The Churchill Bust
Short on time this morning, I intended to do a feel-good story about the Churchill bust being restored to the White House, based on a link from a commenter. Except the link was to Gateway Pundit, so no. Gateway Pundit linked to this story, which claims it’s true. But then there’s this story, which says otherwise. I can’t sort it all out, so I’m taking the lazy (actually short on time) blogger’s way out and crowd-sourcing it. I know some commenters left links about this in comments recently (e.g. here), in particular this one:
Yesterday following his column, I sent the following email to Charles Krauthammer. Charles asked that I make the email public and I have agreed.
Charles,I take your criticism seriously and you are correct that you are owed an apology. There was clearly an internal confusion about the two busts and there was no intention to deceive. I clearly overshot the runway in my post. The point I was trying to make – under the belief that the Bust in the residence was the one previously in the Oval Office— was that this oft repeated talking point about the bust being a symbol of President Obama’s failure to appreciate the special relationship is false. The bust that was returned was returned as a matter of course with all the other artwork that had been loaned to President Bush for display in his Oval Office and not something that President Obama or his Administration chose to do. I still think this is an important point and one I wish I had communicated better.
A better understanding of the facts on my part and a couple of deep breaths at the outset would have prevented this situation. Having said all that, barring a miracle comeback from the Phillies I would like to see the Nats win a world series even if it comes after my apology
Thanks,
Dan Pfeiffer
Maybe y’all can flesh it out further.
I posted a vid on one of the other threads yesterday where Obama said in his own words why he’d sent the bust back… to make room for the MLK bust.
Colonel Haiku (32652f) — 11/15/2016 @ 7:57 amAsking the Brits to reoffer lb pthe bust would provide an excellent opportunity to confirm the “special relationship” and to twist Obama’s knickers.
ropelight (0ee51f) — 11/15/2016 @ 8:23 amHere ’tis… https://patterico.com/2016/11/14/trump-on-special-prosecutor-for-hillary-the-clintons-are-good-people-video/#comment-1951496
Colonel Haiku (32652f) — 11/15/2016 @ 8:35 amIt’s crazy — absolutely CRAZY — to think that the Nats can win a World Series any time soon.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 11/15/2016 @ 8:52 amFrom the Hill
Msl (0ea38d) — 11/15/2016 @ 10:40 amDem senator introducing bill to abolish Electoral College
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/306121-dem-senator-introducing-bill-to-abolish-electoral-college
Is “Churchilll” related to actor Scoey Mitchlll?
L.N. Smithee (b84cf6) — 11/15/2016 @ 10:41 amI remember Milhouse recently posting that the “Obama returns bust as snub” line was a false one. I wonder if he has some link or other story to flesh that out? If it isn’t true, then it isn’t true. Besides, I have that pic of him rather classlessly placing his feet on the “Resolute” desk.
Bill H (971e5f) — 11/15/2016 @ 10:45 amDude, seriously. If the Cubs can do it, the Nats can. Might take a while, but yah.
Bill H (971e5f) — 11/15/2016 @ 10:47 amPretty good rundown on the Churchill bust.
Msl (0ea38d) — 11/15/2016 @ 10:56 amhttps://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/politics/churchill-bust-short-history/
Barbara Boxer. I should have guessed.
Never mind that is only grandstanding. She knows it, we know it. If she is serious (we all know she isn’t), she will get up off her dead a** and get a Constitutional amendment going. She may want to get started soon. Getting the Constitution changed to suit her notion of
Bill H (971e5f) — 11/15/2016 @ 10:57 amdemocracymob rule may take longer than she has on earth.Agreed- that is a good article, if a little hard to fol;low. I never knew about the second bust (or the third!), nor did anyone that I knew of report that the second bust was in the President’s private office. Upshot is Obama wasn’t snubbing the British here, as we had all feared. He did that well enough with DVDs that were unviewable and an Ipod to the Queen loaded with his dronings.
Bill H (971e5f) — 11/15/2016 @ 11:18 amBill H,
I think Obama did snub the Brits and used the second bust (the copy) to pretend he never got rid of it in the first place. Unfortunately for Pfeiffer, they got caught by Krauthammer and had to apologize. Plus Breitbart reported we don’t know when the copy even went to the White House. It might have been part of an elaborate cover up.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/15/2016 @ 11:24 amIt’s no surprise that a loud mouth totalitarian scold from one of the most populous states would attemp to disenfranchise over half the nation.
I wonder how she’d like it if the GOP introduced legislation calling for a “One State – One Vote” policy.
ropelight (0ee51f) — 11/15/2016 @ 11:34 amI just realized you spelled Churchill on the top with 1 “I” followed by 3 “L”‘s.
I suppose it will remain churchilll in the URL.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 11/15/2016 @ 11:36 amThe President-elect will eventually put Winnie in a proper place.
But where?
“Down the hall and to the left.” – Donald Trump [Donald Trump] ‘Home Alone 2: Lost in New York’ 1992
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/15/2016 @ 11:37 amObama himself said there is only so much room for busts and that he thought many Brits would understand why he gave it back to make room for the MLK bust. What’s so difficult to understand about that? He’s on video saying it.
Colonel Haiku (32652f) — 11/15/2016 @ 11:40 amExcept the White House has repeatedly insister that Obama moved the Churchill bust to make room for the Lincoln bust, not the MLK bust. Busted again.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/15/2016 @ 12:43 pmWell who ya gonna trust, your lyin’ eyes and ears or the Obama administration!?!?
Colonel Haiku (32652f) — 11/15/2016 @ 1:00 pmThere are only so many places to put busts and if removing any of them gives offense, they’ll have to fill the whole office up eventually.
Maybe moving forward declare a moratorium on Bust Outrage. Can you imagine the noise if Trump removes the MLK bust?
Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 11/15/2016 @ 1:17 pmI have a suggestion where Obama can put the bust before he ankles out of there…
Colonel Haiku (32652f) — 11/15/2016 @ 1:23 pmBusted…
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/15/2016 @ 2:18 pmThe Brits took great offense. If this was simply a matter of some agreed-upon or traditional “rotation,” this would have been quashed then and there. They clearly were not expecting to have that bust returned at that time.
I vote for a Maggie bust in a place of honor this time around.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 11/15/2016 @ 2:34 pmI wonder how she’d like it if the GOP introduced legislation calling for a “One State – One Vote” policy.
That’s already in the Constitution as the backup option when nobody gets a majority in the Electoral College.
nk (dbc370) — 11/15/2016 @ 2:48 pmPatterico knows how much his life (and pension) depends on his position. Public Employee Union members only have one goal. And that goal is to make a net US taxpayer their slaves. And for Patt, it works for him.
Jack (e5af45) — 11/15/2016 @ 3:15 pmOff-Topic — somewhere hereabouts I put up a comment that folks on Twitter threatening to assassinate Trump ought to bear in mind that the Secret Service and FBI take that stuff seriously.
Today a 24 year old resident of Cleveland OH learned the lesson the hard way, as he was arrested for a series of Tweets on election night stating his intention to kill Trump, and describing it as his “life goal.”
Arrested today and held without bail pending his indictment in federal court.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
shipwreckedcrew (e90d7c) — 11/15/2016 @ 3:22 pmWhat do YOU do for a living, Jack?
L.N. Smithee (b84cf6) — 11/15/2016 @ 3:32 pmJack — I guess we could just live in a state of anarchy were no law enforcement or prosecutors were needed.
Good luck to you.
shipwreckedcrew (e90d7c) — 11/15/2016 @ 3:33 pmNo, they did not take offense. I can’t imagine where you got the idea that they did. Perhaps from Johnson, who literally has no possible way of knowing whether this is true, because he had no connection to the British government of the day. The loan was originally for only four years, and they graciously extended it to eight. When it was returned at the end of Bush’s presidency, before 0bama came in, the British completely expected it. If 0bama had wanted to keep it they’d have had to be asked again — as they will have to be if Trump wants to borrow it again.
Milhouse (40ca7b) — 11/15/2016 @ 4:13 pmThe key points to remember about the story Gateway Pundit links to are that (a) The bust that Bush had in the Oval Office belongs to the UK government and if Trump wants it he’ll have to ask to borrow it; (b) Nigel Farage is not a member of the UK government, does not speak for it, and has no influence on its decisions.
On the other hand, if Trump wants a Churchill bust in the Oval Office he can just put the one from the 2nd floor there, and doesn’t have to borrow the UK’s copy. Bush didn’t do that because it was being restored at the time.
Milhouse (40ca7b) — 11/15/2016 @ 4:20 pmThat’s exactly what she is doing. Of course it will go nowhere, but why do you say she’s not serious, when she is doing exactly what you say she would do if she were?
Milhouse (40ca7b) — 11/15/2016 @ 4:23 pmJack, at 24: There really isn’t a good way to have prosecutors who aren’t state employees. You can have lawyers in private lawsuits who don’t work for the state, but if anyone is going to prosecute someone *criminally*, then that person needs to be a state employee.
Are you saying we should have no criminal law and no enforcement of criminal law? Or are you saying that while these are necessary things, we should view with contempt anyone who takes the job and does them for us?
The first one is a recipe for anarchy, and the second one is a recipe for mistreating our employees.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 11/15/2016 @ 4:28 pmI wonder if the elections clause could be used to require states to allocate their electors either proportionally or by congressional district.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 11/15/2016 @ 4:31 pm32 aphrael: “Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors…”
IOW, the means of choosing electors is entirely up to the state’s legislature. The discretion is unlimited: a state could name permanent electors, electors could be drawn at random, each of the state’s Senators and Representatives could appoint one elector, the right to name an elector could be sold at auction, or electors could be chosen by athletic competition.
Rich Rostrom (d2c6fd) — 11/15/2016 @ 5:17 pm“The loan was originally for only four years, and they graciously extended it to eight. When it was returned at the end of Bush’s presidency, before 0bama came in, the British completely expected it. If 0bama had wanted to keep it they’d have had to be asked again — as they will have to be if Trump wants to borrow it again.”
Yes, that’s why Obama said, – I’ll paraphrase – there is only so much room to accommodate busts and I’m certain that many British people would understand why I chose to replace the bust of Churchill with one of Martin Luther King, Jr.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/15/2016 @ 5:30 pmThe Democrats would LOVE to get rid of the Electoral College, as it would five all the power to urban machines. All the campaigning would be done in urban areas, machines could “create” votes and they would COUNT, and if there’s a recount it’s very hard to cheat in fly-over country, but in the inner city? It’s amazing the places you can find lost ballots!
Kevin M (25bbee) — 11/15/2016 @ 6:17 pm*
Kevin M (25bbee) — 11/15/2016 @ 6:18 pmfive= giveI wonder if the elections clause could be used to require states to allocate their electors either proportionally or by congressional district.
Proportionally would not be too terrible as it would preserve most of the firewall features of the E.C. (cheating, recounts), as well as the “tiebreaker” edge to small states. But it would tend to get much more of the campaigning into urban areas.
The upside is that the results would only diverge in a VERY close election where those extra 100 “Senate” votes came into play and it would make voting in some states (e.g. CA, UT) more interesting.
I would be dead set against splitting it on congressional districts, though. Gerrymandering is bad enough as it is.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 11/15/2016 @ 6:25 pmIn this election, though, I think you’ll find that, proportionally, Trump still wins. And more than two candidates get electoral votes. CA would go something like 33-18-2-1 (all round up, which is a problem).
Does the state winner get the 2 base votes? They should, to keep the small-state bargain alive. In this election, that’s about 18 net votes for Trump.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 11/15/2016 @ 6:34 pmMilhouse – They most certainly took offense, which was later re-inforced and exacerbated by further Obama snubs/gaffes. GB had proactively offered to let the USA keep the bust and not return it. Obama ignored the offer.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/4623148/Barack-Obama-sends-bust-of-Winston-Churchill-on-its-way-back-to-Britain.html
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 11/15/2016 @ 6:54 pmHere’s a second link which did not take, for some reason:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/london-aghast-president-obama-gifts-prime-minister-brown-article-1.366667
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 11/15/2016 @ 6:55 pmHeh… Milhouse… sometimes right, more often wrong, but never in doubt.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/15/2016 @ 7:08 pmSo, using excel and channeling Sammy….
If straight proportionality, allowing fractional votes, and ignoring McMullin* and everyone else
Clinton: 258.67
Trump: 255.71
Johnson: 18.05
Stein: 5.57
Clinton leads, but it goes to the House where she loses.
If proportional, but state winner gets the 2 “senate” votes (as is done in NE and ME)
Clinton 254.29
Trump 265.03
Johnson: 14.21
Stein: 4.47
Trump leads, but it goes to the House, where he wins.
If you round, but the winner gets the 2 “senate” votes, the numbers depend on the actual rounding rules (to avoid losing electoral votes as the minor parties tend to round to 0), but Trump leads again.
Trump’s wins in 30 states vs 21 for Clinton gives him 18 extra electoral votes under the Great Compromise, and the election.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 11/15/2016 @ 7:15 pm*Utah’s vote percentage split ignoring McMullin. Doesn’t really matter.
Data from https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1K7U229n4eRz82GDmkQm-IhV_ypHVvo5sq_zR8qgUAtk/edit?usp=sharing
Kevin M (25bbee) — 11/15/2016 @ 7:20 pmThat’s actually not true. 18th-century England had no police and no public prosecutors, on purpose. They thought it was a bad idea to have the government control prosecution, because that would allow its friends to get away with anything, as we have seen so often recently (David Gregory, Hillary Clinton, Eric Holder, etc.). Putting prosecution in private hands meant that nobody was immune.
Milhouse (40ca7b) — 11/16/2016 @ 10:14 pmWhy should we care what 0bama said? Has he suddenly become the fountain of truth? The fact is that the original loan was for only four years, and had to be renewed for Bush’s second term. And the fact is that all oval office art is returned before the new president comes in. That comes not from 0bama but from the White House curator, who has no reason to lie.
Milhouse (40ca7b) — 11/16/2016 @ 10:17 pmNo, they did not. There is no evidence that they did, and plenty that they did not. Neither of the articles you linked offer any quotes supporting the contention that any offense was taken. The only quote from anyone in a position to know whether offense was taken or not was from the embassy spokesman, and it gave no hint of any offense. So both you and the writers of those articles are just making wild guesses and proclaiming them to be facts.
Milhouse (40ca7b) — 11/16/2016 @ 10:26 pmColonel, why don’t you shove it where the sun don’t shine. You are always offensive.
Milhouse (40ca7b) — 11/16/2016 @ 10:27 pm