Patterico's Pontifications

6/24/2020

Madam, You Knew I Was a Snake When You First Picked Me Up

Filed under: General — JVW @ 12:29 pm



[guest post by JVW]

In an unsurprising turn of events the “mostly peaceful” protest of last week have turned surly and violent, as the Antifa and radical crowd now have stepped in steer the agenda in a nihilistic direction. The latest craze among the wokest of the woke has been tearing down statues. It started with the usual suspects, Confederate generals and politicians, but has since morphed to include those thought to be insensitive to indigenous peoples from 1492 to 1900 (i.e., every single white settler), and now, in the ultimate manifestation of what motivates much of this movement, Western culture itself.

And if Democrats thought they would stand by and cheerlead the “mostly peaceful” protesters who would be content to recite the litany of trendy social justice blather, about two-thirds of which would be reflected in this year’s party platform, and then watch approvingly as the crowd disassembled to go register voters and volunteer for campaigns, well, they appear to have guessed wrongly. Leftist fortresses such as New York, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Seattle, and Minneapolis have seen some of the worst rioting — which has in fact led to deaths — and last night Wisconsin Democrats in Madison got a taste of what happens when you appease the mob:

Wisconsin protesters toppled statues, vandalized buildings and are accused of assaulting a Democratic state senator on video at the State Capitol Tuesday night after daylong protests turned violent.

Both Gov. Tony Evers and Madison Mayor Satya Rhodes-Conway condemned the violence and destruction Wednesday morning. Meanwhile, a spokeswoman for the protest group issued a list of demands.

The violence began after a group of 200 to 300 protesters marched through downtown Madison, initially blocking intersections and obstructing driveways, Madison Police Department said in an incident report. The situation escalated when the group reached the State Capitol grounds.

Statues of Lady Forward, and Col. Hans Christian Heg, who fought and died during the Civil War on the Union side, were torn down and removed from the grounds. Both statues were later recovered, a city official told the Wisconsin State Journal, noting that protesters had removed the leg of Heg.

Protesters also broke the windows of multiple buildings on the grounds and tossed in a Molotov cocktail into the City County Building, police said. The group tried to break into the State Capitol building, but officers repelled them with pepper spray.

State Sen. Tim Carpenter, D-Milwaukee, was walking to the Capitol building late Tuesday when he encountered the protesters and began recording them. Carpenter said that he was “assaulted and beat up” by eight to 10 people as he took the video. He shared the 11-second footage on Twitter.

Lest you believe otherwise, Sen. Carpenter appears to be a down-the-line Wisconsin progressive, so the ass-kicking he received was more likely than not solely due to his age and his race, not because the rioters objected to his voting record (if indeed they recognized him which I am sure they did not). As I mentioned earlier, this new grievance mob is targeting every monument which alludes to Western culture, so that’s why we see statues of Lady Forward and of abolitionist and Union Army officer Hans Christian Heg toppled. This action nicely comports with those taken in San Francisco, Portland, St. Louis, Philadelphia, and Boston, among many other cities, as well as in countries such as England, Scotland, and Belgium.

When a Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville unsurprisingly devolved into a free-for-all leading to the death of a young woman, the chattering classes immediately used those events to discredit the conservative movement in general and the Trump Administration in particular (and yes, the President’s inarticulate explanation — through purposely misconstrued — didn’t help matters any). Will the beating of Sen. Carpenter, who was treated for a probable concussion and then released, cause the same folks to finally determine the protests have always had this undercurrent of angry nihilists seeking opportunities to vent their rage? Will they begin to connect the hands-off hyper-tolerant treatment of flagrant lawbreaking by Democrat mayors and governors to the subsequent chaos and destruction? Or will we continue to observe the clear double standard that violence in the aftermath of right-wing protests is attributable to the ideology of the organizers and their political supporters, while violence in the aftermath of left-wing protests is due to unaffiliated bad apples spoiling it for everyone?

You can probably guess where I will place my bets, but I wonder if there are some independents and moderates who may dislike the way Donald Trump has governed the past three-plus years, but fear what would happen if the people behind these protests are brought back into full power.

– JVW

139 Responses to “Madam, You Knew I Was a Snake When You First Picked Me Up”

  1. The statue of Heg was damaged in the fracas, with one of its legs being broken off. Here’s an idea for a fundraiser to fix the statue: go to a beer distributor and beg a keg for a Heg’s peg leg.

    Yeah, that was really awful, but it was initially in the body of my post so just be thankful that I left it out and settled for placing it here.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  2. When you lose control of the people who are are there solely as destroyers, it’s time to go home.

    Nic (896fdf)

  3. this new grievance mob is targeting every monument which alludes to Western culture, so that’s why we see statues of Lady Forward and of abolitionist and Union Army officer Hans Christian Heg toppled

    It proves they’re historically illiterate and stupid as well.

    Time123 (653992)

  4. JVW and clicked through to your previous post and was surprised to find you’d made a prediction. I’ve pasted it below to see how well it’s aged.

    Regardless of your views of the specifics of Trump’s comments, they have been a giant distraction from moving policy forward on things like ObamaCare repeal or tax reform. Senator Scott isn’t making headlines for talking tax reform today. He’s making headlines for criticizing the comments from the President of his own party.

    This keeps happening. And guess what?

    It’s never going to stop, as long as Donald Trump is President.

    Looks like you’re 50/50. Trump’s statements do get in the way. But the GOP has stopped criticizing him.

    Time123 (653992)

  5. OH! and criminal. The people that assaulted the Sen. need to be caught and charged.

    Time123 (653992)

  6. When the Dr Frankensteins of the Woke Laboratory realize the Monster is not following orders……

    Michelle Goldberg
    @michelleinbklyn

    It’s part of the social justice catechism that intentions matter less than effect. So what is the effect of pulling down and beheading a statue of a famous abolitionist?
    __ _

    Chris Hayes
    @chrislhayes

    So the Madison crowd last night: knocked over the statue of an abolitionist immigrant who died fighting for the union, a statue commemorating women’s suffrage and beat up a 60 year old state senator and left him lying on the ground.
    __ _

    Sean Seeräuber
    @raffine9
    ·
    I wrote recently that today’s woketariat are ignorant of history. Dismiss the Boomers if you wish, but read the Port Huron statement and compare it to any podcast/instagram

    __ _
    __ _

    It proves they’re historically illiterate and stupid as well.“

    They aren’t looting libraries.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  7. Democrats created this so only Democrats can stop it. In the meantime, grab the popcorn…

    Hoi Polloi (121542)

  8. When it’s bad it’s infiltrating right-wingers, depend on it.
    __

    Alex Zelinski
    @A_Zelinski

    The pro-mob side gotta decide if the violence is justified or if it’s undercover right-wing provocateurs, because I’m getting conflicted messages here.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  9. Not sure about Democrats created this…but I think it get’s a lot better if Democrats add some leadership. I know Biden’s strategy of letting Trump self immolate is working….but the country needs leadership here.

    Time123 (653992)

  10. Trump has been totally ineffective at addressing the legitimate concerns of the peaceful demonstrators AND at keeping the violent ones in check.

    Why would anyone vote for more of the same?

    Dave (1bb933)

  11. I honestly do try to temper my conspiracy-theory notions — at least to some degree I do — but it’s hard not to see a pretty huge conspiracy here. The deaths of Ahmuad Aubrey and George Floyd were awful, and there was almost universal condemnation of the police behavior here from all parties: left, right, and center. But with this being an election year and with the Democrats having a rather uninspiring candidate atop their ticket those deaths had to be leveraged into a rallying point, so here came BLM backed by George Soros money as well as the various ties they have to people and organizations within the Democrat party, and lo and behold we now have a resurgence of calls for reparations, separate black spaces, affirmative action programs, law enforcement defunding, further decriminalization of antisocial behaviors, and a whole host of other leftist goals. It’s as if it was bad having strong bipartisan consensus on the need for police reform, so let’s add a whole bunch of poison pills so we can make this into a purely progressive movement.

    All the while, Democrat politicians cheer them on and pledge solidarity. Then suddenly this movement turns violent and anarchic, and here are the same Democrats telling us out of one side of their mouth that this is the authentic voice of the historically disenfranchised and then out of the other side of their mouth that these are outside agitators who have nothing to do with the legitimate protests. It’s the most amazing high-wire act since Democrats were simultaneously both for and against the Iraq War. Now, among the fringe radical community there is even an emerging belief that all of the violence in recent days is a COINTELPRO action designed to discredit the movement. It probably won’t be too long before that talking point is being repeated by our beloved crazy niece, Sheldon Whitehouse, Jay Inslee, Lori Lightfoot, and the rest of the professional plunderers.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  12. Why would anyone vote for more of the same?

    I get that. But by the same token, why would one reward destructive protests by putting into power the sort of people who continually condone them and surrender to them? It’s truly a Morton’s Fork of a choice.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  13. I say this in President Trump’s defense (shudder): two years ago he was arguing that if you take down Confederate statues eventually you will hear demands to take down statues of Washington and Jefferson (and, though he didn’t mention them, Grant, Lincoln, et al.). The bureaucratic/academic/media elite laughed at what a silly notion that is, but look at where things stand today.

    Where is Joe Biden defending statues of the Founding Fathers, slaveholders though they may have been? Where is Barack Obama doing the same? The only Democrat who seems to be putting a toe into the fray is Andrew Cuomo, who is making a tepid defense of monuments to Christopher Columbus, noting that they have historical meaning to the Italian-American people of New York.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  14. I agree that terrorism only works if good people let it work. If someone throws chains up on a statue and tears it down, that’s destroying part of our community. If we tolerate that or our leaders even cheer it, they are leading us in a predictably awful direction.

    Trump sees everything as an opportunity to divide and troll. His whole campaign started with claims Obama was secretly born in Africa. The “again” in MAGA isn’t Reagan. It’s Wallace. Combine trolling with 46 million unemployed people, and no matter who you blame, it’s not a surprise our cities are being destroyed.

    Where is Joe Biden defending statues of the Founding Fathers

    Good point.

    This is a great moment for Biden to unify, the way Obama pretended he would in 2004. By hiding, Biden conveniently keeps this election a referendum on a terrible man. It’s clever but it is also pathetic.

    Dustin (e3a6ae)

  15. HotAir has some plausible background information on the Madison riot.

    It was indeed intended to be violent from the start, and the organizers and participants should face justice.

    Dave (1bb933)

  16. It’s clever but it is also pathetic.

    It also means that even if he wins his chances of “healing” the country or “bringing us together” are damn near zero. But I would imagine his advisers are telling him that he can’t afford to lose any far-left votes this November.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  17. @JVW
    I think there’s a grouping of people with different interested who are broadly sympathetic to each other. While there’s disagreement that some want to go too far/not far enough they’re broadly on the same side. Into this mix are extremists from both the right and the left that want violence and chaos as well as straight up criminals that just want to smash things and steal stuff. I think I’m at the point where I’d say people have a point about excessive use of force & police violence, but as long as the extremists/criminals are under the banner I’m out. But this never has and probably never will happen to me.

    There’s a point to be made about the balance between historical relevance, historical contribution, reinforcing an evil message, and glorifying an evil man. No one on the left is making that point very well. Biden certainly isn’t. Hell Trump can’t even see that point. When he made that comment I don’t think he was saying the left will over reach. I think he was saying he didn’t see a difference in a statue to NBF and a statue to Grant.

    Part of this is exploitation that you theorized. Part is frustration with a quarantine. Part of it is just a desire to smash things, but there’s built up frustration that normal politics don’t result in meaningful change. I also understand that there’s a desire to refuse to work with people who won’t follow the rules. But when years of following the rules haven’t work there’s a temptation to view a plea process as just an excuse not to do anything.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  18. Biden, I suppose, also doesn’t want any more reminders of his friendships with ex-segregationists or his votes to restore citizenship to Confederate leaders. Just like Howard Dean will never again want anyone to recall that when he headed up the DNC he expressed a desire to win over “that guy with a Confederate flag on this pickup truck.”

    JVW (ee64e4)

  19. It was indeed intended to be violent from the start, and the organizers and participants should face justice.

    Thanks for the link, Dave.

    The folks who want to tear down Andrew Jackson’s statue in Washington DC vow to be there in force tomorrow at 7:00 pm Eastern time, and the White House has ordered out the National Guard to defend the statue. If the rioters are serious then this could be a nasty showdown, so I hope they have the good sense to stand down and be satisfied with the publicity they have gained.

    Remember when the big annual Democrat fundraising dinner in everyone’s town or county was called the Jefferson-Jackson Dinner? Wasn’t so long ago.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  20. I wonder if there are some independents and moderates who may dislike the way Donald Trump has governed the past three-plus years, but fear what would happen if the people behind these protests are brought back into full power.

    The violence is happening in the urban areas controlled by the left. The powers that be in these places aren’t doing much to stop it. I think it may get us more Trump.

    Mattsky (aa628b)

  21. We are a nation in pain, but we must not allow this pain to destroy us. We are a nation enraged, but we cannot allow our rage to consume us. Please stay safe. Please take care of each other.

    More presidential than anything Trump has ever said in his life.

    Dave (1bb933)

  22. It also means that even if he wins his chances of “healing” the country or “bringing us together” are damn near zero. But I would imagine his advisers are telling him that he can’t afford to lose any far-left votes this November.

    JVW (ee64e4) — 6/24/2020 @ 1:55 pm

    Trump is the best thing that ever happened to AOC, to far left agitators, to the opportunistic criminals in our cities. They would happily take the excuse to be ‘pure’ and try to sabotage Biden.

    That said, there are more normal men and women, who care about their families, than there are far left nuts. I would hope that Biden had more faith. In reality, this strategy of abiding is also very low risk for Biden, in ways DCSCA would happily explain again.

    Dustin (e3a6ae)

  23. Trump has been totally ineffective at addressing the legitimate concerns of the peaceful demonstrators AND at keeping the violent ones in check.“
    _

    How weird is it that so many people do not know which party wholly owns, operates and oversees the police in almost every urban center experiencing riots and looting?
    __ _

    “ Why would anyone vote for more of the same?”
    _

    See above
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  24. “ Trump is the best thing that ever happened to AOC, to far left agitators, to the opportunistic criminals in our cities.”
    __

    He’s not even close to the best thing compared to the delusional Far Left takeover of Urban Governance, Media and Academia.

    Wait a few more years (maybe just months) when the Forget History Woke Squads really get dug in.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  25. How weird is it that so many people think voting for Trump is the remedy for problems that Trump has done nothing to solve and everything to exacerbate?

    Dave (1bb933)

  26. In an unsurprising turn of events the “mostly peaceful” protest of last week have turned surly and violent,

    They were all peaceful after about June 2 to stop the meme that they were violent. But the people planning violence were still around.

    Of course statues are not private property.

    They are also trying to make the food packages on the grocery shelves lily white. Out with Aunt Jemima, down with Uncle Ben, (even though he is now supposed to be Chairman of the Board – like Trump naming a company after himself) out with Rastus, the Cream of Wheat chief’s original name, and Mrs. Butterworth can stay if she can prove she is white.

    Meanwhile nobody says a word about Betty Crocker, or Sara Lee, or even Colonel Sanders who looks like he might be wearing Confederate grey rather than Union blue. (He was actually from Indiana, bit married a southern white woman from Alabama) and was in the U.S. army from October 1906 till February 1907 (they must have discovered that he;d lied about his date of birth

    Sammy Finkelman (3102d6)

  27. The people on the far left don’t care about what their proposals would actually do.

    Maybe the finger-in-the-wind professional politicians don’t care either but they care about what most people think.

    The far left people don’t want too much competition for the same place on the political spectrum, and hope to be carried in by a wave.

    Sammy Finkelman (3102d6)

  28. You forgot one of Col Sanders’ best bits of trivia:

    Sanders was managing a Shell gas station in Nashville during the late 1920s and was at war with a competing Standard Oil station down the road. Matt Stewart, the owner of the Standard Oil station kept painting over a sign that was advertising Sanders’ business. Sanders and Stewart were both hot tempered men, and pretty soon Sanders threatened to shoot Stewart if he kept messing with his signs.

    Sanders was meeting with two district managers from Shell one day when they saw Stewart painting over the sign yet again. Sanders and the two men rushed down to stop him. Stewart saw the men coming, jumped off his painting ladder and started shooting. Robert Gibson, one of the Shell managers, was killed in a hail of Stewart’s bullets. Sanders grabbed Gibson’s gun off his dead body and returned fire along with the surviving manager, H. D. Shelburne.

    “Don’t shoot, Sanders! You’ve killed me!” Stewart reportedly said. Obviously, Sanders hadn’t killed Stewart but he was indeed wounded. And in the wake of the bloody mess all the surviving men were arrested. The case went to trial and both Shelburne and Sanders got off without serving any time. Matt Stewart on the other hand received 18 years for murdering Shell manager Robert Gibson.“

    https://gizmodo.com/no-colonel-sanders-never-killed-a-man-in-a-shootout-1651797965
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  29. 11. JVW (ee64e4) — 6/24/2020 @ 1:26 pm

    . It’s as if it was bad having strong bipartisan consensus on the need for police reform,

    It doesn’t help the Democratic Party.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/us/politics/congress-police-reform-senate.html

    Senate Democrats said on Tuesday that they would block Republicans’ attempts to advance a narrow bill to encourage police departments to revise their practices, rejecting the measure as “woefully inadequate” and setting up a clash that could mark the death of a fledgling congressional effort to address racial bias in law enforcement.

    Sammy Finkelman (3102d6)

  30. Colonel Sanders didn’t wear gray or blue; he wore white.

    Another James (0912e8)

  31. How weird is it that so many people think voting for Trump is the remedy for problems that Trump has done nothing to solve and everything to exacerbate?

    Again, I won’t necessarily disagree, but how would putting back into power the people under whose watch these problems festered and grew make anything better? One thing we saw in the Obama Era is that the left’s sense of triumphalism will lead it not only to ignore any opposition to its policies, but also to ascribe bad motives to the opposition and seek to drive it from the public square. That Overton Window sure narrows a great deal when the Democrats are ascendant.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  32. (He was actually from Indiana, bit married a southern white woman from Alabama) and was in the U.S. army from October 1906 till February 1907 (they must have discovered that he;d lied about his date of birth

    I’m think that he might not have been a colonel if he only spent five months in the army.

    Fun Colonel Sanders story: he would franchise his KFC restaurants, but the agreement stipulated that the franchisee had to do things to exact corporate standards or else the company could revoke the franchise. Col. Sanders was famously a stickler for details, and in the 1950s and 60s he was known to climb into a car with an aide and drive all across the country stopping in at KFC franchises and going over them with a fine tooth comb. He would ding them for not having a full napkin holder at a table, not having soap in the bathroom, not serving the chicken at a warm enough temperature — he allegedly was a hell of a tyrant and would absolutely terrorize these poor franchisees. It was so bad that once he left the owner would call all of the other restaurants in nearby towns to warn them that the Colonel was on the loose and might be headed their way. Even after selling the corporation he apparently would still travel to locations and berate the manager and/or owner if he thought things were being done incorrectly. Sounds like he was quite the character.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  33. The only D’s who have lost control here are the establishment D’s. This is a version of the establishment R’s losing control and us getting Trump. The radicals in the D camp haven’t been a secret. We’ve been hearing from the Bernie Bro’s, AOC, Omar, etc. for a while now. Few people listened. BLM told you at the beginning they were Marxist. Antifa tells you what they are by the name they pick and it’s historical context. The establishment D’s have been trying to use them but they are all old and getting long in the tooth.

    frosty (4c16b4)

  34. “This is a version of the establishment R’s losing control and us getting Trump. ”

    Yes, this is why we have Bernie Sanders as the Democratic nominee, and AOC as the Speaker of the house.

    Davethulhu (9921df)

  35. 30. Another James (0912e8) — 6/24/2020 @ 2:41 pm

    Colonel Sanders didn’t wear gray or blue; he wore white.

    True, but they can say it is gray. Protesters have done worse. I mean, complaining about U.S. Grant, and not over an anti-semitic order he once issued.. (which of course they are not concerned with, but that was the only strike against Grant.)

    They probably know too much about Colonel Sanders and what time he lived, or don’t have the imagination for that, though.

    Sammy Finkelman (3102d6)

  36. so the ass-kicking he received was more likely than not solely due to his age and his race,

    No, it was obviously because he was recording them, although perhaps someone else might have had some protective coloration, but I wouldn’t count on it. There are members of the media who are black, so they wouldn’t necessarily assume somebody black was on their side.

    Sammy Finkelman (3102d6)

  37. 32. The honorific “Kentucky Colonel” is bestowed on individuals residing in Kentucky on the basis of noteworthy accomplishments that the governor and/or secretary of state wishes to recognize. It has nothing to do with military service, although conspicuous bravery in the service of the national military has been the basis for Kentucky Colonel commissions in the past.

    To my knowledge, the only Kentucky Colonel who has ever milked the title for personal aggrandizement was Harland Sanders.

    Gryph (08c844)

  38. 32. JVW (ee64e4) — 6/24/2020 @ 2:59 pm

    I’m think [sic] that he might not have been a colonel if he only spent five months in the army.

    Well, he was actually a Kentucky colonel. I think in the National Guard, except really not that either.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel_Sanders

    The title ‘colonel’ was honorary – a Kentucky Colonel – not the military rank.

    https://www.kycolonels.org/

    The commission of Kentucky Colonel is the highest title of honor bestowed by the Governor of Kentucky. It is recognition of an individual’s noteworthy accomplishments and outstanding service to our community, state, and nation.

    I don’t know how the Governor of Kentucky can bestow that, except as a rank in the militia.

    I guess it’s like being knighted in the United Kingdom. Article I, Section 9, Clause 8 of the United sates constitution, after all, only says that the federal government cannot grant titled of nobility, but says nothing about a state, besides this technically isn’t that, anyway.

    Sammy Finkelman (3102d6)

  39. they want to burn the country down, we know the etymology of these successors to the black liberation army and the weathermen, who they are allied with, and what their ultimate goals are,

    narciso (7404b5)

  40. Why would anyone vote for more of the same?

    Ask Larry Kudlow; Covid-19 aside: Reaganomics.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  41. This is a great moment for Biden to unify, the way Obama pretended he would in 2004. By hiding, Biden conveniently keeps this election a referendum on a terrible man. It’s clever but it is also pathetic.

    ROFLMAOPIP.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  42. Davethulhu (9921df) — 6/24/2020 @ 3:06 pm

    Yes, this is why we have Bernie Sanders as the Democratic nominee, and AOC as the Speaker of the house.

    Ah, the ever popular snarky comeback. Present, past, and future tense are real things. AOC and that crew have been very effective at manipulating Pelosi and AOC will only get stronger as Pelosi weakens. Biden is a placeholder and the VP is very much an open question. Klobuchar, other D’s, and his own campaign, have backed him into picking a woman of color which is exactly how you pick the VP for a candidate who looks like he may not make it to the inauguration.

    Yes, we are presently seeing the establishment D’s loosing control but what’s going on isn’t out of control.

    frosty (4c16b4)

  43. The honorific “Kentucky Colonel” is bestowed on individuals residing in Kentucky on the basis of noteworthy accomplishments that the governor and/or secretary of state wishes to recognize.

    Technically, you don’t even have to be a resident or born, you can be a drive by Colonel. Also, I’m both a Colonel and KY Colonel, and was a KY Colonel first, while I was both a Major and LtCol.

    So far it’s gotten me a custom license plate, and a better parking spot for the Derby, which will never happen again.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  44. Meanwhile…….

    What Shooting? Nets Skip Third CHOP Shooting in Four Days

    https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2020/06/23/what-shooting-nets-skip-third-chop-shooting-four-days
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  45. You can probably guess where I will place my bets, but I wonder if there are some independents and moderates who may dislike the way Donald Trump has governed the past three-plus years, but fear what would happen if the people behind these protests are brought back into full power

    This is the nub of the problem. The problem with Donald Trump is all about personality. He is a crude, amoral buffoon whose only concern is his short-term image. Which is awful. But he has no ideology — it’s all about him, and those who worship him. After 2024, he will be gone, and the Republican party will be left to pick up the pieces.

    But the problem with the other side is ideological. The far left hates America and Western society. Full stop. To them, there is no difference between Abraham Lincoln and Robert E Lee.

    And most of the Democratic party is willing to go along with it, or are intimidated by the far left, or by being called racist. Or they just want power, and are willing to go along for the ride.

    And the guy at the top is half-senile, and if he gets in will have no ability to control the ideologues.

    The choice is between a bad personality or a bad ideology. The latter has far more potential for harm than the former. So I am starting to come the conclusion, however distasteful, that Trump is the lesser of the two evils.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  46. History has shown, BTW, that revolutions often end up worse than what they were revolting from. The Shah of Iran was bad, but they Ayatollah Khomeini was worse. Ditto the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  47. 46.History has shown, BTW, that revolutions often end up worse than what they were revolting from.

    Yeah,that 1776 thingy was a real Yankee Doodle Dandy. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  48. @47 — That’s why I said often, not always.

    And we were lucky to have founding fathers that were principled. George Washington could have been king or dictator for life. He peacefully gave up power to his elected successor. Many people in his position would not have done that.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  49. AJ: Colonel Sanders didn’t wear gray or blue; he wore white.

    SF: True, but they can say it is gray.

    You guys are both wrong: the suit is blue and gold.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  50. So I am starting to come the conclusion, however distasteful, that Trump is the lesser of the two evils.

    You and me both, Bored Lawyer. I will do a full post on this at some point, but as I said in a comment a few weeks back, I think that suffering through four more years of Trump is slightly more palatable than returning the Democrats, as presently construed, to power. It’s the difference between having your testicles repeatedly punched or repeatedly stomped upon: there ain’t much of a difference, but there’s enough of one.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  51. “But the problem with the other side is ideological. The far left hates America and Western society. Full stop. To them, there is no difference between Abraham Lincoln and Robert E Lee.”

    This is absurd.

    “And most of the Democratic party is willing to go along with it, or are intimidated by the far left, or by being called racist. Or they just want power, and are willing to go along for the ride.”

    This didn’t happen under Obama, and won’t happen under Biden. But if you want to see who just wants power and is willing to go along for the ride, take a look at the Republican party.

    Davethulhu (9921df)

  52. This angry Florida woman argued today against the mask mandate, while bringing up the devil, 5G, Bill Gates, Hillary Clinton, “the pedophiles” and the deep state.

    https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1275912010555932672

    This person clearly represents the far right, and therefore everyone who would vote Republican.

    Davethulhu (9921df)

  53. @45 and 46

    Bored Lawyer, you are a voice of reason. I can’t find much to argue with in your comments.

    norcal (a5428a)

  54. I didn’t watch the whole video on Rex Chapman’s tweet, Davethulhu, but I’m going to assume that she destroyed the podium and then burned down the chamber, and that’s why you are comparing her to the far left people whom we are criticizing.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  55. “I didn’t watch the whole video on Rex Chapman’s tweet, Davethulhu, but I’m going to assume that she destroyed the podium and then burned down the chamber, and that’s why you are comparing her to the far left people whom we are criticizing.”

    The opinions and actions of people like her are killing way more people than the rioters.

    Davethulhu (9921df)

  56. Davethulhu (9921df) — 6/24/2020 @ 5:04 pm

    This is absurd.

    Maybe but also true.

    This didn’t happen under Obama, and won’t happen under Biden.

    Who are you trying to convince? It’s easy to google BLM, Ferguson, etc.

    frosty (4c16b4)

  57. The opinions and actions of people like her are killing way more people than the rioters.

    Yes, the scourge of killer opinions. Words are violence in your world, right Davethulhu?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  58. By hiding, Biden conveniently keeps this election a referendum on a terrible man.

    Even silence is a gaffe; he writes his own bumper stickers:

    Nothing Doing. Biden 2020

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  59. You guys are both wrong: the suit is blue and gold.
    JVW

    Ha!

    Another James (0912e8)

  60. “Yes, the scourge of killer opinions. Words are violence in your world, right Davethulhu?”

    You’re being either disingenuous or pedantic.

    Her opinion (and that of a significant number of Republicans) is that masks are tyranny. As a result they don’t wear masks, don’t social distance, don’t take actions to prevent the spread of covid. As a result of that, places like Texas are spiking on new cases, some of whom will die. The total deaths will exceed the number of deaths as a result of the riots, by a significant margin.

    Davethulhu (9921df)

  61. The President’s statement about Charlottesville was “purposely misconstrued?” In other words, the Democrats and the media lied about it. Why not just admit it?

    Gary Hoffman (2a3a16)

  62. @48. Perhaps not as ‘often’ as you suggest as a rule of generality; you may assess results on your own:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_revolutions_and_rebellions

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. The opinions and actions of people like her are killing way more people than the rioters.

    Sounds like the police should get involved.

    beer ‘n pretzels (314f40)

  64. David Duke set the record straight: “We put you [Trump] up there!”

    nk (1d9030)

  65. @50. I think that suffering through four more years of Trump is slightly more palatable than returning the Democrats, as presently construed, to power.

    “Courting disaster?!?!” 😉

    Whoever wins- I can’t lose. 🙂

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  66. 64.David Duke set the record straight

    By a nose. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  67. The total deaths will exceed the number of deaths as a result of the riots, by a significant margin.

    You mean those protest/riots where thousands of participants went without masks, engaged in vigorous exercise smashing and looting, and hung out in close proximity to one another as they danced the night away in their little autonomous camps, right? And none of that causes the virus to spread, because righteous protest can’t possibly be the culprit.

    Now who’s being disingenuous or pedantic?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  68. 67. I’m still not wearing a mask in public. Heh.

    Gryph (08c844)

  69. The President’s statement about Charlottesville was “purposely misconstrued?” In other words, the Democrats and the media lied about it. Why not just admit it?

    Because our inarticulate President is incapable of speaking off the cuff with any degree of nuance or cogency, perhaps?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  70. I absolutely love the title of this post, JVW. Kudos.

    Dana (25e0dc)

  71. Nope, sorry, JVW. Because as I intimated just above, he is scared sh!tless of losing the racist white trash.

    nk (1d9030)

  72. Here’s the Al Wilson song, Dana.

    nk (1d9030)

  73. “You mean those protest/riots where thousands of participants went without masks, engaged in vigorous exercise smashing and looting, and hung out in close proximity to one another as they danced the night away in their little autonomous camps, right? And none of that causes the virus to spread, because righteous protest can’t possibly be the culprit.

    Now who’s being disingenuous or pedantic?”

    Where’s corona spiking right now?

    “Because our inarticulate President is incapable of speaking off the cuff with any degree of nuance or cogency, perhaps?”

    Who were the fine people? The nazis? The neo-confederates? The people who were fine marching with nazis and neo-confederates?

    Davethulhu (9921df)

  74. Seven states are reporting new highs for current coronavirus hospitalizations, according to data tracked by The Washington Post — Arizona, Arkansas, California, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas — as the number of infections continues to climb across the South and West. More than 800 covid-19 deaths were reported in the United States on Tuesday, the first time fatalities have increased since June 7.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/23/coronavirus-live-updates-us/

    Davethulhu (9921df)

  75. nk (1d9030) — 6/24/2020 @ 6:26 pm

    he is scared sh!tless of losing the racist white trash.

    If this was nearly the voting bloc you imagine it to be Bubba wouldn’t have needed to fake a hate crime.

    frosty (4c16b4)

  76. Davethulhu (9921df) — 6/24/2020 @ 6:35 pm

    Maybe some of the same mostly peaceful people who marched with marxists and anarchists.

    frosty (4c16b4)

  77. “Maybe some of the same mostly peaceful people who marched with marxists and anarchists.”

    I think you have a poor memory of who attended the Charlottesville protests.

    Davethulhu (9921df)

  78. You mean if Bubba could finish better than 7th in a major race, he wouldn’t need to imagine a hate crime to get his name in the news.

    Hell, frosty, even the FBI doesn’t know the word “loop”. They called it a noose that doesn’t work.

    nk (1d9030)

  79. Let’s see what the COVID numbers are in Minneapolis, Seattle, New York, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and other large cities are like in a week or two. They are already on the rise in Los Angeles, especially in areas with more dense neighborhoods which are coincidentally heavily minority. Are you suggesting that Gavin Newsom put people of color in peril by reopening too soon?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  80. Let’s see what the community spread is a couple of weeks after the Tulsa rally:
    Dozens of Secret Service officers and agents told to self-quarantine after Trump’s Tulsa rally
    Dozens of Secret Service officers and agents who were on site for President Trump’s rally in Tulsa last week were ordered to self-quarantine after two of their colleagues tested positive for the novel coronavirus, part of the fallout from Trump’s insistence on holding the mass gathering over the objections of public health officials.
    ……
    On Tuesday, the Secret Service field office in Tulsa arranged for a special testing session at a hospital to determine if local agents had contracted the virus while assisting with the rally, according to two other people with knowledge of the testing. As part of the arrangement, doctors administered the test to both agents and some local officials in parked cars outside the hospital.
    …….

    It is still unknown how the rally may have impacted Tulsa’s count of coronavirus cases, which are rising swiftly. Tulsa County hit a new record Wednesday, with 259 new confirmed cases, part of “steep upward trends” seen across Oklahoma, said Bruce Dart, the director of Tulsa’s Health Department, at a news conference Wednesday.
    ……..
    “To protect the privacy of our employees’ health information and for operational security, the Secret Service is not releasing how many of its employees have tested positive for COVID-19, nor how many of its employees were, or currently are, quarantined,” she added.
    ……

    Rip Murdock (e7189f)

  81. It Doesn’t Look Like the Protests Are Causing a COVID-19 Spike
    When tens of thousands of people hit the streets protesting the police killing of George Floyd, many worried that the crowds—often too dense to allow the recommended 6 feet of social distancing—would spark a new wave of COVID-19 cases. Yet in New York, city and state officials tell me, there have been no spikes of the illness.

    Nor have there been sudden surges in several other cities where large demonstrations were held, including Minneapolis, where Floyd was killed and the first protests erupted, and Philadelphia. Spikes have occurred elsewhere—especially Texas, Arizona, Florida, and California—but they coincided with the reopening of bars, restaurants, and other indoor establishments, making it hard to trace the upticks to the protests.
    ……..
    Jeffrey Shaman, director of the climate and health program at Columbia University and the author of widely publicized studies on the spread of COVID-19, told me in a phone conversation Wednesday, “I think, personally, that the lion’s share of infection occurs indoors. I think that outdoors, in sunshine, with masks, is a fairly safe environment.”

    Shaman said that he and his team at Columbia modeled the demonstrations as they were occurring, to see whether they could lead to a surge in COVID-19 infections. They ran their model through three scenarios, each with a different premise on how much masks and the open air would suppress transmission of the virus. In the scenario of lowest suppression, there should have been a substantial bump of cases by now, nearly three weeks after the protests began. In the medium scenario, there should have been a slightly lower bump. In the scenario where masks and open air suppressed the transmission to the greatest degree, there was no bump. “That’s what we’re actually seeing,” Shaman said. “The most optimistic scenario turned out to be most accurate.”
    …….

    Rip Murdock (e7189f)

  82. Davethulhu (9921df) — 6/24/2020 @ 6:46 pm

    I think you have a poor memory of who attended the Charlottesville protests.

    A lot of people consider marxists mostly peaceful, possibly generally acceptable, or even fine people. A lot of people are confused or outright lying.

    If decent people can show up at protests run by marxists and anarchists that consistently turn into riots with looting after days or weeks it seem like it should be possible for decent people to show up at a 2-day event. If that isn’t the case you’re painting a very sad picture of these BLM protests.

    frosty (4c16b4)

  83. Trump event speaker criticized for calling Aunt Jemima a ‘picture of the American dream’
    ……..
    Reagan Escudé, a Turning Point USA ambassador who Trump invited to speak on stage Tuesday over her personal experience with “cancel culture,” told the Students for Trump crowd in Phoenix how “Aunt Jemima was canceled,” a reference to the syrup brand’s decision to rebrand after admitting its more than 130-year logo was racially insensitive.

    Escudé, who announced on Twitter earlier this month she had been fired from her job “for giving a Biblical response to social issues,” said, “Nancy Green, the original, first Aunt Jemima, she was the picture of the American Dream.”
    …….
    In reality, there is no historical evidence Green was ever made wealthy by the partnership, despite the company using her likeness on their pancake syrup. She was born into slavery and worked as a nurse and caretaker for the majority of her adult life, according to WBEZ. A 1923 obituary in the Chicago Defender found by WBEZ said she spent 20 years traveling the country demonstrating the pancake mix.
    ……..
    The brand’s origin and logo is based off the song “Old Aunt Jemima” from a minstrel show performer and reportedly sung by slaves. …….
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (e7189f)

  84. Counterpoint, Rip Murdock:

    [R]elatives of two of the five former Aunt Jemima actresses are displeased with the “politically correct” rebranding, seeing the decision instead as an affront to justice and family legacy.

    “I understand what Quaker Oats is doing because I’m Black and I don’t want a negative image promoted,” Vera Harris, whose great aunt Lillian Richard portrayed Aunt Jemima for 23 years, told NBC News. “However, I just don’t want her legacy lost, because if her legacy is swept under the rug and washed away, it’s as if she never was a person.”

    Harris mentioned that her great aunt was contracted by Quaker Oats in 1925 at a time when there weren’t many jobs “especially for Black women” outside of domestic work (for non-Black families).

    “She took the job to make an honest living to support herself, touring around at fairs, cooking demonstrations and events,” Harris added in the NBC News interview.

    And no matter how it was used in minstrel shows, the name Jemima means “dove” and originated with one of the daughters of Job, whom scripture tells us was beautiful. This is how she is described in 42 Exodous:

    12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.

    13 He had also seven sons and three daughters.

    14 And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch.

    15 And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.

    16 After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons’ sons, even four generations.

    17 So Job died, being old and full of days.

    One of the dumbest things about cancel culture is the degree to which words and names are assumed to be ruined because they are misused once.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  85. Evidence to support your opinion is problematic:

    A progressive listserv meltdown is a ‘case study’ of what is happening in the progressive universe

    https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2/2020/06/24/chait-progressive-listserv-meltdown-shows-identity-politics-destroying-professional-left/

    Watching the Left devour its own enablers is truly amazing.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  86. damn Rip, you get paid by the pasted word?

    Your argument regarding protests is hindsight bias. I don’t even think the Slate claim is accurate. all those cities with huge spikes in COVID had huge protests. But even if they didn’t, how in the world could the same people insisting social distancing is necessary to save millions of lives then attend these massive and crowded protests? They didn’t know what the results would be when they did that.

    To the folks who were told their job was an acceptable sacrifice to save lives, the protests sure would seem hypocritical, and of course this kind of thing only makes it harder to get people to buy-in to the next sacrifice. It doesn’t help that Trump is telling us wearing a mask is a criticism of him (I can only wear so many masks at once!). But two wrongs don’t make a right.

    Dustin (e3a6ae)

  87. “A lot of people consider marxists mostly peaceful, possibly generally acceptable, or even fine people. A lot of people are confused or outright lying.

    If decent people can show up at protests run by marxists and anarchists that consistently turn into riots with looting after days or weeks it seem like it should be possible for decent people to show up at a 2-day event. If that isn’t the case you’re painting a very sad picture of these BLM protests.”

    What does this have to do with Trump’s statement and the Charlotteville protests?

    Davethulhu (9921df)

  88. @84-
    The “relatives” quoted in the article are not related to the original AJ, who died in 1923, so they have no real claim to her legacy. They are related to a successor AJ portrayer.

    Rip Murdock (e7189f)

  89. Davethulhu (9921df) — 6/24/2020 @ 8:22 pm

    Nothing. I had no idea why you were trying to resurrect that argument but if you’re going to talk gibberish about nazis it’s a good opportunity to remind people we’ve got a current problem with violent marxists.

    frosty (4c16b4)

  90. Has Rex Chapman ever thought of challenging McConnell or Rand Paul? He’s wigand done right.

    Also, did swarthy Florida lady bust out one of these?

    urbanleftbehind (9cd009)

  91. @86-
    No, I don’t get paid by the word. I post news I find interesting.

    Note that huge COVID-19 spikes are occurring where there no large protests-Arizona, Texas, Idaho, Florida, Arkansas, Oklahoma, etc. all of which, including California, have been rapidly opening their economies. The spikes also began as infections weeks prior to becoming symptomatic.

    Which is why we won’t see the community spread from Trump’s Tulsa and Phoenix events for a couple of weeks.

    Rip Murdock (e7189f)

  92. “Nothing. I had no idea why you were trying to resurrect that argument but if you’re going to talk gibberish about nazis it’s a good opportunity to remind people we’ve got a current problem with violent marxists.”

    I was responding to JVW. We also have a problem with violent white supremacists. You know, the ones that are actually shooting people. The one that actually killed someone at Charlottesville.

    Davethulhu (9921df)

  93. A neurological condition…or a an alternate explanation for the KFV…either way makes one think…http://news.yahoo.com/trump-brother-icu-just-filing-013327923.html

    urbanleftbehind (9cd009)

  94. U.S. marshals told to prepare to help protect monuments nationwide as Trump targets people who vandalize structures during protests
    ……..
    In an email, Marshals Service Assistant Director Andrew C. Smith wrote that the agency “has been asked to immediately prepare to provide federal law enforcement support to protect national monuments (throughout the country).” The subject line of the message indicates it is an “Attorney General Assignment,” suggesting it came from Attorney General William P. Barr.
    ………
    Earlier Wednesday, defense officials said that the Army activated about 400 unarmed members of the Washington, D.C., National Guard to “prevent any defacing or destruction” of monuments.
    ………
    It was not immediately clear how many marshals would be involved in the work, or what, precisely, they would be doing. The assignment is unusual, as marshals — who fall under the Department of Justice — typically work providing security for courthouses, transporting prisoners, apprehending fugitives and protecting witnesses…….
    ……..
    More political theater from Trump and Barr.

    Rip Murdock (e7189f)

  95. @92-
    And the “boogaloo” cop killings in the SF Bay Area.

    Rip Murdock (e7189f)

  96. U.S. reports its second highest daily total of new cases.
    The United States reached its second-highest daily total of new cases on Wednesday, even before some states had reported their full numbers for the day.

    Florida, Texas, Oklahoma and South Carolina reported their highest single-day totals, with Texas reporting more than 6,200 new cases and Florida reporting more than 5,500 as the country’s total reached 36,126. More than 35,000 new coronavirus cases had been identified the day before. The country’s largest daily total has been 36,739 cases, which were reported on April 24.
    ……
    ……[C]ases are still rising in more than 20 states, especially in the South and West.
    ……..
    The elevated case numbers are a result of worsening conditions across much of the country, as well as increased testing, but testing alone does not explain the surge. …….
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (e7189f)

  97. The “relatives” quoted in the article are not related to the original AJ, who died in 1923, so they have no real claim to her legacy. They are related to a successor AJ portrayer.

    That hardly matters. It’s like claiming that the original Dr. Who is the only one who has a legitimate claim to the Dr. Who legacy. I don’t think any fan of the show would agree with you about that, and the same goes for Aunt Jemima.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  98. I like the idea that Aunt Jemima is a timelord.

    Davethulhu (9921df)

  99. K. D. Hume
    @KDHume

    Seattle has cut off water and electricity to the CHOP area in the middle of a heat wave. Seattle is waging war on its own citizens instead of listening to them.
    __ _

    AC BENNETT
    @abenn343
    ·
    Autonomous zones will have to develop their own utlities.
    Otherwise they’re not autonomous.

    Welcome to reality world, guys.
    __ _

    madontplay
    @madontplay
    ·
    If you run away from home don’t ask mom to bring cookies to the tree fort?
    __ _

    harkin (9c4571)

  100. “I like the idea that Aunt Jemima is a timelord”
    _

    The same outfit that hacked Joy Reid’s Twitter acct?
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  101. They have really messed that show up, retconning so severely.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  102. @71. Because as I intimated just above, he is scared sh!tless of losing the racist white trash.

    Why worry, nk. The second aging JoeyBee bows to pressure and selects a black woman as his VP running mate is the day the deal is sealed for Trump’s re-election; the white trash vote will stay w/him. And so will others. A white male may lie to a pollster that in theory they’d vote for a sassy black lady on the ticket but given the real world chances of JoeyBee becoming incapacitated — or croaking in office, no way whitey risks having the first female president a black woman– unless, maybe, her name is Oprah. Rice has never held elected office so she’s just a stalking horse on a list; Abrams has a look right off a pancake batter box and won’t go down well with the hood and sheeted, good ‘ol boys at diners across the land. Figure the pressure will be to go to Harris– or if he really wants a chance to win– Warren. Not since FDR’s fourth run has the choice of a running mate been quite this ‘Harry.’ 😉

    “I am the Creator – of a television show that gives hope and joy and inspiration to millions.” – Christof [Ed Harris] ‘The Truman Show’ 1998

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  103. Honestly queen latifah as the equalizer, im dying here. Denzel had the cunning of robert mccall

    Narciso (7404b5)

  104. @97-
    [R]elatives of two of the five former Aunt Jemima actresses are displeased with the “politically correct” rebranding, seeing the decision instead as an affront to justice and family legacy.

    I could take complaints more seriously if they were descendants of Nancy Green, rather replacement actresses. It’s sort of like the children of an Elvis impersonator complaining about the legacy of the real Elvis.

    Either way an old British sci-fi show with cheesy special effects has nothing to do with the legacy of a real person. At least Reagan Escudé got the name right.

    Rip Murdock (e7189f)

  105. It’s sort of like the children of an Elvis impersonator complaining about the legacy of the real Elvis.

    Comparing the original Aunt Jemima to Elvis is a line of argument that I must confess I wasn’t ready for. I don’t think there is much else to say if you are going down this road.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  106. Where was this verve in legacy defense when McDonalds Corp wound itself away from using Ronald at appearances and on TV? That gig at least had some famous alums…Steve Deshler, Mr. Belding and Will Ferrell.

    urbanleftbehind (d8811e)

  107. It’s sort of like the children of an Elvis impersonator complaining about the legacy of the real Elvis.

    Comparing the original Aunt Jemima to Elvis is a line of argument that I must confess I wasn’t ready for. I don’t think there is much else to say if you are going down this road.

    JVW (ee64e4) — 6/25/2020 @ 1:02 am

    The discussion around Aunt Jemima seems strange. But i’m glad it happened because I learned things.

    Here’s what I think are clear facts.
    1. The character belongs to Quaker Oates and exists to help sell pancake mix and imitation maple syrup.
    2. The character is based on an insulting racist stereotype of a Southern Black woman. A Chris Rutt got the idea for Aunt Jemima as a brand based on minstrel show mammy character.

    So it’s private property with a purpose, and it’s kind of racist. If Quaker Oats thinks they can sell more corn syrup with a different logo more power to them. IMO

    What I don’t get are the people that are upset about it, other then the defendants of the women hired as spokeswomen who has an emotional attachment to this character? Where is that coming from? It’s bad that a flavored corn syrup is changing their logo because the current one is insulting to black people? Why?

    Time123 (daab2f)

  108. Davethulhu (9921df) — 6/24/2020 @ 8:51 pm

    We also have a problem with violent white supremacists. You know, the ones that are actually shooting people. The one that actually killed someone at Charlottesville.

    Yep, but I’m not running interference for them. Those guys need to be stopped but it doesn’t look like there are enough of them for a pickup basketball game. I keep being told that the marxists aren’t a threat and haven’t killed anyone. I think CHOP is up to 4 shootings by itself.

    frosty (4c16b4)

  109. 107.

    What I don’t get are the people that are upset about it, other then the defendants of the women hired as spokeswomen who has an emotional attachment to this character? Where is that coming from? It’s bad that a flavored corn syrup is changing their logo because the current one is insulting to black people? Why?

    Time123 (daab2f) — 6/25/2020 @ 4:30 am

    You don’t find it in the least bit curious that it took black people almost 120 years to feel insulted (over 50 if you count from the Civil Rights act)? Where does it end? Certainly not with tearing down statues of noted abolitionists, as we’ve already seen.

    Gryph (08c844)

  110. Time123 (daab2f) — 6/25/2020 @ 4:30 am

    The few people I’ve seen give a reason seem to think it’s pandering. I’ve seen a couple of people take the position that if you think syrup has anything to do with violence against blacks or the issues we’ve got in society you’re wrong and it’s ridiculous. Of course, it didn’t sound like any of them were offended by it in the first place.

    If I had to guess the response may be part of several things. The first is that no one is really upset. Claiming that someone is upset is a way to overstate the issue so that it can be implied that this irrational emotional response is hiding racism. Another aspect might be that people are getting fed up with the non-stop redefining of things. We’ve edited Elmer Fud, companies are flushing their own IP, and we’re seeing imaginary nooses. All of those things were things that pre-existed this current round of insanity and no one but the most extreme had a problem with them. Now we’re being told that a whole bunch of stuff is obviously a problem and that if we didn’t see it before we’re the ones with the problem. We’re being told this by the special people who are the only ones who can see the emperor’s clothes.

    frosty (4c16b4)

  111. Who funded this latest brushfire thousand currents through kellogg foundation, who heads that outfit susan rosenberg grok her cv.

    Narciso (7404b5)

  112. ‘Aunt Jemima has left the building’
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  113. Frosty,

    The first is that no one is really upset. Claiming that someone is upset is a way to overstate the issue so that it can be implied that this irrational emotional response is hiding racism.

    The woman who spoke at the Trump rally seemed at least a little upset. She clearly cared enough about to speak about it in front of a large and very important audience. So maybe upset isn’t the right verb, but it’s clearly important to at least part of Trump’s base.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  114. Seattle business owners, residents sue city over ‘CHOP’ zone

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/seattle-businesses-and-residents-sue-city-over-chop-zone/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    “ About a dozen businesses and residents located in and around Seattle’s autonomous protest zone sued the city Wednesday — arguing their constitutional rights to property are being violated.

    The class-action suit claims the group have had their rights “overrun by the city of Seattle’s unprecedented decision to abandon and close off an entire city neighborhood.”

    The so-called Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone, which sprouted up on June 8, has been “unchecked by police, unserved by fire and emergency health services, and inaccessible to the public at large,” the lawsuit said.

    While the plaintiffs would like to restore normalcy to the area, they stressed in the suit that the legal action was not meant to undermine the protest’s anti-police brutality and Black Lives Matter messaging.

    The group said in the suit that on occasions they have been threatened by protesters for photographing them or cleaning graffiti from their property.”
    __ _

    They should have sought mediation at the couch circle of knowledge.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  115. Gryph said

    You don’t find it in the least bit curious that it took black people almost 120 years to feel insulted (over 50 if you count from the Civil Rights act)? Where does it end? Certainly not with tearing down statues of noted abolitionists, as we’ve already seen.

    AFAIK there wasn’t a large focus on Aunt Jemima externally. This was something Quaker Oates did on their own. Maybe they knew there had been complaints, maybe they were playing defense, maybe they were very aware of the history of the character and decided now was the time to do something about it, maybe it had been testing badly for a while, maybe they knew that if they did this now it would get lots of people talking about them.

    Don’t you think it’s odd that we’ve been using a racist character to sell pancakes for 120 years and just now decided to do something about it?

    Time123 (daab2f)

  116. They should sue to abate Jenny Durkan as a public nuisance.

    nk (1d9030)

  117. They should sue to abate Jenny Durkan as a public nuisance.

    nk (1d9030) — 6/25/2020 @ 5:48 am

    qualified immunity.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  118. Time123 (daab2f) — 6/25/2020 @ 5:42 am

    The issue of redefining symbols is very important and for that the aunt jemima thing is relevant. The issue of imputing racism is also a problem and it’s a part of that. Turning those issues into being upset over a syrup logo is just a way to dismiss valid points about larger issues where that is just a small but clear example.

    The hypocrisy over white Jesus is a better example. The ridiculousness of attacking statues is another. Keeping the issue focused on a syrup logo gives cover for those.

    frosty (4c16b4)

  119. Time123 (daab2f) — 6/25/2020 @ 5:48 am

    Don’t you think it’s odd that we’ve been using a racist character to sell pancakes for 120 years and just now decided to do something about it?

    Not really. I never thought it was racists. My grandmother’s had it when I was a kid and it reminds me of them.

    frosty (d7888d)

  120. @45: “The choice is between a bad personality or a bad ideology. The latter has far more potential for harm than the former. So I am starting to come the conclusion, however distasteful, that Trump is the lesser of the two evils.”

    1. We don’t suddenly get all of the new President’s policies. Yes, the far left is boisterous and enjoying its day in the sun, but universal free stuff isn’t going to make it through cloture unless we see a tidal wave for Democrats which no one is currently projecting. The country is still pretty evenly divided and the far Left is a decided minority.

    2. I think you underestimate the harm that can be done by someone who is ill-prepared, not especially knowledgeable, and who weighs his personal interest over that of the country. We’ve seen a microcosm of that with our current health and economic crises. The trouble is that he has hemorrhaged all of the really good advisors and we are now left largely with the William Barr yes-men who are willing to assuage Trump’s worst instincts. At some point an ill-advised comment, tweet,or miscalculated response is going to snowball. It’s not “if”; it’s “when”.

    3. Biden is unexceptional and I anticipate that his running mate will be too, selected for reasons of gender an/or skin color rather than depth of experience and demonstrated leadership. So, if we are looking for a path to more normal Republican leadership, it would seem more prudent to ride through 4-years of a gaffe-filled Biden adminstration….than bring on full on Trump fatigue and the inevitable scandals that are sure to follow and drag down the GOP collectively. There needs to be a clean break where the GOP gets back to defending against the undisciplined growth of the state. Right now the GOP stands for personality worship mixed in with a big dose of conspiracy mongering and what-aboutism. The sooner the GOP rips off the bandaid….the better….

    AJ_Liberty (0f85ca)

  121. AJ_Liberty (0f85ca) — 6/25/2020 @ 6:00 am

    Point 2 undoes point 1 and 3.

    Also,

    There needs to be a clean break where the GOP gets back to defending against the undisciplined growth of the state.

    Gets back? This argument undoes 1 and 3 by itself. The GOPe is more than happy to work with a Biden admin to pass all sorts of AOC inspired garbage.

    frosty (4c16b4)

  122. Aunt Jemima pancakes
    Without her syrup
    Is like Kellyanne
    Without the pacifier

    If there’s anything worse
    In this universe
    It’s Trump without a Kellyanne at all.

    nk (1d9030)

  123. If you think it’s crazy
    That entire blocks are under siege
    Wait til you address your local warlord
    As Your Highness and Liege

    Law-abiding citizens
    Afraid to go out and hidin’
    Comin to a city near you
    When they elect Biden

    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  124. The issue of redefining symbols is very important and for that the aunt jemima thing is relevant. The issue of imputing racism is also a problem and it’s a part of that.

    You seem to be starting from the position that Aunt Jemima wasn’t kind of racist and now it is.

    I think that’s mistaken

    1. Mammy is an insulting stereotype of a black woman who does domestic work for white people. Google will take you to lots of explanations about the history.
    2. Aunt Jemima is a mammy. That’s not an accident, it’s on purpose. Check the Wiki.
    3. Insulting stereotypes of minorities are racist.

    1+2+3 = Aunt Jemima is racist.

    I think there are degrees to racism and this isn’t a wildly racist or offensive thing, but it’s still a racist thing.

    You might not have known it, or intended it that way. But that doesn’t make less true. It just means you weren’t trying to be hurtful. Any more than I was last month when I bought some because it was a few cents cheaper than the other flavored corn syrup and I was sick of my kids using tons of the good stuff.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  125. The hypocrisy over white Jesus is a better example. The ridiculousness of attacking statues is another. Keeping the issue focused on a syrup logo gives cover for those.

    I think it’s Trump and his base that are focused on Aunt Jemima. I think it’s intersting but not very important. From that POV of the woke crowd AJ was a freebie. There’s not really anything left to fight about there. Quaker Oats did what they want already. But I’ll bet 5$ there a spreadsheet and powerpoint deck about how making the change will increase sales.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  126. I think there are degrees to racism and this isn’t a wildly racist or offensive thing, but it’s still a racist thing.

    3min later:

    I think it’s Trump and his base that are focused on Aunt Jemima. I think it’s intersting but not very important.

    Deciding something is racist or offensive, even not wildly, makes it an important thing in the current zeitgeist. That’s the point, obvious to most. If you’re still unclear, take in JVW’s post this morning.

    beer ‘n pretzels (1d265b)

  127. Interesting speculative documentary: C.S.A.: Confederate States of America. What would America look like if the South won the Civil War?

    Rip Murdock (e7189f)

  128. If moderates and Independents dislike the way Trump has governed over the last 3 years, then they aren’t really independent OR moderate. What would they object to? Trump’s good trade deals, border security, a roaring economy before CV-19, standing for law and order? Or perhaps they object to defeating ISIS or having peace, and withdrawing troops from the Middle East, and winding down the Afghanistan war?

    Any “Moderate” or “Independent” who’s going to help elect Biden and give power to Shcumer and Pelois, because they don’t like Trump’s tweets or his style should just stop pretending to be an adult, stay home, stop caring about politics. Go watch Football (assuming its back).

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  129. I’m curious as to why Aunt Jemima can’t simply be viewed as a symbol of racial progress. A trademark that long ago was a caricature of a beloved Mammie who made great pancakes transitioned thru racial progress to become a beloved aunt who made great pancakes.

    I’m pretty sure that black kids who saw Jemima on the box could probably relate without being offended. Now Jemima and Uncle Ben are banished from the shelves and kitchens.

    They should just replace Jemima with a white trans woman, call her Aunt Jenny and shout Progress!
    _

    harkin (485617)

  130. ……transitioned thru racial progress to become a beloved aunt who made great pancakes.
    If that happened she would look like Pam Grier in the ‘70s.

    Rip Murdock (e7189f)

  131. That MItt Romney is pretending to be a Republican (is still pretending to be “Severely Conservative”?) and refusing to support Trump for re-election shows one of two things. Either he thinks his endorsement is worthless OR he wants to elect Joe Biden. Of course, Biden SUPPOSEDLY opposes 80% of what Mittens says he believes in. But here is he, helping Biden by refusing to help Trump.

    And this is the clown the R’s nominated in 2012! Thank God he lost. You wonder what in the world he would’ve done as President. It would’ve been like having Judge Roberts as President. Every day, you would’ve woken up wondering if President Mittens was going side with Schumer and betray the R’s, or whether he was going to get us into a war or not. The whole thing would’ve collapsed in 2016 with President Hillary getting elected.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  132. I don’t care what label a commercial product has. They put aunt jicama on the label to sell more syrup (crappy syrup BTW), and now they think they’ll sell more by taking her off. why should I care, unless I own stock in their company?

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  133. The whole point of labels and jingles and commercials is to manipulate you into feeling you have some sort of “bond” or “Relationship” with a commercial product and make $$$ off you. Its just syrup. Its just a car. Its just a laptop. Its not any better or any worse because the company hires super-smart people to do clever commercials.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  134. Harkin, they should turn Cream of Wheat guy into a snarling black Gordon Ramsey.

    And while Morgan Freeman is Uncle Ben’s doppelganger, you could just use Samuel Jackson and have each box say fothermucker each time rice gets poured out.

    urbanleftbehind (e46e71)

  135. If moderates and Independents dislike the way Trump has governed over the last 3 years, then they aren’t really independent OR moderate. What would they object to? Trump’s good trade deals, border security, a roaring economy before CV-19, standing for law and order? Or perhaps they object to defeating ISIS or having peace, and withdrawing troops from the Middle East, and winding down the Afghanistan war?

    Any “Moderate” or “Independent” who’s going to help elect Biden and give power to Shcumer and Pelois, because they don’t like Trump’s tweets or his style should just stop pretending to be an adult, stay home, stop caring about politics. Go watch Football (assuming its back).

    rcocean (2e1c02) — 6/25/2020 @ 7:26 am

    Trump’s good trade deals –> USMCA was a minor update to NAFTA. Didn’t really do much for me one way or another and that’s his major accomplishment. The trade war with china has been expensive and gotten nothing yet.

    border security –> 3 new miles of wall.

    a roaring economy before CV-19 –> trend line is straight from the recovery at the end of the bush admin. And he screwed it up mishandling CV19

    Standing for law and order –> We’re just going to have to agree to disagree here.

    Can you provide me a link that shows he’s made a meaningful change in troop deployments? I spend a minute on google and didn’t find a clean data source through 2020. I assume since you claimed it you have some support for it.

    None of your examples are at all impressive. Let alone impressive enough to justify his corruption and incompetance.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  136. border security –> 3 new miles of wall.

    Remain in Mexico is a thing. You must not like it much.

    But, if you really want a wall voting Biden or voting protest is certainly the way to go.

    beer ‘n pretzels (c2e30a)

  137. Remain in Mexico is a thing. You must not like it much.

    This is correct and I should have noted it.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  138. Frosty @121, I’m not tracking your reasoning. Even with 60 votes in the Senate (soon dropping to 59), Obama was not able to implement some sort of socialist takeover. Yes we got Obamacare but it also soon after brought in a tidal wave of GOP wins in both the House and Senate. And Obamacare was not exactly single payer….and though expensive….had little direct impact on the 90% of us that get our insurance through our job. So this fear that Biden would cause some legislative yank to the Left just doesn’t seem rooted in what we saw with Bill Clinton, Obama, and heck even going back to Carter.

    I’m not arguing that I would be happy or content with Biden….I will not vote for him….but the question becomes is the GOP in better shape after 4 years of Biden or 4 more years of Trump….with all of the scandal, stupidity, and lack of honest leadership? It’s remarkably cynical to think that none of this taints the GOP brand….or that Trump’s numbers don’t suggest a shrinking GOP demographic. Yes, politics and the media that covers it is dysfunctional….we’re unserious as a people….so in a way Trump reflects this…..but this is not a reason to give him four more years. It just reflects a sad laziness….that somehow competence doesn’t matter….that entertainment value is the most important thing…..flushing Trump is step one to return to seriousness…..

    AJ_Liberty (0f85ca)

  139. “ And this is the clown the R’s nominated in 2012! Thank God he lost. You wonder what in the world he would’ve done as President.”
    __ _

    Have to disagree. Absolutely no way he would’ve been as worthless or destructive as Chairman Zero. A lot of the Hate America and Hate Police stuff going on right now has his fingerprints all over it.

    And no way he would’ve nominated SC Justices as bad as Kagan or Sotomayor.
    _

    harkin (485617)


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