Donald Trump After WTC Collapsed on 9/11: Now I Have the Tallest Building in Downtown New York!
I had never heard this until today. Amazing that this clip was not available during the campaign.
Literally moments after the towers came down, Trump was asked if anything had happened with his own building at 40 Wall Street. His answer was to brag about now having the tallest building in downtown Manhattan. It’s so ghoulish and laughably inappropriate that you would think it was The Onion. But it’s real:
Thousands of people died on 9/11 and Trump’s initial reaction was happiness his building was the tallest again pic.twitter.com/jkLygUelF7
— jordan 🌹🌹 (@JordanUhl) September 11, 2017
INTERVIEWER: You have one of the landmark buildings down in the financial district, 40 Wall Street. Uh, did you have any damage, or did, you know, what’s happened down there?
TRUMP: Well, it was an amazing phone call. Well, I mean, 40 Wall Street was the second tallest building in downtown Manhattan, and it was, actually before the World Trade Center, was the tallest, and then when they built the World Trade Center, became known as the second tallest, and now it’s the tallest.
Let’s assume he followed that up with something about how horrible the collapse of the World Trade Center was, and how sad the loss of life was, and all that was edited out by the partisan who created this video. Assume all that to be true, Trump defenders. We don’t know it, but assume it anyway.
I don’t care. His first reaction was to gloat about how he now had the tallest building in downtown Manhattan.
Donald Trump is a pathological narcissist and a complete dick. This is the way he has always been. This is the way he will always be.
He may end up doing some policy things that are OK, and if so I will acknowledge that. But he is a terrible, awful, immoral human being with no positive traits whatsoever.
If you can’t handle the fact that I point that out, find another blog.
P.S. A hypercritical commenter says Mike Pence made a nice speech today at the site of the crash of Flight 93, and asks why I didn’t post about that. The answer is because I was working. However, my colleague streiff at RedState posted about it, so if you’re interested, read about it here.
As a suck-up to Donald Trump, Mike Pence has no character. He is still miles better than Donald Trump. We’d be far better off with Pence as president.
[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]
Ding.Patterico (115b1f) — 9/11/2017 @ 8:54 pm
Set your timer for trollishness.Simon Jester (fbd5ad) — 9/11/2017 @ 9:02 pm
Well, and I want Mitt Romney to be well into his second term, but I can’t have that, either.Kevin M (752a26) — 9/11/2017 @ 9:06 pm
And we didn’t get that largely due to an edited tape.Kevin M (752a26) — 9/11/2017 @ 9:09 pm
Kevin, I agree with you. But strap in for the usual bizarre nastiness….which bizarrely suggests that DJT is a better person. I have an explanation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RijB8wnJCN0Simon Jester (fbd5ad) — 9/11/2017 @ 9:13 pm
His first reaction was to gloat about how he now had the tallest building in downtown Manhattan
What do you mean his first reaction? This interview was along time after that
This is the true story about Donald Trump and 9/11:
From page 443, of the TIME 2006 Almanac:
Because of 9/11, Donald Trump lost the opportunity to build the tallest building in the world.
The terrorists won, and Donald Trump lost.
The tallest buildings in the world are now in the Far East, or in the Arab world.
Now Trump won’t tell this story on himself, because, well, for one thing, a lot of people think he was in New York that day, maybe seeing people jump off of buildings with his own eyes, and not through television, or peering with a telescope into New Jersey.
But in fact, Trump was in Chicago on September 11, 2001.
P.S. The Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago was eventually completed in 2009 at 1,389 feet, although not without Trump being sued for not paying a debt (his lawyer said the suit was foolish – he was going to pay it soon, and in fact he did)
The Trump International Hotel and Tower is now about number 16 on one list of the world’s tallest buildings.
When Trump talked about having the tallest building in Lower Manhattan, he was concealing his disappointment.Sammy Finkelman (8a673f) — 9/11/2017 @ 9:21 pm
I had never heard this until today. Amazing that this clip was not available during the campaign.
Apparently it was, Patterico:
On 9/11, Trump noted on TV that his Financial District building was now the ‘tallest’ By Jenna Johnson September 11, 2016
Story had link to Politico story on both candidates whereabouts on 9/11 w/t recording:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/trump-hillary-clinton-september-11-911-attacks-nyc-214236DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/11/2017 @ 9:24 pm
there’s no such thing as Mike Pencehappyfeet (28a91b) — 9/11/2017 @ 9:37 pm
It’s real convenient that he happened to be in Chicago on 9/11, isn’t it? And it’s sure a coincidence that the attack on the Twin Towers left his building as the tallest in New York City. Just like it’s a coincidence that Jamie Gorelick who was responsible for the intelligence exchange wall that led to 9/11, and was on the commission that covered it up afterwards, is now on his daughter’s payroll.nk (dbc370) — 9/11/2017 @ 9:47 pm
Hate to say it, but gotta throw a flag on this play, Patterico.
Really have to go listen to the full interview w/WWOR– it runs about 10 minutes and linked in this Politico piece from a year ago:
Context is lost in the small clip you’ve got here– given the flow of his conversation w/t WWOR news people who were feeding him weak questions anyway. Actually, more stunning was his comment about being miffed they closed the stock exchange – even as debris was tumbling down on New Yorkers scurrying for cover.DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/11/2017 @ 9:48 pm
you realize THIS is your post about 9/11.
Think about that.
I know exactly where I was when the towers were hit and when they fell. I could see the smoke from my house. I will never forget and never forgive. We have bigger enemies who are still trying to destroy us.NJRob (7f4bec) — 9/11/2017 @ 9:49 pm
The Washington Post said Trump called a television station on 9/11. That is possible. He could have done that from Chicago. Nobody could have called him, even if they wanted to, because nobody would have known where he was,
So we can say that Trump’s first reaction, was to get on TV.
Now did Trump actually claim, though, that he was IN New York? The Washington Post article says that Trump said that the scene around the World Trade Center as described to him by his associates at 40 Wall Street.Sammy Finkelman (8a673f) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:04 pm
You realize that was Trump’s comment about the buildings collapsing. Think about THAT.
How dare you try to shame ME when you can’t muster a word of condemnation for this callous narcissist.
I’ll take you seriously when you are willing to criticize Donald Trump 1/10 as much as you criticize me for things that are 1/10 as bad as what he does.
Until that happens, I will ignore you. You are not worth my time.Patterico (531244) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:06 pm
@ NJRob, who wrote (#11):
That is a fair statement about 9/11/2017. As our host took pains to note, he has posted about other things on many other anniversaries of 9/11/01. I don’t think it belittles the memory of 9/11/01 to discuss the events of that day in a 2017 context.
Throughout his life, Trump has turned his life into an endless narcissistic loop. I agree with our host about that.
Is he also a ghoul? A racist? A sexist? All of those characterizations require knowledge of what’s in his head that none of us have. I am content to observe his objective outward manifestations of what’s inside his head. Some of those objective outward manifestations, including this clip, are consistent with some of those things, especially situationally, and especially depending on what he thinks he’s supposed to say to that particular group of marks he’s in front of at any given moment. But the one thing that everything he does, good and bad, is utterly consistent with is his narcissism. He’s all about Trump, and as he’ll tell you speaking of himself in the third person, Trump is all about the Trump brand.
I am sufficiently confident in this that I’m no longer much interested in what other explanations there may be for his bizarre behavior. They may also be true, or not. But this — this narcissism, which isn’t hidden within his skull but dripping from his every word and deed — this is bad enough. It explains how he treats people; it explains what he says; it explains how he could cut off his own disabled nephew’s critical health care needs over a perceived family slight. WHen he says to you, “Make America Great Again,” he means “Make Trump Great.”
This is not new news at all, though. This is just the first 9/11 anniversary in which this guy has been in the office of the POTUS. Gosh I wish he weren’t but he is. Gosh I hope he does better tomorrow, but I’m sore tired of saying that.Beldar (fa637a) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:09 pm
And yes of course America has bigger enemies. Please. That’s Obama-style strawmanning.Beldar (fa637a) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:11 pm
At least we can say gloating is poor form.AZ Bob (f7a491) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:15 pm
We also read this in the Washington Post article:
I can understand why Trump didn’t want to comment because everybody was saying he was in New York City on Sept. 11, 2001, as a defense to why he might have said that he saw Muslims cheering the attack – but why did Politico hide the all-important fact that Trump was not in New York City on September 11, 2001? Or was it Politico that did that?
The full interview would probably have Trump revealing he was in Chicago.
In the sixth Republican presidential debate in Las Vegas on Thursday, January 14, 2016, Donald Trump said something that, if not read very carefully, could imply that he had been in New York City on September 11, 2001:
Now he saw the buildings come down on TV in Chicago.
And he was down there other time(s), not on Sept. 11, 2001.
The Washington Post now claims Trump said certain things that he probably didn’t:
Did Trump in fact claim he was in his apartment? I don’t think so. He saw all those things on TV in Chicago.
If Trump at some point had indicated he was in Chicago, he couldn’t be accused of claiming to have wotnessed people jump to their deaths from his apartment, so maybe that;’s why Politico supressed the fact he was in Chicago.
The claim he helped a bit is not much of a claim, and that went on for about six months. He had to be down there in the vicinity because of his building at 40 Wall Street.
The witnessing Muslims in New Jersey is a lie, because that what was on TV wasn’t in New Jersey, but I am not sure how clear Trump was about claiming to have seen that precise thing. But it did happen in the Gaza Strip I think and another place where thefilm was confiscated. His campaign went searching for video clips. He did maintain the claim, if he had ever eant it, that he seen that himself, live.Sammy Finkelman (8a673f) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:17 pm
Leon Wolf had a post about this last year at RedState. I did not see it until today, after I had seen the clip on Twitter.
I don’t care where he was. That is a giant distraction.
Note how the Trumpers can’t even bring themselves to criticize even this.
Not a cult!Patterico (c3ae4b) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:23 pm
a word of condemnation for this callous narcissist.
That he most certainly is.
However the clip is a little out of context given the flow of the full conversation: it’s 20 seconds of a nearly 10 minute on-air interview. His irritation at the closing of the stock exchange is certainly most revealing as well.DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:23 pm
14. . Beldar (fa637a) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:09 pm
What Trump did on 9/11, I think it’s fair to say, is make sure he got on TV. (once he had overcome the initial shock)
On a New York station, which is where he was known best, or maybe that’s where someone was most likely to put him on the air.
Even if to do that he had to call in long distance from Chicago, without video and without any really first hand information to relate.
He was readyy to give an uninformed opinion as to whythe towers might have collapsed. in reality, it was the fact that steel gets weaker when heated and the fact the WTC towers has been constructed with the minimum amout of steel.Sammy Finkelman (8a673f) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:24 pm
I don’t care where he was. That is a giant distraction.
That’s not the point. Besides, he was in Manhattan anyway. The point was the full 10 minute interview w/WWOR is in that Politico piece published a year ago and that really should be listened to for context– not a mere 20 seconds of it.DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:28 pm
Or maybe Chicago– or looking for Muslims in ersery City… wherever he was bragging about his big windows facing south toward WTC….DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:31 pm
@17. Did Trump in fact claim he was in his apartment? I don’t think so.
Sammy, go listen to the 10 minute interview of the WWOR– he left the impression he was watching it from NY. But they were asking awfully lame questions in it anyway. His explanation for narrow windows was particularly odd.DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:35 pm
Mike Pence oh my goodness
given all the infinite and myriad happenstances what must converge for the universe to manufacture such a fantastical creature!
oh do pull the other onehappyfeet (28a91b) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:36 pm
Trying to find a transcript, only found this part:
Alan Marcus: Donald you’re probably the best-known builder particularly of great buildings in the city. There’s a great deal of question about whether or not the damage and and the ultimate destruction of the buildings was caused by the airplanes by architectural defect or possibly by bombs or more after shocks you have any thoughts on that?
Donald Trump: It wasn’t architectural defect. The World Trade Center was always known as a very very strong building. Don’t forget that took a big bomb in the basement (1993). Now, the basement is the most vulnerable place because that’s your foundation and it withstood that and I got to see that area about three or four days after took place because one of my structural engineers actually took me for a tour because he did the building and I said “I can’t believe it”. The the building was standing solid and half of the columns were blown out. This was an unbelievably powerful building. If you don’t know anything about structure it was one of the first buildings that was built from the outside. The steel, the reason the World Trade Center had such narrow windows is that in between all the windows, you had the steel on the outside, the steel on the outside of the building.
That’s why when I first looked – and you had these big heavy i-beams. When I first looked at it, I couldn’t believe it, because there was a hole in the steel and this is steel that was, you remember the width of the windows of the World Trade Center folks. I think you know if you were ever up there, they were quite narrow and in between was this heavy steel. I said how could a plane, even a plane, even a 767 or 747 or whatever it might have been, how could it possibly go through this steel? I happen to think that they had not only a plane but they had bombs that exploded almost simultaneously, because I just can’t imagine anything being able to go through that wall. Most buildings are built with the steel on the inside around the elevator shaft. This one was built from the outside which is the strongest structure you can have and it was almost just like a can of soup.
Rolland Smith: You know, Donald we were looking at pictures all morning long of that plane coming into building number two and when you see that approach the far side and all of a sudden within a matter of milliseconds the explosion pops out the other side.
Donald Trump: Right. I just think that there was a plane with more than just fuel. I think obviously they were very big planes. They were going very rapidly, because I was also watching where the plane seemed to be not only going fast it seems to be coming down into the building. So is getting the speed from going down hill so to speak. It just seemed to me that to do that kind of destruction is even more than a big plane because you’re talking about talking about steel, the heaviest caliber steel that was used on the building. These buildings were rock-solid and you know it’s just an amazing amazing thing. This country is different today and it’s going to be different than it ever was for many years to come.
Rolland Smith: A very profound statement and very true.Frederick (80401a) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:38 pm
@25. Freddo, the entire WWOR 10 minute interview is linked in the politico piece:
Just go watch it.DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:44 pm
many facts to gather must gather them all
rush to judgment we shall not
a thorough weighing of facts and evidence
that’s what’s required and that’s what we shall do
nothing for it then
i’m eager to see your results come the morrow my industrious friends
justice and truth!
truth and justice!
until thenhappyfeet (28a91b) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:50 pm
I listened to the whole thing. He spends the time talking about how awful the attacks were and how many died. He sounds like he’s trying to process it as he’s talking, which many of us were at the time.
Disappointed there’s no full transcript.Frederick (80401a) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:50 pm
Blast from the past. Used to be the local anchor at WCBS-NY. WWOR had him working across the river in Secaucus.DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:54 pm
Yeah for a while there were 9/11 conspiracy theorists using that interview as evidence that bombs were involved in the attacks. And until the run-up to the 2016 election, no one else had any interest in that interview, until Politico decided to try to find out what Donald Trump had said on or about that date to take 20 seconds of it out of context.Frederick (80401a) — 9/11/2017 @ 10:57 pm
The first part (h/t Andrew, TJTB):
First Reporter: Donald, I understand, you were actually a witness to what happened this morning.
Donald Trump: Well, I have a window that looks directly at the world Trade Center and I saw this huge explosion, I was with a group of people and I, I really couldn’t believe it, and even, I think worse than that, for years I’ve looked right directly at the building. I’d see the Empire State Building in the foreground, and the World Trade Center in the background, and now I’m looking at absolutely nothing. It’s just gone. And it’s, just hard to believe.
Allen Marcus: Donald, Allen Marcus here. Uh, your building is uh, Trump Tower, is the – one of the great tourist attractions in the world, it’s well-known universally, are you taking any, uh, precautions there in light of what happened at the World Trade Center?
Donald Trump: Well, Allen, we’ve always had, as you know, very very strong security, but there’s very little you can do about planes crashing into a building. You look at Larry Silverstein, is a terrific owner in New York and a very good friend of mine who I just called, I was very worried about him, because I assumed he was maybe in the building. He took possession of the building one week ago. As you know, he just bought the World Trade Center.
Allen Marcus: Right
Donald Trump: And, he was in his office, and he was getting ready to move into the World Trade Center over the next two weeks, so, when I just spoke to him, there’s nothing you can do when people are going to be bombing planes at your building. Now, I guess maybe the world is gonna be changing and maybe you/re gonna have F-16’s flying all over the city and such, but, it’s a pretty tough situation.
Allen Marcus: Donald, uh, you have one of the landmark buildings down in the financial district, 40 Wall Street. Uhh, did you have any damage, or did, you know, what’s – what’s happened down there?
Donald Trump: Well, it was an amazing phone call, I mean, 40 Wall street actually was the second-tallest building in downtown Manhattan, and it was actually before the World Trade Center the tallest, and then when they built the World Trade Center it became known as the second-tallest, and now it’s the tallest. And I just spoke to my people, and they said it’s the most unbelievable sight, it’s probably seven or eight blocks away from the World Trade Center, and yet Wall Street is littered with two feet of stone and brick and mortar and steel, and there were thousands of people walking over, the – the debris, over the Brooklyn Bridge, where they’re sending them out over the Brooklyn Bridge, to Brooklyn, and then I guess, and they’re gonna have to figure out how to get home from there.
But they have between a foot and 2 feet of debris, right in front of a building, that’s probably, you would say Allen, around six or seven blocks away.Frederick (80401a) — 9/11/2017 @ 11:03 pm
Ted Cruz is trending on Twitter, but not for any of the reasons you might expect.Davethulhu (3a2442) — 9/11/2017 @ 11:10 pm
Even Snopes was pretty soft on Trump when it came to this interview.
“On 11 September 2001, as news outlets in New York, the United States, and around the world struggled to keep up with unfolding reports of that day’s terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center, newscasters from local television station WWOR spoke live on the air with Donald Trump about the event by telephone.
Trump described how he had witnessed the attack from an office window that looked directly onto the World Trade Center and answered questions from the newscasters about subjects such as whether he was taking any precautions to protect his own buildings and what the city would need to do to recover from the attacks…
it is true that during the course of that interview, in response to a query about whether his own buildings had sustained any damage, Trump stated, in reference to the Trump Building, that “now it’s the tallest” [in downtown Manhattan]. Whether that remark constituted “bragging” is a matter of subjective interpretation, however.
Critics maintain that Trump’s referencing the relative height of 40 Wall Street in the immediate aftermath of the World Trade Center towers’ fall was completely gratuitous and irrelevant to the discussion, the hallmark of an egoist with no compunctions about using tragedy as an opportunity for self-promotion.
But in the context of the full interview, Trump’s remarks could perhaps be considered defensible.
First of all, the newscasters to whom Trump was speaking were appealing to their audience by repeatedly referring to his status in the New York real estate community, describing him as the “man behind lots of real estate in Manhattan” and a “visionary in New York real estate,” and they specifically asked him about the Trump Tower and the Trump Building, which they termed “one of the great tourist attractions in the world” and “one of the landmark buildings down in the financial district,” respectively. It was to be expected that he would respond to those lead-ins with at least a little bit of subtle swagger (which he expressed matter-of-factly rather than hyperbolically).
Second, Trump’s remark was made in response to questions about whether his buildings had sustained any damage and whether he was taking any precautions to protect them. It the chaos of that day, it wasn’t too much of a stretch to think that Trump was pondering whether the (as-yet unknown) terrorists, having destroyed the two tallest buildings in lower Manhattan, might be coming after the next-tallest.
But then again, the office building at 70 Pine Street is listed as being 25 feet taller than 40 Wall Street (although it has four fewer floors), so perhaps Trump could be considered to have been “bragging” for claiming an honor that wasn’t actually his.”Frederick (80401a) — 9/11/2017 @ 11:11 pm
The stock exchange part is in the context of a desire to go on as if nothing had happened, but that you realize that you simply can’t go on as if nothing had happened, things really are different after this.Frederick (80401a) — 9/11/2017 @ 11:15 pm
@11. NJRob, you know, it’s hard, I think, for folks who never had the opportunity to visit them, to fully appreciate the size and scale of the WTC complex and what was lost that day. Television tried, but it had its limits. Used to spend a few days a week passing through the WTC; aside from the offices above, most don’t know of the escalators, the massive shopping malls, banks, kiosks, stores and train hubs beneath it lost– or the connections to JFK, to subways up town- PATH to Hoboken and Jersey City and Newark. All forever busy and bustling and now forever gone. The footprints of those buildings were simply mind-boggling. And for all their soaring grandeur, the Twin Towers remained the only NY buildings I was every wary of being in and taking visitors to– particularly the elevators. You could feel the cars move and sense the building sway in the wind, even on calm days. So many and so much was lost that day. But we’ll remember.DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/11/2017 @ 11:24 pm
@33. Bingo. Good summary of the 10 minute interview.DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/11/2017 @ 11:26 pm
@28. Bingo, too. My take, too- processing it all– not excusing his routine bragging– but you could hear the hint of bewilderment in his voice — which pretty much everyone on air had that day.DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/11/2017 @ 11:33 pm
An anti-Trump story in the WaPo during the election was pretty much lost among the other anti_trump stories. They published little else.Kevin M (752a26) — 9/12/2017 @ 12:40 am
Note how the Trumpers can’t even bring themselves to criticize even this.
An edited tape on a day when EVERYONE was distracted, shocked and staring out windows. Yeah, I’ll get right on it.
And I despise Trump. But doesn’t mean I will soil my hands on any sh1t available to throw. Trump is stupid, bloody-minded, impervious to reason, ignorant and a boor. That the GOP could not find a way to get a better candidate is forever a mistake. Rince Priebus is easily the worst GOP party boss of all time. Anyone else would have beat Ms Peestink by 20 points.
But still, this tape is hate for hate’s sake. Real two-minute hate stuff. There is so much better stuff to be angry about, such as the colossal health-care cockup.Kevin M (752a26) — 9/12/2017 @ 12:48 am
The real issue with Trump is that his picture should grace dictionaries forever, illustrating the phrase “opportunity cost.”
I see that Mitt Romney is going to run for the Senate in 2018. And win by 60 points, in Utah.
I wonder what he’d do if Trump is still on the ropes in 2020.Kevin M (752a26) — 9/12/2017 @ 12:56 am
never forget it was the bush neo-con artists who said in 1998 in progress for a new american century that we would need a “second pearl harbor” before we can attack iraq. not trump who opposed neo-con adventurism.still trumpin (62fb8e) — 9/12/2017 @ 3:09 am
Still stupid perry
https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/over-a-year-before-911-trump-wrote-of-terror-threat-with-rem?utm_term=.tuvn2k3qB#.livMzNpOanarciso (335be2) — 9/12/2017 @ 4:57 am
Of course you can assume it was dave shifclettts insight
http://narcisoscorner.blogspot.com/?m=1narciso (335be2) — 9/12/2017 @ 5:18 am
That post references then prince salman’s now king serendipity to those events.narciso (335be2) — 9/12/2017 @ 5:24 am
nk (dbc370) — 9/11/2017 @ 9:47 pm
Lol, nk, you nut. I’m not saying yer right;I’m not saying yer wrong.felipe (b5e0f4) — 9/12/2017 @ 6:24 am
It’s piling on like this that makes Trump more sympathetic. Dang! Someone upthread even said “Gosh!” and I can’t stand obscenity.Ben burn (e69b56) — 9/12/2017 @ 7:14 am
How long before he can be called a terrorist?
https://www.emptywheel.net/2017/09/11/senate-intelligence-committee-tried-to-say-wikileaks-was-not-just-resembled-a-spy/Ben burn (e69b56) — 9/12/2017 @ 7:24 am
I don’t think you will.
I said in the post it was obviously edited. I don’t care. I have now read the context. I don’t care. It doesn’t change anything.
Beldar’s comment in this thread is the only proper reaction, and he is the only person who had it.Patterico (115b1f) — 9/12/2017 @ 7:30 am
Accessories before the fact:
https://mobile.twitter.com/RCInvestigates/status/907280123778486273narciso (335be2) — 9/12/2017 @ 7:33 am
You can always play that game. “Why don’t you talk about the real problems?!?!” I do. I have.
I was shocked to learn this yesterday; shocked that I have never heard it before; and pre-shocked to know in advance that almost nobody among my virtual alleged friends would react to this the way I did.Patterico (115b1f) — 9/12/2017 @ 7:33 am
This is as good example of the cultural differences that separate us. People who aren’t offended by this have a different mindset than people who find this offensive. Nothing is ever going to change that.DRJ (15874d) — 9/12/2017 @ 7:37 am
I placed this comment in the wrong thread earlier:
#276felipe (b5e0f4) — 9/12/2017 @ 7:42 am
CULTure is the thing DRJ.
See North Korean culture for similar aberrant behaviors.Ben burn (e69b56) — 9/12/2017 @ 7:43 am
Same actors responded to this with cultish passion…
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123885Ben burn (e69b56) — 9/12/2017 @ 7:45 am
It’s true. It’s just highly distressing how large the former group is, and how small the latter.
On the positive side, it makes me appreciate the members of the latter group even more.Patterico (115b1f) — 9/12/2017 @ 7:46 am
Patterico, I think you and Beldar are right about DJT’s narcissism. It’s at once better and worse than I had perceived. Better because narcissists can do decent and good things. Bad in that narcissism is a hole in the narcissist’s soul that can never, ever be filled.
I’ve said a lot of dumb things in my life. And I apologized or paid for those things (often both).
The real signifier of a narcissist is if they ever say that they were wrong about something. Perhaps Trump has. I hope so.Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/12/2017 @ 7:46 am
DRJ, it’s really about Teh Narrative, in my opinion. Folks on the Left and the Right are all about Teh Narrative these days, and anything that goes counter to it is denied or eliminated.Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/12/2017 @ 7:47 am
He pretended to be remorseful about the grabbing pussies comment. But he was not.Patterico (115b1f) — 9/12/2017 @ 7:48 am
We know you meant “never,” Simon.felipe (b5e0f4) — 9/12/2017 @ 7:49 am
Did Patterico just call y’all scumbags?Ben burn (e69b56) — 9/12/2017 @ 7:53 am
You and I often agree but I’m not sure I can agree here. There is a cultural difference between people from places like Texas and New York. We have some things in common but many differences, too. It reminds me of George W Bush, who liked to say the nations of the world were united by certain values, including that all parents love their children. But that isn’t true. Palestinians don’t love their children as a culture when they proudly sacrifice them as martyrs. Middle Eastern cultures don’t value their daughters when they engage in honor killings.
This is certainly not as bad as those examples but IMO it is a cultural difference, not a political one.DRJ (15874d) — 9/12/2017 @ 7:59 am
Texans and New Yorkers are both braggarts but there are things we Texans won’t brag about, and this is an example. There are probably things New Yorkers won’t do that Texans will, things that irritate people just as much. DCSCA probably has some examples.DRJ (15874d) — 9/12/2017 @ 8:03 am
I agree. I think a big part of the divide is what we admire. Those who admire wealth or fame or both, I suspect, are confused about why this would be a big deal.Patterico (6467ac) — 9/12/2017 @ 8:03 am
I would think that discos rubbishing of the lone star would irk, but that’s something else I’m likely wrong.narciso (335be2) — 9/12/2017 @ 8:07 am
DRJ, I am not from Texas, nor the east coast. My mother was born and raised in Oklahoma, and my father near Sacramento. My father worked with oil field workers before he became a firefighter.
My attitudes about honesty and honor and courtesy have not made me happier or more successful, but I can look at myself in the mirror for being true to what I believe.
I don’t know if that is Texan.
I don’t know much about different cultures here in America, other than I was born and raised lower working class.Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/12/2017 @ 8:09 am
DRJ, here is an example. My wife was once offered an award by a committee full of terrible people. She thought it was fine to take the award (and she thumbed her nose at them, taking it).
But I would have never accepted it. Praise from bad people is worth less than nothing. Period.
At least for me.Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/12/2017 @ 8:11 am
I know that there are some Palestinian parents that believe that the best thing their children have to offer their faith is to become a martyr, and love them for it. Even the word “love,” as an action, not an idea, understood differently by different cultures. So I would argue that yes, they do love their children as a culture insofar as this is true of their culture.
I also know that there are Palestinian parents that love their children as we love our children. They fear for their own lives and the lives of their children. One could say that these people do not share the same culture, just as pro-lifers do not share the pro-choice culture. So far, pro-lifers are not as hated, hunted, and harmed.felipe (b5e0f4) — 9/12/2017 @ 8:12 am
Christians could also sacrifice our children for our faith (remember Him Jones?) but we don’t because it is a rationalization, not love.DRJ (15874d) — 9/12/2017 @ 8:17 am
Jim JonesDRJ (15874d) — 9/12/2017 @ 8:18 am
Simon, your feeling about awards may come from your Oklahoma-Midwest cultural roots. It fits.DRJ (15874d) — 9/12/2017 @ 8:20 am
Blocks of white really make people look ignorant. But they’ve been unaware anyway.Ben burn (e69b56) — 9/12/2017 @ 8:23 am
It may just be mental blocks to the idea Trump is a Cult without respect to the cultural nuance. What a load that is.Ben burn (e69b56) — 9/12/2017 @ 8:28 am
Patterico, I agree with you that Trump is a narcissistic blowhard and general sociopath. And Beldar is very correct.
However, I don’t think that this particular utterance is that significant. I said a lot of odd inappropriate things the day of 9/11. It was a shocking event and people say odd inappropriate things at those times. Even narcissistic sociopaths.SPQR (240837) — 9/12/2017 @ 8:39 am
This is what happens when we’re faced with two terrible candidates and we have to pick the least worst of the two.ROCHF (877dba) — 9/12/2017 @ 8:52 am
SPQR, it only matters if Trump said something inappropriate that day. I remember saying some pretty crappy things too. Like “I’d Kill’em all” and stuff like that. I didn’t mean it of course. I’d settle for 90%. I think that would cull their propensity for making murder and war for the next 1500 years like they did for the last 1500 years.Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7) — 9/12/2017 @ 8:55 am
Mr. Trump didn’t say anything inappropriate if you go back to the original interview and hear all the context
duh that’s why number one his remarks were considered just fine when he made them
and number two that’s why they had to do a special edit on the video to make him look badhappyfeet (28a91b) — 9/12/2017 @ 9:04 am
Yes to all of the above. Growing up in NYC I went to the Towers plenty of times. Went to the top floor. Those express elevators were brutal on my ears. Looking down at people and seeing them as ants. How many buildings were part of the center. It was a great place to have lunch, surrounded as you were by those buildings.
I will never forgive those that took that away from us.
I had to console a young lady in college who lost her dad. As part of the Student Government in college (treasurer) I was responsible for helping to organize the memorial just a few days later.
Those who use 9/11 to take potshots for political benefit disgust me. It was a reminder of who our enemy is and they will not and have not stopped trying to kill us.
That is what 9/11 means to me.
P.S. Patterico, if Trump was bragging about his building now being the tallest, F him.
Prove it.NJRob (7f4bec) — 9/12/2017 @ 9:13 am
This is all very depressing.
I am sympathetic to Patrick inasmuch as it is demoralising to see Trump and these other unappealing politicians where they are, doing what they do. The sheer exposure of television and their speaking on every other conceivable topic does not help.
On the other hand I am not sure where dehumanising these people gets us, even the current joker in the White House.JP (f1742c) — 9/12/2017 @ 9:39 am
I think they didn’t show this during the election because there are only a few imbeciles who would think he was bragging rather than explaining the scale of the tragedy. Even CNN and Michael Moore refuse to go into Patterico territory.jcurtis (1c27ff) — 9/12/2017 @ 9:48 am
President Trump and the Pope were walking along the Potomac and a gust of wind blew the Pontiff’s hat into the river.
Trump walked across the water, retrieved the hat and walked back across the water, giving it back to the Pope.
The next day Patterico ran a post: “Trump can’t swim!”AZ Bob (f7a491) — 9/12/2017 @ 9:54 am
The 20 second snippet is a Rorschacht Test in audio form. It reveals what you want it to reveal. If validates a belief in Trump’s “immoral” or “narcissism” that is already ingrained in your view of him.shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 9/12/2017 @ 9:55 am
snippets are no good
i abjure the snippetshappyfeet (28a91b) — 9/12/2017 @ 10:07 am
Exactly shopwrecked and since the grandmarshal of the supreme court won’t be installing off on hatch (what hallucinogen is mensch on?) This is who we have. I’ve stated before that getting rid of general Flynn, allowing bannon and Dr. Gorka to be forced out, is,a greater measure of his,performance)narciso (335be2) — 9/12/2017 @ 11:03 am
33. Frederick (80401a) — 9/11/2017 @ 11:11 pm
I think Snopes is wrong.
Has anyone actually heard the tape of that interview?
Trump was in Chicago on Sept 11, 2001, according to a reliable source (the TIME Almanac for 2006 quoting a Chicago architect) and Trump would not have told such a bold lie on the spur of the moent. And if he had, we’d have all heard about it.
Also, wasn’t it Fox? (However Fox owns (or owned) both Channels 5 and 9 which was WWOR) and sometimes, during breaking news, the same thing was broadcast oo both statoions, and when tgaht happened they were both carrying national cable Fox News.)
I seriously doubt that Trump claimed he was in office that looked directly into the world Trade Center (although possibly he may have bene misunderstood, or the reporter who intriduced him misunderstood the situation.
No, Snopes has to be wrong. Can someone fact check Snopes?Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 9/12/2017 @ 11:06 am
Dr. Gorka will see you in few moment please remove all you clothshappyfeet (28a91b) — 9/12/2017 @ 11:14 am
@Sammy:Has anyone actually heard the tape of that interview?
Yeah, I have, DCSCA has, Snopes has, follow his link. Plenty of other commenters here listened to the whole thing. I cited large transcripted chunks of it. It’s on YouTube in multiple locations.
There’s not much point in linking all that again, so can you make the time to review what other commenters have put up already? I mean it’s not like any of it disappeared.Frederick (64d4e1) — 9/12/2017 @ 11:18 am
@81./@83. No, it’s a 20 second clip that’s lifted somewhat out of context from a flowing 10 minute interview. Just go and listen to the full 10 minutes of the WWOR tape.
Regardless of how you feel about Trump– support or reject– it’s more or less an unnecessary reach for a ‘cheap shot’ as he drops and tweets plenty of legitimate verbal cow pies almost hourly that don’t require any editing at all.
End of story.DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/12/2017 @ 11:22 am
@84. Has anyone actually heard the tape of that interview?
Yes, Sammy, it’s linked in the Politico piece posted in some of the comments. The 20 second clip is lifted from a 10 minute televised phone interview on WWOR. Just go look at it. Watched it three times. The impression is he is in NY and watched it all from his office window uptown; Frederick and I more or less reach similar conclusions about his demeanor. He spits out misinformation to be sure but the whole piece sounds like a person processing with some bewilderment what he saw and responding to some fairly weak and mundane questions from equally stunned news people which is pretty much what every one was doing that day.DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/12/2017 @ 11:29 am
King Farquaad is compelled to build tall buildings to compensate for his other shortcomings.Tillman (a95660) — 9/12/2017 @ 11:31 am
@Sammy, DCSCA:Frederick and I more or less reach similar conclusions about his demeanor.
Yeah, you know how Trump is normally at 11, in this phone call he’s like a 3.
I know you really have a lot invested in him being in Chicago that morning–“geometric logic” as DCSCA might say–but consider that a “meeting” need not be in person, and that accounts of meetings after the fact are not always accurate, and maybe he was really in Chicago and said he was in New York, because sometimes people lie even when they can be sure to be caught (see also Trump, Donald J., Clinton, William J., and Clinton, Hillary R.).
I can’t say I know for a fact where he was and what he saw.Frederick (64d4e1) — 9/12/2017 @ 11:33 am
@90. Yeah– ’11-3.’ Noticed that, too–he was younger, as well. Adds to the ‘bewilderment’ thing.DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/12/2017 @ 12:04 pm
With all due respect…why?
If the guy who SWATted you gave a homeless, starving bum a quarter, or picked up a piece of litter and put it in a waste bin, would you “acknowledge” his good deed or praise him?
You admit yourself that no possible act by anyone could redeem Donald Trump’s character.
Anything good he might ever do will not be done for benevolent reasons, but because he thinks it will benefit him, or harm somebody he hates.Dave (445e97) — 9/12/2017 @ 1:24 pm
I think Patterico solved 9/11. Trump the Architect, with the help of Russia, would have been able to get the explosives into the WTC through the secret tunnels for which Trump owned one of the few master keys. No one knows more about how to make skyscrapers stand, and therefore…fall. Motive is obvious: have tallest building left standing.jcurtis (1c27ff) — 9/12/2017 @ 1:36 pm
Your attacks on president trump will backfire on the republican party! reagan democrats in the rust belt voted for trumps populism not jebbi’s establishment republican party or turd crud’s libertarian conservative dog vommit. populists who voted for trump will vote a populist like bernie sanders before they vote you and your ilk! you can kiss the rust belt states good bye if you mess with president trump!still trumpin (a260f2) — 9/12/2017 @ 1:52 pm
@62. DRJ, this may sum things up nicely 😉
http://crooksandliars.com/heather/lewis-black-responds-rick-perrys-pro-texasDCSCA (797bc0) — 9/12/2017 @ 1:58 pm
I said in the post it was obviously edited. I don’t care. I have now read the context. I don’t care. It doesn’t change anything.
Except it does.
Watch and listen instead.
Beldar’s comment in this thread is the only proper reaction, and he is the only person who had it.
‘This is Radio Moscow. There is plenty of cheese in East Berlin.’DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/12/2017 @ 2:22 pm
JFK cheated on Jackie.
LBJ lied about Vietnam.
Nixon was a crook.
Carter lusted in his heart.
Reagan called his second wife ‘Mommie.’
Clinton diddled an intern w/a cigar.
Obama said you could keep your doctor.
Trump is a narcicist who’d date his daughter.
“I was shocked to learn this yesterday; shocked that I have never heard it before; and pre-shocked to know in advance that almost nobody among my virtual alleged friends would react to this the way I did.”
“I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!” – Captain Renault [Claude Rains] ‘Casablanca’ 1942DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/12/2017 @ 2:48 pm
As Beldar said, this is who Donald Trump is:DRJ (d35869) — 9/12/2017 @ 6:21 pm
This is not new news at all, though. This is just the first 9/11 anniversary in which this guy has been in the office of the POTUS. Gosh I wish he weren’t but he is. Gosh I hope he does better tomorrow, but I’m sore tired of saying that.
This. And if he were to drop dead of apoplexy tomorrow, I’d be the first to buy everyone a round. But until some happier day, I am not going to carry the Democrats’ water as anything Trump comes up with, self-serving or at random, is better than their best well-thought plan.Kevin M (752a26) — 9/12/2017 @ 6:42 pm
shocked that I have never heard it before; and pre-shocked to know in advance that almost nobody among my virtual alleged friends would react to this the way I did.
There is much information in this statement. Much information that the pre-established mindset refuses to let the critical thinking module have access to.
Precisely.CFarleigh (5b282a) — 9/13/2017 @ 5:42 am
I recall seeing the plane crash into the WTC on television then having to go to work. It seemed somewhat surreal. I made a joke about it at the time. What happened didn’t really sink in until that evening.dlm (a4eb00) — 9/13/2017 @ 5:38 pm
Trump was in Chicago on Sept. 11, 2001:
From page 443, of the TIME 2006 Almanac:
Bottom of page:
http://i66.tinypic.com/2mc83r8.jpgSammy Finkelman (02a146) — 9/20/2017 @ 10:52 am
7. DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/11/2017 @ 9:24 pm
This Politico story doesn’t place Donald trump in New York on Sept 11, 2001.
1. A New York Times reporter, Randal C. Archibold called his office left a message with a secretary. Trump called back quickly Trump said he had heard what happpened at 40 Wall Street, which actually meant that’s one place where he was not.
2. Two days later Trump is spotted (by Newsday) walking near Ground Zero, , dressed in a black suit, white shirt and red tie and talking into his cell phone,and he is overheard saying: “No, no. The building’s gone.” Then he did an interview with a German news station four blocks from the site. On September 13.
Trump was also saying one thing about the building he was planning in Chicago, his representatives were saying another – taht it should no longer be the world’s tallest building. That’s probably correct. It wasn’t really Trump who wanted to give up on that idea.
Interesting, a Chicago Tribune artivcle from 2011, ten years later, mentions Adrian Smith, who was the TIME Almanac source, but Smith says nothing about Trump being there with him.
Who were they about to show the designs to?? Further deponent sayeth not.
It seems like maybe by 2011, Trump was trying to keep the fact he was in Chicago on September 11, 2001 a secret.Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 9/20/2017 @ 11:39 am
@Sammy: Trump was trying to keep the fact he was in Chicago on September 11, 2001 a secret.
Or that he was not in Chicago on that date….Frederick (64d4e1) — 9/20/2017 @ 12:09 pm
Trump does not directly say he saw it – he doesn’t say yes, but he says has a window and for years looked at the WTC.
I think he does go over the line and imply he was in New York, apparently in Trump Tower.
Trump later mentions he had somebody who was down there who witnessed people jumping out of the building.
This interview appears to have taken places hours later, sometime in the afternoon. Trump speculates the plane had something aboard. Trump didn’t know that the heat weakened the steel.Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 9/20/2017 @ 12:10 pm
@Sammy:This interview appears to have taken places hours later, sometime in the afternoon.
Then the FAA should have flight logs for his jet, right?Frederick (64d4e1) — 9/20/2017 @ 12:13 pm
If he lied to WWOR and others he’d not want people to know what he said wasn’t true.
He gets asked at 4:20 what he would be doing if he was elected president in 2000? he says he’d be taking avery tough line – biy would you have to take atough line. He says it was probably worse tahn Pearl Harbor – he had heard 25,000 or 30,000 people (but it’s probably more because if falling derbris. He thought thered be more people killed that way.Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 9/20/2017 @ 12:13 pm
If Trump left Chicago, he would have had to travel by land. All planes were grouinded except government planes.Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 9/20/2017 @ 12:15 pm
I mean, if he was in Chicago that day he did not get there by train or by bus, I imagine.
The FAA knows where Trump’s jet was on what dat, doesn’t it?
Now you know how to establish whether your thesis, that Trump was in Chicago on 9/11 when the Towers fell, is true.Frederick (64d4e1) — 9/20/2017 @ 12:15 pm
@SAmmy:If Trump left Chicago, he would have had to travel by land. All planes were grouinded except government planes.
There it is. He can’t get from Chicago to New York in a few hours by land. His jet must have been in Chicago on the day, right, and not left until after 9/11–or he took one of those government planes–either way someone in government has a record, if he was indeed in Chicago.
So, you know how to verify this.Frederick (64d4e1) — 9/20/2017 @ 12:17 pm
Oh,youmean coming to Chicago? Yes, at one time there would have been a record. Is it public or still available?
There ought to be records either way,whatever is true. Trump says he was with a group of people. That agrees with the 2006 TIME Almanac story. Adrian Smith, the architect, who is quoted by TIME as saying Trump was in his offices but in talking to the Chicago Tribune in 2011, he slides over who else was there.
You almost wouldn’t realize represenatives of Trump at least had to be there.
There’s been plenty of opportunity for people to write about it. ,
Either Adrian Smith lied to TIME circa 2005 about Donald Trump being in his offices, or Donald Trump lied to or misled WWOR on the afternoon of September 11, 2001.
Trump might have lied or let people assume he was in New York to snag that WWOR interview. They introduce him as a witness.
Both versions place other people with him. Who?Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 9/20/2017 @ 12:25 pm
We know Trumop was in New York Sept 13, and it is apaprently the first time he went to Ground Zero. No, he couldn’t have gotten back to New York by mid-afternoon Sept. 11. Besides which he says something about being able to see The WTC from a window he has.Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 9/20/2017 @ 12:27 pm
@Sammy: Well, I for one find it more parsimonious that Adrian Smith misremembered the meeting he was going to have, than that Trump was in Chicago on 9/11 and no one has come forward with it, with you think of all the other stuff that’s been dug up.
Anyway, I’ve pointed you in the direction of evidence that would clinch it pretty securely one way or another. Either Trump’s jet was in Chicago on 9/11, or it was in New York, and there’s a record of it either way.Frederick (64d4e1) — 9/20/2017 @ 12:28 pm
110. No I don’t know how to verify this. I only know theer must be some wasy to do so. Too many people actually would know the facts.
Omission of any detail by Trump all these years as to where he was would be significant.
By the way I think I remember resding Hillary lied, or implied something different from the truth about where Chelsea was.
Anything Trump can do, she can do better.
But one of Senator Charles Schumer’s daughters was indeed in the vicinity – Stuyvesant high School.
Schumer kept quiet on a controversy about the air near Stuyvesant High School after the attacks:
https://www.villagevoice.com/2007/02/13/while-schumer-slept/Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 9/20/2017 @ 12:34 pm
113. Frederick (64d4e1) — 9/20/2017 @ 12:28 pm
Where do I look it up online?Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 9/20/2017 @ 12:35 pm
@Sammy: Why would I know? I’m just saying, the evidence that you would need is that evidence.Frederick (64d4e1) — 9/20/2017 @ 12:37 pm
@Frederick: If you don’t know how to research that, why are you telling me that I know how to establish whether my thesis, that Trump was in Chicago on 9/11 when the Towers fell, is true.
Incidentaly what couts is wherehe was in the morning. All of his communication with news organizations on Sept. 11, 2001, looks like it was by telephone call.
I think the person who worked for him who arranged the call with WWOR either said or let WWOR assume, that he had personally witnessed it. I think that assumption took Trump by surprise, amd he decided not to contradict that.Sammy Finkelman (db3b66) — 9/20/2017 @ 3:05 pm
But theres all sorts of collateral evidence taht will raise or lower the probability.
Look what I just found.
http://neoneocon.com/2016/02/20/could-trumps-entire-911-story-be-false/Sammy Finkelman (db3b66) — 9/20/2017 @ 3:10 pm
@Sammy:Look what I just found:
There isn’t anything new there; these are the same things you said, until you get to the end, which has this:
“I’m now very strongly leaning towards saying Trump is much more likely to be telling the truth about being in his apartment and that the Time article is more likely to have been mistaken. Probably it was either the architect who misremembered exactly who was there, when being interviewed three years later, or the article’s author had misunderstood him and thought he said Trump himself was there rather than just the representatives.”
She might have got it all from reading you, for all you know. Or you got it from reading someone who read her. That’s not confirmation.
If you don’t know how to research that, why are you telling me that I know how to establish whether my thesis, that Trump was in Chicago on 9/11 when the Towers fell, is true.
Because you have a valid test now to determine whether it is or is not true. It’s not my job to do your Googling for you; I’m just saying that if it’s out there, here’s the evidence you need.Frederick (64d4e1) — 9/20/2017 @ 3:48 pm
@Sammy Finkelman:I think the person who worked for him who arranged the call with WWOR either said or let WWOR assume, that he had personally witnessed it. I think that assumption took Trump by surprise, amd he decided not to contradict that.
If you can prove you’re descended from Perkin Warbeck, maybe the Queen will abdicate in your favor. In other words, you’re piling conjecture on conjecture now.
I’d take as step back and try to establish the fact of where Trump was on that day by looking for more contemporaneous evidence: such as where his jet was on 9/11.Frederick (64d4e1) — 9/20/2017 @ 3:51 pm
Sammy, you can try starting here.Frederick (64d4e1) — 9/20/2017 @ 3:55 pm
Does the FAA has historical records of all flights avbailable to the public?Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 9/25/2017 @ 2:44 pm