[guest post by JVW]
Wishing a very happy Father’s Day to all of you perpetuators of the perilous patriarchy. Feel free to treat this as an open thread since we’ll almost certainly end up discussing the presumptive GOP nominee for President by the fourteenth comment in.
– JVW
Pronounced "Patter-EE-koh"
E-mail: Just use my moniker Patterico, followed by the @ symbol, followed by gmail.com
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A special thought today to all of the dads who moved on to the great golf courses and fishing lakes in Heaven.
JVW (eabb2a) — 6/19/2016 @ 11:18 ami like Mr. Trump i bet he’s an awesome dad unlike Hillary
happyfeet (831175) — 6/19/2016 @ 11:22 amBy the second comment, I should have written. Happy Father’s Day, Mr. Happyfeet.
JVW (eabb2a) — 6/19/2016 @ 11:23 amyou too!
happyfeet (831175) — 6/19/2016 @ 11:26 amhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbM6WbUw7Bs
Dustin (2a8be7) — 6/19/2016 @ 11:38 amJVW,
You’re obviously attempting to exclude mothers. When will your overt sexism end?
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/19/2016 @ 11:48 amOne of the funny things about axiomatic set theory is the contradiction between the Axiom of Choice and the Axiom of Determinacy.
CayleyGraph (353727) — 6/19/2016 @ 12:08 pmThe axiom of choice state that, given a space of elements S and a collection C of sets of elements of S, there always exists a choice function f from C to S with the property that, for every set c in the collection, the element f(c) is itself an element of c. Essentially, the choice function “chooses” an element from each set in the collection. Incidentally, the space and collection are both sets as well, but I use synonyms to make it slightly easier to read.
The existence of a choice function follows as a logical consequence of the other axioms when the collection is finite, but not when the collection in infinite. In fact, if the collection is infinite, the additional axiom is necessary even when each set in the collection is itself finite. You can also do without the axiom of choice when you can use distinguishing properties of the elements of the space, but not if you can’t distinguish between them. The rule of thumb is that you need the axiom of choice to choose elements from an infinite collection of pairs of socks, but not an infinite collection of pairs of shoes (since the left and right shoe are distinct, but not the “left” and “right” sock).
Sadly, I haven’t studied game theory as much as I have set theory, so I can’t go into as much detail about the axiom of determinacy. My understanding is that a game is an object where two players make alternating moves; in this model, the word “game” is only used for entirely deterministic games, not games of chance (I’m pretty sure it’s restricted to games of perfect information as well). The axiom states that every game is determined; that is, that there exists a strategy for one of the two players that always results in victory. Of course, for finite games, this follows from the other axioms of set theory, but not for games that could potentially have a transfinite number of turns.
Both the Axiom of Choice and the Axiom of Determinacy are proven to be consistent with the other axioms of set theory. Specifically, if you build a model consistent with one axiom (or neither axiom), you can put together a submodel inside it that is consistent with the other axiom (or neither axiom). The two axioms aren’t perfect opposites, since you can’t conclude the Axiom of Determinacy from the negation of the Axiom of Choice. However, you can conclude the Axiom of Choice from the negation of the Axiom of Determinacy, and other mathematicians have figured out what additional assumption you need to add to the negation of the Axiom of Choice to derive the Axiom of Determinacy (I don’t remember what it is, though).
The reason I say it’s “funny” is because the names “Axiom of Choice” and “Axiom of Determinacy” sound like they’re talking about the question of free will, when it’s not the least bit obvious that there’s any connection between free will and either axiom. The contradiction between the concepts called “choice” and “determinacy” looks to exist in both concepts, despite there being no obvious structural connection. If you crafted a model of a thinking being inside of set theory, you might end up capable of concluding that your modeled thinker does or doesn’t have free will based on which axiom you assume, although I estimate that the intricacies of the model construction would have more to do with it than the way your underlying theory handles infinite collections.
Sadly, I haven’t studied game theory as much as I have set theory, so I can’t go into as much detail about the axiom of determinacy. My understanding is that a game is an object where two players make alternating moves; in this model, the word “game” is only used for entirely deterministic games, not games of chance (I’m pretty sure it’s restricted to games of perfect information as well). The axiom states that every game is determined; that is, that there exists a strategy for one of the two players that always results in victory. Of course, for finite games, this follows from the other axioms of set theory, but not for games that could potentially have a transfinite number of turns.
Yes, and furthermore, game theory suggests that all participants are fully aware of the rules of the game and that they are making choices that are informed and intelligent, not random or stupid. And I think that comes into play when you discuss the Axiom of Choice and the Axiom of Determinacy precluding free will. It’s entirely because game theory doesn’t always have a good way of taking into account foolish moves taken by an ill-informed player. (This is about all that I got out of my Game Theory course in college. I appreciate your interesting relation of game theory to set theory, as I never took a course in set theory.)
JVW (eabb2a) — 6/19/2016 @ 12:34 pmHmmm.
MD in Philly (34fa24) — 6/19/2016 @ 12:50 pmMy daughter said today that she is thinking about going into actuarial science…
Maybe I should have her explain those posts to me…
But I am certain that there is a positive correlation between understanding complex math concepts and the desire to do so.
MD in Philly (34fa24) — 6/19/2016 @ 12:54 pmHere’s a complex math concept:
If I have 4 mangoes and I give 2 mangoes to Perry, how many mangoes would I have?
4, because I would never give Perry any of my mangoes. He can go get some on his own.
If I have 4 mangoes and Perry takes 2 of my mangoes, how many mangoes would I have?
4, because I would teach Perry a physical lesson in what happens when someone steals my mangoes and I would take my mangoes back.
If I have 4 mangoes and in a 24 hour period, I don’t give any away and nobody takes any, how many mangoes would I have?
John Hitchcock (9aa31f) — 6/19/2016 @ 1:22 pm2, because they’re delicious.
Father’s Day just isn’t the same since my Dad died.
I’m not looking for sympathy or anything as I know I’m not the only one in that very large boat.
Just saying, every time I open a bottle of beer it’s with the Coast Guard bottle opener he have me. It stopped playing Semper Paratus a long time ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWyjL25bTOA
If there’s a battery in there that can be replaced, I haven’t figured out how. But I think I’ll pop one open and drink to my Pop, the Senior Chief. Drink to the foam, as Anchors Aweigh commands all good swabbies to do.
Along with rolling out the TNT. Not at the same time. That would be dangerous. If I were to drink around the TNT my Dad would have kicked my @$$. Thank’s, Dad.
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/19/2016 @ 1:54 pmAmazing how many people are ripping Vin Scully for his truthful and dead on balls accurate comments about Venezuela. Thanks to Socialsim and dictatorship, the country has collapsed. Yet many people think the place is just swell. Well, many liberal useful idiots.
Brian (4524c4) — 6/19/2016 @ 2:05 pmI’ve been to nine funerals with honors. My father’s was the eighth. My brother’s was the first. I do not want to hear “taps” again. I would like to remember my father without Taps playing in my head.
Richard Aubrey (472a6f) — 6/19/2016 @ 2:24 pmSorry to hear about it, Richard. I’ve been to, well, several in my time. Taps never ruined it for me, if you will permit me to put it that way. It neither amplified or mitigated the fact they were gone.
Eventually I hope someone plays Taps at my funeral because, despite what some idiots spew, I did serve my country. Also a rifle salute, and the cherry on top would be a fly by. Helos will do, if when I die there are still helos.
My monument will be, if my brother will let me go to town on the ’65 Galaxie, replacing the tired 390 with a raging bored and stroked mountain motor FE. Which I believe even the libertarian-inclined Patterico would arrest me for merely for contemplating it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qanlirrRWs
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/19/2016 @ 2:49 pmIf you can do all that with an engine that fits into a Mustang, imagine what kind of damage I can do to society with an engine that can fit into a Galaxie.
Clearly, I must be stopped.
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/19/2016 @ 2:53 pmI hear what you guys are saying, and DRJ you’re a well-regarded lawyer, so you’ve explained the legal aspects.
I’ve never been there to Disney World, so I’m unfamiliar with “the lay of the land” of this particular resort.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/19/2016 @ 2:58 pmBut I do have great familiarity with Disneyland. At Disneyland, if someone trips on a blade of glass, they have two representatives come out and take immediate statements from the “aggrieved” party as well as everyone standing within 50 feet of the incident. They leave nothing to chance, and their lawyers work every angle of every angle. So that’s why I’m a little hesitant to believe that their counterparts in Orlando have been so loosey-goosey with the prospect of predatory alligators. It may turn out they are totally negligent, but based on the predicate set by Disneyland, it would be a little shocking. Naturally, I’m very saddened that a precious little toddler was killed. I’m not marginalizing that fact in any way.
#17, Whoops, I posted that in the wrong thread. Cruz Supporter, you’re a dummy! (LOL)
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/19/2016 @ 2:59 pmI’ll play. ‘Land is in a state where trial attorneys have much more pull.
urbanleftbehind (9e6cb0) — 6/19/2016 @ 3:42 pmThe kid’s father is going to be damning himself every day of his life.
Richard Aubrey (472a6f) — 6/19/2016 @ 4:52 pmRemember Polly Klaas? She was stolen from her own home while her parents were there. Mark Klaas, her father, started the Center for Missing and Abused Children. I see him on television from time to time. He still looks frantic.
It’s always sad when such a young’un is taken from their family. Coping must be torture.
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/19/2016 @ 4:58 pmI’m watching Legends and Lies: John Adams: Ready for War” on FOX by O’Reilly. A good Father’s Day viewing.
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/19/2016 @ 5:05 pmHappy Father’s Day
mg (31009b) — 6/19/2016 @ 5:21 pmU.S. Open Champ
D.J.
And the USGA should rules jihadists should be hung.
I’m puzzled by AG Lynch’s decision to edit the tapes of the Muslim murderer negotiations to remove the Moslem murderer’s pledge of allegiance to the Islamic State. The Mahometan murderer was motivated by his belief in Islam and his pledge of allegiance to the Islamic State is clear evidence of his motivation. I’ve always considered every Mohamaten mass murderer and/or terrorist to be primarily motivated by their belief in Islam and understanding of the Koran but AG Lynch appears to feel that giving credit where credit is due should be censored from public hearing for the brief period during which the press will successfully sue to have the complete recording released.
Her censorship will likely have an effect opposite her intent – to mask the fundamental Islamic motivation of the bloody trash killing in the name of Allah.*
*Best wishes and hearty thanks to the moderate Muslims who successfully took Fallaujah. I’m especially impressed with the thoroughness with which they are examining all males above the age of 14 to determine potential allegiance to the blood cult. A few days and some minor discomfort on those whom they graciously bothered to take as prisoners is really a very small price to pay for efficent terrorist rat eradication.
Rick Ballard (534b65) — 6/19/2016 @ 5:33 pmHappy Father’s Day to all fathers who understand responsibility and know how important their example and guidance are to their progeny.
In ther news, from the most transparent administration evah… http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/06/19/lynch_partial_transcript_of_orlando_911_calls_will_have_references_to_isis_cut_out.html
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/19/2016 @ 5:36 pmonly if it pointed out, rick, the consensus to ignore the tabligh network’s tentacles from ft. pierce to san bernardino, to riyadh is really quite extraordinary actually it isn’t,
narciso (732bc0) — 6/19/2016 @ 5:37 pmI too would like to offer my hearty thanks and best wishes to those thousands of moderate moslems who came out in remembrance of and solidarity with the victims of the Orlando murderer. Their many parades, marches and gatherings from coast to coast to pay homage to the innocent blood shed at Pulse was enlightening. The massive amounts of donations of blood for the survivors and the generous monetary contributions for families of the dead and wounded were indeed heartfelt.
The moderate moslems have once again proven to be exactly what I’ve always said they were: mythical.
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/19/2016 @ 5:45 pmhappy fathers day, all.
yes, hoagie like unicorns and puyallups, there are exceptions, hirsi ali, jasser, but they are rare,
narciso (732bc0) — 6/19/2016 @ 5:48 pmNo, no, no – there aren’t any moderate muslims here in the States. You have to dedicate yourself to killing moslem fanatics wearing the opposing muslim team jersey to be a true moderate mohamedan. The traditional Persian/Arab slaughter is the clearest example – beyond that distinction there’s a lot of jersey swapping.
Rick Ballard (534b65) — 6/19/2016 @ 5:58 pmAyaan Hirsi Ali is an atheist, hardly a moderate moslem spokesperson. Jasser is the perfect moderate spokesperson used to convince squishy American liberals that islam is the religion of peace hijacked by bad guys who don’t read the Koran.
Happy Father’s Day guys.
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/19/2016 @ 6:01 pmthere’s team hafter, the kurdish auxiliaries, the kataeb al hezbollah, which one doesn’t belong?
narciso (732bc0) — 6/19/2016 @ 6:02 pmOn my parts, I would like to offer my hearty thanks and best wishes to those thousands of Lutherans and Buddhists who came out in remembrance of and solidarity with the victims of the Orlando murderer. Their many parades, marches and gatherings from coast to coast to pay homage to the innocent blood shed at Pulse was enlightening. The massive amounts of donations of blood for the survivors and the generous monetary contributions for families of the dead and wounded were indeed heartfelt.
nk (dbc370) — 6/19/2016 @ 6:19 pmDr, Zuhdi Jasser, bless his heart, means it. He is, at least, sincere.
And he has a snowflake’s chance in h2ll. If Islam is to be reformed, it must be reformed from within the Islamic world. Not by westernized Muslims like Jasser. And Jasser’s style of Islam can not survive in the Islamic world.
It’s the classic catch 22 situation.
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/19/2016 @ 6:25 pmMy Father’s Day will only be complete if the Cavs finish off the Pyrite State Debs.
John Hitchcock (9aa31f) — 6/19/2016 @ 6:27 pmah, nk if lutherans were preaching that gays had to be killed for compassion’s sake, in the church of the shooter two months ago, maybe you would have a point,
narciso (732bc0) — 6/19/2016 @ 6:27 pmWe sure showed ISIS, didn’t we? What with our weepy candle light vigils and teddy bear roadside memorials. The terrorists are on the run.
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/19/2016 @ 6:30 pmThere are a few, at least one, American Muslims like Jasser trying to do what he does.
MD in Philly (34fa24) — 6/19/2016 @ 6:30 pmIt would help their cause, as improbable and/or impossible as it may be, if our government would give them an audience and a platform to speak,
but not this or any other Dem administration.
Mateen and only Mateen is responsible for the Orlando massacre. Just because bigots want to lump all Muslims in with him, doesn’t mean that Muslims have to adopt the bigots’ point of view.
nk (dbc370) — 6/19/2016 @ 6:34 pmreally you think he thought this up on his own lonesome, he didn’t have a handler, snorfle,
narciso (732bc0) — 6/19/2016 @ 6:38 pmOf course Mateen didn’t have a handler. Ever security guard and questionably employed person I know takes luxurious trips to the other side of the world with ease.
Brian (4524c4) — 6/19/2016 @ 6:43 pmOr, when we run out of Teddy Bears to throw at them we can try Mercury Marine engines…
http://www.marinelink.com/news/mercury-engines-diesel391941.aspx
…and fitting the boats with a couple of Ma Deuces.
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/19/2016 @ 6:44 pmDid I mention my brief excursion into the career-killing field of harbor defense? Just bicurious.
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/19/2016 @ 6:51 pmAt least when I was doing it harbor defense was “bi” as it was a USN and and USCG operation.
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/19/2016 @ 6:54 pmForgot to include a link.
http://www.marinelink.com/news/mercury-engines-diesel391941.aspx
I wouldn’t want anyone to accuse me of lying.
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/19/2016 @ 6:57 pmAnd why should all Muslims identify with his handler? The gun dealer who sold him the guns and ammunition is the next most responsible. Why aren’t all gun dealers holding parades, collecting money and donating blood? And where are the Germans in this? The rifle was made Heckler & Koch and that’s a German company (which relates back to Lutherans, BTW, seeing as Luther was a German). And how about nightclub owners? It was a nightclub owner who got all those victims in one place for him.
I’ll repeat it. Just because bigots want to lump an entire group of people in with a criminal, it doesn’t mean that group of people has an obligation to play along with the blame game.
nk (dbc370) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:01 pmardilla gigante, it’s not about sig sauer, it’s about musri, and abu taubah and pappa siddiqui, and their counterparts in corona, chattanooga, killian, boston et al,
narciso (732bc0) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:04 pmHer censorship will likely have an effect opposite her intent – to mask the fundamental Islamic motivation of the bloody trash killing in the name of Allah.*
You are confusing motivation with excuse and self justification.
Mateen was a sociopath: more clearly so than, eg, the San Bernardino shooter. If he really did go to Pulse he would have built up in his mind imagined offenses and insults, nursing a grudge against, not gays in general, but that group of gays. Had he wanted to kill generic gays, he didn’t need to drive all the way to Orlando. Islam was merely the pretext that allowed him to justify himself to himself.
kishnevi (ceb37f) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:05 pmOf course Mateen didn’t have a handler. Ever security guard and questionably employed person I know takes luxurious trips to the other side of the world with ease.
The answer to that probably lies in Pa Mateen’s “non-profit”, and whatever its sources of funding were.
kishnevi (ceb37f) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:09 pmkishnevi, Islam likely offered a way out, not the motivation. Redemption. Like for the Chattanooga shooter.
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:12 pmit’s like how everyone’s lumping disney in with the alligator
happyfeet (831175) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:13 pmor it might could be dissimilar
happyfeet (831175) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:14 pmNo, happyfeet, they’re exactly alike. Alligators and Disney. Greedy. Eat as much as possible. Alligators are a big attraction for Disney. It makes a lot more money by having them around and paying off the occasional lawsuit than by not having them around.
Remember the Ford Pinto which would catch fire up when rear-ended? Ford knew about it but it calculated that it made more by continuing to sell them and paying off the occasional barbecue, than by recalling them. Like that.
nk (dbc370) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:20 pmSteve@49.
kishnevi (ceb37f) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:22 pmI don’t object to that.
I mean, I can envisage a not-out gay raised and living in a fundamentalist Protestant community doing the same thing. The key is that religion was the veneer, but sociopathy the real motive. All terrorists are sociopathic, of course, but in Mayeen’s case it is more obvious and central.
yes yes
and alligators are a key part of peter pan, and peter’s friend tink is integral to the Disney mythology
there’s a lot going here if you step back and look
happyfeet (831175) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:24 pmoh. the googles say it’s crocodiles in peter pan
nevermind
happyfeet (831175) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:25 pmActually any enclosed body of water in Florida is a possible gator habitat. Even sometimes backyard pools.
kishnevi (ceb37f) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:25 pmPretty much everyone here knows that.
But it is not something which everyone in Nebraska might know.
Are there, or are there not, countries where homosexuality is against the law and potentially (and at times actually) punishable by death?
Does the self proclaimed caliphate ISIS hold this view and act this out?
Did he or did he not pledge his allegiance to ISIS?
Whether he was a psychopath from way back or not, whether or not most self-identified Muslims in this country applaud his behavior or not,
Islam, as interpreted by many consistent with its writings, had a significant part in this, and a significant part of the Muslim community is involved as well.
Of course he didn’t need to drive far to kill “generic gays”,
but this was a particularly efficient way to kill a whole bunch of them at once. Were there other gay clubs of similar size closer to where he lived?
One could argue that he was simply trying to win his father’s approval and so he acted out his father’s religious views, what difference does it make?
MD in Philly (34fa24) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:26 pmOf course not all, but these “lone wolves” aren’t so loan.
There is no need for thanks, nk. The money donated and collected on behalf of the survivors fund at my Lutheran church last Sunday was given in the Spirit of Christ and requires no thanks. The prayers offered by the entire congregation (including my Buddhist wife who attended) were also done in the spirit of peace and love.
The fact that the murdering moslem was influenced by other murdering moslems must have missed your notice as did his upbringing, the things he said during the shooting, and his affiliations, proclivities and associations before the event. Only to the willfully blind, deaf and mostly dumb could islam not be considered motivation for a moslem to murder gay infidels.
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:27 pmhe was muscle, a simple trigger, that is clear, he scouted out alternative sites, but they weren’t effective for his purpose, to focus on him is to miss the point,
narciso (732bc0) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:28 pmQuestion relating to the Orlando massacre
kishnevi (ceb37f) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:29 pmDo we know that all 49 victims were shot by Mateen?
It is after all possible that some were victims of “friendly fire” from the SWAT team as it engaged with Mateen.
I haven’t seen any information even hinting at that question.
kishnevi,
The police chief acknowledged that was possible, because of the close quarters and the cement block wall in the area where the shootout occurred.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:32 pmwhat is instructive is how willing as in boston, the left is to throw a constituency under the bus,
narciso (732bc0) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:35 pmThere is no, I repeat, no, none
MD in Philly (34fa24) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:35 pmWidespread hatred of homosexuals among “fundamental protestant congregations”. If by “fundamental protestant” one means someone who thinks God exists, that Jesus was God incarnate on earth, died to pay the penalty for our sins, that any sex outside of marriage is sinful and homosexual practice is sinful, I have been part of that group for over 36 years,
I have never met anyone who advocated violence against homosexuals.
I am sure some exist, but they do not lead major denominations like Muslims lead countries.
probably only the westboro baptists, who should just go on and convert and spare us any more embarassment, there was that other idiot pastor up in northern california, note how quickly they found him, but not a more proximate cause,
the fundamental issue lies in Joshua 24, as to where this land is going,
narciso (732bc0) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:39 pmNot to be flippant, but that the intended victims turned into human shields for the terrorist, will be seen as a bonus to other “martyrs.” I would hesitate to release such info.
felipe (6bb3ce) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:40 pmhttp://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/health/orlando-shooting-acts-of-kindness-trnd/
You don’t need to read through it. Just go to Edit go to Find type “Muslim” and “CAIR”.
nk (dbc370) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:44 pmyes, isn’t new, either, abbaoud sent a fellow with those precise instructions who were nabbed prior to the second paris attack,
narciso (732bc0) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:45 pmHow much of a difference does it make if Mateen killed “only” 40 of them, what is the point?
Many, if not most or even all of the major world clerics of Islam agree with this, which is why countries have the death penalty. There are no similarly respected Christian leaders who advocate violence against gays. I imagine there are some with circles of influence, but no one I would recognize.
If you want to talk about people who think homosexual behavior is sinful and encourage people to turn from their practice and seek God for forgiveness and for grace to change, just like other sinful behavior, sure.
MD in Philly (34fa24) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:47 pmDoc @63 you are entirely correct. While Sharia in all its forms condemns homosexuality in no uncertain terms and prescribes the death penalty it is still a legal system. No civilization, and Islam is a form of civilization, gives the lone wolf the authority to act as judge, jury, and executioner.
I can’t thank you enough for correcting me about this. I do not want to go off on the rails about this. Islam might have a great deal to say about this or that being wrong. But it also has a great deal to say about how this or that is to be addressed and adjudicated.
Well done, doc.
Steve57 (ecac13) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:49 pmit doesn’t, paul was speaking of the ultimate judgement for such behavior, not temporal consequences now,
narciso (732bc0) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:49 pmone of those moderate folk, sarc,
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/5523.htm
narciso (732bc0) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:52 pmnarciso, as it sometimes happans, I am not sure what you are driving at.
Paul was an apostle of Christ. Paul has, what, to do with Islam?
Yes, the wages of sin is death in Christianity. But that is not a commandment of God to his people, to inflict that punishment by their hand.
It is in Islam.
It is a very different religion.
Steve57 (ecac13) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:58 pmWell, wasn’t trying to correct you about anything, 57,
MD in Philly (34fa24) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:59 pmjust reacting to the idea that a troubled person out of a “fundamentalist protestant” background would have a similar ideological framework as a launch pad.
Paul said that the wages of sin is death, not that we are to kill sinners,
MD in Philly (34fa24) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:01 pmas in Islam.
That is what narciso was saying.
MD in Philly (34fa24) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:01 pmif more people read the bible, they might get a better notion of it, but it is terra incognita for the likes of the times editorial board,
narciso (732bc0) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:05 pmt
The Parable of the the Minas ought to be the favorite part of the Bible for atheists and varied and sundry non believers.
Luke 19
No return, no judgement.
Steve57 (ecac13) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:16 pmI may have read it wrong. I am sorry for the error.
Steve57 (ecac13) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:18 pm“No civilization, and Islam is a form of civilization, gives the lone wolf the authority to act as judge, jury, and executioner.”
A shaheed pledged to Islamic State, killing in dar al-Harb (as defined by the muslim headchopper of the moment), gets a pass plus 72 virgins. I’ll believe in muslim jurisprudence when I see the decrees and condemnation of this shaheed published in Qum and Mecca.
I won’t hold my breath while I wait though.
Rick Ballard (534b65) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:19 pmIn my defense, narciso in his nearly divine mysticism does not always make himself clear.
Steve57 (ecac13) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:21 pm@79, when ordained by the caliph. Hence the importance of the calipate, which is what the MB has been trying to reintroduce since 1928. Simple, No? Not exactly.
Steve57 (ecac13) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:42 pmIt is really, really hard to try and unf*** Islam over the intertubes.
Not even Islam can unf*** Islam in 1400 years.
Steve57 (ecac13) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:44 pmWell, wasn’t trying to correct you about anything, 57,
just reacting to the idea that a troubled person out of a “fundamentalist protestant” background would have a similar ideological framework as a launch pad.
MD in Philly (34fa24) — 6/19/2016 @ 7:59 pm
He would have such a launch pad. Leviticus 18:22. And also the incident of Pinchas killing Zimri and his Moabite paramour in Numbers.
And there was a Jewish zealot who acted it out last year. Sunce Israel is rather strict on gun laws, he used a knife and killed only 1 person and injured 6
kishnevi (ceb37f) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:45 pmhttp://www.cnn.com/2015/07/30/middleeast/jerusalem-gay-pride-parade-stabbings/index.html
— AG Lynch
Obviously she doesn’t understand the meaning of the words “as much information as possible”.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:48 pmGuys, I need help.
I’ve been thinking about voting for Trump.
Dejectedhead (6f5781) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:48 pmyes, it’s full vizzini, call it the susan rice express,
narciso (732bc0) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:51 pmIf it’s a matter of mobility issues, we can bring a ballot to you.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:53 pmI have one mailed to me. It’s only a matter of checking a box.
Dejectedhead (6f5781) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:54 pmOkay.
Let’s see if this helps.
Friends, Romans, registered voters, lend me your ears (YouTube).
Holling Vencoure has picked up the gauntlet thrown down by Edna Handcock.
We have a mayoral race, folks.
To which I can only add, alea iacta est.
The die is cast.
The battle is joined.
Hold on to your hats, Cicily.
We are about to bare witness to that sacred rite when each and every one of us become acolytes before the altar of the ballot box; our secular shrine.
Fellow Cicilians, my heart is pounding, dancing to the drum of a free people, a city on a hill, “E Pluribus Unum“.
I feel as one with Whitman, shepard of the great unwashed.
O’ Democracy. Near at hand to you a throat is inflating in joyful song.
My friends, today when I look out the window I see not a town, but a nation’s history written in minature. Inscribed in the cracked pavement. Reverberating from every passing flatbed.
Today every runny nose I see says America.
We were outcasts! Scum!
The wretched debris of a hostile ancient world.
But we came here. We paved roads. We built industries. Powerful institutions. Today I pay tribute to a nation of free people, the country Whitman exaulted.
The genius of the United States is not best or most in its executives or legislatures, nor in its ambassadors or authors or colleges, or churches, or parlors, nor even in its newspapers or inventors, but always most in the common people.
— Walt Whitman
Fellow citizens, we can not escape history. The fiery trial through which we pass, will light us down, in honor or dishonor, to the latest generation.
— A. Lincoln
“As life is action and passion, it is required of a man that he should share the passion and action of his time, at peril of being judged not to have lived.”
— Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
When I was 9, I was fishing with my uncle Louie Moyer when he suddenly smacked his forehead.
Told me to cut my line.
He had just remembered it was election day.
That was ’72, Nixon and McGovern.
No contest really, but Louie had been to Vietnam.
He hated Nixon.
After he voted he put his arm on my shoulder.
“Well,” he said, “I guess I showed him.”
I’ve never been more proud of being a Cicilian. I must go out now and fill my lungs with the deep clean air of democracy.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:57 pmthey should have put in the entertainment section,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-husseini/noor-zahi-salman-everythi_b_10492540.html
narciso (732bc0) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:59 pmGuys, I need help.
I’ve been thinking about voting for Trump.
Dejectedhead (6f5781) — 6/19/2016 @ 8:48 pm
Is that the New York corrupt liberal with the combover and blue suit with a red tie, or the New York corrupt liberal with the pageboy and pantsuit with Nehru jacket?
nk (dbc370) — 6/19/2016 @ 9:07 pmIs that the New York corrupt liberal with the combover and blue suit with a red tie, or the New York corrupt liberal with the pageboy and pantsuit with Nehru jacket?
Nehru jacket – ;D
So it comes down to a matter of competence then? Donald Trump in a landslide.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/19/2016 @ 9:16 pmCompetence at what? Being corrupt?
nk (dbc370) — 6/19/2016 @ 9:39 pmWe had a very good chance at having a very good President.
nk (dbc370) — 6/19/2016 @ 9:59 pmTrump deprived us of that chance.
I am not going to reward him for it with my vote.
Let him go scratch among his suckers who like his plum lolly.
It will be an interesting experiment.
How many suckers can a plum lolly get to suck it.
I don’t think there will be all that many.
Your problem is you believe in your own BS.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/19/2016 @ 10:57 pmkishnevi @83 etc., has it never occurred to you I have all of that juvenile BS which I have heard a million times covered?
Steve57 (ecac13) — 6/19/2016 @ 11:31 pmWhat’s a Cicilian? I just have to know.
Steve57 (ecac13) — 6/20/2016 @ 12:35 amkishnevi-
MD in Philly (34fa24) — 6/20/2016 @ 4:08 am“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” would be the fundamentalist protestant perspective.
“A” Jewish zealot? When there are Jewish governments that make homosexuality punishable by death I will acknowledge the equivalence.
MD in Philly (34fa24) — 6/20/2016 @ 4:11 amWhy, a fan of course: https://www.facebook.com/quincyciciliaOFFICIAL
Probably explains the fixation with paternalistic, authoritarian government.
Luke Stywalker (649dfa) — 6/20/2016 @ 4:41 amOne of the bits on Northern Exposure is “Chris in the Morning”, their radio DJ for the town (they only have one).
What I did was take Chris in the Morning‘s commentary for the episode “Democracy in America”.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/20/2016 @ 4:41 amReproduced it pretty faithfully.
Cicily Alaska is the town the show is set in.
After an emergency meeting with nk and other squishy left wing RINO’s, Loretta Lynn came out this weekend with the following:
Both Lynn and nk were unavailable for comment due to previous anti gun rally commitments.
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/20/2016 @ 4:52 amThat reminds me so much of when that Jap-loving traitor, FDR, would not permit American radio stations to re-broadcast Tokyo Rose. On the other hand, LBJ and Nixon, freedom-loving Americans, had no problem with Jane Fonda expressing her support for North Vietnam.
We want our First Amendment rights!
nk (dbc370) — 6/20/2016 @ 5:23 amI’m wondering if I helped, Dejectedhead.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/20/2016 @ 5:40 amThe nerve of the government of the United States to deny a terrorist who killed 49 people a platform for his ideology and ISIS a recruiting tool for more terrorists.
nk (dbc370) — 6/20/2016 @ 5:42 amIt’s not my bag baby, but if secrecy is your thing, we got a candidate for you.
With her you’ll always have the idle wonder if the Russians are giving us the straight scoop.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/20/2016 @ 5:48 amYes that’s it, just chalk it up to a video.
narciso (732bc0) — 6/20/2016 @ 6:13 amFrom the bloody streets of Chicago, it’s Radio GooGoo all day, all of the time.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/20/2016 @ 6:30 amThey’re denying no such thing and you know it. They’re trying to deny the information about who the enemy is from the low info American people. Just like when they refuse to name them in interviews and news stories. It’s called lying by omission. Don’t encourage lying, nk. When did you make the move to leftism?
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/20/2016 @ 6:53 amExactly what is that dumbass irrelevant comment mean? And what do Tokyo Rose and Jane Fonda have to do with a moslem murderer? As far as I know neither women murdered anybody.
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/20/2016 @ 6:59 amDrumming up hate against all Muslims from the low-info voters versus making Mateen a hero to ISIS and its would-be recruits is a matter upon which reasonable ministers of propaganda can disagree.
nk (dbc370) — 6/20/2016 @ 7:07 amI don’t think that letting American citizens be aware of what to be on the lookout for is a matter of propaganda. Nor do I believe telling the truth about Mateen being a murdering moslem and loyal ISIS follower would recruit someone any more than letting us know he was a democrat encourages people to register democrat, do you? You need to stop thinking that everybody but you is stupid like the leftists do.
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/20/2016 @ 7:21 amDejectedhead takes the red pill, and we were here to see it.
Like a wave of sanity welling up from his gut.
Give him room. Let him catch his breath.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/20/2016 @ 7:24 am24. Rick Ballard (534b65) — 6/19/2016 @ 5:33 pm
They’ve been doing that sort of thing ever since right after September 11th. They didn’t want the messages from Osama bin Laden broadcast. As well as the people jumping off the buildings, or later the inadvertantly recorded videotape found in Kandahar, Afghanistan of Osama bin Laden discussing it, which an still be found on the Internet though.
The idea was it was a threat, and made him look powerful, or that it contained a hidden message. Pictures of victims are maybe supposed to make people feel bad, or scare them. The whole idea is stupid, and just makes it harder to understand this. But once done, it’s hard to argue it is unnecessary. They’re doing something.
They are not all moderates. There are also Iranian backed militia, although the U.S. avoided co-operating with them and place to the sidelines.
You talk like this is a physical examination, but that can’t be. I don’t think they use tatoos.
Sammy Finkelman (7a22e4) — 6/20/2016 @ 7:24 amThey’re not looking for tattoos Sammy, they’re looking for foreskins.
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/20/2016 @ 7:30 amDejectedhead becomes an instant pariah.
Rev. Hoagie® (734193) — 6/20/2016 @ 7:36 ampapertiger, thanks for the response @101. That cleared things up r.e. the cicillian thing.
But then, after I clicked on your Northern Exposure link I developed a whole new list of questions.
Is it just me and my evil browser settings or does everyone who visits that site see the invites of married women who want to “play with me,” “gorgeous” Russian women, and the hot Asian chicks who are desperate for older white gents like me?
Back in the 80s I had to put in some hard work to get a port visit like that.
Steve57 (ecac13) — 6/20/2016 @ 7:38 amThey must know something about you Steve.
All I get are mastercard ads, and Donald Trump bumperstickers.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/20/2016 @ 7:59 amNah. Just kidding. I get the same ones with Russian girls that you got.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/20/2016 @ 8:01 amI live my life as a pariah and I haven’t committed to voting yet. I think I’ve considered it because I’ve stopped paying attention to politics since Trump won Indiana.
Dejectedhead (787359) — 6/20/2016 @ 8:18 amDejectedhead,
I think you should vote for whomever you want, including Trump if that’s what you want. We will never know who the best choice is because we will never have both as President, so we can compare their performance.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/20/2016 @ 9:15 amI stopped paying as much attention, too, Dejectedhead. It’s helped me.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/20/2016 @ 9:17 amIt’s probably the right idea too, ignoring political news. There’s no way the media is going to report straight.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/20/2016 @ 9:29 amThe things they say about Trump, you have to get a second opinion, and a third, just to prove it happened.
The stock market is up today because polls show that the chance of Britain remaining in the EU has increased. I have yet to see any clear explanation of why Britain exiting the EU would be bad for the global economy or stocks.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/djia-points-to-200-point-gain-as-polls-show-brexit-support-weakening-2016-06-20?siteid=yhoof2
Gerald A (945582) — 6/20/2016 @ 9:33 ambecause they lose the magic hat.
narciso (732bc0) — 6/20/2016 @ 9:41 amYou are correct. But again, it’s important to know Muslim eschatology. And if you work for a guy ideologically committed to the idea that Islam has nothing to do with terrorism you won’t be permitted to know Muslim eschatology.
Steve57 (ecac13) — 6/20/2016 @ 6:55 pmSince this is an OT thread,
and it has to do with my daughter,
here is a question, or two,
There is a complaint that her cell phone downloads slow compared to that of her friends,
as well as our downloads are slow on our computer at home, and the corresponding wi-fi as well…
Learning patience is a virtue,
sometimes so is problem solving.
We have Cricket cell phone, I don’t know how much better others are
We have internet over our Verizon phone lines, we don’t have cable TV
She has an iPhone, not the most recent, but I think the newest available last summer.
Our Wi-Fi station was a pretty powerful one as of 3 years ago.
Do cell phones get clogged up with stuff and need to be cleaned out?
Thank you very much for whatever time and expertise can be shared.
MD in Philly (34fa24) — 6/21/2016 @ 6:59 amMD, when that happened to us, it was because AT&T had oversold the area. It had also lost a tower to a storm and not replaced it. Not enough signal or bandwidth for the number of customers. It kept lying us to that the problem was at home.
nk (dbc370) — 6/21/2016 @ 7:11 amThanks nk.
MD in Philly (34fa24) — 6/21/2016 @ 11:40 amYeah, we’ve had that with our phone line that intermittently has trouble in bad weather. They say that the problem is in the house, our electrician says, “Yeah, they told me that once too”.
You’re welcome, MD.
BTW, your temporary cache should not slow down your computer. What might slow it down is a bloated registry, but clearing that is a job for an expert, unless you know exactly which registry key(s) you want to delete. There’s a danger that you will disable programs you need.
nk (dbc370) — 6/21/2016 @ 12:26 pm24. Rick Ballard (534b65) — 6/19/2016 @ 5:33 pm
Sammy Finkelman (7a22e4) — 6/20/2016 @ 7:24 am
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/20/2016 @ 7:30 am
They are all supposed to be Moslems there and should be circumcised. This is not an area where you have many Christians.
The end result is I have no idea what he was talking about. Was it maybe something about ISIS checking for Christians?
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 6/21/2016 @ 12:46 pm