Patterico's Pontifications

8/6/2019

Democratic Congressman Pulls Dangerous Stunt Outing San Antonians Who Fund Trump (UPDATE: Castro Confronted By Trump Campaign)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 2:55 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Yet again, it’s different when Democrats target private citizens:

Untitled

Sad to see so many San Antonians as 2019 maximum donors to Donald Trump — the owner of ⁦@BillMillerBarBQ⁩, owner of the ⁦@HistoricPearl, realtor Phyllis Browning, etc⁩.

Their contributions are fueling a campaign of hate that labels Hispanic immigrants as ‘invaders.’

The tweet is followed by a list of retirees, and the names of their businesses, who have contributed the maximum amount to the Trump campaign. I’m not going to publish the list here. These are private citizens, not political opponent(s). Yet now, a sitting member of the House of Representatives has made their names public, thereby putting them at risk of harassment, or worse. His campaign has literally invited trouble upon them. How can this be acceptable to anyone from either side of the aisle? While donor information is public – one can do the research themselves and find the names – the fact that an elected official is responsible, is reprehensible. And it’s just really staggering that this is happening only a few days after a horrific mass shooting left 22 people dead in Castro’s home state of Texas. How incredibly tone-deaf, cynical and vicious does one have to be to make the decision to go with this? There is absolutely no excuse. What a disgrace Joaquin Castro is. He brings shame to himself, his party, and his district (especially if some of the individuals live in his district). We can only hope that no harm comes to anyone on the list.

Interestingly, Joaquin Castro retweeted these remarks from his brother, Julian, made after the El Paso massacre:

“That is no accident. That is due in part to the climate this president has set, of division, of otherness.”

Good to know no one else but Trump can add fuel to the ugly fires of division and otherness. No accidents, indeed.

P.S. So far, not a peep from Big Media about this. But, hey, you know…

Untitled

UPDATE: Joaquin Castro was confronted on Twitter by the Trump re-election campaign’s director of comms, Tim Murtaugh, who said:

At the very least @Castro4Congress is inviting harassment of these private citizens. At worst, he’s encouraging violence.

Will media concerned about “rhetoric” care about this?

He’s listing people and their employers.

This is a target list.

Castro attempted to justify his targeting of private citizens:

First, the Indivisble@group’s graphic I shared doesn’t have private or personal info — no addresses or phone #, etc. It’s publicly reported info printed in newspapers routinely from the @nyt to the @dcexaminer. You know that. 1/

2nd, what I said is true — your campaign has stoked fear of brown-skinned immigrants. Those contributions hv been used to pay for over 2K @Facebook ads declaring an invasion by Hispanics.

That is truly dangerous for millions.
Will you commit not to run another ad like that? 2/2

It’s not only a target list, it’s a direct shot across the bow to warn Trump donors. Ths is an elected official brazenly intimidating private citizens.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

144 Responses to “Democratic Congressman Pulls Dangerous Stunt Outing San Antonians Who Fund Trump (UPDATE: Castro Confronted By Trump Campaign)”

  1. My guess is that DCSCA will find Rep. Castro’s remarks neither sad nor embarrassing…much less outrageous and shameful.

    What a wonderfully interesting time it is to be alive!

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  2. I’m not a Trump supporter, but this is a foul thing to do to people. And sadly, after reading a whole lot of individuals commenting on this, many people think that everyone who donates to Trump should be exposed. That way, they say, they can just find out if they own a business or where they work, and boycott it. As if that’s all that would happen. It’s all so ugly.

    Dana (fdf131)

  3. A less than cunning stunt by a stunning ****.

    Colonel Haiku (c49ed8)

  4. If it was Beeto or Buttplug that did it, maybe…i find DCSCA to be as much of anti-Hispanic as others who are accused of being more bellicose in that regard, so no attaboy.

    urbanleftbehind (24ebe3)

  5. the left means buiness no more thoughts and prayers b.s.

    lany (b848c8)

  6. “A Liz Warren supporter goes on a killing spree, and the next day Castro thinks this is appropriate?”

    Colonel Haiku (c49ed8)

  7. It’s Beta not Beeto, ulb… get it right!

    Colonel Haiku (c49ed8)

  8. He’s gonna be real sad to see most of those same people donating to his opponent if/when he runs for reelection

    Stacy0311 (3d63e6)

  9. Yeah, but isn’t it the brown equivalent of Hank Johnson v. Cynthia McKinney most years?

    urbanleftbehind (24ebe3)

  10. Pigs will be pigs.

    nk (dbc370)

  11. Friendly warning guys, though I hate to play comment police: Let’s not make this comments section into a discussion of another commenter here.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  12. After a half-hour to think, I would like to apologize for my opening comment. It was a little vicious, and very mean-spirited.

    Although DCSCA is 100% on the wrong side of this issue, he didn’t do or say anything to merit that snark.

    Sorry, DCSCA.

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  13. And now I wish I had repented a little faster.

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  14. the left means buiness. . .

    The next time the left means business will be the first time the left means business. You do mean that the left means collective action taken on behalf of the state which purports to operate to the benefit of working classes and people of color, right? Isn’t that more accurate where this old cliché comes into play?

    JVW (54fd0b)

  15. And now I wish I had repented a little faster.

    What matters is that your heart is in the right place.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  16. This reminds of when activists released the names of prominent Prop 8 supporters in to order publicly embarrass them and damage their businesses. Not illegal, but creepy as hell.

    Paul Montagu (35419a)

  17. well, not like when he made light of hurricane Harvey victims, it’s funny what is deemed acceptable and what isn’t,

    narciso (d1f714)

  18. WOW…so bad. Inciting violence.

    Of course they learned about radicalism at the knee of their mother, a La Raza activist. Of course all the pics of her in full regalia have disappeared.

    Patricia (3363ec)

  19. It’s not only inciting violence and inviting a whole lot of trouble, it is *intentionally* sending a warning shot across the bow of Trump donors in an effort to stifle political activity he doesn’t approve of. Shame on Castro.

    Dana (fdf131)

  20. Anyone who hasn’t seen this coming is myopic.

    This is how they roll and it’s getting worse. The media aiding and abetting them is doubly effective because they’ve destroyed the educatuon system that used to teach Americans to think for themselves.

    harkin (58d012)

  21. And if they can terrorize people from supporting who they like in elections, they’ll take TX and a lot of other states.

    That’s what this is all about, not gonna let the people and the constitution stand in the way again.

    harkin (58d012)

  22. Trump didn’t start this. He said things to get elected. It was going on for 40 years on talk radio. Did he never hear of Bob Grant?

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  23. Aren’t campaign contributions above a certain amount public record?

    Nic (896fdf)

  24. I’ve updated the post:

    Joaquin Castro was confronted on Twitter by the Trump re-election campaign’s director of comms, Tim Murtaugh, who said:

    At the very least @Castro4Congress is inviting harassment of these private citizens. At worst, he’s encouraging violence.

    Will media concerned about “rhetoric” care about this?

    He’s listing people and their employers.

    This is a target list.

    Castro attempted to justify his targeting of private citizens:

    First, the Indivisble@group’s graphic I shared doesn’t have private or personal info — no addresses or phone #, etc. It’s publicly reported info printed in newspapers routinely from the @nyt to the @dcexaminer. You know that. 1/

    2nd, what I said is true — your campaign has stoked fear of brown-skinned immigrants. Those contributions hv been used to pay for over 2K @Facebook ads declaring an invasion by Hispanics.

    That is truly dangerous for millions.
    Will you commit not to run another ad like that? 2/2

    It’s not only a target list, it’s a direct shot across the bow to warn Trump donors. This is an elected official brazenly intimidating private citizens.

    Dana (fdf131)

  25. Campaign contributions are public record. Anybody can find out who donated what to whom. And yes, these are Trump supporters who have maxed out their donations. *But* we are talking about an elected official intentionally finding out the information and then making it public in order to win an election, as well as to intimidate other Trump donors.

    Dana (fdf131)

  26. @11. Meh. thanks for the cover but it’s no bother.

    What’s to apologize for, kids?

    BTW, Dana, the donations to Trump- or any other candidate- are a matter of public record so that ‘private citizen’ bunk is just that– bunk. Money is speech, as our lovely and talented SCOTUS has decreed, and spotlighting that ‘speech’ is back at ’em free speech— and totally fair game. So a member of Congress highlights the public record; outing the Koch Bros., or any other ‘donor’ for their “support” of whatever. It’s a fair tactic for the parties. Besides, what are those ‘donor’ afraid of? What’s to fear? Aren’t they proud of backing our Captain, who is obviously has Castro has characterized? Money talks; supporting him with bucks but perhaps, no yard signs because, you know– blow back, eh?

    So your ‘”they” can look it up themselves’ is a pretty lame. Like there were no Nazis in Germany… well, maybe — but you can look them up yourself. Sheesh.

    Lindbergh was a helluva pilot but when he dabbled in ‘America First’ politics and his Nazi sympathies seemed apparent, along with his belief in eugenics–[which was further substantiated by his secret families and the offspring he fathered in Germany]– he was fair game.

    And, of course my backing of Trump was and remains quite strategic; neutering the modern conservative has been amazingly successful- the swiftly collapsing like the house of it was. Magnificent.

    Chill the whine; politics ain’t bean bag. And as ol’Give’em Hell Harry said, if them-there donors can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. OTOH, guess my 1944 aircraft observation manual signed by Charles A. Lindbergh makes me a Nazi sympathizer. Better burn that book PDQ!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  27. @26. So what????? It’s totally fair game; Gingrich would have done it in a heartbeat.
    How can you intimidate a Trump supporter if they’re willing to go on the public record and send a billionaire money?!?!?

    That alone is simply hilarious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. @26 so anyone else could do the same in the opposite direction if they wanted, then.

    Nic (896fdf)

  29. @15. Yes, unringing a bell always works. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  30. “Aren’t campaign contributions above a certain amount public record?”

    People who are followed by large numbers of violent people who fit the profile of the Dayton shooter and have a history of pulic terroristic extortion and harrassment (DSA replyguys, Berniebros, abusive lesbian feminists, antifa organizers) are expected to behave better.

    The function of perennial losers like Castro is to be an ethnic lightning rod for all the crazies during the primary so that the ‘moderate’ candidate can win, and riling them up is precisly the opposite of the right strategy.

    But then again, now that Joe Scarborough has publicly endorsed it as a strategy, maybe he’s the loss leader for it:

    “Joe Scarborough

    Verified account

    @JoeNBC
    31m31 minutes ago
    More
    Any business that donates to Trump is complicit and endorses the white supremacy he espoused in Charlottesville, with his “send her back” chants, and by laughing at shouts that Hispanic immigrants should be shot. Donors’ names are on FEC reports. They are newsworthy.”

    ‘Enemy of the people’ is far too kind a word. They will abuse their fully automated assault speech platforms with impunity and must be regulated via common-sense speech control.

    Tom Cotton Mather (1bb1de)

  31. @29.Ta-daaaaaaaaaaaa!

    Ah, you’re learning.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  32. ^27. ‘house of cards it was.’ Typo. Sorry.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  33. Wow! Why not just turn the list over to AntiFa and CPUSA? Or did he get the list from THEM?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  34. Wow! Why not just turn the list over to AntiFa and CPUSA? Or did he get the list from THEM?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  35. Well, MR. Castro has stated he’s for open borders or bust. I’m not even sure he’s an American – in the strict, older sense of the word. Everyone who opposes Castro in this support of open borders is the ENEMY and must be DESTROYED.

    What do the other D’s say? Do they agree? I assume either agreement. Or silence.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  36. Has anyone seen Joe Scarborough on TV and not thought he was INSANE. I’m beginning to think someone has the goods on him. Maybe over that missing intern?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  37. @11. Meh. thanks for the cover but it’s no bother.

    That wasn’t done for your benefit so much as it was to respect the rules that our host laid out some months ago.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  38. Wow, yourself. Are you afraid to wear your MAGA hat?!?!

    Are you fearful of being outed for being duped?

    Ein volk, ein Amerika, ein Trump!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  39. Has anyone seen Joe Scarborough on TV and not thought he was INSANE. I’m beginning to think someone has the goods on him.

    Keep in mind that he’s a former Congressman. I am more and more convinced that only the most narcissistic and needy people run for Congress, so in their own way I think that almost all of them are insane.

    And he’s from Florida. (I kid, I kid.)

    JVW (54fd0b)

  40. @38. Well, that’s in character.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  41. @40. Keep in mind Scarborough is a former conservative Republican Congressman.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  42. “And he’s from Florida. (I kid, I kid.)”

    Yep. The state seems to have taken over California role as the “Nut State”. Or as Archie Bunker might as said: They tipped the USA on its side and all the nuts rolled down into Florida.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  43. “conservative Republican Congressman”

    Like George Will and Bill Kristol its seems to have been an act.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  44. Well, that’s in character.

    Grace meets grace.

    Keep in mind Scarborough is a former conservative Republican Congressman.

    Yep. Those days he said whatever he thought Newt wants to hear; now he says whatever he thinks the MSNBC crowd wants to hear. In his own way, he’s awfully consistent.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  45. @25. So what Reich Minister Murtaugh is confirming is support for his boss, Herr Trump, can instigate violence. Thanks, Timmy.

    It’s not a ‘target list’– unless YOU make it one. Get over yourself. This is pure Gingrich.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  46. @25. Actually, he was part of the revolt against Newtie.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  47. @44. More like too much time in the echo chamber.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  48. From what I’ve seen, a lot of the true believers who go to congress quickly become disenchanted with the political process and disenchanted by the people who loudly perform their “belief”. Often this means that they change some, especially when they realize that their side is just a full of fakers as the other side.

    Nic (896fdf)

  49. @45. Postscript, actually, a few years ago when peddling one of his books, Joe dashed across 6th Avenue to Fox studios for a pitch and called it ‘the mother ship’- which wasn’t what MSNBC viewers- or especially MSNBC management wanted to hear, JVW.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  50. Keep in mind Scarborough is a former conservative Republican Congressman.

    And he represented the panhandle, where you can get away with that stuff.

    Paul Montagu (35419a)

  51. @51. ROFLMAO And that comes ‘right from the top’– so we’ve seen and heard.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  52. Arrest him for terrorist threats. Let him claim his immunity to get out of it.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  53. Let’s fix this for Congressman Castro and keep the rabid, on-the-outs-conservatives happy:

    Joaquin Castro outs list of San Antonians for Trump dumb enough to send a billionaire money.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  54. This is one of the reasons why campaign donations should NOT be public records. This goes double for donations to ballot issues — while politicians might favor previous donors, ballot issues cannot be corrupted by donations.

    In CA’s Prop 8 campaign, a number of people were driven from their jobs by disclosure of donations for Prop 8, and pressure against their employers. And it wasn’t all rich people like Brendan Eich, there were waitresses and other “little people” who were outed and driven from their jobs.

    At the very least, it should be tortuous to use such information to intimidate, extort or otherwise interfere with a person’s private life, with automatic punitive damages on top of economic damages and court costs.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  55. Here I thought that SCSCA would say something dumb, but he exceeds expectations and says something dumb and asinine.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  56. @56. Winning!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  57. Mr. Castro’s donors had better be concerned.
    Trump and his most loyal followers have a proven vindictive streak, and I don’t see them being above politically weaponizing Castro’s biggest donors in retaliation. What goes around and all that. Like I said above, it’s legal but beyond creepy, so I hope some sort of detente happens. If not, then this could get real ugly.

    Paul Montagu (35419a)

  58. “Here I thought that SCSCA would say something dumb, but he exceeds expectations and says something dumb and asinine.”

    He was always a slanderous Communist, and now that he thinks he has the political and media cover to get away with it, he’s moved on to being openly murderous one, just like every other petty bourgeoise in Russia, China, Vietnam, and Cuba who wanted to get rich but didn’t want to work independently for it when they saw easier money in throwing peasants at the ‘upper classes.’

    Which was always the difference between the El Paso and Dayton shooters-the ‘right winger’ was already a messed up individual who you could have seen snapping even without the ideology, while the ‘left winger’ was to all appearances just an everyday schlub acting online like every other violent liberal trust-fund kid you’ve seen calling for ‘punching Nazis’ in Trump’s replies.

    They have never had any shame about it, they simply consider their casual murderousness to be normal and praiseworthy. Govern yourselves accordingly when dealing with them, as I would hate to see the violence they normalized these past three years not come back on them tenfold.

    Tom Cotton Mather (1bb1de)

  59. @58. Indeed; acting Reich Minister Mulvaney, Minister of Propaganda Miller und der assorted minions excel at list making; likely compiling it now- sorted by who has a government contract due for renewal, who has relatives working at the post office, who has relatives still in Mexico… which bank holds a mortgage… somebody back in the 1930’s quilled a book on how to go about this sort of thing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  60. “This is an elected official brazenly intimidating private citizens. Clarity of thought that bars you from working for the NYT or LAT

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (6b1442)

  61. Naturally, the SQUAD gets in on this:

    “Rashida Tlaib

    Verified account

    @RashidaTlaib
    Follow Follow @RashidaTlaib
    MoreRashida Tlaib Retweeted Joaquin Castro
    Chairman Castro, They don’t like it when you name their donors. The public needs to know who funds racism.”

    As always, the only difference between Nazis and Communists is that mainstream Republicans generally distance themselves from Nazis.

    Mango Mussolini (1bb1de)

  62. One thing to do: make sure to donate to Trump in the name of your favorite leftie.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  63. Keep in mind Scarborough is a former conservative Republican Congressman.

    Clearly a man of high principle.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  64. @ DCSCA,

    BTW, Dana, the donations to Trump- or any other candidate- are a matter of public record so that ‘private citizen’ bunk is just that– bunk.

    No, it’s not bunk. Both things are true: theya re private citizens, and donations are a matter of public record. Both are true at the same time!

    You clearly missed already-stated point in all of this: It’s one thing for a private citizen to look up who has donated what to whom, but it’s an entirely different matter when it is an elected official who gets the information and then uses it in a public way to further his political agenda, and intimidate the donors. Do you see the difference now?

    Dana (fdf131)

  65. This is one of the reasons why campaign donations should NOT be public records.

    Good Lord NO. No, no, no.

    See Dana’s reply.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  66. @ DCSCA,

    So a member of Congress highlights the public record; outing the Koch Bros., or any other ‘donor’ for their “support” of whatever. It’s a fair tactic for the parties.

    First, the Koch Bros are not some anonymous Trump supporter living in Texas. They are public figures, and their influence and money – serious money – in politics and policy are lightyears beyond any of the Average Joes I am referring to when I say “private citizen”.

    Besides, what are those ‘donor’ afraid of? What’s to fear? Aren’t they proud of backing our Captain, who is obviously has Castro has characterized? Money talks; supporting him with bucks but perhaps, no yard signs because, you know– blow back, eh?

    I guess if you have to ask the question, then you are not as well informed as I might have thought you were. Trump supporters have been the targets since he was elected. We can argue whether or not they have willingly put themselves in a compromised position by supporting Trump, but the point is, no one should have be fearful of retaliation. And when a powerful politician uses his position to put them in a position of fear, then something is dreadfully wrong. You are putting the onus on the Trump supporter for being too afraid to have yard signs because of what might happen. Perhaps their fear is real. Perhaps they’ve seen instances where vocal Trump supporters have been harassed and worse. Let’s let those who would harass and participate in intimidating Trump supporters own their own behavior.

    So your ‘”they” can look it up themselves’ is a pretty lame. Like there were no Nazis in Germany… well, maybe — but you can look them up yourself. Sheesh.

    I’m not sure why you are sneering at me. They can look it up. You can, I can. But what we do with that information is something else altogether. And if we held elected office and decided to use that information to shame and blame and intimidate, then it would be terribly wrong.

    Dana (fdf131)

  67. See Dana’s reply.

    rcocean (1a839e) — 8/6/2019 @ 6:34 pm

    You’re gonna have to explain how my reply (at 65?) fits into your view there.

    Dana (fdf131)

  68. One of the FBI TeeVee talking heads made an interesting, if not insightful observation: the Trump WH has ordered flags to be flown at half-mast honoring the dead in Dayton and El Paso and then raised on August 8. 8/8; “eighty-eight.”

    “88” is the numerical abbreviation in neo-Nazi circles for the Nazi salute: “Heil Hitler.”

    If you believe that’s just a coincidence or a goof by der staffers and not an intentional, yet subtle message meant to reassure those who need reassuring, we got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  69. It’s one thing for a private citizen to look up who has donated what to whom, but it’s an entirely different matter when it is an elected official who gets the information and then uses it in a public way to further his political agenda, and intimidate the donors.

    I agree with that, and I don’t like it, but there’s no law against it (at least, no law that I know). But bottom line, what would be the difference if the Castro campaign did it or if ardent Castro followers who are not on his campaign did it? It would still be out there on the Twitter, and people retweet these things.

    Paul Montagu (35419a)

  70. Further, DCSCA, do you believe that Castro released those names with good intent or with malicious intent? Please explain why.

    Dana (fdf131)

  71. “One of the FBI TeeVee talking heads made an interesting, if not insightful observation: the Trump WH has ordered flags to be flown at half-mast honoring the dead in Dayton and El Paso and then raised on August 8. 8/8; “eighty-eight.”

    “88” is the numerical abbreviation in neo-Nazi circles for the Nazi salute: “Heil Hitler.” ”

    Numerological babbling to support an insanity defense for your open hatred and lies at this stage isn’t going to save you, Commie.

    Mango Mussolini (1bb1de)

  72. Paul Montagu,

    Yes, there is no law against it. I think it would be bad if the campaign did it, because they would be doing it on behalf of the elected official. Why else would they do it? I think that if Castro followers did it and put it on Twitter, it wouldn’t receive nearly the airplay that it would get if a congressman did it. And we are seeing that play out today. As the day has gone on, more and more pols have jumped into the fray to either condemn or support Castro’s move. If it had been Joe Blow who released theinfo, it would have a very limited shelf life in comparison.

    Dana (fdf131)

  73. One of the FBI TeeVee talking heads made an interesting, if not insightful observation: the Trump WH has ordered flags to be flown at half-mast honoring the dead in Dayton and El Paso and then raised on August 8. 8/8; “eighty-eight.”

    “88” is the numerical abbreviation in neo-Nazi circles for the Nazi salute: “Heil Hitler.”

    If you believe that’s just a coincidence or a goof by der staffers and not an intentional, yet subtle message meant to reassure those who need reassuring, we got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/6/2019 @ 6:47 pm

    Omg. You can’t be serious. You must be trolling with this…

    Dana (fdf131)

  74. 69.

    Micheal Irwin played in Texas and is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, which is in Ohio. His number: 88. coincidence? I think not.

    kaf (0363f1)

  75. @67. You don’t have an argument, Dana.

    Koch’s, Soros, name your celebrity, the local restaurant owner or your own neighbor– whatever. It’s all a matter of public record and there’s simply no foul here to squawk about. All are ‘private citizens,’ too. That Castro’s people show some initiative to question support for a racist bigot is not a foul. If anything, NeverTrumpers and out-of-favor conservatives should be cheering it.

    This is pure Gingrich; he’d do this in a heartbeat. Hell, he’d talk to an empty House chamber for hours just so C-SPAN would televise him.

    If these Trump supporters are willing to send money to a billionaire– which in itself is utterly hilarious- what’s the problem with listing them; there is none; anymore than it would to be to list donors to Obama’s campaign, or Cruz’s run, or Biden’s or any other candidate running. The fact that Castro colors his list by noting they’re supporting an apparent racist and bigot is just the way it is. So let them dispute it– or explain it– or not. As Truman said, if you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. This tactic works both ways and Trump’s people hold grudges, excel at making lists of their own– and have long memories. Ask Chris Cristie.

    And it certainly doesn’t seem to bother the thousands who show up at Trump rallies and the hundred or so stand behind him and allow themselves to be seen publicly, televised worldwide; pictured waving Trump signs for neighbors and viewers.

    There’s just no foul here. It’s hardball politics; not bean bag.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  76. @74. Yes. Totally serious. The FBI guy was on Brian Williams’ MSNBC broadcast last night and red flagged this tidbit. Wouldn’t put it past the brown shirt crowd in the WH basement to do this. t’s subtle stuff; the people they want to reach with it will get it, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  77. “If these Trump supporters are willing to send money to a billionaire– which in itself is utterly hilarious- what’s the problem with listing them; there is none;”

    ‘If these kulaks are dumb enough to support the Tsar, there’s nothing wrong with listing them in the Red Guard Hate List, none at all! The Red Guards are just concerned anti-fascists and telling them that these dirty kulaks are dirty kulaks is no different from telling your grandfather, comrade!’

    Tsar Nicky (1bb1de)

  78. @71. He did it for hardball politics. And if Lindbergh was on the list, he’d have led with his name.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  79. Y

    ou’re gonna have to explain how my reply (at 65?) fits into your view there.

    Fine. I withdraw my comment. happy? Next time I won’t agree with you and stay silent.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  80. Just another minute closer to midnight as we learn our Founding Fathers were prescient.

    Obama wanted to “get in people’s faces.” This is the natural result of what he wrought.

    NJRob (78062f)

  81. Micheal Irwin played in Texas and is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame…

    There was a Michael Irvin who played for the Cowboys with an 88 on his uniform, but not any Micheal Irwin that I know.

    Paul Montagu (35419a)

  82. “He did it for hardball politics. And if Lindbergh was on the list, he’d have led with his name.”

    DCSCA and an alarmingly large number of leftists are absolutely not above shooting a place up and leaving a fake right-wing manifesto knowing the media wouldn’t research it, and then defending it as ‘hardball’ to anyone interested. Govern yourselves accordingly.

    Charles Lindbergh's Baby (839eb2)

  83. Rcocean @ 80,

    I’m sorry, but I’m confused about both of your comments now. I was asking because I genuinely didn’t understand.

    Dana (fdf131)

  84. 8+8=16 and 16 is 1+6 and 1+6=7 and 7 was the number of people killed in shootings in Chicago this same weekend so it’s obvious to me that Trump is practicing racist whataboutism by pointing out to black on black murders in a Democrat-run city.

    nk (dbc370)

  85. “DCSCA and an alarmingly large number of leftists are absolutely not above shooting a place up and leaving a fake right-wing manifesto knowing the media wouldn’t research it, and then defending it as ‘hardball’ to anyone interested. Govern yourselves accordingly.”

    You’re ridiculous

    Davethulhu (bc6fa6)

  86. One of the shooters was a die hard lefty. The other a fringe alt-right guy. I know someone will be set off by this, but I don’t associate either of them with normal folks with political views of any kind. Still, the fringe on both sides is crazy. Some of them empowered to hurt people.

    Any elected official offering literal target lists of private companies and people needs to be impeached. This is absolutely unacceptable, and it’s totally intended to intimidate citizens out of participating in the political process. These guys are acting like this is tit for tat for El Paso, but folks donating to Trump aren’t necessarily supporting any particular thing Trump does. They might just be opposing democrats. Most politically intelligent people dislike both sides.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  87. Something to consider with regard to those who don’t think what Castro did was a big deal: Maybe by doing the heavy lifting and getting the names and posting the list, Castro has made it way easier for Trump haters and nut jobs already primed and ready to dump their anger to do so. He provided them with *specific* targets to go after.

    Dana (fdf131)

  88. DCSCA… time to let your physician know that the Thorazine is no longer effective.

    Wow… just wow.

    Colonel Haiku (c49ed8)

  89. I think all contributions to federal elections of pver $200 requore the donor to give his employer or occupation. Yes, this information is public, but a list of all contributors to a certain campaign is not readily available on the Internet because it is illegal to use another campaign’s list of donors for fundraising. If someone wantsa list of who donated to some other campaign. they have to pay that campaign.

    All that this does is make the case for not dsclosing names of donors. It doesn’t do any good. It’s only used to connect the dots in a way so as to make false charges. (true ones are pooh-poohed)

    And it can be used for boycotts and intimidation,

    This is the issue that was brought up in NAACP v. Alabama 357 U.S. 449 (1958) and it worries Clarence Thomas.

    https://mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1452/delaware-strong-families-v-penn

    If this goes on, they might just succeed in getting disclosure of campaign contributons overturned (although the Supreme Court cases, like Doe v Reed, have concerned other things.

    https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/doe-v-reed/

    Holding: Disclosure of the identity of persons who sign petitions for ballot referenda does not normally violate the First Amendment. The Court leaves open, however, the question whether the First Amendment might prohibit disclosure if it can be shown that disclosure could expose those who signed a petition to serious harm.

    Sammy Finkelman (d542b2)

  90. Maybe by doing the heavy lifting and getting the names and posting the list, Castro has made it way easier for Trump haters and nut jobs already primed and ready to dump their anger to do so. He provided them with *specific* targets to go after.

    No “maybe” about it. That is exactly what the pig did. With the tacit encouragement to go after them.

    nk (dbc370)

  91. the fact of disclosure was used by Bill Clinton (and others in other states) to prevent people (probably mostly people fdoing business with the state) from making politiccal campaign contributions to opponents.

    Sammy Finkelman (d542b2)

  92. “One of the shooters was a die hard lefty. The other a fringe alt-right guy. I know someone will be set off by this, but I don’t associate either of them with normal folks with political views of any kind.”

    One of the shooters had a paper trail and Twitter account a mile long and depressingly similar to the posting style of every ‘punch Nazis’ lefty and a face right out of DSA central casting, another was a Literally Who from the middle of nowhere whom no one but his loopy scientist father knew before a manifesto arose fully formed onto 8chan.

    One type is far more normalized, protected, and given wink-wink nudge-nudge media cover and excuses for marinating in their violent ideology than the others. The violent hatred of the left has institutional support, the violent hatred of the right has at best the support of the institutionalized.

    “Still, the fringe on both sides is crazy. Some of them empowered to hurt people.”

    The fringe, I’ll grant, is not only crazy but mobile across multiple fringes…the El Paso shooter sounded far more like Ted Kaczynski than Ted Cruz. But the FBI that DCSCA idolizes is well known for targeting at-risk youth with generalized extremist propaganda and then arresting them before the fact…or sometimes not. As they learned to pad their resumes with painfully overdone stings on Islamic terrorists while occasionally screwing up spectacularly with the Tsarnaev types, so to will they pad their resumes with the ‘white nationalism’ of any troubled kid crazy enough to listen.

    DCSCA is lucid enough to know all of this and lie about it anyway.

    Charles Lindbergh's Baby (bd0884)

  93. Sammy kinda thought here:
    What if Castro knows what he’s doing is going to generate a backlash, and the natural reform to this kind of abuse of citizens would be to no longer make donor information public? Who benefits from a thing like that?

    Dustin (6d7686)

  94. One of the FBI TeeVee talking heads made an interesting, if not insightful observation: the Trump WH has ordered flags to be flown at half-mast honoring the dead in Dayton and El Paso and then raised on August 8. 8/8; “eighty-eight.”

    “88” is the numerical abbreviation in neo-Nazi circles for the Nazi salute: “Heil Hitler.”

    Sounds like a great day to wear tinfoil hats.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  95. This isn’t 23rd dimensional chess. Castro is foul. This is worse than anything Trump has done imo — at least wore than anything Trump has done publicly.

    JRH (52aed3)

  96. Something to consider with regard to those who don’t think what Castro did was a big deal: Maybe by doing the heavy lifting and getting the names and posting the list, Castro has made it way easier for Trump haters and nut jobs already primed and ready to dump their anger to do so. He provided them with *specific* targets to go after.

    Dana (fdf131) — 8/6/2019 @ 8:29 pm

    And that’s exactly what the Family Research Council shooter did thanks to the SPLC listing them as a hate group on their target list.

    NJRob (78062f)

  97. Call the president out? Yes absolutely, but leave the regular folks out of it. Calling them deplorable is the reason we are here. F&^ing morons.

    JRH (52aed3)

  98. Who benefits from a thing like that?

    From among honest politicians, the non-incumbent.
    From among regular politicians, all of them.

    Everybody. I think it’s horsesh!t in the first place which we did not have before 1970 and got along just fine without it, and unconstitutional in the second place, violating both the First and Ninth Amendments.

    nk (dbc370)

  99. Castro is encouraging/soliciting takers.

    Dana (fdf131)

  100. @72 and @85 Regardless of Trumps motivations or lack there-of, 88 is legit shorthand for Heil Hitler among neo-nazis and white supremacists. Schools are part of the gang taskforce in most districts and it’s one of the things the police department tells us that we are supposed to watch for.

    Nic (896fdf)

  101. Hmm. Marco kinda did something similar. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBVC4zrW4AEor-v?format=jpg&name=large

    JRH (52aed3)

  102. Actualmente, what Rubio appears to have done is much worse.

    nk (dbc370)

  103. But Rubio has been nothing more than Trump’s punk for a couple of years now.

    nk (dbc370)

  104. Wow. I don’t think I knew that Rubio had done that.

    Dana (fdf131)

  105. 89. So you made the list, eh; no explanation necessary.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  106. @105. It’s just a tactic.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  107. @104. “Punks For Trump” — another Twitter audience born! You outta put in for a consultation fee, nk 😉 The Basement Brownies will love ‘ya.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  108. @95. Government issue; give the FBI credit where it’s due.

    Trump wouldn’t know 8/8 from 9/11… but Stephen Miller’s Basement Brownies would. And they’re subtle enough to reach and reassure who they want. And if it’s just a stumble bum intern goof, the people they want to reach will interpret it as for them anyway– because they want to.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  109. It took me about three minutes to get to the list of Joaquin Castro’s donors on the Federal Election Commission website. It should take you less than one minute since you now know to start by Googling “Federal Election Commission”.

    nk (dbc370)

  110. @110. LOL Put in for that consultation fee!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  111. Tangentially related to the Trump campaign, the founder of Students For Trump is a fraud, which means there’s probably a job available for him in the Trump White House.

    Paul Montagu (ab1d35)

  112. Actualmente, what Rubio appears to have done is much worse.

    I disagree. Salt Bae is a public figure and Rubio gave out public information on the guy’s public restaurant, and he didn’t pull the name from an opponent’s donor list. Mr. Bae made the conscious choice to feed a steak dinner to the dictator of a regime that he’s running into the ground and is unfriendly to the USA. The irony is that Maduro was eating Bae’s $200 steak while most of his countrymen are suffering from the Maduro Diet. I say good on Rubio for exposing this salt-tossing starf**king Turkish tosser for the huckster he is.

    Paul Montagu (ab1d35)

  113. 87 – Dustin
    agree.

    mg (8cbc69)

  114. These democrats are looking for a beating, keep it up and ye shall receive.

    mg (8cbc69)

  115. One thing to do: make sure to donate to Trump in the name of your favorite leftie.

    Ask Dinesh D’Sousa how fraudulently donating to political campaigns in other peoples’ names works out.

    Dave (1bb933)

  116. Are the people who made max donations to Trump ashamed of doing so?

    In 2004, I made the max donations to Dubya (the first, last and only time I’ve done that for any candidate). A reporter who must have scoured the donor databases contacted me because I was one of only a handful of University of California employees who had done so (while a much larger number had max-donated to Kerry). I agreed to be interviewed over the phone and was proud to explain why I supported President Bush. The interview appeared in an article in either the LA Times or the OC Register, I forget which.

    It seems to me a feature, not a bug, that people can’t hide from their political donations.

    Anyone who threatens or commits violence or any other crime against someone based on that information should be dealt with harshly, as a terrorist.

    But avoiding doing business with someone who uses the receipts to support views you find abhorrent seems like fair game. I haven’t bought Ben & Jerry’s Ice Cream for about 20 years…

    Dave (1bb933)

  117. Little Marco had his chance to show how tough he was when he made fun of Trump’s teeny wienie and Trump called him out but he blew it.

    nk (dbc370)

  118. @CLB in 93.

    I agree that the Dayton Shooter was lefty. I’m still looking for some evidence that his crimes were motivated by or intended to further his politics. Have you seen that yet?

    Time123 (235fc4)

  119. Little Marco had his chance to show how tough he was when he made fun of Trump’s teeny wienie and Trump called him out but he blew it.

    I’m not sure that yelling “D*cks on the table!” in the middle of the debate would have been the right move…

    Dave (1bb933)

  120. I think Castro has a 100% legal right publish this information. I also think it makes him an ass. I further think that doing so at this moment shows terrible judgement on his part. Being able to draw some sort of equivilance between this and something team R did does nothing to excuse it. When you get the point of running a presidential campaign (even a silly one) I think you own your choices.

    Time123 (235fc4)

  121. Once upon a time in Segregation days, the State of Alabama thought that publicizing the membership of the NAACP was a good idea. The Supreme Court disagreed. (NAACP v. Patterson, 357 US 449). Their logic would seem to apply to this situation. So here is a long judicial quote (sorry) from Justice Haraln. I took the citations out to make it all readable.

    We thus reach petitioner’s claim that the production order in the state litigation trespasses upon fundamental freedoms protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Petitioner argues that, in view of the facts and circumstances shown in the record, the effect of compelled disclosure of the membership lists will be to abridge the rights of its rank-and-file members to engage in lawful association in support of their common beliefs. It contends that governmental action which, although not directly suppressing association, nevertheless carries this consequence, can be justified only upon some overriding valid interest of the State.
    Effective advocacy of both public and private points of view, particularly controversial ones, is undeniably enhanced by group association, as this Court has more than once recognized by remarking upon the close nexus between the freedoms of speech and assembly. … It is beyond debate that freedom to engage in association for the advancement of beliefs and ideas is an inseparable aspect of the “liberty” assured by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which embraces freedom of speech.–. Of course, it is immaterial whether the beliefs sought to be advanced by association pertain to political, economic, religious or cultural matters, and state action which may have the effect of curtailing the freedom to associate is subject to the closest scrutiny.
    The fact that Alabama, so far as is relevant to the validity of the contempt judgment presently under review, has taken no direct action to restrict the right of petitioner’s members to associate freely, does not end inquiry into the effect of the production order. In the domain of these indispensable liberties, whether of speech, press, or association, the decisions of this Court recognize that abridgment of such rights, even though unintended, may inevitably follow from varied forms of governmental action. Thus, in Douds, the Court stressed that the legislation there challenged, which, on its face, sought to regulate labor unions and to secure stability in interstate commerce, would have the practical effect “of discouraging” the exercise of constitutionally protected political rights, and it upheld the statute only after concluding that the reasons advanced for its enactment were constitutionally sufficient to justify its possible deterrent effect upon such freedoms. Similar recognition of possible unconstitutional intimidation of the free exercise of the right to advocate underlay this Court’s narrow construction of the authority of a congressional committee investigating lobbying and of an Act regulating lobbying, although in neither case was there an effort to suppress speech. . The governmental action challenged may appear to be totally unrelated to protected liberties. Statutes imposing taxes upon, rather than prohibiting particular activity have been struck down when perceived to have the consequence of unduly curtailing the liberty of freedom of press assured under the Fourteenth Amendment.

    It is hardly a novel perception that compelled disclosure of affiliation with groups engaged in advocacy may constitute as effective a restraint on freedom of association as the forms of governmental action in the cases above were thought likely to produce upon the particular constitutional rights there involved. This Court has recognized the vital relationship between freedom to associate and privacy in one’s associations. When referring to the varied forms of governmental action which might interfere with freedom of assembly, it said:

    “A requirement that adherents of particular religious faiths or political parties wear identifying armbands, for example, is obviously of this nature.”
    Compelled disclosure of membership in an organization engaged in advocacy of particular beliefs is of the same order. Inviolability of privacy in group association may in many circumstances be indispensable to preservation of freedom of association, particularly where a group espouses dissident beliefs.

    We think that the production order, in the respects here drawn in question, must be regarded as entailing the likelihood of a substantial restraint upon the exercise by petitioner’s members of their right to freedom of association. Petitioner has made an uncontroverted showing that, on past occasions, revelation of the identity of its rank-and-file members has exposed these members to economic reprisal, loss of employment, threat of physical coercion, and other manifestations of public hostility. Under these circumstances, we think it apparent that compelled disclosure of petitioner’s Alabama membership is likely to affect adversely the ability of petitioner and its members to pursue their collective effort to foster beliefs which they admittedly have the right to advocate, in that it may induce members to withdraw from the Association and dissuade others from joining it because of fear of exposure of their beliefs shown through their associations and of the consequences of this exposure.

    It is not sufficient to answer, as the State does here, that whatever repressive effect compulsory disclosure of names of petitioner’s members may have upon participation by Alabama citizens in petitioner’s activities follows not from state action, but from private community pressures. The crucial factor is the interplay of governmental and private action, for it is only after the initial exertion of state power represented by the production order that private action takes hold.

    The name and shame left, when they practice stunts like this, forget their heritage. When the Trumpy types reply in kind (and they are working on it now), they will likely get their memory back.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  122. I agree that the Dayton Shooter was lefty. I’m still looking for some evidence that his crimes were motivated by or intended to further his politics. Have you seen that yet?

    CNN has security camera footage of him entering the bar with his sister and her friend, and then leaving alone about an hour later (and about an hour before he returned and started shooting). He is wearing a T-shirt that says something like “DEATH METAL GRIND” on the back, but otherwise nothing unusual is apparent. He spoke briefly to the staff at the door on his way out. There was no altercation on the way in or out.

    I speculate that maybe his primary motive was jealousy of the El Paso shooter. There are multiple indications that he had fantasized and talked about going on a shooting rampage often in the past. Maybe he was upset that somebody else had actually done it and was getting all the attention. So he decided to get some attention for himself. A kind of “copy-cat” crime, in other words.

    That leaves the question: why did the El Paso shooting set him off, and not the many others that preceded it? And here, maybe the El Paso shooter’s politics, which were at least superficially opposite Betts’ own professed ultra-leftism, were what pushed him over the edge.

    Dave (1bb933)

  123. On one of the shooting threads, some people were talking about kids without a father in the home. FWIW, the Castro brothers’ mother and putative father never married. Castro is their mother’s last name. So Joaquin Castro is a bastard literally as well as figuratively.

    nk (dbc370)

  124. Appalled (d07ae6) — 8/7/2019 @ 6:01 am

    But wasn’t the issue there a state attempting to force a private organization to disclose its membership?

    If so, the relevant question is whether campaign finance disclosure requirements are constitutional, not whether collation and re-publication of already available information violates anyone’s rights.

    Dave (1bb933)

  125. And so much for the trope that the Republicans should be welcoming Latin America “Catholics” because they’ll bring conservative family values. That’s pretty much a myth, I think. Ellos chingan como todos.

    nk (dbc370)

  126. 124 – Imagine if Trump said that!

    mg (8cbc69)

  127. I’ll say this for Trump, mg. He might fool around with them without a license, and while he’s married to someone else, but he marries them before he impregnates them.

    nk (dbc370)

  128. Dave,

    You are correct on the law. What Castro (and the Prop 8 folks in California) did is legal. But it points out a problem in the law, as it leaves average people open to intimidation if they express their constitutional right to donate to someone. We aren’t in Alabama in 1958 quite yet, but the goal on the name and shame left is to get there, with respect to political participation.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  129. Looking at values, I don’t see much difference in Trump and the Castros’ Mom. They both did what they wanted.

    DRJ (15874d)

  130. She taught her son to hate this country, in part because she admired an enemy of if, who ran the firing squads night and day, in the cabana, a beria type, theres no doubt what he would do to conservatives if he was able, he was hillarys hud secretary btw

    Narciso (72d34b)

  131. Do liberals really want to play this game, we dam look to Colombia for example to see how this plays out.

    Narciso (72d34b)

  132. Julian the beardless twin was Obama’s HUD Secretary.

    nk (dbc370)

  133. Their mother is and was a dedicated activist for causes that I don’t agree with, but they are important to her. Further, she and their father were partners until their sons were 8 years old.

    DRJ (15874d)

  134. That’s one way of phrasing it, he was a cold blooded butcher, which has been mainstreamed by media and education like that directed by wannabe bomber bill Ayers but he didnt have that skill set

    Narciso (72d34b)

  135. Joaquin has “raised by a single mother” on his (campaign? House?) website. Wendy promoted a spurious unwed motherhood for herself as I remember, and there was some guy down South running for Congress that made it part of his resume. That Democrats think that it’s a qualification for public office leaves me shaking my head.

    nk (dbc370)

  136. Who is a cold blooded butcher?

    DRJ (15874d)

  137. Trump divorced Ivana and left his children to marry Marla when Ivanka was around 10 and Eric was about 8. He divorced Marla and left Tiffany when she was 4 or 5.

    DRJ (15874d)

  138. Ernesto che Guevara, the one mama Castro idolized, who planned a bombing around Macy’s in 1962.

    Narciso (72d34b)

  139. In interviews, Julian has said she raised them as a single mother after their father left when they were 8.

    DRJ (15874d)

  140. I’m not particular about her living arrangements, they are trying to wipe out any political opposition or drive it underground have they considered where that leads.

    Riger stone and Paul mamafort are treated like 3rd class citizens but Greg ctaif has special privileges like judge Jackson’s former client William Jefferson

    Narciso (72d34b)

  141. @129. It’s not a problem, it’s life; wave a BoSox pennant at a Boston/NY ball game at Yankee Stadium and you’re gonna get raspberries.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  142. It’s kinda Trumpy. His supporters say “he fights,” his detractors say “but look at the norms he’s destroying.” Castro wins; all he wants is attention. but yeah I’ll admit, even Trump has not stooped this disgustingly low.

    JRH (52aed3)


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