Patterico's Pontifications

8/25/2018

RIP John McCain

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 5:56 pm



Condolences to his family and friends.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

116 Responses to “RIP John McCain”

  1. Rest in peace.

    DRJ (15874d)

  2. Thank you, John, for your extraordinary sacrifice that we may be free.

    Rest in Peace.

    Ed from SFV (6d42fa)

  3. As in other threads, I am eternally surprised at how easily some people spread vitriol not simply to a deceased person, but to his family and friends. Ugh.

    On the other hand, I am delighted to join with folks here in expressing condolences over this loss to Senator McCain’s family and friends. It is possible, as I wrote in another thread, to disagree with a person and mourn their passing.

    And regardless of political differences or policy disagreements, Senator McCain was a true American hero who merits our respect at his passing. His time in Hanoi earns his that, and far more.

    Simon Jester (c2dcde)

  4. John McCain believed in America and in its mission in the world. He fought for those things as he was given the light to see them. Many of us disagreed from time to time, but we didn’t doubt he was sincere. Few politicians measure up to John’s integrity or honor. A rare man.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  5. Rest in peace.

    felipe (023cc9)

  6. I surely hope that isn’t a tuxedoed Tom Hayden when you open google…

    RIP McCain.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  7. No… it’s Leonard Bernstein… not quite as bad but almost as clueless.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  8. My mother told me, “If you can’t say anythign nice, don’t say anything at all.”

    …………………………..

    Gryph (08c844)

  9. Most appropriate comparison:

    https://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/status/1033518941862342658

    “David Begnaud

    Verified account

    @DavidBegnaud
    Follow Follow @DavidBegnaud
    More
    My colleague @stevenportnoy notes a coincidence:

    Senator Ted Kennedy died on this day in 2009 after battling brain cancer.

    John McCain was also fighting brain cancer.

    2 so called “lions of the senate” died after battling the same disease, 9 years apart.”

    Essence Thief (d3c061)

  10. McCain.

    Fine-Gold.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pix6pJUW5-s

    R.I.P.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  11. As a young man, he dealt with a horrible experience as a POW with far more grace and dignity than I probably would have.

    The left found him useful as a foil to GW Bush, then absolutely dumped on him when he dared to stand in the way of the ascent of The One, then took him back into their good graces once he started feuding with Donald Trump. He deserved better than to be used as a political cudgel in that manner. May he reap his eternal reward, and may he be greeted by his maker with “Well done, my son.”

    JVW (42615e)

  12. RIP. John McCain was a great American, and probably a closer personification to Reagan than any other 21st century politician.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  13. Our country has lost a man who served her and sacrificed for her with honor. May he rest in peace and may God comfort his loved ones.

    Stu707 (e2fb68)

  14. De-lurking for just long enough to make an observation.

    Observation follows:

    If you come on a thread like this just to say something to the effect of “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all,” and then if you follow that up by pointedly not saying anything else, then you have — no matter how strenuously you might protest — said something that isn’t nice. Because let’s face it, everyone knows what you mean. And you know they do. You meant them to know it. That’s why you phrased things the way you did. You might more profitably have lived out the actual meaning of your words, and simply not said anything. We would never know the goodness of what you had done. But God would.

    Here endeth the observation.

    Rest in peace, Senator McCain.

    Re-lurking…

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  15. Demosthenes,

    I thought exactly the same thing.

    Patterico (5de152)

  16. I pray that he accepted Christ into his heart and asked forgiveness of his sins. May his family accept condolences on their loss and he rest in peace.

    NJRob (b00189)

  17. probably a closer personification to Reagan than any other 21st century politician.

    Here I have to disagree. Reagan was a strategist, McCain was a tactician. Reagan moved the world from socialist to capitalist, and national to global. His successors have spent most of their time undoing that and/or fracking it up. McCain had no such ambitions.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  18. President Trump sent condolences to the family. IMHO it’s unwise for Patterico to draw conclusions from something Trump didn’t do or didn’t say.

    David in Cal (0d5a1d)

  19. I echo DRJ. It is my heartiest wish that John McCain RIP. One more time. Attention to the following

    for service as set forth in the following

    CITATION:

    For heroism while participating in aerial flight 26 October 1967 in North Vietnam. While attacking the thermal power plant in Hanoi, Commander (then Lieutenant Commander) McCain, despite extremely heavy and accurate antiaircraft fire and more than fifteen surface-to-air missiles in the air, pursued the attack until his aircraft was hit by enemy antiaircraft fire. Although his aircraft was severely damaged, he continued his bomb delivery pass and released his bombs on the target. When his aircraft would not recover from the dive, Commander McCain was forced to eject over the target. By his exceptional courage, superb airmanship, and total devotion to duty, Commander McCain reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the United Suites Naval Service.

    For the President,
    J. William Middendorf

    This is how I choose to remember the man.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  20. President Trump sent condolences to the family. IMHO it’s unwise for Patterico to draw conclusions from something Trump didn’t do or didn’t say.

    Where did I do that?

    Patterico (5de152)

  21. Thank you, John McCain.

    Dave (445e97)

  22. Az gov. douche bag is already asking his money patrons the koch brothers who he should pick. Cindy mccain is a player as she owns the budwiser distributorship for arizona. the line forms behind them at the governors door!

    wendell (3590dd)

  23. @18.President Trump sent condolences to the family. – David in Cal

    David in Cal: You’re kidding, aren’t you, [insert name here.]

    He tweeted this piece of boilerplate text likely lifted from a sympathy card sold at a Bedminster CVS:

    “My deepest sympathies and respect go out to the family of [insert name here.] Our hearts and prayers are with you!”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  24. Thank you, John McCain.
    Dave (445e97) — 8/25/2018 @ 11:18 pm

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  25. Thank you, I am forced to sound like broken record so let me take a break.

    http://acepilots.com/korea_hudner.html

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  26. Where did I do that?

    Never mind. It’s just unwise, Citizen.

    Kevin M (3c17a4)

  27. Here I have to disagree. Reagan was a strategist, McCain was a tactician.

    Maybe so. Had he actually become president, we would’ve had a better idea.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  28. This was my endorsement of him a decade ago. I was strongly on the anti side, but I switched in 2008 and I don’t regret it for a minute, although he should’ve picked someone else for VP.
    http://www.theforvm*dot*org/diary/bird-dog/i-used-to-be-strongly-anti-mccain (I have to do the *dot* so the link won’t get stuck in moderation).

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  29. And yet the way he behaved in that episode showed he had no honor, and red state didn’t distinguish itself either.

    Narciso (d5f237)

  30. This was my endorsement of him a decade ago. I was strongly on the anti side, but I switched in 2008 and I don’t regret it for a minute, although he should’ve picked someone else for VP.

    In light of recent events, I am kind of ashamed to say that I went into 2008 backing … Rudy.

    Not so much because of his policies (although he was strongly in favor winning the war, which was the most important thing to me), but because I thought he’d have the best chance in the general election.

    Of course, Rudy’s 2008 primary campaign was the biggest facepalm in history. Leading in the national polls, he thought he just ignore all the early states, capture Florida and then start winning on Super Tuesday. He ended up losing Florida (winner-take-all) and folding.

    I had no problem supporting McCain after that.

    Although she has since fallen far, I liked Palin when McCain chose her. As the legendary chess grandmaster Capablanca once said: “There are no wrong moves from a losing position.”

    Dave (445e97)

  31. RIP Neil Simon

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  32. RIP Neil Simon

    Remember the days when Broadway plays were there to entertain you and make you laugh, rather than hector you with trendy left-wing politics?

    JVW (42615e)

  33. I liked Rudy, too, and Palin.

    DRJ (15874d)

  34. Remember the days when Broadway plays were there to entertain you and make you laugh, rather than hector you with trendy left-wing politics?

    Arthur Miller was unavailable for comment…

    Dave (445e97)

  35. I’ve only seen Neil Simon’s few, best-known works, but those were amazing.

    The Odd Couple, Barefoot in the Park and The Out-of-Towners. I remember laughing so hard at the latter that it hurt.

    Dave (445e97)

  36. Yes but Arthur Miller didn’t do comedy

    There were a couple that became film’s with Matthew broderick

    Narciso (ad700c)

  37. Biloxi Blues was as good as anything he did.

    harkin (c0421f)

  38. Rudy and Newt were sort of the right guy to take on Obama, they both sort of ran against “black” (Dinkins, CWA/for welfare reform) and won in 1993/94.

    urbanleftbehind (2b82d0)

  39. Yes that one, also Brighton beach memoirs.

    Narciso (ad700c)

  40. “My father, United States Senator John McCain III, departed this life today,” McCain began.

    “I was with my father at his end, as he was with me at my beginning. In the thirty-three years we shared together, he raised me, taught me, corrected me, comforted me, encouraged me, and supported me in all things,” McCain wrote in her statement, which garnered over 16,000 retweets and 73,000 likes in just over 30 minutes. “He loved me, and I loved him. He taught me how to live. His love and his care, ever present, always unfailing, took me from a girl to a woman — and he showed me what it is to be a man.”

    All that I am is thanks to him. Now that he is gone, the task of my lifetime is to live up to his example, his expectations, and his love,” McCain continued.

    The family of the six-term U.S. senator announced on Friday that he had decided to end treatment in his battle against brain cancer, which he had fought against for over a year.

    “My father’s passing comes with sorrow and grief for me, my mother, for my brothers, and for my sisters. He was a great fire who burned bright, and we lived in his light and warmth for so very long,” McCain continued. “We know that his flame lives on, in each of us. The days and years to come will not be the same without my dad — but they will be good days, filled with life and love, because of the example he lived for us.”

    “My father is gone, and I miss him as only an adoring daughter can,” McCain concluded. “But in this loss, and in this sorrow, I take comfort in this: John McCain, hero of the republic and to his little girl, wakes today to something more glorious than anything on this earth. Today the warrior enters his true and eternal life, greeted by those who have gone before him, rising to meet the Author of All Things.”

    “‘The dream is ended: this is the morning.'”

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/35033/meghan-mccains-statement-her-fathers-passing-goes-ryan-saavedra

    harkin (c0421f)

  41. Palin killed for me (I did vote Romney 4 yrs later), I actually would have went odd couple (RIP N. Simon) and picked Hunter Sr.

    urbanleftbehind (2b82d0)

  42. Brighton Beach, with proto-Ross Geller Jonatan Silverman, as film was overwrought with junior high innuendo and would have been at home as a Netflix series

    urbanleftbehind (2b82d0)

  43. R.I.P. Neil Simon

    “My deepest sympathies and respect go out to the family of [insert name here: Neil Simon.] Our hearts and prayers are with you!”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  44. DCSCA, I’m curious: Did Helsinki change your mind about Trump, or were you only pretending to support him before then?

    DRJ (15874d)

  45. DCSCA has mocked Trump continuously since I returned here in early 2017.

    Dave (445e97)

  46. Broderick was probably doing the freshman at that time. The enquirer published all sorts of garbage when she was picked, including about her son

    Narciso (ad700c)

  47. If I had to guess, I’d say DCSCA is a Democrat, in fact.

    Dave (445e97)

  48. I thought he was a New York Democrat, too, but I think DCSCA said he is a Rockefeller Republican.

    DRJ (15874d)

  49. I always admired McCain for the way he handled the terrible dirty political trick about his daughter Bridget. Adopting her was a kind thing to do and his opponents used her to hurt him. Using a child that way offended me the most because McCain couldn’t defend himself without dragging her into the limelight, something he would not do. It was noble to put concern for her above his political interests.

    DRJ (15874d)

  50. @44. DRJ, backing Trump was purely strategic from my POV; to effectively neuter the modern conservative movement. The price was the courts- [which isn’t so bad, as the lifers tend to be loyal to the rule of law in the end, anyway.] That doesn’t mean one has to like Trump personally. And as we know, the nation prefers to be entertained rather than governed in this era– and it’s been a helluva show. He likes to be seen as a ‘winner,’ too. So if/when the House flips he’ll cut deals w/Dems- as long as there’s a win to tweet about. And even if they try to impeach him, the Senate won’t convict him for paying off bimbos and he’ll wear that as a win as well. However, if Mueller discovers direct evidence of Russian conspiracy, the outcome may be different.

    But the Helsinki performance -to be kind- was disturbing. And unforgivably revealing. In the end, suspect Mueller’s going to expose evidence that after Trump went belly-up in the late 80s-early 90s, and NY/Wall St.,/U.S. financial institutions refused to extend him credit and lend him any more money, he found financing from Russian oligarch sources chummy w/Vlad, laundered though overseas banks, eager to leverage an easy mark like Trump. Pee-pee tape or not, they likely have him by the fiscal short hairs. It’s the only explanation for his steadfast fawning over Putin.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  51. Thanks, DCSCA, to me that is consistent with things you said here in the past. Are libertarians part of the modern conservative movement? Other than Cruz, who is?

    DRJ (15874d)

  52. By the way, I agree with your analysis but I obviously don’t side with Rockefeller Republicans vs conservatives. You’re New York, I’m Texan/the West, and our differences could be as simple as our backgrounds. But we do have common ground sometimes, as I know you recall.

    DRJ (15874d)

  53. Speaking of adopting a child from a “s**thole country”, David French has a sad and moving piece on the his experiences following the adoption of his daughter from Ethiopia, and the reactions from both left and right are pathetic.

    Next, in 2013, Kathryn Joyce, a writer and journalist who studies and reports on American Evangelical Christianity published a book called The Child Catchers: Rescue, Trafficking, and the New Gospel of Adoption. It was a blistering attack on the Evangelical adoption movement, claiming the adoption industry was rife with corruption and that Evangelicals were in the grips of an ominous “orphan fever” that was motivated primarily by a desire to evangelize orphan children. The book received significant coverage. Joyce wrote essays in the New York Times Sunday Review, and Mother Jones. She was interviewed on NPR’s Fresh Air.
    We quickly discovered that if you’re the white parents of an adopted black child, and you’re in the public eye at all, men and women will viciously criticize you for having the audacity to believe that you can raise your kid. At times, the criticism was direct and personal—most of it directed at my wife. It was one thing to face hostile comments on blogs or random tweets. It was another to face angry direct messages and sometimes-tense personal encounters in public. Family and friends were aghast. Look at what the left does and says to loving families, we remarked to each other. Look at what they believe about faithful Christians.
    Then, sometime around the summer of 2015, we began to notice a shift. The attacks on our family came less and less from the left, and increasingly from the alt-right—a vicious movement of Trump-supporting white nationalists who loathe multiracial families. They despise international adoption. They call it “race-cucking your family” or “raising the enemy.” Heaven help you if they find you online, and find us they did. In part because I criticized their movement directly—and in part because I refused to support Donald Trump in 2016—they came after us with a vengeance.
    They lifted pictures of my then-7-year-old daughter from social media and photo-shopped her into a gas chamber, with Donald Trump pressing the button to kill her. They put her image in slave fields. They found my wife’s blog and filled the comment section with gruesome pictures of dead or dying African-Americans. They made me wish for the days when “the left” came after us; at least progressive critics didn’t want my daughter to die.
    We’re an extreme case, mainly because my wife and I are both writers and we’ve both offered very public (and controversial) political commentary. Not every adopted family has been audited by their government, attacked online from left and right, and seen their child threatened by racists. No one should believe that our experience is the experience of every adoptive family. But many, many families have their own experiences of hatred and ignorance.
    White parents see racism directed at their black kids. Cruel people use social media to accuse parents of raising kids as fashion statements. Others lecture them on their inherent inability to meet the needs of children of color. The hate our family received may have been more prolific because of who we are, but that hate is real, it is part of American life, and it will find its way to all too many families that looks like ours.

    This is not the GOP or conservative movement that I came up with.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  54. I suspect the GOPe will try to help protect Trump in exchange for him bowing to the GOPe agenda. But it may be too late for that help to matter.

    DRJ (15874d)

  55. Me either, Paul, and I’m old enough to fear it may stay this way until long after I’m gone.

    DRJ (15874d)

  56. Paul, are evangelicals considered conservative now? I thought they supported Trump and I don’t consider him conservative. DCSCA likes Trump because he is ending conservatism.

    DRJ (15874d)

  57. As him teacher put, ‘the only good Republican is the last Republican,’

    Narciso (ad700c)

  58. And yet they buried the story, I would say because:

    http://archive.is/qdfAI

    Narciso (ad700c)

  59. @52. Libertarians are a subset in my POV. Cruz’s problem is akin to Hillary’s; they’re both preachy, not particularly likable and not very entertaining. Nobody likes to be preached to. And Trump is entertaining. Reagan’s skill was to message in an amiable fashion.

    So in this day and age, if you want a Libertarian in the running, find one that fun to watch on the TeeVee. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  60. Ugh. Breaking. Mass shooting at gaming bar in Jacksonville, FL.

    And the world spins on…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  61. @57. DCSCA likes Trump because he is ending conservatism.

    No, that’s inaccurate. Consider it ‘containment’… you know– like communism.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. No, that’s inaccurate. Consider it ‘containment’… you know– like communism.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/26/2018 @ 11:48 am

    I’m sorry. I wasn’t trying to misunderstand but I read neutering as more intense than containment. FWIW my neutered pets agree with me. And thanks for your follow-up. Cruz is preachy. I still liked him when he stood up for his beliefs. I don’t like him as much when he doesn’t.

    DRJ (15874d)

  63. I won’t ask if you equate communism with conservatism, other than they are both movements. I don’t want to take a chance that your answer might ruin my day.

    DRJ (15874d)

  64. @63. FWIW, I’d have preferred Rockefeller over Goldwater. But as you know, my pet peeve in that era was the space program and LBJ backed Apollo from the get-go; Goldwater did not.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  65. @64. Stick w/”containment.” 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  66. Paul, are evangelicals considered conservative now?

    You would think so. I can understand why evangelicals picked Trump over Hillary despite his lack of ethics or character because (1) Hillary has little character herself and (2) her party is too often hostile to Christians. But now that Trump is in office, I don’t know why evangelicals would defend those words and acts that lack ethics or character. That doesn’t seem conservative to me.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  67. Simple reason Paul. Because Trump is the only thing preventing the loons on the left from wholly taking over and forcing the nation to become California.

    NJRob (1f3ed5)

  68. He despised Reagan, you get that impression, back when the Soviet threat was in three or four candidates, rockefeller really didn’t challenge the regime except at the margins

    Narciso (ad700c)

  69. @35.I’ve only seen Neil Simon’s few, best-known works, but those were amazing. The Odd Couple, Barefoot in the Park and The Out-of-Towners. I remember laughing so hard at the latter that it hurt.

    Watch ‘The Prisoner of Second Avenue’ – it’s another gem.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  70. 47.If I had to guess, I’d say DCSCA is a Democrat, in fact.

    Keep guessing. Not affiliated w/either party but most decidedly not wed to any ideology– conservative or liberal.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  71. 68… bingo, NJ Rob…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  72. 3. Simon Jester (c2dcde) — 8/25/2018 @ 6:04 pm

    3.As in other threads, I am eternally surprised at how easily some people spread vitriol not simply to a deceased person, but to his family and friends. Ugh.

    Maybe a little off topic, but the New York Times has a whole article on the front page today about people spilling vitriol on politicians, particularly (or only actually in this article!) female ones, even after the election at candidates who lost the election.

    And Steve King (Rep-Iowa) is portrayed as a real villain because it says he wants to deny it happened, (although the tweet by Steve King it cites doesn’t deny it happened, but blames Democrats for it presumably because it happened at an early stage of the race) to a Democratic opponent (Kim Weaver) who pulled out of the race last year because of it:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/us/politics/women-harassment-elections.html

    On the other hand, I am delighted to join with folks here in expressing condolences over this loss to Senator McCain’s family and friends. It is possible, as I wrote in another thread, to disagree with a person and mourn their passing.

    And regardless of political differences or policy disagreements, Senator McCain was a true American hero who merits our respect at his passing. His time in Hanoi earns his that, and far more.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  73. On the other hand, I am delighted to join with folks here in expressing condolences over this loss to Senator McCain’s family and friends.

    It’s terrible.

    It is possible, as I wrote in another thread, to disagree with a person and mourn their passing.

    The problem with McCain was that he wasn’t brilliant enough.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  74. McCain was 81 (or 82) – he lived a good long time and led an extremely comfortable life for the last 45 years.

    He was also an extremely divisive political figure who delighted in slamming others and calling them names. Politically his word was worthless. “Build the dang fence” “I oppose Obamacare” “I no longer support Amnesty” “Agents of Intolerance” “I support the SC Sate Flag” – I don’t think there’s ever been a pol who lied more to “the base” at election time than John McCain

    In foreign Policy he was a belligerent menace. In domestic policy, when he actually paid attention, he was an unreliable “maverick” who could never be counted on by his own side. His only consistent political attitude was his love for war and his need for approval from the New York Times.

    Oh yeah, and he was WAR HERO. 45 years ago. As his supporters reminded us every single day for 30 years.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  75. there’s only so much one can speak on McCain,

    http://dailycaller.com/2018/08/26/brian-stelter-cnn-trump-tower/

    narciso (d1f714)

  76. Wow. You’d think McCain announced he was going to run against Trump in the 2020 GOP primary, instead of simply dying. This is the time to show our adult sides and realize death is something we all have in common.

    DRJ (15874d)

  77. #79. The Trump fans kept after it even when the man was clearly ill. To back off now is to admit you were acting tacky in the first place.

    Appalled (a85fc3)

  78. @79.

    “So, let us not be blind to our differences–but let us also direct attention to our common interests and to the means by which those differences can be resolved. And if we cannot end now our differences, at least we can help make the world safe for diversity. For, in the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children’s future. And we are all mortal.” – JFK, 6/10/63

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  79. But one last thing. The division between the McCain wing and the Trump wing really is policy driven. McCain’s foreign policy is W’s, except a touch more belligerent. Trump’s is isolationist, when it isn’t ignorant. McCain was immigration reform, Gang of 8. Trump is Wall. McCain was honestly for stringent ethics and campaign finance rules, First Amendment be darned. Trump — well, he agrees on the First Amendment be Darned part. McCain cared about the budget and over spending. Trump, not so much.

    Because both men tended to personalize conflict, there is a temptation that the strain between McCain and Trump was solely personal. They weren’t.

    Appalled (a85fc3)

  80. I mangled my last paragraph in #82. The vivid personality conflict between Trump and McCain tends to overshadow that the policy conflict between the two is real, and, to the extent there is still a McCain wing of the GOP, it’s going to continue.

    Appalled (a85fc3)

  81. DRJ, not to over think it, but consider this [from another thread]:

    The Time Donald Trump Turned Away in Disgust While a Man Was Bleeding To Death In Front Of Him

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-time-donald-trump-turned-away-in-disgust-while-a-man-bled-to-death-in-front-of-him

    ‘“I’m not good for medical. In other words, if you cut your finger and there’s blood pouring out, I’m gone,” [Trump] told Stern’.

    And last week, when, when Aretha Franklin passed, was struck by how somewhat flat, if not pedestrian, Trump’s tweet was. He tweeted: “The Queen of Soul, Aretha Franklin, is dead. She was a great woman, with a wonderful gift from God, her voice. She will be missed!”

    In 2016, when Arnold Palmer passed, Trump tweeted a similar message: “Really sad news: The great Arnold Palmer, the “King,” has died. There was no-one like him – a true champion! He will be truly missed.” That seemed matter-of-factly-par-for-the-course as well given Trump’s affinity for golf courses and golfers.

    Suspect on top of his obvious animosity toward McCain, Trump just doesn’t ‘do death’ very well and that he’s squeamish about dealing w/such matters.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  82. Speaking of adopting a child from a “s**thole country”…

    …This is not the GOP or conservative movement that I came up with.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2) — 8/26/2018 @ 11:33 am

    What “conservative movement” do you want to be a part of? One that lies? One that doesn’t believe America is the greatest country on Earth? There are s***hole countries. How badly do you want to bask in Haiti. A country that has come up with a recipe for dirt cookies.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22902512/ns/world_news-americas/t/haitis-poor-resort-eating-mud-prices-rise/

    Literally other countries treat their slaves like dirt. America is the greatest place on earth. Do you have a problem with me saying so?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  83. Bangladesh, where a long time assassin, is now being extradited back to be tried there.

    Narciso (016af1)

  84. America is worth dying for. I grew up during the Vietnam war. I was born in the Oaknoll naval hospital. The halls were lined with men horribly burned or disfigured. Just as soon as I could after college I joined. I was scared to death I was going to end up burned. It didn’t happen.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  85. Passageways for you Navy types.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  86. 82 being open borders is called immigration reform and being for legal immigration that benefits the US is a wall. I don’t think you could slant that further left if you tried.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  87. Appalled,

    They did have policy differences and they both are (or, in McCain’s case, were) willing to personalize policy differences. But that doesn’t mean we all have to continue their personal feud. Let’s engage the policy issues because they still exist, and they probably always will. But the personal animosity isn’t worth it.

    The great lie that all politicians and their faithful fall for is that winning an election means their side won the argument for good. The conversation between DCSCA and I shows how flawed that notion is. The divide in the GOP between Rockefeller and Goldwater Republicans has gone on for 60 years, and it is not over yet.

    If the comments here show one thing it is that bitterness goes hand-in-hand with desperation. I understand those feelings but I also think that if America is on her last desperate legs, then bitterness won’t save her.

    DRJ (15874d)

  88. Did we learn nothing from Reagan? Hope is what motivates people to be their better selves, not anger.

    DRJ (15874d)

  89. Interesting Russian obituary excerpt:

    “He was an implacable opponent of Russia, who supported even tougher sanctions…”

    https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1033724078367105024

    Davethulhu (fddbc4)

  90. Trump rejected plans for a White House statement praising McCain

    President Trump nixed issuing a statement that praised the heroism and life of Sen. John McCain, telling senior aides he preferred to issue a tweet before posting one Saturday night that did not include any kind words for the late Arizona Republican. – washingtonpost.com

    Making America Grate Again!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  91. Some anonymous source told the MSM a tale that makes Trump look bad.

    Wow, surprising.

    I wonder who it was. Someone “familiar” with “those who know Trump”?

    Aka 2nd Hand Gossip. Or maybe a reporter’s imaginary friend.

    You make the call!

    rcocean (1a839e)

  92. That six foot rabbit would never steer us wrong.

    Narciso (224a5a)

  93. People seem to forget that when British “spy” & Trump hater Steele got his Hillary Funded Dossier to McCain – McCain didn’t inform the President elect.

    Wouldn’t you want your fellow Republican – soon to be President – to know that there was a “secret” dossier alleging he had done all kinds of crazy things?

    But of course, McCain didn’t do that. Because John McCain is a man of “Honor”. So, he just read the Dossier and gave it to Comey. Who of course was also an honorable man.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  94. Remember when McCain said Trump-Russia would be “Bigger than Watergate?”

    And constantly told us – until Mueller got appointed – that “another shoe was going to drop”?

    Truly McCain was a man of honor.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  95. BTW, in his autobiography, McCain talks about giving the Dossier to Comey and said anyone who thought he should’ve behaved differently can “Go to Hell”.

    Truly he was a Great American.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  96. Truly, some folks are just unclear on the concept.

    Simon Jester (c2dcde)

  97. I credited somethings McCain did right, but with talk of replacing Russell’s name with his, of appointing his wife to his Senate seat, this isn’t merely about courtesy but narrative.

    Narciso (224a5a)

  98. The worst thing about Trump has always been the dog-molesters … ahem, pardon me, I mean deplorables, who support him.

    nk (dbc370)

  99. And the hobbit hunters among the establishment, yes they have always bee. Tactful and since they have no influence in the media,…mccain was against needed interrogations, he was for amnesty (look how well that worked out) he was bland mange on the life question (gang of 14)

    Narciso (224a5a)

  100. How badly do you want to bask in Haiti. A country that has come up with a recipe for dirt cookies.

    Non-sequitur noted, 57.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  101. He’s probably doing it wrong, after all he is ‘literally hitler’

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/us-set-to-reject-palestinian-fantasy-of-right-of-return/

    Narciso (224a5a)

  102. I’m going to try to get this done by midnight.

    SJ said:

    As in other threads, I am eternally surprised at how easily some people spread vitriol not simply to a deceased person, but to his family and friends. Ugh.

    On the other hand, I am delighted to join with folks here in expressing condolences over this loss to Senator McCain’s family and friends. It is possible, as I wrote in another thread, to disagree with a person and mourn their passing.

    And regardless of political differences or policy disagreements, Senator McCain was a true American hero who merits our respect at his passing. His time in Hanoi earns his that, and far more.

    I said that today I thank him for his heroism and his airmanship. Tomorrow I don’t think of him. Maybe that seems vitriolic to you. Dunno. But I’m thinking of the living. During my entire naval career there was not one major procurement program that came in on time and within budget on John McCain’s watch. And he kept promoting the Admirals and Generals who were constantly f***ing up. And, and, blaming people who who tried to fix the problems that Johh McCain kept creating. His attack on Bob Work, a former USMC light colonel was particularly objectionable. Did you at any point in your life, SJ, think I would stand up for an Obama appointee. McCain tried to blame Work for the failures of the Littoral Combat Ship (really LCS stands for little crappy ship) that preexisted Works tenure in the Department of the Navy. That McCain, again, caused. And by all accounts Work was going to great lengths to fix. But when Obama, who was not in every way horrible, appointed Work to a higher position in DoD McCain held up his appointment.

    I’m not dancing on the man’s grave. It ticks me off that I am put in the position of defending McCain against Trump. How many times do I have to quote from McCain’s DFC citation? He’s a hero. He’s more of a hero than you or I or anyone here witnessing this will ever live to be. But I have my beefs with John McCain and I know them to be legit.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  103. The one constant in all the procurement programs that John McCain oversaw while he was on the Senate Armed Services Committed was John McCain. That said, I hope God has mercy on his soul.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  104. Exactly it’s like blaming lt jg ettinger of the Essex for his fate (he was the basis for Holden character) the final refrain of Frederick March’s ‘ where do we get such men’

    Narciso (224a5a)

  105. Steve57, I don’t comment much because of the weird tenor of commenting here at Patterico’s place—very different from just a few years ago. I’m not interested in fighting people, and it seems that many folks only post to do that very thing. Fine for them; not my scene. It’s Patterico’s place; his rules go.

    I certainly don’t put you in the trollish camp, if my opinion matters to you. I always appreciate your posts and learn from them.

    To me, there is a world of difference between being in the “cancer drool” camp and the “I respect McCain’s service but not his political decisions” camp.

    I do think that there isn’t a thing wrong with taking a day or two to honor the memory of someone who has just died. There is plenty of time to pick at the bones. We all do that, and it’s probably better than deifying the dead.

    What I object to is the personal insulting attacks, which even slop over onto family. You certainly haven’t done that.

    I hope that makes my own opinion clearer. And it’s not my business if folks like to urinate on fresh graves. That’s between them and Patterico.

    Simon Jester (c2dcde)

  106. Pathetic:

    WaPo:
    Trump rejected plans for a White House statement praising McCain

    President Trump nixed issuing a statement that praised the heroism and life of Sen. John McCain, telling senior aides he preferred to issue a tweet before posting one Saturday night that did not include any kind words for the late Arizona Republican.

    Press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Chief of Staff John F. Kelly and other White House aides advocated for an official statement that gave the decorated Vietnam War POW plaudits for his military and Senate service and called him a “hero,” according to current and former White House aides, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive internal deliberations. The original statement was drafted before McCain died Saturday, and Sanders and others edited a final version this weekend that was ready for the president, the aides said.

    But Trump told aides he wanted to post a brief tweet instead, and the statement praising McCain’s life was not released.

    NYT:
    As a Nation Mourns McCain, Trump Is Conspicuously Absent

    As leaders of both political parties and foreign dignitaries publicly mourned John McCain on Sunday, President Trump conspicuously avoided a national moment of tribute to a senator whose death seemed to be its own metaphor for the demise of civility and unity in the Trump era.

    The president did not make even the most cursory public show of respect on Sunday for Mr. McCain, against whom he had continued to indulge a personal grievance even as it was apparent that the Arizona Republican was losing his battle with brain cancer. The president spent much of the day golfing and attacking his usual enemies on Twitter.

    Rip Murdock (76ebab)

  107. BTW, in his autobiography, McCain talks about giving the Dossier to Comey and said anyone who thought he should’ve behaved differently can “Go to Hell”.

    Truly he was a Great American.

    Indeed. Putting country ahead of party.

    Something you and Putin’s little b*tch would clearly never consider.

    Dave (445e97)

  108. I can’t even go that far.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  109. this is the same new York times who accused him of an affair with a lobbyist, on very little evidence, he learned his lesson, he threw his running mate to the dogs, at first opportunity,
    the jones memo is proof, his thinktank hired klimnik from the gru, that seemed sloppy, they worked with akhmetshin, on a pro Russian campaign against nuzurbayev,

    narciso (d1f714)

  110. I am not sure having this President mouth the conventional pieties would have been a good idea. The angry slight would (and probably still will) appear in a rally or tweet not too far down the road. Normalizing this abnormal man is a fools game. Which is likely why the people working for him in the White House often act like fools.

    Appalled (a85fc3)

  111. do you ever get tired of being wrong appalled, whole cities burned because of Obama’s irresponsible rhetoric,

    narciso (d1f714)

  112. speaking of weasels, or whatever they have in the uk, sasha baron cohen, chose not to show that supposed ‘burn’ against palin, better sense than the times,

    narciso (d1f714)

  113. If I may be so bold, this is what I posted on FB this morning (after being offline all weekend):

    —-

    John McCain was a complicated and deeply flawed man. And at the same time, he was a hero, and at his best, he represented our best imagination of what politics can be: people with incredible disagreements coming together to work for the good of the people, finding the space where they can agree and working on achieving those things, and remaining decent people to one another even in disagreement.

    And *choosing* to remain in Hanoi and be tortured, when he was given the opportunity to exploit his family connections and get out earlier than the rest of his brethren? That was an unbelievable sacrifice for his country and for his fellow soldiers. That sense of honor and duty and *devotion* is something he brought with him to the rest of his life, and the country was richer for it.

    I disagreed with him on politics almost all of the time; he was a conservative, and I am a liberal, and so of course we disagreed. But I voted for him once, because he was the best option on the table at that time, and I’ve never regretted it; for all of his flaws and his political blindness, he was a bad ass motherfucker who would have served the country well as President, just as he served the people of Arizona well as Senator and the people of our country well as a soldier.

    Our country is diminished by his loss.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)


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