Just Another Day In The Week: Trump Pushes Conspiracy Theory
[guest post by Dana]
What the video shows:
The two officers in the video were charged on Saturday with felony assault. An overview of what happened:
“We had two of our police officers who crossed the line,” the Erie County district attorney, John J. Flynn, told reporters after the arraignment. “My job is to prosecute those who have violated the law, plain and simple. And I believe, and I’m alleging, that these two officers violated the law.”
…
The charges were filed after a widely viewed video taken by WBFO, a local radio station, showed two police officers appearing to shove Martin Gugino, who has been identified as an activist and a member of the Western New York Peace Center who was attending a protest stemming from the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis.
Mr. Gugino, who was shoved after he approached officers, staggered backward and landed hard on the sidewalk. Blood was seen immediately pooling behind his head
How President Trump responded to the incident. And yes, it involves a conspiracy theory:
Buffalo protester shoved by Police could be an ANTIFA provocateur. 75 year old Martin Gugino was pushed away after appearing to scan police communications in order to black out the equipment. @OANN I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 9, 2020
Trump’s response cited OAN reporter, whose report apparently stemmed from an anonymous blog:
Trump’s claims appeared to have been ripped from a conspiracy theory that aired Tuesday morning on One America News Network, a far-right cable news channel.The theory was originally posted to an anonymous conservative blog.
One America News Network claimed that Gugino, an activist from a Buffalo suburb, was using “common antifa tactics” when he was pushed by police. OANN reporter Kristian Rouz said the incident “could be the result of a false flag provocation by far-left group antifa.”
Rouz claimed that “newly released video” showed Gugino “using a police tracker on his phone.” The video is not newly released, but merely slowed down and does not show Gugino using a “police tracker.” Rouz calls it an “old trick used by antifa,” without providing evidence or other examples.
But the real jewel in this crown of craziness is the OAN reporter:
Rouz, who previously worked for the Russian state media organization Sputnik, has a record of pushing baseless conspiracy theories on OANN. Last month, Rouz claimed that the coronavirus was a plot by George Soros, Bill Gates, Dr. Anthony Fauci, Bill and Hillary Clinton, and China for “population control
What a gift to the Russians, eh?
Marc Polymeropoulos, a former CIA officer whose portfolio included Russia, said Trump was “giving a gift to the Russians.”
“It’s bad enough what he said,” Polymeropoulos said. “But it’s pretty shocking that he would quote from a known propaganda arm of Russian intelligence.”
So here we are, and so it goes…
–Dana
Remind me again, how has Trump tried to unify the country after the murder of George Floyd?
Dana (0feb77) — 6/9/2020 @ 11:59 am“But it’s pretty shocking that he would quote from a known propaganda arm of Russian intelligence.”
I am not shocked. Not a bit.
Hillary was right at least once in her life. That’s when, during their debate, she said this regarding Trump and Putin: “…he’d rather have a puppet as President” and “you are willing to spout the Putin line.”
Bingo.
noel (4d3313) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:13 pmAs an antidote, the Lincoln Project seems to be hitting their stride with a wicked series of ads that tweak different Trump paranoia points:
New Lincoln Project ad ruthlessly takes aim at yet another Trump soft spot: Crowd sizes
This one hits him for being obsessed with his conservative critics.
Another is aimed “at Trump’s reported anxiety that his campaign manager, Brad Parscale, is using the Trump name to get rich, even as Trump’s poll numbers slide.”
And finally, there’s an excellent contrast of “the Commander” (Mattis) and “the Coward” (Trump).
Dave (1bb933) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:18 pmRemind me again, how has Trump tried to unify the country after the murder of George Floyd?
Who is trying to pull the country apart?
Hoi Polloi (7cefeb) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:19 pmGame knows game.
Dave (1bb933) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:20 pmHe’s a garbage person who’s only concern is his own coverage in the news cycle. No idea why anyone would believe anything he or his administration says.
Time123 (653992) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:23 pmThe police officers that killed George Floyd?
Time123 (653992) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:24 pmRemind me again, who is the President of the United States?
Dana (0feb77) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:30 pmWell, given Trump’s track record, I think we can all feel reassured now that Mr. Gugino is not an antifa operative using software to mess with police communications.
Nic (896fdf) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:32 pmDana (0feb77) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:30 pm
Is this one of those rhetorical questions I’ve heard so much about?
Not trying to pick nits but is unify the best word choice if the guy you’re expecting to unify everyone is also routinely labeled an authoritarian?
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:38 pmFirst he’s not an Authoritarian. He’s a wannabe authoritarian. Authoritarians want to be in change and run things. He seems to be more interested in being able to claim credit when good things happen and deny responsibility when bad things happen without actually making hard calls.
Second, there ware ways to unify people that don’t involve brutal authoritarianism. Look at Jim Dewine’s leadership in Ohio on CV. At one point his approval rating was 87%. That’s fantastic.
Time123 (653992) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:44 pmFor the curious but lazy; the best I can find is that Martin Gugino is still hospitalized and his condition remains largely unchanged.
He’s also a member of the Catholic Worker movement which is a self-described Christian anarchist movement and in this case, one that has the goal of pacifism and non-violence.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:46 pmNot trying to pick nits but is unify the best word choice if the guy you’re expecting to unify everyone is also routinely labeled an authoritarian?
Remind me again, who is the President of the United States?
He’s not the one trying to defund police departments, looting stores, vandalizing, etc. He’s not calling half the country bitter clingers. Or deplorable.
Even if Trump tried his very best to unify the country, half wouldn’t listen to him at all.
But I’m sure that half will lap up everything crazy Joe Biden will have to say.
Hoi Polloi (7cefeb) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:48 pmTime123 (653992) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:44 pm
All that being true for the sake of discussion, is it still wise to encourage him to unify anything? I was trying to be a bit tongue in cheek but I think the actual goal should be to de-escalate and moderate the situation. These phrases like healer-in-chief and unifier don’t resonate with me. I don’t need that sort of relationship with political leaders.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:52 pmHe calls them other things, and he does it so often and so intensely that it’s inclusion makes it hard to take you seriously.
Time123 (f5cf77) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:53 pmHe sounds like a very religious man.
Those terms annoy me. But a leader that was able to convincingly make the case that they understood the problem, took it seriously and was both committed to fixing it and able to do so might have a pretty big impact. Not saying Trump is capable of it, but it’s not outside of the realm of the possible.
Time123 (653992) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:57 pmRemind me again, who is the President of the United States?
Remind me again, who runs these cities?
Democrat mayors, Democrat city councils and in most cases Democrat police chiefs. So, let’s blame a Republican president.
beer ‘n pretzels (7375f7) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:02 pmIt’s interesting in the video that both officers appear to shove Mr. Gugino simultaneously, one with two hands using his baton and the other with just one arm. I wonder if only one of them had made contact — either the baton officer or the officer with the open hand — if Mr. Gugino would have toppled backwards so violently. Granted, he’s an old man and probably not as steady on his feet as he once was, but in a way this also appears to be the product of very bad luck that both officers performed the same maneuver at exactly the same moment which had the effect of doubling the effort. I hope Mr. Gugino makes a full recovery and he didn’t deserve what happened to him, but at the same time it was more than a bit obnoxious of him to walk right up to the officers as they were advancing in a line and wave some object in their direction. I would have had more respect for his actions if he had simply held his ground as the officers approached him.
JVW (ee64e4) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:04 pmBut it’s pretty shocking that he would quote from a known propaganda arm of Russian intelligence.
Remember that this is guy who during the 2016 GOP primaries when called upon to criticize Vladimir Putin’s thuggishness haughtily told us that our own nation didn’t have clean hands in terms of authoritarian tendencies. So why shouldn’t we expect him to glom on to any and all sources that would support his own blinkered views? If some crazy conspiracy theorist at The Nation or Mother Jones agreed with President Trump on any particular item you can bet that the President would be quoting the nutcase as if he or she spoke the gospel truth.
JVW (ee64e4) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:09 pmI wholeheartedly reject any of this conspiracy stuff. That being said, what was he doing with his phone? Those are awfully weird movements that I have never done with my phone.
Any ideas? I think there is a slow motion video on YouTube that I can find if it helps. I can’t make heads or tails of what he was trying to accomplish.
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:11 pmI can go with these terms rather than “unify,” frosty. Thanks for suggesting them.
Dana (0feb77) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:16 pmIt looks to me like he’s motioning towards the steps and saying something to the officers with the same hand that’s holding his phone and is just awkward at it. My grandfather had arthritis and had trouble gripping things. The way he moved his hand kind of reminds me of that.
Time123 (f5cf77) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:18 pmCould he have been showing them something that he thought demonstrated that the police were acting improperly?
The constitution? A curfew order showing that curfew was not yet in effect? Some court decision or law that he thought was relevant?
Regardless, the police don’t look threatened in the slightest.
They look like they’re annoyed that he’s wasting their time, and they’re not willing to take any time to handle the situation peacefully.
Dave (1bb933) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:19 pmFound it. Here is the slow motion of the wild phone movements.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9CubkyIzygQ
At first I thought he was getting badge numbers, but he looks down at the second cop’s belt as he waves the phone back and forth in that area. I have found the best way to shame the conspiracy clowns is to show them what is actually going on. But I can’t figure out what is going on. Thoughts? I really want to get my friend to quit it with the wild theories.
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:19 pmBuduh,
I don’t have an answer. You can read Jerry Dunphy’s analysis here:
Dana (0feb77) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:20 pmIt would be tough to agree with him, even though it seems plausible, because that is the substance of Trump’s “conspiracy” text. I appreciate that.
It really doesn’t look like he was pointing at something, Dave.
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:25 pm” I read Jerry Dunphy’s thoughts on this”
This guy is a lunatic.
Davethulhu (b9acf0) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:26 pmTo be fair, Trump supporters are only 63M out of 319M, only 19.7%. So it was never half, but a solid half of that 63M are terribly deplorable, it’s a mix of the mentally ill, stupid, and white supremacists; the other half are, I’m sure, good people?
The democrats have similar groups, they haven’t yet had their Trump to pull all of the “yute” vote off the couch and from their supposed Antifa club meetings.
Then there’s the other half of adult citizens that don’t bother actually voting or registering, don’t care, lazy, whatever; I’d say that this level of apathy is actually worse than the partisan, well not the crazy ones that want to burn it all down, but many.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:32 pmBruDa, I can’t tell exactly what he’s doing. In slow motion it’s even less clear.
Time123 (653992) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:33 pm@1
Better question these days… when was the last time a President was able to unify the country?
Probably the last one was GWB in the aftermath of 9/11… even then, that only lasted a breath or two.
The facts are: there’s too many factions seeking to divide the country, such that it’s neigh impossible for any federal officials to “unite the country”.
As frosty mentioned… de-escalation and moderate the situation is definitely a worthy tact. Something that we all know Trump is incapable of doing so.
Trump is a narcissistic a**hole. So what else is new?
whembly (51f28e) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:34 pmOh sure, Dunphy just steals my whole argument — uh — a day before I actually made it.
JVW (ee64e4) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:35 pmYeah… I re-watched that whole confrontation. I don’t even know what Gugino was doing. Maybe it’s a nervous tick of some sort?
I’m not sure I buy the whole idea that he’s trying to capture radio data… what’s the point?
whembly (51f28e) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:37 pmDo you agree with me, Time, that whatever he is doing is purposeful as well as something I have never seen anyone else do?
It appears as though his first motion is over the one cop’s microphone, and that is when I though he may be filming the badge number, but then he goes straight to the other cop’s utility belt, not his badge or name plate.
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:41 pmI’m not sure I buy the whole idea that he’s trying to capture radio data… what’s the point?
Mr. Gugino, God bless him, is very likely to have some screws loose himself. For all we know he might of read on some conspiracy theory message board that he can disable police communication systems by waving his cellphone in front of them.
JVW (ee64e4) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:42 pmHe didn’t seem to have any nervous ticks when he walked into the line of police. And then he went into the bizarre motions. To me it seems as though he was in control of his hand and where it went. Maybe filming a police belt buckle?
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:44 pmThat is possible. But then the conspiracy idiots would be closer to the truth, if that was Gugino‘s intention.
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:46 pmLOL.
I guess since Bluetooth and WiFi only have a range of 6 inches, he couldn’t do that from a safer distance…
Dave (1bb933) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:46 pmWhat if you were trying to pinpoint the individual sources?
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:49 pmTo me it seems Gugino is using his right hand to gesture at something on the steps and not in view of the camera. Which would mean his cell phone would be irrelevant to what he was doing.
Kishnevi (a8b5ef) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:53 pmKishnevi, that is interesting. He might be pointing to that handrail and saying something like “we were allowed to protest up to this line.” I will study the video a little more. Thanks.
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:57 pmjust another white radical, that is missing the frisson of the 60s,
narciso (7404b5) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:59 pmFrosty-From your post on a different thread:
I can’t click through the Times paywall. What’s the date on those polls?
The comparison is between polls conducted between March 15-April 15 and polls conducted since May 15th.
Here is a non-paywalled source with the same story.
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:02 pmLOL.
While waving the “scanner” around wildly (as you describe it)?
Dave (1bb933) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:02 pm#32 and #33
Angelo (24308b) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:05 pmRemember about 15 yrs or so ago when smart phones were just starting; one could download/transfer apps and programs from another smart phone via close proximity. Myself and a work colleague used to do that all the time until the novelty wore off. Not saying that is what was occurring but it’s possible and IF Mr. Gugino is a pro protester gathering intelligence would/could be possible. The cops may have been heavy handed, but they are stressed as hell and Gugino is no stranger to protests so he should have also been more cautious. It seems everyone involved has fault sticking to them
whembly (51f28e) — 6/9/2020 @ 1:37 pm
He’s got a phone in his right hand. Is it a helmet in is left? That helmet might have done its job if he would have left it on. He’s not looking at anything on the phone and he doesn’t really try to show the phone to the cops. At first, I thought he just happened to be holding the phone when they approached him but he walked up to them.
If he’s a pacifist was he trying to engage the cops to slow them down, get arrested just to tie up the resources associated with that, etc? The officers don’t seem enraged or even particularly violent. It looks like they were actually going to stop and engage the guy when the guy behind them reminds them to keep the line moving. The entire video is like sand in my sorts. Too many things don’t fit.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:05 pmRip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:02 pm
Thanks
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:06 pmHe was waiving it between two officers, Dave, not around the whole front line. You understood what I was talking about regarding pinpointing.
Kishnevi, I think you have the correct assessment. Thanks for not engaging like Dave. Not that you would have. I appreciate it when there is honest dialogue.
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:08 pmThere was video from another angle of the Gugino confrontation, taken from across the street to his left, that would have been looking right at anything he was pointing at.
Dave (1bb933) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:08 pmI’m not sure what he’s doing. He could be waving his phone of them for some reason. He could be gesturing, he might just move his arms a lot when he talks.
But he doesn’t look threatening to me. The police don’t react as if they feel threatened. It looks like whatever he was doing they just wanted him out of the way so they shoved him.
I think if you shove an old man who falls over and starts bleeding out his ears its probably worth an investigation. If there’s evidence he was doing something nefarious with his right hand it cam come out there. If there’s evidence he’s a wacko and that wasn’t a phone and he was ranting about lizard people the officers might have a strong defense. But I think it’s worth an investigation.
Time123 (653992) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:11 pmFrosty, I have seen it claimed that the helmet was a police helmet, and that he was trying to return it to the police.
The claim was not clear about how or why he had a police helmet to begin with.
Kishnevi (a8b5ef) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:13 pmI’m starting to think it’s the relative lack of violence that leads to a situation like this. The old-style phalanx approach sent a clear signal. Get everyone in lockstep and these sorts of mishaps don’t happen. There was no question about accidentally falling down and getting pulled behind the line.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:17 pmI agree. I try to not pass judgment until there are some more facts in play. I think It is more likely that he was gesturing with the phone. I also think that he would have taken less of a risk if he didn’t walk towards a moving line of officers that had already made their intentions known. Apparently there is another video where other protesters are chewing him out for being there in the first place.
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:18 pmThose two officers WERE the whole front line.
There are only a few problems with your/Trump’s theory:
1) How do you intercept secure police transmissions with a cellphone?
2) How do decrypt or otherwise defeat police security measures with a cellphone?
3) Assuming you can intercept whatever is being intercepted, and process it into something intelligible in real-time, how do you do anything useful with it while standing 1 foot away from the police?
4) The cops weren’t trying to drop laser guided bombs or predator missiles on the protestors. They were advancing to beat the unarmed protestors in front of them into submission. There could hardly be a more “low-tech” operation.
5) And there was no organized resistance even after the alleged Antifa commando with his James Bond cellphone/handheld-electronic-warfare-module took one for the team.
6) To sum up: it. makes. no. sense.
The entire suggestion is so ridiculous that you should feel embarrassed for giving it even a moment of credence.
Dave (1bb933) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:20 pmmeanwhile, back at the ranch,
https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2020/06/welcome-to-free-capitol-hill-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone-forms-around-emptied-east-precinct/
narciso (7404b5) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:23 pmThe Reverend Al Sharpton delivered a very reasonable speech at the funeral of George Floyd (he does that a lot now.)
He did not once use the word racist I think. He spoke of wickedness in High places.
He cited pr almost cited some Biblical verses., like Psalm 118:22. He said that of George Floyd had had an Ivy League education they would have said they were up in arms (paraphrase) because of his ( forgot wha word he used) If he had been wealthy they would have said it was because of his wealth. If he had been a player in the National Basketball League or National Football League, as he was on a trajectory to be, they would have said it was because of is fame. But God chose him – just an ordinary person.
He incorporated some distortions of fact in his speech, but then so does Joe Biden.
They are going to hold a march n Washington in August.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:27 pmYes, I believe the left-wing media, antifa, and the Democrats. If Trump says the old guy looked to fall harder than he was pushed, TRUMP MUST BE WRONG. why the old guy MUST BE innocent as the driven snow and ORANGE MAN must be COMPLETELY WRONG.
Absurd! Knock yourselves out trump haters. The guy was obviously flopping as they say in bascketball. He wasn’t pushed THAT hard. And why was he so close to the police, anyway?
And gee what about those 17 people killed during the “protests”? Or the hundreds of policemen injured. Nope, lets spent all our time, helping Joe Biden.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:27 pmI don’t see any “Conspiracy Theory” in Trump’s tweet. But remember if the Left/Media push the idea that Trump is Russian Spy or Asset that is NOT a conspiracy. Just average day folks just askin’ questions.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:29 pmHere’s my conspiracy theory. Pelosi and Schumer dressed up in African garb and knelt for 8.5 minutes because they are in a conspiracy of dunces trying to win an election.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:31 pmThis is the bottom line for me because an elderly man ended up cracking his head on the concrete when pushed by two police officers in uniform.
Here Dunphy’s analysis of the officers’ physical contact with Gugino, which he calls “measured and appropriate”:
Dana (0feb77) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:32 pmHere is Gugino being confronted by the peaceful protesters. They don’t want him around. One individual mentions that “he even brought a helmet” and gave me the impression that he thought Gugino was there just to cause a scene.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ConservRachel/status/1268998560412033025
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:37 pm@12 If he’s Catholic workers movement, that’s def NOT violent stuff. They are pretty serious “help the poor” people, Christian service types.
@20 @33 It looks like he’s taking video of badge numbers of the two officers he talks to and then points at something.
@56 Generally speaking, Trump lies more than he tells the truth, therefore the default assumption that he’s lying would be the correct one to make.
@58 I read that the Congressional Black Caucus invited them. Pelosi isn’t in much (any) danger of losing her district.
Nic (896fdf) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:40 pmDana (0feb77) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:32 pm
I think we’re all unified on this point.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:41 pmDave, you get too worked up and don’t read the comments thoroughly. I was happy to not see Ragspierre here for awhile so I assumed I could pop in for a reasonable exchange. I thank all those who participated. There is still a very intelligent group of independent thinkers here despite what has been said about this blog. But I will take a long break again because, unfortunately, once a Dave style of unfounded accusations becomes the focus then a pig pile will occur.
Not interested. Thanks again to those who shared their observations.
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:44 pmhmmm. I may owe Trump an apology. Gugino is clearly doing something provocative/suspicious with his device, and that shove was hardly violent. This is why you wait for all the facts to come in before passing judgment. No wonder all those cops resigned in protest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CubkyIzygQ&feature=emb_title
Brendan (782967) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:46 pmI can’t tell what’s going on, but Gugino is the only person in that video who’s calm and not freaking out.
Dave (1bb933) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:46 pmHA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
Paul Montagu (567b83) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:57 pmDude, the guy is still hospitalized. That’s the opposite of flopping.
Meantime, Trump is spouting sh*t with no evidence, and his loyal defenders keep defending him.
One more comment. Here is the video that shows him falling from a different angle.
https://mobile.twitter.com/fergi2479/status/1269046783117864961
As he goes to confront the officers you will notice in the upper right hand corner, on the steps, is the person who filmed the original video in Dana’s post. If you go back to the video I posted at 2:37 you will see that same person at the end of the footage sitting right next to Gugino. So, apparently, whatever Gugino felt was necessary to tell the cops at the exact moment they started to advance required that he stand separate from his friend and that his friend move to a better vantage point for filming.
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:00 pmLOL.
The guy who advances the theory that a septuagenarian antifa sigint specialist was using a cellphone to single-handedly wage electronic warfare against a riot squad on the streets of Buffalo is accusing *me* of making “unfounded accusations”.
And just for the record, you called me out by name and insulted me when all I had done was vigorously disagree with your speculation.
Dave (1bb933) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:02 pmFor some reason more than the video that I linked showed up. Please disregard the conspiracy nutters and scroll to the Quantum Wayfarer video. It is about the 3rd one down.
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:04 pmPer the Daily Beast, the Putin parrot at OAN who covered the Gugino story got the hot tip from Conservative Treehouse.
Paul Montagu (567b83) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:04 pmMy impression from watching the video is that the older fellow was gesturing at the bag (or something) held by the officer on the right. His phone was in his hand but I don’t think that was the point. His phone was just in his hand and became part of the gesture.
Some of the police had bags on their left side, some didn’t. Maybe he was making a point about whatever they are or what is in them?
It is unfortunate he fell but it is hard to keep our feet as we age, let alone moving backward on concrete that may have ridges. I always seem to trip on the slightest change in the pavement, probably because I don’t pick my feet up as much when I walk. That is even more true going backwards.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:09 pmFurther, being pushed makes it much harder to remain upright but a moving line of police are not there to give directions or take questions.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:12 pmI’ll consolidate it. In this video at one minute and thirty eight seconds you will see the person who did the filming in the imbedded video in Dana’s post. He is holding some sort of equipment. For filming?
https://mobile.twitter.com/ConservRachel/status/1268998560412033025
Here he is again filming his friend/associate during the confrontation.
https://mobile.twitter.com/fergi2479/status/126904678311786496
He doesn’t seem too shocked at what happened to his friend; just keep a steady hand while filming. Just a thought. Could it be that this really was staged so far as to get the cops to rough him up and they didn’t expect him to get severely hurt? I know how I would react if my friend’s head split open in front of me and it certainly wouldn’t be as calm and as collected as his friend.
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:14 pmSorry to see you go buduh
Time123 (9f42ee) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:16 pmhttps://mobile.twitter.com/fergi2479/status/126904678311786496
Sorry. That link is troublesome. Third comment down.
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:18 pmThanks, Time. I’ll hover here for a bit. I just want to avoid the bait to derail the conversation. Check out what I found in the videos. Avoid the second link in my consolidation post. The next post has the correct link.
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:20 pmSeventy-five years old and pushed backwards. I fell on a walk last week. It was a slightly uneven portion of the sidewalk and road. One minute I was standing, the next minute I was splayed out on the ground, face down. Before I even knew what was happening. Horrible road rash and loss of ROM in my shoulder. I would have a hard time not falling backwards when pushed by two strong men, and I’m not that old.
Dana (0feb77) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:21 pmBuduh,
Assume he is a professional protester with his own cameraman. Maybe he even fell after being pushed because he saw it as an opportunity to claim police brutality. Was the blood part of the props?
DRJ (15874d) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:29 pmWell, a conspiracy of dunces won the last one, so success breeds imitators. But nobody can dunce like a Trumper, they are the OG dunces, perfect, 10 out 10.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:32 pmKishnevi (a8b5ef) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:13 pm
I wondered that too but it doesn’t look like he’s making any gestures with the helmet.
BuDuh (b42041) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:14 pm
This also occurred to me and it seems plausible. In the second video, there is something on the steps but he isn’t pointing at that. In the first video, I had the impression he was in a crowd and just walked a few steps towards the cops. But in the second one, there are no people initially in the frame and only 2 guys on the steps. He walked several paces directly to that spot.
I don’t have any idea what this guy was doing and it also makes zero sense that the cops didn’t just stop the line and lay hands on him. There were literally no other protesters they had to maintain the line to contain.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:34 pmI don’t think that was fake. Looked real to me. What do you mean by “props” plural? Did I miss something else in the video?
For the record, I think the kids who confronted him in the first video had it right when they assessed him as a troublemaker. He told them he was there “for fun.” I believe he wanted the cops to manhandle an old man on videotape to prolonged the riots. I think the videographer was in on it. I don’t think either of them planned on him getting his skull cracked, but the videographer was unfazed because the plan was to film brutality.
BuDuh (5d68da) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:43 pmYou found…nothing…not a single thing…not even a conspiracy fabulist would buy that. A paid Russian troll…wait, that is where it came from. Good on you, you earned your rubles today.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:45 pmFor some reason my link at 3:00pm only works in that post. Subsequent attempts to post it have failed. At the end of it you will see that the videographer and the agitator are aquatinted.
BuDuh (5d68da) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:47 pmThe predicted pig pile.
BuDuh (5d68da) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:48 pmSorry. I have them mixed up. The 3:00 pm post is the unfazed videographer in the upper right hand corner.
BuDuh (5d68da) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:50 pmAll these charges about antifa-this and antifa-that ask us to ignore everything we know about the group, and others like it.
Brownshirts and klansmen don’t freelance in groups of one or two, and neither does antifa. And for the same reasons.
First, because they’re cowards who rely on herd mentality and peer reinforcement.
Second because they prefer unequal numbers in their favor. 10 against 1 is the type of engagement they seek out; but 20 to 1 is even better.
A third because, as uniformed terrorists, they aim for shock and psychological effect that is greatly enhanced by having as many identically costumed people acting together in a single mob. What makes them more dangerous and effective is precisely that they have some level of group coherence and tactics when they are on the street.
Dave (1bb933) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:50 pmthey were rewarded in the stimulus isn’t that charming
https://www.foxnews.com/media/axios-george-floyd-protests-bail
narciso (7404b5) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:54 pm“I believe he wanted the cops to manhandle an old man on videotape to prolonged the riots. I think the videographer was in on it.”
Just think, all the cops had to do to foil his clever plan was to not shove him.
Davethulhu (b9acf0) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:00 pmIs big surprise that orange Putin stooge in White House and whatever skin tone Putin stooge in OAN would spit up same borscht.
Heh! Is I am make joke. Is no surprise at all.
nk (1d9030) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:03 pmHere is the NPR link that is referenced above:
https://news.wbfo.org/post/graphic-video-buffalo-police-officers-suspended-after-violently-shoving-man-ground
It turns out the videographer that was chummy with the agitator prior to being in the right spot to film the brutality is with the local NPR station. That probably explains the extra equipment he was saddled with.
I wonder how much more footage of the event the local NPR station played that day. It would be interesting to see more from the event.
BuDuh (5d68da) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:06 pmWe agree.
BuDuh (5d68da) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:07 pmThe initial police statement said that the elderly man tripped. Well, at the very least, can we say that the police officers *helped* him trip? Interestingly, even Trump said the elderly man was “shoved” by the officers.
Dana (0feb77) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:08 pmI heard a recording of Stephen Colbert’s monologue of Friday (it was no doubt video, but I couldn’t find the window in which it was playing – maybe the window had changed to another site bu the audio continued) in which he said that, before they knew there was video, the police organization in question, claimed that Martin Gugino had tripped.
There are many times great distortions in what Colbert says, but this seems like a hard fact.
He also appeared to support for the notion that Attorney General William Barr had collected a real mixed bag of police forces in Washington. There was even “United States police” which turns out to be security guards outside CIA headquarters – who are not police at all, although they can shoot. There were people who didn’t have proper uniforms.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:10 pmI noticed something else in the first link in my 3:14 comment. He isn’t wearing a mask. No Covid worries at that moment, I guess. But when his friend’s camera is rolling and he goes on his one man crusade, he wears his mask. The local health officials must be proud.
BuDuh (5d68da) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:18 pmFor the fall to have been staged is to suspend disbelief. When the man falls, he is very close to a large concrete bollard. He falls backwards without checking to see if he will clear the object, which would have no doubt been catastrophic for him. If this was staged, would a man of that age be able to maintain his balance and footing carefully enough to make sure he avoided hitting the bollard? I don’t think so. It happened too quickly, and he clearly lost his balance by the force rendered against him. It was pure luck that his head missed the concrete object.
Dana (0feb77) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:27 pmBuDuh,
I know you didn’t claim this, but I’m just going to say that, while the video does indeed show him with a mask on when speaking to the police, it doesn’t change what happened to him. A lot of protesters were without masks. And a lot of police officers were without masks too. So I guess local health officials must have been just as proud of law enforcement.
Dana (0feb77) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:29 pmMy question is what are 5’6″ shrimps doing on a riot squad. Some were even women for crying out loud! A normal-sized cop would not have needed to shove the old guy with either a baton or his hands. He would have just grasped him on his upper arms and moved him to one side.
nk (1d9030) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:31 pmI looked at your two links. The second link “doesn’t exist”. In the first one, I can’t make out what they’re arguing about.
Paul Montagu (567b83) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:31 pmThis doesn’t persuade me that Gugino acted or protested violently, and there’s zero evidence that his phone was some sort of “scanner”.
To me, it’s absurd to believe an unfounded assertion made by a crackpot website. It’s on them to back up their allegation, and it’s not on everyone else to disprove.
Dana, let me clarify. I don’t believe that he staged a fall. I am starting to think that he told the videographer that he was going to get the cops all worked up and hopefully they push him around. I don’t think his plan was anything more than to get a clip on tv of an old guy being manhandled. Unfortunately his antics combined with a couple of forceful cops led to his fall.
Again, I don’t think he staged the fall.
BuDuh (5d68da) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:36 pmPaul we agree about the “scanner, and if you followed the whole discussion you would have realized that the two links have nothing to do with “scanning.”
Also, you would have noticed that I was having trouble with the second link so I noted the comment of mine that had a working link.
BuDuh (5d68da) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:39 pmYour cell phone, nor his cell phone, has the capability to do the things you claim it does. It is un-possible.
This isn’t even a slightly clever conspiracy delusion. Video from multiple views shows what happens, it’s obvious. Then the theory goes into some technical mumbo jumbo that cannot happen, to justify a thing that obviously and in public did happened.
This guy doesn’t have Q building magic boxes for him. StingRay’s exist, they’re about 40X the size of a cell phone.
That I had to type this to explain such basic concepts makes me sad.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:48 pmWho are you explaining it to, Klink?
BuDuh (5d68da) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:55 pmAnyone who is ill informed enough to even consider this fantasy as something that is possible outside of a Marvel or Bond movie.
It’s fake, it requires a syphilitic brain, or a severe case of CTE, to believe it.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:08 pm@99-
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:10 pmBuDuh sounds like mind reader.
It is a theory, Rip.
Klink, thanks for clarifying and putting me in the clear of your ire.
BuDuh (78e281) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:13 pm‘Ugh’: Republicans cringe after Trump’s attack on 75-year-old protester
…..
Trump’s tweet Tuesday morning attacking a 75-year old protester in Buffalo — who was shoved by the police and bled from his head after falling — stunned some in a caucus that’s grown used to the president’s active Twitter feed. After examining a print-out of the tweet, Sen. Lisa Murkowski gasped: “oh lord, Ugh.”
“Why would you fan the flames?” she said of the president’s tweet. “That’s all I’m going to say.”
But though the moderate Murkowski was nearly rendered speechless, the missive mostly failed to get a rise out of Senate Republicans. …..
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:15 pm…..
“It’s a serious accusation, which should only be made with facts and evidence. And I haven’t seen any,” said Senate Majority Whip John Thune (R-S.D.) “Most of us up here would rather not be political commentators on the president’s tweets. That’s a daily exercise that is something you all have to cover… Saw the tweet. Saw the video. It’s a serious accusation.”
…..
Republican senators have a well-worn playbook by now if they don’t want to wade into the latest tweet-fueled controversy by saying they hadn’t seen Trump’s latest comments. Still, even when provided paper copies of the president’s tweet on Tuesday, many declined to view them.
…..
Facts and evidence seem to lacking here too.
It is a theory, Rip.
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:16 pmTheory without evidence is speculation.
It is speculation, Rip.
BuDuh (78e281) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:17 pmNo it is a wreckless, defamatory, simpleminded, made up, conspiracy delusion.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:17 pmThe Cesspool That Spat Out Trump’s New Conspiracy About Cops
Out of all the blogs on the pro-Trump internet, The Conservative Treehouse might be the strangest and most underappreciated in terms of its influence.
……
…..The Conservative Treehouse now ranks at roughly the 4,000th most-visited website in the United States, according to Alexa analytics.
…..
…..Talk radio host Mark Levin has called it a “kook site.” Former Breitbart reporter Lee Stranahan dubbed the site’s owner an “egocentric lunatic” with “cult-like followers.”
And yet, despite its reputation (or, perhaps, because of it) The Conservative Treehouse has the president’s ear.
…..
The tweet was sparked by a segment on the Trump-fawning cable news network OAN, which was based on a blog post from The Conservative Treehouse…..
The OAN segment was reported by Kristian Rouz, a Russian journalist who pulled double duty working for the Russian state propaganda channel Sputnik as well as OAN. In it, Rouz claimed Gugino was using “common antifa tactics” and that the incident was “a false flag provocation by far-left group antifa.” He cited The Conservative Treehouse as evidence that Gugino was using a “police tracker” on his phone during the encounter.
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:25 pm….
The Conservative Treehouse post had, indeed, falsely claimed that Gugino used a sophisticated communications device to “scan the mic” of one policeman. “Once the frequency is captured (ie cloned) you can track the device, duplicate the signal and/or listen to a transmission,” the post reads.
….
There are plenty of holes in the theory that Gugino was committing high-tech espionage for antifa. ……[T]he supposed “scanning” he is accused of conducting is technological gibberish, unsupported by evidence.
…..
I’m guessing you haven’t read my comments and interactions with Time123 and Dana and Kishnevi, Klink, and are going off of Dave’s misrepresentations of the dialog. Very unfortunate.
I scrolled back to see where you missed what I was saying and I’m pretty sure you didn’t read any of the earlier conversation.
It appears as though Dana edited her comment at #25 as it no longer matches what I quoted at #26, but the essence remains. Other than that, I’m not sure what you want out of this, Klink. Maybe you can quote anything I wrote that set you off and allow me to clarify? I want to help.
BuDuh (78e281) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:25 pmIt’s Trump steak. His faithful will eat it up. His dung beetles will see their rice bowls still being filled and shrug it off.
nk (1d9030) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:28 pmMaybe not
https://mobile.twitter.com/proteinwisdom/status/1270461295439933440
Narciso (7404b5) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:36 pmI did, BuDuh. I took out the superfluous stuff, but kept the full quote.
Dana (0feb77) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:39 pmLook, don’t you think that pedestrian cell phones had the capability to “scan police communications in order to black out the equipment,” as Trump suggested, that law enforcement would have put a quick end to that, either through their technology or through how phones are manufactured? Is this supposed to be a public secret that our phones can do that? What else can my phone do that I am unaware of? It’s mind-boggling that this conspiracy theory has gotten any legs.
Dana (0feb77) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:44 pmYou mean all of this amplifying of an idiotic delusion that your…”I’m not saying, just saying”…BS?
It’s obvious, it’s juvenile. You know your attempting to spread the conspiracy delusion. It is dumb on every level, and literally comes from the Russian Intelligence Service, it’s not even being laundered, it’s right out in the open, and you’re actively assiting that Russian effort.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:47 pmYou left out my conversation with Kish, Klink. Why?
BuDuh (cdf54c) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:53 pmthat law enforcement would have put a quick end to that, either through their technology or through how phones are manufactured?
I do think that.
BuDuh (cdf54c) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:54 pmIt’s a shocking testament to Trump’s ability to lower his cultists’ mental faculties to the proto-reptilian level of his own.
Is what it is.
Dave (1bb933) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:57 pmSo, can we shelve this as a conspiracy theory, and nothing more?
Dana (0feb77) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:58 pmKlink, all I wanted to know was what anyone thought was going on with his hands. Some people answered and we discussed it. Ultimately I agreed with Kishnevi. I then became interested in the videographer.
This shouldn’t be as controversial as you are making it.
BuDuh (cdf54c) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:59 pmDana, the radio cell phone conspiracy was shelved at 1:57 and 2:08. I’m not sure what the misunderstanding is. The videos and subject matter that I was pursuing during and after that moment involved what was the victim’s intentions.
BuDuh (cdf54c) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:03 pmBecause there’s really not a reason to repeat verbatim all 46 posts on this ridiculous topic after the first 15 instances of your attempted infection by the Ceti eel.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:04 pmHe was holding his phone, as one does. Good lord.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:05 pmAs you stated, the victim, who cares what his intentions are, or did the police have a magic device that saw into his head and found his pre-crime intentions?
You are continuing to amplify this idiocy by shifting the goalposts literally second to second. It’s perfectly obvious what you’re doing…poorly.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:09 pmActually, scrolling back, I see that Time123 speculated exactly what Kishnevi speculated a short while later. I would have agreed sooner had I seen that comment. I posted the slow motion video and Time responded that that video made things more confusing. I only noticed that response. Not his earlier one. My apologies to Time.
This is a lot of work try to explain myself. I’m not sure why I need to.
BuDuh (cdf54c) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:10 pmKlink, there is a reason why you noted early that doing what you do makes you sad. It is because you are a horrible person.
I am sorry I said anything at all.
BuDuh (cdf54c) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:12 pmMaybe so, maybe not, but definitely not a Russian stooge lying on the internet.
Yes, you should absolutely be sorry, ashamed actually.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:15 pmnobody ever escaped from mr colonels stalag
it seems like that should count for something
Dave (1bb933) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:19 pmIs good mention, Comrade Dave. All we know is what we see and hear from news media. Is like learn about Great Patriotic War by watch Hogan’s Heroes.
nk (1d9030) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:24 pmDana, Kishnevi, Time123, DRJ, I wanted to at least take a moment to thank you. You asked questions and I answered them honestly. I had hoped this wouldn’t go this way, but it did. Klink claims a skull and he is applauded.
I was some sort of threat to this community. It is not meant to be. I won’t even lurk here anymore. I was foolish to think that Ragspierre being gone would make the environment decent enough that I could exchange thoughts with some of you. There is a hatred expressed by a few here that is hard to gloss over and it is really destructive.
I am most definitely not accusing everyone of this hatred. Just a few. But sometimes that is enough to spoil everything.
Take care. I will miss reading you guys and gals.
BuDuh (cdf54c) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:34 pmThank you for the work you’ve put into this. I’ve watched the videos you’ve posted and I’m really curious to know what he was doing. I don’t think it’s possible to determine that with a high level of confidence from the recordings. I think a lot of things are possible, but we’re at the point where direct evidence from a real investigation is needed.
Here’s what I think I know right now.
-He approached the police and did not appear threatening. He did not invade their space.
-He appeared to be trying to speak to them. But I could be wrong.
-2 officers pushed him forcefully. They did not appear to warn him or attempt to place him in custody for disobeying a lawful order. They just shoved him, hard.
-He fell down and started bleeding. Audio indicates he was bleeding from his ears.
-The police department’s initial explanation that he tripped was a lie.
I think based on what I know there’s probably cause to open an investigation. There may be probably cause to charge the officers.
The fact that there was prompt action on the part of the department gives me some confidence that a fair and thorough investigation will happen.
Time123 (69b2fc) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:36 pmBuduh, I think Col Klink was rude as hell to you on this for no good reason. I know we all look at this with different pre-conceptions but you were clearly trying to honestly figure out what happened and the personal attacks weren’t called for. just my 2 cents.
Time123 (69b2fc) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:42 pmBuDuh,
Be well. I know you did what you could to have honest interactions, but there are a few on here that disrupt the conversation whenever it doesn’t go exactly as they insist. You added a lot to the conversation today. Thank you for it.
I think he had his phone out because he was videotaping and trying to record the conversation. I expect he was being provocative and trying to get the police to say/do something stupid.
NJRob (f22bea) — 6/9/2020 @ 7:13 pm130. Time123 (69b2fc) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:36 pm
Well, he may answer this sooner or later – or not – but it looks like he was trying to get a reading. But he couldn’t tell in real time whether it was picking up anything or not, or in a position to if it was there – so he tried twice just to make sure. What he was trying to determine was probably if they had some piece of equipment which would emit certain radio frequencies. This piece of equipment may be something that is real or may be totally imaginary.
His friend from the media was prepared to photograph something. hat may not be what happened though.
He’s been accused of carrying fake blood with him, but regardless of that, the fact that he is in the hospital probably means he suffered real injury.
I don’t think it’s possible to determine that with a high level of confidence from the recordings. I think a lot of things are possible, but we’re at the point where direct evidence from a real investigation is needed.
Here’s what I think I know right now.
-He approached the police and did not appear threatening. He did not invade their space.
-He appeared to be trying to speak to them. But I could be wrong.
-2 officers pushed him forcefully. They did not appear to warn him or attempt to place him in custody for disobeying a lawful order. They just shoved him, hard.
-He fell down and started bleeding. Audio indicates he was bleeding from his ears.
-The police department’s initial explanation that he tripped was a lie.
I think based on what I know there’s probably cause to open an investigation. There may be probably cause to charge the officers.
The fact that there was prompt action on the part of the department gives me some confidence that a fair and thorough investigation will happen.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/9/2020 @ 7:14 pmMaybe some people can tell.
But their space was approaching,
He was scanning them maybe.
They had no time.
I have no idea.
Or an assumption.
I think based on what I know there’s probably cause to open an investigation. There may be probably cause to charge the officers.
The fact that there was prompt action on the part of the department gives me some confidence that a fair and thorough investigation will happen.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/9/2020 @ 7:18 pmA person is not supposed to be injured and then ignored. And they had bad orders.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/9/2020 @ 7:19 pmBig majorities support protests over Floyd killing and say police need to change, poll finds
Americans overwhelmingly support the nationwide protests that have taken place since the killing of George Floyd at the hands of police in Minneapolis, and they say police forces have not done enough to ensure that blacks are treated equally to whites, according to a Washington Post-Schar School poll.
President Trump receives negative marks for his handling of the protests, with 61 percent saying they disapprove and 35 percent saying they approve. Much of the opposition to Trump is vehement, as 47 percent of Americans say they strongly disapprove of the way the president has responded to the protests.
Rip Murdock (a217ed) — 6/9/2020 @ 7:19 pm……..
Overall, 74 percent of Americans say they support the protests……
………
The recent demonstrations have bipartisan appeal, with 87 percent of Democrats saying they support them, along with 76 percent of independents. Among Republicans, the majority — 53 percent — also back the protests.
………
Casting ahead to the November election, which pits Trump against former vice president Joe Biden, half of all Americans (50 percent) say they prefer a president who can address the nation’s racial divisions, compared with 37 percent who say they want a president who can restore security by enforcing the law. …….
……….
Oh FFS, you understand that tricorders are only on the TeeVee?
Did you people hit your head or something? Please show me where you can buy this magic box.
This is what a real world version of the thing you are speculating on, it requires multiple vehicles, and it costs about $1.2M each. A 75 year old man developed one that is 1/25,0000th the size, and looks just like a Samsung Galaxy phone, he’s also a billionaire, he’s Tony Stark/Ironman. Sure, Antifa. Good lord.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 7:59 pmHe wasn’t holding a tricorder, he was checking, or looks like he was checking, or trying to check, if the policemen had something or other. That’s what it looks like. The ting he was checking the police for might be something that is imaginary.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:10 pmSo he walked up and asked a question and they plowed him over, was that somehow difficult to say? Nice and succinct, also not as completely ridiculous, er, imaginary.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:22 pmDoes that tricorder device also have a bunker inspection feature?
Asking for a friend.
Dave (1bb933) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:30 pmWell, count me as one of the bewildered. It’s not clear to me why a person would choose this Gugino Conspiracy hill to die on, especially when it involves zero evidence and 100% speculation, originally sourced from a conspiracy website. It’s not something I’d put my credibility on the line for, this tacit defense of a fact-deficient conspiracy-mongering president.
Paul Montagu (094a64) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:30 pmI don’t believe it’s possible to scan, copy or disrupt police communication with a common cell phone. Something like that would require highly specialized equipment and inside knowledge of police frequencies.
I don’t know what this old man was doing. Maybe he was there as a provocateur, misbelieving he was reliving 1968. That’s why the other protesters didn’t want him around. This is a youth movement, and the protests in 1968 were for a completely different reason. Then it was about the Vietnam war, the draft, the shootings at Kent State. Now it’s about police brutality, racial inequality and social injustice.
Howbeit, the old man just didn’t belong. He confronted the police, was shoved away, stumbled backwards and fell, cracked his skull, was bleeding and clearly in distress. The police did not render aid, which is their sworn duty. That alone requires an investigation.
It does not mandate the firing of police officers. Relegate them to desk duty while the investigation is conducted. That numerous officers resigned as a result of the mishandling of this incident is an indication of the problem.
The union has their backs. That’s what these protests are all about. Qualified immunity, union protection, allow the police to commit all sorts of crimes against the citizenry without consequence, including asset forfeiture of people who have committed no crime.
Clearly, serious reform is needed, but it has to be intelligent reform. I support the police and condemn any violence against them. Police officers perform a vital function in a civil society. But I do not agree with a militarized police force. That’s the road to ruin.
We are at a crossroad, in a crossfire hurricane, at this time. If this American experiment is to be successful, we do need serious reform.
Biden attended the funeral of George Floyd. That was smart, politically. Trump met with police officers. That was stupid, politically.
These protests are not against the police, per se. They’re against institutional discrimination. For Trump to support the police, as the “law and order” president, without offering any intelligent ideas for reform, calling for “domination” of protesters, is unseemingly. But that’s standard Trump procedure. He promotes conspiracy theories that he thinks promote him.
It’s a long way to the election, about five months. The pandemic rages, businesses are ravaged, unemployment is high, protesters are marching. None of this looks good for a president that has never had a 50% approval rating.
Not that Biden would do any better. I won’t be voting for either.
Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:45 pmDave, your a physicist right? Do you think you could help with the last set of numbers for the orthogonal multiverse coordinate of this earth, my smart watch is a BTP2 (Brane Transportation Portal (Mobile), v2.0)? I still have 70% charge left and I want to go back. I was supposed to be going to Hawaii, but I used my BTP right after installing the new firmware. I’ve done a factory reset, and I have the home coordinates saved, but this reality doesn’t seem to register, so I need my origination point figured out, destination is fine. I’m just a user, but there’s a help file that maybe you could figure out?
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:46 pmPaul Montagu (094a64) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:30 pm
This is my reading on both sides of this. There’s nothing here that says antifa and these cops aren’t racist cogs in the machine of oppression. Investigate everything, determine what went wrong, what should be done about it and move on.
That Trumpers are running interference about antifa is no less ridiculous than antiTrumpers playing a bad Br’er Rabbit.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:47 pmThat Dunphy, who I assume many (perhaps most) of the regulars here would consider one of the “good apples” went into embarrassing histrionics (“and shame on Erie County district attorney John Flynn, who handed over a pair of scalps to the mob in the apparent hope they will choose him last when they take to hanging people from the lampposts”) over the travesty–his word choice–of these cops being charged is a perfect encapsulation of why so many people are pissed off. He really thinks that everything they did was just fine and they should escape consequences. Keep in mind, THAT’S ONE OF THE GOOD ONES.
I wonder if Dunphy would extend the same courtesies to a bar patron who shoved another during a fight, and the victim awkwardly fell and suffered serious injuries. Us ordinary joes don’t get the benefit of the doubt; we (at least in my state) are criminally liable for our reckless acts.
JohnnyAgreeable (1b878e) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:52 pmIt sounds like you may need an extra-hot cup of tea for your Infinite Improbability Drive.
Dave (1bb933) — 6/9/2020 @ 9:02 pmOn no account, tea, specifically English Breakfast, was what was used on the original design of the Bambleweeny 57, what was found that if you used a 58 or 59 with an atomic vector plotter suspended in Bandrek, it’s the Cinnamon really, that you get a more accurate jump. Usually only off by a reality or two, its fine. I was running the beta firmware, and someone (me?) forgot to reset the Total Perspective Vortex transponder to -1 before the reset, so it would receive a new ID. To be fair, it wasn’t in the readme, although I only looked at it after.
So it captured my there then but it didn’t get to pull my hear now before it lost connection the the 843G network, apparently the towers are the wrong color here.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 9:23 pmEither you didn’t watch a full video and are ignorant of the truth or you are lying. Medics were on the scene right behind the police and provided immediate aid. He’s pushed at 23 seconds in, aid begins at 43 seconds. And that’s with the crowd being there.
I wonder what’s happened to your posts. You used to be better than this.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/9/2020 @ 9:47 pmAngry White Counterprotesters in N.J. Mock George Floyd’s Killing
The protest in the New Jersey township was similar to those that have unfolded across the United States since George Floyd was killed in police custody: About 70 people gathered to rally against police brutality and systemic racism.
……..[I]t was met by several white men who had gathered near a sign that said “All Lives Matter” and in front of a pickup truck draped with an American flag and a pro-Trump sign.
One of the men yelled at the marchers angrily while kneeling on the neck of another who was facedown on the ground — an apparent attempt to mock the killing of Mr. Floyd………
Rip Murdock (a217ed) — 6/9/2020 @ 10:07 pm………
On Tuesday, the state’s Department of Corrections said it had suspended one of its employees after confirming that he was among the group that taunted and tried to upset the protesters. One man in the group can be seen on video filming the protesters.
……….
Late Tuesday, FedEx confirmed that one of its employees had also taken part in the counterprotest and had been fired as a result.
………
In addition to mocking Mr. Floyd’s death, …… the men on the side of the road had yelled, “If George Floyd would have complied he wouldn’t be dead”; “Go cash your checks”; “Start running”; and “Black Lives Matter to no one” as the group passed.
……….
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/8-in-10-want-police-funding-increased-or-maintained-sheriffs
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/9/2020 @ 10:15 pmThat’s a shocking result for a survey for National Sheriffs Association! Only 53%-must be within the (unknown) margin of error.
Not surprising there are no details on survey methodology or margin of error.
Rip Murdock (a217ed) — 6/9/2020 @ 10:35 pmI really can’t comment on the conspiracy crap because it would make be stupider to do so. But I don’t think I’d charge the officers in a situation where they look surrounded by hostile protesters seemingly intent on provoking a confrontation. The cops pushed this guy back after he got in their face and had a few things to say. Yes he fell, and yes he seems to have hit his head but the police did not act recklessly or with intent to injure — just to move the man along. That he stumbled seems to be due to his own clumsiness. Really.
I doubt the charges will stick; if filed they were filed for purely political reasons.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:05 amThis guy is a lunatic.
Really Dave? You thing that’s “felony assault”? It’s more like “don’t spit into the wind.”
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:09 amAny ideas?
Yeah. He’s waving his hands in their faces while screaming a string of four-letter words. I note one of the officers immediately call for an ambulance.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:12 amHere’s my conspiracy theory. Pelosi and Schumer dressed up in African garb and knelt for 8.5 minutes because they are in a conspiracy of dunces trying to win an election.
There’s apparently two conspiracies of dunces. It’s a dumberer contest.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:15 amTrump aside, and ideology aside, I’m doubtful that most DA’s would file felony assault charges here, and I’d be astounded if a grand jury indicted. I doubt they’ll be fired either.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:19 amThe police did not render aid, which is their sworn duty. That alone requires an investigation.
You can see the trailing officer (who told them to move the guy aside) is calling for an ambulance within 5 seconds. It is NOT their job to render aid. Their job is to move this demonstration along, as they were told to do. The ambulance crew that is standing by is supposed to render aid — that’s THEIR job. And they did.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:22 amBiden attended the funeral of George Floyd. That was smart, politically. Trump met with police officers. That was stupid, politically.
Disagree. Trump didn’t need to show up at the funeral — that was going to be a hostile crowd no matter what. Trump meeting with police officers is fine, and will play well with the bourgeoisie whom he hopes to win.
The current moral panic is being flamed by the press, but aside from the activists it will be forgotten in November when everyone has jobs in a booming recovery.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:25 am@ NJRob I did watch the videos, will admit I don’t know the truth of what happened (neither do you), but I am not lying.
Clearly, this old man did not belong at this protest. He was there for a different reason, what I cannot imagine. Did you see any of the young protesters confront the police in the way he did? No.
Still, for the police to shove him down and march by, while he’s bleeding on the sidewalk, is inexcusable. Failure to render aid is an actionable offense. Yeah, there were paramedics nearby that could render aid, but that does not excuse police behavior. At least one of them should have stopped to render aid until the paramedics arrived, even if for only half a minute. That is their sworn duty.
And it’s not my posts you need to wonder about. It’s yours. You used to be better than this.
All I’m saying is that the idea that this old man was some sort of Antifa conspirator waving a cell phone to disrupt police communications is absurd. But he did not deserve to be shoved to the streets and left bleeding on a sidewalk, while police marched by.
@ Kevin M We’ll just have to agree to disagree. Trump has done nothing to offer condolences to the Floyd family, except make a few comments at a space launch.
You’re damn right it would have been a hostile environment if he had attended the funeral. He keeps calling for domination by police, using the National Guard and even the US military to squash protesters, by any means necessary.
It’s just bad optics. Biden attended a funeral with respect. Trump met with police officers, with disrespect. Disrespect to the people the police are supposed to serve and protect. There’s a disconnect there.
Either way you look at it, it’s just bad all around.
Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:59 amΚαθένας με την τρέλα του, κι αυτός με την ομπρέλα του.
“Martin Gugino, who has been identified as an activist and a member of the Western New York Peace Center” is a lifelong professional protester and agitator. The Last Of The Hippies.
nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:12 amI understand wanting to figure out this guy’s motives and sympathies in being at this protest. People typically avoid protests unless they want to take sides. Wondering about this guy’s motives reminds me of those who speculated about the Covington kids at the Supreme Court.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:25 amWell, DRJ, I’ll tell you, for most of this past decade, when I go to the bank and ask the teller to “check my balance”, I make it very clear that I mean my account balance.
Yes, yes, it is a doddering old man joke and I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one here who is entitled to make it.
nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:01 amI don’t know what you mean about “bad Br’er Rabbit”, frosty, but on one side you have a “news” network that did no actual reporting, just picked up on a baseless rumor from Conservative Treehouse and then used slowed-down video to make a man’s actions look suspicious. And of course, Trump picked up on that because he’s still trying to sell the bogus narrative that Antifa has been behind the violence, which is increasingly being confirmed as a lie.
Paul Montagu (91c593) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:11 amMeantime, the MSM did some actual reporting and interviewed people who actually knew Mr. Gugino and, like an angry Dennis Green, he is who we thought he was: An annoying hippy who protests about whatever lefty cause blows his skirt up but is pretty much harmless.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:46 pm
Have you tried rebooting it? Good luck and Godspeed.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 8:00 am141. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:22 pm
No, except that he might not have been asking a question, but trying to detect radio waves. He was not going to interfere with them except by blocking their path. (the idea of interfering with transmissions is just made up, but this is so political that the idea of fake blood can;t be ruled out. They still pushed him without stopping.
What I said was that was he was doing might have been ridiculous. It looks like he was trying to measure something.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/10/2020 @ 8:24 amPaul Montagu (91c593) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:11 am
Br’er Rabbit is from a collection of folk tails that have African and American Indian roots. In one story Fox sets up a trap for Rabbit by dressing up a dummy made from tar and sets it along Rabbit’s path. Rabbit addresses the dummy as he passes and when we doesn’t get a response the situation escalates. Rabbit punches the dummy and gets stuck in the tar. This escalates further and soon Rabbit is completely trapped. Fox comes along and while he’s trying to figure out what to do with Rabbit, Rabbit convinces him that the worst thing possible would be to throw him into the briar patch. Fox complies but it turns out briar patches are Rabbit’s natural habit and he gets away from Fox.
A variant of the tar-baby tail has been found in folk tails around the world. It’s a trickster narrative and those are universal. It tells a story about what should be an obvious trap, the effect pride can have on decisions, there’s a good money after bad or a doubling down element, etc. In the original stories, Rabbit and Fox are equally matched so it goes back and forth with each being tricked by the other. Both are tricksters so there’s not an obvious “good” guy. In the more recent versions, the Rabbit can be interpreted as southern slaves and Fox (and his buddy Bear) as slave owners.
In the tar-baby story, Rabbit was able to extract himself from the trap with the help of Fox. A bad Br’er Rabbit isn’t able to do that and probably hasn’t even noticed yet that he’s stuck.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 8:29 am” they look surrounded by hostile protesters seemingly intent on provoking a confrontation.”
There’s literally one other guy on the sidewalk, not counting the person filming.
Davethulhu (b9acf0) — 6/10/2020 @ 8:40 amGawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:45 pm
I don;t think that was what he was doing. But he might have believed he had downloaded some app that would tell him what equipment the police were carrying or that they were using a certain frequency, or something.
And what he was trying to detect might have been something totally imaginary – or not – and the app he had loaded could have been a fraud. He might have been trying to detect a hot spot. Like an infrared thermometer, which would supposedly show hidden weapons perhaps. Even if he didn’t really have any kind of equipment that would do it. Although he wasn’t quite sure ow to use it – what distance to hold it from their trousers.
Trump isn’t right that there was real cause for pushing him down.
Police brutality is an old cause. Back in 1963, Lee Harvey Oswald complained about it after he had shot and killed President Kennedy and Office Tippett.
What kind of orders did they get? That was the problem. They apparently had some kind of orders to march like wooden unhuman soldiers.
They all resigned because they all would have done the same thing. But it wasn’t right.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/10/2020 @ 9:00 amIt is not a queston of meeting demands, While there may be some things that can be done right sway, intelligent reform can’t be done by a snap decision. They’ll pass things that are useless, and they’ll pass things that are not good. The U.S. constitution wasn’t written in one day. It doesn’t take years, especially if there;s been some prior discussion r writings, but, even if you are trying.to act quickly, it does take weeks and months, and the involvement of a bunch of people,
Well he did two things: He had aprivate meeting with the family in a restaurant the day George Eliot lay in state, and he spoke a the funeral by video from his home in Delaware. Anything more would ahe involved the Secret Service disrupting things.He said that what he spoke about with the family was about it is difficult to mourn bu it is even more difficult to ourn in public – and that had happened to him.
Especially to play up the family instead of Black Lives MAtter. Biden had an prepared answer to the question of defunding the police, too. Yes he was for defunding something: Federal aid to local police forces that didn’t meet certain standards
Trump did call the family, but it was mostly a monologue, they indicated.
Then, on Friday, he said that the unemployment rate had gone down and George was looking down from heaven happily at that. (!) That was probably because of the idea he has that blacks should be (and would be) supporting him because of the economy. (Trump didn’t notice, or perhaps care, that it was just a small reversal in the unemployment rate, albeit an increase of 5% had been predicted) or that there was no change in the subcategory of blacks (it got a tiny bit worse but well within the margin of error.)
And with his law enforcement rhetoric some of his limitations came through.
No, they’re not. They’re against an imaginary decision to mistreat, and even kill, specifically blacks. So all the powers that be have to do is change their mind. Which is not true.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/10/2020 @ 9:06 amUm, right, I read the story to my kids. The question is how it applies to “antiTrumpers”.
Paul Montagu (91c593) — 6/10/2020 @ 9:08 amWondering about this guy’s motives reminds me of those who speculated about the Covington kids at the Supreme Court.
Agreed. All that you can do is look at his behavior and ask what part, if any, he contributed to the situation. It looked to me that he was getting in a cop’s face during a tense situation. Something that takes an amazing level of presumed privilege to do. I sure wouldn’t. He spit into the wind, assuming the wind would respect him.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/10/2020 @ 9:54 amThen, on Friday, he said that the unemployment rate had gone down and George was looking down from heaven happily at that. (!)
(!) indeed. I said long ago that he was being impeached for the wrong things. Being too stupid to be in politics would have been sustainable.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/10/2020 @ 9:56 amAre people upset that the cops pushed him back, or just that his white privilege wasn’t honored?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:00 amAre people upset that the cops pushed him back, or just that his white privilege wasn’t honored?
I think it’s the subdural hematoma that he’ll probably never recover from, Kevin.
nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:02 amWhy didn’t he use his communicator to get Scotty to beam him directly to sick bay?
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:06 amI fibbed a little. I wanted to stop back by and see what direction the thread took after last night. I really don’t see much that makes me want to stay. Thanks again for the kind words from some.
Separately, Kevin, that is not at all what Trump said. You have been snookered. I posted the complete speech on the thread that promoted a notion that Trump said nothing at all:
https://patterico.com/2020/06/02/presidents-talk/
BuDuh (b75c0d) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:18 amWhoops. Different speech.
Sorry. The correct transcript is elsewhere, but I won’t waste anymore of everyone’s time.
BuDuh (b75c0d) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:24 amHere:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-jobs-numbers-report/
BuDuh (b75c0d) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:27 amA speech from May 31st in Florida, is not a speech from June 5th in Washington, so it’s kind of dishonest to intentionally try to mislead today, like, yesterday, and…
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:29 amPaul Montagu (91c593) — 6/10/2020 @ 9:08 am
Rabbit had to stop when he ran out of paws and he was clever enough to make a getaway. NeverTrump has an infinite amount of paws and can never pass a stupid Trump tweet w/o taking a swat. Once they’ve taken a swat and they’ve gotten stuck they mistake that for them having landed a good hit and deciding to not let go. Taking a swat, aka the obvious framing/reframing of the issue is a trap.
In this case, the original story was cops abused old man who Trump claims is Antifa. Trump threw out a bunch of tar (about radio interference and scanning or whatever we’re pretending this is supposed to be) but the question is was it staged. I hadn’t seen the video but this called attention to it. After seeing it, I think it was staged. I don’t think the injury was faked (I think that was an unexcepted turn), I think the cops should be investigated, etc. but this isn’t the story I thought it was before Trump/NeverTrump started in on it. I don’t think I’m the only one in that boat. Not only are some elements of NeverTrump incapable of admitting that this might be staged they make claims that are obviously not supported by the video. They’ve got a firm grip on that tar-baby and they’re really teaching it a lesson. If you’re marshaling responses to my tar-baby analogy within the framing of this issue you are still stuck to the tar-baby.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:34 amOkay, frosty. Convoluted, but okay, whatever.
Paul Montagu (91c593) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:46 amLike with “scanners” and “Antifa provocateur” and such, “staged” is just another assertion without evidence. But sure, go with that. All the factless speculation, which is really what this is (along with being a tacit defense of Trump), is interesting, like rubber-necking at a car wreck is interesting.
Trump Job Approval Slides to 39%-Gallup
President Donald Trump’s job approval rating has fallen to 39% amid nationwide protests about racial injustice. His ratings this year had been the best of his presidency but are now back near his term average of 40%.
The latest reading is from a May 28-June 4 poll, conducted as protests occurred throughout the country after the May 25 death of George Floyd. ……
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:46 am……
Trump’s latest job approval rating fell significantly among all party groups, and by similar margins among each. This includes drops of seven percentage points among Republicans (to 85%) and independents (to 39%), and nine points among Democrats (to 5%).
…….
Forty-seven percent of Americans approve of President Trump’s handling of the economy, a decline from 63% in January and 58% in February. Approval of Trump’s handling of the economy had not been under 50% since November 2017, when 45% approved.
…….
……
And since is another day in the week, it’s a another day in the week involving Michael Flynn. Today, it’s about the 82-page brief by former federal judge Gleeson. Politico:
Here’s the main gist from the brief.
In other words, if the Executive Branch wants to get their political ally out of a legal jam, the way to do it is with a presidential pardon, not this preemptive act.
Paul Montagu (91c593) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:59 amSo Gleeson copied his Washington Post editorial. Got it.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/10/2020 @ 11:22 amDid he? Good. I like consistency in court filings and public statements. It is especially refreshing in the Trump era.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/10/2020 @ 11:49 amPaul Montagu (91c593) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:46 am
It seems like you’re really having trouble separating discussion of the issue from discussion about the framing. Let’s try this; I make no claims about whether it was staged or not. I completely agree that this should be investigated. Assume for the purpose of discussion that I agree with you about whatever is going on in this video. What was your goal? To have this investigated? That was already happening. To prove Trump says stupid things? That’s already been established. What do you think has been accomplished with the debate over the video?
I love this argument. Basically, pointing out flaws in an argument and not participating in the 2 minutes of hate is a tacit defense of Trump.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 11:55 am@188, I think he’s looking for “because of this you should admit Trump is horrible and vote for Biden.”
FWIW i think your position on this has been pretty reasonable.
Time123 (d1bf33) — 6/10/2020 @ 12:10 pm@185-
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/10/2020 @ 12:21 pmPerfect guy for the job.. He’s a former mob prosecutor.
Why not, it’s 100% perfectly and completely idiotic to even entertain a single one of the pyramid of stupidity that this fantasy promotes. Every single one.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 12:31 pmThe media, Democrats and NeverTrump: Willfully Buffalo’d in Buffalo.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/10/2020 @ 12:36 pmTo answer your questions…
One, to point out that the Gugino Truthers have no evidence. It’s complete speculation, instigated by a Russian propagandist.
Two, I presume this has been investigated and is continuing to be investigated. We haven’t yet seen bodycam footage, assuming there is some, or an indictment.
Three, every word that Trump tweets is the official position of the Office of the President. It’s more than reasonable, IMO, to call out that official word when it’s chock-filled with lies and bullsh*t. He works for you and me, so he’s not above criticism or praise, depending on what he says or does.
Four, what do you think is accomplished with any conversation on the internet? Sometimes minds are changed, most times not.
These are your words: “I think it is staged,” spoken without a shred of evidence, so you really haven’t made an argument, from what I can see.
Paul Montagu (e6225d) — 6/10/2020 @ 12:43 pmI love this. I think it’s staged, by these 8 things that do not exist in the world and are obviously dumb. If we assume all these lies to be true, then…well I’m just saying.
That’s why they are conspiracy delusions.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 12:52 pmTrump campaign demands CNN apologize for poll that shows Biden leading
President Donald Trump’s campaign is demanding CNN retract and apologize for a recent poll that showed him well behind presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden.
The demand, coming in the form of a cease and desist letter to CNN President Jeff Zucker, was immediately rejected by the network.
……..
The CNN poll conducted by SSRS and released on Monday shows Trump trailing the former vice president by 14 points, 55%-41%, among registered voters. It also finds the President’s approval rating at 38% — his worst mark since January 2019, and roughly on par with approval ratings for one-term Presidents Jimmy Carter and George H.W. Bush at this point in their reelection years — and his disapproval rating at 57%.
…….
In the letter to Zucker, the Trump campaign argued that the CNN poll is “designed to mislead American voters through a biased questionnaire and skewed sampling.”
“It’s a stunt and a phony poll to cause voter suppression, stifle momentum and enthusiasm for the President, and present a false view generally of the actual support across America for the President,”…….
Rip Murdock (a217ed) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:12 pm……
The campaign formally requested that CNN retract the poll and publish a “full, fair, and conspicuous retraction, apology, and clarification to correct its misleading conclusions.”
……
The letter to Zucker also includes ………criticism that the poll, conducted between June 2 and 5, was taken “before the great economic news,” an improvement in the jobless rate that was released on Friday, even though the poll was still being conducted throughout that day.
……..
…….[T] the poll unfairly includes “questions on issues including race relations, not job creation, which could have biased the poll further,” though CNN’s survey does ask registered voters who would better handle the economy (Trump leads 51% to Biden’s 46%) and was conducted at the height of the Floyd protests.
……..
Comedy gold!
Whatever he thought he was doing, that communicator (if that’s what it was, and people are generally assuming that that’s what it was) didn’t connect him to Star Trek and he didn’t think it did.
This 21st century device probably had a lot of capabilities – it was a phone, but also had a screen and could be used as a picture phone, like Dick Tracy, and could be used to clumsily type short messages to devices that connected to a delivery system. It could be used to tell you the time, aor as a calculator, nd could take pictures, including moving pictures, that were recorded electronically and didn’t need to be developed and were instantly visible and could also be sent somewhere else. Messages and pictures could be left in publicly accessible ways as well as directed only to one or a limited number of individuals.
It could be used as well for watching movies, and connecting to an enormous amount of stored visual and audio material. An enormous number of things could be done as a result, like getting directions, or finding out where to buy things, or ordering things by mail order, or even to deposit checks in banks by taking a picture of the check. (this did not work for currency, though)
It ran on batteries with a limited period of use, which however could be recharged. Occasionally batteries might explode in an unpredictable manner, but this was largely not a problem.
It probably couldn’t take anyone’s temperature, however, unless maybe a special thermometer was plugged in.
We heaven’t heard anything about this man’s medical condition. It might be very bad.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:39 pm195. Trump, as a private citizen, used to file ridiculous lawsuits.
This is hardly the only poll that’s going to be published between June and November.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:47 pmPaul Montagu (e6225d) — 6/10/2020 @ 12:43 pm
This may not be evidence you agree with but:
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:34 pm
He walked up and engaged the cops for no obvious reason. It might not be enough to make you question what’s going on but it isn’t a claim made without a shred of evidence. Is that a comment you didn’t see?
Did you read the post?
You presume something other than charges have been filed and there is an ongoing investigation. Do you presume this press announcement is a clever Russian plot? Has it occurred to you that calling everything a clever Russian plot might not be working?
Feel better after getting that off your chest? Do you understand the difference between you hearing “don’t criticize” and me saying “your criticism isn’t very effective”?
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:51 pmColonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 12:52 pm
Still haven’t made any progress with your BTP2? Keep trying, I’ve got my fingers crossed it works out for you.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:55 pmPaul, what is it you think Frosty has been saying? He’s been clear from the beginning that this bothered him and he wanted an investigation.
Time123 (d1bf33) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:02 pmTime123 (d1bf33) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:02 pm
It sounds like he thinks I’m trying to undermine his argument and secretly support Trump by eroding the criticism against him. I’m the bad guy in the Scooby-Doo episodes and pulling my mask off is an essential part of foiling my Trump-supporting plans.
It was a mistake to include a comment about the video in my comment about the discussion of the video. It was only there to illustrate how the discussion might have backfired against people trying to criticize Trump’s tweet.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:12 pmWhat you really only know is that he walked up to the police. You don’t know his motivations, so divining intentions from his act is speculation. Guesswork. We also know that he’s a semi-professional activist who has had previous interactions with police. Beyond that, maybe we should hear from the guy himself.
As for an investigation, how do you prosecute a couple of cops without one? It’s not as if they’re going to just lay down and say “throw the book at me.”
That’s what you call a disingenuous question. I never said it was a Russian plot and I don’t call “everything a clever Russian plot”. But I have to ask: Why does it not bother you that this story was trotted out by a confirmed Russian propagandist? Why does it not bother you that this “correspondent” has some serious credibility issues? Maybe that’s a reason why your argument isn’t all that effective, IMO.
Paul Montagu (e6225d) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:33 pmIt’s why I was asking, Time.
Paul Montagu (e6225d) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:35 pmPaul Montagu (e6225d) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:33 pm
Yep. That’s how looking at evidence works. More evidence would be better but I’ve got to work with what I’ve got. But your statement that I thought it was staged based on what I could see in the video without a shred of evidence is, at best, not correct. You haven’t walked it back or corrected yourself. Like Rabbit you just keep smacking the tar baby.
Paul Montagu (567b83) — 6/9/2020 @ 2:57 pm is Russian plot free.
Paul Montagu (567b83) — 6/9/2020 @ 3:04 pm has a reference to Putin.
Paul Montagu (567b83) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:31 pm has a reference to the crackpot website.
Paul Montagu (094a64) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:30 pm website again.
Paul Montagu (91c593) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:11 am crackpot website.
Paul Montagu (91c593) — 6/10/2020 @ 9:08 am Russian plot free.
Paul Montagu (91c593) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:46 am Russian plot free.
Paul Montagu (91c593) — 6/10/2020 @ 10:59 am Russian plot free.
Paul Montagu (e6225d) — 6/10/2020 @ 12:43 pm Russian propaganda.
Paul Montagu (e6225d) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:33 pm Russian plot free.
Paul Montagu (e6225d) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:35 pm Russian plot free.
I stand corrected. You don’t call everything a Russian plot.
Seriously, with are you now or have ever
been a member of the communist partydenied this was propaganda? Do you seriously not understand what I’ve said multiple times. Have I said it doesn’t bother me? I’ve tried very hard to only make comments based on things I could see for myself in the video. The video you refer to as not a shred of evidence. To paraphrase something made in a recent comment; you don’t know my motivations and you are divining my intentions. It is guesswork. Me not having a problem with the source of the story is a figment of your imagination. It is something you have crafted to explain to yourself why I don’t agree with you. Actually, in this case, it’s a way to back into an ad hominem without being obvious.But you asked a question and I’ll try to answer it in good faith. There are really two issues there; 1) do I care about the source of the story at all and 2) do I care whether Trump cited it in a tweet. I care about the source of the story but I can go look at the video directly and make up my own mind. The source of the story makes me skeptical but it isn’t all I have to work with. I care about Trump citing it in a tweet but I don’t have anything interesting to say about that. I can’t change it. Other people have said anything I would say better. This isn’t the first time I’ve made this point either. I do not play the 2 minutes of hate game. The only value in me saying anything is to virtue signal. I have no use for that and that is the sand in your shorts. You, and a number of others here, really want some sort of validation. Everyone has to say the code word of the day or they aren’t on your team. If those are the rules I’m not on that team.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:47 pmPaul Montagu (e6225d) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:33 pm
I don’t understand this sentence. What are you trying to say? The prosecutor has stated his intent to prosecute. What do you think is going on with the prosecutor?
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:11 pm