Patterico's Pontifications

4/13/2020

Trump Retweets Ignorant Tweet Bearing Hashtag #FireFauci

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:08 am



Even he couldn’t be dumb enough to fire Fauci. Right?

According to the Daily Beast, when Trump wasn’t busy ragetweeting at Mike Wallace, he spent a good chunk of the weekend staying on top of plans for massive antibody testing throughout America calling friends to ask what they think of Fauci:

“What do you think of Fauci?” the president repeatedly worked into his phone conversations over the past few days, the three sources said, as he pulsed his broader network of informal advisers, industry allies, and current staff on their opinions on the news of the day. At one point this weekend, Trump remarked that he’s made Fauci a “star” and that barely anybody would have known who the doctor was were it not for the president putting him front and center in the administration’s coronavirus response, televised press briefings, and media strategy.

“He did not sound bitter about it, I wouldn’t say that,” one of the people familiar with the comments said. “It just sounded like he thought it was worth a reminder.”

On Sunday morning, Fauci appeared on CNN host Jake Tapper’s show and seemed to confirm aspects of a Saturday New York Times story (one that had apparently upset the president) that he and other officials had advocated imposing restrictions and social-distancing guidelines in February, but the Trump administration did not act on their advice until nearly a month later.

“We make a recommendation. Often the recommendation is taken. Sometimes it’s not. But it is what it is. We are where we are right now,” Fauci told the State of the Union anchor. When asked by Tapper whether lives could have been saved if Trump and other top officials had taken and announced those recommendations in February, the doctor responded, “It’s very difficult to go back and say that. I mean, obviously you could logically say that if you had a process that was ongoing and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives. Obviously no one is going to deny that.”

Fauci’s comments did not go over well with certain officials working in the White House or on the president’s campaign, according to multiple aides, or with Trump supporters who are publicly protective of the president and his image. “Dr. Fauci needs to be more careful choosing his words on #Coronavirus, & if he’s going to be critical, make clear what he personally could’ve done better,” Jason Miller, a former senior Trump adviser, posted to Twitter on Sunday.

Jason Miller is a very careful guy — except perhaps around certain establishments in Orlando, according to court documents — and it is very important that Fauci listen to Miller’s advice rather than tell the truth the way he keeps doing.

98 Responses to “Trump Retweets Ignorant Tweet Bearing Hashtag #FireFauci”

  1. A Trump supporter insisting that someone (other than Trump)”needs to be more careful choosing his words” is almost as bizarre as a Trump supporter chastising people for “dishonesty” and “lies about Trump.”

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  2. If he does, the stock markets will tank (even more) as wiill his poll numbers. Something like that could even wake up the Republicans in Congress.

    RipMurdock (9f866e)

  3. The only thing that will move republicans in Congress a large electoral loss. Otherwise they will continue to support President Trump in his mission to save America get public acclaim and adoration.

    Time123 (d54166)

  4. Yeah, Trump’s out of control! The walls are closing in! We got him now! He’s fighting withe Doctors, he’ll fire them all!

    OK, its amazing how the DNC_press, liberal/left pundits and Never trumpers get all that one tweet that reads: Fake News. I banned China long before people spoke up” A

    And here’s another tweet:
    The @nytimes story is a Fake, just like the “paper” itself. I was criticized for moving too fast when I issued the China Ban, long before most others wanted to do so. @SecAzar told me nothing until later, and Peter Navarro memo was same as Ban (see his statements). Fake News!

    Yeah, but keep IMAGINING that Trump and Dr. Fauci are fighting. You Got Trump now!

    rcocean (1a839e)

  5. #4 — People aren’t just making a mountain out of “one tweet.”
    They’ve seen a clear pattern, over many years, of Trump demanding sycophantic adoration, insisting that everything he does is perfect and brilliant, being enraged by criticism, lashing out vindictively at those who expose his weaknesses or otherwise hurt his fragile ego, and generally being a petulant, self-serving, dishonest cretin.

    And some people, on the other hand, think the real problem is that other people have noticed what is obvious about Trump and aren’t pretending not to see it.

    Fauci said he needs to walk a fine line between telling the truth and pleasing Donald Trump. If that statement bothered Trump fans in any way, most likely it was only because they wondered why anyone would ever choose the former over the latter.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  6. OK, its amazing how the DNC_press, liberal/left pundits and Never trumpers get all that one tweet that reads: Fake News. I banned China long before people spoke up” A

    That ban that had only tens of thousands of people flying to/from China, after the “ban”?

    Also, you’re grouping of people seems to include most Americans.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  7. At one point this weekend, Trump remarked that he’s made Fauci a “star” and that barely anybody would have known who the doctor was were it not for the president putting him front and center in the administration’s coronavirus response, televised press briefings, and media strategy.

    Well, maybe to many people now, but more than a generation ago he was criticized for much of the same thing: (they finally got him to relent somewhat.)

    https://www.thebodypro.com/article/tony-fauci-md-coronavirus

    It was all a bit amusing to watch for the handful of veteran AIDS activists who have a long history with Fauci, one that went from frustrated and adversarial to friendly and collaborative in the space of only a few short years in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

    In that time, Fauci, simultaneously sitting down amiably with some ACT UP activists while parrying more belligerent public protests from their comrades, opened himself up to activist recommendations. Most notably, he dramatically loosened HIV-drug clinical trial requirements so that a far greater number of desperate patients could try new compounds (an approach called “parallel tracking”), expanded research on HIV/AIDS and its treatment in underrepresented women and/or people of color, and gave activists and people living with HIV seats at the table of the planning committee of the AIDS Clinical Trials Group (ACTG).

    …..However, some ACT UP veterans have less rapturous memories of Fauci. “I would say that at the beginning of his encounters with us, he was a pretty typical bureaucrat, making excuses for the slow pace of drug investigations and approval,” says Ann Northrop, adding, “I still give him credit for turning into someone who listened more to the activist point of view and eventually became more of an ally.”

    Maxine Wolfe, who worked primarily on ACT UP’s women’s committee, is not as measured. She recalls activists pressuring the National Institutes of Health (NIH, of which NIAID is a part) to hold a women and AIDS conference in 1990. “They wanted it to be all government people, and we set it up so it wasn’t,” she recalls. “The audience was mostly women, many living with HIV, and those who worked with women. Fauci gets up on a stage and says to about 1,600 of us, ‘I really don’t know anything about women and AIDS, but I’m going to talk to you about the virus and how it operates.’ And one of the women living with HIV grabbed the mic that had been set up in the audience for questions and said, ‘I don’t have a degree in anything but street-logy, but I don’t need an AIDS 101. I need to know what you’re going to do about women and AIDS.’

    “Then,” continues Wolfe, “someone puts in Fauci’s face a petition of what was needed,” including expanding the definition of AIDS to include women-specific complications of AIDS and putting women in trials. “He was very arrogant and believed he had all the answers and did not admit [to being wrong or ignorant about] one thing.”

    Sammy Finkelman (2178a8)

  8. Trump:

    I banned China long before people spoke up.

    This was more punitive and hostile than it was a medically directed approach. And it worked mostly by citizenship and not by connection with the disease, and except in a few cases, like American avacees from Wuhan, there was no follow-up.

    And that was all he did.

    The federal government was allowed to botch the ability to get enough tests ready, without which you could do nothing much.

    Now the WHO was saying don’t interfere with international travel because that’s what China wanted.

    Sammy Finkelman (2178a8)

  9. RC, thank you for providing an illustration of my point.

    Time123 (d54166)

  10. Gee, Sammy, some activists had nasty things to say about Fauci.

    I’m just gobsmacked…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  11. Hit post too fast, full comment should have been.

    RC, thank you for providing an illustration of my point that there are Trump supporters that will filter all critique of Trump through a lens of unfair persecution and dismiss it. Given that these are the activist base of the GOP most members of congress will support Trump rather than risk a primary fight.

    Time123 (d54166)

  12. 0. Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/13/2020 @ 10:13 am

    Gee, Sammy, some activists had nasty things to say about Fauci.

    He was wrong everywhere, of course.

    But the anti-AIDS people were more activist than people interested in other diseases.

    Still, it took them several years to get Fauci to modify what he said. They were mostly interested in themselves – they didn’t try to overturn general policy toward medical innovations. Maybe they didn’t even realize this was a generalized problem that intensified and intensified after 1962.

    A problem with Fauci and with everyone else in the government bureaucracy. So many stupid (precautionary) things were done. And still didn’t prevent some bad approvals.

    Or maybe the AIDS activists hoped that if they limited themselves to their disease, it would be easier to get what they wanted..

    The truth is, the better drugs fr AIDS were probably delayed about ten years, from the mid-1980s till 1995.

    But Dr. Fauci should not be fired or removed from the coronavirus task force. For the same reason they justify executive privilege. People must not be deterred from offering advice.

    Sammy Finkelman (2178a8)

  13. RC, thank you for providing an illustration of my point that there are Trump supporters that will filter all critique of Trump through a lens of unfair persecution and dismiss it. Given that these are the activist base of the GOP most members of congress will support Trump rather than risk a primary fight.

    Time123 (d54166) — 4/13/2020 @ 10:13 am

    That’s generally because those who are constantly critical of Trump do it with a partisan filter and try and reshape all information to fit their preferred narrative. Look no further than how the media focused on impeachment and dismissed the virus, then when Trump started restricting travel attacked him as xenophobic and foolish.

    No one can say with a straight face that if Trump tried to enact restrictions on the American public in January or February, he wouldn’t have been blasted and accused of using the virus to enact his “fascist desires.”

    NJRob (4d595c)

  14. That Trump has abandoned Fox for the nearly illiterate and certainly innumerate OANN is distressing. Not unexpected, just distressing.

    Suggestion: people get a second vote for finishing high school.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  15. 11… if Americans hadn’t witnessed the lengths to which the MSM, Trump-hating Democrats and NeverTrump went these last 3.5 years to remove the POTUS, I think there’d be more interest in and engagement with people who hold these opinions.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  16. No one can say with a straight face that if Trump tried to…

    Nonsense. A half decent communicator could make a clear and compelling case to the American people that a disease threatened and a response had to be made.

    It would take some political capital that T-rump never had or has burned down in the bonfire of his vanity.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  17. He should fire Fauci and replace him with Jenny McCarthy! This would get him praise from the all-important idiot vote.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  18. I’m “selling” on Fauci…the Bulls just fired longtime embattled GM Gar Forman…its a trade-off situation, like the Cubs winning the WS /Trump elected Potus in the same week and Ofc. Jason Van Dyke guilty/ Brett Kavanaugh confirmed the same weekend.

    urbanleftbehind (7d14c3)

  19. The only thing that will move republicans in Congress a large electoral loss.

    Yes, but considering what happened in 2009-10 after just such an event, I’m not keen on that either. Frying pan is preferable to fire. Besides, if Trump loses in 2020, what makes you think his base won’t renominate him in 2024?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  20. Our media – and some in the medical establishment – can’t even side with the USA when the issue of the WHO’s documented malfeasance in giving cover to the ChiComs on their early stage handling of the Wuhan coronavirus came up. The media casts it as the head of the WHO arguing with Orange Man Bad, no judgements made.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  21. Yeah, but keep IMAGINING that Trump and Dr. Fauci are fighting. You Got Trump now!

    And if he DOES fire Fauci, his base will applaud it and claim they had been against Fauci since the beginning.

    I don’t know how Pence stands it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  22. However, some ACT UP veterans have less rapturous memories of Fauci.

    I imagine there are some Maoists who are upset with Bernie, too. Not once has Bernie talked about the necessity for mass liquidation!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  23. I bet the medicos don’t hang on the same sources for gospel as do you.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  24. This was more punitive and hostile than it was a medically directed approach.

    Coincidentally, the mass outbreak of Covid-19 here was delayed several weeks as a result. I suspect that the FIRST thing that will happen after credible reports of the next Chinese outbreak will be a world-wide closure of all air travel from China, or by non-citizens who have recently been in China (with citizens quarantined on their return on special transport).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  25. Since Trump obsessively watches polling, he probably doesn’t like these numbers.

    April 8, 2020 – Fauci, Governors Get Highest Marks For Response To Coronavirus, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Majority Say Trump’s Response Not Aggressive Enough
    As the number of coronavirus cases spreads throughout the country, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, earns the highest approval rating for his handling of the response to the coronavirus, according to a Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pea-ack) University national poll released today. He is closely followed by state governors, but President Trump and Congress don’t fare quite as well on their handling of the response to the coronavirus:

    Dr. Anthony Fauci: 78 percent approve, 7 percent disapprove;
    “Your state’s governor”: 74 percent approve, 24 percent disapprove;
    New York Governor Andrew Cuomo: 59 percent approve, 17 percent disapprove;
    President Trump: 46 percent approve, 51 percent disapprove;
    Congress: 44 percent approve, 46 percent disapprove.

    When it comes to President Trump’s response to the coronavirus, 55 percent of registered voters say that he has not acted aggressively enough, while 41 percent say his response has been about right and 2 percent say he’s been too aggressive.

    “In a country gripped by crisis and divided by partisanship, public opinion is united when it comes to Dr. Anthony Fauci. Nearly 8 in 10 voters give him a resounding thumbs up for the job he’s doing responding to the COVID-19 pandemic. That’s not the case for President Trump. More voters disapprove of his response than approve. Separately, they say he hasn’t acted aggressively enough in his response,” said Quinnipiac University Polling Analyst Mary Snow.

    A plurality of voters gives the president a failing grade on the way he has communicated information about the coronavirus to the American people:

    25 percent give Trump an A;
    17 percent give him a B;
    14 percent give him a C;
    12 percent give him a D;
    31 percent give him an F.

    THE CORONAVIRUS CRISIS

    More than 8 out of 10 registered voters, 85 percent, say they are either very (50 percent) or somewhat (35 percent) concerned they or someone they know will be infected with the coronavirus, a spike of 31 percentage points from early March. However, the concern goes beyond infections. Three-quarters of voters say they are either very concerned (39 percent) or somewhat concerned (36 percent) that they or someone in their family will need to be hospitalized because of the coronavirus.

    “While overall concerns about coronavirus infections have jumped dramatically in the past month, the level of concern depends on political party. Democrats lead the way in being ‘very concerned,’ almost twice the number of Republicans. Independents are in the middle,” added Snow.

    Seven out of ten voters, 70 percent, say that the coronavirus crisis in the United States is getting worse, while 20 percent say it is staying the same and only 8 percent see it getting better. And voters are not expecting the crisis to end any time soon: 63 percent say they expect the coronavirus crisis will be over in a few months, 23 percent say more than a year, and only 10 percent say a few weeks. Almost two thirds of voters, 64 percent, say their daily life has changed in a major way since the coronavirus crisis hit the U.S., while 26 percent say it has changed in a minor way and 10 percent say it hasn’t changed much. ……..

    RipMurdock (9f866e)

  26. >A Trump supporter insisting that someone (other than Trump)”needs to be more careful choosing his words” is almost as bizarre as a Trump supporter chastising people for “dishonesty” and “lies about Trump.”

    Nah, that’s not bizarre at all.

    Part of how Trump maintains support is by deflecting criticism by making the critics appear to be the problem. That’s been clearly true throughout his public life, and it works particularly well in contemporary society because we’re so deeply tribally polarized that *of course* the members of the other tribe are no-good liars.

    aphrael (7962af)

  27. > Frying pan is preferable to fire

    i’m not sure it’s clear which is which.

    aphrael (7962af)

  28. Probably the most damning thing about Trump is his inability to rally most Americans in a time of crisis. Even the feckless Jimmy Carter had huge popularity numbers during the hostage crisis (up until the Desert One frack-up).

    Papa Bush (who was defeated for re-election) had appoveal of 88% (!) during Desert Storm and averaged over 60% in his term of office. W was at 81% after 9/11 and his average was 63% during his first term (collapsing badly in his second).

    Heck, NIXON was at or above 50% almost all of the time until the Watergate scandal started to have teeth.

    But Trump has spent neearly his whole term in the opinion cellar and remains there during a crisis which so far he has failed to inspire. You can say that “it’s the evil MSM” but they hated W, too and he had 4 our of 5 Americans approving of him in a crisis no bigger than the one we have now (and in many ways less important).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  29. I like Dr. Fauci and Donald Trump.

    We bought honey-baked hams, my wife made some delicious side dishes and we carefully delivered Easter dinners to our nurse DIL and son and our nurse daughter and her boyfriend.

    We are taking an interest in/making sure our elderly neighbors are not in need of anything… paying our mortgage and other bills ahead of time, donating to local food banks, buying to-go meals from local restaurants, and taking time to thank all of those workers we often take for granted who are serving the community during this unfortunate situation.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  30. Part of how Trump maintains support is by deflecting criticism by making the critics appear to be the problem.

    In some ways Trump is a political genius. He has discovered (or at least been willing to use):

    * The average IQ is 100 and that means that many many people are tired of all those people treating them as if they were stupid. So he uses speeches with simple ideas and short words.

    * Naive cynicism is rampant. Many people believe their misfortunes are due to other people getting over on them (and they are sometimes right). So he (and Bernie, too) tells them he’ll fight against their hidden foes.

    * Anger at government and it’s coercion is rampant, so Trump promises to “show them who’s boss.” Every time he fires someone, even if it is someone he appointed, he makes the case that they were really part of the Deep State that is the source of all problems.

    Luckily, Trump is clumsy and transparent as all Hell in doing this, so he never adds to his base. But he does keep them riled up. Perhaps that will be enough. I guess I should be glad he’s incompetent or we’d be looking at a new Huey Long.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  31. >no bigger than the one we have now

    this is the biggest public health crisis since the spanish flu and the biggest economic crisis since the great depression.

    the fact that we haven’t been able to come together as a people and are still bickering with each other is insane to me.

    maybe it’s too soon? in the US the crisis is barely forty five days old.

    aphrael (7962af)

  32. That is not to say that populism doesn’t have it’s place in a democracy. It is the major corrective force to a smug and self-satisfied Establishment. Usually the lesson isn’t this painful though.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  33. the fact that we haven’t been able to come together as a people and are still bickering with each other is insane to me.

    And ANY competent President would have had little problem leading people at a time like this. Bill Clinton must be SHDH every time he sees Trump tweet. Trump doesn’t even see this as a problem though.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  34. and making it even worse, *biden* doesn’t have the skills to lead us, either. he might have, once, but those days are gone.

    aphrael (7962af)

  35. i’m honestly starting to wonder if this is laying the seeds for the dissolution of the republic.

    aphrael (7962af)

  36. Trump says he’ll decide on easing guidelines, not governors
    President Donald Trump asserted Monday that he is the ultimate decision-maker for determining how and when to reopen the coronavirus-stricken country, though it is unclear what authority he has to overrule the states.

    While Trump, who is anxious to put the crisis behind him, has issued federal social distancing recommendations, it has been governors and local leaders who have instituted mandatory restrictions, including shuttering schools and ordering the closure of non-essential businesses.

    The White House did not immediately respond to questions about what authority they believe the president might have to overrule local orders. Under the Constitution, public health and safety is primarily the domain of state and local officials. And many of those leaders have expressed concern that Trump’s plan to try to return to normal as soon as the end of the month will cost lives and extend the duration of the outbreak.

    Though he abandoned his once-held goal of rolling back regulations by Easter Sunday, Trump has been itching to reopen a battered economy that has plummeted as businesses have shuttered, leaving millions of people out of work and struggling to obtain basic commodities.

    Taking to Twitter on Monday, Trump said some are “saying that it is the Governors decision to open up the states, not that of the President of the United States & the Federal Government. Let it be fully understood that this is incorrect…it is the decision of the President, and for many good reasons.”

    He added, “With that being said, the Administration and I are working closely with the Governors, and this will continue. A decision by me, in conjunction with the Governors and input from others, will be made shortly!”
    …..
    Trump’s claim that he could force governors to reopen their states also represents a drastic shift in tone. For weeks now, Trump has argued that states, not the federal government, should lead the response to the crisis. And he has refused to publicly pressure states to enact stay-at-home restrictions, citing his belief in local control of government.
    ……..

    RipMurdock (9f866e)

  37. looks like we’ll have a “fun” court fight on our hands shortly.

    aphrael (7962af)

  38. “This media chatter is ridiculous – President Trump is not firing Dr. Fauci,” White House spokesperson Hogan Gidley said on Monday afternoon.

    Well, that settles that.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  39. So it seems obvious the Chinese seeded the world with this virus. After the world comes to grips with this, what must be done re: China?

    Colonel Haiku (27c440)

  40. So it seems obvious the Chinese seeded the world with this virus.

    Obvious? Nope.

    Possible though improbable? Sure.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  41. “Obvious” to some internet nutjobs who hide behind the plausible deniability of verbs like “seeded,” maybe. To normal people, a pandemic began in China and spread to the rest of the world by normal means.

    Leviticus (cdf0fe)

  42. Obvious? Nope.

    Possible though improbable? Sure.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 4/13/2020 @ 12:28 pm

    The chinese communist regime thanks you for your in-kind contribution.

    What does it say about people when they cannot even speak obvious truths about where the virus first rampaged and that the Chinese government deliberately covered up and hid its effects from the world till it was too late.

    NJRob (d0e1ba)

  43. our president mr donald whose mouth only looks a little bit like a butthole but not that much has an article two where he has the right to do whatever he wants as president

    that includes killing us all and if some slimy democrats and mitt romney hate it that proves its the right thing to do

    Dave (1bb933)

  44. Rep. Andy Biggs,Biggs, who heads the House Freedom Caucus, tells Dr. Fauci to “move along”:

    “I think it’s time … for Dr. Fauci to move along,” Biggs said in an interview on Monday with KFYI-AM (550). “I mean, he shouldn’t have a seat at the table. He shouldn’t be making decisions that are basically impacting this country in a way that we haven’t even considered.

    “I mean, he has said he has not considered economic or societal or social fallout for his remedy for the epidemic. And if that’s the case, I think he gets some credit for where we stand today, but I think it’s time for him to move on.”

    Dana (0feb77)

  45. our president mr donald whose mouth only looks a little bit like a butthole but not that much has an article two where he has the right to do whatever he wants as president

    that includes killing us all and if some slimy democrats and mitt romney hate it that proves its the right thing to do

    Dave (1bb933) — 4/13/2020 @ 12:44 pm

    Once again showing why we cannot come together as a people like we have in past times of crisis. Get some help when you are allowed outside again.

    NJRob (d0e1ba)

  46. Once again showing why we cannot come together as a people like we have in past times of crisis. Get some help when you are allowed outside again.

    Sure we can come together. Get Mike Pence and the rest of the cabinet to flush this turd. Problem probably not solved, some dead enders will stay on the Trump train, but for the sane, it will help, and for the idiots, they’ll b_*ch and moan some more, but they’ll still take advantage of the benefits.

    We can wait till November when Joe Biden is elected while taking a nap during the interim, by 15 points and drags the senate with him, again, while he’s asleep. Or maybe, salvage the senate in the election at least.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  47. Navarro Calls Medical Experts ‘Tone Deaf’ Over Coronavirus Shutdown

    As the White House debates when and how to reopen the economy, one emerging argument is that an extended shutdown could pose a more dire long-term health threat to the United States than the coronavirus itself.

    Peter Navarro, the White House trade adviser who is now coordinating the country’s medical supply chain, is warning that a prolonged shutdown of nonessential commerce could result in a broad range of negative health effects that he contends medical experts are ignoring in their efforts to flatten the curve of coronavirus cases.

    “It’s disappointing that so many of the medical experts and pundits pontificating in the press appear tone deaf to the very significant losses of life and blows to American families that may result from an extended economic shutdown,” Mr. Navarro said in an interview with The New York Times.

    “Instead, they piously preen on their soap boxes speaking only half of the medical truth without reference or regard for the other half of the equation,” he said, “which is the very real mortal dangers associated with the closure of the economy for an extended period.”
    …..
    He said the U.S. economy faced a “China shock” that could eclipse what it experienced in the early 2000s, after China’s entry into the World Trade Organization. Mr. Navarro points to the research of David H. Autor, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology economist whose 2017 paper found a relationship between the surge of Chinese exports to the United States two decades ago with lost American manufacturing jobs and a variety of grim health outcomes.

    “The unfair China trade shock that hit so many of America’s communities in the 2000s not only destroyed over five million manufacturing jobs and 70,000 factories; it killed tens of thousands of Americans,” Mr. Navarro said.

    “As numerous academic studies have documented, economic shocks like China’s trade shock can increase mortality rates associated with suicide, drug overdoses, alcohol poisoning, liver disease, lung cancer, poor diet and cigarettes,” he said, “while destroying families through higher rates of single-parent households, child poverty, and divorce and lower rates of fertility and marriage.”
    ……
    While scientists continue to work on a vaccine, Mr. Navarro said the economy could still reopen without one. Expansive testing for the virus, as well as testing for antibodies that indicate who might have immunity and can return to work, will be key to reopening the economy, he said.

    Despite the development of new rapid tests, the ability to conduct nationwide testing for the virus or for antibodies and the ability to conduct large-scale contact tracing remains a longer-term goal.

    Mr. Trump’s advisers have been targeting early May for a gradual reopening of the economy that would focus on regions where the virus is less concentrated and could ramp up as testing capacity increases. However, reopening the economy too soon poses other unpredictable risks. If a second wave of the virus occurs, the economy would most likely have to be shuttered again, meaning even more severe economic pain.

    In fact, Mr. Autor, the economist whose work Mr. Navarro cited, expressed precisely that concern.

    “We do find that prolonged economic distress contributes to increased male mortality, but we fear that Peter Navarro is drawing the wrong conclusion,” he said in an email.

    “Continued economic disruption from repeated pandemic shocks and the associated economic uncertainty — which is likely what opening the economy too soon would deliver — seems more likely to deliver higher despair-induced mortality than the V-shaped recession we are hoping to engineer by stemming the pandemic now.”

    Everyone keeps repeating about the need “to conduct nationwide testing for the virus or for antibodies and the ability to conduct large-scale contact tracing” before re-opening the economy but no one advocating a re-open has a plan to do so.

    RipMurdock (d2a2a8)

  48. It’s remarkable, NJ Rob, to read many of the comments here.

    Comments from people who should know better.

    Colonel Haiku (27c440)

  49. Everyone keeps repeating about the need “to conduct nationwide testing for the virus or for antibodies and the ability to conduct large-scale contact tracing” before re-opening the economy but no one advocating a re-open has a plan to do so.

    And Navarro is the man on the spot to manage the supply chain to get that accomplished, but like most things with this response, he doesn’t even talk a good game. In fact, he’s describing hockey, while we’re playing basketball.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  50. It’s remarkable, NJ Rob, to read many of the comments here.

    Comments from people who should know better.

    Says the pot to the kettle.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  51. Keep spreading teh H8, klink.

    Colonel Haiku (27c440)

  52. > Everyone keeps repeating about the need “to conduct nationwide testing for the virus or for antibodies and the ability to conduct large-scale contact tracing” before re-opening the economy but no one advocating a re-open has a plan to do so.

    which is why everyone opposed to a re-open at this time is absolutely terrified by what we’re hearing.

    aphrael (7962af)

  53. attn moderators, i apparently have a comment stuck in moderation. can you fish it out and/or tell me what got it moderated in the first place, please?

    aphrael (7962af)

  54. What does it say about people when they cannot even speak obvious truths about where the virus first rampaged and that the Chinese government deliberately covered up and hid its effects from the world till it was too late.

    That’s not “seeded”.
    “Seeded” implies the Chinese intentionally allowed the virus to spread outside China: that they wanted the pandemic. Something for which there is no evidence of any kind.

    If that’s not what you mean, then please pick a better word.

    Kishnevi (27beb6)

  55. The chinese communist regime thanks you for your in-kind contribution.

    OH, HELL no…!!! They pay me YYYYUGE pallets of cash to keep an open mind and a healthy skepticism. ZOMG, it’s a world-wide conspiracy. I get paid by the Brits, the Germans, the Japanese, the Russkies…even Iceland pays a little!

    Then there’s the Rosicrucians and the Build-a-better-burgers and the Stone Cutters. THOSE guys REALLY have the bucks and know how to show gratitude!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  56. 35, question asked…maybe this is the 2nd answer, following Newsome’s boast last week:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/cuomo-governors-coordinated-regional-effort-to-reopen-amid-coronavirus

    urbanleftbehind (7d14c3)

  57. Trump thrives on this stuff. By starting a debate on whether he has The Authority, we forget that he is The F***up; by talking about what a joke of a so-called President he is today, we forget what a joke of a so-called President he has been the past three years.

    nk (1d9030)

  58. @54

    Do we really have to get into debates about what “seeded” means?

    I so far see no evidence that the Chinese deliberately created or spread the virus.

    There is plenty of evidence that (a) China deliberately suppressed and lied about the corona virus for several months which (b) allowed it to spread to other parts of the world (through normal travel and commerce), causing a worldwide crisis and thousands of deaths. This was reckless disregard of the probability that their actions would endanger the lives of million around the world.

    In any normal society, this would be considered criminal. The fact that this was not their intended goal is not an excuse.

    As I once posted, if a school zone has a 25 mph speed limit to protect children, and if someone who is late to a business meeting takes a shortcut there, drives 85 mph, and ends up killing a child, that person is a criminal and deserves serious jail time. True, he did not intend or want the death, but his complete disregard of basic humanity should earn him serious jail time.

    The Chinese govt. is the moral equivalent of that driver at 85 mph. In my book, it is a criminal regime.

    Bored Lawyer (56c962)

  59. There is plenty of evidence that (a) China deliberately suppressed and lied about the corona virus for several months

    No there isn’t.

    They isolated the virus around January 1. They reported it to the world on December 31. They announced that it could spread between people on January 20.

    There is *at most* a three week period of confusion and/or suppression of that appears to have occurred at the local level.

    Dave (1bb933)

  60. It was not China’s responsibility to keep President Trump’s Virus out of the United States.
    It was the so-called President Trump’s.
    He failed.
    Because he’s a f***up.
    A criminal f***up.
    All fifty states and 3,000 or so counties should indict him for murder.
    Along with all the Representatives and Senators who voted against impeachment and removal.

    nk (1d9030)

  61. Her sick Mexican husband was laying on his death bed and only had hours to live. He suddenly smelled tamales, which he loved more than any other food… especially his querida Chita’s tamales, which were known throughout Albuquerque, New Mexico as “lo mejor de lo mejor”.

    With every last bit of energy left in his mind and body, the terminally ill husband pulled himself out of bed, crawled across the floor, made his way down the hall and into the kitchen, where his wife was removing the fresh batch of tamales from the stove top.

    As he reached for one of the freshly made tamales, his corazon Chita smacked him on the back of his head with a wooden spoon. “Leave them alone, pendejo!”, she yelled, “they’re for the funeral!”

    Colonel Haiku (27c440)

  62. The Chinese have made inroads into California’s higher education system. Very sad.

    Colonel Haiku (27c440)

  63. BL, I mostly agree with you. But it was more a period of several weeks, not months. And of course we have no idea of how inaccurate the current reports from China are. We merely find it reasonable to assume they are inaccurate.

    Meanwhile, I’ll park this link here about the SBA PPP program.

    Kishnevi (27beb6)

  64. How many times have we seen Never trumpers and democrats quoting MSM-DNC articles based on anonymous sources about how Trump is doing/did this or saying/said that? Always -or at least 92% of the time – they are harmful to trump and almost always turn out to be wrong, misleading, exaggerated, or all three.

    “Without evidence” should be used to describe any “fact” based on anonymous sources about Trump from the NYT/Wapo, etc. They simply have NO track record of honesty when it comes to the President. Zero. They can’t be trusted when it comes to Trump or Republicans. Unless its the Weld/Romney type.

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  65. > for several month

    how is that even remotely plausible? phylogenetic analysis says this thing jumped to humans in mid november. three day doubling says we have at most 16K cases worldwide by new year’s eve.

    i buy that china was lying for a couple weeks, although i think that was more due to confusion and uncertainty than it was to a deliberate scheme. but how can you get to months?

    i mean, honestly, you must have *incredible awe* of their management skills if you think they’re aware of everything going on involving sixteen thousand people in a country of more than one billion.

    aphrael (7962af)

  66. Reading the NYT or the WaPo is like reading Pravada in the Old USSR, you know you’re being lied to and you need to do some analysis to find any truth

    rcocean (2e1c02)

  67. Apparently, Taiwan sent an email in December to the WHO warning them about the occurrence of a new disease in China and asking for more information. That information being investigated that early in the game could have saved tens of thousands of lives. Instead, Taiwan was ignored.

    Remember, by mid-January, despite these warnings, the WHO was still insisting that there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission. They hadn’t pushed China or sounded the alarm at all, instead letting the communist nation essentially write the press releases being put out. Even when it became clear China had lied and covered up the outbreak, the WHO still accepted their information as fact, something they are continuing to do to this day.

    https://www.redstate.com/bonchie/2020/04/13/taiwan-releases-letter-showing-they-warned-the-who-is-december-were-ignored/

    Colonel Haiku (27c440)

  68. Reading the NYT or the WaPo is like reading Pravada in the Old USSR, you know you’re being lied to and you need to do some analysis to find any truth

    Thank god for OANN.

    Dave (1bb933)

  69. Seeded” implies the Chinese intentionally allowed the virus to spread outside China: that they wanted the pandemic. Something for which there is no evidence of any kind.

    If that’s not what you mean, then please pick a better word.

    Kishnevi (27beb6) — 4/13/2020 @ 1:20 pm

    They intentionally covered it up and allowed their people to travel globally.

    NJRob (78c5cc)

  70. They simply have NO track record of honesty when it comes to the President.

    Seeing as the President himself has no track record of honesty….

    Kishnevi (27beb6)

  71. They intentionally covered it up and allowed their people to travel globally.

    I agree with that. But using the word “seeded” implies they planned for all this to happen.

    Kishnevi (27beb6)

  72. It’s all relative, eh, Kishinev?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  73. Seeing as the President himself has no track record of honesty….

    I’ll take the honesty of a 13 year old boy at Halloween over Trump any day, and twice on Sunday, or 200 times on Monday, 3,000…

    Colonel Klink (Red) (9878f6)

  74. That’s what Xi said…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  75. Think back to those days in December and January when COVID-19 was spreading, while China was lying and covering up, and the Democrats were trying to impeach Trump.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  76. Think back to those days in December and January when COVID-19 was spreading, while China was lying and covering up, and the Democrats were trying to impeach Trump.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/13/2020 @ 2:53 pm

    True, life would be better if Trump hadn’t abused his power to extort Ukraine into announcing an investigation of a political rival.

    Time123 (d54166)

  77. He could have been ignoring it and assuring us it would magically disappear *weeks* earlier!

    Dave (1bb933)

  78. They intentionally covered it up and allowed their people to travel globally.

    But enough about the T-rump administration….

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  79. 58. Bored Lawyer (56c962) — 4/13/2020 @ 1:58 pm

    There is plenty of evidence that (a) China deliberately suppressed and lied about the corona virus for several months

    They censored it…

    The first recognxed case (in some scientific or medical report) is November 17 and it clearly wasn’t the very first.

    At the end of December some group that discovered the new virus was ordered not to publish and to destroy their samples.

    They reported the disease Dec 31 (maybe because some doctors were trying to get the news of a serious epidemic out and attention brought to it.

    Now some of the early lying has been blamed on the city and provincial government semi-left-on-their-own despots. That they wanted to hide it from the central authorities because they would lose their jobs maybe. But the central authorities wanted to hide things too.

    While it was reported to the WHO on Dec 31, China claimed it was not transmissible human to human as late as January 20 I think. The WHO was saying that Jan 14. They were attributing it all to animals from the live animal market in Wuhan.They corrupted the World Health Organization.

    Although it’s more accurate to say they corrupted people who work there. It’s cheaper.

    From approximately January 20 through about February 15 they mostly told the truth, and then they went back to be back to lying again, and certainly censoring.

    They didn’t want restrictions on travel from China – Chinese diplomats were pushing hard against it.

    Now they claim to have wiped it out in China, just about.

    Sammy Finkelman (2178a8)

  80. As for China intentionally inflicting the virus on the world, I believe that a version of Hanlon’s Razor applies. “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.”

    norcal (a5428a)

  81. Besides, China wants to keep on getting rich. It can’t do that if there’s a worldwide depression.

    norcal (a5428a)

  82. 82. norcal (a5428a) — 4/13/2020 @ 3:19 pm

    , China wants to keep on getting rich. It can’t do that if there’s a worldwide depression.

    It took them a while to realize that there could be..

    Sammy Finkelman (2178a8)

  83. 82… China would be delighted to see a substantially weakened USA.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  84. 83

    Yes, Sammy, which bolsters my belief that the virus came about naturally, not as a result of some plot.

    norcal (a5428a)

  85. 84

    They would, but not if they are weakened in the process.

    norcal (a5428a)

  86. Hanlon’s razor is the best razor.

    aphrael (7962af)

  87. 86… China doesn’t care so much about the short-term benefits or disadvantages. They think long-term.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  88. i’m honestly starting to wonder if this is laying the seeds for the dissolution of the republic.

    If Trump is re-elected, I expect to see a serious attempt at secession on the west coast. We are already seeing the region’s governors working out how to bypass Trump. This would be complicated by internal opposition from the non-urban parts of the three states. Since less that 10% of WA and OR is urban, it would be difficult for them to secede without an armed struggle. CA’s coast, from L.A. up to Mendicino and inland a bit could form a viable country though. But not if they tried to take Red California with them.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  89. looks like we’ll have a “fun” court fight on our hands shortly.

    Since the constitution bans interstate pacts, and the re-start needs to have a national, or at least regional, plan, I really don’t see the courts refusing federal control. Even if the plan is stupid.

    There are plenty of precedents dealing with national control of the economy, and plenty of actual constitution to hang a decision on. Raich and Wickard come to mind. Congress has passed enough emergency powers bills, one of them must bear.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  90. Once again showing why we cannot come together as a people like we have in past times of crisis.

    If Bernie Sanders was president, and he had AOC as his science advisor, and they wer fighting Covid-19 with cupping and pyramid power, we’d be reminded every day how unpatriotic it was to criticize the government’s response.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  91. Besides, China wants to keep on getting rich. It can’t do that if there’s a worldwide depression.

    They really only have to be richer than.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  92. Today Fauci at the White House coronovirus press conference said something like that the first time he proposed something, Trump listened.

    Sammy Finkelman (ba30b8)

  93. 85. norcal (a5428a) — 4/13/2020 @ 3:25 pm

    which bolsters my belief that the virus came about naturally, not as a result of some plot.

    Except they may know a bit more as to exactly where it came from. Not that food market. But it’s natural, Who could even invent it?

    Even the idea that there was a biological research facility like Plum Island or Ft Detrick in Maryland ch from which a previously collected wild virus escaped is not very plausible.

    It would have alarmed may people in China. Some of this would have temporarily escaped censorship, and United States intelligence agencies (however limited they may be) also didn’t pick up anything like that. And some Chinese officials would have reacted faster if somebody knew immediately this was dangerous, even if secretly.

    Sammy Finkelman (ba30b8)

  94. Some factories in China opened up, fulfilled their ack orders, and had to cut back agai. They can’t even sell much to people in China.

    Of course the government has other interests besides money, but they can’t want (just yet anyway) a worldwide depression. And something like that might even topple Xi – some dictators have been removed by the committee which supposedly appointed them: Mussolini in Italy in 1943 by the Fascist Grand Council ad Nikita Khrushchev in the USSR by the Politburo (the problem probably was that he was threatening to abolish the Soviet Academy of sciences – some Politburo members like Kosygin had put their children in that field – that was enough to put together that coup.

    And think also of the Greek junta member, Dimitris Ioannidis, who, in 1973 overthrew Georgios Papadopoulos the leader of the original junta that took over Greece in 1967 – and later bungled things so badly with Cyprus in 1974 that the whole junta had to resign in the “coup of the generals.”

    Ioannidis was sent to prison and was not even released at he age of 84 ad eventually doed imprisoned. Papadopoulos too but he could have gotten out by admitting wrongdoing.

    May the same, and worse, happen to Xi Jingpin.

    Sammy Finkelman (ba30b8)

  95. Since the constitution bans interstate pacts

    As I’m sure we’ve been over before, long-established case law holds that most agreements between states are constitutional, unless they purport to usurp the federal government’s enumerated powers.

    Dave (1bb933)

  96. 20. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/13/2020 @ 10:53 am

    giving cover to the ChiComs on their early stage handling of the Wuhan coronavirus came up. The media casts it as the head of the WHO arguing with Orange Man Bad, no judgements made.

    You know in China, what is censored, is also censored

    One result is that not all people know what not to write.

    There’s a lot of one stuff that isn’t pre-cleared, just removed later.

    so now we have two indications of what is not to be written about the virus. You still have to read between the lines. They’re hiding mainly the fact of top level government review/

    https://nypost.com/2020/04/13/chinese-universities-delete-censorship-notices-for-new-coronavirus-research/

    An April 5 notice posted by the China University of Geosciences (Wuhan) said a university academic committee would review research into the origin of the virus “with an emphasis on checking the accuracy of the thesis, as well as whether it is suitable for publication” before turning it over to the authorities to review.

    “When the checks have been completed, the school should report to the Ministry of Science and Technology, and it should only be published after it has [also] been checked by MOST,” the notice said.

    An April 9 notice posted by Fudan University in Shanghai said that, according to the central government’s State Council, “Papers related to virus tracing should be managed strictly.” The memo outlined similar review steps.

    The Fudan notice says the State Council adopted the new policy on March 25, after the virus swept through Western Europe and the US, sickening hundreds of thousands of people and forcing most businesses to close.

    A representative of the Shanghai-based school told CNN, “It is not supposed to be made public, it is an internal document.”

    The Guardian reported that it received, but could not validate, a third document from the Renmin Hospital of Wuhan University that also said research into the origins of the virus had to be sent to Beijing for approval before publication.

    …White House coronavirus response coordinator Dr. Deborah Birx said at a recent press conference that she and other experts were unprepared for the scope of the crisis because the small number of cases reported in China indicated a less-infectious variety of coronavirus, such as SARS.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bf6ea)

  97. This is the Guardian story (from Saturday) from which the New York Post story – and an editorial also – is derived:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/11/china-clamping-down-on-coronavirus-research-deleted-pages-suggest

    Research on the origins of the virus is particularly sensitive and subject to checks by government officials, the notices posted on the websites of Fudan University and the China University of Geosciences (Wuhan) said. Both the deleted pages were accessed from online caches….

    Prof Steve Tsang, director of the SOAS China Institute in London, said the Chinese government had had a heavy focus on how the evolution and management of the virus is perceived since the early days of the outbreak.

    “In terms of priority, controlling the narrative is more important than the public health or the economic fallout,” he said. “It doesn’t mean the economy and public health aren’t important. But the narrative is paramount.”

    With the virus having infected more than a million people worldwide and caused heavy casualties particularly across Europe and the US, details about its origin and the first weeks of the pandemic – when there was a cover-up by local officials – may be considered particularly sensitive.

    “If these documents are authentic it would suggest the government really wants to control the narrative about the origins of Covid-19 very tightly,” said Tsang of the reports of new regulations.

    China University of Geosciences (Wuhan) appears to have published and then deleted new requirements that academic papers dealing with the origins of the virus be approved by China’s ministry of science and technology before publication…

    ….A source who alerted the Guardian to cached versions of the websites, and who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said they were concerned by what appeared to be an attempt by Chinese authorities to intervene in the independence of the scientific process.

    The person said researchers submitting academic papers on other medical topics did not have to vet their work with government ministries before seeking publication…

    ,,The notices appear to be part of a broader push to manage research on the virus. The science and technology ministry said on 3 April that ongoing clinical research on the coronavirus must be reported to authorities within three days or be halted.

    In March China’s president, Xi Jinping, published an essay that included “tracing the origin of the virus” on a list of national priorities. It was referenced by the science and technology ministry shortly before the universities posted their orders.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bf6ea)


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