White House Considers Sending $1,000 To Americans To Help Families During Pandemic
[guest post by Dana]
The White House is discussing whether to provide Americans with a one-time payment of $1,000 to help them with economic hardships resulting from the coronavirus pandemic, and to limit the economic fallout:
“We’re looking at sending checks to Americans immediately,” Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin told reporters at the White House.
Mnuchin said the administration was looking at ways to provide the checks within the next two weeks.
He also said the administration will allow Americans to defer up to $1 million in payments to the Internal Revenue Service for 90 days. Mnuchin said the IRS would not charge interest or penalties for the deferral. He said corporations could defer up to $10 million in IRS payments.
CNN’s John Harwood also asked President Donald Trump and Treasury Sec. Steve Mnuchin about the logistics of an economic stimulus idea that could give $1,000 checks to Americans, which is gaining some bipartisan support.
Mnuchin expressed some support for the idea and it would be discussed during his Capitol Hill meetings.
“I think it’s clear we don’t need to send people who make a million dollars a year checks. But we like — that’s one of the ideas we like. We’re going to preview that today and then we’ll be talking about details afterwards,” Mnuchin said.
Trump chimed in, saying, “I think we’re going to do something that gets money to them as quickly as possible. That may not be an accurate way of doing it because obviously some people shouldn’t be getting checks for $1000. But we’ll have a pretty good idea by the end of the day what we’re going to be doing.”
Note: No matter how much people claim this is the same thing as Andrew Yang’s universal basic income (UBI) plan, which promised “a set of guaranteed payments of $1,000 per month, or $12,000 per year, to all U.S. citizens over the age of 18…you and everyone you know would get $1,000/month every month from the U.S. government, no questions asked,” it isn’t. The current discussion surrounding Trump’s proposal addresses a one-time, emergency shot in the wallet for Americans. Yang’s payment was every month, in perpetuity, and it was painfully obvious that it was an unsustainable plan. A one-time $1,000 payment is simply nowhere the same as a full-blown UBI.
Sen. Tom Cotton proposed his own relief plan today:
Cotton (R-Ark.) proposed Tuesday providing a $1,000 tax rebate check to every adult making under $100,000 per year and $500 for every claimed dependent on that adult’s tax filings.
Married couples making under $200,000 annually who jointly file their taxes would be eligible for a tax rebate check for $2,000.
Cotton defended sending checks to individuals and couples as indispensable for Americans to be able to afford necessities.
“Giving relief directly to Americans is a better solution than complicated sick-leave policies or payroll tax cuts, and will be more certain to go to the kinds of hourly- or gig-workers who need it most,” he wrote.
“Legislation that provided tax rebates to households most likely to be in need within days would be much more effective and immediate than complicated policies requiring significant time for implementation.”
Mitt Romney was first to suggest a $1,000 check to Americans as we endure the coronavirus pandemic:
“Every American adult should immediately receive $1,000 to help ensure families and workers can meet their short-term obligations and increase spending in the economy,” the Utah Republican wrote in a proposal published Monday.
“Congress took similar action during the 2001 and 2008 recessions. While expansions of paid leave, unemployment insurance, and SNAP benefits are crucial, the check will help fill the gaps for Americans that may not quickly navigate different government options.”
Both Romney and Cotton believe that Congress needs to go beyond what the House coronavirus response package provides.
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (4fb37f) — 3/17/2020 @ 4:17 pmTrump chimed in, saying, “I think we’re going to do something that gets money to them as quickly as possible. That may not be an accurate way of doing it because obviously some people shouldn’t be getting checks for $1000. But we’ll have a pretty good idea by the end of the day what we’re going to be doing.”
Well, hell, why not? The ruling class has decided that money really does grow on trees.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/17/2020 @ 4:20 pmI didn’t have the energy to expand on the topic and include Trump’s big and bold stimulus planning, but consider this the thread to comment about it:
Dana (4fb37f) — 3/17/2020 @ 4:27 pm“Wang, Wang, Wang went the trolley!” — So Treasury Secretary Ned Ryerson wants to send everybody $1000.
Will that buy you a room for 2 or 3 nights at a Trump Hotel?
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 4:27 pmI think Mr. Trump the so-called President should take that money, every penny, all $330 billion, but on the condition that he packs up all his kith and kin and moves out of the country and never comes back, that’s what I think.
nk (1d9030) — 3/17/2020 @ 4:34 pmAnd take Andrew Yang with him.
nk (1d9030) — 3/17/2020 @ 4:36 pm@3.“We don’t want airlines going out of business or people losing their jobs and not having money to live,” Trump said at a news conference.
Hmmmm…
“Trump Shuttle, Inc. was an airline owned by Donald Trump from 1989 to 1992. The landing rights and some of the physical assets necessary to operate the shuttle flights were originally part of Eastern Air Lines and known as the Eastern Air Lines Shuttle… Eastern president Frank Lorenzo met Donald Trump at a party, and subsequently negotiated the sale of the shuttle to Trump for $365 million, more than the projected cost to start up a similar airline, but justifiable if the airline achieved a high market share. For that price, Trump got a fleet of 17 Boeing 727s, landing facilities in each of the three cities that the shuttle fly to, and the right to put his name on the company and its airplanes. The shuttle had previously been a “no-frills” operation for business travelers, but Trump announced that he would convert it to a luxury airline.
The company was never profitable. Passenger traffic on the shuttle began to decline in November 1989. In late 1989 the U.S. Northeast entered an economic recession which depressed demand, while the August 1990 Iraqi invasion of Kuwait caused jet fuel prices to double. While costs of running the airline rose, many of the corporate customers using the shuttle were cutting travel budgets. Trump’s casino business was simultaneously encountering serious difficulties, and Trump was forced to cede control over several business holdings to his bankers in June 1990 in order to avoid personal bankruptcy. The airline ran out of cash and defaulted on its debt in September 1990.
Trump Shuttle conducted some charter operations around this time to monetize the shuttle’s spare aircraft. In June 1990, the airline carried Nelson Mandela on his eight-city tour of the United States. During the Gulf War of 1990-91, the airline received a government contract to ferry U.S. military personnel between the key domestic bases of Dover AFB, Charleston AFB, Travis AFB, McChord AFB, and Kelly AFB; during the 2016 presidential campaign, Sean Hannity reported, and the Trump campaign confirmed, that Trump had sent his own aircraft to ferry troops during the war, apparently referring to these charter operations.
Sale
Trump had personally guaranteed $135 million of the shuttle’s debt. Following the default, Citibank made arrangements for Northwest Airlines to take control of the shuttle in exchange for relieving Trump’s personal liability on its debt, and all sides were reportedly close to an agreement by April 1991. Delta Air Lines agreed to buy the competing Pan Am Shuttle in July, and Northwest announced that its acquisition of the Trump Shuttle was cancelled in August, reportedly due to the Trump Shuttle’s unions demanding parity with Northwest employees and Trump refusing to discount the price to reflect this. USAir ultimately reached an agreement in December 1991 to take operational control of Trump Shuttle for up to ten years, with an option to buy it after five years. Bankers involved in the negotiations said that Trump would be relieved of at least $100 million of his guarantee, and possibly as much as $110 million, leaving him owing between $25 and $35 million in the closing out of his ownership of the company.
On April 7, 1992 Trump Shuttle ceased to exist when it was merged into a new corporation, Shuttle, Inc., which began operating as the USAir Shuttle on April 12, 1992. US Airways subsequently purchased the remainder of Shuttle, Inc. on November 19, 1997, and the service subsequently operated under the name US Airways Shuttle. Shuttle, Inc. remained as a subsidiary of US Air Group until July 1, 2000, when it was merged into US Airways. In October 2015, US Airways merged with American Airlines, at which point the shuttle became the American Airlines Shuttle.” – source, wikiwingsclipped
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 4:40 pm“Trump’s big and bold stimulus planning”
I’m sure we’ll be hearing from the Tea Party any minute now.
Davethulhu (c914aa) — 3/17/2020 @ 4:45 pmMitt Romney was first to suggest a $1,000 check to Americans as we endure the coronavirus pandemic: “Every American adult should immediately receive $1,000 to help ensure families and workers can meet their short-term obligations and increase spending in the economy,” the Utah Republican wrote in a proposal published Monday.
Only $1000, Mitt??
Gee, once upon a time, Willard was willing to bet $10,000 on a debatable gamble.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 4:45 pmDana, IIRC Duh Donald also was calling for money for Europe. I asked if that made him a gloooooo-balist.
I got crickets. And I don’t think Roger Stone had ought to do with the question.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/17/2020 @ 4:48 pm@5/@6. Yellow Peril or Yellow Fever?
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 4:54 pmThis strikes me as next-level stupid.
For people who are really gonna take it on the chin, who are losing their incomes for an indefinite period of time, a one-time payment of $1K is a joke.
For people like me, who can continue to work, it’s simply a bribe with borrowed money.
Rather than throwing $100 bills out of airplanes, they should target the money toward the people most affected.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/17/2020 @ 4:55 pmYellow belly.
nk (1d9030) — 3/17/2020 @ 4:56 pmThese Congresscritters – Willard, Cotton et.,al, are so out of touch w/an America which has the bulk of the citizenry terrified of an out of the blue $500 expense. $1000 doesn’t go far in 2020– try $5000.
Idiots.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 4:59 pm13. “Yellow belly.”
‘I guess that’s why they call it The Blues.’ – Elton John
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:02 pmIf only Bloomberg had given every American $1M instead of wasting it on that presidential campaign…
Dave (1bb933) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:06 pmBloomberg was just trying to buy the election with his own cash. Trump’s buying the election with the cash our kids will be paying China for.
Dustin (9c58b3) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:11 pmWouldn’t you know it, the always tone-deaf fake Indian, Senator Elizabeth Warren, is demanding that relief bills intended to help out people during tough times include her favorite ideological hobby-horses. I am trying so hard during Lent and during this difficult time to be as generous as I can to people, even those with whom I disagree, but she is just so obnoxious that it’s obscene.
JVW (54fd0b) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:15 pmAgent Orange skating on impeachment…
Cowering at home in mortal fear of some supergerm…
And now Tom Brady leaving the Patriots.
Could we just get a do-over on 20-freaking-20?
I mean really.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:17 pmFor people like me, who can continue to work, it’s simply a bribe with borrowed money.
I don’t entirely disagree, but it’s also supposed to encourage you to perhaps spend that grand in the local economy in order to help out businesses. And I would frankly rather have $100 billion spent to stimulate the economy by giving one thousand dollars each to 100 million households than by having the Federal Government pick and choose which businesses get the money. Not that Congress won’t also do some half-baked form of that, much to my dismay.
JVW (54fd0b) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:19 pm@17. ‘Trump’s buying the election with the cash our kids will be paying China for.’
Reaganomics. 😉
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:19 pmThis is the blog where you come to see posts complaining about government over-reach in stimulus spending, but also to read posts telling you why you should trust medical advice from government lackeys. Pbbbbt! Ptooey!
Gryph (08c844) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:19 pmI could see $1,000 worth of food stamps. It would help out the farmers and regular people who really need help, and let the addicts and gang members find the cash elsewhere for drugs and guns.
And just to make sure it helped real Americans, we could exclude rice and beans as eligible purchases and include Popeye’s and McDonald’s.
nk (1d9030) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:27 pmNice.
Also, “Holy inflation, Batman!”
But a good idea in the short term.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:33 pm@23. A certain sector would likely lobby for $1000 worth of airline vouchers. Bailing them out must be conditioned with total revoking of all their damned baggage, ticket change and other idiotic ‘fees’. And they must provide warm sandwiches as in-flight meals– not bags of peanuts! The banks were bailed and got away/keeping all their fees– and that ain’t peanuts.
_________
CA Newsom presser:
“Few if any K-12 schools will reopen this year.”
Swell.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:35 pmDon’t look now, but Orange County just went on lockdown:
There are exceptions for “Essential Activities” including government, healthcare, and some retail businesses including the food stores, gas stations, banks, hardware stores, banks and carry-out restaurants.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:35 pmBreaking- Kansas has closed all K-12 schools for the rest of the year.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:38 pmThey should set up some type of remote curricula. Grant Chromebooks and Internet access to the families of poor children. It’s only March!
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:42 pmNK’s got the right idea. $1000 in food stamps for everybody would be a much more sensible way to make sure we were actually helping people.
You should by all means challenge medical advice, but do it rationally. The experts will usually be right, but if you scrutinize what they are saying sometimes you will find out they were mistaken.
We know a lot about how this virus spreads because of Italy, so this isn’t really ‘trust government lackeys’ so much as ‘it’s not a global conspiracy to pretend something bad is happening’.
There’s also no contradiction if someone wants to work together as a community, but doesn’t embrace huge payouts to boost Trump’s poll numbers.
Dustin (9c58b3) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:42 pmGet ready to see lemonade made out of lemons: the explosive growth of online HS K-12 education. And wow–online video football gaming between schools!
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:43 pmI’m actually ok with this. It’s inelegant perhaps but is maybe less overhead than other more targeted stimulus measures.
Nathan (5efffe) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:44 pmBack during Ebola, I had the energy and interest to find and link the federal law which says that the federal government only declares a public health emergency and it’s the states and local governments that enforce the measures to protect the public from it. If one of you can do it this time ….
nk (1d9030) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:44 pm@29. But that discriminates w/other business sectors. Why not $1000 worth of fast food coupons? Besides, $1000 is piss in the wind today. A grand doesn’t go far these days.
$5000 is a more realistic number in 2020 America.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:46 pmDo they mean this academic year or the calendar year?
Dustin (9c58b3) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:46 pmI’m sure it’s academic. Everyone hopes this is over by summer.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:47 pmI trust Orange County more than anything Orange in Washington…
Dave (1bb933) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:47 pmAh yeah, government cheese…burger
Dustin (9c58b3) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:48 pmAgent Orange skating on impeachment…
Cowering at home in mortal fear of some supergerm…
And now Tom Brady leaving the Patriots.
Could we just get a do-over on 20-freaking-20?
So… your worst fears have been realized. Do not cower in your home. Try the garage, more privacy.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:48 pm@36. Don’t knock it– government cheese was good– tasty; my grandmother used it.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:49 pmFood stamps are already federally eligible for restaurant food, and some counties in some states have made them locally eligible (but not many).
nk (1d9030) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:50 pmIf Trump comes out loudly opposed to Warren/Sanders constantly pushing this student debt forgiveness it would really push me towards supporting him. I’ve seen so many students make insane financial decisions and pile up the debt, either actually planning on this forgiveness or just being irresponsible because the next guy is. Every time a politician puts this out there it gets the kids thinking they are suckers if they work their way through school, or suckers if they learn a trade and work, instead of living on uncle sugar’s dime while partying.
If you aren’t going to school to better your future, why are you going? If you are, then why aren’t you happy to pay for it? By all means, do not go to that $45k a year school. Warren and Sanders are encouraging this spending while only takes pressure off schools to be affordable.
Dustin (9c58b3) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:51 pmSome interesting rules for childcare facilities in the OC order.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:52 pmThe idea that plumbers and cashiers should have to pay for gender studies members or even engineers, who invest to earn a higher income, is nuts and offensive.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:52 pmHave a droplet.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:53 pmWhat does “OC” stand for in “OC order”?
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:53 pmRemember, the twits proposing a mere $1000 are wearing suits that easily cost twice that. They are wholly out of touch w/day-to-day life in the real world jungle.
“Yes, we could have a coupon day or something.” – Lawyer Gennaro [Martin Ferrero] ‘Jurassic Park’ 1993
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:00 pmOrange County (California)
Dave (1bb933) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:03 pmThanks!
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:03 pm$1000 is sucker bait from these twits to the masses today:
Gold closed at $1,536.20/ oz., up +10.40 (+0.68%); Tues, Mar 17, 2020.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:11 pmJVW (54fd0b) — 3/17/2020 @ 5:15 pm
Dear Lizzie, you and Bernie together can’t get more than 40% of the Democrats in Illinois, to vote for you.
My Florida, land of sunshine and old folks, serms to be giving old guy Biden 61% to old guy Bernie 22%. That’s like three votes for Joe to every vote for Bernie. Even Mayor Pete is besting Lizzie in Florida (but not Illinois).
Aloha Sweetie is at one half of a percent in both places.
Kishnevi (30d0bc) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:15 pmSorry, JVW. Maybe 2024…
Then let not your heart be troubled.
The average annual income of a cashier is under $22K, so they pay no federal income tax.
Plumbers, on average, make about $58K per year, which puts them just slightly above the median income. The bottom 50% of earners paid only 3% of total federal income taxes. The bottom 75%, which your plumber is safely in the middle of, paid only 14% of federal income taxes.
The children of working people with low incomes are the chief beneficiaries of these programs, at the expense of people who already have a degree, earn much higher incomes, and pay a much larger share of the tax burden.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:17 pm27/28, didnt that happen, albeit in April, during the Brownback era when they lowered the state income tax and ran out of moneu?
urbanleftbehind (32b3e8) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:18 pmI’m getting Social Security and other income from investments. Although the investment thing isn’t going quite the way I’d hoped, I’m not in any trouble that I can see. Others have jobs that will pay them even during a furlough, particularly government jobs.
But there are a lot of working people who are just getting hammered here. Their rent, food, utilities, etc, don’t stop costing and their income, and maybe even the places they work are going away. For government to sent them money isn’t Socialism, it’s liquidated damages. They are being asked to sacrifice in a way that not everyone is, and frankly, it would be unethical not to help them out.
Now, these send-everyone-a-check things don’t really work for me, because I don’t need the check and neither do some others. A MUCH better plan would be to federally fund unemployment insurance to bring the payments up to perhaps 70% of the idled worker’s wage. More money to fewer people, with some connection to need. It’s not going top take all that long, and when the crisis lifes the support can stop.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:18 pmAgreed, Kevin.
urbanleftbehind (32b3e8) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:20 pmI’ll tell you, the Honolulu Honey is the only scion of the Matriarchy I could see maybe voting for as VP in November (as opposed to the other also-rans).
nk (1d9030) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:22 pm+1
Dave (1bb933) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:25 pmSo, Dave, in Orange County the county commissioners have the ability to order these closures even if a local mayor doesn’t agree? It’s hard for me to imagine the LA County Commissioners trying to impose this on Manhattan Beach, Beverly Hills, and Malibu, let alone big cities like Long Beach, Glendale, and Santa Clarita.
JVW (54fd0b) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:26 pmWhen Dave, Ulb and I are on the same page, we may have some traction here. Maybe even Senators can figure it out.
Dave, I saw your earlier comment, and I agree.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:27 pmI’ll tell you, the Honolulu Honey is the only scion of the Matriarchy I could see maybe voting for as VP in November (as opposed to the other also-rans).
I would spoil my ballot and scratch out Joe Biden’s name and only vote for My Little Aloha Sweetie, or else I would write her name in and leave the Presidential column otherwise unmarked. But even I don’t love her enough to cast a vote for Corn Pop’s sworn enemy.
JVW (54fd0b) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:30 pmThe latest on Bernie’s plan:
Dana (4fb37f) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:35 pmBernie, says, so you want to spend a trillion…hold my beer.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:37 pm@52 I agree. People like me, who will still be getting their salaries, don’t need the money and I am severely senior in my position in my district, esp with the retirements this year, so even if they lay off some of the people in my position, it won’t be me. I also have more than enough in liquid savings to wait things out, even if I lost my job and it took quite a while to wait things out. I’d actually save a few 100 per month in gas by staying home. (I get good gas mileage, but it’s California, we commute.) If we are going to have to borrow money (thanks Trumptaxcut) I’d rather have it be just for the people who need it, instead of spending the next 20 years paying China back for $1000 I don’t need.
Nic (896fdf) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:44 pmI’m not exactly an expert on county government powers, but the order cites several specific provisions of the California Health and Safety Code, to wit:
[emphasis added]
That’s pretty elastic. The next passage says much the same thing:
[emphasis added]
And if you don’t like it, as Patrick says, men with guns will come and put you in a cage:
I note the law consistently refers to “a local health officer,” and refers to “the territory under his or her jurisdiction”. Maybe larger cities who have their own health officer have authority over their own turf. Or maybe not.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:46 pmI, for one, welcome our new health officer overlords.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:51 pmMy godson’s mother, an MD in private practice certified in infectious diseases, was for a time the public health officer of a city with its own NFL team. But not in California. FWIW
nk (1d9030) — 3/17/2020 @ 6:58 pmAnd if you don’t like it, as Patrick says, men with guns will come and put you in a cage:
Except they are emptying the jails as we speak. If they don’t behave, I guess they’ll put them back in jail until they let them out again.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/17/2020 @ 7:02 pmGet a census form; get a check!
“Buy a car, get a check!” – Joe Garagiola, ex MLB catcher, sportscaster, Chrysler pitchman, 1975
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 7:02 pmAt the same time, my godson’s Catholic school had a beer concession at the NFL team’s football stadium, staffed by parent volunteers, so she and her husband (also a doctor) would sell beer on game days. But still not California.
nk (1d9030) — 3/17/2020 @ 7:04 pmYou hob-nob with filthy schismatics?
Dave (1bb933) — 3/17/2020 @ 7:08 pmKevin, linking to unemployment compensation might need a good deal of fine tuning. Rules vary among states, of course, but consider this in Florida (from the state website).
So claimants don’t receive any money until they are out of work for a month, more or less.
Florida also has a rule that you need to contact at least five different potential employers every week to get UC. That would need to be waived, I presume…but I think it’s part of the statute, so the legislature would need to do that.
It talks about being partially unemployed but eligible, but gives no info on that. So it’s not clear what actual benefit might be recieved by, f.i., a waitress in a restaurant with shortened hours, who loses a slice of both hourly pay and tips, but still works ten or fifteen hours a week.
And everyone who applies at one point in the process has to appear at the physical UC office. I think my county has 3 or 4. How do you manage that with “social distancing”?
Kishnevi (30d0bc) — 3/17/2020 @ 7:08 pmThere
Television holds the answer to everything, eh Donald?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Glyz3U5RwDw
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 7:11 pmHitler rails about teh coronavirus…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uocn3uHJqU
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/17/2020 @ 7:16 pmYou hob-nob with filthy schismatics?
I’m a Loyola Law School graduate myself.
nk (1d9030) — 3/17/2020 @ 7:16 pmYeah, I’m with Kish. I think extending unemployment benefits ought to wait until we see what the medium-term or long-term fallout from all of this is. Also, a bill might have to tweak or suspend the rules requiring people to be actively seeking work, especially those who might get a positive test. Mailing out checks is somewhat crude, but it has the benefit of being straightforward and quick, so it’s probably the most sensible first step.
JVW (54fd0b) — 3/17/2020 @ 7:17 pm“ Breaking- Kansas has closed all K-12 schools for the rest of the year.”
– DCSCA
The school year, of course – i.e. til mid-May – but far be it from this guy to specify something so trivial.
Leviticus (28a6ca) — 3/17/2020 @ 7:25 pmSending out $1000 in food stamps sounds like a good idea until you remember that you can’t pay your rent or mortgage with food stamps and that you can’t exchange them for medications.
John B Boddie (286277) — 3/17/2020 @ 7:30 pmNo plan is perfect, comrade. I mentioned the windfall to anti-social elements which would be used for frivolous, anti-social and possibly counter-revolutionary purposes which is the flaw in the cash plan.
nk (1d9030) — 3/17/2020 @ 7:36 pmYes, they might send a contribution to Justice Democrats…
Kishnevi (30d0bc) — 3/17/2020 @ 7:38 pm@74. The autumn classes are in play. These governors are following suit but lost of two or three months screws up college plans for these kids w/incompleted courses or some kind of remedial plan in work– budgets get fouled jp; SATs are being postponed as well. Shuttering schools has quite a ripple effect on a single community- let alone an entire state, L… “but far be it from this guy” to think it through.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 7:53 pmAnyway, now that the dipwiddles have created the expectation they have no choice but to go through with it and the only thing remaining is to see how badly they mess it up.
nk (1d9030) — 3/17/2020 @ 7:56 pmAt least it hasn’t spoiled Spring Break.
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/oblivious-spring-breakers-pack-florida-texas-beaches-pandemic-threatens-societal-collapse
Afterwards the partiers can disperse, return home and hug their parents and grandparents.
harkin (b64479) — 3/17/2020 @ 8:21 pm_
The Biden Plan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdf5EXo6I68
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 8:24 pmI am really sorry so many people are losing their jobs and that people are getting sick.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/17/2020 @ 9:47 pmΚύριε, ἐλέησον
Dave (1bb933) — 3/17/2020 @ 9:55 pmHere are some wise words from Greg Mankiw, capitalist and conservative:
Link. All good stuff. Mankiw is basically saying that our government should do whatever it takes to get through this, and it makes sense because, in this obvious deficit-spending situation, interest rates and the cost of money are historically low. Better to deficit-spend now than when our economy was going at full-tilt.
Paul Montagu (198c56) — 3/17/2020 @ 10:09 pmTrump on coronavirus today: ‘I’ve felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic’
smh
Dave (1bb933) — 3/17/2020 @ 10:31 pmSome good news for all you supply-siders— local TV station just reported a round trip plane ticket from San Diego to Las Vegas can be bought for just $37! =cough=
The chances for a full plane load? Place your bets…
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/17/2020 @ 10:34 pmMailing out checks is somewhat crude, but it has the benefit of being straightforward and quick, so it’s probably the most sensible first step.
If they must. I’ll probably give my check to the local food bank or something. I’m not real big on altruism, but I’m one of the people at risk, and I’ll be damned if I’ll make a profit over someone else’s sacrifice.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/17/2020 @ 11:00 pmHey, anyone remember the plot of “Rainbow Six”?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/17/2020 @ 11:01 pmFinancial planners tell people to have six months of living expenses in an emergency fund. Sadly, many people do not.
Two jobs to make ends meet and they suggest what?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/17/2020 @ 11:02 pmThere are times to worry about the growing government debt. This is not one of them.
This is what government debt is for: emergencies. War, earthquake, etc. Not for funding the national raquetball museum or paying farmers not to farm.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/17/2020 @ 11:05 pmI am not against giving money to help people in need but how will this play out? If everyone suddenly has $1000 and most decide to use it to buy food, instead of runs on grocery stores like we see now … I’m afraid we’ll have widespread gouging and food riots.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/18/2020 @ 2:50 am@91. It’s not going to do much good if you are in lockdown and the shelves are empty in those food stores anyway. Most people will just use it to pay down debt. $1000 doesn’t go far in a lot of places in America- like most metropolitan areas- these days.
______
On one news channel you get Zeke Emanuel stoking doom with babble about the bubonic plague and on another you get Treasury Secretary Ned Ryerson stoking gloom with babble of 20% unemployment if his trillion dollar package doesn’t pass, even as radio blowhard talk of ‘it’s just the flu’ still echoes. Speculation and spin; no calm and collected adult can believe any of these clowns know what the hell they’re guessing at when shoveling out so much fertilizer to an information hungry public.
The leadership vacuum at the national level is glaring– and this has not been our media’s finest hour as it runs tryouts in a search for a singular voice of authority to carry. No wonder the kids tune them all out and head to the beach for spring break.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/18/2020 @ 3:33 amI’d do it as a tax rebate
Main it out now to everyone but make it clear that if you’re over the threshold you’ll have to pay it back next year at tax time, interest free.
Amount Income
Ind/Jointly
3,000 20K/50K
2,000 35K/75K
1,500 50K/100K
1,000 100k/200k
Add 500$ per dependent.
My numbers are probably wrong, but the people that make 10-15$ a hour and are currently making nothing are who need the most help right now.
Time123 (441f53) — 3/18/2020 @ 6:43 amhttps://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/coronavirus-maps.html
The anecdotal evidence continues to grow, showing this virus is not particularly sensitive to warmth. Note that Africa and South America are filling in now.
An small irony; Iceland is a “hot spot”.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/18/2020 @ 6:50 amTom Elliott
@tomselliott
Clip of @StephenAtHome [Colbert] doing a monologue from home, during which he says Trump calling the Coronavirus “the Chinese virus” is “a very racist term”
_ _
John Gill
@johngillmedia
·
The jokes really fall flat without a studio of clapping seals.
__ _
Kyle Franklin
@chiefkylefrank
·
Maybe they should be outraged by China kicking out all the journalists.
You know, dictatorships die in darkness and all that.
__ _
Joseph Dugal
@josephdugal
replying to @StephenAtHome
the CDC still uses these references in addition to other nomenclature on their website:
“Asian flu”, “Wuhan flu”
__ _
alliemariEEEEEEEEBacon💃🏼👌🏻
@alliemarie777
·
Replying to @StephenAtHome
.
#ChingChongVirus BETTER?
__ _
Winston Smith (FTOP_T)
harkin (b64479) — 3/18/2020 @ 6:50 am@t_ftop
·
So Colbert is Xi’s c*ck holster? Isn’t that how this works?
__ _
Unfortunately, yes.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 6:55 amThis is depressing. Stinking politicians are no leaders, they’re pants-pooping pusillanimous panderers. And I’m not talking about the bailouts.
nk (1d9030) — 3/18/2020 @ 7:25 amAs I think about this giveaway, I’m struck by the idea that its a cure in search of an illness.
Nothing approaching all…perhaps not even most…Americans have directly lost money around this mess. Some have lost some value in their investments, and that’s too bad and to be expected.
Seems that any half intelligent plan must target those who really need the help, unless the whole boondoggle is a naked experiment in Keynesian stupidity.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/18/2020 @ 7:33 amWith all due respect, what the hell are you talking about? This isn’t designed to help Americans “who have [significant] investments. It’s designed for people who don’t. They’ll be some type of income/asset of some type, based on last year’s tax filing most likely.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 7:37 am*income/asset test
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 7:38 amKeynesian stupidity.
This is unfair to Keynes, who has been spinning in his grave for some time now, given the idiicies that his basic theory has been applied to. All Keynes said was “run a surplus when times are good, and spend in deficit when they aren’t, and so soften the business cycle.” All the politicians heard was “Blah, blah, blah, blah, spend.”
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/18/2020 @ 7:48 amVia Twitter user Quinoaluigi @synthandlasers—
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 7:52 amWith all due respect, what the hell are you talking about? This isn’t designed to help Americans “who have [significant] investments.
With all due respect, try reading what I wrote.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/18/2020 @ 7:55 amOK, fair enough. However, they’re obviously going to do that to some extent, which Trump has said, saying words to the effect of, “Obviously not everyone is going to get need a check.” So he’s on it. We’ll see what Congress does with that.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 7:57 amRemember all that never trumper nonsense about the deficit and out of control spending. IT was weld’s big issue. And mona charon and mIttens were squawking about it, just a while ago. Now, they’re on the other side! What principle do these “Small Government” fake cons have, except Globalism and a hatred of Trump?
rcocean (9d9291) — 3/18/2020 @ 7:58 amTime123,
The tax ideas are fine but at this point, given how turbulent things are and how adrift our leaders seem to be, I expect the Trump Administration to extend the April 15 tax deadline by 30-90 days. The money isn’t for folks who care about paying taxes.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/18/2020 @ 7:58 amJust for historicity, the 1920s were called “Roaring” because things were so good. The standard of living for most Americans roared upwards.
Even “the Crash” was a pretty garden-variety down-turn. The market had recovered within a few months. But for the new Progressive tools that allowed screwing with an entire economy, there would have been no “Great” to the depression.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:02 amTrump is the one who thinks he has a limitless wallet of (our) money to give away, rcocean. Clearly this Administration has no interest in balancing its budget, and Trump told us he thinks bankruptcy is brilliant.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:02 amWith the at home isolation, a lot of us have more time. This is a great opportunity to get in the habit of regular at-home strength training workouts. There are many options. One of them, if you have a sledgehammer around, is “Shovelglove.” It’s more low-impact than it sounds and is kind of fun. Special precautions are taken to avoid killing cats and scratching hardwood. There’s a whole website devoted to it.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:03 amCorrect. We get it.
We were also ‘roaring’ for the last few years, and now this.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:04 amrcocean (9d9291) — 3/18/2020 @ 7:58 am
You poor troll. Try reading the thread before you dive into a poor of stupid.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:05 amI think it is Keynesian, Ragspierre. It sounds like he wants to couch it as “helping people” but the goal is getting people to spend money. The result may be a lot of new TVs purchased.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:06 amWhat Keynes said makes sense were we some other species and behave differently than we do.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:06 amYou’re wrong. Most american’s are paid by the hour. When the Restaurant, Factory, Store, etc are closed down they aren’t paid.
Even if you were right and it was less tan 50%, having a huge chunk of the population go without income for several weeks will have a big impact on the economy.
Time123 (dba73f) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:08 amMost people aren’t going to go out and do a lot of shopping for TVs during a growing pandemic. Also, Amazon has suspended delivery of non-essential items.
Trump hasn’t suddenly become a Keynesian. He wants people to not have to do without food (making them upset, not to mention physically weakened) during a pandemic or lose their housing, which is likewise bad.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Do you people have to always assume a negative motive for Trump for everything? He’s conceding to the necessities of the emergency and working with both Republicans and Democrats in a bipartisan fashion to get us through this, as are leaders all over the world.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:10 amIt’s also hysterical to hear Trumpkins* talk about Globalism with Trump hotels all over the world, his and Ivanka’s Chinese-made schlock, and the Kushners’ multi-national construction and development projects.
*(Sorry, Munroe, I didn’t forget, I remembered that I promised Dana that I wouldn’t say butt-gerbil on her threads.)
nk (1d9030) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:11 amKeynes was a brilliant and insightful economist. He was a pretty good guy, IIRC.
He was wrong as hell about the one thing he’s most remembered for. And MOST of what I’m hearing from our ruling class is in line with the perversion of sound economics we call Keynesian.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:11 amYour comment was better put than mine, Time123. I don’t know what world Ragspierre thinks he’s living in if he thinks the majority of people have investments sufficient to get through this with ease, not to mention not losing money. Heck, most people with investments are losing money.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:13 amTrump’s rhetoric and policy positions are inconsistent. He makes himself look bad, not us talking about the erratic things he says and does.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:15 amI don’t know what world Ragspierre thinks he’s living in if he thinks the majority of people have investments sufficient to get through this with ease…
Now you’re just lying about what I did say. Your contempt for people here appears boundless. People can read what I said.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:16 amYes. I am not saying he’s perfect. However, he’s adjusting from his prior position to deal with this emergency, is my point. He doesn’t want to just give people money just because. Nonetheless, having determined it’s necessary during this emergency, having been persuaded by others to this effect, he is also going to want a stimulus effect.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:17 amThe only reason this is a crisis in America — I don’t know about sex-tourism sh!tholes like Italy and just-plain-old sh!tholes like China — is because Trump made it one through incompetence, incoherence, and deep down indifference. And he still has 95% of
nk (1d9030) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:18 amRepublicansmorons’ approval.You: Nothing approaching all…perhaps not even most…Americans have directly lost money around this mess. Some have lost some value in their investments, and that’s too bad and to be expected.
Time123: Most american’s are paid by the hour. When the Restaurant, Factory, Store, etc are closed down they aren’t paid.
What he said makes a lot more sense.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:18 amUm, no. It’s a crisis in a big proportion of the world, and a growing one. That’s what the “pan” in pandemic means.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:20 amYou’re wrong. Most american’s are paid by the hour. When the Restaurant, Factory, Store, etc are closed down they aren’t paid.
No spit?
Look, people are still going to work all across America. People are ADDITIONALLY working from home. You have no idea how many of us are without income right now. Nobody DOES.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:20 amOne thing overlooked. but mentioned in a letter to the New York Times is stores that owe the same amount of rent, but are doing much less business.
One idea could either be to defer all loans and other payments due for a a month, or maybe better yet would be to make all rent or loan payments due up to X amount of dollara for a month.
Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:21 amOnly schlemiels argue with schmendricks. — Old Yiddish saying that I just made up.
You guys can sort out among yourselves which is which.
nk (1d9030) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:22 amAnd we’ll see about the TVs (and cell phones and other tech products), all of which Amazon is still selling. The recent change was only in how Amazon is restocking its warehouses with household essentials for the next 3 weeks.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:22 amAND Amazon is reportedly hiring bigly AND raising wages.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:24 amRagspierre (d9bec9) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:20 am
Maybe someone could do a survey.
We could get statistics up to the first week of March (new applications for unemployment insurance this will work for people who lost their jobs up to about March 6)
And social Security payments, but they are paid quarterly, and I think in the new bill, expected to be passed by the end of the week, corporations will be able to borrow that money back without sending it to the IRS.)
Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:26 amOur goal right now should be helping the ones most in need who have been hurt by the pandemic, while also reinforcing the social distancing guidelines. Bill Dupor at the St Louis Fed has some ideas:
He also discusses making “Direct Payments to Individuals.” It could be done quickly, and it would help lower wage earners (who typically can’t work from home) but it would not be limited to them. He thinks it does not matter if they spend or save the cash, but it would not reinforce the social distancing goal:
I like the idea of temporarily increasing unemployment insurance benefits. It targets the people most hurt by the pandemic and gives them a small but dependable increase in income instead of one check.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:35 amThe Chair of the St. Louis Fed has some good recommendations, summarized below:
Paul Montagu (12db45) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:35 am1. Increase unemployment insurance benefit “replacement rates” temporarily and expand eligibility to include furloughed workers
2. Subsidize COBRA continuation coverage.
3. Make direct payments to individuals.
4. Provide fiscal support to state governments.
5. Penalty-free withdrawals from IRAs [and Roths].
Ha, DRJ, great minds.
Paul Montagu (12db45) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:36 am5.7 quake in Magna UT (a bit west of SLC) just after 7am local time.
I worked there for years, called a buddy and he says power poles down.
harkin (b64479) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:38 am_
We are on the same page, Paul. Literally.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:39 amEven if everyone agreed that should be done, there are better ways to do it than giving everyone money one time. Trump is engaging in a grand gesture while undermining the need for social distancing.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:47 amLike Romney, Trump is not a very good leader because the goal is vain rather than purposeful.
I really like your and Paul’s list but those solutions won’t help a lot of Trump supporters who do have jobs.
Dustin (b18b7a) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:50 am@$!$%*% matriarchy!
🙂
Dave (1bb933) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:51 amI’m still a bit fuzzy what a stimulus does when you’re trying de-stimulate. If people used it for food/rent, basics sure, but for a stimulus that’s not what its for. It’s complicated, so that worries me, whenever the solution is complicated with these guys, my gut says…queasy.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:53 amThe
stimulusbribe is growing exponentially even faster than the number of confirmed cases.It’s already up to $2K, and the day is young!
White House coronavirus plan aims to send $2,000 to many Americans, includes $300 billion for small businesses
Dave (1bb933) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:55 am92. DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/18/2020 @ 3:33 am
Joe Biden is wrong; everybody and anybody on the Trump administration, including Mike Pence, Dr. Deborah (Debbie) Birx, the White House coronavirus response coordinator, and Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams, ts wrong or incoherent, and the world Health Organization is wrong. The only person in authority who is getting close to getting things right and keeping his head is New York Governor Andrew Cuomo. He hasn’t gone below assemblages of 50.
Joe Biden is wrong in that the World Health Organization never offered any free tests to the United States. (The U.S. could have bought or made some of the WHO recommended tests, though.)
Debbie Birx is wrong in that there was nothing wrong or unestablished about their tests. It just wasn’t proven to work to the satisfaction of the United States Food and Drug Administration. But that’s not real. They are good or not good irrespective of whether the FDA approves of them or not.
Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams is wrong on that he said not to worry about a shelter in place policy because “anybody can do 15 days” because there’s no reason for the situation to be any better after 15 days. And because he’s talking about washing hands. (wrong disease for that)
The World Health Organization is wrong because it is still insisting that it is not transported through the air. And they gave this disease this stupid name.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/health/coronavirus-tests-who.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/health/coronavirus-surfaces-aerosols.html
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:w1gDTiyPV00J:https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/18/surgeon-general-social-distancing-not-enough-135377+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:57 amColonel Klink,
Give everyone Amazon gift certificates so the only place we would have crowds is at Amazon warehouses?
Yes, I’m kidding, plus we all know Trump couldn’t stand to help Jeff Bezos make more money.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/18/2020 @ 8:58 amI was just talking to my wife about Amazon now being a public utility.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:02 amThere is also Trump’s history of keeping his promises. (Which would make Orwell blush.) He’ll send a trillion dollars to his rich jerkoff cronies. He’ll send two dollars to his great unwashed, explain to them how it’s really $2,000, and they’ll praise him for making America great.
nk (1d9030) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:11 amhow about a moratorium on utilities? Gas/electric, water, internet, For me those are all private held. Gas/electric is heavily regulated, and pricing guarantees an investers a return on their $’s, so the persons getting hurt are people that have the money to weather the storm. Suspend credit card interest and late fees.
(I’m not really serious, but trying to show the problem of giving away other peoples money.)
Iowan2 (bbb95d) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:12 am$1,000 in April, and a second $1,000 (a month?) later if this is still going on.
106. DRJ (15874d) — 3/18/2020 @ 7:58 am
They’ve done close to that already (after all, some people have trouble getting to see an accountant to prepare their taxes) but the IRS said that if you have a refund coming, you should file your tax return. (this can matter to people who don’t have the IRS taking the money back and using it to pay some debt.)
https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/irs-to-extend-tax-filing-deadline-why-file-taxes-now-2020-3
Now the tax filing deadline still is April 15, but anyone can file a Form 4868 to postpone the due date to October 15. (it used to be August 15, with a second extension possible until October 15, bit now they do just one. Don’t treat it like a term paper.)
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4868.pdf
The drawback against doing that has been, in part, that if any payment is due, interest and penalties accrue after April 15, but now they won’t till July 15 at least.
Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:15 am132. Missing from the list is pay one month’s rent of stores.
Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:18 am45. Iowan2 (bbb95d) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:12 am
Those are not bad ideas, but don’t get to people without credit cards.
Many people who panic buy have probably run up credit card bills. For those who chose to pay wiht debut cards, maybe deposit some money on their bank accounts.
You can’t suspend interest. The government’s got to pay it or the banks are in trouble. The urility bill idea is a good one, but again, pay it for people.
Most important thing to take care of is commercial rent.
Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:24 amGood to know. I’ve never had to file for an extension to file a tax return, but will this year if it is not automatically granted due to coronavirus. And for pretty much the reason that I don’t want to have sit down sessions with an accountant now.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:25 amThe less fungible you make the transfer the more difficult you make it and more unforeseen consequences you’ll have. The least disruptive will to to give people money to use as they see fit. Concerns about wasting it are best addressed through means testing. In my opinion that should be done after the fact.
If you’re a software engineer making 100K and don’t need the money fine, don’t take it, or put it in the bank. If your household makes money cutting hair and tending bar like friends of mine (she cuts hair and he’s a bartender / assistant manager at a nice restaurant) You’re on track to make no money for the next 2 weeks. 1000$ might be meaningful to them. Auto workers make a good living, but if the plant’s shut down they’re not getting paid.
I don’t have the stats to say how big these problems are. But Greg Mankiw is saying it’s a good idea I’m willing to go with it. He’s a smart guy and knowledgeable about this stuff.
It’s too bad that last 20+ year of republican’s and democrats ran up such a debt that we’re worried about it when we need it.
Time123 (daab2f) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:27 amI’m of mixed feelings with this option. I understand trying to alleviate some of the pressure put on people for not working if their jobs get shut down and this is a one size fits all “fair” way to distribute a quick stimulus to the economy, though how they get to spend it if they stay home is beyond me. It’s the same as that one time 600 rebate sent to people in 2008. I don’t think that made a difference.
But what’s the alternative. Open things back up and see how dangerous this bug really is? I don’t know.
NJRob (4d595c) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:36 amFiling for Tax extension is fine. That particular law requires you submit a check for estimated tax burden, with the request for extension. Like everything we are talking about rules can be waived by fiat.
Iowan2 (bbb95d) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:38 amThe subset of people who actually need it might use it to pay the rent, so they have a home to stay in…
For me, it’ll go to pay off the credit card bill for the fancy iPad I bought last week to facilitate remote teaching.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:41 amRent/Mortgage. Bills. Gas. Food (grocery and takeout).
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:42 amI want everybody to sign it over to my daughter or to their favorite son or daughter because they are the ones who will be paying it off.
nk (1d9030) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:45 amPossibly the best result of this extended hiatus is to show how useless attending a University has become. Classes online at a tenth of the cost should be the norm. Let’s make education affordable again. Screw the “college experience.”
NJRob (4d595c) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:49 amThe deadline for filing IRS Form 4868 to request an extension to file your tax return is also April 15th, so I’ll just hold off and file for it if an extension is not automatically granted, which it probably will be.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:49 amThe numbers I have seen flashed on the screen show a .017 to .8% fatality rate. Using the number of confirmed cases as denominator. You could estimate the number of asymptomatic and lower that fatality rate even more.
Iowan2 (bbb95d) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:49 am“Classes online at a tenth of the cost should be the norm.”
Medical care too but for one reason people seem to have no care about gouging on either, all they do is clamor that someone else needs to pay for it.
harkin (b64479) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:53 am_
Only schlemiels argue with schmendricks. — Old Yiddish saying that I just made up.
It looked more like schmuck vs patzer to me.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:55 amThe problem is the number of cases one to two weeks ago is the proper denominator, which would raise the case fatality rate (CFR). On the flip side, undiagnosed cases not tested for would increase the numerator, lowering the CFR.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:57 amFiled under “Gone With a Whimper”:
The charges against three Russian “bot” farms and 13 individuals in Mueller’s so-called Russian collusion case were dropped with prejudice on Monday.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/18/2020 @ 9:59 amWe could get statistics up to the first week of March (new applications for unemployment insurance this will work for people who lost their jobs up to about March 6)
That’s where I’d look for a clue. As I said before, this seems the best way to target the needy. The feds could override all the payment limits and waiting periods, decouple the payments from the business’s premiums, while using the local folks to sort out the details such as previous wage (pay stubs). The “looking for work” thing would also have to be suspended for obvious reasons.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:00 am“A tenth the cost”…LOL.
I guess that would put a lot of janitors, food service and housing workers, bus drivers, etc out of work.
The number of instructors – where the bulk of the payroll, and hence the bulk of the cost, lies – will not go down appreciably.
In addition:
All labs are cancelled.
All student research experience projects, performances and studio courses are cancelled.
Cheating is much harder to prevent.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:01 amThe problem is the number of cases one to two weeks ago is the proper denominator
No, the number of ACTUAL ILLNESSES one to two weeks ago is the proper denominator. And we have utterly no idea what that number should be.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:01 amThe actual equation is total cases/total fatalities.
The best we can do is estimate. We can say for sure that using the current positives as the denominator causes a problem because of the incubation period. The CFR is properly calculated at the end of an epidemic.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:03 amDave,
In theory you would not need quite so many deanlets and deanlings. When I went to college I could name all the Deans. Now I suspect I could not count them.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:04 amMAOA,
You are missing the point. We can easily count fatalities. We can even count positive tests. But if we only test 0.1% of the population, based on symptoms, availability of tests, and willingness to take them, the number of “actual cases” could be off by an order of magnitude or more. Which is pretty terrible in a denominator.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:07 amGetting an extension is easy but you still have to pay the tax by April 15 unless they extend that, too. They might, but they need the money so they can keep spending it.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:09 amOne thing is becoming clear to me: this imposition on younger people for a disease that is most dangerous to older folk is going to case some generational resentment. OK Boomer! is going to transition to FU Boomer! Which is as bad, and as unreasonable, as blaming Asians (or at least those who don’t work for the Chinese government). But it will happen.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:10 amDRJ,
As I understand it, they are allowing late payments for ? 90 days.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:10 amBut what’s the alternative. Open things back up and see how dangerous this bug really is? I don’t know.
At some point they will have to ease up. If they don’t, there will be hell to pay in November and there may be some independent candidates all of a sudden.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:12 amThe number of instructors – where the bulk of the payroll, and hence the bulk of the cost, lies – will not go down appreciably.
The payroll for non- teaching personnel far exceeds educators. Administration fat is appalling. Move administration $’s to 10% of teaching payroll. It’s not just the sundry Deans, but they have each built their own little fiefdom, with all the assorted staff to carry out the mission of identifying exactly how many genders really are out there, etc.
Iowan2 (bbb95d) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:15 amI say there are precisely 69, no more, no less. Who’s to tell me I’m wrong? I think this is something we can all come together and agree upon!
(And with that I was expelled from university.)
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:18 amI don’t see why that would be. What the deans do has little connection to the physical presence of students on campus. This isn’t Faber College…
And further, at least at UC, deans are just faculty members temporarily assigned to administration. I suppose they are compensated somewhat more, at least the top-level deans that have responsibility for multiple academic programs and departments. But all the deans, assistant deans and associate deans, etc, are probably 3% or less of the faculty.
I think NJRob is right that this will accelerate adoption of remote learning (which was already very much happening), but I think it will also highlight its weaknesses.
And rather than sticking it to the academics, as Rob and some others hope, remote learning will expand the pool of potential students and create more demand for higher education while simultaneously lowering the quality of the product.
So be careful what you wish for.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:23 amDave,
I didn’t say stick it to the academics. We’ve long ago detached reality from the cost of education by subsidizing it and encouraging expansion of aspects of the college experience that have nothing to do with getting an education. This is a way to revert expectations back to where they should be: on that education. It will also make people realize how interchangeable so many universities are since their classes will be the same. No reason to pay 50k for the same experience that can be given at a school for 5k.
NJRob (4d595c) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:48 am165. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:01 am
But at keast half of the people who test positive aren’t ill.
Singapore is trying to track and treat every case, and so far, no deaths. (s of yesterday)
They discovered that, in one case, it was transmitted a group of avid singers who warbled and expelled respiratory droplets together, spreading the virus to their families and then to a gym and a church. That was the biggest single linked cluster. They even have a new antibody test that can detect people who have recovered, increasing the denominator. They managed to link two clusters with that to
All pneumonia patients in Singapore are tested for coronavirus and people who are seriously ill even without pneumonia “Positive cases have been identified at the airport, at government clinics and, most frequently, through contact tracing.”
The results: 266 confirmed cases. Nearly 115 patients discharged from a hospital. No deaths so far. (Of course they’re using drugs off label)
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/world/asia/coronavirus-singapore-hong-kong-taiwan.html
Latest on Singapore:
47 new cases today, bringing the total to 313. All newly detected cases to self-quarantine, effective Friday at 11:59 p.m. local time. Government advises citizens against any travel outside of Singapore.
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/03/18/world/asia/18reuters-health-coronavirus-singapore.html
Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:52 amAlso this thing in Singapore: No medical confidentiality here. The name (?) of every person who tests positive is quickly posted on a web site, and where they live, work and play, and close contacts go into quarantine.
Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:59 amApparently as long as you file, you can defer payment for 90 days, but that’s what Munchenhousen said, someone tell me when it’s an actual rule.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:59 amUntrue. Academic salaries are the largest component of the core funds expenditures.
Expenditures of Core Funds by Type:
Academic Salaries: 27%
Staff Salaries: 21%.
Employee and Retiree Benefits: 19% (these presumably break down in a proportion similar to salaries)
Equipment, Utilities and Other: 17%
Student Financial Aid: 16%
Senior Management Salaries: 0.4%
Expenditure of Core Funds by Function:
Instruction: 44%
Institutional Support: 13%
Student Financial Aid: 12%
Libraries and Academic Support: 10%
Operation and Maintenance of Plant: 7%
Student Services: 5%
Research: 5%
Provisions for Allocation: 3%
Public Service: 1%
“Core funds” are state general funds, UC general funds (essentially revenue from sources other than tuition and fees), and student tuition and fees.
Over the last 20 years, state general fund support for the University has remained quite stable at around $3B/year (inflation adjusted), or a little under 3% of the state budget, while revenue from Tuition and Fees has increased 7-8 fold. This reflects more students as well as students paying a higher percentage of the cost of their education.
The cost per student, in inflation-adjusted dollars, has fallen from $24.5K in 2000-01 to $20.7K in 2017-18. The cost per student to the state has fallen even more over the same period, from $18.5K to $9.4K.
The university brings *in* about $10B/year in federal support (about half of which is for patient care at hospitals, the other half split about 2:1 between research and financial aid grants).
Dave (1bb933) — 3/18/2020 @ 11:03 amColonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 3/18/2020 @ 10:59 am
I think he made it an actual rule yesterday, but it only applies if you owe less than $1 million and on;y extebds the deadline till July 15 as of now. The reason the number is so high is that because there are businesses that file on their owner’s personal tax returns and they might need the money to continue to pay their workers etc. Corporatons can owe $10 million.
https://www.cpapracticeadvisor.com/tax-compliance/news/21129660/2020-tax-season-payment-deadline-extended-to-july-15-as-nation-fights-coronavirus-irs-news
That sounds like it’s official. Of curse people can file a form to delay submission of any other forms.
Note:
Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1) — 3/18/2020 @ 12:24 pm@180. You know what’s missing from that list– the sports programs. A lot of bucks come in and go out for NCAA college football and basketball programs.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/18/2020 @ 2:14 pmScuttlebutt is it will be more than $1,000.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/18/2020 @ 2:31 pm@183. Considering Snowman Kudlow had a monthly cocaine habit of $100,000 [in 1985 dollars], Scuttlebutt would show better judgment as the Director of the National Economic Council.
Tell Trump ‘Scuttlebutt’ has a show on FBN– an hell hire him on the spot. 😉
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/18/2020 @ 2:40 pmSports are explained in the report I linked:
and
They fall under the heading of “Auxiliary Enterprises”:
Residence and Dining Services: 64%
Dave (1bb933) — 3/18/2020 @ 4:26 pmBookstores: 9%
Intercollegiate Athletics: 8%
Parking Operations: 7%
Other: 12%