Debate Prep: Who’s Even More Dishonest Than Donald Trump?
The answer is, of course, Big Media fact checkers.
A piece in POLITICO Magazine purports to warn you about “lies” that may be told by Trump and Clinton during tomorrow’s debate. (The link is to a cached version of the piece; I don’t link POLITICO directly, and haven’t for years, because they are bullies.) The problem is that two of the three “lies” they attribute to Trump are not lies at all, but are literally true. Start with this claim:
Trump’s claim: “Fifty-eight percent of African American youth are not working.”
The truth: Trump is way off on the data about black youth.
Trump has been pretty up front with African Americans, urging them to drop their longtime loyalty to the Democratic Party because that support has amounted to little in the way of economic success. “What the hell do you have to lose?” he asked during a visit to central Michigan last month.
To bring his point home, one of Trump’s favorite riffs is about just how few young African Americans have jobs right now. For example, during a stop in High Point, North Carolina, last week, Trump said that “58 percent of African American youth are not working.”
Trump should know better than to keep using that line. He’s been flogged repeatedly by fact checkers for similar statements.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the latest data actually finds that the unemployment rate for African Americans 16-to-24 years old is 15.7 percent.
The Trump campaign maintains that it gets to the 58 percent figure by counting up both the young people who are trying to find jobs but can’t get them and also the ones who are “not in the labor force.” But that’s a pretty misleading way of sizing up the situation. Under his definition, Trump is counting busy students as unemployed, whether or not they’re looking for a job.
The bottom line here is that Trump said “58 percent of African American youth are not working” and the fact-checkers admit it’s true . . . but call it a “lie” because they don’t like the implications of that true statement.
Trump has indeed stated in the past that 58% of black youth are “unemployed,” which is inaccurate. But his current statement deals with the percentage of black youths not working, and that figure is accurate.
What’s more, Trump has a point. The piece claims that counting students among those not “working” is misleading. But even the dishonest fact-checkers at the Washington Post have to admit that, when you take students out of the equation, black youths are employed at a far lower rate than white youths:
If Trump really is interested in the rate of disengagement among black youth, there is an academically accepted measure he can use. It’s called NEET, which stands for “Neither Employed nor in Education or Training.” This measure factors out students altogether, and measures the share of disconnected youth aged 16 to 24.
Pew Research Center’s Drew DeSilver, who has written about youth unemployment and NEETs, calculated a 2015 NEET rate among black youth 16 to 24 at 20.9 percent of the total civilian non-institutional population, compared with 14.7 percent among white youth of the same age range.
So it turns out that the share of unemployed black youths who aren’t students or in training is over 140% the share of white youths in the same situation (20.9% versus 14.7%). Sounds like Trump might have something of a point there! But you won’t read that in POLITICO Magazine . . .
Let’s move on to POLITICO’s second Trump “lie”:
Trump’s claim: Clinton supports “open borders” and a “550 percent increase” in Syrian refugees
The truth: Trump is wrong about Clinton’s plans for immigration and refugees.
. . . .
Clinton’s plan for handling the Syrian refugee crisis keeps getting similarly bungled by Trump. Last week provided the latest instance of this, when Trump issued a statement vowing to oppose Clinton’s “550 percent increase in the number of refugees from the conflict in Syria.”
The truth is, there’s no basis in that figure. Trump has taken a plan Clinton issued where she said she would welcome 55,000 additional refugees from the war-torn country over the course of a single year, and extrapolated it out at the same rate of expansion for the duration of a four-year term. On top of that, Trump’s assumption implies Clinton would continue with the Obama administration’s latest budget proposal for fiscal year 2017, where the U.S. would accept 100,000 refugees. Clinton, in fact, has said no such thing.
This is double-talk. Trump didn’t say anything about a four-year term or extrapolating anything. He said Hillary Clinton is calling for a “550 percent increase in the number of refugees from the conflict in Syria.” We know this is true because — God forgive me for citing these people — even lefty PolitiFact admits it:
During a Sept. 20 appearance on CBS’ Face the Nation, Clinton was asked if President Barack Obama’s plan to increase the number allowed into the United States to 10,000 was enough. (The United States had accepted about 2,000 in 2015.)
“Look, we’re facing the worst refugee crisis since the end of World War II, and I think the United States has to do more, and I would like to see us move from what is a good start with 10,000 to 65,000 and begin immediately to put into place the mechanisms for vetting the people that we would take in,” Clinton said. . . . A jump to 65,000 would be a 550 percent increase. . . . Clinton has, in fact, said that in response to the refugee crisis she would raise Obama’s limit of 10,000 to 65,000. That’s 550 percent more . . .
Once again, POLITICO’s Trump “lie” is . . . true.
POLITICO’s third Trump lie is: “I was totally against the war in Iraq.” And . . . that is a lie. Because he totally wasn’t.
Hey, Donald Trump is a giant liar. That doesn’t mean that we have to pretend every Big Media claim about him is true.
[Cross-posted at RedState.]
Ding.
Patterico (bcf524) — 9/25/2016 @ 12:15 pmi love this post more than beans and fishsticks (except for that last little part)
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/25/2016 @ 12:21 pmNot sure it reflects well on those with zero interest in the Truth to assign the label of ‘liar’.
DNF (755a85) — 9/25/2016 @ 12:25 pmhttp://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/297637-clintons-lead-narrows-to-3-points-in-pennsylvania
DNF (755a85) — 9/25/2016 @ 12:27 pmThe New York Times has a list of 31 “whoppers” delivered by Donald Trump during one week (Thursday September 115 through Wednesday, September 21, 2016 on page 26 today
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/09/24/us/elections/donald-trump-statements.html?_r=0
And I believe all these examples come from the New York Times. The New York Times sounds like it is claiming it did it itself, and says also they eliminated hyperbole or humor, or statements delivered partly for effect and what it says “could generously be called rounding errors” and items in that category it says run into the dozens.
It looks like the New York Times succumbed to the notion it ought to take a position on Trump’s statements. Like what some Op-Ed columnists have been writing:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/25/opinion/sunday/how-to-cover-a-charlatan-like-trump.html?_r=0
Something like this belongs on the editorial or Op-ed page or at least labeled as commentary.
The word “lie” does not appear in the article and I couldn’t find it that way and had to back to the printed newspaper. The word “whoppers” and untruths” “exaggerations” and “lies” do appear. But searching foe Trump and lies on the New York Times web page didn’t find this article.
I’m telling you the locus classicus is the New York Times.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/25/2016 @ 12:29 pmThe Trump campaign responded but, the New York Times declares “in none of the following instances did the responses ssupport his assertions.” (which could mean maybe they did drop one or more)
Some of the remaining 31 are NOT real lies, and in at least two cases it is the New York Times that is wrong or it makes Trump more wrong tahn it is.
In some of the others, the wrongness of what Trump said is off his main point.
Eaxmple number 21: Trump says Mrs. Clinton destroyed 13 smartphones with a hammer:
NYT says: Only two were destroyed with a hammer. I suppose the New York times could also have said, if it wanetd to, that a Hillary aide destroyed them, and she didn’t do it herself.
Example number 13; Trump says Kasich won only one primary, and that not by much – that was Ohio.
NYT says: Kasich won Ohio by 11% – that means he crushed Trump.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/25/2016 @ 12:30 pmBlack youth not working is Number 26.
It may be misleading but it is not a lie. It has bene poiinted out that asimilar figure for white teenagers is 49%. The official unemployment rate for bkack youth was 20.6% And they are right – that’s even counting people attending high school.
Syrian refugees is number 24, except that what the New York Times said Trump said is that Hillary Clinton’s plan would rbing in 620,000 refugees and cost 4400 billion.
NYT:” All that Hillary Clinton has endorsed is 65,000 this year, on top of other admissions.
The New York Times has several different kinds of statements that Trump has made about the war with Iraq. It seems like he is tewlling a tangled tale.
That last one might be true.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/25/2016 @ 12:39 pmFeel good story out of Chiraq:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/09/25/robbers-try-mug-pizza-delivery-boy-turns-ex-nfl-linebacker/
DNF (755a85) — 9/25/2016 @ 12:40 pm@5 The New York Times has a list of 31 “whoppers” delivered by Donald Trump during one week ‘
It’s no secret he likes fast food.
‘Hold the pickles; hold the lettuce, special orders don’t upset us…’ -Burger King commercial jingle
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/25/2016 @ 12:47 pmDebate Prep: Who’s Even More Dishonest Than Donald Trump?
More honest question, multiple choice answers:
Why does a former First Lady, former U.S. Senator and ex-Sec. of State, experienced at the highest levels of government for 30 years, need to be ‘preparing’ and ‘studying’ so ‘hard’ and so ‘secretively’ so much?
[ ] stroke
[ ] dementia
[ ] memory loss
[ ] vision issues
[ ] neurological problem
[ ] all of the above
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/25/2016 @ 1:06 pmDCSCA @10. No they all prepare. They say that Obama lost his first debate against Romney in 2011 because he didn’t prepare enough. I think he lost that debate (n the economy) because he was so wrong.
Trump doesn’t like practice sessions. What’s happening now is that some of his people, like Giuliani are feeding him possible questions.
Trump also just can’t read (dull and turgid, and besides the point?) briefing books. It may written above his level of knowledge too, in which case it would be waste of time to attempt to study them.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/25/2016 @ 1:14 pmBob23,
Your comment actually reminds me a lot of one I might come across at Kos.
You didn’t read the post. You read who wrote it and decided to lash out. Patterico just defended something Trump said as truthful against someone who said he was lying.
And it’s true, a large number of folks from every demographic are not working. This is a problem. There’s simply less being done and made in our society than there could be, as our society falls deeper into debt. So many in politics think there’s something acceptable about not seeking work and it’s one of the many bizarre things I hope future generations rake our era over the coals for.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/25/2016 @ 1:17 pmAbout half of the New York Times list of 31 are real lies, or opinions impossile for anyone to hold.
Some may just be mistakes, or guesses he didn’t check. For example, Trump has said (numbers 14 and 15) taht lester Holt is a Democrata and that all the moderators are Democrats.
NYT: In actuality, Lester Holt is registered Republican, and the only Democrat among tehm is …Chris Wallace, of Fox News. (somehow I think the fact that it works out that way is not an accident.)
“Lie” number 31 is Trump claiming Bernie Sanders fell victim to a rigged system with the superdelegates.
NYT: Sanders lost the pleghed delegates, too. (that is, he lost even without the superdelegates.)
Now you could say the system discouraged challengers. And that Biden maybe didn’t run for that reason.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/25/2016 @ 1:21 pmNot quote alie:
And I think one or two others. The one who did wa sfeatured the most.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/25/2016 @ 1:25 pmMaudie is so weak, her spinners are already insisting Holt help her on fact checking.
“Nearer My God to Thee”– hymn played by deck orchestra as RMS Titanic sank, 1912.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/25/2016 @ 1:29 pmCould be a lie:
ot taht it’s not true – but it’s not different tahn otehr candidates. There may be apoint at which this began.
Anotehr kind of funny lie: that may not be a lie:
OK, he did not invent it, but maybe she is still copying him in this election.
More likely to be an error than a lie:
NYT links to:
http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/15/news/companies/donald-trump-ford-ceo-mark-fields/
Moving production, yes. Laying off workers, no.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/25/2016 @ 1:29 pmArut 7 (and similar things elsewhere)
A Reuters poll estimates that 22% of US voters are still undecided as to who (if anyone) they will support come election day. This is a very high percentage, double the proportion of undecided voters at the same point of the 2012 election .
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/25/2016 @ 1:36 pmLinks selected by Rich Galen:
http://www.mullings.com/dr_09-25-16.htm
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/25/2016 @ 1:39 pmIn 1984 in the first debate, Reagan’s head was so stuffed with memorized facts he lost the ability to think.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/25/2016 @ 1:40 pmThey say debates don’t usually change votes. But they may accelerate a trend. Reagan was ruising anyway in 1980.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/25/2016 @ 1:41 pmIf Hillary concedes Ohio, she’s conceding the election is at least close.
If it splits right down the middle there’s an opening for Mcmullin if he at least carries Utah. But that would be something.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/25/2016 @ 1:43 pmWhat exactly did you think the word ‘partisan’ means?
And if Patterico is a Trump hater and he sides with Trump on an issue, why are you condemning him?
Is it not enough to be honest? One must love Trump or what they say should be bashed?
Trying to follow a Trump fan’s reasoning can be fascinating.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/25/2016 @ 1:48 pm“As most of you know, I had been endorsing Hillary Clinton for president, for my personal safety, because I live in California. It isn’t safe to be a Trump supporter where I live. And it’s bad for business too. But recently I switched my endorsement to Trump, and I owe you an explanation. So here it goes.
1. Things I Don’t Know: There are many things I don’t know. For example, I don’t know the best way to defeat ISIS. Neither do you. I don’t know the best way to negotiate trade policies. Neither do you. I don’t know the best tax policy to lift all boats. Neither do you. My opinion on abortion is that men should follow the lead of women on that topic because doing so produces the most credible laws. So on most political topics, I don’t know enough to make a decision. Neither do you, but you probably think you do.
Given the uncertainty about each candidate – at least in my own mind – I have been saying I am not smart enough to know who would be the best president. That neutrality changed when Clinton proposed raising estate taxes. I understand that issue and I view it as robbery by government.
I’ll say more about that, plus some other issues I do understand, below.
2. Confiscation of Property: Clinton proposed a new top Estate Tax of 65% on people with net worth over $500 million. Her website goes to great length to obscure the actual policy details, including the fact that taxes would increase on lower value estates as well. See the total lack of transparency here, where the text simply refers to going back to 2009 rates. It is clear that the intent of the page is to mislead, not inform.
So don’t fall for the claim that Clinton has plenty of policy details on her website. She does, but it is organized to mislead, not to inform. That’s far worse than having no details.
The bottom line is that under Clinton’s plan, estate taxes would be higher for anyone with estates over $5 million(ish). I call this a confiscation tax because income taxes have already been paid on this money. In my case, a dollar I earn today will be taxed at about 50% by various government entities, collectively. With Clinton’s plan, my remaining 50 cents will be taxed again at 50% when I die. So the government would take 75% of my earnings from now on.
Yes, I can do clever things with trusts to avoid estate taxes. But that is just welfare for lawyers. If the impact of the estate tax is nothing but higher fees for my attorney, and hassle for me, that isn’t good news either.
You can argue whether an estate tax is fair or unfair, but fairness is an argument for idiots and children. Fairness isn’t an objective quality of the universe. I oppose the estate tax because I was born to modest means and worked 7-days a week for most of my life to be in my current position. (I’m working today, Sunday, as per usual.) And I don’t want to give 75% of my earnings to the government. (Would you?)
3. Party or Wake: It seems to me that Trump supporters are planning for the world’s biggest party on election night whereas Clinton supporters seem to be preparing for a funeral. I want to be invited to the event that doesn’t involve crying and moving to Canada. (This issue isn’t my biggest reason.)
4. Clinton’s Health: To my untrained eyes and ears, Hillary Clinton doesn’t look sufficiently healthy – mentally or otherwise – to be leading the country. If you disagree, take a look at the now-famous “Why aren’t I 50 points ahead” video clip. Likewise, Bill Clinton seems to be in bad shape too, and Hillary wouldn’t be much use to the country if she is taking care of a dying husband on the side.
5. Pacing and Leading: Trump always takes the extreme position on matters of safety and security for the country, even if those positions are unconstitutional, impractical, evil, or something that the military would refuse to do. Normal people see this as a dangerous situation. Trained persuaders like me see this as something called pacing and leading. Trump “paces” the public – meaning he matches them in their emotional state, and then some. He does that with his extreme responses on immigration, fighting ISIS, stop-and-frisk, etc. Once Trump has established himself as the biggest bad-ass on the topic, he is free to “lead,” which we see him do by softening his deportation stand, limiting his stop-and-frisk comment to Chicago, reversing his first answer on penalties for abortion, and so on. If you are not trained in persuasion, Trump look scary. If you understand pacing and leading, you might see him as the safest candidate who has ever gotten this close to the presidency. That’s how I see him.
So when Clinton supporters ask me how I could support a “fascist,” the answer is that he isn’t one. Clinton’s team, with the help of Godzilla, have effectively persuaded the public to see Trump as scary. The persuasion works because Trump’s “pacing” system is not obvious to the public. They see his “first offers” as evidence of evil. They are not. They are technique.
And being chummy with Putin is more likely to keep us safe, whether you find that distasteful or not. Clinton wants to insult Putin into doing what we want. That approach seems dangerous as hell to me.
6. Persuasion: Economies are driven by psychology. If you expect things to go well tomorrow, you invest today, which causes things to go well tomorrow, as long as others are doing the same. The best kind of president for managing the psychology of citizens – and therefore the economy – is a trained persuader. You can call that persuader a con man, a snake oil salesman, a carnival barker, or full of shit. It’s all persuasion. And Trump simply does it better than I have ever seen anyone do it.
The battle with ISIS is also a persuasion problem. The entire purpose of military action against ISIS is to persuade them to stop, not to kill every single one of them. We need military-grade persuasion to get at the root of the problem. Trump understands persuasion, so he is likely to put more emphasis in that area.
Most of the job of president is persuasion. Presidents don’t need to understand policy minutia. They need to listen to experts and then help sell the best expert solutions to the public. Trump sells better than anyone you have ever seen, even if you haven’t personally bought into him yet. You can’t deny his persuasion talents that have gotten him this far.
In summary, I don’t understand the policy details and implications of most of either Trump’s or Clinton’s proposed ideas. Neither do you. But I do understand persuasion. I also understand when the government is planning to confiscate the majority of my assets. And I can also distinguish between a deeply unhealthy person and a healthy person, even though I have no medical training. (So can you.)”
— Scott Adams
Colonel Haiku (d0a528) — 9/25/2016 @ 2:14 pm“As most of you know, I had been endorsing Hillary Clinton for president, for my personal safety, because I live in California. It isn’t safe to be a Trump supporter where I live. And it’s bad for business too. But recently I switched my endorsement to Trump, and I owe you an explanation. So here it goes.
1. Things I Don’t Know: There are many things I don’t know. For example, I don’t know the best way to defeat ISIS. Neither do you. I don’t know the best way to negotiate trade policies. Neither do you. I don’t know the best tax policy to lift all boats. Neither do you. My opinion on abortion is that men should follow the lead of women on that topic because doing so produces the most credible laws. So on most political topics, I don’t know enough to make a decision. Neither do you, but you probably think you do.
Given the uncertainty about each candidate – at least in my own mind – I have been saying I am not smart enough to know who would be the best president. That neutrality changed when Clinton proposed raising estate taxes. I understand that issue and I view it as robbery by government.
I’ll say more about that, plus some other issues I do understand, below.
2. Confiscation of Property: Clinton proposed a new top Estate Tax of 65% on people with net worth over $500 million. Her website goes to great length to obscure the actual policy details, including the fact that taxes would increase on lower value estates as well. See the total lack of transparency here, where the text simply refers to going back to 2009 rates. It is clear that the intent of the page is to mislead, not inform.
So don’t fall for the claim that Clinton has plenty of policy details on her website. She does, but it is organized to mislead, not to inform. That’s far worse than having no details.
The bottom line is that under Clinton’s plan, estate taxes would be higher for anyone with estates over $5 million(ish). I call this a confiscation tax because income taxes have already been paid on this money. In my case, a dollar I earn today will be taxed at about 50% by various government entities, collectively. With Clinton’s plan, my remaining 50 cents will be taxed again at 50% when I die. So the government would take 75% of my earnings from now on.
Yes, I can do clever things with trusts to avoid estate taxes. But that is just welfare for lawyers. If the impact of the estate tax is nothing but higher fees for my attorney, and hassle for me, that isn’t good news either.
You can argue whether an estate tax is fair or unfair, but fairness is an argument for idiots and children. Fairness isn’t an objective quality of the universe. I oppose the estate tax because I was born to modest means and worked 7-days a week for most of my life to be in my current position. (I’m working today, Sunday, as per usual.) And I don’t want to give 75% of my earnings to the government. (Would you?)
3. Party or Wake: It seems to me that Trump supporters are planning for the world’s biggest party on election night whereas Clinton supporters seem to be preparing for a funeral. I want to be invited to the event that doesn’t involve crying and moving to Canada. (This issue isn’t my biggest reason.)
4. Clinton’s Health: To my untrained eyes and ears, Hillary Clinton doesn’t look sufficiently healthy – mentally or otherwise – to be leading the country. If you disagree, take a look at the now-famous “Why aren’t I 50 points ahead” video clip. Likewise, Bill Clinton seems to be in bad shape too, and Hillary wouldn’t be much use to the country if she is taking care of a dying husband on the side.
5. Pacing and Leading: Trump always takes the extreme position on matters of safety and security for the country, even if those positions are unconstitutional, impractical, evil, or something that the military would refuse to do. Normal people see this as a dangerous situation. Trained persuaders like me see this as something called pacing and leading. Trump “paces” the public – meaning he matches them in their emotional state, and then some. He does that with his extreme responses on immigration, fighting ISIS, stop-and-frisk, etc. Once Trump has established himself as the biggest bad-ass on the topic, he is free to “lead,” which we see him do by softening his deportation stand, limiting his stop-and-frisk comment to Chicago, reversing his first answer on penalties for abortion, and so on. If you are not trained in persuasion, Trump look scary. If you understand pacing and leading, you might see him as the safest candidate who has ever gotten this close to the presidency. That’s how I see him.
So when Clinton supporters ask me how I could support a “fascist,” the answer is that he isn’t one. Clinton’s team, with the help of Godzilla, have effectively persuaded the public to see Trump as scary. The persuasion works because Trump’s “pacing” system is not obvious to the public. They see his “first offers” as evidence of evil. They are not. They are technique.
And being chummy with Putin is more likely to keep us safe, whether you find that distasteful or not. Clinton wants to insult Putin into doing what we want. That approach seems dangerous as hell to me.
6. Persuasion: Economies are driven by psychology. If you expect things to go well tomorrow, you invest today, which causes things to go well tomorrow, as long as others are doing the same. The best kind of president for managing the psychology of citizens – and therefore the economy – is a trained persuader. You can call that persuader a con man, a snake oil salesman, a carnival barker, or full of sh*t. It’s all persuasion. And Trump simply does it better than I have ever seen anyone do it.
The battle with ISIS is also a persuasion problem. The entire purpose of military action against ISIS is to persuade them to stop, not to kill every single one of them. We need military-grade persuasion to get at the root of the problem. Trump understands persuasion, so he is likely to put more emphasis in that area.
Most of the job of president is persuasion. Presidents don’t need to understand policy minutia. They need to listen to experts and then help sell the best expert solutions to the public. Trump sells better than anyone you have ever seen, even if you haven’t personally bought into him yet. You can’t deny his persuasion talents that have gotten him this far.
In summary, I don’t understand the policy details and implications of most of either Trump’s or Clinton’s proposed ideas. Neither do you. But I do understand persuasion. I also understand when the government is planning to confiscate the majority of my assets. And I can also distinguish between a deeply unhealthy person and a healthy person, even though I have no medical training. (So can you.)”
— Scott Adams
Colonel Haiku (d0a528) — 9/25/2016 @ 2:18 pmBob,
Everyone knows Trump is a serial liar and a horrible man, but the press lied about employment statistics to pretend something Trump was accurate about is not accurate. This is interesting because employment statistics are one of the most abused stats.
You said ‘it’s an old lawyer trick’. What do you mean? You say his piece is not honest. What do you mean?
I keep asking you and you keep not saying. You’re just rambling, Trump fan.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/25/2016 @ 2:34 pmwhether you pick Mr. Trump or you decide we’re better off with diseased sickly geriatric b*tch puddin
this is between you and your God
me and Jesus are going with Mr. Trump though
i just wanted you to know for so you can make an informed choice
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/25/2016 @ 2:44 pmHang in there, Bob. You’ll eventually learn that not living up to exacting standards and qualifications are a running joke around here. But lay off the Chief.
Colonel Haiku (d0a528) — 9/25/2016 @ 2:51 pmDebate Prep: Who’s Even More Dishonest…
Pfft. All politicians are dishonest with voters; recent example: Ted Cruz.
JR is just beating them at their own game.
“Never tell the truth when a good lie’ll do.”– JR Ewing, [Larry Hagman] ‘Dallas’ CBS-TV, 1978-1991.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/25/2016 @ 2:57 pmDidn’t Trump brag that he has never asked God for forgiveness because he’s never needed to? The guy whose Taj Mahal Casino pioneered having an on site Strip Club by contracting for one via Bob Gans, the brothel owning human trafficker? I’m not sure Jesus really wants you speaking for him. However, if Jesus walked the earth today he would definitely seek out people like Trump to minister to, much as he ministered to tax collectors and prostitutes in ancient times. Deep within Trump’s perved out and treacherous heart is a human soul capable of redemption, after all.
Haiku, I know you like to be passive aggressive, and that last comment of yours is a classic mean girly example that got a legitimate laugh out of me, but you’ve developed a terrible habit of interrupting my conversations with enormous amounts of off topic copypasta. Even a troll like you is better than that. The only thing funnier is when I’ve been away for a week or two and catch up on some threads to find you rambling about how terrible I am in threads I never uttered a word in. You’ve built me up in your head as something worth obsession. If you never uttered another word in these blogs I wouldn’t give you another thought, but I seem to have made a real difference in your life. Thank you.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/25/2016 @ 3:13 pmif Mr. Trump wins the whole president does that mean he’s been forgiven?
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/25/2016 @ 3:19 pmBlow it out your rear portal, Dustin. Only a guy like you would think that comment was reserved for you and you only. Good day, sir.
Colonel Haiku (d0a528) — 9/25/2016 @ 3:19 pmYou’ve got a point. All politicians are cynical bastards, and truth is a tactic. Cruz is no different, though he calculated that being stalwart and honest about conservatism would carve out a niche, and I find value in that politically.
Still, is Trump really winning at this game? Remember, before Cruz flip flopped on Trump, Trump flip flopped on Hillary. I still find it unlikely Trump will win the election because no one, even his own fans, actually trusts him. He is simply running on the ‘Hillary is worse’ argument. During the debates, that will be his argument, and the answer to it is to quote Trump telling Americans they need to vote for Hillary because she would make a great president. Trump is a classic example of painting yourself into a corner. Trump is a short term thinker, not a president.
When (or I’ll grant ‘if’) Trump loses, most of the people he ‘beat’ will hold political power and be relevant, and Trump will be a footnote in history biting at their ankles.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/25/2016 @ 3:20 pmGood grief. Be a man and say what you mean instead of playing this passive aggressive game of insulting people vaguely and crying ‘prove it’ when they look you in the eye and respond to you directly.
You really don’t actually know what kind of guy I’m like, by the way. I don’t talk about myself on here at all. I find the topic interesting, and find the personal stuff distracting. Again, you’ve built me up into some monster worth obsessing over, and you talk about me endlessly, even in threads I am not in. You’ve lied repeatedly, even about my family and heritage. I could post links to mods telling you to stop lying about what you’ve said.
I accept you can’t help it and that this is a really emotional issue for you, as sad as that is. All I’m asking is that you knock off the walls of copypasta, which usually seem to come right after I comment, and before you insult me. Even if it’s just a wild coincidence it’s annoying to scroll past.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/25/2016 @ 3:27 pmMoar of the literary equivalent of the Running of the Pomeranians at Pamplona, please.
Colonel Haiku (d0a528) — 9/25/2016 @ 3:31 pmSome get it, some don’t. Some are gracious, some wouldn’t recognize it if they tripped over it. And there are those that enjoy brown-nosing, when they aren’t bloviating about the obvious, questioning the motivations of others, or whole-heartedly misrepresenting the beliefs or principles of others or simply lying about what others have said.
Colonel Haiku (d0a528) — 9/25/2016 @ 3:39 pmBeware of comments made by leftwing d-bags, Bob. They lie.
Colonel Haiku (d0a528) — 9/25/2016 @ 3:41 pmactually except for the last two, it never was such, jennings had a trapper keeper out for the palestinians,
kristof is a piece of work, remember he was one of joe ‘the liar’ wilson’s sources early on,
narciso (d1f714) — 9/25/2016 @ 4:06 pmnot to mention what he wrought against dr. steven hatfill,
narciso (d1f714) — 9/25/2016 @ 4:07 pmtom friedman is nearly as great a hack re the palestinians,
https://patterico.com/2005/01/12/kristof-us-should-be-more-like-china-on-infant-mortality/
they trained him as an arabist, then they sent to moscow and peking,
narciso (d1f714) — 9/25/2016 @ 4:10 pmFinkelman gets right to the heart of the matter.
Good posts, Sammy. The whole lot.
papertiger (82d7e8) — 9/25/2016 @ 4:12 pmnothing to see here,
http://www.weaselzippers.us/297527-27-things-new-fbi-doc-drop-tells-us-including-state-dept-interfered-with-foia-clinton-deleted-1000-emails-to-gen-petreus/
narciso (d1f714) — 9/25/2016 @ 4:18 pmthe answer is better put, is there anything they are telling the truth about,
http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/arcan-cetin-hillary-clinton-liberal-conservative-democrat-trump-muslim-islam-turkey-isis-hispanic-cascade-mall-shooter-gunman-shooting-twitter-facebook/
narciso (d1f714) — 9/25/2016 @ 4:31 pmI hope those “facts” don’t play a role in your thinking today. We’ve been subjected to six decades of indoctrination, and our trust in the men you named was horribly misplaced. It was what they chose not to report that made the big difference. Tens of millions were dying in China while these fools marveled at Mao’s little Red Book. And the Soviet Union was considered a giant bestriding the world, the face of the future. JFK’s cadre of fools were considered the best and the brightest, followed by LBJ’s institutionalization of poverty.
BobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 9/25/2016 @ 4:37 pmI wonder what portion of black youths excluded from the NEET count are simply taking GED courses at their local community college. I’m glad they are, and I give them full credit for taking responsibility for their lives, but they are spending years of their adult lives correcting for the failure of our inner city schools to provide them with a proper education. We should all be concerned that so many have to resort to this remedial education, particularly after we’ve spent very large fortunes paying for what was claimed to be their education.
BobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 9/25/2016 @ 4:46 pmwell they don’t break it down that way, but one can take a guess,
http://www.aacc.nche.edu/Resources/aaccprograms/pastprojects/Pages/studentaccessinccs.aspx
narciso (d1f714) — 9/25/2016 @ 4:56 pmI’m sorry to see the bitterness and malice have not eased, as I thought.
See you after the election.
Mike K (dc2d28) — 9/25/2016 @ 5:02 pmMath:
DNF (ffe548) — 9/25/2016 @ 5:05 pm50. Excellent point, but this Cetin guy appears conflicted.
DNF (ffe548) — 9/25/2016 @ 5:15 pm33. “I’m not sure Jesus really wants you speaking for him.”
Sauce for the gander is good on the goose as well.
“Be a man and say what you mean”
Pfffftt.
DNF (ffe548) — 9/25/2016 @ 5:23 pmhouses of ill repute in atlantic city, well that’s never happened, except wasn’t there this show called boardwalk empire,
narciso (d1f714) — 9/25/2016 @ 5:34 pm33- Dustin, probably best you don’t judge others faith. It opens yourself to similar judgment.
Trump said he doesn’t ask for forgiveness, he tries to live in a way where he doesn’t need to. I think this a perfectly sound way to approach Christianity.
As they say, read the whole thing.
Jesus died on the cross one time for all time. That act washed away all your sins for all time, through faith. Believe it and rest in your salvation, or don’t and keep begging for forgiveness in fear, but I assure you, Jesus is not going to bleed and die again every time you sin.
LBascom (c230be) — 9/25/2016 @ 5:35 pmthe cavalry covers for red queen,
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/federal-court-rules-ohios-voter-purge-unconstitutional/story?id=42343068
narciso (d1f714) — 9/25/2016 @ 5:36 pmwell that’s true, however continuing to sin, is the sign of a degenerate heart, we are all still sinners, that is the template that distinguishes us from the left, there us a certain class of crimethink that the left accepts as sin, not our catalog however,
narciso (d1f714) — 9/25/2016 @ 5:40 pmMy dream debate- the janitor has to perform mouth to mouth on grifter granny.
mg (31009b) — 9/25/2016 @ 5:41 pmBob23, yes hindsight is not all that we might hope. But the misdirection of the news to paint rosy pictures of the giant tyrannies was awful. I still remember the “yellow rain” incident in Laos, and the orchestrated campaign to downplay what was probably a bio-weapon test by the Soviets. It was only with the fall of the Soviet Union that we finally got a glimpse of the enormous scale of their biological warfare effort. And still we are always looking for the rosy interpretation of extremely violent and threatening behavior. We all just want to live peaceful lives, and self delusion seems to be the first step. Our understanding of social issues in America today is another topic that is intentionally benighted. We can’t even get honest quarterly GDP numbers from the government. And if we really wanted to understand employment, or the lack of employment, FICA receipts would tell an interesting tale. Instead we used private employment services and census data to fake it.
BobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 9/25/2016 @ 5:47 pmMike K., I have been indulging a habit, but I think you may have the right answer.
BobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 9/25/2016 @ 5:48 pmR.I.P. Arnold Palmer
Icy (0cb70b) — 9/25/2016 @ 5:52 pmremember when they talked up that brief ’91 recession’ as the ‘worst in 50 years, yet this downturn apparently doesn’t matter, except when it does, to excuse obama’s failed policies’
narciso (d1f714) — 9/25/2016 @ 5:53 pmDamn.
The passing of the great Arnold Palmer has brought genuine tears.
Those of us born in and familiar with Western Pennsylvania– Pittsburgh…. Latrobe [and it’s delicious Rolling Rock] hold a special kinship to this truly fine man. My late grandfather knew him in his prime. And I had the pleasure of watching him play at a U.S. Open. The hush as he putted remains etched in my mind.
The sport of golf and our nation has lost one of the few remaining Ambassadors of Goodness.
God bless you, Arnie.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/25/2016 @ 6:04 pmAll athletes that ever made money on a commercial owe The King a thank you.
mg (31009b) — 9/25/2016 @ 6:09 pmWas in his army in 5 decades.
mg (31009b) — 9/25/2016 @ 6:11 pm67. Relying on the reports of others, without verification, is of little use; as the Gipper said, ‘trust but verify’ concerning the enemy.
Well, #nevertrump, be they upright and honorable in their sight, have tossed the trust in with the table scraps and coffee grounds.
Benefit of the doubt is a thing of the past.
DNF (ffe548) — 9/25/2016 @ 6:15 pmhttp://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/09/breaking-explosion-rocks-malmo-sweden-hours-gun-attack-video/
DNF (ffe548) — 9/25/2016 @ 6:26 pmI think the cra revisions, the ‘nudge’ directed by doj and hud created the market for this boiler room of phony product, wallison, morgenstern, covered the play by play, the big short entirely misses this,
narciso (d1f714) — 9/25/2016 @ 6:31 pmBobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 9/25/2016 @ 5:47 pm
It was not a bio-weapons test – it was serious metropocide, just like what they did later in places in Afghanistan, and Saddam Hussein did with the Kurds in 1988 and Quaddafi threatened to do in Benghazi in 2011, and which is now a possibility in Aleppo, if the world turns very unfriendly both 1) to the admission of Syrian refugees (if western countries are against admittiung refugees, they won’t get into Turkey) and 2) intervention against Assad in the Syrian Civil war.
The attempt to collect samples in Laos sort of failed – it was a mist. It didn’t congeal. The yellow stuff they collected wass mostly bee pollen – but it actually did contain some chemnicals.
It’s gone down in academia as unfounded, but it wasn’t.
Sammy Finkelman (3915d0) — 9/25/2016 @ 6:34 pmwhat color is the moon on your world usuul,
https://twitter.com/jamestaranto/status/780215651352846337
narciso (d1f714) — 9/25/2016 @ 6:36 pmALEPPO, [American Led Emergency Partial Peace Option] (as Gary Johnson might put it) is falling apart, and never had a chance. It was designed only to delay any independent western or NATO led help.
Sammy Finkelman (3915d0) — 9/25/2016 @ 6:37 pmThere is a question how much repeal of Glass Steagal did – most of the actors were not commercial banks.
Sammy Finkelman (3915d0) — 9/25/2016 @ 6:38 pmbesides snarky bloggers, how many actual live people read bezos,
https://twitter.com/iowahawkblog/status/780090642470805504
narciso (d1f714) — 9/25/2016 @ 6:39 pmWhat do anyone think is the matter with Donald Trump that he thought of, or spouted out about, putting ennifer Flowers in a seat in the front row of the debate, instead of Juanita Broderick?
Sammy Finkelman (3915d0) — 9/25/2016 @ 7:18 pmROTFL
Milhouse (7e779f) — 9/25/2016 @ 7:22 pmOther way around.
Milhouse (7e779f) — 9/25/2016 @ 7:23 pmI believe there were (Hillary orchestrated) attacks against Flowers. I don’t believe there were any against Broderick. If Bill raped her, what’s that got to do with Hillary?
Gerald A (76f251) — 9/25/2016 @ 7:23 pmNo, it wasn’t.
Milhouse (7e779f) — 9/25/2016 @ 7:25 pmCNN was called Clinton News Network back in the ’90s
Milhouse (7e779f) — 9/25/2016 @ 7:26 pmBut feets will want to know exactly what kind of sauce you’re using
Milhouse (7e779f) — 9/25/2016 @ 7:27 pmTrump lied about having opposed Iraq prior to the invasion. I don’t like his lying. OTOH, why does it matter whether he opposed it? It’s not like he was in a position to influence policy. Clinton’s lies are about things that happened under her watch. Apples and oranges.
Gerald A (76f251) — 9/25/2016 @ 7:31 pmAnyone have any ideas about what Trump’s debate strategy should be? He could try to appear “Presidential” or try to be very aggressive in attacking. My gut tells me he should do the former and reserving his attacks for countering her attacks.
Gerald A (76f251) — 9/25/2016 @ 7:43 pmThis is just not true.
Milhouse (7e779f) — 9/25/2016 @ 7:43 pmGerald, I’ll have you know my 82 year old mother opposed the war, too. I’m late in denouncing her.
Colonel Haiku (d0a528) — 9/25/2016 @ 7:45 pmhttp://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/tim-graham/2016/09/25/pbs-anchor-bummed-both-pundits-agree-looting-charlotte-helps-trump
DNF (ffe548) — 9/25/2016 @ 8:08 pmYou’re the troll, lardbutt. Is your new handle, Bob23, how many times you bob on Trump’s nob?
nk (dbc370) — 9/25/2016 @ 8:10 pmobjective reality is a problem for them
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/sep/25/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-campaigns-square-over/
narciso (d1f714) — 9/25/2016 @ 8:18 pmI saw that. The article mentions that one of the would-be robbers hit the delivery “boy” as hard as they could, and he didn’t even move. That’s a sign you should RUN. FOR. YOUR. LIFE.
Bill H (971e5f) — 9/25/2016 @ 8:26 pm“24. If it splits right down the middle there’s an opening for Mcmullin if he at least carries Utah.”
Carries? You mean like with a basket?
McWhoeverheis will be doing good if he breaks 3 digits. Votes. Total.
What I’m most wondering is if he’ll get more votes than Mickey Mouse. I’d bet not.
fred-2 (ce04f3) — 9/25/2016 @ 8:32 pmOOT: http://luckypeach.com/opusculum-maillard-reactions/
Browning food like seared steak.
DNF (755a85) — 9/25/2016 @ 8:38 pmI will be surprised if Lester Holt does poorly. For a journo he seems adult.
DNF (755a85) — 9/25/2016 @ 8:44 pmIf Clinton tries the “Trump will start a war” theme, he should equate himself with Reagan and Clinton with Carter. Carter’s main line of attack was that Reagan would start a war, which Reagan demolished with his memorable “There you go again” line. Since this isn’t the foreign policy debate maybe she won’t try that tomorrow.
Gerald A (76f251) — 9/25/2016 @ 8:45 pm99. The third party options are becoming invisible. We’ve got experience with dopers in the WH.
DNF (755a85) — 9/25/2016 @ 8:48 pm102. What is the focus of this debate?
DNF (755a85) — 9/25/2016 @ 8:49 pmSpeaking of the Dope, he’s looking for a “serious discussion between Xianity and Islam.”
All the bombings and shootings are not serious enough.
DNF (755a85) — 9/25/2016 @ 8:52 pm106. ‘Tis the season of #wrongwaywitch. I expect a coarse brawler hopped up on pharma.
DNF (755a85) — 9/25/2016 @ 8:58 pmInstead of talking about the debate, let’s discuss how Ted Cruz was insulted six months ago. Because that will surely solve the problems of tomorrow.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/25/2016 @ 9:00 pmAfter the debates, win or lose, we prolly won’t see much of Great Aunt Bernice. Risk of seizure,
DNF (755a85) — 9/25/2016 @ 9:01 pm108. And give in to effete chuckleheadedness? Surely you gest. Erik the fat oink grandiosity?
I’ll pass.
DNF (755a85) — 9/25/2016 @ 9:05 pmchildbirth is going down, so are ipo’s despite gazillions of dollars to investment banks, lone wolves are moving at a good clip, jay vee franchises are expanding everywhere,
narciso (d1f714) — 9/25/2016 @ 9:10 pmSome surprising upsets this week, led by MN over Charlotte.
DNF (755a85) — 9/25/2016 @ 9:13 pmAnd your’e the kind of fool who believes everything he reads. Any so-called doctor who presumes to diagnose someone without examining them or even seeing their medical records is by definition incompetent or lying, and anyone who takes such a person’s pronouncements seriously is a fool.
Milhouse (7e779f) — 9/25/2016 @ 10:33 pm@44- We used to be able to turn on Walter Cronkite, Peter Jennings, Huntley Brinkley, etc., and get actual facts and news, but no longer.
Depends on who was Managing Editor as in Cronkite’s era, that’s who decided the stories covered in the broadcast. (In cable today, the News Director tends to call the shots for the on air talent.) And remember, news was a loss-leader in Cronkite’s time, not a profit center. Cronkite made sure he held the title of M.E. His personal politics were pretty much veiled in his time as anchorman as well- aside from his commentary on Vietnam, clearly labeled as such; and his boyish cheerleading covering the space shots– (which if you’ve ever seen any of it on YouTube, seems totally biased- but quaint, 50 years on.)
Huntley and Brinkley split news beats with Brinkley in Washington and Huntley in NY– and Brinkley left NBC some years later in a management dispute, after Huntley retired and died. It was Jennings”World New Tonight’ that began the slide of content and blending of entertainment with hard news for perennial third place ABC. With profits and ratings as the focus– ABC News was placed in the hands of Roone Arledge to make news in the 1980s a profit center as he’d done w/ABC Sports. Lots of graphics and ‘color men’… similar production values — and it worked. At the cost of content.
What you miss is the time when news wasn’t a profit center and the Fairness Doctrine was in place. Those days are long gone, never to return.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/26/2016 @ 12:57 amTrump will cross examine the biotch as no one else has. She will yell and scream and cough blood.
mg (31009b) — 9/26/2016 @ 1:36 am114. Glass houses..stones.
Top men:
https://www.rt.com/usa/360317-carter-dunford-syria-russia-senate/
DNF (755a85) — 9/26/2016 @ 3:41 amFailed state worser still:
http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-mexico-peso-20160924-snap-story.html
DNF (755a85) — 9/26/2016 @ 3:44 amMensch:
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2016/09/sheriff-david-clarke-takes-down-drunk.html#more
DNF (755a85) — 9/26/2016 @ 3:55 amFour more years! Together!
DNF (755a85) — 9/26/2016 @ 4:00 amcia pooftertrash like pappy bush, their loyalties are first to class not country
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/26/2016 @ 4:07 amChurchill: “A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.”
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/09/the_mark_of_soros_charlotte_north_carolina.html
#nevertrump = congenital pantslessness
DNF (755a85) — 9/26/2016 @ 4:19 amRegretably they have become the house of usher for the age
narciso (d1f714) — 9/26/2016 @ 6:50 amIf one is charitable call them the metelli whose time has come and gine, like the Rockefellers before them.
narciso (d1f714) — 9/26/2016 @ 6:56 amOr the ghibbelines or guelph.
narciso (d1f714) — 9/26/2016 @ 7:05 am89. Gerald A (76f251) — 9/25/2016 @ 7:31 pm
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/26/2016 @ 12:50 pmTrump hesitantly endorsed a future invasion of Iraq in September 2002, saying “I guess so” when asked about it.
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donald-trump-and-the-iraq-war/
Then, two months before the March 2003 invasion, he publicly indicated in January 2003 that President George W. Bush should have been more focused on the economy than on Iraq.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/sep/07/donald-trump/trump-repeats-wrong-claim-he-opposed-iraq-war/
According to a February 2016 statement by Sean Hannity, “I battled him at the time. He did not want us to go to Iraq. He was dead set against it.”
http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/2016/02/16/gingrich-americans-migrating-away-from-dealmaking-center-supreme-court/
Hannity says Trump opposed an invasion of Iraq during telephone calls following Hannity’s show.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/09/19/donald-trump-says-he-voiced-his-iraq-war-opposition-to-sean-hannity/?utm_term=.932c409506d5
So, I think it’s fair to say that by the time of the invasion Trump was totally against it, if Hannity is to be believed. If Hannity is not believed, then Trump merely hinted publicly that Bush ought not to do it.
(comment cross posted at Redstate!)
Andrew (7e4f95) — 9/26/2016 @ 10:03 pm@130- Really doesn’t matter what his musings as a private citizen were as they had no consequences, cost nobody a dime or anybody their live.
Her vote after extensive classified briefings as a U.S Senator for the war cost thousands of lives and billions of dollars.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/26/2016 @ 10:08 pmthere were plenty of unexploded chemical munitions, that coalition forces encountered, re wikileaks and confirmed by cj chivers reporting, so it was likely more true than not, what they hadn’t fully gauged was the salafization of the baathists, the base of the insurgency,
narciso (d1f714) — 9/26/2016 @ 10:14 pm5. I wrote on 9/25/2016 @ 12:29 pm
It looked a little like this, but this is actually wrong.
The locus classicus is the Clinton campaign. It successfully pushed this story on to four publications, but whenever this story got cited further only one place was cited.
This story was successfully sold to the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, the Washington Post and Politico, all of which had somewhat different versions of the same thing
The Clinton campaign released a list of Trump lies on Friday, September 16, 2016 that ran to 19 pages. Now probably they had privately released it, or something similiar, to several news organizations before.
Each of them probably did their own verification, and maybe used some and discarded other. resding between the lines of the New York Times it is clear there were some “lies” it discarded. Maybe they even added some of their own who knows, but they never credited the Hillary Clinton campaign, which was probably the original source taht inspkired the article.
They succeeded i
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/28/2016 @ 12:08 pm