the kind that I thought Trump preferred. The Twitter thread by Mr. Savage well summarizes Barr’s veracity.

    This WP story about how Bill Barr confidently, even pugnaciously, told CNN viewers about a massive mail-in ballots fraud incident in Texas that never happened, is a reminder of some other things like that. /1
    Like that time in July when he said a surge of federal agents sent to Kansas City had made 200 arrests in two weeks, which was false. /2
    Like that time in June when he told the public that the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, Geoffrey Berman, had resigned, which was false. /3
    Like that time in April when he told Fox News that an inspector general Trump had fired, Michael Atkinson, tried to send the Ukraine whistleblower complaint to Congress without exec branch review and ignored DOJ, which was false. /4
    That same time in April he also told Fox News that the FBI had opened its 2016 investigation into whether Trump campaign officials were coordinating with Russia’s election interference “without any basis,” which was false. /5
    And of course there was his description to the public of the then-still secret Mueller investigation report, which a federal judge said was so “distorted” and “misleading” that the judiciary could not trust his DOJ to be candid on that topic. /6

    Paul Montagu (a2078e)

  271. Still hard core there Patterico?

    Comanche Voter (ec29d0)

  272. Ain’t no dumb bastard ever got hired by Trump to tell the truth. It’s the bastard willing to lie for Trump that gets hired by Trump.

    nk (1d9030)

  273. 277. Speaking of dumb bastards:

    BIDEN GOT 5 DRAFT DEFERMENTS DURING NAM, AS DID CHENEY
    By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS – August 31, 2008

    DOVER, Del. – Democratic vice presidential nominee Joe Biden received five student draft deferments during the Vietnam War, the same number of deferments received by Vice President Dick Cheney, and later was disqualified from service because of asthma that he suffered as a teenager.

    Officials with Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama’s campaign released Biden’s Selective Service records at the request of The Associated Press. Less detailed records were available from a National Archives facility in Philadelphia.

    According to the documents, Biden, [then] 65, received several deferments while he was an undergraduate at the University of Delaware and later as a law student at Syracuse University. [Now you know why he begged not to get expelled from law school for getting caught committing plagiarism– a grunting he would go!] A month after a physical exam in April 1968, Biden received a Selective Service classification of 1-Y, meaning he was available for service only in the event of national emergency.

    “As a result of a physical exam on April 5, 1968, Joe Biden was classified 1-Y and disqualified from service because of asthma as a teenager,” said David Wade, a campaign spokesman.

    In “Promises to Keep,” a memoir that was published last year [2007], Biden never mentions his asthma, recounting an active childhood, work as a lifeguard and football exploits in high school.

    The Obama campaign pointed to media interviews from 1987, when Biden was making his first bid for the presidency, that mention his asthma.

    Military service and questions about which presidential ticket would be stronger on national security are intertwined in the presidential race. Republican John McCain, a former Navy pilot who spent 5 1/2 years in a Vietnamese prison, has argued that he has stronger background to be commander in chief. Democratic nominee Obama counters that McCain would continue a wrongheaded foreign policy from the Bush administration.

    Biden’s five student deferments equal the number given to Cheney, who has been quoted as saying he had “other priorities” than military service in the 1960s.

    “Who does he think he is?!” – Plagiarist JoeyBee 9/4/2020

    Idiot.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  274. And? 5 deferments and disqualified for asthma that we’ve known Biden has had for 50 years? Are you saying he doesn’t have asthma, didn’t get a valid deferment? Are you trying to say something that means anything, be specific.

    Idiot

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  275. @279. No- he’s an idiot for going there.

    Don’t be so hard on yourself.

    “Klink! You boob!” -General Burkhlalter [Leon Askin] ‘Hogan’s Heroes’ CBS TV, 1965-1971

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  276. Also, How many deferments did Trump get? Hmm, wait, carry the one…5, it was 5.

    By the way, Donnie 4F claimed that it was for a temporary condition, bone spurs, not temporary.

    4F

    Registrant not acceptable for military service. To be eligible for Class 4-F, a registrant must have been found not qualified for service in the Armed Forces by a Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS) under the established physical, mental, or moral standards.

    This the draft board knew in 1972.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  277. 193. Dustin (825e2c) — 9/4/2020 @ 4:07 pm

    I doubt Biden will use any nuclear codes, but we need to change them now, since Trump gave them all to Putin along with everything else he could get his hands on.

    The codes change every day! Or more often.

    And the only thing Putin (or China or North Korea) might possibly want to do is disable the system. The codes are not enough to launch anything

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  278. 244. nk (1d9030) — 9/4/2020 @ 10:17 pm

    their descendants now govern both the United States and the United Kingdom.

    Donald Trump’s grandfather was expelled from Germany in 1905 for having evaded the draft.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Trump

    Several years later, in 1891, he moved to the Northwest. He made his fortune by operating a restaurant and a brothel in Canada.[1][2] He later returned to Kallstadt and married Elisabeth Christ. As he had emigrated without fulfilling mandatory military service, Bavarian authorities stripped him of his Bavarian citizenship. Trump and his family returned to the United States. He became a U.S. citizen in 1892….In 1885, at age 16, Trump immigrated via Bremen, Germany, to the United States aboard the steamship Eider, departing on October 7[3]:32 and arriving at the Castle Garden Emigrant Landing Depot in New York City on October 19. As he had not yet served the mandatory military duty of two years in the Kingdom of Bavaria, this emigration was illegal under Bavarian law..[11] U.S. immigration records list his name as “Friedr. Trumpf” and his occupation as “none”….Trump returned to Kallstadt in 1901 as a wealthy man. Biographer Blair said that “the business of seeing to his customers’ need for food, drink and female companionship had been good to him.”[3]:94 He quickly met and proposed to Elisabeth Christ (1880–1966), the daughter of a former neighbor; she was eleven years younger than Trump.[17][18] Trump’s mother disapproved of Christ because she considered her family to be of a lower social class. Trump and Christ married on August 26, 1902, and moved to New York City….Their daughter Elizabeth was born on April 30, 1904. In May 1904, when Trump applied in New York for a U.S. passport to travel with his wife and his daughter, he listed his profession as “hotelkeeper”.[19] Due to Elizabeth Sr.’s extreme homesickness, the family returned to Germany later that year.[3]:96 In Germany, Trump deposited into a bank his life’s savings of 80,000 mark, equivalent to $538,245 in 2019.[3]

    Soon after the family arrived in Germany, Bavarian authorities determined that Trump had emigrated from Germany to avoid his military-service obligations, anhe was classified as a draft dodger.[3]:98 On 24 December 1904 the Department of Interior announced an investigation to banish Trump from Germany. Officially, they found that he had violated the Resolution of the Royal Ministry of the Interior number 9916, an 1886 law that punished emigration to North America to avoid military service with the loss of Bavarian and thus German citizenship.[3]:99 In February 1905, a royal decree was issued ordering Trump to leave within eight weeks due to having emigrated to evade military service and failing to register his departure with the authorities.[20] For several months, Trump petitioned the government to allow him to stay but he was unsuccessful.[3]:100

    He and his family returned to New York on 30 June 1905.[3]:102 Their son Fred was born on 11 October 1905, in the Bronx, New York.[3]:110 The family lived at 539 East 177th Street. In 1907, their second son, John, was born. Later that year the family moved to Woodhaven, Queens…The family story of his death is that “on May 29, 1918, while walking with his son Fred, Trump suddenly felt extremely sick and was rushed to bed. The next day, he was dead. What was first diagnosed as pneumonia turned out to be one of the early cases of the Spanish flu, which caused millions of deaths around the world.[3]:116” At his death his net holdings included a 2-story, 7-room home in Queens; 5 vacant lots; $4,000 in savings; $3,600 in stocks; and 14 mortgages. Altogether his net worth was $31,359 ($588,207.86 in 2020 dollars).[3]:118 His wife and son Fred continued his real estate projects under the Elizabeth Trump & Son moniker.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  279. Nancy French on Twitter:

    Trump on Access Hollywood: ‘I grab women by the genitals.’

    Actual woman: ‘He grabbed me by the genitals!’

    MAGA: he would NEVER do that, where’s proof?

    Trump into mic: I don’t like POWS.

    The Atlantic: Trump insulted the military.

    MAGA: he would NEVER do that, where’s proof?

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  280. https://hotair.com/archives/ed-morrissey/2020/09/08/bolton-no-really-atlantic-hit-trump-simply-false/

    People loved cheering Bolton when he was trashing Trump in his book. Now he’s calling out these lies. What say you?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  281. I believe John Bolton did not hear Trump disparage the military when they were in France. That doesn’t mean Trump never said those things when Bolton wasn’t present or other times. Bolton and the world know Trump has repeatedly disparaged McCain and his service.

    DRJ (aede82)

  282. DRJ,

    Trump repeatedly disparages those who attack him. Shocking, I know. He goes after political adversaries, not the rank and file. I would not be surprised if he called individual generals names. That’s different than what was alleged and this claim is falling apart.

    On to the next squirrel.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  283. Bolton also dislikes how Trump disparages military generals.

    DRJ (aede82)

  284. The military isn’t his opponent or enemy.

    DRJ (aede82)

  285. He disparages his own appointees. He can’t stop himself from demonizing everyone. Eventually his only pal will be Putin.

    DRJ (aede82)

  286. So like anita hill and the exorcist

    https://mobile.twitter.com/SeekerOTL/status/1303062174454165505

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  287. Trump disparaging McCain and his service is nowhere near the allegations perpetuated by the anonymous sources.

    McCain and Trump never got along and as such, with Trump, everything is fair game. Frankly both of them are assholes to each other.

    whembly (2e3fb6)

  288. DRJ,

    you’re moving the goalposts. You know that, right?

    It’s similar to Dan Rather’s “fake, but accurate” claim.

    It’s fine to dislike Trump personally. There’s a lot to dislike. But that doesn’t mean every political hit job done on him is true and then when proven false, you disparage him in a different way. That’s not fair.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  289. After 19 years, we gave up the ghost in haiti, and its as if we had never beem there.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  290. Nothing in the Atlantic story has been disproved. Not one one little itsy-bitsy bit of it. On the contrary, it has only been further corroborated.

    It’s only Trumpkins saying it has been disproved, and accusing people of “moving the goalposts” when they show course of conduct and similar prior acts in corroboration and aggravation.

    nk (1d9030)

  291. Nk,

    thanks for proving my point. Carry on.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  292. There was no story, in fact the foia requests should have put an end to it, but like steeles rolling game of telephone..

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  293. The alleged rationale in that Atlantic story for that canceled cemetery visit WAS disapproven nk.

    Well over 20 named folks dispute it.

    As such, because *this* was disproven, that casts a HUGH shadow of doubt for the rest of Goldberg’s story, as well as both his and his anonymous sources’ credibility has taken a shot.

    whembly (2e3fb6)

  294. Trump cultists remind me so much of a campus Maoist who buttonholed me in 1976-1977. He told me that China was real Communism and that the Soviet Union was a military dictatorship. This despite that Mao was a general before he was a politician, remained in charge of all the armed forces, and the People’s Liberation Army owned all the factories in China.

    nk (1d9030)

  295. You are right to call attention to Trumpalo who White Knight him in all things Trump…

    But, don’t turn a blind eye to the last four years of the media’s shredding their own credibility in their zeal to “get Trump”.

    It’s why #FakeNews has legs…

    whembly (537f99)

  296. I believe that Trump did not want the rain to soften his AquaNet and that Melania did not want her stilettos sinking into the wet turf. That only compounds the offense, it does not belie it.

    nk (1d9030)

  297. It’s easy to believe Trump said these things. It’s even easier to believe the press made it up.

    beer ‘n pretzels (77090e)

  298. that’s why the solon is citing mao’s aphorisms ‘you’re grinding metal, you’ve blown the transaxles’

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  299. I believe that Trump did not want the rain to soften his AquaNet and that Melania did not want her stilettos sinking into the wet turf. That only compounds the offense, it does not belie it.

    nk (1d9030) — 9/8/2020 @ 10:56 am

    He went the following day in the rain to another respectful ceremony. It rained.

    NJRob (37860d)

  300. So on a different day he went to a different place…cool story bro, and?

    He also said

    Trump told reporters yesterday that he “called home” to Melania Trump at the time and told her how upset he was for not being able to visit the cemetery. At the time, the White House said he was unable to attend and had to cancel the visit because of bad weather.

    Trump claims he “called home, I spoke to my wife and I said ‘I hate this. I came here to go to that ceremony.’ And to the one that was the following day which I did go to. I said I feel terribly. And that was the end of it.”

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  301. BTW, Melania was with him on the trip, so his deflectionary lie was pretty simple to prove as lie.

    But it’s Trump, if he’s talking, he’s lying.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  302. 302. Yes, that had it precisely backwards, The military was under tight control in the Soviet Union, especially after 1937, while Mainland China can be described as a military dictatorship disguised as a Communist dictatorship disguised as a government with a constitution. The last position Deng Xiaioping retained was in the military.

    It;s true even today:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Jinping

    Xi Jinping (/ʃiː dʒɪnˈpɪŋ/ shee jin-PING; simplified Chinese: 习近平; traditional Chinese: 習近平; born 15 June 1953) is a Chinese politician who has served as General Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party and Chairman of the Central Military Commission (CMC) since 2012, and President of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) since 2013.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)


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