Salem Radio Host Fired Mid-Show After Criticizing Trump
All the Trumpists who denied that I and others were fired from RedState for criticizing Trump can go [expletive deleted] themselves. This is a clear pattern:
Craig Silverman, a former chief deputy district attorney in Denver and talk-show host on the conservative 710 KNUS radio station, said he was fired mid-show Saturday after criticizing President Donald Trump.
Silverman was in the middle of a segment about Roy Cohn, Trump’s former personal attorney, when he suddenly was interrupted by network news, he told The Denver Post.
Silverman’s producer threw his hands up in the air, indicating it wasn’t him.
Instead, program director Kelly Michaels came through the door.
“You’re done,” Silverman recounted Michaels as saying.
. . . .
Silverman’s last segment of the hour, before he was taken off the air, was to “observe how toxic Trump is in Colorado,” he said in a text. “And to continue my show theme today that Democrats are making a strong case at the House impeachment hearing.”
KNUS is a Salem station, just like RedState was (and still is) a Salem property.
Here’s Silverman on Twitter after the firing:
Thanks Dylan. I cannot and will not toe strict Trump party line. I call things as I see them. I see corruption and blatant dishonesty by President and his cronies. I also see bullying/smearing of American heroes w/courage to take oath and tell truth. Their bravery inspires me. https://t.co/o9Z4cb7pfe
— Craig Silverman (@craigscolorado) November 16, 2019
Good for Silverman. [Expletive deleted] Salem.
P.S. I do not think for a moment that government should have any say in decisions like this. But I note the irony that Trumpists who whine like stuck pigs about supposed censorship on Twitter and Facebook will applaud this. Almost like they have no actual principles other than supporting the biggest con man in American history.
Almost!
[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]
ELO
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/16/2019 @ 7:12 pmHe’d obviously been told to stop the Trump bashing and wouldn’t. So he got fired. Because people don’t turn into a conservative talk show station to hear Trump bashing. They can hear that 24/7 on almost every media outlet in the USA. In case anyone has missed it, Trump is still getting 92% negative press coverage. His tweet is talking in code:
I see corruption and blatant dishonesty by President and his cronies. I also see bullying/smearing of American heroes w/courage to take oath and tell truth. Their bravery inspires me.
IOW, he supports the D Impeachment of Trump and thinks Lt Col Vindman and Eric Ciarmella are “patriots”. I’m surprised he was hired in the first place.
rcocean (1a839e) — 11/16/2019 @ 7:53 pmIf it makes you feel any better I stopped reading RedState shortly after they booted you and migrated over here.
nate_w (5efffe) — 11/16/2019 @ 7:56 pmRoy Cohn died 31 years ago. And represented Trump in the mid-70s. That was 44 years ago. If this guy was talking about that, no wonder he got canned. Nobody under 50 knows – or cares – about Roy Cohn.
rcocean (1a839e) — 11/16/2019 @ 8:00 pmOh, it’s real, as Patterico can attest very well. The Trump cult will brook no alternative opinions, not even honest questions.
I have been writing about this “conservative” media purge of all actual conservative voices — i.e., non-progressive populist idol-worshippers of McConnell’s and Hillary’s longtime friend, endorser, and major donor — for a few years now, including about the RedState fiasco. I can attest to it too, since I used to write very regularly at American Thinker, until the early winter of 2016, when I started writing about Trump in the primaries, and suddenly started getting editor warnings about my articles being “too long,” “too critical,” and so on. In fact, I was literally told in one editor’s reply that an official decision had been made to lay off Trump and his supporters. They were the gravy train now, so no dissenting opinion would be permitted any longer.
Coinciding with that decision, I note with amusement that I also got a warning, after four and a half years without any such complaints, to make my articles less theoretical, essentially because the new readership wasn’t interested in political philosophy, history, logical arguments — you know, thinking. I stopped writing for American Thinker, and haven’t regretted it for one moment.
Patterico, I hope you feel the same way. Freedom to speak to your mind to your own nice group of readers is worth infinitely more than self-censoring to appease twenty thousand tribal drum-beaters. Let the Salem employees in good standing, the talk radio “giants,” and the Ted Cruzes of the world play sycophant to a court jester. They will have to live with themselves, and reckon with the results of their choices.
Daren Jonescu (2f5857) — 11/16/2019 @ 8:10 pmA media outlet cutting loose talent that doesn’t fit into their format doesn’t bother me.
A media outlet adopting worship of evil as a format is what bothers me.
Dave (f4c7ce) — 11/16/2019 @ 8:27 pmIt’s all about the Benjamins. Somebody, a few years back, put together a taxonomy of the Trumpkin phylum and this is an example of the class gold digger (aurum fodiens).
nk (dbc370) — 11/16/2019 @ 8:36 pmThank Ronald Reagan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine
Then thank quarterly driven free market capitalism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_Media_Group
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/16/2019 @ 8:38 pmWhat the hell are they still doing ith HQ based in CA?
urbanleftbehind (e1ebc1) — 11/16/2019 @ 8:49 pmAs someone who is under 50, yeah, some of us do know about Cohn. Nobody who thought of him as a mentor should ever have been allowed near the halls of power.
Nic (896fdf) — 11/16/2019 @ 8:50 pmI support the D impeachment of Trump and I believe those people are patriots.
And yet you’re still here.
And Salem can’t fire me from my own blog. So I’m still here too.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/16/2019 @ 9:03 pmDaren Jonescu,
Three cheers for you, and thanks for the informative and insightful comment. It’s folks like you who leave me optimistic at a time when objectively there seems to be little reason for optimism.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/16/2019 @ 9:05 pmThis should speak clearly about the decline of political talk radio, that the remaining listeners will brook no dissent from the Trump party line, whatever that party line happens to be. There’s no critical thinking, it’s all about the Emotional party.
Paul Montagu (dc9036) — 11/16/2019 @ 9:11 pmRush, Hewitt, Hannity, Levin and all the other major players have sold their conservative souls to keep their ratings.
DCSCA, the Fairness Doctrine is a red herring because it’s unconstitutional.
Paul Montagu (dc9036) — 11/16/2019 @ 9:12 pm@5. ‘A media outlet adopting worship of evil as a format is what bothers me.’
Fox, Newsmax or Disney? 😉
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/16/2019 @ 9:20 pm”But I note the irony that Trumpists who whine like stuck pigs about supposed censorship on Twitter and Facebook will applaud this.“
I don’t applaud it, but there is not one bit of irony if I did. Salem is liable for the content they allow. Twitter and Facebook are not.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 11/16/2019 @ 9:25 pm@12. ‘sold their conservative souls…’
You’re finally catching on to that? Know what the difference between Rush, Hewitt, Hannity, Levin and The Addams Family and The Munsters is?
Nothing.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/16/2019 @ 9:32 pm@8. It’s not where they’re HQ’d; it’s who owns controlling interest and profits most.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/16/2019 @ 9:35 pmYeah, but they weren’t limited to a 3 year run that got old quick, hell they’ve surpassed the Gunsmoke/Bonanza epoch of the late 50s to mid 70s.
urbanleftbehind (e1ebc1) — 11/16/2019 @ 9:37 pm@18. LOL Still no difference.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/16/2019 @ 9:40 pmYes, Salem took this action because they had a legitimate worry that their host was libeling Trump. That is a totally great argument. You absolutely nailed it Munroe.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/16/2019 @ 10:30 pm@11. Well, Patterico, I didn’t mean it to sound particularly optimistic, just stoic in the face of the unstoppable decline of civilization. But I grant that in this sort of climate, honest conversation between people without tribal, corporate, or politically correct vested interests to protect feels like a trip to Valhalla.
Daren Jonescu (2f5857) — 11/16/2019 @ 11:26 pmSalem’s content/employment action has as much relevance to a libel concern as it does with Twitter/FB deplatforming.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 11/16/2019 @ 11:43 pmAnother episode of Suits vs., Talent. Spoiler: always bet on the Suits.
The Wrap says Silverman is going to do CNN’s Reliable Sources w/Brian Stelter on Sunday. Ironic; a TeeVee visibility spike for an obscure, unknown radio talker because he got fired mid-show could be the best thing to happen to his career in years. Could it have be contrived?? Conspiracy theorists may be all “a-twitter.” Stay-tuned. 😉
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:27 amEver notice that Trump supporters don’t talk about Trump too much? (Question: What are the qualities of Trump’s character that you admire – besides “he fights!”?)
That’s because they basically agree with the most ardant Never Trumper that the guy is basically a degenerate. The Trumpers’ souls consist of decades of resentment, grievance, hurt-feelings etc. against “liberals” and a culture that they feel has contempt for them, and has got the better of them again and again. And that feeling is so total that they double down on supporting their freakish avatar, thereby damaging the country in which they live and their children will live for many years to come.
These are sad, malevolent people.
Brian (0bc4f4) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:27 am24. Of course, they agree that Trump is an incorrigible degenerate. They don’t care. Arguing with Trump humpers is an exercise in futility cause it’s not a debate; it’s just an exercise in whataboutism.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:29 am@24. “These are sad, malevolent people.”
Don’t forget, nearly 63 million ‘sad, malevolent people’ voted for Trump. OTOH, nearly 66 million people voted for HRC— 3 million more than her opponent– yet still lost. Chances are they are more likely the ‘sad, malevolent people.’
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:55 am26. The idea that Trump humpers and Hillary shills could both be sad and malevolent isn’t a mutually exclusive proposition.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 1:04 amThe replacement of Michael Medved with Sebastian Gorka on Salem stations is still massively depressing.
Luke Thompson (e35e3b) — 11/17/2019 @ 1:33 amNever bet on Trump, he will [expletive deleted] you every time. Salem’s not doing so hot. There market cap is plummeting, probably because their latest income statement showed a $20 million loss. The quarter before that showed a $3.6 million loss and all of 2018 showed a $3.2 million loss. Things are so bad they are having to charge for stories on their blog sites. I dumped RedState after the conservative purge but I still liked reading HotAir. Then the other day I find a story paywalled! Salem, I hope you get everything you deserve.
anounymouse (7c41d8) — 11/17/2019 @ 4:31 amHas anyone researched the long term relationships between Trump and Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, David Pecker and others? I would be real interested to see exactly what is behind their rabid support of the President.
I listened to them for years because I thought the mainstream media were often missing a conservative point of view. Now, their conspiracy theories, propaganda and alternative facts are pumped out daily in support of Trump. I find it hard to believe that it is all about ratings.
Rush used to say “words mean things”. “One of my earliest philosophical pronouncements from the earliest days of this program: ‘Words mean things.’ We live in a time when many politicians utter words that are meant to beguile and fool, not communicate properly.”
Well Rush, things sure have changed.
noel (f22371) — 11/17/2019 @ 6:14 amAnd what about their current relationships with the Administration. Shouldn’t their viewers know if the opinions they share with them are really just White House talking points delivered to them daily.
noel (f22371) — 11/17/2019 @ 6:19 amMichael Medved is the best of the conservative hosts. I agree, Luke, it is depressing that a guy like this would take his slot.
Paul Montagu (00daa1) — 11/17/2019 @ 6:22 am#16 —
In the Munsters and the Addams Family, the monsters are likable and act sort of human.
Appalled (4429f6) — 11/17/2019 @ 6:54 amAnd we appreciate that.
rcocean (1a839e) — 11/17/2019 @ 7:06 amSalem Media Group (SALM), at $1.52, is near their 52-week low, and far off of their five year high of $8.15, so perhaps their product isn’t doing so well. Nevertheless, it’s their product to sell, and they can do as they wish; this is not a First Amendment issue, because the company is not the government.
In either 1¼ or 5¼ years, President Trump will be gone, out of office, never again to have authority over the country. But he has inspired something that the left will always fear: an energized conservatism, one which has junked the polite and not-effectual-enough conservatism of past Republican politicians. We will win some elections and lose some elections, but the binary politics of Democrats vs Democrats Lite is done for awhile.
Did the polite and kindly George Bush — either one — do anything about illegal immigration? No. They spoke against it, but really did nothing about it; President Trump’s policies are to find them and kick their asses out, something I believe that our host supports. Presidents Reagan and the two Bushes opposed abortion, but did little about it; President Trump is not only appointing pro-life judges, but is supporting the various state actions to restrict the availability of abortion.
Yes, President Trump spends way, way, way too much; in that, he’s as bad as the Democrats. We are not getting everything we wanted from a Trump presidency, but we are getting more than we could have expected from any of the other 16 GOP candidates from 2016 — including Ted Cruz — and we have avoided the disaster of a Hillary Clinton Administration. And yes, President Trump is personally slimy and an [insert slang term for the rectum here], but his personality affects only those who deal with him, while his policies impact every American. It is that point which his supporters see.
The economist Dana (13dd7c) — 11/17/2019 @ 7:12 amPeople who read Patterico’s blog know what he stands for, and what they are getting. He doesn’t pretend to be one thing, but is actually something else. The problem with guys like Silvermann is he was probably hired to be a Center-Right person and then spent all his time trashing trump.
The listeners probably complained – because they can get that anywhere. They go to Conservative Talk radio to hear a defense of Trump, or if someone attacks Trump, it should be from the Right like M. Savage. The Bulwark and the Dispatch, and IMO national review, only exist because some big Donors are bankrolling them. They have almost no grassroots support. That’s because they selling Anti-Trumpism, and that market is oversupplied. I go to “Memorandum” and I’ll see links to 10 sites attacking Trump, and they’ll always be a “Me too” link to the Bulwark or the dispatch. I doubt many people click on it.
rcocean (1a839e) — 11/17/2019 @ 7:14 amWell, sadly too many Republicans now need safe places where they can gather and rationalize the colossal mistake they made in 2016….turning their party over to a grifter and a man unfit for the office. It’s “We the sheeple” anymore…..sucked in by every conspiracy meme, repackaging every talking point, trashing good people, and excusing the inexcusable. Instead of creating a robust and healthy opposition to Trump on January 20, 2017, too many found they liked being the bully….and not having to be civil or even rational. Jimmy Carter had a rough term and had to endure a formidable primary challenge from Ted Kennedy. If the GOP was healthy, it would have done the same….giving the party a chance to end this reality Presidency. But Fox News and Talk Radio are invested in this meme and personality……it’s hard to back away when all of your credibility is invested. This is the closest that Hannity, Ingraham, Rush will get to running the country…..all resistance must be crushed…..sad….
AJ_Liberty (165d19) — 11/17/2019 @ 7:23 am35. Are we really? I’ve never said it here before, but I’ll say it now: I think we have until 2024 (at the latest) before the powderkeg we’re sitting on blows. We can argue all day long about whether Trump could do anything about it, but I think the salient point is that he hasn’t. When it comes to what’s really important, there’s not a dime’s worth of difference between Trump and anyone who ran against him in 2016 — Repub or Dem.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 7:24 am30. Rush also used to say that it didn’t matter to him who won elections in terms of the success of his show. If that was true, I think it’s going to change radically in 2020.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 7:26 amBush I lied about “No new taxes” and did little to control spending. Bush II did nothing to control spending. In order to pursue the war in Iraq, he gave the D’s almost everything in the Domestic Arena. After he was elected in 2005, with an R Senate and House, he wanted to “spend his political capital” and cut social security and give illegals amnesty. He wasn’t elected on either issue. He also tried to give us Harriet Miers as a SCOTUS judge, even though she was a Complete mystery pick, and was unqualified.
rcocean (1a839e) — 11/17/2019 @ 7:27 am@The economist Dana, politics has and will always be about persuasion and building coalitions…..and in the end….about compromise. Reagan compromised deficits to get major tax reform and military spending. W compromised Medicare spending to continue a war on terror. Compromise is getting harder and harder…..which is a bad development. Obama failed to get compromise on the ACA and Republicans failed to offer much. This idea that either side can steamroll the other flies in the face of all of the checks and balances put into the system. Our Constitutional framework screams for compromise and good faith….Trump is an impediment to what needs to change….
AJ_Liberty (165d19) — 11/17/2019 @ 7:34 amPoor logic. You can be still be “Center-Right” and criticize Trump from a center-right perspective, especially with tis president has adopting the Teamsters approach to trade by instigating tariffs and blowing fiscal conservatism to smithereens.
Paul Montagu (00daa1) — 11/17/2019 @ 7:40 amTalking about “tribes” and “Tribalism” and “why can’t we just talk to each other” is just more baloney from the Never-Trumpers. Its a way of saying “A plague on both your houses” and refusing to engage in reality. The liberal/left doesn’t care what the Never-Trumpers say. They aren’t going to change their behavior one iota. However, they do love the fact that the never-trumpers are hurting Trump and dividing the Center-Right. So, they’re more than happy to give them media spots in the NYT/Wapo or on TV.
As shown by their Presidential candidates, the D’s have a radical agenda they want to implement. Who’s going to stop them? It won’t be the Never Trumpers and their jabber about “Tribes”.
rcocean (1a839e) — 11/17/2019 @ 7:45 amPaul Ryan was ten times more traitorous than Nancy. Ryan is a fricking puke.
Mg (44fbe0) — 11/17/2019 @ 7:46 amTalking about “Fiscal Conservatism” is a red herring. Mitch McConnell and the Congressional R’s are NOT fiscal Conservatives. Neither was Mittens, either Bush, or McCain. And Dole spent the 80’s and 90s’ complaining about those “Right wing nuts” who wanted to cut taxes and spending.
rcocean (1a839e) — 11/17/2019 @ 7:51 amI agree with this because it is logical, but I understood that rcocean was implying that Silverman was not criticizing Trump from a center-right perspective. It would have been helpful, to nitpickers, if rcocean had explicitly said so and provided an example. But I found no need for rcocean to do so for me, because I am generous in my reading of his comments.
felipe (023cc9) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:01 amI wish someone, somewhere, in the media could say something bad about the president without getting fired. Just once.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:21 amY’know, Salem took a measure here that was sure to draw notice. First of all, they signal to the pro-Trump right in a screamingy obvious way how pro-Trump they are. That may bolster ratings for this station. Second, they have to know that this is an action that is likely to go viral. So they bolster Salem’s brand nationally as being the Trumpiest Trumpy radio group in the whole wide world.
Salem probably appreciates the publicity from this blog. It is troubling that there is a population out there that thirsts so badly for this.
Appalled (1a17de) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:21 am#3-
Rip Murdock (22ba8e) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:30 amWhere’s My Roy Cohn?
But your stoicism (I love Stoicism!) gives *me* optimism.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:35 am46. I think rocean assumed that Silverman was not criticizing Trump from a center-right perspective because rocean believes that one can not criticize Trump from a center-right perspective.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:37 amHow do you know this?
felipe (023cc9) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:42 am48. Just because Salem draws notice, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it will rebound to their benefit (although it certainly could). And what is Salem going to do when Trump leaves office and most of their articles are still paywalled? How will they get people to subscribe then?
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:44 am47.
Fixed it for you, M-Munny.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:45 am52. I am being less charitable than you are Felipe, but I think my inference is reasonable, given how he treats people who are critical of Trump. There is absolutely an “ORANGE MAN GOOD!” crowd out there.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:47 amGryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:45 am
Heh, when you are right, you are right.
felipe (023cc9) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:48 am@45 I for one find it amusing in a depressing sort of way to see these NeverTrumpers squawk about the betrayal of conservative values. It’s not a betrayal of values, it’s a revelation of values. Trump didn’t somehow co-opt the Republican Party and corrupt its principles, the GOP’s only principle is that its principles are flexible for the right price.
Jerryskids (702a61) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:53 am57. Consider for a moment, that’s just as true of the electorate as it is the elected. I still consider Trump unfit for office.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:55 amBy the way, Silverman is not shy about his anti-Trump views:
https://twitter.com/craigscolorado?lang=en
Salem removed him in this way to make a statement.
Appalled (1a17de) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:55 amrc, McConnell, Bush and others were also criticized from the right for veering away from traditional conservative policies, so I’ll take your comment as just more whataboutism.
Paul Montagu (d743dc) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:59 amHow can your inference be reasonable without sufficient data? Thus, I less believe your assertion – unless you posess the ability to read minds or have rcoceans’s admission to this belief. Tell you what, let’s ask rcocean and settle the matter:
rcocean, do you believe that one can not criticize Trump from a center-right perspective? We await your response.
felipe (023cc9) — 11/17/2019 @ 9:01 am”Fixed it for you, M-Munny.”
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 8:45 am
I guess my point needed reinforcing. Glad you could help with that.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 11/17/2019 @ 9:20 amELO? You mean, like Electric Light Orchestra? I remember them. They were all the rage in the seventies when I was in high school. Everyone kept talking about their incredible laser light show. They were the band to see.
Then they were exposed as fakes. Turned out the entire show was on tape. They were lip synching and air guitaring.
You had to come of age in the era of rock-and-roll to understand what a betrayal that was. All the great bands recorded their best albums between 1965 and 1980, but it was concerts, not radio play or television appearances, that drove album sales. There was an intimacy between the band and the audience. You had to prove yourself on the road. If you couldn’t play it live, you couldn’t play it.
And these guys were faking it? Audiences don’t go to concerts for lip synch and air guitar, no matter how incredible the light show and special effects are. They go to see a band perform live. It was a bond, an intimate relationship, not to be violated.
When ELO was exposed, concert attendance plummeted, album sales tanked, and the tour was cancelled halfway through. Nobody wants to pay good money for a fake band. If you can’t play it live, you can’t play it. Might as well just put a stereo at center stage and play a tape, with laser beams and special effects, for all the good that will do you. There’s no rapport with the audience.
Psst! That isn’t worth a concert ticket.
It’s the same with “conservative” media. Either these talk show hosts, television personalities, and bloggers never had any principles, or they were all frauds to begin with.
We’ve got a thing / Called gerbil love / We’ve got a thing / Gerbil love
None of them are worth paying attention to. Anymore than ELO, who haven’t been heard from since they were exposed.
Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 11/17/2019 @ 9:56 amI loved ELO. I used to play “Turn To Stone” on the jukebox while playing pinball at Johnny’s Grill in Logan Square. It was my pep song and I’d win a free game lots of times. I never even thought about going to one of their concerts, and didn’t even know about their “scandal” until this year.
nk (dbc370) — 11/17/2019 @ 10:02 am#61 I already agreed one can criticize Trump from the center-right and gave Michael Savage as an example. One could also disagree on certain Trump polices. However, when you’re making statements like Silverman did, and you’re bringing up Roy Cohn, that’s not legitimate Center-right criticism. Its just aiding the Democrats and liberals.
rcocean (1a839e) — 11/17/2019 @ 10:10 amThat is a flat-out lie.
Dubya doubled the number of Border Patrol agents, and is directly responsible for the huge drop in successful illegal crossings after 2005.
You can see the data on Border Patrol staffing in this 2018 document from the Trump Administration. The number of Border Patrol agents went from 9,821 in FY2001 to 20,119 in FY 2009.
You can see the results in the red curve of Figure 3 in this 2018 document put out by the Trump Administration, showing the number of successful illegal crossings between PoE’s fell by about a factor of 10 thanks to Dubya’s efforts to beef up enforcement.
Dave (1bb933) — 11/17/2019 @ 10:39 am@13. IYO; Talk radio:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk_radio
In the U.S., specifically, para headed ‘Politically Oriented Talk Radio’
“‘Nuff said.”
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/17/2019 @ 10:43 amrcocean (1a839e) — 11/17/2019 @ 10:10 am
Thank you for settling the matter, sir.
felipe (023cc9) — 11/17/2019 @ 10:46 amThis is another lie.
The budget deficit was down to 1.1% of GDP in FY2007, before the recession hit, well below historical averages. Prior to FY2009 and the recession, the deficit under Dubya was never higher than 3.4% of GDP, and was below 3% in four out of eight years.
According to this document on the Trump White House web site, the deficit was 3.2% of GDP in FY2016 and will be 5.1% of GDP in FY2019.
Dave (1bb933) — 11/17/2019 @ 10:50 am61. Sufficient data is the scores (hundreds?) of statements he has made in support of my assertion. I don’t have to go back and explain it; you can google it for yourself.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:02 amI think its disingenuous to call Michael Savage center-right. In many cases he’s so far right he’s left. He coined the phrase checkpants country club Republicans and is oftentimes dismissive of the Founders and reverent of F-D-Ahh. And I by far prefer to listen to him versus Rush L. and company for those same histrionics and the Noo Yawk storytelling. That said, Charles Sykes and pre-campaign Joe Walsh are probably more indicative of legit Center Right criticism of President Trump.
urbanleftbehind (39c582) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:09 amYour assertion was that rcocean “believed that one can not criticize Trump from a center-right perspective.”
rcocean has refuted your assertion himself. I need not google anything. Believe what you want about rcocean, but do not count me among those persuaded by your comments.
felipe (023cc9) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:10 amSince, were this a Trumpist blog, I’d be gone long since for certain comments, I can hardly defend this firing. ALL censorship is bad. Government censorship is evil and bad.
Having said this, I think conflating support for the GOP with support for Trump is mistaken. My biggest problem with Trump is not his dishonesty, venality or SfB thinking but the damage he has done, and continues to do, to the GOP agenda including every policy initiative he purports to favor.
When Trump took the nomination, the GOP had both houses of Congress, some 38 statehouses and had the Democrats running a candidate as tired and bereft of ideas as their platform.
Singlehandedly, Trump has FUKKED OVER the GOP, to the cheers of many of his supporters, while accomplishing absolutely NOTHING. If you say “judges” I will point out that Patterico would have done a better job picking judges. Didn’t need Trump. After that, what? A tax “reform” that cost me $10K in it’s first year? GFY.
I hope he’s impeached and convicted. I hope it done in a way that isn’t BS, but I am caring less and less. Then I hope that someone with integrity and brains picks up the cudgel and goes to work.
Kevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:21 amThat isn’t to say that I think the current charges are sustainable.
Kevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:23 am72. I said the assertion was reasonable. I still think it is, though it turned out to be incorrect. Something can be reasonable and incorrect at the same time.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:27 am71. Savage is a great entertainer. I’m not sure he’d make a very good retail politician. I’m not sure he always believes his own baloney when it comes to policy.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:30 amLost in all this…http://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/17/white-house-trump-undergoes-exam-at-walter-reed.html…and no Pence mobilization, hmmm…
urbanleftbehind (4b5db6) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:30 amIn a better world, where the GOP distinguished itself from Trump, you would be right.
But in this world, where 90% of the GOP has crawled up inside Trump’s butt – where it’s nice and safe and warm, and they’ve learned to live with the disgusting smell – there is really no distinction to be made.
Dave (1bb933) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:32 amWe get it, your ox was gored. Whatever the gov gives you can be taken away.
felipe (023cc9) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:33 amGryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:27 am
I agree. I have been reasonable and quite incorrect many times. Someone is tapping my shoulder as I type – I am supposed to add “today.”
felipe (023cc9) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:36 amI hope he’s impeached and convicted. I hope it done in a way that isn’t BS, but I am caring less and less. Then I hope that someone with integrity and brains picks up the cudgel and goes to work.
Kevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:21 am
I sympathize with you, Kevin, especially the caring less, and less aspect. But finding someone with integrity to pick up a cudgel is prolly a deal breaker.
felipe (023cc9) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:40 amSuspicious, to be sure, although this part of the story
makes me doubt he was having any kind of emergency.
Walter Reed is quite some distance outside the city, even if they have the route cleared of traffic (which, if it were really an emergency with no warning, they wouldn’t). If he were in distress surely they would have used the helicopter, which is presumably ready to take off on a moment’s notice at any time of the day or night.
Dave (1bb933) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:45 am81. Politicians ain’t gonna fix what politicians broke.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:45 am@77. Not lost– but peculiar. Seeding sympathy a la Nixon–or something else is a foot. Something is amiss give some general comments on his ‘appearance’ at that presser w/Erdogan. ‘Course it may just have been a routine “T-rumpectomy” to install a fresh Putin bug, remove some Cruz beard follicles– and Lindsey Graham.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:46 amGryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:45 am
You are totally right. Breaking things is job security to them.
felipe (023cc9) — 11/17/2019 @ 11:57 amBut in this world, where 90% of the GOP has crawled up inside Trump’s butt – where it’s nice and safe and warm, and they’ve learned to live with the disgusting smell – there is really no distinction to be made.
I think you mistake party politics for church.
Kevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:00 pmBut finding someone with integrity to pick up a cudgel is prolly a deal breaker.
I grade on a curve. Again, not a church, so not a saint.
Kevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:02 pm87. What do you think Vera Coking and Michael Forbes would say about Trump’s “imperfections?”?
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:03 pm@76. They’re all entertainers, Gryph.
Hell, Limbaugh copped to that label 30 years ago. The two cheapest programs to produce w/t most potential for ROI are game shows and talk shows.
If you’ve invested in a broadcast platform- radio, TV or web, all you need is a microphone and a talent w/an opinion on anything; politics, sports, cooking… Draw an audience, sponsors will pay to reach them and the suits cash in– all that matters is the ROI and squeezing out every dime that can be made. Mess w/t formula– you’re fired. Once you understand that, the rest falls into place.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:06 pm89. Oh, totally. That said, I think Rush Limbaugh would make a better retail politician than Savage or Hannity. He’s just got more in that particular skill set. I haven’t listened to him in years, but he’s undeniably charismatic in ways that Savage and Hannity can’t even hope to touch.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:08 pmKevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:02 pm
felipe (023cc9) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:09 pmI phrased it poorly. Integrity is not the deal breaker, posessing it is. After all, we speak of politicians, not saints.
91. When I complain about how corrupt politicians are and somebody responds by telling me “nobody’s perfect,” I want to pile up all those straw men and burn them in a bonfire.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:11 pmGiven that what they are doing is entirely consistent with what they are saying (“Trump is the party and the party is Trump’s”), why should we not take them at their word?
Dave (1bb933) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:11 pmHeh, at least one will be warm.
felipe (023cc9) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:12 pmRe: HotAir paywalling
It seems like a desperate move doomed to failure.
HA is one of the few right-of-center blogs where there is a diversity of Trump-truth and Trump-worship among the writers.
Allahpundit is great, and Ed is frequently interesting, but I don’t think many people are going to pay to subsidize a site like that.
Dave (1bb933) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:23 pmYour premise is that vigorous criticism of Trump is not center-right because people on the left say the same thing. I reject your premise utterly.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:23 pm@90. Not a chance; interactive give and take is not his strengths; marketing and promotion are. Ailes tried him on television w/a studio audience and the show cratered fast. His is essentially a daily, one-way, three-hour crank on a barstool rant: the noise perfect listening for travelling salesmen along the interstates and truckers long-hauling loads to Walmarts between Indianapolis and Cape Girardeau.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:26 pmI think you’re overlooking his amazing debt reduction, his strengthening of relationships with allies, and his steadfast refusal to give aid and comfort to murderous dictators. Couple that with his steady hand on matters of trade, and his robust support for the rule of law, and you have some pretty impressive accomplishments aside from the stuff you mentioned.
Lolololololol
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:27 pm95.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:29 pmPaywallingSelling out to Trump was the beginning of the end for Salem.When I complain about how corrupt politicians are
When people complain that politics are corrupt, I want to send them to the Land of Unicorns where they will be happy.
Kevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:30 pmWith so many other accomplishments, it’s understandable that you forgot the border wall Mexico paid for.
Dave (1bb933) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:31 pmI think you’re overlooking his amazing debt reduction, his strengthening of relationships with allies, and his steadfast refusal to give aid and comfort to murderous dictators. Couple that with his steady hand on matters of trade, and his robust support for the rule of law, and you have some pretty impressive accomplishments aside from the stuff you mentioned.
The debt thing is mostly campaign lies, plus inaction. And kicking over the table wrt China was necessary (although, here too, he’s not the guy to establish a new order).
But otherwise his foreign policy accomplishments rival Jimmy Carter’s and he has more of them.
Kevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:34 pmYour premise is that vigorous criticism of Trump is not center-right because people on the left say the same thing. I reject your premise utterly.
One should take care that the same criticism isn’t in today’s DNC talking points fax.
Kevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:36 pmWith so many other accomplishments, it’s understandable that you forgot the border wall Mexico paid for.
To be fair, he did try to do that (the wall part) and was blocked by people even less honest than he was.
Kevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:38 pm104. Less than nothing is still nothing, and nothing = nothing.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:40 pm100. Keep playing with that straw man if that’s what makes you happy, Kev.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:40 pmMy main criticism of Trump is that he’s Opportunity Cost incarnate. So many things that could have happened with a President Cruz or Rubio or (god help me) Kasich, won’t. Instead the GOP will go back into opposition having had defeat snatched from the jaws of victory-in-detail.
If he was honest and selfless this would not change.
Kevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:42 pm107. Opportunity cost? Hoo boy…
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:43 pm100. Keep playing with that straw man if that’s what makes you happy, Kev.
“Good government” is an oxymoron. Government is a necessary evil, but you are foolish if you don’t understand it IS evil and is, and always has been, a scoundrel-magnet.
Kevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:44 pmIf you don’t believe that, explain ethics laws.
Kevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:45 pm109. That is what the constitution is supposed to be for, and we’re not even doing the bare minimum of following that. There are scoundrels, and then there are voters who enable them. At this point, I’m more pissed off at the voters than I am at the 545.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:45 pm546
Dave (f4c7ce) — 11/17/2019 @ 12:53 pm546th is only in play when a Senate is 50 v.50, or I understanding that wrong. Gryph would win what used to be referred to in Marvel Comics fan letter pages as a “No-Prize”.
urbanleftbehind (4b5db6) — 11/17/2019 @ 1:04 pmWhere’d those extra 10 come from? It’s only 535. DC has 3 electoral votes but it has no votes in Congress. Neither do the territories and possessions. Their “representatives” are just there to
nk (dbc370) — 11/17/2019 @ 1:12 pmfeed off the public troughobserve. And the Vice President does vote only in case of a tie like urbanleftbehind says.For all of Carter’s foreign policy misadventures, the Camp David accord was an important breakthrough that has stood the test of time, and Trump will accomplish nothing even remotely comparable.
Dave (f4c7ce) — 11/17/2019 @ 1:12 pmI figured he was counting the Supreme Court and the President, but he left out the VP, who makes it 546.
Dave (f4c7ce) — 11/17/2019 @ 1:16 pmI think an anarcho-Libertarian would take the attitude “Kill ‘em all and let God sort ‘em out”…
Dave (f4c7ce) — 11/17/2019 @ 1:25 pm114. The entirety of the Federal Government is 545. 435 in the House, 100 in the Senate, 9 unelected robes on the Supreme Court, and a unified Executive embodied in the President. Anyone else who works for the government would be an appointee or staffer under one of the three branches.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 1:31 pmThe Vice President is not an appointee or staffer.
Dave (1bb933) — 11/17/2019 @ 1:37 pmBut the supremes are.
Dave (1bb933) — 11/17/2019 @ 1:39 pm119. He’s not one of the 545, Dave. I know Math is hard.
House of Reps = 435
Senate = 100
Judiciary (Supreme Court) = 9
Executive (Presidency)= 1
Where you got the “Vice President” in that equation, I dunno.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 1:42 pmThis is where I find Civics education in the United States sorely lacking. While it’s true that the Vice President is neither an appointee or a staffer, he runs as a running mate with the president at the President’s pleasure. It is not without precedent for a Vice President to be let go and replaced (Spiro Agnew, anyone?).
Originally the Vice President was whoever got the second-most votes in the Electoral College. In at least a couple of instances, the President and Vice President barely knew each other — at all, ever, even throughout the administration. It’s only been since the popular election of Senators (itself an atrocious affront to the constitution) that Vice Presidents have really mattered.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 1:46 pmThis is where I find Civics education in the United States sorely lacking. There is nothing in the Constitution about any “running mate”; the President and Vice President are independently chosen by the electors from each state.
If no one receives a majority of the electoral votes for President and/or Vice President, they are independently elected by different branches of Congress.
And once in office, the Vice President is not merely an appendage of the executive branch, but also President of one house of the legislative branch. He is in no way answerable to the President; in fact the reverse is true, to some extent, under the 25th Amendment.
Dave (1bb933) — 11/17/2019 @ 1:59 pmCensure proceedings should have be initiated on this guy the day after Helsinki; his political nads tied to a weather balloon and lofted skyward for some stratospheric justice. But did the R’s and D’s do anything strong and substantive? No. Collecting judges was more important for some; expanding majorities more important for still others; public hand-wringing satisfactory for all – and prattle for pundit consumption. The people running and funding both the major parties just plain suck.
So ‘catch him if you can.’ Six months ago Nancy and Mitch had the goods in hand w/t Mueller Report. Nancy purposely stalled, wanting voters do her dirty work while Mitch just kept tallying up judges.
As the primaries ramped up, Glenn Beck, David Boaz, Brent Bozell, Mona Charen, Ben Domenech, Erick Erickson, Steven Hayward, Mark Helprin, Bill Kristol, Yuval Levin, Dana Loesch, Andrew McCarthy, David McIntosh, Michael Medved, Ed Meese, Russell Moore, Michael Mukasey, Katie Pavlich, John Podhoretz, R.R. Reno, Thomas Sowell and Cal Thomas all quilled essays in that infamous 2/15/16 issue of National Review strongly opposing The Donald’s candidacy and run. The establishment had spoken out in horror: their Frankenstein had gotten loose; emerged from the castle– or at least Trump Tower.
His win has made them losers. Irrelevant; out-of-date, on bottom of the deck: hands folded, like The Weekly Standard. The Trump Triumph has been to effectively marginalize, if not neuter, the modern, ideological conservative movement. But take comfort- they got lots of judges all the same as a consolation prize.
So yes, good luck: ‘catch him if you can’! He’ll wear House impeachment and Senate acquittal as a badge of honor into a victorious second term w/t promise of more SCOTUS judges to come; and beat the raps like he has been doing all his life. And Putin will smile…
Felicity Huffman did more time than Donald Trump ever will – or Richard Nixon ever did.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/17/2019 @ 2:26 pmWould someone explain Cal Thomas’ popularity to me? I thought this boring old stiff had gone into retirement. When he was more active, I’d see him on TV, and think “Is this the best Conservatives can do?”
rcocean (1a839e) — 11/17/2019 @ 2:55 pmNo R President has reduced the debt since IKe or was it Nixon? Anyway, Reagan was known for his budget busting deficits. Remember? He increased Defense spending and cut taxes. The Two Bushes were spend-thrifts. And McCain and Mittens were NEVER deficit hawks.
And Trump represents a welcome change in foreign policy. We want our allies to be y’know be allies. That is, pay for fair share of the NATO defense burden and stop taking advantage of us on Trade. As for the “Murderous Dictators” – neither Putin nor the Turkish President are “dictators”. Both were elected. And the Saudi’s are our long standing allies. Nobody loved the Saudi’s more than Bush I and Bush II.
But yes, isn’t it terrible the way Trump has changed DC’s mind on spending. Before Trump, McConnell and Ryan were holding the line, wracking up one budget surplus after another, and then Trump came along and FORCED THEM to increase spending and cut taxes. Darn that Trump! Well, maybe “Budget surplus Biden” will bring us back to fiscal sanity.
rcocean (1a839e) — 11/17/2019 @ 3:05 pmBTW, I’m just curious and not making an argument. Did any mildly successful R Candidate in 2016, Jeb, Rubio, Cruz, Kasich, etc. run as a “deficit hawk”? Did any of them oppose cutting taxes? Did any of them provide a list of programs they would cut?
I don’t remember that. Maybe it happened. I’m not talking about putting out a few obscure white papers, and making a few noises here and there. I”m talking about devoting serious TV time to the deficit. As far as I can remember, the last person to be truly focused on the Budget Deficiet was Perot.
rcocean (1a839e) — 11/17/2019 @ 3:10 pmThis is true.
Real spending was flat between FY2011 and 2016, which reduced outlays as a fraction of GDP from 24.5% of GDP to 20.9% over that period, as the economy grew.
Non-defense discretionary spending in FY2016 was 1.5% of GDP lower than it was the last time the government ran a surplus.
Dave (1bb933) — 11/17/2019 @ 3:15 pm123. According to the constitution, the Vice President is not an appendage of the presidency. In practice, that’s exactly what it is. Presidents pick their running mates as foils to make their own election more likely. Anyhow, there are a lot of other ways in which we are not following the constitution as well. There’s no sense in preaching to me about what the constitution says when we are barely making any pretense of actually following it.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 3:37 pmBreaking-
Democrats invite Trump to testify in impeachment inquiry
Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi invited President Donald Trump to testify in front of investigators in the House impeachment inquiry ahead of a week that will see several key witnesses appear publicly.
Pushing back against accusations from the president that the process has been stacked against him, Pelosi said Trump is welcome to appear or answer questions in writing, if he chooses.
“If he has information that is exculpatory, that means ex, taking away, culpable, blame, then we look forward to seeing it,” she said in an interview that aired Sunday on CBS’s “Face the Nation.” Trump “could come right before the committee and talk, speak all the truth that he wants if he wants,” she said.
Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer echoed that suggestion.
“If Donald Trump doesn’t agree with what he’s hearing, doesn’t like what he’s hearing, he shouldn’t tweet. He should come to the committee and testify under oath. And he should allow all those around him to come to the committee and testify under oath,” Schumer told reporters. He said the White House’s insistence on blocking witnesses from cooperating begs the question: “What is he hiding?” ……
Rip Murdock (5a2a4a) — 11/17/2019 @ 3:54 pmPelosi would have better luck inviting Trump to carry her across a river.
felipe (023cc9) — 11/17/2019 @ 4:42 pmOcean, I don’t even recall the same “3 departments question” in 2015/2016 that Rick Perry flubbed in late 2011.
urbanleftbehind (4b5db6) — 11/17/2019 @ 5:07 pmFor all of Carter’s foreign policy misadventures, the Camp David accord was an important breakthrough that has stood the test of time
Yes, but completely zeroed out by his trip to Iran where he cut the balls off the Shah. Everything bad started there. And I think we should all rethink SAVAK given who they were fighting.
Kevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 5:46 pm109. That is what the constitution is supposed to be for
If that were so, there would be no need for ethics laws.
Kevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 5:47 pm#123
Well done, Dave.
Kevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 5:49 pmBefore Trump, McConnell and Ryan were holding the line
To be fair, they didn’t hold the line too well on judges. One that I can think of.
Kevin M (19357e) — 11/17/2019 @ 5:50 pm134. The constitution is so that we don’t need ethics laws? Huh? SMDH…
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 5:55 pmThe President chooses the Vice President he wants, whether as a running mate or when there’s a vacancy in the Vice Presidency. In the first instance his choice is ratified by the general election, in the second by both Houses of Congress. It is only in a 12th Amendment instance where no VP candidate receives a majority in the general election that the Senate picks one from the two highest pluralities.
nk (dbc370) — 11/17/2019 @ 6:20 pm. You throw in your lot with a party for whom criminality and mendacity are daily practice, you get classified on the reliability level of criminals and mendicants. I.E., people who believe in nothing but whatever is necessary to avoid judgment on themselves.
Good description of the GOP now.
FYI, the politics and philosophy that drove the Founding Fathers was mostly derived from Stoicism.
Kishnevi (f594bb) — 11/17/2019 @ 6:38 pm140. Apropos to nothing, one of my favorite binges on Netflix right now is Bojack Horseman. There’s a lot of stoic philosophy to be found in that show.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/17/2019 @ 6:51 pmShould one? Really?
What if today’s DNC talking points fax is telling the truth?
Seriously. There seem to be some here who think I should not tell the truth if it lines up with what Democrats are saying.
Bullshit. I tell the truth regardless. These days, when it comes to Trump’s behavior, Democrats are telling a lot more truth than Republicans. Either way, I don’t care. I go with the truth no matter who it hurts.
As always, if you don’t like it, there are plenty of other blogs and sites with a different ethic.
Pah-lenty.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/17/2019 @ 6:53 pmCauldron Familiar is Steppe Nomad and one hundred other aliases. Deleted, again. Ignore.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/17/2019 @ 6:54 pmTo be fair, “try” is super duper charitable.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/17/2019 @ 6:55 pmThere seem to be some here who think I should not tell the truth if it lines up with what Democrats are saying.
For some, the fact that the Democrats are saying “it” is an incontrovertible proof that “it” is false, no matter what “it” is.
Kishnevi (f594bb) — 11/17/2019 @ 7:08 pmThose are more or less the same people who “preemptively disbelieve anything in the New York Times” but don’t have difficulty believing Donald Trump; and who dismiss anything said on any topic by someone who has been critical of Trump.
They’re the ones who say that Trump-critics have swallowed “media narratives” or have become too “deranged” to see the truth — while they themselves close their eyes and plug their ears to whatever exposes their heroic mythology as deeply misguided.
Radegunda (39c35f) — 11/17/2019 @ 7:26 pm@ kishnevi, #144:
Indeed. Whereas the proper attitude should be, to coin a phrase, “distrust but verify.”
Demosthenes (7fae81) — 11/17/2019 @ 10:06 pmPissed my pants at 71 laughing so hard how Abe honest – democrats are…
mg (ebf6c2) — 11/17/2019 @ 10:36 pmFrom what I’ve read, incontinence is a common problem at that age, and there are very effective and discreet solutions available.
Dave (1bb933) — 11/18/2019 @ 1:28 amEwwww, but at least you didnt link directly to a “cougar in tight jeans” ad, Dave.
mg also got a touch of the Yoda-speak there.
urbanleftbehind (9bd0c1) — 11/18/2019 @ 2:34 am@ 64 Well, nk, I’m not saying that ELO didn’t have talent. They had a couple of hit songs and got a lot of radio airplay. But if they weren’t going to play live, they should have stayed in the studio. Lip synching and air guitar to tape was unacceptable, no matter how incredible the light show was. Audiences demanded authenticity.
I’ve been to a lot of concerts. Elvis, KISS, Rush, U2, The Talking Heads, The Grateful Dead, The Rolling Stones, ZZ Top, to name a few–all of them performed brilliantly. But the single best set I ever saw was by Black Sabbath.
It was in 1978, on the Never Say Die tour, at the Hemisphere Arena in San Antonio. The Hemisphere was a relatively small arena, 15,000 seats, but it had really good acoustics. San Antonio then was the heavy metal capital of the world, and Black Sabbath were the gods of metal; they practically invented it. So every heavy metal freak from four states–Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, New Mexico–was at this concert. We all thought this would be our last chance to see Black Sabbath. There had to be at least 45,000 crammed into that arena–it was standing room only, and all the standing room was full, every seat, ever aisle, all around the arena. It was the largest audience at any concert at the Hemisphere, three times more than Elvis.
Van Halen opened. Now, here’s the thing. For months we’d been hearing on the radio and reading in the rock magazines that Van Halen was showing up Black Sabbath, out performing them. It was the New Youth vs. Dinosaurs meme. Yeah, well, not on this night.
Van Halen came out and totally sucked. David Lee Roth must have been on Quaaludes or something, because he kept singing the wrong lyrics, and the band would have to stop and start over. Then he went dancing across the stage, tripped over the microphone stand, and slammed his head into an amplifier. We actually booed them off the stage, wouldn’t allow them to finish their set. They were that bad.
Then Black Sabbath came out, but about 20 minutes into their set, Tony Iommi’s amp blew out. (Probably because of the damage caused by Roth’s head collision.) Ozzy came out and said Bill Ward was going to entertain us with a drum solo, which he did. Then about fifteen minutes into it, Geezer Butler came out and they jammed together–it was classic jazz drum-bass combo; there are no recordings of it, but it was incredible.
You had to be there. Nobody left. Then Ozzy came out and said, “Disco Sucks!” Black Sabbath retook the stage. They played for over two hours, all of their greatest hits. I have never seen another band perform like that. They had something to prove, and they proved it. They were the gods of metal, in front of the largest audience in the heavy metal capital of the world. And they delivered, they performed. What an incredible performance that was.
Black Sabbath had something to prove, and they proved it. On that night, they were the gods of metal, in front of the most discriminatory crowd in the world.
How this applies to Trump is exemplary. Can he motivate crowds at his rallies? Yeah, sure, just like Van Halen. Will he show up to play after bad events? Black Sabbath did not allow a technical malfunction to interfere with their malfunction, and when it was all said and done, they delivered.
Black Sabbath is the only honest band I know. They’re all Catholics, by the way. Trump is a total fraud.
Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 11/18/2019 @ 3:06 amhttps://www.denverpost.com/2019/11/17/craig-silverman-denver-radio-fired-trump/
BuDuh (d99866) — 11/18/2019 @ 4:39 amIf so, it seems rather … odd … that they’d kick him off the air in the middle of a show, doesn’t it?
Dave (1bb933) — 11/18/2019 @ 5:16 amIt does seem like an odd way to handle business, Dave. As more information comes out, who knows what we learn about what actually took place.
BuDuh (d99866) — 11/18/2019 @ 5:52 amActually, now that I think about it, it is no more odd than the claim that he got the boot for dissing Trump. According to the executive, Silverman was mentioning his other radio appearance when they decided to clip him. Both versions of events share the notion that Silverman was cut off after saying something the station didn’t want said.
The argument now is what did he say. Time will tell, but at least the station gets to weigh in.
BuDuh (d99866) — 11/18/2019 @ 5:59 amI can’t speak for anyone else. But when I say someone is engaging in tribalism. What I mean is that the person appears to be behaving in a way that prioritizes loyalty to their social group over other things.
I use it in a derogatory way when the speaker pretends they’re advocating some other value set or when loyalty to their social group seems to be clearly lesser value. Such as “I don’t care if OJ committed murder, As a black man I’m not sending another black man to prison.”
Like many things it can be a matter of degree. So if we modify the example above to “I don’t care if beat that guy up. He’s working double shifts 6 days a week in a factory. I’m a working class guy like him and I’m not ruining his life for 1 mistake.” that would be more understandable, if not something I’d support.
Time123 (797615) — 11/18/2019 @ 6:28 amWell said, Time123.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/18/2019 @ 6:55 amNobody talked about “tribes” or “Tribalism” until rcocean (whom Time123 quoted above) chucked it in from left field, and I have no idea why he did. I will grant that is not something the corrupt criminal traitor Trump can be accused of. He has absolutely no loyalty — zero, zip, zilch, nada — to any “tribe”, to any group, to any one individual, to any number of individuals. He has only self-interest, caprice, whims, and appetites.
nk (dbc370) — 11/18/2019 @ 7:11 amhttps://denver.cbslocal.com/video/program/1339/4215110-knus-radio-speaks-out-after-craig-silverman-claims-he-was-pulled-off-the-air-over-impeachment-comments/
BuDuh (d99866) — 11/18/2019 @ 7:23 amELO was doing the thing they did on Modern Family where they answer the phone with different things sounding like hello.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/18/2019 @ 7:29 amI read RC’s comment over the weekend but wasn’t able to reply. Really wanted to get it out because I think this point is part of why we’re talking past each other.
Time123 (235fc4) — 11/18/2019 @ 7:29 am#155 – that’s your definition and doesn’t equal to what Kevin Williamson and the Bulwark Boys mean by “Tribalism”. Their definition relates to Politics. not “Social Groups”.
rcocean (1a839e) — 11/18/2019 @ 7:32 amPolitical groups are social groups, aren’t they?
DRJ (15874d) — 11/18/2019 @ 7:35 am@161
Time123 (700eb7) — 11/18/2019 @ 8:33 amIt’s a pretty standard definition of tribalism. In this context ethnic, economic, and social groupings all impact political tribalism. “Social group” is a general way to state it. I used it here because it’s inoffensive and vague.
Brudar, good links. Ty
Time123 (700eb7) — 11/18/2019 @ 8:34 am161. “Tribalism” is like “populism,” inasmuch as both words have a dictionary definition far afield of the definition the media seems to use.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/18/2019 @ 8:40 amWell, I don’t know what “tribe” #NeverTrump is. Is there a registry or a genealogy I could look up? A secret handshake? In my case, I just can’t stand the double-crossing, backstabbing sonofab!tch. He makes my skin crawl. Is that a tribe or a phobia?
nk (dbc370) — 11/18/2019 @ 9:10 amI think RCocean is correct about the way Kevin Williamson defines tribalism (155/161).
https://medium.com/conservative-pathways/the-greatest-fury-5c56410be63b
Williamson, to me, seems like a latter day HL Mencken. His writing is superb. His political philosophy is “everybody’s stupid except me, and maybe you, if you agree with me, but probably not.”
Equating Williamson with the average every-day never-Trumper seems wrong to me. The never-trumper that ought to worry Trump’s folk is the suburban woman, formerly known as soccer-Mom, who are repelled by Trump and the rhetoric out of his supporters.
Appalled (1a17de) — 11/18/2019 @ 9:31 amThe never-trumper that ought to worry Trump’s folk is the suburban woman, formerly known as soccer-Mom, who are repelled by Trump and the rhetoric out of his supporters.
Yeah, not all soccer-moms think alike. The ones I know, for the most part, are pro-Trump. They may not like his personal behavior in many regards but are not threatened by it. Unlike how they felt about Billy Boy. They feel more threatened by the leftists, the illegal immigration, the (previously) poor economy, and the continuing and increasingly unhinged nature of our local schools and universities.
PTw (894877) — 11/18/2019 @ 9:48 am@151/@152. Odd? Not really. Suits rule. There’s likely some ‘inside baseball’ in play here; a hint of a whiff of ‘self-promotion’ with this stinker. ‘Independent contractor’… disputed ‘consulting services’ cloaked as rationale to self-promote on a competitor’s platform. Might be enlightening to learn when his contract was up for renewal or if they’re in renegotiation talks. MSNBC’s Scarborough was pulling similar teases w/Fox when he was in contract negotiations. Regardless, he got media buzz– as did Salem.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/18/2019 @ 10:35 amsnowflake soccer moms are a cancer to society. Just go away.
mg (ebf6c2) — 11/18/2019 @ 11:35 am30. 36. Rush liked to say that the reason he owned his radio show was s that he couldn’t be thrown off the air. Which could happen for all kinds of reasons
Sammy Finkelman (976d9e) — 11/18/2019 @ 11:49 amPeople forget how unpopular Mencken was during most his lifetime with the Establishment. During WW1, he was “Pro-German” and nearly got lynched. From 1933 his attacks on FDR/New Deal made him pariah with the Liberals, and his column in the Baltimore Sun was stopped in 1940-1945 because he was too isolationist. The only time Mencken was truly popular with the liberal establishment was from 1920-1929. Then, his constant attacks on “100% Americanism” Christianity, and Coolidge/Harding made him a God.
Williamson could be in same mold. Popular when Obama was President. Now Passe.
rcocean (1a839e) — 11/18/2019 @ 12:40 pmOur Windy City barrister wrote:
What #NeverTrump is is a fantasy, because we already have him. And the only way he isn’t the 2020 Republican presidential nominee is if he just drops stone-cold graveyard dead between now and then.
And that means our only realistic choices are between the re-election of President Trump or some far-left loon nominated by the Democrats. Yes, Mr Trump is a rotten person, but it is the President’s policies that matter. Do you really prefer someone like Elizabeth Warren as President, and all that entails, over four more years of Trumpian drama but at least some decent government policies?
The realistic Dana (13dd7c) — 11/18/2019 @ 1:51 pm… conveniently ignoring the fact that he can and should be lawfully removed from office for treason, obstruction of justice, bribery, election tampering and/or mental incapacity.
Since that would require Republicans in Congress to risk the consequences of doing the right thing.
Dave (1bb933) — 11/18/2019 @ 2:16 pmh+this si what the New York Times reported in today’s paper:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/17/us/denver-radio-host-fired-in-mid-show-after-criticizing-trump.html
It also started:
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 11/18/2019 @ 2:26 pmhttps://twitter.com/ChuckandJulie1
Above is the Twitter of other hosts at KNUS. Facts and testimony coming out that puts Silverman in the hucksters category. He fooled a lot of people.
BuDuh (7cff7d) — 11/18/2019 @ 2:45 pm176. Meh. If KNUS really is a pro-Trump outfit, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if their “explanation” for the Silverman debacle turns out to be an elaborate CYA. On the other hand, I’m still a believer in Occam’s razor and it certainly looks like Silverman hasn’t clothed himself in glory. I’m not sure what to believe at this point.
Gryph (08c844) — 11/18/2019 @ 2:54 pm@177. See #169. The ‘whiff’ seems to be taking on a stench.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/18/2019 @ 4:18 pm