Italy Extends Quarantine To Entire Country
[guest post by Dana]
Italy extends its quarantine:
Italy is extending its strict coronavirus quarantine measures, which include a ban on public gatherings, to the entire country.
Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte said that people would only be permitted to travel for work or family emergencies.
He said the measures, which come into effect on Tuesday, were to defend the most fragile members of society.
Italy’s coronavirus death toll jumped on Monday by 97 to 463. It is the worst-hit country after China
In a televised address on Monday, Mr Conte said that the best thing for the citizens of Italy was to stay at home.
He added that all sporting events – including football matches – were being suspended nationwide.
The restrictions are similar to those earlier applied to the worst affected Lombardy region, and 14 other provinces.
Rioting ensued after prison inmates were informed that visitors were banned from facilities in quarantined northern Italy:
Inmates rioted and overran a number of prisons in Italy on Monday, escaping their facilities and kidnapping officers, as the ripple effects of a drastic coronavirus lockdown in the country’s north started to take hold.
Riots took place in 22 prisons after visitors were banned in an effort to curb the spread of coronavirus, the Justice Ministry said in a statement. Multiple inmates have died in the riots, and some continue to occupy their facilities, even reaching the roof in some cases.
The chaotic scenes come after Italy’s interior ministry announced severe penalties for any Italians who attempt to flee the lockdown in the north.
Anyone leaving the “containment regions” risks three months in prison, or a fine of up to 206 euros ($234), Luciana Lamorgese said.
–Dana
In addition to Italy, Israel is also taking some extraordinary steps of precaution:
Dana (4fb37f) — 3/9/2020 @ 2:31 pm1. Israel considered limiting the quarantine to people coming from on;y some f the states in the United States, but then New York became the state with the most coronovirus cases.
It seems like this is a self quarantine (it had better because putting a lot of people in one place some of whom have the disease is a surefire way to spread it)
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 3/9/2020 @ 2:40 pmThey’re going to shut down the world – and re-open China. To exports.
By mid-May China will claim to be the only country in the world without Covid-19
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 3/9/2020 @ 2:40 pmhttps://www.bklynlibrary.org/coronavirus
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/health/health-topics/coronavirus.page
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 3/9/2020 @ 2:44 pmhttps://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/health/health-topics/coronavirus.page#cases
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 3/9/2020 @ 2:44 pmImagine if Trump did this. And why?
So far, 3800 people have died from Covid-19 worldwide, assuming that testing has been done in all or most cases. (not clear). Most of these in a country with 1.3 billion people and way down the list of causes of death there.
The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that the flu kills 290,000 to 650,000 people per year — and a vaccine prevents that number from being even higher. We don’t, and would not consider, mass quarantines for the normal run of influenza even though it is deadly to the same “most fragile members of society.”
It may be that this IS some kind of mass killer, but we really don’t have a lot of evidence that it is. What we have is fear and panic and “Do Something!1!!” We’ll know a lot more in a month. Hopefully we’ll all be laughing about it then like we did Y2K.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/9/2020 @ 2:50 pmSammy, why would I want to see what the effing Brooklyn Library thinks about something (anything) other than the Dewey Decimal System?
Try this instead: https://www.cdc.gov
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/9/2020 @ 2:52 pmQuote from the news report in the post: “In a televised address on Monday, Mr. Conte said that the best thing for the citizens of Italy was to stay at home.”
No, that’s not quite all he said. He said that every Italian citizen will be forced by the government to stay at home.
Kevin M notes, “Imagine if Trump did this.” Right now, many of his critics (not this one) are demanding that he do “more,” even though they leave undefined what exactly he is not doing that he should be doing.
Today, I see a headline on my MSN homepage: “Coronavirus keeps spreading as governments clamp down.”
And should governments “clamp down”? In what way? To what degree? And on what authority? This is not a foreign invasion, and terrorist attack, or any other immediate localized threat that might require suspending the norms of civil society in a strictly limited and fully defined way. We are talking about a virus that causes symptoms “similar to” a respiratory flu. Should the state — any state — have the carte blanche authority to suspend normal social activities and forcibly restrict freedom of movement and association (of its own citizens) every time there is a flu epidemic?
In past years, when you had a little fever or a cough, but had to go to work, drive your kids to school, or any number of other activities, were you behaving criminally? Should the state have assumed the power to force you to stay home, lest you infect anyone else with your flu bug?
If not, then please — I’m not being a crank, but honestly asking the question — please tell me why this particular virus outbreak crosses the threshold into legitimizing government powers over private citizens that we would not have accepted in relation to a normal flu season, recalling, of course, that thousands of people die of “avoidable” flu infections every year.
There is a price for living in a semi-free society — or any society for that matter. Part of that price is the likelihood that you will catch illnesses from others in your normal course of life, and further that you will likely infect untold others with illnesses you are carrying without even realizing it. It’s unfortunate. And it is preventable, IF governments are given the authority to “clamp down” every time they want to keep us apart from one another for an indefinite period of time.
What’s sad is how many people, including many who regard themselves as lovers of freedom and advocates of limited government, are perfectly sanguine with demanding unspecified extreme measures from their government at the first hint of concern about a new media bogeyman.
There are things governments can do in this sort of situation, largely in the arena of disseminating information and providing facilities for emergency situations. There are things governments can’t do, such as stop viruses from existing or spreading — unless, of course, we are prepared to grant them unlimited power to control the movement and interaction of entire societies.
Are we sure we are prepared to go there — for a new virus that has caused far fewer deaths than a typical flu outbreak, almost all of them among the usual demographic groups endangered by such illnesses (the old and infirm)?
I’m not saying the virus isn’t real — I live in the middle of the damn thing. I am asking how much you value your liberty, such as it is. If you are sick, maybe you should stay home. That’s not the issue. But that the government should have power to force you to stay home, effectively criminalizing you for not doing so — that’s the issue.
Daren Jonescu (2f5857) — 3/9/2020 @ 3:46 pmWell, that’s an extreme way to keep George Clooney home and confined to his villa.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/9/2020 @ 3:54 pmHere is Italian Prime Minister Comte’s announcement:
Dana (4fb37f) — 3/9/2020 @ 4:01 pmTell me again which country invented fascism. Are they at least making the trains and planes run on time?
nk (1d9030) — 3/9/2020 @ 4:04 pmAre they at least making the trains and planes run on time?
It’s easier when they’re empty.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/9/2020 @ 4:06 pmI think a lot of his critics here are pretty clear on what we think he should be doing:
1) Stop lying
2) Stop spouting toxic nonsense
3) Think of someone other than yourself
To make things simpler (since his doing any one of those things, nevermind all three, is unimaginable), he could also just resign.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/9/2020 @ 4:08 pmShortest lists:
nk (1d9030) — 3/9/2020 @ 4:11 pm— Eskimo surfers
— All the different ways to spell B-o-b
— Popular lawyers
— Italian war heroes
Headline: Trump summons bank CEOs to WH Wed…
If I was a bank CEO I might go…IF I was asked really nicely. And I’d leave if he got hostile.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/9/2020 @ 4:33 pmDaren Jonescu,
Briefly, I appreciate your libertarian concerns about the state using its power to enact a mass quarantine. I do, however, believe that if a virus/disease outbreak qualified as a national emergency, that it would not be unreasonasble for the state to have the power to enforce a quarantine. However, as it now stands, I’m not convinced that this outbreak of coronavirus qualifies as a national emergency. And a quarantine should be a last resort, after all other efforts have proven to be of no use.
It isn’t out of the ordinary for quarantines to happen at the behest of the state. Some TB patients are quarantined, and there’s a list of diseases where quarantine can be enacted by the state: Cholera, Diphtheria, Plague, Smallpox, Yellow fever, Viral hemorrhagic fevers (like *Ebola), Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS), Flu that can cause a pandemic.
Also, I recall that during the Ebola epidemic, US troops returning from Liberia and Sierra Leone were quarantined in Italy before being allowed to return stateside. With good reason.
Given all of that, I think there is a time and place for a national quarantine, but I don’t think this is that time. Not now, anyway. For that decision to be made, the threshhold would need to be much higher. We just don’t know enough yet to make any real determination about how long it will last, whether it will die out sooner rather than later, whether people will develop immunities to it, etc. Too many unknowns to make such a decision.
My concern is, particularly with this administration, is what happens if there isn’t clear and accurate information being disseminated by our government? What if there is confusion and contradictory information coming out from leaders more concerned with an upcoming election and how a coronavirus outbreak will impact their chances of winning?
Dana (4fb37f) — 3/9/2020 @ 4:41 pmThe Romans kicked a fair amount of butt for about 900 years.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/9/2020 @ 4:48 pmThe ranks of heroic Italian kids from WWII are pretty well populated.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/9/2020 @ 4:52 pm“Right now, many of his critics (not this one) are demanding that he do “more,” even though they leave undefined what exactly he is not doing that he should be doing.”
I’d like to see him do less. It’s clear that he’s completely unqualified to address the issue, so he should delegate it to people who are.
He did initially delegate it to Pence, who I also think is unqualified but more likely to listen to people who are. However, his narcissism wouldn’t allow that to last.
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 3/9/2020 @ 4:55 pmMussolini thought Italians were Romans too, then a handful of raggedy-ass Greeks wiped out his whole army while another handful of drunken British sodomites wiped out his navy.
nk (1d9030) — 3/9/2020 @ 4:56 pmThis seems like a major overreaction for Italy, but Iran could be a different story, which could very well have 2 million cases.
Paul Montagu (d6528e) — 3/9/2020 @ 5:11 pmWell, they also were only .500 against Ethiopia (one bad loss in the 1890s fighting for colonial scraps and a mismatch win against Haile Selassie in 1935). and they went mas puto against Austro-Hungarians at Caporetto in 1917
urbanleftbehind (2dacd7) — 3/9/2020 @ 5:50 pmThe brave Italians got the TO:NY stamp and fought for Uncle Sam.
urbanleftbehind (2dacd7) — 3/9/2020 @ 5:52 pmI like that picture, but can’t search for it now, of an Italian POW carrying a British soldier’s rifle for him in Africa, as the Italians were being marched to the POW camp.
nk (1d9030) — 3/9/2020 @ 5:54 pmWhatza-for-dinna-Momma?
Chef Boyardee Spaghetti-Woes.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/9/2020 @ 6:01 pmGot any gabagool?
nk (1d9030) — 3/9/2020 @ 6:07 pm@16:
Dana, I grant that such federal authority exists now. I might quibble over whether it should exist, given the Framers’ intentions in limiting the constitutional authority of the federal government. But I’ll grant that one too.
My question is whether there is anything about this outbreak to suggest a plausible comparison with the diseases on that HHS list you cited. The one exception, last on the list, is “Flu that can cause a pandemic,” which seems very broad, and will almost necessarily have to be judged so after the flu pandemic has broken out, i.e., too late to make such measures useful.
The Trump administration is a ship of fools, no argument there. But if trustworthy information is the issue, I think there are other ways in a free country for information to be disseminated — or there should be, but unfortunately the news media is not an effective way, given the loaded political bias that dictates so much of their way of framing any story. If a free republic is reduced to counting on the federal government to keep the people informed about anything other than foreign military threats, that seems like a recipe for misinformation and politicized “truth,” if ever there was one.
For what it’s worth, however, the Korean government has been pretty straight-up and transparent about all this, and Korea is a tiny geographical area, making federal management much easier. (That’s one reason I think this ought to be handled at the state level in the U.S. The more remote the authority, the less responsive and effective in such cases.) And the Korean example shows that so far, given the current strains of this flu that are apparent, the risk to young, healthy people is extremely low, almost non-existent, consistent with a typical flu epidemic. Almost all the deaths in Korea have been among those well over 60 years old and with pre-existing health conditions. And the national government here, currently run by socialists, is nevertheless taking the official position that there is only so much a government can do, beyond testing and informing people, in a democratic country, before it crosses the line into violating basic rights.
In any case, granting that the U.S. federal government has the authority (under current law) to take extreme and coercive measures during an illness that is declared a “national emergency,” I fail to see how this virus outbreak rises to that level.
I guess one way to frame my concern would be to ask: “Would you rather take a chance at some ‘avoidable’ flu-related deaths for the sake of preserving the principle of limited government, or take a chance at breaking the tether on state power for the sake of potentially preventing some virus deaths?”
There is no lovely choice in that dilemma. But I think there is (for me at least) a preferable choice. It was a very worthy American who said “Give me liberty or give me death.” To put it another way, for those wishing Trump would commit to “doing something,” I would say be careful what you wish for.
Daren Jonescu (2f5857) — 3/9/2020 @ 6:28 pmIf you can order people around to this degree for a virus — mostly out of an abundance of caution — then what could you do for something the politicos find really important, like global warming?
How long does it take before someone wants to invoke some “moral equivalent” in order to get some extra power over the rest of us?
If there was a solid case (and there may be soon) that it was indeed necessary to do this kind of shelter-in-place lockdown to prevent contagion, then sure. Congress can pass such a one-off law in 30 minutes if they need to. But even then, I wouldn’t want the executive to have that kind of power on his say-so. The current occupant is my poster child here.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/9/2020 @ 6:46 pmmr. donald trump, who could have been a good president if he still had his roy cohn instead of jeff sessions, is not the kind of fifth avenue fancy who panics and overreacts in a crisis
no, no, never
he is the kind of fifth avenue fancy boy who lies, bluffs, and busters ignorantly in a crisis
that’s his way of making america great again
nk (1d9030) — 3/9/2020 @ 6:47 pmDana:
One more thing I should add. My original comment was not speaking strictly about quarantines for the sick. I was addressing the Italian government’s general restrictions on the population at large. They are ordering everyone to stay home unless granted government permission to go out. That’s a very different thing from quarantine for the ill. I am warning Americans who dislike Trump against imagining that federal “action” is necessarily a good thing, just because it happens to be action that Trump is not taking.
Daren Jonescu (2f5857) — 3/9/2020 @ 6:47 pmIn Tom Clancy’s book “Executive Orders”, the country has been attacked by terrorists with weaponized Ebola. The president orders all planes grounded and all state borders closed in order to contain the situation. And of course he has opposition from people who think he’s exceeded his authority, which he has. But in that case — the biological equivalent of the ticking bomb — most people support it, so it happens.
THIS case is far murkier.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/9/2020 @ 6:50 pmthats very unfair to our president mr donald who needs our fawning veneration now more than ever
he golfs too
Dave (1bb933) — 3/9/2020 @ 6:58 pmWhat this country needs is a good five-cent N95 mask…
Dave (1bb933) — 3/9/2020 @ 7:32 pmIt’s unclear to me how this Italian measure works in practice.
People in cities need other people to sell them food, and people to transport the food, and people to transport the fuel that allows transportation of the food, people to maintain the electrical power plants, water systems, hospitals, etc.
If everyone in Italy is literally under house arrest, how do they survive?
On the other hand, if everybody goes to work and does their job, to help keep everyone else alive, how is it a quarantine?
Dave (1bb933) — 3/9/2020 @ 8:09 pmIs not quarantine, comrade. Is curfew.
Is law already on books since 1943, translated from German to Italian.
nk (1d9030) — 3/9/2020 @ 8:22 pm@28:
Yes, yes, and oh my goodness yes. That this argument has to be spelled out for Americans, and American conservatives no less, is quite a chilling realization.
Anyone remember “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
Daren Jonescu (2f5857) — 3/9/2020 @ 10:40 pmThis seems kind of strawman-ish to me. Since we’re a democratic republic, it depends on achieving some kind of socio-political consensus.
If some president just, out of the blue, announced a nationwide travel ban without a plausibly reasonable justification, it would be a non-starter. The courts would hit the pause button and the states wouldn’t enforce it.
Also, since global warming proceeds on the timescale of decades, it is hardly a reasonable candidate for precipitate action of the kind that may be necessary in a pandemic. A better, but still imperfect, analogy might be a nuclear accident requiring evacuation of large areas of the country.
To the extent extra-legal, Jack Ryan-like emergency powers are required, they will only survive court challenge if they have a reasonable basis and the government can show they are the least intrusive way of meeting a legitimate aim.
One colorable constitutional basis could be that the spread of the virus represents an invasion. I don’t remember if Tom Clancy used that, but if he didn’t, he should have…
Dave (1bb933) — 3/9/2020 @ 11:47 pmI don’t see any short-term response to an actual emergent crisis being thwarted by the courts. Even if they thought the powers invoked weren’t the “least intrusive”, they would not block them as the immediate harm in doing so could be immense. In cases like that “least intrusive” might be less important than “simple and certain.”
And if they did anyway, the president should ignore them. As we have seen, the only recourse is to impeach.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/10/2020 @ 12:46 am@6 We already have the data to establish that this is worse than the flu. By the time we have numbers that even the “normal flu is worse” crowd would acknowledge we’d be a couple of weeks behind any effective measures. I’m guessing we already are but we just don’t realize it yet.
Hearing people say the normal flu is worse is like listening to the pilot say we’re landing over there and I don’t need to put on the breaks until we need to stop.
The numbers in the US are low because we aren’t testing enough. That’s why Italy’s numbers exploded. France and Spain are about to be in the same boat and Germany is the poster child for BS political propaganda. It’s why Iran’s only real way to count will be by the death toll and they will lie about that. It’s why South America and Africa are the safest places to be according to the official statistics.
frosty (f27e97) — 3/10/2020 @ 4:53 am33. Never gonna happen. There’s a plant that manufactures N95 masks in my hometown and I’ve worked there. You probably wouldn’t believe how labor-intensive it is to manufacture those things.
Gryph (08c844) — 3/10/2020 @ 5:27 amThe office of the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) was scheduled to deliver the Worldwide Threat Assessment to the House Intelligence Committee on Feb. 12 and the hearing has not been rescheduled, according to staffers and members of the House and Senate intelligence committees. The DNI’s office declined requests for a comment on the status of the report. Democratic staffers say they do not expect the report to be released any time soon.
The final draft of the report remains classified but the two officials who have read it say it contains warnings similar to those in the last installment, which was published on January 29, 2019. The 2019 report warns on page 29 that, “The United States will remain vulnerable to the next flu pandemic or large-scale outbreak of a contagious disease that could lead to massive rates of death and disability, severely affect the world economy, strain international resources, and increase calls on the United States for support.”–Time
Now, that’s from Time, so a grain of salt is in order. The upshot being that the T-rump is dragging this report from public knowledge. That is certainly plausible and in character with this regime.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/10/2020 @ 6:18 amA good friend is holed up in Rome overlooking the vatican. As of yesterday the movie he is working on has been postponed. He has no idea when he can return. He did say I would be the first to know if smoke billows out of the chimney!
mg (8cbc69) — 3/10/2020 @ 6:24 amA good friend is in Rome working on a movie, as of yesterday it has been postponed. He has a beautiful view of the vatican and said I would be the first to know when smoke billows from the chimney.
mg (8cbc69) — 3/10/2020 @ 6:28 amIs something wrong with 40 and 41?
mg (8cbc69) — 3/10/2020 @ 6:28 amTesting 1-2-3…
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/10/2020 @ 7:20 amNew York City quarantines fire department (part of it):
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/10/2020 @ 7:26 amA Staten Island Fire Department of New York EMS worker who had five work partners and treated eleven patients over three shifts tested positive. The department has 20 members in quarantine.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/10/2020 @ 7:31 amSorry for the multiple posts! Was trying to get a comment through the moderation filter.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/10/2020 @ 7:49 am27. Daren Jonescu (2f5857) — 3/9/2020 @ 6:28 pm
Well, there’s this thought:
No, Benjamin Franklin didn’t write this about quarantines, but actually about military defense preparations (it’s really about delegating power or allowing its usurpation) and it’s not a sacred text.
https://techcrunch.com/2014/02/14/how-the-world-butchered-benjamin-franklins-quote-on-liberty-vs-security
Per Google’s Ngram, the quote was not really used much till about 1955, although it got a little use during the first decade of the Twentieth Century, and it’s use (in published books) dropped off sharply at the end of the 1970s, but it took off again after about the year 1985 and especially
after the year 2000.
Bejamin Franklin used it a number of times after 1755
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/10/2020 @ 7:51 amTesting.
nk (1d9030) — 3/10/2020 @ 7:51 am41-43. Regular firemen, who have for some time been given responsibility for handling some health emergencies (there not being enough fires to put out or cats stuck in trees) have been told not to respond to some second level complaints and let EMS (which is part of the New York city Fire Department (FDNY) since St. Patrick’s Day of 1996) handle it.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/07/fdny-firefighters-banned-from-responding-to-potential-coronavirus-cases
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/10/2020 @ 8:04 amThe posts in the 2 threads above seem to work but my post shows as “Your comment is awaiting moderation.” Lets see if does here too.
Mattsky (55d339) — 3/10/2020 @ 8:04 amSomething put me into moderation.
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/10/2020 @ 8:12 amRelated to my above comment:
(unless they’re considered “priority 1” calls, i.e., immediately life-threatening)
Most firefighters are trained paramedics and fire departments routinely respond to medical emergency calls since there are less fires these days because of better building practices and on-site fire-suppression tech. However, they’re pulling back from that in NYC (at least) to avoid an entire firehouse having to be quarantined, losing the use of that house, and having response times go way up.
In Seattle, at least 30 firefighters are under quarantine.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/10/2020 @ 8:58 amSo here’s a thing, and take it with a grain of salt…I have a co-worker who has a friend out in Seattle who *thinks* she may have COVID-19. She has had very mild flu-like symptoms but the one thing that she is saying differs from past flu experience is a bit of shortness of breath going up stairs and such. She’s not bothering to get tested because she really doesn’t feel all that bad. She’s had it a week now, though.
PTw (894877) — 3/10/2020 @ 10:43 amI hope she is isolating herself from other people.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/10/2020 @ 11:03 amI have been with severely immune-compromised people most of my life, so I have lived for decades with all the things they are telling us to do — and it works: Wash hands frequently with warm water and soap, avoid crowds and public places, stockpile food and medicine for when you can’t get out, know your healthcare providers, and if appropriate use a 91% rubbing alcohol spray to disinfect incoming items.
But there are other thing I haven’t seem them talking about: In general: Frequently throw out old toothbrushes/toothpastes and buy new ones. Use soft bristled toothbrushes to avoid damage that can lead to infection. Work with a dentist who understands the risks. If you use mouthwash, use disposable cups. Finally: Clean/replace hairbrushes and combs frequently, too.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/10/2020 @ 11:39 amOr perhaps if she has such a mild strain she should spread it around to immunize the herd against a stronger strain?
PTw (a321ca) — 3/10/2020 @ 12:01 pmEvery immune system is different so we can’t know that everyone she comes in contact with will deal with it as easily. You are basically arguing she should be a live vaccine and inoculate her community, but live vaccines have serious risks. Researchers could develop live vaccines right now to this disease but IMO it would be dangerous and medically unethical to do that outside of a clinical trial.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/10/2020 @ 1:01 pmAnd not immunizing the herd has risks as well. If she stays out of hospitals and nursing homes and just infects her cowokers and friends without sick relatives, the broader immunity of the herd in the immediate short term could prevent the more deadly strains from spreading more widely to more people. Of course we will never really know, but Lordy do we like to think we know more than we actually, possibly can. Sometimes you just gotta let nature take its course. Getting a sense of humor helps also.
PTw (894877) — 3/10/2020 @ 1:08 pmDRJ (15874d) — 3/10/2020 @ 1:01 pm
Live vaccinations are going to take place anyway. They say 60 million people in the United States came down with the flu this season, and what does that mean?
It means R0 has gone down, since nothing else has changed, and with most of the people what they got can be described as a vaccination, not an illness.
And that’s the reason flu goes way
in the springafter few months. Only they don’t explain it that way, in fact they don;t real have any explanation and that’s why Trump said it would go away “like a miracle.” Like the flu does,Incidentally, that friend in Seattle, if what she has the famous coronovirus, might not have a weaker strain, but just a smaller dosage of the virus, enabling her immune system to catch up with it quicker.
And indeed everyone’s immune system is different. Everyone churns out a different mixture of antibodies to begin with.
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/10/2020 @ 1:19 pmPlus, you are making assumptions that we don’t know are true:
1. Her mild response means she has a mild strain.
2. She won’t get sicker than she is now.
3. Everyone she comes in contact with will have the same response she does.
4. The mild coronavirus strain is sufficiently similar to more serious strain(s) that it will provide immunity to other strains.
5. She does not have a genetic modifier that enables her to avoid more serious complications.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/10/2020 @ 1:32 pmIf you ask nicely, maybe P will post a Top Ten Coronavirus Jokes post.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/10/2020 @ 1:35 pmAddicts in Chicago are having trouble finding heroin and crack. The dealers have switched to peddling Purell. (I claim copyright.)
nk (1d9030) — 3/10/2020 @ 4:14 pmMy friend in Rome sent me this from a local paper.
The great hypocrisy of the Pope Francis”Progressive Church” has also been revealed. Bergoglio said that the shepherds ought to take on the smell of the sheep, but he and the shepherds have all run away, and now they are far from the sheep and their breath. Only a few parish priests remain in the trenches.
The other Bergoglian slogan was: “the Church as a field hospital.” But as soon as the epidemic broke out, all traces of the field hospital were lost. We don’t see any Charles Borromeo going around ministering to the sick. Everyone is holed up inside their chanceries.
The “doctors” who should have been caring for souls have abandoned the flock, adhering without objection to the government decree that has suspended all Masses with the faithful present throughout all of Italy until April 3 — an unprecedented event.
mg (8cbc69) — 3/10/2020 @ 4:32 pmDRJ (15874d) — 3/10/2020 @ 1:32 pm
They’re not even assuming that anyone who recovered from coronvirus #5 (I’ll call it) is immune.
I don’t know if this is simply the kindof abundance of caution (which cannot be applied consistently across the board) that sssumes we know nothing, or if it;s based on a few people testing negative and then lter testing positive and maybe getting signs of being ill again) but it is contrary to what we assume for every other infection. (there are some infections, like measles, tat damage/tend to erase your immune system memory)
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/11/2020 @ 8:14 amAn update on my coworker’s friend…Her 7 year old son, one of a set of twins, is showing symptoms but not the other son nor her husband. She did decide to go to the ER to get checked but didn’t take her son with her. Again, this is in Kings County, WA. The ER did not feel it necessary to test her because of her symptoms (and also I presume on the length of her illness, 2 weeks now) being consistent and because they are still being conservative on who they give the tests to.
PTw (894877) — 3/11/2020 @ 8:18 amThe Lent to end all Lents, one might surmise, mg.
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 3/11/2020 @ 8:24 amMy best to them, and I hope the US decides to increase testing. It helps us track the disease, marshall our resources, and bring clarity or peace of mind.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/11/2020 @ 8:28 amTesting for coronovirus causes paralysis of society and I think some state authorities want to do as little of it as possible. (the alternative is changing the advise)
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/11/2020 @ 8:32 amThe family in Frisco had a similar story, PTw. Mom and Dad and 3 year old test positive. Two children test negative. The fourth child’s test is inconclusive and s/he will be retested. All the tests were done by Texas labs and must be confirmed by the CDC to be official.
Interestingly, private labs in Texas are also offering the test if ordered by a physician, and Texas has asked insurance companies to waive copays for testing.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/11/2020 @ 8:33 amAccording to VP Pence, majotr insurance companies agreed to waive copays. No tests means more sick people. Well done, Pence, Trump and insurance companies.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/11/2020 @ 8:37 am