Patterico's Pontifications

8/18/2020

Former DHS Chief of Staff: Trump Tried to Withhold Fire Disaster Funds from California Because It Did Not Vote Trump

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



This is compelling and appalling all at the same time.

100 Responses to “Former DHS Chief of Staff: Trump Tried to Withhold Fire Disaster Funds from California Because It Did Not Vote Trump”

  1. The sad part is that it’s completely unsurprising that Trump prioritizes his personal ambition and political fortunes over the Americans he took an oath to serve. Today’s report from the Senate Intelligence Committee only confirms that it’s pretty much always America second, Trump first.

    Michael Cohen/Russia business deal: The report found that by the end of 2015, Trump’s former personal lawyer had “reached out to the Kremlin directly to solicit the Russian government’s assistance” about building a Trump Tower in Moscow.
    ▪ “Cohen kept Trump updated on the progress of the deal. While these negotiations were ongoing, Trump made positive public comments about Putin in connection with his presidential campaign.” The report found Cohen and Felix Sater, a longtime business associate of Trump, “sought to leverage Trump’s comments, and subsequent comments about Trump by Putin, to advance the deal.”
    ▪ Cohen made contact in January 2016 with a Russian aide to Putin spokesman Dmitri Peskov and reported to Trump that he had done so. Attempts to advance the deal stopped in the summer of 2016.

    Paul Montagu (52bb2d)

  2. Anybody can say anything, you can accuse a three star general of treason and hide the evidence for three years.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  3. Sater who was a long time cia and fbi asset, did they leave that out.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  4. Nor mifsud who was a trainer for intel operations from the gulf to the eastern seaboard.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  5. The minority head of the committee had a go between to assange to the russian foreign ministry and to steele through his former employer deripaska

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  6. Unfortunately, Biden was VP for eight years during which stimulus money was funneled to friendly blue states. And, are we forgetting how Texas and Florida were shafted for disaster aid?

    Even left wing outlets took notice.

    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2011/may/30/todd-staples/agriculture-commissioner-todd-staples-says-obama-a/

    https://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/stateroundup/president-obama-rejects-gov-rick-scotts-plea-for-federal-disaster/2244108/

    https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-texas-obama-idUSN2823276220110429

    beer ‘n pretzels (3e5ae8)

  7. Fact check: True

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    · 46m
    People forget how divided our Country was under ObamaBiden. The anger and hatred were unbelievable. They shouldn’t be lecturing to us. I’m here, as your President, because of them!

    whembly (c30c83)

  8. “Fact check: True”

    President Birther knows a lot about anger and hatred.

    Davethulhu (2202c3)

  9. This is the script they are given, by not at all evil google, but people remember chandler as a dutiful soldier the

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  10. Cry “Obama!” and let loose the squirrels of Trumpdom!

    nk (1d9030)

  11. I didnt think it was a productive angle and i said so at the time,

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  12. My favorite part about the 0bama era is all the racial healing.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  13. Oh, what the heck, Patterico! Let Willie Brown preen a little, the poor old guy. Biden/Harris! America will not survive four more years of Trump, and nobody needs to inhale oleander smoke to prophesy that.

    nk (1d9030)

  14. Projection, the central valley got smoked by the great smelt caper and the ban on cutting underbrush,

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  15. All I know is that we’ll all be better off once this incompetent and corrupt cretin is out of office. Whoever is to follow cannot in any way be worse than Trump.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  16. I was just thinking the exact same thing, Gawain’s Ghost. No one will be a worse President than Trump.

    nk (1d9030)

  17. @15

    History is not on your side, I am afraid. Iran under the Shah was bad, but it is much worse under the Ayatollahs. Ditto the French Revolution.

    As I said before, Trump’s shortcomings are personal. The other side’s shortcomings are ideological. The Democratic party is now dominated by radical leftists that would make classic Democrats run in terror. They are headed by someone who at his best is a panderer and at his worst senile. If even half their changes are enacted, the country will go the way of Venezuela.

    I detest Trump, and wish he would just retire to Mar-A-Lago. (Mike Pence is not a bad guy, not my first choice, but certainly would be an improvement.) But the damage Trump will inflict is minor compared to what the Dems will do.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  18. Different strokes for different folks, the dhs doesnt seem to be doing much with the army of rioters except mimieographing splcs bulletins.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  19. GG and nk seem royally bummed that Scalia was replaced by Gorsuch instead of Garland.

    beer ‘n pretzels (05696d)

  20. Beer N Pretzels,

    Again you’re posting links to articles that don’t support your point. None of these show (or even really claim) that Obama was acting based on political malice. In fact they show that the Obama administration gave a lot of money to Texas and Florida for disaster aid.

    From the Reuters piece

    President Barack Obama declared a state of emergency for Alabama, where storms — including a tornado that ravaged Tuscaloosa on Wednesday — killed nearly 200 people this week.

    “Governor Perry’s request is currently under review, and will continue our close coordination with the state as they work to protect their residents and communities,” FEMA spokeswoman Rachel Racusen said.

    She said Texas has already received 22 grants to help pay fire management expenses this fire season, including 16 in April alone.

    From the Tampa Bay Times

    Besides the appeal on Isaac, Obama has also approved three other Florida disaster declarations since 2011, most recently in May 2014 for severe storms and flooding that besieged the Pensacola area.

    While rare, denial of a governor’s disaster declaration request is not unheard of. Earlier this year, Obama rejected a disaster declaration from Iowa Gov. Terry Branstad, a Republican, who said bird flu was affecting the state’s farming community. It’s not just Republican governors getting rebuffed. Last year, Obama initially denied a disaster declaration from Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie, a Democrat, after his state was hit by Tropical Storm Iselle. It was later granted on an appeal. Similarly, Obama rejected a request from Washington Gov. Jay Inslee, a Democrat, after wildfires ravaged central Washington last year.

    From Politifact

    Staples correctly says that the Obama administration denied Texas’ request for a disaster declaration due to long-burning wildfires: The same administration approved a similar disaster declaration request from Oklahoma in 2009, in response to wildfires that burned for only a few days.

    But the statement leaves out a crucial relevant fact. FEMA has not denied federal aid for the Texas wildfires; it’s approved fire-fighting grants adding up to $23 million — far more than Oklahoma’s approximate $3 million in disaster aid.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  21. So after slo jo, and slutty b got together, still gonna pretend hes a moderate.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  22. Is there anything Trump can’t do?

    Somehow pardoning Susan B Anthony is so controversial, he shouldn’t do it!

    News 8 WROC
    @News_8
    “I was deeply troubled to learn that Trump went ahead and treated her like a criminal,” From the Susan B. Anthony House, the lieutenant governor said they are demanding the president rescind his pardon. #ROC

    whembly (c30c83)

  23. Time123, you left out the part where leftie Politifact rated the claim Mostly True.

    And, anyone can ignore the thrust of the articles (again, from left wing outlets) and cherry pick, as you have.

    beer ‘n pretzels (6aa8d5)

  24. whembly, if i understand their silly argument, they’re saying giving her a pardon makes it appear that she did something wrong. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me either way. Seems like he answered a question no one was asking. Probably hoped that it would create a lot of controversy, get him attention and make his opponents look silly. I can understand the SBA House being interested but for the most part I haven’t seen a lot of conversation about this. AFIAK you and I have now been the most prolific writers on this. But i could be wrong, lots of silly ppl with bylines.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  25. BNP, The thrust of the articles is that there’s a dispute about emergency aid but that the Obama admin has been giving lot of aid. Can you show me where the articles support the claim the denial of aid was politically motivated? I agree Perry and Scott were claiming that, but the articles don’t provide evidence that they’re correct.

    also, i don’t think Reuters is a left wing outlet.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  26. GG and nk seem royally bummed that Scalia was replaced by Gorsuch instead of Garland.

    Nah!
    I asked Putin about that and he said: “I don’t give a borscht.”
    Then I asked Kim Jong Un and he said: “I don’t give a kimchee.”
    Then I asked Xi Jinping and he said: “I don’t give a chow mein.”
    Then I asked Recep Erdogan and he said: “I don’t give a kabob.”
    Then I asked Benjamin Netanyahu and he said: “I don’t give a matzo.”
    Get the picture?

    nk (1d9030)

  27. @24

    whembly, if i understand their silly argument, they’re saying giving her a pardon makes it appear that she did something wrong. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me either way. Seems like he answered a question no one was asking. Probably hoped that it would create a lot of controversy, get him attention and make his opponents look silly. I can understand the SBA House being interested but for the most part I haven’t seen a lot of conversation about this. AFIAK you and I have now been the most prolific writers on this. But i could be wrong, lots of silly ppl with bylines.

    Time123 (c9382b) — 8/18/2020 @ 10:08 am

    She did do some wrong… she broke the law at the time. An unjust law.

    Which is the sort of thing pardons ought to be used on.

    It’s just reflective anti-Trumpism.

    THIS, is how he gets away with other legit problems. Stupid crap like this just flood the airwaves and turns off normal folks who barely/don’t follow politics.

    whembly (c30c83)

  28. we’re facing a guerilla war, funded by a former?? terrorist, and the so called intelligence community is chasing fake russians, and most of the papers are either oblivious or complicit,
    we now what the obama administration did to actively obstruct immigration enforcement, to obscure terrorist attacks on this country,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  29. Firefighter Salary in California – How Much do Firefighters Make In CA?

    https://www.firesciencedegreeschools.com/firefighter-salary-in-califonia/

    ‘The fireman wages in California was $73,860 per annum and $35.51 per hour. The average annual salary of a firefighter, according to indeed.com (as of October 10, 2018) was $50,095, which was 18% above the national average. Firefighters in Los Angeles and San Jose made $114,349 and $61,881, respectively.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  30. Susan B. Anthony is out of Trump’s jurisdiction. Has been since March 13, 1906.

    This is the kind of pointless, meaningless, worthless, useless, talk show value only, nonsense that is emblematic of Trump.

    nk (1d9030)

  31. @27, I agree that’s what he’s trying to do. I’m saying that other than the SBA house I haven’t seen much reaction about this. CNN covered it as a straight news story.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  32. Agreed Bored Lawyer.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  33. History is not on your side, I am afraid. Iran under the Shah was bad, but it is much worse under the Ayatollahs. Ditto the French Revolution.

    It’s pretty telling that after 4 years of Trump he’s not running on his accomplishments, he’s running on the idea that democrats will destroy America more than he has.

    Carter didn’t destroy America, Clinton didn’t destroy America, Obama didn’t destroy America but now Joe Biden is going to? How do you expect anyone to take you seriously.

    Manotaur (0c90cd)

  34. Time123, I missed where Miles Taylor provided evidence.

    beer ‘n pretzels (6aa8d5)

  35. This is one of those things Trump mused about doing (possibly because he thought the reason for giving federal money was political in the first place?) but didn’t actually do.

    And it’s not news (which does not mean it should not be brought up) even if his stated reason was:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-threatens-pull-federal-aid-california-wildfires-n1075866

    President Donald Trump offered a vague threat to pull California’s federal aid for combating dangerous wildfires on Sunday, sparking a response from Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom as the pair traded barbs through the day….

    At the time Trump publicly was blaming the state of California for the wildfires, which is partially true and not of all fires.

    Sammy Finkelman (db2a13)

  36. except they iced 300 mercs in syria, putting a crimp on prigozhins catering biz, sent offensive missiles to ukraine, whereas the last administration sent food rations (I guess hard crackers can serve as a weapons) and we have poland as a major ally, instead of the missile defense, obama stripped from them, how much oleander are you mainlining?

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  37. Trump is the Ayatollah. Just talk to any one of his supporters for just one minute: “To say no to President Trump is to say no to God.” (Look it up.)

    nk (1d9030)

  38. @34, his testimony is the evidence. He’s not under oath, but he’s providing a testimonial to what he personally observed and was told.

    No similar statements are in the articles you linked. In fact, there’s plenty of evidence provided in the articles that claims are exaggerated or unfounded.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  39. @38: Time123, you’re comparing a political ad to (ostensibly) news reports. Don’t be ridiculous.

    beer ‘n pretzels (a36706)

  40. @38

    @34, his testimony is the evidence. He’s not under oath, but he’s providing a testimonial to what he personally observed and was told.

    No similar statements are in the articles you linked. In fact, there’s plenty of evidence provided in the articles that claims are exaggerated or unfounded.

    Time123 (c9382b) — 8/18/2020 @ 10:30 am

    Time… I remember a time you not giving statements like these any benefit of doubt because they weren’t under oath.

    Why are you so willing to believe statements not made under oath? There’s a whole cottage industry of “anonymous” and name folks BS’ing their way to money trough with respect to Trump.

    whembly (c30c83)

  41. https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1083022011574747137?lang=en

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump

    Jan 9, 2019

    Billions of dollars are sent to the State of California for Forest fires that, with proper Forest Management, would never happen. Unless they get their act together, which is unlikely, I have ordered FEMA to send no more money. It is a disgraceful situation in lives & money

    9:25 AM · Jan 9, 2019

    Miles Taylor seems to be claiming that when officials at FEMA argued against that (Q. Did they bring up the idea of political self interest first?) Trump responded by saying California didn’t vote for him and so on.

    Trump had political reasons for taking a stand against California environmental regulations and blaming them for the fires, but they were national political reasons.

    Sammy Finkelman (db2a13)

  42. pre·tex·tu·al
    /prēˈteksCHo͝oəl/
    adjectiveUS•LAW
    constituting a pretext; dubious or spurious.
    “we will show that other arguments that officials have made are plainly pretextual”
    denoting or relating to a minor offense that enables authorities to detain a suspect for investigation of other matters.
    “Ashcroft has justified the use of transparently pretextual charges to hold them”

    nk (1d9030)

  43. Carter didn’t destroy America, Clinton didn’t destroy America, Obama didn’t destroy America but now Joe Biden is going to? How do you expect anyone to take you seriously.

    None of those faced a Democratic party dominated by leftist radicals. Who all really wanted Bernie Sanders, but settled for a half-senile Joe Biden they can manipulate or shove aside (under the 25th Amendment) when he gets into office.

    And I said harm, not destroy. The harm they will inflict, especially if they control both houses of Congress, will in my estimation by an order of magnitude greater than what Trump will do.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  44. like false statements about general flynn’s statements, hidden in transcripts, for 3 years, like pertinent info about carter page, deleted from emails, (ala matt daamon in the departed) denying that mifsud had worked with a dozen intelligence agencies, all around the world,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  45. 45. What sane person gives a hoot about that except as small talk to pass the time?

    nk (1d9030)

  46. 45. What sane person would base his vote for President on that piddly crap?

    nk (1d9030)

  47. None of those faced a Democratic party dominated by leftist radicals. Who all really wanted Bernie Sanders, but settled for a half-senile Joe Biden they can manipulate or shove aside (under the 25th Amendment) when he gets into office.

    so if the Democrats are “dominated” by leftist radicals, and those leftist radicals wanted Bernie Sanders, why didn’t they get him? You’d think that the group who “dominated” the party would get the candidate they wanted.

    To me, it all sounds like fear mongering. Trump is absolutely terrible, blatantly corrupt, and doing massive damage to the country. If Trump isn’t removed, and removed in a landslide, he’s just the tip of the iceberg. If we elect him again after all he’s done we might as well just declare him King, because he’s going to do whatever he wants.

    Manotaur (0c90cd)

  48. Carter purged the intelligence communities, undermined our key allies in the middle east and central america was on the way to doing that in south america, similar to the way obama did in north africa, tunisia, libya, and egypt, tried to with honduras, but there was pushback, there has been lawfare against center right govenments in guatemala, they enabled the left regime in el salvador, which is the quartermaster for the mara salvatrucha, the most vicious gang on the continent,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  49. The existential threat that Trump’s incompetence and self-centeredness poses to our national security is the worst thing about his presidency. I really don’t care if he deals himself in on the side; most politicians are ethically challenged and ethics laws are mostly pretense and/or political weapons.

    Nixon once said that it was necessary for the President to seem a little crazy since no sane person would launch 1000 nuclear missiles. But Trump IS crazy, or so bloody stupid and self-centered that it looks like crazy to everyone else.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  50. “None of those faced a Democratic party dominated by leftist radicals. Who all really wanted Bernie Sanders, but settled for a half-senile Joe Biden they can manipulate or shove aside (under the 25th Amendment) when he gets into office.

    And I said harm, not destroy. The harm they will inflict, especially if they control both houses of Congress, will in my estimation by an order of magnitude greater than what Trump will do.”

    Who are these leftist radicals dominating the Democratic party?

    What harm will they inflict?

    Davethulhu (2202c3)

  51. @50

    The existential threat that Trump’s incompetence and self-centeredness poses to our national security is the worst thing about his presidency.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 8/18/2020 @ 10:55 am

    Are are these (I’m assuming there’s more than one?) existential threats to national security?

    whembly (c30c83)

  52. *What are…

    Sorry, hadn’t had my coffee yet…

    whembly (c30c83)

  53. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 8/18/2020 @ 9:37 am
    nk (1d9030) — 8/18/2020 @ 9:39 am

    If life has taught me anything, it is that things can always get worse. I see a President Harris in our “Christmas to come” if we are not careful.

    felipe (023cc9)

  54. #MeToo, felipe. Four more years of Trump will be worse.

    nk (1d9030)

  55. existential threats is when democrats don’t win,

    https://babalublog.com/2020/08/18/fidel-castro-educated-cuban-kids-gave-them-health-care-totally-transformed-cuban-society-is-that-a-bad-thing-bernie-sanders-mr-biden-will-be-implementing-sanders-dreams-biden-has-adop/

    the wholesale destruction of major urban areas, isn’t considered such, they need ‘room to destroy after all’ that is the

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  56. As for the Democrat tail wagging the dog that worries Bored Lawyer, if it were so then Harris, or Bernie, or Warren would be the Presidential nominee, not Biden.

    nk (1d9030)

  57. no I’m not trusting captain pike, to do the right thing, even if ‘he failed’ he would do too much damage,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  58. 30. Other presidents have pardoned long dead people. Gerald Ford pardoned Robert E. Lee – a pardon which would be much frowned upon today. There were people – themselves probably long dead by that time – who characterize Robert E. Lee as a fine, white bearded gentlemen, who displayed great leadership, in contrast to U.S. Grant whom they characterized as unkempt, muddy-booted, cigar-chewing and boozy breathed wo was uncouth and had good luck

    Note: From a book Pills, Potions and Granny by Richard Armour, published 1960. This person’s great grandmother on his mother’s side,, so characterized him. His father’s mother, kept on display in a bookcase the Personal Memoirs of U.S. Grant. She knew its contents although not quite as much as she knew Shakespeare. That ancestor lived in the same city with them but not the same house.

    The pro-Lee ancestor came from Kentucky and couldn’t stand the thought of U.S> Grant drinking high quality Kentucky bourbon. She also said she used to cut and sew sheets to make costumes for the Ku Klux Klan after the war, and she was proud of it, like as if she had been Red Cross worker rolling bandages. There must have been a love interest involved. Richard Armour doesn’t say and probably never knew why.

    She lived with his family for the last 15 years of her life, till about 1927, and was a pain to his father,

    There is a lot of things you can learn from reading autobiographies and memoirs. I just looked into it today. I bought it along time ago, and never really read it. Now I read a few pages, some reread)
    )

    Sammy Finkelman (db2a13)

  59. There’s a short story (possibly novela?) called Flatworld that’s about a 2 dimensional being encountering a 3 dimensional being. The story there is interesting, but then the 3 dimensional being shows him a 0 dimensional being, essentially just a single point. This being has no concept of anything existing outside of itself, and even when they talk to it it assumed that it’s just hearing it’s own thoughts.

    This is what I think Trumps mind is like. It’s not that he doesn’t care about others, he’s completely incapable of it. It’s completely alien of him to perceive anything except in how it effects him.

    Manotaur (0c90cd)

  60. Time… I remember a time you not giving statements like these any benefit of doubt because they weren’t under oath.

    Why are you so willing to believe statements not made under oath? There’s a whole cottage industry of “anonymous” and name folks BS’ing their way to money trough with respect to Trump.

    Whembly, I think you’re talking about statements made during the Ukraine investigation. If that’s what you’re thinking of you’re right I didn’t. The reason was that the people making the public statements (such as John Bolton or Donald Trump) had the opportunity to testify under oath, and were being asked to do so and were refusing / fighting subpoenas.

    If Bolton wasn’t willing to make the statement under oath when he was being asked to do so why should I believe him when he’s not under oath? It seriously damages his credibility in a number of ways. His book deal did additional damage.

    If Miles Taylor is invited to answer questions under oath about these statements as part of a congressional investigation and refused I think that would be evidence that he’s not credible. Not proof, but evidence.

    Until then what I have to go on is the fact that he’s saying them under his own name, with his own voice and AFAIK without any expectation to profit. If he takes a speaking gig on cable news to provide ongoing commentary and not just as a guest being interviewed, I’d reconsider that as well.

    Testimony under oath and subject to cross examination > Testimony freely given in your own name > Testimony that you profit from > Anonymous sources > paid spin.

    Long Answer; does it make sense / answer the question?

    Time123 (c9382b)

  61. Correction, “Flatland”, not Flatworld.

    Manotaur (0c90cd)

  62. we saw with the irs, the atf, the civil rights division under obama, they don’t have to be given orders, the prosecutors who went after ted stevens, and bob mcdonnell (one of whom was justin fairfax,) we know what weissman did to arthur andersen, and who benefited from it, at the state level you have ronnie earle and his jihad against delay, we know conversely how no prosecutor touched david rivera, despite his serial tax avoidance,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  63. one would have to be deaf dumb and blind to expect they would behave otherwise, or extremely cynical, personnel is policy after all,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  64. @38: Time123, you’re comparing a political ad to (ostensibly) news reports. Don’t be ridiculous.

    beer ‘n pretzels (a36706) — 8/18/2020 @ 10:34 am

    A former Trump admin official just sat down and told you, in his own words, that he saw Trump with hold aid to people in California because they didn’t vote for him and it wasn’t a political base for him. (starts at 36 sec.)

    Yes, it’s being aired in a political ad. Yes it would be better if it were part of a well researched news article. Yes it would be best if it were sworn testimony with cross examination.

    But can you show me anything similar from the articles you linked?
    Anyone from FEMA or the Obama admin saying They withheld aid for political reasons?
    Any anonymous sources saying it?

    What evidence do they have in the articles you linked that Obama did the same thing?

    Time123 (b87ded)

  65. Ted Stevens was indicted under Bush.

    Davethulhu (2202c3)

  66. Don’t try to distract him with facts.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  67. doesn’t matter it served the purpose of seeking the 60th vote, just like the ballots they ‘found’ for franken, that put him over the top, and unlike with the flynn matter, the fraud happened in sullivan’s own court, there were corrupt acts with the chief witnesss and his fbi handler,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  68. But can you show me anything similar from the articles you linked?

    The articles show data and circumstantial evidence, allegations by people involved, and fact checking — again, by left wing outlets.

    Which goal post are we kicking toward?

    No, I can’t show you a partisan political ad that makes similar allegations against Biden. I concede!

    beer ‘n pretzels (a36706)

  69. Look to Chicago, Portland, Seattle, etc., as the showrooms for the latest Democratic governance, as a Biden/Harris Administration Proof of Concept.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  70. Bnp, you’re completely misstating what those articles say.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  71. but wait she did everything right, how can that be:

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/16/asia/new-zealand-ardern-election-delay-coronavirus/index.html

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  72. well then:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8639501/ Bill-Clinton-smiles-receiving-neck-massage-Jeffrey-Epstein-victim.html

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  73. Biden had an affair with a married woman.

    Harris had an affair with a married man.

    But, Trump tho.

    #MeToo is dead… and that’s really unfortunate (I mean that sincerely).

    whembly (c30c83)

  74. I don’t think exta-marital sex has much to do with MeToo.

    Now if you wanted to point out that Bill Clinton got a speaking invite to the DNC convention….

    Time123 (c9382b)

  75. Biden had an affair with a married woman.

    There’s no corroborating evidence, and Jill’s ex is trying to sell a book.

    Harris had an affair with a married man.

    Technically true, but Brown had been estranged from his wife for a decade.

    But, Trump tho.

    Yes, because there’s oodles and oodles of evidence that he cheated on his wives. This is what passes for moral equivalency among the Trumpalistas.

    Paul Montagu (52bb2d)

  76. Look to Chicago, Portland, Seattle, etc., as the showrooms for the latest Democratic governance, as a Biden/Harris Administration Proof of Concept.

    I would add New York. Which was doing well under Giuiliani and Bloomberg, and has been seriously harmed by De Blasio. Midtown Manhattan, which until a few months ago I worked in and it was very nice, now looks like a war zone. But the Mayor thinks the most important thing on his plate is to keep repainting BLACK LIVES MATTER across from the Trump Towers.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  77. @78 I really don’t care about Trump’s infidelity, and really don’t care about Biden/Harris’ either. It’s just all rich…

    @77 Time… true, that Clinton headliner is baffling.

    whembly (c30c83)

  78. @80 & @78

    I think infidelity is one of those ‘principle’ things. Dems haven’t really cared for a LONG time but conservatives much more recently said that living according to Christian values was required for higher office.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  79. *What are…

    The President’s subordinating important decisions to his personal goal are, in general, existential threats since we invest his office with the power and duty to make existential decisions.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  80. The best argument I can make FOR Trump in the area of global-push-comes-to-shove is that he IS totally unpredictable.

    While he seems quite ready to allow threats (e.g. North Korea) to go unanswered, if (say) China was wondering what would happen if they invaded Taiwan, the spectrum of responses would be wide.

    With someone like Obama or Clinton they’d have a good idea of the carefully-thought out response, but Trump would just as likely throw nukes as go golfing. Maybe that’s a good thing.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  81. I really don’t care about Trump’s infidelity, and really don’t care about Biden/Harris

    I don’t care if Trump is unfaithful. He really doesn’t pretend to be faithful and I suspect that the pre-nup has an (asymmetrical) clause or two regarding this. It’s their marriage, not yours or mine.

    The same behavior from Biden would annoy me. The same behavior from W, or Jimmy Carter, would be outrageous. They claim to be moral men.

    The problem with Bill Clinton was not the unsurprising infidelity, it was the perjury. the long history sexual predation, and the abuse of power in crushing anyone who spoke up.

    My problem with Harris is that she lies in ways that affect ME. She is disingenuous, underhanded, ruthless and thinks nothing of lying to the people she “serves” to gain a small and fleeting advantage.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  82. I have zero expectation that our political leaders are “our betters” so when the Biden or Harris infidelity came out, it doesn’t phase me. I literally just shrug at it.

    Even George HW Bush’s wife Barbara knew Georgie had side-pieces.

    I won’t even be that shocked if Mike Pence had side-pieces too.

    So when we have the likes of Bill Clinton, still worshiped by much of the liberal-leftist circle… I cannot scrounge any outrage on Trump’s own allegations. (of course, outside of hard evidence)

    As for Harris…agreed, 100%. She has similar baggage as Hillary Clinton did, so it’ll be interesting if Harris helps or hurts Biden’s chances.

    We truly deserve these candidates… bloody shame.

    whembly (c30c83)

  83. Manotaur (0c90cd) — 8/18/2020 @ 11:11 am

    There’s a short story (possibly novela?) called Flatworld

    Actually called Flatland. First published in 1884 (that early?) Included in the 4-volume set The World of Mathematics by James R. Newman (1956) Available for free on;ine (the copyright has long since expired)

    This is one place: http://wordyenglish.com/flatland/index.html

    Manotaur:

    that’s about a 2 dimensional being encountering a 3 dimensional being. The story there is interesting, but then the 3 dimensional being shows him a 0 dimensional being, essentially just a single point. This being has no concept of anything existing outside of itself, and even when they talk to it it assumed that it’s just hearing it’s own thoughts.

    Here it is:

    http://wordyenglish.com/flatland/flat20.html

    This is what I think Trumps mind is like. It’s not that he doesn’t care about others, he’s completely incapable of it. It’s completely alien of him to perceive anything except in how it effects him.

    It is not that he doesn’t know there are other people. It is that he may not really have any values, besides getting along wth people.

    Trump thinks in terms of whether something is pro or con hi or his stated position, not good or bad.

    Sammy Finkelman (db2a13)

  84. Look to 171,000 Americans dead from Covid-19 to date, with 1,000 more dead a day indefinitely, as a Trump Administration Proof of Concept.

    nk (1d9030)

  85. 76. whembly: Biden had an affair with a married woman.

    78: Paul Montagu: There’s no corroborating evidence, and Jill’s ex is trying to sell a book.

    It shpuld be possible to check it out. Joe Biden apparently claims they met on a blind date.

    Bill Stevenson claims that both he and his wife worked on Biden’s first campaign for the United States Senate and Joe Biden had met them in 1972. They did some work with Biden in Biden’s kitchen he says. At the time. they owned the Stone Balloon, a popular bar near the University of Delaware

    He apparently says that (after Joe Biden’s wife died) she used to watch Joe Biden’s kids, and this led to the affair – or suspected affair – and they got more and more open about being seen together, until finally he told his wife she had to leave the house. They got divorced in 1975, ad Joe Biden married Jill in 1977.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8635281/Jill-Biden-cheated-husband-Joe-ex-claims.html

    Stevenson said he first suspected Biden and Jill were having an affair in August 1974; He was then 26, Jill was 23 and Joe was 31

    ‘One of her best friends told me she thought Joe and Jill were getting a little too close,’ he said

    That October he got confirmation when a man informed him Biden was driving his wife’s car and the two of them got into a fender bender

    Stevenson said: ‘I asked Jill to leave the house, which she did… I considered Joe a friend. I’m not surprised he fell in love with Jill’

    This is either true or not true.

    I didn’t even know that Jill was married before.

    Sammy Finkelman (db2a13)

  86. Even George HW Bush’s wife Barbara knew Georgie had side-pieces.

    These Trump fanatics have nothing in their hearts but hatred.

    I cannot scrounge any outrage on Trump’s own allegations

    They were 13 years old. You do you, Trump fan.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  87. That was garbage from gatekeeper susan page. A very respectable sort.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  88. @90

    Even George HW Bush’s wife Barbara knew Georgie had side-pieces.

    These Trump fanatics have nothing in their hearts but hatred.

    You’re not making any sense.

    Barbara’s own book after HW’s death described for years she know of his infidelities.

    I cannot scrounge any outrage on Trump’s own allegations

    They were 13 years old. You do you, Trump fan.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 8/18/2020 @ 2:58 pm

    You’re going to have to elaborate Trump h8er.

    whembly (c30c83)

  89. “Master Baiters Of Deflection or Where Will We Find Acorns For All Those Squirrels?”, a Trumpkin Unlimited Production, now in its fourth season.

    nk (1d9030)

  90. “The Senator made a very moving and eloquent speech as a son of the Confederacy acknowledging that is was time to change and yield to a position that Senator Carol Mosely Braun raised on the floor of the Senate not granting a federal charter to a [sic] organization made up of many fine people who continue to display the Confederate flag as a symbol and the charter was to give them the right..the “impriratur” [sic] of the federal government to do that.”

    —- Joe Biden

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  91. 89. This is the sort of thing that can become widely known only after someone runs for president, but sometimes not even then, or not till they get pretty deep into it.

    Sammy Finkelman (db2a13)

  92. Wow, I can’t believe Biden said that about the organizers and participants of a white supremacist rally.

    Davethulhu (2202c3)

  93. You’re not making any sense.

    Oh I think it makes perfect sense. You’re so fanatical about defending Trump that you have nothing to offer but hatred.

    Barbara’s own book after HW’s death described for years she know of his infidelities.

    Congratulations for researching reasons to hate dead people in order to deflect that Trump’s victims were sometimes 13 years old.

    Trump h8er.

    whembly (c30c83) — 8/18/2020 @ 3:10 pm

    Hate the sin not the sinner. Trump’s the most needy and insecure person I’ve ever seen. Can’t even get a moment of affection from wife #3. Not even a hand hold. Wife #1 publicized her brutal rape. Wife #2 won’t let him near the kid. Trump is a main in tremendous pain, betraying you and every American to our nation’s mortal enemy, Putin, to get another ‘accomplishment’. As usual, Trump’s accomplishments wind up being embarrassing. No one hates Trump as much as Trump hates himself.

    Amusingly, Trump just explained that we may need to do the election over again because democrats are making the election “political”. I could no more hate him than I could hate his fanatical fans. World’s clearly got enough hate.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  94. #88 —
    So did Biden hang out with Weinstein, in the way that Trump hung out with Jeffrey Epstein?

    How many people in 2013 knew all about the Weinstein story that would break in October 2017?
    My favorite pop star, a solid family man, collaborated with Eliot Kennedy to write music for Weinstein’s production of “Finding Neverland,” which opened in 2014. (BTW, HW wanted a couple of new songs, but he liked what BG and EK did so much he had them rewrite the whole thing.) Not everyone who ever worked with HW or was acquainted with him socially knew everything about him. Michelle O. wasn’t hanging out in Hollywood collecting gossip from inside the industry.

    I reckon that Donald Trump knew more about Jeffrey Epstein’s personal life when he called him a great guy and partied with him. And what did he know about Ghislaine Maxwell when he recently wished her well?

    For the last 4-plus years, Trumpistas have been saying that “character” means nothing and only losers worry about it. So it’s pretty funny to see the character argument being resurrected in this convoluted form.

    Radegunda (e1ea47)

  95. Wow, I can’t believe Biden said that about the organizers and participants of a white supremacist rally.

    Davethulhu (2202c3) — 8/18/2020 @ 3:31 pm

    If Biden’s going to really be the person the nation needs to fix these divisions, yeah, he needs to find a way to understand and respect and persuade.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  96. The times, new york magazine and other publications all covered for weinstein up until 2017.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)


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