Patterico's Pontifications

5/29/2020

Ted Cruz Is So Far Gone

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



I can’t believe I once gave this guy money and supported him for President.

(I’d still support him over Donald Trump, btw.)

So the Twitter insanity is continuing. In what looks to me like a deliberate provocation of Twitter, President Donald J. Trump called for looters to be shot this morning:

Twitter left the tweet up but hid it behind this message:

Trump Tweet Violent

This approach is dopey, for reasons I have gone into before. One of the reasons it’s dopey is that they possible can’t apply this standard to everyone evenhandedly, which was illustrated when FCC Chair Ajit Pai posed a question to Twitter:

This strikes me as a perfectly legitimate question, although I don’t like seeing it posed by a government official who asserts authority over Twitter. And then Ted Cruz … escalated things quickly:

A … a what now?

The letter can be read here. It says Twitter violated the International Emergency Economic Powers Act by giving Twitter accounts to Iranian officials.

Probably treason too. Lock up Jack Dorsey for 20 years! (Mob in background: “You’re [expletive deleted] right!) The letter complains:

Khamenei and Zarif used their Twitter accounts to post anti-American disinformation and conspiracy theories, not authoritative health information.

The only disinformation and conspiracy theories we like are pro-American disinformation and conspiracy theories. That’s why we love Trump!

You see, Teddy is All Aboard this Josh Hawley style MAGAgoguing of social media, and is busy this morning trying unsuccessfully to convince actual constitutionalist Charles C.W. Cooke that Section 230 of the CDA requires neutrality (which, as I have explained repeatedly, it does not):

This country has gone insane.

101 Responses to “Ted Cruz Is So Far Gone”

  1. Twitter really thought it could apply their stated terms of service only in ways that they felt like and they really thought there wouldn’t be any legal pushback.

    Google really thought they could secretly delete and censor Chinese terms like ‘wu-mao’ without anyone calling them on it.

    “I have the FUNDAMENTAL FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT to take money from foreign countries to selectively enforce rules and procedures against Americans and rightists that I rarely if ever enforce against foreigners and leftists!”

    All of the companies that wasted our time and energy are about to have their much-deserved reckoning.

    Shooty Looty (fdf07f)

  2. “This country has gone insane.”

    Kinda sorta.

    A list of the buildings damaged, looted in Minneapolis and St. Paul

    Here are the reports of damage or looting that have come in since Wednesday evening. This story will be update as more reports come in:

    In Minneapolis:

    – Park-Nicollet Minneapolis Clinic: Property damage.
    – K-Mart Lake Street: Property damage.
    – Penzey’s Spices Uptown: Property damage, looting.
    – Walgreens Hennepin and 27th: Property damage.
    – Midori’s Floating World Cafe Lake Street: Fire damage.
    – GM Tobacco Lake and 27th: Fire damage.
    – McDonald’s Lake and 31st: Property damage.
    – Walgreens Central and Lowry in Northeast: Property damage.
    – Wells Fargo Lake Street: Fire and property damage.
    – Ladditude Tattoo Lake and 27th: Fire damage.
    – LV’s Barbershop Lake and 27th: Fire damage.
    – The Hub Bike Co-op Minnehaha and 30th: Property damage.
    – J-Klips Lake Street: Property damage.
    – 5 Guys Hennepin and 24th: Property damage.
    – Holiday Hennepin and 25th: Property damage.
    – Honda Town Lake and 43rd: Property damage.
    – Tires Plus Lake and 34th: Property damage.
    – Hennepin County Human Service Center: Property damage.
    – ICC Wireless Lake Street: Property damage.
    – Jackson Hewitt Tax Service: Property damage.
    – Little Caesars Lake Street: Fire and property damage.
    – Teppanyaki Grill Lake Street: Fire and property damage.
    – Home Choice Lake Street: Fire and property damage.
    – Dollar General Lake Street: Extensive fire damage.
    – Twin Lake Dental: Fire and property damage.
    – HD Laundry Lake Street: Fire and property damage.
    – Citi Trends Lake Street: Fire and property damage.
    – Total Wireless Lake Street: Fire and property damage.
    – Pineda Tacos Lake Street: Property damage.
    – Subway Lake Street: Property damage.
    – 7 Mile Fashion Express East Lake Street: Destroyed by fire
    – The Fremont Bar Uptown: Property damage, looting.
    – O’Reilly Auto Parts West Broadway: Extensive fire damage.
    – Broadway Liquor Outlet West Broadway: Property damage, looting.
    – Quality Tobacco Lake and 1st: Extensive fire damage.
    – Skol Liquor Store 27th Avenue: Property damage, looting.
    – Max-It Pawn Shop Cedar Avenue: Extensive fire damage.
    – Minnehaha Liquor Lake Street: Property damage, looting, extensive fire damage.
    – Hexagon Bar at E 26th and 27th: Extensive fire damage.
    – Target Lake Street: Looting, graffiti, property damage, fire damage.
    – Wendy’s Lake Street: Fire, destroyed.
    – Autozone Lake Street: Fire, destroyed.
    – Cub Foods Lake Street: Looting, property damage, fire damage.
    – Under construction affordable housing development at 26th and 29th: Fire, destroyed.
    – 7-Sigma building, 26th and 29th: Fire, extensive damage.
    – Minneapolis 3rd Police Precinct: Property damage, graffiti.
    – Dollar Tree off Lake Street: Property damage, looting.
    – Metro by T-Mobile Lake Street: Fire, extensive damage.
    – Hi Lake Liquor: Property damage, looting.
    – Speedway East Lake Street: Property damage.
    – East Lake Library: Windows smashed, graffiti.
    – Precision Tune Auto Care Lake Street: Property damage.
    – U.S. Bank Lake Street: Property damage, graffiti.
    – Dairy Queen East Lake Street: Property damage.
    – Papa Murphy’s Pizza East Lake Street: Property damage.
    – Planet Fitness on Lake: Property damage.
    – Domino’s Pizza 26th and 28th: Property damage.
    – Urban Forage Winery and Cider House, Lake and 29th: Property damage, looting.
    – Gandhi Mahal Restaurant, 27th and Lake: Window smashed.
    – Car-X Tire & Auto East Lake Street: Property damage, vehicle smashed through windows.
    – Frattelone’s Ace Hardware East Lake Street: Property damage.
    – MN Transitions Charter School: Property damage.
    – Laundro Max East Lake Street: Window smashed.
    – Soderberg’s Floral & Gift East Lake Street: Property damage.
    – East Lake Clinic: Property damage.
    – Seward Pharmacy: Window smashed, graffiti.
    – Electra Tune Auto Care on Lake St: Property damage, vehicle stolen.
    – Walgreens at 43rd and Chicago: Property damage, looting.
    – Elevated Beer Wine & Spirits, Hiawatha Ave: Property damage, looting.
    – Schooner’s Tavern, barbershop next door: Fire, property damage.
    – Seward Co-op, 28th and Franklin: Window smashed, attempted theft of ATM.
    – Midtown Global Market: Property damage, looting.
    – Briva Health Lake Street: Window smashed.
    – Foot Locker East Lake Street: Property damage, looting.
    – BMO Harris East Lake Street: Property damage.
    – TCF Bank at 38th and Minnehaha: Property damage.
    – Studiiyo23 Hennepin Avenue, Uptown: Property damage, looting.
    – DTLR, Broadway, North Minneapolis: Property damage, looting.
    – Uptown Pawn: Property damage, looting.
    – La Familia Skate Shop: Property damage.
    – Target Uptown: Property damage, looting.
    – Hamdi Restaurant, Midtown: Property damage, graffiti.
    – Hudson’s Hardware, East 42nd Street: Property damage and looting.
    – Birchwood Cafe, East 25th Street: Property damage.
    – CVS Uptown: Property damage, looting.
    – Timberland Uptown: Property damage, looting.
    – Sunnys Wigs 29th and Lyndale: Property damage.
    – Thurston Jewelers West Lake Street: Property damage.
    – Banadir Pharmacy West Lake Street: Property damage and looting
    – Sephora Uptown: Property damage.
    – Gamestop Uptown: Property damage, looting.
    – Indulge and Bloom, Uptown: Property damage.
    – H&M Uptown: Windows smashed.
    – Apple Store Uptown: Windows smashed., looting.
    – Urban Outfitters Uptown: Door window smashed.”

    https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-news/a-list-of-the-buildings-damaged-looted-in-minneapolis-riots?__twitter_impression=true

    I think says enough without listing the St Paul properties.
    _

    harkin (9c4571)

  3. Well, Steppey.

    Twitter really thought it could apply their stated terms of service only in ways that they felt like and they really thought there wouldn’t be any legal pushback.

    Can you point to some legal pushback? I can’t see any, there is a whine-fest from Trump, but nothing legal.

    Google really thought they could secretly delete and censor Chinese terms like ‘wu-mao’ without anyone calling them on it.

    You’re definition of secret must be different. If you would have said casual, or careless, maybe, but you didn’t, it wasn’t in the script.

    All of the companies that wasted our time and energy are about to have their much-deserved reckoning.

    That’s nicely vague, by who, how, where, when?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  4. For all the passion it has unleashed, President Trump’s executive order on section 230 of the Communications Decency Act is pretty modest in impact. It doesn’t do anything to undermine the part of section 230 that protects social media from liability for the things that its users say. That’s paragraph (1) of section 230(b), and the order practically ignores it.

    https://reason.com/2020/05/28/first-thoughts-on-the-section-230-executive-order/

    BuDuh (9e69a6)

  5. “I think says enough without listing the St Paul properties.”

    – George Floyd: murdered by the police

    Davethulhu (b6790a)

  6. To address Patterico’s post, from Cruz’s twitter:

    If you (3rd Party) write an op-ed in NYT & it’s defamatory, NYT can be sued.
    If you post identical defamatory op-ed on Twitter or FB, they can’t be sued—that’s sec 230.
    Congress did that bc they were “neutral.” Now, they censor.

    1) Someone posting something defamatory on Twitter or FB can be sued. It’s Twitter or FB themselves that can’t be sued.
    2) This is revisionist history, “Neutrality” had nothing to do with it. It’s not possible for Twitter or FB to exercise editorial reviews for all postings, whereas newspapers have complete editorial control over everything they publish.

    I’m pretty sure that Cruz know this, so why is he lying?

    Davethulhu (b6790a)

  7. This country has gone insane.

    Looks like I picked the wrong year to quit sniffing glue.

    Dave (1bb933)

  8. Be a teacher, Ted! Be a teacher!

    nk (1d9030)

  9. 1. So don’t use Twatter. Nobody compels you to use it. I don’t.

    Start a competitor. You’re free to do that with any social media outfit.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  10. The only disinformation and conspiracy theories we like are pro-American disinformation and conspiracy theories.

    Disinformation on social media from foreign sources was the face that launched a thousand investigations and conspiracy theories four years ago.

    It was “election meddling” then. Now, it’s “meh”.

    beer ‘n pretzels (6181e7)

  11. Ted Cruz is not charismatic but he used to be principled. Now he seems to think principles are overrated and being a bully is an acceptable substitute for charisma. Maybe they are for Republicans but I think Cruz missed his chance and, sadly, he knows it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  12. The country truly is insane with TDS sufferers leading the charge.

    David Longfellow (44fae2)

  13. I can tell you have CRAZY its gotten. Twitter can’t censor the President of the USA for saying “When the tootling starts, the shooting starts” -without people getting upset. Imagine that.

    Its an insane asylum! If only Hillary had won, and put two extreme liberals on the SCOTUS. Then, we’d have had sanity, by God.

    rcocean (846d30)

  14. When Ted Cruz hated Orange man, he was a man of principle and courage. But now that he likes Orange man, he’s a worthless coward and opportunist.

    Sad how Trump changes people.

    rcocean (846d30)

  15. “When the tootling starts, the shooting starts”

    That’s…like…out of Dr. Seuss, right…???

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  16. If only Hillary had won. You can always count on the D’s to protect Free Enterprise and the rights of private sector. And Twitter can count on Joe Biden – he’s always championed lesser Government.

    rcocean (846d30)

  17. It is sad, rcocean. Trump drags down everyone to his level.

    DRJ (15874d)

  18. Like the bully he is.

    DRJ (15874d)

  19. “That’s nicely vague, by who, how, where, when?”

    This is lawfare, not law.

    Twitter does not warn in advance when they capriciously ban conservatives, so neither they nor their agents shall receive advance warning when the government hammer falls.

    But do go on with your “I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death Jack Dorsey’s right to ban you for saying it” position, sounds popular, defensible, and long-lasting.

    After all, I didn’t go to war so that the freedoms we lost to giant multinational conglomerates operating above the law could be UNJUSTLY SEIZED BY THE GOVERNMENT

    Shooty Looty (16e4d7)

  20. @11: Sounds like Cruz is employing lawfare. That became synonymous with bullying as of like this morning.

    beer ‘n pretzels (adb87e)

  21. Bullies need people to be fearful so they will follow the bully. These riots help Trump convince people to be fearful.

    DRJ (15874d)

  22. United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet on Thursday condemned the killings of many unarmed African Americans at the hands of the police over the years. She said that US authorities must take serious action to stop such killings and to ensure that justice is done when they do occur.

    Thank God the UN is weighing in on George Floyd. Now, Justice will be done and peace maintained. Like every-time the UN gets involved.

    rcocean (846d30)

  23. Hopefully, a “protest” will break out in my neighborhood. WE need a new TV.

    rcocean (846d30)

  24. Cruz is being patronizing. (“You want a legal debate. Cool.”) Bullies use taunting to do that. Law is about reason, not taunting.

    DRJ (15874d)

  25. “…when the looting starts, the shooting starts.” DJT

    Who talks like that? A cavalier comment meant to foment trouble.

    noel (4d3313)

  26. When Ted Cruz hated Orange man, he was a man of principle and courage. But now that he likes Orange man, he’s a worthless coward and opportunist.
    .

    In fact, that’s a good description of Cruz.

    Kishnevi (1a844c)

  27. W/apologies to the great Tom Lehrer:

    ‘Gather ’round while I sing you of Canadian Cruz,
    A man whose allegiance is ruled by expedience;
    Call him unprincipled for changing his views,
    “Principles, schminzables” coos Canadian Cruz

    Don’t say that he’s hypocritical,
    Say rather that he’s quite political;
    “Today’s Donald tweet, by next week is old news!
    Memories are short,” coos Canadian Cruz

    Some have harsh words for his bait-and-switch ruse,
    But some say their attitude should be one of gratitude;
    Like the wife and the father; their honor abused;
    So easily betrayed by Canadian Cruz

    To remain a conservative “hero”;
    Just play fiddle with Emperor Nero;
    “In Texas,’oder’ Twitter, I’ll pluck as I choose,
    And I’ll pluck ‘ya again,” coos Canadian Cruz’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. Who talks like that? A cavalier comment meant to foment trouble.

    This phrase has history, specifically in 1967 by former Miami police chief Walter Headley.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  29. Ted Cruz is not charismatic but he used to be principled.

    I don’t remember Cruz as ever being principled. He was always a grasping, overly ambitious politician to me.
    I’ll also note his dead silence on Trump’s false accusation/insinuation that Scarborough murdered his aide, just four years after Trump falsely accused Cruz’s dad of assassinating JFK.

    Paul Montagu (e7d63b)

  30. Thank you for the post. I appreciate the info you’ve provided on this. About all I’ve got on this.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  31. Sad how Trump changes people.

    Does he change people, or were they already that way and were just unable to unleash that tendency in previous political climate? Cruz, etc., didn’t just become someone different because Trump came on the scene. Trump’s lack of character and integrity just gave him license to do so. It’s too easy to just simply blame Trump. Cruz is an adult and we should not blame another person for his transformation. He chose it, he owns it. Does Trump change people or bring out what lies beneath (be that authoritarian tendencies, dishonesty, whatever)? Further, these “changes” reveal the weak character that already dwelt within the man. If staying in Trump’s good graces and keeping one’s hand on the levers of power requires sacrificing integrity, more than Cruz have been willing to surrender.

    Dana (0feb77)

  32. Is NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC and Fox News evening news still banning the word “riot” and all it’s forms to accurately describe the looters and rioters. I’m also seeing a ton of white antifa types there taking advantage to pillage and break things.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8363407/Protesters-descend-streets-Minneapolis-second-night-death-George-Floyd.html

    NJRob (4d595c)

  33. Or maybe Cruz is still principled and it is others who have changed because he is trying to do what he thinks will lead to the best outcome for our nation.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  34. Orange Man and Republicans Bad, NJ Rob… get with the program!

    Embrace the Leftwing Suckfest.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  35. After RBG, Breyer and Thomas get replaced by young leftists, your faux principles and $6 will buy you a latte.

    beer ‘n pretzels (6181e7)

  36. Looks like I picked the wrong year to quit sniffing glue.

    The Road to Sobriety can be a sticky one…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  37. Or maybe Cruz is still principled and it is others who have changed because he is trying to do what he thinks will lead to the best outcome for our nation.

    NJRob (4d595c) — 5/29/2020 @ 11:16 am

    If you feel what he did here accomplishes that I’d like to understand your logic. I mean that sincerely. You understand the law in this area and I respect your opinion, even if I don’t always agree with it.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  38. “I don’t remember Cruz as ever being principled. He was always a grasping, overly ambitious politician”

    He certainly consistently chooses himself over the GOP. And right now with 90% of the GOP in TrumpLand….and seriously suffering persecution syndrome….choosing himself means not being antagonistic to Trump. Unfortunately, it also puts him in a tough-to-defend policy position here….and subtracts from his authenticity and reputation for shrewd analysis. The more and more I think about….I want to stay away from Congress critters for POTUS….and stick with governors. Congress is broke. State houses have to get things done….Ted’s becoming tiresome….

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  39. NJRob (4d595c) — 5/29/2020 @ 11:16 am

    Right, because Cruz didn’t change his stance toward Trump or his “principles” whatsoever during and after election (except he did).
    And regarding Trump’s tweet that he would start shooting black people who loot, Orin Kerr notes that Trump would be violating the Constitution.

    Trump doesn’t care at all about the Constitution, of course, especially when he’s trying to scare voters. But actually following a policy of “when the looting starts, the shooting starts” would violate the 4th Amendment, for starters. See Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985).

    More from Frum:

    The Supreme Court’s holding in the 1985 case sets forth a different standard:

    The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable. It is not better that all felony suspects die than that they escape. Where the suspect poses no immediate threat to the officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so. It is no doubt unfortunate when a suspect who is in sight escapes, but the fact that the police arrive a little late or are a little slower afoot does not always justify killing the suspect. A police officer may not seize an unarmed, non-dangerous suspect by shooting him dead. The Tennessee statute is unconstitutional insofar as it authorizes the use of deadly force against such fleeing suspects.

    That is the law of the land. The decision goes on to note that:

    where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force. Thus, if the suspect threatens the officer with a weapon or there is probable cause to believe that he has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm, deadly force may be used if necessary to prevent escape, and if, where feasible, some warning has been given.

    More succinctly: Cops can’t just shoot someone looting gadgets from a Target or whiskey from a liquor store.
    Trump swore to protect and defend the Constitution. He just violated that oath. When he wrote “when the looting starts, the shooting starts,” he implicitly urged law enforcement to adopt an approach that would transgress the Constitution, violate Fourth Amendment rights, and cause unlawful deaths. Rioting is abhorrent. Trump’s incendiary call for illegal acts is more likely to fuel than stop it––especially if any police act on his irresponsible words.

    Paul Montagu (e7d63b)

  40. These riots help Trump convince people to be fearful.

    DRJ (15874d) — 5/29/2020 @ 10:41 am

    Or:

    Check out this reporter getting caught playing gun shots at the protests.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/NFrechen/status/1266330105191817218

    Tough call.

    BuDuh (0b846c)

  41. Given the events of the last few days. we are starting to hear a lot of “By saying thus or so, Trump is violating the Constitution!” Montagu just did it. Our host’s initial post on the current Trump vs Twitter spat does it.

    The question I have is this — what’s the remedy when the President violates the Constitution? Is it just impeachment? Is there something else?

    Appalled (1a17de)

  42. “The question I have is this — what’s the remedy when the President violates the Constitution? Is it just impeachment? Is there something else?”

    Theoretically impeachment. Practically, there is no remedy.

    Davethulhu (b6790a)

  43. 41. Politicians have ensured that in their partisanship, the threat of impeachment of a sitting president is such weak sauce, it doesn’t matter anymore.

    Gryph (08c844)

  44. Politicians have ensured that in their partisanship, the threat of impeachment…

    I’m thinking that we are responsible.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  45. The question I have is this — what’s the remedy when the President violates the Constitution? Is it just impeachment? Is there something else?

    (1) Impeachment, if that violation rises to the level of a high crime or misdemeanor, or (2) losing in November, or (3) losing a court challenge or challenges. That’s pretty much it.

    Paul Montagu (e7d63b)

  46. Leadership in the age of Trump. Cruz is merely taking advantage of trolling as leadership.

    Trump just had a press conference during this pandemic and rioting in the US, so he definitely addressed those things…uh…nope.

    He did say that if China is no longer autonomous, we’ll not treat them as a separate economic zone.

    So, ignore the important thing, to talk about what could be a press release, if it actually goes into effect.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  47. 43. If by “we” you mean the braindeadwashed electorate, then yes, I’m inclined to agree. I accept no personal culpability for the situation we are in, as I have been railing against it for years.

    Gryph (08c844)

  48. 44. So in practice, nothing.

    Gryph (08c844)

  49. I also am deeply disappointed in Ted Cruz. I donated to his campaign and voted for him in the primaries, but that turned out to be money not well spent and a vote wasted.

    However, it’s not just Cruz. It’s the lot of them.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  50. 48. That’s okay, GG. You’ll get to try again in November. Good luck./

    Gryph (08c844)

  51. Actually he read a statement that whined about the WHO (he’s yanking their funding), whine about everyone before him being too soft on China (he forgot to mention his own soft talk about China), then sermonize on Hong Kong, and read off a list of executive actions. Then walk back inside.

    He did release a pair of tweets walking back the shooting-looting tweets.

    Looting leads to shooting, and that’s why a man was shot and killed in Minneapolis on Wednesday night – or look at what just happened in Louisville with 7 people shot. I don’t want this to happen, and that’s what the expression put out last night means….
    …It was spoken as a fact, not as a statement. It’s very simple, nobody should have any problem with this other than the haters, and those looking to cause trouble on social media. Honor the memory of George Floyd!

    Kishnevi (234bda)

  52. …It was spoken as a fact, not as a statement.

    What. An. Idiot.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  53. I repeat my argument that Cruz, like Sasse and others, are professional politicians in a Party system. Again, A PARTY SYSTEM. If that seems like yelling, it’s because people seem not to want to hear that.

    A so-called party member who constantly opposes the current leader chosen by a majority of that party’s voter is a pretty piss-poor party politician and will have his nose rubbed in that fact, by nearly everyone else in that party. Likewise, a member of the opposition party who supports ANY leader of the other party will be treated as badly, or worse, by his own party. Few Democrats praised Reagan and few Republicans oppose Trump.

    Cruz is picking and choosing his battles, as are people like Nikki Haley. They cannot oppose Trump and have a future in the GOP, just as Democrat Congressfolk cannot oppose Pelosi. After Trump is gone they may have a thing or two to say, but not until.

    Opposing a politician for the SIMPLE reason that they support a party leader that you abhor, demonstrates a terrible lack of understanding of party politics. You may oppose them for their individual politics, and you may oppose the entire party for supporting the jackass in charge, but to oppose a person because he supports his party isn’t reasonable.

    Want a different center-right party? Work for it or start another one.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  54. Bollocks, Kevin.

    You oppose BAD POLICY and BAD CONDUCT.

    Because it’s right to do.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  55. I see no problem with requiring that no communications company that has such an impact (and wields such a local monopoly) on society serve as a gatekeeper for information. If they don’t like some speech, they should feel free to offer better speech. Far worse things (e.g. the Equal Time Rule) have been found constitutional in the past.

    Twitter and Facebook have monopoly dominance of a sector of communication. There are more sectors that here used to be, but even when it was telephone, radio, television and newspapers, the government either regulated content of mandated that there be no filters. You can say ANYTHING on the telephone and the phone company cannot censor you (even now when they could). You can say anything in email now, too, and any restrictions are not content based.

    And I haven’t even mentioned Amazon Web Services, a company that has monopoly power over the entire Internet and has turned off sites for bad-speech.

    I disagree almost totally with the Westboro Baptist Church, but I defend utterly their right to spew their idiocies.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  56. Because it’s right to do.

    Another person not understanding the word “party.” There are reasons to dislike party politics, and this IS one of them. Many municipalities ban parties for this kind of reason. But within such a system, it is foolish, even disingenuous, to attack a party member for supporting their party.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  57. Suppose government had taken no action with respect to the creation of monopolies and Comcast owned 83% of all Internet and cable communications and then decreed that no ads for Democrats would be carried on their cables and proceeded to block countless left-of-center domains.

    Perhaps, in time, this would be corrected by the marketplace, but not quickly and might lead to a distortion of the public’s access to information. Why is government wrong to prevent this? What limit is there/should there be on content-free regulation?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  58. Twitter is immune from being sued for things that *third parties* say on its website; Twitter is not immune from being sued for things *Twitter* says.

    How far does their censorship of other’s speech have to go before what they allow becomes their speech?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  59. However, it’s not just Cruz. It’s the lot of them.

    Damn Republican Party! How dare they act like a Party?!?!11!!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  60. “Suppose government had taken no action with respect to the creation of monopolies and Comcast owned 83% of all Internet and cable communications and then decreed that no ads for Democrats would be carried on their cables and proceeded to block countless left-of-center domains.”

    You don’t need an imaginary example. Talk radio is dominated by a small number of companies running primarily conservative programs. There are occasional grumbles to restore the fairness doctrine, but nothing beyond that.

    You’re also exaggerating Twitter’s level of “censorship”.

    Davethulhu (b6790a)

  61. Oddly, Kevin, being a member of a party has never meant suspending your sense of right and wrong.

    Likewise, no party has ever…until very recently…demanded it’s members march in lock-step.

    So, yes. Damn the GOP for acting like the Deemocrats, and damn Cruz for becoming just another poltroon in the flock.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  62. 57. You hit on why I think Section 230 should be revisited. As things stand, it does not address your concerns at all.

    Gryph (08c844)

  63. Kevin is often confused about things he’s dead sure about.

    Having a really strong market position has pretty much nothing to do with “monopoly”.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  64. “ When the tootling starts, the shooting starts”

    – rcocean

    This got me so good. Still chuckling. Thank you for lightening my mood on an otherwise dark day.

    Leviticus (b3a900)

  65. The Republican party had the White House, the House of Representatives and the Senate. And what did they do with all that power and authority? Pass trillion dollar deficits, enact a fraudulent tax bill, and appoint a few judges?

    What happened to limited government, fiscal restraint? Oh, that’s right, all the principles Republicans have campaigned on for years went the way of all things when the RNC went all in for the “king of debt” Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Y987Uf1wY&list=RD11Y987Uf1wY&start_radio=1

    My biggest mistake was loving you too much
    And letting you know
    Now you got me where you want me
    And you won’t let me go

    If my heart was made of glass
    Then surely you could see
    How much heartache and misery
    You’ve been causing me

    But I try to do my best
    You know, I try to do my best

    Don’t do it
    Don’t you break my heart
    Please, don’t do it, don’t you break my heart

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  66. Cruz had principles, even as a politician. He risked losing Iowa because of his position on ethanol subsidies. But I think he decided not enough voters care about principles for it to matter, and it seems he is right.

    DRJ (15874d)

  67. Want a different center-right party? Work for it or start another one.

    I agree. I’m working for it by opposing Trump’s boneheaded decisions and chuckleheaded acts. We just have different ideas on what party loyalty really is and, IMO, party loyalty has been wrongly displaced with loyalty to one terrible human being.

    Paul Montagu (e7d63b)

  68. Cruz used to stand up to Party leaders, but there is no point to that in today’s GOP or in either Party. That will change when Trump or Biden loses. There will be a stampede by politicians in the losing Party to show they were never part of the pack.

    DRJ (15874d)

  69. Kevin M,

    Putting Party first gave us California. How does that help anyone but the Party?

    DRJ (15874d)

  70. We will never forget the politicians who kissed the ring of Trump after he is out of office. Their self-serving behavior which enabled and supported a corrupt leader cannot be erased, no matter how much they try to convince us that they had no choice in the matter.

    Dana (0feb77)

  71. We will never forget the Romney tribalists who helped flip the Supreme Court after Trump loses to Biden.

    beer ‘n pretzels (d19622)

  72. 69. And your high dudgeon won’t matter one bit; the system will ensure that the next guy to replace Trump will be just as bad policy-wise, even if he is more charismatic and likeable as a person.

    Gryph (08c844)

  73. So decrees Gryph The Great(est), who has been demonstrated to be wrong about so much, so often (but never in his own little mind-play).

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  74. We will never forget the Romney tribalists who helped flip the Supreme Court after Trump loses to Biden.

    beer ‘n pretzels (d19622) — 5/29/2020 @ 2:48 pm

    Nah. Nevertrumpers warned you guys not to nominate Trump because it would lead to a massive shift left after four years of scandal and incompetence. Trump’s 70 days of inaction in the corona virus killed at least tens of thousands of Americans who would otherwise be alive. He defends his tweets in a matter of days or hours, but ignored real work for months.

    The country reeling in opposition to Trump is not the fault of people who told you to pick a less dangerous ‘republican’ among your options. At a certain point it stopped being about picking Team R no matter what, and it became simply about refusing to be a partisan hack in league with evil.

    How far does their censorship of other’s speech have to go before what they allow becomes their speech?

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 5/29/2020 @ 1:22 pm

    I’ve seen some moderation that is so severe that it’s basically just another expression of opinion (usually it comes with actual speech justifying itself). I don’t know how to articulate a rule that captures the issue, but I suggest that if people can criticize the censorship on the platform, and describe it clearly, and also paraphrase the argument being censored, that it’s not reaching the point you’re asking about. In other words, Twitter isn’t there.

    Dustin (d59cff)

  75. Nevertrumpers warned you guys not to nominate Trump

    Yeah.

    I didn’t nominate Trump. But, it’s very important for you to assume that I did, because otherwise your point makes no sense.

    beer ‘n pretzels (0b864e)

  76. If you feel what he did here accomplishes that I’d like to understand your logic. I mean that sincerely. You understand the law in this area and I respect your opinion, even if I don’t always agree with it.

    Time123 (af99e9) — 5/29/2020 @ 11:30 am

    Read what Kevin posted later on. As long as we have parties, we must work within them. Senator Cruz has argued before the Supreme Court and won. He understands what he is saying and the limitations within.

    From a personal standpoint, I’m tired of social media putting their hands on the scale of public discourse to influence society and elections. If they wish to do so, they don’t deserve the protections of an unbiased organization.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  77. I didn’t nominate Trump. But, it’s very important for you to assume that I did, because otherwise your point makes no sense.

    beer ‘n pretzels (0b864e) — 5/29/2020 @ 4:45 pm

    Yawn. Romney was right to vote to remove Trump from office, which would have avoided this binary choice trap that Trump supporters seem to insist we focus on.

    I can’t distinguish you from other Trump fans because you all say the same stuff, so no it’s not that important to me that you’re innocent of the horrible sin of nominating Trump. What’s important is that even now, when we’ve seen the constant awful conduct, your problem is with Trump’s critics, and you refuse to take responsibility for yourself (much like your man Trump can’t).

    Biden’s still your fault buddy.

    Dustin (d59cff)

  78. 72. I guess if you’re saying I’ve been wrong about so much (some of which I’ve corrected myself on, but I digress), then you’re never wrong yourself, are you? SMDH

    Gryph (08c844)

  79. Talk radio is dominated by a small number of companies running primarily conservative programs.

    But there is no “network effect” and no real barrier to entry. Twitter and Facebook are not easily opposed, and one company that tried was warned by Amazon Web Services that they’d lose their hosting if they continued to allow things that Twitter would not.

    IF the entire web is based on “conditions of service” that are either viewpont-based, or enforced as if they were viewpoint-based then there’s a problem.

    The first amendment is a dead letter if government allows its glove to do what its hand is forbidden.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  80. Putting Party first gave us California. How does that help anyone but the Party?

    How is that? The people who refused to vote for Whitman and other party moderates were NOT putting party first, they were putting their narccisstic personal opinions first. And the same for the centerish people who walked when less moderate candidates were nominated.

    If everyone bails on candidates that don’t toe THEIR line, there is no party. And THAT is what happened in California.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  81. We will never forget the Romney tribalists who helped flip the Supreme Court after Trump loses to Biden.

    Irony is not dead.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  82. And I confess, I did not vote for Trump. And I did that in an attempt to cut Trumpism off at the knees, just as I voted against him in the primary and gave money to two of his opponents. Mea culpa. And for every wingnut who points at me, I can point back at them for not standing up for Romney or McCain.

    BUT! I am not a professional politician. I do not make my living, even my career, in the world’s second-oldest profession. Cruz does. Sasse does. To them, this is a tribulation they must somehow endure, and part of that endurance is speaking up when called upon.

    Nikki Haley does this best; she seems only to take up Trump’s side when he’s obviously right. As a result, she seldom speaks.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  83. I am not willing to concede the 1st Amendment to a handful of corporations and their opaque censorship regimes. Because that is what we are doing. In the end, we;’ll be like Britain, with an Official Secrets Act and Hate Speech rules, relegating freedom of speech to unamplified rhetoric at Speaker’s Corner (assuming that there are no rules there as well).

    If freedom of speech does not penetrate those who control the means of speaking, then there is no freedom of speech.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  84. Off-topic: Do you note that no politician is denouncing the “Floyd” protesters who are not wearing masks?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  85. A picture is worth a thousand words: here’s one worth more:

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/05/30/02/28995140-8371389-image-a-97_1590801906745.jpg

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  86. @79 Ultimately a politician’s job is not to support the party, it’s to do things that are supportive of their district. If you stop doing that, your district won’t vote for you and you’ll lose. If, for example you vote for a “Tax reduction” bill that raises taxes on your constituents and they don’t even get anything out of it, they are bound to be a bit ticked at you, esp when your main draw is “lower taxes for my district.”

    Nic (896fdf)

  87. Upon reflection, Pat’s constant inveighing against ‘mafia’s’ also seems ill-considered, politically:

    The Militarized Modern Police failed in the ONE use case that justifies their existence. They’re Robocop when they’re kicking your ass for opening a bag of candy on the metro, but they’re Barney Fife swimming in sea of submissive urination when there’s an actual threat like widespread rioting instigated by out-of-state elements.

    In such an environment, ‘mafia’s’ of people willing to protect each other from both the criminals ‘via shared armed protection’ and the cops ‘via shared ‘we didn’t see nothin’ testimony’ to protect against the inevitable anarchic prosecution’ is not only expected, but indeed, necessary.

    By all means keep complaining pointlessly about them, though smart people would recognize that the Mafia known as ‘antifa’ has indeed been the ones mainly responsible for the larger amount of Minnesota destruction, and now that the polling on the popularity of the rioting has been released, they’re all pivoting to IT WAS WHITE SUPREMACISTS ALL ALONG.

    I expect them to start blaming Russians before long. Fake and weak mafias are always blamed by the real ones.

    Robo-Mafia (00e23d)

  88. The whole point of Section 230 is that websites could moderate (edit) their website (against certain kinds of content) without becoming responsible for everything anybody posted on it.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  89. 11. DRJ (15874d) — 5/29/2020 @ 10:24 am

    Ted Cruz is not charismatic but he used to be principled.

    I don;t believe he ever was. His attempting to stop Obamacare on the grounds that if it was allowed to proceed it would be irreversible, was pure grandstanding and made no sense.

    His career just simply hadn’t gone on long enough for it to become apparent to you that he wasn’t principled.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  90. How long have I known, followed, and watched Cruz, Sammy? (Answer: You don’t know.)

    DRJ (15874d)

  91. Compare Ted Cruz vs Mike Lee.

    DRJ (15874d)

  92. I concede that Cruz’s conservative principles may have resulted from his decision that he would win elections in Texas by appearing to be the most principled conservative. In that sense, he was acting based on personal interest, not dedication to principles. But the appearance would be someone who believed in principles.

    DRJ (15874d)

  93. “…when the looting starts, the shooting starts.” DJT

    noel (4d3313) — 5/29/2020 @ 10:45 am

    Who talks like that? A cavalier comment meant to foment troublw.

    It was first said in 1967 by Miami police Chief Walter Headley in testimony in a hearing about rime in Miami. He probably meant shooting by store owners, although usually they don’t need to fire their guns, at least directly at people, to stop the looting.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1266434155543506945

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    ·
    May 29

    Looting leads to shooting, and that’s why a man was shot and killed in Minneapolis on Wednesday night – or look at what just happened in Louisville with 7 people shot. I don’t want this to happen, and that’s what the expression put out last night means….

    —————

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    ·
    May 29

    ….It was spoken as a fact, not as a statement. It’s very simple, nobody should have any problem with this other than the haters, and those looking to cause trouble on social media. Honor the memory of George Floyd!

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  94. But I think Cruz was a real principled conservative who believed what he said. As we get older and are responsible for families and have many people who depend on us for jobs, taking principled stands gets harder. I think that has happened to Cruz and John Roberts. I understand it but it is disappointing. Courage isn’t just for the young but it looks different with age.

    DRJ (15874d)

  95. 59, Davethulhu (b6790a) — 5/29/2020 @ 1:32 pm

    Talk radio is dominated by a small number of companies running primarily conservative programs.

    Yes, and talk radio shows that tend to repeat the same talking points, but there is NPR, which has a different bias.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  96. Cruz risked a lot of his (or his wife;s) money to win an election in 2012.

    After that he was more or less financially secure.

    Sammy Finkelman (fd3539)

  97. Sammy, does it interest you to consider other points of view or do they seem dull or annoying?

    DRJ (15874d)

  98. For instance, does it interest you that Cruz was making $1M a year as a lawyer with a big firm — and he could still be doing it because he was good and there aren’t many lawyers who do what he did — before he ran for the Senate?

    DRJ (15874d)

  99. We will never forget the Romney tribalists who helped flip the Supreme Court after Trump loses to Biden.

    beer ‘n pretzels (d19622) — 5/29/2020 @ 2:48 pm

    Nah. Nevertrumpers warned you guys not to nominate Trump because it would lead to a massive shift left after four years of scandal and incompetence.

    This exchange between beer ‘n pretzels and Dustin is precisely the sort of fight I described in this post, in which I said we could look forward to exactly these sorts of recriminations for years. If beer ‘n pretzels plans to blame conservative anti-Trumpers for Biden’s judges, I assume he is fine with my blaming him for Trump’s tweets, corruption, and other bad qualities.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  100. Compare Ted Cruz vs Mike Lee.

    Mike Lee lost me with his stance on impeachment, but it’s nice to see he has retained some of his principles.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  101. … I assume he is fine with my blaming him for Trump’s tweets, corruption, and other bad qualities.

    Frankly, most Trump supporters are probably fine with that since those things don’t bother them now. What they would object to is if you say their willingness to accept those things is why Trump may lose to Biden. In other words, it will be Trump’s supporters’ fault if Trump loses because they demanded so little and he delivered so little.

    DRJ (15874d)


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