Patterico's Pontifications

7/12/2016

Anti-Trump Delegates In Virginia Win Lawsuit

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:54 am



[guest post by Dana]

I forgot to post this yesterday.

The state of Virginia holds that all GOP delegates are bound to cast their votes for the winner of the primary on the first ballot at the convention. Said winner being Donald Trump. Yesterday, anti-Trump delegate, Beau Correll, who had sued to allow delegates to vote their conscience, won his lawsuit.

Untitled

This win is especially important as Virginia delegates no longer have to be fearful of being fined (up to $2,500) for voting their conscience. Also, it opens the door for other anti-Trump delegates in other states.

But, as Gabriel Malor also points out, “Delegates had three things binding them before: state law, state party rules, national party rules. One down, two to go.”

–Dana

124 Responses to “Anti-Trump Delegates In Virginia Win Lawsuit”

  1. The WaPo refers to this as a “token boost”…

    Dana (995455)

  2. To those who support Trump.
    Those of you who support Trump and still consider yourselves to be patriotic have a duty to carefully consider the evidence at hand on what is going on in the party.
    First of all, you need to carefully think about why up to 12 Million Democrats temporarily crossed over to support Trump during the primaries. And you have to consider why a hostile press supported Trump with free airtime during this time period.
    Think about it: Why would the Democrats desperately want Trump to be the nominee?
    Second, you also have a duty to thoughtfully reflect on the fact that most polls and analysis shown Trump losing in an electoral bloodbath.
    Why are some not bothered by this reality?
    Third, There is also the very strange case of a presidential candidate taking action against his own interests.
    Again, Why are some not alarmed by this circumstance?
    These are very dangerous aspects that should serve as a big flashing WARNING sign to Trump supporters – if they were interested in winning. And yet some dismiss these items without a second thought – Why?
    The purpose of this is to plead with those who support Trump to consider the evidence at hand and help avoid setting a temporary mistake in stone that very well could be the grave marker for the party.. and the nation as constituted…
    The evidence I have presented should be the impetus for you to reconsider your support for Trump.
    There is no rational point to supporting a candidate who will lose and take down the rest of the party with him. As previously stated, there are some in the Trump movement who are immune to facts and reality. Thus, there is only one logical conclusion for their actions and that is to have him lose and help Comrade Clinton win.

    Those of you in the formerly Conservative media can find redemption in what you do now. You along with every other true patriots in the Trump camp should be taking the following steps:
    1. Be mindful of the distinct possibility of a down ballot apocalypse IF Trumps remains on the ticket.
    2. Implore Trump to drop out of this farce and let someone qualified take over in his stead.
    You are at a crossroads, stay with Trump down the dark path and you will be marching off to oblivion. Because if he is nominated your fate will be tied to his and those who cannot dwell in reality or worse yet, those who want a Trump disaster.
    It is your choice.
    It will not be easy, but doing the right thing never is.

    Torcer (654698)

  3. Fact. It will be Hillary versus Trump.
    As HotAir points out, the VA delegates likely won’t even be polled on the first ballot since Trump won a winnner-take-all. If somehow Trump is tossed out after winning by the rules, Hillary wins in a huge landslide and you’ll have 4 Ginsberg’s appointed. To be blunt, Trump voters will simply never vote for a candidate dictated to them by the sore losers. Good luck on that.

    cedarhill (b72470)

  4. Torcer, I’ve been among the most vocal supporters of Trump since Walker abandoned the race, and I don’t have to do anything but ignore fools like you. You’re the one with a duty to respect the choice of GOP voters. Your attempts to pretend it was Democrats who supplied the margins of victory for Trump are so far from the mark as to disqualify your opinions from consideration.

    Trump is winning and he’ll beat Hillary is a landslide.

    You’re a charlatan, you speak with a forked tongue. Consequently your silly anti-democratic pleas are patently dishonorable and unpatriotic. You’re a cheap fraud and a dirty liar.

    ropelight (596f46)

  5. “why up to 12 Million Democrats temporarily crossed over to support Trump during the primaries. And you have to consider why a hostile press supported Trump with free airtime during this time period.”

    The former have been largely abandoned by their party (just like in Reagan’s day) and the latter don’t realize that the issues they whine about are exactly the issues that Americans care about (just like in Reagan’s day)

    The one big difference from Reagan’s day is that a lot more of the media below editor level are underpaid, stupid, and undisciplined, so they’re much easier to troll into writing useful ‘hit’ pieces.

    “you also have a duty to thoughtfully reflect on the fact that most polls and analysis shown Trump losing in an electoral bloodbath.”

    Polls have and are changing in Trump’s favor as we speak, and most of the ones that showed the losses were prior to Hillary’s E-mail debacle, not to mention the various Black Lives Matter and Islamist terrorist attacks that #NeverTrump are very pointedly either not taking advantage of or attempting to blunt their impact by soft-pedaling their importance or aligning with anti-police extremists on the Gary Johnson side.

    “There is also the very strange case of a presidential candidate taking action against his own interests.”

    Based on the inane previous declarations, the record of #NeverTrump individuals and the GOPe in general, I feel safe in saying that you are not, and have never been, qualified to say what’s in anyone’s interest but your own. Yours are looking pretty disreputable at this point.

    “The purpose of this is to plead with those who support Trump to consider the evidence at hand and help avoid setting a temporary mistake in stone that very well could be the grave marker for the party.. and the nation as constituted”

    The party died a long time ago, right about the time “The Nation As Constituted” was fundamentally transformed by the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965. Trump is here to bury its previous functionaries and save what remains of the high-value population to form a newly functional country. Your dedication to a failed paradigm doesn’t help your qualifications for the ‘high-value’ part.

    “You along with every other true patriots in the Trump camp should be taking the following steps:
    1. Be mindful of the distinct possibility of a down ballot apocalypse IF Trumps remains on the ticket.
    2. Implore Trump to drop out of this farce and let someone qualified take over in his stead.
    You are at a crossroads, stay with Trump down the dark path and you will be marching off to oblivion. Because if he is nominated your fate will be tied to his and those who cannot dwell in reality or worse yet, those who want a Trump disaster.”

    Is that a threat? Sounds like a threat to me! Do you know what we do to people who make threats, empty or not?

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  6. cedarhill (b72470)

    Are you have worried about the polling and analysis that shows an electoral bloodbath?

    Are you worried about Trump’s lack of effort on capitalizing on Comrade Clinton’s e-mail illegalities.

    Torcer (654698)

  7. Harry Reid took over at the RNC so quietly that I hardly noticed.

    Speaking as a non-Trump primary voter previously resigned to casting a hold-my-breath vote for him:

    (1)what’s the point then in voting in primaries if the Swells at GOPHQ can invoke CalvinBall at the Convention?

    (2)what’s the point then in showing up for the General for “Romney/Ryan–Sloppy Seconds” in a state that matters when #NeverTrump is fully committed to their own murder-suicide pact if Trump prevails?

    furious_a (abfcc7)

  8. “Are you have worried about the polling and analysis that shows an electoral bloodbath?”

    Cite current numbers or GTFO.

    “Are you worried about Trump’s lack of effort on capitalizing on Comrade Clinton’s e-mail illegalities.”

    Only neutered fools focus on E-mail alone(though Trump boldly predicted Hillary’s non-indictment days in advance, unlike most #NeverTrump squishes) The only lack of effort I’m worried about is on the part of conservative-presenting people who mysteriously have neither evidence nor drive to produce anything but talking points helpful to liberals.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  9. Mr. Trump is so good he’s gonna be president instead of stinkypig, and I am very thankful.

    She’s a stupid smelly pig but he’s magnificent.

    There’s so many cops downtown today why?

    To help keep Mr. Trump safe from harm!

    He’s got a date with destiny!

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  10. Dystopia Max The former have been largely abandoned by their party (just like in Reagan’s day) and the latter don’t realize that the issues they whine about are exactly the issues that Americans care about (just like in Reagan’s day)

    Actually, we don’t know why all of them did that – but we do know that this has taken place in the past with disastrous results.

    Dystopia MaxThe one big difference from Reagan’s day is that a lot more of the media below editor level are underpaid, stupid, and undisciplined, so they’re much easier to troll into writing useful ‘hit’ pieces.

    No, the fact is the media was providing very good coverage to Trump during the primaries. As has happened in the past.
    Now, the question is Why did they do that?
    In the past they did so to select the worst possible candidate for the party.
    Does it bother you that they are doing the same this time around?

    The polls are changing as they always do – but they have been consistently showing bad news for Trump – can you address that issue please?

    Dystopia Max Based on the inane previous declarations, the record of #NeverTrump individuals and the GOPe in general, I feel safe in saying that you are not, and have never been, qualified to say what’s in anyone’s interest but your own. Yours are looking pretty disreputable at this point.

    Actually, you failed to address those previous issues, so your circular logic response has no bearing.

    Are you denying the various times when Trump has done things that can be argued as sabotaging his own campaign?

    Dystopia MaxYour dedication to a failed paradigm doesn’t help your qualifications for the ‘high-value’ part.

    Strawman argument.
    The party has been a colossal failure – but bringing it down will only help the Left.

    Dystopia Max Is that a threat? Sounds like a threat to me! Do you know what we do to people who make threats, empty or not?

    You really like using Strawman arguments don’t you?
    Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote as it refers to how history will judge those who supported Trump in the face of the overwhelming evidence that he should be replaced.

    Torcer (654698)

  11. Torcer, I’ve been among the most vocal supporters of Trump since Walker abandoned the race, and I don’t have to do anything but ignore fools like you. You’re the one with a duty to respect the choice of GOP voters.
    ropelight (596f46) — 7/12/2016 @ 10:47 am

    Is that the choice of 44% of the GOP voters or 56% of the voters? Because Trump only got the former.

    You can ignore the simple facts that Trump is bad for the party, bad for liberty, bad for the country, and will get blown out by Clinton.

    Or you can wake up and dump Trump!

    sadfeet (e04f50)

  12. He’s got a date with destiny!

    happyfeet (a037ad) — 7/12/2016 @ 11:15 am

    yes yes!

    destiny awaits!

    he will lose more than any other nominee in the history of presidential elections!

    it will be great to see how badly he loses

    making losing great again.

    sadfeet (e04f50)

  13. RealClearPolitics – Election 2016 – General Election: Trump vs. Clinton http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html
    RCP Average 6/24 – 7/6 — Clinton +4.5

    Dystopia Max Only neutered fools focus on E-mail alone

    Interesting that you are disdainful of Tump’s lack of effort on the electoral gift he was given in this campaign.
    BTW, that is not the only example..

    Dystopia Max The only lack of effort I’m worried about is on the part of conservative-presenting people who mysteriously have neither evidence nor drive to produce anything but talking points helpful to liberals.

    Ah yes, that near constant refrain. How does merely discussing the reality help the left?
    Your dismissal of Trump’s failures is also very helpful to them.

    Torcer (654698)

  14. ropelight Trump is winning and he’ll beat Hillary is a landslide.

    The perhaps you can elucidate just how you know this?

    ropelight You’re a charlatan, you speak with a forked tongue. Consequently your silly anti-democratic pleas are patently dishonorable and unpatriotic. You’re a cheap fraud and a dirty liar.

    Ah yes, the all too common use of name calling by Trump supporters.
    And on what are you basing your incendiary accusations?
    If you cannot them back up it will you that will be shown to befitting of those pejoratives.

    Torcer (654698)

  15. Sadfeet, I’ve seen that argument for months on end, it’s very popular among the #NeverTrump crowd but other than the self-deceived, it persuades absolutely no one. Trump won in a field of 17 and he ain’t lookin’ back. He got more primary votes than any GOP candidate in history, but that’s not good enough for the sadsacks, naysayers, and sour grapes losers.

    You might as well be talkin’ to telephone polls. Go back to sleep, Trump doesn’t want your vote.

    ropelight (596f46)

  16. Delegates are not bound by state law as long as they don’t even hve to be elected by state law, and how would any law apply outside the stte, but they are bound by party rules, which may deem them to have resigned if they attempt to cast a vote for someone other than to whom they are pledged, or may just not count such voites but count them automatically – whatever the rule says. I suppose this lawsuit was about what happens if the party rules are changed.

    But saying that votes can be cast any way the delegate wants is the wrong way to change the rules. The right way is to require 62% on any ballot cast in the first 18 hours of voting, for the next convention as well as this one, and then for the convention to vote as to how low to lower the threshhold or something that will make that 62% matter during the primaries..

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  17. The perhaps you can elucidate just how you know this?

    The same way I knew Trump would win the nomination -> I been to college.

    And on what are you basing your incendiary accusations?

    My observations are based on your ridiculous claims and on my lifetime of experience dealing with misguided fools who mistake their delusions for reality, then try to drag others into the black pit of their own chaotic psyche.

    ropelight (596f46)

  18. Mr. Trump wins hearts and minds cause of he has the best thinkings on the problems. (Love that about him.)

    Whereas stinkypig just brings scabs, chafe marks, foul odors, and lies to the table.

    Advantage: Mr. The Donald

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  19. …one last thought:
    (3)now that David French is out of the race, are the #NeverTrumpers going to reach back into the Primary Clown Car for…JEB! or LINDSEY! or are they going to spring some other untested sacrificial lamb on us who is going to stare slack-jawed at Candy Crowley when she sandbags him in the Debates?

    furious_a (d9d022)

  20. I think the #NeverTrumpers, or at least the people who want to pose as teh leaders of that, if theer are any such people, have no idea what to do.

    Maybe tehy are waiting for the Republican Party to break up.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  21. ropelight The same way I knew Trump would win the nomination -> I been to college.

    1. He hasn’t won the nomination yet.
    2. This in regards to future events of which no one has any indication of what is goign to happen with any probable certainty

    ropelight My observations are based on your ridiculous claims and on my lifetime of experience dealing with misguided fools who mistake their delusions for reality, then try to drag others into the black pit of their own chaotic psyche.

    And that Proves NOTHING – you have to provide FACTS if you are going to make baseless accusations such as those.

    Merely issuing even more childish insults DOES NOT prove your case – TRY AGAIN.

    Torcer (654698)

  22. I don’t have to do a damn thing but laugh at your stupidity.

    ropelight (596f46)

  23. ropelight

    So you don’t care if you destroy your credibility making accusations you CANNOT back up?

    You should realize that your abject inability to back up your incendiary accusations does not have anything to do with my abilities.

    So sadly, your failure is twofold.

    Torcer (654698)

  24. I know, why don’t you provide some facts. And write your comments in all caps. That might frighten me into taking you seriously. Just sayin’

    ropelight (596f46)

  25. The state statute failed not because it was overridden by GOP rules, but because it violated the 1st Amendment – which allows Parties to make their own rules.

    If the Va GOP rules require Va GOP delegates to vote Trump, a court will enforce that (if they are consistent with the rule of law) – unless the National Party rules invalidate the Va GOP rule.

    Trump is likely the only hope of stopping Hillary – and it is a slim hope.

    Trump is not doing the real work needed, there is no ground game, Hillary will beat Trump like a drum if the GOP and Trump don’t get their act together.

    Steve Malynn (1d7837)

  26. Senior United States District Judge Robert E. Payne today ruled in favor of Trump campaign delegates who had argued – in line with overwhelming public opinion – that RNC delegates must follow election results and that delegates cannot be stolen at the national convention. Delegate Beau Correll, Jr., had brought the suit against the Commonwealth of Virginia hoping to reject the will of the voters, but was soundly defeated.

    Specifically, the Court found that RNC Rule 16, which binds delegates based on their election results, “is in effect presently and that it controls the allocation and binding of delegates as to their voting at convention.” (p. 6) The Court held that the Plaintiff’s “expert testimony” from Erling ‘Curly’ Haugland was not credible, lacked “textual support,” (p.6) and that “delegates are bound by RNC Rule 16.” (p. 7)

    Further, the Court found that by signing the “Declaration and Statement of Qualification,” RNC delegates are bound by RNC Rule 16(c)(2) (p. 10), and that this Declaration obligated Correll to vote in accordance with Republican Party rules and Virginia’s election results. (p. 46)

    so, who’s wishcasting? all the #NeverTrump folks or the Trump campaign? and let’s be honest, Gabe has been headed leftward ever since he moved back to DC, so his analysis is, at best, suspect.

    IMHO, of course: YMMV

    redc1c4 (c3507e)

  27. He got more primary votes than any GOP candidate in history, but that’s not good enough for the sadsacks, naysayers, and sour grapes losers.

    ropelight (596f46) — 7/12/2016 @ 11:39 am

    He also got more votes against him than for any nominee in history. He also is the first candidate to not get a majority of primary voters.

    But that doesn’t matter, because TRUMP.

    Patrick Henry, the 2nd (ddead1)

  28. PH, have you noticed that Trump is the only candidate still in the race? All the others have either dropped out or suspended their campaigns? That reality should help inform your thinking, don’t you think?

    ropelight (596f46)

  29. ropelight

    I’m eagerly waiting for you to back up your incendiary accusations.

    So far you’ve failed to do that.

    And the best you can do is nitpick..

    Torcer (654698)

  30. Trump doing better in ‘open’ primaries; Cruz sees success in GOP-only contests
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/07/trump-doing-better-in-open-primaries-cruz-sees-success-in-gop-only-contests.html?

    12 Million Democrats voted in the Republican Primaries
    After a lot of work I have finished my math calculations. A simple effort will show that from 2000 to 2008 there was a change in Primary votes of 10-12 million. Ten million more Republicans and 12 million less Democrats. But this is child’s play. Getting deeper, examining States with close polling prior to the registration requirements, States with a clear winner in polls prior to registration change requirements, and you can set patterns.

    Using 2000 and 2008 as baselines, the conclusion was staggering. Trump only got about 3.3 million Republican Votes. The rest are Democrats, approximately 12 million of them.
    [..]
    Even in Oregon, a Closed Primary, we saw 110,000 change registration in time, and my calculations are approximately 80,000 voted for the perceived weakest candidates. They chose our Presidential Candidate, they chose our US Senate Candidate, and they chose our Governor Candidate. Ironically they did not vote strongly down ticket including for Secretary of State, and this assisted in my efforts to calculate the percentage who actually voted versus those who did not.
    http://www.redstate.com/diary/creinstein/2016/06/25/12-million-democrats-voted-republican-primaries/

    Torcer (654698)

  31. OK, Torcer, which incendiary accusations would you like me to respond to? Please list them.

    ropelight (596f46)

  32. Chuck Todd: Let’s face it–Trump is blowing this opportunity the FBI gave him to attack Clinton

    Still, Donald Trump has yet to push out an ad with key—and damning excerpts—from Comey’s briefing that shows Clinton is a liar. This is an ICBM strike in his “crooked Hillary” offensive and he’s not pouncing on the opportunity.

    The lack of ads is something that MSNBC’s Chuck Todd said any other presidential candidate running against her would already have on the air. Moreover, he added that there may not have been an actual indictment, but Comey did indict her on her judgment and her ability to keep a tight lid on state secrets. That seems like a key qualification to be president. And it’s something that Trump has said on the stump, which is that the former first lady is unqualified to be president due to her poor judgment. What’s the hold up?

    “I’m sort of stunned at how badly Donald Trump botching, what is to me, a gift…I don’t get the strategy of attacking Comey here either. Comey is not the person you should be attacking here politically. Comey you should be embracing if you’re the Republicans. Comey’s the one who you should be quoting. Comey’s the one you should be–by the way, do you know what every other presidential candidate were running against Hillary Clinton right now would already have on the air—excerpts of Comey…he indicted her politically. He indicted her judgment. He indicted her in some ways her qualifications to hold national security secrets. He said there’s no legal standard–and that’s fine, but he gave her a political indictment that under any other circumstances we would say this candidacy would be in big trouble. But because of Donald Trump –it’s like yeah maybe she can weather the storm.

    https://youtu.be/QVM4TtWdjxo
    http://hotair.com/archives/2016/07/08/chuck-todd-lets-face-it-trump-is-blowing-this-opportunity-the-fbi-gave-him-to-attack-clinton/

    Torcer (654698)

  33. Team Clinton thankful for Trump
    Hillary Clinton’s campaign has something to be thankful for in the wake of the FBI’s scathing criticism of her personal email setup: She’s running against Donald Trump.

    Clinton supporters acknowledged that the public criticism is bad news and will make it that much tougher for their candidate to improve on poor trust numbers with voters.

    The silver lining, they say, is that their Republican opponent is even less liked and trusted.

    “I don’t think it’s that hard given the liar she’s running against,” one Clinton aide said of Trump, the presumptive GOP presidential nominee. “Her opponent is going to help her just by being who he is.”

    Democrats say the comfort in those numbers is that their candidate does better in other categories than Trump, such as having the experience to be president.

    Still, they acknowledge Clinton would be in deep trouble against other opponents.

    “If she was running against [Ohio Gov. John] Kasich or [Florida Sen. Marco] Rubio, she’d be in real trouble and we’d be talking about finding another candidate before the [Democratic National Convention],” said Brad Bannon, a Democratic strategist. “What happened yesterday would be a deal breaker against someone else. … She’s basically walking on the edge with this kind of stuff.”
    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/286740-team-clinton-thankful-for-trump

    Torcer (654698)

  34. I withdraw my offer to respond to Torcer. He’s obviously an unhinged halfwit.

    ropelight (596f46)

  35. PH, have you noticed that Trump is the only candidate still in the race? All the others have either dropped out or suspended their campaigns? That reality should help inform your thinking, don’t you think?

    ropelight (596f46) — 7/12/2016 @ 12:22 pm

    No it shouldn’t. If we are talking about the will of the voters, than its not for Trump. He got $2 billion of free media, and with their help he fooled the voters.

    The delegates must make the moral judgement to not have a liberal, authoritarian, Democrat as their nominee.

    Patrick Henry, the 2nd (ddead1)

  36. Stay classy, ropelight.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  37. Are you forgetting what you said?

    Comment #4 ropelight (596f46) — 7/12/2016 @ 10:47 am

    But since you’ve absolutely failed to even begin to address them it is your credibility – or lack thereof – that is on the line…

    And I see the best you can offer is more of the same…

    Torcer (654698)

  38. I’ve been commenting here for almost a long as Patterico has hosted this blog. I may well be among the longest continual commenters here. My credibility has been on display for over a decade. If you want to question it, go right ahead.

    ropelight (596f46)

  39. F chuck does earn his name, inspector dreyfus was an enabler.

    narciso (732bc0)

  40. Torcer wants to remain “pure” to an ideal he cannot identify, but which appears to be only the resentment of the failed “pros” at the appearance of the gifted amateur. I recall it being expressed at Reagan in 1976 and again in 1980 as the “pros” ridiculed Reagan.

    In 2016, with 8 years to ransack a country of 300 million, the GOP couldn’t even field a serious candidate! It wasn’t even close! Because the GOP had become, as one noted, a party of donors, not voters. A party sucking up to the K street lobbyists instead of listening to the millions of voters. Sore losers too! Jeb! is so furious at not getting “his turn,” he snipes at Trump and thus supports Clinton from the sidelines. If Trump loses, we’ll have 4 years and 4 supreme court nominees to remind you of Jeb’s support for the team.

    Who would Torcer run against Clinton? Jeb! who couldn’t muster more than 6%?

    Vote for the one you want backing our military, nominating to the USSC, and putting America first. Or vote for 4 more of what we just had. Its not more complicated than that.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (5e0a82)

  41. Trump hasn’t won any nomination. This idea he’s already sealed the deal and if the nomination isn’t handed to him he’s somehow a victim is complete BS. He’s not even a Republican and the majority of the party saw through him, never voted for him, and definitely doesn’t want him to represent the party in any way.

    Trump fans upthread say their group refuses to vote for the GOP nominee if it’s not Trump. They will then turn around and demand we vote for Trump if he’s the nominee, but they already know Hillary will defeat Trump handily. They complain about Ginsburg but the only way to stop Hillary is to not nominate the guy who thinks she would be a great president.

    In reply to this basic truth, expressed directly and respectfully by Torcer, you get happyfeet’s ramblings and Ropelight’s insults and a lot of puffing of chests about reputations on the internet. But it’s still the truth.

    The majority of the GOP doesn’t support Trump. The majority of the Party as represented by our delegates would pick someone else. Trump isn’t entitled to anything from us and we shouldn’t let him accomplish his hostile takeover, largely won by his smears of good candidates carried free by the democrats in the media.

    Sure, in this hostile primary we lose some support no matter who we pick. But this is Trump’s weakest argument, as we clearly lose the most support if we stick with him, the guy who said Hillary would be a great president. If you’re just picking the guy who can win this is a simple decision.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  42. At any rate, the law is clear. Delegates should be free to vote their conscience. The GOP cannot force us to vote for a man who praised the Tienanmen Square massacre and other communist atrocities.

    If Trump is the nominee it will be because of a farce at the convention, and there will be severe electoral consequences for those who lacked the courage to do the right thing.

    I agree that the right time to stop Trump has passed, but that doesn’t mean we have to go along with evil.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  43. Dustin’s beating Torcer on the fact-free allegations and context-free quote market, GUD JORB.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  44. Mr. Trump is such a nice person I’m so glad he’s here for us to put a stop to stinkypig’s sick scheme to shove all them partial birth judges all up into the supreme court.

    He’s the right man at the right time, and he’s got the hat to prove it!

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  45. “Delegates should be free to vote their conscience. The GOP cannot force us to vote for a man who praised the Tienanmen Square massacre and other communist atrocities.”

    You’d go Tiananmen on Black Lives Matter Protesters in a heartbeat if it was your family on the line, stop pretending you have principles.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  46. “If she was running against [Ohio Gov. John] Kasich or [Florida Sen. Marco] Rubio, she’d be in real trouble and we’d be talking about finding another candidate before the [Democratic National Convention],” said Brad Bannon, a Democratic strategist. ”

    Torcer citing Democratic strategists as sources for what Republicans should do, #NeverTrumpers thus show themselves to be models of party loyalty and uncompromisting principle.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  47. You’d go Tiananmen on Black Lives Matter Protesters in a heartbeat if it was your family on the line, stop pretending you have principles.

    Dystopia Max (76803a) —

    No, I wouldn’t crush protestors under tanks if they were merely protesting the government, which is their right.

    Free speech doesn’t put my family in danger.

    Saying it does is generating a straw man to defend Trump’s praise of riots and violence to shut down free speech. If you’re twisting things so far that you’re saying the Tienanmen Square massacre was a good thing, then it’s difficult to take you seriously. You say I’ve avoided the needed context to save Trump’s evil remarks. Why then didn’t you provide it? I say there isn’t any. Proving me wrong would be easy except that I’m not wrong.

    #NeverTrumpers thus show themselves to be models of party loyalty and uncompromisting principle.

    You guys keep saying Trump fans won’t vote if Trump isn’t the nominee, so you kinda lost that party loyalty point a while ago. And Trump’s the guy who says Hillary would be a great president and donates to democrats, which is a lot more democraty than anything Torcer’s done. Try to stay consistent. It’s an important aspect of honesty. Your argument is incredibly silly. So democrats realize, just like everyone else, that Trump is losing to Hillary but many other candidates would beat Hillary (who is a very weak candidate herself). Therefore if you recognize this ‘sky is blue’ obvious point, you’re not a Loyal Team R hack. OK. So what? I am definitely not loyal to the GOP. I love my country, not some pack of politicians. The GOP means absolutely nothing to me, but if it’s led by a left wing New Yorker who gets crushed in the polls, it sets back the causes I do care about.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  48. “Actually, we don’t know why all of them did that – but we do know that this has taken place in the past with disastrous results.”

    WE MAY NEVER KNOW WHY WHITE WORKING CLASS PEOPLE ABANDONED THE ‘KILL WHITEY AND IMPORT MEXICANS’ PARTY, SAYS NOTED REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST ‘TORCER’

    “No, the fact is the media was providing very good coverage to Trump during the primaries. As has happened in the past.
    Now, the question is Why did they do that?”

    WE MAY NEVER KNOW WHY YOUNG COLLEGIATE STRIVERS WHO LIVE AND DIE ON CLICKS GIVE MASSIVE COVERAGE TO MAN WHO DRAWS MASSIVE VIEWER NUMBERS, SAYS NOTED REPUBLICAN MARKETING CONSULTANT ‘TORCER’

    “In the past they did so to select the worst possible candidate for the party.
    Does it bother you that they are doing the same this time around?”

    WE MAY NEVER KNOW WHY NO ONE TOLD ROMNEY, MCCAIN, AND BOB DOLE, THE PREVIOUS SELECTEES, WHAT THE MEDIA WAS UP TO.

    “The polls are changing as they always do – but they have been consistently showing bad news for Trump – can you address that issue please?”

    WE MAY NEVER KNOW WHY ‘INDEPENDENT’ POLLS TAKE SUDDEN AND UNEXPLAINABLE SWINGS TOWARD EVEN THE MOST TOXIC AND DISLIKED DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES WHEN MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN POLLER SALARIES ARE ON THE LINE

    “Actually, you failed to address those previous issues, so your circular logic response has no bearing.”

    WE MAY NEVER KNOW WHY SMART PEOPLE WON’T WASTE THEIR TIME WITH A CATCH OF A PUNDIT LIKE ME

    “Are you denying the various times when Trump has done things that can be argued as sabotaging his own campaign?”

    WE MAY NEVER KNOW WHY SMART PEOPLE DON’T GIVE “CAN BE ARGUED” THE TIME OF DAY

    “Strawman argument.
    The party has been a colossal failure – but bringing it down will only help the Left.”

    WE MAY NEVER KNOW THE VICTORIES THAT THE FEDERALISTS AND WHIGS COULD HAVE BROUGHT US HAD WE JUST STAYED THE COURSE

    “You really like using Strawman arguments don’t you?”

    WE MAY NEVER KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RHETORIC AND DIALECTIC NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES @VOXDAY SHOWS UP IN OUR MENTIONS

    “Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote as it refers to how history will judge those who supported Trump in the face of the overwhelming evidence that he should be replaced.”

    WE MAY NEVER KNOW WHAT INSTRUMENTS “HISTORY” WILL USE TO “JUDGE” THE BIG MEAN BULLIES WHO KEEP DISRESPECTING US WITH THEIR BIG NASTY BRAINS, BANK ACCOUNTS, AND MUSCLES, MAYBE AN “INVISIBLE HAND” WILL SLAP THEM MEANINGFULLY AND THEY’LL FEEL AS BAD AS I DO ALL THE TIME

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  49. Mr. Trump is such a nice person I’m so glad he’s here for us to put a stop to stinkypig’

    Yes, Trump is a nice person. Except he calls for riots if he’s not nominated. Americans would die in those riots. What a nice person.

    Trump said this ‘stinky pig’ would be a great president. Trump gave her a lot of money to be president. If you find her so terrible that you dehumanize her, how do you reconcile that with Trump’s terrible judgment to take direct action to help her be president? How do you reconcile Hillary being a dire threat with Trump’s apparent failure to unite the GOP at this late stage, apparent proof he would lose in the general election?

    You can’t. Trump can’t be a wise leader if the very thing you’re most against, Hillary, is the person Trump supported full bore so recently. And if winning is all that matters you wouldn’t back a loser.

    I again think the main reason you support Trump is that he’s a big middle finger in the face of so many of the rest of us. Yeah, he’ll lose, but in losing you kinda win twice.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  50. Dystopia, I didn’t read your comment with all the allcaps. Life is simply too short. Please try again.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  51. “If she was running against [Ohio Gov. John] Kasich or [Florida Sen. Marco] Rubio, she’d be in real trouble and we’d be talking about finding another candidate before the [Democratic National Convention],” said Brad Bannon, a Democratic strategist. ”

    Nobody’s bigger than the Clintons in the Democratic Party so that he or she could talk about replacing him. Little people drop out and get replaced as candidates.

    Sammy Finkelman (c82029)

  52. I personally don’t care if Trump had positive things to say about either of the Clintons in the past. So has George W. Bush and much more recently than anything Trump may have said.

    Of more interest to me is how #NeverTrump-ettes can reconcile not voting for him – should he survive the convention – if for no other reason than preventing more of this dogsh*t?

    “Chaffetz: Does an individual need a security clearance to review or have access to classified material?
    Lynch: Well, congressman, that issue would be dependent upon the agency for whom they worked and the nature of the work that they did with respect to…

    Chaffetz: Can you give me an example where you don’t need a security clearance to view classified material?

    Lynch: No, I believe as I was going to say, they would, but the type of clearance varies with every agency and the agency would make that decision and determination.

    Chaffetz: Is it legal or illegal to share classified information with somebody who doesn’t have a security clearance?

    Lynch: Congressman, it depends on the facts of every situation. You’d have to determine how that sharing occurred. You’d have to determine the means. You’d have to determine the reason, the intent, um, certainly depending on how you view the statute it could go any number of ways.

    Chaffetz: So you think there is a scenario in which you could share classified information with somebody who doesn’t have the requisite security clearance?

    Lynch: No, I would not draw that conclusion. I would say that I’m not able to answer it as a hypothetical but there are a number of factors that would go into the decision and one could have any number of results.”

    Colonel Haiku (ae69e2)

  53. ropelight

    Don’t blame me – You’re the one hurling baseless accusations You’re repetitively failed to back up with FACTS.

    Torcer (654698)

  54. Harcourt Fenton Mudd

    Perhaps you should try discussing what I actually wrote..

    Torcer (654698)

  55. Dystopia Max

    – did you miss the excerpts I posted?

    Torcer (654698)

  56. Dystopia Max (76803a) — 7/12/2016 @ 1:39 pm

    Would it be possible if you could try acting and conversing like an adult?

    I addressed each one of your points and the best you could muster was ALL CAPS bluster.

    Try again.

    Torcer (654698)

  57. Haiku, Let’s not conflate being polite with giving material support and repeated interviews in prime time to lift Hillary in her presidential campaign, and later to help her be confirmed as Secretary of State. Trump did that and he should take responsibility for that. Bush did not do that. If he did, Trump’s fans would be shouting about it, but they don’t care because they never care what Trump has done. It never matters.

    Of more interest to me is how #NeverTrump-ettes can reconcile not voting for him – should he survive the convention – if for no other reason than preventing more of this dogsh*t?

    That is interesting, but right now we’re talking about the only way to stop Hillary. Once Trump is nominated it’s just plain too late. Trump will not get those millions of democrat votes he got in the primary. They will be laughing their way to the ballot box, just as the democrats in the media laugh their way through the general campaign. Trump is at his zenith right now, and everyone on Hillary’s side is holding their breath hoping the GOP doesn’t turn away from certain disaster.

    A GOP run by a Hillary fanboy, who supports open corruption and violence against dissent, is particularly bad. Both parties being on board with New York lefty values is worse than merely one party being led by that.

    I see Hillary skate and I want to cast a vote for anyone opposing her, as impotent as that might be if Trump is the nominee. But I have principles and I refuse to support a guy who has done the things Trump boasts about. There’s not much difference between Hillary and Trump and I don’t care enough about the outcome to vote for a guy like that.

    But we can argue about that later, if the GOP signs its death warrant at the convention. Right now there’s still a way to win.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  58. Torcer says, You’re the one hurling baseless accusations You’re repetitively failed to back up with FACTS.

    Your silly opinions aren’t facts. And you’re a loud mouth fool kicking a dead horse. Your candidate lost, face it.

    ropelight (596f46)

  59. “Would it be possible if you could try acting and conversing like an adult?”

    I talk like a man. Ain’t never heard someone say “I acted and conversed with several adults today” who wasn’t either a problem child or a mental defective.

    “I addressed each one of your points and the best you could muster was ALL CAPS bluster.”

    You certainly typed some words in response to them, which may have made sense on Planet Kuk or wherever they let pundits of the losing party devise winning strategies.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  60. Like I have always said, the worst things about Trump are his supporters.

    nk (dbc370)

  61. “Dystopia, I didn’t read your comment with all the allcaps. Life is simply too short. Please try again”

    I’m told that using big, beautiful, letters to make big, beautiful points, especially against small-minded, petty, or delusional points that really cry for a public shaming, is a rhetorical device that quite effective. But go ahead and talk to me more about what’s politically successful, I’m all ears.

    “Like I have always said, the worst things about Trump are his supporters.”

    If you don’t like Americans, you’re perfectly free to elect yourself a new people, in a new country. Afraid that the TRUMPITUDE is rather contagious among Americans worth a damn, though.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  62. I damn Trumpkins constantly.

    nk (dbc370)

  63. Wasn’t Trumpkin the red-haired good guy in Prince Caspian?

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  64. Again, I’m wondering how these NeverTrump people can reconcile not voting for Trump – should he survive the convention – given the absolute certainty that we’d see more of the lawlessness, division, foreign and domestic policy disasters (aka ‘fundamental transformation”) that we’ve had to live thru under the Obama Gangster Government?

    Colonel Haiku (ae69e2)

  65. They’ve been living the out-of-power fleece-the-decline life for so long they have no idea what they’d do if they ever had to actually rule.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  66. Again, I’m wondering how these NeverTrump people can reconcile not voting for Trump – should he survive the convention – given the absolute certainty that we’d see more of the lawlessness, division, foreign and domestic policy disasters (aka ‘fundamental transformation”) that we’ve had to live thru under the Obama Gangster Government?

    If Trump does not want Hillary to be President, he should withdraw from the nomination.

    nk (dbc370)

  67. This sounds like “waaaah! I only want to be a delegate if I can vote for my guy even if he is a loser”
    The delegates candidate lost fair and square so get over it..
    He sounds like one of those vexatious litigants that sues a neighbor two blocks down for having a jumping house at their 5 year old daughters birthday party.

    I think he should cowboy the f up and go do what the voters sent him to do.

    There may be extreme problems with a Trump Presidency or even candidacy, but none of them are worth this type of smug elitism I see from some of the Never Trumpists (a Trumpist being someone who is so pissed off at or about Trump that they run all about, peeing all over themselves to avoid their duty)

    steveg (fed1c9)

  68. He might yet, voluntarily or involuntarily. He will not have effectively “forgiven” the $45 million or so in loans he made to his campaign until July 20. He’s waiting to see which way the wind blows.

    nk (dbc370)

  69. Dystopia, it’s amusing you think you’ve proven your manhood by insulting people on the internet.

    , I’m wondering how these NeverTrump people can reconcile not voting for Trump – should he survive the convention – given the absolute certainty that we’d see more of the lawlessness, division, foreign and domestic policy disasters (aka ‘fundamental transformation”) that we’ve had to live thru under the Obama Gangster Government?

    Colonel Haiku (ae69e2)

    Reconcile that with what? Not to go milhouse on you, but you reconcile two things into harmony. You’re saying Hillary would be a terrible continuation of bad trends (and I agree). If we really were voting ‘Is Hillary bad?’ then we’d be on the same page.

    To the loyal Republican foot soldier, Hillary is a democrat, therefore the analysis of who to vote for is over. But Trump, the democrat who is probably going to be the GOP nominee, is also “absolute certainty that we’d see more of the lawlessness, division, foreign and domestic policy disasters”. This makes voting for either of the candidates a little more complicated. Voting against either of them feels right. Voting for either of them feels wrong.

    So why on earth do you change the subject? The subject is whether we should nominate one of them. I’m saying ‘no.’ You want Hillary to lose more than anyone else here. Let’s at least talk about how to beat her while there’s still some time.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  70. The delegates candidate lost fair and square so get over it..

    The delegates choose the candidate. Trump hasn’t won yet. Most Republicans do not want him to be the nominee. Why should we force ourselves to nominate a democrat?

    There may be extreme problems with a Trump Presidency or even candidacy, but none of them are worth this type of smug elitism I see from some of the Never Trumpists

    Wait, so you’re saying extreme problems for our nation are not as important as how offended you are that someone is smug? Are you just pretending to be a Trump fan or is this serious?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  71. ropelight (596f46) — 7/12/2016 @ 2:53 pm

    Are you now denying the fact that you made those accusations?

    The ones made by you:

    ropelight (596f46) — 7/12/2016 @ 10:47 am Comment #4 of this thread?

    Torcer (654698)

  72. Dystopia Max (76803a) — 7/12/2016 @ 2:54 pm

    No, when you hurl insults and invective as you have that acting like a child.

    Try acting like an adult please

    Dystopia Max You certainly typed some words in response to them, which may have made sense on Planet Kuk or wherever they let pundits of the losing party devise winning strategies.

    Denial isn’t an argument.
    Try again.

    Torcer (654698)

  73. HMMM: Fox News suspends contract with Newt Gingrich amid high VP speculation.

    Earlier: A Trump–Gingrich Ticket Would Be a Riot of Rhetoric.

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/238503/

    Colonel Haiku (ae69e2)

  74. nk

    Like I have always said, the worst things about Trump are his supporters.

    If they could just act their age and try discussion the issues of the day without the personal insults and invective, perhaps they could garner some respect.

    Torcer (654698)

  75. Reconcile it with the 99.999999% certainty that we’d see much more of that fundamental transformation with the crowning of Hillary. You’ve already answered,Dustin, I’m hoping for a more seasoned response, thanks.

    Colonel Haiku (ae69e2)

  76. Sorry, I’m still project managing here…

    Colonel Haiku (ae69e2)

  77. Torcer, I don’t have a problem doubling down on my comments at #4 above. And, I don’t care if you like it or not. You’re a fool and I have nothing but contempt for your silly nonsense.

    ropelight (596f46)

  78. i wonder if Paterico is getting rich on all the page views from unhinged threads like this?

    redc1c4 (c3507e)

  79. it’s gotten very silly indeed, the curious thing is the events of orlando, ankara, dhaka and dallas you’d think would focus their attention,

    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/paris-terror-attacks/paris-terror-files-reveal-missed-opportunities-stop-attacks-n607451

    an interesting tale,

    narciso (732bc0)

  80. Donald Trump will be speaking at a rally in Indiana. Check it out on FOX NEWS live.

    ropelight (596f46)

  81. Reconcile it with the 99.999999% certainty that we’d see much more of that fundamental transformation with the crowning of Hillary. You’ve already answered,Dustin, I’m hoping for a more seasoned response, thanks.

    Colonel Haiku

    Sigh.

    The democrat is really scary and bad. I get it. Doesn’t seem like a very seasoned point of view.

    You never want to answer any point beyond this. Trump is terrible. That’s why I like to go back to the point that Trump tried to make Hillary president the last time she ran. Every bad thing you say about Hillary is included in Trump’s judgment. You can’t win the argument because he’s that bad. The GOP and the democrats both being hard left is terrible for the conservative movement. Trump destroys conservative hopes down ticket. Trump is going to lose to Hillary anyway.

    Your response to all that: Crickets.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  82. “Donald Trump will be speaking at a rally in Indiana. Check it out on FOX NEWS live.”

    – ropelight

    I’d rather just shake my head at your obsequiousness and then go on living my life.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  83. What self-respecting loyal American would ever consider voting for Hillary Clinton?

    Not the first one. Ever!

    ropelight (596f46)

  84. ropelight (596f46) — 7/12/2016 @ 3:54 pm

    What are you talking about?
    You made several baseless accusations that you utterly FAILED to back up – those are FACTS.

    And now you continue to further destroy your credibility with your childish invective.

    You should really know when you’ve LOST the argument.

    Torcer (654698)

  85. What self-respecting loyal American would ever consider voting for Hillary Clinton?

    Trump voted for her, donated to her, endorsed her, and otherwise did all he could to help her be president. Before running this round he met with her. And he is the only reason she has a shot.

    But don’t let that spoil what is a fantastic argument. Trump is not a loyal american, according to Ropelight. Obviously I as a loyal American can’t vote for him.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  86. OK, Torcer, I double dog dare you to explain why what I wrote at #4 is inaccurate. And, do try to be coherent.

    ropelight (596f46)

  87. If the delegates can just vote “their conscience” (read; as the party bosses and their big donors tell them), why do we even have primaries where the people vote?.
    Answer: to give legitimacy to the system where we supposedly have a government operating under the consent of the governed.

    Now, regardless how many votes Trump DIDN’T get, he got more than the number needed to give him the 1280 delegates all the smart set told us he would need and would never get. The question again, if those votes don’t count, why are we voting?

    You never Trumpers better get your minds right, if the Republican Party takes the nomination away from Trump, it means they don’t believe their authority comes from the consent of the governed, and they will never win another election. Not president, not senator, not house rep, not dog catcher.

    And that isn’t even saying anything about the oath to support the winner they all insisted everyone take, and they now dihonorably disavow.

    LBascom (e208fd)

  88. I wish people were as angry at Jihadists, North Korea, China, and Iran as they are at Donald Trump.

    That’s great that the holier than thou crowd has been voting Republican since they participated in straw polls in high school. But Hillary was a Goldwater Girl, so people do change. And that Ronald Reagan dude voted for FDR four times.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  89. LB,

    It’s kinda like a safety on the system. Trump hasn’t gotten a single delegate until they vote for him, and I don’t know how many are willing to do so.

    The reason we have a republic instead of a pure democracy is that the masses can make mistakes, especially in convoluted and manipulated systems like a crowded primary where the media makes sure the guy most of us didn’t want manages to win a plurality (which help of millions of democrats).

    that isn’t even saying anything about the oath to support the winner they all insisted everyone take,

    You never complained when Trump disavowed the oath. He broke the deal. It’s not like everyone else owes him anything now.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  90. “The democrat is really scary and bad. I get it. Doesn’t seem like a very seasoned point of view.”

    Nice straw man, Dustin. I listed reasons why she would be a disaster. Did I interrupt a dialogue you were having with yourself? If so, my apologies.

    Colonel Haiku (ae69e2)

  91. I wish people were as angry at Jihadists, North Korea, China, and Iran as they are at Donald Trump.

    Good point. The vast majority of Americans has an incredibly low opinion of Trump. Perhaps part of the reason is that as a celebrity on reality TV shows, the low info types know him better than they really know of other serious issues. But you can’t live in this fantasy land where people care about what you want them to. Trump has no chance. If beating Hillary really matters, the GOP needs to nominate someone with a chance of winning.

    No matter who we pick, it’s going to be very difficult to unify the party. We can see it’s not possible to do it with Trump.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  92. Nice straw man, Dustin. I listed reasons why she would be a disaster. Did I interrupt a dialogue you were having with yourself? If so, my apologies.

    Colonel Haiku

    Maybe there’s a seasoned person in your circle who can explain what a straw man is to you. I think you’re right that Hillary is really bad, for the reasons you say. No real need to argue about it.

    The problem is that you just stop the argument there. Hillary bad.

    But Trump is also bad. Not only is he dishonest about his politics, he appears to be on the same page as Hillary, because actions speak louder than words from a con man. So argument one, politically Hillary and Trump are a wash.

    Argument two, Trump will lose to Hillary. And he will destroy downticket races for conservatives.

    Argument three, Trump is crazy and far more reckless than Hillary. Hillary is corrupt and stupid, sure, but Trump praises dictators and has fits. He’s that guy who proves wrong ‘it could never happen here’.

    Three arguments you never respond to. Because you can’t. You may respond with mockery and insults now. 🙂

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  93. Look, Chumley, I’ve already stated I’d much rather see Cruz win the nomination (full disclosure: I’ve donated time and money to his campaign) and, should a challenge not succeed, I would still vote for Trump despite his buffoonery and litany of faults. I would do it in a heartbeat. I could write an essay on Clinton’s faults and the reasons why – for the sake of my kids and grandkids – I do NOT want to see this country suffer under 4 to 8 more years of far-left malevolence. But to what end? You can lead a mule to water, but you can’t force hydration. Now I expect you would disagree with that… perhaps contend that you could, via a forced enema and I say good luck to you, sir.

    But seriously… you don’t feel that way. That’s unfortunate, but entirely par for the course.

    Colonel Haiku (ae69e2)

  94. chumley, lol, coronello, I too thought cruz was worthy, but he made too many mistakes, I chalk it up to listening to alice stewart and glenn beck,

    narciso (732bc0)

  95. #71

    The lenses through which you read need calibrating back to the point where you can see both sides objectively

    steveg (fed1c9)

  96. what will another four years leave you with, bleedings and leeches I think.

    http://www.abqjournal.com/805999/presbyterian-pulls-out-of-obamacare-market.html

    narciso (732bc0)

  97. Yes, cue the barber pole and Steve Martin, narciso!

    Colonel Haiku (ae69e2)

  98. ropelight (596f46) — 7/12/2016 @ 5:17 pm

    You made the accusation, you have to back it up, understand?

    If you cannot your assertion is worthless.

    Torcer (654698)

  99. “To the loyal Republican foot soldier,”

    Implying that you aren’t, even when the Republican candidate wins more votes than any other Republican in history.

    “Hillary is a democrat, therefore the analysis of who to vote for is over. But Trump, the democrat who is probably going to be the GOP nominee, is also “absolute certainty that we’d see more of the lawlessness, division, foreign and domestic policy disasters”.”

    This man is arguing ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY on highly debateable events as an opener and he’s wondering why we’re being dismissive?

    “This makes voting for either of the candidates a little more complicated. Voting against either of them feels right. Voting for either of them feels wrong.”

    I MUST FOLLOW MY FEELINGS -Dustin, noted #NeverTrump mind-genius

    “So why on earth do you change the subject? The subject is whether we should nominate one of them. I’m saying ‘no.’ You want Hillary to lose more than anyone else here. Let’s at least talk about how to beat her while there’s still some time.”

    If you had a candidate, you would have run him in this thing called a ‘Republican primary’. Since you don’t, you support the Republican candidate who wins. Instead of supporting him, you’re echoing Democratic talking points and amplifying any bad news about Trump you can find to as large an audience as possible. You also continue multiplying pointless responses to all critiques even when utterly embarrassed.

    Conclusion: Torcer and Dustin are paid to do this.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  100. Trump is winning and he’ll beat Hillary is a landslide.

    If you really think that, then you are delusional. If the polls were closer, I might think Trump had a chance of winning. But Hillary’s ahead by double digits in some polls, and comfortably ahead in most others. Trump’s going to lose, and it won’t be close.

    Chuck Bartowski (211c17)

  101. “If the polls were closer, I might think Trump had a chance of winning. But Hillary’s ahead by double digits in some polls, and comfortably ahead in most others. Trump’s going to lose, and it won’t be close.”

    You don’t even know what poll-shifting events are going to happen today or tomorrow, and you trust polls to tell you what results will be six months from now? Would you feel better if we ginned up some fake polls for you?

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  102. WOW, didn’t have to wait long for that:

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/swing-states-2016-election/2016/07/trump-has-edge-in-key-states-225442

    So, you going to renounce #NeverTrump forever and step into the light, or you gonna keep saying BUT HE’S TOTALLY GOING TO LOSE LATER SO WE’RE ALL JUSTIFIED IN NOT STAYING LOYAL AND CAMPAIGNING THROUGH THICK AND THIN.!

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  103. Dystopia Max (76803a) — 7/12/2016 @ 9:19 pm

    I take you don’t care if you destroy your credibility making baseless accusations like that as ‘ropelight’has previously done.

    Please cite the FACTUAL evidence you have to back up that incendiary claim.

    If you cannot cite any your claim is worthless.

    Torcer (654698)

  104. This Harvard study is a powerful indictment of the media’s role in Donald Trump’s rise
    But, a new study by Shorenstein Center on Media, Politics and Public Policy at Harvard University casts serious doubts on my position as it documents not only the outsized coverage Trump received — from TV and digital media — in the early days of his campaign but also how overwhelmingly positive that coverage was.

    First, it notes that Trump received considerable media coverage during 2015 despite the fact that he was neither a leader in polls or in the fundraising chase — two indicators of uneven media coverage of candidates in past races, according to the Shorenstein study. As the study reports:

    When his news coverage began to shoot up, [Trump] was not high in the trial-heat polls and had raised almost no money. Upon entering the race, he stood much taller in the news than he stood in the polls. By the end of the invisible primary, he was high enough in the polls to get the coverage expected of a frontrunner. But he was lifted to that height by an unprecedented amount of free media.

    https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/files/2016/06/Screen-Shot-2016-06-14-at-2.16.13-PM.png&w=1484
    There’s more in the study about the tenor of the coverage on Trump. This chart in particular is hard to ignore.
    https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/files/2016/06/Screen-Shot-2016-06-14-at-2.24.14-PM.png&w=1484
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/14/this-harvard-study-is-a-powerful-indictment-of-the-medias-role-in-donald-trumps-rise/

    Torcer (654698)

  105. BUT HE’S TOTALLY GOING TO LOSE LATER SO WE’RE ALL JUSTIFIED IN NOT STAYING LOYAL AND CAMPAIGNING THROUGH THICK AND THIN.!

    Why on earth should I be loyal to any politician or party? (Just as an aside, I’m not even registered to the Republican party, so your comment about staying loyal is risible.)

    Politicians work for me, not the other way around. I am loyal to a party to the extent that it reflects my views on how government should perform. But when a politician or a party no longer reflects my views, I have no obligation to loyalty.

    Chuck Bartowski (8489f0)

  106. Well said, Chuck.

    nk (dbc370)

  107. “Why on earth should I be loyal to any politician or party? (Just as an aside, I’m not even registered to the Republican party, so your comment about staying loyal is risible.)”

    Staying loyal to a party bought a bunch of sub-90 IQ people a whole lot of govenrment money and valuable real estate in prime locations. If you wanted to stay loyal to a party that would, say, simply give you fair market access to that money and real estate, doesn’t sound like it would be too much to ask.

    “Politicians work for me, not the other way around.”

    It’s a democracy, genius. Politicians work for either individuals who give them large amounts of money or groups who give them large amounts of votes. Given your general stupidity on the subject, I’m guessing money isn’t so much on your negotiating table, so you’re just one vote among all the other Jose’s, Clintons, and Dawntravious’ of the world. Guess who comes cheaper?

    “I am loyal to a party to the extent that it reflects my views on how government should perform. But when a politician or a party”

    Or family, or country, even!

    “no longer reflects my views, I have no obligation to loyalty.”

    ‘I disagree with you, DAD’ always has such a fine pedigree of future life success. Very conservative!

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  108. Given your general stupidity on the subject

    Okay, Dystopia, that’s beyond the pale. I will argue a point dispassionately and logically, and I won’t stoop to personal insults. If you cannot or will not afford me the same courtesy, please don’t speak to me again.

    Chuck Bartowski (8489f0)

  109. I’m guessing money isn’t so much on your negotiating table

    If you knew anything about me, or the job I hold, you wouldn’t make such a statement.

    Why is it that so many Trump supporters behave so badly to people who disagree with them?

    Chuck Bartowski (8489f0)

  110. “Clintonistas have a nanny, we Trumpkins want a sugar-daddy”, Max explained. “Give us free stuff, too, or we’ll call you un-American and disloyal.” Ptooey!

    nk (dbc370)

  111. Hillary! to Bernie supporters: “You’ll always have a place at the troth table.”

    felipe (2457e9)

  112. #112 felipe,

    They might even have a place at the trough! (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  113. Perhaps even in the trough!

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  114. “I will argue a point dispassionately and logically”

    A ‘dispassionate’ and ‘logical’ person, to say nothing of a sociopathic/amoral one, does not make comments on Internet boards like “Politicians work for me, not the other way around” unless his name is Ed Koch, Sheldon Adelson, George Soros, or even Donald Trump. They tend to be able to buy their own platforms, or at least maintain their own Twitter accounts.

    “If you knew anything about me, or the job I hold, you wouldn’t make such a statement.”

    If you’re trying to influence policy by arguing on an Internet site, and don’t have the temperament for harsh rejoinders, especially when saying something on the maturity level of “Brandi Bazooms shakes her booty for me, not for my money”…maybe you should stick to your high-dolla day job and just throw money at politicans you like and their ‘expert’ election consultants. They might be ripping you off, but at least they won’t hurt your feelings!

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  115. Someone said “the worst thing about Trump is his supporters”. On the other hand, the thing that most helps Trump are his detractors. (Coming from me, a Cruz supporter who didn’t particularly like Trump) If you can figure a way to beat Trump at the convention (following the rules that have been in place for this election cycle) then go ahead and I could support that. However, if Trump is defeated by chicanery such as changing the rules in the middle of the game, that would be a travesty.

    Ken in Camarillo (17aa36)

  116. I heard that Rush said it was within the realm of possibility that Trump could win in a landslide. I’m starting to think that myself.

    Ken in Camarillo (17aa36)

  117. Someone said “the worst thing about Trump is his supporters”. On the other hand, the thing that most helps Trump are his detractors.

    True. Nothing makes me like Trump more than knowing Ruth Bader-Meinhof doesn’t.

    nk (dbc370)

  118. Ken-

    On your post #117, is it better for people to start accepting the pollsters calls and poll truthfully from here on out? I think the inevitably of said landslide would help reduce tensions and also make voter fraud schemes have to become more outlandish and easier to spot. Or would that dull the edges of a President-elect Trump to the detriment of his agenda’s implementation.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  119. I think the polls showing Trump leading in key states are the result of faulty polling methodology.

    Fewer then 10% – I think it was estimated a few years ago as less than 8% – of people called on the phone answer surveys. To get any kind of accuracy at all, a considerable amount of tweaking has to be done.

    It’s somewhat good, although there is the problem of polls tending to harmonize with each other as an election goes on, as each polling outfit looks at what the other polls are reporting and further adjusts its tweaks to make the results sound reasonable to themselves. They synchronize with each other, sometimes at the wrong values.

    Besuides this, which probably hasn’t hot yet, there is one big problem that I can see with polls about this election taht I don’t think a polling outfit would take into consideratiopn unles sthey do some real innovative thinking.

    It is that one category that they use to weigh the polling results is party affiliation. They are probably assuming that the percentage if people who identify as Republicans is fixed in the short to moderate term.

    But many people have left the Republican Party, at least in their own minds, if not officially (for maybe what, two thirds of the U.S. population, there is no official party registration) because of Donald Trump!!

    Because….

    They don’t want to vote for Donald Trump – the very thing being polled.

    So assuming that the number and percentage of “Republicans” in the summer of 2016 is about the same as the number or percenbtage of Republicans was in 2012 or 2015, is a gross error!!

    And therefore I think that the polls are overstating the percentage of people who, if the election were held tomorrow, would vote, or lean to, or think they would be more likely to vote for, Donald Trump in a 2-way race.

    Sammy Finkelman (372aad)

  120. “But many people have left the Republican Party, at least in their own minds, if not officially (for maybe what, two thirds of the U.S. population, there is no official party registration) because of Donald Trump!!”

    “Many.” To paraphrase Ann Coulter, HOW MANY F’ING LOW-VALUE REPUBLICAN CONSULTANTS DO YOU THINK ACTUALLY LIVE IN THE UNITED STATES?

    “Because….

    They don’t want to vote for Donald Trump – the very thing being polled.

    So assuming that the number and percentage of “Republicans” in the summer of 2016 is about the same as the number or percenbtage of Republicans was in 2012 or 2015, is a gross error!!”

    The number of ‘Republicans’ as measured by actual Trump voters is obviously much, much higher. The number of dedicated political ideologues across the spectrum is probably much lower, given how nakedly anti-partisan both major party leaders are.. Start dropping party affiliation except as an occasionally useful marker for racial and ethnic affiliation, and you’ll get much better and more reliable numbers. Also start reading Audacious Epigone:

    http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2016/07/more-than-50-of-respondents-in-latest.html

    Identity politics is the fullest expression of simple democracy. You want to turn the nation back into a republic, you best be learning it.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  121. Torcer @ 104:
    You really have to see that the Harvard study is a steaming pile of revisionism. I am/was a Cruz supporter, and I clearly remember the coverage Trump was getting: none of it was fawning or positive about any policy issues. Almost ALL of the coverage included mocking descriptions of the latest “outragious” thing that Trump said. As I said above, the best thing for Trump is the behavior and ridiculous assertions of his detractors.

    Ken in Camarillo (17aa36)

  122. There was a time when “conservatives” decried those who, once they got elected, ignored the implicit policy position that the “conservatives” thought those politician should support. They called them RINOs, traitors, and other pejoratives.

    Now, those same people are hailing as heroes people who got elected and actively want to ignore the explicit reason they got those votes, even going so far as to use a liberal judge to overturn a law that codifies a requirement to honor the will of the people as expressed by votes cast. It is absolutely impossible to differentiate between a #NeverTrumper and a low-information Democrat. They both hate Trump, they both are OK with a Hillary presidency, and both love to use the courts and obscure parliamentary games to achieve their goals, are OK with ignoring the American voter. Please explain how you are the “real” patriots when you actively embrace those who hate this country.

    prowlerguy (083617)

  123. prowlerguy at 123.

    It’s nothing like that, with me. It’s just that I believe in democracy. Trump got less than 13.7 million votes. Obama got more than 64 million votes. I have to go with the majority.

    nk (dbc370)


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