Roy Moore: America Was Last Great When We Had Slavery
Roy Moore has a long and rich history of crazy quotes, and this is another nugget from the past that got little attention until recently. Moore was asked (by a black person) when America was last great, and his answer (at least as reported by a leftist rag) suggested that his answer was: those glorious days of slavery.
In response to a question from one of the only African Americans in the audience — who asked when Moore thought America was last “great” — Moore acknowledged the nation’s history of racial divisions, but said: “I think it was great at the time when families were united — even though we had slavery — they cared for one another…. Our families were strong, our country had a direction.”
At the same event, Moore referred to Native Americans and Asian Americans as “reds and yellows,” and earlier this year he suggested the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks were divine punishment.
I have a long and well-documented history of distrusting the Los Angeles Times, and this quote is a) truncated, b) not presented in full context, and c) unaccompanied by any video I could find. (If you can find video, let me know.) But on the other hand, Roy Moore also has a documented history of saying boneheaded things in a blatant attempt to appeal to small-minded bigots, which makes it more difficult to reject this as #FAKENEWS.
If you’re already a Moore supporter, you’ll say the L.A. Times made it up, or you’ll find a way to spin it. If you’re not, you’re likely just shaking your head at this. It is interesting, though, as a marker for how times have changed. As John Podhoretz notes:
For suggesting life was better during segregation and Jim Crow, Trent Lott was run out of the Senate. Now Roy Moore is saying life was better under SLAVERY.
— John Podhoretz (@jpodhoretz) December 8, 2017
America — or at least the Republican party — is different in the era of Donald Trump. God bless the UnididStatesh.
UPDATE: On Twitter, Phil Kerpen notes that the L.A. Times has posted audio that is not necessarily consistent with the story. It cuts off the beginning of the question but does not reveal the questioner asking when America was “last” great. Moore starts his reply with something the paper claims is totally inaudible but which I can decipher most of, and it is Moore saying: “you asked me [inaudible] when was it ever great?” That is different from when it was “last” great. It would be nice if they posted the whole question.
[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]
Roy Moore: America was last great when Democrats ruled the south.
Wth was he thinking?
harkin (9298f8) — 12/8/2017 @ 9:15 amhttp://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/12/08/bombshell-roy-moore-accuser-admits-forged-yearbook/
So it’s forged and the media’s been working overtime to destroy him.
Why should we trust the media again?
NJRob (b00189) — 12/8/2017 @ 9:22 amHow did this suddenly become news again? It was reported *in September*.
aphrael (3f0569) — 12/8/2017 @ 9:28 amSooooo…the sex approach didn’t get the traction the leftists needed so they’re trying the raaaaacist approach? I think one would be hard pressed to find anyone living in the south over the age of 40 who hasn’t made some racist remark at sometime. That said, show me the tape.
Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7) — 12/8/2017 @ 9:30 amDr Evil seriously, you bring us that known liar as a measure of anything?
narciso (4346c7) — 12/8/2017 @ 9:31 amJesus loves the little children,
All the children of the world.
Red and yellow, black and white,
They are precious in his sight
Jesus loves the little children of the world.
Could that be what Moore was thinking of?
Those Bannon candidates are really a piece of work, aren’t they?
JVW (42615e) — 12/8/2017 @ 9:36 amYou got to admit, he’s got a high bar to clear in re racism, after all he’s running for a seat recently occupied by a “Beauregard”, i think he just jumbled the order of the components of the response to bad effect (if that is word for word to begin with).
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 12/8/2017 @ 9:39 amAphrael,
because polling indicates that minorities aren’t going to turn out at the polls for Jones.
Screaming racist is an attempt to push turnout.
NJRob (b00189) — 12/8/2017 @ 9:40 amWho called it the dog trainer, meanwhile Flynn may have been sentenced by the same judge that signed off on that ridiculous warrant, I think that would be grounds for appeal?
narciso (4346c7) — 12/8/2017 @ 9:41 amYep, the Accuser forged everything, date, his late name, title. Its actually in different ink. All you’re left with is a yearbook inscription by someone called “Roy” – no evidence linking it to Roy Moore and no date. Could be a classmate called Roy. Of course, ABC didn’t follow up or ask any questions as to why she forged Moore’s signature. Nor did they publicize it, they buried it. Just like Red state.
rcocean (a72eb2) — 12/8/2017 @ 9:48 amRed State titles it “Accuser wants to change part of her story” – how deceptive is that. Salon couldn’t have done better.
rcocean (a72eb2) — 12/8/2017 @ 9:50 amWhy are we surprised we know what the grapevine did to Anwar Ibrahim in malaysia?
narciso (4346c7) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:05 amAnd who was a party to that?
narciso (4346c7) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:09 amRoy Moore:
Well, that’s true, even for blacks, to the extent it was possible for slaves to care for their families, and the places it was worst of course was Alabama and Mississippi, but things were even better after slavery was abolished – blacks had very strong families all the way until 1925 or 1930, and longer in the south.
Why bring up slavery? And there was no drug addiction during that time also – but also later. There was also no electricity or telephone service or indoor plumbing…
Sammy Finkelman (63d78b) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:10 amRoy Moore might have stumbled attempting to express his admiration for the strong work ethics and binding family values of whites during the pre 1864 period of black slavery without also acknowledging that members of slave families could be sold and forcibly separated. His oversight left the door open for opportunistic criticism from unprincipled partisans, and they rushed to throw mud on Moore. No big deal, it happens in political campaigns, it’s more the rule than an exception, and Moore has come in for an avalanche of unprincipled criticism and false accusations.
For example, in the LA Times quote, Moore is criticised for referencing Native Americans as ‘reds’ and Asians as ‘yellows’ when Caucasians and African Americans are routinely idintified as ‘whites’ and ‘blacks.’ As for the claim that 911 was divine retribution, well, that’s an example of the sort of sanctimonious idiocy preached by ignorant and insanely bigoted bible thumping abolitionists, global change goofballs, college professors, and Soros funded rent-a-mobs.
ropelight (352cbe) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:10 amYet Doug Jones indicted Richard Newell allowing Eric Rudolph to kill and mangle people for years.
narciso (4346c7) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:17 amGod bless the UnididStatesh.
Strok’em if ‘ya got’em, Captain, sir!
DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:22 amropelight would have us believe that white Americans’ systemic enslavement of an entire race for the express purpose of avoiding manual labor constitutes a “strong work ethic.” I suppose that white Americans’ systemic rape of black slaves constitutes the “family values” part?
You’re not fooling anyone, dude. Pathetic.
Leviticus (c7071a) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:25 am“VOTE ROY MOORE” tweets Donald J. Trump, President of the United States of America.
Then jets off on our dime to rally along the Redneck Riviera, making America grate again.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:29 amTo our resident Burnie-bros,
no comment on the now admitted forgery that us crazy conservatives were saying was the case all along?
Any apologies perhaps?
NJRob (b00189) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:35 amYou don’t have to go back to slavery and the 1850’s to find strong black families. They were also around after segregation was dismantled in the late 1950’s, but the “delinquency, joblessness, school failure, crime, and fatherlessness” of the 1960’s destroyed many families — including black families — and led to a perpetual underclass. But maybe Moore isn’t as knowledgeable about history, or maybe he feels an affection for the Old South.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:37 amA forgery? Nelson claims his signature was real but she added the date and place. She should have revealed that at the time, but it is not the same as a forgery.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:39 amHe might as well have said “even though we had no penicillin” or if you want more to the point “no women’s suffrage”. He did not say “under slavery” and I understand it as “despite having the institution of slavery”.
nk (dbc370) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:40 am@20
it’s not a forgery, and characterizing it as one is disingenuous.
She added “12-22-77 Olde Hickory House”, everything else is still Moore
Davethulhu (fab944) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:45 amNelson claims his signature was real but she added the date and place.
The date and the place are the relevant and material parts. Her accusation is that he was a regular customer who kept coming on to her until he finally lured her into his car and assaulted her by the dumpster.
But I think the whole thing is phony, anyway, possibly done by the same person who did her sketch, off a sample of Moore’s handwriting from her divorce papers.
nk (dbc370) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:46 amI’d say his signature in her yearbook is the relevant and material part.
Davethulhu (fab944) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:47 amAnd the killiam memo was true, so says Mary mapes, Shirley.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:47 amDRJ,
you’ve got to be kidding. She claimed the notation and signature was his and showed a copy to try and hide the differences. She didn’t say anything about the addition even when people exposed the discrepancy. When asked for the yearbook for authentication, they denied it until a Congressional investigation was opened which would clearly happen after the election.
Fortunately, there were real investigators going after this fraud and showed beyond a shadow of a doubt that there were multiple handwriting acts on the page. Still people didn’t admit it.
Now she has and still the same suspects are dismissing it.
This is called evidence. Remember when you cared about evidence?
NJRob (b00189) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:48 amI’d say his signature in her yearbook is the relevant and material part.
Which is his signature as it appears on his court stamp with his clerk’s initials by it.
nk (dbc370) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:50 am2. The media could not be played.
She doesn’t say, does she, where Roy Moore left off, and when she began. Or when she added the notes. And still hasn’t shown anyone the yearbook.
What this story is, is an attempt to find the most favorable possible news outlet to make a partial concession.
By the way, what reason is there to believe that she wrote whatever she says was added later?
I think I heard this idea before that the 1977 dates were notes. On Patterico. So it’s been around.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:51 amBecause the date establishes a time, and the witnesses but the other employers say no.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:54 amBreitbart is claiming again that Moore ruled against her in a 1999 divorce case. As far as I know, that has been debunked and the debunking has not been itself debunked. Moore didn’t rule against her, and it’s an extremely unlikely personal motive in any case. She withdrew the divorce petition for whatever reason, and Moore’s role was purely clerical. something’s very wrong with Breitbart.com – but you knew that. It’s almost (?) like they are trying to protect the true forgers.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:54 am“……..strong black families. They were also around after segregation was dismantled in the late 1950’s, but the “delinquency, joblessness, school failure, crime, and fatherlessness” of the 1960’s destroyed many families — including black families — and led to a perpetual underclass. But maybe Moore isn’t as knowledgeable about history, or maybe he feels an affection for the Old South.”
Yep, the black family was really starting to make some real gains with the northern migration for manufacturing jobs starting in WW1……just about up to the time that Democrats decided that the best way to secure the black vote was to shatter that progress, convince blacks they could not succeed without govt. handouts and basically decimate an entire community for political gain.
harkin (fcaff0) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:57 amMorning Joe played a short video this morning. Moore did say those words, exactly as quoted. But the video didn’t contain whatever Moore said before or after those words, so the result is: look for a longer video.
But that was for me not the wacky part. Moore probably referred to slavery because he had just been asked about slavery–but still, he could have referred to anytime between Appomattox and the first man in space, and his example would have been better.
The wacky part was in a video also played by MJ, an interview with someone from the Grauniad. The reporter referred for a reason I didn’t hear (I was making breakfast, and stopped to listen) to Reagan’s description of the USSR as the Evil Empire. To which Moore answered, “Well the US also is a focus for evil.” Reporter asked him what he meant. Moore said he was talking about same sex marriage.
So apparently Moore thinks SSM is of the same kind and degree of evil as the Brezhnev Gulag….
kishnevi (bb03e6) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:58 amLike richrlieu said its a question of dates:
https://mobile.twitter.com/sarahcwestwood?p=s
narciso (d1f714) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:59 amKishenvi – yeah, it’s pretty clear and has been for years that Moore considers same sex marriage to be a *terrible* evil.
The thing that’s baffling to me about claiming that during slavery families were united and that slave families cared for one another is that there were *no* rules requiring that slave owners maintain families, and family members were *regularly* sold away from one another. Maintaining the family was next to impossible during slavery, unless the slaves were very lucky in their masters.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:08 amThis Huffandpuff piece seems to have the fullest version of the Guardian interview as part of the video it embeds. Just sit through the LockheedMartin ad.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/roy-moore-putin-is-right_us_5a2a2122e4b069ec48ac322f
kishnevi (bb03e6) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:09 amI’m from Massachusetts and read Uncle Tom’s Cabin as a kid. But I suppose they didn’t read it in Alabama.
But they must have seen The King and I (remember the little dramatization by the harem of Liza’s escape across the ice?).
kishnevi (bb03e6) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:11 amWas he talking about slave families, and not families in general with slavery as the dark lining in the silver cloud?
nk (dbc370) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:12 amnarciso @31. What are you referring to here? yes of course I understand why she wanted to say 1977. All the other stories are 1977, and maybe he has some alibis for later, and that makes her young and although at 16 she’s not underage, and the real allegation is attempted rape, which is acrime even at age 18 or 21, still it fits in with the narrative/
But what witnesses and other employees?
You mean the witnesses who aren’t there who would back up the assertions that she worked there in 1977 or that Roy Moore was a regular customer who stayed there every night for two months or more?
And there are some other problems, like this ad:
https://twitter.com/billineastala/status/930519160123248640?lang=en
Which proves, yes, it was called “Olde Hickory House” with an “e” at the end of “Old”, unlike what Kayla Moore claimed originally. (There was a chain called Old Hickory House and they probably tried to avoid infringing on their trademark)
But it also proves that, at least as of January, it closed at 11 pm!
And not at 10 pm as Beverly Young Nelson said. (There might be a reason for this mistake, having to do with Alabama labor laws for people under 18.)
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:14 amnk @39 Actually I think he was talking about all families, but they say the question was asked by a black man.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:14 am39, its jumble and an incoherent (due to its unrehearsed/unscripted on the spot nature). If he had been asked by anyone other than a black reporter, he might not have made a single mention of slavery. Had he though, it would have been an earnest admission which would probably sway some of the auto plant engineers’ wives/ in Huntsville types.
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:20 amand not families in general with slavery as the dark lining in the silver cloud
I assume that’s what he meant. But I’m using the telepathic powers I learned to use while studying with Karnak the Magician….
kishnevi (bb03e6) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:28 amIf this was ever about Roy Moore that ship has sailed. This is about how far and how low the left will go to get Trump and how many people they will hurt to do it, both their own and Republicans. They don’t care about Roy Moore, they care about power and how to retake it. They don’t care who they need to destroy to do so up to and including the republic itself. Remember, Democrats tried to destroy America in 1861 to get their way and they haven’t changed today. They used to own slaves and plantations then and now they own welfare handouts and urban ghettos. The more the Democrats change the more they stay the same. The left has been screaning bloody murder since the election and this is just the latest incarnation. If this doesn’t work there will be something else. They need a win to prove they can beat Trump. If Moore loses, they win. It’s as simple as that.
Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:31 amDrj: it does nothing for her credibility however it’s parsed. She didn’t need to stack the deck but now the Brietbart/Alex Joneses will be crowing like feeding ravens.
Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:35 am33. Actually the black family started declining (in the north) in the 1930s – there is reason the two famous books about the Negro family stop at 1925 and 1930.
The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom, 1750-1925 by Herbert G. Gutman (1976)
I can’t remember or find the name of the other book, but it ended in 1930. It seems to have fallen into complete obscurity and Google and Bing don’t find it. Gutman wrote his book in order to dispute Daniel Patrick Moynihan who attributed the situation in the 1960s to the legacy of slavery.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:42 amBullonious contempt for voter intelligence.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/12/08/anti-trump-conservatives-place-500000-ad-buy-against-roy-moore/
Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:44 amRev H, it’s also how low the GOP will go to maintain their claws on power. Having decided that it’s okay for a man to be President even though he seems to lack even the understanding of morality and integrity, they know think it’s okay for a man to be senator even though as a judge he thought it was fine to ignore judicial orders he did not agree with, and who seems to think that homosexuality is an equal evil in kind and degree with the Soviet Gulag.
kishnevi (bb03e6) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:46 amAre we arguing over whether or not Moore is a bull-whip CRACKer or has that been stipulated?
Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:48 amI just completed a federal form that had checkboxes for ethnicity. I had the option of declining to check a box. So I declined.
Here I thought I’d be flying under the radar, but apparently there’s software that can determine, based upon one’s first and last name and address, your ethnicity. E-Tech by Ethnic Technologies. Seriously.
Lenny (5ea732) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:50 amBTW, Captain H. (I use your army rank for a reason here)….something came up yesterday with a customer of mine. He was a Vietnam vet was initially loath to buy something because it was made in Vietnam, given that “they were shooting my brothers” (his exact phrase).
Which set me to wonder how widespread that attitude was among Vietnam vets, and I am hoping you can shed some light on the topic (or at least give your own view of the matter).
Thanks.
kishnevi (bb03e6) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:50 amDon’t worry Admiral. It can’t determine the planet you’re from.
Lenny (5ea732) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:51 amReally? He’d let blacks occupy the stockyard as the beasts they Are?
Maybe he’s not racist.
Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:51 amHe’s a specist.
Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:52 amBTW, if anyone else here is a Vietnam vet, feel free to answer. I specifically asked Hoagie simply because he’s the only here I remember being one.
kishnevi (bb03e6) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:53 amThe day she went public al.com seemed to indicate that Beverly Young Nelson even lied about where she is working now:
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/beverly_young_nelson_remembere.html
She maybe used to own a business.
http://heavy.com/news/2017/11/beverly-young-nelson-roy-moore-accuser-allred/
Roy Moore I think is claiming he didn’t know Beverly Young nelson, but his wife probably did.
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/when_did_roy_moore_meet_his_wi.html
Maybe even in the same class, although I think that means the same school year.
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/beverly_young_nelson_remembere.html
So she was in a yearbook. (she transferred to another school for the 1977-78 school year and after) She was only there in the 10th grade, and not the whole year, having just moved from California.
Did the Washington Post reject her story?
That would be interesting to know. They only reported a fake story somebody for Moore tried to plant, and only after they could prove it. We can’t reason from silence.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:56 amOnly kernel popcorn calls me Admiral out of respect for false colors, Kenny.
Call me Ben.
Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:56 amI’m not kidding, Rob.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/8/2017 @ 11:59 amBy the way, is Trump trying to help or hurt Republican donors with the tax bill? A New York Times Op-ed writer and a news story disagree.
Op-ed columnist David Brooks:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/07/opinion/the-gop-is-rotting.html
Rich donors seem to disagree, according to a front page news story.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/07/nyregion/tax-bill-republican-trump-new-york.html
I did read an article that the real estate business, though, is coming out OK. Even if Trump doesn’t care any more, somebody else maybe does.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 12/8/2017 @ 12:03 pmFortunately, there were real investigators
Breitbart/Jones/Fox. Are YOU kidding?
Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 12/8/2017 @ 12:06 pmHey nk.
Ancient Aliens might interest you. Lots of investigative facts.
Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 12/8/2017 @ 12:08 pm48. Well, the House of Representatives thinks it is perfectly OK for an impeached federal judge, who was impeached for bribery and perjury (and accused of jury tampering) is a member. People in Florida should know who I am talking about.
And he also was accused of sexual harassment, but that was in 2011.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 12/8/2017 @ 12:11 pmSorry nk 61 was for NjRob.
Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 12/8/2017 @ 12:16 pm@18 Leviticus
Would you have us believe that white people were the only shade represented as slave owners and slave traders? In The Americas even, just to narrow it down.
The census of 1830 lists 3,775 free Negros who owned a total of 12,760 slaves.
Snopes
Pinandpuller (356abb) — 12/8/2017 @ 12:16 pmThey were also around after segregation was dismantled in the late 1950’s, but the “delinquency, joblessness, school failure, crime, and fatherlessness” of the 1960’s destroyed many families. . .
DRJ, I am hazy on the exact details but probably a decade or so ago I read a fascinating article (I think on a conservative site) about an African-American woman who had been a young adult and an activist during the Civil Rights movement. She had relocated as a small girl with her family from the Deep South to Chicago, when her dad had landed a well-paying (compared to sharecropping) factory job during World War II. She grew up in a black neighborhood where none of them were wealthy, but all of them were in two-parent families with a dad who was employed. When she graduated from high school in the early 1950s she attended secretarial school, married, and settled down to start her own family, also volunteering her time with the local NAACP and starting to work on the Civil Rights Movement.
The interesting part of the article was her perspective on the changing mores in the 1960s. She talked about how when she was a teenager a girl who got pregnant would be discretely sent back to the South to “spend time with relatives” where she would have the baby, and then they would arrange for the young man to also go down there and marry her so they could come back to Chicago as husband and wife. She says that those kind of conservative values were common until about 1964 or 65, and then suddenly their whole neighborhood was gossiping because they had been invited to a baby shower for a young unmarried teen. There was apparently a fierce neighborhood debate among all the women about whether or not it would be proper for them to attend the shower. But then, according to the woman, by 1967 it was so common for a young woman to be pregnant out of wedlock that it was no longer commented upon or even deemed socially unacceptable. The point that astounded this woman is how quickly the mores of the black community changed. These days, of course, that neighborhood has a majority of children living in homes with only one parent, and it has become crime-ridden and dangerous. It was a fascinating read.
JVW (f932bd) — 12/8/2017 @ 12:22 pmJVW, I’m sure at some point you’ve heard Gerswhin’s Porgy and Bess. It takes place in the Charleston slums pre WWII, but the entire story, which revolves around Bess’s losing struggle with drug addiction, could easily be set in any inner city neighborhood of our own time. Yet the original story was a novel by DuBose Heyward published in 1925. I think the problems of the inner city were more widespread and go further back in time than that article makes them out to be.
Kishnevi (bb03e6) — 12/8/2017 @ 12:30 pmJVW,
encouraging people to believe daddy government would be there to take care of them was the biggest, most insidious lie the left ever told.
Modern day slavery by choice and inciting hatred of others to blame for those choices.
NJRob (06c9d1) — 12/8/2017 @ 12:35 pm#18, Liviticus, no, that’s not it at all. And, I object to your dishonest attempt to put your words in my mouth (ropelight would have us believe…) It’s the stock-in-trade of guttersnipes and two-bit shysters (like you who paint with an overly broad brush).
Your idiot claim that American whites enslaved ‘an entire race’ fails to account for many millions of free Africans resident on the African continent and around the world. But, it’s anger, shame, and racial animosity that drives your emotional responses, not intellect, reason or compassion.
Incidentally, pre war, most white families, both North and South didn’t own slaves, nor does my reference to ‘family values’ in any way even tangentially justify your scurrilous attempt to smear me with your racist assumptions.
Actually, what I had in mind was the work ethics of close knit Scotts-Irish families who refused slaves in favor of the more dependable and productive model of large family farming. Of which your public school indoctrination likely ignored or suppressed in order to incite the level of self lothing you regularly display.
ropelight (352cbe) — 12/8/2017 @ 12:43 pmRopelight, you’re forgetting all those Scots-Irish who pioneered in Alabama, Mississipi, Tennessee, and all the other western slave states, staking out plantations for themselves where they rose to become the slave owning aristocrats themselves. Andrew Jackson was one such, but not the only one by far. And you’re forgetting all the poorer Scots-Irish who stayed behind in the Carolinas and Virginia and Georgia but where willing to take up arms to defend a way of life whose foundation was race baced slavery. If they didn’t own at least one slave, it was usually because they were too poor to own one.
Kishnevi (bb03e6) — 12/8/2017 @ 12:53 pmI don’t disagree with your characterization of history, but it sounds like you just expect the Democrats to concede elections. Why is it not OK to highlight Moore’s past indiscretions and statements, and who besides Moore is among the “many people they will hurt” by doing so? If the Democrats had brought forward false witnesses themselves, Project Veritas style, that would indeed deserve condemnation. But some, if not all, of Moore’s accusers are Republicans, and they are not working for Moore’s opponent or the Democratic Party.
Agreed, although I wouldn’t characterize Moore’s “evil empire” problem in quite the same way.
There are plenty of Christians, Jews and Muslims who consider homosexuality wrong. To me what is most bizarre is his suggestion that a supposedly loving God cruelly took thousands of innocent lives, most of whom were not homosexuals, to punish us as a nation for tolerating homosexuals in our midst. (The God of the Old Testament was prepared to spare Sodom and Gomorrah if even ten righteous people could be found in them, and did not need to rely on 19 heathen to carry out his judgment…).
Moore’s statement literally says, bizarrely, that God punished the United States for not persecuting homosexuals – in God’s name – for their sins. But parts of the New Testament seem pretty clear that God doesn’t want or need our help in punishing those who sin, and wants us to worry about our own sins. Moore, on the other hand, seems very eager to cast the first stone…
Further, in 2001, gay marriage was not allowed anywhere in the United States, and the Defense of Marriage Act – the first explicit, nationwide proscription of gay marriage in the nation’s history – had just been passed five years earlier. You could even make a tongue-in-cheek argument that 9/11 was divine retribution for DOMA.
Dave (445e97) — 12/8/2017 @ 12:55 pmUPDATE: On Twitter, Phil Kerpen notes that the L.A. Times has posted audio that is not necessarily consistent with the story. It cuts off the beginning of the question but does not reveal the questioner asking when America was “last” great. Moore starts his reply with something the paper claims is totally inaudible but which I can decipher most of, and it is Moore saying: “you asked me [inaudible] when was it ever great?” That is different from when it was “last” great. It would be nice if they posted the whole question.
Patterico (156d0f) — 12/8/2017 @ 1:05 pm@65 JVW
This 2014 article from Heritage Foundation looks at how welfare programs, beginning with the “War on Poverty” in 1964, led to the explosion in poor, unwed mothers.
Chart 2 is particularly damning, and Chart 3 shows the surprising fact that the number of married couple families with children in the US has remained unchanged for over fifty years, while the number of single-parent families has more than tripled.
While it’s always dangerous to make post hoc ergo proptor hoc arguments, there is an easily identifiable mechanism at work in this case.
Dave (445e97) — 12/8/2017 @ 1:26 pmOne-line summary of the Heritage article could be:
“Poverty and unwed motherhood are not exceptions to the economic law that says when you subsidize something, you get more of it.”
Dave (445e97) — 12/8/2017 @ 1:31 pmSoutherners who talk like this about the more genteel days aren’t yearning for a return to slavery or segregation they don’t like the cultural rot 60’s progressive-ism and social justice have brought. Having said that Moore is the gift that keeps on giving.
crazy (d99a88) — 12/8/2017 @ 1:36 pmCrazy, yes–but for some of them, desegregation is part of the cultural rot.
kishnevi (5cc98a) — 12/8/2017 @ 2:49 pmTrue, but not nearly as many as non-southerners and post-modern social reformers think…
crazy (d99a88) — 12/8/2017 @ 4:13 pmMoore has a way of talking his way out of the positions of responsibility he fights so hard to attain. I don’t think he’ll last that long in this one either if he wins on Tuesday, but Alabama’s voters will decide.
crazy (d99a88) — 12/8/2017 @ 4:17 pmropelight studiously avoids admitting that his idea of “work ethic” apparently contemplates racial enslavement for purposes of manual labor.
Leviticus (c7071a) — 12/8/2017 @ 4:52 pm“It’s all psychological, really. That’s what creates greatness.” – President Donald J. Trump, Pensacola, FL, 12/8/2017
See- making America great again is all in his mind. And yours.
Suckers.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/8/2017 @ 5:26 pmYawn. Quote taken out of context. Anyhoo, I don’t see slavery coming back – so who cares?
rcocean (a72eb2) — 12/8/2017 @ 6:55 pmRace baiting and guttersnipping Liviticus? Is that what you’ve got? That and an unearned sense of entitlement.
ropelight (553db2) — 12/8/2017 @ 7:21 pm…there’s a problem lurking in the South African bush. Game rangers discovered that a new group of juvenile delinquents has been attacking and killing the white rhinoceros, the rhino they’ve spent years protecting.
In South Africa’s Pilanesberg Park, rhinos were thriving until an unknown killer began stalking them. Thirty-nine rhinos, 10 percent of the population in the park, were killed.
The killings clearly weren’t the work of poachers. The rhinos’ horns hadn’t been touched. The park rangers began conducting an investigation. Their first findings led them to believe that if they were to round up the usual suspects, they’d need a pretty large holding pen.
That’s because the prime suspects were not humans, but elephants. It turned out that young male elephants were behind the murders of Pilanesberg’s rhinos.
Why would they do it? Well, like juvenile delinquents, they had grown up without role models.
The problem goes back 20 years to South Africa’s largest conservation area, Kruger National Park. Kruger had too many elephants. In those days there was no way to relocate these large adults. So researchers decided to kill the adults and save the children, who were more easily transported to other parks.
The government veterinarian who originally approved the relocations, Dr. Hym Ebedes, said it was a good idea. He said that he considered the possibility that the young elephants might not adjust well, but that there was no other option.
The intentions may have been good but the program created a whole generation of traumatized orphans thrown together without any adults to teach them how to behave.
Years later those lonely orphans developed into troubled teen-agers. That’s when the killings at Pilanesberg Park began. Like a police departmenfacing a crime wave, the rangers photographed the murder scenes and put together rap sheets on the prime suspects, giving them each names.
One of the suspects was named Tom Thumb. “We’ve identified that Tom Thumb was in an area where coincidentally…a rhino mortality took place,” Van Dyk said. Tom Thumb was put under surveillance, but other elephants were caught red handed.
In addition to killing rhinos, they acted aggressively toward tourist vehicles. Researchers eventually decided to kill five of the elephants. They may have been juvenile delinquents but there’s no reform school for elephants…
Source
Pinandpuller (a29da4) — 12/8/2017 @ 8:46 pm“So… I’ve spent the last couple months relentless criticizing Roy Moore, who I still believe does not belong anywhere near the United States Senate, but after hearing the audio of his remarks in re “slavery” I have to say he’s been mischaracterized.” – Leon Wolf – The Blaze
harkin (bd8145) — 12/8/2017 @ 8:57 pmAlso – would be nice to have the update noted in the post title (as Dana’s Moore story does) and not only as an added-on final paragraph.
harkin (bd8145) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:33 pmSo what stories get covered with a pillow, until it stops moving:
narciso (d1f714) — 12/8/2017 @ 10:41 pmhttps://legalinsurrection.com/2017/12/u-s-embassy-victims-in-cuba-have-brain-abnormalities/
Wow. The third rail if there ever was one. Teeth first.
Kevin M (752a26) — 12/9/2017 @ 12:31 amWhy bring the subject of slavery up? For any reason except to condemn it.
As for American greatness, why not talk about World War II or standing fast against godless communism or something?
Kevin M (752a26) — 12/9/2017 @ 12:34 amso why even post it if you can’t verify if its true? Is Moore such a bad candidate they you don’t feel he deserves a chance at complete, objective, verified accusations? I mean this is bizarre and even scary. You’re stating you can’t trust the source, yet you criticize anyone who would criticize the source & the unverified quote, then you post people who agree with an unverified quote, that you admit may be taken out of context.
Your post of this and how its framed, is as much a headline and the “supposed” quote and what it means about Moore’s character. Have all media outlets and talented blog critics of society lost any sense of verifying sources or due process?
as per your words: “I have a have a long and well-documented history of distrusting the Los Angeles Times, and this quote is a) truncated, b) not presented in full context, and c) unaccompanied by any video I could find. (If you can find video, let me know.) But on the other hand, Roy Moore also has a documented history of saying boneheaded things in a blatant attempt to appeal to small-minded bigots, which makes it more difficult to reject this as #FAKENEWS.”
so if I agree its fake news, especially after you preamble, I am a “small-minded bigot”. ???
I am just astonished at this post-rationaization & rationalist gymnastics to validate your support (since you ran with it and criticize anyone who doesn’t believe it as “a bigot” no less) of an unverified quote when you know large amounts of the media and the political class have been using unsubstantiated, and if not FALSE, in some cases admittedly FALSE accusations against Moore.
all around, it is just sad & scary times we live in.
Where Eagles Dare (8f562c) — 12/9/2017 @ 5:36 amIts a matter of perspective, wad, luckily kerpen doesn’t reflexively jump to the wrong conclusion.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/9/2017 @ 6:09 am89
i hope you pathetic post was not directed at me. You really can’t respond to someone’s post without posting an insult and reverting to dirty name-calling?
so you use “wad” and others use “small-minded bigot”.
wow you guys really show how you use facts and analysis to find the truth in today’s chaotic world , which still includes public witch-burnings.
“…doesn’t reflexively jump to the wrong conclusion…”
really how so? he still leaves the offensive and unsubstantiated comment that those who defend Moore or call the quote “fake” are “small-minded bigots”.
I fully stand by what I wrote. You on the other hand are offensive, subjective, bigoted & biased.
you are exactly the proof that all around, it is just sad & scary times we live in.
with people like you it is easy to see why we have injustice in the world for so long with not much hope for injustice subsiding in the near future.
cheers & good day.
Where Eagles Dare (8f562c) — 12/9/2017 @ 6:31 amTake a chill pill, I agree with you, honestly its like its groundhog day, we expect that there media malpractice will not continue.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/9/2017 @ 6:35 amnarciso was not insulting you, sir. “wad” is just the acronym for “where eagles dare.” Narciso, maybe you should have capitalized the three letters as a sign of due respect?
felipe (023cc9) — 12/9/2017 @ 6:46 amOh, wait “wed” not “wad.” Maybe “WED” has a point.
felipe (023cc9) — 12/9/2017 @ 6:48 amI should have been clearer, and capitalized, thanks Felipe.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/9/2017 @ 6:50 amIt was bound to happen sooner or later narciso. I know that I must have offended Kishnevi the first time I called him “Kish.” Also, Colonel Haiku took offense when Steve67 first called him “coronello.” Welcome to the club.
felipe (023cc9) — 12/9/2017 @ 6:55 amSteve57, not Steve67. Please do not bust me with one of your Indian clubs, steve57.
felipe (023cc9) — 12/9/2017 @ 6:59 amropelight studiously avoids admitting that his idea of “work ethic” apparently contemplates racial enslavement for purposes of manual labor.
He just gropes without directional signals.
Admiral Ben Bunson Burner (b3d5ab) — 12/9/2017 @ 7:17 amDid I hear that right? Roy Moore in 2011 agreed that all Constitutional Amendments after the 10th could be removed to “eliminate many problems”? Oh boy. That might be of interest to minorities, women and those under 21… among others. Add that declaration to the good ol’ days of slavery comment and you could have yourself a real special US Senator. MAGA.
OK, Roy Moore defenders. That’s your cue to tell us how the Judge is talking above our heads. He is speaking about complex Constitutional issues that we cannot possibly understand.
I know I can’t understand him.
noel (b4d580) — 12/11/2017 @ 8:26 amSurprsi fly you didn’t, now keep on caroling.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/11/2017 @ 8:28 amHow could a West Point graduate who was later Chief Justice be expected to know how such comments would come across?
noel (b4d580) — 12/11/2017 @ 8:42 amEvery state, and the federal government (in U.S. possessions and territories and as it relates to interstate commerce), could grant all the rights granted to minorities, women and persons under the age of 21 by legislation. Many states and the federal government had done so before the ratification of the various Amendments.
Read a little history. The end of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade? Free states prior to the Civil War? The Emancipation Proclamation? States with universal franchise before the voting amendments? The only Amendments we needed were the ones relating to the election of the Vice-President.
nk (dbc370) — 12/11/2017 @ 9:11 amnk says,
“Every state, and the federal government…. could grant all the rights granted to minorities, women and persons under the age of 21 by legislation.”
“Could”
noel (b4d580) — 12/11/2017 @ 10:06 amDemocracy only once, eh? The rest of the time a “living Constitution” amended by a 5-4 vote of the Supreme Court?
nk (dbc370) — 12/11/2017 @ 10:09 amKayla Moore On Anti-Semitism Claims: ‘One Of Our Attorneys Is A Jew’
“Fake news would tell you that we don’t care for Jews,” Kayla Moore said. “I tell you all this because I’ve seen it also; I just want to set the record straight while they’re here. One of our attorneys is a Jew. We have very close friends who are Jewish and rabbis, and we also fellowship with them.”
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kayla-moore-anti-semitism-jew-lawyer_us_5a2f1e50e4b01598ac476c58?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
=blink= Wow.
And what color are your lawn jockeys, Sugar Tits?
DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/11/2017 @ 8:31 pmFelipe@95
You didn’t offend me.
“Call me anything you want. Just don’t call me late for dinner.”
kishnevi (f594bb) — 12/11/2017 @ 8:51 pmwe also fellowship with them.”
???
kishnevi (f594bb) — 12/11/2017 @ 8:58 pmI thought “fellowship with them” meant “attend worship services with them” in Evangelical talk. And I doubt Mrs. Moore attends synagogue that often. Does she mean people like Sekulow who are Christian converts.
I think it means more like joining the company softball league. Or maybe frequenting particular blogs. THings we do together more than a part and parcel of religous services.
Like the Flintstones Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo.
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/11/2017 @ 9:51 pmThere’s only one ring, but we need a whole crew to throw it back in the fires of Mount Doom.
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/11/2017 @ 9:54 pmThis is actually a recycling of a story first reported by the Los Angeles Times in September.
The claim about the constitutional amendments (reported by CNN on Monday but I doubt unearthed by them) came in one or two interviews in 2011 a radio show called “Aroostook Watchmen” He was particularly opposed to the 14th amendment.
Roy Moore had done other things, like having his “Foundation for Moral law” hosting Secession Day celebrations both in 2009 and 2010. (This from New York Times columnist Michelle Goldberg – the one who said things agianst Clinton now – I think that she believed Juanita Broderick))
She doesn’t realize that by being accurate as to the timing, she’s undermining some of the effect.
Sammy Finkelman (69aa73) — 12/12/2017 @ 9:28 am