Patterico's Pontifications

The McClatchy Washington Bureau, an ICIJ participant, reported in April that while the Panama Papers have revealed direct connections with the Mossack Fonseca law firm in Panama – including ties to Marc Rich, the international fugitive pardoned by Clinton in his final days in office and to firms tied to Ng Lap Seng, the Chinese billionaire implicated in a major Democratic Party fundraising scandal while Clinton was president – the Clintons themselves do not appear as Mossack Fonseca law firm clients.

“The Clintons themselves do not appear to be in Mossack Fonseca’s database, nor does it appear that their daughter, Chelsea, or her husband, Marc Mezvinsky, who co-founded a hedge fund, are listed,” the McClatchy Washington Bureau reported.

“But Bill and Hillary Clinton’s connections to people who have used offshores is fuel for her Democratic rival, Bernie Sanders.”

While the transactions identified in an ICIJ database search correspond to records that detail the nature of the transactions, the ICIJ has not typically released transactional details because of concerns over privacy laws in the various jurisdictions, including the United States. So, for instance, while it’s known that WJC LLC is associated in the Panama Papers database with thousands of transactions recorded in the ICIJ database, WND is unable to determine if the transactions involved Bill Clinton personally or only associates of Bill Clinton.

A database search for Clinton Global Initiative reveals what appear to be Clinton-affiliated entities registered offshore, such as Clinton Development Company S.A., a company incorporated in 1996 by Mossack Fonesca in the small South Pacific island nation of Niue (deactivated Dec. 16, 1999); Clinton Investments Limited, incorporated by Mossack Fonesca in the British Virgin Islands in 1990 (deactivated May 23, 1991); Clinton Holdings Limited, incorporated by Mossack Fonesca in the British West Indies in 1989 (deactivated April 30, 1993); and Clinton, Inc., incorporated by Mossack Fonesca in the Bahamas in 1993 (deactivated Jan. 3, 2001).
Similarly, a database search for Chelsea Clinton Investments lists Chelsea Enterprises Limited Company, incorporated in 2001 by Mossack Fonesca in Nevada (deactivated March 20, 2009); Chelsea Resort Ltd., incorporated by Mossack Fonseca in Seychelles in 2005 (deactivated Dec. 5, 2014); Chelsea Manor Ltd., incorporated by Mossack Fonesca in Seychelles in 2005 (listed as active); Chelsea House Ltd., incorporated by Mossack Fonseca in Seychelles in 2006 (deactivated Jan. 8, 2010); Chelsea Crystal Limited, incorporated by Mossack Fonseca in Seychelles in 2006 (deactivated Nov. 9, 2010); Chelsea International Limited, incorporated by Mossack Fonseca in 2001 (deactivated Dec. 20, 2002); Chelsea Holdings Overseas S.A, incorporated by Mossack Fonseca in Panama in 2007 (deactivated Jan. 6, 2010); and Chelsea Group Ltd., incorporated by Mossack Fonseca in 1994 (deactivated Oct. 9, 2014).
For most of these Mossack Fonseca-registered corporations using the “Clinton” name, shareholders are listed simply as “bearer,” a designation that does not permit identifying with certainty whether the parties backing the formation of the corporation were the Clinton family, a Clinton family designee or an unrelated third party simply exploiting the Clinton name.

Yet, there is evidence within the ICIJ database that Clinton-formed corporations have offshore banking connections.

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:52 am

Remember when we started #NeverBush over Medicare Part D, and purged Bush voters from the Republican Party? That was awesome.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:57 am

yes yes that is brilliant politics

everyone knows at the end of the day failmerica’s a brokedick joke and medicaid losers will get fourth rate rationed government “care” in filthy government hospitals like those poor veterans

this is a great way to blunt the pig

you gotta blunt that piggy a little every day

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:59 am

speaking of brilliant politics

stinkypig tried so so hard to arrange for the smallest debate audience possible by scheduling them against nfl games

now kaepertwat’s tanking the nfl ratings

and everyone wants to see the debates to see if stumblepig will have an episode

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:01 am

“Nobody mention EMTALA to him. (Look it up.)”

This is the reason the old model insurance system was unexeptable and lead to constant government intervention culminating in Obamacare. Uninsured people use the emergency room as their primary healthcare provider, which is outrageously inefficient, and expensive. Plus it throws a wrench in the whole purpose of emergency care for those experiencing an emergency. Ever had an accident and visited one lately?

You don’t really think you aren’t paying for those people anyway, do you? Hospitals raise their costs to cover the expense, and insurance companies raise their rates to pay for the added costs. Then that drives more people from affording insurance, so they use the emergency room instead, creating a vicious cycle. That is the problem Trumps plan, which is mainly a return to employer provided private insurance system, addresses with the provision for those that are uninsured.

This, along with reforming insurance laws to create more competition, will lower the costs of medical care across the board, and be a net gain for the people in costs and quality of care.

That’s the rationale anyway.

LBascom (436b69) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:14 am

also this isn’t anything new what Mr. Trump is saying Mr. Patterico

he was saying this even as he was handing sore loser harvardtrash ted a humiliating defeat in the primaries earlier this year

meanwhile we know the diseased stinkypig already tried once to get her pig stench all up in the healthcare system

all secret-like behind the closed doors of her sty

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:27 am

One other point I think this issue and Trump really highlights.

There is an old saw, if you aren’t a liberal in your youth, you have no heart, if you aren’t a conservative when you grow up, you have no brain. This is all well and true, but I think over time something has been lost in the telling, to the detriment of conservatives. You aren’t supposed to trade your heart for brains, you’re supposed to keep your heart and add brains.

Obamacare is bad because it’s a bad plan, likely designed to fail so single payer can be ushered in. It’s bad because it’s a top down government mandated and controlled monstrosity rather than a market controlled government regulated industry. But the fact is, the nations healthcare system is a public need that falls well within the general welfare of the people, and a totally private system is not sufficient in a world of communicable disease and unavoidable calamity.

I think too often, in discussing issues like this, conservatives and their quaint ideas for limited government come off as “let them eat cake”. Ya’ll need to recognize and have compassion for true need if you are to have any meaningful support. There are far better issues to attack than the options of sick and dying poor citizens of the country, like, say, the hundreds of billions in foriegn aid we throw away every year.

Trump is trying to get the people behind him in making America great again. Try not to sound like the clanging cymbal of One Corinthians 13:1…

LBascom (436b69) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:53 am

That’s cute. Someone who doesn’t believe the Bible is the Almighty’s Holy Word tries to use it against Christians and fails, again. The fact of the matter is: Those who believe the Government should spread the money around to the poor don’t believe they are personally responsible to do it out of their own pockets, while those who believe the Government has no business spreading money around to the poor believe they are personally responsible to help the poor out of their own pockets.

So you can take your clanging cymbal and shove it up your arse. Fool.

John Hitchcock (dfb418) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:03 am

also this isn’t anything new what Mr. Trump is saying Mr. Patterico

No kidding. Why is Patterico “reporting” this as if it’s new? Trump said this all throughout the primaries.

Denver Guy (4750ec) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:07 am

@LBascom: Uninsured people use the emergency room as their primary healthcare provider, which is outrageously inefficient, and expensive. Plus it throws a wrench in the whole purpose of emergency care for those experiencing an emergency. Ever had an accident and visited one lately?

In reality there is no magic pot of money here. This is one of the things I work on in my day job. The people who use the ER for every little thing because they are uninsured are a drop in the bucket of overall medical spending. Yes, you can say it’s so many millions per year or whatever, but that’s not large compared to what everyone is spending on everything. It might fund one extra office visit for every ten people.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:08 am

@John Hitchcock:, while those who believe the Government has no business spreading money around to the poor believe they are personally responsible to help the poor out of their own pockets.

Actually I don’t fall into either of your categories, I reject both propositions.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:10 am

Uninsured people use the emergency room as their primary healthcare provider, which is outrageously inefficient, and expensive.

Disagree. The thing that has made ER care so expensive is illegal immigration. When I was young and in my training, I became convinced that the big public hospitals, like LA County, did a good job of caring for the poor. Medicaid came in in 1965 and badly damaged the public hospitals because they were barred from charging for care. Medicaid would only pay for “private” care. I knew guys who quit their residencies and opened Medicaid mills. I knew two twin brothers who worked it out. One started the clinic and the other referred County patients to the MediCal mill.

That hurt the County hospital badly but the thing that really killed it was illegal immigration. I spent 50 years as an attending staff after I graduated from SC medical school. I’ve watched it happen.

Medicaid would be a good option now for the poor and then leave private insurance alone. What we really need is old style insurance that was actuarially sound, like we had in the 1950s. The cost problem came from prepaid care.

The theory of the “free rider” is what Heritage used to recommend a mandate but they decided the mandate was not a good idea. It would be OK if only catastrophic care was covered but politicians always overpromise.

Mike K (90dfdc) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:17 am

LBascom (436b69) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:14 am

Uninsured people use the emergency room as their primary healthcare provider, which is outrageously inefficient, and expensive.

No, it’s very efficient. It’s expensive because a lot of hospital overhead is charged to the emergency room. But there could hardly be something more efficient.

Plus it throws a wrench in the whole purpose of emergency care for those experiencing an emergency. Ever had an accident and visited one lately?

That’s the problem.

Now they have what are called “Urgent Care Centers” No appointment necessary, or one that can be scheduled the next day, and all insurance taken. They’re opening up everywhere.

You don’t really think you aren’t paying for those people anyway, do you? Hospitals raise their costs to cover the expense, and insurance companies raise their rates to pay for the added costs.

very little of what a hospital charges has any relationship to marginal costs. Everything a hospital does is divided into items that are profit making – highway robbery in fact – and other things on which they lose money. They make enormous profits in the hotel business. (the per bed cost) but if you were to cut days admissed, you’re not cutting expenses very much.

Then that drives more people from affording insurance, so they use the emergency room instead, creating a vicious cycle. That is the problem Trumps plan, which is mainly a return to employer provided private insurance system, addresses with the provision for those that are uninsured. The problem, as Rush Limbaigh and teh Heritage Foundation has pointed out, is insurance Only 12% of all medical costs are paid for by the person who incurs the bill.

There is no market. Prices are irrational.

We have this also with college tuition.

If somebody wants to find out what something will cost, they really can’t. And even when insured there can be surprise charges.

Things won’t work right until you get told prices without asking

But there are two problems:

1. Not everyone has the same amount of money, and we do wanttoequalize the ability to eget care and we do want insurance.

2. Not everybody has the same health needs.

Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:25 am

Forgot to close one blockquote.

It shold have appeared like this:

Then that drives more people from affording insurance, so they use the emergency room instead, creating a vicious cycle. That is the problem Trumps plan, which is mainly a return to employer provided private insurance system, addresses with the provision for those that are uninsured.

The problem, as Rush Limbaigh and the Heritage Foundation has pointed out, is insurance.

Only 12% of all medical costs are paid for by the person who incurs the bill.

There is no market. Prices are irrational.

That’s what needs to be fixed, yet in a way hat doesn’t hurt people.

Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:28 am

Now they have what are called “Urgent Care Centers” No appointment necessary, or one that can be scheduled the next day, and all insurance taken.

The chief problem with Urgent Care clinics is that they are not open 24 hours a day, and so when people need them in the middle of the night, they end up going to hospital ERs instead.

Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:29 am

Mike K (90dfdc) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:17 am

but the thing that really killed it was illegal immigration.

Combined with medical ethics. There is an obligation to treat but no obligation for anyone else to pay.

So keeping people out of the country so you wouldn’t have to treat them is better? We won’t let people die in the streets, but we will let them die in Mexico or Guatemala, or whereever, and we’ll make sure they stay there so we won’t have to treat them? This is worse than letting people die in the streets, because if they were here, but allowed to die in the streets, somebody might come along and pay for it!

Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:33 am

Most Urgent Care clinics are open at night but not after 10 or 11.

When I ran a trauma center we got the ER to open a walk-in clinic to shift the less urgent care away t=for the ER. A group of pediatricians then opened “Kids Care” in an office building next to the hospital and they took turns working there in the evening, That took most after hours peds care away from the telephone.

What we are beginning to see is real health care reform as more and more doctors drop ALL insurance and Medicare and go to cash practices. It’s limited in LA but Tucson, for example, has a lot of such clinics. Overhead goes down about 2/3 as most costs are for collecting insurance. That plus catastrophic care insurance would cover the middle class pretty well.

Mike K (90dfdc) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:37 am

we will let them die in Mexico or Guatemala,

You are welcome to support the world but not on my nickel.

Mike K (90dfdc) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:39 am

Uninsured people use the emergency room as their primary healthcare provider, which is outrageously inefficient, and expensive.

Disagree. The thing that has made ER care so expensive is illegal immigration. When I was young and in my training, I became convinced that the big public hospitals, like LA County, did a good job of caring for the poor. Medicaid came in in 1965 and badly damaged the public hospitals because they were barred from charging for care. Medicaid would only pay for “private” care. I knew guys who quit their residencies and opened Medicaid mills. I knew two twin brothers who worked it out. One started the clinic and the other referred County patients to the MediCal mill.

That hurt the County hospital badly but the thing that really killed it was illegal immigration. I spent 50 years as an attending staff after I graduated from SC medical school. I’ve watched it happen.

Medicaid would be a good option now for the poor and then leave private insurance alone. What we really need is old style insurance that was actuarially sound, like we had in the 1950s. The cost problem came from prepaid care.

The theory of the “free rider” is what Heritage used to recommend a mandate but they decided the mandate was not a good idea. It would be OK if only catastrophic care was covered but politicians always overpromise.

Mike K (90dfdc) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:17 am

At one time doctors in Los Angeles county were required to work one day a month at a county hospital. Illegal immigration has not only overburdened the ER system, according to the LA County health department they also brought in diseases like TB that had been eradicated. In Mexico they have socialized medical care for every Mexican citizen. I think we should bill Mexico for every illegal alien from Mexico that uses our healthcare system. Instead of providing welfare and free healthcare why not ship them back to Mexico where their “wonderful” socialized system can take care of them. Isn’t that the compassionate thing to do?

Tanny O'Haley (c674c7) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:02 am

So keeping people out of the country so you wouldn’t have to treat them is better? We won’t let people die in the streets, but we will let them die in Mexico or Guatemala, or whereever, and we’ll make sure they stay there so we won’t have to treat them? This is worse than letting people die in the streets, because if they were here, but allowed to die in the streets, somebody might come along and pay for it!

Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:33 am

But Sammy, they have socialized healthcare in Mexico and in many European (illegal aliens aren’t just from South America) and South American countries. Are you saying that private healthcare is better than socialized healthcare?

Why do you want to steal from me to pay healthcare for people who aren’t citizens. For that matter, why do you want to steal from me to pay for anyone’s healthcare?

They’ve found that Americans consistently give more to charity than socialized countries and that conservatives give more than progressives. The left gives less to charity because they believe it’s the government’s responsibility. In high tax countries they give less to the poor because it’s the government’s responsibility.

Tanny O'Haley (c674c7) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:17 am

Remember when we started #NeverBush over Medicare Part D, and purged Bush voters from the Republican Party? That was awesome.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:57 am

Instead of #NeverBush it was eventually called the TEA Party. That started while Bush was still President.

So, yes, this and other liberal excesses caused a backlash, and created the Taxed Enough Already Party.

But you demonstrate a fine point. Both the adherents of Hillaray! and the Donald have no principles. None whatsoever. The TEA Party was started when it was depressingly clear that the GOP had abandoned everything it professed to stand for, such as smaller government and fiscal responsibility.

It’s amazing that now in the age of Trump, where we’re supposed to have blind loyalty to our Fuhrer, that people like you, Gabriel, don’t even remember that even a decade ago the Fuhrer didn’t deserve our support unless they were adhering to our shared principles.

Good times, good times.

You apparently can’t conceive of such a thing. So the Trumpkins call anyone who actually believes in their principles #NeverTrump. Because to be a Trump supporter is to abandon principles. It’s not about the issues. It’s a cult. Trump can do an about face on any issue; he can come out in support for amnesty, open borders, or an “assault weapon” bans and his cultists will cheer. And then sneer at conservatives who aren’t cheering and call them Hillary! supporters.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:39 am

Tanny O’Haley (c674c7) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:02 am

I think we should bill Mexico for every illegal alien from Mexico that uses our healthcare system.

It makes more sense than billing them for a wall. Subtract servies and cut rate price medicines provided to Americans.

Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:43 am

I just arranged a hip replacement today on a State Employee insurance plan.

I kinda think that would be difficult a couple few years into the future. A simple solution has not popped into view.

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:47 am

@Steve57:people like you, Gabriel

Are you addressing a different Gabriel? I voted for Ted Cruz.

I don’t have any loyalty to the Donald, nor do I expect anyone else here to have. What I do expect is that they stop saying that holding their breath until they turn blue is the way to fix the problems that brought us the Donald.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:48 am

@Steve57:Trump can do an about face on any issue; he can come out in support for amnesty, open borders, or an “assault weapon” bans and his cultists will cheer. And then sneer at conservatives who aren’t cheering and call them Hillary! supporters.

You are describing exactly how progressives have dealt with the candidates they supported. And they got what they wanted out of it. Sorry to bang on about gay marriage but for 6 Presidential elections every Democratic candidate went on record against it. The progressives voted for them anyway, and got what they wanted.

#NeverTrump is the stupidest element of the Party of Stupid, partly because it thinks it’s smart.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:51 am

@Steve57:And then sneer at conservatives

I do but not for the reason you invented and ascribed to me. I sneer at people who claim to believe in something, and refuse to do what is necessary to even see a slim chance of making it come to pass, because their souls are so pure they can’t sully themselves to support the most conservative electable candidate.

Your participation in a protection racket–which is what government is–is not noble. It is excusable. You are making moral tradeoffs continually. So if you want to see what you want done, when the electorate does not favorite, do what the progressives did and find someone to work with who will advance your issue in exchange for your support.

Instead of throwing a tantrum, and trying to get the Republican party to overrule all its primaries, or throw the vote into the House so they can pick someone the people never had any say in at all.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:55 am

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:51 am

Sorry to bang on about gay marriage but for 6 Presidential elections every Democratic candidate went on record against it.

Against, or rather not in favor of, doing it legislatively at the current time.

Everyone who followed this sort of thing knew it might be done through court interpretations. They aren’t honest about the courts.

Opponents agreed not to point out about the courts, because there’s still some kind of pretense the decisions on isues like this are arrived at impartially.

Doma was an attempt to avoid arguments for a Constututional amendment to preclude courts from doing something. Any reasonable person would have known this couldn’t work.

Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:01 am

What Steve said.

The great irony of the past eight years is that the failure of the TEA Party to affect Republican policy is now taken as proof that conservative principles are ineffective.

If every marine, soldier or sailor in WWII, Korea, or Vietnam had the knowledge, courage and conviction of our political class, every battle, every fleet action, every attempt to work in concert on a difficult problem, would have failed. We expect more from an 18 year old recruit than from any politician.

BobStewartatHome (b41b89) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:01 am

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:55 am

throw the vote into the House so they can pick someone the people never had any say in at all </blockquote. If the vote is thriown into the House, the people did have a say.

In Chile in 1970 it was thrown into their Parliament, but they didn't do what they should have done.

Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:03 am

And who was responsible for the extermination of the Tea Party? Clues needed?

Nation’s largest police union endorses Trump…

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/296342-nations-largest-police-union-endorses-trump

Colonel Haiku (ede614) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:04 am

http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2016/09/the-point-of-inflexion-and-awakening.html?m=1

21. Believing in principles is rather superfluous if you’re dead, locked up in debtors prison, or otherwise denied your freedom.

#nevertrump will not believe in realities, only principles, hypotheticals, and pretenses.

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:08 am

@Sammy Finkelman:Everyone who followed this sort of thing knew it might be done through court interpretations.

Yes, and who got to appoint people to courts? Politicians who got voted into office. And would they have supported progressive judges if progressives had refused to deliver votes? No.

If the vote is thrown into the House, the people did have a say.

Horsecrap. Trump has the nomination because Republicans do not believe this. And I don’t see how you get that a direct vote has LESS of “the will of the people” in it. You might as well say that the Electoral College vote represents the people “having a say”, or the 5-4 votes from the Supreme Court, at that point.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:16 am

30.
So the GOP has found a public sector union it likes?

kishnevi (870883) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:16 am

@kishnevi:So the GOP has found a public sector union it likes?

I lived in Wisconsin during the Walker recall. The act that barred collective bargaining for public sector unions explicitly exempted cops and firefighters.

Remember when we had #NeverWalker over that, and purged his supporters from the Party? That was awesome.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:19 am

Donald Trump doesn’t embrace the ideological principles of movement conservatives.
So let’s enable illary Clinton to become President, because she embraces fewer of the ideological principles of movement conservatives.

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:20 am

“At one time doctors in Los Angeles county were required to work one day a month at a county hospital.”

That must have been well before my time because I never heard of it. A lot of us volunteered and USC and CME( now Loma Linda) ran the hospital medical services for many years.

I have been told by old timers that a lot of Los Angeles doctors denigrated the hospital to their private patients because they feared the competition. When I was in training, one of the Surgery professors and the chief of Radiology had both been born at County.

Mike K (90dfdc) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:21 am

Since Hillary Clinton was thrown like a sack of potatoes into a van after collapsing from being “overheated” on a pleasant low-temperature, low-humidity New York day, widespread panic has taken hold of the Democratic Party. What if she really doesn’t have the “stamina,” as Donald Trump put it, to make it to November? Well, Rasmussen asked Democrats who they’d choose as her replacement and learned a few revealing things.

By far the most popular choice was Clinton’s former rival, “democratic socialist” Sen. Bernie Sanders, who earned nearly half of the votes (48%). Coming in a distant second was Vice President Joe Biden (22%), followed by Clinton’s running mate, Virginia Senator Tim Kaine (14%). The remaining 9% said they didn’t like any of those choices.

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:21 am

#nevertrump will not believe in realities, only principles, hypotheticals, and pretenses.
No. It’s more a matter of realizing that Trump is both a statist and would be a disaster as a president through sheer incompetence.
If the Trump voters wanted a statist to get the nomination, couldn’t they have at least found a statist who was competent about it.

Mind you, if you think of Clinton Inc being a business, then Hillary and Bill have been far more successful businesspeople than Trump ever was.

kishnevi (870883) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:23 am

It’s not common knowledge that Donald Trump was, in fact, a democrat for most his life. My parents sort of assumed he was a lifelong republican.

And this “can’t let people die on the streets” talking reveal the guy to be a typical leftist. No one dies on the streets because they lacked coverage. My parents were on healthynet LA (I could be off on the name) for years prior to medicaid expansion. My mom gets a few hundred dollars a month for taking care of my grandmother. And now all of them are on medicaid / medicare. The lower middle class always got enough financial support for healthcare.

Not that many people are mortally ill. And if you are, then America is the place to be. There are like a handful of places in Korea or Japan that can REALLY be trusted to treat cancer. Those ultra cheap MRIs and doctor’s visits are a wonderful treat you get for 5 bucks a gallon of gas and government control on healthcare prices.

lee (246fe2) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:24 am

http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/09/16/man-attacked-nyc-cops-meat-cleaver-turns-muslim/

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:26 am

Remember when we had #NeverWalker over that, and purged his supporters from the Party? That was awesome.

Counterargument for Walker: the voting fraud law he got passed in Wisconsin is the only one (to my my knowledge) which addressed in any substantial way the real problem in voting fraud: absentee and other forms of mail-in ballots. Compared to which people showing up with fake IDs on election day is trivial.

kishnevi (870883) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:26 am

@kishnevi:It’s more a matter of realizing that Trump is both a statist

Compared to which of the other Republican candidates?

couldn’t they have at least found a statist who was competent about it.

If you actually oppose statism, you should pray for the election of incompetent statists, since the things they try will fail. And if they are listening when you propose your non-statist alternative and save their bacon, they’ll want to do more of your ideas.

But if instead you spend all your time peeing all over him and his supporters, don’t be surprised if he refuses to listen to you.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:27 am

@kishnevi:Counterargument for Walker:

What did you think about his love of and support from police and firefighter unions? #NeverWalker time? Because you seemed to think it was an indictment of Trump and his supporters that the cops support him so why not Walker then?

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:29 am

And now all of them are on medicaid / medicare

And did they actually spend down their assets to get under the limits for eligibility? Or did they go through the legal and financial rigarmaroles to keep that from happening but still allowing them to claim eligibility (which is what most middle class people).

kishnevi (870883) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:30 am

Which of these three principles are you willing to trade away:

1. Individuals are endowed with Rights as enumerated in the Declaration of Independence.
2. The government is to ensure a Rule of Law that applies equally to all individuals.
3. Our political regime is based on the idea of a Republic with legislative, executive, and judicial power vested in separate branches of government and each acts to restrain over-reach by another branch.

We’ve pretty much dispensed with 3. And item 2 has been shown to be inoperative, political power trumps everything else. Item 1 is being transmuted into entitlements that are granted by the government, and those archaic “rights” that allowed us think and act for ourselves are being trampled simply to ensure the continued reelection of our political class and the ever increasing concentration of power in the District of Columbia.

The discussion of principles may be archaic, but absent these principles how on earth can we expect to correct the travesty that now parades around as our government.

BobStewartatHome (b41b89) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:31 am

Look I am second to none in my contempt for Donald. It’s just that the time for that is over. The primaries are done. There is no chicanery or do-over that is going to change who the Republicans picked.

Either make the best of it, like a mature adult, to accomplish the goals you claim are so important to you, or hold your breath until you turn blue.

The electorate does not want what you want. You need to work with a person they do want, or your ideas will never get implemented.

Conservatives lost. None are on offer. Even the Libertarians are for carbon taxes and against guns.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:32 am

Gabriel, I was pointing to the GOP’s real rationale: it was not against public sector unions, only public sector unions that support Democrats. Applies not merely to Walker and Trump.

But I was pointing out an instance in Walker was actually verifiably better than the rest of the GOP, by going after something substantial and not merely symbolic.

kishnevi (870883) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:33 am

38. Sorry, that ship has sailed.

39. This is a false dilemma, ‘that Trump will not solve our problems’ is sufficient reason to wash our hair instead of voting for him.

The next term will indeed be the worst of our natural lives. As the remaining possiblities are lain out before us, Trump will be the least worst.

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:33 am

39. lee (246fe2) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:24 am

It’s not common knowledge that Donald Trump was, in fact, a democrat for most his life. My parents sort of assumed he was a lifelong Republican.

He was only a Democrat for 8 years. He became a Democrat during the Bush Administration, most likely because if he were to run for president in 2004, he couldn’t run as a Republican. The Governor of New York was a Republican too at that time, and remained so till after the 2006 election.

He became a Republican again in 2009, when Obama became president. And by this time the Governor of New York was a Democrat.

He was a lifelong Republican until 1999, when he changed to the “Independence” party, possibly intending to regiser “Independent” but New York State doesn’t have such a designation, but only something like no party. In 1999 he was planning to run for the nomination of Ross Perot’s “refor Party, which was valuable because it would get federal matching funds and maybe was on the ballot on some states. That was his most serious effort to run for something till this election.

In 2011 he switched to no party, but switched back to Republican in 2012.

Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:34 am

47. Walker was my initial pick. He proceeded to go whole hog Establishment with a change electorate. What I thought did not matter. Buh bye.

One by one all of these governors succumbed. Spilt milk.

DNF (ffe548) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:39 am

The next term will indeed be the worst of our natural lives. As the remaining possiblities are lain out before us, Trump will be the least worst.
You hope, based on little or no evidence.
I, based on the “preponderance of the evidence”, to borrow a legalese phrase, believe he may well be the worst worst.

kishnevi (870883) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:44 am

46. Well put.

HRC’s unfitness for office could lead TFG or Congress to postpone the election and give #nevertrump a ninth life but the result will be chaos, ibn Dunham’s singular legacy at a zenith.

Despite its hue and cry, “PRINCIPLES!!!”, #nevertrump is nothing but a protracted temper-tantrum.

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:46 am

51. Apart from narciso I supply more evidence than any, and more than #nevertrump en toto.

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:48 am

Let’s be honest here: if the federal government is going to see to it that everyone who needs health care receives it, then all we are debating is how best to deliver that care. If we are not going to have the government see to it that everyone who needs health care gets it, then some who need it will not get it, and will suffer, or even die, due to the lack.

Now, I am perfectly willing to see that happen! But I’m also one of the few people who are willing to admit it, in public. If you are unwilling to see people suffer or die due to the lack of health care, then you should admit, honestly and directly, that you support some sort of universal health care coverage, and that all of the debates over Obysmalcare are simply on how best to provide it.

The coldly realistic Dana (f6a568) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:50 am

30.
So the GOP has found a public sector union it likes?

kishnevi (870883) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:16 am

Are you anti-police? They need all the support they can get. And so do people working against the Ascension of Mrs. Bill Clinton.

Colonel Haiku (ede614) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:55 am

Are you anti-police? They need all the support they can get
No. I am merely pointing out that the GOP is not really against public sector unions. They are merely against public sector unions who support the Democrats.

There is the point that police unions are one of the biggest problems in removing “bad” cops, meaning the ones who should be kicked off the force*. But that is merely one aspect of the problem with public sector unions, not an aspect of problems with the police.

*And it’s a point that can be usefully used with any Progressive who complains about police brutality and/defends public sector unions: Don’t you know that it’s a public sector union that makes it nearly impossible to get rid of police brutality?

kishnevi (870883) — 9/16/2016 @ 12:19 pm

Apart from narciso I supply more cut and paste links from Zerohedge than any, and more than #nevertrump en toto.

FTFY.

Speaking of Zerohedge, what do Mr. Durden and friends think of Trump’s proposals to make the deficit grow even more–cutting taxes, increasing spending, and no spending cuts beyond defunding Planned Parenthood. However much the government gives PP, I don’t think it is enough to make a large dent in the national debt.

kishnevi (870883) — 9/16/2016 @ 12:24 pm

@The coldly realistic Dana:But I’m also one of the few people who are willing to admit it, in public.

Pleased to see someone else getting it! The constituency for that is like the constituency for gay marriage was in 1992. That constituency became large and powerful because it helped to win elections. It did not win elections because it was large and powerful. And it did not get large and powerful by refusing to help win elections when no one cared about its issue or was opposed.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/16/2016 @ 12:26 pm

57. and to support Kishnevi’s point, police departments in right-to-work Southern states tend to more quickly discipline, fire, and allow prosecution of police accused of excessive force than their northern counterparts.

urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 9/16/2016 @ 12:27 pm

I think stephen moore has suggested some departments that can be axed about that, the reality is the ‘austerity’ model that has been bandied about in europe, that raises tax mostly, and does some trimming of govt doesn’t work,

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 12:28 pm

..and whose to say that “PP minus abortion services” does not pop up sooner than later.

urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 9/16/2016 @ 12:28 pm

Minnie the Moocher gives televised speech for Hillary in Virginia. Plays race card.

“Affirmative-action, Will Robinson!”

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 12:31 pm

it’s not a question of cost, but it does suggest that sacrifices to moloch’s minions isn’t something we do together,

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 12:33 pm

this 500 million could have been better spent as well,

https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2016/09/16/shock-video-us-backed-moderate-free-syrian-army-rebels-threaten-to-kill-embedded-us-special-forces/

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 12:34 pm

troll level, grandmaster,

http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/16/media-outraged-after-trump-tricks-them-to-cover-endorsements-from-military-heroes/

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 12:38 pm

@54. Well said.

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 12:40 pm

The core problem with the U.S. system is quite basic: the primary objective is to turn a profit, not deliver healthcare. Once that is flipped, all will be right with the world.

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 12:44 pm

67. DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 12:44 pm

The core problem with the U.S. system is quite basic: the primary objective is to turn a profit, not deliver healthcare. Once that is flipped, all will be right with the world.

But profit msking companies, also deliver good services, if there just alittle policing, and competition.

Milton Friedman write that there are 4 ways to pay for things:

<< There are four ways in which you can spend money.

You can spend your own money on yourself. When you do that, why then you really watch out what
you're doing, and you try to get the most for your money.

Then you can spend your own money on somebody else. For example, I buy a birthday present for someone. Well, then I'm not so careful about the content of the present, but I'm very careful about the cost.

Then, I can spend somebody else's money on myself. And if I spend somebody else's money on myself, then I'm sure going to have a good lunch!

Finally, I can spend somebody else's money on somebody else. And if I spend somebody else's money on somebody else, I'm not concerned about how much it is, and I'm not concerned about what I get. And that's government. And that's close to 40% of our national income.

End of quotation.

Health Insurance is something like a combination of spending your own money on somebody else (a managed care organization may do that) combined with somebody spending somebody else’s money on somebody else (the government paying the premiums may do that)

Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 9/16/2016 @ 12:54 pm

DCSCA wrote:

The core problem with the U.S. system is quite basic: the primary objective is to turn a profit, not deliver healthcare. Once that is flipped, all will be right with the world.

Yeah, and that’s why we have almost instant care available, instead of long waiting lists like the UK and Canada, that’s why the US is the leader in medical and pharmaceutical advances, and that’s why people come to the expensive US for treatment; even a Canadian provincial premier came to the US for his heart surgery rather than the ‘free’ Canadian system.

The profit motive drives innovation, and drives businesses to work harder and do better. Take the profit motive out, and you get the same kind of [insert slang term for feces here] care you get in Japan.

In Canada, if you need an MRI, you can count on a wait of weeks or months; in the US we have such a surplus of machines that some companies have even advertised for people to come in for a ‘baseline’ MRI, all in pursuit of a profit.

We have already seen a single-payer system in the United States, in the VA Hospitals. The VA scandal was no surprise to me, because the VA was doing exactly the same thing that the NHS does in the UK, delaying treatment to save money.

The brutally honest Dana (f6a568) — 9/16/2016 @ 12:54 pm

alternate view of that press conference
http://reason.com/blog/2016/09/16/trumps-latest-birther-press-conference-s

kishnevi (870883) — 9/16/2016 @ 12:56 pm

We have already seen a single-payer system in the United States, in the VA Hospitals
That’s actually a single-provider problem–which is why the usual proposal to fix it involves vouchers or similar that allow vets to go to private MDs at government expense.

It’s aggravated by another factor, exemplified by this exchange I had with a Facebook friend just about the time the VA scandal began to surface. His wife is a vet (he is not), and needed heart surgery. She kept being bumped for surgery because other, more urgent cases, kept coming in, to his frustration.
me: You live in Cleveland. You have the Cleveland Clinic. Why don’t you take here there?
him: Yeah, but the VA care is free.

The surgery was eventually done at the VA, and was successful.

kishnevi (870883) — 9/16/2016 @ 1:02 pm

There’s a claim taht averagea ordinary people can’t recognize better quality medicine. Butsatistics show that they can – or at least they can recgnize poor quality medicine.

Because poor quality medicine makes bad predictions. (Or goes against people’s experience.)

Sammy Finkelman (329d95) — 9/16/2016 @ 1:03 pm

why were preexisting conditions put into the hmo bill, which apparently was needed after the medicare bill was passed.

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 1:08 pm

73
from a PR standpoint, because insurance companies overabused the pre-existing exception. They may not have been, in fact, but the MSM made sure we thought they were, with stories along the lines of “oh, we know that tumor was not discovered until a year after you started on our plan, but it had already started to develop before you signed up with us, so it is actually a pre-existing condition!”

The real problem, such as it was, was that people with chronic illnesses or conditions, faced a substantial coverage gap if they switched insurance.

kishnevi (870883) — 9/16/2016 @ 1:15 pm

@69. =yawn= Americans have instant everything. And often unnecessarily. They’re overmedicated, too. Which has been part of the problem.

There’s no substitute for experience. I lived in Britain for five years and the family experienced National Healthcare first hand. It works just fine. even when my folks tried to pay, they refused to accept it. The waiting was not an issue. And it will work just fine here some day. It is inevitable.

You confuse the cost of research with price of delivering care. Anecdotal example: a decade ago I took my aging mother to her doctor- got the bill- one OTC Tylanol tablet he gave her in his office- $21.

It’s a waste of time arguing with an American hell-bent on believing things should remain as they have been. Reagan opposed Medicare. Conservatives opposed Social Security, too. Some ay, when you reach a ‘certain age’ you’ll be glad you can access both. Perhaps you’re not there yet.

Vets say they’re content with the care- just not the bureaucracy of wait. That’s an administrative issue.

Obamacare saved my sight.

Took seven months from the start of the paperwork to perfect vision. But it worked at a time when I needed the bridge. And I thank God– and my fellow citizens for it.

Someday, you may too.

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 1:21 pm

“Hillary and Bill have been far more successful businesspeople than Trump ever was.”

By that standard, the Mafia is more successful than all of them.

It’s interesting to see the NeverTrump theme return. I guess I came back too soon.

Mike K (90dfdc) — 9/16/2016 @ 1:22 pm

within 5 years, they had already done that? how was that crony capitalism, but synergy,

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 1:22 pm

If the maineac bimbo votes no, obamacare never happens. Typical uni-party republican shill.

mg (31009b) — 9/16/2016 @ 1:38 pm

@69-postscript. Catch a doc titled ‘American Umpire.‘ The peak years for VA care for vets from our wars are explained well. WW2/Korea vet care peaked in the 80’s and trending down as you’d expect. We’re amidst the Vietnam curve. The projections for the Iraq/Afghan disasters are high and years to come. So for starts, a sure fire way to ‘cut costs’ at the VA is to stop engaging in the wrong– and long- conflicts.

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 1:41 pm

DCSCA wrote:

Obamacare saved my sight.

Took seven months from the start of the paperwork to perfect vision. But it worked at a time when I needed the bridge. And I thank God– and my fellow citizens for it.

Someday, you may too.

And when I needed cataract surgery, I had to wait a whole half week, because the ophthalmologist did his surgeries on Friday.

The Dana with 20/20 vision (f6a568) — 9/16/2016 @ 1:47 pm

@80- Betcha like instant oatmeal, too.

The wait didn’t bother me.

“So?” – Dick Cheney

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 1:51 pm

My daughter is married to a cop. I am against the police UNION. I am not against the police. The two are not the same thing.

John Hitchcock (dfb418) — 9/16/2016 @ 1:54 pm

DCSCA wrote:

Obamacare saved my sight.

Took seven months from the start of the paperwork to perfect vision. But it worked at a time when I needed the bridge. And I thank God– and my fellow citizens for it.

I have already said that I am fine with people who can’t pay for medical care not getting it, as opposed to universal health care, so I’ll say it again, brutally honestly: if you didn’t pay for health insurance, I wouldn’t care if you didn’t get your sight saved.

How did Obumblecare save your sight? Did you not have health insurance before that infernal law was passed? If not, why not? If you depended on my tax dollars to save your sight, you should have to explain why I should have to pay for your problems.

Yes, I admit it: I am an [insert slang term for the rectum here]. But at least I’m not an [insert slang term for the rectum here] with my hand in someone else’s pocket. I’m the [insert slang term for the rectum here] with other people’s hands in my pockets!

The very brutally honest Dana (f6a568) — 9/16/2016 @ 1:55 pm

@80– postscript– Both eyes in 3 1/2 days? Or just the one. Perhaps you’re seeing double and don’t realize it.

Difference is, I had no healthcare at the time. And it was my first surgical procedure in life. Once the paperwork was in place to establish coverage, my ophthalmologist did the examinations, set the dates; waited 21 days for the left; then 30 days later, the right. My guy does his procedures on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Lots of patients w/eye problems from the sun in sunny Califonia.

Regardless, Obamacare saved my sight.

So thank you, my fellow Americans.

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 2:01 pm

If you depended on my tax dollars to save your sight, you should have to explain why I should have to pay for your problems.

Reaganomics. Idiot.

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 2:02 pm

But at least I’m not an [insert slang term for the rectum here] with my hand in someone else’s pocket.

And there we have the ‘compassionate conservative’ in a nutshell.

Think about that to yourself as you go down the complete list of goods and services in your day to day life. In fact, you do, whether you care to believe it or admit it to yourself.

As I said, it is a waste of time arguing with Americans who resist the inevitable but will take advantage of both when they arrive. Reagan opposed Medicare. Conservatives opposed Social Security. Today they are the two most popular and essential programs with senior citizens. Tweak them. Work them. But they’re here to stay. So it will be one day with single-payer/nat’l healthcare in the U.S.

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 2:15 pm

so, john hypothetically, what protection would a cop face if he wasn’t in a union,

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 2:24 pm

Take the profit motive out, and you get the same kind of [insert slang term for feces here] care you get in Japan.

I can’t remember which YouTube channel, Rachel and Jun or Texan in Tokyo, but one of them said the Japanese hospital emergency rooms are closed afterhours and on weekends. They rotate which hospital is open during those times, and the rest are closed. So, you have to get your emergency injuries during weekday work hours or risk a super long delay in getting to the hospital that is open. And good luck if you actually drive to the wrong hospital. Not getting in.

But they have a great socialized medical care in Japan.

John Hitchcock (dfb418) — 9/16/2016 @ 2:24 pm

DCSCA, I rather doubt any of us need to thank you for your “contribution” as a citizen. For too many, it’s always about somebody else’s money. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Grasshoppers were said to play the fiddle. But that doesn’t count.

BobStewartatHome (b41b89) — 9/16/2016 @ 2:28 pm

remember this story,

http://legalinsurrection.com/2016/09/media-sues-fbi-to-reveal-how-agents-hacked-san-bernardino-shooters-phone/

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 2:40 pm

Nassim Taleb:

The Intellectual Yet Idiot is a production of modernity hence has been accelerating since the mid twentieth century, to reach its local supremum today, along with the broad category of people without skin-in-the-game who have been invading many walks of life. Why? Simply, in many countries, the government’s role is ten times what it was a century ago (expressed in percentage of GDP). The IYI seems ubiquitous in our lives but is still a small minority and rarely seen outside specialized outlets, social media, and universities; most people have proper jobs and there are not many openings for the IYI.

Beware the semi-erudite who thinks he is an erudite.

The IYI pathologizes others for doing things he doesn’t understand without ever realizing it is his understanding that may be limited. He thinks people should act according to their best interests and he knows their interests, particularly if they are “red necks” or English non-crisp-vowel class who voted for Brexit. When Plebeians do something that makes sense to them, but not to him, the IYI uses the term “uneducated”. What we generally call participation in the political process, he calls by two distinct designations: “democracy” when it fits the IYI, and “populism” when the plebeians dare voting in a way that contradicts his preferences. While rich people believe in one tax dollar one vote, more humanistic ones in one man one vote, Monsanto in one lobbyist one vote, the IYI believes in one Ivy League degree one-vote, with some equivalence for foreign elite schools, and PhDs as these are needed in the club.

More socially, the IYI subscribes to The New Yorker. He never curses on twitter. He speaks of “equality of races” and “economic equality” but never went out drinking with a minority cab driver. Those in the U.K. have been taken for a ride by Tony Blair. The modern IYI has attended more than one TEDx talks in person or watched more than two TED talks on Youtube. Not only will he vote for Hillary Monsanto-Malmaison because she seems electable and some other such circular reasoning, but holds that anyone who doesn’t do so is mentally ill.

The IYI has a copy of the first hardback edition of The Black Swan on his shelves, but mistakes absence of evidence for evidence of absence. He believes that GMOs are “science”, that the “technology” is not different from conventional breeding as a result of his readiness to confuse science with scientism.

Typically, the IYI get the first order logic right, but not second-order (or higher) effects making him totally incompetent in complex domains. In the comfort of his suburban home with 2-car garage, he advocated the “removal” of Gadhafi because he was “a dictator”, not realizing that removals have consequences (recall that he has no skin in the game and doesn’t pay for results).

The IYI is member of a club to get traveling privileges; if social scientist he uses statistics without knowing how they are derived (like Steven Pinker and psycholophasters in general); when in the UK, he goes to literary festivals; he drinks red wine with steak (never white); he used to believe that fat was harmful and has now completely reversed; he takes statins because his doctor told him so; he fails to understand ergodicity and when explained to him, he forgets about it soon later; he doesn’t use Yiddish words even when talking business; he studies grammar before speaking a language; he has a cousin who worked with someone who knows the Queen; he has never read Frederic Dard, Libanius Antiochus, Michael Oakeshot, John Gray, Amianus Marcellinus, Ibn Battuta, Saadiah Gaon, or Joseph De Maistre; he has never gotten drunk with Russians; he never drank to the point when one starts breaking glasses (or, preferably, chairs); he doesn’t know the difference between Hecate and Hecuba; he doesn’t know that there is no difference between “pseudointellectual” and “intellectual” in the absence of skin in the game; has mentioned quantum mechanics at least twice in the past 5 years in conversations that had nothing to do with physics; he knows at any point in time what his words or actions are doing to his reputation.

DNF (ffe548) — 9/16/2016 @ 2:45 pm

illary will expand Medicaid more than Trump.
So let’s enable her to win, all the while bashing Trump for expanding Medicaid.

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/16/2016 @ 2:51 pm

57. Doof, Zero Hedge is a news aggregator, like Insty, like Larwyn, like Real Clear, etc.

Google Breitbart, or Zero Hedge, or Doug Ross, etc., the links are 20 million per second, for this forum 200k.

Reading kishnevi’s opinions is as popular as drinking nightshade tea.

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 2:56 pm

Narciso, I have been in the teamsters union more than once, the sheet metal workers union for over 8 years, and more than one other union. Every time, I was required to be in those unions as part of my job. At no time did I wish to be in a union. At no time have I believed unions are good for the country, the people who do their jobs, or the people who pay for the jobs.

John Hitchcock (dfb418) — 9/16/2016 @ 2:58 pm

Reading kishnevi’s opinions is as popular as drinking nightshade tea.
DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 2:56 pm

I value DNF’s opinion about half as much as I value a Philippine 10 cent piece. (450 of them are required to carry the same value as a single US Dollar.)

John Hitchcock (dfb418) — 9/16/2016 @ 3:01 pm

i like his comments a lot they’re very good ones

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/16/2016 @ 3:03 pm

95. Sticks and stones.. but words aren’t your wheelhouse.

DNF (ffe548) — 9/16/2016 @ 3:04 pm

John Hitchcock (dfb418) — 9/16/2016 @ 2:24 pm

But they have a great socialized medical care in Japan.

Once they get their national health insurance, then they start trying to save money. They’ll do it every time. It happens in Canada, too.

There’s a time lag, though, between when the system s established, and when they start trying to save money.

Sammy Finkelman (1a8726) — 9/16/2016 @ 3:07 pm

Hat tip, Nick Lowe…

I made a #NeverTrumper squirm
And it felt so right
Supporting Dems like some turncoat worm
Wish they’d go fly a kite

They go on and on and on
They go on and on and on
They go on and on and on

Colonel Haiku (ede614) — 9/16/2016 @ 3:17 pm

Sammy Finkelman (1a8726) — 9/16/2016 @ 3:07 pm

Japanese socialized medicine is so comprehensive that so much of our US over-the-counter medications are available by prescription only in Japan. Great system, that socialized medicine thing. And medicine behind the Iron Curtain was horrendous. The free market, and profit motive is what makes health care great. Socialized medicine is what makes health care horrendous.

John Hitchcock (dfb418) — 9/16/2016 @ 3:20 pm

89. Fully half of America takes some form of transfer payment from the whole. In my case its Retirement Benefits. Mom makes twice my income with a teacher’s pension.

No one you can name is opposed to every transfer payment. Cherry picking may feel good but it is a cowards play.

We are on an unsustainable path and there will be pain.

DNF (ffe548) — 9/16/2016 @ 3:24 pm

David Brock is now the no trumpers latest hack to join ranks and expand the uni-party.
Cash money for anything, homey.

mg (31009b) — 9/16/2016 @ 3:28 pm

Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme that is not only doomed to fail, but by some metrics, has already failed. It’s also unconstitutional. So is every “transfer payment” that takes money from the wealth generators and gives it to the parasites.

John Hitchcock (dfb418) — 9/16/2016 @ 3:30 pm

@88. =yawn= Except you don’t.
@89. =yawn= Except you do, ‘bobstewartathome.

As previously noted, it’s a waste of time arguing with myopic conservatives over the inevitability of national healthcare. They will resist it to their graves- just like the metric system.

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 3:41 pm

Look I am second to none in my contempt for Donald. It’s just that the time for that is over…

Either make the best of it, like a mature adult, to accomplish the goals you claim are so important to you, or hold your breath until you turn blue.

The electorate does not want what you want. You need to work with a person they do want, or your ideas will never get implemented.

Conservatives lost…

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:32 am

Your attitude is not, therefore, that of a mature adult. You’re not facing all the facts. You are wishing away parts of reality. Supporting Trump, embracing Trumpism, is not “making the best of it.” It is conceding that not even conservatives took the founding principles of this country seriously.

What makes you fantasize that that our ideas will ever be implemented if we have to first admit we never took them seriously to get Trump elected? Why then should anyone take our ideas seriously, Mr. self-anointed mature adult, if first we have to demonstrate that not even we do?

Actually a mature adult recognizes that this country has been fundamentally transformed. And Trump will not be any sort of cure. He’ll just drive the bus over the cliff at 80mph as opposed to Hillary! “powering through” at 120mph.

Either way you are voting for the demise of the country.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 3:42 pm

Mr. Trump has a passion for making America great again and he’s not a diseased stinkypig (bonus)

advantage: Mr. The Donald

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/16/2016 @ 3:48 pm

Japanese socialized medicine is so comprehensive…

John Hitchcock (dfb418) — 9/16/2016 @ 3:20 pm

That there’s no air conditioning in many of the open wards where the peasants are treated. Have you ever tried to get through a summer on central Honshu without air conditioning? Healthy? Imagine if you were sick. Also, you’re screwed if you don’t have relatives who will bring you food, or wash your dirty laundry. The prime directive of government health care. Must. Keep. Costs. Down.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2008/11/15/national/82-year-old-woman-turned-away-by-five-hospitals-dies/#.V9x3fa2pnIU

…A number of cases have been exposed in Japan in which hospitals have refused to accept emergency patients mainly due to a lack of medical staff. In October, a pregnant woman in Tokyo was refused admission by eight hospitals and died three days after giving birth and undergoing surgery for a brain hemorrhage.

After receiving an emergency call at 11:21 p.m. on Feb. 5, the Koriyama-area fire department in Fukushima Prefecture dispatched an ambulance to pick up the woman, a resident of Koriyama, who was seized with cramps and vomited.

The fire department asked five Koriyama hospitals a total of nine times to accept the woman. But the hospitals refused to accept her, citing lack of empty beds or doctors.

The ambulance eventually transported the woman to Fukushima Medical University Hospital in the city of Fukushima, some 40 km from Koriyama. She fell unconscious and stopped breathing in the ambulance en route to the hospital.

Don’t worry, though. If you’re politically connected you’ll get a private, air conditioned room and great care.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 3:59 pm

@89- We are on an unsustainable path and there will be pain.

It’s quite sustainable as long as you accept re-ordering priorities for the new century. Unlikely to change long entrenched minds, though. More a generation thing. Like my late grandmother steadfastly refusing to buy a Japanese made TV set until, by 1969, she could no find one made in America she could afford. Her kids would ask her why, she’d say, ‘they bombed us.’ Her grandkids just shrugged.

Catch ‘American Umpire.‘

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 4:08 pm

he is cobalt 60 dense, we don’t have 100 trillion dollars to pay off the debt, so likely there will be triage, probably when my generation comes up for retirement, but likely before,

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/09/16/msnbc-politico-bloomberg-cnn-mcclatchy-confirm-hillary-clintons-2008-campaign-spread-birtherism/

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 4:41 pm

europe bought the welfare state as solution, and then tricked itself into below replacement population, went totally eloi, then invited the morlocks,

https://twitter.com/MarkSteynOnline?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 4:47 pm

@109. See ‘American Umpire.’ Really exposes Europe for the ’30 year old in the basement’ that it is– and Americans as parental enablers for same. JR lifted the rock. Maudie wants to stand on it. Long past due for this to change as the 2020’s approach.

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 4:52 pm

I have two relatives in the Radiology field and I hear lots of stories (in generalities of course).

A lot of them involve orders for gall bladder ultrasounds where it turns out the patient had it removed 25 years ago.

There is a disconnect between patients and insurance but also between a doctor and the patient’s insurance.

Maybe give the 15 year old girl a pregnancy test before you order the pelvic ultrasound. Check if she’s a virgin before you order the transvaginal ultrasound and call the tech in at 1am.

Pinandpuller (7b4baa) — 9/16/2016 @ 4:58 pm

102- parasites? See, that’s the cold hearted crap that makes most people reject limited government conservatism.

Maybe SS is unconstitutional, but it was created long before I was born and is not going anywhere soon. Call me a parasite if you want, but I’ve been working and paying into SS since 1977, and I don’t feel very parasitic about taking it in 2025 when I retire after paying into it for 48 years.

LBascom (c230be) — 9/16/2016 @ 5:09 pm

I don’t think SocSec will be there in 2025. At least not in any way that will support an upper level lower-class lifestyle in the US.

Food Stamps
Section 8 Housing
Medicaid
EITC that goes beyond paying back all the Federal Income Tax and SocSec and Medicare taxes paid in.
WIC
Which of those do not pump money to parasites?

It can be argued SocSec doesn’t go to parasites because the people receiving it paid in, but it can also be said that’s not fully accurate. The others I listed above, such is decidedly not the case.

But all of them have one thing in common: They are all unconstitutional.

John Hitchcock (dfb418) — 9/16/2016 @ 5:29 pm

it may well be that ’64 was the zero barrier election, in terms of a whole host of policies,

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 5:32 pm

> I don’t think SocSec will be there in 2025. At least not in any way that will support an upper level lower-class lifestyle in the US.

It already isn’t, if you are trying to live on Social Security (and nothing more) in many urban areas.

aphrael (e0cdc9) — 9/16/2016 @ 5:38 pm

@113.I don’t think SocSec will be there in 2025…

Sure it will.

@115. It already isn’t, if you are trying to live on Social Security (and nothing more) in many urban areas.

My 85 year old mother does. You live. But it’s a Motel 6, not a Waldorf lifestyle. Store names, not brand names; generic meds; more chicken, less beef, lots of salads and a rationale for gardening, too, which gets her outside. No new cars; keeps the old one running: more cost-effective. No more magazine subs– online reading only. When her cost of cable TV went up, she dropped her print newspaper. No cell or smartphones; landline only. Still uses the VCR; not the DVDs.

It’s trade offs. But you live.

Still, there’s little doubt that growing old in culture that’s youth-oriented really, really sucks.

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 5:55 pm

it’ just can’t it’s herb stein’s law, even with confiscatory taxes, it’s unsustainable,

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 5:59 pm

#104 Steve 57,

A presidential election is not about conservatism.
It’s about the two choices on the ballot.
One of them will become president.
Which one?

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/16/2016 @ 6:01 pm

Sort of OT but in the realm of supply, demand and preparing for emergencies it looks like Nashville will be completely out of gas within the hour.

Where’s my towel?

Pinandpuller (7b4baa) — 9/16/2016 @ 6:08 pm

@118. A presidential election is not about conservatism.

To zealots, myopics, and Archie Bunker-types, everything is about conservatism.

‘… and then there’s Maude! And then there’s Maude! And then there’s Maude.. Right On, Maude!’

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 6:12 pm

@119– Natural or high test?

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 6:13 pm

118
Door number 1 A statist authoritarian
Door number 2 An authoritarian statist

Door number 3 giving the median digit to the system that produces those two options.

Kishnevi (d097a6) — 9/16/2016 @ 6:21 pm

@122. Game show lingo.

See, Americans do not want to be governed. They wish to be entertained.

‘Ding, ding, ding..the Daily Double!’

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 6:23 pm

Frank R Stockton, actually.

Kishnevi (d097a6) — 9/16/2016 @ 6:32 pm

#122 Kishnevi,

Giving the middle finger is no more than an Occupation Wall Street expression of angst.

So after you’ve stood in the middle of Main Street (or Wall Street, for that matter) and expressed your angst, either Trump or Hillary will still become our next president.
So which one?

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/16/2016 @ 6:35 pm

@ Cruz Supporter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BZHig0Rrhs

‘Maude! You’re in my chair!’

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 6:45 pm

How long have the Philippians been minting coins? I guess only true Christians know that answer.

How many 10p will dance in the breech of a 3″ 12 gauge magnum?

Pinandpuller (7b4baa) — 9/16/2016 @ 6:46 pm

With economic revitalization, there will be less people who “fall through the cracks”, implying that Medicaid will become a reduced supplemental, not primary medical payment system. Economic revitalization is necessary but insufficient for comprehensive reform. The issue of global dependents will also need to be addressed, perhaps starting with our neighbors, notably Mexico.

n.n (bff3df) — 9/16/2016 @ 6:50 pm

the problem is you can’t just involve emtala, because that didn’t solve the problem, in fact it probably ’embiggened’ it, hence MassCare, one suspects single payer was the strategy all along,
the dems are always building additions to their goal, they didn’t give up when truman’s plan collapsed in 1949, just as after hillary care in 94, then they had kennedy/kassebaum, another helpful move,

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 6:50 pm

Forgive me Lord. Sometimes I have to kick against the pricks.

sometimes I have to kick against the pricks Pinandpuller (7b4baa) — 9/16/2016 @ 6:50 pm

btw, thessalonians, clearly points to post tribulation rapture,

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 6:52 pm

they never move on,

http://legalinsurrection.com/2016/09/wisconsin-john-doe-anti-conservative-witch-hunt-enters-new-level-of-sleaze/

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:01 pm

DCSCA

Todos. I don’t know if a car can run on Staybil but I’m fixin’ to find out.

State of Emergency declared.

sometimes I have to kick against the pricks Pinandpuller (7b4baa) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:08 pm

#104 Steve 57,

A presidential election is not about conservatism.
It’s about the two choices on the ballot.
One of them will become president.
Which one?

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/16/2016 @ 6:01 pm

I’m going to choose the one who promises to use the fine grit as opposed to the coarse grit sandpaper condom but I’m not going to kid myself about how royally f***ed we are and what this election means.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:10 pm

Remember when we started #NeverBush over Medicare Part D, and purged Bush voters from the Republican Party? That was awesome.

I’m pretty sure that Patterico suggested just that. A lot of us were WAY upset with Bush’s second term. It’s mostly why the GOP ate sh*t in 2006 and didn’t get a lot of support in 2008 either, with McCain.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:12 pm

Kevin, I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who spent the first decade of this century NOT SMOKING CRACK. Because I remember that. And now, Trump is supposed to be a good thing?

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:17 pm

How about this blog has #NeverGabriel?

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:20 pm

Remember when we started #NeverBush over Medicare Part D, and purged Bush voters from the Republican Party? That was awesome.

I’m pretty sure that Patterico suggested just that.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:12 pm

You have a much better memory than me. I don’t remember that at all.

Gerald A (76f251) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:20 pm

Remember when we started #NeverBush over Medicare Part D, and purged Bush voters from the Republican Party? That was awesome.

It’s mostly why the GOP ate sh*t in 2006 and didn’t get a lot of support in 2008 either, with McCain.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:12 pm

That makes absolutely no sense, given that Bush started Medicare Part D in his first term, and got reelected – I’m guessing with your vote going for him. Were all the people like you doing bong hits and didn’t realize he’d implemented Medicare Part D until 2006?

Gerald A (76f251) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:24 pm

well with due respect, we didn’t have the power to purge them from the party, however most of their factotums, gerson, fleischer, feherty, wallace, madden, murphy (need I go on) reacted poorly both the tea party and this current wave of unaffiliated,

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:25 pm

This is Euro conservatism, where everything takes a back seat to nationalist fervor, and beggaring your neighbors. And not a little bit of ethnic chauvinism. It’s why no two countries in Europe have the same electric wall plugs. For a while they had different railroad gauges.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:26 pm

The truly amazing thing about Trump supporters is that most of them are less ignorant than Trump.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:28 pm

Cursors!

So anyway, DCSCA, just to clarify a gas pipeline in AL burst. The SOE was declared to allow bulk drivers to exceed their normal driving hours.

I guess this is illustrative of our fragile infrastructure. And what happens when govt gets involved in price controls.

Gouging laws are counterproductive because people who actually need a commodity will gauge their need against the price.

People who don’t pay emergency room bills don’t evaluate their crisis against the price of treatment.

Pinandpuller (7b4baa) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:34 pm

well it’s not really about trump, as has been stated ad infinitum, but there are certain benchmarks he has promised, and that will be the benchmark,

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:36 pm

Medicare Part D went into effect in 2006. It was initially authorized in December 2003, but the vote was so close — and somewhat rigged — that it was not clear that it would survive the 2004 election. When it DID go into effect, it was one more nail into Bush’s political coffin.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:36 pm

Medicare Part D went into effect in 2006. It was initially authorized in December 2003, but the vote was so close — and somewhat rigged — that it was not clear that it would survive the 2004 election. When it DID go into effect, it was one more nail into Bush’s political coffin.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:36 pm

Now you’re just making things up. Did you vote for Bush in 2004 or not?

Gerald A (76f251) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:38 pm

Gerald, Kevin might be wrong about Pat specifically, but the whole Medicare part D did spark a beginning of a backlash. Later the McCain/Bush amnesty poured gasoline on it.

While I think GWB was, compared to Hillary! and Tiger Beat, a decent human being I always despised his “compassionate conservatism.” Which was just statism. I’m not in favor of faith in big government because conservatives won’t always hold the reins of power. And no matter how you slice it “compassionate conservatism” is just big, all powerful government.

Something Trump believes in. And apparently the Trumpkins and a lot of so-called conservatives who are now repudiating everything they said they stood for as so much BS. As for me, no, I don’t think I’ll sign my own death warrant, thank you very much. I’ll wind up just as dead, but at least I didn’t go all Quisling.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:38 pm

Can we fund our health care system by finally selling off federal land? Would that be the libertarian solution-aside from legalizing pot?

Pinandpuller (7b4baa) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:40 pm

@133. Try Jack Daniels.

Keep the radiator hydrated. But if you engine coughs, it might have ‘pneumonia.’

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:41 pm

of course it was rigged, the chief sponsor, got a nice lobbying gig out of the deal, but it was decided lurch was not the alternative to that choice,

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:42 pm

Gerald, Kevin might be wrong about Pat specifically, but the whole Medicare part D did spark a beginning of a backlash. Later the McCain/Bush amnesty poured gasoline on it.

While I think GWB was, compared to Hillary! and Tiger Beat, a decent human being I always despised his “compassionate conservatism.” Which was just statism. I’m not in favor of faith in big government because conservatives won’t always hold the reins of power. And no matter how you slice it “compassionate conservatism” is just big, all powerful government.

Something Trump believes in. And apparently the Trumpkins and a lot of so-called conservatives who are now repudiating everything they said they stood for as so much BS. As for me, no, I don’t think I’ll sign my own death warrant, thank you very much. I’ll wind up just as dead, but at least I didn’t go all Quisling.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:38 pm

Your death warrant is four or eight more years of a Democrat Justice Dept. combined with a liberal majority on SCOTUS.

Did you vote for President in 2004? If so, for whom?

Gerald A (76f251) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:43 pm

#134 Steve57,

Absolutely.
Again, it’s not about what Steve57 wants.

There are two nominees.
One of them will become the next president.
Which one?

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:44 pm

I would be MUCH MUCH happier with a different messenger carrying Trump’s basic message. Which was, at least during the primaries this: “America’s elites have forgotten that they work for America.”

Sadly, It’s Trump who’s the nominee and Trump is more ignorant about stuff than my cat (and like my cat, thinks mostly about himself). Further, he has long since abandoned EVERY position he took during the primaries, and is now running exclusively on “Hillary is Worse!”

And other GOP candidate would be 20 points up on the crazy bag lady. But we’ve got someone who is not noticeably better.

His positions no longer matter. Her positions no longer matter. It’s Team R vs Team D and the fact that both parties have nominated totally unacceptable wackjobs doesn’t seem to register.

The best move on all sides is to boycott.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:44 pm

Foreign central banks have reduced their holdings of UST a record $343 Billion over the past 12 months:

What is becoming increasingly obvious, is that both foreign central banks, sovereign wealth funds, reserve managers, and virtually every other official institution in possession of US paper, is liquidating it at a never before seen pace. In some cases, like China, this is to offset devaluation pressure; in others such as Saudi Arabia, it is to provide the funds needed to offset the collapse of the petrodollar, and to backstop the country’s soaring budget deficit.

QE will soon be resumed by buyer of last resort. Possibly in concert with prime rate hike; loosening and tightening simultaneously.

How unexpected!

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:44 pm

well the two are tied, the dragon taking a long siesta, flattens the demand curve, for petrol.

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:47 pm

154. Believe it or not Mr. M., your cat and I are happier with the thought of Trump delegating America’s business than we’d be with you.

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:47 pm

If we all just vote for Sheriff Andy Taylor, or Jefferson Smith, or Calvin Coolidge, or for “none of the above,” then neither Trump nor illary will become the next president.

Oh, nevermind. Just kidding.

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:51 pm

152. “Something Trump believes in.”

Offering to expand Medicare is proof I suppose that DJT is a Bushist, which is why you supported a Bushist.

Have it both ways, then.

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:53 pm

Hey, Pinandpuller, do you know the difference between Philippians and Philippines? Apparently not.

John Hitchcock (dfb418) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:04 pm

just as with nico, the thing that distinguished him among the gaullists, was his strong counter terror stand, even with the economy waining, the merah attack, (which turned out to be precursor)
was the final straw, so if trump wavers on the immigration or trade issue, then he would lose a sizable portion of his support,

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:04 pm

143. I’d say thanks but consider the source.

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:06 pm

…Again, it’s not about what Steve57 wants.

There are two nominees.
One of them will become the next president.
Which one?

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/16/2016 @ 7:44 pm

I’m a realist about who will be the next president. And, yes, you’re right, this isn’t about what I want. I’m a realist about that, too. I’m never going to get what I want. A republic, if I can keep it.

It’s somewhat dispiriting to see the Trumpkins to join the “realists” who proclaim that it’s just stupid to stand on conservative principles. Well, maybe it is, but I always suspected I moved to Texas to refight the Alamo.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:08 pm

I signed my own death

warrant but I didn’t date it.

Pinandpuller (7b4baa) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:09 pm

I know the difference between Philippians and Filipinos, yes.

Pinandpuller (7b4baa) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:15 pm

128, 131, 134, 160. Documenting non sequitur. Whatevs.

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:15 pm

163. “it’s just stupid to stand on conservative principles”

You’ve got a lot of prinicples, how do you reconcile them? Familial attachments, likely not. How do you handle conflicting ‘nice to haves’?

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:20 pm

Looks like all the conservative stalwarts here didn’t join #NeverBush after Medicare Part D, neither did they call for Bush voters to be purged from the Party. Their souls are much purer now, it seems.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:24 pm

I guess I got hoist on my own retard.

I thought you were trying to say Filipino 10 cent pieces as opposed to Philippine 10 cent pieces.

Yes, you are correct. I will turn the obverse to you.

I feel sorry for people Dragooned into unions.

Pinandpuller (7b4baa) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:25 pm

they could have gone with ‘sound of thunder’ and spared themselves the irony,

http://freebeacon.com/politics/cnn-complains-mocking-media-undermines-democracy-compares-hussein-era-iraq/

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:26 pm

@Steve57: who proclaim that it’s just stupid to stand on conservative principles.

See, that’s the thing, not one of the people you are arguing with said any such thing.

What we said, repeatedly, is that your conservative principles will not be advanced by holding your breath until you turn blue.

What I specifically said, repeatedly, is that progressives got gay marriage even though they voted for politicians who ran against it, and that Party of Stupid is too stupid to learn from this.

Conservative principles have been repudiated by the electorate, including the Republican electorate. Acknowledging that does not mean, Party of Stupid, that you abandon the principles.

What it means, Party of Stupid, is that you work for those principles by helping people who can get elected even if that means they are not as lily-pure as you are now, not like in 2000, 2004, 2008, and 2012 when you were willing to accept half a loaf.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:28 pm

And the repeated calls for the bannination of those who disagree with you are I suppose another proof of your purity.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:29 pm

It is human nature to want what we want and have it now, despite our neighbor’s conflicting, dearly held desire.

The course commonly taken is to call our neighbor an azz and stalk off.

How should adults handle this situation?

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:32 pm

it should follow maslow’s hierarchy, what are the most critical elements, among steyn’s many comments today, was to point out her there would appear to be a coalition govt if trump wins, since many office holders unlike with obama, seem willing to hold out more resistance,

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:36 pm

170. There, a reasonable man. #nevertrump can u rel8?

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:37 pm

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:28 pm

According to your theory, limited government advocates, by accepting the half loaf in 2000-2012, have steadily improved their position. That seems not to match actual events.

Kishnevi (b0adf2) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:43 pm

but abstaining doesn’t get you anywhere on the board, so much for cunning cunning plans,

narciso (d1f714) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:46 pm

@kishnevi:According to your theory, limited government advocates, by accepting the half loaf in 2000-2012, have steadily improved their position. That seems not to match actual events.

“Necessary but not sufficient” is another concept Party of Stupid struggles with.

How does peeing on Trump and his supporters improve your position? By making its appeal more selective?

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:52 pm

Gabriel Hanna

When Trump wins it’s gonna be Bannon-ation.

Pinandpuller (847f34) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:19 pm

Looks like all the conservative stalwarts here didn’t join #NeverBush after Medicare Part D, neither did they call for Bush voters to be purged from the Party. Their souls are much purer now, it seems.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:24 pm

Again, you’re ignoring the fact that the conservatives who joined the TEA Party backlash against Bush didn’t think in terms of hashtags. Were there even hashtags back then? Dunno, I don’t do social media.

It’s like claiming that because conservatives didn’t start #NeverFDR we can’t say anything critical about social security.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:37 pm

@Steve57:Were there even hashtags back then?

You’re working very hard to miss the point.

Can you explain how peeing on Trump and his supporters is going to make conservative principles appeal to the electorate?

Or are you going to explain that you personally are not actually urinating on anyone and you don’t know what I’m talking about it?

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:41 pm

According to your theory, limited government advocates, by accepting the half loaf in 2000-2012, have steadily improved their position. That seems not to match actual events.

Kishnevi (b0adf2) — 9/16/2016 @ 8:43 pm

The thing about accepting half a loaf from the Democrats is this. They know they can come back later and demand part of the other half of the loaf. Take the “gun show loophole.” When Congress passed the legislation that led to the NICs check program, private transactions by non-FFL holders were deliberately exempted. As part of the compromise to get the bill passed. Now, the Democrats are pretending that this is somehow an unforeseen “loophole” that must be closed.

It’s how they roll. They just keep coming back for your half of the loaf, until you have none left. And der Donald will happily make deals with them.

So, how fast do you want to drive off the cliff, again?

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:54 pm

Gabriel, that’s very passive aggressive of you. And by that I mean Islamic. So, when I complain about being tired of having someone piss down my back and tell me it’s raining, that means I am peeing on someone else?

Just how much piss is there to go around?

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:56 pm

Also, Gabriel, you’re missing the point. Conservatives who rose up against Bush didn’t express themselves in hashtags. Yet you persist in obsessing over hashtags.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 9:58 pm

compassionate conservatives is what no trumpers call the booshes, I call them progressive hacks.

mg (31009b) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:10 pm

@Steve57: So your plan is:

1) Hold breath and stomp feet
2) ?????
3) Elect a new Reagan

You got nothing.

I keep asking, keep getting no answer. How did progressives get gay marriage by voting for people who were against it?

Party of Stupid’s head asplodes.

Progressives worked for people who didn’t agree with them. They got their people into key positions. Then they got the politicians on their side, after they got what they wanted. Not before.

Party of Stupid.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:17 pm

@Steve57: you persist in obsessing over hashtags.

Party of Stupid doesn’t understand metonymy either.

What’s all this about the Founding Fathers resisting a crown? What was their beef with hats?

Party of DELIBERATELY Stupid.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:19 pm

Uhh, no. Nice try Gabriel. Forgive me if I don’t join you in giving away the rest of the store. And you don’t even know that’s what you are doing. You are giving it away, convinced you are standing up for something.

Amazing.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:23 pm

@Steve57: No plan. Nothing. I challenged you to explain how your #NeverTrump stance is going to make the electorate embrace conservative principles. I challenged you to explain how progressives got gay marriage by working with people who opposed it.

You responded with nothing. Nothing nasty you say about me can hid this fact, that you have no idea how your stance is going to help the causes you claim to support.

You have no plan. You’re just butthurt. It’s not the act of an adult.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:26 pm

It’s how they roll. They just keep coming back for your half of the loaf, until you have none left. And der Donald will happily make deals with them.

Example: Taxes.

In 1994, Clinton jacked up taxes, but only on the wealthy.

In 2001, Bush cut back *some* of that increase, along with cutting taxes on people who had never had their taxes raised. And the Democrats howled about how this was a giveaway to the rich.

When Obama raised taxes in 2010, he only raised them on the rich.

And in 2017, Trump will gut taxes a bit for those rich, but mostly for people who had never had their taxes raised either in 2010 or 1994. And the Democrats will howl about how it’s a giveaway to the rich.

Never mind that the top rate, which was 28% in 1985. is now 38.5% (and effectively 40% given the uncapping of Medicare taxes).

A proper tax cut would be this: “Today, we are repealing the Obama tax increase.” They’ll still howl, of course.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:30 pm

~~gut~~ cut

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:31 pm

One time we (the squadron) were having a BBQ and we ran out of propane. So one of our shipmates insisted we head by his place and pick up his Weber grill and his stock of charcoal as it was just minutes away. So, we did.

It turned out unbeknownst to us he had a Golden Retriever, who greeted us at the yard gate as we went in to get the gear. During the course of which a wheel fell off the grill. When we noticed we turned back to go get it. No need. The Golden was sitting their holding the missing wheel as if to say, “You forgot this.”

Keep in mind we had never met this dog before. But it was helping us take stuff from the yard.

I now call this the Trump impulse.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:32 pm

@Steve57: Cool story bro.

How is your #NeverTrump stance is going to make the electorate embrace conservative principles? How would it increase the chance of Trump or Clinton being willing to implement policies that agree with conservative principles?

Another pointless story, or are you going to explain it to me?

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:34 pm

Aww, Gabriel @187, I haven’t said anything nasty about you.

And I didn’t say I was #NeverTrump, and I’ll probably vote for him but I can’t endorse him, just that expressing yourself in hashtags is, well, stupid.

Now you hazz a sad. Sorry, cupcake.

Sincerely,

Big Meanie Steve57

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:37 pm

@Steve57: Cheerfully modified.

How is your “no endorsment” stance is going to make the electorate embrace conservative principles? How would it increase the chance of Trump or Clinton being willing to implement policies that agree with conservative principles?

More patronizing name-calling, or are you going to explain your sekrit plan to me?

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:39 pm

I am going to laugh and laugh and laugh, through my tears*, when DJT loses due to 3rd party siphoning of his votes. The historical irony will be as rich as any given that the only reason DJT was able to capture the GOP nomination was to browbeat and scare the GOPe into submission with his refusal to rule out such a bid himself when they should have been squashing him like the insect he is.

Our Creator has one heckuva sense of humor.

*For our republic, which is already fallen.

Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:40 pm

@Ed from SFV: 3rd party siphoning of his votes.

Not likely at this point, the third and fourth parties are siphoning votes from Herself.

Then again, the one recurring theme of this election is that everyone has been wrong about everything.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:45 pm

@Ed from SFV:For our republic, which is already fallen.

Sadly I am with you 100% on this one.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:45 pm

@191, again you remind me why I didn’t spend the ’90s and and the first decade of this century smoking crack.

I’m sure you don’t remember it but McCain/Palin tried to paint Obama/Biden as socialists in 2008. It didn’t work, despite being true. why? Because the GOP had voted for the same damned s***. How are the LIVs supposed to know the difference?

So here we are, me being told I’m not a conservative unless I vote for the guy advocating federally mandated, publicly funded maternity leave.

Are you effing nuts, is my only question.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:47 pm

@Ed from SFV:For our republic, which is already fallen.

Sadly I am with you 100% on this one.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:45 pm

Since you agree, what’s your problem with me rather not degrading myself?

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:51 pm

@Steve57:me being told I’m not a conservative unless I vote for the guy advocating federally mandated, publicly funded maternity leave.

Not by me, you weren’t.

How is your “no endorsement” stance is going to make the electorate embrace conservative principles? How would it increase the chance of Trump or Clinton being willing to implement policies that agree with conservative principles?

More sparring with imaginary comments, or are you going to explain your sekrit plan to me?

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:51 pm

@Steve57:Since you agree, what’s your problem with me rather not degrading myself?

Because preserving the purity of your essence is more important to you than doing something constructive, and you are blaming the people who are trying to do something constructive rather than cradle their hurt butts. I’ve asked you repeatedly to explain how you think your stance is going to be constructive, and all you do is call me names.

And with this last comment you’ve copped to it: it’s all butthurt, you don’t think your stance IS constructive, in fact you pride yourself on it. And this is what #NeverTrump projects on to pro-Trump. Of course plenty of pro-Trump people are no doubt acting out of the same sort of motive.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:55 pm

…*For our republic, which is already fallen.

Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:40 pm

As much as I despise Barack Obama, he did not fundamentally transform this nation. He picked up on the fact we had already been fundamentally transformed, and he merely exposed that fact.

We really do get the governments we deserve.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:55 pm

@Steve57: See, by my philosophy, voting at all is a “degrading” moral compromise, because government is a protection racket.

Nonetheless I participate because I think not doing so would end up worse. But it doesn’t make me a good person.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 10:57 pm

My stance, Gabriel, that we need to change the rules of the game. We need an Article V convention of the states. I’m not much interested in getting lucky with Presidents and SCOTUS nominations. If we have to hang our hats on that, we are screwed anyway.

Is this hard to understand?

The only way to eliminate corruption in high places is to get rid of high places. Unless and until it doesn’t matter who is President, because the President can’t rule as a dictator with a pen and a phone, we’re hosed.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:00 pm

You know I badly misjudged #NeverTrump because I thought it was just a non-credible threat to keep Donald Trump from winning the primary. But I badly underestimated the power of butthurt.

It’s something that life keeps trying to teach me, and I keep failing to learn: that people can be perverse. It’s the old Russian story about the peasant who finds a genie in a bottle, and the genie grants a wish on the condition the peasants neighbor gets double. So the peasant wishes to lose an eye.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:01 pm

@Steve57:We need an Article V convention of the states.

Yes, I agree with you, something like that is needed. And with the electorate we have now, we’d get something like Emperor Kanye.

Again, it’s all backward. If the people generally were in favor of conservative principles we’d have President Cruz by now and we wouldn’t the convention. Again, just like gay marriage in 1992. You get the power first, then you get want you want regardless of what the people want.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:03 pm

Aww, Gabriel hazz a sad. And projects much.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:05 pm

@Steve57: And so, we return, once again: how does your stance make it more likely that the electorate will favor conservative principles? How does it make it more likely that Trump or Hillary or an Article V convention would be willing to implement conservative principles?

With this electorate, it’s not Article V that would work. It would either be like the American Revolution: 1/3 of the population, not willing to go along, expropriated and exiled if lucky, killed by mobs if not. Or it would be like progressives and gay marriage, work at it for twenty years by supporting people who don’t agree with you, and doing favors for them to get favors for you.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:07 pm

@Steve57:Aww, Gabriel hazz a sad. And projects much.

More of the same. Where’s your plan? Please explain it. Keep asking. Keep getting name calling and butthurt, but no plan.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:08 pm

An Article V convention would be nothing like our constitutional convention. There is no need to worry about a “runaway” convention as all an Article V could do is propose amendments that would later have to be ratified by the states. An Article V convention can’t actually do anything by itsel.

It’s our only hope. Because now our unelected, unaccountable bureaucracy backed by an uncontrollable-because-he’s-effing-historic preezy with a pen and a phone can do whatever they want Like issuing bathroom and locker room decrees.

By any measure this is far beyond what any eighteenth century king though he could do.

Trump isn’t going to fix the real problem. H3ll, he subsidized the real problem and still brags about it.

So I just can’t get excited about defeating Hillary! at all costs given the alternative. Which is pretty much more of the same.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:14 pm

@208, my plan is to return power to the states. Closer to the people, for more accountability.

Is this hard to understand?

Nothing else will work. The feds are out of control, and reveling in the fact they can’t be controlled. Trump will not fix this.

Again, is there something difficult about my formula?

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:18 pm

I am effing sick of hearing “This is the most important election in our lifetime.”

Each one has been for the past twenty years and it’s only getting worse.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:20 pm

@Steve57:all an Article V could do is propose amendments that would later have to be ratified by the states.

Ok, so… how does your stance make it more likely that the electorate will favor conservative principles? How does it make it more likely that Trump or Hillary or an Article V convention would be willing to implement conservative principles?

Because if a majority of state legislatures were willing to do this, and a majority of the population was willing to set up an Article V convention to propose amendments along conservative principles, then we wouldn’t need the convention at all.

This is like trying to quit smoking by hiding your cigarettes from yourself. You have to get the electorate on your side, or get people the electorate favors on your side.

Trump isn’t going to fix the real problem.

No, he isn’t. He can’t do anything by himself. In his case a phone and a pen do no good because the bureaucracy does not leap to anticipate him. He will need help from people. He will not take help from people who refuse to help him because he isn’t acting according to their priorities.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:21 pm

@Steve57:my plan is to return power to the states. Closer to the people, for more accountability.

Ok, but the people don’t want conservative principles. What good does it do for conservative principles to give the people more power and make power more accountable if they use that power in the wrong way?

When the Metrodome collapsed I was living near Minneapolis. The Vikings threatened to move if the state didn’t kick in for most of the stadium. The stadium was super expensive and the state thought the team could certainly afford to pick up more of the cost.

And the legislature was inundated by phone calls from angry voters, saying to get it done regardless of cost.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:24 pm

An Article V convention of the states would be, on its own, an expression of conservative principles. In that, we are capable of governing ourselves and are doing so. We don’t need an overreaching preezy or a bunch of black robed Mullahs to do the job for us.

I’m not advocating this because I think it’s a guarantor of me getting what I want. I’d just rather lose this way than the way I already know I can’t win.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:29 pm

@Steve57:An Article V convention of the states would be, on its own, an expression of conservative principles.

I agree. And it has not been scheduled, has it? And who is currently setting one up? No one.

I’d just rather lose this way than the way I already know I can’t win.

And there it is.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:31 pm

201 – Steve57 Quite right, The rot of Progressivism and statism set our fate. All was predicted by our founders, and history, itself.

Article V is our only legal, and potentially non-violent, hope. Who says it will be easy?????

Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:33 pm

By the way, Sandy Eggo is proposing a hotel tax so to build a new stadium for the Chargers. It looks like it may lose, thanks to Kaepernick.

Again, Gabriel, you are missing the point. I might lose to my neighbors. I can live with that. What I can’t live with is being dictated to by an unaccountable Washington D.C.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/school-found-in-violation-of-title-ix-for-using-common-sense-to-investigate-accusations/article/2601575

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:36 pm

Gabriel – Check out ASL – Assembly of State Legislatures. Google it. There is progress. Obi-Wan may yet appear.

Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:38 pm

I agree. And it has not been scheduled, has it? And who is currently setting one up? No one…

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:31 pm

WTFO? Lots of people have been working on this, and they’ve been making progress. Just a random Google search turns up:

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/tennessee-becomes-5th-state-pass-resolution-calling-article-v

An Article V convention is not merely in the realm of fantasy, as you would imply.

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:43 pm

I believe that what is now washington D.C. was originally worthless, malarial swampland. It should be our life’s mission to reduce it to the same condition from whence it crawled out of the stinking ooze.

Is that a guarantee I’ll get what I want? No, but it would be a good start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzspsovNvII

Chapter Jackson – It’s Free Swipe Yo EBT (Explicit)

(FYI, Chapter isn’t singing about EBT cards because she’s a fan.)

Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/17/2016 @ 12:00 am

Soros
Uni-party – [no trumpers]
MFM
vs
We The People

mg (31009b) — 9/17/2016 @ 3:14 am

DCSCA wrote:

And there we have the ‘compassionate conservative’ in a nutshell.

George W Bush claimed to be a compassionate conservative; I did not.

What did ‘compassionate conservatism’ give us? It gave us No Child Left Behind and Medicare Part D, two more federal programs that bust the budget. Add ‘compassionate liberalism’ to that and we’ve gotten a doubling of people on food stamps, a skyrocketing number of people on disability, and a labor force participation rate lower than any time since Jimmy Carter’s first year in office, because people know that they can simply not work and live on welfare.

The hard-hearted Dana (f6a568) — 9/17/2016 @ 4:22 am

DCSCA wrote:

As I said, it is a waste of time arguing with Americans who resist the inevitable but will take advantage of both when they arrive. Reagan opposed Medicare. Conservatives opposed Social Security.

I’m 63 years, 4 months and 25 days old: when I hit eligibility ages, I certainly will take both Medicare and Social Security, because I’ve already paid for them! I had no choice in the matter: the government has been seizing part of my paychecks for the last 45 years, so Hell yes, I will take them, I will take every last euro I’m owed, and I would do so even if I had a billion dollars in the bank.

The Dana who will take every last ruble! (f6a568) — 9/17/2016 @ 4:27 am

The esteemed Mr Hitchcock wrote:

Japanese socialized medicine is so comprehensive that so much of our US over-the-counter medications are available by prescription only in Japan. Great system, that socialized medicine thing. And medicine behind the Iron Curtain was horrendous. The free market, and profit motive is what makes health care great. Socialized medicine is what makes health care horrendous.

DCSCA and the other socialized medicine supporters ought to read Sachi ab Hugh’s account of her father’s treatment under Japanese medical care. He got the best . . . because he had three private insurance policies, had connections, and his wife paid bribes. The commoners who had only the Japanese single-payer system?

But Dad’s quite lucky that he stays in a nice hospital with three different insurance policies, under the auspices of his brother in law. My girlfriend’s father only had government insurance when he was hospitalized, and the hospital did not even turn on an air conditioner in the middle of August, with temperatures over a hundred degrees and humidity close to 100%.

My girlfriend visited her father as often as she could; she had to: Half the time, they didn’t even empty his bedpan.

You see? National health care works great… so long as you’re rich enough to afford the premium level of government insurance and to buy multiple additional private policies; so long as you have influential relatives; and so long as you’re willing and able to brazenly bribe the doctors and bureaucrats who run the system.

The Dana who has private health insurance (f6a568) — 9/17/2016 @ 4:33 am

Mr M wrote:

Medicare Part D went into effect in 2006. It was initially authorized in December 2003, but the vote was so close — and somewhat rigged — that it was not clear that it would survive the 2004 election. When it DID go into effect, it was one more nail into Bush’s political coffin.

Given that President Bush was in his second term at that point, his political coffin was already nailed shut; he couldn’t run again!

The Dana who has read the Constitution (f6a568) — 9/17/2016 @ 4:37 am

204. Eventually we will get to that Article V convention.

Until then your plan is to do nothing and hope for secession.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user230519/imageroot/2016/09/15/20160916%20-%20Cost%20of%20Living%20Map2.png_.jpg

Obduracy personified.

DNF (ffe548) — 9/17/2016 @ 5:59 am

221. #nevertrump is further along on the continuum to decadence represented by Chapter’s performance than it postures.

You are not refusing to fight today to save ammo for a battle of more consequence. On the contrary you are doing nothing.

Not even attempting a persuasive argument, just cruising for entertainment.

DNF (ffe548) — 9/17/2016 @ 6:10 am

The problem as robin has spelled out, is the progs have set up an ambush in the jersey tolls.

narciso (d1f714) — 9/17/2016 @ 6:35 am

Lou Dobbs:

Former blue states: Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Iowa, Colorado, New Hampshire, Nevada, and Virginia are all i[n] play.

Michigan, Colorado and New Hampshire were moved from “likely blue state” to “toss up” this week.

DNF (755a85) — 9/17/2016 @ 6:38 am

You can have a cup of bob gates agita if you wish.

narciso (d1f714) — 9/17/2016 @ 6:44 am

“Battleground states have moved right relative to the country.”

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-clintons-electoral-map-isnt-as-good-as-obamas/

DNF (755a85) — 9/17/2016 @ 6:46 am

The diplomad has some musings of note.

narciso (d1f714) — 9/17/2016 @ 6:53 am

Somehow equating organized crime like the Teamsters with police unions smacks of moral equivalence, straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel:

http://hotair.com/archives/2016/09/17/two-philly-officers-shot-latest-ambush-attack-police/

#nevertrump complains bitterly about the neophyte’s past positions, providing no citations, and then turn around and face plant badly on their own recognizance.

DNF (755a85) — 9/17/2016 @ 6:57 am

“Do you remember way—-way—-way—back in July, when the public thought Trump was the candidate they couldn’t trust with the nuclear arsenal? That was before we realized he could moderate his personality on command, as he is doing now. We’re about to enter our fifth consecutive week of Trump doing more outreach than outrage.

It turns out that Trump’s base personality is “winning.” Everything else he does is designed to get that result. He needed to be loud and outrageous in the primaries, so he was. He needs to be presidential in this phase of the election cycle, so he is.

Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton has revealed herself to be frail, medicated, and probably duplicitous about her health. We also hear reports that she’s a drinker with a bad temper. Suddenly, Clinton looks like the unstable personality in this race. Who do you want controlling the nuclear arsenal now?

You probably thought Trump was the bigot in this contest, until Clinton called half of Trump’s supporters a “basket of deplorables.” That’s the point at which observers started to see a pattern. Trump has been consistently supportive of American citizens of all types – with the exception of the press and his political opponents. The main targets of Trump’s rhetoric are the nations that compete against us. In stark contrast, Clinton turned her hate on American citizens. That’s the real kind of hate. Trump is more about keeping America safe and competing effectively in the world. That is literally the job of president.

Trump was once the candidate that the LGBTQ community found easy to hate. Then it turned out that Trump is the loudest voice for protecting America against the anti-gay ideology that Clinton would increase in this country via immigration. At the GOP convention, Republicans stood and applauded Trump’s full-throated support of the LGBTQ community. While Clinton was talking about a better society, Trump was transforming the Republican Party into one. (Yes, I know there is more to do.)

You might remember a few months ago when Clinton had lots of policy details and Trump had few. Clinton still holds the lead in the number of bullet-points-per-policy, but while she rests, Trump has been rolling out policy details on one topic after another. Perception-wise, the optics of “who has policy details” has flipped. (Reality isn’t important in this context.)

Do you remember over a year ago, when Trump first entered the race? Social media relentlessly insulted his physical appearance. They mocked his orange hair and his orange skin. They called him a clown. They called him a Cheeto. It was brutal.

But over time, Trump’s haircut improved. He softened the color to something more blonde than orange And his fake tan and TV makeup improved too. Today, if you ask a voter to name the candidate for president who “looks bad,” the answer would probably be Clinton, primarily because of her recent health issues. In our minds, Clinton went from being a stylish and energetic personality to a hospice patient dressed like a North Korean dictator at a rave.

Not long ago, you would have said Clinton was the strongest candidate for protecting citizens who need the help of social programs. Then Trump unveiled his plan for childcare and senior care. You can debate the details, and the cost, but nearly everyone recognized the idea as a critical need for working class people…”

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/150449295541/when-reality-turned-inside-out

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/17/2016 @ 7:06 am

233.

Western civilization is collapsing. We see that as the Islamic invasion of pampered Eloi Europe continues apace, meeting little resistance, and, in fact, often welcomed with open arms and wallets. We see it in the United States where our vastly overfunded higher “education” system produces millions of aggressive, self-centered, ignorant dolts and turns them loose on society as “agents of change.” We see it in the triumph of mental illness and the collapse of common sense, e.g., defending our national borders; we see it in the insisting that there is no such a thing as a female sex and a male sex; in the imposition of minimum wage and other regulations and laws that destroy the economy and liberty; the refusal to ask for voter identification, etc. If one seeks to defend the values of America and the West, one gets labelled a racist, a xenophobe, a supremacist, a patriarch (see here, for example). The assault on dissent, on diversity of opinion, on individual freedom is unrelenting. The truth must remain unspoken. We see the collapse in the horrifically malevolent people elected to office, up to and including our president–a president “too busy” to worry about America winning, and more interested in appeasing and accommodating our enemies than in standing by our friends and interests. These, of course, are just random tips of the many icebergs out there.

The people one might expect to lead the charge against this progressive mayhem, the Republicans and the well-heeled conservative elite, are MIA when, in fact, they haven’t gone full Bowe Bergdahl or Lord Haw Haw on us. I have written about this before (here, for example) and don’t want to bore you too much with another round. I would note, however, that these so-called conservatives seem more worried about ideological purity than about the disaster all around us. Some are busy reorganizing the Titanic’s deck chairs, while others are putting in an order to Amazon for completely new chairs oblivious to those icebergs tearing at our hull.

DNF (755a85) — 9/17/2016 @ 7:06 am

Horowitz:

It is this failed monopoly of Republicans and Democrats on the political system — one that has morphed into a de facto oligarchy — that has actualized Madison’s worst nightmare of a government not derived from a “great body of the society,” but from “a handful of tyrannical nobles, exercising their oppressions by a delegation of their powers,” who “might aspire to the rank of republicans, and claim for their government the honorable title of republic.”

What Are We The People To Do?

There are no easy or quick solutions to restoring our Constitution following so many years of complacency in the face of endless usurpations. However, what is clear is that we must find a way to restore power back to the states and tilt the balance of federal power back from the judiciary and bureaucracies and toward Congress. We also need to work in the states to promote Article V conventions, using the existing constitutional tools to restore and reinforce the original system of government we adopted.

Concurrently, it is incontrovertibly clear that to continue down the same path of failure is not an option. So long as constitutionalists are stuck in this binary political game, we will continue to exemplify the definition of insanity by expecting a different result. The federal government will not willingly restore power to the red states; they must grab it back on their own. Doing so will require a new political vehicle, one that is fresh, consistent, principled, and intellectually honest so that it might have the political capital to advocate for state powers, civil disobedience, shunning of the courts and the agencies, and so forth.

The existing Republican Party cannot and will not serve as that vehicle. We have learned from 1988 until the present — ever since Republicans stopped nominating constitutionalists for president — that members of the party will bend in the wind and change their long-held beliefs to comport with the capricious views of the party leaders.

Ideally, we wouldn’t have any factions or parties, but even Washington recognized in his time that they are “inseparable from our nature.” The next best thing is to break the monopoly of the oligarchy by introducing choice and competition through a new party that is actually built upon republican principles. As Madison wrote in Federalist #10, the way to deal with the necessary evil of factions is to grow the pie: “[Y]ou take in a greater variety of parties and interests; you make it less probable that a majority of the whole will have a common motive to invade the rights of other citizens.”

…we need new and innovative strategies to restore the timeless principles set forth by our Founders.

This new vehicle will not launch overnight in all 50 states and will not take the same form in every state, at least not initially. But it must begin in the states where overwhelming majorities are still receptive to a constitutionalist message. And fortunately, most governor elections and more state legislative elections occur during non-presidential years when Democrat turnout is lower, which is why Republicans to this day control so much state government. Sadly, with the exception of a few states, they don’t do anything positive with the power they have.

Taking the ball and going home will not get anything done. You will remain inarticulate, unpersuasive, disconnected from your neighbor, useless.

DNF (755a85) — 9/17/2016 @ 7:28 am

But Dad’s quite lucky that he stays in a nice hospital with three different insurance policies, under the auspices of his brother in law.

When I was still in practice, I operated on a Japanese man who owned a famous Tokyo restaurant and was quite well off. He did not speak English and had a Japanese speaking American woman as translator. She told me he had come to the US because Japanese surgeons, who are excellent, were not “humane” and he sought care in the US even though he could not speak the language,. A son of his who was a well known sumo wrestler had had a kidney transplant in the US.

His surgery showed that he did not have recurrence of his rectal cancer and he was so happy he invited me for dinner at his restaurant. I wish I had been able to go. Also, on the day he was discharged from the hospital, the translator lady handed me a pretty envelope, which I assumed was a thank you note. I stuck it in my pocket and went on to do my next surgery. A few hours later, I remembered the envelope which was in the pocket of my coat hanging in the dressing room. I looked at it and found $500 in cash.

Japanese surgeons are excellent and have pioneered operations for stomach cancer, which is more common in Japan, but apparently they do not have good bedside manner. It was an interesting experience.

Mike K (90dfdc) — 9/17/2016 @ 7:39 am

Medicare Part D, two more federal programs that bust the budget.

I hear a lot of criticism of Medicare Part D and I think it was poorly negotiated. The big Pharma companies got too much but it was a substitute for a much worse Democrat proposal that was going to be a big issue in 2004.

Bush had a very good proposal for Social Security with his private accounts and Part D was better than the alternative which might have swung the 2004 election.

I hate to see all the revisionism about Bush. He screwed up the Iraq occupation by appointing Paul Bremer.

The GOP Congress bellied up to the trough after Gingrich left for his book deal.

The Iraq invasion was a decision that Bush made when the alternatives were worse. We have had extensive discussion of that at Chicagoboyz.

Mike K (90dfdc) — 9/17/2016 @ 7:46 am

National Soros Radio propaganda slut Jessica Taylor are concerned about the diseased stinkypig’s safety and welfare please please to share on facebook (before it’s too late)

Trump’s Second Amendment Rhetoric Again Veers Into Threatening Territory

In going after Hillary Clinton on gun rights, Trump suggests her Secret Service detail disarm and “see what happens.” It recalls an earlier statement that “Second Amendment people” could stop Clinton.

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/17/2016 @ 8:13 am

Trump should start talking about how Sanders is the choice of top Democrats to replace illary if she were to drop out of the race.
That way, the notion that she might drop out gets talked about in the media.
And when low information voters hear something about it in the news, they might start questioning her fitness to serve as President if there’s chatter about her dropping out.

Come on, Kellyanne Conway, get on this!

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/17/2016 @ 8:24 am

With regard to the topic of the article….

Dr. K., like MD in Philly, I always appreciate your comments about medicine and policy. Thank you.

Simon Jester (2708f4) — 9/17/2016 @ 8:25 am

I am so mad at Steven K.Bannon, his radio show was the best in the business.

mg (31009b) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:19 am

Stephen

mg (31009b) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:20 am

I hope so C.S.

mg (31009b) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:21 am

i’m mad at Mr. Trump for cause he doesn’t wanna do the rich aroma of stenchpig all up in the healthcare system

i warned you guys but did you listen no you did not

oh my goodness amazon turdlord jeffy bezos’s crew of wapo propaganda sluts must’ve had a late night of tranny hookers and off-brand well martinis

this is what they spew on the floor this morning:

A lot of Donald Trump Jr.’s trail missteps seem to involve white nationalists and Nazis

(great word Mr. Demo!)

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:27 am

i’m letting my prime run out – at the very least i can go a few months without it and with jet.com i might be able to go a good while really

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:29 am

Col. H, you’ve deceived yourself into becoming a Trumpkin.

Let’s talk again after the election, perhaps your sanity will return. The man is not what you now claim he is, and I could prove that to you from your own quotations from earlier in the year.

Beldar (fa637a) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:32 am

Let me put it this way: If your definition of “presidential” includes what Trump’s doing now, then it’s so broad a definition that it certainly can’t exclude Obama or Clinton.

The man hasn’t changed, won’t change, can’t change, and he’s not new or improved. He’s hired better handlers to try to clean up his messes, is all. And even they can’t keep him from making new ones.

Beldar (fa637a) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:34 am

this is the language of snobbery

this idea that Mr. Trump isn’t good enough to be president of a ramshackle brokedick post-constitutional whorestate like failmerica

such a sad little joke-country

but i’m betting even sleazy cowardly failmerica has the sense not to elect a rampantly criminal stenchpig

i sure hope so

if a pitiful food stamp backwater like failmerica is to have any hope of a rebirth someday

we desperately need the precedent that Mr. Trump offers

a victorious insurgent!

despised by failmerica’s propaganda sluts

despised by the harvardtrash ruling class crotch-stains

if he can do it who knows

it opens up a whirl of possibilities

whereas electing a crimey stinkypig?

that closes a lot of doors

maybe all the doors

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:43 am

ugh i got moderatered

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:45 am

Sorry, Beldar, I like ro read all accounts and opinions/takes. I read yours too. As I’ve said many times before, I worked for, financially contributed to and prayed for the Cruz candidacy. It didn’t happen. There are two choices for that office in November. I won’t join the ranting against the candidate I find myself having to support.

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:45 am

this is the language of snobbery

this idea that Mr. Trump isn’t good enough to be president of a ramshackle brokedick post-constitutional slumstate like failmerica

such a sad little joke-country

but i’m betting even sleazy cowardly failmerica has the sense not to elect a rampantly criminal stenchpig

i sure hope so

if a pitiful food stamp backwater like failmerica is to have any hope of a rebirth someday

we desperately need the precedent that Mr. Trump offers

a victorious insurgent!

despised by failmerica’s propaganda sluts

despised by the harvardtrash ruling class crotch-stains

if he can do it who knows

it opens up a whirl of possibilities

whereas electing a crimey stinkypig?

that closes a lot of doors

maybe all the doors

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:46 am

yay i fixed it!

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:46 am

Also, I’m a Scott Adams/Dilbert fan.

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:47 am

I never have denied characterizing Trump as a “buffoon” and worse, Beldar. I prefer the guy to the greedy, criminal, malevolent, destructive Hillary Clinton. If you can’t wrap your mind around that, I can’t help you.

Carry on.

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:50 am

illary is deplorable. She also has a lot of audacity, and we’ve seen what happens when this country elects a President who has lots of audacity! It’s hopeless! (LOL)

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:54 am

Fwiw,
I think Trump is as terrible as I ever thought he was,
and so is Hillary

My equation* is
NeverDem>NeverTrump

*in a state where one’s vote might matter.

While the Clintons are particularly corrupt,
ANY Dem of national recognition in the present is at best an enabler of all of the worst that the Clintons and Obama have been, done, and advocated for.
I cannot assent to that unless I would know the alternative is worse.
No matter how little confidence I have in Trump,
I do not know he would be worse than the Dem.

What the US needs for survival goes far beyond political answers, though it is true that politics likely will be a contributing problem making things worse.

MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:54 am

Disgraceful. I’m sure the FBI will jump right on this…

“An elderly woman who donated to the Hillary Clinton campaign says she was charged multiple times after she stipulated she would only be making a one-time donation, according to a report from the New York Observer.*

Carol Mahre, an 81-year-old grandmother from Minnesota who has voted Democratic since Eisenhower’s re-election in 1956, said she wanted to make a one-time donation of $25 to Clinton’s campaign. But when she received her U.S. Bank statement, she noticed that multiple charges of $25 (and one for $19) were made to her account from the Clinton campaign.

Mahre said she wanted to make only a one-time donation. Her son, Roger, agreed to help her get her money back, as she could not afford the multiple donations.

“It took me at least 40 to 50 phone calls to the campaign office before I finally got ahold of someone,” Roger told NBC affiliate Kare11, which first investigated Mahre’s story. “After I got a campaign worker on the phone, she said they would stop making the charges.”

But the charges didn’t stop. Roger said his mother is “very good with the Internet,” and doesn’t believe she would have mistakenly signed up for recurring donations. But even if she had, why would the recurring donations change from $25 to $19? Why would the charges come on the same day or in the same month instead of monthly? . . .

Observer reporter Liz Crokin spoke to a Wells Fargo employee who works in the fraud department to figure out what was going on.

“We get up to a hundred calls a day from Hillary’s low-income supporters complaining about multiple unauthorized charges,” the employee, who asked to remain anonymous, told Crokin. The source added that they had not received any calls about the Trump campaign and donations….”

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/244139/

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:56 am

oh my goodness when your only hope is warren buffett’s wells fargo fraud department you’re just not in a good place picklehead

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/17/2016 @ 9:58 am

#248 Beldar,

You touched on what we’re trying to explain; if the country is going to be stuck with a President who is un-Presidential, it’s better that it be someone (Trump) who is surrounded by better GOP handlers than someone (illary) who is surrounded by the left wing Cheryl Millses and Huma Abedins of the world.
Steve Bannon and Kellyanne Conway are right of center. In fact, Kellyanne has always struck me as very right of center.
If Trump wins, I imagine he’ll invite them to be key advisors in his administration.
She might actually convince The Donald to nominate John Bolton as Sec of State, or at least NSA.

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/17/2016 @ 10:03 am

Just say “NO!!!” to Clinton Campaign rumpswabs.

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/17/2016 @ 10:05 am

The man hasn’t changed, won’t change, can’t change, and he’s not new or improved.

Interesting. How long have you known him ?

I tend to rely on people like Conrad Black who have known Trump for many years.

How long have you ?

Mike K (90dfdc) — 9/17/2016 @ 10:07 am

MD in Philly,

An excellent explanation of a very rational decision. Your vote for Toomey will prove to be more important than your vote for President but I certainly hope you use your rationale in speaking with any Republican who expresses a reluctance to go to the polls out of revulsion towards the charlatan at the top of the ticket.

Rick Ballard (f8b9ce) — 9/17/2016 @ 10:14 am

#262 Rick Ballard,

You make a good point, but this is exactly the fire that the #NeverTrump people are playing with. They like to go all scorched earth against Trump, and it likely WILL depress some of the GOP turnout for our Senate and House candidates.
And then who’s going to be the checks and balances against President illary?

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/17/2016 @ 10:22 am

Holy crap. How many times will a proud non-voter like you know who continue to rail about who people should and should not for?

He’s like a little dog who can’t be housebroken, and seems proud of piddling.

In other news, I really do appreciate folks who disagree doing so in an honest and noninsulting fashion (like Beldar and the Colonel in this thread). We are all in this mess together, after all. And many folks will have to make hard choices when they, you know, VOTE.

If not for POTUS, then down ticket.

Simon Jester (2708f4) — 9/17/2016 @ 10:26 am

yes yes it’s important to reiterate a vote for stinkypig’s a vote for corruption, gum disease and fascist oppression

whereas a vote for Mr. Trump – that’s a vote for hope!

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/17/2016 @ 10:29 am

Mr happyfeet, on the other hand, we should be fair to stinkypig.
Her election would probably raise awareness of pneumonia.
And Parkinson’s!

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/17/2016 @ 10:35 am

she’s a deviant stenchpig though Mr. Supporter

this gives me pause

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/17/2016 @ 10:40 am

So did Patterico ever get around to acknowledging that Trump has been saying this throughout the primaries?

Patterico presents it like it’s some sort of disturbing pivot or something, implying it’s a betrayal of those who supported him. Perhaps Patterico didn’t know. He should update the post with that anyway.

Denver Guy (4750ec) — 9/17/2016 @ 10:47 am

Mr happyfeet, I say that the scientific & medical communities should name a disease after illary.

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/17/2016 @ 10:48 am

Simon Jester (2708f4) — 9/17/2016 @ 10:26 am
Simon, I actually don’t mind HF at the moment. It’s the people who get angry and claim that not wanting an authoritarian statist to be POTUS is proof of not being conservative.

Someone upthread described Hillary as greedy, criminal, malevolent, and destructive. Of those four adjectives, only criminal is not equally applicable to Trump.

Kishnevi (410e69) — 9/17/2016 @ 10:51 am

Simon Jester,

Friend, I hope that if I tell someone they’ve lost their sanity (as Beldar accused Colonel of doing), you’ll stand up for me and claim that I didn’t insult anyone! (LOL)

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:02 am

Kish, my issue is probably particular to me. I abhor how nasty and personal things have gotten recently.

The thing that particularly galls me is a person who chooses not to vote at all (for reasons that are, um, not impressive nor consistent) repeatedly telling other people how important voting is, how this is the most important thing ever, etc. It speaks to a lack of seriousness, and a motive for posting on Patterico’s blog that is more about being a jackwagon and troll than anything substantive.

I have long maintained that posting like a weirdo, especially when using offensive terms (mostly of a misogynist nature, frankly), takes away from the supposed goals of the poster: it’s just graffiti that stinks up the place. It is supposed to be an opportunity to engage and discuss here. A salon of sorts. And one, as I have said many times, that Patterico pays for out of his pocket. So it seems awfully disrespectful to him. YMMV.

If you went to a party, and someone talked precisely like that in pretty much every conversation, no matter the topic, would that be great? Especially if you were paying for the food and drink?

So the goal is what? I shake my head.

I agree with you that this election is a dog’s breakfast of awful stuff. We all need to pick and choose. To think and not react. To discuss and not try to score points like Jon Stewart used to. We live in a world of bumper sticker slogans that are about as deep as a piece of paper. All the trolling…Does Not Help.

And here is the thing: if it is bad to call Candidate X nasty and often NSFW things, then it is equally wrong to do the same to Candidate Y. Just like if it is okay to call a candidate by such terminology, you should mind people talking to the other person the same way.

What you write above about greedy, criminal, malevolent, and destructive behaviors are the real problem. Lazy and juvenile language about them only reduces the seriousness of what we face.

Me? Most of all, I despise hypocrisy. We all suffer from it now and again.

But we should try to be better. All of us.

Just my opinion. But I want to hear more from people like Beldar, DRJ, daley, Dana, and so forth. We can learn a lot from them.

Simon Jester (2708f4) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:06 am

The Incredibly Ignorant Dana quilled “…because people know that they can simply not work and live on welfare.”

This is an astonishingly simplistic POV for an individual who calendars himself like an entry in Kirk’s log: ’63 years, 4 months and 25 days old.’ [That’s creepy, too.]

Wisdom does come with age but take heart, yours may arrive at 65 by direct deposit from the SSA or in the socialistic U.S. Mail with your Medicare card.
______

@224. =yawn= Cherry picking is simplistic as well. Our family experienced Nat’l Healthcare in Britain for five years and it worked just fine for the folks, the kids, friends, neighbors and colleagues around us in London. It works. End of story.

‘For God’s Sake, Jamie, give your brain a chance.’ – Battle of Britain, 1969

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:06 am

CS, saying that someone has lost their sanity is a far cry from accusing them of being sluts, having herpes, being incontinent, smelling bad, and being homosexual—all with childish grammar and the occasional NSFW terminology.

Right?

Simon Jester (2708f4) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:08 am

you can’t expect me to stand by silently while people is all saying how we should do stinkypig all up in it

message: I care

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:13 am

So vote.

Simon Jester (2708f4) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:17 am

i’m not in a good voting place right now

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:18 am

Uh huh.

Kind of makes how important you say voting is, how vital this election is, your support of a particular candidate, your opposition to another, well, look….

….like it’s not very important to you, unlike sounding weird and seeing how insulting you can be.

Right?

Thank you for proving my point.

I think that “i’m not in a good voting place right now” ranks right up there with “I work here is done” in the Troll Hall of Fame.

Talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money.

You need to vote. Particularly if you believe the things you post (which I think you do not; you are just here to clown around in my opinion).

You don’t have to vote for a candidate you dislike, but there are many other spots on those ballots for filling in.

Simon Jester (2708f4) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:26 am

I’m good with happyfeet not voting.

Although I agree in general that people should be voting the down ballot races.

But while I previously might have voted a straight party line ticket, I will now investigate the GOP people down ballot to see if they are Trump supporters. If they are, I will not vote for them.

Patterico (bcf524) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:29 am

i have my own agenda Mr. Jester

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:30 am

#262 Rick Ballard,

You make a good point, but this is exactly the fire that the #NeverTrump people are playing with. They like to go all scorched earth against Trump, and it likely WILL depress some of the GOP turnout for our Senate and House candidates.
And then who’s going to be the checks and balances against President illary?

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/17/2016 @ 10:22 am

=================================================

That pretty much characterizes my complaint with these folks. They are doing what they’re doing no matter what the cost.

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:34 am

Oh, I know you do, Mr. Feet. I have always known it.

Patterico, I simply dislike people making a big deal about voting, about how important an election is, of insulting (often in profane language) a candidate, bizarrely supporting another candidate….

….and then not voting because its “not convenient.” The jury duty nonsense bores me. I have voted for decades and never been called up.

But then, I think that voting is important.

I agree with your comment, Patterico. As I posted on the other thread, I think some people “created” Trump. I have never, ever believed in supporting a person just because of the letter after their name. But I think holding the Senate is pretty important.

YMMV.

Simon Jester (2708f4) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:35 am

@271- Cut ’em some slack, CS. The awful realization of being on the wrong side of events in history can be traumatizing and even Obamacare, Medicare or Medicaid doesn’t cover that.

Most of us realize we have two lousy choices so the wise thing to do is select the most acceptable. So it’s JR and his clan or Maudie and her doubleknit pantsuits.

They have two choices– hang on or get cut loose. Otherwise, the modern conservative movement, born in 1964 is DOA in 2016. Because pragmatism is in and ideology is out.

The core issue is how and why these two major parties have degenerated to the point of spitting out probably two of the worst presidential candidates in American history. There’s several PhD’s to be earned unravelling that one. Money as speech; superpacs; influence peddling; lazy electorate; celebrity culture; ending the Fairness Doctrine and the rise of polarized media… image over substance…you can go on and on and on.

Regardless, something is clearly broken.

And the objective this cycle is to either accept some change or maintain the status quo and minimize damage by either. Or, as Americans prefer to be entertained rather than be governed, choose the ‘least objectionable program:’ Dallas or Maude? I choose Dallas.

DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:37 am

If the election goes to Mrs. Bill Clinton and the rest of that party that works to do away with American values, it willl be a disaster, but I will be magnanimous and hope that get all they fought for, get what they want and they get it good and hard.

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:40 am

straddle the line in discord and rhyme i’m on a hunt after that pig

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:44 am

Just as long as you don’t have to do anything, Mr. Feet.

And here is a hint: what you post doesn’t change anyone’s mind…because of the way you post.

So I question your sincerity, as I always have.

But carry on.

Simon Jester (2708f4) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:56 am

i think you’re questioning my commitment to sparkle motion

rest assured

i’m down with the struggle

happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:58 am

Down. Struggle. LOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgecgpCfAYo&list=PLhBqvFTJCaGRJ3FXszs_7dpM12CufNL73

Simon Jester (2708f4) — 9/17/2016 @ 12:03 pm

“it likely WILL depress some of the GOP turnout for our Senate and House candidates.”

Cruz Supporter,

The complete absence of an actual campaign organization is more likely to have a discernible impact. The returned ballot numbers for the first week of mail-in voting in North Carolina suggest the Clinton campaign org is very serious about their field whips hitting goals. Burr’s whips are certainly working and exceeding the first week results of Romney’s whips in ’12 but they need to step up their game in order to assure Burr’s re-election.

The results for Clinton and Burr do not suggest any diminution in voter enthusiasm. The actual data on returned ballots is going to be available on a daily basis and will be of interest as an indicator of voter enthusiasm as the election progresses.

Rick Ballard (f8b9ce) — 9/17/2016 @ 12:22 pm

#274 Simon Jester,

You’re correct that telling someone they’ve lost their sanity is definitely a far cry from calling them a slut.
However, if I start telling the #NeverTrumpers that they’ve lost their minds, I hope you’ll remain consistent by standing up and proclaiming, “That wasn’t an insult.” (LOL)

Virtue, by definition, must transcend whose ox is getting gored.

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/17/2016 @ 12:24 pm

#289 Rick Ballard,

That’s great, but there are 49 other states.
And key Senate races in Wisconsin, Illinois, New Hampshire, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida — the latter three which are swing states for the Presidential election. We can’t afford to discourage any of our voters from voting.
If they stay home because “Trump is just as bad (or worse) as Hillary,” then they ain’t voting down ticket, either.

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/17/2016 @ 12:31 pm

CS, I thought I was clear. Saying someone has lost their mind is quite different from all the sewer nonsense.

Simon Jester (2708f4) — 9/17/2016 @ 12:35 pm

Regarding the whole federalism thing, it’s a no brainer that most of our woe is due to the federal government no longer being constrained by the constitution’s model of negative rights. Most of what the feds are doing is unconstitutional, and an assault on states rights. An article five convention is a great idea, and should be tried, but I am not optimistic that it would accomplish what is hoped for.

The problem is the states are basically welfare recipients, dependent on the Fed’s largess. I don’t know how far back it goes, but my earliest experience was when the 55mph mandate was handed down, on pain of losing federal highway funds. Presto, universal compliance. I see this as the greatest obstacle for a return to federalism. The state’s haven’t lost their sovereignty to federal guns, they have sold it for federal dollars. THAT is the hurtle to limiting the federal government, not a lack of constitutional amendments.

LBascom (c230be) — 9/17/2016 @ 2:20 pm

Patterico cites EMTALA against Medicaid, says nothing about the effect of illegals and DREAMERS on the system.

EMTALA is why they’ve been able to ruin/overload our emergency room system, Medicaid puts them on recordable stipend and prevents ER department from being ‘surprise expenses’ every fiscal cycle.

You may not like this registration method, but if you don’t like it as hard as you didn’t like illegals during the Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama years, we probably don’t have all that much to worry about from you.

A man who doesn’t read VDare is a man utterly worthless for making pronouncements on this election.

Dystopia Max (76803a) — 9/17/2016 @ 4:24 pm

John Hitchcock (dfb418) — 9/16/2016 @ 3:20 pm

The free market, and profit motive is what makes health care great. Socialized medicine is what makes health care horrendous.

In the beginning it probably works well.

There are two big drawbacks:

1) It could be the end of medical progress or an extreme slowing down – and it’s slowed down already a lot since about 1950. Or say 1960.

2) If the system deteriorates there’s nothing to correct it. Elections are a very very poor way of exerting pressure on performance.

Single payer (for most people) public education K-12, and especially K-8, was probably good for most people around the year 1930. Even in segregated schools, both de facto and de jure. Then things started to get bad, starting with the whole word method of teaching reading. It got even worse after teacher’s unioons became common starting around 1960. But all sorts of things started happening. It’s not the teacher’s unions (that merely sucked up all money anybody added to improve education, and before unions we still had civil service protection)

It’s something much more basic.

The thing is, if it goes bad, and institutions do tend to deteriorate with time, there’s nothing to bring it back. Only choice, and the ultimate penalty of going out of business, can do that.

Sammy Finkelman (1a8726) — 9/17/2016 @ 7:46 pm

@John Hitchcock “parasites”

I think that was a word coined by Stalin.

http://soviethistory.msu.edu/1961-2/anti-parasite-law

The 1936 Constitution embraced the moral precept that “he who does not work shall not eat,” but it was only towards the end of the decade that workers who were absent from work without excuse or who quit their jobs without authorization were made criminally liable and subjected to imprisonment. These Draconian measures were not repealed until 1956 when a thoroughgoing reform of labor legislation was initiated.

Why are you repeating a basically Communist idea?

Sammy Finkelman (1a8726) — 9/17/2016 @ 7:59 pm

“195. Then again, the one recurring theme of this election is that everyone has been wrong about everything.”

Well, no, not everyone. Scott Adams, for one. IIRC, he predicted that Trump would win right after he announced he was running, back last June.
A number of others, too. In general, all the people who said last June thru September that Trump would win.

The “everyone” who has been wrong is the people who predicted that Trump would faceplant.

fred-2 (ce04f3) — 9/17/2016 @ 8:44 pm

“203. We need an Article V convention of the states.”
Are you insane???
Look at what happened with gay marriage, men in women’s toilets, Obamacare, open borders, a man can become a woman by saying so, etc. A new convention would be headed by the same people who did all that. Unfortunately, the conservatives and Republicans would roll over and lose out. We’de be lucky to not get a convention that defined Republican as Traitor.

“There is no need to worry about a “runaway” convention as all an Article V could do is propose amendments that would later have to be ratified by the states. An Article V convention can’t actually do anything by itself.”

I know how Scott Adams would tweet upon reading this. Something like: “Says a person who has not been paying attention for the last 30 years.”

“210. my plan is to return power to the states. Closer to the people, for more accountability.”
That’s not a plan. That’s a goal.
A plan is a series of steps to be carried out to achieve a goal.

fred-2 (ce04f3) — 9/17/2016 @ 8:45 pm

“279. But while I previously might have voted a straight party line ticket, I will now investigate the GOP people down ballot to see if they are Trump supporters. If they are, I will not vote for them.”

Yes. Because nothing says principled Conservative/Republican like voting against the Republican candidate. Better to elect a Democrat than a Republican who supported the Republican presidential candidate. What would be your ideal GOP down ballot person — one who supported Hillary?

fred-2 (ce04f3) — 9/17/2016 @ 8:49 pm

@fred-2:Because nothing says principled Conservative/Republican like voting against the Republican candidate.

I know, I was thinking the same thing. This idea of Patterico’s is actually objectively pro-Hillary.
I think that insisting that other Republicans should disavow the winner of the primaries is simply way over that line.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:52 pm

One of the #NeverTrump arguments, before the primary, was that Trump would be so toxic he would imperil the down-ballot races. But this is the first time I’ve heard that someone would be willing to make it their business to imperil the down-ballot races, after conceding their importance in restraining Hillary or Trump.

Gabriel Hanna (7e037e) — 9/17/2016 @ 11:57 pm

DNF (755a85) — 9/16/2016 @ 11:21 am

Virginia Senator Tim Kaine (14%). The remaining 9% said they didn’t like any of those choices.

So the poll was multiple choice and not open ended and just offered people three choices as the alternative to Hillary Clinton if she dropped out: Bernie Sanders (the runner-up in the primaries) Joe Biden (the current vice president) and Tim Kaine (the Democratoc vice presidential nominee)

Sammy Finkelman (1a8726) — 9/18/2016 @ 7:43 am

DCSCA keyed in:

The Incredibly Ignorant Dana quilled “…because people know that they can simply not work and live on welfare.”

This is an astonishingly simplistic POV for an individual who calendars himself like an entry in Kirk’s log: ’63 years, 4 months and 25 days old.’ [That’s creepy, too.]

This Dana adds adjectives so as not to be confused with the other poster, who signs her work as simply ‘Dana.’ I do strive for different and amusing adjectives each time.

Creepy? Well it’s just a habit of mine to refer to my wife as my darling bride of 37 years, 4 months, and, today, 0 days; I do math in my head, and always know the numbers.

Wisdom does come with age but take heart, yours may arrive at 65 by direct deposit from the SSA or in the socialistic U.S. Mail with your Medicare card.

Wisdom has arrived, because I used to be — a long time ago — more sympathetic than I am today. It has been years of experience, seeing guys show up, claiming to be looking for work, but obviously not seriously due to the way they are dressed, when all they really wanted was a name to turn in to whatever welfare agency off of which they were leeching. It has been years of experience seeing able-bodied men doing everything that they could to not have to work, while we’ve been, in effect, importing millions of Mexicans to fill low-skill jobs.

If you can’t see these people, then you don’t have your eyes open!

The very experienced Dana (f6a568) — 9/19/2016 @ 6:43 am

Mr Finkelman wrote:

@John Hitchcock “parasites”

I think that was a word coined by Stalin.

http://soviethistory.msu.edu/1961-2/anti-parasite-law
The 1936 Constitution embraced the moral precept that “he who does not work shall not eat,” but it was only towards the end of the decade that workers who were absent from work without excuse or who quit their jobs without authorization were made criminally liable and subjected to imprisonment. These Draconian measures were not repealed until 1956 when a thoroughgoing reform of labor legislation was initiated.

Why are you repeating a basically Communist idea?

Uhhh, Communist? Try Biblical!

For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.” — 2 Thessalonians 3:10.

The Bible scholar Dana (f6a568) — 9/19/2016 @ 6:47 am

9/16/2016

Trump: Hey, Let’s Expand Medicaid!

307 Responses to “Trump: Hey, Let’s Expand Medicaid!”

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