Salt Lake City Police Apologize to Nurse Arrested for Doing Her Job
streiff covered this incident earlier today. If you have Internet access, you have seen the video. Even if you have been living under a rock, you have heard about this, because people are running around showing the video to people living under rocks.
Now the police department has inevitably apologized:
Salt Lake City police apologized Friday for arresting a nurse who, citing hospital policy, refused to let officers draw blood from an unconscious accident victim. The arrest of Alex Wubbels, who was later released without charge, was captured on body camera video that the police chief said was alarming.
The incident happened July 26, when an accident victim was admitted to the University of Utah Hospital burn unit in a coma. Though the man was not a suspect in the crash, which killed the other driver, police asked for his blood to be drawn.
Wubbels, the charge nurse in the burn unit, presented the officers with a printout of hospital policy on drawing blood and said their request did not meet the criteria. Hospital policy specified police needed either a judge’s order or the patient’s consent, or the patient needed to be under arrest, before obtaining a blood sample.
“I’m just trying to do what I’m supposed to do. That’s all,” Wubbels tells the officers, according to the body camera video.
If they think the apology is forestalling a lawsuit, I would like to take this opportunity to heartily laugh at them. The lawsuit is coming. The only question is how big the payout will be.
[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]
This is just so bad.
What were they thinking… oh wait, clearly they weren’t thinking at all.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/1/2017 @ 9:53 pmI hope her lawyers add a count to the complaint to have that cop abated as public nuisance, to wit, too great a danger to the community to be allowed to exist.
nk (dbc370) — 9/1/2017 @ 9:54 pmSaw this at HotAir. An absolutely stunning story. That a Detective would understand so little about the limitations on taking blood in a criminal investigation is just shocking.
This guy should be demoted back to patrol, or fired outright.
The nurse has a great unlawful arrest claim.
shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 9/1/2017 @ 9:58 pmNot being involved in LE or the legal profession, I have a few questions.
Angelo (fdde05) — 9/1/2017 @ 10:11 pmSLPD wasn’t even involved in the chase, it happened 90 mi south in Logan. Logan PD asked SLPD to get the blood.
1) Why did LPD want the blood test, when the trucker was an innocent bystander? Was it to help mitigate LPDs screwup in the high speed chase?
2) Why would SLPD Det. Payne be such a dummy to be so forceful and aggressive, when his PD isn’t really involved?
Horrible. The guy they wanted the blood from is not even a suspect!
Sue their pants off, lady!
Patricia (5fc097) — 9/1/2017 @ 10:12 pmshe might be innocent but Jeffy Sessions says they can still do asset forfeiture on her house anyway
that’s american law in utah so youtube that
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/1/2017 @ 10:16 pmshe might be innocent but Jeffy Sessions says they can still do asset forfeiture on her house anyway
that’s american law in utah so youtube that
Oh? Her house was where this happened? I thought it was in an emergency room.
nk (dbc370) — 9/1/2017 @ 10:33 pmjeffy sessions says they can’t do assets forfeit on an emergency room cause that would be
well, kinda nuts
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/1/2017 @ 10:41 pmI’m going to build a time machine and go back in time to show Saddam Hussein this video in his spider-hole because he probably lacks for empathy.
Pinandpuller (9bed57) — 9/1/2017 @ 11:17 pmOK State Trooper pulls over ambulance for not pulling over
Pinandpuller (9bed57) — 9/1/2017 @ 11:22 pmAngelo @4:
1) Why did LPD want the blood test, when the trucker was an innocent bystander? Was it to help mitigate LPDs screwup in the high speed chase?
Yes, it’s a sure bet. The Blue Wall always tries to dirty up the victim, make him look like some kind of criminal. They did it with Philando Castille and they did it with Justine Damond, too (searching their homes for any dirt they could find even though the incidents happened elsewhere). In this case, it would be something like: “Reaction time matters. If he hadn’t had alcohol or drugs in his system, he would have avoided the accident.”
2) Why would SLPD Det. Payne be such a dummy to be so forceful and aggressive, when his PD isn’t really involved?
The Blue Wall, again. He didn’t want to let other cops down. It doesn’t matter that they’re from another department. They have their own sub-culture, like Gypsies or the Mafia.
nk (dbc370) — 9/2/2017 @ 5:43 amThe Showtime at the Apollo twitterati is thinking this is all so much easier to sort out in this case because all parties are #h###. Add in the LDS skepicism about authority; must be nice.
urbanleftbehind (847a06) — 9/2/2017 @ 6:33 amThe cop should have drawn the blood himself if it was so important (joke). Reminds me of a Long Beach judge that put an electronic shock belt on a defendant and ordered the bailiff to shock the defendant when he disrupted the proceedings.
AZ Bob (f7a491) — 9/2/2017 @ 7:41 amBTW Utah is almost a dry state.
AZ Bob (f7a491) — 9/2/2017 @ 7:43 amWhich is not a bad thing necessarily.
AZ Bob (f7a491) — 9/2/2017 @ 7:43 amDetective Payne has fired himself; he just doesn’t know it yet. The other officers who were present at the scene have, at the very least, opened themselves to administrative sanction for not preventing Mr Payne from firing himself. Lt. James Tracy, the watch commander on duty that night, who supposedly advised Mr Payne to arrest Alex Wubbels, has also fired himself, if he actually did give that instruction to Mr Payne.
Currently, the detective has been ‘reassigned,’ but you can bet your last shilling that the police will allow Mr Payne, and probably Lt Tracy, to resign to lower their legal exposure in the forthcoming lawsuit. Nursing is the most trusted profession in America.
The Dana who is married to a nurse (b04470) — 9/2/2017 @ 7:44 amIs ‘cop mentality’ becoming a greater problem because our Presidunce is an enabler? I digress…
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 7:48 amUtah was proud to vote for Mcguffin no, what did Payne think he was accomplishing was he going to srnf the sample to the police lab for processing?
narciso (d1f714) — 9/2/2017 @ 7:51 amThe Robert from Senator McCain’s home state wrote:
That was what he wanted to do; the nurse wouldn’t allow him to do so.
Thing is, any patient with severe burns is going to have had blood samples taken anyway: electrolyte imbalance is a huge problem for burn patients. Standard treatment will include intravenous fluids, saline, probably potassium, and everything must be monitored to help the patient to survive. Too high potassium levels can cause cardiac arrest, as can bottoming out electrolyte levels.
The Dana who isn't a medical professional (b04470) — 9/2/2017 @ 8:11 amI discussed this with my darling bride, and her immediate reaction was, “He’s toast.”
The Dana who has been married for 38 years, 3 months and 14 days (b04470) — 9/2/2017 @ 8:13 amNot just toast, but toast which has fallen on the floor, buttered side down.
On #InternationalBaconDay, no less!
The Dana trying to create a visual image (b04470) — 9/2/2017 @ 8:16 amThing is, any patient with severe burns is going to have had blood samples taken anyway:
Yes, there’s more than one implied consent when you have an unconscious person in an emergency room.
1. There’s the exception to the Fourth Amendment implied consent, invented by Rehnquist and the judge (then still a lawyer) who locked up Paris Hilton, that says every time you get behind the wheel of a car you give the government permission to stick a needle in you; and
2. There’s the emergency medicine implied consent which says that a patient who cannot give express consent because of, for example, unconsciousness, intoxication, mental illness, or infancy, impliedly consents to emergency life-saving treatment that a reasonable person would expressly consent to if he wanted to live.
nk (dbc370) — 9/2/2017 @ 8:24 amNk is an officer if the Admiralty Law court. Common Law court not in session for waterways and vessels regarding vehicle ‘codes’.
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 8:28 amSome wonder how one has to prove one’s innocence in traffic court. Others accept that violation of Rights without a whimper.
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 8:31 amGreetings:
WHite on WHite police over-reaction doesn’t sound like that much of a money-maker to me. Somebody better start fomenting something soon.
11B40 (6abb5c) — 9/2/2017 @ 8:37 am25
White on white?
‘You can always hire half the whites to kill the other half’
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 8:39 amPathetic.
mg (31009b) — 9/2/2017 @ 8:47 amWonder what else this moron has done?
13… Excellent!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/2/2017 @ 8:52 amIf you promote Fife to detective rank, this sort of eff-up is a consequence.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/2/2017 @ 8:55 amSLC area is where most of the liberal Democrats live in the state. I have a lot of family – cousins, aunts, uncles – that live around the Springville-Provo-Orem area.
Excerpt from a letter home to The OC during the Summer of ’67…
“Dear mom and dad and family,
How are you all? I am fine. I have a new job picking cherries. I only make 3 and a half cents a pound so I have to pick a hundred pounds to get anywhere. I’m running out of money faster than I can make it, so could you please send up a few dollars to tide me over because I don’t want to leach. Today we went to Salt Lake and shopped most of the day. I bought a Van Hueson shirt for $2.50 and it looks pretty good.”
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/2/2017 @ 9:09 amA phrase at #26 that could be utteted by Lincoln, Soros, and now Burn, but who manipulated the German vs. agressions in the last Century.
urbanleftbehind (ba2c86) — 9/2/2017 @ 9:22 amYou’ll know soon enough when the hammer’s coming down – it’s as soon as the officer(s) involved here are referred to as *ex* officers. No police officer is ever punished for anything he’s ever done, only ex-police officers. And, no, getting fired for illegal acts is not a punishment no matter how hard they try to argue that it is.
Jerryskids (cfad51) — 9/2/2017 @ 9:55 amDana, I though it was clear that I was making a “(joke).”
AZ Bob (f7a491) — 9/2/2017 @ 10:16 amSeriously, I didn’t think the cop asked for a syringe and was going to pull the blood himself.
Did he?
AZ Bob (f7a491) — 9/2/2017 @ 10:19 amFor Ben burn @26:
http://americandigest.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/DIhjRFKUwAAn-HX.jpg
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 9/2/2017 @ 10:24 amin future these stupid filthy cops should be barred from entering hospitals in Utah until they’ve established they have their paperwork in order
you have to keep dogs like these on a short leash
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/2/2017 @ 10:30 am@34, et seq– I think that was the plan. The SLPD has a” phlebotomy” unit (that might not be the official name of it) where those assigned have had the appropriate training and license to draw blood. They pull all the blood for their cases, keeping the procedure consistent and the chain of custody within the department.
The nurse’s issue was that the party whose blood was to be drawn did not meet the criteria established between the hospital and the SLPD; he was not under arrest, could not give consent and the officer had no warrant or court order to draw the blood. He was the “other driver” and the story is that the investigating department wanted to provide cover for him as there was most certainly legal action pending from the original event. There were no legal grounds to get a search warrant.
The foregoing is based on news accounts of this mess, and I reserve the right to adjust my opinion(s) should actual facts become known to replace what was provided in the news accounts.
Gramps (a079bc) — 9/2/2017 @ 10:48 amFiled under “Good News For teh Left”: soon an effective product that ben, ASPCA and a few others can use!
https://spectrum.ieee.org/whitepaper/shielding-effectiveness-of-expanded-metal-foils-emfs
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/2/2017 @ 10:49 am“The foregoing is based on news accounts of this mess, and I reserve the right to adjust my opinion(s) should actual facts become known to replace what was provided in the news accounts.”
Gramps (a079bc) — 9/2/2017 @ 10:48 am
By teh Mighty Hammer of Thor, we need more of this approach around here!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/2/2017 @ 10:51 amI have known many cops in my life, two are ranking officers and close friends. I think they’re all corrupt. There is a certain mindset that goes into a profession whose job it is to punish and confine their fellow man. Yeah, yeah, I know. Thin blue line and all that. But never forget the cops work for the government, not us.
And don’t believe that “To Protect and to Serve” crap. They are there to harass us, extort fines from us, jail us and cause us to forfeit our property (which they get a cut of). I’ve heard stories about money, sex, extortion, drugs, bribery and more. Make your head spin.
But they’re first responders! That is correct, they respond. Which means the crime has already been committed. In 95% of calls the crime is done and the criminal gone. In the other 5% they either shoot the guy or get shot.
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 9/2/2017 @ 10:56 amThis cop would have a field day at the all white burning gender neutral festival at the black rock desert.
mg (31009b) — 9/2/2017 @ 10:56 amGood Mea Culpa. Now about that training follow up…
“I was alarmed by what I saw in the video with our officer and Ms. Wubbles. I am sad at the rift this has caused between law-enforcement and the nurses we work so closely with. I want to be clear, we take this very seriously. Immediate steps were taken and within 12 hours, body cam footage was reviewed and an internal affairs investigation started. We’ve looked at the actions that took place, the policies that could have prevented it, and the training that must be done. Within 24 hours of this incident, Salt Lake City Police Department took steps to ensure this will never happen again. We met with hospital CEO and COO, Nursing Management Team, their legal representation team, and University of Utah Chief Brophy.
Most notable of all these conversations were that we apologized for the incident and promised to find a solution. Additionally, our policy management team continues to work closely with the hospital staff on improved policies and training.
To date, we have suspended the officer from the blood draw program. We have already replaced our blood draw policy with a new policy. All remaining officers on the blood draw program have reviewed, and are operating under the new policy and protocol.
It is my sincere desire to get back to a very cooperative, respectful, and friendly relationship with our “brothers and sisters in white” we work so closely with. Salt Lake City Police Officers have a very soft spot in our hearts for all medical professionals. We know that if we are ever hurt in the line of duty, it is their caring hands that will perhaps save our lives one day.
I believe we can learn from mistakes and from building strong relationships with everyone we work with and serve. By doing that we become a stronger police department.”
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 10:59 amWithin 24 hours of this incident, Salt Lake City Police Department took steps to ensure this will never happen again.
the important thing is none of the corrupt stupid cops have been held accountable in any way
to do otherwise would set a dangerous precedent
the only consequences suffered are those afflicted upon the saucy nurse who failed to show appropriate deference – and she was more than a bit womanish and pigheaded about standing up for the law even after the police officers made it very very clear they were intent upon violating it
some people have to learn the hard way
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/2/2017 @ 11:11 amI actually credit the Det.’s explanation. You have a fatal accident in a high speed chase, and the person he wants to draw blood from is the innocent 3rd party driver.
There will certainly be lawsuits — at least involving the 3rd party suing the guy being chased who caused the accident.
The case law for liability of the police in high speed chases is very very favorable to police, so the Det. is not trying to protect the department here.
But by getting the guy’s blood somewhere close in time to the accident, the 3rd party driver would be able to show in a later suit that he was not driving under the influence, which would be contributory negligence on his part if he was.
But, just because the Det. had a worthy reason for wanting to take the guy’s blood, there still wasn’t a legal basis for the nurse to draw blood without his consent and without a warrant. If she draws the blood she opens up herself and the hospital to being sued.
No excuse for the Det. not understanding the law.
shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 9/2/2017 @ 11:12 amRev. Hoagie, #40 is more a extreme statement than I’ve heard from most public defenders. If your two cop friends are corrupt, time to make new friends.
AZ Bob (f7a491) — 9/2/2017 @ 11:14 amHoagies a PD?
Our jails are overcrowded.
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 11:33 amIf our jails are overcrowded, then build more.
AZ Bob (f7a491) — 9/2/2017 @ 11:37 amYeah. More jails…hopefully, for-profit.
In October 2013, the incarceration rate of the United States of America was the highest in the world, at 716 per 100,000 of the national population. While the United States represents about 4.4 percent of the world’s population, it houses around 22 percent of the world’s prisoners.
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 11:43 amUnited States incarceration rate – Wikipedia
They should put lefties in the main jail of any large city for a two week vacation. That would help disabuse them of most of their dog excrement “beliefs” and give ’em a healthy dose of reality, help ’em mature.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/2/2017 @ 11:54 amPrison remains a lifetime achievement award for persistence in criminal offending. America has a crime problem, not an incarceration problem. Read the link by Heather MacDonald.
AZ Bob (f7a491) — 9/2/2017 @ 12:02 pm@49. =Haiku!= Gesundheit!
And ‘righties’ to the City Pound for them free distemper shots, eh, Colonel.
“The smell is disgusting…” – “Max” [voiced by Louis C.K.] ‘The Secret Life of Pets’ 2016
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/2/2017 @ 12:09 pmNonsense Abob. 500,000 non violent drug offenders incarcerated.
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2016.html
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 12:18 pmdo not pass go
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/2/2017 @ 12:19 pmBreaking- DOJ official report: No evidence Obama Adm., ‘wiretapped’ Trump Tower.
When you’re holdin’ a Red Cross meal today, Donald, don’t tweet it; eat it.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/2/2017 @ 12:22 pm54
Everyone knew already but they’ll be ready with alt/justifications.
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 12:25 pm52 look at the pie chart again.
AZ Bob (f7a491) — 9/2/2017 @ 12:29 pmStop cherry picking. Read..
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/global/
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 12:34 pmRev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 9/2/2017 @ 10:56 am
If I didn’t know better, based on that statement, I’d think you were a member of BLM or antifa.
kishnevi (a1b7cb) — 9/2/2017 @ 12:44 pmAccording to the #52 pie chart, out of 1,351,000 persons in state prisons, only 48,000 were for simple drug possession.
AZ Bob (f7a491) — 9/2/2017 @ 12:47 pm58… Could be a Philly thing?
I’m waiting for the film that tells the story of Democrat Jim Crow and how LBJ and the Democrat’s not-so-great “Great Society” actions reformed the life and vitality right out of America’s black community… https://www.yahoo.com/news/clooney-puts-poison-anywhere-usas-peanut-butter-115630320.html
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/2/2017 @ 12:48 pmParsing down to ‘simple where you’re comfortable. Cherry picker…
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/chapter/drug_prison
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 12:53 pmThe simple minded seek facts Trumpian
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 12:54 pmYeah, blueballs bennie’s got it all figured out
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/2/2017 @ 12:59 pmKeep chokin’ that chicken bennie!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/2/2017 @ 1:00 pmGimme 50 pfc…
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 1:01 pmAs to your public defender comment that’s because my livelihood doesn’t depend on making nice. But you did say “most” so you do realize I’m not completely off.
As to the second part of your comment you don’t get to choose my friends any more than I could choose their level of professional corruption. They were always good people to me and when you befriend a person sometimes they ain’t saints. I didn’t learn these things until I already determined I liked the guys. I realize that you guys with privilege didn’t travel in circles where you’d befriend rough city cops or even deplorable restaurant owners but that is my world. I am also friends with Philly mob guys both living and dead. Meh.
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 9/2/2017 @ 1:02 pmI knew ‘churn’ would muck up the water for literalists.
I always overestimate my opponent.
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 1:05 pmI’ve known a bunch of “rough” cops, and none of them were corrupt, and hated any sign of police corruption.
kishnevi (a1b7cb) — 9/2/2017 @ 1:06 pmThank you kishnevi.
AZ Bob (f7a491) — 9/2/2017 @ 1:18 pmHey kids, rub one out together
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/2/2017 @ 1:21 pmThe spotlight’s hitting someone
With some thoughts light as a feather
He gonna fukk that bird
So stick around
You’re gonna read
About a man beclowned
Say, nuttin’ from nuttin’ have you seen ’em yet
Uh but they’re raisinettes, B-B-B-Bennie with blue balls
Oh but he’s weird and they’re pitiful
Dat Bennie he’s quite a scene
He’s got teh Manson Lamps, thin hair like Gramps
You know, he reads teh Mad magazine
B-B-B-Bennie with blue balls
@70. =Haiku!= Gesundheit.
Confucius say candle in wind flames out.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/2/2017 @ 1:34 pmThat’s what passes muster for Haiku?
Such compost reminds me of Barney Miller episode..”It’s lunch. Want some?” “(Smelling) No thanks. Smells like garbage”
“Whaddya mean? That’s Chinese delicacy..fish heads, cabbage sour and turnip leaves…come to think of it, that IS garbage”
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 1:35 pmWell I would say that the apology will drop the settlement into the six figure rather than the seven figure range. It’s Salt Lake City after all. OTOH seeing what the Los Angeles City Council is willing to pay out in settlement (for fear of what a Los Angeles jury is likely to do) if this were a black nurse in LA, the settlement would be in the high seven figures.
Skeptical Voter (1d5c8b) — 9/2/2017 @ 2:02 pmMeanwhile…..
6 Police Officers Shot, 2 Dead in 3 US Cities Friday Night
http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-officers-shot-us-cities-friday-night-dead/story?id=49306317
harkin (a92711) — 9/2/2017 @ 2:12 pmhttps://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/904024528476614656
mg (31009b) — 9/2/2017 @ 2:15 pm2nd ammendment looturds
“Meanwhile..”
Blowbackian Trumpism.
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 2:26 pm57 Ben Burn — what exactly is a “non-violent” drug offense?
Is it a “non-violent” drug offense when there is a 5 lb meth transaction with an undercover officer, and a loaded .45 is found under the seat of the suspect’s car?
A more accurate characterization that addresses your point would be the number of “drug possession” incarcerations — not “possession with intent to distribute”.
If the reform advocates were truly honest about their numbers, they would be forced to admit that then number of people in prison for possessing personal use quantities of drugs is actually pretty low.
In my 23 years as a federal prosecutor — with hundreds (maybe more than a thousand) of cases involving drugs, I did not send a single person to federal prison for mere possession of personal use quantities of any drug — meth, heroin, cocaine, etc.
And I never sent anyone to prison — and I don’t think you would find a single case in the country of someone in federal prison — for possession of personal use quantities of marijuana. Why? Because that’s not defined in 21 USC Sec. 841 as a federal crime.
shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 9/2/2017 @ 2:40 pmre 74– …and on the other coast, Sacramento, CA — Aug 30th…
http://www.kcra.com/article/deputy-killed-chp-officers-injured-in-shooting-near-sacramento-county-motel/12140437
Hoagie’s comment at 40 is incredibly disrespectful to those of us in that business, who took the “protect and serve” seriously.
Gramps (a079bc) — 9/2/2017 @ 2:54 pmThat taps were conducted by the fbi’s counterintelligence division, headed by prietap, of whose background. We know well.
narciso (d1f714) — 9/2/2017 @ 2:56 pm78 – Yeah – lots of strange comments in this thread.
Including 76 – Not sure what Trump has to with cop killings.
harkin (a92711) — 9/2/2017 @ 3:00 pmThere is the systemic corruption symbolized by the war on drugs in general and asset forfeiture in particular. (Think of it this way: because of asset forfeiture, police have an incentive to arrest people who will never be charged with a crime.) Trump’s AG likes asset forfeiture.
There is also the propensity to abuse lawful authority, of which this Salt Lake City case is a good example. Trump’s pardon of Arpaio and his “joke” about not treating arrestees tenderly encourage that.
kishnevi (a1b7cb) — 9/2/2017 @ 3:13 pmThe two cops in kissimmee were executed by Ali Mohammed Ali, who identifies with the Moorish nation, the ones tired to the Dallas slayings
narciso (d1f714) — 9/2/2017 @ 3:15 pmBecause that’s not defined in 21 USC Sec. 841 as a federal crime.
But usually a state crime, and decriminalization means simply a state won’t actually enforce that.
But libertarian that I am, let me pose a question: if it’s not morally blameable to possess drugs for personal use, why is it morally blameable to sell those people drugs for personal use? If the former shouldn’t be a crime why should the latter.
kishnevi (a1b7cb) — 9/2/2017 @ 3:18 pmBecause illegality does not equal immorality, and law-abidedness does not equal virtue. Not all things which are illegal are immoral, and not all things which are legal are moral. Just cause Colorado says it’s ok to smoke marijuana does not mean it’s moral to smoke marijuana, anymore than when it says you’ve got to bake a gay wedding cake it is immoral to refuse to bake a gay wedding cake.
nk (dbc370) — 9/2/2017 @ 3:50 pmBreaking- CNN reports N.Korea claims to have an ICBM-mountable hydrogen bomb.
Fake news? But great pictures of Kim and pals in uniform hovering around a fire hydrant disguised as a thermonuclear device wearing no clean-room garb or any radiation badges.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/2/2017 @ 3:56 pmPresumption floated is that if the injured guy had drugs, or if the cops’ lab could put some in, then there could be some obfuscation about the high speed chase ‘n shit.
Richard Aubrey (0d7df4) — 9/2/2017 @ 3:58 pm80 see 81.
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 4:05 pmShipwrecked.
You have the floor on the semantics of non-violence. Just One question:
Can you justify making cannabis a schedule 1 drug, as bad as heroin and cocaine? Let me help you…you can’t.
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 4:12 pmYou moral sand pounders should get a congregation.
Ben burn (426255) — 9/2/2017 @ 4:13 pm86 – disagree w Trump, shoot cops.
Got it.
Just like disagree w speech, riot.
harkin (a92711) — 9/2/2017 @ 4:17 pmI’ll disagree with shipwreckedcrew at 44. I don’t think this detective was looking to protect the unconscious patient. The hospital had already done several blood draws as the Dana who is married to a nurse pointed out, and they would include a toxicology screen for anything from alcohol to blood pressure medication, which would be available with all the rest of his medical records in the event of a lawsuit. He was just looking for dirt, to help cover the ass of the Logan cops.
nk (dbc370) — 9/2/2017 @ 4:18 pmi don’t remember the abc fake news propaganda sluts doing any weekend roundups of murdered cops when food stamp was president
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/2/2017 @ 4:20 pmPar for the course:
https://spectator.org/fake-news-ignorant-reporters-blame-houston/
narciso (d1f714) — 9/2/2017 @ 4:27 pm88 Ben Burn — let me show everyone how little you understand about this subject. Trust me, you are going down the wrong path with me on this.
Marijuana — its not called cannabis — is a Schedule I controlled substance.
Cocaine, heroin, and methamphetamine are all Schedule II controlled substances.
I bet you think that the reason for the classification difference is that some moron in the federal government like Jeff Sessions actually thinks marijuana is more dangerous than the other three.
If so, that would make you the moron.
The difference in designation stems from the fact that there is STILL NO recognized medicinal purpose for the use of marijuana, whereas there are medically recognized beneficial purposes for the use of amphetamines, opioids, and coca derived substances.
As such, all three are considered Schedule II controlled substances, which means they can be prescribed by a licensed physician with a DEA Certificate, and they can be lawfully used pursuant to any such prescription.
Don’t ask me what medical purpose they can serve, I’m not a doctor. But that’s why they are all listed in Schedule II.
All substances listed as Schedule I have no recognized medicinal purpose. So they cannot be lawfully prescribed under federal law by a licensed medical practitioner.
AND, its actually a violation of the DEA Certificate held by any doctor to prescribe it even when authorized by state law. The feds have actually turned a blind eye to doctors who prescribe marijuana. If they really wanted to shut down the state-based bogus “Medicinal marijuana” industry they could easily do so by having DEA suspend the certificates of all the doctors writing marijuana prescriptions. That would end that practice pretty quickly.
shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 9/2/2017 @ 5:34 pmYou’re not a Dr?
I know enough about the cannabigots to know they aren’t scientists or even well informed. I’m surprised you didn’t break into the ‘Gateway’ idiocy.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 9/2/2017 @ 5:42 pmJust one of many cannibinoids tardily researched because of bigoted bureaucrats.
http://www.thecannabist.co/2016/07/07/nfl-marijuana-study-sports-injuries/57745/
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 9/2/2017 @ 5:47 pmBeen is still stuck on telegraph square in 1969, put down the brown acid.
narciso (d1f714) — 9/2/2017 @ 5:48 pmBen burn illustrates Matthew 7:6:
But he serves as a useful reminder that there worse things than Trump. Not to mention dumber.
nk (dbc370) — 9/2/2017 @ 5:50 pmNk…Matthew 23 is for thee.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 9/2/2017 @ 5:51 pm@kishnevi:if it’s not morally blameable to possess drugs for personal use, why is it morally blameable to sell those people drugs for personal use? If the former shouldn’t be a crime why should the latter.
If it’s not morally blameable to have sex, why is it morally blameable to have sex for money?
If it’s not morally blameable to donate a kidney, why is it morally blameable to buy a kidney for money?
If it’s not morally blameable to adopt a baby, why is it morally blameable to purchase one?
I think one of these examples should illustrate the distinction for you, though I wouldn’t imagine you agree with all of them. I myself accept some but not others.
Frederick (d9c384) — 9/2/2017 @ 5:52 pmBen is a classic comments section faux edgy dick. Tiresome, unoriginal, attention-ho’ing, pretentious, vapid… Endless adjectives apply.
Jack Klompus (2dd730) — 9/2/2017 @ 5:53 pmBen, you should gay-marriage DCSCSACSAwhatever and tongue bathe each other in your dissident cool guy acts.
Jack Klompus (2dd730) — 9/2/2017 @ 5:55 pmhttp://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2576617
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 9/2/2017 @ 5:55 pmhttps://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-science-behind-the-dea-s-long-war-on-marijuana/
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 9/2/2017 @ 5:57 pmIt’s tiresomely compelling for Klompus, apparently.
I’ll attempt to adapt to your stylistic groping.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 9/2/2017 @ 5:59 pmShipwrecked: your years of swallowing the Federal flounder whole is addressed in the last link offered.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 9/2/2017 @ 6:00 pmMany would disagree. Decades ago the DEA’s own administrative law judge, Francis Young, recommended unscheduling cannabis in response to a petition from activist groups. Young ruled in 1988 that “marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within a supervised routine of medical care.” The DEA denied the petition anyway.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 9/2/2017 @ 6:02 pmYou’re a real freedom fighter.
Jack Klompus (2dd730) — 9/2/2017 @ 6:02 pmThe problem here is that there is no real consequence for the cops who pulled this stunt. So there will be a lawsuit, and then the city will pick up the tab. Big deal. How is that a deterrent?
How about fire them with no pension and benefits, and a “dishonorable discharge” or whatever they call it. Let them spend the rest of their life being a nightwatchman for a warehouse.
You wear the badge, you represent the public. That’s your authority. Abuse it, and you get taken down.
Bored Lawyer (fe5e63) — 9/2/2017 @ 6:04 pmElect 218 Representatives, 51 Senators, and one dope-friendly President, and then you can change the Controlled Substances Schedules. Until then, save your Timothy Leary and Cheech & Chong “science” for those who want to hear it.
nk (dbc370) — 9/2/2017 @ 6:07 pmDet. Payne and his Lieutenant need to be mopping floors in that ER for 6 months of weekends. 12-hour shifts.
LTMG (9d21e3) — 9/2/2017 @ 6:10 pmi was fighting for freedom then i decided to make small-batch artisinal mashed potatoes
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/2/2017 @ 6:14 pmi was fighting for freedom then i decided to make small-batch artisinal mashed potatoes
“Oh yeah, the clown. The only one of you buffoons who doesn’t make me laugh!
Jack Klompus (2dd730) — 9/2/2017 @ 6:26 pm^ From Ned Flanders and his freakout after the Springfield storm. Look! I drop quotes like DSCSCASCSA to add heft to my dick one-dimensional partisan displays of misery and dumping on Texas!
Jack Klompus (312725) — 9/2/2017 @ 6:29 pmHe’s a nasty cinchbug who befouled at least one other blog, as for disco xuck, how many dogs at Texas are allowable in their time of distress.
I would rather hear the lt speak before hanging him out to dry, some the accusation is born out like in Cleveland and sometimes not like in ferguson.
narciso (d1f714) — 9/2/2017 @ 6:40 pmi wouldn’t never have said about the mashed potatoes if i’d knew you was gonna be so mean
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/2/2017 @ 6:41 pmDumb question, even if an offense is committed why the arrest?
Where I live they would be issued with a summons, the arrest wouldn’t pass muster even if she committed an offense.
benaud (b6b0fa) — 9/2/2017 @ 9:34 pmOne thing I’m curious about. Would the cop had stones enough to arrest the judge if the warrant the nurse needed had been refused? I’m guessing no.
Bill H (383c5d) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:47 amThat’s just it benaud. There was no offence on her part. She was working within medical ethics and a protocol based in law that Salt Lake and the hospital had worked out. I guess the cop figured powers of arrest are completely unrestricted. The nurse got in the way of that.
Bill H (383c5d) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:56 amWhether stupefying blasts of intoxication or intoxicating blasts of stupefaction, Ben has bonged himself bonkers.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/3/2017 @ 6:11 amhttps://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1283530118423671&id=981095758667110
narciso (d1f714) — 9/3/2017 @ 6:17 amDoes the Kernel believe in his own opinions? Like Beldar the Magnificent..his words are the only evidence he needs.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 9/3/2017 @ 7:15 amGreetings:
Me, I’m thinking that more countries need more access to more intoxicants.
11B40 (6abb5c) — 9/3/2017 @ 8:02 am4. Angelo (fdde05) — 9/1/2017 @ 10:11 pm
On the off chance that he might test positive so as deflect blame from the LPD.
Because it may be the first time he’s been ordered to do something that he has no right to do – in these circumstances when the patient does not consent. Somebody conscious probably would, out of fear of being accused of being responsible for the crash.
Sammy Finkelman (a279f3) — 9/3/2017 @ 8:16 am94. shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 9/2/2017 @ 5:34 pm
the key word there is recognized.
Since 1962, it’s been extremely difficult and progressively more expensive and time-consuming to get new medical purposes recognized Also I think the uses for heroin and cocaine were recognized before they became illegal. The same thing is true for amphetamines.
One medical use of heroin – or of oxycodeine and other opioids – that’s very unfortunately NOT recognized is to maintain an addict.
As a result death rates from overdoses have been skyrocketing since they started cracking down a few years ago. Very, very stupid, if you can say any thought went into it at all – but very very stupid policy. They didn’t even make sure legal substitutes were available.
How is this ny more or less legal than DACA? It’s not official, that’s all.
Sammy Finkelman (a279f3) — 9/3/2017 @ 8:52 amThe crew shipwrecked somewhere wrote:
Actually, the prescription drug Marinol®, which uses a synthetic form of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), and is approved by the FDA for two indications: chemotherapy-induced nausea and vomiting and anorexia associated with weight loss in patients with AIDS.
Marijuana itself is not approved for anything, as the people who push the cockamamie ‘medical marijuana’ meme know full well; they’re just trying to get a foot in the door for legalizing marijuana.
Whether marijuana is worse than alcohol or not is not a question which interests me. The argument that it isn’t as bad as alcohol is, to me, not an argument for legalizing marijuana, but one for making alcohol illegal.
The pharmacist Dana (f1c5f8) — 9/3/2017 @ 11:15 amYou god-botherers stick your noses where it doesn’t belong.
Bang those Bibles in the privacy of your ignorance.
Ben burn (eb1e37) — 9/3/2017 @ 11:18 amFrederick wrote:
It may be sinful to have sex, depending upon the situation, but it isn’t illegal, and I fail to see how we can make illegal to do something for money that is perfectly legal if done for free. That includes prostitution, organ donation and adoptions.
The libertarian Dana (f1c5f8) — 9/3/2017 @ 11:22 amMr burn wrote:
Is this not a public forum? Why do you condemn the freedom of expression that our esteemed host has granted?
The very libertarian Dana (f1c5f8) — 9/3/2017 @ 11:23 amMr Lawyer wrote:
Oh, Detective Payne, at the very least, has fired himself. I suggest that he will be allowed to resign, to protect whatever pension and benefits he has built up, rather than the city having to go through whatever procedures are necessary to discharge him. The rest will, at the very least, suffer some form of administrative discipline, and they should count themselves lucky if that’s all that happens to them.
The very practical Dana (f1c5f8) — 9/3/2017 @ 11:27 amYour moral quandary is private. Would you like me to describe perverted sexual acts for free speech reciprocity?
Ben burn (eb1e37) — 9/3/2017 @ 11:29 amMr Finkelman wrote:
He wasn’t ordered to do this; he sought out that order from Lt Tracy, his shift supervisor. He saw it as a necessity, and got urinated off when he was refused. At that point, he let his emotions take control over his actions, and f(ornicated) up bigly.
The realistic Dana (f1c5f8) — 9/3/2017 @ 11:31 amIf you have a moral problem with marijuana perhaps you should not imbibe. Then keep your superior airs to yourself.
Ben burn (eb1e37) — 9/3/2017 @ 11:32 amMr burn gets all riled up:
Doesn’t matter to me: I have perfect freedom to choose not to read what someone else posts. Perhaps, in your excoriation of “god-botherers,” you have forgotten that you have the same right not to read a particular comment.
The Dana who supports the First Amendment (f1c5f8) — 9/3/2017 @ 11:34 amOf course you’re right.
Bible bangers sure like to dissuade the skeptical with their Theocratic paradise. Jesus has his hands full with stumblers.
Ben burn (eb1e37) — 9/3/2017 @ 11:58 amThat includes prostitution, organ donation and adoptions.
No, if Frederick is making the point he intended to make, I agree with him. Those three things are, in essence, turning human life into marketable commodities. The question becomes how free are we to degrade ourselves into a commodity by accepting money in return for providing sex or organs. They run on a spectrum. At one pole, definitely not, is selling children (who are unable to consent). At the other end is the normal employee employer relationship (or contractor customer relationship and all permutations thereof,) where the answer is a definite yes. Prostitution and organ donation fall into the middle.
In that sense, drug use is different. No one is commodifying life.
BTW, this point is the philosophical reason I am for universal health care. Making access to health care depend on one’s financial resources (savings, insurance, charity appeals) is turning human life into a commodity: your worth as a human being is measured by the balance of your bank account.
kishnevi (480bf9) — 9/3/2017 @ 12:48 pmTrue, they are commodifying death.
Not the best correction, I’ll admit.
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:02 pmAdmit the morally superior tone, Felipe. Your humility needs work.
Ben burn (eb1e37) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:06 pmThe way it’s supposed to work is the city–the government and the citizens–are annoyed at the size of the settlement, since it means money not available for more congenial operations including bonuses for the drones.
Richard Aubrey (0d7df4) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:08 pmSo they threaten the top cop with dire consequences if he doesn’t straighten out the department, or they fire him and make sure the replacement knows what hot to do. See Minneapolis.
Or the top cop showily fires the ultimate butthead and, possibly, his supervisor. This signals the top cop is Good Guy and needn’t be fired.
Meantime, if the vic is a sympathetic figure–a blond nurse is the top of the tree in this regard–the local prosecutor goes after the ultimate butthead. Possibly his supervisor if the latter can be dragged in somehow.
So immunity of various kinds doesn’t actually mean, you know, actual immunity.
What you perceive is only a problem for you, Ben. Which troubles you, that there is a difficulty in living up to lofty ideals, or that there are “ideals” are so low that they present one with no difficulty?
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:13 pmA lack of humility from the Christian perspective is YOUR problema, felipe.
Ben burn (eb1e37) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:16 pmSee that? It takes humility to correct oneself?
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:16 pmAre you saying you are not Christian, Ben?
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:16 pmAre you saying humility is a Christian trait?
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:17 pmDo you even know what you are saying, Ben?
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:18 pmNow you’re cooking with gas. I’m Catholic..swear to Buddha.
Ben burn (eb1e37) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:19 pmI suspected as much: You are just slinging spaghetti in the air.
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:20 pmStill, my offer of establishing mutual respect stands. You need only accept it.
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:23 pmI have respect when respect is shown.
Ben burn (eb1e37) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:25 pmRichard Aubrey (0d7df4) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:08 pm
You forgot the police union taking everything to arbitration and forcing the city to rehire anyone fired because that’s the contract.
If you ever discuss public sector unions with a leftie, make sure to point out that police unions are the biggest obstacle to getting rid of bad cops.
kishnevi (480bf9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:25 pmTrue, they are commodifying death.
kishnevi (480bf9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:26 pmPoint taken, but I don’t accept your premise.
I think you meant to say: “I show respect when respect is shown.”
That you do not recognize respect, when is is being shown to you, comes as a surprise to me, Ben. You are demonstrating why casting pearls before swine is proscribed.
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:29 pmkishnevi (480bf9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:26 pm
I don’t blame you, Kishnevi. It is a hastily fashioned construct, a weak one at that.
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:31 pmI begin to wonder if we are speaking in idioms foreign to Ben?
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:35 pmI’m familiar with your idioms Felipe.
Are you familiar with the Parable of the Talents?
Ben burn (eb1e37) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:40 pmfelipe shows patience is indeed a virtue.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:46 pmYour comments have not demonstrated you understanding of my idioms, Ben. Why does my desire for comity between us present an obstacle to you?
You have buried you talent, Ben. You have buried it in the soil of worldly ideology that says “this, and no more!”. You must make your talent vulnerable by entrusting it to others. These “others” will help increase your return.
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:49 pmSee? Another self-correction. Am I humiliated!
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:50 pmColonel, you have shown me greater patience. To me; I who unjustly called you a “liar” on the internet – where everything is “forever.” You, my friend, are the patient and forgiving one. Is that Ben I hear retching in the background?
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:53 pm132. The realistic Dana (f1c5f8) — 9/3/2017 @ 11:31 am
I mean he was ordered to go get the blood sample. Wasn’t he? He didn’t traipse off to the hospital all by himself.
Once there, he discovered a complication. There had never been a complication like this before.
Sammy Finkelman (9716ab) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:57 pmFelipe: I’m sure you are a fine person even though misguided. But if you are looking to call me to the altar and have me confess my sins, you should know I’ve been to the circus: seen the puppet show.
Ben burn (eb1e37) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:57 pmOnce there, he discovered a complication. There had never been a complication like this before.
Sammy Finkelman (9716ab) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:57 pm
Copyright that line, Sammy, before nk takes it. Pure mystery gold.
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:59 pmI has a sad having to break this to you, ben, but you are teh puppet…
http://youtu.be/0ULd9wXRduA
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/3/2017 @ 2:01 pmBen burn (eb1e37) — 9/3/2017 @ 1:57 pm
Thank you, Ben. I, like you, was created in the image of God. I have no doubt that you have seen puppets and circuses, as have I. But do not mistake the follies on man for evidence in refutation of the divine. “If today you hear His voice, harden not your heart.”
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 2:04 pmI had never seen that before, Colonel. In fact, I never heard that song before. I think there are many Devo songs suited for mocking others.
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 2:10 pmThank you Felipe. I respect sincerity and I hope you’ll respect my theology similar to Spinoza having reverence for all life, including cannabis.
Ben burn (eb1e37) — 9/3/2017 @ 2:12 pmHmm, I know that Catholics don’t “do” alter calls. Does anyone know which Christian denomination(s) “does” alter calls?
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 2:17 pmYes, Ben, you may be assured of my respect for your sincerity as well.
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 2:21 pmLOL, I misspelled Altar – twice!
felipe (023cc9) — 9/3/2017 @ 2:27 pm“Copyright that line, Sammy, before nk takes it. Pure mystery gold.” Those eleven words would take Sammy and felipe through the adventure of their lifetime, from ancient Mayan ruins buried deep under the heart of Antarctica to a Bitcoin counterfeiting operation in the back room of a Harlem bodega, on the trail of an eldritch evil spawned in the aeons before Earth formed out of Chaos with an unquenchable thirst for human blood and Coke II.
nk (dbc370) — 9/3/2017 @ 5:20 pmYou know what they are doing with bitcoins? They are stealing telephone numbers, and eith them, thousands of dollars worth of bitcoins.
You see, a telephone number has become a proof of identity. Amazon and other places prefer it to an
email address.
But numbers can be ported.
Now someone can put a hold on a telephone number. But then someone can call the (usually) wireless phone company ad tell some story. And they can keep on trying. Each time they will get a different customer service representative. If it fails 13 times, it might succeed on the 14th try.
They started doing this last winter, focusing on people who revealed on Facebook, or elsewhere, that they had lots of money in bitcoins.
People saw their money being stolen in front of their eyes, and they couldn’t stop it. Calling customer service – well customer service was hard to get in contact with.
This was reported by the New York Times.
Sammy Finkelman (cfd3c2) — 9/3/2017 @ 5:55 pmDetective Payne apparently had a second job, as a paramedic for Gold Cross Ambulance service; he has been fired from that job.
The Dana who is married to a nurse (f1c5f8) — 9/5/2017 @ 7:53 pm169, this nascent Knight of COLUMBUS (in caps just to piss off his college buds) frowns upon thee
urbanleftbehind (847a06) — 9/5/2017 @ 7:56 pmbitcoins are naughty
plus i heard facebook pimp-daddy reginald zuckertwat says bitcoins are racist
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/5/2017 @ 7:57 pm