Donald Trump: Barack Obama Is “A Very Good Man”
I’m old enough to remember when it was High Treason for a person — who will go unnamed, but who hadn’t witnessed a single day of Barack Obama’s presidency — to call Obama a “good man” who cared about his country. In a discussion with his eight-year-old daughter, to teach her that politics need not be about vilifying the people you oppose.
Now Donald Trump, having witnessed eight years of Obama’s unconstitutional power grabs, deception on a massive scale, doubling the debt, fostering racial grievances, and governing like a rank partisan, has said Barack Obama is a “very good man.”
And 90% of you are about to defend Trump for saying this.
I know, I know. Trump’s statement is different and better because he is lying. Is that it?
P.S. My 16-year-old daughter was not happy about Trump winning. I told her that I am happy on one level, and upset and a little worried on another. I told her that there are several silver linings to Trump’s election. One of which is that the Supreme Court will have good people on it. One of which is that the horrible Hillary Clinton will not be President. She’s developed more of a mind of her own, and she clearly would have preferred Hillary, but she understands many of the problems with Hillary. My son is cool with Trump getting elected, I think. He thinks Trump is bad but that Hillary is corrupt, as evidenced by her using stolen debate questions.
My children are not hysterical about the election, like some of the crazed lefties have been in recent days. I’m proud of that.
I can’t even
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 5:56 pmR.I.P. singer Leonard Cohen, a very good man
Icy (091d47) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:02 pmAll grownups are big to a child. Although it shows a surprising self-aware honesty in Donald Trump, it is truly a fact that Barack Obama is a good man when compared to Donald Trump.
nk (dbc370) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:02 pmPatterico, in the real world, we have to bite our tongues and say polite things about our enemies in order to get through the day.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:04 pmTrump needs some cooperation from Team Barack during the next couple months for the transition.
Cruz supporter, you had to be reading this blog in 2008, I think — and the blogs critical of this blog — to fully appreciate my reaction to this.
Maybe someone who was around then can explain it to you.
I’m too busy shaking my head in amazement. Not so much at the fact that Trump said this, but at the contrast between the reaction to my statement in 2008 and the defenses of Trump we’re about to see in this thread.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:08 pmyet you decided christine o’donnell was a mistress of darkness, well only for about 50 threads, was there ever an apology here,
narciso (d1f714) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:11 pmbetter than calling him ahab I think,
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/305377-erick-erickson-eats-crow-on-trump
narciso (d1f714) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:15 pmShe was a very good woman.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:21 pmI never expected people to change the subject! That is truly shocking.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:21 pmCute as a bug, that Christine.
Icy (81d2e3) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:24 pmThere’s a link on Drudge to Rush’s take on the “let’s get along” movement. His basic point is that by any measure, the Democrat Party is no longer relevant. Ignore the bought and paid for riots in Chicago, Seattle, etc., and as long as you weren’t put in the hospital by one of these lefty First Amendment exercises, they are of no significance. And yet the same gang of losers (aka RINOs and the LHMFMSM) are urging the incoming administration, and Republicans in general, to grant power and authority to these losers in a spirit of bipartisan unity, despite the rejection by the majority of the American people of virtually all the policies these fools invested their political careers in.
All we can do is hope that Trump has the good sense to see thru Obama, who is said to be clean shaven and well spoken. Mark Steyn commented that Trump has an instinct for his opponent’s weaknesses, witness Jeb Bush and Trump’s “low energy”. Obama has so many weaknesses that it might be difficult to pick just one. We shall see.
BobStewartatHome (b2bab4) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:24 pmAfter Rubio dropped out, Trump said nice things in his direction. Same thing with Cruz. Trump is in a winning over his adversaries mode.
I have no problem with Patterico shading the truth to his daughter. Wouldn’t even occur to me to worry about it. It’s the kind of white lie that most parents tell their children.
I did have a problem with McCain saying it when he was running against Obama. We don’t need someone who won’t fight while the fight is in progress. McCain proved the stupidity of his strategy with his loss.
Anon Y. Mous (9e4c83) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:24 pmWell, Obama probably said some nice thing about Trump (“that dead weasel really does a good job hiding how fat your head is”) so Trump thinks of him as a good man. It’s just that simple: the very idea of good and bad are based on what you last said about Trump in a Trump-centric universe.
Jerryskids (16a4d5) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:25 pmBeing nice to your allies and mean to your adversaries… What a strange tactic! Never in the history of our republic have we had a political leader act that way.
Anon Y. Mous (9e4c83) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:28 pmdo you concurr,
http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/10/wendy-davis-trump-won-because-of-an-under-educated-electorate-audio/
narciso (d1f714) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:28 pmIf this Scientific American piece is correct about Ebell leading the EPA transition team, then Trump was good enough to start swatting Warmunists.
Rick Ballard (bca473) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:32 pmObama is a good man in his personal life. He is a bad President. He would have been a very good man if he had admitted that he was not fit to be President and let someone else do the job.
As for the other thing …. It’s your scab, Patterico. If you want to scratch it, go right ahead.
nk (dbc370) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:32 pmNo Patterico, Trump’s statement is different because that’s how a Republic has a peaceful transition of power. We do that to reassure ourselves we are not going to Muammar Gaddafi anybody. It’s a lie. Just like Santa is a lie. There will be more important things to b!tch about.
Rev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:33 pmThere’s a parallel to be made between Trump’s graciousness towards Obama and his behavior towards Cruz leading up to and following him clinching the nomination, but meh.
Sean (1d5074) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:34 pmWho can say they know the President? Where he went to school, where he was born.
papertiger (c8116c) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:34 pmTHe most you can say is you know what’s important to his ghost writer.
We probably have a good grip on what makes the dude on his teleprompter tick.
Yeah, you’re missing the point. You clearly were not around to see how I was treated in 2008 (and 2009, and 2010, and 2011, and 2012, and 2013, and 2014, and 2015, and 2016) for saying this once to my daughter.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:37 pmFrom the post:”I know, I know. Trump’s statement is different and better because he is lying. Is that it?”
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:37 pmIt’s just kind of astounding to me.
I’m not trying to pick at a Jeff Goldstein scab, to be clear. Yeah, he called me out on it loudly, but he was not the only one, and I think he and I get along pretty well these days, and I’m not looking to undermine that. But he’s not a Trumper, and he won’t defend Trump on this anyway. But I have had people harassing me in comments here for literally eight years about it. And those very same people will defend Trump. Mr. Pink, or Mr. Black, or whatever the fuck your name is, how do you feel about this? And the answer will be like Hoagie’s. Hey, it’s cool because he’s lying.
Probably you have to have been the one who had this stuff levelled at him directly for eight years to understand it.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:41 pmOh, good grief.
The last time someone was jumping all over someone over saying Obama was a good man,
I told the harasser that it was getting old and we weren’t interested in hearing it anymore.
If the worst thing that Trump does is feign politeness after a meeting…
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:42 pmWell…
I’ll tell you what made an impression on me. At the celebration after the “Bob the Builder” campaign, Mrs. Obama appeared for the first time to be introduced to the Republic dressed as a poisonous spider.
https://ericreports.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/black-widow-dress.jpg
What does it mean besides a bit of maybe even Mrs. Obama has some doubts about the stranger sleeping in the bed next to her.
papertiger (c8116c) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:43 pmIt reminds me of when Bush said about Putin: “I looked in his eyes and saw his soul.”
AZ Bob (f7a491) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:44 pmYes, there was some obnoxious person who kept bringing it up decades after the initial disagreement happened
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:45 pm(Which is hard to do since it was only 8 years ago).
And I distinctly remember telling the person we were sick of hearing it.
@Patterico
My comment at 12 was directed at you. My comment at 14 was in response to the guy making comment 13:
Anon Y. Mous (9e4c83) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:45 pmAnd I appreciate that. But you have witnessed these comments pop up here enough that you felt it was getting old, no?
What amazes me is that the VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO SCREAMED AT ME ABOUT THIS (not Jeff Goldstein, again, but plenty of others) will defend Trump on this, or ignore it.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:45 pmI’ve always been on your side on this, because I tell my daughter the exact same thing. I tell her that when I call him SCOAMF and JEF (and I do tell her what the acronyms stand for) I’m talking about him as President and not as a person.
nk (dbc370) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:47 pmFrom narciso’s 6:28pm link to Wendy Davis, her words to explain yesterday’s election:
Good grief!!!! Who controls the education colleges and public education in general? Who controls the unions that speak for all teachers and administrators? Who spends five figures on each year of school for every public school failure?
It’s certainly no one with “right wing” tendencies.
My “right wing” solution to the public education problem would be to enable charter schools to compete for enrollment in every school district in every state. I would abolish all requirements for education certificates, and replace them with demonstrated competency in the subject matter, with standardized tests available to short cut the process to allow retired engineers, mathematicians, and scientists to teach these subjects, ditto languages, English literature, world history, and civics. I would abolish any class that had the slightest stench of “social justice”. And gym class would be more than walking around the gym for 50 minutes at a rate that guaranteed no one would break a sweat. Showers would not be optional following one of my gym classes, but I would ensure that no perverts were allowed into either the boys’ or the girls’ locker rooms.
In actual fact, the kids who escape the failed public education system have parents who reject the very system that sponsors demagogues like Wendy Davis. And these parents all vote Republican. All 5% of them.
BobStewartatHome (b2bab4) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:56 pmwell you know my feelings about staypuft, but the rest are pure gravy,
http://www.bet.com/news/national/2016/11/10/what-trump-s-cabinet-could-look-like.html
narciso (d1f714) — 11/10/2016 @ 6:58 pm— champ, August 2016
— May, May 2016
— Rodney King’s Spirit, February 2016
— Mark, December 2015
— Mark, December 2015
I’m skipping a bunch of other comments from Mark. And I never even GOT to Mr. Pink.
In 2009 and 2010 I’d get this sort of thing every other day, not every few weeks or months. Sometimes several times a day. Some people here remember this.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:00 pmPatterico, no, I wasn’t reading the blog back in 2008.
I personally happen to think Barack is not only the worst President of all time, but also a pretty nasty guy.
But I see how Trump is trying to grease the wheels a little bit as he enters the transitional period.
Trumps speaks more like a cab driver in an old film noir than he does like a statesman.
Things (or people) he wants to affirm are “great,” “wonderful,” “terrific,” etc.
And he repeats it two or three times.
Things (or people) he wants to disparage are “nasty,” “terrible,” “very bad,” or “not nice.” And he repeats the adjective two or three times.
That’s his rhythm of speech.
I don’t believe he thinks Barack’s a “very good” man.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:03 pmBarack has trashed him mightily in recent months.
But I suspect Trump said it because he’s trying to be a polite statesman during this transitional period.
P.S. My 16-year-old daughter was not happy about Trump winning. I told her that I am happy on one level, and upset and a little worried on another. I told her that there are several silver linings to Trump’s election. One of which is that the Supreme Court will have good people on it. One of which is that the horrible Hillary Clinton will not be President. She’s developed more of a mind of her own, and she clearly would have preferred Hillary, but she understands many of the problems with Hillary. My son is cool with Trump getting elected, I think. He thinks Trump is bad but that Hillary is corrupt, as evidenced by her using stolen debate questions.
My children are not hysterical about the election, like some of the crazed lefties have been in recent days. I’m proud of that.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:05 pmFrom the post: “I know, I know. Trump’s statement is different and better because he is lying. Is that it?”
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:06 pmYes,
It was past ridiculous….
Concerning this and the Davis quote,
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:07 pmI’ll just add:
AAARRGGGHHH!
Bob,
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:11 pmThey will even wreck charters when they can…
https://www.firstthings.com/article/2016/12/transgender-conformity
Another explanation for Trump’s behavior: The secret service agents in the White House have been vetted by Obama, and Trump’s were probably given the afternoon off. We know what Obama has done to the DoD. Caution would be advised under these circumstances.
BobStewartatHome (b2bab4) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:11 pmnk likes lefties, from FDR to Obama. It’s a Greek thing, this love of demagogues. If Pericles had lived, all of history would be different.
BobStewartatHome (b2bab4) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:14 pmThis is hilarious and sad at the same time, and so are the predictable responses.
I’m also starting to worry how people raise their children these days. Every parent should be able to tell young children that the President is a good man without getting attacked as a hypocrite. If honesty is all that matters, then there isn’t a decent parent who could call Trump a good man.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:15 pmYeah, I don’t like when people visit a blog just to repeatedly condemn their host. Like the disqus folk do to Ed Driscoll, and back then the people who did it to you. It’s ridiculous! Maybe they think they are being clever or witty? I don’t know.
Take the exit option if you don’t like the company!
Patricia (5fc097) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:16 pmDoc, sad to say, but a fraction of charter schools should fail, every year. And they should be replaced, every year. The key is to get the kids into a functional school as soon as possible. As it is now, the kids are thrown away, forced to stay in failed schools from K to 12. I’ve been there, and it is truly sad.
BobStewartatHome (b2bab4) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:18 pmThen how come I don’t like Trump?
nk (dbc370) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:18 pmyes, but this is deliberate malware put into the system, robin’s blog has the gory details,
narciso (d1f714) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:19 pmBTW, Pericles was “legacy” aristocrat — his father was the equivalent of Eisenhower militarily and politically.
nk (dbc370) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:22 pmNarciso, BET?
urbanleftbehind (efac08) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:23 pmwhen you here, the stark lamentations of the adversaries, ken blackwell’s part on the transition team, will bring keefum’s to new levels of paroxyms,
narciso (d1f714) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:24 pmFTFY.
For elementary school kids, its fine to say everything is rosy, a wonderland of candy and unicorns, with tooth fairies to help them deal with some of life’s little pains. But once a kid is in high school, he or she needs to understand that humans come in all flavors, and someone’s position, or the esteem that others bestow on them, doesn’t entitle them to respect. I can think of only one person whom I regard as eminently worthy, and that is Winston Churchill, and I know enough about him to understand that this is a net value result, you have to look at the good and the bad.
Blind obedience based on position is a military concept, and fragging was invented to correct its misapplication.
BobStewartatHome (b2bab4) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:26 pmI was making the wider point about statesman and scoundrels, now thucydides, kagan pere, apprised me, was as much a hack as wesley clark, in painting over the cause of the pelopenessian war,
narciso (d1f714) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:27 pmTrump a demagogue? He hasn’t the faintest idea of what he’s going to say from one utterance to the next. He has empathy, and he can read the audience, but I doubt he could convince anyone to do anything. He is the spokesman for the “silent majority”. His only concern is that he is at the front of the pack, even if he has no idea where the pack is going.
Pericles directed the pack along the lines he thought were best for Athens. And he was right. The next gang didn’t do so well.
BobStewartatHome (b2bab4) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:32 pmAnother window into the cypher that is Barack came from the magazine rack.
TimeLife books does glossy high priced sit on the coffee table bios of famous people.
One day I saw the Obama bio. It has wedding pics but no Rev Wright. It had extended family pics but nothing from his Mother’s side of the family. No grandma that at the time, in televised speeches, Obama was implying to be an embarrassing racist.
No pictures or story of a life outside of or before politics.
I actually felt sorry for the guy thinking on the huge chunks of his life he had disavowed for political expediency.
papertiger (c8116c) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:33 pmYes, Bob,
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:34 pmI know first hand that some charters are more rackets than schools.
But yes, they can fail, rather than be continued no matter how bad.
G night
Now Donald Trump, having witnessed eight years of Obama’s unconstitutional power grabs, deception on a massive scale, doubling the debt, fostering racial grievances, and governing like a rank partisan, has said Barack Obama is a “very good man.”
The victor will never be asked if he told the truth. – Adolf Hitler
“Hitler… there was a painter! He could paint an entire apartment in ONE afternoon! TWO coats!” – Franz Liebkind [Kenneth Mars] ‘The Producers’ 1967
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:34 pmTeachers in certain charter school networks are unionized in CPS.
http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2016/10/17/strike-deadline-looms-uno-charter-school-network-teachers-union
urbanleftbehind (efac08) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:36 pmI meant “leftie”. You said “nk likes lefties”. 😉
Just kidding. Even the wicked serve God’s purpose, if I’m paraphrasing that correctly.
nk (dbc370) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:37 pmI’d like to take a moment to remind everyone that thanks to Obama and the Supreme Court, the door is opened for Congress to pass a law fining – err, taxing – you for not buying Trump brand products.
John S. (30267c) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:41 pmwell I give him credit for admitting he was wrong,
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/president-trump-how-america-got-it-so-wrong-w449783
even though the category error, he has to peddle to the liv crowd, to keep himself in good standind,
narciso (d1f714) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:42 pmDoc, I was just trying to dispel the notion that Charter Schools were utopia. I hope I didn’t come across a patronizing. Too often we think we can eliminate all of life’s difficulties. We had to pull our oldest son out of a school between 7th and 8th grade due what we regarded as to a lack of discipline in their older students. When we went back to the school to play them in basketball in 8th grade, the picture and wording for the previous year’s 7th grade team had been changed … eliminating one of their Captains … our son. Sort of like the Soviet Union. This confirmed our decision.
BobStewartatHome (b2bab4) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:44 pmI intensely dislike the man, but . . . he persuaded tens of millions of people to vote for him for the highest political office in the land. So, I can’t agree with your comment as phrased.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:45 pmBut … but … aren’t all lefties demagogues?
My apologies, and thanks for the correction.
BobStewartatHome (b2bab4) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:48 pmI never felt I was being dishonest to my children, but in 2008 my main point to my young daughter was that bad policies don’t make you a bad person, and there is nothing to be scared of.
To my 14-year-old and 16-year-old kids, I talk more openly about the deficiencies of both candidates, mostly because they can understand them more. But I still seek to reassure them that it’s not the end of the world; that yes, Trump is an awful person, but we’ll live (probably) and there are actually very good things that could come out of it.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:49 pmMy response is that these people really wanted to vote for someone, and Trump was able to convince them that he was that someone.
I don’t think he talked them out of some sort of foolishness or inspired them to attempt something that they hadn’t considered before. He has an ability to read people, and he read a whole lot of them. He found their common denominator.
BobStewartatHome (b2bab4) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:52 pmI took it as flattery by Trump towards a guy who is a fellow narcissist.
It elevates Trump and blunts the press and Obamites.
This is a good read/Q&A with a pollster who picked Trump before he even ran. She also really taps into the anger people have towards the left and the GOP
steveg (5508fb) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:53 pmhttp://legalinsurrection.com/2016/11/research-guru-saw-trump-phenomenon-coming-before-anyone-else/
that’s a very insightful piece, re sorrock,
narciso (d1f714) — 11/10/2016 @ 7:58 pmIt’s a good opportunity to point out to American kids how young people responded to a *real* world calamity some 70 years ago. And it didnt involve laying down in the streets and crying for their pacifiers.
Dana (d17a61) — 11/10/2016 @ 8:00 pmFrom the post: “I know, I know. Trump’s statement is different and better because he is lying. Is that it?”
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 8:01 pmWhen Leonard Cohen died today I was reminded of and googled a long Rolling Stone article (which was excerpted from a book) about the song Hallelujah. So many people love and are intrigued the music of this song but don’t always agree on what Cohen was actually trying to say. The article highlighted both the religious and secular themes of Hallelujah. Then, as I re-read the piece the following paragraphs stood out. I kind of think there’s a message here for today–this week. Is it nicely creepy that his death brought these words of hope back to the fore at this particular moment of social and political stress?
“In the third verse of “Hallelujah,” Cohen’s deadpan wit returns, offering a rebuttal to the religious challenge presented in the previous lines. “You say I took the Name in vain,” he sings. “I don’t even know the name.” He then builds to the song’s central premise – the value, even the necessity of the song of praise in the face of confusion, doubt, or dread. “There’s a blaze of light in every word; / it doesn’t matter which you heard, / the holy, or the broken Hallelujah!”
“A blaze of light in every word.” That’s an amazing line. Every word, holy or broken – this is the fulcrum of the song as Cohen first wrote it. Like our forefathers, and the Bible heroes who formed the foundation of Western ethics and principles, we will be hurt, tested, and challenged. Love will break our hearts, music will offer solace that we may or may not hear, we will be faced with joy and with pain. But Cohen is telling us, without resorting to sentimentality, not to surrender to despair or nihilism. Critics may have fixated on the gloom and doom of his lyrics, but this is his offering of hope and perseverance in the face of a cruel world. Holy or broken, there is still hallelujah.”
I thought maybe Patterico and the other music lovers around here might enjoy this.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/exclusive-book-excerpt-leonard-cohen-writes-hallelujah-in-the-holy-or-the-broken-20121203
elissa (3e0e89) — 11/10/2016 @ 8:22 pmWhy would your daughter think Clinton is acceptable for anything but prison garb?
NJRob (a07d2e) — 11/10/2016 @ 8:23 pmI first heard, that song on the west wing of all places I think it was 2002, and was struck by the power of it, it’s true the profane, the evil is so commonplace, that the holy, the good is almost blocked out of our day to day existence, consider what young urban youth are saturated with, now thanks to steve jobs invention among other instances, this is why for a brief moment, perhaps early 2007, I thought obama might serve as a role model, I was gravely mistaken,
narciso (d1f714) — 11/10/2016 @ 8:30 pmObama is not a good man. He’s a racist, a narcissist, a leftist and someone who wants to subjugate the populace while he dines at our expense.
NJRob (a07d2e) — 11/10/2016 @ 8:33 pmYou’d have to ask her.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 8:35 pmI expect you to send a strongly worded email to Mr. Donald Trump, then, to express your indignance for saying otherwise.
Copy me on it and put the text in the comments to this thread.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 8:36 pmI always thought, someone had apprised trump, of the savage denunciation of the eurocrats,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/10/nigel-farage-to-be-donald-trumps-go-between-amid-claims-special/
narciso (d1f714) — 11/10/2016 @ 8:48 pmI remember it. You’ve been routinely raked over the coals for it, ignoring your larger point. As you said, supporting bad policies doesn’t make someone a bad person. Along those lines, I said recently that no matter what your position is, you will find thoughtful, sincere, intelligent people who take the opposite position. Calling them evil or stupid is both unproductive and unfair. (It’s what a whole lot of leftists do, which is why they keep getting surprised in elections.) The thing to do is change their minds: engage them in good faith, make sound logical arguments, and -gasp- be willing to concede a point if their argument is better.
If all of us adopted this way of thinking, not just on the internet but also in the real world, maybe conservatism would win more often.
Chuck Bartowski (211c17) — 11/10/2016 @ 8:58 pmwell more often than not, it works, they put their value judgements about the right, in news paper bylines, next to the risotto tray, in textbooks, movies, television, videogames, (an earlier iteration of biosphere
narciso (d1f714) — 11/10/2016 @ 9:02 pmwas about the perfidy of the tea party) one needs incredible discipline to avoid their conclusions,
#68 elissa, the late Jeff Buckley only recorded one full album prior to his tragic drowning, but his rendition of Cohen’s Hallelujah is amazing.
Buckley probably had the greatest vocal range of anyone in rock history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8AWFf7EAc4
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 11/10/2016 @ 9:12 pmmaybe that was the version I heard, in retrospect,
narciso (d1f714) — 11/10/2016 @ 9:12 pmI’ll say it: in his personal and private capacity, Barack Obama appears to me to be a good man. I work with, and am related to, lots of good people who believe more or less what he does about how the country ought to work. I believe they are wrong but I credit them for good intentions.
Does Barack Obama have flaws? Boy, does he! So do you, and so do I.
Use every man after his desert, and who should ’scape whipping?
Bill Clinton in his personal and private capacity appears to me a very bad man, and Hillary Clinton a bad woman. Donald Trump also appears to me to a bad man, in his personal and private capacity. Do these three have their good points? Sure they do, and so do you, and so I, and so did Hitler.
Gabriel Hanna (c791b9) — 11/10/2016 @ 9:38 pmNo problem. What’s his email address?
Guessing you’ve forgotten I’m one of those pragmatic conservatives like the guy I supported Senator Cruz.
NJRob (a07d2e) — 11/10/2016 @ 10:03 pmTrump is prone to hyperbole and by his standards, “very good man” is a snoozer. The warm fuzziness probably wore of when Josh Earnest reiterated that despite the cordial visit, Obama still thinks Trump is unfit to be President.
steveg (5508fb) — 11/10/2016 @ 10:27 pmComing from rank amateur Obama, that has to sting
Jen Psaki looked like she was seeing the Ghost Of Ulysses Grant. Valerie Jarrett looked like she ate a bad kumquat, and Susan Rice looked like she was guilty of something
steveg (5508fb) — 11/10/2016 @ 10:30 pm@steveg: They’re having a hard time dealing with their massive rejection in favor of Trump. Picture how an attractive, fit ex-wife feels on finding her former husband has taken up with someone older, less pretty, and overweight.
She thinks he’s crazy, but it’s obvious to everyone else that she was the problem.
Gabriel Hanna (c791b9) — 11/10/2016 @ 10:42 pmCan we make her an heiress like Theresa Heinz
steveg (5508fb) — 11/10/2016 @ 11:14 pmPatriots will show up.
steveg (5508fb) — 11/10/2016 @ 11:18 pmBen Sasse hated Trump, probably still does, but if asked he will do his all on health care reform.
I’m OK with Never Trump until it hurts the country in order to snub Trump
Write it in a comment here and tweet him the link.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/10/2016 @ 11:21 pmFrom that earlier thread:
The lyrics may have changed but the song remains the same. Who knows what Donald Trump stands for? We all know he stands for Donald Trump but beyond that anything else is just baseless speculation. He’s been very open about the fact that he likes being unpredictable and he lives to make deals. Great deals, by which he means great for Donald Trump. He just closed on the greatest deal of his life – we gave him the White House in return for some vague promise he’d do great things and now we’ve got no leverage to make him keep his end of the bargain. That makes him a winner in his book and I’m a little concerned that – as a matter of principle – keeping a promise you don’t have to is a chump move in that book. Trump’s no chump.
Jerryskids (16a4d5) — 11/11/2016 @ 2:38 amBob-
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/11/2016 @ 4:54 amNo apology necessary,
My response was meant to be commiserating with you, in solidarity,
Sorry that wasn’t more clear.
I’m not sure we are talking about the same Barack Obama…
Acolyte of a man who revered Lucifer,
Political career birthed in the home of a would-be murderer of millions,
Initially elected to state legislature by betraying a would be colleague,
Rarely took a position on anything while there except to make sure inconvenient babies were made sure to be dead
Elected to U.S. senator through essentially blackmail and character assassination,
Two faced in all of his dealings with the public,
Thought himself to be the savior of the nation and the world…
He may well think of himself as good and doing good things,
So have a lot of evil people
Insert Godwin’s Law with reference to Stalin about monsters being living fathers.
Yes, Jesus died for him, too.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/11/2016 @ 5:06 amloving
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/11/2016 @ 5:07 amNo he did not.
Rev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 11/11/2016 @ 6:31 amNo he did not.
There seems to be a theme developing.
Rev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 11/11/2016 @ 6:36 amHitler did kill Hitler, Hoagie. Credit where credit is due.
nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2016 @ 6:38 amAh hell. If Trump had said I stand by what I said on the trail, you’d bash him for rubbing it in and not being concilatory and “see, this is who you guys elected.”
Trump steps up and acts a bit statesman, and you bash him for lying.
Second, why did Obama and spouse not take a customary couple pic with Trump & spouse?
Steve_in_SoCal (58e1f9) — 11/11/2016 @ 6:40 amYeah, Gabriel is a Norbert.
Gabriel Hanna the commenter.
nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2016 @ 6:41 amWell,
Hoagie
I think this is one of those things that theologians like to split hairs over,
to a degree that goes beyond what we clearly understand this side of eternity.
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
And Jesus Christ came to save sinners.
Some indeed will not be saved, because however it works in dimensions that I don’t fully understand,
God is sovereign and yet people have real responsibility for their own choices,
including the choice to flee from God.
I think the death of Jesus is a real offer for the forgiveness of everyone,
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/11/2016 @ 6:48 amNot an offer for only some,
But many will demand to pay their own tab,
Even if they can’t.
I always agreed that it was right to tell your young daughter Obama was a good man, and I think parents of young children should say that about Trump, too. You talked to your daughter about politics to help her learn, but you also needed to reassure her that her world would be fine even if Obama were President. Telling her Obama was a good man was reassuring, and that is what parents with young children should do. She didn’t need to worry about the nuances of the political world at that age.
I also agree that you can talk more candidly about politics and politicians with teenagers, primarily because they are older and can understand that people and policies aren’t all good or all bad. Teenagers worry about their world being impacted by world events, too, but they should start learning to handle their concerns and emotions better than young children. Serious discussions about politics and world affairs is a way to start learning that.
IMO when you are more candid with your teenagers about people and issues, you are being more honest. You don’t have to be as careful with your words because you aren’t as worried that they will misunderstand and get upset in a way that is hard to fix. You can talk to them more candidly and address their concerns in more detail. But I agree you don’t intend to be dishonest. Perhaps I should have said less candid, instead of dishonest.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/11/2016 @ 7:32 am@hoagie, nk: If you refuse to see evil people as human beings with good in them, you will be less likely to recognize evil when you are doing it. The line between good and evil runs through every human heart.
God-fearing men, good to their families, kind to animals, somehow found it in them to commit atrocities in living memory. That includes Americans of the Greatest Generation, who committed thousands of rapes in France, against the people they were there to help. These are not aliens or demons who dropped from the sky, they are humans doing what for most of history humans have always done and in many places are still doing.
Refusing to see this puts your soul in peril. Those people are cartoon villains in movies now, but in real life they were people little different from you and me. It is very important that we all see this. The reason these horrible things happen again and again is that we don’t think that normal do such things. They do, they always have, and when circumstances are right they always will.
A person who truly had nothing good about them would never get anyone to go along with what he was doing. One person alone can do very little for good or evil. It’s the good in people that enables them to do enormous evil.
Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 11/11/2016 @ 7:57 amTrump will never do away with Obama’s biggest accomplishment: Riots.
AZ Bob (f7a491) — 11/11/2016 @ 7:59 amI’ve got my own problems, Gabriel. I shave twice and I still missed a spot on my chin.
nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2016 @ 8:19 am*shaved*
nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2016 @ 8:20 amI can shave twice and no one would see what I missed…
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/11/2016 @ 8:23 amWhen you said it back in 2008, I responded by saying “Whoa, pilgrim. You’re riding too fast.” There was no point saying things that aren’t true. I knew back then Obama was a nasty piece of work, but I also knew it wasn’t obvious to everyone else he wouldn’t have been elected Preezy. Still, calling him a good man in 2008 was going way beyond what the available evidence could support.
It wasn’t true then, it’s completely obvious to the entire world it’s not true now.
I’ve never defended a word that came out of Trump’s mouth. The only difference from where I sit is this. I can gleefully see DJT impeached and live with President Pence but, Pat, I’m afraid I’m stuck with you.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/11/2016 @ 8:31 amIf nobody’s going to put up a Veteran’s Day post, I will:
We remember you, vets, and we thank you for your service and sacrifice.
Chicago’s public schools are closed, but at my daughter’s school district (not in Chicago) the schools are open and holding Veteran’s Day ceremonies.
nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2016 @ 8:42 amGood men don’t push for the murder of millions of unborn babies. Your “but Hitler loved kittens” defense of our lazy, dimwitted, corrupt lame duck President doesn’t work. And if it’s the sex stuff that bothers you, Obama cheated on Michelle with both women and boys. Good father? Seems both his daughters are drug-abusing spoiled brats, unlike Trump’s kids.
Yeah, Trump said “pussy” yadda yadda yadda and a bunch of chicks suddenly had Recovered Memory Syndrome. Hope appointing lyin’ Ted Cruz to the Supremes changes your mind (how are Elena and Sonya working for you?)
Guess it depends on what your definition of “good” is.
ProLifer (ff7c80) — 11/11/2016 @ 8:45 amSo, ProLifer, you gonna tweet that to Trump? ‘Cause, in case you haven’t heard, or read this post, Trump said Obama is a “very good man” just yesterday.
nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2016 @ 8:48 amI also recall not piling on because, what am I, your mother-in-law? We just don’t have the kind of relationship where I throw back into your face something you said years ago.
I’m not going to start piling on now. But as a general tactical consideration, can we stop conceding the good heartedness and fine intentions of our enemies. Make no mistake. They are our enemies.
Because what it leads to is this. You walk into a community meeting in a majority black community. And after the Democrats finish telling the assembled crowd that the Republicans want to bring back Jim Crow laws, the lynching tree, put y’all back in chains…
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/vp-biden-says-republicans-are-going-to-put-yall-back-in-chains/
…then Republicans and Democrats unite and agree the Democrats have their heart in the right place and mean well.
Are we really this stupid? Who do you think minority voters are going to vote for? The people who 50% get away with calling racist #$$holes or the people that 100%, including the racist #$$holes now, admit are nice generous folk?
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/11/2016 @ 8:51 amnk — I don’t define “good” by what someone says, but by what they do. I didn’t think Ted Cruz was lyin’ either.
ProLifer (ea6c4f) — 11/11/2016 @ 9:02 amnk @104, I shoot my mouth off way too much about having served. In my defense I have to say I shoot my mouth off because current events are constantly touching on what I used to do when I was in the Navy. Intel, in particular intel support to counter terrrorism and force protection. If operating and maintaining the P100 fire fighting/dewatering pump was in the headlines and I had something relevant to say I’d bring it up. Unfortunately it’s AQ and IS. And we have complete idiots in charge spewing the most complete garbage I’ve ever heard.
And I am compelled to stand up and call b***shit, and mention I used to do this for a living so it’s right in my wheelhouse.
It would have been unseemly for me to compound the sin by calling attention to Veteran’s Day.
But not only wasn’t I the only guy who ever served, I was in the rear with the gear while so many others did the heavy lifting. There I was, drinking coffee in my well-heated/air-conditioned office while somebody else did the bleeding. Believe it or not, it was frustrating. It still eats at me. I’m not Rambo but I could have done more than I did. Despite the fact that Navy stands for Never Again Volunteer Yourself after I was recalled to active duty following in a nice, comfortable staff job in Japan I volunteered myself so often the COS ordered me to cut that s*** out. I was Never Again to Volunteer Myself because if the command let me go they could never again justify another request for reserve augmentation. Big Navy would have said, “Yeah, you need reservists so badly you let the last guy go.”
I call these “my brushes with greatness.” The several times I got pretty close to almost doing something. Well, I have the reserve O-4 pension waiting for me, and my highest award was a Navy Comm, and a nice thank you note from the Deputy Director of the CIA for the briefing I gave him on the “current situation” in the poorly-named Pacific. That and five bucks will get you cup of coffee at Starbucks.
I will be holding quiet, dignified
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/11/2016 @ 9:51 amI will be holding quiet, dignified services at Casa de Steve57 over the weekend in tribute to greater men than I, living and dead.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/11/2016 @ 9:54 amHeh! Trump, Fifth Avenue, gun, person shot ….
nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2016 @ 10:14 amWhat do I think about it? I couldn’t care less. Quite literally, I did not give one thought to this. “Man says something civil”. Hold the presses. Look how low you have sunk. Trump has proven himself to be a master strategist and is playing the game about 20 levels above your head. Nothing you think about him is real nor has any basis in fact as you are powered not by logic or evidence but by spite. Now that he has won a crushing victory (which you tried to prevent, lets not forget) you want him to fail as President so you can shout “Aha! I told you so”. You are the irrelevant fringe now. No one cares that you are spitting out your venom at a man who did everything you said was impossible. I only visit to enjoy the pleasure of reading the last 50 losers in the club console each other about how they were really right all along, it’s the 60 million other Americans who are mistaken.
Mr Black (7c41e5) — 11/11/2016 @ 3:05 pmWhat is it with this Mr. Black punk? Get a life, dog turd!
nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2016 @ 3:24 pmI don’t care either. Last week Obama was calling Trump all sorts of things and saying that he had to stop whining. Today they’re making nice and I see a piece that says Obama is being classy and Newt is a neanderthal; and that Trump is a lying scumbag for saying Obama is a very good man. Clearly both of them are saying polite lies to get through this. We’ve all done that at some point. As long as Trump keeps his promise to name conservative judges to the Supreme Court, he can say Nancy Pelosi is a good woman, or that Eric Holder was a great AG, or that the moon is made of green cheese, and I still won’t care.
Rochf (877dba) — 11/11/2016 @ 3:25 pmHow did I guess that Mr. Black would defend Trump for saying something far less defensible than the thing Me. Black/Pink has hassled me about for years?
Nk nails it.
Patterico (8834d2) — 11/11/2016 @ 3:26 pmRochf, did you hassle me for saying the same thing Trump said, like hypocritical punk Mr. Black did? I don’t remember that.
Patterico (8834d2) — 11/11/2016 @ 3:28 pmso I guess he’ll be the haldeman:
http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/11/media/corey-lewandowski-resigns-cnn/index.html
narciso (d1f714) — 11/11/2016 @ 3:43 pmI am not this poster Mr Pink, I have always used this screen name, as a quick check of IP logs would tell you. So I assume you know damn well we have no connection and are just playing it up for the (diminishing) crowd.
Mr Black (7c41e5) — 11/11/2016 @ 7:16 pm