Patterico's Pontifications

9/26/2019

Trump Likens Whistleblower To A Spy, Waxes Nostalgic About Historical Consequences For Spying and Treason

Filed under: General — Dana @ 11:59 am



[guest post by Dana]

Speaking at a private event at the Intercontinental Hotel in New York, President Trump lashed out at the whistleblower and aides who passed on the information that lead to the complaint at the heart of the impeachment inquiry:

President Trump expressed disgust Thursday morning with the explosive whistleblower complaint, slamming the intelligence officer and the White House aides who helped him or her as “almost a spy” and suggested it was treason.

Speaking at a private event in New York, Trump described reporters as “scum” and raged at the Democrats’ new impeachment proceedings, which were spurred by the whistleblower’s complaint alleging that Trump tried to strong-arm Ukraine’s leader to interfere in the 2020 election.

“Basically, that person never saw the report, never saw the call, he never saw the call — heard something and decided that he or she, or whoever the hell they saw — they’re almost a spy,” Trump said.

I want to know who’s the person, who’s the person who gave the whistleblower the information? Because that’s close to a spy,” he continued. “You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart? Right? The spies and treason, we used to handle it a little differently than we do now.

The president then went on to recap his conversation with Zelensky, which he claimed was “perfect”:

“They said, ‘Was he pressuring you?’” Trump said, describing the question to Zelensky, who responded that he hadn’t felt any “push” but also said he didn’t want to get involved in a U.S. political squabble.

“You know, these animals in the press,” Trump went on. “They’re animals, some of the worst human beings you’ll ever meet.”

Someone in the room shouted out “Fake news!” egging the president on.

“They’re scum,” Trump continued. “Many of them are scum, and then you have some good reporters, but not many of them, I’ll be honest with you.”

Additionally, he attacked Joe Biden as well:

“And then you have Sleepy Joe Biden who’s dumb as a rock,” Trump went on. “This guy was dumb on his best day and he’s not having his best day right now. He’s dumb as a rock. So you have Sleepy Joe and his kid, who’s got a lot of problems, he got thrown out of the Navy — look, I’m not going to, it’s a problem … so we won’t get into why. He got thrown out of the Navy and now this kid goes into Ukraine, walks away with millions of dollars, he becomes a consultant for $50,000 a month and he doesn’t know anything compared to anybody at this firm. He’s a stiff. He knows nothing. He’s walking away with $50,000.”

We now know that the whistleblower is a C.I.A. officer who was detailed to work at the White House at one point in time.

Observation: In the same breath, a sitting US president is not only demanding the names of individuals involved with providing information to a whistleblower, and the name of the whistleblower himself, but he is doing so while pointing out the historical consequences for spying and committing treason. The president appears oblivious or ignorant about whistleblower protections and how his intimidating remarks might stifle other potential whistleblowers. Given Trump’s remarks, is it any wonder the whistleblower in this case wouldn’t want to be publicly identified? This should trouble all of us.

–Dana

238 Responses to “Trump Likens Whistleblower To A Spy, Waxes Nostalgic About Historical Consequences For Spying and Treason”

  1. Preemptive strike: An attendee provided reporters with a recording of President Trump’s comments.

    Dana (05f22b)

  2. How dare he tell the truth!

    “President Trump expressed disgust Thursday morning with the explosive whistleblower complaint, slamming the intelligence officer and the White House aides who helped him or her as “almost a spy” and suggested it was treason.”

    noel (f22371)

  3. Dana:

    The president appears oblivious or ignorant about whistleblower protections and how his intimidating remarks might stifle other potential whistleblowers.

    Oh, I think he is perfectly aware of both, and does not care.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  4. So was valerie plame, now ned price was one of sben rhodes drones,

    Narciso (beeb9a)

  5. Totally surprising that the moron is actively moron’ing. He’s trying to get the Senate to remove him, he must be, because it is not rational for a human person to be this stupid and still be able to feed himself.

    25th Amendment is the immediate solution because he is unable to function in the roll as president.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  6. Hill Republicans…. I see nothing. Nothing!

    noel (f22371)

  7. Obviously he spent some ‘executive time’ catching ‘Atomic Blonde’ on cable.

    Charlize is hot for a Cold Warrior, eh, Captain, sir?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  8. As fred fleitz pointed out, you dont get ti turn a policy dispute, into a crimimal matter.

    Narciso (beeb9a)

  9. It seems Trump is not really keen on details and stuff like that.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  10. He loves the Mob, dicatators and crooked lawyers. Almost as much as he loves himself.

    And he has his hand on the nuclear button. I kid you not.

    noel (f22371)

  11. “The president appears oblivious or ignorant about whistleblower protections and how his intimidating remarks might stifle other potential whistleblowers.“

    The guy isn’t a whistleblower. You can’t be a whistleblower on the president. So, quit anointing him a status he’s not entitled to.

    While we fret over repercussions to real whistleblowers in the future, are we unconcerned about the repercussions pertaining to future presidents’ expectation of confidentiality in discussions with foreign counterparts? I guess so.

    Munroe (53beca)

  12. …are we unconcerned about the repercussions pertaining to future presidents’ expectation of confidentiality in discussions with foreign counterparts?

    You mean, on a call where there were about a dozen people listening in from our side, and certainly at least a few from theirs? And the president knew that? (Or should have known.) Tell me what possible expectation of confidentiality could be had under those circumstances.

    Demosthenes (8e3e9d)

  13. >While we fret over repercussions to real whistleblowers in the future, are we unconcerned about the repercussions pertaining to future presidents’ expectation of confidentiality in discussions with foreign counterparts? I guess so.

    Yes, the risk to future presidents’ expectation of confidentiality in discussions with foreign policy is real. Yes, there is a long term danger stemming from that.

    But that long-term danger is a smaller problem than the long-term danger involved in normalizing the practice of the President using foreign powers to help him win re-election.

    We’re past the point where there are choices that involve no damage. We can only look at the various harms and decide which harms are the least harmful.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  14. @ Appalled,

    Oh, I think he is perfectly aware of both, and does not care.

    Oh, I think you are ultimately right in this, and how sad is that.

    Dana (05f22b)

  15. He’s not a whistleblower.
    He used the legalese surrounding whistleblower protections to give himself cover to introduce hearsay and conjecture as evidence.

    The people who fed him the second and third hand information would have been true whistleblowers, but lacked the courage or waqnted to protect their cover instead they chose to break the law by leaking confidential information.

    This bothers me more than the phone call with the Ukrainians does

    steveg (354706)

  16. “Tell me what possible expectation of confidentiality could be had under those circumstances.”
    Demosthenes (8e3e9d) — 9/26/2019 @ 12:37 pm

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/ready-to-blow-a-gasket-cnn-analyst-loses-it-over-whistleblower-who-filed-complaint-against-trump

    Munroe (53beca)

  17. Oh, I think he is perfectly aware of both, and does not care.

    Then, Appalled, do you believe this should advance the comments from “intimidating remarks” to a more serious “veiled warning” category? I do.

    Dana (05f22b)

  18. “This bothers me more than the phone call with the Ukrainians does” says steveg

    Yup. That sums it up. It’s another “Shoot Somebody on Fifth Ave” adherent.

    noel (f22371)

  19. #13

    Y’know, if a President prioritizes making sure his enemies get prosecuted in some foreign country over, I don’t know, actual US interests, then I am just fine that he loses any expectation of confidentiality.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  20. @ 16:

    Ah, yes. And if one guy says it, it must be true.

    I say again, when you know there are over a dozen people listening to you, you should know you are not having a private conversation. The mic is always hot.

    Demosthenes (8e3e9d)

  21. Appalled, the issue is that *future* presidents will lose *some* of their expectation of confidentiality, too. Or that the foreign leaders those future presidents are will.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  22. Most of the grounded folks have bolted the White House. Those that are left might just think that all of this is normal.

    noel (f22371)

  23. This bothers me more than the phone call with the Ukrainians does

    That seems to be a you problem.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  24. And again he says… “Witch Hunt , It’s a Witch Hunt”.

    OK, Donald, this hunt aint gonna last long if you keep tossing smoking guns out the front door.

    noel (f22371)

  25. aphrael,

    This is a unique case, as much as the Trump sorts try to gaslight us into thinking it isn’t. A President Pence may get some blowback on the confidentiality, if Trump departs before the end of his term. I don’t think any other figure will feel like their confidentiality is threatened, once there is no Donald. As for Trump’s thoughts — if it bothers him, he can quit.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  26. Pence. He knows what’s going on and keeps silent. Nodding when appropriate. Smiling on cue.

    noel (f22371)

  27. But judges…because President Pence would only put up hyper liberal progressive commies for judgeship.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  28. Hello? This was supposed to be an “off the record” talk. That of course, someone leaked and some newspaper picked out the bits to make Trump look as bad as possible. Does anyone want to be held to what they say in PRIVATE as opposed to what they say in Public? I guess all the Never trumpers would. They’re angels.

    Second, anyone who thinks Trump is saying someone should be shot isn’t playing with a full deck. But in any case, as people were writing (Not Patterico he’s too sensible) two days ago, Trump is finished because Ukraine Collusion or Obstruction or whatever. The Walls are closing in. We’ve got him this time.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  29. More anonymous sourcing like the gatestone report.

    Narciso (beeb9a)

  30. Whoever was leaking to the CIA guy needs to be found and fired. Trump not only “lock down” his talks with foreign leaders, he should make 100% certain that no one who isn’t 100% trustworthy knows about them. IF you don’t like Trump, then quit the White House and go to the News Media. Don’t leak to some CIA guy and have him put it in a fake whistleblower account.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  31. There should be an over/under as to when the whistleblower gets outed, because it will happen, and it won’t be pretty.
    It’ll be PlameGate 2.0, but with quadruple the death threats against the poor twat.

    Paul Montagu (f2c051)

  32. I’m not sure which is more amazing, that my president’s public comments are no different from someone you might be sitting next to at a bar after he’s had a couple or the fact that I still think he’s a better president than the clown preceding was or the demon he defeated would have been.

    harkin (58d012)

  33. Personally, I think we’re going to find out someone big in Thump’s inner circle or cabinet has been stabbing him in the back. I think there’s a high place “Mole”. Kushner? Wray? There’s someone. Remember the mysterious NYT OP-ed about a member of the “Resistance” keeping Trump under control.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  34. Whoever was leaking to the CIA guy needs to be found and fired. Trump not only “lock down” his talks with foreign leaders, he should make 100% certain that no one who isn’t 100% trustworthy knows about them. IF you don’t like Trump, then quit the White House and go to the News Media. Don’t leak to some CIA guy and have him put it in a fake whistleblower account.

    Or maybe, I know this is out there, that president guy should probably stop breaking the law. I know, it’s out there.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  35. Hillary called people “deplorables” in public. I wonder what she was calling Trump voters in PRIVATE.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  36. Hillary called people “deplorables” in public. I wonder what she was calling Trump voters in PRIVATE.

    Who cares? She’s not president, and in this instance, she’s right.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  37. The president appears oblivious or ignorant about whistleblower protections and how his intimidating remarks might stifle other potential whistleblowers.

    This is exactly the type of thing that might – MIGHT – eventually do him in. His pathological contempt for the rule of law. There are laws that say threatening whistle-blowers with retaliation is a crime. Sure, sure … Article 2, OLC memo, and all that, but repeated insistence that the president – *this* president – is at liberty to break any law he wants, whenever he wants, will eventually become harder and harder for the schmucks in the GOP senate caucus to stand behind.

    The report that he may put Lewandowski – one of the few people in America who is both as vile AND as stupid as him – in charge of his impeachment defense is more good news, if true.

    A GOP senator was quoted yesterday as saying if the vote were secret, 30 Republican senators would vote to convict Trump, and it’s not hard to believe. At some point, they may decide – as they should have long ago – to cut their losses and solve their Trump problem once and for all.

    Dave (1bb933)

  38. Lewandowski says he has not had formal convo with officials re Trump and his impeachment.

    Dana (82b09c)

  39. Lewandowski says he has not had formal convo with officials re Trump and his impeachment.

    Lewandowski also says (proudly!) that he lies to the American people whenever it suits him to do so, for any reason or no reason.

    Dave (1bb933)

  40. “No collusion”. Maybe he should try that line again?? His followers would buy it.

    noel (f22371)

  41. “Lewandowski also says (proudly!) that he lies to the American people whenever it suits him to do so, for any reason or no reason.”
    Dave (1bb933) — 9/26/2019 @ 2:54 pm

    Provide the quote. Otherwise, this is a lie.

    Munroe (53beca)

  42. “I have no obligation to be honest with the media.”
    Corey Lewandowski, confronted with a lie he told in a nationally broadcast television interview

    Dave (1bb933)

  43. 12:

    “You mean, on a call where there were about a dozen people listening in from our side, and certainly at least a few from theirs? And the president knew that? (Or should have known.) Tell me what possible expectation of confidentiality could be had under those circumstances.”

    -So there is a “known by 24, secrecy is out the door” rule I don’t know about?

    Does Chelsea Manning know about this?

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  44. Dave has a great point. Since he’s asserted he’s under no obligation to be honest in his public statements why pay attention to what the little guy says?

    Time123 (d54166)

  45. well the times burned ‘the wolf’ as he was called in zero dark 30, (played by mark strong) when he was selected to coordinate anti iran operation, of course kirikaou put the lives of his colleagues in danger by letting the al queda detainees lawyers, know about their names and that of their families,

    narciso (d1f714)

  46. 42:

    And candor with media existed in full before 2016.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  47. HFM, why would I pay attention to the words of someone that has said openly and proudly they aren’t obligated to be honest with me? I understand he was specifically talking about the media, but since I will only see/ hear his words through the media there’s no difference in the distinction.

    Time123 (d54166)

  48. To Trump, a whistleblower is just a “rat”. And today, the President of the United States attacked a whistleblower and the others who dared tell the truth of “treason”.

    Unbelievable.

    noel (f22371)

  49. Why haven’t we heard from the people saying, “Hold on, now! This doesn’t sound like anything that Donald Trump would do!”?

    John B Boddie (11ac33)

  50. Time123 (d54166) — 9/26/2019 @ 3:28 pm

    If you watch the whole clip, he commits himself to telling the truth only when sworn under oath “by some authority.”

    In some grotesque sense, this is marginally preferable to Trump’s “I’ve never said a dishonest word in my life” schtick, I suppose.

    Dave (1bb933)

  51. Dave (1bb933) — 9/26/2019 @ 3:19 pm

    “media”, “people” — same thing, right?

    So when the media lies, the “people” are lying, amirite?

    You could’ve left it at face value, but you pulled a Lewandowski instead.

    Munroe (53beca)

  52. And candor with media existed in full before 2016.

    Republicans used to value honesty.

    Today, not so much.

    Dave (1bb933)

  53. A GOP senator was quoted yesterday as saying if the vote were secret, 30 Republican senators would vote to convict Trump, and it’s not hard to believe. At some point, they may decide – as they should have long ago – to cut their losses and solve their Trump problem once and for all.

    Funny how this “GOP Senator” refused to put his name to it. OR name which 30 GOP’er would impeach. having said that, i don’t doubt for a second that the RINO sisters, Mittens, Sasse, Burr, a couple others wold LOVE Trump to be impeached. Then, they could go back to selling-out America and “reaching across the aisle” and pushing for Amnesty, Open borders, and globalism.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  54. Munroe (53beca) — 9/26/2019 @ 3:38 pm

    I’m not at all surprised by your dishonest twisting of my words.

    No, Munroe.

    The media aren’t in business to disseminate peoples’ words to themselves. They are a vanishingly small fraction of the audience. When somebody lies in a broadcast interview, they are lying to people who see, hear and read about it.

    If Lewandowski didn’t want to lie to the audience, he could decline to appear on camera, or to answer questions. But that’s not his goal. His goal is to lie to people susceptible to his message. To YOU, in other words.

    And you lap it up and beg for more.

    Bon Appetit!

    Dave (1bb933)

  55. Dave (1bb933) — 9/26/2019 @ 3:49 pm

    I twisted nothing. Your words, taken at face value were classic Lewandowski-esque word smithing.

    Munroe (53beca)

  56. Munroe (53beca) — 9/26/2019 @ 4:00 pm

    Bless your heart.

    Dave (1bb933)

  57. Dave, when it comes to Munroe you have to be open to the possibility that he’s being sincere, but just…well….he’s….he tries okay. He’s doing his best.

    Time123 (096e87)

  58. Off-topic – I fear the worst if nk gets wind of this story:

    Labradoodle creator says he regrets ‘Frankenstein’s monster’

    Dave (1bb933)

  59. Does Chelsea Manning know about this?

    If she/he would have followed the legally allowed route to surface an issue as a whistle-blower, then sure. But she/he didn’t and the person in this case did, but it’s nice that you pointed at the wrong way to do something as an excuse for the right way to do it.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  60. Weird question, are the Senate votes re impeachment is tallied by alphabetical order of State represented, or by alphabetical order of Senators last name? Asking for someone who once felt it was OK to vote by ones conscience and could be the magic #67 if roll call is by state.

    urbanleftbehind (46fef7)

  61. I would say the latter the way it is with all rollcall votes, look we’ve seen how the parliament and the supreme court in the uk has no allegiance to the country, but to the merkel org, so it wouldn’t surprise me,

    narciso (d1f714)


  62. Bernie Sanders
    @BernieSanders
    Trump described the whistleblower as “treasonous.” I think treasonous activity is a president trying to undermine the Constitution of the United States.
    __ _

    Ben Shapiro
    @benshapiro
    Local man with warm words for virtually every communist dictatorship of the last half-century has thoughts on treason

    _

    harkin (58d012)

  63. 52:

    “Republicans used to value honesty. Today, not so much.”

    “Honesty” =”When Republicans concede the accuracy of ludicrous charges, refrain from deflective and contextual “Whataboutsism,” and enable a democratic victory.” A given for Never Trumpers. Note: this does not apply to Trump.”

    Democrats once professed to value due process, free speech, national security, motherhood, honesty and apple pie. Only the pie is left.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  64. no not even, consider april ryans venomous reaction to sarah sander’s recipe,

    narciso (d1f714)

  65. 47/50:

    Almost as if they went to the “Ben Rhodes School of Media Honesty,” gloating about snowing 27 year olds “who know nothing,” and are given baseless spin to develop an echo chamber.

    But it sounds better from Rhodes.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  66. > A GOP senator was quoted yesterday as saying if the vote were secret, 30 Republican senators would vote to convict Trump

    As I said yesterday in response to that: if true, all thirty of them should be thrown out of office and it should be a permanent negative mark against them if they ever seek office again.

    This issue is far too important, one way or another, for public officials to be saying one thing in public and another in private.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  67. president mr. trump the donald can do no wrong because he is the chosen one who will right all wrongs so there

    nk (9651fb)

  68. Appalled, at 25: the question we need to ask in assessing that risk is what effect it has on the perception of confidentiality of the guy who becomes the Prime Minister of Turkey twenty years ago, when only the vaguest details of contemporary US events remain in the public memory in his country.

    To assert there’s no risk that he remembers some vague reason to believe that the US can’t be trusted to keep conversations confidential seems … overconfident.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  69. But that long-term danger is a smaller problem than the long-term danger involved in normalizing the practice of the President using foreign powers to help him win re-election.

    What evidence can you offer that this is the first time, or even remotely close to the first time, that such a thing has occurred? All we know is that THIS TIME somebody involved decided that Trump crossed a line.

    As I’ve said before, Trump’s campaign and election challenged several bipartisan policies (e.g. globalization and associated capital outflows) and he beat BOTH parties doing it. That knives are especially sharp when it comes to Trump should not be surprising, and when one lands in his back it’s not necessarily the way things used to happen.

    (and sure, he should know this and watch his Six, but that’s a different discussion)

    Kevin M (19357e)

  70. Weird question, are the Senate votes re impeachment is tallied by alphabetical order of State represented, or by alphabetical order of Senators last name? Asking for someone who once felt it was OK to vote by ones conscience and could be the magic #67 if roll call is by state.

    How’s this for an SNL cold-open:

    After tense months of hearings and testimony, the senate is finally preparing to vote on the fate of his Royal Orangeness. With gradual defections from all the GOP senators who’ve always hated him, Sean Hannity reports live from the Senate gallery that nobody can tell which way the vote will go.

    Trump is understandably nervous as he chats with Vlad from the Oval Office on the (pink, heart-shaped) hotline phone. Never one to leave anything to chance, Vlad assures him that there is nothing to worry about and everything is going according to plan.

    Cut back to the floor of the senate. A few recognizable and reliably anti-Trump senators (should include crowd-favorites Cruz, Mittens, Rubio and Bernie) are standing around conferring when several obviously (and badly) disguised Russians sneak up behind and slip each of them a mickey. Trump and Putin have brought in Russian and Ukrainian “senators” to tilt the impeachment vote in the senate itself!

    The quality of the Russian disguises and accents is so bad that everybody immediately realizes what’s going on and plays to character. Mike Pence shakes his head and tries to look the other way. Hannity tries to play along by “interviewing” the fake senators as if they were legit, making himself look like the treasonous stooge he is. The Democrats freak-out ineffectively. It begins to look like Trump and Putin might actually get away with this, their most improbable and far-fetched crime, as the faux senators line up to cast the deciding votes to acquit Trump.

    But wait! Leaping from balcony of the Senate gallery, in a Matrix-like slo-mo combat effect, Valyrian steel drawn, it’s Kate McKinnon as Arya Stark no, wait beneath that balaclava it’s actually…Hillary Clinton…impaling the Russians with a single deadly stroke, before informing us that LIVE FROM NEW YORK IT’S SATURDAY NIGHT!

    Dave (1bb933)

  71. that president guy should probably stop breaking the law.

    There are so MANY laws.

    https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent-ebook/dp/B00505UZ4G

    Kevin M (19357e)

  72. Dave, or how about this:

    The vote is 66-33 and there’s a commotion as ailing Mitt Romney is being carried into the chamber to cast the last vote. But then there’s a commotion, and shots ring out. An overweight guy in a mask has shot Mitt to death, leaving behind only an orange toupee.

    Can you spot the Orange Toupee’s mistake?

    Kevin M (19357e)

  73. Dave, they are all lying. Every. Last. One.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  74. Can you spot the Orange Toupee’s mistake?

    Hmmm.

    Well, for one thing, if Mittens (PBUH) is dead, the motion to impeach passes 66-33, with a 2/3’s supermajority. Math is hard, etc.

    Or else, I dunno, he shoulda capped him on Fifth Avenue?

    Dave (1bb933)

  75. Honestly, my only thought is: “Why don’t these assholes ‘fight with each other’ like this when Trump signs trillion dollar deficit spending bills?” Fight! Pshaw! Maybe like dogs over the same bone, and the bone will end up eaten no matter what.

    nk (9651fb)

  76. 60. urbanleftbehind (46fef7) — 9/26/2019 @ 4:13 pm

    Weird question, are the Senate votes re impeachment is tallied by alphabetical order of State represented, or by alphabetical order of Senators last name?

    Roll call votes are by Senator’s last name, and if two Senators have the same last name, probably in alphabetical order of first name but identified by state. In oter wordd: Mr JOHNSON of Louisiana, Mr JOHNSON of West Vrrginia.

    But Senators can pass, or maybe not be on the floor, and the missing Senators’ names will be called again until the time for voting has expired.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  77. Imagine how Trump’s supporters would respond if Obama joked about executing a whistleblower in the Benghazi or Lerner scandals.

    I will say, it should surprise no one Trump is trying to collude with a foreign nation. Again.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  78. The President should have no expectation of confidentiality at all if he is breaking the law. The President is not the king. He works for us. The FBI and the CIA and the entire intelligence community and the entire government, in fact, are supposed to work for us. It is not their job or their responsibility to protect the President from the law. Sometimes it is their job to protect the law from the President.

    When a public figure is talking to the media, they are doing it in the same way I am talking to my phone. They are really talking through the media to the public, like I talking through my phone to the person on the other end of the line. If someone is lying to the media, they are lying to you through the media. (yes, yes, it’s an oldtimey phone with a bad connection.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  79. Meanwhile….

    Beto O’Rourke
    @BetoORourke
    Yesterday, people brought assault weapons to our rally at Kent State—where 4 students were shot dead in 1970.

    I told them nobody should show up with an AK-47 or an AR-15 to seek to intimidate us in our own democracy.

    We need to buy back every single one of them.
    __ _

    T. Becket Adams
    @BecketAdams

    wait until he finds out who did the shooting at Kent State.
    _

    harkin (58d012)

  80. The ‘whistleblower’ is only a whistleblower due to carefully crafted lawyering to fit the statute.
    CBS is reporting that the one person ID’d by the Hearsay guy as being on the call, one T. Ulrich Brechbuhl, was not in fact on the call. Granted the Hearsay guy did hit a lot of the notes on the call, but its his/her embellishments that are not so much.

    This type of work is why we now call “grassroots movements” astroturf

    steveg (354706)

  81. #18 and #23

    No.
    Its definitely a you problem

    steveg (354706)

  82. Tell me what on the call rises to the level of shoot someone on Fifth Avenue nitwit

    steveg (354706)

  83. It bothers me when people abuse “whistleblower” protections because we need real whistleblowers.
    It bothers me when people put nooses on their own doors and claim a racist attack.

    These fakes and hearsays diminish the real thing.
    I think you are part of that diminishment, but I believe its probably nothing you have control over

    steveg (354706)

  84. Tom Nichols:

    In his usual emulation of the mob bosses and dictators he admires, the president said: “I want to know who’s the person, who’s the person who gave the whistleblower the information? Because that’s close to a spy. You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart? Right? The spies and treason, we used to handle it a little differently than we do now.”
    He means the death penalty, of course.
    […]
    This time, a CIA officer is trying to protect his nation by warning his superiors of a danger emanating from the Oval Office itself. This was not some rogue nitwit stuffing classified material in her pantyhose like Reality Winner, or a self-important stooge like Edward Snowden collaborating with our avowed enemies overseas. This is an intelligence community professional who, as Acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph McGuire confirmed repeatedly to the House Intelligence Committee, went through all the proper channels and observed every legal necessity to alert his colleagues that the president was trying to muscle an American friend under attack by Russia into doing his personal bidding.
    The whistleblower’s reward for observing proper procedure has been a chorus of orchestrated Republican talking points aimed at discrediting him and his motives. The message from the GOP is clear to this and any other whistleblower who might ever threaten a Republican president: Cross our Dear Leader, and we will destroy you. Such is the patriotism of a party that is now nothing more than a seedy cult of personality. Even Sen. Mitt Romney — not exactly a tower of courage himself these days — said recently about the Republicans trying to avert their eyes from Trump’s misdeeds: “I think it’s very natural for people to look at circumstances and see them in the light that’s most amenable to their maintaining power, and doing things to preserve that power.”

    Speaking of mob bosses, here’s Brando, doing his best Trump imitation.

    Paul Montagu (f2c051)

  85. I’m a little grumpy because Adam Schiff plagiarized Patricks riff and didn’t even give him a tip ‘o the hat

    steveg (354706)

  86. The ‘whistleblower’ is only a whistleblower due to carefully crafted lawyering to fit the statute.

    By which you mean doing it the exactly right way as directed by law. Unlike the dumdum in the White House.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  87. Tell me what on the call rises to the level of shoot someone on Fifth Avenue nitwit

    That’s homocide, whether justified or not it might not be a crime. But, of course, that is not this, so why all the handwaving? This is the president trying to get a foreign power to dig up dirt on his domestic political enemies, i.e. “high Crimes and Misdemeanors”.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  88. It bothers me when people abuse “whistleblower” protections because we need real whistleblowers.

    This is the definition of whistleblower, and Trump’s little baby-cums tirade at the UN shows why it’s needed.

    It bothers me when people put nooses on their own doors and claim a racist attack.

    Sure, unrelated, but…SQUIRREL

    These fakes and hearsays diminish the real thing.

    Hearsay is in fact allowable as evidense, the federal rules of evidence allow for more than 30 different hearsay exceptions. And impeachment can rely on hearsay, rumor, or anything else. Also what is “hearsays” and what is the “real thing”

    I think you are part of that diminishment, but I believe its probably nothing you have control over

    ???

    Also Also, Cheeto jeezus has admitted it using his mouth hole, and his shill Giuly has admitted it from his mouth hole, multiple times each. So the “whistle blower” is Donald J Trump and Rudy Tooti.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  89. “Hearsay” is a red herring. The IG stated that there were a dozen officials who listened in on the conversation, and the memorandum of the call was consistent with what the whistleblower reported.

    Paul Montagu (f2c051)

  90. “The president appears oblivious or ignorant about whistleblower protections and how his intimidating remarks might stifle other potential whistleblowers.”

    No, he’s not.

    An “intelligence community” member who ‘whistleblows’ about someone not in his own intelligence community isn’t operating as a whistleblower. He’s operating as a spy.

    Whether he did it out of loyalty to his particular agency, loyalty to a foreign government, loyalty to the Democrat party, or his own mad sense of personal propriety, maintaining a bright-line distinction with deadly force between the two activities is an American tradition in all of America’s interest.

    Less in America’s interest is the continued existence of the CIA, if it continues to employ people who seem to restrict their spying mainly to other Americans.

    Putin, or Clinton, the weak fools, would probably give him a polonium meal or a convenient suicide three months down the line. Those who take pride in America should demand a public execution for all to see.

    Seinfeld Train Game (1174c7)

  91. “He’s operating as a spy.”

    Nice talking point. I hope they managed not to email that one to the Dems.

    Nic (896fdf)

  92. No, he’s not.

    Yes he is.

    An “intelligence community” member who ‘whistleblows’ about someone not in his own intelligence community isn’t operating as a whistleblower. He’s operating as a spy.

    No he’s not.

    Less in America’s interest is the continued existence of the CIA, if it continues to employ people who seem to restrict their spying mainly to other Americans.

    Hyperbole and lies.

    Putin, or Clinton, the weak fools, would probably give him a polonium meal or a convenient suicide three months down the line. Those who take pride in America should demand a public execution for all to see.

    You mean Trump’s butt buddy, and who he supported when she ran against the black guy?

    Public execution, I mean Trump should be impeached sure, or honestly, the 25th amendment should be invoked, but execution? I don’t think anyone is calling for Trump’s execution, are you?

    Please, tell us how Corey is going to save Trump with his genius, or have you dropped the LouieLouie’ndowsky mustache rides?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  93. Sorry, Klink, but working at the White House for a day in a trusted and official capacity doesn’t mean you immediately get to repeat things you overheard that aren’t related to your current job for the entire world to hear. If we can kill Julian Assange and Edward Snowden over it, there’s not going to be any place in life for a rogue CIA agent either.

    “In for a penny, in for a pound.”

    Or, to be sung to the tune of The Simpsons’ “You don’t win friends with salad!”

    It’s not your jurisdiction! It’s not your jurisdiction!

    Seinfeld Train Game (c1f54b)

  94. Sorry, Klink, but working at the White House for a day in a trusted and official capacity doesn’t mean you immediately get to repeat things you overheard that aren’t related to your current job for the entire world to hear.

    Yeah, it’s a real bitch, some guy finding and calling out a president who put national security in the backseat and his personal ambition riding shotgun.

    Paul Montagu (f2c051)

  95. Sorry, Klink, but working at the White House for a day in a trusted and official capacity doesn’t mean you immediately get to repeat things you overheard that aren’t related to your current job for the entire world to hear.

    Actually, you do if you overheard a crime being committed and reported in the the legally required manner.

    I get it, you don’t want Cheeto jeezus to get in deep doodoo for doing the bad thing, again, but that’s really a problem with him, and you, not the witnesses to the crime.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  96. If we can kill Julian Assange and Edward Snowden over it, there’s not going to be any place in life for a rogue CIA agent either.

    Can we, we didn’t because they’re both very much alive. Do you actually know things?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  97. “Waxes Nostalgic About Historical Consequences For Spying . . . ”

    You mean kinda like Mr. Obama talking about the consequences of the 1918 Espionage Act about leakers during his administration?

    Dave (029040)

  98. It’s not your jurisdiction! It’s not your jurisdiction!

    It’s congress jurisdiction, and they’re acting on it.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  99. None of those words, from ‘calling out’ to ‘putting in the backseat’ to ‘ambition riding shotgun’ mean anything in any legal sense. There has been not a single crime filed, only vague insinuations and demands for discovery.

    You seem to prefer using emotionally loaded terms exclusively when confronted with the very plain fact that “trespassers will be shot” is a proper human law. Quite appropriate for a President who ran on ‘build the wall.’

    It’s all about boundaries. Restoration of respect for the rule of law means enforcing personal, personnel, and jurisdictional boundaries with deadly force, perhaps an actual shotgun, and not simply letting loud verbal gesticulators run wild in your country.

    If lawyers and intelligence agencies do not, in the end, respect these boundaries, then there’s no reason to respect their lives or livelihoods. I paid for the CIA to spy on foreigners, not to proclaim America’s secrets and other dirty laundry to them.

    And at least one former CIA agent agrees:

    “Fred Fleitz

    @FredFleitz

    8/ This is such a grevious violation of trust between the IC and the White House that it would not surprise me if IC officers are barred from all access to POTUS phone calls with foreign officials.”

    Seinfeld Train Game (f6cf90)

  100. Flakey-Flake the D’s favorite R Senator is back in the new. Y’see Flakey-Flake say 35 – not -30 GOP senators would vote for impeachment if they got the chance. Of course, Flake didn’t mention that all 35 would’ve impeached trump on Inauguration day 2017, if they could’ve gotten away with it.

    Its not hard to see why Flake, Mittens, Burr, Collins and her Sister Lisa M. (ALASKA-RINO), and Shelby all hate Trump. He exposed their Grift. Which was, go to tell Republicans they were “Severely Conservative” and 110% against Illegal Amnesty, Abortion, Obamacare etc. And then, in the Senate play Failure theater. “Gosh we wanted to fund that Border Wall, but Obama stopped us!“. What a good Con Flakey-Flake had going. Plenty of foreign trips, some Conservative speeches attacking the D’s aka boob bait, and then getting together with the D Senators and dividing up the graft and pork.

    And then Trump came and ruined it. No more shilling for the Big Donors on Amnesty. No more fake rhetoric but actual votes on Obama care, and actually having to vote for Conservative Pro-life judges instead of tossing the boobs some anti-abortion rhetoric. Worst of all, no one cared what Flakey-flake or Rubio said, instead all eyes were on Trump! What a blow to the Senate R egos.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  101. Anyway, I’m sad because Trump is finished. The D’s have the goods on him and the walls are closing in. Trump is a crook, and after he’s driven from office, we can have a real “Conservative” President like Liz Warren in 2020. Back to normal – whew! Just think: open borders, globalism, no immigration restriction, illegals voting and getting health care, China friendly “free” trade, Billions for climate change, medicare for all, a few wars in the middle east, and free everything.

    Finally, the Never Trumper paradise, will have arrived. Trump out, and a REAL conservative Democrat in the White house.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  102. @100 The President is not the King. The loyalty of the government is properly given to the Constitution of the United States and the people of the United States, not to the President alone. The President must also respect the rule of law and if he does not, it is incumbent upon the rest of the government to take the appropriate legal steps to stop him, which in this case would have been to pass the whistleblower’s letter on to congress and let the chips fall as they may. It is not actually their job to be loyal to the President.

    If the President chooses to bar the IC from phone calls in the future because he is afraid they will not cover for his illegal behavior, that is his choice, but it is his choice and his fault, not the fault of the IC because they were following the law.

    It’s the teacher’s fault I got in trouble for hitting the locker because they made me mad. I didn’t doooooooooooooooooooo anything. I was juuuuuuussssttttttt giiiiiiiving a penciiiiiillllll to my frieeeeend (by hurling it point first all the way across the room). Because really I should be hearing from adults the same excuses I hear from children at least once a day, obviously they made him do it.

    Nic (896fdf)

  103. Fred Fleitz had the awesome judgment to work for NewsMax. His work colleague is literally Jerome Corsi.

    Paul Montagu (f2c051)

  104. @101 I’m pretty sure Murkowsky and Collins are public about being pro-choice and neither were ever super on-board against Obamacare IIRC. Romney was practically an Obamacare founding father, so while he made random noises about it, I can’t believe anyone thought he found it particularly morally objectionable. And Murkowsky certainly doesn’t need to owe much party loyalty. She won despite having been primaried and while the party worked actively against her. Her votes just happen to mostly be in line with the Rs. Also, and this is kind of controversial, but Romney’s religion follows a pretty strong set of beliefs. LDS isn’t keen on their version of “Sunday Christians.” They kind of expect you to toe the line on your covenants all week long and honesty is one of the big ones. Some Mormon kids can’t even read fiction books because they aren’t “true”. I suspect he would hear about it from his religious leaders if he didn’t come down on some of the stuff Trump is doing. (No, I am not LDS and frankly think it’s umm, not very credible, but they do, and they tend to take it seriously.)

    @102 Sometimes something happens that does so much damage to your brand that you have to take time to rebuild and/or rebrand. Trump may be that something and the Rs may have to eat some losses in order to regain credibility.

    Nic (896fdf)

  105. The republican party is finished. 75% of people that voted for republican congress critters will never vote for them again. Adios you pathetic, traitorous pos.

    mg (8cbc69)

  106. The republican party is finished.

    I agree. It died when a plurality nominated a carnival barker as party standard-bearer. And goody, I’m in this dead party.

    Paul Montagu (f2c051)

  107. Sorry trump haters here president trump will never be convicted in the senate. At the debate unless they shut her up tulsi gabbard will ask groper joe what qualification his son hunter had to sit on the board of berisma at 50,000 dollars a month. Then if she is not dragged off the stage she can ask biden why didn’t he recuse himself instead of getting the ukraine prosecutor fired?

    lany (5ae753)

  108. The republican party is finished. 75% of people that voted for republican congress critters will never vote for them again. Adios you pathetic, traitorous pos.

    mg, have you ever voted for them? I though you voted the straight Survival-bunker ticket.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  109. Dave (029040) — 9/26/2019 @ 9:38 pm

    To avoid any confusion, this was not posted by me, the Dave you all know and hate love, who has been using the “Dave” handle on this site for the last couple years, and also earlier in this thread…

    Dave (1bb933)

  110. Col. Kline @ 94

    “ Public execution, I mean Trump should be impeached sure, or honestly, the 25th amendment should be invoked, but execution? I don’t think anyone is calling for Trump’s execution, are you?”

    Bill Weld, call your office.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-primary-candidate-bill-weld-accused-trump-treason-death-penalty-2019-9

    Jeff Lebowski (0b16c9)

  111. At the debate unless they shut her up tulsi gabbard will ask groper joe what qualification his son hunter had to sit on the board of berisma at 50,000 dollars a month.

    Heh. You must not have watched the two debates she was in, where she made excuses for Joe’s busing stance and Iraq war vote, while slandering his chief critic for putting criminals in jail. (Ironically, in her Army gig, Tulsi is an MP…)

    Tulsi’s in the race for one reason – to be Joe’s VP. And heaven help anyone who gets in her way.

    Dave (1bb933)

  112. Doddering old guy + hot new ingenue presidential ticket…where I have I seen that before?

    urbanleftbehind (438c6f)

  113. I have always voted for republicans.No more. I am still scrubbing the slime off me from voting for boosh, mclame and mittens. Republicans are useless and disposable.

    mg (8cbc69)

  114. So, what does FoxNews put up for a headline this morning…. “Ukrainian Official Appears to Cast Doubt on quid pro quo Claim”

    OK. I will just tell you that I am literally laughing here. Are these folks for real? The summary of Trump’s call is right there for all to read. He was caught red-handed. Please stop embarrassing yourselves, FoxNews.

    Expecting the leadership in Ukraine to publicly rebuke the US President is crazy stupid.

    noel (f22371)

  115. So, if you’re on Team not-Shep over there, is OANN or Blaze a better escape hatch?

    urbanleftbehind (438c6f)

  116. mg #114 —

    Funny thing. I feel much the same way. Though in my case, it’s the GOP slime of following, enabling, and rhetorically supporting Trump. I even share your disdain of Ryan. He could hve opposed Trump as Speaker of the House, and taken his licks, instead of slinking off to the real corridor of power — the Board of Fox News.

    Appalled (7fbd02)

  117. ‘So, what does FoxNews put up for a headline this morning…. “Ukrainian Official Appears to Cast Doubt on quid pro quo Claim”’
    noel (f22371) — 9/27/2019 @ 3:39 am

    Yeah, they had to retract that after beclowning themselves … oh wait, that was ABC in a report that asserted the exact opposite. I’m sure you called that out.

    Munroe (53beca)

  118. Yeah, that “unnamed” Ukrainian official has been outed as Viktor Shokin, who was shaking down companies with threatened “investigations” until Shokin, you know SOP in Ukraine, until all western countries insisted he be fired before aid would be granted. He’s also the guy who’s been feeding Giuliani all the conspiracy theories, that he in turn fed Trump.

    There’s a reason why he’s unnamed, naming him makes the report look silly.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  119. Ukraine pretty much depends on the goodwill of America for its existence. Putin can walk in any time Trump gives him the wink and nod. So anything Trump might ask of Ukraine is quid pro quo.

    I gave Trump the benefit of the doubt, initially, but I am no longer convinced that Trump was only looking to see that justice was done on the evil American who might have committed a crime in Ukraine and his daddy derailed the prosecution, and not that Trump was not just trying to gin up — yes, gin up not uncover — dirt against Joe Biden with the help of the Ukrainian government.

    nk (9651fb)

  120. Come on, Munroe.

    Must be hard. Everyday. To come up with some semblance of lies or corruption to point to… as a distraction from the constant lies and corruption of this President. Exhausting.

    noel (f22371)

  121. Right, noel, we should follow your example and focus more on the honest politicians. Which are Biden, and who else…?

    Munroe (53beca)

  122. No one is saying Biden is a good guy. In fact, this has nothing to do with Biden. Trump did the deed, he’s admitted it …. a lot.
    Trump=bad doesn’t mean Biden=good.

    Colonel Klink (ret) (6e7a1c)

  123. OK, not Biden. Who? No answer? I want us all to think positive going forward, so let’s rally around someone honest.

    Munroe (53beca)

  124. How about Pence, or Cruz, or Ryan, or Paul or Halley, or Romney?

    How about when there’s evidence to suspect that a serious crime was committed that we take it seriously and investigate regardless of who is in office. The GOP controlled house investigated Bengazi, Fast and Furious and the IRS scandal. Those were all fair inquiry based on reasonable suspicions of wrong doing.

    And before your usual wimper about something else that’s not getting investigated I’ll preemptively tell you to take it up with Trump’s DOJ. His people have been running it for 3 years. If the investigation isn’t happening but should be, it’s on them.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  125. Right, Munroe. “They’re all crooked”. Yea. I’m hearing that all of the time now.

    No, they are not and you know it. That is why some are impeached and others are not. Some are in jail. Most are not. Some lose elections and others don’t. I happen to know a few politicians in Washington. All decent folks. They don’t lie every day. They don’t bully people. Nor make false accusations while spreading conspiracy theories. And they sure as hell don’t scheme with foreign powers to dig up dirt on opponents… like your guy does.

    noel (f22371)

  126. Time, fair answer, but none of those are running for president in 2020. We can talk pie in the sky scenarios where someone gets drafted after a Trump impeachment before 2020, but that’s ridiculous. Trump’s people “running” DOJ for 3 years is a total canard, as most of that time he had to keep hands off else be accused of obstruction by the exact same people.

    When one of your “honest” politicians becomes president, I will watch the Kavanaughesque inquisitions brew up out of every crevice and LMFAO.

    Munroe (53beca)

  127. Trump’s people “running” DOJ for 3 years is a total canard, as most of that time he had to keep hands off else be accused of obstruction by the exact same people.

    He should 100% keep his hands off. So should every other president.

    Here’s an off the wall suggestion; He could appoint honest people who do their job properly and root out corruption. He could tell them, publicly, to re-examine the decisions around all politically connected investigations of the last 2 years and report back if they met the relevant standards and policy guidelines, provide back indictments and a report on what was done correctly.

    If he really wanted to be all fancy he could have appointed an independent prosecutor. Find some nominal Democrat that had a reputation for being honest and have them go to town.

    He did none of those things. At some point the guy in charge has to be accountable for the results he’s producing. I think 3 years is enough time.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  128. noel (f22371) — 9/27/2019 @ 8:20 am

    The question was: Biden, and who else?

    No answer, noel?

    Munroe (04d79e)

  129. Munroe:

    Who else?

    Anybody else. (Except you and the late lamented happyfeet, and anyone who worked in the Trump White House)

    Appalled (7fbd02)

  130. Who withheld weapons for three years, and who delivered on them, miss taco bell mighr as well have been favorite nieces idiot sister.

    Narciso (beeb9a)

  131. Who else?

    Anybody else.

    That pretty much sums up NeverTrump and it’s never ending claims to integrity and consistency. The only thing missing is “by any means”.

    Frosty, Fp (f27e97)

  132. We’ve lost so many “Life long Republicans” over the last 3 years. Its very, very sad. But then, they didn’t seem to have had much party loyalty to begin with, and wanted the R party to lose if the nominee disagreed with them on immigration or globalism, or didn’t meet their high standards. Maybe, they can support the D’s now. I’m looking forward to the Never-Trumper: “The conservative case for President Liz Warren”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  133. There was no suspension of weapons, shokins affidavit was to an austrian court, lutsenko is tripping on his feet, denying a court not him reopened the burisma inquiry in june.

    Narciso (beeb9a)

  134. But you have to read ukrinform, unian and kyev post at the time the events happened

    Narciso (beeb9a)

  135. Yes, bring back the “honest” folks who sat idly by while our government was weaponized against anyone and anything conservative. Who “worked across the aisle” accomplishing little while in power and absolutely nothing but flooding the country with illegals, serving their donors, capitulating and enjoying the spoils when returned to the role of civil, silent, cowering opposition.

    I was a maniac neverTrumper and, in truth, still wish it could have been someone else. Trump is almost, almost as bad as those his unfortunate but, in hindsight, absolutely necessary presidency has exposed. None of those “honest” folks, even Cruz, the guy I backed and contributed to, would have energized the voters necessary to win, let alone have taken on the establishment and shown the FBI, the DOJ, the State Dept, etc., for the feckless, subhuman trough-feeding trash they are. Even if one of them had won, they’d have been nice, played nice and stopped well short of antagonizing the political/bureaucrat left into a term long effort to overturn a legitimate election.

    I pulled the lever for Trump in the 11th hour in 2016. Next time, I will do so at the opening bell. Not because he is a better person today. Indeed, he has proven to be a lesser man than I could have ever imagined. I am among those 70% who detest the person Trump, and among the subset of that group who will hold his nose and vote for him again. Why? The last three years have shed light on so much we would have never seen, so much we would have never known about the career scum that fill the halls of the Federal government. Scum that cannot be voted out, only exposed and one day, hopefully, rooted out.

    Matador (39e0cd)

  136. The WH admits to another of the whistle-blower’s key accusations:

    Lawyers directed moving call record to a secure system, White House says

    The White House acknowledged Friday that administration officials directed a now-infamous Ukraine call transcript be filed in a highly classified system, confirming allegations contained in a whistleblower complaint that have roiled Washington.

    In a statement provided to CNN, a senior White House official said the move to place the transcript in the system came at the direction of National Security Council attorneys.

    This is a pretty clear indication that Trump’s apparatchik’s were very conscious of how he had broken the law.

    Dave (1bb933)

  137. Remembee how they leaked the mexico and australia calls, yes atkinson was council to mccord and carlin who perpetrated the fraud upon the fisa court.

    Narciso (beeb9a)

  138. “The WH admits to another of the whistle-blower’s key accusations:”
    Dave (1bb933) — 9/27/2019 @ 11:07 am

    WH admits to something else that is not illegal.

    Looks like the Acme roadrunner trap is working perfectly this time.

    Munroe (04d79e)

  139. career scum that fill the halls of the Federal government. Scum that cannot be voted out, only exposed and one day, hopefully, rooted out.

    By your estimation Trump is a fighter that doesn’t mind upsetting people. He’s been there for three years. What has he done to root out this career scum you’re so upset by?

    Time123 (c9382b)

  140. “The WH admits to another of the whistle-blower’s key accusations:”
    Dave (1bb933) — 9/27/2019 @ 11:07 am

    WH admits to something else that is not illegal.

    Looks like the Acme roadrunner trap is working perfectly this time.

    Munroe (04d79e) — 9/27/2019 @ 11:23 am

    You may be right, I don’t know. But the whistle-blower’s complaint provided some evidence what this was improper. What in the relevant statutes lead you to this conclusion?

    Time123 (c9382b)

  141. @134, There’s a difference between not supporting and wanting someone to lose. If neither GOP or Dem aligns with my policy goals why would i support them? If one aligns with my goals slightly but has massive negatives, for instance they’re really corrupt and seem kind of lazy, weak willed, and unstable, why would I support them?

    Time123 (c9382b)

  142. Trump has done nothing to effectuate wholesale change, though McCabe, Strzok are a start.

    Their exposure was an incidental byproduct of Trump’s election.

    Trump will not be the one to see it through, he has stepped on one too many rakes, as well as largely failed his promise to drain the swamp. And, if he survives the latest onslaught, there will be another, and another. He’ll be on defense for as long as he holds the office.

    Maybe, one day, one of the “honest” guys will finish the clean up… Yeah, right.

    Matador (39e0cd)

  143. The WH admits to another of the whistle-blower’s key accusations:

    Lawyers directed moving call record to a secure system, White House says

    The White House acknowledged Friday that administration officials directed a now-infamous Ukraine call transcript be filed in a highly classified system, confirming allegations contained in a whistleblower complaint that have roiled Washington.

    In a statement provided to CNN, a senior White House official said the move to place the transcript in the system came at the direction of National Security Council attorneys.

    This is a pretty clear indication that Trump’s apparatchik’s were very conscious of how he had broken the law.

    Dave (1bb933) — 9/27/2019 @ 11:07 am

    That’s not illegal.

    Furthermore, the conversation discussed more javalins for Ukraine… of course you’d want to make sure that Russia doesn’t get wind of that until it’s too late. Ergo, place the transcripts in the classified system.

    Also this: anyone remember that early in Trump’s administration, phone calls between Trump and Australia (and Germany?) were leaked as well? What’s not clear, is I would bet that after that, it was a normal policy to place all transcripts like this on the classified system, rather than the unclas network. Those phone call stopped being leaked since that.

    That’s not “covering up a crime” there…that’s actually being good stewards there.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  144. @144 Thank you for acknowledging he’s failed to drain the swap. I’m personally fine with Mcabe and Strzk being fired.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  145. Also this: anyone remember that early in Trump’s administration, phone calls between Trump and Australia (and Germany?) were leaked as well? What’s not clear, is I would bet that after that, it was a normal policy to place all transcripts like this on the classified system, rather than the unclas network. Those phone call stopped being leaked since that.

    This is a decent argument. If it’s what they did on all calls I could buy it. If they only did it on calls where he appears to be committing crimes it’s not compelling.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  146. The crime is in the transcript, folks. It’s all in plain sight.

    People love themselves some cover-up, but the explanation of why the calls went to a more secure system is reasonable. Folks forget just how incredibly leaky things were at the beginning of the Trump administration.

    Appalled (7fbd02)

  147. No politician is perfect. None are angels but stop justifying what this President does by claiming everyone does this stuff. They don’t. I am especially disturbed by FoxNews and talk radio’s defense of him.

    Check out Geraldo on Fox this morning…..”So it’s going to be the president of the United States in a conversation that was intercepted by a rotten snitch — I’d love to wap him, but that’s another story.”

    Trump is toxic and guys like Geraldo are downright dangerous when their dear leader is corrupt.

    noel (f22371)

  148. Again (see #70), I’ll ask of those who see Trump’s actions as an unprecedented violation of the public trust:

    What evidence can you offer that this is the first time, or even remotely close to the first time, that a president has done something like this? All we know is that THIS TIME somebody involved decided that Trump crossed a line.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  149. It isn’t the first time, Kevin. I believe it was 1973……

    noel (f22371)

  150. Exactly what Matador said. To fault Trump for “Failing to drain the swamp” is mighty lame. Who in the last 50 years has even tried? If I might quote one of the early swamp creators, another dumb, dumb, dummy of a man with many, many faults yet many, many redeeming qualities as well, TR:

    “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

    PTw (82eebb)

  151. Watergate by proxy. Foreign government assisted corruption. Trump is so clever.

    noel (f22371)

  152. What evidence can you offer that this is the first time, or even remotely close to the first time, that a president has done something like this? All we know is that THIS TIME somebody involved decided that Trump crossed a line.

    You’re right. I can’t prove that Obama didn’t do the exact same thing. I can’t prove that Reagan wasn’t a tool of the Illuminati or that Truman wasn’t secretly a communist, or that Nancy Pelosi isn’t even now secretly a lizard person wearing an old lady costume who uses a body double to fool doctors.

    That’s why we don’t ask people to prove a negative. It’s usually not possible. We have to react to the information we have. When there is evidence of wrongdoing we should react to it.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  153. @152

    1. Teddy wasn’t dumb and you should take that back.

    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly;

    This line doesn’t apply to Trump. As I’ve pointed out in numerous comments he’s not trying to drain the swamp. He’s not taking meaningful steps. At best he’s taken out swamp creatures because they upset him personally. Other than that he’s just complaining about it and making a lot of noise. If he were a reporter, that might be a worthy accomplishment. But he’s President. He’s accountable for the executive branch and in this area he’s failing. I couldn’t care less if other before him have failed also. This is made worse because it was a central part of what he promised to do.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  154. 148 The crime is in the transcript, folks. It’s all in plain sight.

    People love themselves some cover-up, but the explanation of why the calls went to a more secure system is reasonable. Folks forget just how incredibly leaky things were at the beginning of the Trump administration.

    Appalled (7fbd02) — 9/27/2019 @ 11:57 am

    I don’t see the crime…and I don’t think I’m being obtuse here.

    You have to read all of it to get the full context. Yes, some snippets in isolation would seem very bad, but that’s a product of cherry picking the text.

    His “favor” is about the investigation in what was Ukrainian involvement of the US 2016 election, particularly re: cloudstrike.

    The Ukrainian president himself was the one who brought up Guiliani.

    I do think Trump asking the Ukrainina president to investigate Biden for his actions as VP is distasteful simply because Biden is the frontrunner of his likely 2020 opponent… but that’s gutter politics, not something that’s criminal nor surprising either.

    Frankly, if you didn’t think Obama’s hot mic to the Russian PM to “give him space till after the election” was worthy of impeachment, (while not apples to apples, but shares strong correlation) then I don’t see how Trump asking Ukraine to do some investigation into Biden ought to be either. (for the record, I do NOT think Obama’s actions there warranted impeachment as POTUS has wiiiide latitude in how to conduct their foriegn policy, and much of it occurs outside of the public).

    I think this is another Rorschach between Trump critics and others.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  155. @152

    1. Teddy wasn’t dumb and you should take that back.

    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly;

    This line doesn’t apply to Trump. As I’ve pointed out in numerous comments he’s not trying to drain the swamp. He’s not taking meaningful steps. At best he’s taken out swamp creatures because they upset him personally. Other than that he’s just complaining about it and making a lot of noise. If he were a reporter, that might be a worthy accomplishment. But he’s President. He’s accountable for the executive branch and in this area he’s failing. I couldn’t care less if other before him have failed also. This is made worse because it was a central part of what he promised to do.

    Time123 (b4d075) — 9/27/2019 @ 12:27 pm

    The only way someone can drain the swamp is not the President, but Congress.

    One way, is to have all departments (except for the essential depts like DOJ/DOD), be moved outside of DC. Education Dept to Maine, Energy Dept to Texa, EPA to Colorado… ect.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  156. “ Teddy wasn’t dumb and you should take that back.”

    C’mon. You’ve been to college, right? You should know better.

    He’s not trying to drain the swamp, you say? I really don’t think you understand what the swamp is and where it’s real power lies. Name ONE GOPe who has made any greater effort. The swamp has thrown everything it has at him. More so than anyone, including Reagan. Why is the beast so afraid that it is grasping at any straw? He has shaken the foundations of the media, etc. more than anyone. As Matador says, he at the very least deserves credit for exposing all that has been laid bare over the last 3 or 4 years.

    PTw (b66096)

  157. whembly:

    Maybe this will help understanding what the problem with Trump’s Ukraine call is. This is a lefty, but also a diplomatic historian. In otther words, someone who understands why this is something other than just routine hardball diplomacy

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1177586913617858563.html

    Appalled (7fbd02)

  158. @158, I have been to college and I’ve read about Teddy. I’ve even read 2 of his books. They were pretty good, and afaik not ghost written. Maybe the other 45 were terrible?

    Time123 (b4d075)

  159. Furthermore, the conversation discussed more javalins for Ukraine… of course you’d want to make sure that Russia doesn’t get wind of that until it’s too late. Ergo, place the transcripts in the classified system.

    Oh please.

    1) US arms sales to the Ukraine are not secret.
    2) Putin likely knew about the proposed deal before Trump, since Putin reads his briefings.
    3) For deterrent purposes, yes, you would absolutely want Russia to know the Ukraine was better prepared to resist any aggression.

    Dave (964242)

  160. Indonesia a country that killed some 500k chinese nationals, mistly communists they can take care of themselves i reckon and did till soros started playing asian roulette, in 97,

    Narciso (beeb9a)

  161. He’s not trying to drain the swamp, you say? I really don’t think you understand what the swamp is and where it’s real power lies. Name ONE GOPe who has made any greater effort. The swamp has thrown everything it has at him. More so than anyone, including Reagan. Why is the beast so afraid that it is grasping at any straw? He has shaken the foundations of the media, etc. more than anyone. As Matador says, he at the very least deserves credit for exposing all that has been laid bare over the last 3 or 4 years.

    I’m sorry, you’re going to have to show me what he’s done beyond a handful of firings, self-pitying tweets and conspiracy theories. I’m just not seeing it. He hasn’t even done a good job at exposing it. A good job would involve specifics that he hasn’t brought.

    If you want I can list out things he could do today that would have an impact on corruption. Some would be hampered by his personal corruption and lack of credibility, but he could still do them. He won’t. Because as far as I can tell he only cares about draining the swap as a rhetorical trope he can use as a excuse for his supporters.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  162. Well they are rarely acknowledged here, sone garbage from a burnt spy seems to get all the attention, nor was the utter decimation of the caterers merc battalion, they relegated to libya and audab

    Narciso (beeb9a)

  163. PTw, it occurs to me that we might mean different things when we say “the swap”.

    To me, the swamp is government officials, elected and otherwise, that use their positions primarily for the advancement and personal gain of themselves and their associates. I’m OK with perks and some level of back scratching. My objection is that in too many cases it has become both their main focus and causes them to do poorly at their actual job. This has given them wealth and power far beyond what they could get without those connections. It has also made it harder for people who can’t provide those perks to get the support of government they’re entitled to. I think the swamp very much includes bureaucrats whose career is focused on building larger bureaucracy.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  164. Narciso, sometimes your comments make me think you’ve had a stroke. Other times they make me think I’m missing something interesting because I can’t figure out what you’re trying to say. Make of that what you will.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  165. @158 –

    I share your passion, but I think I said Trump’s election resulted in an unforced error by the swamp creatures. Arrogant, enraged and deranged, they could not help themselves, and were exposed when their scheme blew up in their faces.

    This was not proactive swamp-draining by Trump. He has not really been in that “arena”, as you say. He promised that, but only swatted Comey when he felt (rightfully) unjustly threatened.

    There has been no systematic approach toward fulfilling the promise. It is ad-hoc, and that is severely disappointing to say the least.

    To your point “Name ONE GOPe who has made any greater effort.”, None. As Bored Lawyer said in the Hillary thread, no Republican since Reagan has had a spine. That is what forced us to accept Trump.

    Matador (39e0cd)

  166. And by “draining the swamp”…. do we mean lies by the thousands, pushing fake conspiracy theories, obstructing justice and pressuring foreign governments into smearing political opponents? Do I have that right?

    noel (f22371)

  167. Trump is the swamp. Always has been. His dad was the swamp. His lawyer. His other lawyer too.

    His swamp is so deep that he had to move to the 68th floor just to breath. Or is it 58th floor? He made that up too…. adding ten floors to his Tower. Swamper in Chief.

    noel (f22371)

  168. whembly:

    Maybe this will help understanding what the problem with Trump’s Ukraine call is. This is a lefty, but also a diplomatic historian. In otther words, someone who understands why this is something other than just routine hardball diplomacy

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1177586913617858563.html

    Appalled (7fbd02) — 9/27/2019 @ 12:50 pm

    Thank you for that. I still don’t find his interpretation compelling though.

    I’ve read other reports (and tweets) from personnel who’ve actually been part of such process and remarked that this was a policy discussion and intelligence apparatchik inserting themselves in this way was wrong.

    John Ekdahl (@JohnEkdahl)
    9/26/19, 8:06 PM
    I’m sorry, but if there is any truth to this, then there is literally no story. I’m…. not understanding how this isn’t getting more attention.

    See this short thread, he succinctly states that Ukraine didn’t even know that the fundings were delayed till a month later. I think he’s right.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  169. Furthermore, the conversation discussed more javalins for Ukraine… of course you’d want to make sure that Russia doesn’t get wind of that until it’s too late. Ergo, place the transcripts in the classified system.

    Oh please.

    1) US arms sales to the Ukraine are not secret.
    2) Putin likely knew about the proposed deal before Trump, since Putin reads his briefings.
    3) For deterrent purposes, yes, you would absolutely want Russia to know the Ukraine was better prepared to resist any aggression.

    Dave (964242) — 9/27/2019 @ 1:02 pm

    1) it should be until the deal is actually completed.
    2) should I take this seriously or are you being hyperbolic?
    3) of course, but not at a policy discussion phase. You’d let ’em know when it’s delivered.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  170. looking in the mirror, I mention particular things, if you’re going to challenge the shokin affidatit, by all means, but don’t compare it with say a prosecutor who is ignoring his country’s own actions in the case of lutsenko, Obama talked a good game, it had nothing to do with reality, policies were dissolved premiums were hiked, allies were thrown under the bus, because they didn’t meet the swiss standard of polity, (the swiss aren’t that popular anymore either, neither is hungary are Poland) hundreds of millions were awarded to iran, in retrospect that was ill advised, were there any whistleblowers, then, not on your life, and the echo chamber that ben Rhodes set up made challenging it very difficult, only lee smith, mike doran, Lawrence Solomon lone among reporters pointed this out,

    narciso (d1f714)

  171. #168 And by “draining the swamp”…. do we mean lies by the thousands, pushing fake conspiracy theories, obstructing justice and pressuring foreign governments into smearing political opponents? Do I have that right?

    noel (f22371) — 9/27/2019 @ 1:45 pm

    But, enough about the democrats and the media.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  172. Do I have that right?

    noel (f22371) — 9/27/2019 @ 1:45 pm

    the career scum that fill the halls of the Federal government. Scum that cannot be voted out, only exposed and one day, hopefully, rooted out.

    This is the swamp as I view and understand it. Trump can be voted out. Private citizens who leverage the swamp could easily be denied by the swamp, except it’s the swamp. The swamp is the pusher. Trump, his daddy and the like just are just the junkies shooting what the swamp is selling.

    So… No.

    Matador (39e0cd)

  173. Wow.
    https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/27/intel-community-secretly-gutted-requirement-of-first-hand-whistleblower-knowledge/

    I’m convinced that all of this was all contrived by anti-Trump forces.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  174. noel,

    Click on that link from whembly. Swamp, swamp, swamp swamp music.

    Hall fillin’ scum, the lot of them.

    Matador (39e0cd)

  175. Oh yea. Then there is the “deep state”. Lately, that has included pretty much everybody Trump has hired. Then fired. Then trashed.

    Everybody but Donald.

    noel (f22371)

  176. 150 years in the making. The swamp is vast and deep, indeed.

    Matador (39e0cd)

  177. whembly (fd57f6) — 9/27/2019 @ 2:12 pm

    Great link. Someone’s got some ‘splanin to do.

    The media will be all over this like duct tape over the mouth.

    Munroe (53beca)

  178. I’m convinced that all of this was all contrived by anti-Trump forces.

    The ICIG put in place by Trump would have to be in on the conspiracy too. He was authorized to determine whether or not the whistleblower complaint was credible and serious enough to be forwarded to the congressional intel. committees. He thought it was.

    It’s weird how people handpicked by Donald Trump to be part of his administration somehow become part of those nefarious “anti-Trump forces” after getting a close look at how he operates.

    Radegunda (36778b)

  179. covering with a pillow, along with cofer black’s board seat on burisma, what Atkinson’s previous posting was,

    narciso (d1f714)

  180. meanwhile more judges that don’t know the law, still are given a hearing,

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/judge-blocks-effort-to-indefinitely-detain-migrant-families/ar-AAHWDx0?ocid=spartandhp

    narciso (d1f714)

  181. If Trumps call timing stinks then so does this news from the Federalist:

    The internal properties of the newly revised “Disclosure of Urgent Concern” form, which the intelligence community inspector general (ICIG) requires to be submitted under the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act (ICWPA), show that the document was uploaded on September 24, 2019, at 4:25 p.m., just days before the anti-Trump complaint was declassified and released to the public. The markings on the document state that it was revised in August 2019, but no specific date of revision is disclosed.

    The complaint alleges that President Donald Trump broke the law during a phone call with the Ukrainian president. In his complaint, which was dated August 12, 2019, the complainant acknowledged he was “not a direct witness” to the wrongdoing he claims Trump committed.

    A previous version of the whistleblower complaint document, which the ICIG and DNI until recently provided to potential whistleblowers, declared that any complaint must contain only first-hand knowledge of alleged wrongdoing and that complaints that provide only hearsay, rumor, or gossip would be rejected.

    steveg (354706)

  182. #183 Yes. Somebody changed the “Whistle-Blower Form” used by DNI to No longer require First=hand knowledge of any fraud, waste, or wrong-doing. I was shocked the form doesn’t even require you name the people who told you this 2nd gossip. I wonder if the current head of the DNI IG approved it? He should was raring to approval this fake complaint and go to Congress about it.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  183. The Federalist article shows things were wrong in the Complaint and is constructed so that its impossible to pin down exactly WHO told the Whistleblower what. Its all “Hey, some guy told me”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  184. Liberal MSM, the Democrats, and the Bulwark boys lied and mislead for 2 years over Mueller-Russian and now they’re doing the same thing over this Ukraine nonsense. Its Deja vu all over again. Only this time, people know its nonsense and the MSM have zero credibility. If the D’s want to impeach, let them impeach. They’re not doing anything for the country anyhow. Same with the Senate. All they’re doing is voting for 1,000 page budget bills with their eye’s closed, and confirming judges.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  185. ‘cry havoc, let loose the poodles of war’

    narciso (d1f714)

  186. The Federalist article shows things were wrong in the Complaint and is constructed so that its impossible to pin down exactly WHO told the Whistleblower what. Its all “Hey, some guy told me”.

    Donald J Trump and the White House, plus Ruditooti, have confirmed the accusation, so the complaint is unimportant. Trump has stipulated that it’s true, he just doesn’t think he did anything wrong.

    So you’re arguing the wrong point, the message is the message, not the messenger.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  187. Narciso, sometimes your comments make me think you’ve had a stroke. Other times they make me think I’m missing something interesting because I can’t figure out what you’re trying to say. Make of that what you will.

    Time123 (c9382b) — 9/27/2019 @ 1:14 pm

    I suspect he’s not entering text the way we are. Some kind of voice or perhaps a more unusual arrangement. He’s clearly very intelligent, but sometimes you have to interpret his comments as though a few words are soundalikes. He’s at least not a troll or a bore or anything like that, though I usually do not agree with him.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  188. the abuse of the whistleblower system, the compass aid ambulance chasing service, any number of irregularities,

    narciso (d1f714)

  189. Trump butt gerbils with badges violated Stormy’s civil rights as a favor to Trump. The taxpayers of Columbus, Ohio will pay her $450,000. https://www.foxnews.com/us/stormy-daniels-strip-club-arrest-columbus

    Winning!

    nk (9651fb)

  190. yes, cbs spent a lot of research time on daniels, maybe it was a moonves priority,

    https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/curtis-houck/2019/09/27/watch-cnn-host-uncomfortably-listens-reporter-outlining-hunter

    narciso (d1f714)

  191. Deep State must run really, really, really, really, really, deep, if they can re-write ICIG regulations and issue new forms overnight to accommodate one whistleblower who has a hearsay-based complaint against Trump.

    The proles are our only hope, comrades.

    nk (9651fb)

  192. #180

    I’m convinced that all of this was all contrived by anti-Trump forces.

    The ICIG put in place by Trump would have to be in on the conspiracy too. He was authorized to determine whether or not the whistleblower complaint was credible and serious enough to be forwarded to the congressional intel. committees. He thought it was.

    It’s weird how people handpicked by Donald Trump to be part of his administration somehow become part of those nefarious “anti-Trump forces” after getting a close look at how he operates.

    Radegunda (36778b) — 9/27/2019 @ 2:48 pm

    Did the ICIG update the whistle blower application?

    We don’t know… but I would guess that, no… the ICIG wouldn’t be the one to make such significant change. It had to be some leadership in the CIA to authorize this.

    The simplest answer here, is that the ICIG conformed to the rules and regulation in handling this request. That’s all. Just because it deemed it credible doesn’t mean that it’s stone cold fact.

    At this point, we need answers as to why the application process was updated to allow 2nd-hand information.

    The timing is awfully convenient here…

    whembly (4605df)

  193. obviously this was the first iteration, like the steele dossier, followed by the jones-shearer one,

    narciso (d1f714)

  194. “Donald J Trump and the White House, plus Ruditooti, have confirmed the accusation, so the complaint is unimportant.”
    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 9/27/2019 @ 3:24 pm

    The complaint, having prompted the confirmation and release of the transcript, is entirely relevant.

    Without that, it would simply be supposed wrongdoings by a president that we would never hear about. But, we know there’s no such thing as that in presidential history, right? This is the first instance ever, and oh so luckily it got exposed.

    Munroe (53beca)

  195. #188

    The Federalist article shows things were wrong in the Complaint and is constructed so that its impossible to pin down exactly WHO told the Whistleblower what. Its all “Hey, some guy told me”.

    Donald J Trump and the White House, plus Ruditooti, have confirmed the accusation, so the complaint is unimportant. Trump has stipulated that it’s true, he just doesn’t think he did anything wrong.

    So you’re arguing the wrong point, the message is the message, not the messenger.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 9/27/2019 @ 3:24 pm

    No. It *is* the messenger at this point.

    You’re being dishonest here in stating that Trump and ‘Ruditooti’ confirmed the accusation. There were no quid pro quo (which was the accusation), since Ukrainian officials had no idea that the fundings was delayed until a month later. So, quid pro quo is literally impossible.

    Is your beef is the fact that Trump mentioned Biden in the context of Ukrainian President to investigate Biden actually demanding the prosecutor to be fired or the Ukraine government won’t get the billion dollars?

    whembly (4605df)

  196. Tom Homan/2024

    mg (8cbc69)

  197. @178, what happened in 1869 that started the swamp? You pinning it all on President Grant?

    Time123 (d54166)

  198. I think it goes deeper than Deep State. I think it’s a worldwide conspiracy by the Soros-Rothschild Combine to derail Trump’s Nobel prize for Astrophysics.

    Like I implied above, I find it incredible that the federal bureaucracy on its own could move that fast and that efficiently to alter the federal regulation and form.

    nk (9651fb)

  199. Something smells … again.

    Unfortunately, I think our traditional tool to root out the truth is the one being utilized to obscure it.

    Colliente (05736f)

  200. Breaking: The Russians hacked into the system and changed the form to make it look like a Deep State inside job, so as to help Putin’s Orange Man friend.

    Munroe (53beca)

  201. @202 Bets on whether or not it was actually intended as a “check” on the next Dem president and not meant to be used for Trump at all? We’re 3 yrs in and Trump is not very popular, so it’s time to institutionalize some ways to get the next guy before people start paying attention. Then, surprise, it gets used against them.

    Nic (896fdf)

  202. 206. Trump is in a whole heap of trouble. He could always depend on the courts to save his bacon when he was a businessman, but impeachment isn’t a legal issue; it’s a political one. And this is new territory for the Donald.

    Gryph (08c844)

  203. “Bets on whether or not it was actually intended as a “check” on the next Dem president and not meant to be used for Trump at all?”
    Nic (896fdf) — 9/27/2019 @ 5:19 pm

    Yeah. Kind of like ripping the W buttons off keyboards, which of course you’d do in the third year not the fourth. *eye roll*

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-jun-12-na-clinton12-story.html

    Munroe (53beca)

  204. #206, yeah poor dumb Trump. If only he was smart he’d be rich and POTUS.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  205. It takes literally 2 seconds to pop a key off the keyboard that you were using up to a moment ago and you can do it with a paperclip which you have currently at your desk. I do it all the time. (It takes even less time to pop one back on.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  206. The walls are closing in. We got Orange Man now. First, collusion and obstruction of whatever, and now pointing out that Biden son’s did some shady things in Ukraine. He’s finished!

    rcocean (1a839e)

  207. #204 yep. Its now clear the whole thing was another set up. We just need to know who the whistleblower democratic operative is, who talked to him, and who helped write his complaint. 100-1 we find out he was working with Pencil Neck or Nadler back in July and some D lawyer (maybe lawfare) helped write the complaint.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  208. Isn’t it amazing that neither the D or C Congressman/Senators want to do a damn thing for the Country? They’re all just sitting on their hands waiting till November 2020. Evidently, the USA is absolutely perfect and no legislation or reform of any kind is needed. So, let the Impeachment follies begin!

    rcocean (1a839e)

  209. #188 – you obviously haven’t the latest DNC talking points which are the complaint covers more than Trump asking Ukraine to looking into Biden Junior’s corruption and why Daddy Biden was BRAGGING about stopping an investigation into his son’s corruption.

    According, to the new DNC talking points that just one of many problems. So, yes is it important that we track down the lying fake whistle-blower and his Democrat handlers.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  210. The idea that we’re going to impeach a president based on a complaint, the sources for which will remain totally anonymous, is an indication of just how demented things have become. Yeah, that’s how it gonna work. Is there a problem? Lord.

    Munroe (53beca)

  211. BTW, the NEW THIS JUST IN – Democrat talking point is that Trump has restricted access to his talks with other foreign leaders, including…SAUDI ARABIA and….wait for it….Putin. OMG!

    Gee, that’s so horrible. Why wouldn’t Trump want his enemies to get hold of his confidential talks with foreign leaders and illegally leak them to the Trump-hating MSM and Democrats? The only answer has to be white supremacy. Seriously, given the lack of ethics in the intelligence community (Remember when transcripts of Trumps’ calls in Jan 2017 to Australia and UK were leaked almost immediately?) – I would restrict access of Trump conversations with foreign leaders to the maximum extent possible. Perhaps even putting the whole thing on Disc in a safe and only letting those with a “need to know” look at it.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  212. Man RC, how but hurt are you over this?

    Time123 (d54166)

  213. I’m convinced that all of this was all contrived by anti-Trump forces.

    Namely Donald J Trump and Rudytooti.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  214. Democrat talking point is that Trump has restricted access to his talks with other foreign leaders, including…SAUDI ARABIA and….wait for it….Putin. OMG!

    Oh no, say it ain’t so. Cheeto jeezus breakin’ the law with other countries too, er, some of the same countries again, and maybe some new ones.

    The better question is what countries didn’t make the list of ones he wanted to scam into helping win re-election? Probably just the esshole’s

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  215. The idea that we’re going to impeach a president based on a complaint, the sources for which will remain totally anonymous,

    Will they? The sources? Remain anonymous? Who told you that?

    nk (9651fb)

  216. Will they? The sources? Remain anonymous? Who told you that?

    I mean it’s not like Chester will go on national TeeVee or the tweeters and plainly state the wrongdoing. No way Rudytooti would have email and text evidence and actually share it, also on the TeeVee…well…um…again, I mean.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  217. At least Rudolph decided that getting paid to go to a Kremlin-backed conference in Armenia with Putin is a bad look. After having been outed…today…in 2019…

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  218. the sources for which will remain totally anonymous

    That’s pretty standard practice when gangsters are put on trial, isn’t it?

    Dave (820a58)

  219. Are they even allowed to get their testimony in executive session in the House if it involves impeachment? I’m pretty sure Roberts won’t allow it in the Senate trial. In fact, I’m definitely sure.

    nk (9651fb)

  220. That’s pretty standard practice when gangsters are put on trial, isn’t it?

    No, it’s not.

    nk (9651fb)

  221. No, it’s not.

    You’re no fun.

    Dave (820a58)

  222. “Will they? The sources? Remain anonymous? Who told you that?”
    nk (9651fb) — 9/27/2019 @ 6:28 pm

    Revealing their identities will be a grave injustice, or didn’t you hear? Because we impeach presidents anonymously, and everyone will shrug it off.

    Munroe (53beca)

  223. History may rhyme, but more like the end of March, 1968. Get ready for The Nation’s Apprentice on OANN or the 2020 home of the Chicago Cubs, the Ricketts joint aka Marquee Sports Network.

    urbanleftbehind (9f0396)

  224. The whistle-blower is like a tipster who tells police about a burglary in progress. When the cops show up and catch the criminals red-handed, it doesn’t prejudice their rights in the least if the identity the good citizen who helped bring them to justice remains confidential.

    Whether the tipster hates them, loves them or doesn’t know them from Adam makes no difference either.

    There is every reason to keep the tipster’s identity secret in this case, since Trump is known to have attempted witness intimidation and tampering in the recent past, and is certain to do so again, if given the opportunity.

    Dave (1bb933)

  225. @200

    I was ballparking. Lincoln.

    The swamp, (deep state, if you will) was the inevitable bastard born of Lincoln’s war; the singular, omnipotent, unchallengeable, behemoth. The cesspool that is our central Federal government.

    Matador (39e0cd)

  226. In other news that everyone already knew…even if it wasn’t spelled out.

    President Trump told two senior Russian officials in a 2017 Oval Office meeting that he was unconcerned about Moscow’s interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election because the United States did the same in other countries, an assertion that prompted alarmed White House officials to limit access to the remarks to an unusually small number of people, according to three former officials with knowledge of the matter.

    The comments, which have not been previously reported, were part of a now-infamous meeting with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, in which Trump revealed highly classified information that exposed a source of intelligence on the Islamic State. He also said during the meeting that firing FBI Director James B. Comey the previous day had relieved “great pressure” on him.

    A memorandum summarizing the meeting was limited to all but a few officials with the highest security clearances in an attempt to keep the president’s comments from being disclosed publicly, according to the former officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  227. WOW Pat seems to have a knack for stepping on his you-know-what on Twitter:

    Patterico

    It’s so weird. I used to admire Sean Davis. Was he always a hack, or did he change? I think he changed. Just like the rest of them.

    GREAT HARD-HITTING, TIMELY, ORIGINAL CONTENT THERE, CAPTAIN! WHAT HAS SEAN M. DAVIS EVER DONE THAT WAS EVER NEWSWORTHY EXCEPT…

    Sean Davis

    BREAKING: The intelligence community secretly eliminated a requirement that whistleblower complaints contain only direct, first-hand knowledge of wrongdoing allegations.

    A new version of the complaint form allowing hearsay was secretly revised last month.

    I MEAN OTHER THAN CATCHING THE CIA REWRITING THEIR OWN RULES ON THE FLY TO SUPPORT A COUP ATTEMPT…

    “Sean Davis

    I talked to a DNI official and asked when these revisions were made and why. The official said the intelligence community would not comment on anything to do with the anti-Trump whistleblower.

    I never mentioned or asked about the anti-Trump whistleblower.”

    I MEAN OTHER THAN CATCHING THEM IN AN ADMISSION AGAINST INTEREST!

    But seriously, to Pat and every NeverTrumper in this thread, there’s a reason the blog has suddenly shifted to guest posters lamely attacking Democrats instead of keeping up with this issue.

    Never Tweet, never post, never say a word in the future without running it by a reputable conservative troll first. And Ken White doesn’t count. You’re failing so badly now at ‘criticism’ and getting so badly and immediately refuted by real life before the trolls even have a chance to do a drive-by mocking that divine punishment is the only logical explanation.

    The minimum acceptable public position on the fake “whistleblower” issue and the intelligence community in general is now this:

    “Jesse Kelly

    “Trump should be nicer to the IC community!”

    I’d be publicly urinating on the ruins of what used to be the Hoover building by now if I was president. Be glad you have a man who’s so restrained.”

    Barrel Shooter (69150e)

  228. Col K, it doesn’t really matter, because the source is anonymous so it doesn’t count or, if it ends up not anonymous, even a life long Republican must now be part of a liberal conspiracy. And it isn’t a crime and if it is a crime it isn’t a crime because he’s the President and besides someone somewhere must have done it before and gotten away with it so it isn’t a crime or if we don’t know that anyone else did it, we can’t prove that no one didn’t do it before and got away with it so it must not be a crime.

    Nic (896fdf)

  229. COREY FAN PAIN DRAIN ALL CAPS LOCK GUY

    Repeat some lies, say some other new lies, reconnect the VPN, pick a new screen name.

    Rinse and Repeat.

    Also, do you know what quotation marks are for? A series of open quotation marks don’t mean anything. Are any of the lies your lies, or are you supposed to be just posting other random lies to show us the lies? Please, review the rules for punctuation, inquiring minds want to know.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  230. Is it the Deep State that ran the fake University? Did they refuse to release their taxes after promising to do so? Do they invent ridiculous conspiracy theories? Obstruct justice ten or so times? Collude with foreigners?

    No. The “Deep State” is just an imaginary bogeyman. And, as we all know, distraction is a whole lot easier than justifying the very real acts of an unethical President.

    Richard Nixon had his bogeyman too. All the crooked guys do.

    noel (f22371)

  231. What Trump fears is not the Deep State. He is trembling now because of his own Deep Throat.

    noel (f22371)

  232. It wasn’t Trumps deep throat. A good argument can be made that someone within the CIA (deep state) planted a mole, (Hearsay guy) in the WH and also got the whistleblower rules changed so they could weave conjecture, hearsay, speculation around a more or less factual, albeit second hand rendering of a phone call into the record to smear the President.

    Two of the main “problems” in the call were brought up by the Ukrainian. The Ukrainians didn’t know money had been withheld and Trump never mentions money. Trump does say the EU should do more and singles out Merkel, but the talk is about support, not specifically cash. The Ukrainians do want more Javelin missiles.
    We don’t have facts yet to complete the “fact pattern” on the Barr, Guiliani Biden issue.
    Right now the explanation is that the President and Executive Branch DOJ has the duty to pursue corruption wherever it leads. Guiliani is a private attorney, but Ukrainians approached Giuliani first after the US Attorney NY ignored them, so you could argue he was brought into this by the information given to him. By the standards of today it looks like Rudy is entitled to whistleblower protection

    steveg (354706)

  233. It wasnt, the times and the journal, cleverly only consulted outgoing officials. Now the case had been reopened by special court the previous month

    Narciso (beeb9a)


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