Patterico's Pontifications

3/18/2020

President Trump Takes Additional Steps To Combat Coronavirus

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:56 am



[guest post by Dana]

This morning, President Trump referred to himself as a “wartime” president and said that he will invoke the 1950 wartime law known as the Defense Production Act in an effort to combat the coronavirus pandemic:

The act ensures the private sector can ramp-up manufacturing and distribution of emergency medical supplies and equipment. The move gives the White House the authority to increase production of masks, ventilators and respirators, as well as expand hospital capacity to combat the coronavirus.

Asked if he saw the nation as being on a wartime footing he said he did and described himself as “in a sense a wartime president.”

Earlier this morning, Sen. Chuck Schumer had called on the President to mobilize “as if it were a time of war” when it comes to medical equipment/supplies.

About the Defense Production Act:

The Defense Production Act (DPA) of 1950 (P.L. 81-774, 50 U.S.C. Appx §2061 et seq.), as amended, confers upon the President a broad set of authorities to influence domestic industry in the interest of national defense. The authorities can be used across the federal government to shape the domestic industrial base so that, when called upon, it is capable of providing essential materials and goods needed for the national defense.

Though initially passed in response to the Korean War, the DPA is historically based on the War Powers Acts of World War II. Gradually, Congress has expanded the term national defense, as defined in the DPA, so that it now includes activities related to homeland security and domestic emergency management. The scope of DPA authorities extends beyond shaping U.S. military preparedness and capabilities, as the authorities may also be used to enhance and support domestic preparedness, response, and recovery from natural hazards, terrorist attacks, and other national emergencies.

President Trump also said he would be invoking a provision that allows limiting certain people from crossing the southern border (including asylum seekers):

“The answer’s yes,” Trump told reporters when asked about the code, adding that he plans to invoke it “very soon. Probably today.”

The administration will invoke 42 U.S. Code 265, a section of the federal legal code that states the U.S. surgeon general “shall have the power to prohibit, in whole or in part, the introduction of persons and property from such countries or places as he shall designate in order to avert such danger, and for such period of time as he may deem necessary for such purpose.”

While the president told reporters that the administration would not be closing the U.S.-Mexico border, he did add that “… we’re invoking a certain provision that will allow us great latitude.”

–Dana

87 Responses to “President Trump Takes Additional Steps To Combat Coronavirus”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  2. Trump has bigger things to worry about than our borders, such as getting millions of test kits out (along with millions of respirators and ventilators), and expanding hospital capacity, and signing some sensible legislation to keep our economy from cratering worse.
    ● Mexico: 0.7 confirmed cases per million
    ● Canada: 15.9 per million
    ● United States: 19.9 per million

    Paul Montagu (198c56)

  3. We’re not going to buy millions of respirators and ventilators.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  4. DETROIT – Ford Motor Co., General Motors and Fiat-Chrysler will close their plants due to the coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak.

    The impact of this will not be spread evenly across the country. (see figure 3)

    A 3 shift plant will produce over 1,000 vehicles a day. At at an average transaction price of 30,000$ that’s 30,000,000$ of lost revenue a day. To make the math easy let’s say that 60% of that would have gone to material and labor. That’s 18,000,000 not being spent.

    Per day.
    Per plant.

    The US will feel that in our annual GDP. Cities like Kansas City, and Nashville (Ford and GM both have plants in both) will feel it. Cities like Ft. Wayne Indiana (GM has a plant there) will feel it deeply.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  5. Sorry if that should have gone to an open thread.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  6. The Defense Production Act of 1950, enacted at the outset of the Korean War, allows the federal government to compel [private] companies through loans, loan guarantees, purchases and purchase commitments [and directives] to prioritize and expedite development of supplies and resources to support national defense.

    I.e., a major pillar of fascism.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  7. Seems like if he wants to restrict the southern border he ought to restrict the northern one as well. And he should at least start talking about restricting air travel so that all these dirt cheap plane tickets don’t lead to hardship. I suspect a lot of the same sorts of folks who buy all the Purell are seeing these cheap flights as a way to benefit from the situation without worrying too much about how that affects others.

    Dustin (b18b7a)

  8. Dana, I tried to fpollow your link about the Defense Production Act. It goes to a CNN article about deaths by state.

    I was bothered by this language: …allows the federal government to compel companies… It seems they used “compel” when all that’s listed are correctly “incentivize”.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  9. @7 we did restrict travel to and from Canada. It was actually done cooperatively and professionally with Canada, as opposed to the total goat rope that the EU shutdown was.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  10. OMG, Trump has gone full blown Authoritarian. What will the never-trumpers say?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  11. Oh wait, the Democrats are for it. So, the NEver trumpers will fall in line.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  12. Trump vs. Cornavirus. Waiting for Jonah Goldberg “Both sides are wrong” column.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  13. Texas had 83 cases yesterday, plus 2 announced today in Lubbock. There have been 1907 tests, 697 in public labs and 1210 in private labs. I suspect the people getting tested in public labs have more symptoms than those in private labs, but overall that is a 22.43% testing positive.

    DRJ (15874d)

  14. Seems like if he wants to restrict the southern border he ought to restrict the northern one as well.

    Earlier today the U.S. and Canada both announced border restrictions through mutual agreement.

    Coronavirus: What the new US-Canada non-essential travel restriction means for travelers

    […]

    “I [Prime Minister Justin Trudeau] just spoke to President Trump again this morning and we have agreed that both Canada and the United States will temporarily restrict all non-essential travel across the Canada-U.S. border,” Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said in a press conference on Wednesday morning.

    Travelers won’t be permitted to cross the border for recreation and tourism, he explained.

    Trudeau clarified that “essential travel” won’t stop. “Our governments recognize that it is critical we preserve supply chains between both countries,” Trudeau said. These supply chains include the passage of food, fuel and medicines reach people in both countries. Trucking won’t be affected, for example.

    On USA Today

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  15. Trump vs. Cornavirus. Waiting for Jonah Goldberg “Both sides are wrong” column.

    Let us know when that becomes reality, and not just another of your lies. K?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  16. Several conservative writers have warned of the “moral equivalent of war” meme. There really is no such equivalence. War is the only war, and it has certain attributes unique itself.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  17. This is war.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  18. No. It is not war.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  19. Ragspierre,

    Thanks for the heads-up re link. I’ve updated the post with a fuller definition of the Defense Production Act:

    The Defense Production Act (DPA) of 1950 (P.L. 81-774, 50 U.S.C. Appx §2061 et seq.), as amended, confers upon the President a broad set of authorities to influence domestic industry in the interest of national defense. The authorities can be used across the federal government to shape the domestic industrial base so that, when called upon, it is capable of providing essential materials and goods needed for the national defense.

    Though initially passed in response to the Korean War, the DPA is historically based on the War Powers Acts of World War II. Gradually, Congress has expanded the term national defense, as defined in the DPA, so that it now includes activities related to homeland security and domestic emergency management. The scope of DPA authorities extends beyond shaping U.S. military preparedness and capabilities, as the authorities may also be used to enhance and support domestic preparedness, response, and recovery from natural hazards, terrorist attacks, and other national emergencies.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  20. A report from our graduate student who’s living in France (just across the border from Geneva, Switzerland):

    Went out today with my friend to pick up some instant coffee supplies from the local mini-market down the road and on the way back got stopped by the police – I had all my paperwork but they warned us that really only one of us should be sent out to get stuff if possible and the paper you have to fill out is only good for one person per paper. They seemed understanding though – hint taken nevertheless.

    The French are basically anarchists, so this level of pro-active law enforcement is surprising.

    Dave (1bb933)

  21. No. It is not war.

    Ragspierre

    Eventually, you’re (all) going to have to adjust to the new reality—it’s war:

    China Locked in Hybrid War with US
    PEPE ESCOBAR • MARCH 17, 2020

    Among the myriad, earth-shattering geopolitical effects of coronavirus, one is already graphically evident. China has re-positioned itself. For the first time since the start of Deng Xiaoping’s reforms in 1978, Beijing openly regards the US as a threat, as stated a month ago by Foreign Minister Wang Yi at the Munich Security Conference during the peak of the fight against coronavirus.

    Beijing is carefully, incrementally shaping the narrative that, from the beginning of the coronovirus attack, the leadership knew it was under a hybrid war attack. Xi’s terminology is a major clue. He said, on the record, that this was war. And, as a counter-attack, a “people’s war” had to be launched.

    Moreover, he described the virus as a demon or devil. Xi is a Confucianist. Unlike some other ancient Chinese thinkers, Confucius was loath to discuss supernatural forces and judgment in the afterlife. However, in a Chinese cultural context, devil means “white devils” or “foreign devils”: guailo in Mandarin, gweilo in Cantonese. This was Xi delivering a powerful statement in code.

    When Zhao Lijian, a spokesman for the Chinese Foreign Ministry, voiced in an incandescent tweet the possibility that “it might be US Army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan” – the first blast to this effect to come from a top official – Beijing was sending up a trial balloon signaliing that the gloves were finally off. Zhao Lijian made a direct connection with the Military Games in Wuhan in October 2019, which included a delegation of 300 US military.

    He directly quoted US CDC director Robert Redfield who, when asked last week whether some deaths by coronavirus had been discovered posthumously in the US, replied that “some cases have actually been diagnosed this way in the US today.”

    Zhao’s explosive conclusion is that Covid-19 was already in effect in the US before being identified in Wuhan – due to the by now fully documented inability [or unwillingness] of US to test and verify differences compared with the flu.

    […]

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  22. @21 Take a short stroll around the internet and cable news. You don’t have to go far and you’ll see the Chinese propaganda out and about. Read an article on what I would describe as a libertarian blog last night that was overtly pro-Chinese and anti-American.

    It’s war. It might not have been obvious before. I should be clearer now. It will be hard to deny in a couple of weeks.

    frosty (f27e97)

  23. Pepe Escobar (born 1954) is a Brazilian journalist. He writes a column – The Roving Eye – for Asia Times Online, and works as an analyst for RT, Sputnik News, and Press TV. In addition, he previously worked for Al Jazeera.
    Escobar has focused on Central Asia and the Middle East, and has covered Iran on a continuous basis since the late 1990s.

    Yeah, boy! No better authority for a declaration of WAR. I wonder who benefits, and who signs his checks?

    It is not a war. Regardless of which stupid people say what stupid things.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  24. Kroger is hiring.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  25. Deregulation then; bailout now.

    Reaganomics.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  26. @20: Yes, well who couldn’t get by without instant coffee supplies?

    I’ve had to become a wartime parent in our neighborhood, where people are refusing to self isolate. Schools are out for a reason, but the parents here still insist on sending their kids to our house to play with our kids. We are plagued with having the “cool” house for kids, with lots of play things. I’ve had to turn away kids who have a cough but “are totally fine”, making us the bad guys.

    It’s not our job to entertain your kids and incur the risk. Self isolate for 14 days— can people simply not handle that?!

    Munroe (de43d8)

  27. Sen. Chuck Schumer had called on the President to mobilize “as if it were a time of war” when it comes to medical equipment/supplies.

    =sigh=

    The war in Afghanistan, code named Operation Enduring Freedom (2001–14) and Operation Freedom’s Sentinel (2015–2020),followed the United States invasion of Afghanistan. The war has since mostly involved US and allied Afghan government troops battling Taliban insurgents. The war in Afghanistan is the longest war in US history.

    IDIOTS!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. This ends when immunity reaches its critical level (approximately 70%, assuming R0 of 3). That is what will stop community spread. Unless and until that happens, we can shelter-in-place and take steps to slow down transmission, and it will come roaring back as soon as we undo those measures.

    Gryph (08c844)

  29. @23 I’ve been waiting for the wise men on TV to point out that the Chinese numbers went flat because they stopped counting. There are reports from China that say as much but it should be obvious from the regional breakdowns. Shortly before it flattened the central government incentivized the regional governments to get the spread under control. Regions that reduced the daily increases to zero got the carrot. If you think there wasn’t a stick I’d like to talk to you about some land I have for sale. The curve flattened within days.

    The Chinese have a concept called the mandate from heaven and that doesn’t bode well for the Chinese communist party. Even without that the effect of this will be severe in China. They will need a scapegoat and the best one for them is the white devil.

    You may not want more conflict with China but China is going to want someone to blame.

    If China moves on its threats to dump the dollar or stop the shipment of medical supplies to the US there will also be a lot of unhappy Americans. If the US has numbers like the EU it’s likely that most people will know someone who got very sick from this. Many people will know someone who died. Those people will not be sympathetic to Chinese propaganda.

    I’m not a Russian asset and I can connect those dots.

    frosty (f27e97)

  30. “No buybacks. Not now, not a year from now, not 20 years from now. Not ever.” @mcuban on attaching terms to companies that need a government bailout during the #coronavirus outbreak. pic.twitter.com/MDzbWF2wFm

    — Squawk Box (@SquawkCNBC) March 18, 2020

    How would this work?

    Lets say the Airline asks for bailout/loans… how do you stop executives from buying back their stocks in future? Would it be more of a structured bankruptcy?

    Furthermore, when things are going good for corporations, buybacks are done instead of “saving a large of $$$ in a piggybank” for rainy day, as large cash in savings impacts the balance sheet in other ways (ie, taxations).

    whembly (fd57f6)

  31. > referred to himself as a “wartime” president

    This will go well.

    john (cd2753)

  32. Gryph (08c844) — 3/18/2020 @ 12:36 pm

    Sounds like someone went to Wikipedia. Now your argument is spreading the virus to hit 70% is the best plan and is actually morally justified?

    This was Boris Johnson’s plan for the UK until someone sat him down and explained what would happen if they did that without slowing the spread.

    frosty (f27e97)

  33. 32. No. My argument is not that spreading the virus to hit 70% is the best plan. My argument is that it will happen no matter what steps we take to prevent it. We can slow it down, but the more we slow it, the longer it will take to get to that point.

    I have absolutely no moral compunction against formulating and using a vaccine to get to 70% immunity. But guess what? We don’t have one yet. So let me say it again: I am not speaking in terms of what I believe should happen, I am speaking in terms of what will happen. And what will happen is, eventually 70% of Americans will end up immune to this particular strain of Coronavirus, by hook or by crook. And if it takes infection to get to that point, shelter-in-place orders for otherwise healthy individuals will only utterly destroy our economy on the way to get there.

    Gryph (08c844)

  34. “This is war.”

    When are you enlisting?

    Davethulhu (c914aa)

  35. @30. All these big firms profited from a recent ‘yuge’ tax cut/break from this administration, too. And they did buybacks w/it, not raise wages nor expand business.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  36. “This is war.”

    When are you enlisting?

    You’re confusing predicting a thing (really, understanding what is already going on now) with wanting it. I’m not going to get into my background, but part of it includes military service.

    However, in a bioware, in a hybrid war as the article describes, we’re all on the front lines.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  37. *biowar

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  38. @37 has any reputable scientist or lab presented any evidence that this wasn’t naturally occurring?

    Time123 (daab2f)

  39. 21. Here is the Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman on Twitter (banned for ordinary people in China) last Thursday Twitter time:

    https://twitter.com/zlj517/status/1238110160884625409

    Lijian Zhao 赵立坚
    @zlj517

    1/2 CDC Director Robert Redfield admitted some Americans who seemingly died from influenza were tested positive for novel #coronavirus in the posthumous diagnosis, during the House Oversight Committee Wednesday. #COVID19

    9:30 AM · Mar 12, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

    https://twitter.com/zlj517/status/1238111898828066823

    Lijian Zhao 赵立坚
    @zlj517
    ·
    2/2 CDC was caught on the spot. When did patient zero begin in US? How many people are infected? What are the names of the hospitals? It might be US army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan. Be transparent! Make public your data! US owe us an explanation!

    9:37 AM · Mar 12, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

    He also tweeted links to different articles.

    Of course the CDC official was not talking about any case that occurred before there was one in China.

    Now this disease probably all started with one person, or one animal, and it would be pretty peculiar for Patient Zero and/or that animal not to be in China and also lead to a massive outbreak only in China.

    Meanwhile the Chinese government is cancelling the press credentials of all reporters except those that were recently renewed and canceling all press credentials from the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post and they won’t even be allowed to work in Hong Kong or Macau..

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  40. Another thing: According to a New York Post editorial, the government of China didn’t admit (“publicly denied”) that it was spread by human to human contact until January 20, 2020. And the world Health Organization tweeted on January 14:

    https://twitter.com/who/status/1217043229427761152?lang=en

    World Health Organization (WHO)
    @WHO

    Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China

    5:18 AM · Jan 14, 2020·Twitter Web App
    1.5K
    Retweets

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  41. However, in a biowar, in a hybrid war as the article describes, we’re all on the front lines.

    Wow. All that based on an article by a moke who works for Russia.

    I’d have given you credit for more brains…

    but for the fact that you’ve been plastering nonsense on these threads for (at least) days about how the origin of this virus was Ft. Dodad right here in the USA, and the Chinese just might have a beef!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  42. has any reputable scientist or lab presented any evidence that this wasn’t naturally occurring

    I don’t think the U.S. is looking for it and patient zero in China has not been identified. I’m the one calling for an independent international investigation to figure this virus’s origin out definitively.

    Because, even if the Chinese are lying through their teeth, this is what they’re talking about and, no doubt, disseminating propaganda about. If they believe it, that’s dangerous. If they don’t believe it and are saying it anyway, that’s dangerous. If it actually happened the way they think, that’s dangerous.

    The safest thing to do is for the truth to be discovered and disseminated.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  43. Here’s his whole Twitter feed. You have to wait a while for messages dating back to March 12 to be loaded.

    https://twitter.com/zlj517

    It’s full of how much China is helping Italy and other places and how it may be over in China

    Lijian Zhao asked people to read this article:

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19-further-evidence-virus-originated-us/5706078

    The Taiwanese physician noted that in August of 2019 the US had a flurry of lung pneumonias or similar, which the Americans blamed on ‘vaping’ from e-cigarettes, but which, according to the scientist, the symptoms and conditions could not be explained by e-cigarettes.

    Because it was not in fact caused by ordinary vaping! It was caused by the addirion of Vitamin E oil (also known as Vitamin E acetate) to the product.

    And if that was coronovirus, how come it died out and was linkd to off brand vaping products?

    Interesting aside: When Secretary of HHS forst called President Trump, about January 3, to tell him about the virus, Trump was interested in talking about this vaping controversy (he did not want to blame all vaping, which was of course a very logical position, and the health authorities were incredibly stupid or biased if not even bought off.)

    Azar steered the conversation back to the Wuhan virus.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  44. Gryph (08c844) — 3/18/2020 @ 12:48 pm

    We can slow it down, but the more we slow it, the longer it will take to get to that point.

    Do you think we’d save the economy by allowing it to spread naturally? Do you have an assessment of the cost of not trying to slow it? You might want to wait to see what happens in Iran and Italy before you answer. Because even if what you say is true and we are required to hit 70% that doesn’t address the issue of what happens when a lot of people are critically sick at the same time.

    eventually 70% of Americans will end up immune to this particular strain of Coronavirus, by hook or by crook. And if it takes infection to get to that point, shelter-in-place orders for otherwise healthy individuals will only utterly destroy our economy on the way to get there.

    Again, do you really think we could save the economy by getting it over with at the natural R0?

    I have absolutely no moral compunction

    It sounds like you’ve got absolutely no moral compunction with large numbers of people getting sick at the same time knowing that the health care system wouldn’t be able to manage.

    frosty (f27e97)

  45. I’m the one calling for an independent international investigation to figure this virus’s origin out definitively.

    Glooooo-balist…!!!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  46. Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 1:10 pm

    The safest thing to do is for the truth to be discovered and disseminated.

    China will fight the truth.

    They’re as ready to talk about it, as they are about prison camps and sacrificing human beings sentenced to death with execution delayed for organ transplants.

    Yes, it’s dangerous if anybody believes what is coming out of China. They now claim to have eliminated it.

    Sometimes their scientists can tell the truth, if they are careful to skirt around whatever the goveernment doesn’t want them to say. For instance studies that stop at about February 8 or February 11.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  47. Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/18/2020 @ 1:10 pm

    Wow. All that based on an article by a moke who works for Russia.

    I can’t speak for anyone else. In my case, I don’t need a Russian asset to tell me the Chinese are going to need a scapegoat. People in the EU are going to be looking for one too.

    frosty (f27e97)

  48. China [or whomever] will fight the truth.

    No doubt.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  49. Those essential oils in the vape pens need to be placed squarely where they belong.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  50. has any reputable scientist or lab presented any evidence that this wasn’t naturally occurring

    I don’t think the U.S. is looking for it and patient zero in China has not been identified. I’m the one calling for an independent international investigation to figure this virus’s origin out definitively.

    Because, even if the Chinese are lying through their teeth, this is what they’re talking about and, no doubt, disseminating propaganda about. If they believe it, that’s dangerous. If they don’t believe it and are saying it anyway, that’s dangerous. If it actually happened the way they think, that’s dangerous.

    The safest thing to do is for the truth to be discovered and disseminated.

    Agree with the need for public research. But I’ve heard public statements from the people that study this that the DNA of the virus is very similar to diseases that occur in nature and that it’s very reasonable that a mutation could have allowed it to jump to humans. I haven’t seen anyone dispute that from a scientific perspective.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  51. 44. You are putting words into my mouth. Letting it occur naturally would lessen the hit to the economy if for no other reason that we would not be committing economic suicide, as shelter-in-place orders at the federal level would almost certainly be.

    Look, if I were to tell you that 1 + 1 = 2 and you disagreed with me, that doesn’t mean that my statement is not true. As for my supposed moral turbidity over not caring whether the health care system can handle this all (which I never at any point said), it’s a virus for God’s sake! Putting people in the hospital can only treat symptoms. It is very unlikely to change outcomes, particularly in high-risk individuals. What we should be doing for those at high risk is figuring out how to isolate them instead of completely destroying our GDP, which is what I’ve been saying all along.

    Gryph (08c844)

  52. the Chinese are going to need a scapegoat.

    If the odds of a U.S. release are <1% and a Chinese origin are >99%, the Chinese propaganda still is what it is. Remember, the Chinese accused America of using biological weapons in the Korean War. The International Scientific Commission concluded that the allegations are true.

    The Chinese are very, very serious about their belief that Americans are capable of using biological weapons, and against them specifically. They have already signaled, at the highest levels, that they intend to respond gravely.

    Note that America used atomic weapons, Agent Orange in Vietnam (after the Gulf of Tonkin incident), etc. It should not be taken as a given that America’s military behavior is always According to Hoyle. So I don’t think it’s impossible the Chinese leadership have a grievance. Or believe they do, even if they don’t. Or are lying and saying that do in order to save their Party’s power and their own necks.

    The Chinese response to this is not a trivial aspect. It isn’t just the current medical and economic emergency we’re facing.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  53. Fook the ChiComs.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  54. Q: Do you consider America to be on a wartime footing, in terms of fighting this virus?

    THE PRESIDENT: I do. I actually do. I’m looking at it that way because, you know, if — if it got out of control — the big thing we did was a very early stoppage of people coming in who could be very, very heavily infected. And that was a –that was a very good move.

    And it was very early — very, very early — when most people, including a lot of professionals, they didn’t want us to do it. That really saved a lot of lives.

    And, yeah, I look at it — I view it as a, in a sense, a wartime president. I mean, that’s what we’re fighting. I mean, it’s — it’s a very tough situation. You’re — you have to do things. You have to — you have to close parts of an economy that six weeks ago were the best they’ve ever been. We had the best economy we’ve ever had. And then, one day, you have to close it down in order to defeat this enemy. And — but we’re doing it, and we’re doing it well.

    And I’ll tell you, the American people have been incredible. For the most part, they’ve been really incredible.

    BuDuh (5d25d6)

  55. Note that America used atomic weapons, Agent Orange in Vietnam (after the Gulf of Tonkin incident), etc.

    Agent Orange was a defoliant. (Not BTW Duh Donald’s code name.) Do you have ANY idea wtf you type?

    Atomic weapons were used to save millions of lives, right out in front of gawd and everyone. They also stopped Stalin from over-running Europe, BTW.

    Etc.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  56. Gryph (08c844) — 3/18/2020 @ 1:33 pm

    You are putting words into my mouth.

    No. I’m just pointing out the consequences of what you are saying in a way you don’t like.

    Look, if I were to tell you that 1 + 1 = 2 and you disagreed with me, that doesn’t mean that my statement is not true. As for my supposed moral turbidity over not caring whether the health care system can handle this all (which I never at any point said), it’s a virus for God’s sake! Putting people in the hospital can only treat symptoms. It is very unlikely to change outcomes, particularly in high-risk individuals. What we should be doing for those at high risk is figuring out how to isolate them instead of completely destroying our GDP, which is what I’ve been saying all along.

    Except that this simply is not true. Do you think doctors are putting critical patients on ventilators because it’s fun or to boost their profits? Have you read any of the stories from Italy about doctors having to decide who gets on a ventilator and who doesn’t? They are doing that because people who need ventilators and aren’t put on them will almost surely die. Of course, everyone who goes on a ventilator isn’t saved but your statement that going to the hospital is unlikely to change outcomes is false. If we keep the numbers low enough at any given time and allow the healthcare system to function people will recover who would otherwise have died when the system failed. That is 1+1=2. Another 1+1=2 is that this number is not small. If we did nothing a lot of people would get sick at the same time and a large number of people would die.

    Ventilators aren’t the only issue. People with the virus can also die because the virus makes them susceptible to bacterial infection. That can also be treated but if it isn’t will increase the likelihood the person will die.

    You are not telling me 1+1=2. You’ve already told me that you personally don’t want to be impacted by this. No one does. But other than that you are just rationalizing your position to let people get sick naturally and let the chips fall where they may.

    Yes, the government is recommending, and in some places mandating, drastic changes. Even if they didn’t enough people would change their behavior to cause serious economic damage. The idea that this is just a media-created event is just people having trouble processing the scope of the problem. I’d agree that we wouldn’t be seeing obvious economic consequences today if we had chosen to ignore it but this is not the normal flu. If we chose to ignore it we’d still have to deal with it when the numbers made it obvious. At that point, we’d be in a much worse situation. There are no versions of this that don’t involve some fairly radical changes.

    frosty (f27e97)

  57. The International Scientific Commission concluded that the allegations are true.

    Before you go spreading that feed-lot load of BS around, you MAY want to look under the hood…

    being careful of the fumes.

    https://credo.library.umass.edu/view/pageturn/mums312-b139-i045/#page/47/mode/1up

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  58. What I don’t understand is why so many people bought eggs. Frozen foods I understand.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  59. 56. Then you are advocating an unnecessary and highly damaging national economic suicide. I’ll do what I can and what I must, but I’m not playing along with your doom-and-gloom scenario.

    Gryph (08c844)

  60. Gryph (08c844) — 3/18/2020 @ 2:36 pm

    Do you think letting everyone get sick at the same time is actually better for the economy? Can you walk me through that? Do you just think it’s not possible to overwhelm the healthcare system?

    Honestly, I’d really like you to walk me through how not slowing the spread would be to our economic advantage. Or explain how everyone would be more than willing to go back to restaurants, subways, planes, etc. if only the government and the media would tell them everything was going to be ok.

    I can’t help but notice that you just ignore what you are hearing. I’ve explained how going to the hospital will change outcomes. Do you still think it won’t?

    frosty (f27e97)

  61. So the people who predicted America would go to war with Trump as President were right.

    DRJ (15874d)

  62. 60. Shutting down my place of employment out of fear so I can save a bunch of old people I don’t know does not strike me as sound economic policy. YMMV.

    Gryph (08c844)

  63. And of course, that’s even assuming it would do any good in the long-term, which it won’t.

    Gryph (08c844)

  64. Gryph (08c844) — 3/18/2020 @ 3:09 pm

    I’ll keep trying. Does it make sense for your job to stay open if doing so kills 50% of your customers? What about 25%? Is there some number that is acceptable? And that’s not a moral question. Car companies make safety decisions based on cost-benefit analysis and they aren’t the only ones. I don’t know where you work but I assume it needs to not kill customers to stay in business. Granted, some businesses don’t rely on repeat customers but there is some kill rate that will disincentive new customers even if you keep putting an under new management sign on the door. What do you think that number is? What do you think the number is that keeps you from getting sued? What do you think that number is before the local health department or maybe the sheriffs show up and start asking about the body count simply because you’re cutting into their tax base? And again, that is a purely utilitarian question. There is a number above which your job wouldn’t be profitable. Do you know what that number is?

    frosty (f27e97)

  65. Respirators are not ventilators.

    A respirator is a face-mask, like those N85 pasks you can’t find in stores, or something more like a gas mask. Cost? As much as $30

    A ventilator goes down your throat and is computer controlled to do your breathing for you. Cost? Bend over.

    Once upon a time (1950) these were similar devices (a ventilator was a mask, bag and tube), but no more.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  66. *N95

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  67. After this is over, and possibly before that, there is going to be some generational strife and an attempt by politicians to aim that strife at the other guys.

    Not only was Trump all over the place as this started, but so was everyone else. Trump SURE did not want to crater the economy, and tried to pass this off as “the flu.” Not that he could have nationally instituted the draconian policies we’re seeing in some places (SoCal, for example) — he would rightly been called a despot. Since then he’s been pushed further and further towards what we have now.

    And I suspect, when the current regime is not turning the tide, he’ll be blamed for getting us here. just as he was for the travel bans and trying to keep the economy afloat.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  68. People are already dumping their pets in shelters or just on street corners. They probably lost their jobs and are leaving town, or maybe they just can’t afford another mouth to feed. We see this in West Texas every time the price of oil goes down, and now it is way way down plus coronavirus. I hate that people do this to their pets. Pets are as much a part of our family as our kids.

    DRJ (15874d)

  69. I give Trump credit for (finally) listening to his medical advisors and letting them steer the response.

    DRJ (15874d)

  70. We see this in West Texas every time the price of oil goes down,

    The people who do this are bad people and should be executed.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  71. Melania Trump announces plans to appear in coronavirus PSAs

    First lady Melania Trump will appear in a series of public service announcements to communicate “the most important ways Americans can protect themselves and those most at risk,” the White House said in a statement.

    The White House said it is partnering with with the AdCouncil, media networks and digital platforms. Surgeon General Jerome M Adams, Dr. Anthony Fauci, Dr. Deborah Birx and “other administration officials” will also appear in the PSAs.

    Earlier Wednesday, the first lady sent a tweet asking healthy Americans to “consider donating blood to help save lives.” She added that the Red Cross is “taking extraordinary precautions to ensure the environment is safe.”

    CNN has reached out to the White House to see if the first lady has any plans to donate blood herself.

    Dave (1bb933)

  72. Will she read what the script writers wrote for her or something Michelle Obama said?

    nk (1d9030)

  73. Damn, that’s funny.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  74. I hate that people do this to their pets. Pets are as much a part of our family as our kids.

    It’s cruel. So very cruel. It should be a felony in every sense of the word.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  75. @72. If she delivers her lines from a bathtub full of warmed Purell, who cares if she plagiarizes Michelle, JoeyBee or Ben Franklin… viewers will watch. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  76. I give Trump credit for (finally) listening to his medical advisors and letting them steer the response.

    I can understand his reluctance, and I’m not sure he’s made the right decision. It is not actually sociopathic to think that a solid economy saves lives, too. The guy who loses his job may also lose his medical insurance, and then need it. His children might go hungry. He might become despondent and kill himself.

    An alternative approach would be for all those who are “at risk” (and there are many, I know — I’m probably one) to isolate themselves, to take precautions when they can’t, and to let the virus burn out like the flu does. SPIKE the curve infection, and get it over with, while keeping the truly endangered people out of harm’s way.

    When you consider that the bulk of those that would have to isolate are NOT IN THE JOB POOL (too sick, too old, etc) the economic impact of that is relatively modest.

    And then consider that people who are at risk are isolating ANYWAY.

    Italy had problems not because they didn’t “flatten the curve” but because those who were vulnernable did not know their danger, and/or their caregivers did not understand it. The curve was peaked by ignorance as much as anything else.

    I guarantee you that when the flu comes next winter, we are NOT going to repeat this to save 30,000 lives.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  77. @67. Not that he could have nationally instituted the draconian policies we’re seeing in some places (SoCal, for example)

    Yeah, this evening, the San Diego mayor reduced the number allowed to gather in public to just 10 people and the largest mall in San Diego County, Fashion Valley, has been closed by the management firm until a least April 2.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  78. The Hill:

    Early data analyzed by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) shows that younger Americans are at substantial risk of experiencing serious medical problems from the coronavirus sweeping the globe.

    That data runs counter to some of the early messaging from public health officials in other parts of the world.

    A new CDC analysis of more than 2,400 cases of COVID-19 that have occurred in the United States in the last month shows that between 1 in 7 and 1 in 5 people between the ages of 20 and 44 in the sample of those who are confirmed cases require hospitalization, a level significantly higher than the hospitalization rates for influenza. The true percentage of young people who require hospitalization is likely much less, because many remain asymptomatic.

    Between 2 percent and 4 percent of confirmed cases among people that young are admitted to intensive care units. The fatality rate is low, only 0.1 percent to 0.2 percent.

    Health outcomes are much worse among those who are older and those who have underlying health conditions.

    DRJ (15874d)

  79. What works:

    While Italy is currently the “worst-case scenario” for the United States, the small Italian town of Vò has not reported any new cases of COVID-19 since last Friday and the spread of the illness has been completely stopped there.

    Vò, a town of 3,300 just outside Venice, was part of an experiment that involved aggressive testing and quarantine measures. Every single resident was tested for coronavirus in late February when Northern Italy was first rocked by the outbreak, and three percent of inhabitants were found to be carrying the virus.

    Andrea Crisanti, an infections expert at Imperial College London, was involved with the experiment and told news outlets that half of the carriers exhibited no symptoms.

    “In the UK, there are a whole lot of infections that are completely ignored,” Crisanti told the Financial Times. “We were able to contain the outbreak here because we identified and eliminated the ‘submerged’ infections and isolated them. That is what makes the difference.”

    Anyone who tested positive was placed under quarantine, as were individuals that came into recent contact with the infected. The town’s residents were then tested again 10 days later, and just .3 percent of the population was found to be carrying the virus. However, at least six infected individuals were asymptomatic and would not have been tested in most other countries.

    Testing. Quarantine.

    DRJ (15874d)

  80. Early reports indicate the Japanese antiviral Avigan works.

    DRJ (15874d)

  81. 30,000 home test kits available March 23. Not sure how reliable it will be, but we aren’t sure about the current tests either.

    DRJ (15874d)

  82. My concerns in #76 are echoed here: https://news.yahoo.com/no-not-going-stay-home-143016960.html

    Locking down the world economy for more than a year to stop the coronavirus would be insane, possibly leading to more deaths — from malnutrition, conflict and other causes — than the virus ever could. But there are paths we can follow other than doing that or letting Covid-19 just wash over us, and as the weeks and months go by I would expect that we will discover more and more of them.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  83. #78: Young people can have impairments, too. HIV+ is one. Obesity and its related issues are another. Asthma. Heavy smoking, drug addiction and alcoholism. Poor living conditions and malnutrition. Autoimmune diseases. Lots of things.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  84. Young people can have impairments, too. HIV+ is one. Obesity and its related issues are another. Asthma. Heavy smoking, drug addiction and alcoholism. Poor living conditions and malnutrition. Autoimmune diseases. Lots of things.

    Vaper’s, it was killing kids by destroying their lungs before, if they get this do they implode?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  85. President Trump says government should take a stake in certain companies.

    That sound you just heard was Bernie and AOC holding their breath for a moment and waiting.

    Time123 (306531)

  86. He really needs to shut up. Did he even understand the question?

    nk (1d9030)

  87. We need help with supplies during the qurantine.

    Our family is out of cleaning wipes and we can’t find any at the stores.

    I can get surgical masks at http://Freelytrade.com
    Please sell your excess supplies at Freelytrade? We’ll pay whatever the going rate is for it!

    You’ll save our lives and our neighbourhood right now!

    Stay healthy
    Zak

    Zak Pankhurst (c6297e)


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