Patterico's Pontifications

8/27/2018

President Trump Shamed Into Praising Sen. McCain, Orders White House Flag To Fly At Half-Staff

Filed under: General — Dana @ 2:51 pm



[guest post by Dana]

As Patterico emphasized this morning, we truly have a petulant, thin-skinned man-child sitting in the Oval Office. While he has refused to praise an American military hero, he has shown he is more than willing to praise tyrannical thug-leaders.

It’s instructive to note the contrast between the president’s comments toward members of the military and their families and his presidential proclamation regarding the passing of First Lady Barbara Bush with the feeble tweet he sent after the passing of McCain.

To military families attending a 4th of July picnic at the White House:

President Donald Trump on Wednesday praised the U.S. military for keeping America “safe, strong, proud, mighty and free” and used the Independence Day holiday to thank them for being willing to put their lives on the line in defense of the nation.

“Two hundred and 42 years ago on July 4, 1776, America’s founders adopted the Declaration of independence and changed the course of human history,” said Trump, addressing hundreds of military families attending a White House picnic from a balcony overlooking the South Lawn of the White House.

“But our freedom exists only because there are brave Americans willing to give their lives, to defend it and defend our great country,” added Trump, who was accompanied by his wife, Melania. “America’s liberty has been earned through the blood, sweat and sacrifice of American patriots.”

From the presidential proclamation regarding First Lady Barbara Bush:

On this solemn day, we mourn the loss of Barbara Bush, an outstanding and memorable woman of character. As a wife, mother, grandmother, great-grandmother, military spouse, and former First Lady, Mrs. Bush was an advocate of the American family. Mrs. Bush lived a life that reminds us always to cherish our relationships with friends, family, and all acquaintances. In the spirit of the memory of Mrs. Bush, may we always remember to be kind to one another and to put the care of others first.

As a mark of respect for the memory of Barbara Bush, I hereby order, by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, that the flag of the United States shall be flown at half-staff at the White House and upon all public buildings and grounds, at all military posts and naval stations, and on all naval vessels of the Federal Government in the District of Columbia and throughout the United States and its Territories and possessions until sunset, on the day of interment. I also direct that the flag shall be flown at half-staff for the same period at all United States embassies, legations, consular offices, and other facilities abroad, including all military facilities and naval vessels and stations.

Yet he was unable to muster any face of grace this weekend. It’s stunning, given that President Trump likes to wrap himself in the glory of the American flag and all things American. Whether it’s praising US troops, notable Americans, or by contrast, calling out NFL football players who “disrespect Flag & Country”, this president who loves all things American, refused to budge and praise a flawed individual, who by all accounts was no angel, yet rose to the occasion and exemplified the best of what America has to offer and became the quintessential American military hero. Even when directly (and awkwardly) confronted by ABC News’ Jonathan Karl, the president stubbornly refused to budge:

However, while her father pointedly ignored Karl’s question, Ivanka Trump took time to school her father and honor McCain:

“I want to extend my deepest sympathies to the family of Sen. John McCain, an American patriot who served our country with distinction for more than 6 decades. The nation is united in its grief, and the world mourns the loss of a true hero and a great statesman.”

Soon after this, the White House released an official proclamation lauding McCain’s service to country and ordering flags – including at the White House – be flown at half-staff:

As a mark of respect for the memory and longstanding service of Senator John Sidney McCain III, I hereby order, by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, that the flag of the United States shall be flown at half-staff at the White House and upon all public buildings and grounds, at all military posts and naval stations, and on all naval vessels of the Federal Government in the District of Columbia and throughout the United States and its Territories and possessions until sunset, on the day of interment. I also direct that the flag shall be flown at half‑staff for the same period at all United States embassies, legations, consular offices, and other facilities abroad, including all military facilities and naval vessels and stations.

While Vietnam began honoring Sen. McCain at word of his passing, it’s possible that President Trump might have done so sooner too, if only McCain hadn’t gone and gotten himself captured…

Here is President Trump’s statement that was released today:

Despite our differences on policy and politics, I respect Senator John McCain’s service to our country and, in his honor, have signed a proclamation to fly the flag of the United States at half-staff until the day of his interment.

I have asked Vice President Mike Pence to offer an address at the ceremony honoring Senator McCain at the United States Capitol this Friday.

At the request of the McCain family, I have also authorized military transportation of Senator McCain’s remains from Arizona to Washington, D.C., military pallbearers and band support, and a horse and caisson transport during the service at the United States Naval Academy.

Finally, I have asked General John Kelly, Secretary James Mattis, and Ambassador John Bolton to represent my Administration at his services.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

383 Responses to “President Trump Shamed Into Praising Sen. McCain, Orders White House Flag To Fly At Half-Staff”

  1. This is just indefensible.

    Dana (023079)

  2. You are right, Dana. But I predict the folks who need to urinate on a fresh grave in a classless, heartless fashion will be here soon.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  3. And if Trump issues some praise of McCain (who deserves none) then the Never Trumpers will attack him as a hypocrite.

    LOL.

    No matter whether the flag flies at half-staff for a day or two years, nobody but the Never-Trumpers and Democrats love McCain. No else cares.

    He was a fake conservative, a globalist, and the best friend forever of the New York Times.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  4. Haters goin hate no matter what Trump does. 3 or 4 post bashing Trump over McCain’s death, not one mention of new NAFTA, with a name yet to be decided. 5, 10, 50 years from now which is going to matter?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  5. Added to the post: President Trump’s statement that was released today.

    Dana (023079)

  6. I’ve always thought that we order flags to fly at half-mast far too often (we apparently lowered the flag when United Nations Secretary-General Dag Hammarskjold died back in 1961), but in this case doing it in honor of John McCain, both a war veteran and a politician, is appropriate. But I would think it would be overkill for someone like Dianne Feinstein or Orrin Hatch. But I guess that’s just me being grumpy again.

    JVW (42615e)

  7. Haters goin hate no matter what Trump does. 3 or 4 post bashing Trump over McCain’s death, not one mention of new NAFTA, with a name yet to be decided. 5, 10, 50 years from now which is going to matter?

    Nate Ogden

    It sure seems like you guys are sensitive and upset that Trump is being criticized on his character, simply by accurately pointing out his conduct.

    You’d rather talk about something else? Well by all means go do that at a blog you wrote or someone else did. Instead of telling us to shut up criticisms of Trump.

    Also, if you really think Trump will have a policy legacy maintained for 50 years I am very amused. Do you not see what’s coming in a few months?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  8. Nate, maybe that’s because there aren’t any details available yet? Maybe it’s because the president has a history of “hyperbole” on things and people want to see more information before they comment? Can I assume from your comment that you agree trump is being petty and disrespectful but that you like him and want to change the subject?

    Joe (928a5b)

  9. I’ve been following politics for 30 years. This is the first time anyone cared about whether the flag was at full mast or half mast for a dead politician.

    Next we’ll get a story about how Trump had 3 scoops of ice cream instead of 2, and maybe it was because McCain died.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  10. McCain is the very personification of a RINO. Republicans never knew when the Maverick would unexpectedly rear up and thrash out at some well planned GOP initiative.

    McCain’s no vote against the repeal of ObamaCare is a poignant illustration of his most shallow, petty, and selfish tendencies. Out of pure vengeance he put the health care interests of Americans second to his hatred of Donald Trump.

    McCain is not the man he’s being made out to be. Praise him for his accomplishments, but don’t overlook his shortcomings.

    ropelight (91a9b9)

  11. JVW, for me it depends on whether Feinstein or Hatch dies in office. The death of a long-term sitting Senator *should* be cause for ceremonial action by the government. A former Senator, I think, less so.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  12. #8, yes, it’s funny how reflexively Trumpsters will jump up and try to swat down any criticism of Trump. You can see it when Neil Cavuto reads some of the hate mail he gets for saying anything that’s at all disapproving of something Trump has done, even though he gives credit where it’s due. They just can’t stand it that not everyone reveres Trump as unconditionally as they do.

    Radegunda (400d36)

  13. If death is not the time to overlook someone’s shortcomings, ropelight, then Trump will have a very bleak farewell when his time comes.

    DRJ (15874d)

  14. I’m just waiting to see what kind words Trump has to say upon the passing of his good friends Chuck Schumer and Bill and Hillary Clinton.

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  15. One of the things I’ve been struggling with in the discussions about this:

    we’re all human. we all have strengths and we all have weaknesses. we all have virtues and we all have flaws.

    why do we expect our heroes to not have flaws?

    and why would we choose the moment of someone’s death to focus on their weaknesses and flaws rather than their virtues and strengths?

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  16. It sure seems like you guys are sensitive and upset that Trump is being criticized on his character, simply by accurately pointing out his conduct.

    You’d rather talk about something else? Well by all means go do that at a blog you wrote or someone else did. Instead of telling us to shut up criticisms of Trump.

    Also, if you really think Trump will have a policy legacy maintained for 50 years I am very amused. Do you not see what’s coming in a few months?

    Dustin (ba94b2) — 8/27/2018 @ 3:47 pm

    Heaven forbid someone interrupt your two minutes , two days , two weeks , two months , two years of hate towards Trump. Carry on as usual.

    I see you want Kavanaugh prevented from being seated. Prefer Eric Holder perhaps?

    NJRob (b00189)

  17. What do you mean “we”, aphrael?

    The only ones bad-mouthing McCain are Trump’s dog-molesters, because it’s only by denigrating men like McCain that they can make their draft-dodging punk look good.

    “We” are praising him for those things he did which are praiseworthy and keeping whatever criticisms of him we have to ourselves.

    nk (dbc370)

  18. What was Trump doing during the USS Forrestal fire, Trumpkins? Besides getting spanked by some hookers he and Roy Cohn had picked up on 42nd Street?

    nk (dbc370)

  19. “Also, if you really think Trump will have a policy legacy maintained for 50 years I am very amused. Do you not see what’s coming in a few months?”

    Wrath, blood, and fire for the liars and wire-pullers who orchestrated this sham of an investigation, I trust. Robert Mueller is another “Republican” “hero” who switched to full-time Beltway villainy once he got out of the service.

    “If death is not the time to overlook someone’s shortcomings, ropelight, then Trump will have a very bleak farewell when his time comes.”

    The bleakness of his farewell was assured as soon as he beat the Beltway fake opposition and the presumed Leader of the Permanent Government Party in the same election.

    Trump strives mainly to get things done that would do some good for his country. RINOs mainly strive for a flattering eulogy from the media. Everyone, eventually, gets their heart’s desire.

    Steppe Nomad (8aa339)

  20. the folks who died waiting at the Tucson va, for appointments, well they appreciated john McCain’s attention, that was one of the worst facilities, it’s understandable doc brown, didn’t have a care for them,

    narciso (d1f714)

  21. JVW, for me it depends on whether Feinstein or Hatch dies in office. The death of a long-term sitting Senator *should* be cause for ceremonial action by the government.

    Again, as a certified grump I think that far too many Senators die in office because they hold on for too damn long.

    Does anyone recall that Strom Thurmond didn’t in fact die in office? He retired in 2003 and then died six months later. Of all the people who you would expect to have left the Senate feet first, yet somehow even he voluntarily relinquished power.

    JVW (42615e)

  22. “What was Trump doing during the USS Forrestal fire”

    Not ditching the funerals of crewmates who hated him for Saigon.

    Steppe Nomad (b5d0bd)

  23. CODEPINK
    @codepink
    That time
    #JohnMcCain
    called us “low life scum”

    McCain to Protesters: ‘Get Out of Here You Low Life Scum’
    __ _

    Sonny Bunch
    @SonnyBunch
    I miss him so much already.

    harkin (c0421f)

  24. You know, I’m really starting to appreciate the honesty of Trump’s draft-dodging versus sending the guy who everyone hates to do a job he’s manifestly not qualified for among people he has nothing in common with:

    https://www.truthdig.com/articles/investigating-john-mccains-tragedy-at-sea/

    ““McCain’s actions after the fire show a determination to exit the ship as quickly as possible. When New York Times reporter Apple finished gathering his notes on the fire, McCain boarded a helicopter with him and flew to Saigon. Given that fires still burned on the ship and some of his fellow airmen were gravely wounded and dying, McCain’s assertion that he left the carrier for “some welcome R&R” in Saigon has a surreal air.””

    Both Trump and McCain were occasional hell-raising scions of wealthy families, but at least Trump never tried to put on an I’M JUST LIKE THE REST OF YOU PROLES act:

    ““Apple, now dead, said nothing in his news reports about inviting McCain to leave the ship, although he did report talking to him in Saigon later that day. McCain does not mention receiving permission to leave the still-burning ship. Merv Rowland, a commander and chief engineering officer of the Forrestal at the time of the fire, told me that he had not known that McCain left the ship within 30 hours of the fire and that he found this “extraordinary.” Rowland added that only the severely wounded were allowed to leave the ship and that no one, as far as he knew, would have been given permission to fly to Saigon for R&R. McCain’s quick flight off the Forrestal meant that he missed the memorial service for his dead comrades held the following day in the South China Sea.””

    The family business isn’t for everyone.

    My guess is that it would have been better for everyone involved if John McCain III had been sent to Wharton rather than being forced into a combat pilot slot he was terribly unqualified for among people he had little in common with. Or at least stuck with GWB’s rich-kid duty in the Air National Guard, where at least he wouldn’t have inspired the common hatred that led to the Forrestal libel later on.

    Steppe Nomad (18535a)

  25. DRJ and aphrael have hit the nail on the head. Can you imagine any of these characters at a funeral? And the odd part, to me, is Patterico has made very clear how feels about people dancing on McCain’s grave and being jackwagons.

    Note that there isn’t anything wrong with disagreeing, or even criticizing, McCain’s background. But that isn’t enough for some of the commenters. Instead, they have to show how tough and virtuous they are by attacking a dead man.

    Again, criticizing is classless at this time, but that’s fine. It’s the insulting crap that makes me shake my head.

    It must be because of the Bully in Chief’s example.

    Character matters.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  26. So did Ivanka Trump step in to try to minimize the damage done by her father, or is she just being looking ahead to her own political future and shrewdly showing the country she doesn’t hold his same view in what has turned out to be a big miserable debacle??

    Dana (023079)

  27. “It must be because of the Bully in Chief’s example.”

    You kind of had me till there. Of course, blame Trump and ignore the devolving of discourse that’s been happening everywhere over the last two decades.

    harkin (c0421f)

  28. #19

    I’m guessing McCain was following protocol

    I’m pretty sure pilots are supposed to make sure they don’t incapacitate themselves needlessly.
    An electricians mate and a pilot can both haul hose, but only one can fly a jet.

    steveg (a9dcab)

  29. “So did Ivanka Trump step in to try to minimize the damage done by her father, or is she just being looking ahead to her own political future and shrewdly showing the country she doesn’t hold his same view in what has turned out to be a big miserable debacle??”

    Ivanka is a generally apolitical young mother with enough on her plate already who generally believes what the media tells her to believe and just wants to help manage family crises without too much trouble, I strongly doubt she spends her time reading up on polemic or intelligence reports.

    Steppe Nomad (e4ef25)

  30. #27

    Obama had his petty years too

    steveg (a9dcab)

  31. As the author of this post, I’d like to know why assessing a person’s character – especially one who works for us – as lacking equates to “hatred”? Does it ever occur to you criticizers that you judge me with the same ferocity with which you accuse me of doing with our president? Further, are you ever compelled to simply let Trump own his shit like an adult, and realize that he is the one that just keeps on giving us so much to work with?

    Dana (023079)

  32. “I’m pretty sure pilots are supposed to make sure they don’t incapacitate themselves needlessly.
    An electricians mate and a pilot can both haul hose, but only one can fly a jet.”

    That sounds like exactly the type of excuse that absolutely doesn’t fly unless the pilot’s father is Admiral of the US Pacific Fleet.

    Steppe Nomad (dc6a88)

  33. “Character matters.”

    When you’re dealing with precision instruments and life-and-death decisions made in a timely manner, talent and experience matters a whole lot more.

    Understand this, and you’ll understand both why you got Trump and why everyone’s STILL mad at you for repeatedly undermining him.

    Steppe Nomad (197bc6)

  34. “As the writer of this post, I’d like to know why assessing a person’s character – especially one who works for us – as lacking equates to “hatred”? Does it ever occur to you criticizers that you judge with the same ferocity with which you accuse me? Further, are you ever compelled to simply let Trump own his **** like an adult, and realize that he is the one that just keeps on giving us so much to work with?”

    When your comments and criticisms show little to no independence from the comments and criticisms of the entire US mainstream media and permanent government, you receive the same default ferocity that they do.

    LET TRUMP OWN HIS **** quit resorting to swearing like a teenager when people corner you on a lie you told, you’re not John McCain facing POW widows.

    He’s a bad example to follow and you should feel bad for skating along with the official story.

    Steppe Nomad (c7dede)

  35. Can you pinpoint what lie you allege Dana to have told, Steppe Nomad?

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  36. nk: ‘we’ referring to ‘the people of america taken as a whole’. this isn’t just a sickness of individuals, i think; it feels more like a sickness of the culture and the body politic.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  37. This was a response to an October 2008 Rolling Stone hit piece.

    McCain then went to the squadron ready room, which is precisely what he was supposed to do–get out of the way and let the damage control crews do their job. Aviators are an expensive commodity–it’s stupid for them to get killed doing something for which they are not trained. But Dickinson prefers to compare McCain’s behavior with that of Lieutenant Commander Herb Hope, who got out of his plane and then placed himself at the head of a fire-fighting team. Hope was undoubtedly heroic, but not particularly smart. There is no reason to believe that his efforts leading a firefighting team made one whit of difference to the survival of the Forrestal, since there were qualified damage control officers doing the same thing. On the other hand, as a senior squadron officer, Hope was worth more to the Navy as an aviator than a fire fighter. But hey, the author of this hit piece doesn’t have a clue.

    The Left Wing Wurlitzer was in full tilt back then, and this garbage has only been regurgitated by ex-Democrat Trump’s most loyal supporters.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  38. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/7
    Relevant line from US Code: and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress.

    There’s a protocol office in the White House. Their sole job is to know things like that. Do you think any of them on Saturday, when he died, or Sunday, the day after, asked the President- “Hey, can we fly the flags at half mast today?” The quick answer is “NO!”. They know US Flag Code, they know protocol- that’s their job- and they just did it. Do you think any of them asked the President today, Monday, not the day of or the day after- “Hey, should we keep the flags at half staff?” No, they raised the flag to full staff as U.S. Flag Code (link above) says.

    It’s not that f——-g hard to look up the rules on flying the flag. And as far as I’m concerned, the minimum period specified by U.S. Flag Code is enough for McCain.

    Gospace (f38eb5)

  39. 8 way you make up conversation Dustin you don’t need anyone else. No one told you to shut up, if you feel it appropriate though don’t let me stop you.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  40. 9 Joe, do our trade representatives have a reputation for hyperbole? How about the Mexican representatives? All have had comments and details out.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  41. McCain could be petty and narcissistic, as well. That’s the way he went out.

    That is not written to detract from the good things the man had accomplished. I hope they do rename that Senate building after McCain. He deserves it, and it’s always a good thing to put the legacy of one more racist Democrat in the rearview mirror.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  42. And Georgia Democrat Richard Russell was a racist, of that there is no doubt.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  43. “But Dickinson prefers to compare McCain’s behavior with that of Lieutenant Commander Herb Hope, who got out of his plane and then placed himself at the head of a fire-fighting team. Hope was undoubtedly heroic, but not particularly smart. There is no reason to believe that his efforts leading a firefighting team made one whit of difference to the survival of the Forrestal, since there were qualified damage control officers doing the same thing. On the other hand, as a senior squadron officer, Hope was worth more to the Navy as an aviator than a fire fighter. But hey, the author of this hit piece doesn’t have a clue.”

    ‘we found out in retrospect there were plenty of expendables doing this thing at the time so helping out just because you’re closest to the hazard and thus most knowledgeable about how to stop it is a poor decision’

    This is an incredibly immoral and incredibly self-serving piece of post facto reasoning. You are properly judged on WHAT YOU KNEW AT THE TIME, not WHAT YOU KNEW AFTER GATHERING INFORMATION SIX MONTHS LATER.

    ON A BURNING SHIP, WE SHOULD THINK FIRST ABOUT OUR RELATIVE FIDUCIARY VALUE IN THE PERMANENT CONFLICT AND NOT ABOUT WHAT WE CAN DO TO IMMEDIATELY STOP THE BURNING FROM SPREADING! That’s a moral and fiduciary analysis that WINS elections and INSPIRES people to follow you into battle right there! And I’m absolutely sure it resonated with every single NeverTrumper who worked on McCain’s campaign and cursed the ‘Flight 93 election’ authors!

    “McCain had ‘Revenue Mindset'” is not the road you want to go down, believe me.

    Steppe Nomad (3921fd)

  44. I don’t hold him against beyond his control, the job of a naval aviator whether on the San jacinto, the Essex or the forrestal, is a challenging one, one would be a fool to second guess him about that, policy and personal choices he did subsequently ate another matter.

    narciso (d1f714)

  45. 28 is the perfect example of it doesn’t matter what Trump or his family does the haters goin hate. There is no reason to question Ivanka’s sincerity but the anti Trumpers need to attack no matter what. If Trump flew the flag for a year and gave a beautiful eulogy they would complain he flew it to long and was just trying to distract from last week.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  46. “Can you pinpoint what lie you allege Dana to have told, Steppe Nomad?”

    She operates mainly in unearned hyperbole and question-begging, but this one’s pretty good:

    “Yet he was unable to muster any face of grace this weekend.”

    “Donald J. Trump

    Verified account

    @realDonaldTrump
    Aug 25
    More
    My deepest sympathies and respect go out to the family of Senator John McCain. Our hearts and prayers are with you!”

    His first and only tweet was all the grace McCain deserved. But all the various DC flunkies, toadies, and others who make money no matter which party wins want to stretch that into..

    HERO.
    STATESMAN.
    ROLE MODEL.

    *WRONG*

    Learn when to stop talking and you’ll learn how to stop losing elections.

    Steppe Nomad (9299f1)

  47. “I don’t hold him against beyond his control, the job of a naval aviator whether on the San jacinto, the Essex or the forrestal, is a challenging one, one would be a fool to second guess him about that, policy and personal choices he did subsequently ate another matter.”

    I hold that none of that was beyond his control and that his extremely obvious lack of engagement with his fellow sailors was a foreshadowing of his future disgusting conduct toward his first wife, his fellow Republicans, his party’s platform, his nation’s finances, his Arizona constituents, his fellow POWs, and literally anyone else who wasn’t useful to his career.

    EVERYTHING YOU CRITICIZE TRUMP FOR APPLIES TO JOHN MCCAIN IN SPADES.

    Steppe Nomad (1c9556)

  48. 35 NY Mag had a great interview with Bannon on what lead to Trump. Some great points.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/08/steve-bannon-on-how-2008-planted-the-seed-for-the-trump-presidency.html

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  49. It’s troubling to see Iran resorting to lawsuits and threats. May their mullahs get their just rewards.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  50. The battles are over.
    The man is dead.
    We honor his memory.
    We salute his service.
    We dip the colors.
    We bury his remains.

    End of story.

    And when Trump croaks, we’ll follow the same drill. And for the same, singular reason:

    “Captain Sobel, we salute the rank, not the man.” – Dick Winters [Damian Lewis] Band of Brothers, HBO TV, 2001

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  51. Good grief, a hagiographer of Jane fonda, writing for bob scheer’s rag

    narciso (d1f714)

  52. Can you sink lower, I found that rolling stone quite nearly as nauseating, even more so the people who passed it around.

    narciso (d1f714)

  53. “Good grief, a hagiographer of Jane fonda, writing for bob scheer’s rag”

    I respect any story…that actually holds up. Naturally a lot of the tendentious lefty boilerplate needs stripping away.

    Steppe Nomad (84a647)

  54. 52: Nice to see DSCIA giving out lip service to military protocol that he probably never had to follow in his life and that his fellow Communists actively denied for any Russians who opposed them.

    Steppe Nomad (f4f4ab)

  55. 52: Nice to see DSCIA giving out lip service to military protocol that he probably never had to follow in his life and that his fellow Communists actively denied for any Russians who opposed them.

    Steppe Nomad (f4f4ab) — 8/27/2018 @ 5:55 pm

    What branch of the military did Donald Trump serve in? And when you complain about communist Russians, do you include the ones that Trump’s campaign colluded with to jack around with American elections?

    Or do you guys just spit out talking points with absolutely no concept of self awareness? You are defending Donald Trump. He’s a man most veteran groups harshly criticized today. He’s a draft dodger. He’s known for recently embarrassing our nation in his absurd display of deference to Putin. He bashed prisoners of war. He demanded veterans with little shops on Park Avenue be kicked out as “undesirable.” Trump is the definition of ‘fortunate son’ and he’s repeatedly put himself ahead of others. He is the exact opposite of the selfless service you are preaching for.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  56. They did a hatchet job on the huntress that year as well, Matt taibbi being one of the few journalists putin didn’t bother dispatching.

    narciso (d1f714)

  57. EVERYTHING YOU CRITICIZE TRUMP FOR APPLIES TO JOHN MCCAIN IN SPADES.

    Hmm, lessee bout dat:
    McCain: After five and a half years in a POW camp, McCain came home and his marriage was not the same anymore. He and his first wife tried to keep it together for seven years but in the end they divorced. He remarried and remained faithful to his second wife for 38 years until his death.

    Trump: After dodging the draft with bone spurs, Trump was never able to find the same thrill with his first wife, Ivana, that he had found with his best buddy, Roy Cohn. He cheated on her with Marla Maples, parading Marla in Ivana’s face. He then cheated on Marla with Melania, co-habiting with Melania while still married to Marla. When it came to Melania’s turn, he cheated on her with at least two floozies that we know and their payoffs are now being talked about as the basis for impeachment.

    Yup, IN SPADES, mah man!

    nk (dbc370)

  58. Do you think any of them on Saturday, when he died, or Sunday, the day after, asked the President- “Hey, can we fly the flags at half mast today?

    Of course Trump is responsible for the conduct of his White House. Pathetic to insist otherwise. How cowardly. No wonder he dodged.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  59. Bob scheer originally was a stooge for Fidel, Mao, ho chi Minh, followed the Same ‘Reagan’s going to blow up the world’ from the dog trainer, but eventually they weren’t left enough, so he founded truth dig.

    narciso (d1f714)

  60. Its like when the nation published some account of reef, named Ellis, who disputed bob doles injuries (redact him),

    narciso (d1f714)

  61. At the monument erected by Vietnamese authorities to mark the day when John McCain’s plane, a Major in the U.S. Navy was shot down in 1967, Vietnam has been paying respect to McCain since his death Saturday.

    We don’t have Majors in the USN. We our O-4s are Lieutenant Commanders. I should know, I was one.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  62. Personally, I don’t think the American flag should ever fly at half-mast for anyone. For the same reason that it does not dip in salute for anyone, whereas other flags, pennants and guidons do. It is the symbol of our nation and greater than any person. For mourning, we should fly the black and purple mourning flag (yes, we have one) under the American flag. But I doubt that was Trump’s thinking.

    nk (dbc370)

  63. Steppe Nomad,

    Trump knew on Friday, if not before, that McCain was calling it quits with Regard to medical treatment for terminal cancer. While others in Congress, and politicians from the world at large tweeted words of encouragement and support to the senator, Trump remained silent. Would it not have been a wonderful example of leadership for him to tweet the first offering of support and encouragement? Would that have not gone a long way in demonstrating to both left and right that humanity supersedes politics? He sent the tweet you referenced after McCain’s passing. Do you find it telling about the president of the United States did not offer any suppor, praise or encouragement to McCain while he was still alive but at the end of the line? I did. While you may believe that was the only tweet that McCain “deserved,” others obviously feel differently.

    Further, when you tell me to “Learn when to stop talking and you’ll learn how to stop losing elections, “ I’m going to keep talking and stop reading your comments because you have demonstrated that you are not interested in any honest discussion but instead, defending Trump at all costs. You have far more invested in being right, and in Trump being seen as right or without ant fault or failing than do I. It’s a game I’m unwilling to play.

    Dana (023079)

  64. Coronello, nothing you or I could say would deprive the man of his grave in Arlington.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  65. The daily dance of hate, recriminations, speculation and collusion with Socialists, Democrats and their media operatives.

    Of course, NeverTrumpinistas are running with the Devil.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  66. John Lewis called John McCain a racist just a few years ago. Now he says he was a “warrior for peace”.

    There are many more similar examples of Democrat horseschiff.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  67. Col. Haiku,

    It’s always a bit disappointing to see you jump onto the haters bandwagon. Why is it that if this president is criticized, you immediately and reflexively judge that criticism as simply being the result of hatred for the man ? I don’t ever remember you making such strong accusations against any criticisms of Obama. Even when those criticisms were thin at best and totally partisan at worst. Because I have very little invested in this president, or any other politician at this point in time, it’s always surprising to see the level of personal investment people put in Trump and other politicians as well.

    Dana (023079)

  68. Yeah, this business of screaming at people in all caps, great method of persuasion. Or should I say, GREAT METHOD OF PERSUASION!! Exclamation marks can’t hurt either, ya know.
    And this is yet another simply fascinating tale of Trump-loving McCain-haters using an almost ten-year hit piece to besmirch a guy who died just two days earlier. The funny thing (actually, not funny at all) is that hyperpartisan leftists and hyperpartisan Trumpalistas don’t just at policy disagreements, they’re practically compelled to go the next step and impugn his valor.
    This is was what leftist and Jane Fonda apologist Mary Hershberger did a decade ago, and a whole host of others on the Left followed suit. I saw more than my share of it when I was blogging at a liberal-majority site. Ms. Hershberger’s only live source in her Truthdig piece, the only person she actually spoke to, was Dave Dollarhide, who escaped a burning jet next to McCain’s. Other than that, she relied on a reporter who died two years earlier and other written materials. Here’s what Dollarhide said nine days after Ms. Hershberger’s hit piece.

    Mary Hershberger’s article, Investigating John McCain’s Tragedy at Sea, is the most bogus twisting of the facts surrounding our terrible accident in 1967 to date. My name is Dave Dollarhide and I was there. Hershberger made contact with me recently and said she was just learning of the USS Forrestal fire and as a history professor was very interested in the facts. After letting me talk about my personal experience as an A-4 pilot for a while, she began asking numerous questions about John McCain that I eventually realized were aimed at finding any inconsistencies in his story. Our tragedy is not a place for political muckraking and I backed away from the conversation. One theme from Hersberger’s article is that somehow, McCain contributed to the disaster by dropping one of his bombs to the flight deck.
    Imagine this. A ten foot long rocket fires at supersonic speed into the four hundred gallon drop tank of the adjacent airplane twenty feet away. There was an instantaneous fuel explosion strong enough to rock McCain’s airplane and mine. Shrapnel ripped through deck personnel outside our airplanes and some flew under us hitting an A-4 in his drop tank a hundred feet or so forward of our position. A chaotic conflagration followed. After the fuel tank blast, McCain’s airplane was immediately surrounded by fire, which also rolled under my right wing.
    At this moment, does anyone really think he would take the time to reach over and with one hand hold a latching switch and the other hand pull the gear handle up to bypass the ground safety system that prevents inadvertent firing of weapons. After that, he would need to arm the bomb’s station select switch, followed by turning on the master arm switch, then depress the bomb release button?????? Insane! With the adrenalin flowing, we were just trying to get out of our cockpits and there is no way these things could have been done accidentally. This all happened before the bombs started exploding.
    Hershberger also says, “There was, in fact, a single bomb ”not two ”that dropped to the deck.” She has no way of knowing that! Neither do I and I was there, injured on the deck no more than fifty feet from the bomb in front of McCain’s airplane when it exploded.
    There were nine one thousand bombs that exploded on the deck and most of them probably dropped to the deck before detonating. One explosion was behind McCain’s airplane and was very likely his second bomb to fall to the deck.
    The fire caused the small explosive charges (CAD) in each bomb rack to ignite, forcing the ejector foot of each rack to extend, pushing the bombs to the deck. ¦no switches required here. The same high temperature later caused the M-65 bombs to detonate. Hershberger uses unnamed “persons familiar with the ordnance” in her assertion that only pilot action could have caused a bomb to drop from an airplane. She has quoted people who are misinformed.
    I have no doubt that McCain thought the rocket hit his airplane. This all happened in a few seconds and there was mass confusion. Most certainly, he did nothing to contribute to the tragedy. Hershberger’s assertion is completely irresponsible.
    Other facts in her account are also false.
    Hershberger obviously has political motives in writing this article. Her politics are no business of mine, but she claims to be a historian in talking about a tragedy where many suffered and died. A true historian is dedicated to preserving events of the past as they occurred. She has engaged in exactly what she accuses John McCain of doing and has twisted history to suit her needs.

    This is probably why her account never really went the beyond the left and right fringes.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  69. The outgoing Obama administration used the bureaucracy they had politicized to spy on the Trump campaign. Quite a precedent. If that bothers any of the mouthier NeverTrump folks around here, you’d never know it.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  70. #14, DRJ, some shortcomings are just too egregious to be overlooked, like casting the deciding vote against the repeal of ObamaCare and leaving hundreds of thousands of Americans stuck in shoddy overpriced health insurance that fails to deliver the care and medicines they (over) pay for under government coercion.

    ropelight (91a9b9)

  71. Some folks seem to care more about what’s at stake, Dana.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  72. Cohen/Davis/2020

    mg (148243)

  73. Jane Mayer has a similar interviewing style, according to one subject I managed to contact, she does hours of interview, then yadda yadda it turns out totally different.

    Narciso (d36b60)

  74. It’s fair to say McCain did things but what is the point except to hurt a dead man? It doesn’t change anything. Is Trump’s ego that insecure that he needs people to attack a dead man for him?

    DRJ (15874d)

  75. ropelight, obviously the point was to attack McCain as a way to support Trump for not honoring McCain on his death. But Trump is honoring McCain now, so what is the point?

    DRJ (15874d)

  76. some shortcomings are just too egregious to be overlooked

    Bull.

    It’s done. He’s dead. Press on.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  77. Disco yours still defaming Reagan 14 years later, and probably Nixon, 24 year later.

    Narciso (d36b60)

  78. #73– Trump could care less at what’s at stake, if one judges by his behavior. Acting with pointed gracelessness, then being shamed into mouthing the conventional pieties. The gracelessness was somewhat defensible — McCain was using his illness and death to lend moral authority to some final shots at Trump. The belated backing down was weak, and highlighted the gracelessness.

    Appalled (a85fc3)

  79. Feinstein/Chinese Communist Party/2020

    mg (148243)

  80. And happyfeet landed on both feet at Instapundit.

    is this moribund turd really gonna stink up my whole week

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  81. @68.John Lewis called John McCain a racist just a few years ago. Now he says he was a “warrior for peace”.

    So? McCain ran re-election commercials tagged at the end with him muttering, ‘build the damn wall…’ then in his ‘farewell message to America’ he said, “We weaken [America] when we hide behind walls, rather than tear them down…”

    “There are many more similar examples of Republican horseschiff…” Red.

    He’s dead. Move on.

    But first, tend to that pink eye and honor America, Helstinki: shower.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  82. Lutefisk/Spam Sushi, 3pc $4.69!

    nk (dbc370)

  83. Colonel Haiku,

    whether I should be bothered by the Obama administration’s use of the apparatus of the state to spy on Trump’s campaign depends on how serious the evidence of foreign involvement in the campaign was. I am deliberately choosing to hold my opinions in abeyance pending the end of the investigation, and so I can neither claim that Trump is a stooge of Russia *or* that the Obama administration abused its power, because the jury is still out on both claims.

    That strikes me as the most intellectually honest course of action at this time. Come back to me after Mueller’s investigation is finished and the report is public.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  84. Are we still back to that chestnut again, Hillary commissions an opposition research that just mainline Russian dezinforma straight into the fisa court, and an official intelligence estimate.

    Narciso (d36b60)

  85. Do you find it telling about the president of the United States did not offer any suppor, praise or encouragement to McCain while he was still alive but at the end of the line? I did. While you may believe that was the only tweet that McCain “deserved,” others obviously feel differently.

    You have NO IDEA what Trump did privately. The Never Trumper hatred has always verged on the absurd. Now Trump is a bad guy because he didn’t tweet more about McCain.

    Meanwhile, McCain criticized him publicly for 2 years, refused to give the Dossier, and dis-invited to his funeral. Trump’s treated McCain with the official amount of respect due him. He doesn’t have to pretend he likes John McCain.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  86. Bull.

    It’s done. He’s dead. Press on.
    DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/27/2018 @ 6:51 pm

    Fair winds and following seas and long may your big jib draw!

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  87. Its typical that the MSM is too lazy to read the official protocol, attacks Trump, and then all the Never Trumpers run with it.

    Because the MSM ALWAYS tells the truth when they criticize Trump.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  88. character matters

    Yeah, that’s why all the Democrats and Never-trumpers were OK with having Hillary and Bill back in the White House.

    Character.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  89. 69 ” it’s always surprising to see the level of personal investment people put in (attacking)Trump and other politicians as well.”

    What purpose do all these Trump attacks serve? Do you want him impeached? Annulled? It’s not an occasional comment of dissatisfaction. It’s daily outrage, usually manufactured.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  90. I guess it’s like primal scream therapy, I thought California provided enough venues for that, you know,full well this whole hosannas is just narrative from too many parties who found him an obstacle back in 2008, the truthdig and rolling miss pieces,prove that point.

    Narciso (d36b60)

  91. It was that same publication, which printed outright lies about general mccrystal, ‘fake but accurate, which made it into that thankfully more selective venue ‘war machine’

    Narciso (d36b60)

  92. This was the prior comment by Ms. Hershberger’s star witness, Dave Dollarhide.

    I was in sick bay until we docked at Subic Bay, but my roommate was keeping me in the loop until I was taken to the hospital there. I rejoined the squadron a month later, when they returned to Jacksonville.
    McCain had just been promoted to LCDR, which gave us an overkill of 13 LCDRs in the squadron. For the most part, he was just another pilot.
    The day after the accident, McCain asked the CO of our squadron, CDR Fred Dunning if he could take leave. It was granted…not really a big deal at all. With 5,000 people aboard and no flight operations to be conducted, there was little to do for air wing personnel during the four weeks it took the ship to return to Jacksonville, then on to Norfolk. There were others on the ship given leave also.
    This was never an issue with anyone in the Navy and we didn’t think twice about it.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  93. Warren Beatty, (didn’t he retire the jersey) Gary Hart, who sought to emulate him, and how Biden will be there.

    Narciso (d36b60)

  94. @79. The endless whine of the Colludin’ Cuban. Bitter dregs. When you find a President McCain in the history books, get back to us, narcissy.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  95. You have NO IDEA what Trump did privately.

    Pecker do. And Pecker does.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  96. That’s right up there with garbage kitty Kelley writes that made into the times, than to Maureen dowd.

    Narciso (d36b60)

  97. You know, I’m really starting to appreciate the honesty of Trump’s draft-dodging

    You? Steppe Nomad?? Appreciating something immoral Trump did???

    I am Jack’s complete lack of surprise.

    Patterico (55b816)

  98. What purpose do all these Trump attacks serve? Do you want him impeached?

    I’d be fine with it. There are ample grounds. Pence is a spineless weasel and would 1000% better.

    Plus it would upset you a lot, Nate Ogden. You and people like you. And that would be a bonus.

    Patterico (55b816)

  99. They’ll go after him next, they loath him even more than trump,

    Narciso (d36b60)

  100. It’s not an occasional comment of dissatisfaction. It’s daily outrage, usually manufactured.

    It’s routine observations that a bad man who became President is a bad man. The observations stop when he stops being a bad man or he stops being President. In the meantime, since they upset you, I’ll try to step them up.

    😉

    Patterico (55b816)

  101. Col. Haiku,

    It’s always a bit disappointing to see you jump onto the haters bandwagon. Why is it that if this president is criticized, you immediately and reflexively judge that criticism as simply being the result of hatred for the man ? I don’t ever remember you making such strong accusations against any criticisms of Obama. Even when those criticisms were thin at best and totally partisan at worst. Because I have very little invested in this president, or any other politician at this point in time, it’s always surprising to see the level of personal investment people put in Trump and other politicians as well.

    It’s not bias or unfair commentary against bad people to note that they are bad people. The fault lies with Donald Trump for being a bad man, not with me for noticing.

    You’d think all these people were related to Trump, so sad are they made by truthful observations regarding his moral defects.

    Patterico (55b816)

  102. In that first clip, where Melania and Spanky are sitting together for a photo-op, did anyone ask her for reaction to her husband’s six-figure payouts to two (other) sex workers?

    She has hidden (or been hidden) from the press for months to avoid facing those questions.

    Dave (445e97)

  103. Trump world would fly int a frenzy at the offense to her.

    Honestly, the main way she probably minds is that it makes her look foolish. Otherwise, theirs is a transactional relationship and she is still getting the benefit of her bargain. As long as he lets her spend what she wants to spend, and she lets people believe that she doesn’t despise him, the transaction is complete.

    Patterico (55b816)

  104. You’d think all these people were related to Trump

    ,
    That’s the oddest thing: the emotional intensity of the reflex to defend the personal honor of Donald Trump no matter what. If you’re going to be so devoted to a person, well beyond saying you like such-and-such policies, why a person so ill-deserving of personal esteem?

    Radegunda (400d36)

  105. Trump world would fly int a frenzy at the offense to her.

    At himself, in other words.

    Dave (445e97)

  106. According to WSJ, staffers kept prodding Trump to release a proclamation re McCain. Finally, Sanders got it done:

    A senior White House official said White House press secretary Sarah Sanders was instrumental in getting the president to agree to the proclamation, with the help of chief of staff John Kelly. “It was 99% Sarah,” the official said.

    The president of the United States had to be prodded, encouraged and compelled to release a proclamation honoring a deceased senator and war hero. He didn’t want to do it. According to the Report, here’s why:

    White House officials said they prodded Mr. Trump for two days to put out a kind word about Mr. McCain. Mr. Trump resisted, and viewed the news coverage of the former senator’s death as over-the-top and more befitting a president, according to people familiar with the situation. They said cable networks’ focus on the flag controversy came at the expense of more coverage of Mr. Trump’s trade deal with Mexico.

    So basically the president was jealous of the attention and accolades being showered upon McCain, believing that only a president should receive such overwhelming attention. And of course, with his wounded pride and emotions controlling his decision-making, he alone made a non-issue into a major debacle, which in turn took attention away from his trade deal. His stubborn refusal to simply behave with grace and dignity and respect at the death of a beloved senator cost him dearly. But will he own it? Of course not. Well his supporters demand he take responsibility for this screw-up? No.

    Dana (023079)

  107. Another apocryphal official, named Harvey I suppose, come on you know the game they are playing, they are honoring this man who not only knuckled under to Obama at a critical point, but then had his underlings anonymously of course defame some one who was the stakes clearly, unlike jack ryan and Blair hull wouldn’t surrender

    Narciso (d36b60)

  108. That’s the oddest thing: the emotional intensity of the reflex to defend the personal honor of Donald Trump no matter what. If you’re going to be so devoted to a person, well beyond saying you like such-and-such policies, why a person so ill-deserving of personal esteem?

    His lies make them feel really, really good about themselves.

    As someone once said, you don’t fall in love with a person, you fall in love with the way the person makes you feel.

    Dave (445e97)

  109. “So basically the president was jealous of the attention and accolades being showered upon McCain, believing that only a president should receive such overwhelming attention. And of course, with his wounded pride and emotions controlling his decision-making, he alone made a non-issue into a major debacle..”

    Really.

    No. McCain told Trump to steer clear and only Pence was acceptable. So Trump steered clear and didn’t issue anything from the executive branch as per McCains request.

    This isn’t about wounded pride or jealousy, it is about two stubborn men who dislike each other intensely. This is petty. McCains vote on Obamacare was petty, not principled; Trumps sticking to the letter of the law and staying out of McCain’s passing has petty elements for example “if you don’t want me to be any part of it, I won’t do anything, including instructions on the flag…”

    Its two men who want to fight each other down to the dot on the i

    steveg (a9dcab)

  110. Oh and don’t say its unpresidential because our history has a lot of petty moments from past Presidents

    steveg (a9dcab)

  111. Hi all….
    I’ll be as short as possible. Pres. Trump can be, is, will be, an arrogant ass. When McCain walked to the dais and voted “thumbs down” on the ACA repeal, he did it because of personal animus and bad politics, not conservative philosophy. He was wrong. McCain took the election cycle personally, and got his vengeance. Why would we expect better from the person so many think is already worse? McCain could have decided, for both conservatism and for “staying above the trash he was subjected to by Pres. Trump” to make the right vote, but he didn’t. Pres. Trump comes from a different world than McCain, one of business back-dealing and stabbing, so, when McCain went low in retaliation to Pres. Trump’s behavior, we got what we got. And, when Pres. Trump chose to say nothing, this week, he got ripped anyway. Now he’ll be ripped for saying the right things. And, McCain still screwed conservatism by his actions. May he Rest In Peace. Semper Fi.

    reff (654c04)

  112. And, remember, the same media that is praising McCain this week tried to destroy him in the Presidential election….just as they are trying to destroy Trump, tried with Bush I and II, Reagan,…..et al….

    reff (654c04)

  113. Trump won’t admit to being shamed. Watch him frame it as “McCain told me to stay out of it, so out of respect for his wishes I did, but the great veteran community reached out to me and even though it was unwanted by McCain, I intervened at the request of the American veteran community”

    Trump should console himself by reminding himself that his nemesis is demised and the boil is off his butt, and best pal Lindsey is out saying it is OK to dump Sessions. That smells like a win.

    steveg (a9dcab)

  114. “It’s not bias or unfair commentary against bad people to note that they are bad people. The fault lies with Donald Trump for being a bad man, not with me for noticing.“

    When it’s done on a daily basis in cahoots with the people who were at one time the opposition, it’s a borderline mental disorder.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  115. No that’s over the top and I apologize for the intemperate remark.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  116. 105 “As long as he lets her spend what she wants to spend, and she lets people believe that she doesn’t despise him, the transaction is complete.”

    Wasn’t it just a couple days ago you threatened anyone that put words in your mouth? Now your assuming a highly educated women is a gold digger only interested in money?

    What you just implied is more offensive than anything Trump has said this month not to mention mysoginistic.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  117. Meanwhile was buried in the media’s covering with a pillow, well that training camp in New Mexico, had an Atlanta hospital in its cross hairs, there seems to be a new trade deal with Mexico,

    Narciso (d36b60)

  118. 102 is Melania a bad women? Is Ivanka a bad women? What has either done, besides being related to Trump, to deserve the personal attacks? Can you quote even one time either of them has said something mean about someone else?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  119. “It’s routine observations that a bad man…”

    “Routine” doesn’t do it justice. It’s more like a rut.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  120. I normally don’t bring other men’s wives. But if he doesn’t fall on his knees and pray to God every day, he doessn’t deserve Melania.

    https://www.inuth.com/trends/social-virals/melania-trump-donald-trump-holds-hands-with-israeli-pms-wife-for-the-sweetest-reason-photo-goes-virale
    \\\
    I know he’s rich and all. But Melania was a super model. Something tells me that there’s more here evethan meets the eye, Even the most mediocre model can bag a millionaire.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  121. I really wish there was an edit function.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  122. Klavan sure describes a lot of what has been going on…

    “One of my theories about the classic gangster television series The Sopranos is that creator David Chase recognized an important truth about the structure of TV storytelling. In normal stories, a protagonist is placed in a situation that uniquely challenges his character so that in traveling through the arc of the story he is transformed in comic or tragic ways. But in a TV series, the hero’s character is never really transformed — because otherwise the series would end — and he is doomed to repeat the same actions over and over without surcease. In short, he is in Hell, like the sinners in Dante’s Inferno who must repeat the same actions forever. Or like Tony Soprano.

    Nowadays, watching the news, and reading social media, I feel a bit like Tony Soprano myself. A story breaks — a prominent person dies or there’s a mass shooting, for instance — and the exact same reactions appear on news media discussion panels and social media as the last time such a story occurred. Then these reactions fade away as we grow weary of hearing about the event. Then a similar event occurs and we all become embroiled in the exact same conversation. We never learn. We never change. We just do it again and again and again.

    So, for instance, Senator John McCain dies. For the record, the man was a heroic patriot with whom I often disagreed. At such a moment, out of respect for those who knew and loved him, with a due awe for that mortal end which reminds me of our shared humanity and with the understanding that he now stands before the perfect Judge who needs no help from me, I find it right and proper to put all political considerations aside and wish the man well on the Great Journey. Either pay tribute, say Rest in Peace, or keep your mouth shut. Nothing else is required.

    And this is how we all behave — for about five minutes. By the sixth minute, however, the reactions on the news channels and social networks have turned predictably vicious. Some can’t get out of their own heads long enough to silence their political snarling. Others use their tributes to McCain to make nasty comparisons to the living. Still others start attacking the way some paid their respects. It’s like watching people pull the man’s body apart and beat each other over the head with his limbs.”

    https://pjmedia.com/andrewklavan/why-are-we-in-media-hell/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  123. “I normally don’t bring other men’s wives.”

    Damned considerate of you, Steve!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  124. Now your assuming a highly educated women is a gold digger only interested in money?

    She ain’t married with no broke Donald.

    As for her being highly educated, “[s]he attended the Secondary School of Design and Photography in Ljubljana, and studied architecture and design at the University of Ljubljana for one year before she dropped out”. But she can say “100 euros plus fifty for the room and 10 for cabdriver” in four languages.

    nk (dbc370)

  125. Yes, that probably closer to the truth, coronello, just as there is first to denounce, there s also first to confirm.

    Narciso (d36b60)

  126. I am a considerate man, Coronello. My mother wouldnb raise any other kind of son.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  127. My keyboard is acting up.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  128. I got lucky in my ancestors choice of country, didn’t I.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  129. https://nzhistory.govt.nz/war/bird-class-minesweepers/moa-and-kiwi-bag-a-sub

    So you know that I have all kinds of respect for the diggers and the kiwis.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Apiata

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  130. Wasn’t it just a couple days ago you threatened anyone that put words in your mouth? Now your assuming a highly educated women is a gold digger only interested in money?

    *you’re

    What you just implied is more offensive than anything Trump has said this month not to mention mysoginistic.

    I thought Trumpalos disdained the concept of things being “offensive.”

    Lol just kidding. I know: only things that offend you are important.

    What I just implied, she has publicly admitted. Her relationship with him is a transaction. There: I said it again. Did you get offended again? Oh my.

    Patterico (55b816)

  131. “Routine” doesn’t do it justice. It’s more like a rut.

    Fortunately you bitching about it isn’t a rut!

    Patterico (55b816)

  132. Now your assuming a highly educated women is a gold digger

    She ain’t messin’ with no broke Donald.

    Patterico (55b816)

  133. Oh I guess nk already kinda said that. It’s OK. I say it a lot.

    Patterico (55b816)

  134. 102 is Melania a bad women? Is Ivanka a bad women? What has either done, besides being related to Trump, to deserve the personal attacks? Can you quote even one time either of them has said something mean about someone else?

    “Woman” is the singular form, Trumper, and we alll know how devoted Melania is to opposing meanness and cyberbullying. Lol

    Patterico (55b816)

  135. guilty as charged.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  136. guilty as charged.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  137. Sorry.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  138. https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/05/video-iranian-burns-quran-says-we-are-hostages-of-this-book-this-book-has-nothing-but-violence-and-misery

    YouTube has taken down the video So I can’t verify it. I do know that YouTube has taken down videos of Iranians burning Qurans. They are fine, as I am, if you want to live your however you see fit. But they are tired of living under a theocracy.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  139. 119, the 2nd story is about the extent to which Trump would be willing to help Teddy Basket Ring. Can’t give the Cornytes an excuse to jump ship.

    urbanleftbehind (2b82d0)

  140. If the Republican Congress would’ve governed like they campaigned, it would’ve taken a lot of the wind out of the sails out of the Trump campaign. They chose to play more rounds of golf.

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  141. 13… every rut action begets a rutting reaction…

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  142. 144 Trump turned the working Democrats and is turning the African American vote, two main causes GOPe has claimed why we lost prior elections. Trump hasn’t sold out with open borders or welfare to do it.

    They must fear their place in a new GOP, if they have a place at all. Who knew a reduction in SALT would have such drastic impact on mood, personality, and beliefs.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  143. Maybe Republican Congress and the Never Trumpers are suffering from what VDH calls the Bloomberg Effect; “And it is political habit to mask one’s own failures by lecturing others on their supposed shortcomings.” You would think winning and seeing a conservative agenda finally advanced would cure this.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  144. Schlicter has a great idea: Let’s make the party smaller! I think he’s already getting his wish.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  145. 144 The Jekyl and Hyde Congress?

    https://www.conservativereview.com/news/no-adding-a-few-more-republicans-to-the-senate-will-not-change-the-equation/

    “Rather than spending their August recess forcing major votes on immigration, national security, and terrorism and holding marathon late-night sessions to force confirmation of more Trump nominees, senators passed a funding bill for the Labor Department, Health and Human Services, and the Department of Education that increased spending from even the omnibus levels. As we warned a few weeks ago, it spends tens of billions more than Trump requested on each department. Also, they had the temerity to tie funding of controversial programs within these departments to the military in the same bill.

    As we all know, HHS is the primary funder of abortions among the government departments, and this bill funded Planned Parenthood. Now, most senators will hide behind the fact that they voted (all but Sens. Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins) for Rand Paul’s amendment to defund Planned Parenthood. Don’t buy the excuses. Once Paul’s amendment was defeated, they should have opposed final passage of the bill. Yet 40 Republicans went on to vote for the final bill with the funding. As an aside, phony “pro-life Democrat” Joe Manchin not only voted for final passage but against Paul’s standalone amendment.

    This was also the first time since the inception of Obamacare that Republicans directly funded every iota of Obamacare through a specific HHS appropriations bill, aside from the general “catch-all” continuing resolutions and omnibus bills. That Republicans love Obamacare (and always have) is not surprising, because on Friday, 10 Republican senators introduced legislation protecting the core mandates of Obamacare. Some of them are very prominent: Thom Tillis, Lamar Alexander, Charles E. Grassley, Dean Heller, Bill Cassidy, Lisa Murkowski, Joni Ernst, Lindsey Graham, John Barrasso, and Roger Wicker.

    Then there is immigration. While they declined to pass a strong DHS funding bill and tie it to the military, senators instead funded HHS, which contains the Office of Refugee Resettlement, which is wholly responsible for the invasion by Central Americans and all the gangs and drugs brought in since 2014.”

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  146. 148 Rank n Yank worked well for Welch and GE, some sound science behind it.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  147. The beatings will cintinuee till morale improves, Nate, I think the fujimori option holds promise. The rep
    Ublucan part where the whigs + free soilers, abolitionists, and the American party.

    narciso (d1f714)

  148. Schlicter has a great idea: Let’s make the party smaller! I think he’s already getting his wish.

    I see his tweets for his columns but I stopped reading them because they are all the same: “When will people wake up and realize that the real enemy is the left conservatives who dislike Trump [you know, like I used to. Ssssh!]?”

    Patterico (c39be0)

  149. 13… every rut action begets a rutting reaction…

    And this set of reactions begins with Trump’s daily jackassery. Yet you are unwilling to trace the set of reactions to its source, preferring the tribalist fantasy that Trump is pretty much just another normal president and people like me are making stuff up when we criticize him.

    Patterico (c39be0)

  150. But that’s OK. I don’t write for people like you.

    Patterico (c39be0)

  151. Rank n Yank worked well for Welch and GE, some sound science behind it.

    Indeed, it makes perfect sense to compare a business practice in the top-down corporate world to political tribal cleansing.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  152. Maybe focusing on whatever is,not the passing squirrel:

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/08/u-s-slashes-aid-to-west-bank-and-gaza.php

    Narciso (60df36)

  153. All this will come to pass, in the final days, have you not gotten the big picture.

    Narciso (60df36)

  154. 153… i’ve mentioned repeatedly that Trump is a buffoon, that he can’t keep his mouth shut or pass up an opportunity to be petty, but you are tightly wrapped up in your rut. I’ve mentioned all of this but have managed to get past it. Some will, some won’t. Some do, some don’t. You’ve made your choice.

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  155. 154… not very often these days, that’s true. You’ve chosen the Ian Faith method of making sure your audience becomes much more “selective”.

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  156. Maybe focusing on whatever is,not the passing squirrel:

    That’s a pretty haughty tone from someone who yesterday repeated a Cernovich/Gateway Pindit fake news story and has yet to acknowledge his error or apologize.

    Patterico (c39be0)

  157. “A Chinese-owned company operating in the Washington, D.C., area hacked Hillary Clinton’s private server throughout her term as secretary of state and obtained nearly all her emails, two sources briefed on the matter told The Daily Caller News Foundation.

    The Chinese firm obtained Clinton’s emails in real time as she sent and received communications and documents through her personal server, according to the sources, who said the hacking was conducted as part of an intelligence operation.

    The Chinese wrote code that was embedded in the server, which was kept in Clinton’s residence in upstate New York. The code generated an instant “courtesy copy” for nearly all of her emails and forwarded them to the Chinese company, according to the sources.

    The Intelligence Community Inspector General (ICIG) found that virtually all of Clinton’s emails were sent to a “foreign entity,” Rep. Louie Gohmert, a Texas Republican, said at a July 12 House Committee on the Judiciary hearing. He did not reveal the entity’s identity, but said it was unrelated to Russia.

    Two officials with the ICIG, investigator Frank Rucker and attorney Janette McMillan, met repeatedly with FBI officials to warn them of the Chinese intrusion, according to a former intelligence officer with expertise in cybersecurity issues, who was briefed on the matter. He spoke anonymously, as he was not authorized to publicly address the Chinese’s role with Clinton’s server.

    Among those FBI officials was Peter Strzok, who was then the bureau’s top counterintelligence official. Strzok was fired this month following the discovery he sent anti-Trump texts to his mistress and co-worker, Lisa Page. Strzok didn’t act on the information the ICIG provided him, according to Gohmert.”

    https://dailycaller.com/2018/08/27/china-hacked-clinton-server/

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  158. Isidore of Seville

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  159. Maybe focusing on whatever is,not the passing squirrel:
    Right call to not fund Palestinians, and also the right call to keep a military presence in Iraq, thus not repeating Obama’s galactically stupid decision to declare “I ended the war in Iraq” and completely withdraw.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  160. DAMMI

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  161. Some folks like the focus on jobs. Others, including NeverTrump, by default, appear to have chosen identity politics and transgender bathrooms.

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  162. 153 “preferring the tribalist fantasy that Trump is pretty much just another normal president”

    Trump was nominated and won because he wasn’t just another normal candidate and thus President. The tribalist are the never Trumpers that refuse to accept the majority of the party didn’t want another normal loser.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  163. i Keep dopping letters and whole words.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  164. 155 Assuming that’s sarcasm; why would it not apply to political movements as well? Their is a very small uninvited white supremacist element on the right, the majority of the party agrees this element is not beneficial for the movement. Why can other non-productive segments of the party not be identified and removed so the party as a whole can move forward? It was made clear the GOPe ruled the Tea Party unwelcome and is trying to do the same with Trump.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  165. This ‘squirrel’ is Trumps fault. Seriously, how hard would it be to say something like;
    “John McCain was a Senator, a veteran, a patriot and a war hero. He served his country his entire adult life and showed tremendous character. He was loved and admired by many. The Nation will mourn his passing. My condolences to his friends and family in their time of grief. In accordance with his wishes I will not attend his memorial service and instead am sending Mike Pence in my place.”
    Instead we get days of Tump being a brat, and people criticizing him, and people sticking up for him. I don’t really know why the president has such a hard time with something so simple. There’s ZERO cost in a brief statement and moving on.
    The focus of the last few days on how Donald Trump is a crummy person is a 100% unforced error.

    Time123 (441f53)

  166. I see that the McCain defenders are predictably trying to get me to defend the Forrestal lie rather than the much more effective truths surrounding it. No dice!

    “theirs is a transactional relationship and she is still getting the benefit of her bargain. As long as he lets her spend what she wants to spend, and she lets people believe that she doesn’t despise him, the transaction is complete.”

    Patterico continues to tirelessly resist the notion that Chicks Dig Jerks for their own sake, will continually fail to learn from or adjust policy based on this realization.

    ‘W-what she really wants is four point FIVE percent before she loves me!’

    “What branch of the military did Donald Trump serve in?”

    He’s currently serving as Commander In Chief Of The United States Armed Forces, boyo. To a level of approval among the actual active trigger-pullers far greater than John McCain ever had.

    “And when you complain about communist Russians, do you include the ones that Trump’s campaign colluded with to jack around with American elections?””

    No, because I don’t promulgate baseless conspiracy theories just because they’re paraded in my face every day by people (including Communist Russians!) who want to jack around with American elections.

    “Yup, IN SPADES, mah man!”

    Trump’s adulteries: Every single one of his women knew the score: the usual bored rich people screwing each other over for money and media attention. He made up with every single one and their kids are all active in his organization.

    McCain’s adulteries: banged hookers in Saigon and Europe while his wife waited patiently for a return home, after returning home, continued banging various floozies while his wife, crippled from injuries much like his own, convalesced, dropped his wife when he decided to go into politics (‘just didn’t work out’) Notions that he’s remained faithful ever since are probably wishful thinking.

    In any case, rest assured that verifiable Republican indifference to the histories of far less effective people named “McCain” and “Gingrich” are why NeverTrump Republicans are getting absolutely zero traction when complaining about adulteries in Trump’s history.

    “You? Steppe Nomad?? Appreciating something immoral Trump did???”

    Having actually lived life and seen the practical effects of certain strains of moralism, I have what’s called a “hierarchy of values”, I say that defaulting on debt is immoral unless the alternative is selling your children into slavery, I say that draft-dodging is immoral unless the alternative is inflicting sneaky, dangerous, and reckless people like John McCain on the troops.

    ALL WRONG ACTIONS ARE EQUALLY WRONG is the philosophy of children, or the pretense of people who want to get the children on their side.

    But I get why Pat and the NeverTrump crew love to defend John McCain so much, he was truly the consummate *individualist* who recognized the dangers of creeping socialism in all aspects of life. Lesser men would be stopped by loyalties to ‘professionalism,’ ‘partisanship’, ‘cameraderie’, ‘good order and discipline’, ‘delivering results’, ‘serving those who served’, ‘getting all the facts out’, or ‘following designated leadership’. Not McCain! His life speaks of a dedication to the Great American Philosophy of Individualism that Jonah Goldberg could only dream of!

    He supported the troops ONLY when it reflected well on his reputation specifically.
    He attacked journalists with manly invective ONLY when they were fringe elements who couldn’t easily hit back with their own pieces.
    He attacked government waste ONLY when it affecting things outside his particular Beltway policy agenda.
    He NEVER fell prey to the constraining collectivism of ‘principles’ and ALWAYS made sure he was surrounded by the higher comradeship of other Washington comrades who were in it to defend their own personal self-interest above all.
    He opposed Obamacare ONLY when it was politically expedient to do so.
    He stayed in the vicinity of his bedridden wife ONLY as long as it helped his Washington career.

    He was, indeed, beyond the petty communisms and capitalisms, the tainted ‘Team Spirit’ of mere mortals. That is why even his supposed enemies are honoring him today: his hierarchy of values unfailingly placed himself at the top, letting all lesser things burn away like plane parts in the night!

    Steppe Nomad (e0fdd4)

  167. 161 “The Chinese wrote code that was embedded in the server” Would be nice to know if this was at point of manufacture, install, or how. If true it seems like a big enough security threat that the public should be warned.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  168. 169 It’s naive to claim if Trump has made the exact statement you suggested he would not have been attacked. No matter what Trump said or did he was going to be attacked. Ivanka’s statement was very nice and she was still attacked and second guessed. If he is going to be attacked either way why invest the time?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  169. WSJ reports Trump was angry that ‘cable news coverage’ of McCain’s passing was ‘over the top’ and more befitting a ‘president’ than a ‘senator.’

    Apparently Tee Vee Trump didn’t get the world in his ‘Apprentice’ days that outside of ‘rolling coverage’ of a live event, ‘cable news‘ [as opposed to ‘opinion’ programming and the high calorie, ‘morning’ shows buffets] is not designed for ‘hour after hour’ consumption for extended periods of ‘Executive Time.’ Rather, research indicates viewers dip into it on and off for only a short time– you know, for news. If you want ‘news,’ Captain, sir, switch to Headline News, read a newspaper [that’s hard for you I know] or the short burst copy from the AP wire service on your phone while you pinch off a Doocy in the WH can, dummy-Captain-sir.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  170. “But that’s OK. I don’t write for people like you.”

    Just like McCain didn’t vote for people like you!

    Steppe Nomad (7e96bb)

  171. Why can other non-productive segments of the party not be identified and removed so the party as a whole can move forward?

    Now there’s a false comparison for ya, comparing immoral white-nationalists to Republicans who won’t subscribe to Trump loyalty tests.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  172. If he is going to be attacked either way why invest the time?

    Nate Ogden (223c65) — 8/28/2018 @ 7:18 am

    Because it’s his job? Because it was the right thing to do? Because he is the President of all Americans, not just the ones he likes?

    DRJ (15874d)

  173. 172.
    Nate, He will likely be attacked not matter what. That seems true. All John McCain did was die from cancer and now there are people on this thread claiming without evidence that he’s been unfaithful to his current wife and attacking his military career. Those people are scummy, and probably not worth listening to.

    Another difference is that the people attacking him would be wrong. In this case the people attacking Trump are right. Because of that they’re doing a lot more of it, and it’s persuasive. Trump really does seem thing skinned, petty, and weak in this situation. He didn’t have to, many other ways to handle it, but he picked this one.

    Time123 (797615)

  174. And yet he didn’t step down from the seat, and spend his remaining days with his family, that’s what matters in the long run, like Jacob Marley he missed the big picture.

    Narciso (60df36)

  175. should have been “thin skinned” not “thing skinned” sorry for the typo.

    Time123 (441f53)

  176. 168. “Their is a very small uninvited white supremacist element on the right, the majority of the party agrees this element is not beneficial for the movement.”

    From what I see the leader of the republican party has no objection to their support and will only criticize them under duress. This seems like welcoming behavior.

    I see little evidence that Trump, or his supporters, have much problem with this portion of their coalition.

    Time123 (441f53)

  177. Ah Charlottesville again, how is it Terry McAuliffe never has blood on his hands,

    Narciso (60df36)

  178. I see that the McCain defenders are predictably trying to get me to defend the Forrestal lie…

    That’s what you call a Freudian slip. As they say, politics makes strange bedfellows, in this case aligning with left-wing Jane Fonda friendly hacks who write hit pieces for a left-wing rag like Truthdig, all in service to impugn the character of one of Trump’s political opponents. It must be exhausting.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  179. I love that they called it “McCain Defenders”, Paul.

    In other words, these guys know McCain was insulted, and therefore criticizing these remarks is a ‘defense’. Even though most (all?) of the people critical of Trump’s conduct actually were not McCain fans, and just don’t think disrespect is necessary when a man has died, we’re McCain’s defenders.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  180. 176 it’s the President’s job to raise and lower the flag each day and write obituaries? I rather he spend his time on trade deals, the economy, and immigration. That explains why GOPe never accomplishes anything important, you don’t know what’s important.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  181. 180 funny how timing works sometimes. Dr. Darrel Scott was just on Varney talking about their New Urbanism projects, meeting with Trump, and his support. So one one side we have minorities praising Trump for his support and the other side, your claims of racism based on……?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  182. Jim Brown, well respected around here in Ohio, was doing interviews today also discussing the work he is doing with Trump.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  183. I love that they called it “McCain Defenders”

    There were many times during the primaries when I was called a Hillary-lover or a Bernie-bot just because I had criticized Donald Trump. Even if I was only quoting him, and even if I was pointing out his recent admiration for Hillary Clinton, I must be in the enemy camp if I did not enthusiastically, uncritically support Donald Trump. There’s also the idiotic “RINO” (or “rino”) label for any conservative who doesn’t love Trump.

    Radegunda (400d36)

  184. 176 it’s the President’s job to raise and lower the flag each day and write obituaries? I rather he spend his time on trade deals, the economy, and immigration. That explains why GOPe never accomplishes anything important, you don’t know what’s important.

    Nate Ogden

    The president was condemned by many veterans groups over his conduct. He then backtracked. The president should treat veterans with tremendous respect, because his office sends them into harms way. It’s offensive enough for a president to do this when he’s a draft dodger who bragged about partying with the ladies when he dodged the draft. Much worse when he can’t show tremendous compassion when a POW passed away.

    As to your simpler point, no no no. Trump is responsible for everything his white house does. He’s responsible for decisions like this. The idea he’s not is just pathetic It’s his white house. He asked for this job and the responsibility.

    Someone needs to tell Trump that his oath didn’t mean ‘execute the office of the presidency’ as in destroy it, but rather to faithfully make responsible decisions on behalf of the values of our country.

    So one one side we have minorities praising Trump

    This kind of naked pandering for facebook messaging is hilariously weak. Trump didn’t deny using racial slurs. He settled that claim years ago for his company marking tenant applications with “C” for colored, and not approving them.

    Mr. Leibowitz was called to testify at the commission’s hearing on Ms. Brown’s case. Asked to estimate how many blacks lived in Mr. Trump’s various properties, he remembered replying: “To the best of my knowledge, none.”

    After the hearing, Ms. Brown was offered an apartment in the Wilshire, and in the spring of 1964, she moved in. For 10 years, she said, she was the only African-American in the building.

    Complaints about the Trump organization’s rental policies continued to mount: By 1967, state investigators found that out of some 3,700 apartments in Trump Village, seven were occupied by African-American families.

    We did our own investigation and enlarged the case,” said Elyse Goldweber, who as a young assistant United States attorney worked on the lawsuit, U.S.A. v. Trump.

    A former Trump superintendent named Thomas Miranda testified that multiple Trump Management employees had instructed him to attach a separate piece of paper with a big letter “C” on it — for “colored” — to any application filed by a black apartment-seeker.

    The Trumps went on the offensive, filing a contempt-of-court charge against one of the prosecutors, accusing her of turning the investigation into a “Gestapo-like interrogation.” The Trumps derided the lawsuit as a pressure tactic to get them to sign a consent decree like the one agreed to by Mr. LeFrak.

    The judge dismissed both the countersuit and the contempt-of-court charge. After nearly two years of legal wrangling, the Trumps gave up and signed a consent decree.

    As is customary, it did not include an admission of guilt. But it did include pages of stipulations intended to ensure the desegregation of Trump properties.

    It’s all very typical. Trump does something terrible, refuses to take responsibility for the decision making (his job title was President of this company), then settle.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  185. #NeverTrumpers, a question:

    Is there a common element that informs and unifies Trump’s unhinged detractors? Likened to a disease, is there a ’cause,’ or some point of exposure to infectious nostrums? A brainwashing event or series of events?

    Why and under what sinister goading did so many otherwise healthy and well balanced minds succumb so quickly and so compulsively to the Pavlovian cult of kneejerk personal hatred for the very individual diligently working to enact the conservative political agenda they have long embraced?

    ropelight (72ff69)

  186. There were many times during the primaries when I was called a Hillary-lover or a Bernie-bot just because I had criticized Donald Trump. Even if I was only quoting him, and even if I was pointing out his recent admiration for Hillary Clinton, I must be in the enemy camp if I did not enthusiastically, uncritically support Donald Trump. There’s also the idiotic “RINO” (or “rino”) label for any conservative who doesn’t love Trump.

    Radegunda (400d36) — 8/28/2018 @ 8:55 am

    I’ve criticized Hillary thousands of times on this blog, but when I said I think Trump is terrible because he’s so much like Hillary that I can barely see the difference, I was called a Hillary supporter by the Haiku troll dozens (if not hundreds!) of times. Using Hillary as an insult = supporting her?

    RINO is very ill defined these days. But if we’re talking about Republicans who spend too much money and flake out on policies, Trump is the most egregious RINO ever, simply based on the math of his deficits, and his record of broken promises. If we watch his campaign speeches it’s amazing how much stuff he promised to do in the first few months of office that he simply doesn’t give a fig about anymore.

    There’s a reason the Ace of Spades set hates conservative critics of Trump a billion times more than they do the left side of the F Trump bandwagon. As soon as it’s apparent Trump doesn’t represent conservatism, his value evaporates, and all that remains is the extreme political cost of putting this guy in power.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  187. There’s also the idiotic “RINO” (or “rino”) label for any conservative who doesn’t love Trump.

    I laugh every time I’m called a “RINO” by supporters of a man who said “I know Hillary and I think she’d make a great president,” and who bankrolled Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer, John Kerry, Jimmy Carter, Kirsten Gillibrand, Charlie Rangel and Anthony Weiner.

    Ideological purity for thee, but not for me!

    Dave (445e97)

  188. Why and under what sinister goading did so many otherwise healthy and well balanced minds succumb so quickly and so compulsively to the Pavlovian cult of kneejerk personal hatred for the very individual diligently working to enact the conservative political agenda they have long embraced?

    ropelight (72ff69) — 8/28/2018 @ 8:58 am

    You’re right that healthy and well balanced folks of many perspectives, particularly conservatives, are very critical of Trump, and you’re right that you’ve been unable to explain this in a reasonable way. I am amused you say trump is dillengently enacting a conservative agenda when his spending is absolutely horrible compared to George W Bush or Bill Clinton. Trump’s no conservative. He’s on record supporting gun control and universal health care, and his fawned over a literal communist dictator. He’s the president most like Jane Fonda. Conservative?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  189. “Ah Charlottesville again, how is it Terry McAuliffe never has blood on his hands,”

    Narciso (60df36) — 8/28/2018 @ 7:47 am

    Note that the townspeople got rid of their mayor and their police chief.

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  190. “He’s the president most like Jane Fonda.”

    Dustin is wrong, of course.

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  191. I’ pretty sure that Dustin said here on PP back in 2016 that he was considering voting for Hillary Clinton.

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  192. Dustin:<Someone needs to tell Trump that his oath didn’t mean ‘execute the office of the presidency’ as in destroy it, but rather to faithfully make responsible decisions on behalf of the values of our country.

    Someone needs to tell Trump that his oath didn’t mean ‘execute the office of the presidency’ as in destroy it, but rather to faithfully make responsible decisions on behalf of the values of our country.

    very clever

    PS to ropelight: I understand your curiosity. I would like to ask Trump supporters the same thing, but I think the answer is the same for both grouos. Trump supporters and conservative Trump critics feel like our values are being ignored and undermined, and it is upsetting.

    DRJ (15874d)

  193. Sorry about the double quote but it was doubly clever.

    DRJ (15874d)

  194. “Ace thinks I’m responsible for Hillary. No s*&^ sherlock… I’m probably going to vote for her to stop Trump. I’m openly saying Trump is more dangerous. Blame blame blame away if that makes some of you feel… well, self righteous. I’m proud to stop Trump.”

    Dustin (ba94b2) — 7/21/2016 @ 7:01 pm

    https://patterico.com/2016/07/21/a-message-to-anyone-who-criticizes-ted-cruz-for-standing-up-for-his-family/#comment-1908762

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  195. I was hoping Dustin was telling the truth, but there it is…

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  196. Did They, I wasn’t aware, but McAuliffe still exacted his blood price, to win the election.

    Narciso (60df36)

  197. After it was revealed Dustin, that the irs had manufactured a phony lien against O’Donnell did you apologize, so how do you like Chris coons who was reelected last time to almost no notice.

    Narciso (60df36)

  198. Trump supporters and conservative Trump critics feel like our values are being ignored and undermined, and it is upsetting.

    DRJ (15874d) — 8/28/2018 @ 9:14 am

    DRJ, it’s always nice to try to get the other perspective. I sincerely think ropelight expresses himself in good faith. He really doesn’t understand, and I think he feels conservatives who are too eager to hassle Trump are actually harming their own interests.

    I think these guys often explain that Trump is no saint, and we have a difference of opinion of how important that is to everything he does. If someone thinks results are all that matters, no matter how we get them, it’s important to point out when there are bad results, as an alternative argument. The deficit really is unacceptable.

    But we’re moving away from results, and now it’s ‘yeah Trump’s no saint’ and ‘yeah his results suck’ but ‘it’s not his fault, it’s your fault and hillary’s fault and fake news fault’. Well so what if that were true? Trump was supposedly a great idea because his attitude and will is so strong he’ll ram through all these “great deals”. He was supposed to get results. So what if it’s not his fault he is failing? Of course I don’t really think it’s not his fault, but I do think this is an important point.

    Are we better off for having Trump as our president, versus any other GOP candidate from 2016? What specific result can I look at and be pleased, as someone whose primary interests are a balanced budget, national security, and transparent, ethical government?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  199. A lot of “Deplorables” out there per Dustin.

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  200. Dustin is no Jane Fonda but these two guys remind me of her.

    DRJ (15874d)

  201. A lot of people made the celebrity-bully choice because they were exasperated with politics.

    DRJ (15874d)

  202. Is there a common element that informs and unifies Trump’s unhinged detractors? Likened to a disease, is there a ’cause,’ or some point of exposure to infectious nostrums? A brainwashing event or series of events?

    How utterly condescending of you! Has it not occurred to you that there are thoughtful, intelligent people who criticize Trump? Does it not register in your mind that calling anyone who criticizes Trump unhinged, diseased, infectious, or brainwashed is a sure way of making the thoughtful critics refuse to take you seriously?

    So let’s start with a basic question: is Trump ever deserving of criticism?

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  203. I was hoping Dustin was telling the truth, but there it is…

    Colonel Haiku (b35858) — 8/28/2018 @ 9:20 am

    Many times I compared Trump against Hillary, noting she’s terrible and so is he, and you lied about this, saying I’m some kind of Hillary supporter. There’s only one politician I’m actually praising in that thread, and it’s Cruz, though I also praise Pence for some reason. Anyone reading that thread in good faith would have to acknowledge that I am saying Trump is so bad, Hillary might as well win. My summary that I was using this comparison with Hillary as an insult to Trump is quite fair. Yours is quite dishonest. But then, how many times have you lied about something, Haiku?

    Following your link, I’m insulting her over and over in that thread, saying she stinks. You’re fully aware of how dishonest you’re being right now. Just because someone didn’t want Trump to win the election doesn’t make them a Hillary supporter. I she is one of the weakest presidential candidates in history… I just think Trump will do more damage, long term, to the conservative movement.

    Narciso, I think O’Donnell is a weasel. I don’t apologize for this view just because she was indeed victimized by the left and the IRS. But I did acknowledge how bad that was. You see, to me both Hillary and Trump, or O’Donnell and the IRS, can be wrong. I’m not going to pick a side and then pretend my side is innocent because that would be dishonest.

    Granted, Haiku has clearly obsessed over me. The owner of this blog criticized Haiku for needling me over the loss of my son. The mods have criticized Haiku for needling me over my nationality and then lying about authoring that comment. Haiku is a psycho.

    But indeed Haiku is right that I really saw no benefit to Trump versus Hillary. This is before I knew he was going to make a couple of good supreme court picks, and indeed I’ve admitted this tips the scales quite a bit. I’m not clairvoyant. Otherwise, Trump’s been worse than I thought he would have been.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  204. On reflection, the main reason I enjoy taking potshots at Trump and his supporters, especially his supporters, is the same reason that people would try to “Dunk The Geek” at old-timey carnivals.

    nk (dbc370)

  205. 204… dang it… I was expecting Donald Sutherland and Elliot Gould…

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  206. Your own words, Dustin.

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  207. “The owner of this blog criticized Haiku for needling me over the loss of my son.”

    Liar.

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  208. Well said, Dustin.

    DRJ (15874d)

  209. Condolences were expressed a couple of times, no one should have to endure something like that…

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  210. Dustin is a sanctimonious, thin-skinned prick.

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  211. #52
    Sometimes I wish we had a way to up-vote or down-vote a comment, especially in light of DCSA’s comment at 52….

    Well said, sir

    and thank you

    Annie (3088ef)

  212. At any rate, Haiku, clearly I hate your guts. I should be a bigger man than that, but over the years you’ve been pure trash in your conduct towards me, no matter how many times I’ve tried to let it slide.

    There’s no purpose in responding to you, and I realize you see that as an opportunity to smear me until you get the response. You did this to dave too, and I should have spoken up but thought it would just make it uglier.

    At any rate, obviously I do not support Hillary and have criticized her many times. I agree with her on almost nothing. When I say what’s the difference between Trump and Hillary, it’s an insult, and no matter how many times you pretend you didn’t understand this, it’s still an insult and not an expression of praise.

    Does any other commenter here really believe that I approve of Hillary’s views, leadership, etc? Does anyone else here believe that if I could pick our president, that Hillary would be in my first 100 million choices?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  213. Can’t wait for the rinos presidential puppet pick for 2020. Guaranteed they spend more per vote than they did on jebby boooooosh. Lmmfao at these self appointed losers.

    mg (decadf)

  214. Also, thank you DRJ. I always really appreciate it when you or Beldar or Aphrael think I’ve made a point well because of my respect for how each of you discuss the issues. Discussing the issues on this blog has greatly improved how I articulate myself. It’s difficult because this blog has such a high bar to moderation. Every view will be challenged, often unfairly, but always in some way, and that means I’ve realized I was wrong more than a few times. The price I pay is trolls. Obviously you and I think it’s worth it because we are here, but I definitely go back and forth on that.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  215. mg, if for whatever reason Trump doesn’t run in 2020, whom will the Trumpkins draft as their candidate? Putin, Duterte or Kim Jong Un?

    nk (dbc370)

  216. In response to DRJ:

    As the primary season dawned, I was so completely disgusted with Barack Obama, his sycophant media accomplices, and the Democrat party (and the GOPe) that I would have supported beelzebub rather than see Crooked Hillary in the White House.

    As the GOP field coalesced, I was initially taken with Governor Scott Walker of Wisconsin, but it soon became clear his candidacy wasn’t ever going to catch fire.

    Then, examining the remaining GOP field, with Ted Cruz in the lead, I concluded he wasn’t qualified

    ropelight (72ff69)

  217. #221 is an incomplete and inadvertent post. I’ll continue down thread…

    ropelight (72ff69)

  218. As the primary season dawned, I was so completely disgusted with Barack Obama, his sycophant media accomplices, and the Democrat party (and the GOPe) that I would have supported beelzebub rather than see Crooked Hillary in the White House.

    Trump as a pushback against the left does have a lot of appeal. Is it appeal that justifies trillion dollar deficits and scandal? And… more pushback in the other direction? But I get it.

    Think about this. Lois Lerner, Benghazi, the email thing with Hillary… no one really cares about that stuff now. Obama’s administration will be remembered as squeaky clean (note when Haiku pastes this comment in 2021: I do not think this myself). Trump’s degree of scandal, the payoffs to women, the comments about grabbing women, the lawyers pleading guilty… it’s going to reinforce the notion that democrats are the party of ethics and the GOP is the culture of corruption. The dems were able to do this with Mark Foley! The same emotion you explain about Obama is being felt by so many people now, only in the other direction.

    Then, examining the remaining GOP field, with Ted Cruz in the lead, I concluded he wasn’t qualified

    He’s made a lot of mistakes since then, but he’s a conservative and he’s quite smart. At the end of the day we’re guessing because he never served in the military, never ran a state government, and I really think the GOP should try harder to find candidates with that qualification. You’re never wrong to assume a politician will let you down I suppose.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  219. What ever floats your boat, Dustin…

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  220. @192. Personal foibles aside, he’s not an ideologue; he’s a pragmatist and will cut deals for a win-even when the Congress flips on him. He’s a transient; his election has been strategic; essentially neutered the modern ideological conservative movement. They’re still jumping ship.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  221. 188 fixing the VA and the recent pay raise, not to mention the end of reduction in size, is far more important to the military than an obituary for McCain, anyone that thinks different I honestly don’t care.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  222. Cruz never would have beat Hillary, any of the other 12 winning the nomination would have ended with President Hillary.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  223. Cruz would be my choice, nk.

    mg (decadf)

  224. Cruz never would have beat Hillary, any of the other 12 winning the nomination would have ended with President Hillary.

    Nate Ogden (223c65) — 8/28/2018 @ 10:22 am

    Well I thought Hillary would crush Trump. I really fell for it to be perfectly frank. I thought Trump had zero chance at all. So I can’t really insist you’re wrong.

    I think Cruz is a very skilled politician and often underestimated. He should have been a footnote, but he dragged the primary out against Trump (and the establishment that preferred Trump to a conservative). Honestly it’s hard to believe he even won the Senate race. He lacks that likeability of a Mitt Romney, and in a strange way I really like that about Cruz. He’s not a game show host style of politician.

    He opposed one of the least capable debaters, who really struggled towards the end. Granted, Cruz would not collude with the Soviets so he lacked that advantage that Trump had, and this clearly made a big difference in the results. So perhaps you are right?

    But more important, Cruz vs Hillary would have been a real choice between two different philosophies on freedom, spending, the role of government. Trump vs Hillary was not much of a choice. Two corrupt and sleazy crooks, one of whom supported the other with lavish praise and cash not that long ago. They both promised tons of great programs and lied about how much money they would save us. I’d have rather seen Cruz and Hillary debate, and then seen where the country decided to go. If Hillary, well so be it. The government should follow the will of the people. When the political parties keep putting up such similar candidates (Obama vs Mccain, Hillary vs Trump) I don’t think we get as much democracy as we should.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  225. Mittens is the least likeable puppet of all time. I lived through his non conservatism in the land of massholes

    mg (decadf)

  226. You hate his guts more than the minions of Kimberlin, that went after you and Patrick, and mandy and a host of others, where is the perspective, cody shearer was knee deep in this snipe hunt, and you know who’s his master,

    Romney was swallowed in half by the crocodile, so now he volunteers to throw everyone in the pit, I guess that’s the lesson in politics,

    narciso (d1f714)

  227. No, actually I don’t. I think you’ve misinterpreted my point of view, which I suppose is understandable as you communicate differently than I do.

    My little post explaining my views on Kimberlin remains up. I’ll never take it down. He is the only person I’ve actually written a post about. I think he’s the worst.

    Trump, on the other hand, is the president of the united states. He’s more newsworthy to me, and I hold him to a high standard. If Trump were just selling his steaks on QVC or hosting a show with the Kardashians you would hear nothing from me about him. I never spoke of Trump ever, not on the internet, not in my life, not ever, until he ran for president.

    You mistake holding someone accountable for ‘hate’. That’s not what hate is to me. I discuss things that I think are interesting and important, and indeed controversial. If no one was here to argue that Trump is super cool, I wouldn’t bother, but I enjoy the debate.

    If Trump showed up at my door right now, I’d have a diet coke with him and offer my advice and even show him respect. This is not how I would respond if a bomber showed up to my door, I can assure you.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  228. He’s made a lot of mistakes since then, but he’s a conservative and he’s quite smart. At the end of the day we’re guessing because he never served in the military, never ran a state government, and I really think the GOP should try harder to find candidates with that qualification. You’re never wrong to assume a politician will let you down I suppose.

    Meh.

    About 40 years ago, did a thesis researching every candidate from the start of the Republic through 1976 who had their ‘initial elected office’ at state, Congressional and executive offices with no previous government experience.

    Boring as hell going through volume after volume of the Congressional Record year by year, person by person for over six months. But culled out the data based on previous occupation and graphed it all out with projections into 2000. The shift from agrarian-based occupations to lawyers- who were natural legislators- began trending toward business-experienced candidates after the Civil War; spiked in the 1880s but became essentially a steady, growing trend growing into he 20th century indicating the trend woud overtake lawyers. Outliers like entertainers, aviators, athletes, astronauts, war heroes, law enforcement, etc., and so forth were minimal.

    The data indicated a steady rise in candidates winning their initial elected office w/business backgrounds as opposed to legal or other occupations on state and national levels and the graphed projections suggested they’d be the predominant occupation types seeking office by the turn of the century. And the data trend projections suggested one of the major political parties would eventually nominate a candidate for Chief Executive who’d held no previous elected office and had only business experience by 2000. Was off by 16 years. And of course, campaign finance laws have changed as have social trends- women and minorities seeking office and so on.

    The analysis/discussion/debate revolved around: (a)- Why this trend was occurring- [financial; cost of running for office; bored execs., seekers of new challenges appeared key] and more interestingly, (b)- Would modern business executives, experienced and skilled in the autocratic structure and methods of corporate efficiency, be able to transfer that skill set to government, which is by design not structured to operate as efficiently nor as an autocracy. W/that in mind – and putting personal foibles aside- Trump is struggling in office w/o any previous gov’t experience as guidance.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  229. Continued from #221…

    …I concluded (Ted Cruz) wasn’t qualified, he wasn’t a ‘natural born citizen’ and thus failed to meet Constitutional requirements. Few voices here agreed with me and many were unrestrained, even enthusiastic, in their criticisms of my position, me, and the horse I rode in on. I lost a few long term friends over the question of Cruz’s qualifications.

    But, that brouhaha was small potatoes compared to the storm of outrage my subsequent support for Donald Trump caused. As the primary campaigns continued, it was beyond obvious to me that Trump, and only Trump, had the wherewithal to effectively challenge Crooked Hillary.

    As Ronaldus Maximus said, Vote for the most conservative candidate who can win. Ordinary Americans did and now we have a President of surpassing courage and competence. He’s new to national office, but so far there’ve been remarkably few serious hiccups.

    Trump’s victories are so many, so quick, and so far-reaching that it amazes me that his detractors refuse to see the progress, the wealth, the jobs, the rekindling of basic industries, and the confidence in our economy, that Trump has brought to our once great, and soon to be better-than-ever-before, nation. (Especially in the face of the organized criminal cabal of Obama’s thugs and henchmen ensconced in the top offices of our clandestine agencies intent on using every illegal dirty trick in the book to drive Trump from office.

    The way I see it is the stakes have never been so high, and we’ve never had a leader so right for the tasks at hand, that I can’t but suspect that devine providence may surround Donald Trump’s bed at night and whisper in his ear.

    ropelight (72ff69)

  230. “A new poll shows that a majority of Americans support the president’s right to revoke security clearances of former government officials.

    According to the Harvard CAPS/Harris Poll online survey, “59 percent of registered voters felt Brennan should have lost his security clearance, while 64 percent said Comey and others at the FBI who were fired or demoted over their actions should lose their clearance.”

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/majority-of-americans-agree-with-trumps-decision-to-revoke-brennans-security-clearance/

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  231. and cnn not surprisingly lied about trump not consulting dni director coats, in other news, fred ohr’s lips are moving, and they figured out his testimony, was not on the up and up.

    narciso (d1f714)

  232. Geez, the one time Trump actually follows the ‘if you can’t say anything nice,’ rule and STILL you guys rag on him!
    I swear, it’s like he can’t win for losing!

    Ingot9455 (4db0d9)

  233. DCSCA,

    No doubt the trend is there. I still think running a state government gives a presidential candidate a better understanding of how the job works. It’s easy to say you get it on an academic level, but which candidates actually were able to deal with a legislature in enacting a converversial reform? Which were willing to take the harder path in those situations? Scott Walker is a great example of someone who would be an outstanding president because of his experiences.

    Instead we get candidates like Mitt Romney (granted a governor, but not one who really had that much success in reforming government in the right direction, or being reelected after a tough fight). Romney’s argument was that he knows how to cut our government because as a businessman he cleaned up a lot of companies and turned a profit. Trump was also supposed to be a great president because he is supposedly a great businessman. I’m sure there’s a lot of overlap in skills, but it’s not the same thing.

    …I concluded (Ted Cruz) wasn’t qualified, he wasn’t a ‘natural born citizen’ and thus failed to meet Constitutional requirements. Few voices here agreed with me and many were unrestrained, even enthusiastic, in their criticisms of my position, me, and the horse I rode in on. I lost a few long term friends over the question of Cruz’s qualifications.

    That’s a shame that you feel you lost friends over your earnest opinions. I think the other side (my side) of this issue is that Natural Born Citizen is a legal term, and the courts already cleared up the issue. At any rate, I don’t think Cruz has loyalties to any other nations so I wasn’t understanding the reason for the concern. Clearly this is an American. Only one candidate truly had foreign ties, and that was Trump. Indeed, his loyalties are often in question when he’s in the room with Putin, unfortunately, so I just don’t see how Cruz can be considered problematic as far as loyalty goes.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  234. No, actually I don’t. I think you’ve misinterpreted my point of view, which I suppose is understandable as you communicate differently than I do.

    Dustin, it’s not communicating differently, it’s intentionally misrepresenting and lying. Typical Trumpistas, also cannot bother to actually spell, punctuate, or capitalize correctly, ESL?

    You’re just better off setting the IQ threshold at 82, it filters the riffraff and makes the experience much improved.

    Colonel Klink (51d08b)

  235. I agree, ropelight. Watching Trump’s media techniques and interpersonal techniques at work and knowing something of the tools he’s using is incredible. What Scott Adams calls the ‘talent stack’.
    That, and the obvious support of military intelligence, and definitely divine providence.

    Leftists always taunt and complain about evangelical Christian support of Trump. I always respond, “Evangelical Christians know that the Lord has a long history of working through flawed men.”

    Ingot9455 (4db0d9)

  236. For godsake, Trump is the president. A noted senator who endured much on behalf of the nation passed away. Just lower the flag out of respect and publicly say something that makes it clear a man worthy of praise has departed this earth. This wasn’t hard. For normal people, this would be a normal process. But because Trump is so inordinately self-centered, thin-skinned and has to make everything be about him, he boffed it. He dug in his heels, and paid the price for it. Instead of the news focusing on his Mexico deal, the president continued to draw attention to himself by behaving like a petulant child. This is on him. Why can’t you Trumpers let him own this? He is the one that made this a big messy spectacle. He is the one who stubbornly refused to listen to the advice of his staff. He is the one whose hurt feelings dictatedhow he responded to a national tragedy. He is the one who let his emotions get the best of him. He is the one who could not rise above. He once again smeared his own reputation. He’s a grown man who holds the most powerful position in the world. Let’s let him be that and take responsibility for everything that comes as a result of that. I don’t think the problem is that people support Trump per se, but it’s that supporters continually infantilize him and never let him assume responsibility for his own poor decision making . It’s like they are parents of petulant teenage girls and making excuses for their bitchy temper tantrums and out of control emotions. I don’t think they would do this in their personal lives but they sure are sure more than willing to do this with the POTUS .

    Dana (023079)

  237. You’re just better off setting the IQ threshold at 82, it filters the riffraff and makes the experience much improved.

    Where do I adjust this setting?

    Dave (445e97)

  238. I still think running a state government gives a presidential candidate a better understanding of how the job works.

    It’s also helpful to have someone who doesn’t believe that his own “good instincts” and “great brain” are sufficient to do everything better than anyone else has ever done them.

    Radegunda (400d36)

  239. Like making how Conway took a picture, more important than the meeting, no the media isn’t interested in trade, except their own more selective one, which often isn’t fit to trAin puppies. Like debating that a summit would actually take place based on some apocryphal account,

    narciso (d1f714)

  240. Dave, follow the link to Patterico’s, et al’s, script.

    Colonel Klink (8cf599)

  241. Dana, I agree that often the problem is not so much Trump himself as the zealots who defend him at all costs, fling invective and obscenities at critics, and put themselves through contortions to maintain the posture that Trump is always right, and every bit as great as he believes himself to be. One minute they’ll assert that he “says what he means and does that he says.” When that isn’t expedient, they’ll say “he’s only trolling; he just throws things out to start the negotiations; take him seriously but not literally.” So which is it?

    When the hush-money issue came up, Trumpsters said “So what? We all knew he’s a playboy,” etc. – completely missing the point that the story is about Trump trying to hide the truth about himself. Then they quickly turn around to praise his “honesty” regarding McCain. Trump can’t possibly be a hypocrite because “he’s not a politician!” (I actually saw that argument yesterday.)

    Radegunda (400d36)

  242. 241 And the attacks on Melania and Ivanka where what? If he is so
    inordinately self-centered
    thin-skinned
    has to make everything be about him
    behaving like a petulant child
    big messy spectacle
    stubbornly refused to listen
    hurt feelings dictatedhow he responded
    let emotionss get the best of him
    could not rise above
    smeared his own reputation

    Why the need to attack his wife and daughter?

    Talk about “bitchy temper tantrums and out of control emotions” 10 names or insults in one paragraph?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  243. What is the national tragedy, that a career politician who did a noble thing forty years ago, wouldn’t relinquish his post till the very end,

    narciso (d1f714)

  244. 246 Have links to any of these claims Radegunda? Or just abusing more strawmen?

    Specifically would love to see where someone actually said;

    “Trump is always right”
    “every bit as great as he believes himself to be”
    “says what he means and does that he says.”
    “praise his “honesty” regarding McCain”

    Since when is people trying to hide negative qualities or stories about themselves news? It’s human nature. Politicians do it every day without anyone having an issue with it unless you hold unpopular political beliefs or are a conservative, then the double standard kicks in.

    Far more important secrets, actually damaging to our nation and democracy than who Trump sleep with 10-15 years ago. One of whom is testifying today and getting a fraction of the press as this none story.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  245. No doubt the trend is there. I still think running a state government gives a presidential candidate a better understanding of how the job works.

    It’s not so much a matter of academics -which was the catalyst for the research- but the real world data shows it. It’s there. The debate revolved around that very point- does previous job experience in government top business/corporate experience. On that issue, Trump is a disappointment; applying autocratic corporate methodologies to government ops w/o any previous experience of working in government doesn’t appear to work well.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  246. Specifically would love to see where someone actually said;
    “Trump is always right”
    “every bit as great as he believes himself to be”
    “says what he means and does that he says.”
    “praise his “honesty” regarding McCain”

    Well, for starters, you could type “happyfeet” into the search box…

    🙂

    Dave (445e97)

  247. 238 Dustin, are you satisfied with how Government has performed the past 20-30 years? Many people are not. If people are dissatisfied with how government runs why would they set experience running government as a prequalifier? Doesn’t that just guarantee more of the same?

    I’ve spent majority of the last couple decades in Las Vegas and outside Cleveland, both have been locking up Democrats every couple years for 20 years. They are completely corrupt and nothing changes that. Cleveland(Cuyahoga County) even reformed it’s entire form of government and we have a new handful headed to jail.

    Anyone coming up through these systems is an immediate disqualification. You don’t break these cultures and rid the country of them by repeating them or promoting those that feed them. Radical outside reform.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  248. Happys more of a performance artist, like Andy Kauffman alter ego.

    Narciso (0f4556)

  249. 251 Who? I thought once banned said banned ceased to exist?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  250. footsies isn’t banned, as far as I know.

    He’s under moderation until McCain is laid to rest.

    Dave (445e97)

  251. Nate, You should start a blog to bring attention to these important stories you don’t feel are being covered. You could write careful analysis and offer good insights. Over time you could build up a reputation for being thorough, fair, and consistent. If you’re able to attract a decent following you might get some guest bloggers who also write high level commentary. Than instead of complaining about coverage you’d be impacting it. Don’t title it Nate’s Pontifications or people will think you’re being derivative.

    Or you could understand that people are able to read more than one story a day, but that some breaking news requires more information and consideration before any meaningful analysis can be done.

    Or you could just keep mewling like a puppy with hurt feelings. Because people aren’t being nice enough to your crush.

    Time123 (441f53)

  252. I agree happyfeet is some kind of joke. He’s funny if you read him this way, and an insightful criticism. And I don’t mean that as some sort of passive aggressive attack on Happyfeet.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  253. Already did the blogging thing, to time consuming. I could never write down to idiots like you and that’s really where all the fun is.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  254. Let me save our host some time here:

    Already did the blogging thing, to time consuming. I could never write down to idiots like you and that’s really where all the fun is.

    It’s “too”.

    Dave (445e97)

  255. Nate, can I get a link to your blog? Always looking for creative ways to spell.

    Joe (f449d0)

  256. #249, I have a good memory for the worshipful phrases I’ve heard from callers on radio in praise of Trump, including “He says what he means and does what he says” (which I’ve heard in many variations), and “There’s nothing he could do that would make me stop supporting him” (full stop), and “He gave up his great life, and he didn’t have to do it. He did it FOR US!” (i.e. a Christlike sacrifice of himself).

    That Trump has a worshipful view of himself is beyond doubt. That Trumpsters tend to share his view of himself is also clear, starting with the fact that they were not offended by his boast that he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose any supporters — i.e. that they would be loyal to him personally without any moral conditions whatsoever.

    Radegunda (400d36)

  257. Well, for starters, you could type “happyfeet” into the search box

    Dave, I’ve often wondered if happyfeet might be a calculated caricature of the zealous Trumpster, but it’s very hard to locate the dividing line between “this can’t be in earnest” and “this is how Trump fans truly feel about him.”

    Radegunda (400d36)

  258. 261 so all those claims where on the radio where they can never be verified….convenient

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  259. Nate, seriously, can I get a link to your old blog?

    Time123 (441f53)

  260. Now he hates everybody specially assertive women, heck he might be George lopez.

    narciso (d1f714)

  261. I agree with nate that blogging is time consuming. It’s kinda rare to find a good blog authored by someone with a professional day job, because that’s a lot of work.

    Perhaps Nate should consider complaining less about this blog’s choice of topics then. Obviously you’re going to invest your time talking about things you are interested in, and Nate of all people should get it because he gave up on blogging due to the time and effort he didn’t feel like putting into it.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  262. 263, Nate Ogden, how nasty to insinuate that I’m lying about what I’ve distinctly heard, over and over, just because you’ve had your ears plugged. I’ve also read many, many highly emotional reactions to any criticism of Trump in online comment boards, and it’s idiotic to expect that I should archive them all in order to make a point that you would see if you opened your eyes.

    Do you also deny that Trump made the comment about shooting someone on Fifth Avenue? Do you deny the obvious fact that his fans were not offended in any significant measure by the boast that they would throw away basic moral principles to be faithful to him personally?
    Try Dave’s suggestion and just browse through happyfeet’s Trump-worship, which looks a lot like satire but it also looks a lot like what others say clearly in earnest.

    Radegunda (400d36)

  263. Why would they be offended by a joke? When Obama said bring a gun to a knife fight I don’t recall him getting arrested. It’s as I expected, all made up in your head, your fighting strawmen.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  264. I’ve never seen anyone like happy feet and I question rather he is even earnest

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  265. 266 complain less about choice of topics? One comment in a couple years? Maybe two? So basically any disagreement is to much is what your saying.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  266. Lindsey Graham, McCains BFF seems to be contradicting some of the sources in the post above

    steveg (a9dcab)

  267. Nate, you’ve done it several times on this topic. If it’s the first time you’ve done it in 2 years you’re coming out of the gate hot. Can I get a link to your old blog? I really want to read it.

    Time123 (854ffa)

  268. 266 complain less about choice of topics? One comment in a couple years? Maybe two? So basically any disagreement is to much is what your saying.

    Nate Ogden (223c65) — 8/28/2018 @ 1:52 pm

    My bad if you haven’t done so before. I kinda lump all you guys together sometimes.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  269. all you guys? Who am I being lumped with?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  270. Time123 it was a technical industry blog way past anything you could comprehend. I’m afraid you would hurt yourself trying and I couldn’t live with myself if I enabled that.

    Sever times being comment(s) number(s)….?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  271. all you guys? Who am I being lumped with?

    Nate Ogden (223c65) — 8/28/2018 @ 2:23 pm

    Crazed Trump fans who say stuff like ” could never write down to idiots like you and that’s really where all the fun is.” You know, weirdos.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  272. all you guys? Who am I being lumped with?

    Nate Ogden (223c65) — 8/28/2018 @ 2:23 pm

    #Deplorables

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  273. #tehRussianCollusion

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  274. #deplorables, as long as I’m in great company like that thank you.

    Dustin, why would I feed an anonymous troll? That’s Internet 101.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  275. To whom is this directed?

    Why the need to attack his wife and daughter?

    Talk about “bitchy temper tantrums and out of control emotions” 10 names or insults in one paragraph?

    Nate Ogden (223c65) — 8/28/2018 @ 12:15 pm

    Dana (023079)

  276. “Dustin, it’s not communicating differently, it’s intentionally misrepresenting and lying. Typical Trumpistas, also cannot bother to actually spell, punctuate, or capitalize correctly, ESL?

    You’re just better off setting the IQ threshold at 82, it filters the riffraff and makes the experience much improved.”

    Colonel Klink (51d08b) — 8/28/2018 @ 11:30 am

    It wasn’t this one, a slurring of narciso from a Colonel Sphinct… er, Klink.

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  277. 280 It was all cut and paste, I thought it was your comment

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  278. One of McCain’s final symbolic gestures:

    Even in death, John McCain has one final burn planned for two of his biggest foes — Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump — at a moment when much of the world will be watching.
    The Republican senator from Arizona, who planned his own funeral, chose Russian dissident Vladimir Kara-Murza as one of the dignitaries to carry his coffin to the front of the Washington National Cathedral at Saturday’s memorial service.

    Here’s to Mr. Kara-Murza not getting a shot of polonium or Novichok before the weekend.

    Paul Montagu (e7d63b)

  279. that’s all right, general Burkhalter, will be by shortly,

    narciso (d1f714)

  280. Thank you for clarifying, Nate Ogden.

    While I did use those descriptors regarding President Trump, I did not attack Melania, nor did I attack Ivanka. If you read my statement regarding Ivanka, I question possible motives. And the reason for doing so is that she obviously broke with her father regarding McCain, and that is noteworthy. Also, because it turned into such a debacle because President Trump kept feeding the debacle, it’s interesting to me that his daughter would step up to the plate and push back on him. I wondered why. Perhaps she simply expressed what’s in her heart and she is a good and kind person, perhaps it was politically motivated, perhaps she wants to let certain groups know that she does not identify with her father. None of these are outside the realm of reasonable questions to ask. It’s quaint, yet unfortunate that you think making inquiry about a woman’s opinion is the same as attacking them. I assure you women are much stronger than that and can handle being questioned, especially those in politics.. Shrinking violets women are not. As a daughter working in her father’s administration as an aide, and also has the ear of POTUS, Ivanka Trump should be scrutinized just as much as any other politician/person serving in the White House.

    As a reminder, this is what I said of her in the post:

    However, while her father pointedly ignored Karl’s question, Ivanka Trump took time to school her father and honor McCain

    This is what I asked in the comments section:

    So did Ivanka Trump step in to try to minimize the damage done by her father, or is she just being looking ahead to her own political future and shrewdly showing the country she doesn’t hold his same view in what has turned out to be a big miserable debacle??

    Dana (023079) — 8/27/2018 @ 4:47 pm

    Neither are attacks on Ivanka Trump. And lease note that I did not even mention Melania Trump in the post or in the comments, in spite of your insinuation that I had.

    Dana (023079)

  281. @241 Dana — I wanted to give that comment of yours a standing ovation. Of course, your wisdom is absolutely lost on the Trump fanboys. But thank you for giving a voice to my thoughts.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  282. P.S. Nate Ogden,

    I hope you don’t take my politely measured explanation and response to your “insinuations,” as a “bitchy temper tantrum”. Because I wouldn’t want to upset you any further. But just know, I can do a full-throttle, motherf*ucking bitchy attack like nobody’s business, if you’d like to see what one really looks like.

    Dana (023079)

  283. Sorry for not checking better and being more clear, didn’t mean to say the Melanina comments were yours, those were made by others. One calling her a prostitute and the other a gold digger.

    In regards to Ivanka I think it’s been pretty clear since the campaign she doesn’t share her father’s politics. Immigration, family leave, and other issues she has disagreed with his positions. She’s very much a NYC Democrat.

    “woman’s opinion is the same as attacking them.” depending on your intent and tone it frequently is. Google mansplaining then reconsider your blanket statement. Not to forget the defective sexism claims when asking certain women a question.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  284. Ivanka honestly means well, but she still hasn’t figured out there is no compromising with the media,the only presidential offspring they accept would be patti davis or ron Reagan mold, scarlet Johannsen, still a fave, has brought the point home,

    narciso (d1f714)

  285. Is it possible to question or debate a never trumper without being called upset whiny or crybaby? Did you all belong to the same Alinsky debate club?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  286. There is no doubt Trump should’ve done the right thing and respectfully treated all of the ceremony associated with McCain’s passing. Anything less is indefensible.

    By the same token, McCain went out of his way to show disrespect to the office of POTUS by asking Trump to stay away. Some people will excuse that with some “that’s just McCain being maverick” horsestuff.

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  287. Nate Ogden, perhaps unlike you, I am an equal-opportunity scrutinizer. I don’t need to be told to google anything or told to reconsider my statement. Actually, I don’t need you to tell me anything, lest a thunderous (and unattractive) bitch attack rain down on you.

    Dana (023079)

  288. 286 just one funny recent examples

    Pelosi calls questions about her leadership ‘sexist’

    Hillary and her supporters played that card ad nauseum

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  289. What’s unattractive about a passionate trap word attack? Do you have that same power as Pat to use words others can’t?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  290. @288, 293

    ¡Ay, caramba!

    Dave (445e97)

  291. Except trumps interest is not about Mccain, he is the past, in fact he only drew his ire because of dismissal of the concerns of those infrequent and dissolutioned voters, hence the focus on the trade issue and economy.

    narciso (d1f714)

  292. Is it possible to question or debate a never trumper without being called upset whiny or crybaby? Did you all belong to the same Alinsky debate club?

    I’m a Never Trumper, and I’ve never called you whiny or a crybaby. If I do in the future, it’s because you are whining, and I’ll even show you how you’re being whiny.

    Just let me savor the irony of you saying all Never Trumpers use ad hominem and then using an ad hominem on them. A little self-awareness goes a long way.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  293. If I had a Twitter handle, it would be “IncomingBitchyDana” or “TemperTantrumBitch”

    Dana (023079)

  294. 298 I’m far from an English major, I know, you never would have guessed that, but I think I said;

    “debate a never trumper”

    Where did those ll come from? A never Trumper is not any or all never trumpers.

    How’s that tofu irony?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  295. Trump warns evangelicals of ‘violence’ if GOP loses in the midterms

    Today Trump told evangelical leaders that they will lose the right to say “Merry Christmas” (which Trump claims he won for them) if they do not support him in the midterm elections:

    “You’re one election away from losing everything that you’ve gotten. Little thing: Merry Christmas, right? You couldn’t say ‘Merry Christmas.’ “

    He also called it “a referendum on your religion” and warned ominously of violence:

    “This November 6 election is very much a referendum on not only me, it’s a referendum on your religion … It’s not a question of like or dislike, it’s a question that they will overturn everything that we’ve done and they will do it quickly and violently. And violently. There is violence.”

    Dave (445e97)

  296. Also in that speech, Trump just made s**t up.

    In a closed-door meeting with evangelical leaders Monday night, President Donald Trump repeated his debunked claim that he had gotten “rid of” a law forbidding churches and charitable organizations from endorsing political candidates, according to recorded excerpts reviewed by NBC News.
    In fact, the law remains on the books, after efforts to kill it in Congress last year failed.

    When a guy peels off falsehoods and misleading statements at a rate of over 7½ a day while in office, how does one decide whether his next words are going to be truthful or not.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  297. Missed part of the quote Dave, purely accidental I’m sure.

    “. There is violence. When you look at Antifa — these are violent people,”

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  298. I didn’t get the gist of that either Dave. If the Democrats win the house, then antifa is going to get violent? Wouldn’t that be their side? If they’re violent thugs, aren’t they going to do thuggery, whichever side wins, and more if their side loses.

    I know, I’m attempting to find logic in a Trump sentence, that is a losing proposition. I might as well try to translate a cat.

    Colonel Klink (8cf599)

  299. How many does this make that you told today Paul?

    “In May 2017, Trump signed an executive order that purported to ease enforcement of the Johnson Amendment. But experts — and the American Civil Liberties Union, which opposes repeal of the provision — say the Trump order was basically toothless.”

    You can disagree with how effective his EO is but I don’t believe it’s been challenged to date.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  300. 304 ANTIFA will be emboldened if they don’t think there will be consequences. Like black Panthers at Philly polling place or ANTIFA in CA currently.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  301. How many does this make that you told today Paul?

    None, smearboy. A toothless EO did nothing toward “getting rid of” the Johnson Amendment. His words.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  302. I didn’t get the gist of that either Dave. If the Democrats win the house, then antifa is going to get violent? Wouldn’t that be their side? If they’re violent thugs, aren’t they going to do thuggery, whichever side wins, and more if their side loses.

    Right, and Democrat control of the House should not prevent a Great Leader like Donald Trump from carrying out his sworn duty to uphold the laws either, would it?

    After all, he promised that crime and violence would end on January 20, 2017.

    Dave (445e97)

  303. When did Trump say the EO did nothing? Obama has had some amazingly resilient and effective EOs counter to actual law.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  304. (mistakenly posted in the other thread – sorry)
    The Law & Order President strikes again:

    Crack dealer’s defense lawyer to jury: The president says prosecutions that use evidence from cooperating witnesses can’t be trusted

    The defense lawyer only got a few words into his attempt to point out President Trump’s “flipper” remarks to the jury before the prosecutors objected and the judge (an *Obama* appointee, Narciso!) told him to STFU.

    Dave (445e97)

  305. “Facts First”

    THIS… is cnn

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  306. “Journolism Dies in teh Amazon”

    —- Washington Post

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  307. If he had actually got rid of it with his EO, then there shouldn’t have been subsequent efforts to get rid of it in Congress, because it would’ve been gotten rid of, but there were subsequent efforts (which also failed) to get rid of it, and hardcore Trumpalistas intend to try it again next fiscal year.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  308. #RussianIllusion

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  309. ChinaChinaChinaChinaChinaChina

    mg (456edd)

  310. Col. lmao @ 312

    mg (456edd)

  311. Like Edwin starr might have put it, ‘what is it good for’ why is the aclu the arbiter of what speech is allowed.

    Narciso (369281)

  312. IF the single-sourced Intelligence is true and the Chinese accessed and read Hillary Clinton’s emails for 4 years and IF the story of Sen. Feinstein’s 20 year employment of a Chinese spy is true as it appears to be… well, there’s your story, Democrats and various underlings.

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  313. #ChineseCollusion #NeverTrumpPowerDrinkCreamofSumYungGuy

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  314. Drink deeply, oh NeverTrumpinistas!

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  315. > Are we better off for having Trump as our president, versus any other GOP candidate from 2016? What specific result can I look at and be pleased, as someone whose primary interests are a balanced budget, national security, and transparent, ethical government?

    As someone who is interested in transparent ethical government — this government looks set to be the least ethical of my lifetime, by far. (That’s not a statement of admiration about any other government, it’s a statement of horror at this one).

    But that’s what I expected, and since that’s what I think anyone who honestly assessed Trump’s time in business *should have* expected, it’s what I think the American people actually want —- corruption is fine as long as it’s carried out by someone who sings the right notes of tribal allegiance.

    i probably shouldn’t be talking politics; the spirit of the age is making it hard for me to overcome bitterness and anger, out of frustration. Substantial elements on both sides no longer believe in a common good, and substantial elements on both sides no longer seem to believe in liberal democracy. It feels like late 1848.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  316. 319 they can’t afford for it to be true. Based on their demands to punish Russia if China did those we should freeze all trade with them immediately. China has pretty much been given a free pass for all their crimes till now.

    Can you imagine the dirt they had to hold over Hillary if she won.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  317. Aphrael how are you measuring ethicalness?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  318. Overcome your bitterness and anger with laughter, aphrael!!!

    https://twitter.com/MarkDice/status/1034171657475186688

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  319. I think this investigation has been in need of a good x ray burst.

    https://themarketswork.com/2018/08/28/bruce-ohr-is-creating-a-link-for-us/

    Narciso (369281)

  320. 314 Paul, I disagree with your logic there, since Obama wrote his DACA EO why has Congress taken up immigration?

    There were numerous ACA EOs and Congress still takes up ACA.

    Trump has implemented an EO protecting them from the law. That EO in theory could be canceled. Your attack is disingenuous at best.

    For someone so supposedly horrible it was weak, you should do better. Now call me some names and dismiss a valid argument cause you can’t win on merit.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  321. Melania or not Melania?

    DRJ (15874d)

  322. When did CNN hire George Castansa?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  323. Haiku — funny you should mention Sen. Feinstein.

    I don’t like her much. Of the 9 times I’ve had the opportunity to vote for or against her, I’ve only voted for her four times (92 primary and general, 94 general, 06 general). I may vote for her in the general; while I wish she would go away, Kevin de Leon seems to be going out of his way to convince me that he’s angling to lead the Democratic party equivalent to the Freedom Caucus, and that’s not going to be good for the country.

    I wasn’t in California in 2012, so of course I didn’t vote for her then.

    I voted for her in 2006, when she was running against Dick Mountjoy, a man who had been my state legislator when I first became interested in politics and whom I had disliked at that point for close to twenty years.

    In 2000, I voted for the Republican running against her — a social liberal fiscal conservative who *at that time* was more liberal on gay rights than she was. His party abandoned him because he was too liberal for them, and he got crushed in the election.

    In 1994, I voted for her; her opponent was a man who had (a) moved to California from Texas less than two years before he ran for the House, and (b) was running for the Senate after a single term in the House. He was a carpetbagger, and he deserved to be rejected by the voters. (I would not have voted for Clinton in New York in 2000, for the exact same reason).

    Overall, the Republicans have done a terrible job of running against her.

    * 1992: incumbent appointed by the Governor to fill out the rest of Cranston’s term; this was a reasonable candidate who lost due to the overall political environment of that year. (38%)
    * 1994: carpetbagger who nonetheless came closer than anyone else to unseating her. (45%)
    * 2000: social liberal whom the party refused to support in the general election (37%)
    * 2006: mid-list state legislator with little charisma and no statewide name recognition (35%)
    * 2012: literally unknown to anyone charity executive who got 12% in the jungle primary and 35% in the general election despite the fact that nobody had heard her name before the election began
    * 2018: shut out in the jungle primary

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  324. Can you think of someone they could have ran that would have beat her? What type of candidate would stack up beat against her?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  325. DRJ @ 328. No, that is definitely not Melania. But who said it was in the first place?

    This is not Melania, either.

    nk (dbc370)

  326. Nate — if they’d picked someone who had a similar set of political and economic views to Huffington in 1994, rather than picking Huffington, he would have stood a chance. I mean: she lost when she ran for Governor in 1990, so running for re-election in a nonpresidential election year, against someone whose political profile was similar to Wilson’s, would have been a competitive race.

    I think if the party had gotten full bore behind Campbell in 2000, instead of abandoning him, he could have run.

    In modern times, it’s hard to imagine, but that’s because the statewide Republican party — Schwarzenegger aside — has been nonfunctional since 1998. It’s literally true that other than Schwarzenegger and Poizner, no Republican has won election a statewide office since the 1998 elections (Schwarzenegger appointed some but they all lost re-election) … and Poizner is running for his old job this year, not as a Republican, because he has correctly calculated that he can win as a nonpartisan candidate but he can’t as a Republican.

    An anti-tax, low-regulation, pro-local-control Republican party could have been successful if it had accepted the general social consensus on gay rights (the party remained opposed to Domestic Partnerships throughout the 2000s), abortion, and environmental protection, and if it had gone out of its way to forge alliances with hispanics. It didn’t, and it’s now rendered itself unelectable at the statewide level, most likely for decades.

    Feinstein is a skilled politician who for a long time was the most popular politician in California, but the Republicans in a lot of way handed her that title by failing to recognize how the culture of the state was shifting and keep up with it.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  327. I lived there off and on finally moving for good in 2002 and shutting down business there in 2005 or so. It was bad when I left and didn’t see any chance of it getting better, and that was the OC. Hard to imagine what could have stopped the decline. Use to have a lot of government clients, started losing them due to union influence and could see the writing on the wall.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  328. Was the party strong enough to carry Campbell in 2000, this was before Massachusetts decided to be the conscience of the nation.
    Other than Pete Wilson’s victory in 94, where was the anti Hispanic animus, the courts did snuff out prop 187, because some notions are crimethink.

    Narciso (369281)

  329. For someone so supposedly horrible it was weak, you should do better. Now call me some names and dismiss a valid argument cause you can’t win on merit.

    Since you’ve engaged in personal attacks against me here and in multiple previous threads, your desire to “question or debate a never trumper” is not credible or believable, especially after communicating this: “I could never write down to idiots like you and that’s really where all the fun is.” And now you that you’ve more than well established your bad faith and intellectual dishonesty, I suggest you stop wasting your time and mine.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  330. “debate a never trumper”

    Where did those ll come from? A never Trumper is not any or all never trumpers.

    That quote was from YOU, back at comment #291. Did you forget what you had typed just 39 minutes earlier?

    Chuck Bartowski (211c17)

  331. I didn’t say anti-hispanic animus. I said that they needed to go out of their way to forge alliances and I’ll add that they needed to go out of their way to recruit from within the hispanic community. They didn’t do that.

    2000 was a Presidential election year, so pushing Campbell through would have been harder than in 1994, but I think they still — just barely — had enough clout to pull it off. They didn’t bother trying.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  332. #322, aphrael, if you actually think the Trump Administration looks set to be the least ethical of your lifetime, then how do you defend your opinion in light of the bloody and corrupt Administrations of Lyndon Johnson, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama?

    All 3 of which left dead bodies scattered helter-skelter in their wake, from JFK, to the boys on the railroad tracks, to Vince Foster, to Brian Terry, to Farrakhan’s chior director, to our Ambassador to Lybia and the security team in Benghazi, to Andrew Breitbart, to Seth Rich, to name just the tip of the deadly iceburg lurking below the surface of Democrat “ethics.”

    ropelight (03e848)

  333. Yes the California Republican party is like one of those Dr. Doolittle creatures.

    Narciso (369281)

  334. Talk about “bitchy temper tantrums and out of control emotions” 10 names or insults in one paragraph?

    Nate Ogden,

    The next comment you leave on this site will apologize to Dana for that comment. It will be a sincere apology that convinces me and her. Otherwise you have left your last comment here.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  335. 330… i’ve lived in California for almost my entire life, aphrael. Grew up (as much as I will, lol) in OC and watched in grow to a point where NorCal seemed to be a better choice, so I used a promotion at work to move my wife and two very young sons up north. Always considered myself a Republican – hey, I lived behind the Orange Curtain – but I didn’t have much of an interest in politics until my children were approaching their teen years. From what I’ve seen and experienced, I don’t think the situation in this state will improve until things are burnt to the ground. Which is a shame, given the beauty and the potential for a return to greatness. My wife and I are struggling with the decision to move out of state when I decide to retire.

    I was just sitting in our pool looking up at the top of the redwoods on our fence line swaying in a gentle breeze, thinking how wonderful life is and how thankful I am for my family and friends. As crappy as Cali can be, we are blessed to be Americans.

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  336. Good. Thank you.

    DRJ (15874d)

  337. Never have 2 professions, attorneys and journalists, been fighting it out to find out which one is beneath whale poop.

    mg (148243)

  338. Meanwhile at the ranch, a congressman who waa outspent prodiguously and a African American mayor of Tallahassee with practically no money made it to the top of the heap, toppling bib grahams

    Narciso (369281)

  339. Good stuff, Col.

    mg (148243)

  340. So 4 out of cnn’s last 5 Trump “bombshell” stories they’ve had to recant?

    https://twitter.com/MarkDice/status/1034171657475186688

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  341. Daughter who outspent him 6/1, Alan Grayson other brother 13/1

    Narciso (369281)

  342. Patrick, I’ve seen arrogant hyperpartisan douchebags like Nate before, except most of those pukes are liberals. They don’t just stop* at policy disagreement, they typically take the next step and try to impugn the other person’s character which, to me, speaks to the impugner’s character. And I’ve never seen a single one change his or her behavior, so you can probably tell what I would recommend, for the sake of general civility.
    * In Nate’s case with me, he didn’t even start.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  343. Gillum was backed by father time Bernie Sanders.

    Please civility has been absent in only one partisan dirextion.

    Narciso (369281)

  344. I would never use such language, I would suggest emphasis be put elsewhere, this blog used to be capable of that.

    Narciso (369281)

  345. Well hell,CNN gave Trump the oxygen he needed during the primaries, this guy is the textbook PenceIsWorse whispered. Say what you will about Florida, but the Ohio of the 2020s outdid even itself with this crap.

    urbanleftbehind (2b82d0)

  346. I mention him, because he was considered an authority, on what I have no idea, they have bandaids tale on the membrane.

    Narciso (369281)

  347. 130 feet want there a film with Webbie Gibson in it, along those lines

    narciso (d1f714)

  348. The Trumper doubled down in moderation. Shocking I know. Another one bites the dust.

    Patterico (c39be0)

  349. 301.Trump warns evangelicals of ‘violence’ if GOP loses in the midterms

    And if he’s impeached, we’ll all go broke.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  350. Bye Nate!

    Patterico (c39be0)

  351. That was bad, but the Nazi love on the Cernovich thread is about as bad as I’ve seen here. Nothing worse than Nazi revisionists.

    Colonel Klink (aba39c)

  352. Florida rino stampeded by MAGA candidate. Rumor has it rinos will be on Team Burnee come November.

    mg (456edd)

  353. I think putnam had the same advisers as job.

    narciso (d1f714)

  354. narciso- The polls were not even close in Florida. Desantis was only supposed to have 41% of the vote. He ended up with 56%.
    Larry Sabato is another loser who has no clue in polls.

    mg (456edd)

  355. 4% growth projected. MAGA is happening. rinos will be backing commies in November.

    mg (148243)

  356. They have a plate of omelet on their face, but they will persist.

    narciso (d1f714)

  357. Arpaio had almost as much as ward, but combined got 48 v. 51 for McSally

    urbanleftbehind (2b82d0)

  358. I’ll say this, Patrick. You know there’s a problem with a commenter when he pisses off both DRJ and Dana, two of the nicest I’ve run across. I wish I had their patience and slowness-to-anger.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  359. I’ve thought such language unnecessary, then again pointing out that a corrupt procurator is a,corrupt procurator can also be an ceiling offense.

    Narciso (ceb6f7)

  360. I wouldn’t worry about FL mg, all one needs to do is trick the opposition into saying “A state income tax”, and their less unity in the black electorate (more multiillionaire athletes, more West Indians) than in neighboring GA.

    urbanleftbehind (2b82d0)

  361. Oh hold my beer, gillum as little as I heard from him struck the most extreme position, he’s also under investigation by the bureau

    Narciso (ceb6f7)

  362. You think he made a deal…bust down Graham, and the newer Feds will go easy on you?

    urbanleftbehind (2b82d0)

  363. Well he’s smarter than morning joke;

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.tallahassee.com/amp/1131181002

    Narciso (ceb6f7)

  364. 370… lefties all seem to have “get out of jail free” cards

    Colonel Haiku (b35858)

  365. Check out this legendary ingrate:

    https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/29/sarah-palin-loyal-running-mate-excluded-from-john-mccains-funeral/

    “Former Alaska governor Sarah Palin, who was Sen. John McCain (R-AZ)’s running mate in the 2008 presidential election, has been excluded from his funeral.

    Breitbart News has independently confirmed an earlier report in People magazine, which reported that Palin was not sent an invitation, and was told through intermediaries to stay away from the ceremony.”

    The one person who actually invigorated the base’s interest in his campaign, did a far better job debating Biden than Paul Ryan ever did, and kept his failure from being a complete blowout, and he disinvites her, in a final, petty act of screwing over his supporters.

    Let me remind everyone once again: Real heroism is a mindset that proves itself throughout your life, not something gained from a single act that definitely wasn’t embellished or exaggerated in any way that provided cover for a disreputable and indistinguished later career.

    Steppe Nomad (1231f6)

  366. Everything #NeverTrumpers pretend to hate about Trump they appreciated in McCain, part the zillionth:

    https://people.com/politics/lindsey-graham-tearfully-honors-john-mccain/

    ““The more he humiliated you, the more he liked you. In that regard, I was well served,” Graham continued after revealing McCain had given him the nickname, “Lil’ jerk.””

    Sure he wasn’t the only one!

    Steppe Nomad (aa87a3)

  367. McCain didn’t properly vet her before picking her, so it does seem petty that he would not invite her to his funeral. Classic McCain.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  368. The BEST thing McCain ever did for America was DIE.

    Kevin Stroup (4ed895)

  369. @377. See #52:

    The battles are over.
    The man is dead.
    We honor his memory.
    We salute his service.
    We dip the colors.
    We bury his remains.

    End of story. And when Trump croaks, we’ll follow the same drill. And for the same, singular reason:

    “Captain Sobel, we salute the rank, not the man.” – Dick Winters [Damian Lewis] ‘Band of Brothers,’ HBO TV, 2001

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  370. I am guessing Mccain will have take plenty of shots at our president from under cover.

    mg (148243)

  371. 86 have

    mg (148243)

  372. U.S. Code for flying U.S. Flag at half staff for members of congress; § 7. Position and manner of display: “…a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. “. “(3) the term ”Member of Congress” means a Senator, a Representative, a Delegate, or the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico.” So what’s the problem with what Pres. Trump did?? Oh, HE did it. If it would have been a demoncrat president it would have been fine and lauded.

    kl (9260b4)

  373. Now that that’s all over
    After being constantly inundated with praise for John McCain last week, I’m kind of glad that’s out of the news. Someone should probably go to Annapolis and see if the stone has been rolled away and make sure he’s still there.

    http://www.saysuncle.com/2018/09/06/now-that-thats-all-over/

    nk (dbc370)

  374. What if he’s not…although for Dem voting in a hyper strict voting state, an embalmed head and thumb are likely all that’s needed.

    urbanleftbehind (c30065)


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