Patterico's Pontifications

10/4/2016

Open Thread: Vice Presidential Debate

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 5:12 pm



If you’re actually watching this thing, comment below.

Me? I’ll be at a movie.

Anything but this.

UPDATE 5:55 p.m.: The debate starts in 5 minutes. The GOP says Pence won.

That’s embarrassing. It makes you feel like a little they weren’t planning to give an honest opinion, all along.

162 Responses to “Open Thread: Vice Presidential Debate”

  1. which propaganda slut is doing the moderate?

    the last one was so vapid i was unrewarded for staying up so late

    unrewarded, I was

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  2. westworld is highly overrated despite having the imput of the person of interest crew,

    narciso (d1f714)

  3. penny dreadful i really liked on the netflix

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  4. it had it’s moments,

    http://www.newsbusters.org/journalists/elaine-quijano

    any more questions,

    narciso (d1f714)

  5. Me? I’ll be at a movie. Anything but this.

    “Something familiar, Something peculiar, Something for everyone: A comedy tonight!
    Something appealing, Something appalling, Something for everyone: A comedy tonight!

    Nothing with kings, nothing with crowns; Bring on the lovers, liars and clowns!
    Old situations, New complications, Nothing portentous or polite; Tragedy tomorrow,
    Comedy tonight!

    Something convulsive, Something repulsive, Something for everyone: A comedy tonight!
    Something aesthetic, Something frenetic, Something for everyone :A comedy tonight!

    Nothing with gods, nothing with fate; Weighty affairs will just have to wait!
    Nothing that’s formal, Nothing that’s normal, No recitations to recite;

    Open up the curtain: Comedy Tonight!

    Something erratic, Something dramatic, Something for everyone: A comedy tonight!
    Frenzy and frolic, Strictly symbolic, Something for everyone: A comedy tonight!
    Something familiar, Something peculiar, Something for everybody: Comedy tonight!
    Something that’s gaudy, Something that’s bawdy–Something for everybawdy!

    Comedy tonight!

    Nothing that’s grim. Nothing that’s Greek.
    She plays Medea later this week.

    Stunning surprises! Cunning disguises! Hundreds of actors out of sight!

    Pantaloons and tunics! Courtesans and eunuchs! Funerals and chases!
    Baritones and basses! Panderers! Philanderers! Cupidity! Timidity!

    Mistakes! Fakes! Rhymes! Crimes! Tumblers! Grumblers! Bumblers! Fumblers!

    No royal curse, no Trojan horse, And a happy ending, of course!

    Goodness and badness, Panic is madness–This time it all turns out all right!

    Tragedy tomorrow, Comedy tonight!!!!!!!!” ‘A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To the Forum’ – 1966

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  6. yeah i got your quijano right here

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  7. and I thought tom hardy as both of the kray brothers seemed gimmicky,

    narciso (d1f714)

  8. I’ve heard that Penny Dreadful had a drastic decline in quality towards the end of its last season.

    Kishnevi (7bc26d)

  9. UPDATE 5:55 p.m.: The debate starts in 5 minutes. The GOP says Pence won.

    That’s embarrassing. It makes you feel like a little they weren’t planning to give an honest opinion, all along.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  10. i’ve only gotten through season 3

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  11. yes, the dracula character was poorly written, and eva green as charming as she is, can only reach a certain level of raw crazy, before it loses something,

    narciso (d1f714)

  12. The debate is in Farmville Virginia.

    CBS News has prepared a panel of voters to intervkew after the debate in Cleveland. (Ohio used to be a swing state, buut now it’s not in the middle)

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  13. OK, the debate started 8 minutes ago. I’m not watching. Is anyone?

    BobStewartatHome (a52abe)

  14. Q–Mr. Kaine, what qualifies you for the job of president if tragedy strikes?

    A-I had some chocolate milk 50 years ago. I know Hillary Clinton will be great!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  15. It’s the Harvey Korman – Race Bannon Comedy Hour

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  16. Q about what qualifies them in temperament to take over in amoements; notice.

    Tim Kaine starts off by sayinbg 65 years ago a woman led a school walkout that led to Brwon v Board of Education. Says he is running with anotehr history making woman. Then he argues why he was picked, and his job will be to be aright habd man. Says he is afraid of Donald Trump.

    Mike Pnce answers he grew in a town like Farmville, father was an immigrant I think he says and then aswers the question.

    Next question to Tim Kaine’s Why do people distrust Hillary Clinton?

    Really focuses on civil rights. Segues pretty soon into attacking Donald Trump. Hispanics

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  17. Clem Kadiddlehopper, Korman played the straight man to Conway,

    narciso (d1f714)

  18. UPDATE 5:55 p.m.: The debate starts in 5 minutes. The GOP says Pence won.

    Kaine, try the decaf.

    “Kelly, you’re past-posting, aren’t you.”– ‘The Sting,’ 1973

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  19. Pence starts to talk about thigs deteriaating watching Syria hor by hour. Russia getting aggressive, Kaine interruts Trump likes Russia. Mdoderatir says get next.

    Then he taslks about oher things

    Pointing out Clinton foundation accepeted forign contributions.

    Pence wold do better with a different preidential candidate.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  20. @17. Clem was a mute; a mime.

    This guy’s a motor mouth. Pure Korman.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  21. Tim Kaine talk about Iraq. Pence is pretty good. But he would do better with a different prexiential canooddate. Kaine is more one note.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  22. Im sorry Pence brought up Iraq,

    Now talking about state budgets to answer question about federal budget.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  23. Pence has details.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  24. Considering both JR and Maudie are obviously sick in the head, one of these two could very well be president.

    Race Bannon looks and sounds calm and collected. Harvey Korman looks and sounds frenetic, like he had three too many cups of coffee.

    “Raisinettes!”– “Blazing Saddles” 1974

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  25. Kaine has slogans – Hillary: A “You’re Hired” president and Trump: “You;re Fired” president.

    Lists 5 “plans” Says two bad things about Trump. Want to abolish minimum wage and lower taxes, which he claims created the deepest reession. “Independent economists” says Hillary plan would grow economy and Trump reduce.

    Goes into income tax.

    trump’s staxes – firs makes a reply – but just basically that economy is bad.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  26. The debate starts in 5 minutes. The GOP says Pence won.

    What’s the point of watching it, if you know how it ends?

    nk (dbc370)

  27. Kaine is either nervous, missed his meds or has had wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too much coffee.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. Memo to Kaine.

    My Mother has retired on Social Security.
    She is living on $16,000/year.
    That’s poverty.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  29. Note to blog– 85 year old mother just yelled at the TV to Kaine: ‘Shut up!’ She earns a glass of wine for that.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  30. Thank youse for doing us a service, will check back in the morning.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  31. GOPe is desperate. Trump is dragging down all the underticket, and that clink-clink of big donor and big lobbyist money is not being heard in the coffers of the RNC, and might not be heard for four years.

    nk (dbc370)

  32. Why would a conservative party run over their own debater by releasing pre-prepared statements?

    Oh, right. Somebody left the Cruzcontrol is on.

    “Keep your foot hard on the pedal. Son, never mind them brakes. Let it all hang out ’cause we got a run to make.The boys are thirsty in Atlanta and there’s beer in Texarcana. And we’ll bring it back no matter what it takes.” – Smokey & The Bandit, 1977

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  33. So far the GOP doesn’t appear it jumped the gun… just prescient.

    Pence has won this.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  34. john logan initially captured the victorian ethos, but then he went grand guignol,

    narciso (d1f714)

  35. Kaine has crazy eyes and won’t STFU.

    Pinandpuller (e3b698)

  36. @35- There’s an old adage in television about novices being over-rehearsed before going on camera.

    Kaine has trumped himself.

    “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take this anymore!” Howard Beale [Peter Finch] ‘Network’ – 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  37. “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take this anymore!” Howard Beale [Peter Finch] ‘Network’ – 1976

    This has been Thump’s whole campaign, as I said a year ago.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  38. I actually meant to say “Trump”, but “Thump” will do.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  39. Canadians being bad at a ballgame. 2 to 2 in the eighth, O’s at Jays. Sounds like someone desrves a We want Mike cheer at the end.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  40. #35 Pinandpuller,

    Kaine has crazy ideas, too. (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  41. Mike Pence won the debate, except for his bonehead Cheney-esque neocon bullsh!t.

    But other than that, excellent.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  42. This election may be the only one in recent history where the vice presidential nominee matters. I would vote for Pence as President.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  43. Biggest loser: Ted Cruz.

    Pence is the new flag bearer.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  44. If you scored this debate like maybe a college debate might be scored, Tim Kaine woin it, because Mike Pence didn’t address a lot of his points. If you scored it by how it affects anybody’s opinion, Tim Pence won it overwhelmingly.

    Tim Kaine was swarmy, reciting obvious talking points all the time, and at least Mike Pence got the idea in that that’s what Kaine was doing.

    And Tim Pence sounded sincere.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  45. You could feel how sincere Tim Pence was about Syria, but he had nothing really to propose except a stronger military budget. I liked the neocon soudundinbg things.

    And on this – at one point Tim Kaine coted Ronald Reagan saying why nuclear proliferation was bad and you expected him to say that’s why it would be a bad idea for North Korea to get nuclear weapons or even Japan and South Korea – or say Saudi Arabia because of what it might become but he said Donald Trump. This must be a real strategy of the Clinton campaign. Tom Pence said that was beneath him.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  46. Joe Biden and Tim Kaine. (LOL)

    At least Joe Montana had STEVE YOUNG! as his back-up.
    Damn.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  47. sammeh you so miss the point, seriously,

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/watch-gov-pence-hits-back-clinton-foundation-email-scandal-moderator-ends-discussion-video/

    the korea deal that wendy sherman negotiated gave n korea time to test a bomb, the same way the iran deal has, this threatens south korea, japan and taiwan

    narciso (d1f714)

  48. In some places Mike Pence recited what is the Republican platform or something but he did it much less and had fewer talking points than Tim Kaine.

    I didn’t like what Pence said on Immigration and refugees. Criminal aliens are the crime problem? How big a problem? Does he not even know that most of that aliens were brought to the United states as children – but this is his platform.

    Pence cited Comey about not being able to vet – isn’t that the same weasel Comey who cleared and protected Hillary Clinton? Since when is anything he said reliable?

    And the 2 Syrian refugees who committed terror – they were people who used Syrian passports to travel part of the way. But you have to know details to know that that’s wrong.

    On most economic issues they both talked nonsense, but Pence had detailed nonsense and Kane had headlines. Pence was not really familiatr with the scandals. He didn’t know how to defend Donald Trump, for the most part and he didn’t know how to attack Hillary Clinton.

    I can’t believe that Pence recited this nonsense about Hillary Clinton releasing her emails. She supposedly destroyed all copies. She can’t release them without revealing massive perjury. Oh, she can “discover” them like the Rose Law Firm billing records, but she can’t openly decide to release them.

    Doesn’t Pence know this? He gets a B minus at best on Clinton.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  49. I don’t why you think tapper is some great resource,

    http://therightscoop.com/jake-tapper-says-mike-pence-takes-the-night-but/

    narciso (d1f714)

  50. @49- ‘Everything is jake.’– “The Sting,’ – 1973

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  51. Tim Pence tried something about the Clinton Foundation, but he really wasn’t solid on that. He did get in – finally – that the Foundation money was used to fly them around and – not stateds too clearly – let them give their entourage jobs .

    But he knew nothing about what they did bad in Haiti, for instance. He let Kaine get away with talking about good works, which probably amount to virtually nothing, and with the State Department supposedly having cleared Hillary Clinton from accusations of having acted corruptly.

    I wasn’t clear if the Korea question was supposed to be about North Korea getting ready to test a missile that coould go to the United States or actually planning to launch one with a bomb on board. That’s what we have Star Wars for. You can attack the launch site too.

    Nobody answered that. Tim Kaine missed an attack point – where Trump complained in he first debate about why North Korea was not included in the Iran deal and said Iran controlled North Korea (not just China but also Iran did!) Or maybe actually there’s a good answer to that. The idea might be that Iran is paying for or involved in North Korea’s atomic bomb program.

    Overall, Pence really was not drilled on the facts. Not that here was anyone to drill him, maybe.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  52. Mike Pence couldn’t even handle the Social Security issue – the point there is that privatization was supposed to get greater returns, and he didn’t mention that if they got economic growth that they were promising Social Security would NOT run out of money. Also Tin Kaine made the cut in Sociat Security sound worse than it was. Theoretically, you could see an abrupt 25% cut. I don’t think Congress would ever let that happen.

    Tim Kaine said some things I feel are not true, or irrelevant. He said Donald Trump’s son said they had business interests in Russia – he didn’t say how great a [porportion that was or even if any of his projects got off the ground. Nor why Donald Trump shuld are very much about that if he was presdident. Kaine was saying Trump made money from Russia and also that he owed money to Chinese banks – as if Chinese banks were most of his loans and as if they could call their loans.

    It was full of charges like that.

    They never did answer what to do about North Korea.

    A few times Kaine even included statements Tim Pence had made in his attacks.

    As Pence said there are fact checkers.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  53. she confuse yourself crossing the hall at home, sammeh, yes social security reform is about partially increasing revenue, I’m sure trump does as in azerbaijan, the kingdom, and the emirates,

    narciso (d1f714)

  54. Try number 53 again. I didn’t follow it.

    Tim Kaine said Donald Trump had endorsed in his book the same thing Mike Pence once proposed. The only problem with that is that the idea basically used two different prjections of economic growth – a low one for social security as it is, and ahigh one for what if the mney was invested in the stock market. The stck market wouldn’t go up in the long run if economic growth didn’t. And if economic growth did Social security would not bebe projected to run out of money. Tim Pence didn’t give the simplest defense here. All he said was they were not going to cut Social Security. He could lso have asked hiow is doing nothing going to help, and why should what he called privatization be bad.

    Well mainly that’s because it might convert Social Security to defined contribution instead of defined benefit, and some people could lose lots of money, but you could limit that, and anyway of course that was not a live proposal now.

    Kaine should be forced to explain why Pence’s old proposal was so terrible, because you can’t legtimately claim that it was.

    Q. Trump does what as in azerbaijan, the kingdom, and the emirates?

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  55. Sammy,

    You have such a high bar for Republicans to jump over.
    Pence just punked Kaine. It’s not for debate. He punked him.

    But you make excuses for Democrats so often, even going as far to suggest that they shouldn’t be blamed for not knowing x, y, or z.
    We’ve seen you make excuses for all the illary nonsense about servers and not knowing this security clearance requirement or being confused about THAT security clearance requirement — even though she SIGNED paperwork acknowledging knowledge about them.

    Yet here you are busting Pence for leaving a little bit on the table in what is a ‘live’ performance where he doesn’t have the beneift of consulting with a team of lawyers or consultants before he gives an answer, which is essentially all that illary’s done for the past year.
    We know why illary avoided press conferences for 10 months straight, though, don’t we?
    We’ve seen Mr HarvardTrashLawSchool grad Barack hem and haw and um and uh and well and some people say and blah blah blah yuck yuck yuck whenever he’s off a teleprompter.
    And Slow Joe Hairplugs Fake Tan Biden?
    You think he’s anywhere in the same galaxy as Mike Pence? (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  56. @48 Sammy

    At least 27% of US prison inmates are not US citizens.

    Pinandpuller (e3b698)

  57. seriously he’s like nathan thurm, martin short’s flack lawyer from sctv,

    narciso (d1f714)

  58. cnn really picks um, ailes did too for a while,

    https://twitter.com/sallykohn/status/783495768745340928?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    narciso (d1f714)

  59. Pence owned Kaine on facts and on comportment. Kaine succeeded in appealing to the know-nothing SWJ’s and women that DJT is daaaaaaangerous.

    Pence IDIOTICALLY swerved the end to abortion. He sealed the hopes of HRC’s campaign with females. What a gift.

    Hugh Hewitt rightly says MP destroyed Kaine and has given DJT a fantastic opportunity to reset the campaign with focused attacks on HRC as SoS and the need generally for change. Sure as shootin’, DJT spent the entire debate throwing bombs on Twitter.

    In short, Pence showed us all the path to a DJT victory, which of itself was a helluva accomplishment. It will all go for naught.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  60. take a chill pill ed, in part it was a combination of clem’s rabid chihuahua, and quijano’s unwillingness to reign him in, that was key,

    narciso (d1f714)

  61. so clearly someone had the lifeboat from timeless, and came back before the debate started,

    narciso (d1f714)

  62. What a joke of a debate.

    AZ Bob (d6a3a9)

  63. CNN labels 48% Pence to 42% Kaine a 6 point ‘narrow’ win… yet says Maudie has a ‘wide lead’ over Trump… 6 points.

    Go figure.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  64. CNN is a freakshow, I’ve compared it rupert pupkin, (king of new york,) because they’ll put anything on, for a lark, take sally kohn, don lemon, my paisan rick sanchez,

    narciso (d1f714)

  65. Who are the 42% who think freak eyed Timmy “won”?
    Is that 42% of the Kaine family? (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  66. There has always been a mistrust of Pence Fence by several e.g. Coulter, Kaus this might logically extend into the truer alt-right, hence no featherbeading of the online pills.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  67. …featherbeading of online polls

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  68. I was curious about Kaine’s comment about going to Jesuit school.

    From what purports to be the Jesuit oath:

    I do further promise and declare, that I will have no opinion or will of my own, or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver, but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the Militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ.

    Pinandpuller (e3b698)

  69. I think there was some because of indiana, and the gale storm he faced but he acquitted himself well since then,

    narciso (d1f714)

  70. I don’t know what gumbo, clem or even pope francis, is citing but it’s far afield from the christian point of view (lowercase)

    narciso (d1f714)

  71. 68. That applies to anyone who becomes a Jesuit – not someone who goes to a school run by them. The Jusuits the,selves probably don’t really act that way. Is this from the first Jesuits, before they werw abolished by the Pope?

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  72. pence voted for iraq war so he couldn’t start naming the 4500+ americans hillary clinton got killed in iraq with her war vote for the iraq war for her own personel gain so republicans couldn’t use it against slimy hillary when she ran for president in 2008.

    the dead (f308d2)

  73. @71 Sammy

    In a like fashion how the shahaddah applies to a Muslim not the guy who goes to a madrassa in Indonesia four years?

    I’m not sure it’s exact provenance but I thought it sounded like the oath someone working for the Clintons might take.

    Pinandpuller (e3b698)

  74. Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 10/4/2016 @ 8:40 pm

    You have such a high bar for Republicans to jump over.

    You’re dealing with professionals, and I like to see false attackers destroyed. I think it’s better to have high standards.

    Pence just punked Kaine. It’s not for debate. He punked him.

    I don’t disagree with that. Mike Pence clearly won the debate, because Tim Pence was so swarmy and rehearsed, and this was obvious over and over again, and Tim Pence even pointed it out a few times. He also seemed to deny things in an emotionally credible way. He punked him, maybe, but only by being himself.

    But he didn’t come to grips with a lot of things. Too much stuff was left hanging out there.

    One caveat about that is that there was not actually enough time to answer all that even if Pence had known exactly what to say, except maybe to find away to say – and there’s a lot else wrong. He tried, one time, “there you go again.”

    Yet here you are busting Pence for leaving a little bit on the table

    He left a lot on the table.

    Including, incredibly, the attack on his own Social Security reform proposal about 10 years back or more, which he surely knew well enough. The problem here was that he didn’t understand the basics Social Security accounting very well – I explained several different things he could have said. I also explained there was actually a flaw in the thinking when it was proposed. It wouldn’t have saved Social Security in any way, but it wouldn’t have made things worse, and it could have benefitted people, and the Democrats made it look like this would hurt people. Maybe it would hurt the federal budget.

    Now, this was not too important, but he would have looked really good had he been able to handle it. It seems to be one of those (maybe little used these days) Democratic Party talking points and it would have been a really good thing to demolish it, at least to give Republicans the confidence not to fear being attacked by Democrats. Answering that might really help some down ballot races. Somewhere that charge is probably also being made against a candidate for Cogress orthe U.s. senate.

    Also it would have helped to add that they weren’t proposing to do anything about that right now.

    in what is a ‘live’ performance where he doesn’t have the beneift of consulting with a team of lawyers or consultants before he gives an answer, which is essentially all that illary’s done for the past year.

    Hillary in a debate obviously can’t consult anyone, but she’s very rehearsed. She was so rehearsed in the last debate that she even responded to an attack that Donald Trump didn’t make!

    They anticipated Trump saying he hadn’t rehearsed and she did, so she said she prepared for the debate like she prepared for the presidency.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  75. I’m saying that Pence wasn’t really good enough.

    The only advantage for Pence is that Kaine was not credible at all. A lot of people will be going to the fact checkers, who themselves may not get half of it right.

    The worst thing Mike Pence let slip: Besides saying it was nonsense, he didn’t explain that he and Trump were not proposing to take citizenship away from 4 million people and deport them, and could not do that even if they wanted to. Now I don’t know, it may be in the Republican platform. It probably isn’t, quite that way.

    He also let slip an almost accusation that they could do something to make abortion illegal. One good thing Mike Pence did is he said Donald Trump was not a polished polician but he didn’t elaborate on that (that was in regard to Trump having said at one point, for a few hours, that women maybe ought to be punished for having an abortion.)

    Tim Kaine was always on the attack, and had rehearsed not only charges, but turning questions into attack opportunies without seeming to ignore the question. He also did not get hit with false charges, but only a few true ones, for which he had prepared answers or at least parries.

    It’s easier to defend against true charges than false ones, because when it’s true you know what the charge is going to be, and you can invent defenses. It’s easier to make false charges than true ones, because when someone is suddenly hit with a false charge they don’t know what to say.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  76. What did I miss?

    Patterico (bcf524)

  77. seriously sammeh, how do you drive, if you keep looking at mirages, clem’s questions weren’t meant to have answers.

    narciso (d1f714)

  78. A westworld replicant going bezerk,

    narciso (d1f714)

  79. what movie did you watch,

    narciso (d1f714)

  80. A screening. I think I’m not supposed to write about it until the movie comes out, so I won’t.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  81. But thanks for asking!

    Patterico (bcf524)

  82. Pence won the Trump poll. No spoiler there.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  83. The WaPo scores it a big win for Pence, a big loss for Kaine and the moderator.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/04/winners-and-losers-from-the-vice-presidential-debate/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_winnerslosers-11pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

    And they effing HATE Trump.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  84. Mike Pence seemed to me not to be that solidly grounded even on the issues. Yes, of course, Tim Kaine was just spewing a lot of lies. Some of Tim Pences responses just weren’t qute accurate. The $1,7 billion they gave to Iran was not ransom – it was to ensure Iran didn’t back out of the nuclear agreement.

    And Mike Pence called it a treaty!

    He was clearly very moved by what’s going on in Syria, but you wonder if he was off on his own over there, and hadn’t consulted Donald Trump. The level the crisis has reached is very new.

    Mike Pence came out in favor of “safe zones” inside Syria. The only safe zone there will ever be is outside of Syria. He had no proposal as to how to get people there over Russian opposition or if theer was Russian and Syrian betrayal. He talked about shooting down Syrian planes, but said nothing about Russian planes. Talking only about Syrian planes is just plain unrealistic.

    The only way to make this work is to declare Aleppo a safe zone and be prepared to knock out russian supplied Syrian air defenses and shoot down Russian planes and see ISIS maybe take advantage of that. And it won’t work perfectly. Some outside military force is going to have supply food and water and medicine and medical facilities, all of which have now been destroyed in the rebel controlled zone.

    Of course, Tim Kaine had nothing constructive to say on this. It was Mike Pence who brought up the issue.

    Even after it became a question, Tim Kaine evaded it. He did want to accuse Trump – and even Pence! – of liking Putin, and tried to say Trump’s business interests and hopes in Russia were responsible.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  85. Who is clem?

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  86. I think Kaine’s handlers thought he was going to win the debate. They didn’t ponder how this actually would look to people. On points, maybe, he sort of won.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  87. can you say, what kind of a film?

    it’s an untenable notion, sammeh, it risks a direct confrontation with the russians

    how did she say it ‘drill baby drill’ and she was ridiculed for it,

    https://www.adn.com/business-economy/energy/2016/10/04/caelus-claims-world-class-offshore-arctic-oil-discovery-that-could-among-alaskas-biggest/

    narciso (d1f714)

  88. Pinandpuller (e3b698) — 10/4/2016 @ 10:00 pm

    but I thought it sounded like the oath someone working for the Clintons might take. </blockquote. They probably don't do any rituals, unlike the Mafia or Chinese tongs.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  89. narciso (d1f714) — 10/4/2016 @ 10:34 pm

    it’s an untenable notion, sammeh, it risks a direct confrontation with the russians

    So did the Cuban missile crisis.

    The question is, who do you think will blink?

    If it’s an untenable notion, the only thing to do is evacuate Syria.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  90. Which clinton was on their knees in front of sammy? Or both?

    mg (31009b)

  91. The debate starts in 5 minutes. The GOP says Pence won.

    What’s the point of watching it, if you know how it ends?

    nk (dbc370) — 10/4/2016 @ 6:24 pm

    Remember that James Cameron made a butt-load of money and several Oscars making a movie about a ship sinking, and all of us knew how that ended, too.

    Bill H (971e5f)

  92. And Putin is turning everybody against Syrian refugees.

    The results, he can now kill Syrians with impunity.

    There will be no safe zone inside Syria. You can establish one outside of Syria. because Turkey is not afraid to shoot down Russian planes that go into Turkish airspace.

    It’s not a question of being willing, or not, if the situation called for it, to shoot down Russian planes.

    It’s a question of what are the GPS locations where you’re willing to do that.

    It’s that way in the Middle East and it’s that way in Europe.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  93. 90. They haven’t surrendered.

    Yet.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  94. 76. Patterico (bcf524) — 10/4/2016 @ 10:16 pm

    What did I miss?

    Tim Kaine making charge after charge, some very wild, and not getting answered on many of them…not realizing this would actually make him look bad.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  95. Who is clem?

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d) — 10/4/2016 @ 10:32 pm

    Seriously Sammy, you don’t know who Clem Kadiddlehopper was? One of Red Skelton’s characters? Try this for a start.

    Bill H (971e5f)

  96. @76- What did I miss?

    The rise of Mike Pence; the fall of Ted Cruz.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  97. I’m impressed at how much that debate made me dislike Tim Kaine, and how often the dynamic between the two of them made Kaine come off like a crazy person for truthfully reporting the things Trump has said.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  98. @96, postscript: “Inherit The Wind” 1960

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  99. Hey, funny thing. Here is a comment left on this blog in 2007. See if you can guess who wrote it.

    NN, as violent as the aftermath of deposing Hussein has been, that little country has had a stellar track record of disappointing the hysterical worst-case scenario spinners. That “bankruptcy” is chief among your concerns further evinces a really mean streak of the reductionist pragmatism I talked about above and suggests that your reasoning is an exercise in invoking dire “options to consider” that can rhetorically balance the disastrous consequences that are certain to transpire if we were to retreat.

    Again, more directly, do you think that America is better served if we are seen to mercurially abandon our stated commitments? Will this make it easier or harder to establish alliances in the future? Would Britain, Australia, El Salvador, Romania, Japan, South Korea, and all of our other parthers be justified in feeling betrayed by our inconstancy?

    You’ll never guess in a million years.

    Patterico (b7c0f1)

  100. 95. I know a little bit about Red Skeleton, but that’s it. I know he had a television show. I don’t think I watched it, more than maybe 15 minutes or so one time. I think I didn’t think it funny.

    narciso @77 (d1f714) — 10/4/2016 @ 10:17 pm

    clem’s questions weren’t meant to have answers

    They weren’t questions. They were statements, in what supposedly were answers to questions.

    The statements, or at least a sample of them, needed to be rebutted, denied or explained.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  101. 97. aphrael (3f0569) — 10/4/2016 @ 11:04 pm

    I’m impressed at how much that debate made me dislike Tim Kaine, and how often the dynamic between the two of them made Kaine come off like a crazy person for truthfully reporting the things Trump has said.

    I think about 3/4 of them were truthful, and you knew it or you thought so, because you heard or read the acusation before. He was distorting things.

    Trump may have called various women four names at one point or another, (Tim Kaine repeated his four insults more than once)- but he was not in the habit of calling all women these names nor did he call them that just because they were women.

    Tim Kaine claimed that Trump said a judge was unqualified for a Federal lawsuit because his parents were Mexican. No, Trump said he was biased.

    He was not saying Mexicans are stupid. He was saying this judge was prejudiced against him because he was Mexican. Never mind that this contradicted Trump’s claim to be getting votes from Hispanics. And also contradicted the facts, because he had not ruled against him and in fact allowed him to postpone his testimony till after he election. Trump was claiming the case should have dismissed, which was not correct. But he didn’t say the judge was unqualified.

    The next thing as about John McCain, which is true, Trump aaid that, and Kaine actually made it milder.

    “African-Americans are living in Hell” became a lie.

    And he supposedly had said President Obama is not a U.S. citizen which he really hadn’t, and it wasn’t a bigoted statement, if you mean by that race.

    Kaine came off like a crazy person for attaching crazy meanings to what Trump said.

    Kaine claimed Trump demeans every group he talks about.

    He said Trump wanted to go house to house, school to school, business to business, and kick out 16 million people, which he hadn’t actually proposed. (The 16 million include 4.5 million or so U.S. citizens under the 14th amendment)

    Trump did say something like “I have a secret plan,” and “I know more than all the generals about ISIL,” and “I am going to fire all the generals” but he didn’t say in that order and these are not exact quotes, which you can tell because Trump never would say ISIL. Trump didn’t say he was going to fire every single general.

    And then there was this:

    …Ronald Reagan said something interesting about proliferation in the 1980’s. He said the problem with nuclear proliferation is some maniac could trigger a catastrophic event and I think that is who Governor Pence’s running mate is.

    I’m not sure what “taking after somebody in a Twitter war and making fun of her weight?” refers to.

    Tim Kaine said Donald Trump said Donald Trump says Mexicans are rapists and criminals. He actually said that people crossing the border illegally from Mexico were not the best of Mexico, but were rapists and criminals, (although some he said, were good people). He got that idea from Ann Coulter, according to an article in the New York Times magazine. It’s not true, but he did not say what Tim Kaine said he said.

    That it never changed added to the impression that while his quotes might be technically true, they misrepresented what Trump had said.

    And then he

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  102. I think I left some orphaned bits there at the endof the last comment.

    I found this included in a comment to an althouse poll:

    The debate format needs to be changed to have two moderators alternately asking questions, each moderator picked by a candidate and coordinating with that candidate to put the other candidate on the spot. I don’t know how that would work. If we;re going to have challenge questions – of course maybe the candidates could then ask questionsof each other, but it probably wouldn’t work the same.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  103. Tim Kaine said “the thought of Donald Trump commander-in-chief scares us to death.”

    I don’t know if it really scares Tim Kaine and his wife, but he sure hopes it scares the voters.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  104. * Donald Trump as commander-in-chief

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/06/us/politics/vice-president-transcript.html

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  105. @99. 2007? Rather irrelevant in 2016. Pre ’08-crash/recession/depression.

    Ideology is out. Pragmatism is in.

    “Remember the Maine!” – 1898

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  106. @95/100- Only 15 minutes? You should hae watched more then you’d know Kaine is much more Harvey Korman than Skelton’s Clem Kaddlehopper by a mile. Clem was a mime. Kaine was full Korman on steroids Tuesday night– all he forgot to do was ask for ‘Raisinettes.’

    “Oh Lili, Lili, Lili, legs, Lili, Lili …” – Hedley Lamarr [Harvey Korman] ‘Blazing Saddles,’ 1974

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  107. Never mind Clem, who the fuck is “Tim Pence”. Some obsessive little ferret is all hopped up on goofballs.

    Donald (bd230b)

  108. @ DCSCA, #105:

    Really? You are just going to try to brush the comment under the rug, without even guessing who said it? That makes me think you know.

    I figured it out, before I Googled to check my own work. I simply asked myself, “Why would Patterico be chortling over the identity of a commenter who left a fairly well-written, articulate, intelligent comment?” I mean, that’s not the sort of thing you normally laugh about, or say “You’ll never guess in a million years” who wrote this.

    The answer is, of course…happyfeet.

    I knew he was a lot smarter than he let on.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  109. Wow! It really reads like something the gayest harvardtrash pooper would write while opening a jar of gray poupon.

    Seriously, I knew he could write and discuss like a normal person. .

    Simon Jester (485863)

  110. hah you said poop on

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  111. Perhaps you used so many punctuation marks and capital letters back then you ran out.

    Anyone willing to do the analysis can see that.

    Simon Jester (485863)

  112. 110. I applaud the effort to get off the schneid.

    Guccifer 2.0’s tease with his 900MB file screen shot of Clinton Foundation server displays a file of donor info called “PaytoPlay”.

    Unexpectedly!

    DNF (755a85)

  113. Evidently the Donk plan is to torpedo HRC. Kaine made Biden appear distinguished.

    What good are ‘Debates’?

    DNF (755a85)

  114. This election’s October surprise would appear to be: that the Global Economy is tits up.

    DNF (755a85)

  115. @ happyfeet, #109:

    A serious question to you. Did you suffer some traumatic brain injury or psychological disorder in the last ten years? Or are these degenerative comments just some sort of stupid game that gives you a perverse sort of pleasure? I mean, I would think that you would be ashamed of yourself a little bit, and those are the only two legitimate alternatives I could think of. Is there another?

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  116. yes

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  117. Demosthenes, I leave the explanation to Rick James.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udNHsk57f24

    Simon Jester (485863)

  118. I’m sorry, but I asked you three questions. Which question was that yes meant to answer?

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  119. ok let’s start over

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  120. hi i’m happyfeet what’s your name

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  121. He’s David spade a jerk who should know better.

    narciso (d1f714)

  122. Cyrus Malik pouted out how some of the figures of the awakening chose to invite the Jaycee scorpions into their midst out of spite, there’s a lesson in there.

    narciso (d1f714)

  123. Here, Mr. Feet. Let me help.

    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    “”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    I think you dropped all these.

    Glad to help.

    Simon Jester (485863)

  124. Sammeh, it’s like kennedy’s Jeremiah against bork, there isn’t a rational rebuttal in Toto.

    narciso (d1f714)

  125. Coulter is overbroad, but the research supports her, the regime I Los pinos use the emigration as an escape valve.

    narciso (d1f714)

  126. I pointed out in the previous thread how Smith is open for business re endorsements, I look at the pattern not the shiny dot.

    narciso (d1f714)

  127. “I have many names, and none of them matter. Names are not important. To speak is to name names, but to speak is not important. A thing happens once that has never happened before. Seeing it, a man looks upon reality. He cannot tell others what he has seen. Others wish to know, however, so the question him saying, ‘What is it like, this thing you have seen?’ So he tries to tell them. Perhaps he has seen the very first fire in the world. He tells them, ‘It is red, like a poppy, but through it dance other colors. It has no form, like water, flowing everywhere. It is warm, like the sun of summer, only warmer. It exists for a time upon a piece of wood, and then the wood is gone, as though it were eaten, leaving behind that which is black and can be sifted like sand. When the wood is gone, it too is gone.’ Therefore, the hearers must think reality is like a poppy, like water, like the sun, like that which eats and excretes. They think it is like to anything that they are told it is like by the man who has known it. But they have not looked upon fire. They cannot really know it. They can only know of it. But fire comes again into the world, many times. More men look upon fire. After a time, fire is as common as grass and clouds and the air they breathe. They see that, while it is like a poppy, it is not a poppy, while it is like water, it is not water, while it is like the sun, it is not the sun, and while it is like that which eats and passes wastes, it is not that which eats and passes wastes, but something different from each of these apart or all of these together. So they look upon this new thing and they make a new word to call it. They call it ‘fire.’
    If they come upon one who still has not seen it and they speak to him of fire, he does not know what they mean. So they, in turn, fall back upon telling him what fire is like. As they do so, they know from their own experience that what they are telling him is not the truth, but only part of it. They know that this man will never know reality from their words, though all the words in the world are theirs to use. He must look upon the fire, smell of it, warm his hands by it, stare into its heart, or remain forever ignorant. Therefore, ‘fire’ does not matter, ‘earth’ and ‘air’ and ‘water’ do not matter. ‘I’ do not matter. No word matter. But man forgets reality and remembers words. The more words he remembers, the cleverer do his fellows esteem him. He looks upon the great transformations of the world, but he does not see them as they were seen when man looked upon reality for the first time. Their names come to his lips and he smiles as he tastes them, thinking he knows them in the naming. The thing that has never happened before is still happening. It is still a miracle. The great burning blossom squats, flowing, upon the limb of the world, excreting the ash of the world, and being none of these things I have named and at the same time all of them, and this is reality-the Nameless.”
    — Roger Zelazny, Lord Of Light

    nk (dbc370)

  128. Ah, nk. I miss Zelazny.


    “His followers called him Mahasamatman and said he was a god. He preferred to drop the Maha- and the -atman, however, and called himself Sam. He never claimed to be a god, but then he never claimed not to be a god.”

    HF is no Sam.

    Did you ever read “Doorways in the Sand”?

    Simon Jester (485863)

  129. I can’t say, Simon. I am only a recording device. 😉

    Yes, that is an amazingly good book, too. A prose poem.

    nk (dbc370)

  130. The Clintons and the Obama’s like the Buchanan’s leave wreckage in their path, like the dems did in their pull out of vietnam, zear zero and the boat people.

    narciso (d1f714)

  131. Pence won?

    That is a very effective ad produced by a competent campaign within hours of the event. The ad was blocked out before hand and Kaine followed a tight script in order to elicit the reaction necessary to make the ad work well. Pence’s responses were based upon the Trump tactic of denial of the obvious and the Clinton campaign will continue to capitalize Trump’s greatest weakness for the next month.

    Rick Ballard (1aa129)

  132. now does patterico want this place to become like cole’s balloon juice, or joyner’s where no real right of center person shows up for longer, we understand trump is a flawed candidate, wasn’t my preference, but look at that island of stability, you believed you saw in clem,

    besides the bezerker twitch last night,we’re also looking at his reflexive support of criminals, and his undermining of any counter to them, whether law enforcement or private self defense,

    narciso (d1f714)

  133. you want to know who infests that place, the jukebox grad oruk hai is typical, the sub perry nazgul is the standard,

    narciso (d1f714)

  134. No. You’ll note, narciso, that I studiously refrain from criticizing anyone for their choice of whom to vote for. If only people would do me the same courtesy.

    Patterico (b7c0f1)

  135. that’s really not the point, the world has been turned upside down in the last ten years, since the democrats were given any aspect of power,

    https://twitter.com/TerrorEvents/status/783639755049299968

    you want to see how bad it can get, how many cities burn, how many dirty bombs go off, anything other than a republican win,

    narciso (d1f714)

  136. we live in a world without laws, that they must abide by, but diktats and ukaz’s for the rest of us,

    http://www.weaselzippers.us/299281-clinton-foundation-failed-to-file-financial-info-on-affiliated-charities/

    narciso (d1f714)

  137. nk, the problem, as always consists of too many doodlehums.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  138. I liked asimov and clarke for serious scifi and harry harrison for lighter fare, piers anthony seemed too sarcastic,

    narciso (d1f714)

  139. Bill Clinton’s saying that Obamacare is a “crazy” system, which it surely is, but an unusual concession to hear from a Democrat, which was cited by Tom pence turns out not to be an old quote I never heard of, but something Bill Clinton said earlier the same day.

    He was only talking about people who just barely were over some eligibility for subsidy threshhold. (he didn’t say what the alternative was. You could choose the normal Democratic policy of a phaseout, with its high marginal tax rate. Better would be to let people reduce the threshhold for a subsequent year. Or they could hire a good tax accountant and prepare while still in the tax year – at least maybe contribute money to an standard IRA before April 15 – but if someone doesn’t have one it may take awhile to establish one. H&R Block probably isn’t watching out for this thing.

    http://reason.com/blog/2016/10/04/even-bill-clinton-thinks-obamacare-is-a

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  140. he acts like he had nothing to do with it, he endorsed robertscare wholeheartedly,

    narciso (d1f714)

  141. 113. DNF (755a85) — 10/5/2016 @ 4:35 am

    This election’s October surprise would appear to be: that the Global Economy is tits up.

    No, that won’t happen because they pulled back from their threat of a fine against Deutche Bank so massive that it rendered the bank insolvent.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  142. narciso @140. Yes of course, Bill Clinton is pretending to just notice things right now – because voters are noticing it right now.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  143. 106. Oh, I probably saw altogether maybe an hour or two. Was he maybe also on the Carol Burnett show? I mean Red Skelton. I think I may have seen him as a guest somewhere else. Harvey Korman wasa on the Carol Burnett show.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  144. I’ll just say that I know Trump is a terrible candidate, and I understand that if I tire of hearing it repeatedly I can leave.

    That said, I think Clinton is a particularly terrible candidate whose wreckage will be enabled by her party, the media, and too many repubs. She has already corrupted completely the state department, the FBI, the DOJ, and Obama has corrupted most everything else.

    I can’t see being part of a Clinton win in a state where my vote might matter. Trump is much more likely to be impeached than Clinton, and Pence seems a pretty good candidate to take over if need be.

    Terrible, embattled, and impeachable
    Vs.
    Really terrible, enabled, and unimpeachable,
    since I have a vote in a state in play;

    BUT,
    I think the bigger issue, the forest for the trees,
    is that our Republic has rotted to the point that the rule of law means nothing anymore, and the media is eager to act as a propaganda arm and many people can’t think clearly enough to see it because of our corrupted educational system.
    Ayers and co. are laughing now, probably more so in the future,
    until the end comes, when all is set right.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  145. This will be the October, or possibly, the November surprise:

    Barack Obama intervening in Syria against Russia, and by that I mean knocking out the Russian supplied air defense system of Syria and announcing that Russian planes will be shot down too if they fly over a U.S declared no fly zone

    (This will require agreement from either Turkey or Iraq or an aircraft carrier in the Mediterrean, or maybe Briish agreement to use British bases in Cyprus, and it could be construed as violating international law, and certainly as risking nuclear war with Russia (but Putin is bluffing)

    OR

    Deciding not to do so, and then pressuring Turkey to admit Syrian refugees.

    (The only possible safe zones for Syrians are places where the United States is prepared to shoot down Russian planes, and if that’s not any place in Syria, then it has to be outside of Syria.)

    OR

    Becoming complicit in war crimes by Russia.

    Because enforcing the Turkish border against Syrian refugees is being complicit in war crimes, and
    Barack Obama and John Kerry have been cured of their delusions.

    That would be even more so, if Syria was helped in any way to fight ISIS.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  146. therein lies the rub, the mind arson has scorched too many, the saving element is given a choice re brexit and colombia this week, the people can occasionally reason their way to a right path,

    santos, was reelected thanks to a #neveruribe candidate

    narciso (d1f714)

  147. I think Vladimir Putin has a November surprise in store to affect this election

    The New York Times front page article says:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/05/world/middleeast/syria-russia-us-election.html

    American intelligence analysts have told the White House that the Russian goal is to help the Syrian military retake the besieged city of Aleppo so that Moscow can resume talks on Syria’s future on vastly stronger terms, according to administration officials who asked not to be identified because they were discussing classified assessments.

    No, no, I think he has a much greater goal than merely getting an advantage in Syria.

    Putin probably expects this to help Donald Trump become president.

    His idea is that Obama will either 1) intervene in Syria or 2) press for more refugees, and that Hillary will feel compelled to endorse whatever he does or does not do, and either choice will be unpopular because and help elect Donald Trump.

    Whatever Barack Obama decides will in some way advantage Putin is the idea. Putin will not give Obama an easy out.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  148. Hey, this is fun. Who wrote this comment?

    I agree, and I am once again humbled by the incredible power of the Internet to build consensus.

    But I think your question of whether things will be as bad in Iraq if we retreat now as opposed to two years from now is hypothetical, not practical. A very wise man once noted that there are “known unknowns” out there, and I think the way you are framing the question suggests that our policy should be driven by a reductionist pragmatism that completely ignores the question of what America should be seen to stand for. Our commitments in Iraq were embodied in a bipartisan resolution, and walking away from that will have consequences that your analytical framework does not seem to take into consideration.

    Indeed, huh?

    Patterico (bcf524)

  149. narciso @146. You;re absolutely right about Columbia.

    FARC cannot be given impunity.

    Neither, really, can Vladimir Putin, certainly if it extends to the point of preventing people from escaping.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  150. for 50 years, the farc has tried to replicate the 26th of july, and the sandinistas, they see another path, the way of caracas and buenos aires, to the same goal

    narciso (d1f714)

  151. 148. It sounds like someone who writes with some intellectual complexity. Is this anyone who at least occasionally goes here now?

    The only thought that occurs to me is Beldar, but it doesn’t sound like him either.

    One thing: Walking away from Iraq did not create ISIS. Allowing al Qaeda in Iraq to seek sanctuary in Syria is what did that.

    Walking away from Iraq and relying on a corrupt Iraqi high command is what enabled ISIS to go back into Iraq and nearly run it over in the spring of 2014.

    The United States could have helped destroy ISIS in Syria in 2013, when it formed, or became independent of al Qaeda, but Barack Obama didn’t want to do it because he had no mandate or becasuse he didn’t trust the group(s) that asked for help.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  152. The 26th of July is Castro and military victory, Caracas and Buenos Aires is elections. Am I right?

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  153. Ah, Mr. Finkelman. Google is your friend.

    https://patterico.com/2007/01/07/a-gruesome-taste-of-things-to-come/

    The author of the material Patterico refers to in #148 is…wait for it….

    Happyfeet, before he started in on the bath salts.

    Seriously, that Happyfeet is trying to engage and discuss.

    The other one is just peeing on Patterico’s carpet.

    I wonder if that Happyfeet voted? I’ll bet he did.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  154. yes, one was insurrection, one was election, my guess is a fmr? guerilla would be running for president, within 5 years,

    narciso (d1f714)

  155. there were considerably more trolls back then,

    narciso (d1f714)

  156. That really was happyfeet?

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  157. Maybe happyfeet just decided to finally give internet comments the gravatas and seriousness they actually deserve.

    I have noticed on occasion that he slips up and used caps & punctuation properly. So, excellent try but even professionals slip up once in a while.

    Now, if we could get happyfeet and Althouse’s Laslo on the same blog, we could shut down the rest of the internet.

    fred-2 (ce04f3)

  158. But Laslo is more serious, albeit most of it includes some things that are a little like Silence of the Lambs.

    Sammy Finkelman (6e331b)

  159. I think Tim Kaine in the debate was aiming at the lowest information possible voter.

    You have to be not following any of the election news to believe some of the accusations. A person literally has to know nothing about Donald Trump, and was maybe never exposed to some of Donald Trump’s statements before. And they also have to know nothing about Hillary Clinton because otherwise why should anyone believe anything on his say-so?

    There are such people, and I think this also was aimed at motivating turnout. Get people really worried about Donald Trump. It’s low information people also who are most likely not to vote.

    Even things that were essentially true were exagerated and changed and made into some stereotype.

    Even Trump’s statements about countries getting nuclear weapons. First, and this might be lost to low information voters, that’s talking about countries the U.S. is at least somewhat allied with. Saudi Arabia is the most questionable, and he apparently only said it once, or rather answered a question yes.

    Second, he didn’t say the world would be better off with more countries possessing nuclear weapons – he said, or implied, it wouldn’t matter. That’s what the Reagan quote was brought in to oppose – only then, Tim Kaine turned around and made that Reagan quote apply to, not some foreign dictator, but none other than Donald Trump! Reagan wasn’t into self-deterrence, or protection against a bad president. At least that’s not what that quote aboujt nuclear prolieferation was about.

    Trump’s big foolishness was speaking about abandoning other countres if they didn’t pay defense taxes to the United States – I mean that’s what it amounts to. Very bad, but not exactly what Tim Kaine tried to make him say. Even if tghere is something in the North Atlantic Treaty that says other countries shold invest more in their defense. That would be spendinbg it on their own army.

    Sammy Finkelman (6e331b)


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