President Trump: Injections, Light, Disinfectants, And The Whole Ball of Wax
[guest post by Dana]
I am not going to do a big post on Dr. Trump and his comments about disinfectants, because honsetly, I lack the energy. He is just exhausting. But I am going post the relevant information for you to discuss it here.
From the press briefing yesterday:
Here is the full transcript of the press conference. Here is the relevant portion:
Bill Bryan: (28:34)
For example, increasing the temperature and humidity of potentially contaminated indoor spaces appears to reduce the stability of the virus, and extra care may be warranted for dry environments that do not have exposure to solar light. We’re also testing disinfectants readily available. We’ve tested bleach, we’ve tested isopropyl alcohol on the virus specifically in saliva or in respiratory fluids and I can tell you that bleach will kill the virus in five minutes. Isopropyl alcohol will kill the virus in 30 seconds and that’s with no manipulation, no rubbing. Just bring it on and leaving it go. You rub it and it goes away even faster. We’re also looking at other disinfectants, specifically looking at the COVID-19 virus in saliva. This is not the end of our work. As we continue to characterize this virus and integrate our findings into practical applications to mitigate exposure and transmission. I would like to thank the president, thank the vice president for their ongoing support and leadership to the department and for their work in addressing this pandemic. I would also like to thank the scientists not only in S and T and the NBAC, but to the larger scientific and R and D community. Thank you very much.Donald Trump: (29:46)
A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you’re going to test that too. Sounds interesting, right? And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful. Steve, please.
Today the President claims that he was being sarcastic with his comments made yesterday:
President Trump on Friday said he was being sarcastic when he suggested multiple times a day earlier that scientists should consider exposing the body to light, heat and disinfectants as a potential treatment for coronavirus.
“I was asking a question sarcastically to reporters like you just to see what would happen,” Trump told reporters at an Oval Office bill signing.
Here's a mashup of Trump claiming today he was just asking "a very sarcastic question to the reporters in the room" when he mused about disinfectant injections as a possible coronavirus miracle cure, followed by the original clip showing beyond a doubt that he was not doing that. pic.twitter.com/wby4ucd59Q
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) April 24, 2020
I’m going to throw this in here too, because Dr. Birx’s expression is just priceless, and I totally relate to it, and I’m not even on the Coronavirus Task Force:
Here is Dr. Birx's reaction when President Trump asks his science advisor to study using UV light on the human body and injecting disinfectant to fight the coronavirus. pic.twitter.com/MVno5X7JMA
— Daniel Lewis (@Daniel_Lewis3) April 24, 2020
(h/t Col. Klink for alerting us Trump’s comments yesterday.)
–Dana
If you can find a better video clip (and it can be embedded), let me know. I went with this one because it was the only one that I was able to embed.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/24/2020 @ 10:48 amYou’d think that if you lied as often as Trump, you’d be better at it.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:05 amBirx is saying, “No. He’s not really going there… My gawd, how can I spin this into something that isn’t fatal? And by “fatal” I mean kills people?”
Poor woman…
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:12 amH.L Mencken wrote a column almost 100 years ago exactly that started like this…
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:15 amKudos to Dr. Birx for not doing an eyeroll or facepalm, just a deep exhale and a look of disappointment.
Paul Montagu (6418de) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:15 amI’d love to be fly on the wall when Birx and Fauci are having a private conversation and the topic of their idiot boss comes up.
What is the problem? Trump is suggesting things. Brainstorming. Throwing out ideas. He says “I’m not a doctor. What do you think?” That’s what we want Presidents to do with Experts. Dr. Birx said she’d never heard of that. And that was that. The idea that any of the characters are this thread talking about eye-rolls and facepalms watched this in real time is absurd.
BTW, Red State has a great article up on the HCQ study just done by the VA. I was shocked at it. The press is even stupider and more dishonest than even I believed. They are either incapable of reporting a medical study accurately, or they’re so left-wing and biased, they’re willing to lie. Or maybe both. Unlike the liberal/left I want HCQ to work. And I’m hoping the medicos can prove it scientifically. The last thing I want is for a drug that could have worked, being not given because of shoddy studies and dishonest reporting.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:22 amAs usual, Trump would have been best served by shutting his mouth. What the other guy was talking about was perfectly reasonable, if a bit boring. Had Trump just shut up, he would not have looked like a fool.
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:23 amNew slogan for the Dems
Biden 2020 He won’t inject you with bleach.
Seriously though, I think people tell Trump things and he isn’t really listening or he doesn’t really understand. Later he starts rambling about what he thinks they said with his usual level of bluster and insecure overcompensation and here we are. I’ve seen lots of people try to explain what he really meant, but this is what he said. He didn’t seem to be the least bit sarcastic in his actual delivery, just confused. But his supporters will forgive him if it’s part of him being mean to ppl they don’t like.
Time123 (cd2ff4) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:24 amBecause there are stupid questions, this was a stupid question, the answer was known, do what he said will kill you, no research needed, children know this. There is no charitable way to view the stupidity of his, and your, response.
Moronic, stupid, idiotic, dangerous.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:25 amWhat is the problem? Trump is suggesting things. Brainstorming. Throwing out ideas. He says “I’m not a doctor. What do you think?” That’s what we want Presidents to do with Experts.
Had he done that in a closed meeting with the experts, I would agree with you. Not at a press conference. Brainstorming wild ideas can have value, but not when announced to the public by the president of the US.
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:25 amIf these are not grounds for impeachment on (take your pick) incompetence, mental instability, unfitness for office, maladministration or failure to lead in a crisis, I don’t know what is.
Pence should call the cabinet into session for an emergency vote.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:25 amTrump isn’t a professional politician and he refuses to play defense. As a result he’s willing to brainstorm in front of reporters and ask the experts if this or that could work. Of course, they turn around and lie and misrepresent what he says. But then they do that anyway. You don’t get 92% negative coverage for 4 years JUST because you’re giving the hostile MSM “ammunition”. As shown with Trump-Russia, Charlottsville, etc. they’ll lie about Trump.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:26 amWe cross posted. Thank you for proving my point about what his supporters will accept. Look, why not just go with “He was speaking off the cuff and that part was probably garbled.”? That would at least make sense.
Time123 (cd2ff4) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:27 amBrainstorming.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:27 amNope. Disagree. I watched real-time and saw nothing wrong with it. In any case, if it was so terrible why didn’t the MSM and the twitter lefties just report accurately what Trump said? Instead they have to lie and twist it.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:28 amhow much study do you think we need to do on injecting people with disinfectants?
Have you considered eating dog poop? Might work.
How about essential oils? Do you know they won’t cure you? Maybe try.
What if you put a finger in each nostril and blow really hard? Maybe that will cure you?
I’m not a Doctor but someone should look into this.
Time123 (cd2ff4) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:30 amThanks for the dumb teenage snark. Got a point, is that best you can do? Seriously, that remark has been made a million times on the internet. It has Gamma written all over it, and is incredibly lazy.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:30 amWhat part of Dana’s post wasn’t accurate?
Time123 (cd2ff4) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:30 amOn 2nd thought, who cares? I gotta better things to do.
rcocean (1a839e) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:31 amHe became one as of January 2017. If he wants to look like a moron with his public “brainstorming” session, then people may just note that he’s a moron.
Paul Montagu (6418de) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:31 amYou asked for a better video clip. I’m on my phone, so I can’t tell how well it will embed, but try this one…
https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=911391672711240&_rdr
Glenn (a56320) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:32 amThank you, by your words I’m assuming that you mean he can’t do the professional job of managing the office that he is attached to. You know, The President of the United States.
If he doesn’t know that injecting disinfectants will kill you, what’s wrong with his brain? He’s barely a toddler.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:33 amBrainstorming is designed to produce ideas that lead to solutions, but Trump says he was being sarcastic which is designed to mock or convey contempt. In this context, they are opposites because one is positive and the other is a derogatory negative. Now Trump claims he was being sarcastic regarding his own Administration’s efforts to combat a pandemic, which makes no sense. What this shows is that Trump is willing to use contempt to put others down and elevate himself, to the point that he is willing to direct it against the media and his own people. He will sell out his Administration’s credibility to make himself look good in this moment.
Even rcocean realizes this situation requires a need to be positive so he tried to spin this story in a positive light, but Trump can’t see beyond his personal need to make himself look or feel better.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:50 amBreaking-
Navy leaders recommend reinstating the Roosevelt captain fired over a virus warning
Capt. Brett E. Crozier should be restored to command of the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt, the Navy’s top officials recommended on Friday.
But Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper, who was briefed on the recommendations, has asked for more time to consider whether he will sign off on the reinstatement of the captain of the nuclear-powered carrier.
Mr. Esper received the recommendation that Captain Crozier be reinstated from the chief of Naval Operations, Admiral Michael M. Gilday, and the acting Navy Secretary, James McPherson on Friday. Defense Department officials said earlier that they expected to announce the results of the Navy’s investigation into the matter on Friday afternoon.
Mr. Esper’s decision to hold up the investigation has surprised Navy officials, who believed that the defense secretary would leave the process in the hands of the military chain of command
RipMurdock (e81e20) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:01 pmThe truth is, this was a stream of consciousness moment for Trump, and I doubt even he meant to take his musings seriously.
But, the problem with that is that a a press conference is not the time for musings. Certainly not by POTUS.
And, it shows the guy has no edit function on his mouth. As if we did not already know that.
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:02 pmThe problem is this was a stream of consciousness moment for Trump, and it shows how unstable and not genius his mind is.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:04 pmI submit that keeps Birx and Fauci up at night as much as the pandemic.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:08 pmOn 2nd thought, who cares? I gotta better things to do.
Do them outside, better for you…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:13 pmHe’s a confident, coddled, moron. He’s always the dumbest in the room, and he always thinks he’s the smartest, and has no ability to recognize his limitations. Like ol’ Freddie boy always told him what a smart boy he is…he was not.
Pence and the cabinet must convene to invoke the 25th amendment immediately.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:13 pmTrump isn’t a professional politician and he refuses to play defense.
T-rump has been a professional liar, cheat, and fraud for decades. He refuses to do ANYTHING that does not polish his “brand”. He’s the penultimate professional pol.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:14 pmAfter weeks of a pandemic that is dominating his Presidency and 24/7 access to some of the world’s best infectious disease doctors, Trump still knows very little about medicine, disease, or public health. He can’t act like he was musing in a curious way because he does not have a curious mind.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:16 pmAbsolutely, Haiku. It is a beautiful day here and defending Trump on this topic is a waste of time.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:18 pmScott Adams
✔
@ScottAdamsSays
There’s a massive IQ test on the Internet today. If you think the president was asking Dr. Birx about injecting bleach or isopropyl alcohol into coronavirus patients — because it sounded that way to you — you failed the test. https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/status/1253639070837694464 …
Scott Adams
✔
@ScottAdamsSays
Real News: @realDonaldTrump speculated about far-UV light catheter technology that was recently in the news, and apparently Dr. Birx was not familiar with it: https://youtu.be/RZHQbKe9TtI
Fake News: Trump asked Dr. Birx about injecting disinfectants into #coronavirus patients.
6,409
5:41 AM – Apr 24, 2020
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Scott Adams
✔
@ScottAdamsSays
We all fall for fake news when it sounds at least a little bit plausible. But if you believe @realDonaldTrump asked Dr. Birx her opinion on mainlining bleach and isopropyl alcohol, you really need to work on your gullibility
9,545
8:36 AM – Apr 24, 2020
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.
Svetlana
@RealSLokhova
I am old enough to remember Trump was accused of making people drink fish tank cleaner. Now it’s Lysol.
Do the media really believe their audience to be that stupid?
2,290
Jake (4c234f) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:22 pm8:44 AM – Apr 24, 2020
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What’s so unfortunate is the valuable time and energy that Fauci, Birx and others have to expend cleaning up these messes.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:23 pmScott Adams and Jake fail today’s IQ and gullibility tests!
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:25 pmExactly.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:28 pmAlso unfortunate, there will likely be true believers who will buy into his suggestions, and may even harm themselves as a result.
I’ve repeatedly said that, what the President of the United States says, matters. More than anyone else, it matters. His platform is like no other, and to see him abuse it in this way is just shameful. Every time he opens his mouth, he should have already been prepped about text, parameters, and direction. This is the problem with him freestyling, and saying whatever comes into his brain. It’s dangerous. But of course, that he “speaks his mind” is also what put him into office in the first place.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:32 pmBTW, how did the buffoon think we could get LIGHT inside the body? Tiny little UV lamps? That’s even battier than Clorox.
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:43 pmTrump has a fundamental misunderstanding about disinfectants, a misunderstanding he has probably had since he was a small child. For maybe 65 years.
He thinks disinfectants like Clorox and Lysol and isopropyl alcohol (called rubbing alcohol) kill “germs.”
They don’t kill germs.
They kill all living cells, and destroy and degrade complicated organic compounds, like viruses.
Now outside the body it doesn’t matter.
You may want to kill everything.
(I won’t get into the more minor misconception that all bacteria are bad. Even the not so good is god for your immune system)
And nobody bothered to explain this to the public. They just wanted to say how stupid or wrong ingesting those chemicals is.
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:46 pm@38
There are catheters that emit UV light used for multitude of things, mainly to fight infections in heart transplants and dialysis patients.
whembly (fd57f6) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:51 pmScott Adams likes to present routine spin as if it were some sort of brilliant insight. He tries to market it by implying that agreeing with him makes you so smart you can see behind the curtain.
Time123 (cd2ff4) — 4/24/2020 @ 12:57 pmYeah, it really seems like this could be put to bed by admitting this in some way. But they’re not capable of doing that because of Trump’s character flaws. I wonder if this will turn into a re-do of the hurricane thing where they keep trying to ‘prove’ they were right and story keeps going.
When Obama got the number of states wrong they had a spox come out and admitted he mispoke, made an excuse and people mostly moved on.
Time123 (ea2b98) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:00 pmThey also use white and UV light in bronchoscopies (in the lungs) to detect cancer, stop bleeding, and for other purposes. I don’t know whether it might have some use in stopping the lung problems caused by COVID 19.
But I do know that questions about injecting disinfectants are dangerous and they are what I object to regarding Trump’s comments.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:01 pmTrump enjoys being the best at everything (like Obama), including thinking he knows better than doctors. He probably realizes now that hydroxychloroquine and zpak aren’t “the biggest game changers in the history of medicine” so he is moving on to other medical insights. He just can’t step back and let experts brief the media and the public. If he weren’t the President, it would be sad to see how desperate he is to get attention and be noticed. But he is President and it makes him look weak and insecure, which is what he is but not what he wants us to see.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:10 pmThinking Trump knows even a child’s level of information is silly. He didn’t know the slightest thing about anything said yesterday, it’s obvious, he’s clueless, he was clueless. There is no way to magically find a clue in incoherent stupidity.
Again, there is actual video of it. There is only evidence of mental deficiency.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:12 pmMust watch
Some sound advice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLVxx_lBLU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb6j7o1pLBw
Jake (4c234f) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:14 pmWill disinfectants change their warning labels? They probably already warn that it is not for internal use. Now they may add that they should not be injected. Lawyers aren’t to blame for every “silly” warning label.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:14 pmPretty funny here, posters all think they’re smarter than Trump
Made it in Real estate
Made it in TV
President of United States.
Before this virus he made America great. May have accomplished more than any other President ever in 3 1/2 yrs.
Joe (4c234f) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:17 pmAn aide should immediately hide all he Sharpies.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:17 pmhttps://twitter.com/sarahcpr/status/1253474772702429189?s=20
Trump’s own words
Victor (4355e3) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:19 pm“Pretty funny here, posters all think they’re smarter than Trump”
Have you had your daily bleach injection yet?
Davethulhu (ba84db) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:19 pmIt didn’t help that the head of DHS Science and Technology, Bill Bryan, implied that bleach, or rubbing alcohol, or other disinfectants could be used safely inside the body, for he said:
Of course, he was talking about what people expectorated.
The saliva is what people spit out (incidentally if they can determine how long it takes to kill it in saliva, that means you could develop a infection test that used saliva)
And the respiratory fluids is not what a ventilator may reach, but mucus!
Trump thought his idea was obvious:
as Trump, having spent so much time in the last several weeks discussing coronavirus, and what to do about it, now considered himself to be.
This was probably something some doctor brought up, either with Trump, or somebody he talked to, but he brought it up in a very theoretical way
whwn hw mwntioned it earlier, more privately
so far, so good. Ultraviolet rays aren’t so good for you, but the same can be said of radiation, and there;s ways of aiming it at a tumor.
This is actually a thing. Trump discussed it with Bill Bryan.
Trump is impressed with his own insights.
And then he took his leap:
showing a fundamental misunderstanding of disinfectants.
By saying injection, Trump was thinking the disinfectant could just randomly circulate throughout the body, until it encountered something bad, which it would destroy.
But their destructiveness is not targeted.
Now there is something that is. Super-targeted in fact. Anti-coronavirus antibodies.
Why didn’t someone bring him to the subject of antibodies?
A. Because they’re not interested in educating Donald Trump. And they’re probably not good teachers.
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:19 pmJoe aka Jake,
Pick one name and stick with it. And when it comes to injecting disinfectants, apparently almost everyone here is smarter than Trump.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:20 pmI am not going to do a big post on Dr. Trump and his comments about disinfectants, because honse[s]tly, I lack the energy.
OMG Dana, if he overheard you saying your energy was low, he might just suggest you’d pep up by gargling with 10-30 motor oil– and using it would help the petroleum glut at the same time. 😉
Guess Americans should stop shampooing with Lysol and spritzing fantastik on salads. 😉
You’d think he’d just introduce the medical an nursing pros and let them do the doctor talk.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:24 pm“Remember when there was journalism…?
Earlier today Brandon Morse reported on how the press has been jumping on the accusation that President Trump actually suggested that people intravenously any form of caustic cleanser into their bloodstream in an effort toward off the coronavirus. That anyone would even entertain this as a reality is ridiculous. That seasoned journalists would go to the length of reporting this as factual is remarkable. It is also plain stupid, and yet this is the state of out media these days.”
https://www.redstate.com/bradslager/2020/04/24/825055/
Jake (4c234f) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:25 pmA reporter (the first one to ask a question( asked Cuomo at his briefing today about Trump’s comments, looking for a controversy. Cumo ignored the part about disinfectant and just said that ultraviolet light was not in his training etc.
Then a doctor nearby reminded the audience that these chemicals are the same ones you have thess warnings about keeping out of the reach of children.
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:26 pmEVERYONE is smarter than Trump. Randomly choose any person on any street in any town at any age; smarter, and would be a better president.
Pence and the cabinet need to grow a…spine.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:27 pm48.Pretty funny here, posters all think they’re smarter than Trump
Joe, if he spitballed about crunching up light bulbs and adding ’em to your meals to make you brighter, would you do it?
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:28 pmSammy,
Do you think you might have had Covid when you were sick recently?
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:29 pm@ rcocean, #6:
After reading this comment, the only conclusion I can come to that is remotely charitable towards you is that you’re at work right now…that you get paid to post outrageous, rosiest-tinted-glasses comments supporting Trump on websites that generally oppose him. Then at least your livelihood demands, and determines the nature of, your hot takes. Which are perilously predictable, by the way…I knew it was you by the middle of the second sentence, and I was just skimming.
So, in the spirit of being charitable, I’m just going to go ahead and congratulate you on securing a career that allows you to work from home. And if your company is hiring anytime soon, and the hours and pay are decent, I wouldn’t mind a referral.
Demosthenes (0d7362) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:29 pmJoe is Jake, DCSCA.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:29 pmYou people hate Trump more than you love humanity.
Jake (4c234f) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:30 pmThe makers of Lysol were compelled to release a warning statement:
Dana (0feb77) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:33 pmJoe/Jake,
Use one handle, or both of your names are going into moderation.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:34 pmEarlier today Brandon Morse…tried to defend Trump’s idiotic statements. But what do you expect, he’s been hyping HCQ for a month, like a sycophant. People like him, and you, get people killed, because trying to hype the moronic, defend the stupid, allows that moron’s words to linger.
Trump, you, Morse, should only be mocked, derided, for your idiocy, that this requires 1 second of effort for any actual person in the pandemic fight to respond to the idiot talk of Trump, whether it be injecting disinfectants, introducing “very powerful light” into the skin, or using some random drug as a miracle, it costs lives.
Stupid, moronic, idiotic…
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:35 pmColonel Klink @4. H. L. Mencken apparently disagrees with Alexander Hamilton.
Of course they were talking about different situations. Alexander Hamilton was thinking of having Electors who made decisions. So that’s actually a small group of people, and H.L. Mencken thought “before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through” because he might also have a strong personality.
Hamilton also thought the electors would come e from so widely different places that they couldn’t be assembled for a specific purpose.
Anyway the process of electing a president is no good. People actually know the candidates aren’t so good.
I think doing away with campaign finance reform would help a lot.
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:35 pmYou must be new to the company. Take a lesson from rcocean. He can troll so much better than you.
And for the record, rcocean, I would be so much better than this. Just let me know when you want samples.
Demosthenes (0d7362) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:35 pmDoes Lysol hate Trump or love humans, Joe/Jake?
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:36 pmTrump is going to be mad about this. I see military action in the near future.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:39 pmJake @33-
Scott Adams’ tweets assumes facts not in evidence. There is no proof that Trump is award of any of the medical uses of light. His well known lack of interest in reading complex documents (such as medical journals) indicate that he was being perfectly honest in his comments. In the video there is no indication in the tone of his voice that he was being sarcastic.
ALso, don’t get your medical advice from celebrities, presidents, or cartoonists.
RipMurdock (e81e20) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:39 pmMilitary action is only for parades, DRJ. Big, shiny parades.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:40 pm23. Brainstorming is designed to produce ideas that lead to solutions, but Trump says he was being sarcastic which is designed to mock or convey contempt.
DRJ… Ugh. If somebody around him jests that Magnum357 is a sure cure-all-fer-what-ails-ya in one of those ‘BS’ sessions, he might just suggest it from the podium not realizing what he was saying.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:41 pmHow can anyone actually believe that he was “brainstorming”? It’s not possible.
25th amendment.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:47 pmHe would prefer a parade but that didn’t work out, Dana, plus there is still social distancing. More of a distraction like bombing another deserving Iranian general.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:47 pmThe US President is standing in front of some of the nation’s top doctors and, instead of letting them talk, he is throwing out crazy ideas that a twelve-year-old wouldn’t suggest. During a pandemic.
Same guy has a 94% approval rating among Republicans. I wonder what that will be… if he loses.
noel (4d3313) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:49 pmBad news for never trumpers. Tara Reade’s mother called the larry king show in august 1993 complaining about groper joe biden sexually assaulting her daughter! Source: The Intercept.
asset (33a096) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:52 pmSo is Uncle Joe’s groping worse than Trump’s groping?
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:54 pmFake News: Trump Didn’t Tell People to Inject Bleach or Lysol Into Their Veins to Fight Coronavirus
https://pjmedia.com/trending/fake-news-trump-didnt-tell-people-to-inject-bleach-or-lysol-into-their-veins-to-fight-coronavirus/
Jake (4c234f) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:54 pmIs groping good or bad, you can’t have it both ways.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:54 pmIncredible the lengths his supporters will go to defend, or spin for Trump. No matter how it might discredit themselves:
Here is the transcript:
OMG.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:55 pmJake, he did, he’s a moron. Why are you surprise that a moron said something stupid? He says an idiotic thing…whenever he talks, this is a bit MORE moronic than usual, but his high bar is stupid, the just sets a new low bar.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:56 pmDRJ and Dana,
Everyone but Fake News knows Jake is short for Joe.
lurker (d8c5bc) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:58 pmJake @ 78,
The video is posted above. The relevant portion of the transcript is posted too. Also, the link to the full transcript is there for you as well. You might want to read/watch each, and then draw your own conclusions.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:58 pmIt’s deja vu all over again… https://twitter.com/i/status/1253119049174790149
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:59 pmAmerica was great before this virus and before 1/20/2017, even when Obama was president. The Trump era won’t make America greater, but his run as commander-in-chief will test how great this nation is.
Paul Montagu (6a1715) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:59 pmlurker,
Regardless, the rules set by our host require every commenter to use only one name. Jake or Joe, not both.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:59 pmUsing “Joe” here is not jake.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:07 pm“It’s going to disappear”. How about a little bleach science? Maybe hydroxychloroquine? Telling people to “liberate” their states from social distancing.
Most President’s try to think things through before addressing the world.
noel (4d3313) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:09 pm@85. ‘America was great before this virus and before 1/20/2017, even when Obama was president.’
“What America needs are leaders to match the greatness of her people.”- Richard Nixon, August, 1968.
That went well, didn’t it:
“I shall resign the Presidency effective at noon tomorrow.” – Richard Nixon, August, 1974
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:13 pmHow is that bad news for me? Being against Trump doesn’t mean I’m for Biden. They’re both dirty, poorly-spoken septuagenarian scoundrels with a history of disreputable (and in some cases, criminal) behavior. What a choice I have.
Seriously, rcocean, if this guy works for the same company you do, I can do a better job than this…indeed, bigly better. Much subtler, too. I await your call.
Demosthenes (0d7362) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:15 pmLawyers aren’t to blame for every “silly” warning label.
No, probably only 98% of them, the rotters…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:16 pm59. DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:29 pm
Yes. And it’s not completely over yet. It never got too bad, unlike cases I read about, and it improves very slowly, with slight ups and downs.
The antibody test that New York State developed – it wasn’t commercial – that says that 21% of residents of New York City shopping at supermarkets have (caveat: some) anti-Covid antibodies tends to confirm this liklihood.
New York State is continuing to run do this sampling. And the was tilted to give false negatives rather than false positives, and limited to people who were going outside – I still have not gone outside since March 22 and March 25, and I have gotten five deliveries of food and supplies sent by my brother.
I got a call from an old friend of mine on Monday, April 14, just checking up on me because shewas worried/wondering about ne, and she had acaese that sounded very similar to mine. She’s a nurse, woth three jobs, ne being at an outside dialysis clinic. They lost patiensts and doctors and nurse got sick. Most of the people there are Chinese. She was in auarantine or something like that for 12 days and then they told her to come back, aybe after she didn;t test positive.
She also trains or hwlps people with at home peritoneal dialysis, some of them she was in contact with only remotely, and none of them got sick.
Her father, who is 90 I believe whom she had just moved to anew apartment, had problems – anytime he ate he had to make a bowel movement. I don’t really want to call back and get an update.
You know, I don’t think the danger is from a fleeting contact with someone in a big crowd. It’ll probably be a small dose of virus, so low it may amount almost to a vaccine. (not guaranteed of course) The danger comes from repeated exposures in a confined space where the same people are day after day, so the virus can spread from person to person till it infects half and some get extremely serious or fatal cases.
Like in a cruise ship, or a nursing home or long term care facility, or a meatpackng plant, or a dialysis clinic, or a jail or a courtroom (maybe it’s from different people there)
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:17 pmTrump: “{something stupid}”
Davethulhu (ba84db) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:19 pmTrump whisperers: “Actually, Trump meant {some obscure fact/some tortured reasoning}”
Trump: “{I was joking], but actually {something stupid}”
They’re both dirty, poorly-spoken septuagenarian scoundrels with a history of disreputable (and in some cases, criminal) behavior. What a choice I have.
Make that WE have. Yes, once again, we have a choice between constipation and diarrhea.
I have zero confidence that if Biden were president, we would not have the same level of absurdity, just of a different flavor.
I think we are going to have to come back to what we had the last time — who are the advisors that are going to be around the president. And in that, I think Trump wins. I would rather have Mike Pence as # 2 than Stacey Abrams, for example.
But, yes, our system of picking presidents is broken. There are much better choices there in both parties, but they have no chance, and many of them will not even bother running.
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:23 pmBored Lawyer,
One would also have to take into account how many of Trump’s advisers have lasted before he’s gotten angry at them for disagreeing with him, or that they didn’t defend him enough, etc.?
Dana (0feb77) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:26 pmDana, I was joking.
lurker (d8c5bc) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:29 pm23. DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:50 am
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:30 pmCNN is partnering w/Sesame Street to do the ‘ABCs of Covid-19 for Kids’ for broadcast.
Apparently Mr. Trump has already been getting his Covid-19 ABCs from Fox’s ‘Itchy & Scratchy Show.’
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:36 pm75. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 1:47 pm
Because he said so a the time.
.
That’s not brainstormng?
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:38 pm80.
I certainly wouldn’t recommend the internal ingestion of a disinfectant.
But he doesn’t say why!
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:40 pm43.They also use white and UV light in bronchoscopies (in the lungs) to detect cancer, stop bleeding, and for other purposes. I don’t know whether it might have some use in stopping the lung problems caused by COVID 19.
You’ll find a lot of them in Halloween decorations– and groovy head shops, too. 😉
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:42 pmOh sure. Now he is saying that he was just being caustic.
noel (4d3313) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:43 pmWell, only for an idiot. Children have been taught that this is fatal, for 70 years. Children.
You seem to be saying that he didn’t know this. Is that supposed to make anyone thing he’s not an idiot?
There are stupid questions, his was, your’s is.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:44 pmBrainstorming toxic solutions to the American people on national TV?
PJMedia and Scott Adams would not be ok with it if Obama recommended people take penicillin. But the deceptions they undertake to keep Trump fanatics happy will never end. There is nothing Trump could do they wouldn’t defend. We saw this kind of crap with Imperial Japan. Weak men worship fake gods.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:45 pmPushermanTrumpermanHe’s your mama, he’s your daddy
He’s that insect up your alley
In your thoughts, in your deeds
If it’s Trump, then it leads
You know him, he’s your friend
Your main boy, thick or thin
he’s your Trumperman
he’s your Trumperman
Ha ha
It ain’t clean, news machine
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:46 pmLosin’ jobs, super lean
Questions suck, what the fu*k?
Tell some lies, make some bucks
Chewin’ pillows in the night
Lindell sez, “hey, alright!!!”
he’s your Trumperman
he’s your Trumperman
he’s your Trumperman
Keep going nuts, it suits you.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:47 pmTrump doesn’t understand what sarcasm means, so he’s between 6 and 10 years old.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:48 pmLong after this is over, long after Trump is either in prison or passes away, history will remember all the cowards. Ted Cruz, Mike Pence, Jeff Sessions, Nikki Haley, Mitch McConnell. Everyone who let this nonsense continue. They will also remember Trump’s fanatical supporters who insist the real problem was the guys who love this country too much to stay with their political party, the people who told the truth that’s plain as day about Trump’s character.
The second it becomes safe, Haiku will be the first to mock Trump like he never supported him in the first place. Like you do with Romney.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:54 pm@ 95 One would also have to take into account how many of Trump’s advisers have lasted before he’s gotten angry at them for disagreeing with him, or that they didn’t defend him enough, etc.?
Of course you do. But still, on balance, I tend to agree more with the crew Trump would bring in than the crew Biden would bring in.
And not everyone Trump brought in was fired. Betsy DeVos wasn’t, and I sure prefer her over whomever Biden would put there.
But, as I said, the choices are between bad and worse.
Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:56 pmHow Trump’s COVID-19 Failure Betrayed Our Military and Veterans
The failure of Donald Trump’s administration to heed warnings and prepare for the arrival of COVID-19 have been well documented.
Less well understood is the extent to which Trump also failed to protect both America’s armed forces and veterans, too.
The novel coronavirus is currently spreading among active duty military with more than 3,000 positive cases documented. Meanwhile our veterans are being put in vulnerable positions in facilities susceptible to spread for the virus as their healthcare providers have been forced to ration personal protective equipment at the same time that staffing shortfalls and vacancies threaten the ability to serve increasing numbers of infected patients and staff. As of April 17, the VA system had 5,468 documented positive cases and 339 veterans had officially died from COVID-19 in addition to 10 VA healthcare workers.
The same nightmare the rest of the country has experienced over the last month is unfolding within the VA and the Department of Defense. And the causes are the same, too: a lack of preparation, equipment, and supplies.
…….
“There are hundreds of thousands of vets who should have been tested and should be being tested now. People are dying because of it,” (Rep. Seth) Moulton said, adding that Trump “certainly has the blood of fellow Americans on his hands because of his total failure as commander-in-chief.”
And Moulton was not the first person to warn the Trump administration. The New York Times reports that on January 28, Dr. Carter Mecher, a senior medical advisor at the VA, wrote to public health experts both in government and at various universities warning that “any way you cut it, this is going to be bad.” Mercher added that “the projected size of the outbreak already seems hard to believe.”
The list of government officials on Mercher’s email list included Dr. Jerome Adams, the U.S. surgeon general, Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and Dr. Robert R. Redfield, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and others at the Health and Human Services Department, the Homeland Security Department, and the State Department.
The administration’s failure to heed these warnings is threefold:
The spread of the virus among the armed forces contributed to a decline in military readiness.
The spread within the VA broke the nation’s compact with our veterans.
The VA’s “fourth mission” is a federal charge to step in and serve as the nation’s backstop when civilian hospitals are overwhelmed in a crisis. That mission too, has been a failure.
Who is at fault for these mission failures? The commander-in-chief.
……
Today, four aircraft carriers have positive cases of COVID-19. A sailor aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt has died and 660 of his shipmates tested positive for the virus. Submarines are a critical concern, because isolation and distancing are impossible on those vessels. And so is the fact that social distancing is slowing both recruiting and training, meaning that maintaining a proper posture of force disposition is going to become difficult in the medium-term future.
Meanwhile active-duty military leaders who already struggle with two competing goals—protecting the health of U.S. troops while keeping detailed information about force disposition away from America’s adversaries—have learned that communicating honestly, let alone sounding alarms, is now a danger to their careers.
…….
The Wall Street Journal reports that, contrary to the initial assumption that sailors aboard the Roosevelt were infected during a port visit in Vietnam, the outbreak likely resulted from the ship’s flight operations. (The first cases were within the carrier’s air wing.) This is worrisome because it suggests, as the Journal puts it, that “the U.S. Navy’s decision to curtail port visits may not alone stop coronavirus infections.”
……….
On April 18, when asked about the high rate of asymptomatic transmission in positive cases among the crew of the Roosevelt (350 of 660 cases), Esper sounded as though he was unfamiliar with this key fact: “That has revealed a new dynamic of this virus, it can be carried by normal, healthy people who have no idea whatsoever that they’re carrying it. We’re learning a lesson there and making sure we communicate that to our broader force.”
………
Following repeated denials throughout March and April, VA Secretary Robert Wilkie and his top officials conceded last Friday they have been rationing PPE. The reversal came only after numerous reports from military publications and veterans’ advocates such as Paul Rieckhoff.
…….
Wilkie, who is part of the White House Coronavirus Task Force, had spoken only twice at the president’s daily briefings and had given interviews only to friendly conservative media outlets before speaking with the Wall Street Journal on April 17.
In the interview Wilkie used a number of formulations which seemed designed not to communicate directly and transparently with veterans and the public, but to not upset President Trump. For instance, he said “We don’t have the supplies that we would have in an optimal situation, we have the supplies that we need as the CDC prescribes.”
…….
And it wasn’t just veterans the general public the VA was trying to dupe. It was also withholding information from Congress.
Beginning on March 18, the House Veterans Affairs Committee started sending requests to the VA asking for documents relating to supplies of PPE. The committee sent 17 of these without receiving any answer. The VA responded only to the 18th request, on April 17. And then only after the committee accused the White House of muzzling the department.
……..
If it looks like the VA is covering for Trump, well, yes, they were. And not for the first time.
The VA had actually expressed its urgent concern about the virus to the House committee early on in the outbreak, staff for committee members said. Why didn’t these VA officials make their concern public? Because they didn’t want to be at odds with President Trump while he was downplaying the threat.
…..
But these early warnings did not translate into an adequate response from the DoD or the VA. These two departments—which comprise the two largest budgets in the federal government—could have brought enormous resources to bear in a national effort to fight the coronavirus. Instead they sat on the sidelines so as not to embarrass the president, who was committed to selling the country a series of untruths about the outbreak.
Today the VA is struggling to keep infections down at the 170 medical centers and 1,074 clinics it operates. It also runs some nursing homes while certifying other state facilities to care for our nation’s veterans.
One of those facilities—Soldiers Home in Holyoke, Massachusetts—has already lost 57 veterans to COVID-19.
……. “He (Trump) shirks responsibility rather than accept it, he hoards credit rather than praise his troops, he cares about his own image rather than the success of the mission,” Moulton said. “It’s literally the opposite of everything we learn in military training.”
RipMurdock (e81e20) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:57 pm>>>>>>>>
OT: Questions for attorneys on this forum (and Pat too!)… is this kosher?
New Flynn filing – Supplemental Motion to Dismiss
There was a “side deal to not prosecute Flynn Jr.” that was kept secret from Mike Flynn to avoid disclosure requirements.
https://t.co/IBos3aYQS5?amp=1
I saw this on wiki:
Giglio v. United States. Prosecution’s failure to inform the jury that a witness had been promised not to be prosecuted in exchange for his testimony was a failure to fulfill the duty to present all material evidence to the jury, and constituted a violation of due process.
Am I reading this wrong? Why is there an outrage about this? Shouldn’t such agreements simply be between the prosecution and defendant? Why is it required for the court (Judge/Juries) to know about this? Is this to prevent bad-faith abuses?
whembly (c30c83) — 4/24/2020 @ 3:01 pmYou are so heroic, Dustin. And full of schiff.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/24/2020 @ 3:02 pm…oooh. It’s Powell’s arguing that:
Yeah… that seems pretty bad.
whembly (c30c83) — 4/24/2020 @ 3:04 pm103. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 2:44 pm
For seventy years? Every single person?
If everybody understood it was poison nobody would ever take it.
Sure they are told not to use it, bt that’s because it belongs to their parents, and it’s obvously not nourishing.
It can on;y be explained by assuming he didn’t know this = because he thought it only killed “germs.”
Ignorance is not stupidity.
Did you never discover some surprising gap in your knowledge?
There are stupid questions, his was, your’s is
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/24/2020 @ 3:10 pmDr. Don recommends the Clorox clyster! (Stinging sensations, foul smells, stomach ache, urges to urninate, itching, and frequent deaths have been reported.)
noel (4d3313) — 4/24/2020 @ 3:19 pmApologies, lurker. It can be hard to tell if someone is joking if they’re personality/writing style isn’t very familiar to readers. So with that, quit your lurking and hang out here in the comments section with us!
Dana (0feb77) — 4/24/2020 @ 3:23 pm*their*
Dana (0feb77) — 4/24/2020 @ 3:26 pmLooks like Aussie celebrities are about as useless as most of ours…
https://twitter.com/gretaleejackson/status/1253507484305637376
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/24/2020 @ 3:36 pmI’m comfortable assuming Trump was brainstorming. If by brainstorming you mean having a seizure where the neurons are just firing randomly. It’s been clear for years Trump has no filter between his brain and his mouth, whatever thought pops into his head just falls straight out of his face, and you can plainly see the gibberish that comes out when the brainstorm is raging. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. See? He had to say “or in some other way” because he totally forgot he knew all about UV catheters. That’s how brainstorms work when the sparks are just crackling and popping erratically.
And as far as disinfectants working to kill germs in saliva, fire will kill germs in saliva as well. In fact, I believe flames will even kill germs in tissue. I got me a couple of nice tissue samples of beef loin I plan on testing that theory on this weekend out on the deck with my bbq grill.
Jerryskids (702a61) — 4/24/2020 @ 3:52 pmWay off topic, but much more interesting to me than this POTUS’ utterances.
MSM masters are at it again- the eternal question of what is truth?
One headline:
Abortion: Does Supreme Court approach to precedent risk Roe v. Wade?
another headline:
Casting aside its precedents, Supreme Court moves inexorably toward abortion rights
felipe (023cc9) — 4/24/2020 @ 3:56 pminvitation read
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/24/2020 @ 3:59 pm“unleash your inner fascist”
many have complied
Sorry, Dana. I should have saved my previous comment for the weekend open thread.
felipe (023cc9) — 4/24/2020 @ 3:59 pmSuccess today in the briefing. Trump came out, read a statement, then shut his ridiculous mouth, Hawn and Pence spoke for a few minutes, out. 20 minutes start to finish, in the age of a moron being president, that is a tremendous success.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:01 pmI apologize for making it more personal than I should have.
However, my point is not that those who just say the truth about their ‘side’ of the aisle are heroic. My point is that this is just the baseline conduct we should expect. That’s why those who fall short are cowardly.
And let’s give you a point. You were right that Mitt Romney has some character. He proved it when he stood alone among Republican Senators and admitted that Trump’s behavior was reprehensible. I underestimated the man.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:01 pmThis evening, Trump didn;t take any questions and left the briefing after 22 minutes.
I don’t think cowing him is an improvement.
We need more diissention.
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:05 pmBut, yes, our system of picking presidents is broken.
No, the system is fine. The parties suck. They are each constrained by decades of litmus tests. Trump is a symptom of the way the are broken, in that he was the club the GOP was hit with. There was collateral damage though.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:10 pmChildren have been taught that this is fatal, for 70 years. Children.
You seem to be saying that he didn’t know this.
No one has ever told Trump “no.” As a child, people who stopped him from ingesting carbon tet, putting bobby pins in wall sockets or playing “spaceman” with dry-cleaning bags were probably fired for making him cry.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:14 pmhttps://youtu.be/GLIZTk-T2vY?t=45
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:17 pmJerryskids (702a61) — 4/24/2020 @ 3:52 pm
Of course Bill Bryan didn’t mean killing the virus in saliva while the saliva was still in someone’s mouth.
This was just testing out different media, or they were thinking of someone spitting.
Of curse it would be better if Trump had better brainstorms. That is better than having no brainstorms at all. Better to mention some stupid ideas than no ideas at all. And what I’d really like is to someone who would keep looking for and collect every (good) idea.
When I heard part of the briefing today it was extremely noticeable to me that someone talked about convalescent plasma, but not artificially creating antibodies. Completely missing from the things mentioned. And they want people to believe they’re looking at everything? Now the convalescent plasma contains numerous and diverse antibodies, but with artificially creating some antibodies you might pick the wrong ones. But this problem can be examined and overcome.
They talk about how much faster they are and how much they let me used and not at how slow they still are.
Yes, Trump forgot exactly what was used or what a UV catheter was called.
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:21 pmCheckout Drudge right now for a good laugh.
In case it goes away, here’s the LOLworthy image.
Priceless!
Dave (1bb933) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:22 pm126. The strength of the political parties, and the inability to get around them, or for candidates to act independent, is a big problem.
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:23 pmBored Lawyer,
I find myself agreeing with you more and more. This is a choice between bad and worse.
(Don’t even get me started on the binary-choice deniers. Unless it’s a Ross Perot situation, where a third-party candidate has significant presence in the polls, a vote for a third party–or not voting for a presidential candidate at all–elevates the worse over the merely bad. People can stick their fingers in their ears and yell all they want; it will not change this basic reality. Unfortunately, some people would rather have a seeming claim to purity than to acknowledge reality and vote for the bad over the worse. In actuality, this “purity” is fool’s gold, because the worse triumphs as a result of their choice.)
The people around Trump ARE slightly better than the people around Biden. Biden said he would put Beto O’ Rourke in charge of gun policy. What a nightmare that would be. Biden also said he would stop oil drilling immediately. Hey, if we’re going to take everything Trump says seriously, then the same applies to Biden, right?
To me, the real heroes in all this are the people in Trump’s circle (like Fauci) who have learned how to mollify him and work around him, putting up with who knows what, in order to serve our country’s best interest.
norcal (a5428a) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:24 pmnorcal, Trump should have been removed from office.
That would the right solution to the problem you describe, rather than deciding to vote for dog manure over horse manure because it attracts slightly fewer flies.
Dave (1bb933) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:31 pm132… well said, norcal!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:34 pmTrump plans to cut daily coronavirus briefings
Somebody said the magic word:
He’s got a big you-know-what, and figured it out all by himself!
(emphasis added)
If they were smart, they’d also disable his Twitter account.
Regardless, I predict this will not last even a week. He can’t bear to be out of the spotlight.
Dave (1bb933) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:44 pmDave,
I would not be upset if Trump were impeached and removed, or even if he expired as a result of catching the virus. All I’m saying is, if it comes down to Trump versus Biden in November, and there is no third-party candidate with a realistic, poll-proven shot, I’m going to vote for bad over worse.
norcal (a5428a) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:48 pmColonel Haiku @134,
Thanks!
norcal (a5428a) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:49 pmJoe Biden is an idiot. Trump is worse than that.
There are a lot of reasons to vote against both of them. Clearly a political system where these are the best candidates to lead the free world is a scam.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:52 pmApparently, Trump’s future press conferences may look different from the long-winded rambles airing now:
Ratings that indicate people who have nowhere to go and little else to do than watch TV, doesn’t speak to an engaging, informative statesman as much as the plain fact that people have already blazed through the Netflix and Amazon offierings, and are now resorting to the new tragicomedy that is Dr. Trump and His Friends.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:57 pm@139. It’s a quaint, 72-hour-excuse. He just didn’t want to get peppered w/Q&A on guzzling or injecting disinfectants to gt replayed over the weekend news cycles. Within a week he’ll gradually return to routine. He can’t resist it.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:02 pmTrump equates good ratings to accolades from his supporters. He can’t do rallies, where this immediate applause and approval, even adoration. All of which he feeds off of. Press briefings are the next best thing. I can only imagine it’s like pulling teeth to get him to give these up, or even modify them in anyway. His deserpate need for attention supersedes all else.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:03 pm@138. Indeed. He believes Trump will try to cancel/postpone the election in November due to the bug. That’s the prevue of Congress, not Trump. No doubt JoeyBee believed his remote control was broken, too– until Jill put fresh batteries in it.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:05 pmI didn’t take it seriously. I was LMAO the second I saw the clip. That Trump is one funny guy!
Fred (2a5e5e) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:06 pmSomething I’ve been wondering for a while is isn’t RipMurdock risking getting this site in trouble by continuously posting full articles with a link when that goes well beyond fair use.
Posting a small excerpt is always fine, but he just keeps posting full articles. I know CNN was known to go after sites doing that in their main posts.
NJRob (082807) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:09 pmAnd notice that the question of what is best for the country played no role in his decision.
He continued with these disastrous spectacles as long as he thought they were good for him, regardless of any harm to America. And self-interest is the only reason he is (for one day, at least) abandoning them.
Dave (1bb933) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:13 pmDustin,
I don’t believe our system is a scam. It’s not the system; it’s the people.
If the voters are dumb, or want contradictory things (low taxes AND government benefits), then the politicians will act accordingly. It’s not a matter of a bad system that produces poor candidates; it’s a matter of having a knowledgeable and virtuous people. Better people produce better candidates.
Real change happens from changing minds at a grassroots level, not from finding a perfect candidate.
I love this quote from Milton Friedman:
I do not believe that the solution to our problem is simply to elect the right people. The important thing is to establish a political climate of opinion which will make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Unless it is politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing, the right people will not do the right thing either, or if they try, they will shortly be out of office.
norcal (a5428a) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:13 pmBiden chooses Amy Klobachar as veep, he wins MN, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida, Ariz, and NC and possibly Ohio, it’s a landslide.
Trump was always going to lose the popular vote again. Biden’s still going to pick up most of those with Stacey Abrams, but she should be behind nearly everyone else as a choice.
He’s probably going to split the difference and choose Kamala Harris, she’s a lady person, brown, AND has some experience.
Biden will be more fiscally responsible, probably not by choice because Republicans in congress will remember spending if he’s president. Trump’s had the best economy since Clinton, and he’s spent money like a drunken sailor, or a Donald Trump, and when confronted with this crisis, we’re 4.5T deep 8 weeks in. If anyone thinks Biden would be as fiscally insane in the next 4 years maybe you’ve been sniffing too much bleach.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:15 pmWhen your choices for President come down to not “which is the best one?” but “which is the worst one?”, it is time to bring out the torches and pitchforks and dance La Carmagnole*.
*It doesn’t really mean to dance.
nk (1d9030) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:17 pmnk @148,
It’s just another manifestation of “democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time”.
norcal (a5428a) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:23 pmOf course there is no “perfect” candidate, but a good leader doesn’t have to accept public opinion as he/she finds it.
Leadership isn’t getting people to do what they already want to do. It’s getting them to do what they *should* do, even if they are reluctant.
Good leaders like Washington, Lincoln, FDR and Reagan (for example) did that. Even bad leaders like Carter at least tried to use persuasion to move public opinion in the direction they wanted, despite not being very good at it.
But Trump is only interested in the people who already agree with him. The concept of a good faith disagreement is completely alien to him. And that’s why he’s a total failure as a leader.
Dave (1bb933) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:36 pm“Early evidence suggested Hydroxychloroquine might be promising. Physicians in the hardest hit countries, Spain and Italy, for example, reported that it was their preferred treatment for the coronavirus. One day from the podium the president touted the drug as a promising lead, and that was it for Hydroxychloroquine. From that moment on, precisely that moment, in the minds of partisans in our media establishment, Hydroxychloroquine was purely a political issue. The drug was no longer a medicine, a therapy, it was the medical equivalent of Vladimir Putin. It was a cudgel they could swing in the air mindlessly to hit their ideological opponents, in the hopes of political gain. They ignored evidence that Hydroxychloroquine might be effective in some ways, they waited anxiously for evidence that it might not be and the other day, they got itseveral recent studies suggest that Hydroxychloroquine is unlikely to help people who are already severely ill with the coronavirus. For most Americans this was disappointing news, they wanted it to work. But at CNN, it was cause for celebration.”
— – Tucker Carlson
CNN and elsewhere… Meanwhile, the drug is still in use to treat the virus and several studies of its efficacy are still underway…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:45 pmGreat comment, norcal.
Most Republicans did not want Donald Trump to be the president, and most voters did not want him to win the general. He’s up there musing about injecting grandma with bleach, then telling us we didn’t hear our lying ears right. I really think the party itself could have rallied behind Ted Cruz but refused, preferring Hillary two a distinct two party system that would force them to live up to their claimed ideals.
Obviously Ted Cruz wasn’t a perfect candidate. No one even expects the GOP to produce a decent candidate, let alone a perfect one. And it’s hardly just the GOP.
What’s going wrong is a scam of epic proportion. Lies emanating from our nation’s mortal enemies, spread by bots, fools, and manipulators. Yes, then spread by gullible fanatics.
Before your proposed solution can work, where the wrong people win reelection by doing the right thing, the things they do have to actually be understood. It’s like the tree falling where no one can hear it. I thought the internet would bring citizen journalism and free exchange of ideas. The truth would have a fighting chance. But unfortunately, it’s not working out that way, except on a few blogs like this one (Which are abhorred by all these screaming nutcases).
The scam is not who counts the votes. It’s how it has become impossible for anyone to do the right thing without the lying destroying their political career. I cling to the naive hope that prosecuting the collusion between Donald Trump and Putin can deter some of that, save some of our democracy for our kids. That’s why I’d pick Biden over Trump if the election were today.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:47 pmIt’s not that it doesn’t ever work. It’s just that it kills a lot of people. It’s probably a solution in very specific conditions. Amazing that Trump made this particular drug a massive political issue, where whether it works or not becomes a cause of faith by fanatics.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:49 pmNJRob @144-
Unless it’s a very brief article, I only post excerpts. Notice the ellipsis? If you go to the linked article, you will notice a lot is edited out.
Thanks for your concern, though.
RipMurdock (8bf811) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:52 pmYoung and middle-aged people, barely sick with covid-19, are dying from strokes
……
Reports of strokes in the young and middle-aged — not just at Mount Sinai, but also in many other hospitals in communities hit hard by the coronavirus— are the latest twist in our evolving understanding of covid-19. Even as the virus has infected nearly 2.8 million people worldwide and killed about 195,000 as of Friday, its biological mechanisms continue to elude top scientific minds. Once thought to be a pathogen that primarily attacks the lungs, it has turned out to be a much more formidable foe — impacting nearly every major organ system in the body.
……
Now for the first time, three large U.S. medical centers are preparing to publish data on the stroke phenomenon. The numbers are small, only a few dozen per location, but they provide new insights into what the virus does to our bodies.
……..
The analyses suggest coronavirus patients are mostly experiencing the deadliest type of stroke. Known as large vessel occlusions, or LVOs, they can obliterate large parts of the brain responsible for movement, speech and decision-making in one blow because they are in the main blood-supplying arteries.
Many researchers suspect strokes in covid-19 patients may be a direct consequence of blood problems that are producing clots all over some people’s bodies.
…….
Thomas Jefferson University Hospitals, which operates 14 medical centers in Philadelphia, and NYU Langone Health in New York City, found that 12 of their patients treated for large blood blockages in their brains during a three-week period had the virus. Forty percent were under 50, and they had few or no risk factors. Their paper is under review by a medical journal, said Pascal Jabbour, a neurosurgeon at Thomas Jefferson.
Jabbour and his co-author Eytan Raz, an assistant professor of neuroradiology at NYU Langone, said that strokes in covid-19 patients challenge conventional thinking. “We are used to thinking of 60 as a young patient when it comes to large vessel occlusions,” Raz said of the deadliest strokes. “We have never seen so many in their 50s, 40s and late 30s.”
RipMurdock (8bf811) — 4/24/2020 @ 6:00 pm>>>>>>>
Amazing that Trump made this particular drug a massive political issue, where whether it works or not becomes a cause of faith by fanatics
Yeah, that’s exactly what Carlson said. Sheesh.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/24/2020 @ 6:00 pm@ norcal, #132:
Yeah? Let me tell you about MY basic reality. I live in one of the reddest states in America. If Trump needs my vote up win here, he’s already lost. So I felt free to vote third-party last time. Amazingly, my not voting for him did not hurt Trump in the slightest. But you’re just gonna stick your fingers in your ears and yell at this point, because my basic reality runs directly counter to your basic fantasy.
I did vote for the bad over the worse. I voted for Gary Johnson. You voted for the worse. Whether you voted for Trump or for Clinton, you voted for the worse. Because you voted for the system that gave us the two worst major-party nominees in American history. And every time you vote for a candidate from a major party that does not at least marginally deserve your vote, then you vote to perpetuate that state of affairs.
Sorry. I know getting that much reality all at once can be really hard for people like you.
Demosthenes (0d7362) — 4/24/2020 @ 6:05 pmWhen was Carlson’s last tongue-bath of the “miracle cure”?
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/24/2020 @ 6:06 pm‘Don’t Try This at Home’: Even ‘Fox & Friends’ Balked at Trump’s Advice
Even Steve Doocy had to admit it wasn’t a great idea.
The morning after President Trump mused at a nationally televised briefing that injecting disinfectant could be a treatment for Covid-19 patients, Mr. Doocy, a co-host of “Fox & Friends,” issued a warning to his Fox News viewers.
Injecting disinfectants “is poisonous,” Mr. Doocy said, holding up his hands for emphasis, during an otherwise upbeat segment that praised Mr. Trump for his other health tip: Get more sunlight. (The guest, Dr. Mehmet Oz, did not address the disinfectant idea.)
It was a rare fissure between the president and “Fox & Friends,” a show that regularly praises him. But Mr. Doocy was not the only Fox personality who was unimpressed by the notion that Americans would consider the internal use of disinfectant, which can result in serious injury and death.
“Please don’t try this at home,” said the Fox Business anchor Stuart Varney, one of Mr. Trump’s favorite hosts. The anchor Chris Wallace — not a Trump favorite — felt the need to clarify on-air: “The answer is no, it’s not safe. A lot of the major manufacturers say it isn’t.”
………
If the president — who obsessively monitors his news coverage — was seeking backup, he could have turned to his other preferred media outlets, where his idea for an unorthodox remedy was not so much excused as deemed not to exist.
“The drive-by media is attempting to persuade and convince people that Donald Trump told people to drink Drano at the White House press briefing,” the radio host Rush Limbaugh said dismissively on his Friday show. “That Donald Trump told people to go out and get a syringe and inject Clorox in their arms, and that this could be dangerous.”
Here is what Mr. Trump said at Thursday’s briefing: “I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets inside the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that.”
Joel B. Pollak, the senior editor at large at Breitbart News, wrote about that statement in a column that ran under the headline “Fact Check: No, Trump Didn’t Propose Injecting People With Disinfectant.”
“Trump used the word ‘inject,’ but what he meant was using a process — which he left ‘medical doctors’ to define — in which patients’ lungs might be cleared of the virus,” Mr. Pollak wrote. (Breitbart later retracted its “fact check” headline, saying the column “should have been framed as an opinion piece.”)
RipMurdock (8bf811) — 4/24/2020 @ 6:07 pm>>>>>>>>>
Trump Speech to Bring 1,000 West Point Cadets Back to Campus
For President Trump, who adores the pomp and precision of military ceremonies, this was the year he would finally get one of the special perks of being president — delivering the commencement address at West Point, the only service academy where he has not spoken.
…..
And so last Friday, the day before Mr. Pence was to speak at the Air Force ceremony in Colorado, Mr. Trump, never one to be upstaged, abruptly announced that he would, in fact, be speaking at West Point.
That was news to everyone, including officials at West Point, according to three people involved with or briefed on the event. The academy had been looking at the option of a delayed presidential commencement in June, but had yet to complete any plans. With Mr. Trump’s pre-emptive statement, they are now summoning 1,000 cadets scattered across the country to return to campus in New York, the state that is the center of the outbreak.
……
“But everyone is leery about bringing 1,000 cadets into the New York metropolitan area for a ceremony,” she (Sue Fulton, a West Point graduate and former chairwoman of the academy’s Board of Visitors) added. “It’s definitely a risk.”
……..
White House officials said Mr. Trump left it up to the school to decide whether it was safe to hold a graduation ceremony in June, and pointed out that he could always reassess his decision closer to the date if the coronavirus crisis made it impossible for him to attend.
But his appearance at West Point, while not in any way unusual or unexpected, had yet to be announced.
……
That is, nothing had been decided until last Friday, April 17, when, at a news conference, Mr. Trump was asked about Mr. Pence’s coming trip to the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs.
Mr. Trump told reporters that he would be speaking at the West Point graduation in the near future, noting that he did not like the look of a socially distanced graduation and that he hoped the “look” of the ceremony would be “nice and tight.” He did not announce a date for the event.
West Point officials said this week that they were taken aback by the impromptu announcement. Of the many graduation options under review, Mr. Trump had pre-empted their planning.
RipMurdock (2c04e3) — 4/24/2020 @ 6:55 pm>>>>>>>
It is your choice, Rip, but copyrighted material typically means you need permission to reprint, although there are exceptions like fair use. I think that means a link and a limited quote. One forum defines fair use as excerpting no more than 1/5 of the content; others say no more than 1 or 2 paragraphs.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/24/2020 @ 7:16 pmDave @150,
I agree. Good leaders can sway the populace. However, this only goes so far. Oftentimes it is a case of leading a horse to water, but not being able to make the horse drink. Remember when Reagan proposed a mild reform to Social Security? The Senate voted 98-0 against it.
I guess the answer is a combination of good leadership AND changing minds on a grassroots level.
norcal (a5428a) — 4/24/2020 @ 7:21 pm162-
RipMurdock (2c04e3) — 4/24/2020 @ 7:28 pmThanks for your concern.
norcal,
When I rule the world, all children will be taken from their parents at age seven and placed in government schools until age 20. If they graduate successfully, they will be full-fledged citizens entitled to both participate in civic affairs and to further education and assistance to pursue the careers of their choices. If they fail, they will have the status of residents, not entitled to participate in civic matters or to further education, but under no other legal disabilities, free to make the best use of their abilities, aptitudes and skills, and their children will be entitled to the same chance at education and citizenship that they had.
nk (1d9030) — 4/24/2020 @ 7:33 pmDemosthenes @157,
You make a good point about living in a very red state, which frees you to vote for a third party. I think my point still stands for swing states, however.
I stand by my statement that the reason we had the “two worst major-party nominees” is not because of the system, but because of the quality of the voters. The politicians are merely appeasing the voters. It’s not that the politicians thwart the will of the people. It’s that the people want contradictory things.
They want low taxes but lots of government benefits. Cheap produce but no illegal immigration. Good schools but no discipline of their children. No crime but no new prisons. New vaccines developed quickly but limits on what the drug companies can charge. And on and on.
norcal (a5428a) — 4/24/2020 @ 7:36 pmI’ve added a video clip of the President from today, claiming that he was being sarcastic when he made the comments yesterday.
Dana (0feb77) — 4/24/2020 @ 7:39 pmnk (1d9030) — 4/24/2020 @ 7:33 pm
I like that, except for taking the “children will be taken from their parents” part. I prefer that parents “have the right to a government education provided to their children if they cannot afford one.”
felipe (023cc9) — 4/24/2020 @ 7:40 pmnk @165,
Very funny!
Is it your contention that private, voluntary efforts to change the political climate of opinion are useless?
norcal (a5428a) — 4/24/2020 @ 7:46 pmSo academics (like me) would have the ultimate power of decision over who can vote and govern?
I think this idea has a lot of potential, nk!
Dave (1bb933) — 4/24/2020 @ 7:48 pmHome Alone at the White House: A Sour President, With TV His Constant Companion
President Trump arrives in the Oval Office these days as late as noon, when he is usually in a sour mood after his morning marathon of television.
He has been up in the White House master bedroom as early as 5 a.m. watching Fox News, then CNN, with a dollop of MSNBC thrown in for rage viewing. He makes calls with the TV on in the background, his routine since he first arrived at the White House.
………
The president sees few allies no matter which channel he clicks. He is angry even with Fox, an old security blanket, for not portraying him as he would like to be seen. And he makes time to watch Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo’s briefings from New York, closely monitoring for a sporadic compliment or snipe.
Confined to the White House, the president is isolated from the supporters, visitors, travel and golf that once entertained him, according to more than a dozen administration officials and close advisers who spoke about Mr. Trump’s strange new life. He is tested weekly, as is Vice President Mike Pence, for Covid-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus.
The economy — Mr. Trump’s main case for re-election — has imploded. News coverage of his handling of the coronavirus has been overwhelmingly negative as Democrats have condemned him for a lack of empathy, honesty and competence in the face of a pandemic. Even Republicans have criticized Mr. Trump’s briefings as long-winded and his rough handling of critics as unproductive.
RipMurdock (2c04e3) — 4/24/2020 @ 7:48 pm…….
The daily White House coronavirus task force briefing is the one portion of the day that Mr. Trump looks forward to, although even Republicans say that the two hours of political attacks, grievances and falsehoods by the president are hurting him politically.
Mr. Trump will hear none of it. Aides say he views them as prime-time shows that are the best substitute for the rallies he can no longer attend but craves.
Mr. Trump rarely attends the task force meetings that precede the briefings, and he typically does not prepare before he steps in front of the cameras. He is often seeing the final version of the day’s main talking points that aides have prepared for him for the first time although aides said he makes tweaks with a Sharpie just before he reads them live. He hastily plows through them, usually in a monotone, in order to get to the question-and-answer bullying session with reporters that he relishes.
>>>>>>>
Dana,
Thanks, but no apology necessary. This isn’t the first time I’ve had an attempt at humor taken literally, so I wouldn’t rule out that the fault is in my ability to be funny, not yours to detect it.
lurker (d8c5bc) — 4/24/2020 @ 7:49 pm“West Point officials said this week that they were taken aback by the impromptu announcement. Of the many graduation options under review, Mr. Trump had pre-empted their planning.”
The best way to show you support the troops is to use them as props for your self-aggrandizement.
Davethulhu (7748fb) — 4/24/2020 @ 7:49 pm@165, 170
RipMurdock (2c04e3) — 4/24/2020 @ 7:56 pmSounds a lot like Heinlein’s society in Starship Troopers (the book, not the movie).
So academics (like me) would have the ultimate power of decision over who can vote and govern?
No, not like you, unless you are a product of the government schools having successfully matriculated and entitled to further education and assistance to join them as a teacher. Unless you’d rather enter the secret police academy or the military academy instead?
nk (1d9030) — 4/24/2020 @ 7:59 pmlike that, except for taking the “children will be taken from their parents” part. I prefer that parents “have the right to a government education provided to their children if they cannot afford one.”
Nope, sorry. Everybody has to go. Everybody will learn what it takes to be a good citizen or at least as much of it as they can. If they end up inbred technophobic pig farmers (see earlier Harvard lady/homeschooling post; Wisconsin v. Yoder) and not astronauts, it will be because of themselves and not be because their parents condemned them to it.
nk (1d9030) — 4/24/2020 @ 8:09 pmnk,
I see that you have taken over from happyfeet as the court jester. 🙂
norcal (a5428a) — 4/24/2020 @ 8:10 pmThe idea goes back a bit farther than that…
Dave (1bb933) — 4/24/2020 @ 8:10 pmVery well done, nk. You are delightfully wicked with your humor.
norcal (a5428a) — 4/24/2020 @ 8:12 pmIs it your contention that private, voluntary efforts to change the political climate of opinion are useless?
The fools are always in the majority, and they will be swayed by the glibbest con-man. It’s why we are where we are now.
nk (1d9030) — 4/24/2020 @ 8:15 pmLycurgus made it the law of Sparta 300 years before the trial of Socrates.
nk (1d9030) — 4/24/2020 @ 8:17 pmYep, nk, you’ve never loved anybody ’til you’ve loved them all the way.
felipe (023cc9) — 4/24/2020 @ 8:28 pmNo worries, felipe, I don’t really want to rule the world.
nk (1d9030) — 4/24/2020 @ 8:37 pmSpot on, from Jonathan Bernstein this morning:
There’s a clip circulating of Dr. Deborah Birx, a member of the coronavirus task force, reacting in resigned disbelief as Trump launches into this digression. It was astonishing in a sense. But also: par for the course. Birx is every trade expert when Trump talks tariffs, every health-policy expert when he talks health care, every defense expert when he talks about the military. He combines uncanny confidence with a total lack of knowledge on topic after topic.
Purple Martin (34703c) — 4/24/2020 @ 9:35 pmA team of more than 50 doctors and scientists, nearly all from UC, has done the work that Trump’s FDA couldn’t be bothered to: testing 12 different antibody tests on the market.
3 out of the 12 performed in line with their claims. Some of the others had false positive rates as high as 16%, which makes them worse than useless (and dangerously misleading); the rest were around 5%, which is still useless when the fraction of the population infected is at most a couple percent.
Read the story.
Here’s the draft of the scientific article (awaiting peer-review).
Dave (1bb933) — 4/24/2020 @ 9:41 pmPreach, Norcal!
urbanleftbehind (be2bf1) — 4/24/2020 @ 10:01 pmhttps://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/04/undocumented-immigrants-cant-collect-unemployment-gov-murphy-considering-600-a-week-fund.html
More sob stories trying to get citizens to pay more money to the state to give to illegal aliens. $600 a week and the story they use is an illegal alien who quit her job cause she got sick.
NJRob (4d595c) — 4/24/2020 @ 10:19 pmMost Republicans did not want Donald Trump to be the president, and most voters did not want him to win the general.
I wish the first was true, but it sadly wasn’t. It seems to still be true, although I have no idea why.
The second is strictly true, if “most voters” means “slightly more than 50% of eligible voters who bothered to vote.” But it is also misleading in that it implies a sizable majority wanted the other candidate.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/24/2020 @ 11:52 pmThe sane vote was split and would not rally around Trump. The GOP opted for Hillary over Ted Cruz (under the mistaken assumption Trump would fail). If there had been a runoff contest, Trump would not have been nominated. I wish the GOP stood for something.
So it’s the truth that three million more voters opted against Trump than for him, yet it is misleading to say the majority did not want him to be president? OK Buddy.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/25/2020 @ 12:31 amSince time immemorial democrat party leadership has been trying to appeal to republicans and republicans registered as independents to vote democrat because otherwise they would have to appeal to the party base who are minorities and white leftys. Clinton in 2016 is the perfect example of this. Republican party leadership has always (since reagan) appealed to the populist base who they view as ignorant white trash clinging to their guns and god (obama recognized this) This worked as long as the wealthy donor class could buy primary elections for the elite libertarian-conservatives and their intellectual opinion makers in conservative media. It started to go down hill with the tea party and david brats primary win 2014. Then former democrat and now neo-populist trump comes along with money and like toto in the wizard of oz pulls the curtain away from the establishment elites and we see the man behind the curtain. The 2016 election demonstrated that the 10% on top of the republican party could no longer control the bottom 90% of the party who are populists not libertarian-conservative ideologue. You better hope joe biden continues to try to appeal to republicans who hate liberal democrats as clinton did to appease the donor class. If he hasn’t been arrested for sexually assaulting tara reade and starts trying to appeal to the democratic base instead of ignoring them as clinton did. Watch out! There are more democrats in their base the republicans in their base.
asset (b6e275) — 4/25/2020 @ 2:31 amDave@185. Great post and article. This research is essential. Without it, we really are blind.
noel (4d3313) — 4/25/2020 @ 5:56 am@ asset, #190:
It’s called a paragraph, dude. Look it up.
Demosthenes (0d7362) — 4/25/2020 @ 9:17 amEvery disaster movie starts with the government ignoring scientists, Dave.
DRJ (15874d) — 4/25/2020 @ 9:52 amLink to one study from the 40’s on using UV radiation on blood to treat various diseases.
Colliente (05736f) — 4/25/2020 @ 5:35 pm
or, not
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6122858/?fbclid=IwAR0TCMxA062mLmgG9u4k-6sqeTP_Y6fdTUAYdXH3qlQu1SmBhLSy1tKMhlk
Colliente (05736f) — 4/25/2020 @ 5:36 pm132. norcal (a5428a) — 4/24/2020 @ 4:24 pm
And Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel on his Public Health Advisory Committee.
He’s the person who rote this:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/10/why-i-hope-to-die-at-75/379329/
But there’s no reason for you to worry about Beto O’Rourke. Nothing will happen. And you”d need for Congress, or a state, to pass a law.
Biden sommetimes says thins for political reasons. He just said an idea the other day (that is actually a form of pandering) that was so wrong the New York Times reporter had to imply a correction in a news article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/us/politics/joseph-biden-trump-election.html
(the states control it, and if no Electoral votes were cast, or the result was mired in some dispute, that would not extend his term. Instead, the Speaker of the House would become acting president and there are some complicated possibilities)
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/25/2020 @ 8:19 pm140. DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:05 pm
Congress can move the date slightly, but they can’t extend the 4-year term.
Come to think of it, I suppose you could argue that they could pass a law saying that if no person has qualified to be president, (maybe because the new Congress refused to accept any Electoral votes) X will act as president. But the 20th amendment implies that no person is named in the law.
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/25/2020 @ 8:29 pmDustin (e5f6c3) — 4/24/2020 @ 5:49 pm
No it doesn’t. It’s been accused of causing heart arrhythmias, which is only the beginning of problem. I think that’s not a recognized side effect of hydroxychloroquine.
And maybe this is only when extremely high doses are administered, and the doctors can’t cut back, because in a clinical trial, the doses are fixed and can’t be adjusted without kicking the patient out of the trial. Another thing wrong with the idea of clinical trials.
Did the U.S. military use clinical trials when they vastly improved the treatment of trauma in Iraq?
No, they used experience and their brains. Hard to do, maybe and they can take wrong steps, but the standard way of approving new things we have now is flat out wrong.
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/25/2020 @ 8:57 pm151. 156. This is not just political. It’s probably corrupt. There’s some massive slanderous public relations campaign being waged against hydroxychloroquine. And it is not based o opposition to Trump.
Of course hydroxychloroquine is of limited and unknown value, and maybe needs sufficient quantities zinc in the bloodstream to accomplish anything, but the evidence for it is much better than that for remdesivir, which has never worked for anything, but has the advantage of having a massive public relations campaign being waged in its favor.
And what would really work is way down the list of things that get mentioned:
https://www.economist.com/briefing/2020/04/18/some-benefits-of-a-covid-vaccine-could-come-early
But these products need FDA approval, and any company that needs FDA approval doesn’t dare lobby for it.
But Trump could give things a good push.
If he keeps on talking about cures, maybe he will stumble on this. Stopping him talking about treatments and cures does nobody any good.
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/25/2020 @ 9:28 pmGive it a rest, Hydroxychloroquine is not a treatment for Covid. It’s probably less dangerous than injecting bleach, but more dangerous than sticking a light up your bum, all are equal in treating Covid-19.
Why you go on about this foolishness is unfathomable.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/25/2020 @ 9:35 pm@Dustin
Now the FDA gave a warning about hydroxychloroquine
And what was the FDA’s warning based on?
Read carefully:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fda-cautions-against-hydroxychloroquine-outside-hospital-setting-n1191266
Now does that translate into a warning against hydroxychloroquine?
There is something towards the end of the article about possible cardiac effects of hydroxychloroquine but who knows if that’s even correct about what some cardiologists said?
And what do I find about the stopping clinical trials of hydroxychloroquine with Google?
https://www.sciencealert.com/clinical-trial-for-high-dose-of-chloroquine-stopped-early-due-to-safety-concerns
Only it’s not hydroxychloroquine, but chloroquine. The two are not the same thing, even if Google treats them that way.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/04/15/coronavirus-chloroquine-test-halted-drug/2983129001/
No, he didn’t tout chloroquine, but hydroxychloroquine
Maybe this?
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/11/the-latest-hydroxychloroquine-data-as-of-april-11
Nope:
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/25/2020 @ 9:36 pmHydroxychloroquine is a scam, you’re backing a losing horse after the race is over.
This is known, you might as well be promoting leaches. Actually, leaches are safer.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/25/2020 @ 9:41 pm203. Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/25/2020 @ 9:41 pm
I’m not exactly promoting it. I think it has limited use, and that mostly before it gets very serious.
What’s probably a scam is remdesivir.
Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 4/25/2020 @ 10:17 pm@ Sammy Finkelman, #197:
This is, not to put too fine a point on it, extremely unlikely. Under the scenario you’re considering, there would be no Speaker of the House, because there would be no House to elect a Speaker.
The election that Biden is implying Trump would try to delay is obviously not the vote of the Electoral College, but rather, the vote of the people. Currently, the popular vote is what determines all the members of the Electoral College, as you know. However, it also determines the winners of every seat in the House and Senate currently up for election. If the popular vote for presidential electors is not held, it defies belief that congressional elections would still take place. And since all members of the House are up for election every two years, and since their terms expire before January 20 of next year, in the scenario Biden is talking about, none of them would still be congressmen. So it would be more likely that the president pro tempore of the Senate would become acting president, since there would still be senators in office, and since new ones could be appointed to the vacant seats on a temporary basis if an election is impossible.
However, even this scenario is extremely unlikely. In the event that there could be no popular vote for president, we could still have an Electoral College to pick a president. Article 2, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution clearly states that authority for prescribing the manner in which electors will be chosen rests solely with the legislatures of the several states. At the moment, all states have chosen to award their electoral votes in accordance with the vote of the people, either on a statewide basis (most states) or in a district-by-district fashion (Maine and Nebraska). However, they could always rewrite that procedure for this election. They could simply vote on their electors, or they could allow their state’s governor to appoint some or all of them. Nothing unconstitutional about it. So we’ll still have an Electoral College, and we’ll still have a president.
Demosthenes (7fae81) — 4/25/2020 @ 10:37 pmGood points, Demosthenes, but can’t states also temporarily fill vacancies in House seats by appointment?
Granted, it would be unprecedented to have all 435 members appointed.
The least controversial thing to do in that scenario would be to reappoint the previously elected representatives, although if the House were going to elect the president due to an inadequate number of electors being chosen (if states can’t or don’t change their electoral laws) there would strong partisan incentives to “stack the deck” wherever possible.
Dave (1bb933) — 4/26/2020 @ 3:17 ambut can’t states also temporarily fill vacancies in House seats by appointment?
No.
nk (1d9030) — 4/26/2020 @ 3:54 am@ Dave, #206:
From Article 1, Section 2, which is the section that deals with the House of Representatives:
So nk is right. Senators may be appointed temporarily. However, all congressmen must be elected.
Demosthenes (7fae81) — 4/26/2020 @ 4:16 amI should add that I am not worried about any of this happening. No matter what the circumstances, the Constitution mandates an election this year. From Article 1, Section 1:
The last such election was in 2018. So we have to have one this year. You might be able to delay the election to December, but Article 1 implies that you can’t put it off past the New Year. So if people are voting on their congressmen anyway, they might as well choose an Electoral College while they’re at it.
Demosthenes (7fae81) — 4/26/2020 @ 4:36 amum yes
Sammy I love ya man, but sometimes you miss the forest for the forest. These are prescription drugs. They are all forbidden from free use, requiring expertise to administer.
Instead, the president told the whole country it was a miracle cure. And his administration heavily influenced research efforts. And his endless horde of fanatical fans spun every story to promote the drug, praying it would make Trump’s critics look bad.
Whole bunch of lazy ghouls, if you ask me.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/26/2020 @ 8:29 amDustin,
please quote the president saying it was a miracle cure.
Thanks in advance.
NJRob (4d595c) — 4/26/2020 @ 9:07 amSure, Trump’s not been a quacksalver of all things medical over the years, including Hydroxychloroquine, “very powerful light”, and injecting disinfectant. This isn’t new, he’s wrong only when he’s talking, about everything, this too, he’s probably correct in all those silent times.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/26/2020 @ 9:49 amTrump tweet:
DRJ (15874d) — 4/26/2020 @ 10:00 amThe virus is a prothrombotic. It induces cytokine storms. They cause abnormal blood clotting and systemic organ failure. That’s how people on ventilators die. Not from respiratory failure. People on ventilators do not die from respiratory failure. From the cytokine storms.
Cytokine storms are immune reactions. Both chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are immunosuppressives. They can be used to suppress the cytokine storms.
However, they also extend the qt interval. Arrhythmia. Heart failure. Death. So patients on them need to be monitored very closely. And they might not be effective against the cytokine storms anyway but that’s not their fault.
People are still in the learning stage of this little China bug.
nk (1d9030) — 4/26/2020 @ 12:53 pm214. Cytokine storms are mercifully rare, even compared to the nominal fatality rates of CoViD-19. The most common cause of death in CoViD-19 cases seems to be very similar to seasonal flu, which is alveo-bronchiolar collapse.
Now before you accuse me of conflating the two, there is one important difference between seasonal flu and CoViD-19; the novel coronavirus seems to have a rather odd effect on the cells that generate surfactant in the alveolar processes. You can breathe out carbon dioxide, but you can’t breathe in oxygen sufficiently. Normally the human body responds to hypercapnia by working to increase the amount of oxygen in the blood, but without hypercapnia, an individual won’t feel short of breath even if their oxygen levels are otherwise dangerously low.
Gryph (08c844) — 4/26/2020 @ 1:03 pmUseful in early stages, but of no use when the infected are in a more severe stage… which is pretty much what was said early on.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/26/2020 @ 1:03 pmI don’t know enough to accuse you of anything, Gryph. The people who tell me these things know what they’re talking about, but that does not mean I know what they’re (really) talking about.
nk (1d9030) — 4/26/2020 @ 1:09 pm217. TL;DR: CoViD-19 does mostly the same stuff that the seasonal flu does to you, but there are a couple of oddities about it that can make it difficult to know just how sick you are until it’s too late.
Gryph (08c844) — 4/26/2020 @ 1:16 pmThanks drj. Nj you should acknowledge Trump’s remarks. If it helps, imagine how you would react if Bush or Romney praised an unproven and dangerous treatment and it turned out to be bs.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 4/26/2020 @ 1:16 pmBrillant interview
https://tsionizm.com/science-technology/2020/04/25/hero-dr-zelenko-calls-into-steve-bannons-war-room-pandemic-to-discuss-chloroquine-trials/
Jake (4c234f) — 4/26/2020 @ 1:34 pmWhatever mental gymnastics you have to do to get to this conclusion. Give your head a shake.
Jake (4c234f) — 4/26/2020 @ 1:35 pmA conspiracy thoeorist interviewing a quacksalver, brilliant.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/26/2020 @ 1:36 pmYeah, the things that makes it multiple orders of magnitude more deadly, BECAUSE IT’S NOT THE FLU!!!
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/26/2020 @ 1:40 pm205. Demosthenes (7fae81) — 4/25/2020 @ 10:37 pm
That scenario has a House elected (maybe not all seats filled) but not a president, because maybe, the Electors wouldn’t meet, or it woud be mired in some dispute. But elections for the Houee f Representatives are done under different provisions of law.
Congress – and it would take an Act of Congress to do so – might create confusion about what day he Electors are to chosen pr when they should cast their votes.
In the Election of 1876, Congressional elections went off fine, but there were competing sets of
Electoral votes.
The terms of members of Congress now
expire on noon of January 3, while the terms of the president and vice president start and end on
January 20. Before the election of 1936, it was the Lame Duck Congress that counted the votes.
Another reason is that the House might not have elected a Speaker.
Yes.
Even if only a dozen states cast Electoral votes (Civil War and Reconstruction precedent)
Sammy Finkelman (1c27d2) — 4/26/2020 @ 1:57 pm213. Mar 21. At that point he’s only talking about hydroxychloroquine, and not chloroquine.
He declares that hydroxychloroquine combined with azithromycin “have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine.” which, even if were true that it was a near sure fire cure for the coronavirus, would not strike an informed person as a reasonable statement to make.
What about sulfa drugs and antibiotics??
The “history of medicine,” he said.
This is probably Trump deliberately exaggerating.
And this isn’t a disease that kills most of those who get infected, so why would this be such a game changer?
Trump thanks the FDA and cites a reference (which he no doubt got secondhand): The International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents.
Here’s a criticism of that paper:
https://scienceintegritydigest.com/2020/03/24/thoughts-on-the-gautret-et-al-paper-about-hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-treatment-of-covid-19-infections
It’s apparently “unethical” to make a study using a drug for a different purpose than approved without getting permission from some comittee (ethical to use it, just not ethical to publish a study about whether or not or how well it works) but it is ethical to randomly select a control group.
Now he has some other criticisms.
Sammy Finkelman (1c27d2) — 4/26/2020 @ 2:30 pmThis test is much more practical than and easier on people than the nose and throat swab tests they’ve been using.
https://www.rutgers.edu/news/new-rutgers-saliva-test-coronavirus-gets-fda-approval
This is not the breakthrough in testing Deborah Birx thinks we need.
Deborah Birx thinks an antigen test, as opposed to a nucleac acid test, is needed, I think because you get quicker resls with an antigen test (I had thought a RNA test was the ideal. Of course what they are doig now also misses infections if it is not in the nose or throat.)
Sammy Finkelman (1c27d2) — 4/26/2020 @ 2:44 pmAddrional information about Trump’s statement on disinfectants.
Last week, Deborah Birx said Trump was in the process of digesting information when he said that about maybe injection disinfectants.
She couldn’t repeat that exactly today, because Trump had come out with a different explanation (to which he added, Clorox is good for washing hands!)
https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-april-26-2020-n1192616
And then she went on to give an explanation as to why they talked about disinfectants in the first place – she was sorry this was missed. She said that study was important because it showed what (great) impact sunlight has on the virus and the viral half-life.
Sammy Finkelman (1c27d2) — 4/26/2020 @ 2:59 pmThat’s nice. Now about the words from Trump’s own gob.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/26/2020 @ 3:20 pm223. It’s not multiple orders of magnitude more deadly, dumbs**t. You can quit the fearmongering anytime now.
Gryph (08c844) — 4/26/2020 @ 3:24 pmPlease, define for us what you think an order of magnitude is.
Seasonal Influenza Mortality Rate–0.1%
Covid-19 Mortality Rate–2.3%
Now, use a calculator to determine what that is, then compare to the definition you looked up earlier.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/26/2020 @ 3:38 pmGryph, please, no need to call the Colonel names. You could have left that out and your point would have been more effective. Nice response Colonel, except, you did say “multiple orders of magnitude”, so you should probably correct that.
Colliente (05736f) — 4/26/2020 @ 3:58 pmSeasonal Influenza=.1%
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 4/26/2020 @ 4:03 pmOrder of Magnitude=10X
Covid-19=Flu(2.3 * 10)
This guy listened to the conference and makes a few notes on where the media went wild:
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/04/cspan_posting_inaccurate_transcripts_of_trump_briefings.html
I found this part interesting
It is clear that Trump, earlier, said “injection,” but clarified what he was talking about as Jonathan Carl started the insane notion of injecting bleach. As far as saying “disinfectant?” UV light is a disinfectant so that really isn’t an issue.
BuDuh (8cb3f5) — 4/30/2020 @ 11:40 amA New York-based doctor and recent right-wing star has reportedly drawn the scrutiny of federal prosecutors after a former Mueller probe character accidentally emailed one of Mueller’s deputies about the doctor’s work.
The doctor, Vladimir “Zev” Zelenko, has championed the same anti-malaria drug that the President has speculated for weeks could be a COVID-19 cure: Hydroxychloroquine.
But when Jerome Corsi — who prosecutors suggested was Roger Stone’s back channel to Wikileaks — tried to send an email to Zelenko about his work, Corsi accidentally contacted the wrong person: Aaron Zelinsky, a former prosecutor on Mueller’s team who’s now investigating coronavirus-related crimes in the Maryland U.S. Attorney’s office.
The Washington Post got the story of the unfortunate mix-up Thursday night.
The two are quite familiar with each other. Zelinsky investigated Corsi and interviewed him extensively as part of the Mueller probe. At one point, prosecutors reportedly drafted a plea agreement for Corsi in which he would have admitted to lying about Wikileaks, but Corsi said he refused to sign it.
Zelinsky was one of several prosecutors to withdraw from the federal case against Roger Stone after Attorney General Bill Barr intervened in order to reduce the department’s recommended prison sentence for Stone.
The email that Corsi accidentally sent Zelinsky, according to the Post, said that Zelenko had “an FDA approved randomized test of HCQ underway.” Except that’s not the case. After prosecutors expressed their curiosity, Zelenko told Corsi that he really was referring to a study that had been approved by a hospital panel, not the FDA, Corsi said.
“I pointed out to Zelenko, ‘But it’s not registered as an FDA test, and you can’t say it is,’” Corsi said in a recent YouTube video, the Post reported. Corsi told the Post he didn’t believe Zelenko was trying to mislead anyone — but rather that he didn’t know what it meant to have an FDA-approved test.
Zelenko, for his part, has kept his head down. A lawyer working with him told the Post that he hadn’t heard anything from the feds. Zelenko told Corsi on a recent podcast that Zelenko and two German scientists would soon publish data on his use of hydroxychloroquine, the Post noted.
“The difference between me and Dr. Fauci is only about 100,000 dead people,” Zelenko said, referring to the government infectious disease expert who’s cautioned against using the drug.
Corsi said he complied fully with Zelinksy’s request for documents — “everything he asked for,” including emails, text messages, and marketing materials for a website he’s starting to connect people with doctors via telehealth. Zelenko is listed as an unpaid medical adviser for the site, the Post reported.
“I did nothing wrong,” Corsi told the Post. “Zelenko made a mistake. He’s got no case. And we’re following all the rules.”
Zelenko’s advocacy of hydroxychloroquine, which has not been established as an effective COVID-19 treatment, has landed him on Fox News and in touch with the White House.
It’s also led to some embarrassing mix-ups like Corsi’s. Another member of Trump’s circle, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, also acknowledged mucking up the doctor’s name in an interview with The New York Times last month.
Giuliani, an advocate of hydroxychloroquine himself and a fan of the doctor’s, told the Times he had accidentally referred to Zelenko as “Dr. Zelensky,” confusing his name with that of the man he last spent months researching: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 5/1/2020 @ 10:47 amNo this is not what was said early on, and you don’t even really know this walk-back version is accurate. a lot of studies had to shut themselves down because the drug is dangerous. Taking dangerous drugs at the early stages is an even tougher decision than at the later, desperate stage.
Why can’t you just admit Trump was reckless to use the bully pulpit to promote this medicine? If Obama had done the identical thing you’d have a huge problem with it. And you wouldn’t be accusing the families of the dead of murder to cover it up.
Dustin (e5f6c3) — 5/1/2020 @ 11:05 am