When The Angry Mob Comes For You
[guest post by Dana]
This is a horrible story, all the way around. During protests last week, a male cyclist was accused of attacking a young woman who was posting fliers against police brutality in Maryland. The suspect was later arrested:
A cyclist on a Maryland trail who was captured on video roughly grabbing a young woman while she posted fliers against police brutality was arrested and charged Friday with three counts of second-degree assault, the police said.
The Maryland-National Capital Park Police said the cyclist, Anthony Brennan III, 60, of Kensington, Md., was tracked down after the agency received hundreds of tips from people who had seen the video, which has been viewed more than 29 million times on Twitter.
The police said that Mr. Brennan was biking along the Capital Crescent Trail near Washington on Monday at about 12:45 p.m. when he came upon three young people who were hanging fliers. Two of them were 19 and one was 18.
The fliers, described as “a call for community action,” read: “A man was lynched by the police. What are you going to do about it?” according to Captain Jeffrey Coe, a spokesman for the Maryland-National Capital Park Police.
Mr. Brennan began to argue about the fliers and “forcibly grabbed” them from one of the teenagers, the police said. He then pushed his bicycle toward another one of the teens and caused him to fall to the ground, the police said.
While I’m glad that the authorities were able to locate the suspect with the help from the public, it should be noted that the mob isn’t always helpful. In fact, in this case, they were downright terrifying. Consider that, before Brennan was arrested, Peter Weinberg, a finance marketing executive from Maryland, had been identified on Twitter as the man on the bike. And because of being mistakenly identified as the suspect, Weinberg found himself at the center of an ugly mob, accusing him of assaulting a young woman. Not alleging it. No. The mob had already determined his guilt:
[A]round 10 p.m., he received an irate message on LinkedIn from someone he didn’t know. He brushed it off, thinking it was probably just spam. Then he got another. And another. The third message was particular strange, as it mentioned something about the cops coming to find him. Perplexed, he watched as the messages continued to pile up. They were all so similar: angry, threatening, accusatory. His profile views suddenly soared into the thousands.
He began to panic. He decided to check Twitter. Although he’d had an account for more than a decade, Weinberg didn’t use the social platform very much. He mostly followed mainstream news outlets, politicians from across the ideological spectrum, entrepreneurs, and financial analysts…
In his mentions, disaster was rapidly unfolding. People accused him of assaulting a child. Of being a racist. They shared a selfie he’d taken in sunglasses and his bike helmet and analyzed it alongside blurry images of another man in sunglasses and a bike helmet.
The other guy had been captured on video hitting children and ramming his bike into an adult after becoming enraged that they were posting fliers around the Capital Crescent Trail in support of George Floyd…
Unbeknownst to Weinberg, the police had already begun to crowd source for information in identifying the suspect:
We are seeking the public’s assistance in identifying the below individual in reference to an assault that took place this morning on the Capital Creacent trail. Please contact Det. Lopez at 301-929-2774 with any information. Pease reference case number 20001297. pic.twitter.com/EtC9Q0xBOp
— Park Police MC (@ParkPolice) June 2, 2020
(But the date was in error: ” “Correction, the incident occurred yesterday morning, 6/1/2020,” they wrote in a follow up tweet. As with most such clarifications, it had only a fraction of the reach: a mere 2,000 shares.”)
Weinberg, who hadn’t been aware of the story, and knew it wasn’t him in the photo, nonetheless found himself being threatened by individuals convinced of his guilt:
“You assaulted a little girl and other innocents because of your political beliefs,” one Twitter user messaged him. “Hey so are you the piece of shit who assaulted a child in Maryland today on the bicycle trail?” asked another. “Hey you racist bitch….we’re coming for you.” “You deserve to pay.” “Ur going down u disgusting piece of shit.” “Nice job assaulting a small child today. You need to be fired from your job immediately.” “YOU UGLY RACIST BITCH.”
And here is how his personal information was made public:
It was based on that initial, false information that Weinberg had become a suspect for the internet mob. To his surprise, the app that he used to record his regular rides from Bethesda into Georgetown via the Capital Crescent Trail shared that information publicly, not just with his network of friends and followers. Someone had located a record of his ride on the path on June 2, matched it to the location of the assault from the video, matched his profile picture — white guy, aviator-style sunglasses, helmet obscuring much of his head — to the man in the video, and shared the hunch publicly.
It took off. Weinberg didn’t know what “doxing” meant, but it was happening to him: Someone posted his address.
The next morning, Weinberg met with with Detective Lopez, who told him he was free to go, and that the police department would report that he was not a suspect.
Maryland attorney general Maryland Brian Frosh reached out to Weinberg, and apologized for the mess he helped create:
“I am sorry for what you are going through. Police have a suspect. Can I post something that would help?” Hours before Weinberg was falsely accused, Frosh had asked all of Twitter for help finding the man in the video. “If anyone can identify this man, please let me know,” he said, and nearly 50,000 people retweeted him.
Weinberg said of his experience:
“You may hear more from me in time as I reflect on this experience,” he tweeted. “For now I will say this. We must align in the fight for justice and equality — but not at the cost of due process and the right to privacy and safety.”
And the woman who originally tweeted Weinberg’s home address? She deleted the tweet with his address, and apologized on Twitter for “depriving someone of their own right to justice”. Sadly, less than a dozen people retweeted her apology, because the mob just isn’t interested in corrections or apologies. Mob mentality demands otherwise. They are only interested in going after individuals they *think* might be someone of interest to the police. But here’s my question: why not just call the detective’s number on the Twitter post, or the local police department, and leave a voice message, or direct message the detective on Twitter? Why not choose to be discreet about throwing around accusations that could endanger an individual who may not be guilty? How about even treating another individual with a presumed innocence, and let law enforcement do their job? While I absolutely understand the compelling need to see someone arrested for attacking a young woman, and that the circumstances surround the crime were intense, I cannot go along with a “they were just trying to do the right thing” excuse. These people had other options that were viable and would not endanger anyone by assigning guilt to a private citizen on Twitter. But this mob did not choose not to avail themselves of these options. And that was wrong.
What’s really sad is that there should have been hundreds upon hundreds of social media users posting public apologies to Peter Weinberg. His Twitter account should be blowing up with apologies. But we know that won’t happen.
–Dana
This is just hate of another color.
Dana (0feb77) — 6/8/2020 @ 4:39 pmSo, to sum up, an assault on a young woman nearly resulted in a mob lynching. Some things never change.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/8/2020 @ 5:11 pmAnd, forever, anyone who Googles Mr Weinberg will see a thousand hits on “Peter Weinberg, racist thug”
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/8/2020 @ 5:12 pmHe should have recourse against Twitter, Facebook, etc, to make them pull down all mention of his name in association with the incident.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/8/2020 @ 5:14 pmSadly, less than a dozen people retweeted her apology, because the mob just isn’t interested in corrections or apologies.
Maybe the mob thought that’s how you become a New York Daily News columnist and land a gig at Harvard.
beer ‘n pretzels (73a0f2) — 6/8/2020 @ 5:16 pmAlso, the police dept. posting the incorrect date certainly didn’t help matters either.
Dana (0feb77) — 6/8/2020 @ 5:18 pmIf you haven’t read it yet……..
https://www.amazon.com/Madness-Crowds-Gender-Race-Identity/dp/1635579988
harkin (d8e40a) — 6/8/2020 @ 5:24 pm_
being woke should get you 5 in a county jail
mg (8cbc69) — 6/8/2020 @ 5:52 pm@8 Having a hate-on for the first amendment today, mg?
Nic (896fdf) — 6/8/2020 @ 5:58 pmI know a little bit about Twitter mobs. This is going to happen a lot.
One good thing. If you can make it past the original Two Minute Hate, the mob will move on to another outrage.
None of this is good.
Simon Jester (18a399) — 6/8/2020 @ 6:23 pmSame thing happened in Reddit after the Boston Bombing.
https://www.businessinsider.com/reddit-falsely-accuses-sunil-tripathi-of-boston-bombing-2013-7
Davethulhu (2768d4) — 6/8/2020 @ 6:27 pmTwitter (and such) should have to take down all the offending tweets and give each poster a “time out” for violating community standards. Do that enough and the pain will be felt. Don’t do it and the bad behavior will continue.
Failing that, some enterprising lawyer is going to invent the “reverse class action libel suit” naming each poster and assessing a small amount each.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/8/2020 @ 6:28 pmThe first amendment does not protect libel.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/8/2020 @ 6:29 pmBy the way, this was fun.
https://retractionwatch.com/2020/06/05/following-outrage-chemistry-journal-makes-a-paper-decrying-diversity-efforts-disappear/
To quote the old Soviet joke, you may not be interested in the Revolution, but the Revolution is interested in you.
Simon Jester (18a399) — 6/8/2020 @ 6:29 pm“being woke should get you 5 in a county jail”
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/jun/05/spokane-family-accused-of-being-antifa-by-armed-lo/
Davethulhu (2768d4) — 6/8/2020 @ 6:29 pmI’d have to see the bumper stickers on that bus to be sure.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/8/2020 @ 6:47 pmInciting a riot isn’t covered.
NJRob (744c64) — 6/8/2020 @ 6:59 pmA high tech lynch mob. Pretty standard for those addicted to the adrenaline rush of showing how righteous they are and enjoying their 2 minutes of hate.
NJRob (744c64) — 6/8/2020 @ 7:00 pmA philosophical (or is it metaphysical) question: If a bunch of morons on social media say bad things about you, and you don’t have social media, have they made a sound?
nk (1d9030) — 6/8/2020 @ 7:05 pm@12-
Rip Murdock (f56c1e) — 6/8/2020 @ 7:09 pmIncluding Trump’s?
Davethulhu (2768d4) — 6/8/2020 @ 6:29 pm
If the campers had been accused of being right-wing extremists, and had their heads split open, it would’ve been compared to the D-Day invasion.
beer ‘n pretzels (09bd57) — 6/8/2020 @ 7:12 pm“If the campers had been accused of being right-wing extremists, and had their heads split open, it would’ve been compared to the D-Day invasion.”
You’re ridiculous.
Davethulhu (c36b3f) — 6/8/2020 @ 7:13 pm“You’re ridiculous“
__ _
https://mobile.twitter.com/MaraLiasson/status/1269390712291893248?s=20
harkin (9c4571) — 6/8/2020 @ 7:36 pm_
Oh well then, I guess it’s ok for a bunch of hillbillies to terrorize some random campers.
Davethulhu (c36b3f) — 6/8/2020 @ 7:47 pmWatching the Dems scramble to distance themselves quickly from the ‘Defund Police’ meme is a wonder to behold.
They’re even strategizing on how best politically to do it with members of the msm live on TV.
https://twitter.com/kjdrennen/status/1270065765501329408?s=20
Lol Booker claiming Republicans will ‘weaponize’ (add that to ‘pounce’, ‘seize’ and ‘attack’) the defund talk, just a couple weeks after the Dems and media poured gas on the angry and frustrated and then did nothing at all to stop the conflagration.
It’s always a hoot when Democrats complain that they are being smeared by being quoted verbatim.
harkin (9c4571) — 6/8/2020 @ 7:50 pm_
“ Oh well then, I guess they actually ARE comparing Antifa thugs to the D-Day invasion”
fyp
harkin (9c4571) — 6/8/2020 @ 7:52 pm_
“fyp”
It’s a non-sequitur harkin. The thread topic is online mobs. But you and b’n’p for some reason need to rush into the thread to defend the purity of right-wing mobs.
Davethulhu (c36b3f) — 6/8/2020 @ 7:55 pmRobert E. Lee IV: Robert E. Lee is my ancestor. Take down his statue, and let his cause be lost
In the small town where I live and grew up, the Lost Cause of the Confederacy didn’t need a special name — it was the education we all received. We were taught that during the Civil War, the Confederate States of America had just motive. Perhaps you’ve heard the mantra: “The Civil War was fought for states’ rights.” It was enshrined in monuments across the country after the war ended.
The catch is that there’s more to that sentence, something we southerners are never taught: The Civil War was fought for states’ rights to enslave African people in the United States of America.
Rip Murdock (f56c1e) — 6/8/2020 @ 7:59 pm…..
…..[O]nThursday, I was present with Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (D) and Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax (D) as they announced the intent of the commonwealth to remove the iconic statue of Lee on Richmond’s Monument Avenue.
……..
……[T]he statue of my ancestor has stood for years in Richmond as an idol of this white supremacist mind-set. The statue is a hollow reminder of a painful ideology and acts of oppression against black people. Taking it down will provide new opportunities for conversations, relationships and policy change.
……
The new cause of this country is about justice, equality, peace and concord. We can and must be different. Now is the time to make this new cause the hope of this upcoming generation of activists. We can give the gift of Southern hospitality and community instead of passing on a pseudo-historical and oppressive understanding of the world.
…….
Emphasis in the original.
They changed so many things, you don’;t know what worked.
One reason the homicide rate dropped could be people got taken to a hospital in time:
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/02/nyregion/camden-nj-police-shootings.html
One thing:
https://www.njtvonline.org/news/video/has-a-county-police-force-made-a-difference-in-camden
And this?
Did they give jobs to the drug dealers?
Sammy Finkelman (a248bd) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:08 pmBut you and b’n’p for some reason need to rush into the thread to defend the purity of right-wing mobs.
You read “Antifa are D-Day LARPers” and heard “right-wing mobs are pure”.
beer ‘n pretzels (09bd57) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:09 pm“You read “Antifa are D-Day LARPers” and heard “right-wing mobs are pure”.”
Why did you post “Antifa are D-Day LARPers” in response to my post? The campers weren’t antifa.
Davethulhu (c36b3f) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:10 pmShould be retitled when the angry “Left-wing mob comes for you”. There are SJW’s in action. And to describe this 60 y/o toothpick cyclist as “attacking” a “young woman” is absurd. He wanted to take their posters and yanked it out of her hands.
Saying he “attacked her” brings up images of a punch or a kick or something. Not an old geezer upset at some flyers.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:11 pmThe gaslighting by the Left and the Mainstream Media (is there a difference?) about Right and Left wing violence in the USA is getting ridiculous. We’ve just got through a week of violence, destruction, and looting lead by Antifa and Black Lives matter and all we get from the MSM is “Don’t call them violent” and “Antifa – who’s dat?”
But if one person harms a hair on a peaceful protester – its headlines and the KKK is on the march. Now we get the NYT and all the national media going on about a cyclist grabbing some left-wing posters on a trail in Maryland.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:15 pmNote that this wasn’t confined to a single town. There were a number of examples that happened over the weekend: https://www.voanews.com/usa/false-claims-antifa-protesters-plague-small-us-cities-0
Davethulhu (c36b3f) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:17 pmBTW, I assume the man who was mistaken for the cyclist, is a lefty. Which is why the SJW’s apologized for trying to destroy him. If he was innocent but a well-known Right-winger, there would have been NO regret, more of a “Well, we were wrong this time, but given your politics, you deserved it anyway”.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:17 pmGee, some people in Idaho started a rumor about Antifa and it wasn’t true. Wow, that certainly balances out 17 dead, hundreds of injuries, and a week of looting and destruction by Antifa.
BTW, AG Barr has labeled Antifa a terrorist organization, but the Media and Democrats just LOVE Antifa.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:19 pmYes, this is bad all around, Dana, but it’s a sign of the times.
What Brennan did was egregious, accosting teenagers for posting fliers, physically assaulting one and shoving his bike at another. What’s his problem? These kids weren’t committing any crime.
At least he didn’t threaten them with a buzzing chainsaw, like Peña did last week in downtown McAllen. That was scary. A group of young people, standing peacefully on a sidewalk, holding handmade cardboard signs, chased away by a raving lunatic with a chainsaw, cursing, using racial slurs, accusing them of being Antifa. Antifa, down here, are you kidding me?
These young people feel this is their moment, so they’re protesting in the hope of fringing about real reform to institutions raft with corruption, brutality, discrimination, and injustice.
They are not criminals. They’re frustrated youths. Because of the pandemic, schools are closed, so they were deprived of graduation, and businesses are closed, so they are deprived of summer employment. No wonder they’re acting out, but they aren’t rioting, looting, committing arson, or bombings. Anarchists do that. This is not 1968 all over again. These young people are simply trying to bring about real reform through peaceful protests, as is their right.
It should be noted that in the midst of this madness the police did their job. Peña and Brennan were both arrested.
What happened to Weinberg is unfortunate. Mistaken identity and false accusation is a terrible thing. But, to be honest, he brought it upon himself by posting vieos of him bicycling on social media. That’s the problem with exposing your life on social media–you can’t control what happens afterwards.
He received some insulting and threatening tweets and posts, but he was not physically assaulted, nor was his house vandalized. That might have happened, had the police not done their job.
Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:22 pmAfter the Boston Bombing situation, Reddit implemented some policy changes to prevent doxxing. Twitter ought to do the same. I don’t know how effective it would be though, since Twitter doesn’t have self moderating communities like Reddit does.
Davethulhu (c36b3f) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:23 pmWhy did you post “Antifa are D-Day LARPers” in response to my post? The campers weren’t antifa.
Who is defending the mob who attacked the campers? Name them.
Who is defending the Antifa mob? Plenty.
beer ‘n pretzels (09bd57) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:25 pm“Who is defending the mob who attacked the campers? Name them.”
Why did you post “Antifa are D-Day LARPers” in response to my post?
Davethulhu (c36b3f) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:28 pmThe type of garbage people who either incite or carry torches and pitchforks aren’t generally the apologizing type (See, Donald Trump, countless examples). I was surprised, for example, when Spike Lee apologized for directing vigilantes to the wrong address in search of George Zimmerman. Terrible people are capable of occasional acts of conscience, but it’s not the smart betting choice.
lurker (d8c5bc) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:30 pmAaron C. Davis
@byaaroncdavis
A week ago this evening, one of the most violent scenes ever caught on camera unfolded outside The White House. Thousands of mostly peaceful protesters were pushed, gassed and shot at. Please watch our reconstruction of a defining hour Trump’s presidency:
__ _
Imagine being a WaPo reporter and being unaware of the 9/11 attacks…..or the riots/looting/assault/arson all over TV at the same time.
harkin (9c4571) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:36 pm_
‘KKK President’ arrested for hitting protester with his truck
……..
Harry Rogers appeared in Henrico Court Monday morning where he agreed to receive a court-appointed attorney.
Rogers, 36, of Hanover, was formally charged with attempted malicious wounding (felony), destruction of property (felony), and assault and battery (misdemeanor) after police said he drove his pickup truck into a group of protesters Sunday in Lakeside.
…….
Several witnesses reported that a vehicle revved their engine and drove through the protesters occupying the roadway,” a Henrico Police spokesperson said of the incident on Lakeside Avenue near Vale Street.
……
In court Monday, the Henrico Commonwealth’s Attorney said Rogers told arresting officers he was the president of the Ku Klux Klan in Virginia and the highest-ranking member not imprisoned.
……
Eva Swanson said she watched as the truck drove onto the median and into the protesters.
“[The driver] revved his engine and sped up and I thought for sure people were going to die. People were screaming,” Swanson said. “I don’t know if we were in range of him hitting us, but we were afraid for our lives and fled out of the way.”
Rip Murdock (f56c1e) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:38 pm……..
I heard the engine rev up real loud behind us and it sounded as if it was coming in quickly so I shouted to my husband and son to get up on the sidewalk quick. Sure enough it came right up beside us quickly and seemed like it was trying to hit the crowd,” (Rachel) Kurtz explained.
……
“He kept revving his engine inching forward like he was trying to hit the people in front of him,” Kurtz recalled.
……
He was going the opposite direction, made a U-turn went through probably 10 vehicles to get to the protest,” the witness described. “He had to come in from behind the protesters to get to the protesters.”
……..
“ Terrible people are capable of occasional acts of conscience…”
__
Spike Lee apologized because the people who lived at the address he tweeted sued him.
IIRC he settled with them and got off relatively light.
_
harkin (9c4571) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:42 pm@13, @17 “being woke” in and of itself isn’t libel or causing a riot, it’s another viewpoint that isn’t yours or mine, but still just another viewpoint.
Nic (896fdf) — 6/8/2020 @ 8:43 pmI would call a bunch of dweebs on social media a Karen mob and not a lynch mob, but if “Karen” can be taken in vain I guess “lynch” can too.
nk (1d9030) — 6/8/2020 @ 9:23 pmThe police, prosecutors office, nor anyone else responsible for this doxxing will be held accountable. Now imagine how people would feel if the innocent man had been killed by the mob, or by police trying to arrest him.
Hoi Polloi (dc4124) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:58 amHoi Polloi (dc4124) — 6/9/2020 @ 4:58 am
Concerns about being killed by an angry mob come from a place of privilege.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:09 amVulnerable old people who are afraid of contracting angry mob should stay home where they will be safe and let the rest of us live our lives and not destroy the economy and take away our Constitutional rights.
nk (1d9030) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:28 amI’ve watched the “assault” on Twitter….and gosh….we see similar agressive belligerent behavior surrounding abortion protests all of the time….I’m not justifying it, Brennan was wrong for putting his hands on the woman….and for acting in a menacing fashion (bike shorts and all)….but does it really call for a police manhunt and internet firestorm? On the other hand, why was Brennan so bent out of shape over a stupid flyer that barely effected his life? Between pandemic quarantining and incendiary riots…people are wound too tight….and the media and social media will play it up….and our President will egg it all on. What a depressing time….
AJ_Liberty (0f85ca) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:37 amI’ll say this for the orange. He’s a genius at distraction. He’s got everybody talking about his Twitter, his photo ops in front of churches, and his pepper balls, and not the more than 113,000 Americans he’s let the coronavirus kill so far and the 1,000 a day that it will continue to kill. He should send Derek Chauvin a beautiful letter, actually.
nk (1d9030) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:37 amThere have been a few changes; his guy was white, This assault happened and wasn’t just an excuse to murder a black man, this lynching culminated in representational damages and not murder.
Time123 (6e0727) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:39 amWhen the felon who should be in prison comes for you:
“ ST. LOUIS – The man charged with the murder of retired St. Louis police Captain David Dorn was previously convicted in St. Louis County in 2014 but never served a day in prison.
Stephan Cannon, 24, was sentenced to seven years for felony robbery but the judge gave him a break. Cannon got probation under what’s called a suspended execution of sentence (SES). Court records show Cannon then violated probation—twice—and got two more breaks. He never went to prison.
Cannon now faces a first-degree murder charge for killing Dorn on June 2.”
https://fox2now.com/news/fox-files/suspect-accused-of-killing-retired-police-captain-once-got-7-year-prison-sentence-but-didnt-serve-one-day/amp/?taid=5edf108368fa860001afd65b&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20New%20Content%20(Feed)&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true
harkin (9c4571) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:39 am__ _
If someone knocked this creep on his ass for shoving a little girl and stealing her flyers I doubt a jury in the state would convict them.
Why are you minimizing his behavior? Are you really so focused on which political team they support is the only thing you care about?
Time123 (a7a01b) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:43 am“ There have been a few changes; his guy was white,”
Over 1,200 white people were lynched between the 1880s and 1960s.
harkin (9c4571) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:44 am_
The original lynchees of the original Lynch were Loyalists (on the side of the British for you in Rio Linda and counter-revolutionary elements for you in Portland) during the American Revolution. So what?
nk (1d9030) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:52 amTime123 (6e0727) — 6/9/2020 @ 5:39 am
It’s getting to were this is the only difference in the rhetoric between BLM and white supremacists.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:13 amI agree that this took off out of proportion to the event. I think that’s because the victim is very sympathetic; young, female and putting flyers up on a bike trail is about the least intrusive ‘protest’ I can imagine. The alleged perpetrator was a way too angry, middle aged white guy who has at least enough money to own a nice bike. It was such a clean contrast that people could really invest in the story and clicking ‘re-tweet’ made them feel like they were helping.
Time123 (6e0727) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:18 amthan you’re not paying very close attention.
Time123 (a7a01b) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:19 amSource? Would like to know more.
Time123 (6e0727) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:20 amTime123:
Here is a source that bears out Harkin’s claim:
https://www.naacp.org/history-of-lynchings/
Appalled (1a17de) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:35 amThank you. I’ll read it.
Time123 (6e0727) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:37 am60. Time123 (6e0727) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:20 am
As I thought, this is a commonly accepted fact:
https://www.naacp.org/history-of-lynchings
Sammy Finkelman (a248bd) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:41 amThis also doesn’t include the lynchings, mainly in the West, of Indians, Mexicans, Chinese, poor white ranchers…by mostly the rich white ranchers. The total Lynchings of everyone in the US easily tops 25,000, probably 50,000, specifically documented cases were mainly in the south, but the more rural/frontier it was, the less likely it is to have been documented. It is just past down in family lore and lost to legend.
The NAACP number is from confirmed cases, but murder of blacks during the Civil War, usually not lynching, just shooting, was more likely. Like the Fort Pillow massacre.
Just during the “Civil” War at least 50,000 black folks disappeared, some, hopefully most escaped and changed their names, but it’s most likely that thousands, maybe 10s of thousands were just killed outright.
Slavery was an evil that happened, the last living former slave, Sylvester Magee, didn’t die until 1971, so most of us where alive then. It’s just within the time frame that one of our grandparents owned Sylvester, for me, it’s great-grandparents, whose 2 slaves married some of their children and their descendants are my cousins today.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 7:18 amwere not where, but maybe were where
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/9/2020 @ 7:19 amTime123 (a7a01b) — 6/9/2020 @ 6:19 am
BLM pushes a theory of collective guilt and that all white people must atone. This is part of the definition of white privilege. You see this in the speeches given by white people apologizing for whatever they’ve done, or failed to do, i.e. being white. This is a racist position. It’s only different from white supremacists who ascribe baked in flaws to non-whites because it changed black to white. Part of the argument for systemic racism is the idea that systems built by white people are built for white people and will always bias against non-whites. This is in almost word for word agreement with white supremacists who claim that western civilization is made by white people for white people. BLM has a list of things white people should do to show respect for black people. This is different from white supremacists who claim non-whites should know their place, again, only by swapping black and white.
If white supremacists were directing the actions of BLM how would they be doing anything differently? Would anyone be surprised if tomorrow BLM demanded white people give up their seats on the bus to show
deference to black peoplesupport for black lives?I’ve said this before and it’s something you seem to dismiss; this isn’t me claiming this. I’m just pointing out what BLM itself says. BLM isn’t the only group making these claims but BLM is definitely embracing them and pushing racism.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2020 @ 7:46 amI don’t agree with you. This stuff ain’t geometry so you can certainly find some differences in what people mean when they talk about White Privilege and Racism. This definition seems to fit most of the examples I’ve seen.
White privilege (or white skin privilege) refers to societal privilege that benefits white people over non-white people in some societies, particularly if they are otherwise under the same social, political, or economic circumstances.
or
“having greater access to power and resources than people of color [in the same situation] do.”
Apologizing for a part of you that you can’t control seems silly to me.
I think there’s a difference between “I want white people to acknowledge that the system has benefited white people over black people” and “Non-Whites are Mud People and less human than white people.” The former is related to the history and the systems we have today and the later is intrinsic.
A key difference is conclusion. If I stipulate your premise there’s still a problem that the white supremacist conclusion is “So non-whites don’t deserve to be treated as equals.” and the BLM conclusion is “So the system needs to be modified to treat us as equals.”
I’m not trying to be dismissive. I’m sorry about that. But I think you’re misstating the central thesis of what the protesters are complaining about.
Time123 (a7a01b) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:10 amhttps://legalinsurrection.com/2020/06/cornell-students-demand-chemistry-prof-david-collum-be-fired-for-tweeting-that-buffalo-incident-was-not-police-brutality/
Mao’s Red Guard continues at Cornell. Struggle sessions in progress.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:20 amAnd it feels like you’re dismissing the thoughts of someone who believes BLM is attacking them for their existence, the “shame” of being white. Collective guilt is an evil belief and takes away a person’s individuality and just turns them into a widget.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:28 amhttps://hotair.com/archives/jazz-shaw/2020/06/09/georgia-protesters-track-police-homes-firebomb-vehicles/
It’s just property, right? No, it’s terrorism.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:30 amCollective guilt is also a crime against humanity under the Nuremberg Principals.
nk (1d9030) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:32 am*Principles*
nk (1d9030) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:34 amI understand people feel attacked. What I’m saying is that isn’t the central point of what’s going on. There’s a clear distinctions between “System disadvantages black people in ways it does not whites.” and “System disadvantages black people in ways it does not whites and white people should and admit that.” and “White people are all evil.”
Time123 (6e0727) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:46 amRiling up the mob:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1270333484528214018
It’s all BS, but when has that ever stopped him.
Davethulhu (954ff3) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:49 am“Over 1,200 white people were lynched between the 1880s and 1960s.”
– harkin
How many of them were lynched for being white?
Leviticus (3eb64b) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:50 amAnd there’s also a way of calling BS on this and saying the SYSTEM doesn’t discriminate against anyone. Instead it’s the choices people make that have the result.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:54 amAll of them. They were considered race traitors like the left considers Clarence Thomas and other black conservatives.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:55 amhttps://www.wave3.com/2020/06/08/gov-beshear-announces-plans-provide-percent-health-coverage-black-residents/
More racism.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:56 amhttps://dailycaller.com/2020/06/08/black-supremacy-tweet-terry-crews-backlash/
Terry Crews speaks the truth. Gets called names by black supremacists.
NJRob (4d595c) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:58 amTime123 (a7a01b) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:10 am
We are, as seems to be common, not talking about the same thing. You are talking about protestors. Specifically, you are talking about a limited set of protestors that fit your definition. I’m talking about BLM. All of the protestors aren’t BLM and I’m not claiming that you can’t find ones that match your description. But BLM is the organizing force behind them and we’re still having protests that devolve into riots, looting, etc.
This is not BLM’s conclusion. This might be your conclusion. It might be what you think BLM is saying and since BLM seems to be the most powerful force driving change at the moment you want to align with that. But BLM is saying that white people can’t treat others as equals and must be forced to. They want control. They want to be in charge and they’re not satisfied with the normal democratic process because that doesn’t give them the type of control they want.
There is too much to quote here but this hopefully anchors it. You’ve moved away from collective guilt which was the point of this part of my comment but we can talk about this too. You’ve stopped just short of explaining how privilege exists without some flaw in white people. How exactly does the system happen to benefit whites over non-whites? Is it an accident or did white people bake it in because they are racist? If the system is supposed to give everyone an equal chance as is claimed by whites why does it benefit primarily whites? Are white people lying and is that an inherent trait of white people? Are they stupid and just don’t know they’re doing this? Systemic racism is used to explain why a system can be run by non-whites for non-whites and still oppress non-whites, i.e. it is a system designed by whites. The BLM answer is white people are racists liars who know this is happening, know they benefit from it, and have no intention of changing anything unless forced to do so.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2020 @ 8:58 amFrosty, if you check the link in my post it provides one explanation to some of the questions you brought up about white privilege. There’s lots of resources out there on it.
Yes, I’m talking about what the protesters are saying right now. Once we throw out the fringe nut job and criminals there are still a LOT of people saying that same thing; that excessive force by the police is a big problem for poor blacks and that the system doesn’t bring justice for clearly unjust acts.
If that’s not who you’re talking about we’re probably talking past each other.
Can you point to what you’re using to understand what BLM is saying? Not trying to give you HW, but you and I are seeing it very differently.
Time123 (6e0727) — 6/9/2020 @ 10:08 amTime123 (6e0727) — 6/9/2020 @ 10:08 am
I’m listening to what they are saying and following it to its logical conclusion. They’ve stated they want a community-oversight board with control over whatever replaces the current police system. What do you think that means? For a city, the police are now a component of the city government which is itself a result of the community acting via a democratic process. So they don’t mean it in that context. They can already elect local officials so this isn’t a case of reforming the system by putting better people in charge. They want to get rid of police unions but that creates its own political issues.
Like I said, just listen to them. The problem, according to BLM, with current police oversight is that it’s dependent on a democratic process they don’t have enough control over. They want more control. They don’t say it like that because the problem with that is obvious. And there are media outlets doing their best to rework the PR on this. But if they want better laws why not push for better laws? If they want better police oversight why not elect better politicians? The same question a different way; who do you think will be elected to these oversight boards and why can’t they be elected to political positions now?
I did a not thorough search for what BLM is asking for and found some examples:
These are asks for more money and something we can vote on. Are we just trying to take advantage of Floyd’s death to get some pet projects through?
Either this is changing existing laws or this is treating people who break the law differently based on their community of color.
WTH? Why do I need to meet with someone who robbed me?
This doesn’t look like it but it’s a request for more money. These are also problematic for a variety of reasons.
I’m not opposed to some of this stuff personally but it all looks like things we can vote on. A council with direct authority over the police isn’t needed for any of these things. It’s desired because, like I said, the normal democratic process just isn’t working for BLM.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2020 @ 11:39 amTime123 (6e0727) — 6/9/2020 @ 10:08 am
For a more practical example, you can watch the video of the Minneapolis mayor being asked if he would abolish the police. CNN by the way reported this as him being booed for refusing to defund after they defined defund as reduce funding. I supposed we can interpret “we want equal treatment” as “we don’t want any police” but “no police” won’t produce “equal treatment”.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2020 @ 11:54 amFrosty, Thank you for taking the time to explain that. I haven’t looked at it in the way you have. I’m going to spend some time doing that and see if that changes my view of the situation.
Time123 (653992) — 6/9/2020 @ 12:19 pm