Patterico's Pontifications

9/14/2017

Report: Trump Considering “Fixing” Rather than Repealing ObamaCare

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:00 am



The Hill:

President Trump was “open” to the idea of a bipartisan ObamaCare stabilization bill but did not make any commitments during a meeting Wednesday with a group of House lawmakers, attendees said.

The bipartisan group of lawmakers, known as the Problem Solvers, pitched Trump on their plan to stabilize ObamaCare markets.

“He was clearly open to it, intrigued,” said Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-N.J.), a co-chair of the group.

Gottheimer said there was some discussion of the possibility that Democrats could call the bill a “fix” and Republicans could call it something else.

“I’ll call it a fix, others will call it what they want, but it matters less about what you call it than actually what it is,” Gottheimer said. “He was very intrigued by that.”

I’m not inclined to engage in a round of “I told you so” with this.

For one thing, it’s hard to know what to make of this. First of all, the only named source here is a Democrat, and the nature of what he is describing is vague.

And from what we know about Donald Trump, it doesn’t seem like much of a pivot. For one thing, he tends not to have terribly consistent messages about policy issues, and often puts himself on several sides of the same issue. In any event, he does not seem to have a deep-rooted philosophical opposition to using government to provide health care. He said during the campaign that he likes the ObamaCare mandate and that he wanted to use government to provide health care for all.

Yes, to the extent this story is accurate, it could be seen as a reversal of his oft-stated position that he was going to let ObamaCare implode. But that was a silly thing to say anyway. Republicans are in charge. They don’t get to let things implode and blame others for it.

What this highlights, more than anything, is the GOP’s failure to pass a genuine ObamaCare repeal. Trump would have signed one. To the extent that we’re now talking about a “fix” rather than repeal, the responsibiity for that lies on the shoulders of turncoats like McCain, Murkowski, Alexander, Heller, Capito, and Portman. (For an explanation as to why I am naming those names, see here.)

I’m sure many will seize upon this story as evidence that Trump is pivoting towards greater cooperation with Democrats. On a day when Trump is upsetting a lot of Trump supporters by confirming his support for a DACA deal that does not include funding for a wall, that interpretation would be a natural one to reach. But I think that interpretation would be a bit lazy and not entirely accurate. So I’m not going there.

P.S. I should add that I’m also not inclined in engage in a round of “I told you so” with respect to the DACA deal with Democrats. I have said that a legislative fix for the DREAMers issue may be appropriate, but creates a potential problem of unintended consequences. Still, a legislative fix is better than the unconstitutional diktat put out by President Obama. As for the lack of wall funding, I never took Trump that seriously about the wall or anything else. It’s not as though the immigration situation would be better under Hillary Clinton, for goodness’s sake. And illegal border crossings have been down — something that probably would not have happened under Hillary.

I just don’t see this as the event that will cause me to jump up on the table and call everyone who supported Trump a sucker. Frankly, I’m not sure any event would. I don’t see most Trump voters as suckers. I see them as people who selected the lesser of two evils.

Sure, there are some over-the-top abrasive types who loudly invested themselves in Trump and obnoxiously denounced anyone who wasn’t aboard the Trump train. I admit to being amused by the tears of some of those people — and the attempts by others to pretend that they never became that invested in him. To the extent my friends are calling some Trump supporters suckers, I suspect this is the type they’re talking about. The #MAGA “everyone who criticizes Trump is a wussy wimpy wussy wuss!” type of cheerleader. Those people know who they are, and today they are a little embarrassed.

But most Trump supporters are just good people who are used to being disappointed by government. They’re trying to do the best they can. If they’re disappointed yet again, they can handle it. I suspect that describes most of you.

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

82 Responses to “Report: Trump Considering “Fixing” Rather than Repealing ObamaCare”

  1. John McCain’s a dirty liar

    he lied to the voters in arizona and promised to repeal obamacare

    but he’s a filthy dirty liar and now everyone hates his stupid war hero guts

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  2. I got some “I told ya so” this morning at the donut shop, to someone who had called me “cuckservative”.

    SPQR (240837)

  3. Friends & neighbors who’ve supported Trump, this is our host extending olive branches to you with both arms.

    Some of you — the intemperate and probably incontinent ones — will just spew away as usual. But I hope thinking Trump supporters who’ve criticized our host for not supporting Trump to your specifications might reconsider his, and your own, stances.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  4. @ SPQR (#2): That silly made-up word, that baby-talk, that “cuck” nonsense, flashed into my head this morning too.

    My dad was in the Navy. He taught me how to cuss. He taught me, in fact, that the very best insults don’t rely on profanity, and that profanity is only a crutch that saves time. We never discussed made-up baby-talk insults like “cuck,” though, because it would never have occurred to him that such juvenile vocabulary could be taken seriously by any adult.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  5. Beldar, come by, I’ll buy the donuts.

    SPQR (240837)

  6. @Beldar:But I hope thinking Trump supporters who’ve criticized our host for not supporting Trump to your specifications

    A small percentage of the people who have criticized Patterico’s coverage of Trump might have done so for this reason, being insufficiently supportive of Trump. I do not speak for supporters of Trump, because I don’t consider myself to be one. But this sort of characterization of the nature of the disagreement is part of why there is a disagreement. There are many reasons why, but from what I see in the comments, the criticism is usually insufficient skepticism of the media narrative du jour regarding Trump. Sometimes this comes from people who do wholeheartedly support Trump, and sometimes it comes from people who reluctantly decided he was the least worst on offer.

    But if you disagree, well the best way to demonstrate that is to ask people who are being critical why they are, and I bet if you do, you will find there is more diversity in those answers than you seem, from your comment, to think is there.

    Frederick (26d43f)

  7. cuck’s a word what’s been passed down through the ages

    it’s part of our rich linguistic patrimony

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  8. I can’t wait until Chuck and Nancy explain single-payer to him.

    Especially the part about how Obama TRIED but FAILED to get it signed into law…

    Dave (445e97)

  9. I am disappointed in Trump’s approach to leadership and that he obviously does not care about the things he campaigned on.I

    I wanted a President who would work to influence the GOP Congress instead of treat them like inconvenient, annoying baggage. It doesn’t matter what Congress is. What matters is what the GOP is, and Trump is the leader and policy-maker of the GOP.

    DRJ (15874d)

  10. no matter what you think about President Trump he promised to repeal obamacare and he wanted to sign a bill to do that

    cowardly John McCain on the other hand

    with his sad and glaring character defects and his complete lack of honor

    he was actually considered a presidential nominee once

    he’s a filthy liar full stop

    no matter what you think about President Trump he’s a class act compared to a dirty lying war hero like John McCain

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  11. “….Trump is the leader and policy-maker of the GOP.”

    Nominally. Someone would actually have to be following him to make it true and, given his complete inability to clearly articulate an actual direction or purpose, a Magic 8 Ball would serve as well.

    Rick Ballard (1eda47)

  12. First Beldar, I’d like to say I always thought Patterico was anti Trump, not anti Hoagie. I always believed he understood why I switched my allegiance to Trump after the primary and why I now support Trump if I believe him to be vexing to the left. I don’t buy most of what Trump says but I don’t buy most of what most politicians say.

    DRJ, I agree with this: “I wanted a President who would work to influence the GOP Congress instead of treat them like inconvenient, annoying baggage. It doesn’t matter what Congress is. What matters is what the GOP is, and Trump is the leader and policy-maker of the GOP.”

    My problem is the GOP Congress was instrumental in the neverTrump movement. How can Trump work with a GOP Congress that won’t support him? They have not only become inconvenient, annoying baggage to Trump but they have become the same to many of us little people out here in Amercaland. I’m afraid in order to “show” Trump who’s boss they’ll end up losing Congress and do irreparable harm to America by paving the way for the radical left to move in to the Capitol and tear down statues they don’t like, disable free speech as “hate” and confiscate guns. Right this minute the left is busy passing local laws to allow non-citizens to vote in local elections. If their methods remain historically the same by next year they’ll pass laws to codify “sanctuary cities” and allow illegals to vote in federal elections too. It’s how they work and you know it. A little erosion at a time.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  13. I never expected a wall…..stiff penalties for employers of illegals would be more effective. The GOP, led by Trump or not, will never pass such legislation, nor will they address the deficit, spending, or a simplified tax code.

    At this point, I see no difference between Democrats and Republicans. As a conservative, I feel like a drowning man at sea, grasping at ephemeral lifelines. And I worry about the future for my children.

    Lenny (5ea732)

  14. @Lenny:stiff penalties for employers of illegals would be more effective

    Doesn’t work. It’s not illegal to employ illegals. Provided the illegals have submitted documents, the employer is not allowed to refuse to hire them. If the employer participates in E-Verify, then months after the illegal is hired and E-Verify can’t confirm work eligibility (or the employee refuse cooperation), the employer might choose to terminate them, but the have the legal right to continue to employ them.

    Frederick (64d4e1)

  15. illegals have tuberculosis

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  16. The responsibility for this lies in the hands of the House Freedom Caucus, which killed the only viable bill offered (Ryan’s). After that it was a lot of posturing for the hard core crowd who had signed on to the Repeal bandwagon during previous grandstanding episodes.

    There were reasons that Obamacare passed in the first place, and those reasons remain. Obamacare piled a lot of crap on top of those reasons, but repealing everything and going back to a HATED system will never fly. But every Senate plan and the HFC plan pretending that they would. They didn’t.

    BTW, if you respond to this, state whether you get your healthcare from the individual marketplace. If you don’t and are offering Principled Conservatism ™, I’ll just say that you’re pretty principled with other people’s lives.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  17. I would like to see one simple repeal: repeal the tax immunity for employer-paid health insurance. This is a conservative principle of mine.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  18. Wait, what?

    I just went back and read that post more fully. Patterico seems to have mellowed quite a bit about Trump lately. Or maybe I’ve been getting more cynical. Anyway. we are coming closer to agreement now.

    The main problem with Trump is a giant lost opportunity, coupled with a slandering of the Right. But once you get past that, it’s just the swamp, again. Nothing to see here, move along.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  19. What is “tax immunity”?

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  20. The #MAGA “everyone who criticizes Trump is a wussy wimpy wussy wuss!” type of cheerleader. Those people know who they are, and today they are a little embarrassed.

    I am temped to use the word term “cuck” however.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  21. Hoagie,

    I don’t want to play semantic games, but it involves income that is not taxed. That it is not paid to you, but on your behalf does not mean it isn’t income. You pay income tax on other income that is paid to others (FICA, some life insurance, etc).

    Kevin M (752a26)

  22. BTW, anyone see Molotov or von Ribbentrop lately?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  23. I don’t want to play “semantic games” either but words have meanings and I was unclear as to what you meant by *tax immunity*. You have clarified it to mean the employee should have to pay taxes on it because it is a form of income paid to him by his employer. Correct? If so I concur.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  24. @3. “This is Radio Moscow. The stores are flush with bathroom tissue in East Berlin.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  25. I’m sure many will seize upon this story as evidence that Trump is pivoting towards greater cooperation with Democrats.

    Our Captain may be a few strawberries short of a quart, but knows to tack port and starboard to progress along a course charted into the wind.

    “Hey you scratched my anchor!” – Al Czervik [Rodney Dangerfield] ‘Caddyshack’ 1980

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  26. I was told I would be getting tired of all the winning

    Mitch (341ca0)

  27. Heh. It’s half right, Mitch.

    DRJ (15874d)

  28. I’ll believe it when I see some legislation actually in the pipeline. The Democrats have all the incentive in the world to troll Trump and Republicans like crazy–if he goes along with what the Democrats want, they win and make his base furious. If he blows his top and decides to Twitter abuse Chuck and Nancy while rejecting the deal(s), then they use that to churn up the TDS in their base.

    M. Scott Eiland (1edade)

  29. Our esteemed host wrote:

    What this highlights, more than anything, is the GOP’s failure to pass a genuine ObamaCare repeal. Trump would have signed one.

    The Republicans did not campaign on a straight repeal; they campaigned on ‘repeal and replace.’ Since they couldn’t agree on the replacement, the repeal couldn’t get done. Further, I very seriously doubt that President Trump would have signed a straight repeal.

    I’ve said it before, that there are only three options:

    1 – Some form of single-payer system;
    2 – Some form of universal coverage using the existing private insurance system, as Obysmalcare does; or
    3 – Ending the government guarantee of health care coverage.

    With the replacement campaign, the Republicans conceded that option number 3 was off the table; they were not going to take coverage away from people, many of whom voted for them.

    Unless you are going to move toward single-payer, all that you have left is option number 2; that’s what the AHCA was, and that’s what a ‘fix’ of Obumblecare is. And even Republicans were calling the AHCA ‘Obamacare Lite.’ There’s no sense in objecting to fixing Obaminablecare if you supported some form of the AHCA!

    Let’s tell the truth here: about half of Republican voters want the federal guarantee of health care coverage repealed, and if you cannot or will not pay for health care coverage, you don’t get it. But the other half want to see some sort of government guarantee, but just hate the way the ACA did it, with a subset of them hating it solely because the name Obamacare got hung on it.

    The soberly realistic Dana (ca408e)

  30. Mr feet wrote:

    no matter what you think about President Trump he promised to repeal obamacare and he wanted to sign a bill to do that

    Actually, no. What Mr Trump promised was a health care system that would cover everybody, and at a lower cost. He did not promise a repeal only.

    The Dana who remembers (ca408e)

  31. The only truly different health care proposal President Trump could devise is some form of single-payer. Though he has promised to veto Bernie Sanders’ Medicare for All proposal, my belief is that he will adopt some form of Medicare for All before his first term is up.

    The Dana who understands the options (ca408e)

  32. You dont have to be a Trump Supremacist or a Trump Traitor.

    You can be a Trump Realist.

    “It’s the only way to be!” The Sex Pistols

    Pinandpuller (d92660)

  33. Further to what the eminent Dana Who has posted (with which I am in general agreement, again), here’s Trump on CBS’ Sixty Minutes program on September 27, 2015 (boldface mine):

    Scott Pelley: What’s your plan for Obamacare?

    Donald Trump: Obamacare’s going to be repealed and replaced. Obamacare is a disaster if you look at what’s going on with premiums where they’re up 45, 50, 55 percent.

    Scott Pelley: How do you fix it?

    Donald Trump: There’s many different ways, by the way. Everybody’s got to be covered. This is an un-Republican thing for me to say because a lot of times they say, “No, no, the lower 25 percent that can’t afford private.” But–

    Scott Pelley: Universal health care?

    Donald Trump: I am going to take care of everybody. I don’t care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody’s going to be taken care of much better than they’re taken care of now.

    Scott Pelley: The uninsured person is going to be taken care of how?

    Donald Trump: They’re going to be taken care of. I would make a deal with existing hospitals to take care of people. And, you know what, if this is probably–

    Scott Pelley: Make a deal? Who pays for it?

    Donald Trump: –the government’s gonna pay for it. But we’re going to save so much money on the other side. But for the most it’s going to be a private plan and people are going to be able to go out and negotiate great plans with lots of different competition with lots of competitors with great companies and they can have their doctors, they can have plans, they can have everything.

    There’s your promise of single-payor health care right there, less ambiguously even than Bernie’s “Medicare for All” nonsense. Trump will say — indeed has already said — anything to anyone any time, depending on what he thinks is best for the Trump Brand. Pretending that he has a position, or that he might actually “adopt” one (to use Dana Who’s very reasonable phrasing), is over-optimistic and gives him undue credit. He’d sign anything Congress would give him as long as he could claim credit in order to improve the Trump Brand, whether the bill was authored by the Freedom Caucus or by Bernie Sanders.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  34. Some form of universal coverage using the existing private insurance system, as Obysmalcare does

    The Ryan plan, as outlined for those that cared to read it, was the first of several stages to move us to a single-market system where everyone chose their own insurance and employers’ only choices were how much, if any, to subsidize those premiums (with taxable income). Deductions or credits for medical expenses, however they got set up could compensate for that taxability, but be fairly applied by the self-employed as well.

    And of course governments and charities would be free to offer help to the poor.

    This isn’t optimum — returning to the system of the 1950s would be better, but that ship has sunk.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  35. It sort of raises a question of “Why’s it always got to be about [Trump] with “you people”?”

    Pinandpuller (d92660)

  36. The simplest thing is to expand Medicare to cover everyone, just not the Bernie Sanders way. Raise the Medicare tax to somewhere around 20%, with 50% of that falling on the employer, the same way it is done now. That way, everybody winds up paying something for health care coverage.

    Employers would love it! Why? Because they’ll get to dump even more expensive private health insurance plans, and at a 10% share, you’re looking at employees making over $120,000 a year before it becomes more expensive than what they are paying now for health insurance. Individuals wouldn’t be thrilled, but they’d lose their health insurance premiums, which would make up much of the difference.

    The people who would protest the loudest would be businesses which did not provide health insurance, along with those who get their health insurance without paying any premiums that they can see.

    This won’t be easy to achieve, but it would end Medicaid, end SCHIP, end triCare, and it would put every business in the country on an equal footing.

    I am under no illusions that our health care system will be better; I expect lower quality, because Medicare will have to impose cost controls, like the single-payer systems everywhere else.

    The Dana who supports a single-payer system (albeit reluctantly) (ca408e)

  37. Anyone who has navigated the hospital/Dr gauntlet recently will tell you the state of healthcare in the US is sub-par in spite of ridiculous costs accrued from even a short stay. Talk about unsustainable…

    Ben burn (84dd36)

  38. Actually, I have “navigated the hospital/Dr gauntlet recently,” and I received care that was both prompt and excellent. Of course, I had excellent insurance.

    Plus, the nurses were amazingly cute!

    The Dana with Crohn's Disease (ca408e)

  39. my belief is that he will adopt some form of Medicare for All before his first term is up.

    Here is a “Medicare for All” proposal that I might support:

    You can opt for Medicare at any age. To do so, you will accept a (COLAed) premium that is increased from the normal starting premium for each year early you sign up AND once you sign up you cannot quit without losing your future Medicare rights.

    Younger participants who pay more forever. Depending on who signs up, it could help Medicare survive.

    It’s also whole-life medical. Be interesting if private companies would compete.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  40. Mr M wrote:

    Be interesting if private companies would compete.

    They’ll be selling Medicare supplemental insurance, to make up for the crap care we’ll get under Medicare. Sachi ab Hugh described how that works in Japan.

    The Dana who realizes that health care quality will fall under single-payer (ca408e)

  41. I’m glad your experience was without anxiety over incompetent Dr and administration. Nurses are fantastic.

    Ben burn (84dd36)

  42. this here’s a goddamn slow news day is what it is

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  43. They’ll be selling Medicare supplemental insurance, to make up for the crap care we’ll get under Medicare.

    Yep. Everyone will have lousy healthcare where you can see your doctor for three minutes once a year. So those who can afford it will supplement their government insurance by seeking out private care from all those doctors who will abandon the Medicare system. The left will then respond by demanding that doctors be prevented from seeing patients outside of the system, just as Canada did for years until it became untenable up north. Sixty percent of Americans will by then not even bat an eye at the idea that the government can prevent doctors from working in a private system, having been thoroughly indoctrinated into the idea that government regulation is needed to tame the nasty free market. At least I got to spend half of my life in the free market capitalistic system.

    JVW (42615e)

  44. I was going to mention Trump’s original and actual position on health care, but I see Beldar already quoted him. Trump wants single-payer. Obamacare is probably a best case scenario now, and Trump’s going to put the GOP brand on it. Those of us who fundamentally do not believe this is the role of the federal government (either a mandate to buy insurance or a universal socialist system) are simply without a political party.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  45. In some alternate universe we have President Cruz, South Korea is struggling with the reunification, Iran is hanging mullahs, and Putin has been impeached. Still the Dreamers who arrived under the age of 8 are being allowed to stay but Mexico now allows US ownership of property anywhere in Mexico. Some things were always going to happen.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  46. At least I got to spend half of my life in the free market capitalistic system.

    When was that? Since 1932 we’ve only had that for a few brief shining moments.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  47. 45 – “this here’s a goddamn slow news day is what it is”

    Just finished watching the last hour or so of the live cast of Ben Shapiro at Berkeley.

    Not sure how things went outside but inside it was cordial and respectful and free speech existed for a bit at the home of the Free Speech Movement (although it appears the school sabotaged the amount of people admitted).

    Maybe not big news but it was encouraging, especially the amount of self-identified liberals saying they agreed with Shapiro’s right to speak.

    The one discouraging thing was that students of an elite school with very demanding entrance requirements should be more articulate, the amount of mumbling and lack of command of basic speaking skills of many asking questions was striking.

    harkin (52aafa)

  48. the Associated Press fake news propaganda sluts felt Mr. Shapiro’s speech merited live coverage all day – six updates so far

    Eighteen-year-old high school senior Nick Handley says he tried to get others to come to Berkeley with him from Modesto, about 90 miles (145 kilometers) east of San Francisco.

    But he says they were scared about the potential violence outside the speech by Shapiro dubbed Campus Thuggery.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  49. @ Dana Who … Reluctantly (#39): Your comment is clear-eyed and realistic about the likelihoods, I very much fear, and your reasoning is expressed clearly. I’m not with you in supporting single payer or even in dropping my opposition to it yet, reluctantly or otherwise. But frankly, I’m equally pessimistic about the chances of anything else but single-payer, in one form or another, coming out of this mess in the short, middle, or long-middle term.

    What’s still left of health insurance as an actuarial and medical risk underwriting industry will be destroyed, irreversibly, as was always the intention of the writers of Obamacare. Obamacare was the Trojan Horse that will defeat the American healthcare and health insurance industries as surely as the Greek’s Trojan Horse defeated Troy. If insurance companies survive at all, it will be as contract paper-pushers, government contractors doing administrative work of claims handling and delivering grim news. Maybe the news will be about that CT scan that you could have gotten in 2005 or 2015, but can’t get in 2020 because your symptoms only scored 38 out the required 55 points on the Care Rationing and Prioritizing (“CRAP”) Index. If you can manage to break your collarbone while you’re suffering from your concussion, though, you might be lucky enough to boost your CRAP Index sufficiently to get your CT scan. Or you can fly to a medical tourist destination that takes cash. Maybe one of those places in India or Indonesia that also lets you trade in your healthy kidneys to pay for your room and airfare.

    If any country with single-payer government healthcare has successfully privatized it, I’m not aware of that. Our national population, with its greater heterogeneity and demographics, will settle down at levels of rationing less generous than many European countries. We will have shared scarcity with ever diminishing innovations and improvements in quality and scope of care over time — static, rationed, and generally discouraging medical care. Not Medicare for All, but the VA (At Its Worst) for All.

    And in the short term, I’ve effectively given up all hope that the White House can even tread water, and I never had any hope that Trump could actually be an effective leader on any difficult matters of national domestic policy. Trump has now created an effective gridlock — divided government — within the Party that nominally holds the White House and majorities in both the Senate and House. Gridlock — between the Republicans in Congress whom Trump is busy betraying, and Trump/Pelosi/Schumer — that’s the best case scenario that I can see as of today, if he persists in abandoning his “positions” (or at least, what he sold his marks on believing were his positions) and “making deals” to please his new BFFs, Nancy and Chuckie.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  50. OT, but wow! I enjoy reading these comments so very much more with certain commenters on mute. I misunderestimated the continuing pleasure it would give me to see the frequency of each such blocked commenters’ comments, without having to read any of the text of those comments. Thanks again, felipe! And I hope our host will consider the idea of a permalink on his sidebar with a walk-through (including some screenshots) for how the script can be installed and used.

    Also OT: The last play of tonight’s NFL game between the Texans and the Bengals was genuinely entertaining to watch; start at 1:26 in this 2:24-long NFL highlight reel. I think something like 99.7% of Houston is seriously crushing on J.J. Watt right now, while he’s still “crushing it” on the field and in his Hurricane Harvey Relief fundraising. As Chris Collinsworth said, this year’s Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year Award is already all but over by Week 2, with Watt the winner by pre-acclamation. IMHO he’s far and away the very best thing the NFL has going for it this fall, on or off the field. What a mensch.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  51. R.I.P. NASA’s Cassini Spacecraft

    Launched from Earth, 10-15-97; intentionally vaporized in Saturn’s atmosphere, 9-15-17.

    It literally just ran out of gas.

    Twenty years of stellar performance returning knowledge and imagery literally out of this world. Worth every cent spent. Take a look:

    https://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/galleries/images

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  52. Beldar, not to mention the last play of the game where laid out the Bengals center at the same time he caught about the 10th lateral pass between his teammates.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  53. @14 Frederick

    Yes, it doesn’t work now. I said “would be” in the off chance, as in a “Hail Mary pass”, that Congress would enact legislation to provide stiff penalties for employers of illegals.

    Lenny (5ea732)

  54. If you keep the individual and employer mandate, you are “fixing” Obamacare; if you get rid of hem, you are repealing and replacing it.

    Every proposal has inners nd losers, and/or some people left out in the lurch. Any good law will , at least initially, break all budget caps, and can’t be scored.

    Sammy Finkelman (05c938)

  55. here this is a good innovate and the blower comes with!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  56. Beldar, not to mention the last play of the game where laid out the Bengals center at the same time he caught about the 10th lateral pass between his teammates”

    But oh! all those hail Mary passes and receptions and their opponents were in the locker room at halftime..

    It’s a sweet victory playing against yoursekf.

    Ben burn (7e5fb8)

  57. Rumors are that ICE is paying rewards to the poor for selling out the poor.

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/motel-6-calling-ice-undocumented-guests-phoenix-immigration-lawyers-9683244

    Ben burn (7e5fb8)

  58. https://www.axios.com/trumps-new-world-2485403167.html

    Remember, to the ears of immigration hardliners, Trump’s tweets Thursday would have sounded like something Marco Rubio might have said during the Gang of Eight fight.
    Instead of being able to march into the Oval Office and hand Trump the latest Breitbart headline or printouts of tweets showing how badly his amnesty drive is playing with his fiercest nationalist supporters, aides opposing the decision would now have to go through the Kelly process, which would involve submitting an official, documented, request to meet with the president.

    Ben burn (7e5fb8)

  59. 61, are you sure that operation is less an ICE operation and more of the Trumpaic plank of carving out the Indian-American community from its islamic and yellow co-habitants of the “Asian” community bloc? This, as I posted in the DACAn threads might be a better use of resources than a wall that might be more of a Maginot line, as illegal immigrants might take to the boats (and make Forrest Gump and Lt. Dan come to blows during the slow part of the shrimping season).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  60. Urban..

    I think the motel managers have their own wall of containment (chains of living at place of work) and the jealousy boils over from their captivity.

    Ben burn (7e5fb8)

  61. Beldar:

    NFL Man of the Year Award is already all but over by Week 2, with Watt the winner by pre-acclamation. IMHO he’s far and away the very best thing the NFL has going for it this fall, on or off the field. What a mensch.

    You betcha. He’s a cutie-patootie with integrity, good with dogs, kids and little old ladies like me.

    Marci (b7b42a)

  62. Ben, those guys probably overhear all the “naps” that go on between amantes, and wonder when its their turn at the arranged marriage cue.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  63. Ditto re JJ Watts. He’s the football hero I grew up loving, albeit they were Cowboys and not Texans.

    DRJ (15874d)

  64. Beldar, your CRAP Index is hilarious and they really should name it that. The words are right and the acronym is perfect.

    As for the substance of your comment, regretfully, I think what will happen is what is happening in K-12 education. People who can afford to pay for private concierge medical care or for-pay clinics will do so, while the rest will be stuck with public options. The differences in the quality of care between those two groups will increase, and there will be an even greater disparity in care and outcomes. But liberals won’t have to feel guilty anymore so there is that.

    DRJ (15874d)

  65. Apparently the local NBC affiliate cut away before Watts’ final play that ended the game. I’m happy for the Texans but I also like the Cincinnati QB, Andy Dalton aka Big Red, a Katy native and former TCU QB.

    DRJ (15874d)

  66. Is Dalton by chance related to Craig James (Houston Memorial, SMU, NE Patriots, subject to salacious rumors and helicopter dad); they seem to have the same facial visage.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  67. No, the other one, who has a home in the berkshires

    narciso (364166)

  68. in a ruling with national impact, a federal judge in Chicago on Friday blocked the Trump administration’s rules requiring so-called sanctuary cities to cooperate with immigration agents in order to get a public safety grant.

    Los Angeles hardest hit

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  69. Beldar (fa637a) — 9/14/2017 @ 11:13 pm

    I am elated that there are others in the “HOV” lane with me. You understand, now, the satisfaction of passing so many vehicles road-raged by inconsiderate drivers. I think can spy at least one of them mouthing “What, you think yer better’n me?” in my rear view mirror.

    felipe (023cc9)

  70. I don’t think so, urban, but I like that you know about James’ history as a football Dad.

    DRJ (15874d)

  71. this seems to be some kind of black republican texas flameout

    i used to hang out there when i was little, them counties

    that was the most racist place i ever lived my whole life until Chicago

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  72. Something happen, with that former Fighting Illini, figures…no way a Bolingbrook, Thornton or Simeon could produce that dude.

    urbanleftbehind (27010b)

  73. @59. Ben, Texans do love their football. And football, as we- and the NFL- know, causes life-long brain injury.

    “Baseball been berry, berry good to me.” – Chico Escuela [Garrett Morris] SNL, NBC TV, 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  74. Craig James was also the vote sink for people who liked Ted but didn’t like Cruz if you catch my drift.

    urbanleftbehind (27010b)

  75. He was a constant presence in the clubs and stage-equipped bars of Minneapolis and St. Paul, floating through crowds whether he was performing, often solo with a guitar, or not.

    yup sounds like a goddamn commie to me

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  76. @59. Ben, it remains an endless source of amusement that our Beldar’s persona was so aptly quilled and performed… by a New Yorker:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctPPnPygCd8

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  77. It seems like a lot of people became reacquainted with this song when they heard Harry Dean Stanton playing it on Kelly’s Heroes.

    nk (dbc370)


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