Patterico's Pontifications

7/16/2020

Georgia Governor Bans Mask Mandates

Filed under: General — Dana @ 12:39 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Oh, come on:

Gov. Brian Kemp on Wednesday extended Georgia’s coronavirus restrictions while explicitly banning cities and counties from adopting rules requiring masks or other face coverings, a measure that could bolster the state’s case in a possible legal battle.

Kemp’s executive order — which was set to expire Wednesday evening — still encourages, rather than requires, Georgians to wear masks in public. The governor has called such a requirement “a bridge too far,” and his office has said local mandates are unenforceable.

The governor’s coronavirus orders have for months banned local governments from taking more restrictive or lenient steps than the state. But the new set of rules he signed on Wednesday specified for the first time that cities and counties can’t require the use of masks or other face coverings.

About the legal positioning involved:

The governor’s coronavirus orders have for months banned local governments from taking more restrictive or lenient steps than the state. But the new set of rules he signed on Wednesday specified for the first time that cities and counties can’t require the use of masks or other face coverings.

That could improve the state’s standing in a courtroom fight against a string of cities that have defied Kemp’s emergency order by requiring masks. Savannah led that charge earlier this month, and since then other cities including Atlanta, Athens and Augusta have followed suit.

By the way, here are Georgia’s latest numbers:

Georgia reported 3,871 new cases of the disease on Wednesday, the second-highest daily count to date, and 37 deaths. So far, 127,834 people have tested positive for COVID-19 in Georgia, more than double the number reported in mid-June, and 3,091 have died from it in the Peach State.

The rate of new tests that are positive for the disease is soaring, an indication that experts say suggests the spread of the disease — and not increased testing — is the culprit.

Also, just days before this ban was announced, the CDC reaffirmed the viability of wearing a mask to help reduce transmission rates:

“We are not defenseless against COVID-19,” said CDC Director Dr. Robert R. Redfield. “Cloth face coverings are one of the most powerful weapons we have to slow and stop the spread of the virus – particularly when used universally within a community setting. All Americans have a responsibility to protect themselves, their families, and their communities.”

Interestingly, just hours before Kemp banned mask mandates, next door in Alabama, Gov. Kay Ivey announced a statewide mask order, effective today.

–Dana

155 Responses to “Georgia Governor Bans Mask Mandates”

  1. Politics before public health.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  2. Death cultists gonna death cult.

    Dave (1bb933)

  3. KARENs gonna KAREN…

    Relief is just a few steps away… https://www.facebook.com/laura.bolton.589/videos/10158453500157770/?t=28

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  4. I realize that 156 people dying is of little importance for Trump and his followers, really just a ripple in the pond more seriously disturbed by terrible people on the sidewalks in Portland, but just for the record, today 156 people died in Florida of the virus, which is their new daily record , eclipsing the 132 who died Tuesday, their prior high day record.

    Victor (0301a3)

  5. Politics before public health.

    The BLM protests and riots being over, we can now harrumph about politics before health.

    beer ‘n pretzels (494acc)

  6. It’s no big deal. Georgia was only 8th in most dead people from the virus yesterday (37). On average, 128 per day die in that state anyway. Open the bars, screw the masks, hug your church choir.

    Paul Montagu (5ffc5f)

  7. Public health isn’t a trump card either. There’s a line that should be drawn between government mandates vs reasonable responsible expectations.

    Also I don’t think that CDC (really JAMA and MMWR) studies “reaffirms” cloth masks works.

    “works” is a relative term, and cloth masks shouldn’t be considered as panacea here.

    It’s not JUST the masks that mitigates the spread, it’s also the hygiene involves. Which is no different than what we should be doing during flu seasons (ie, wash hands frequently, refrain touch mucous membranes, etc…).

    One of the studies was in a Boston Hospital system and they’re most likely using professional N95 rated masks. Those *have* shown to mitigate the spread. However, most of the public isn’t using N95 mask…. they’re using essentially bandannas.

    The other study about those two Missouri hair stylist wearing masks even when they tested positive is inconclusive. The study isn’t helpful in describe *what* symptom(s) the stylist thought they had when taking care of patients and couldn’t I find any timelines.

    Cloth masks are extremely weak barrier to prevent the spread of spit droplets, which is the main vehicle to transmit the disease. That’s why you see hospital staff not only wearing N95 masks, but goggles and/or face shield as well, to protect the their mucous membranes (eyes, nostrils).

    If you’re in the camp of “every little bit helps”… then sure, cloth masks can add a wee bit of mitigation. But, by itself it really doesn’t add much. It’s more important to practice good hygiene and be responsible enough to recognize the the symptoms early enough so that you can self-quarantine.

    whembly (a23745)

  8. really just a ripple in the pond more seriously disturbed by terrible people on the sidewalks in Portland

    Terrible people on the sidewalks of Portland, Seattle, DC and elsewhere, not practicing social distancing and not always wearing masks, get a pass.

    Because some here are more seriously disturbed by Shelley Luther getting out of prison.

    beer ‘n pretzels (aee173)

  9. EXCLUSIVE: WHITE HOUSE DOCUMENT SHOWS 18 STATES IN CORONAVIRUS “RED ZONE”
    A document prepared for the White House Coronavirus Task Force but not publicized suggests more than a dozen states should revert to more stringent protective measures, limiting social gatherings to 10 people or fewer, closing bars and gyms and asking residents to wear masks at all times.

    The document, dated July 14 and obtained by the Center for Public Integrity, says 18 states are in the “red zone” for COVID-19 cases, meaning they had more than 100 new cases per 100,000 population last week. Eleven states are in the “red zone” for test positivity, meaning more than 10 percent of diagnostic test results came back positive.
    ….
    …..Gov. Brian Kemp signed an order Wednesday banning localities from requiring masks.

    The 18 states that are included in the red zone for cases in the document are: Alabama, Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Arizona, North Carolina, California, Nevada, Florida, Oklahoma, Georgia, South Carolina, Idaho,Tennessee, Iowa, Texas, Kansas, and Utah.

    The 11 states that are in the red zone for test positivity are: Alabama, Mississippi, Arizona, Nevada, Florida, South Carolina, Georgia, Texas, Idaho, Washington and Louisiana.
    ……

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  10. Killing its citizens for political reasons. If the people will lead the leaders will eventually follow.

    asset (5065d6)

  11. 5… yes, indeed. Now they strike a “you can believe us this time” pose. Super-spreading mostly peaceful riots and looting is on teh wane, so it’s back to KARENism.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  12. I’ve seen references to various super spreader events, usually involving large numbers of people inside somewhere, like a church choir, or a party, or a bar, or a restaurant, or an interior political rally.

    Interestingly, it looks increasingly clear that outdoor events, like political protests, are less likely to be superspreaders.

    South Carolina also had its highest death day, 72. But I guess none of them matter much either. People die in South Carolina all the time.

    Victor (0301a3)

  13. It’ll be interesting to see how the “f**k your dead” GOTV strategy plays out now that red and purple states on the receiving end of it too.

    TR (71e867)

  14. Crackers will cracker.

    Soda, soda, oh soda cracker!
    Do yo’ mama chaw terbacker?
    If yo’ mama chaw terbacker,
    Say soda, soda, oh soda cracker!

    nk (1d9030)

  15. The BLM protests and riots being over, we can now harrumph about politics before health.

    beer ‘n pretzels (494acc) — 7/16/2020 @ 1:17 pm

    I have been an equal-opportunity objector to protests of all kinds during the pandemic (because of the lack of masks/social distancing), and barked about it on various posts.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  16. Interestingly, it looks increasingly clear that outdoor events, like political protests, are less likely to be superspreaders.

    Just last week, Los Angeles Mayor Garcetti admitted that the BLM protests contributed to the current spike we’re seeing in the city. Also, New York City can’t know for sure whether the protests added to the spike, or were superspreaders because DeBlasio specifically instructed contact tracers *not* to ask whether people attended recent protests.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  17. 15. Gotta hand it to you, Dana, you’re nothing if not consistent.

    16. That’s kind of funny. I don’t recall seeing much about Garcetti’s “admission” in the news.

    You know where there weren’t any superspread events over the 4th of July Weekend?
    .
    .
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    South Dakota

    Gryph (08c844)

  18. 17. *anything about it..

    Gryph (08c844)

  19. 9… a breathless Rip Taylor…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  20. Milbank Nights are a byword among the jet set.

    nk (1d9030)

  21. The Garcetti news seemed to have been downplayed… I saw it at the Daily Mail first, and also saw it at KABC. Not surprising, just a few days prior, Garcetti said that there had been no conclusive evidence that the protests and spikes were linked…

    Dana (25e0dc)

  22. It’ll be interesting to see how the “f**k your dead” GOTV strategy plays out now that red and purple states on the receiving end of it too.

    Effing your dead is a decades long Democrat past time, goes hand-in-hand with having them vote.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  23. I’d wager we’d see more of this:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/

    Results
    The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

    Conclusions
    This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

    whembly (c30c83)

  24. The Garcetti news seemed to have been downplayed…

    You don’t say. A lot of that going around!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  25. You know where there weren’t any superspread events over the 4th of July Weekend?

    South Dakota

    Cool story bro.

    The 4th of July was 12 days ago, with an illness incubation period according to the CDC of:

    The incubation period for COVID-19 is thought to extend to 14 days, with a median time of 4-5 days from exposure to symptoms onset. One study reported that 97.5% of persons with COVID-19 who develop symptoms will do so within 11.5 days of SARS-CoV-2 infection.

    In South Dakota today, test results come back within 3 days to 8 days.

    So with 12 days elapsed, and the mid point of incubation being about 6.5 days, and the mid point of test results being 5.5 days, the soonest you would start to expect results would be 12 days. As little as 10 as long as 22. Which means 4th of July infections are not yet registering, or will be this afternoon.

    Hospitalization occurs between 6-22 after infection, ICU is between 2-5 days after that, and an outcome is between 5 and 20 (up to 45 days in some instances) either released or released from these earthly bonds.

    Hospitalizations for 4th of July would start hitting next week, the ICU the week after that, and deaths over the next 3 weeks.

    So a 4th of July infection could take up to nine weeks to reach “conclusion” even if that conclusion doesn’t mean healthy. So talk to me at the beginning of October.

    But its good to know that you know there were none and are stating it categorically, with zero basis in facts.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  26. 16. Dana (25e0dc) — 7/16/2020 @ 2:42 pm

    Also, New York City can’t know for sure whether the protests added to the spike, or were superspreaders because DeBlasio specifically instructed contact tracers *not* to ask whether people attended recent protests.

    But it’s a tiny spike.

    There were 0 deaths from the coronavirus reported in New York State on July 11.

    More deaths from shootings maybe.

    Sammy Finkelman (b4888e)

  27. Governor Brian Kemp:

    Conservative. Republican.

    ‘Nuff said.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. 25. Oh I see. So in two days when I point out that there is still no indication of a superspread from South Dakota, you’ll have another reason handy to explain to me why I’m wrong. Gotcha.

    Gryph (08c844)

  29. 27. Hold the phone there, Methuselah. Kristi Noem is a conservative Republican as well, and she didn’t forbid any cities here from doing anything. Watch where you paint with that broad brush.

    Gryph (08c844)

  30. Los Angeles Mayor Garcetti admitted that the BLM protests contributed to the current spike we’re seeing in the city.

    And ‘The Silent Majority’ smiled…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  31. @17. Naming 76,000 square miles of dirt after Native Americans is offensive to my tribe.

    ‘Much of western South Dakota is covered by buttes.’ -source, PreparationWiki.H

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  32. In South Dakota today, test results come back within 3 days to 8 days.

    Pony Express.

    They get FM radio in 2021.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  33. I came out of the Jewel with my mask on and keeping six feet away from everyone, I pushed my cart to my car, all the while wearing my face mask. A woman was getting out of her car next to me with no mask. As I’m putting groceries into my car she says, “Let me guess – you’re a liberal – ‘cause that mask ain’t gonna do anything for you except make you look stupid.” In anticipation of this happening, I was ready with my response. I said, “Look, I woke up this morning with a temperature of 102 (I didn’t), plus I work around hundreds of people in close quarters (I don’t), so this mask is for your protection, not mine. How about I take it off and we hug like old friends?” I stepped toward her and acted as if I was taking off my mask. She stepped back away from me and went across to the next row of cars. I followed her, she kept walking away, I chased her, she ran… She fell down. I grabbed her foot. I pulled on her leg, just like I’m pulling yours.

    nk (1d9030)

  34. I can only see two possible arguments in favor of Gov. Kemp’s move, neither one which strikes me as too convincing:

    1) the governor sees mandatory mask wearing as a infringement upon individual rights, or

    2) the governor is acknowledging the reality that given the tensions surrounding how law enforcement interacts with the community, it’s best not to give law enforcement a mandate to enforce an order that is already rather controversial.

    Since the governor is encouraging Georgians to wear a mask it seems likely that perhaps argument 2) is weighing upon his mind. If that is the case, then he ought to just make it plain and clear. But I believe in the concept of subsidiarity, so to me Gov. Kemp should have just left it up to each local jurisdiction.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  35. @33

    Dammit, nk. You had me there for a while. Funny!

    norcal (a5428a)

  36. Maybe Gov. Kemp should have gone the Gavin Newsom route and only banned certain counties from enforcing the mask order. He could have issued the ban for Fulton County only, and justified it by saying that since the citizens of Atlanta are angry at local law enforcement it only makes sense that the city not exacerbate the situation by requiring police to enforce any mandatory mask edicts.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  37. @33. Watched some maskless dude first get badgered by patrons then literall chased out of the Post Office this morning for not being considerate of others and wearing a mask.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  38. Meanwhile, Taiwan has had seven Covid deaths. Not today. Not last week. Not last month. Since the outbreak.

    Lest you think Taiwan is some tiny island, it’s about 250 miles long and nearly 100 miles wide, with a population of 23 million.

    Seven Covid deaths.

    One would suppose that the richest and most powerful country on Earth could do better.

    norcal (a5428a)

  39. How about they do the Oregon way where masks are mandatory, except for minorities, because you know… bigotry.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  40. One would suppose that the richest and most powerful country on Earth could do better.

    norcal (a5428a) — 7/16/2020 @ 4:12 pm

    Um, North Korea reports zero deaths, so yeah, one would suppose.

    Dustin (d0158a)

  41. Dustin,

    Are you implying that democratic countries like Taiwan, New Zealand, and Norway, who have all done a tremendous job of keeping the virus in check, are fudging their numbers like North Korea?

    norcal (a5428a)

  42. I’m flat out stating that they don’t count bullet wounds as Wuhan flu deaths, nor do they count the countless other comorbidities.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  43. Lol, nk!!

    Dana (25e0dc)

  44. NJRob,

    Even if you account for co-morbidities in the U.S. Covid death count, wouldn’t you say the difference between Taiwan, New Zealand, and Norway versus the U.S. is astonishing?

    norcal (a5428a)

  45. Are you implying that democratic countries like Taiwan, New Zealand, and Norway, who have all done a tremendous job of keeping the virus in check, are fudging their numbers like North Korea?

    norcal (a5428a) — 7/16/2020 @ 4:29 pm

    hahaha, no I was just being stupid

    I agree Taiwan has done an amazing job. they have a very different culture there, for a lot of reasons. One being that they all exist with a looming enemy. The other being a much more common sense of background and future than we have here. It’s easier to get them to all wear masks, or otherwise work to protect eachother. There’s a lot to learn by emulating them, and if we did, it would save a lot of lives.

    Dustin (d0158a)

  46. No. Though it does help that those nations don’t have idiots rioting in the streets with the full support of half the government.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  47. Crazy. Not Gov. Kemp, I mean his critics.

    1. Prove mask bans work. Give me the stats – not appeals to authority.
    2. Explain why NY has 35,000 deaths and GA has 3,100. So why is Cuomo a better Governor?
    3. Other states have required masks and have more deaths than GA. For example, Connecticut 1,200 vs. GA 200. how can this be?
    4. Total deaths in GA due to CV-19? 37 yesterday. That’s right. 37 in a state of 11 Million. That’s approximately 1 per 300,000 people. Why is this a significant number of people? 7,000 die in the USA every day.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  48. Anyway, keep on with the Orangeman Bad therapy session in the comments.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  49. 1. Prove mask bans work. Give me the stats – not appeals to authority.

    🤣

    Dustin (d0158a)

  50. JVW,

    You’re more gracious to Kemp (by providing two possible reasons for his ban) than me. I don’t think the core politics of the issue can be ignored: Kemp loves him some Trump, Trump opposes masks, therefore Kemp bans mask mandates. Plus, just yesterday, Kemp greeted Trump at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport and neither man was wearing a mask. Additionally, Kemp looked ridiculous with his mask hanging from one ear.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  51. Anyway, keep on with the Orangeman Bad therapy session in the comments.

    rcocean (fcc23e) — 7/16/2020 @ 4:50 pm

    rcocean,

    You seem like a guy who has a good grasp of the Constitution and conservative principles. Can’t you see that Trump has undermined the conservative cause with his divisive rhetoric and professional wrestler preening?

    norcal (a5428a)

  52. Does the Governor, on his own, have the authority to do that? I can see how the state legislature could pass a law restricting the counties’ and municipalities’ authority, but a simple executive order?

    The Dana in Kentucky (229a56)

  53. I saw something interesting last night. A graphic showing the percentage of Covid19 deaths in each state which were nursing home residents.

    The highest percentage was in Montana, with 80%. Rhode Island was right behind at 79 point something. Texas and Florida are among a number of states which have percentages in the 50s (I think Texas was 55% and Florida was 50%.) Arizona was in the high 40s. Most states were in the 30-50% range.
    The state with the lowest percentage, 15.9%, the only one with a percentage under 20%, was New York.
    IOW that policy of sending patients back to nursing homes had a lot less impact on the death rate in NY than people have claimed.

    Kishnevi (280ffd)

  54. 53. That may be the case Kish, but I think some context is called for here. As there are certain things I’m not certain about, I’ll phrase them in the form of questions thusly:

    Were the CoViD patients dumped into the nursing homes counted as “residents?” Whether or not they were could account for skewing the patients younger and upping the raw numbers of CoViD deaths at the same time. I don’t believe this is an argument that putting CoViD patients in nursing homes was a good idea, but I realize that’s not the argument you’re making here.

    I’m curious specifically to know what the percentage of nursing home deaths was in South Dakota for the same time period. And this is not an attack on anyone, but I am genuinely not sure, and I’m not sure how many states allowed health networks and individual nursing homes to set their own policy. I only know that South Dakota was one of them.

    How did the percentage of victims skew by age for those who were not nursing home residents, nor staying in nursing homes by the time they died? I have a feeling that those numbers would also tend to skew older, and skew towards those with existing comorbidities as they seem to in any population, but that is pure speculation on my part.

    To sum up my feelings on this whole business, while I don’t really know enough to argue this point, more context is called for if this data is to mean anything concrete in terms of policy going forward.

    Gryph (08c844)

  55. In the Bluegrass Statem Reichsstatthalter Andy Beshear (NSDAP-KY) issued his mandatory masks order last Friday, but a couple of courts have issued injunctions against them. The Governor made an emergency motion to the state Court of Appeals to stay those court orders, but the Court said that there was no reason to disturb normal legal procedure. Thus far, Herr Beshear has lost every court battle fighting his Führerbefehle.

    State Attorney General Daniel Cameron (R-KY) has said that he doesn’t oppose people wearing masks, but that the Governor has not followed proper legal procedure. If the Reichsstatthalter had consulted with the Attorney General and the leaders of the two chambers of the General Assembly, but Herr Beshear was having none of it:

    Beshear was asked at Friday’s news conference on COVID-19 why he has not included the legislature in coming up with his orders. He said many state lawmakers refuse to wear masks and noted that 26 legislators in Mississippi have tested positive for the virus.

    Translation: he didn’t want to consult anyone, because they might not agree with him. Both chambers of the General Assembly are controlled by Republicans.

    The state legislature is not in session, and will not be until next January. The Governor has the authority to call them into a special session, but the legislature cannot call itself into session.

    The Dana in Kentucky (229a56)

  56. 52. I think it’s just as fair to ask if a governor (such as Commifornia’s Governor Noisome) has the authority to mandate masks.

    I feel an obligation to chime in here by pointing out that I’m very uncomfortable with the way Kemp has been handling this — my own distaste for masks notwithstanding. For me to cheer Kemp on would be a violation of my own conservative (strongly libertarian-leaning…?) principles.

    Gryph (08c844)

  57. Of course, the “Karens” were out in force:

    Several Lexington businesses reported for not fully complying with KY mask mandate
    By Karla Ward | July 15, 2020 | 9:11 AM EDT

    Some Lexington businesses already have been reported to local authorities for allegedly being too lax with customers or employees who do not wear masks as required in Kentucky to help prevent the spread of coronavirus.

    But several of the companies said they have already made moves to require or strongly encourage mask wearing. Although they can force their workers to put on face coverings, many face the dilemma of what to do about noncompliant patrons. Some supervisors say they aren’t shy about telling those people to leave.

    As of late afternoon Tuesday, the Lexington-Fayette County Health Department had received complaints from the public about 50 local companies accused of not enforcing Gov. Andy Beshear’s order mandating masks in many businesses. The complaints about employees and customers had been received since the mask rule took effect Friday night, health department spokesman Kevin Hall said.

    The Dana in Kentucky (229a56)

  58. Gryph wrote:

    I think it’s just as fair to ask if a governor (such as Commifornia’s Governor Noisome) has the authority to mandate masks.

    In the Keystone State, Governor Tom Wolf (D-PA), a man so stupid that he can’t tell males from females, has made noises about masks being mandatory until a COVID-19 vaccine is developed, something which might take years, or never happen at all.

    The Dana in Kentucky (229a56)

  59. I stepped toward her and acted as if I was taking off my mask. She stepped back away from me and went across to the next row of cars. I followed her, she kept walking away, I chased her, she ran… She fell down. I grabbed her foot. I pulled on her leg, just like I’m pulling yours.

    Dammit… I was going to suggest that it may’ve been the urine-soaked spot on the crotch and upper thigh region of your khakis that frightened the lady, but you spoiled it with that ending.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  60. 58. If CoViD-19 ever has a vaccine, it would be first. Coronavirus diseases have never been vaccinated for yet, although it hasn’t been for lack of trying, particularly in cattle and hogs.

    Gryph (08c844)

  61. When a man gets old,
    And his brain grows mold,
    And the veins on his nose turn blue,
    And he sags in the middle,
    Like a played-out old fiddle,
    He’ll comment as ______l ____u.

    nk (1d9030)

  62. That is a problem, theres too much variability to be an effective vaccine

    Narciso (7404b5)

  63. I can attest that the mask I put on the grill of my van has kept it from getting the china flu.

    mg (8cbc69)

  64. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/16/george-washington-universitys-office-of-diversity-/

    Just a reminder on how many fronts the communists are currently staging attacks.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  65. Just a reminder on how many fronts the communists are currently staging attacks…

    Building walls, purveying disinformation and championing the spread of red– often by wearing long neckties. Yep: Helsinki Blues.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  66. To whom it may concern:

    I mandate you wear a mask near me, or get the F away away from me right the F now. Your right to infect yourself does not mean you have the right to infect me.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  67. I don’t believe there is a state law preventing me from calling you a fukwit at the top of my lungs, either.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  68. I think an axe-handle is traditional in GA in these situations.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  69. If Trump really wanted to save lives in NYC, he would order the subways and buses shut down. Crowding and public transport make up most of the difference between NY & Georgia. True, he doesn’t have the power to do that, at least not intrastate, but that ship long since sailed.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  70. Making bandana-masks out of cut up confederate flags is fun.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  71. In Kemp’s defense, he may believe that neither he nor any city or county has the power to issue such an order. As far as people not wearing masks, other than those near me, I think of it as evolution in action.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  72. Gryph (08c844) — 7/16/2020 @ 5:35 pm

    It’s my understanding that those patients sent to nursing homes in New York were already residents of those facilities. In other a resident got sick, was sent to a hospital, the hospital sent him back to the nursing home to recover or die. I think very few long term care facilities are able to accept new residents that quickly. A lot of homes are full and have waiting lists to begin with.

    I remember the percentage for South Dakota seemed fairly average, but don’t remember the precise number.

    Kishnevi (70222c)

  73. One thing I’ve noticed is that everyone is an expert, except for doctors who are generally ignored.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  74. Leading scientists in their fields, too.
    I can imagine Einstein on Twitter, getting loads of blowback from a whole gang of non-physics majors.

    Paul Montagu (5ffc5f)

  75. I find all of this literally unbelievable. This is not the America I grew up in in the sixties, came of age in the seventies, went to college in the eighties, worked (as a teacher) in the nineties, went to graduate school, or worked (as realtor) in the early twenties. Everything is falling apart, and it’s only been in the last few years.

    What happened? I don’t know. But I would speculate that the GOP sold its soul to Trump. It was a Faustian bargain, and it will have long lasting effects. The Republicans are all in thrall.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/team-trump-frantically-plots-new-ways-to-make-him-feel-good-about-himself?ref=home

    I won’t be voting for any Republican until Trumpism is excised from the GOP.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  76. 72. That’s not my understanding. I was under the impression that covid patients were dumped in nursing homes en masse on the order of government bureaucrats beacuse “We don’t want to overwhelm the ICUs.”

    71. Are you familiar with the concept of “subsidiarity?” Kemp may be sincere in his beliefs and principles, but if you believe in freedom, telling people what to do — no matter what that happens to be — is exactly the wrong thing to do.

    Gryph (08c844)

  77. 71. Yeah, sure Kevin. Cause everyone who doesn’t wear a mask is going to catch the Covid, and everyone who catches it is going to die./ SMDH

    Gryph (08c844)

  78. 77. The Trump haters aren’t any better now. So many of the Nevertrump crowd are literally demanding that I sell my soul to moral and medical panic while they hold up the number of their friends who have died of covid as proof of their own moral superiority.

    Gryph (08c844)

  79. fond of chocolate
    he was a lawyer’s lawyer
    a human cockroach

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  80. I find all of this literally unbelievable. This is not the America I grew up in in the sixties, came of age in the seventies, went to college in the eighties, worked (as a teacher) in the nineties, went to graduate school, or worked (as realtor) in the early twenties. Everything is falling apart, and it’s only been in the last few years.

    What happened? I don’t know. But I would speculate that the GOP sold its soul to Trump. It was a Faustian bargain, and it will have long lasting effects. The Republicans are all in thrall.

    Because you’ve let confirmation bias fool you. Trump is a symptom. The fact is that the GOP had gotten comfortable ‘losing with honor’ to Democrats who had the sole focus of turning America into (at best) a wannabe Eurostate.

    That’s how Trump got elected. Not because of Russia, or because people are stupid. But because the GOP was going to give the store away AGAIN to the Democrats in 2016. Do you want to contemplate a Presidency run by the actively malevolent rather than the merely banal and foolish?

    Why do some of you call yourselves ‘conservatives’ when you’re not ‘conserving’ a damn thing?

    Capsaicin Addict (041266)

  81. 82. Speaking for myself, I wasn’t surprised that Trump won in 2016. And I think he’ll win again. But I don’t think it will be by a landslide next time.

    Gryph (08c844)

  82. Theyll be more cheating involved theyve shadowbanned the social media apparatus theyve shut down larger parts of the economy, as lenin said ‘the worse the better’

    Narciso (7404b5)

  83. I won’t be voting for any Republican until Trumpism is excised from the GOP.

    Other Daily Beast readers will tell you that is doubleplus good, brotha

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  84. 85. I seem to recall a name for this…oh yeah! “Reverse psychology!”

    Gryph (08c844)

  85. Some context around this fight:

    1. Atlanta’s mayor wants to go back to total lockdown and has ordered it. Kemp said his order overrules hers. The lawsuit applies to masks and this total lockdown thing. Note that the total lockdown order in Atlanta is simply being ignored.

    2. The mayor herself has tested positive for coronavirus along with members of her family.

    3. A few days ago, rioters vandalized and pillaged a state national guard location located in Atlanta. I think the governor was genuinely outraged by this. (If you know ATL’s neighborhoods — it is especially shocking since the facility is in a gentrifying part of town)

    4. Kemp has been on the medium outs with Trump because he hasn’t supported an extreme Trump lover in the upcoming Senate election. Like Sessions, he’s been trying to make up for it ever since. This mask thing is a good way to look tough.

    5. Politics in this state often turns out to be Atlanta vs. the rest of the state. Picking a fight with the ATL in an election year is seen as good politics.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  86. Some context around 2020…

    Dear Diary – 2020

    In January, Australia caught on fire. I don’t even know if that fire was put out, because we straight up almost went to war with Iran. We might actually still be almost at war with them. I don’t know, because Jen Aniston and Brad Pitt spoke to one another at an awards show and everyone flipped the f — - out, but then there was this thing happening in China, then Prince Harry and Megan peaced out of the Royal family, and there was the whole impeachment trial, and then corona virus showed up in the US “officially,” but then Kobe died and UK peaced out of the European Union.

    In February, Iowa crapped itself with the caucus results and the president was acquitted and the Speaker of the House took ten years to rip up a speech, but then WHO decided to give this virus a name COVID-19, which confused some really important people in charge of, like, our lives, into thinking there were 18 other versions before it, but then Harvey Weinstein was found guilty, and Americans started asking if Corona beer was safe to drink, and everyone on Facebook became a doctor who just knew the flu like killed way more people than COVID 1 through 18.

    In March, the sh*t hit the fan. Warren dropped out of the presidential race and Sanders was like Bernie or bust, but then Italy shut its whole ass down, and then COVID Not 1 through 18 officially become what everyone already realized, a pandemic and then a nationwide state of emergency was declared in US, but it didn’t really change anything, so everyone was confused or thought it was still just a flu, but then COVID Not 18 was like ya’ll not taking me seriously? I’m gonna infect the one celebrity everyone loves and totally infected Tom Hanks, but then the DOW took a sh*t on itself, and most of us still don’t understand why the stock market is so important or even a thing (I still don’t), but then we were all introduced to Tiger King. (Carol totally killed her husband), and Netflix was like you’re welcome, and we all realized there was no way we were washing our hands enough in the first place because all of our hands are now dry and gross.

    In April, Bernie finally busted himself out of the presidential race, but then NYC became the set of The Walking Dead and we learned that no one has face masks, ventilators, or toilet paper, or THE FREAKING SWIFFER WET JET LIQUID, but then Kim Jong-Un died, but then he came back to life… or did he? Who knows, because then the Pentagon released videos of UFOs and nobody cared, and we were like man, it’s only April….

    In May, the biblical end times kicked off historical locust swarms and then we learned of murder hornets and realized that 2020 was the start of the Hunger Games but people forgot to let us know, but then people legit protested lockdown measures with AR-15s, and then sports events were cancelled everywhere. But then people all over America finally reached a breaking point with race issues and violence. There were protests in every city, but then people forgot about the pandemic called COVID Not One Through 18. Media struggled with how to focus on two important things at once, but then people in general struggle to focus on more than one important thing, and a dead whale was found in the middle of the Amazon rain forest after monkeys stole COVID 1 Through 19 from a lab and ran off with them, and either in May or April (no one is keeping track of time now) that a giant asteroid narrowly missed Earth.

    In June, science and common sense just got thrown straight out the window and somehow wearing masks became a political thing, but then a whole lot of people realized the south was actually the most unpatriotic thing ever and actually lost the civil war, and there are a large amount of people who feel that statues they don’t even know the name of are needed for … history reasons….. but then everyone sort of remembered there was a pandemic, but then decided that not wearing a mask was somehow a God given right (still haven’t found that part in the bible or even in the constitution), but then scientists announced they found a mysterious undiscovered mass at the center of the earth, and everyone was like DON’T YOU DARE TOUCH IT, but then everyone took a pause to realize that people actually believed Gone With The Wind was like non-fiction, but then it was also announced that there is a strange radio single coming from somewhere in the universe that repeats itself every so many days, and everyone was like DON’T YOU DARE ATTEMPT TO COMMUNICATE WITH IT, but then America reopened from the shut down that actually wasn’t even a shut down, and so far, things have gone spectacularly not that great, but everyone is on Facebook arguing that masks kill because no one knows how breathing works, but then Florida was like hold my beer and let me show you how we’re number one in all things, including new Not Corona Beer Corona Virus. Trump decides now is a good time to ask the Supreme Court to shut down ObamaCare because what better time to do so than in the middle of a pandemic, but then we learned there was a massive dust cloud coming straight at us from the Sahara Desert, which is totally normal, but this is 2020, so the ghost mummy thing is most likely in that dust cloud, but then I learned of meth-gators, and I’m like that is so not on my f-ing 2020 Bingo card, but then we learned that the Congo’s worse ever Ebola outbreak is over, and we were all like, there was an Ebola outbreak that was the worst ever?

    In July…. Aliens? Zeus? Asteroids? Artificial Intelligence becomes self aware?
    Also, why didn’t I know about the whale in the Amazon?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  87. 88. I’m still holding out hope for zombie apocalypse, though I hear ‘invasion by Decepticons’ is a dark horse favorite.

    Capsaicin Addict (041266)

  88. Can’t you see that Trump has undermined the conservative cause with his divisive rhetoric and professional wrestler preening?

    What “Conservative Cause”? I live in the real world. Someone needs to fight the Liberal/Left, the Democrats, and implement conservative/patriotic policies. Style is irrelevant, unless your goal is to be a good loser.

    Secondly, if I want to listen/read/watch attacks on Trump I can go to every TV network, NPR Radio, and almost every Newspaper and Magazine in the USA. Joining in with 95% of the Media, to attack Trump isn’t “Brave” – its not even interesting.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  89. but then WHO decided to give this virus a name COVID-19, which confused some really important people in charge of, like, our lives, into thinking there were 18 other versions before it,

    There were six, four of them that usually gave people nothing more serious than the cmmmon cold, and, by giving people partial immunity, may be responsible for the zero death rate in Vietnam and low death rate in other places in Asia.

    Two very serious, SARS and MERS but more easily contained. SARS is extinct, but MERS (a more serious disease than SARS) survives in camels in Saudi Arabia.

    There are also a lot of versions that infect only various animals, like chickens.

    The people in charge were not confused. They didn’t call it Covid for a long time.

    Sammy Finkelman (b4888e)

  90. Part of the concern of Trump’s “Style” and “Rhetoric” is just a cover for dislike of his policies. If you’re a fake Con like Jonah Goldberg or David French the easy way out is to criticize Trump’s Character or “Vulgarity”. But a lot of it, is the unserious character of Conservatives. You get the feeling they don’t really care about winning or implementing any conservative policies or even stopping the Left. Its all a game to them, and losing with style is more important than real life results.

    But some of us actually care about the real world, and look at horror on what the D’s are going to do when they get in Power in 2021. The riots, lockdowns, and Biden’s left-wing rhetoric/platform are a preview of coming attractions. Who knows, it might get so bad that the Capital Gains tax rate might go up. So, even the Never Trumpers will by crying.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  91. . Atlanta’s mayor wants to go back to total lockdown and has ordered it. Kemp said his order overrules hers. The lawsuit applies to masks and this total lockdown thing. Note that the total lockdown order in Atlanta is simply being ignored.

    How lucky GA is to have a Governor that stops the craziness instead of endorsing it. Newsome and the Oregon Governor have locked their states down despite low levels of CV-19, and will destroy every small business they can. The citizens of those states just ACCEPT, and are sheep. They’ll baa baa all the way to the poor house.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  92. 53. Kishnevi (280ffd) — 7/16/2020 @ 5:25 pm

    IOW that policy of sending patients back to nursing homes had a lot less impact on the death rate in NY than people have claimed.

    I don;t know that it’s claimed it had an impact on the overall death rate – it mostly would have zero effct ecause people in nursing who went to hospitals only saw staff by that time – the accusation is that it was responsible for the death rate in nursing homes

    A low percentage overall means that a lot of other people got exposed.

    72. Kishnevi (70222c) — 7/16/2020 @ 8:03 pm

    It’s my understanding that those patients sent to nursing homes in New York were already residents of those facilities.

    I think (do not know) that’s mostly true, but nursing homes also accept patients for rehabilitation – who need continuing care, but not hospitalization.

    Sammy Finkelman (b4888e)

  93. 93. rcocean (2e1c02) — 7/17/2020 @ 7:48 am

    Newsome and the Oregon Governor have locked their states down despite low levels of CV-19,

    To keep it low.

    My feeling is that the measures taken are not enough, or are not and will not be abided by 100%, and/or are not focused on super spreading events.

    Sammy Finkelman (b4888e)

  94. 60. Gryph (08c844) — 7/16/2020 @ 6:29 pm

    Coronavirus diseases have never been vaccinated for yet, although it hasn’t been for lack of trying, particularly in cattle and hogs.

    Probably mostly because it was not worth the financial investment to put the vaccines through the drug approval process, and maybe there were too many variants, or maybe there was not enough of an outbreak to test it out on.

    And look at this problem with vaccines:

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/tthis-chicken-vaccine-makes-virus-dangerous [typo needed in URL]

    Chickens vaccinated against Marek’s disease rarely get sick. But the vaccine does not prevent them from spreading Marek’s to unvaccinated birds.

    “With the hottest strains, every unvaccinated bird dies within 10 days. There is no human virus that is that hot. Ebola, for example, doesn’t kill everything in 10 days.”

    In fact, rather than stop fowl from spreading the virus, the vaccine allows the disease to spread faster and longer than it normally would, a new study finds. The scientists now believe that this vaccine has helped this chicken virus become uniquely virulent. (Note: it only harms fowl). The study was published on Monday in the journal PLOS Biology.

    This is the first time that this virus-boosting phenomenon, known as the imperfect vaccine hypothesis, has been observed experimentally.

    The reason this is a problem for Marek’s disease is because the vaccine is “leaky.” A leaky vaccine is one that keeps a microbe from doing serious harm to its host, but doesn’t stop the disease from replicating and spreading to another individual. On the other hand, a “perfect” vaccine is one that sets up lifelong immunity that never wanes and blocks both infection and transmission.

    It’s important to note childhood vaccines for polio, measles, mumps, rubella and smallpox aren’t leaky; they are considered “perfect” vaccines. As such, they are in no way in danger of falling prey to this phenomenon.

    But the results do raise the questions for some human vaccines that are leaky – such as malaria, and other agricultural vaccines, such as the one being used against avian influenza, or bird flu.

    And the virus mutated, still protectin vaccinated chickens but killing more unvaccinated ones.

    “Previously, a hot strain was so nasty, it wiped itself out.”

    They are probably going to avoid live virus vaccines here.

    Sammy Finkelman (b4888e)

  95. Dustin (d0158a) — 7/16/2020 @ 4:38 pm

    I agree Taiwan has done an amazing job. they have a very different culture there, for a lot of reasons.

    I think Taiwan, and Thailand and most othwr places in southeast Asia, ad even Yunnan provice in China, probably had a large number of people infected by a cousin of Covid-19, one or more of human coronoviruses #1-4, or what you could call the cowpox version of Covid-19.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/world/asia/coronavirus-thailand-photos.html

    Dr. Wiput Phoolcharoen, a public health expert at Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok who is researching an outbreak of the coronavirus in Pattani in southern Thailand, noted that more than 90 percent of those who tested positive there were asymptomatic, much higher than normal.

    “What we are studying now is the immune system,” he said.

    The most likely answer should be obvious: previous infection by coronoviruses numbers 1 through 4, to such a extent there is almost herd immunity.

    If that’s the case, this didn’t come close to happening in Wuhan.

    Sammy Finkelman (b4888e)

  96. re films apparently blink (the adam sandler film) the dragon film with christian bale, and I think pacific rim, are set in that year in part,

    narciso (7404b5)

  97. Fighting for the Scarface snowpile and the import mag models perhaps:
    http://www.yahoo.com/news/mnuchin-kudlow-epic-clash-over-234333474.html

    urbanleftbehind (f01bca)

  98. Military medics deploy in California, Texas as virus surges
    …….
    In California, military doctors, nurses and other health care specialists were being deployed to eight hospitals facing staffing shortages amid a record-breaking case numbers. In Houston, an 86-person Army medical team worked to take over a wing of United Memorial Medical Center.

    Texas reported 10,000 new cases for the third straight day Thursday and 129 additional deaths. California, meanwhile, reported its largest two-day total of confirmed cases, nearly 20,000, along with 258 deaths over 48 hours. There are more than 8,000 people in hospitals who have either tested positive for the coronavirus or are suspected to have it.
    …….
    In Miami-Dade, which is Florida’s most populous county and the current epicenter of the outbreak, more than 3,100 new coronavirus cases were reported on Thursday. The state, meanwhile, reached another ominous record, with 156 virus deaths, and a staggering 13,965 new cases.
    …….
    Sure sounds like they have it under control to me.

    Rip Murdock (b3ba2e)

  99. demolition man, was closer to the point, anybody figure how to use the shells?

    narciso (7404b5)

  100. you want more of this

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/07/man-accused-of-punching-nypd-chief-other-officers-released-without-bail/

    hang with angela davis and vote for biden,

    narciso (7404b5)

  101. State and local leaders issue grim warnings as U.S. cases shatter records and deaths rise.
    …….
    More than 75,600 cases were reported on Thursday, according to a New York Times database, the 11th time in the past month that the U.S. daily record was broken. The previous single-day record, 68,241 cases, was announced last Friday.y

    The number of daily cases has more than doubled since June 24, when the country registered 37,014 cases after a lull in the outbreak had kept the previous record, 36,738, standing for two months. Daily virus fatalities had decreased slightly until last week, when they began rising again.

    Four states — Idaho, Nevada, Oregon and Texas — set single-day case records on Thursday. And three states set single-day death records on Thursday — Florida, South Carolina and Texas — with Florida and Texas alone combining for more than 300.
    …….
    Yeah, it’s under control..

    Rip Murdock (b3ba2e)

  102. 97. It might even be that there’s another version of the coronovirus common cold virus out there, that hasn’t been “discovered” that might give more spilloer immunity than coronovirus numbers 1 through 4.

    About the Marek virus vaccine for chickens. I don’t know that that’s a live virus. The idea here s similar to antibiotic resistance: the virus mutations become prevalent. It took years for the Marek virus.

    The coronovirus mutates slowly, unlike the flu. So that would take several years at least to become a probblem.

    There are several other possible problems with a vaccine that wouldn’t be caught until a lot of people had been given it and then encountered the virus..

    Sammy Finkelman (b4888e)

  103. 90… that last paragraph sums it up well…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  104. “you want more of this

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/07/man-accused-of-punching-nypd-chief-other-officers-released-without-bail/

    If you want more of this thing that’s happening under Trump, vote for Biden.

    Davethulhu (9d0524)

  105. Great news – we’re now in striking distance of South Africa for the most new cases per capita!

    Suck it Brazil!

    Dave (1bb933)

  106. “If you want more of this thing that’s happening in a city controlled by Democrats, vote for Biden.“

    fyp
    _

    Minneapolis
    Chicago
    Seattle
    NYC
    Baltimore
    Detroit
    etc.
    etc.
    etc.

    harkin (5af287)

  107. Trump wants to run like he’s not the incumbent.

    Davethulhu (9d0524)

  108. Trump wants to run like he’s not the incumbent.

    Democrats like to pretend only Trump is an incumbent.

    beer ‘n pretzels (4d3c08)

  109. lol have they let the challenger out of protective custody?
    _

    harkin (5af287)

  110. Because when Biden was an incumbent for 48 years, things were so very awesome.

    beer ‘n pretzels (4d3c08)

  111. “Because when Biden was an incumbent for 48 years, things were so very awesome.”

    Thank you Trump for reversing 48 years of decline.

    Davethulhu (9d0524)

  112. I wonder if Taiwan would have handled this data differently?

    Maybe not the comparison you want to make.

    Taiwan (a nation of 24 million) had a grand total of one new case in the past week.

    Dave (1bb933)

  113. Punxsutawney Joe

    Colonel Haiku (f2f14e)

  114. I think Taiwan, and Thailand and most othwr places in southeast Asia, ad even Yunnan provice in China, probably had a large number of people infected by a cousin of Covid-19, one or more of human coronoviruses #1-4, or what you could call the cowpox version of Covid-19.

    Perhaps. I imagine most of us have been infected with some kind of cousin of it though. Diseases might not spread as fast as COVID 19 but they do spread.

    One can’t overlook the widespread use of common sense measures to slow infections, such as masks, and how our much more divided people refuse to be a single people about literally anything. It explains a lot.

    Dustin (d0158a)

  115. You don’t understand the comment. I won’t bother explaining it, because it is obvious.

    BuDuh (b4ab71)

  116. 110. I see a whole lot of people doing the ‘see no evil, hear no evil’ routine about this.

    Weren’t we giving money to the states for every ‘confirmed’ Covid case? I really hope that was fake news.

    Capsaicin Addict (041266)

  117. rcocean: “Part of the concern of Trump’s “Style” and “Rhetoric” is just a cover for dislike of his policies. If you’re a fake Con like Jonah Goldberg or David French the easy way out is to criticize Trump’s Character or “Vulgarity”. But a lot of it, is the unserious character of Conservatives. You get the feeling they don’t really care about winning or implementing any conservative policies or even stopping the Left. Its all a game to them, and losing with style is more important than real life results.”

    Yes…indeed….winning….and not those fake results. I always treasure such serious analysis

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  118. One of the things that bothers me about all this is that Google and Apple have combined in an anonymity-preserving tracking system, using Bluetooth, but it’s really not being used.

    The way it works, if you’ve enabled it, your phone would collect up time-stamped numeric tokens from the phones around you. If you were diagnosed with Covid-19, there was a system where the relevant tokens would be translated by the local health authorities into text messages to the affected individuals.

    The hitch was that it required local health authorities to have their act together, and to agree to the anonymity inherent to the system. It turns out it’s a big hitch.

    https://www.wired.com/story/apple-google-bluetooth-contact-tracing-covid-19/

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  119. Unlike the Apple-Google system, which does not record location data, the two state apps currently available (Rhode Island and the Dakotas) do exactly that, which is not only intrusive and subject to abuse, but also unnecessary.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  120. If you think an anecdote proves that covid is being overcounted, there’s another that proves it’s being undercounted.

    We recently received the death certificate for my mother, who died May 4 in an assisted living facility near New York City. “Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome” was the primary cause. And the secondary — no surprise — was “suspected COVID-19.”

    Though my mother almost certainly died of COVID-19 (she met the clinical case definition), her death was, as far as I can tell, not counted — and certainly will not be counted if the White House gets its way. Unfortunately, counting COVID deaths and cases has been turned into a battle of semantics, chance, bureaucracy, politics and immediate circumstance, rather than science.

    https://khn.org/news/covid-death-certificate-my-mother-died-of-the-coronavirus-its-time-she-was-counted/

    Using statistical analysis (like “excess deaths”) rather than anecdotes shows that covid deaths are very likely being undercounted.

    Davethulhu (9d0524)

  121. The reverse is more likely true

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/387643/

    Narciso (7404b5)

  122. Frankly, if we are going to lambaste governors for cluelessness in this pandemic, every last state health official should be required to explain why they are not adopting the Apple/Google system and instead trying to write (HA!) their own phone software.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  123. ‘Thulhu–

    This is something that has been happening world-wide. Trump may be the current stat-juking politician in the WH, but the attitude is hardly unique to him. China, for example, has lied constantly about this.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  124. But, yes, the danger of over-counting and/or under-counting is really measured by the honesty of local politicians and their perception of benefits. On a scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is a pure truth-teller. I expect most politicians to be below a 5.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  125. her death was, as far as I can tell, not counted

    I sorry she lost her 96 year old mom. Very sad. But her article makes it clear that her mom was never tested through decisions by not only the care facility, but her mom, and the author.

    as far as I can tell

    The motorcycle youth death doesn’t rely on speculation. Maybe the poor lady who lost her mom can dig deeper, get an actual verdict, and write a follow up.

    BuDuh (ed3120)

  126. “The motorcycle youth death doesn’t rely on speculation. Maybe the poor lady who lost her mom can dig deeper, get an actual verdict, and write a follow up.”

    You’re missing the point.

    Davethulhu (9d0524)

  127. Americans Increasingly Dislike How Republican Governors Are Handling The Coronavirus Outbreak
    …….
    Gallup recently found that Americans in the 26 states governed by Republicans are souring on their leaders’ approach to the public health crisis, while sentiment remains steadily positive among residents of the 24 states governed by Democrats. In fact, over the past month, the share of respondents who agreed that their governor cared about the safety and health of their community fell by 8 points, from 61 percent to 53 percent, in states where a Republican is governor; opinion in Democratic-run states hovered around 65 percent, despite some movement week to week.
    …..
    ……Change Research’s polling of six battleground states found especially poor numbers for Republican governors in two states where the number of coronavirus cases surged in the first half of July: Florida and Arizona. In Change’s polling, 57 percent disapproved of Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’s handling of the outbreak, and a whopping 71 percent disapproved of Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey’s response. Additional polling in Arizona and Florida second these findings. OH Predictive Insights found that opinion of Ducey’s approach went from a net positive in June (59 percent approved, 37 percent disapproved) to a net negative in July (35 percent approved, 63 percent disapproved). Likewise, surveys by CBS News/YouGov found 53 percent of Floridians said DeSantis was doing a somewhat or very bad job and 62 percent of Arizonans said the same of Ducey.
    ……
    …… Gov. Greg Abbott has gotten better marks than either DeSantis or Ducey. A CBS News/YouGov survey, for instance, found that public opinion was split as to how well he was handling the crisis: 50 percent said he was doing a good job and 50 percent said he was doing a bad job…….
    ……
    ……[O]b the whole, Americans have a somewhat more favorable view of the way Democratic governors have handled the pandemic than the way Republican governors are responding. In late June, a consortium of universities conducted a poll of governors’ handling of the coronavirus across all 50 states and found that the median approval rating for Democratic governors was about 55 percent, compared to 49 percent for Republican governors…….
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (b3ba2e)

  128. Can’t you see that Trump has undermined the conservative cause with his divisive rhetoric and professional wrestler preening?

    🙂 🙂 🙂

    Which should show you just how weak, empty and hollow that fluorinated ’cause’ had become. It fell faster than a French rifle– or if you like, a Confederate statue. ‘In case of emergency, break glass and shout “Reagan”‘ doesn’t work any more. The goal: neutering the modern conservative movement into irrelevancy. They’re fast becoming a shrinking clique of cranky old pickled pundits–[ have you seen George Will lately?!]. Trump is a national infrastructure project all his own: temporary inconvenience, permanent improvement.

    Welcome to 1964.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  129. You’re missing the point.

    Not at all. I posted a link to a verified covid death count. You posted an article full of speculation as a counter argument.

    BuDuh (ed3120)

  130. I posted a link to a verified covid death count.

    You posted unconfirmed hearsay:

    “I don’t think so. I have to double-check,” Pino said.

    Dave (1bb933)

  131. He had to double check if the “man’s data was removed,” Dave. There is no question that the man was counted.

    You are wrong.

    BuDuh (ed3120)

  132. @132: Typical pollster BS, with leading questions.

    “Cares about safety and health of my community”

    As if that’s the only metric to judge Covid response. No questions like “Cares about minimizing the economic impact.”

    beer ‘n pretzels (4d3c08)

  133. “Not at all. I posted a link to a verified covid death count. You posted an article full of speculation as a counter argument.”

    You posted a single data point and implied a trend. It’s not difficult to find anecdotes both ways. That’s my point.

    Davethulhu (9d0524)

  134. You posted a single data point and implied a trend.

    I wonder why you didn’t quote my implying a trend? Actually I know why. Because it doesn’t exist.

    BuDuh (ed3120)

  135. “I wonder why you didn’t quote my implying a trend? Actually I know why. Because it doesn’t exist.”

    Oh, sorry, my mistake. So instead of 141,000 covid deaths, we’re at 140,999. What a relief.

    Davethulhu (9d0524)

  136. It is doubly your mistake because once again you prove you don’t understand my comment.

    Looks like everyone is getting out of joint again. Relax. If you can’t figure it out right now, take a break, and come at it again later with fresh eyes.

    BuDuh (ed3120)

  137. “It is doubly your mistake because once again you prove you don’t understand my comment.

    Looks like everyone is getting out of joint again. Relax. If you can’t figure it out right now, take a break, and come at it again later with fresh eyes.”

    Nah, I understand it completely. If I was actually wrong, you’d explain why, rather than this coy sidestepping.

    Davethulhu (9d0524)

  138. You are wrong. And you should be able to see that. I won’t waste time going down your clearly incorrect path. I have seen you utilize this trick before. It is a shame.

    BuDuh (ed3120)

  139. Covid death count New York State:

    July 11: 0

    July 13: 5

    July 14: 9

    July 15: 14

    July 16: 10

    Total deaths after testing positive (cumulative): 25,024 – including 16,254 in New York City.

    Number of deaths counted by the city: 23,377 which were comprised of 18,758 confirmed deaths and 4,619 probable deaths.

    Total testing positive: 405,551 (776 positive tests on July 16) Subtotal for just New York City: 220,734 (367 positive tests on July 16,)

    Total number tested: 4,999,449. Subtotal tested in New York City: 2,245,100

    Currently hospitalized with the coronavirus, as of July 16: 765. July 13, 14, 15: 820, 831 and 813 respectively.

    Patients in intensive care units, as of July 16: 179. Three preceding days: 167, 165 and 165.

    Sammy Finkelman (8ac22c)

  140. Total CV-19 deaths in NY state = 32, 575

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  141. My feeling is that the measures taken are not enough, or are not and will not be abided by 100%, and/or are not focused on super spreading events.

    Yes, we all have feelings, don’t we? I suppose the overall good should be discussed. But Oregon/Wash/Calf seem Ok with it, so be it. Guess if all the people out of work cared, they’d protest. Or maybe they’re just Democrats, and Democrats always ACCEPT.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  142. 96. Coronavirus vaccines have never been effective in cattle either, where the approval process is far less riggorous. There is something about coronavirus morphology that just makes it extraordinarily difficult to vaccinate against.

    Gryph (08c844)

  143. Whembly, you are wasting your time posting any science here. They aren’t interested.

    1DaveMac (16cd0f)

  144. The CDCs credibility has been completely destroyed. They have changed there position on masks multiple times. There models Were not only incorrect, but grossly so. ‘Masks trap 95% of virus particles”. The problem with this is that the vast majority of virus particles die before they infect anything else. If 1 particle in a million survives to infect,, that is sufficient to spread the infection when virus particles reproduce in the trillions and quadrillions.

    1DaveMac (16cd0f)

  145. Sadly, the state Supreme Court granted Reichsstatthalter Andy Beshear’s (NSDAP-KY) requests, and voided all injunctions against his COVID-19 executive orders.

    Given the need for a clear and consistent statewide public health policy and recognizing that the Kentucky legislature has expressly given the governor broad executive powers in a public health emergency, the court orders a stay of all orders of injunctive relief until such time as the various orders are properly before the court with a full record of any evidence and pleadings considered by the lower courts.

    Translation: no decisions will be reached for a couple of months, and the Reichsstatthalter’s executive orders making mask wearing mandatory expire in thirty days, meaning that the order will remain in force and unchallenged. Herr Beshear can, and probably will, extend the order as the thirty day limit approaches.

    The Governor had previously asked, cajoled, urged, you name it, for Kentuckians to wear masks in public, something to which I did not object. When compliance with his requests was not 100%, well, Hell, dictators do not like not being obeyed, he issued his Führerbefehle making them mandatory.

    The Dana in Kentucky (229a56)

  146. New IHME Forecasts Show More Than 200,000 US Deaths by November 1

    In its first projections of COVID-19 deaths out to November 1, the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) at the University of Washington is forecasting more than 200,000 deaths in the United States.

    The forecast shows 208,255 deaths (with a range of 186,087 to 244,541). Those numbers drop to 162,808 (157,217 to 171,193), if at least 95% of people wear masks in public.

    “We can now see the projected trajectory of the epidemic into the fall, and many states are expected to experience significant increases in cases and deaths in September and October,” said IHME Director Dr. Christopher Murray. “However, as we all have come to recognize, wearing masks can substantially reduce transmission of the virus. Mask mandates delay the need for re-imposing closures of businesses and have huge economic benefits. Moreover, those who refuse masks are putting their lives, their families, their friends, and their communities at risk.”

    IHME’s new projections include the re-imposition of strong social distancing mandates when deaths per day reach a level of 8 per one million people, comparing that with a forecast if no action is taken, and a forecast if social distancing mandates are combined with at least 95% mask wearing in public spaces.
    ………
    “The US didn’t experience a true end to the first wave of the pandemic,” Murray said. “This will not spare us from a second surge in the fall, which will hit particularly hard in states currently seeing high levels of infections.”
    ……….
    The forecasts by state (assuming social distancing mandates will be re-imposed when deaths reach 8 per million) are:
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (b30750)

  147. 151. Yeah yeah. Cause all the other forecasts were just spot-****ing-on, right? I’m beginning to think there are some people out there who are hoping the pandemic gets worse just so they don’t have to admit how badly they ****ed up.

    Gryph (08c844)

  148. So you apparently think everyone in the country should be forced to wear masks, even in counties where the ratio of infected to non infected is less than 1 per thousand, even when masks have been shown to be marginally effective? I can see masks mandates on a county by county basis, but for an entire state? I guess we are finding out who the totalitarians are.

    1DaveMac (16cd0f)

  149. 153. Let me make one thing crystal clear while this thread still has any attention: I don’t like Governor Kemp’s banning of mask mandates any more than I like being forced to wear them. This looks like an effort on Kemp’s part to be popular with the anti-mask crowd and I don’t approve of that, either.

    Gryph (08c844)

  150. I have actually went on CDCs website and read all the papers they use to support their position. But like any bureaucratic organization the tend not to post any papers that would tend to falsify that position. You have to read other scientific journals and actually understand some of the science involved before coming to any definitive conclusions. The science around viruses and infectious diseases is extremely complex. You are dealing with the complexities of immune system response, adaptive mutations, the biology of viruses, adaptive noisy human networks and system components that are not directly observable but can only be inferred. Appeals to bureaucratic authority on complex subjects like this from people who have little knowledge of the science involved can be extremely tiresome. Politicians and bureaucrats are very bad at these kinds of problems because they wish to appear to be doing something, even if the something that is being done is minimally effective.

    1DaveMac (16cd0f)


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