Patterico's Pontifications

3/11/2020

Trump Addresses Nation On Coronavirus

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:49 pm



[guest post by Dana]

President Trump just addressed the nation about US plans regarding coronavirus. Although I would prefer to publish the entirety of his addres and let you make up your own minds based on his own words, the only complete transcript I can find is at C-SPAN, and it can’t be copy/pasted. So instead, I am posting a summary via NBC:

President Donald Trump said he is suspending all travel between the U.S. and Europe, excluding the United Kingdom, for 30 days beginning Friday as he seeks to combat the coronavirus pandemic.

Trump made the announcement in an Oval Office address to the nation, blaming the European Union for not acting quickly enough to address the “foreign virus” and saying U.S. clusters were “seeded” by European travelers.

“We made a lifesaving move with early action on China,” Trump said. “Now we must take the same action with Europe.”

Trump said the restrictions won’t apply to the United Kingdom and the U.S. would monitor the situation to determine if travel could be reopened earlier.

Trump said he was also directing agencies to provide unspecified financial relief for “for workers who are ill, quarantined or caring for others due to coronavirus,” and asked Congress to take action to extend it.

Trump said the U.S. will will defer tax payments for some individual and business filers for three months to lessen the impacts of the virus outbreak. He said the Small Business Administration will also make low-interest loans available to businesses to help them weather the storm.

“This is not a financial crisis,” he said. “This just a temporary moment of time that we will overcome together as a nation and as a world.”

Trump also reiterated his call on Congress to pass a cut to the federal payroll tax in order to stimulate the economy.

Trump said “we are marshaling the full power” of the government and private sector to protect the American people.

P.S. Most of the news outlets that I checked, with the exception of the Wall Street Journal, had this as their headline:

cnn

–Dana

273 Responses to “Trump Addresses Nation On Coronavirus”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  2. He… understands that one can travel to and from the UK and other places, right?

    Nic (896fdf)

  3. By “Europe” they mean “the EU” and they are still in denial about the UK not being part of that.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  4. He… understands that one can travel to and from the UK and other places, right?

    Sure. With the China ban, one could still fly to Vancouver and then enter in Washington State. Say, how is Washington State doing with this virus?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  5. NBA suspends season?

    harkin (b64479)

  6. Passports have country of origin and stamps where you have been.

    DaveMac (003349)

  7. Yup. A Utah player tested positive.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  8. @4 That’s the point, suspending travel to/from Europe does no good if all you need is a layover in London. Why exempt the UK? or bother suspending EU travel at all if you are exempting the UK?

    Nic (896fdf)

  9. @2. All he knows is Brexit means the UK is no longer part of Europe. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  10. @6 Ish. And mostly only if you come through an airport into that country. I don’t think the UK is stamping EU passports yet, just letting them through.

    Nic (896fdf)

  11. Megyn Kelly
    @megynkelly
    ·
    I’m so frustrated right now … that we can’t trust the media to tell us the truth without inflaming it to hurt Trump … that Trump has misled so many times we no longer know when to trust his word … that even I as a journalist am not sure where to turn for real info on COVID.

    __ _

    Right on cue:

    Julio Rosas
    @Julio_Rosas11
    ·
    Jim @Acosta says it is “going to come across to a lot of Americans as smacking of xenophobia” with regards to Trump
    pointing out the coronavirus started out in Wuhan, China.

    _

    harkin (b64479)

  12. “He… understands that one can travel to and from the UK and other places, right?”
    Nic (896fdf) — 3/11/2020 @ 6:54 pm

    The EU and UK have data sharing agreements with the U.S., so a plan to fool immigration checks at the airport isn’t going to work.

    BTW, Tom Hanks and his wife announced they have coronavirus. He was filming a movie in Australia.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  13. We cam always count on NBC to summarize Trump fairly and accurately. LOL. Anyway, it was a good speech, and now we can count on all the hysterical Democrats, MSM, and Never Trumpers to reverse course 180 and condemn Trump for caring TOO MUCH. And attacking the ban on Euro Travel. Because Trump either doesn’t care, or he’s hysterical. Only his critics are wise and right.

    And UK isn’t part of the EU anymore. They’ve been careful about taking measures to protect themselves. BTW, do people understand that anyone in Europe can have a EU passport? We can’t ban Italians and let in Frenchmen. It doesn’t work that way anymore.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  14. I Think we should let people with illegal drugs, contagious diseases, and criminal records. Because otherwise its “isolationist” and “Xenophobic”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  15. Passport stamps have gone the way of rotary dial phones, and for just about as long a time. Computers track you now.

    nk (1d9030)

  16. Does everyone entering the US get basic medical screening now, or only people from or who have been in certain countries?

    DRJ (15874d)

  17. Still wondering if lefty-run cities like SF will take human feces and used needles on their sidewalks more seriously now.
    __ _

    cta
    @cta
    Our crews continue to work all hours of the day to ensure trains, buses and stations are cleaned and disinfected daily.

    Learn more on what we’re doing at: http://transitchicago.com/coronavirus
    __ _

    Emily Zanotti
    @emzanotti

    what were they doing before Coronavirus?
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  18. Aren’t there around 500 known cases in the UK?

    Fred (2b8765)

  19. As for the UK exemption, it may be “special relationship” but I suspect that it’s Trump’s Aberdeenshire golf resort.

    nk (1d9030)

  20. Wonder when it’s going to sink in that it’s here and it’s only going to run its course.

    Hope they come up w a good shot muy pronto.

    harkin (b64479)

  21. One week ago I thought no way could a national election be delayed.

    Oh yeah – 2020 gonna be off the hook.

    harkin (b64479)

  22. Smart:

    Colorado and Indiana set up free drive-thru coronavirus testing centers

    American ingenuity. More, please.

    DRJ (15874d)

  23. Does the ban include cargo– or the mails??

    Hanks is in his mid 60s and also has diabetes; Australia has a good and efficient NHS so testing is accessible and available; so does the UK but the scattergun approach in America speaks volumes. This reminds me of the F-Troop antics of the Ford Adminisrtation trying to manage the 1976 Swine Flu outbreak.

    ________

    Senator Cantwell says a member of her office staff in Washington state has tested positive for the bug and will shutter her state offices for disinfecting and cleaning.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  24. WTF is the point of not including the UK?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  25. @22. Testing, one, two, free; testing, one, two, free

    Mikey’s Indiana goes socialist?! 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  26. @24. Did you miss the Brexit vote? Ask Mr. Trump: he’ll tell you the UK is not a part of Europe anymore.

    At least for this decade.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  27. Was space travel socialist when only NASA did it, or was it a vital national interest … like this?

    DRJ (15874d)

  28. I’m taking a dinner break from approving comments. Perhaps someone else can pick up the slack. I’ll return later tonight. You’re all so patient. Thanks!

    [Reporting for duty! – JVW]

    Dana (4fb37f)

  29. If you believe it’s unfair to describe this as the “Wuhan Virus”, I challenge you to watch this short video…

    https://youtu.be/9n40jIqY1IY

    Is it any wonder so many originate in China?!?!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  30. Eric Holcombe is from the Mitch Daniels wing of Indiana Rs, would be a D most other places.

    urbanleftbehind (dcd07e)

  31. Mayo Clinic, a private medical facility, is doing drive-thru coronavirus testing. As I said, smart.

    DRJ (15874d)

  32. Pediatrician told our DIL that this has been around for a while now, and that it’s mainly a concern for the elderly with health issues.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  33. I have had doctors say it will be no worse than a cold for most people, and others that said it can be bad for a wide range of people. No one really knows, even doctors.

    DRJ (15874d)

  34. Thanks DRJ, for your help on the comments. I’m going to fix dinner really quickly and then I’ll relieve you in a bit.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  35. Take your time. I don’t have anything else to do and I like helping here. It’s why I liked blogging.

    DRJ (15874d)

  36. I would like to understand whether this measure was advised by people who know what they’re doing, or whether it’s Trump deciding he knows better than all the health care professionals again.

    Dave (1bb933)

  37. American ingenuity. More, please.

    I expect Walmart will have a home test kit soon enough.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  38. At least for this decade.

    Why would anyone want to be part of that undemocratic bureaucratic state? Go read the EU Constitution if you don’t believe me.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  39. @27. Actually, it was- Russia started it. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  40. @37. I expect Walmart will have a home test kit soon enough.

    Made in China. LOL

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  41. I would like to understand whether this measure was advised by people who know what they’re doing, or whether it’s Trump deciding he knows better than all the health care professionals again.

    Several experts who were to testify before Congress today were taken to the WH for an urgent meeting. Coincidence, I think not.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  42. 33. They’s doctors an’ they’s doctors. Consider some of the quackery you see on the T&V, in magizines, and on the interwebs. A good doctor is hard to find, and you sure don’t want to give a bad one carte blanc.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  43. Trump pressured government employees to support his opinion of crowd size at his Inauguration and his statements on hurricane direction. Why wouldn’t he pressure government medical professionals to say what he wants about coronavirus?

    DRJ (15874d)

  44. Even good doctors may not know about this.

    DRJ (15874d)

  45. Not good news:

    Federally funded tests conducted by scientists from several major institutions indicated that the novel form of coronavirus behind a worldwide outbreak can survive in the air for several hours.

    A study awaiting peer review from scientists at Princeton University, the University of California-Los Angeles and the National Institutes of Health (NIH) posted online Wednesday indicated that the COVID-19 virus could remain viable in the air “up to 3 hours post aerosolization,” while remaining alive on plastic and other surfaces for up to three days.

    “Our results indicate that aerosol and fomite transmission of HCoV-19 is plausible, as the virus can remain viable in aerosols for 42 multiple hours and on surfaces up to days,” reads the study’s abstract. The test results suggest that humans could be infected by the disease simply carried through the air or on a solid surface, even if direct contact with an infected person does not occur. That finding, if accepted, would come in stark contrast to previous media reports that suggested the virus was not easily transmittable outside of direct human contact.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  46. This graph is pretty sobering.

    Just about every western country is on the same trajectory as Italy, some are just farther along than others.

    This one has a similar message.

    Dave (1bb933)

  47. @38. 1066, Churchill’s ‘United States of Europe’ and all that; it was highly debated and ultimately desirable to the Brits back in the early 70’s, K. They genuinely thought they’d be running it– not taking dictums from Brussels nor did they ever imagine a strong united Germany and the sudden collapse of the USSR. Events, circumstances and times changed. They’ve always had a love/hate relationship with the Continent; ‘Rule Britannia,’ British Empire and so forth. They’ll be back in the EU before the end of the century. The geography alone favors it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  48. Several experts who were to testify before Congress today were taken to the WH for an urgent meeting. Coincidence, I think not.

    Yes, well, that says nothing about whether it is something they convinced him of, or he announced to them. I hadn’t heard of any health professionals calling for a ban on travel to Europe.

    Of course, even if it doesn’t help much, it presumably can’t do any harm, public health-wise.

    Dave (1bb933)

  49. About that UK travel exemption –

    Isn’t there an international golf tournament scheduled for a Trump coourse in Scotland in about six weeks?

    John B Boddie (286277)

  50. Sometimes health care experts have their own political agenda. Michael Fumento was right about the AIDS hysteria when the “experts” were wrong.

    https://nypost.com/2020/03/08/coronavirus-going-to-hit-its-peak-and-start-falling-sooner-than-you-think/

    China is the origin of the virus and still accounts for over 80 percent of cases and deaths. But its cases peaked and began ­declining more than a month ago, according to data presented by the Canadian epidemiologist who spearheaded the World Health Organization’s coronavirus mission to China. Fewer than 200 new cases are reported daily, down from a peak of 4,000.

    Subsequent countries will follow this same pattern, in what’s called Farr’s Law. First formulated in 1840 and ignored in ­every epidemic hysteria since, the law states that epidemics tend to rise and fall in a roughly symmetrical pattern or bell-shaped curve. AIDS, SARS, Ebola — they all followed that pattern. So does seasonal flu each year.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  51. Dave,

    Those graphs are indeed interesting. Given the information in #45 (“Our results indicate that aerosol and fomite transmission of HCoV-19 is plausible, as the virus can remain viable in aerosols for 42 multiple hours and on surfaces up to days,” reads the study’s abstract. The test results suggest that humans could be infected by the disease simply carried through the air or on a solid surface, even if direct contact with an infected person does not occur. That finding, if accepted, would come in stark contrast to previous media reports that suggested the virus was not easily transmittable outside of direct human contact), it adds another layer as to why Italy’s rate of infection might be so high.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  52. According to Ken Cuccinelli, the Europe travel ban “does not apply to American citizens or legal permanent residents or their families.”

    Hmmm…

    Dave (1bb933)

  53. I’m reading that there are clarifications being made about Trump’s claims tonight:

    As
    @Noahbierman notes, Trump’s travel ban would stop Europeans from coming to US, but do nothing to limit Americans who travel to Europe, pick up virus & bring it home. Example of Trump framing a health crisis as an immigration issue

    Dana (4fb37f)

  54. But surely any returning American will have medical screening/clearance like the cruise ship passengers returning from a place known to have the coronavirus?

    DRJ (15874d)

  55. Even good doctors may not know about this.

    Right. And only the best will say so.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  56. Senate staffer tests positive for coronavirus.

    DRJ (15874d)

  57. Right. And only the best will say so.

    True.

    DRJ (15874d)

  58. Same with a lot of folks, including lawyers.

    DRJ (15874d)

  59. I’m reminded of a snatch from literature about an “uncertain trumpet” when I review this address. It’ll be interesting to see how much heart the market take tomorrow.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  60. Same with a lot of folks, including lawyers.

    Nay, nay. Like engineers, lawyers always know!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  61. Diane Feinstein wants US capitol shut down:

    “I’m just now coming to the conclusion that I think this place ought to be shut down,” Feinstein said. “It’s serious and it’s increasing,” she said of the number of confirmed cases.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  62. 61.Diane Feinstein wants US capitol shut down…

    Without pay, right?? 😉

    They just never seem to be able to get enough breaks or scheduled down time from their gigs, do they. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. The genius President said that insurance companies had agreed to pay for treatment of the disease with no co-pays. That’s apparently news to them, as they had only agreed to pay for testing for the disease with no co-pay. So, at the worst possible moment, our President is utterly incapable of staying on script and accurately reporting information. This is going to work out so well for us, isn’t it?

    JVW (54fd0b)

  64. That is unfortunate. But Trump has so much money, maybe he should pay. After all, it won’t be that many patients, right?

    DRJ (15874d)

  65. Another clarification: contrary to what the President said earlier, this is the correction: “Americans and US permanent residents who are in Europe will still be allowed to fly to Europe and be allowed back into the United States during this 30-day period. They will simply be screened & face quarantine or restrictions on their movement in the US for 14 days.”

    It’s not surprising that even in this, Trump couldn’t get it right. He had one job: Relay *accurate* information to the nation. If anyone took what he said at face value, then they haven’t been paying attention these past three years.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  66. What will peak first? CV cases or plaintive whines?

    When did Bush Jr pay for the war wounded, DRJ?

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  67. What will peak first? CV cases or plaintive whines?

    Hoping the duly elected Chief Executive Officer of the United States would report the goddam facts right shouldn’t be too onerous of a request, even for one of his cultists, Munroe. Especially when we all know that the media is just lying in wait for him to slip up. But this guys forever thinks he can just wing it on the fly, instead of showing a deep understanding of the situation, so there you have it.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  68. Megyn Kelly gets it right:

    I’m so frustrated right now … that we can’t trust the media to tell us the truth without inflaming it to hurt Trump … that Trump has misled so many times we no longer know when to trust his word … that even I as a journalist am not sure where to turn for real info on COVID.— Megyn Kelly (@megynkelly) March 12, 2020

    JVW (54fd0b)

  69. They just never seem to be able to get enough breaks or scheduled down time from their gigs, do they.

    Your guy Trump spends about half the day on “Executive Time” (i.e. watching teevee).

    I guess congress needs “Legislative Time”.

    Dave (1bb933)

  70. Fortunately JVW, a year from now we’ll have Biden making the speeches and being on top of things, and this nightmare of a gaffe prone president will be behind us.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  71. Apparently the markets aren’t too impressed by the President’s speech. Oy vey.

    Dow futures plunge more than 1,100 points as Trump speech disappoints investors https://t.co/fc5QxI7jD9— Pradheep J. Shanker (@Neoavatara) March 12, 2020

    JVW (54fd0b)

  72. That Trump opted to wing it, demonstrates to me that he simply does not have a deep understanding of the situation. If he did, he would want to take extraordinary care to relay only the necessary facts as advised from the non-partisan CDC, and be very thorough and accurate in relaying the upcoming policies and procedures with regard to coronavirus.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  73. Fortunately JVW, a year from now we’ll have Biden making the speeches. . .

    Yes, thanks to Trump’s inability to take this job seriously and put in at least a drunken college freshman’s level of effort to it, we’ll end up with the miserable Joe Biden as President.

    Do you need it in baseball simile? Trump is like the runner on third base with a long fly ball being hit towards the right field warning track and the fielder having a weak arm. All he has to do is tag up after the catch and trot home with the winning run. But Trump is the idiot who is busy looking into the stands telling the fans to cheer him, so he’s going to leave third early and end up being called out on appeal.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  74. Hm… it wasn’t identified as Trump’s stock market gains when it was going up, only when it’s going down:

    Trump’s stock market gains have been cut in half by the coronavirus sell-off

    Dana (4fb37f)

  75. When did Bush Jr pay for the war wounded, DRJ?

    When did W incorrectly promise that insurance companies would pay for wounded warriors’ care?

    DRJ (15874d)

  76. I haven’t read any other comments, but here’s my take…
    There are multiple bothersome things about Trump’s message tonite.
    One, even though testing is clearly our highest priority, Trump barely mentioned it, like it was just one bullet point out of many. How can we even know the extent of the problem when we have no clue as to who’s infected and how the infected became that way.
    Two, and this is related, how effective is banning travel from Europe when UK travelers and American citizens are exempted? This is Trump, playing idiot nationalist. He could’ve banned travelers from Italy, Spain, Germany and France, all of which have over a thousand confirmed cases. Instead, he let his xenophobia show in declaring the entire European continent as too dirty and infested to come here.
    Three, Trump said nothing about the need for avoiding public gatherings, despite the fact that the virus is easily transmitted in crowds.
    The man is in over his head, and people are going to die from his stupidity, incompetence and malevolence.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  77. Fortunately JVW, a year from now we’ll have Biden making the speeches and being on top of things, and this nightmare of a gaffe prone president will be behind us.

    On the bright side, we can join in criticizing a President who says or does something stupid.

    DRJ (15874d)

  78. Strike Three:

    The Trump administration and other officials scrambled to walk back three crucial components of President Donald Trump’s nationally-televised address on the US’ response to the novel coronavirus, COVID-19.

    After Trump announced a 30-day ban on travel from most of Europe to the United States, the Department of Homeland Security clarified that it would exclude US citizens and permanent residents.

    Trump also issued a tweet stating that trade of goods between the US and Europe would not be halted after saying the exact opposite in his speech.

    A major US health insurance industry group contradicted Trumps’ claim that major health insurers would waive co-payments on coronavirus treatments.

    DRJ (15874d)

  79. As for the UK exemption, it may be “special relationship” but I suspect that it’s Trump’s Aberdeenshire golf resort.

    And he’s probably not considering Turkey to be part of Europe (**cough** Trump Towers Istanbul **cough**).

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  80. For those wondering how tonight’s decisions were made

    Ahead of an address to the nation on Wednesday night, President Donald Trump is reportedly waiting on a final sign-off from his son-in-law before going with the White House coronavirus task force’s recommendation.

    I don’t know if this is true but given Kushner’s extensive White House portfolio and involvement in controversial decisions like pardons, it could be.

    DRJ (15874d)

  81. From the White House:

    The travel restriction applies to foreign nationals who have been in 26 European countries with open borders agreements, in the last 14 days.

    Those exempt from these restrictions, such as U.S. citizens, will be directed to limited airports where screening can take place.

    That it’s necessary for the White House to clean up the President’s comments after he gives an important address about a critical issue should trouble everyone – both supporters and non-supporters alike.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  82. Mayo Clinic, a private medical facility, is doing drive-thru coronavirus testing. As I said, smart.

    So is the UW in Seattle, starting with their employees.
    We’re at 373 confirmed cases in WA State, but I think it now means that more tests are being done.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  83. Paul,

    That’s interesting because CT, where only four people have tested positive, is also starting to do drive-thru testing. A ridiculously small number compared to WA.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  84. But Connecticut is close to New Jersey and New York, where there are a large number of cases.

    DRJ (15874d)

  85. nk was onto something, and it’s yet another case of Trump prioritizing his personal greed over his country: None of his properties in Europe are affected by his European travel ban.

    President Donald Trump’s new European travel restrictions have a convenient side effect: They exempt nations where three Trump-owned golf resorts are located.
    President Donald Trump’s new European travel restrictions have a convenient side effect: They exempt nations where three Trump-owned golf resorts are located.
    […]
    The U.S. government proclamation initiating the ban targets 26 European countries that comprise a visa-free travel zone known as the Schengen Area.
    The United Kingdom, which is home to Trump Turnberry and Trump International Golf Links, and Ireland, which is home to another Trump-branded hotel and golf course at Doonbeg, do not participate in the Schengen Area. Bulgaria, Croatia and Romania are also not part of the Schengen Area. All three of the resorts are struggling financially.

    Link. Also outside the Schengen Area is Turkey, where he has Trump Towers Istanbul.
    The man is unpatriotic, un-American, non-Christian and a terrible human being.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  86. Federally funded tests conducted by scientists from several major institutions indicated that the novel form of coronavirus behind a worldwide outbreak can survive in the air for several hours.

    Why did the word “weaponized” pop into my head as I read that?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  87. 1066, Churchill’s ‘United States of Europe’ and all that; it was highly debated and ultimately desirable to the Brits back in the early 70’s, K.

    EWvery place that voted on it, voted it down. So they all bet in Lisbon and passed it as a treaty, and the Brits were told they would not be asked to vote on it. Apparently the very best way to get appointed to an EU position overseeing your home country is to lose an election to national office.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  88. The reason nobody has read the EU Constitution is that is is composed of a set of treaties and runs 338 pages of legalisms. The Brits are well shut of it since it has virtually no democratic features.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  89. But surely any returning American will have medical screening/clearance like the cruise ship passengers returning from a place known to have the coronavirus?

    And will have to come through particular points of entry to be screened/cleared. Or spend 14 days as guests of the government.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  90. Turkey has just one case of coronavirus. Maybe that had something to do with it.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  91. David Frum nailed it:

    Trump’s Oval Office speech of March 11 was the worst action yet in a string of bad actions.
    Here are the things the president did not do in that speech.
    He offered no guidance or policy on how to prevent the spread of the disease inside the United States. Should your town cancel its St. Patrick’s Day parade? What about theaters and sporting events? Schools and colleges? Nothing.
    He offered no explanation of what went wrong with the U.S. testing system, nor any assurance of when testing would become more widely available. His own previous promises of testing for anyone who needs it have been exploded as false. So what is true? Nothing.
    Layoffs are coming, probably on a very large scale, as travel collapses and people hunker at home. Any word for those about to lose their jobs? Only the vaguest indication that something might be announced sometime soon.
    It’s good to hear that there will be no copays on the tests nobody seems able to get. What about other health-care coverage? Any word on that? Nothing.
    The financial markets have plunged into a 2008-style crash, auguring a recession, perhaps a severe one. The Trump administration has had almost two months to think about this crisis. It has trial-ballooned some ideas. But, of course, fiscal policy would require assent from the House of Representatives. Trump is still pouting at Speaker Pelosi. So—aside from some preposterously unconvincing happy talk about the economy—again: Nothing.
    There was one something in the speech: a ban on travel from Europe, but not the United Kingdom. It’s a classic Trump formulation. It seeks to protect America by erecting a wall against the world, without thinking very hard how or whether the wall can work. The disease is already here. The numbers only look low because of our prior failure to provide adequate testing. They will not look low even four days from now. And those infected with the virus can travel from other countries and on other routes. Trump himself has already met some.

    On a personal note, most of the school districts in King and Snohomish counties are shut down or will be shut down for at least two weeks, including where Mrs. Montagu teaches. This is probably because there are an untold number of infected teachers, some tested for the virus but most not. If I were to lay odds, I’d say the chances are better than even that we’ll either get infected or already are, and that pisses me off.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  92. After Trump announced a 30-day ban on travel from most of Europe to the United States, the Department of Homeland Security clarified that it would exclude US citizens and permanent residents.

    I heard Trump say that during the speech. Who am I going to believe? Them or my own two ears?

    Trump also issued a tweet stating that trade of goods between the US and Europe would not be halted after saying the exact opposite in his speech.

    He said nothing of the sort in the speech. Again, a lie by the media.

    A major US health insurance industry group contradicted Trumps’ claim that major health insurers would waive co-payments on coronavirus treatments.

    Bet you they do anyway. Pretty sure that Trump, Biden and Bernie see eye to eye on this and the insurers are a bunch of dumb punks if they think otherwise.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  93. Ooops. He did talk about goods coming in, but he also indicated that it was “being discussed” and offered no immediate timetable.

    To keep new cases from entering our shores, we will be suspending all travel from Europe to the United States for the next 30 days. The new rules will go into effect Friday at midnight. These restrictions will be adjusted subject to conditions on the ground.

    There will be exemptions for Americans who have undergone appropriate screenings, and these prohibitions will not only apply to the tremendous amount of trade and cargo, but various other things as we get approval. Anything coming from Europe to the United States is what we are discussing. These restrictions will also not apply to the United Kingdom.

    But he clearly mentioned that Americans who have been screened were not included in the travel ban.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  94. Sounds like Cleveland Clinic will have testing, too, and possibly with faster results:

    Update. The Cleveland Clinic has developed a COVID 19 test that gives results in 8 hours as opposed to the 2-3 days it takes for the other tests.

    They developed the test in NINE days, I repeat nine. Scientists worked 24/7 once the CDC gave them the okay on 3/2.

    I don’t know this Twitter user so I can’t vouch for the tweet.

    DRJ (15874d)

  95. Yesterday the line was that Trump was not taking enough action.
    Tomorrow the line will be that Trump is taking too much action.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  96. Trump said he was banning trade and cargo even though the ban only applies to humans. See the video for yourself at the link.

    DRJ (15874d)

  97. I heard Trump say that during the speech. Who am I going to believe? Them or my own two ears?

    That’s right, Munroe, it was a perfect address tonite, just like it was a perfect letter, just like it’s a perfect test. Never mind how the markets have reacted to it, or how his people are trying to backfill his botched message.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  98. Here are the things the president did not do in that speech.

    tldr;

    “We’ll see what happens.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  99. He offered no guidance or policy on how to prevent the spread of the disease inside the United States. Should your town cancel its St. Patrick’s Day parade? What about theaters and sporting events? Schools and colleges? Nothing.

    Clearly you did not listen to the speech and are just taking someone else’s lying words for it.

    In particular, we are strongly advising that nursing homes for the elderly suspend all medically unnecessary visits. In general, older Americans should also avoid nonessential travel in crowded areas.

    My administration is coordinating directly with communities with the largest outbreaks, and we have issued guidance on school closures, social distancing and reducing large gatherings.

    Smart action today will prevent the spread of the virus tomorrow.

    Every community faces different risks and it is critical for you to follow the guidelines of your local officials who are working closely with our federal health experts — and they are the best.

    Layoffs are coming, probably on a very large scale, as travel collapses and people hunker at home. Any word for those about to lose their jobs? Only the vaguest indication that something might be announced sometime soon.

    It’s good to hear that there will be no copays on the tests nobody seems able to get. What about other health-care coverage? Any word on that? Nothing.

    And again:

    Earlier this week, I met with the leaders of health insurance industry who have agreed to waive all co-payments for coronavirus treatments, extend insurance coverage to these treatments, and to prevent surprise medical billing.

    We are cutting massive amounts of red tape to make antiviral therapies available in record time. These treatments will significantly reduce the impact and reach of the virus….

    To ensure that working Americans impacted by the virus can stay home without fear of financial hardship, I will soon be taking emergency action, which is unprecedented, to provide financial relief. This will be targeted for workers who are ill, quarantined, or caring for others due to coronavirus.

    I will be asking Congress to take legislative action to extend this relief….

    However, to provide extra support for American workers, families, and businesses, tonight I am announcing the following additional actions: I am instructing the Small Business Administration to exercise available authority to provide capital and liquidity to firms affected by the coronavirus.

    Effective immediately, the S.B.A. will begin providing economic loans in affected states and territories. These low-interest loans will help small businesses overcome temporary economic disruptions caused by the virus. To this end, I am asking Congress to increase funding for this program by an additional $50 billion.

    Using emergency authority, I will be instructing the Treasury Department to defer tax payments, without interest or penalties, for certain individuals and businesses negatively impacted. This action will provide more than $200 billion of additional liquidity to the economy.

    Finally, I am calling on Congress to provide Americans with immediate payroll tax relief. Hopefully they will consider this very strongly.

    Sorry that was so long, but even the length refutes your “nothing”.

    The financial markets have plunged into a 2008-style crash, auguring a recession, perhaps a severe one.

    Uh, no. It hasn’t even fallen to the late 2018 lows. Maybe it will, but this is NOTHING like a market crash. This is not caused by any financial crisis, but fear and uncertainty over the economic ramifications of piss-poor sanitary conditions in a very corrupt China escaping to the real world.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  100. Trump said he was banning trade and cargo even though the ban only applies to humans. See the video for yourself at the link.

    Yes, and I caught that after reading the speech, and said so. Clearly that was an error in the text (whoever wrote it) and they quickly corrected it. It was even too absurd for Trump.

    But, whatever happened to rallying around the president during a crisis? Is #NeverTrump so incredibly deranged that they think that someone else is going to take over soon? We only have one president at a time, and this is the one we’ve got. Pretending otherwise and/or working against him during a crisis is not the fine example of patriotism they might think it is.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  101. Trump seemed to be reading the “trade and cargo” language on the Teleprompter but only people are part of the ban. Strange.

    I certainly hope no one in the White House shorted stocks today.

    DRJ (15874d)

  102. There are now 4 cases here in New Mexico.

    A couple in rural New Mexico who recently returned from Egypt.
    A person in the Albuquerque area who returned from New York City.
    A person in the Santa Fe area who returned from New York City.

    All are self-quarantined at home.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  103. Turkey has just one case of coronavirus. Maybe that had something to do with it.

    The three Baltic states have 26 confirmed cases, more than an order of magnitude less than UK. What did Estonia ever do to Trump.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  104. I didn’t see your correction until after I posted my comment, Kevin.

    DRJ (15874d)

  105. Trump seemed to be reading the “trade and cargo” language on the Teleprompter but only people are part of the ban.

    I see it in the text, but I did NOT hear it if he said it live. Probably because it made no sense (and would result in some terrific retaliation).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  106. I gave you a link to video of Trump saying trade and cargo is banned, Kevin. USA Today posted it. He clearly said it and was reading it, but why did they put it in his speech? Doesn’t anyone proofread or did someone think it should be done? Did they want the stock market to fall even more or just not care?

    DRJ (15874d)

  107. Kevin M, I was watching the speech. He said it live.

    aphrael (971fba)

  108. As for the apparent glee in the market reversal, you really need to check the long-term charts.

    On election day, 2016 the Dow was at the same level (17,800) that it had been two years earlier. After the election, it gained over 2000 points before the end of 2016. The inflection point is striking. It went up another 4000 points in 2017.

    As it stands, the DJIA, after this fall, is still 5500 points above when Trump was elected.

    If you blame him for this — a response to something beyond human control — you have to give him credit for the 11,000 points the index went up prior to that (which he arguably had some influence over).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  109. What is the value of a scripted national address if it is wrong, other than politics?

    DRJ (15874d)

  110. Did they want the stock market to fall even more or just not care?

    The US stock market wasn’t open. I watched it once and did not want to watch it again. Instead I found the transcript and corrected my error (#93).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  111. What is the value of a scripted national address if it is wrong, other than politics?

    What is the value of getting Trump to address this crisis if everyone is going to backseat drive anyway?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  112. Kevin M, I was watching the speech. He said it live.

    As I said, it didn’t register. My bad. I went and looked up the transcript and corrected my error immediately.

    Sheesh, a tough room.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  113. Interesting collection of all the conspiracy theories and hokum related to CV-19:

    Misinformation related to the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic

    Includes information debunking some.

    Probably the most amusing:

    Some politicians of India like Swami Chakrapani and Suman Haripriya claimed that drinking cow urine and applying cow dung on the body can cure coronavirus.

    Dave (1bb933)

  114. Question for those that feel Trump is responsible for the virus spreading in the US: What should he have done differently? And retroactive hindsight to years past is cheating.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  115. There is aftermarket trading and it may impact the market tomorrow. Presidents have to be careful what they say for that and many reasons. They can’t be some Joe Blow mouthing off.

    DRJ (15874d)

  116. Coronavirus was coming to America and elsewhere no matter what Trump did. It helped (and I noted it) that he tried to limit international flights from Asia, but acting like America was safe after that was not helpful. Also, like it or not, it is his CDC and the CDC dropping the ball on testing will blowback on the President.

    DRJ (15874d)

  117. What should he have done differently?

    Easy. He should’ve taken all the test kits that WHO had to offer instead of turn them down. But that was back when he thought it was a flu that would go away in a few days.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  118. Trump is betting the whole republican party as well as himself. He better not roll snake eyes!

    corona virus (7fef3f)

  119. I hope he doesn’t roll snake eyes too, corona virus, but not for partisan reasons. I’m hoping we’re not as fucked as i’m worried we are.

    aphrael (971fba)

  120. We apparently gave our allies no warning about the travel ban:

    Europe appears to have been largely blindsided by President Trump’s announcement earlier today that the US was suspending travel from 26 European countries.

    Several European ambassadors in Washington tell CNN they didn’t know this was coming, despite having been in contact with the administration over the past few days.

    One ambassador in DC said there was “no indication” Trump would go to the lengths he did, while another spokesperson said German officials had no advanced warning this was coming.

    “We knew something was coming on travel from Europe (more restrictive travel advice) but not this drastic,” the Belgian ambassador told CNN. “What is not understandable is the exception for the UK and the lack of national measures [domestically].”

    Dave (1bb933)

  121. I am giving out which means future comments may be stuck in moderation until a moderator comes around. I am sorry if that happens to any comments tonight.

    Good to see you, aphrael. Are you still on the East Coast?

    DRJ (15874d)

  122. @87/@88. It’s a sovereignty thing w/them. Always has been. Empire; alone again the Nawzees; Nelson at Trafalgar; Wellington at Waterloo, etc., etc. The pull waxes and wanes over the decades and centuries. 1066 and all that. It’ll cycle around again w/another generation before the end of the century. Again, in the modern world, the economics of the geography alone favors it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  123. DRJ, no, i’ve been back in San Francisco for a few years right now. 🙂 I am supposed to be flying to NYC for two weeks on Tuesday, but that seems like a bad idea now.

    aphrael (971fba)

  124. I am glad to see you here and know where you are. It is hard to know what to do right now.

    DRJ (15874d)

  125. History rhymes:

    The ‘Great’ Swine Flu Epidemic of 1976

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2009/04/28/the_great_swine_flu_epidemic_of_1976_212900.html

    The Long Shadow of the 1976 Swine Flu Vaccine ‘Fiasco’

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/long-shadow-1976-swine-flu-vaccine-fiasco-180961994/

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  126. Also, like it or not, it is his CDC and the CDC dropping the ball on testing will blowback on the President.

    The President appoints maybe 2 people to the CDC who sit in big offices and chair meetings. Nearly everything that is done is done by career employees. It wasn’t the bosses who dropped the ball, it was the technical staff. You can blame Trump (captain of the ship), but it’s not really where to fix the problem. Maybe the CDC should have spent less time on gun control and global warming.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  127. They can’t be some Joe Blow mouthing off.

    Or a JoeyBee. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  128. Easy. He should’ve taken all the test kits that WHO had to offer instead of turn them down. But that was back when he thought it was a flu that would go away in a few days.

    Hunh? All the contaminated kits? Personally gone house to house with them? What are you saying? And links to factual reports please for assertions of that sort.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  129. I hope he doesn’t roll snake eyes too, corona virus, but not for partisan reasons. I’m hoping we’re not as fucked as i’m worried we are.

    Some here are hoping otherwise.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  130. Yesterday, clerks in a store were saying all Trump supporters deserve the virus. I never said a word. Left the stuff I was going to buy and walked out. Pretty sad country. Best of luck to all, hope everyone is and stays healthy.

    mg (8cbc69)

  131. If I were a Ukraine Joe guy, I’d try to get him in bubble wrap, quick.

    mg (8cbc69)

  132. Ireland is an exception, too.

    Sammy Finkelman (9570ad)

  133. Yesterday, clerks in a store were saying all Trump supporters deserve the virus. I never said a word.

    You should have said something. You could and should have got the clerk fired, which they deserve.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  134. 114. Trump is not responsible for the spread of covid-19 in the states, but as usual, he is speaking like an idiot and utterly failing to clothe himself in any kind of glory.

    Gryph (08c844)

  135. Y’know, you’d think clerks would be smart enough not to alienate 40% of their customers.

    Appalled (4b57bf)

  136. I am supposed to be flying to NYC for two weeks on Tuesday, but that seems like a bad idea now.

    I’m supposed to go to the Chicago area at the end of the month for a board meeting for an NGO where I’m a trustee. Two of the other board members are coming from Canada and the UK. I’m betting this is 50/50 at this point.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  137. For those wondering how tonight’s decisions were made …

    Ahead of an address to the nation on Wednesday night, President Donald Trump is reportedly waiting on a final sign-off from his son-in-law before going with the White House coronavirus task force’s recommendation.

    Of course. Jared Kushner needs to analyze it for profit and loss to the Trump-Kushner crime family and their cronies.

    nk (1d9030)

  138. The three Baltic states have 26 confirmed cases, more than an order of magnitude less than UK. What did Estonia ever do to Trump.

    Uh-uh! The question is “What did Estonia do for Trump today?”

    nk (1d9030)

  139. The President appoints maybe 2 people to the CDC who sit in big offices and chair meetings. Nearly everything that is done is done by career employees. It wasn’t the bosses who dropped the ball, it was the technical staff. You can blame Trump (captain of the ship), but it’s not really where to fix the problem. Maybe the CDC should have spent less time on gun control and global warming.

    That is a remarkably naive statement, Kevin M. What can the workers do if the straw-bosses only care about keeping an orange happy?

    nk (1d9030)

  140. As it stands, the DJIA, after this fall, is still 5500 points above when Trump was elected.

    If you blame him for this — a response to something beyond human control — you have to give him credit for the 11,000 points the index went up prior to that (which he arguably had some influence over).

    This is downright irrational. The trend on the markets has been up for years since 2008-2009. It was so during the Baracula regime. Nothing any POTUS did appeared to help or hinder the TREND. There was a positive reaction to the Ryan/McConnell tax cut, which T-rump signed but had little to do with creating (as is his wont).

    Duh Donald can’t be blamed for the entirety of the market morbidity, but he damned sure is responsible for a part of it. Watch the market today. If it is down, that is pure cause>effect from the speech (the “uncertain trumpet”). If it is up or mixed, I’ll give the Orange Racoon credit for heartening the nation.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  141. What a mediocre speech.
    Good

    -His presentation of the severity aligns with what we’re seeing in other countries and with what his own experts have stated.
    -Tactical plans were presented on how to address it.
    -The delivery was adequately professional
    -He plans to do something to help people harmed economically by this.
    -Made an effort to ‘rise above’ partisanship in the speech and called on others to do likewise.

    Needs Improvement

    -EU travel ban wasn’t presented accurately.
    -EU goods ban made no sense and isn’t even planned.
    -UK exception wasn’t explained.
    -Clear ‘vision’ on how to proceed wrt to social distancing wasn’t presented. I get that we will have different actions in different places, but he really needed to rally the country in a common direction and didn’t do that.
    -Failed to address previous inaccurate statements and/or make clear that we will now be presented with clear and accurate information.
    -Post speech Tweeting when right back to partisan attack mode. I think this might be a situation where a different negotiating tactic might be very effective. But that’s just me. We won’t know unless he tries it

    Time123 (80b471)

  142. Forgot to add the mistake about what insurance will pay for to the ‘needs improvement list’

    Time123 (80b471)

  143. Also, like it or not, it is his CDC and the CDC dropping the ball on testing will blowback on the President.
    The President appoints maybe 2 people to the CDC who sit in big offices and chair meetings. Nearly everything that is done is done by career employees. It wasn’t the bosses who dropped the ball, it was the technical staff. You can blame Trump (captain of the ship), but it’s not really where to fix the problem. Maybe the CDC should have spent less time on gun control and global warming.
    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/12/2020 @ 1:15 am

    No. This stops being reasonable when the situation stops being normal. If we were talking about the CDC messing up day to day operations in normal times I’d agree with you, and judge the President by how they responded to the need to fix it. But we’re talking about an extraordinary event. At some point in the last 4 months it became reasonable to expect that the person in charge would assure themselves that we have a good contingency plan and are properly prepared based on reasonable risks. It looks like Trump has started to do that in the last week, after he had already taken a public position that turned out to be very wrong.

    Time123 (80b471)

  144. I gave you a link to video of Trump saying trade and cargo is banned, Kevin. USA Today posted it. He clearly said it and was reading it, but why did they put it in his speech? Doesn’t anyone proofread or did someone think it should be done? Did they want the stock market to fall even more or just not care?
    DRJ (15874d) — 3/12/2020 @ 12:07 am

    How much does working in his White house have to suck? Somebody that knew what was going on and had provided the correct information to the speech writers. They heard that, dropped a load in their pants, and then had to scrambled to get the correct information out ASAP. I wonder if they have a process for how to correct it when the President does something like this given how often it happens? Like how Obama had a way to sneak cigarettes?

    Time123 (80b471)

  145. Let me summarize media reporting:
    Though the US is acknowledged as being the best prepared country in the world for a pandemic, if anything bad happens, it is Trump’s fault. If anything good happens, it is in spite of Trump.

    This tiresome dialog has resulted in a large percentage of the population totally ignoring the media and with good reason.

    David Longfellow (44fae2)

  146. Kevin, youre sounding too much like your beta noirs the postman’s kid:
    http://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/don-lemon-heated-argument-john-kasich-trump-coronavirus-address-073154345.html

    urbanleftbehind (10d5cc)

  147. The China Uncensored YouTube channel has an excellent new video on how democratic Taiwan has much more been successful in containing coronavirus without the harsh totalitarian methods used in communist China; I can’t send a link, but I recommend you search for it on YouTube and watch:

    “Coronavirus Contained: How Taiwan Beat China”

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  148. Nay, nay. Like engineers, lawyers always know!

    Any engineer who says he “knows” something without attaching significant degrees of doubt and qualifications on that knowledge is not a real engineer. Most likely someone in management who pretends. Lawyers on the other hand are of course, always 100% correct because they come in after the fact, examine what occurred, and point quite confidently at what should or (more likely) what should not have been done. This is why lawyers are experts on absolutely everything and we should let them tell us exactly what to do and see how that works. Maybe we could try it, like on an island somewheres. Gonna need a pretty big island, though.

    PTw (894877)

  149. Federally funded tests conducted by scientists from several major institutions indicated that the novel form of coronavirus behind a worldwide outbreak can survive in the air for several hours.

    Why did the word “weaponized” pop into my head as I read that?

    Someone/something has been seeding the world with this.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  150. The CDC kits were contaminated, not the WHO variety. This has been reported.

    On Saturday Jan. 11 — a month and a half before the first Covid-19 case not linked to travel was diagnosed in the United States — Chinese scientists posted the genome of the mysterious new virus, and within a week virologists in Berlin had produced the first diagnostic test for the disease.
    Soon after, researchers in other nations rolled out their own tests, too, sometimes with different genetic targets. By the end of February, the World Health Organization had shipped tests to nearly 60 countries.
    The United States was not among them.
    Why the United States declined to use the WHO test, even temporarily as a bridge until the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention could produce its own test, remains a perplexing question and the key to the Trump administration’s failure to provide enough tests to identify the coronavirus infections before they could be passed on, according to POLITICO interviews with dozens of viral-disease experts, former officials and some officials within the administration’s health agencies.

    We lost critical weeks dicking around with creating new test kits when existing kits were available from WHO. Not only that, CDC reporting is so bad that we can only guess how many Americans have actually been tested, but it’s low, way too low in comparison with other countries.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  151. Federally funded tests conducted by scientists from several major institutions indicated that the novel form of coronavirus behind a worldwide outbreak can survive in the air for several hours.

    Why did the word “weaponized” pop into my head as I read that?

    Someone/something has been seeding the world with this.

    Of course it’s a bioweapon. I doubt Trump has the power and resolve to get to the bottom of who launched it (with plausible deniability since it was released near the Wuhan lab) and why.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  152. “Yesterday the line was that Trump was not taking enough action.
    Tomorrow the line will be that Trump is taking too much action.”

    No. The criticism is that Trump lies and spreads misinformation. Whether he’s trying to or not. Even when he has a prepared speech to be delivered catatonically, he f*cks it up so that we don’t know exactly what the policy is. This is the criticism. He’s a f*cking dunderhead.

    JRH (52aed3)

  153. Of course it’s a bioweapon.

    If only we had a federal government with a Commander-In-Chief, and a National Security Agency, and a Central Intelligence Agency, and a Defense Intelligence Agency, and a Federal Bureau of Investigation, and a Department of Homeland Security ….

    nk (1d9030)

  154. Though the US is acknowledged as being the best prepared country in the world for a pandemic…

    How are we “best prepared” when we’re at the bottom of the list on testing for the virus?

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  155. “Yesterday the line was that Trump was not taking enough action.
    Tomorrow the line will be that Trump is taking too much action.”

    And so what? So what? If that is what the orange chicken with its head cut off is doing? One moment nothing and the other running around crazily making a mess? So f***ing what?

    nk (1d9030)

  156. 45. This does not descrbe temperature and humidity, nor the percentage of virus particles that remained viable, not what quantity is probably needed to cause disease. (too little has no effect, somewhat more acts like a vaccination/ and even more should cause disease, with a lot depending on the person)

    Federally funded tests conducted by scientists from several major institutions indicated that the novel form of coronavirus behind a worldwide outbreak can survive in the air for several hours.

    [Is that the record or an average? Did they try out different temperatures and humidity? What survival percentage is enough to matter?]

    Federally funded tests conducted by scientists from several major institutions

    [Did some of them get different results than others?]

    indicated that the novel form of coronavirus behind a worldwide outbreak can survive in the air for several hours.

    [ Can survice. We’re not talking about, or shouldn’t be too concerned about 1 in 500 chances. A man can run a 4 minute mile. But how many do?

    And the important question is: Can enough of it survive to cause disease? In conditions normally encountered. At various concentrations of virus.]

    A study awaiting peer review

    [it probably should flunk peer review, but it should still be published, just with all possible details included]

    from scientists at Princeton University, the University of California-Los Angeles and the National Institutes of Health (NIH) posted online Wednesday indicated that the COVID-19 virus could remain viable in the air

    “up to 3 hours post aerosolization,” while remaining alive on plastic and other surfaces for up to three days.

    [Up to three hours. Up to three days.

    What’s the probability? what’s the mean and the standard deviation? And did they stop at three hours or three days, or was that the maximum and 4 hours or 4 days didn’t work? Maybe it could survive twenty days, if conditions remained right. Proof of concept is a ridiculous research goal for this. It doesn’t mean precautions should be taken if transmission is not impossible, and the fact that some virus can survive for at least X amount of time in X conditions doesn’t even mean transmission of disease is possible.]

    Sammy Finkelman (9570ad)

  157. If only we had an imperial president, say the Trump critics.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  158. If only we didn’t have rogue intelligence agencies.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  159. That infected Utah Jazz center showed mad skills by rubbing the mic and table.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  160. Trump should give some thought to nuking the ground zero state of Washington.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  161. I didn’t see your correction until after I posted my comment, Kevin.

    Yes. I knew that. No problems.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  162. Why is my comment @ 3/12/2020 @ 6:28 am “awaiting moderation” yet others are coming through?

    PTw (894877)

  163. That is a remarkably naive statement, Kevin M. What can the workers do if the straw-bosses only care about keeping an orange happy?

    There is a lot of these circular arguments today.

    1. Trump is an idiot.
    2. The idiocy made things go wrong at an agency.
    3. This proves that Trump is an idiot.

    I have worked for fool bosses before. You just work around them. Everyone does this.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  164. If only we had an imperial president, say the Trump critics.

    No, we have a moron as president, as all competent humans say.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  165. Though the US is acknowledged as being the best prepared country in the world for a pandemic….

    I think the rule is you’re not supposed to say what a commenter said is dumb, but this is dumb.

    Check out my comment about Taiwan above for what a better prepared country looks like. Hell, even Russia and Mongolia are doing a far better job than we are.

    Frankly, you just pulled your comment out of your arse, David.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  166. And again:

    Then: “Trump caused this by inaction! He can’t lead!”
    Now: “Who does Trump think he is, a king?! He should have just left well enough alone!”

    Folks, I am NOT a big fan of Mr Trump. I really really wish this was the end of Mitt Romney’s second term. But I don’t get that choice and neither do you. We have what we have, and we should try to make the best of it.

    If this virus is as virulent as they say — staying active for HOURS in an aerosol or on surfaces — this state of constant mutiny isn’t going to work. The government is doing what it is going to do, and resistance is futile stupid, harmful and probably deadly. We should be rallying around the President. The actions he has announced are NOT terrible. Perfect? NO. But I stopped expecting perfect long ago.

    Get with the program. It’s the only one in town.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  167. The Liberal MSM, David Frum, and the Bulwark Boys did NOT like Trump’s speech. Shocking and Surprising – given their constant support for Trump over the last 3 1/2 years.

    And in other shocking news, the Sun will set in the West today.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  168. It’s time for beige paint, and the rest of the cabinet to immediately call for a the ouster of Trump due to his inability to execute the functions as president, i.e., 25th Amendment. President Beige Paint makes me feel much more comfortable.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  169. Total US deaths due to the Wuhan virus? 38 per John Hopkins U.
    Deaths from Flu in 2018? 12,000.

    But as Barbie says, “Math is hard”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  170. No, we have a moron as president, as all competent humans say.

    There, did that make you feel better? Superior? Righteous? What good did it do anyone else? Are you expecting another president this week or something?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  171. If only we had an imperial president, say the Trump critics.

    Point to one, Marilyn. What I said and read does not require your Great Goad Cheeto to be either infallible or too powerful.

    Remember, this is the moron who has spent time suing news organizations over the recent few weeks. The same narcissist who has made all of his crap on this about him, while minimizing the threat and letting his tongue-bath bois openly lie about what it is we’re dealing with.

    Leadership is not complex. It can require no power at all, and still be effective.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  172. Why is my comment @ 3/12/2020 @ 6:28 am “awaiting moderation” yet others are coming through?

    PTw (894877) — 3/12/2020 @ 8:13 am

    There are dozens of spam comments in the filter surrounding legitimate comments, and most of the spam comments consist of walls and walls of text. It is difficult to wade through it all and find the non-spam comments. I started with the most recent comments when I logged on and worked my way back, because that is the easiest way to do this. Your comment was one of the older ones in moderation so I had not gotten to it yet. It is released now.

    DRJ (15874d)

  173. We couldn’t even get test kits right, David. We wouldn’t even get test kits from those who had test kits right. We refused. The U.S. response has been a total mess.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  174. Kevin, youre sounding too much like your beta noirs the postman’s kid:

    Better than sounding like Don Lemon. Even Kasich understands the necessity for working with the government on this. Anyone who doesn’t understand that is considerably dumber than Donald Trump.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  175. @163 “I have worked for fool bosses before. You just work around them. Everyone does this.”

    No, everyone doesn’t do this. Most bosses’ bullsh*t does not cause the stock market to crash. I’ve known shift managers at Wendy’s more honest and better at communication than Trump.

    JRH (52aed3)

  176. 144 Make America Ordered Again 3/12/2020 @ 7:11 am

    Of course it’s a bioweapon.

    It can’t be> Does anyone know enough how to create one? Would it be useful to have something that causes unnoticed disease for days, in only a fraction of people, for which you have no cure or antidote?

    Just because the government of China is hiding the origin of the virus doesn’t mean they created it.

    Now if you speculate about a laboratory, you could speculate like this: This, or another laboratory near Wuhan, maintained stockpiles of pathogens found in nature for general research purposes, including some novel ones (obtained from animals) that had never caused an epidemic in humans, and this one escaped, like anthrax once escaped, in 1979, from a Soviet military research facility near the city of Sverdlovsk (now Yekaterinburg) while Boris Yeltsin, was the local Communist Party boss.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverdlovsk_anthrax_leak

    Note also the useful idiot Professor Matthew Meselson of Harvard University, who couched for the cover story in 1986, but later on made a new investigation after Russia president Boris Yeltsin admitted it in 1992 (in the May 27, 1992 issue of Pravda, page 2, after having ordered a little investigation in late 1991 while the Soviet Union still existed) and a Wall Street Journal reporter confirmed it.

    But there’s no real reason to have this speculation.

    Sammy Finkelman (9570ad)

  177. There is a lot of these circular arguments today.

    1. Trump is an idiot.
    2. The idiocy made things go wrong at an agency.
    3. This proves that Trump is an idiot.

    I have worked for fool bosses before. You just work around them. Everyone does this.

    That’s not a circular argument. That’s a straightforward assertion. It’s not one that anyone has made. I responded to your point directly

    At some point in the last 4 months it became reasonable to expect that the person in charge would assure themselves that we have a good contingency plan and are properly prepared based on reasonable risks. It looks like Trump has started to do that in the last week, after he had already taken a public position that turned out to be very wrong.

    Time123 (80b471)

  178. This is downright irrational. The trend on the markets has been up for years since 2008-2009. It was so during the Baracula regime.

    I so wish I could post images here. The Dow was flat the last two years before the 2016 election. The MOMENT Trump was declared the winner, the market jumped a thousand points and didn’t really look back until this February.

    The fact though is that this collapse has to do with force majeure, not with any economic overreach. When we get to the other side of this, the economy and your portfolio should rebound quite nicely. Unless maybe you’re invested in a lot of cruise line stocks.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  179. I responded to your point directly

    Was I responding to you, or did you just decide the shoe fit?

    “Proving” a postulate IS circular reasoning.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  180. Just because the government of China is hiding the origin of the virus doesn’t mean they created it.

    China didn’t create it. It was launched near Wuhan to create suspicion of China as responsible.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  181. At some point in the last 4 months it became reasonable to expect that the person in charge would assure themselves that we have a good contingency plan and are properly prepared based on reasonable risks.

    Sure. And he asks his technical managers assure him that the test kits they are sending out are good ones, and he gets that assurance. What is it that you expect? Lawyers down in the lab running tests on sample kits?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  182. “At some point in the last 4 months….”
    Time123 (80b471) — 3/12/2020 @ 8:38 am

    For three of those four months impeachment took precedence over everything, and any attempt to raise awareness of a Chinese virus would’ve been dismissed as a diversion.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  183. We apparently gave our allies no warning about the travel ban

    This IS a problem, if true. Then again, we could have warned some and not others.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  184. “We are leaderless in this crisis because Trump is an idiot and both he and his dung-beetles are only concerned about the political consequences” is not a circular argument. It is not an argument at all. It is an inarguable fact.

    nk (1d9030)

  185. The three Baltic states have 26 confirmed cases, more than an order of magnitude less than UK. What did Estonia ever do to Trump.

    There is a subset of EU countries, call the Schengen Area, which features fully open borders without passport control. It includes all of the old “west” plus a few former Warsaw Bloc countries. It is this area that the travel ban pertains to, and Estonia is part of it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  186. @180, that’s not all there is to it, and even if that was all there is to it he hasn’t responded very well to the quality issue with the test.

    Time123 (80b471)

  187. “We are leaderless in this crisis because Trump is an idiot and both he and his dung-beetles are only concerned about the political consequences”

    1. Political consequences are exactly what the Founders intended politicians should fear. As opposed to something like the EU, where the commissions and boards and whatnot are totally insulated from the people’s ire.

    2. Starting with “Trump is an idiot” and following any chain of “logic” that results in “therefore Trump is an idiot”, IS a circular argument.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  188. Any engineer who says he “knows” something without attaching significant degrees of doubt and qualifications on that knowledge is not a real engineer.

    Not entirely true. I am utterly convinced of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and if you show me something that supposedly violates that I am not going to waste my time investigating.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  189. What a mediocre speech.

    All of Trump’s speeches are mediocre. Trump is mediocre. B’s hire C’s after all. Theonly thing that is true of Trump’s speeches is that they never go over anyone”s head.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  190. 1. Political consequences are exactly what the Founders intended politicians should fear. As opposed to something like the EU, where the commissions and boards and whatnot are totally insulated from the people’s ire.

    I feel sorry for DRJ who has to fish this stuff out. (Thank you, DRJ!) So, which is it, Kevin? The CDC’s fault for not working around the politicians or the CDC’s fault for allowing themselves to be led by the politicians?

    nk (1d9030)


  191. Anne Applebaum
    @anneapplebaum
    ·
    China has reacted to the outbreak of coronavirus in Italy by sending aid. The US has reacted by suspending flights. Who is the superpower?

    __ _

    Of all the media messaging right now, “if only we were more like China” is the bestest.
    _

    Related:

    “ Last year a mysterious shipment was caught smuggling Coronavirus from Canada. It was traced to Chinese agents working at a Canadian lab. Subsequent investigation by GreatGameIndia linked the agents to Chinese Biological Warfare Program from where the virus is suspected to have leaked causing the Wuhan Coronavirus outbreak.”

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/did-china-steal-coronavirus-canada-and-weaponize-it
    _

    harkin (89fd8e)

  192. The Party is right, the engineers are wreckers!

    nk (1d9030)

  193. Don’t thank me, nk. I like helping here, but it is harder when I have been away and there are several pages of spam. That takes time to clean up.

    DRJ (15874d)

  194. For three of those four months impeachment took precedence over everything, and any attempt to raise awareness of a Chinese virus would’ve been dismissed as a diversion.

    Trump’s China travel ban – which began in January – may’ve helped to mitigate the spread in the US and, as I recall, the Democrats screamed bloody murder about it at the time.

    If there has ever been a time for unity, it is now. But judging by more than a few comments here, it may take some time to penetrate the thick skulls that house the ever-running mouths.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  195. 147. Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/12/2020 @ 6:15 am

    I can’t send a link, but I recommend you search for it on YouTube and watch:

    “Coronavirus Contained: How Taiwan Beat China”

    Well, I found a couple of things besides the YouTube vdeo (I don;t know why you can;t link to it) and one of them is:

    https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/3/10/21171722/taiwan-coronavirus-china-social-distancing-quarantine.

    All that that says that they did is that, on December 31, which was the day after an email message that opthalmologist Dr. Li Wneling sent to his WeChat group of fellow alumni from Wuhan Unoversty with the subject head Seven cases of SARS in the Hunan Wholesale Food Market” and it went viral, and also the day China reported the new coronovirus to he World Health Organization (probably in an effort to beat back the claim that it was SARS, which they had been telling people who worked in the hospital who were not attending to the patients) – on that day they began screening pneumonia from Wuhan the way they had for SARS – which means taking their temperature and looking for symptoms of pneumonia. Even when China corrected Dr. Li Wneling and forced him to correct himself into saying that it was nor SARS, but an unidentified coronovirus, (which could imply it was someting already known) they continued, and they started holding a press conference every day.

    This is the list of things that Taiwan did:

    https://cdn.jamanetwork.com/ama/content_public/journal/jama/0/jvp200035supp1_prod.pdf?Expires=2147483647&Signature=bIZCLS7ZLWTJd~U~H40JgiEGdFb3ggVUJpBvJ7KdANK7HgK1zaj4uWHvqweGym1nWfO~nXt9Y5i1vX79pF7zjjqfzmJAy3udTdpVVZQe07xnQIPcBMXLwZ5XjgTO8yKFXVIpxsXhrmOu8sGSpKiEmQ86ZCKfOTar7fMAGmUCtjiYVFwf31K3REWAA-r3hZyoZpqz3QKpVgpsRpF9fV9thQCq0~yvbvRKTH4PcoB~CZgmXH7rpVb6bILXQn5zBCphf6pyLAa4zIebUEKfCdCYdSdi9LeIEUsesqsYpNWgHJcr4K1LC0hFlst0RHQz-vZ7I-OvrX~5jel6zjjtuDQzjQ__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIE5G5CRDK6RD3PGA

    Sammy Finkelman (9570ad)

  196. No. The criticism is that Trump lies and spreads misinformation. Whether he’s trying to or not. Even when he has a prepared speech to be delivered catatonically, he f*cks it up so that we don’t know exactly what the policy is. This is the criticism. He’s a f*cking dunderhead.

    Nailed it.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  197. This is the point I was trying to make last night.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  198. this should get me into moderation –
    Good to see your back, Col.

    mg (8cbc69)

  199. nk, your intuitions on Brazil’s current leadership, let alone the poor personal judgement of…, are correct:
    http://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-met-brazilian-official-tested-151800039.html

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  200. VP Biden weighs in on the virus situation, and none too soon.

    There’s no reason to panic, there is not. Look here’s brass tacks: we don’t know what coronavirus does. Not really. Maybe it’ll give us powers, cool powers. Might just be a rough ride for a tidy week. Might be worse. Been Googling it, getting mixed information so far.

    Link

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  201. Taiwan started off banning residents from Wuhan on January 22 and 23, and requiring tour groups from Wuhan to leave within a few days, while travelers from the rest of China were required to make a health declaration before entering. Later on (Feb 11) all travelers were required to complete an accurate health declaration form or being fined $5,000.

    They had Level 1 and Level 2 and Level 3 travel alerts.

    Hong Kong and Macau were in a separate category.

    By February 7, foreign nationals with travel to China, Hong Kong, or Macau in the past 14-days were banned, and foreigners could not use e-Gate (quick entry) but had to see an immigration officer and a couple was fined NT$300,000 (USD $10,000) for breaking 14-day home quarantine.

    This list carried things up only until February 24.

    Sammy Finkelman (9570ad)

  202. The length of time it can stay in the air without degrading as well as it’s resistance to heat (as seen in Iran) does make me wonder if this is a weaponized version of a coronavirus that escaped security protocols.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  203. Dave: We apparently gave our allies no warning about the travel ban

    Kevin M: This IS a problem, if true. Then again, we could have warned some and not others.

    They got 51 hours notice, and a few hours more if they followed the news onlinr.

    Sammy Finkelman (9570ad)

  204. https://www.macrotrends.net/1320/nasdaq-historical-chart

    There’s a visual aid for those who need one. The NYSE shows a TREND if you’re bright enough to read it. What the trend DEMONSTRATES is that the markets have shown a strong positive growth REGARDLESS of who the particular narcissist was in the Oval Office.

    As I stated earlier, Duh Donald is NOT responsible for the TREND. He’s not responsible for the entire downturn. His is CERTAINLY partly responsible for it.

    Clear now?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  205. If you can find a world map, it will (I think) show that the virus is NOT particularly sensitive to heat. There are cases in virtually all the Southern Hemisphere, and I don’t see a notable dearth of cases in the equatorial countries.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  206. While this is quite possibly a bioweapon, Chinese wet food markets with their wild animal food operation make cross-species transmission of viruses a virtual given. That’s how SARS came about. Could be the same for COVID-19.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  207. I responded to your point directly

    Was I responding to you, or did you just decide the shoe fit?

    “Proving” a postulate IS circular reasoning.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/12/2020 @ 8:41 am

    That’s the definition of a circular argument, but this is not an example of it.

    The statement “We know what Trump did is stupid because Trump is an idiot” would be a circular argument. The conclusion; “we know Trump did a stupid thing” is supported by the assumption that he’s an idiot.

    In this case the the conclusion “Trump has not done good job managing this” is observable and could be true or false for reasons other then if he’s an idiot.

    See the difference?

    Time123 (a7a01b)

  208. Say hey, mg! Hope you’re doing well.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  209. Trump’s China travel ban – which began in January – may’ve helped to mitigate the spread in the US and, as I recall, the Democrats screamed bloody murder about it at the time.

    If there has ever been a time for unity, it is now. But judging by more than a few comments here, it may take some time to penetrate the thick skulls that house the ever-running mouths.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/12/2020 @ 9:13 am

    I don’t disagree that we need to work together. I’m critical that the person responsible for setting the vision on what is needed is doing a bad job communicating that message and next steps in a way that is clear, accurate, unifying, and matches other available information.

    Time123 (a7a01b)

  210. Time123 (a7a01b) — 3/12/2020 @ 10:21 am

    I agree. I don’t suspend critical thought for any damn body or virus!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  211. I am utterly convinced of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and if you show me something that supposedly violates that I am not going to waste my time investigating.

    You will if that thing that I make starts producing stuff. I mean, you’d at least be curious, right? As Richard Feynman jokingly said when shown around the CERN facilities, “What? You don’t trust me?” That’s the difference between engineering and what passes for “science” today. Though your reaction would be supremely rational, all things considered.

    PTw (894877)

  212. President Trump on Thursday shrugged off complaints by European Union leaders that they were not consulted before he announced travel restrictions from Europe due to coronavirus — arguing that the E.U. doesn’t alert the U.S. when it raises tariffs.

    “We get along well with the European leaders, but we had to make a decision and I didn’t want to take time, and it takes a long time to make the individual calls,” he said in the Oval Office, alongside Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar, before adding that he had spoken to some EU leaders before the announcement.

    “But we had to move quickly, I mean when they raise taxes on us, they don’t consult us and I think that’s probably one and the same,” he added.

    Wadda putz!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  213. All those perfect calls, missed.

    DRJ (15874d)

  214. Nah, Ragspierre, while there are several things about America’s response to COVID-19 that Trump got wrong, and some right, getting things done quicker rather than notifying everybody is the priority.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  215. I am utterly convinced of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and if you show me something that supposedly violates that I am not going to waste my time investigating.

    You will if that thing that I make starts producing stuff. I mean, you’d at least be curious, right? As Richard Feynman jokingly said when shown around the CERN facilities, “What? You don’t trust me?” That’s the difference between engineering and what passes for “science” today. Though your reaction would be supremely rational, all things considered.

    While you may well be right about the Second “Law” of Thermodynamics (I’m generally leaning toward Rupert Sheldrake’s idea that the “laws” of physics are more like habits, which evolves as the universe evolves [I would add, probably via a developmental process following something akin to Plaatonic forms rather than strictly via “natural selection]), many, many, MANY of our models in physics are very wrong, including and especially in astronomy and cosmology. People believe, for example, in things called a “big bang,” in “black holes,” and that stars are internally powered via nuclear fusion. These are all wrong as are very many other ideas in astronomy and cosmology (neutron stars don’t exist, pulsars being something else [electric oscillators], not super-dense stars rotating faster than dentist drills; Sagittarius A* exists, and it is not a black hole; comets are not “dirty snowballs” left over from the primordial formation of the solar system; the solar system did not form via gravitational acretion; climate change is mostly driven via astronomy not locally; stars are not formed via gravitational accretion and form the same way and time as rocky planets form, through immense electrical forces driving matter and energy together suddenly like beads on a string; supernovae likewise exist and are not gravitationally collapsing stars—this explains how some supernovae apparently repeat; etc. … like almost everything Stephen Hawking believed as he tried to save Kip Thorne’s execrable model is wrong).

    So I wouldn’t take this putting a “law” of physics over observation as a law or anything.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  216. It shouldn’t always have to be Trump who handles details. He has staff and a State Department that can provide notice, too.

    DRJ (15874d)

  217. Most bosses’ bullsh*t does not cause the stock market to crash.

    1. Neither did Trump’s. “After that, therefore because of that” is a fallacy so old its name is in Latin.

    2. I have had idiot bosses cause the company stock to crash. At some point working around them doesn’t work.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  218. No. The criticism is that Trump lies and spreads misinformation. Whether he’s trying to or not. Even when he has a prepared speech to be delivered catatonically, he f*cks it up so that we don’t know exactly what the policy is. This is the criticism. He’s a f*cking dunderhead.

    And your point? We should all go to Wuhan and eat raw chickens? Otherwise you are just whining.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  219. What kind of an engineer are you, Kevin, if I’m right at all that you are an engineer?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  220. See the difference?

    And, again, I was criticizing someone else’s argument, and you have inserted yours instead. Apparently if the shoe doesn’t fit, you will still wear it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  221. Nah, Ragspierre, while there are several things about America’s response to COVID-19 that Trump got wrong, and some right, getting things done quicker rather than notifying everybody is the priority.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/12/2020 @ 10:57 am

    A more hilarious example of hack partisanship cannot be found in the universe than this comment.

    Just having someone contact these other nations to let them know would take 20 minutes. Trump has a lot of senior staff. The idea this was some Jack Bauer emergency and seconds mattered is a lie. It’s not like MAOA’s defense is even accurate. Trump was being disrespectful because he is thin skinned about tariffs. He simply said this.

    A little leadership and diplomatic credibility will go a long way towards our nation’s prestige. Over the long term, that matters to stability. As this coronavirus thing turns into an economic disaster, I am sure we will hear from Trump and his fans that nothing is ever Trump’s fault. To some extent this is true. Many want Trump out (for great reason) and will endure an economic hardship to ensure he’s out. Yet they want him out for good reason.

    The more Trump and his fans sneer that they don’t have to respect others, even our allies, or our citizens, the more likely it is that Biden will be the president soon. And that will bring us back to all those “Lock her up” rally chants. Trump fans don’t have a leg to stand on when they say it’s unfair to put Trump in prison.

    Dustin (9c58b3)

  222. I’m critical that the person responsible for setting the vision on what is needed is doing a bad job communicating that message and next steps in a way that is clear, accurate, unifying, and matches other available information.

    Of course he is. He’s Trump. Deal with it. If Hillary was president it would be the same thing, but “for the children.”

    I spent all of 2016 saying “Oh, NO! Mr Bill” and hoping against hope that the GOP would not had the keys to this fool. Yet they did. And he won. I have learned in life that if you don’t accept what you cannot change you will be miserable. I prefer not to be miserable.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  223. Nah, Ragspierre, while there are several things about America’s response to COVID-19 that Trump got wrong, and some right, getting things done quicker rather than notifying everybody is the priority.

    BS. He has people for that. Send out ONE flicking email to “all the ships at sea” (so to speak). If there isn’t a file with every EU head-of-state’s address on it to address them all at once, somebody in WH communications is an idiot.

    But arguendo, they are idiots; it would take one person MUCH less than a half-hour.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  224. 202. NJRob (4d595c) — 3/12/2020 @ 9:41 am

    The length of time it can stay in the air without degrading as well as it’s resistance to heat (as seen in Iran)

    Where do you get this information that the idea that it’s more resistant to heat, and that that can be learned from wht is happening in Iran? I didn’t read anything like this.

    Sammy Finkelman (a738e8)

  225. BS. He has people for that. Send out ONE flicking email to “all the ships at sea” (so to speak). If there isn’t a file with every EU head-of-state’s address on it to address them all at once, somebody in WH communications is an idiot.

    I certainly get your point as to he can delegate notification. I also thought about it before posting my comment and it’s valid. However, if the decision was made late, which it seems to have been, then he shouldn’t delay to notify these countries: notifying both them and the American people as soon as possible instead is legit. That’s my point.

    It would have been ideal if they’d made the decision much quicker as both Russia and Mongolia, to name two, did. They’ve had much better results as a result, but then again, I don’t think they stopped to tell us first.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  226. Plus I think he’s a little pissed at these countries for sending a bunch of COVID-19 cases to America, tbh.

    Whether that’s a legit complaint is another question because, presumably, Americans, some of whom may have COVID-19, are flying elsewhere.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  227. However, if the decision was made late, which it seems to have been, then he shouldn’t delay to notify these countries: notifying both them and the American people as soon as possible instead is legit. That’s my point.

    This wasn’t an instantaneous decision. They pondered it for days, at the least. They knew they were going to make some kind of decision and that it involved Europe. If they rushed this in any way it was only to make sure Trump was on TV in primetime.

    DRJ (15874d)

  228. The pondering part is not the decision part and you don’t notify someone something is going to happen while pondering it.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  229. If they rushed this in any way it was only to make sure Trump was on TV in primetime.

    Well, yeah.

    That’s when you would ideally want the President to deliver an important address.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  230. Well, this is troubling (from a NYT reporter):

    Just arrived at JFK from Paris. Zero screening, testing or even questions related to coronavirus (and the Global Entry scanner spit out someone else’s entry receipt for me, and the guy behind me got mine, and so on)

    My wife went through regular customs and was asked if she’d been to China, but that was it. No one asked me a single question, and any other “screening” was nonexistent.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  231. What kind of an engineer are you, Kevin, if I’m right at all that you are an engineer?

    Firmware and digital logic, in commercial comm systems mostly.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  232. Mrs.Trudeau has the virus too:

    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and his wife Sophie are in self-isolation after she came down with flu-like symptoms and was tested for the new coronavirus, according to an official statement on Thursday.

    The 48-year-old Liberal leader is exhibiting no symptoms and will continue to work from home until the results of his wife’s test comes in, the statement said. However, face-to-face meetings with provincial premiers scheduled for Thursday and Friday will instead be held by phone.

    “Having recently returned from a speaking engagement in London, UK, the Prime Minister’s wife Sophie Grégoire Trudeau began exhibiting mild flu-like symptoms including a low fever late last night,” the statement from the prime minister’s office read.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  233. Because the new ban doesn’t start until Friday. They may not be able to legally start yet.

    An alternative would have been to wait on issuing orders until everything could be rolled out smoothly, but politicians often prefer to appear to be doing things rather than actually be doing things. It isn’t just Trump but he is a big fan of instant gratification.

    DRJ (15874d)

  234. Well, this is troubling (from a NYT reporter)

    This is why I’m not worked up about Trump. The whole thing has been incompetent and rotten for quite some time. Hopefully Trump can break some of it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  235. Just arrived [March 12th] at JFK from Paris. Zero screening, testing or even questions related to coronavirus

    Meanwhile, Taiwan has been sending health officials onto incoming flights to screen passengers before deplaning since December 31st.

    But America has the best pandemic handling in the world according to David Longfellow.

    Harrumph.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  236. If Trump were a D&D character, he’d be Chaotic Neutral. Heavy on the Chaotic.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  237. many, many, MANY of our models in physics are very wrong

    Sure, but not 2nd Thermo. It is fundamental to all kinds of things.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  238. Sure, but not 2nd Thermo. It is fundamental to all kinds of things.

    We don’t know where and how the main source(s) of power is (are) generated in the universe. It wasn’t the big bang (which didn’t happen). We can be increasingly sure how power circulates, though.

    Are you an electrical or other kind of engineer?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  239. The ban notwithstanding, it’s surprising that, at such a huge international airport, there isn’t any serious protocol already in place.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  240. “Well, this is troubling (from a NYT reporter):”

    Must be liberal media lies. After all, trump told us:

    “We have heavily tested. If an American coming back or anybody coming back, we have a tremendous testing set up where people coming in have to be tested … if it shows positive … We have to quarantine.”

    Davethulhu (fe4242)

  241. Consider this:

    John F. Kennedy, Los Angeles and San Francisco international airports were the first to start screening for the coronavirus, followed by O’Hare and Hartsfield-Jackson international airports. The screening was increased to a total of 20 airports across the US within a week.

    Clearly the definition of “screening” is in question. Apparently a detailed list of what a “screening” should entail, needs to be addressed with regard to all US airports. In my link above, the husband was not screened at all, and the wife only asked if she had travelled to China.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  242. 235. Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/12/2020 @ 12:09 pm

    Meanwhile, Taiwan has been sending health officials onto incoming flights to screen passengers before deplaning since December 31st.

    Originally, only those on direct flights from Wuhan, China, when they thought it was SARS because of the message sent out by Dr. Li Wenliang on December 30 to his WeChat group of fellow almuni of Wuhan Unversity, and they got a hit by January 5.

    Dr. Li Wenliang’s messge was headed “Seven cases of SARS in the Huhan Wholesale Food Market” and went viral.

    He had corrected it within an hour to say that it wasn’t specifically SARS but an unknown coronovirus, but only the original only went viral.

    By Jan 23 travelers from China required to make a health declaration before entering.

    On February 5, cruise ships with suspected cases in the past 28 days were banned, and also cruise ships with previous dockings in China, Hong Kong, or Macau in the past 14 days, cse or not case, wwre banned, and on February 6. all Chinese nationals and intternational cruise ships were banned.

    Sammy Finkelman (a738e8)

  243. Well, this is troubling (from a NYT reporter)

    This is why I’m not worked up about Trump. The whole thing has been incompetent and rotten for quite some time. Hopefully Trump can break some of it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/12/2020 @ 12:08 pm

    What makes you think he’ll have any positive impact at all? His typical MO is to say that everything that came before him was crap but that now that he’s in charge it’s fixed. Regardless of any underlying changes.

    Time123 (353edd)

  244. many, many, MANY of our models in physics are very wrong

    Sure, but not 2nd Thermo. It is fundamental to all kinds of things.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/12/2020 @ 12:11 pm

    Agreed, but it’s almost a trivial obersvation at this point.

    Time123 (353edd)

  245. 241. Dana (4fb37f) — 3/12/2020 @ 12:26 pm

    Clearly the definition of “screening” is in question.

    For SARS, and ebola, it was good enough to see if someone had a fever or signs of illness, but not for this new one, so they do nothing or screen out on the basis of geography, while assuming it will take 14 days for someone to demonstrate they don’t have the disease if they were in a jurisdiction with community spread, or in possible contact with someone who had it – even before that someone showed any symptoms.

    Sammy Finkelman (a738e8)

  246. If there is one lesson of the Trump presidency, it’s that he can’t change to fit the circumstances; he makes the circumstances fit him. That has worked surprisingly well for him. But it may be that the virus is immune to Trump’s powers. It’s almost as if he had a better reason than we thought to be a germaphobe.–Jonah Goldberg

    By “making the circumstances change to fit him”, read “lies”.

    Being gas-lighted may be OK with the Kevins of the nation. It is not OK with me, or apparently most voters.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  247. Agreed, but it’s [scientific stuff] almost a trivial obersvation at this point.

    There’s more to life than trying to survive.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  248. I think that there are a awful lot of infected people on the Blog.

    LYNN HARGROVE (740caa)

  249. His typical MO is to say that everything that came before him was crap but that now that he’s in charge it’s fixed. Regardless of any underlying changes.

    Trump is constantly telling us how he views any issue — Does this help me? Are people applauding me? — yet his defenders keep insisting that he doesn’t really look at things that way. It’s as if they don’t believe what he says.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  250. Note to the trolls — not spammers — who are posting here. You picked a really dumb time to troll considering how all comments are going into moderation. Not only will your submission not be published, but your fake email address and IP will go to the permanent block list.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  251. January 22:
    Trump: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”

    February 2:
    Trump: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

    February 10:
    Trump: “A lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat—as the heat comes in.”

    White House acting budget director Russell Vought: “Coronavirus is not something that is going to have ripple effects.”

    February 24:
    Trump: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. . . . Stock Market starting to look very good to me.”

    Trump’s top economic adviser, Larry Kudlow: “You should seriously consider buying these [stock market] dips”

    [Note: The Dow Jones ended February 24 at 27,960. It closed March 11 at 23,553.]

    February 26:
    Trump: “[The number of people infected is] going very substantially down, not up.” “The 15 [cases] within a couple of days, is going to be down to zero.” [Note: Two weeks later, as we compiled this list on March 11, there were over 1,000 confirmed cases in the United States.]

    February 27:
    Trump: “It’s going to disappear one day, it’s like a miracle.”

    February 28:
    Eric Trump: “In my opinion, it’s a great time to buy stocks or into your 401k. I would be all in . . . let’s see if I’m right.” [Note: The stock market closed at 25,409 on February 28. It closed at 23,553 on March 11.]

    March 2:
    Trump on a coronavirus vaccine: “I’ve heard very quick numbers, that of months.” [Note: Immunologist Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, has repeatedly said that a vaccine will not be available for a year or year and a half.]

    March 6:
    Trump: “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it. . . . Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”

    Trump: “I didn’t know people died from the flu.”

    Trump on whether or not to bring coronavirus patients on a cruise ship to shore: “I like the numbers being where they are.”

    Trump: “Anybody who wants a test gets a test.” [Note. This was a lie at the time and remains dangerously untrue today. The previous day, Vice President Mike Pence said, “We don’t have enough tests today to meet what we anticipate will be the demand going forward.”]

    Larry Kudlow: “We stopped it, it was a very early shut down, I would still argue to you that this thing is contained.”

    Larry Kudlow: “Investors should think about buying these dips.” [Note: The Dow Jones closed at 25,864 on March 6, over 2,300 points lower than the previous time Kudlow suggested investors “buy the dip.”]

    March 9:
    Trump: “Good for the consumer, gasoline prices coming down!”

    Trump: “So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths.”

    March 10:
    Trump: “It will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.”

    March 11:
    Trump: “If we get rid of the coronavirus problem quickly, we won’t need [economic] stimulus.”

    Trump [in response to a question from CNN’s Jim Acosta asking what he would “say to Americans who say you are not taking this seriously enough and that some of your statements don’t match what health experts are saying”]: “That’s CNN. Fake news.”

    March 12:
    Trump: “We have ’em very heavily tested. If an American’s coming back, or anybody’s coming back, we’re testing. We have a tremendous testing setup where people coming in have to be tested. And if they are positive, and if they’re able to get through—because, frankly, if they’re not, we’re not putting them on planes, if it shows positive…” [Note. This is not true.]

    That’s from The Bulwark. rcpuddles can check it out.

    Winning? Only at gas-lighting.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  252. http://jaltcoh.blogspot.com/2020/03/the-many-false-statements-in-trumps.html

    (Trump said he’s suspending “all” travel from Europe to the USA. It’s not all Europe, it’s not all people, and it is not only travel directly from Europe to the US, but people who’ve been to the restricted European countries within 14 days of coming here, and he was wrong to say it included cargo.

    He also said that all copays for coronavirus treatment will be waived, which isn;t quite accurate)

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  253. It is very difficult to actually get a test where I live, even if you have the symptoms. Hospitals and labs don’t want sick patients showing up and infecting others so they send you to your physician or special screening centers. Public and private labs will run tests but they won’t take samples. You have to have samples drawn by the screening center or the doctor. BUT … the screening center and local doctors say they aren’t equipped to safely take samples (oral or nasal swabs) with high-risk diseases, so they send you to labs or the hospital ER — all of which refuse to draw samples.

    And thru it all, everyone says the risk is low because this area has no confirmed cases. Duh. Of course they don’t. No one can get tested.

    DRJ (15874d)

  254. Wow:

    Among the advisers who share the president’s more jaundiced view [of the strong reactions to the coronavirus outbreak] is his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who considers the problem more about public psychology than a health reality, according to people who have spoken with him. Mr. Kushner has gotten more involved in the response in recent days, according to three White House advisers.

    Marc Short, Mr. Pence’s chief of staff, approached Mr. Kushner on Monday about integrating the White House teams working on the issue, as the vice president’s communications shop is overrun with media requests. After that, Mr. Kushner seized more of a role, spending Wednesday with Mr. Trump, the officials said.

    One administration official said on Thursday that Mr. Kushner, his wife, Ivanka Trump, and Hope Hicks, a presidential adviser who has just returned to the White House, favored Mr. Trump giving Wednesday night’s prime-time address to calm the waters amid rampaging uncertainty and fear.

    Ms. Trump, the president’s eldest daughter, in particular favored the address, according to three administration officials. But the subject quickly became contentious internally, according to several administration officials. Drafts were written and rewritten, with Mr. Kushner seen as in charge as the president’s chief speechwriter, Stephen Miller, wrote, and the communications office of the West Wing left out of the discussions.

    By early evening, only two hours before the camera was to go on, it was still not entirely clear what Mr. Trump was going to say. In a meeting in the Cabinet Room, a number of top officials told the president the speech was a good idea, with a notable exception being the Treasury secretary, Steven Mnuchin, who said that Mr. Trump ought to wait at least a day or two so as to provide officials with more information.

    When the camera turned on, the president appeared uncomfortable, reading words from the teleprompter in a stiff manner that made no emotional connection to a television audience of millions scared about a virus they cannot see and uncertain about a society rapidly transforming around them. Even with the text on the screen, the president mischaracterized his own policies in a way that required his administration to correct him afterward.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  255. One would think with all of Trump’s TV experience he would have developed an engaging personality, but that’s not how it works. He bought his fame, his women, his advisors. He never had to earn it through leadership or skill. In this way, George W Bush casts a tall shadow over Trump as the far superior president.

    Of course, the question isn’t whether Trump is a trustworthy man we respect. It’s whether his lacking qualities even matters. Would a great leader make a difference? In the planning (Trump gutted a lot of things and his administration has lost many good decision makers without replacing them), in the execution (his own admin has no idea what direction they are going in from day to day, and probably need to watch Tucker Carlson to know what’s going to happen), I think we’re seeing that it still matters.

    And thru it all, everyone says the risk is low because this area has no confirmed cases. Duh. Of course they don’t. No one can get tested.

    DRJ (15874d) — 3/12/2020 @ 4:41 pm

    The easiest way to avoid stats is to not look. Since much of the Steve Bannon strategy was to destroy public confidence, this really opens up a political opportunity for democrats. I am beyond rooting for either side, but both sides see misery as opportunity and what’s coming will favor the out-of-power side for a while.

    Dustin (9c58b3)

  256. A great leader would lead by example, first and foremost:

    President Trump will not be tested for the coronavirus after coming into contact with a Brazilian official who tested positive for the virus just days after a Mar-a-Lago visit, the White House said on Thursday.

    This:

    But the White House press secretary, Stephanie Grisham, played down Mr. Trump’s level of exposure. “Both the president and vice president had almost no interactions with the individual who tested positive and do not require being tested at this time,” Ms. Grisham said in a statement on Thursday.

    She also indicated that neither Mr. Trump nor Mr. Pence intended to self-quarantine as a precautionary measure. “There is currently no indication to test patients without symptoms, and only people with prolonged close exposure to confirmed positive cases should self-quarantine,” Ms. Grisham said. “Exposures from the case are being assessed, which will dictate next steps.”

    In contrast to Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence, Senator Rick Scott of Florida and Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina announced on Thursday that they were self-quarantining after potential contact with Mr. Wajngarten.

    Trump not leading by example. Others are taking the lead. You can see photos of Trump with the Brazlians at the link.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  257. One administration official said on Thursday that Mr. Kushner, his wife, Ivanka Trump, and Hope Hicks…

    “All the best people.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  258. The orange baboon did not only scare the stock market (down 2,352 points in one day). He also scared the super-market. The first time ever I have seen an “empty shelf” run at my local Jewel. Bagged breads, popular pastas, canned goods, popular soaps and toothpastes, rubbing alcohol, and bananas!

    On the bright side, chocolate creme Oreos and Hershey’s milk chocolate Nuggets are on sale.

    nk (1d9030)

  259. @253. That’s why a NHS system tends to be more efficient fielding these circumstances as they have an infrastructure in place and less bureaucracy to fight when it comes to access to testing- like CDC guidelines and doctor notes, etc., – to deal with. Recall back in the day the Brits had mobile NHS vans at the ready for easy access by citizens to’distribute’ healthcare for routine care/screenings–sort of mobile clinics– that would be stationed around parks or in less affluent sections of London. China managed to quash this mess after it spiked and ‘went viral’ — the speed w/which they set up ’emergency hospitals’ is impressive and reported cases are beginning to taper off but their methods were literally ‘dragonian’ given their government structure; everything from door to door examinations to scrubbing down an entire city. American society wouldn’t tolerate that. The ‘Chinese method’ would have the entire state of Washington in quarantine and New Rochelle hosed down door to door. The problem in the U.S. is clearly the distribution and access to the tests. And there has been some quality control issues as well w/incomplete or bad batches of kits getting out. Remmber the ’76 Swine Flu fiasco w/Ford?? Similar issues–bad batches of vaccine getting out that made people sick. In ta rich country like the U.S., it’s the structure of the current system that’s poor.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  260. 257.One administration official said on Thursday that Mr. Kushner, his wife, Ivanka Trump, and Hope Hicks…

    Two out of those three wouldn’t get kicked out of bed by Akron bar patrons off their third shift at Firestone, Dave. Know the target audience.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  261. Alls I know is we didn’t have no supergerms canceling March Madness and baseball season when the black guy was in charge.

    Dave (1bb933)

  262. @263. A wheelchaired FDR didn’t let the Nawzees and Nips stop baseball, either.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  263. Alls I know is we didn’t have no supergerms canceling March Madness and baseball season when the black guy was in charge.

    Heh. My recollection is that making his March Madness selections was one of the few things in which he seemed truly invested. He seemed to have put more thought into how Coppin State might pull off a second-round upset over Arizona than he ever put into regulating health insurance plans or encouraging Cuba to allow more freedom for its citizens.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  264. For the love of God!

    BEIJING, March 12 (Reuters) – A spokesman for China’s Foreign Ministry suggested on Thursday the U.S. military might have brought the coronavirus to the Chinese city of Wuhan, which has been hardest hit by the outbreak, doubling down on a war of words with Washington.

    https://news.trust.org/item/20200312152307-rlv7m

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  265. President Trump will not be tested for the coronavirus after coming into contact with a Brazilian official who tested positive for the virus just days after a Mar-a-Lago visit, the White House said on Thursday.

    Fine by me. Pride cometh before the fall, and if things are proportional….

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  266. @264. What do you expect- the U.S. president keeps blaming them.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  267. What if:
    No mountains of dead by October?
    Does the media care, no. They keep the jobs they have and they have another chance to bring down Trump. While the real Americans lose the jobs they have and continue to suffer under obamacare.

    mg (8cbc69)

  268. If your employed by our sickening government you can sit home on the couch, watch your soaps and blog about orangeman bad. While getting paid.
    Voters are stupid.

    mg (8cbc69)

  269. For the love of God!

    BEIJING, March 12 (Reuters) – A spokesman for China’s Foreign Ministry suggested on Thursday the U.S. military might have brought the coronavirus to the Chinese city of Wuhan, which has been hardest hit by the outbreak, doubling down on a war of words with Washington.

    https://news.trust.org/item/20200312152307-rlv7m

    It’s good that the Chinese are speaking up about the origins of coronavirus, Kevin.

    Coronavirus appears to be, as I’ve strongly suspected and have alluded to here previously, not of Chinese origin.

    I realize that you, like every other member of every other country ever, were told from birth that you belong to the good guys and were told all sorts of stories in that regard.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  270. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/12/2020 @ 11:16 pm

    “Hit back twice as hard!”

    Also, speaking of “the love of God”:

    U.S. and Israeli religious figures blame LGBT+ people for coronavirus

    Dave (1bb933)

  271. This would provide impetus for caution among the public in accepting the “official standard narrative” that the Western media are always so eager to provide – as they did with SARS, MERS, and ZIKA, all of which ‘official narratives’ were later proven to have been entirely wrong.

    In this case, the Western media flooded their pages for months about the COVID-19 virus originating in the Wuhan seafood market, caused by people eating bats and wild animals. All of this has been proven wrong.

    Not only did the virus not originate at the seafood market, it did not originate in Wuhan at all, and it has now been proven that it did not originate in China but was brought to China from another country. Part of the proof of this assertion is that the genome varieties of the virus in Iran and Italy have been sequenced and declared to have no part of the variety that infected China and must, by definition, have originated elsewhere.

    It would seem the only possibility for origination is the US because only that country has the “tree trunk” of all the varieties. And it may therefore be true that the original source of the COVID-19 virus was the US military bio-warfare lab at Fort Detrick. This would not be a surprise, given that the CDC completely shut down Fort Detrick, but also because, as I related in an earlier article, between 2005 and 2012 the US had experienced 1,059 events where pathogens had been either stolen or escaped from American bio-labs during the prior ten years – an average of one every three days.

    —Larry Romanoff

    Make America Ordered Again (cbcfda)

  272. Welp, we can rely on the T-rumpian cult to bring the nutter conspiracy theories. Duh Donald was always a big buff of the nutty and outrageous!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  273. Trump, Mike Pence, Dr. Anthony Fauci, Dr, D B (I don;t remember her name) and one or two others holding a live nationally broadcast press conference,

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)


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