Patterico's Pontifications

5/11/2016

On Political Persuasion

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:37 pm

Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back. — John Maynard Keynes

Dafydd ab Hugh writes (all emphasis in his original):

Pat,

Of course I’m all in favor of the Constitution of the United States, and I’m looking forward to your Constitutional Vanguard. But that fine ideal has virtually nothing to do with the vote. If we want to advance constitutional ideas, we must focus instead on the “package” that delivers the understanding, persuasiveness, and ultimately the votes we need… for that package is our catastrophic failing.

This election has driven home that the great majority of voters do not vote on the basis of logical argument; if they did, Ted Cruz would be cruisin’ to the nomination. But — and this is the important message — choosing a president by means other than formal logic is not a defect in the American people. Logic is but one element of intelligence; there are many others: human intuition, experience, a moral code, comity, emotion, unity, ideology, hierarchy… each of these ways of reasoning evolved, over tens of thousands of years, for a reason: Each of these delivered benefits ranging from mild pleasure to survival itself. Logic is vital but not all-encompassing.

A quarter century ago, I thought up a new analogy to categorize people, the Bonesian/Spockian axis. The Star Trek character Doctor McCoy, alias “Bones,” represents pure emotion, while “Spock” presented pure logic. (In our current, real-life crisis, we have the Bonesian Donald Trump and the Spockian Ted Cruz.)

This is the critical point: There are many, many more Bonesians than Spockians, by one or two orders of magnitude. If you dismiss the Bonesian voters as fools, if you try to “logic” them into line, you are guaranteed to lose the election. You need outreach to the great majority who make their decisions, not on debate-logic, but on other ways of knowing.

Both Bonesians and Spockians use rational means to make important decisions. The fly in the ointment is that each person uses his own rationality, and none is superior to all others. No one form of rationality is sufficient by itself; we must strive to achieve the Kirkian mean, represented by Captain Kirk. His “super power” is understanding both formal logic and all the other ways of knowing, then translating from one to the other. (Picture Ronald Reagan.)

Bluntly put, and upon reflection, Ted Cruz lost because he deserved to lose: He had only one arrow in his quiver: debate-logic. He is a truly great debater in the sense of a formal legal debate, and that is a very important ability, without which a president would stumble around like a punch-drunk fighter.

But Cruz fell far short in the alternative ways of deciding: the ways that are tremendously more persuasive to the typical voter. Reagan was a top-rate logician, but that’s not why he was elected. People voted for him in a landslide because he was one of us, because he gave us hope, we trusted him, he was a great leader, and he spoke our language. Each of these is a rational way to choose; none requires debate-logic. The candidate uses logic to decide the right course of action, but he must deliver his policy in a language more persuasive to the Bonesian voter. Alas, he couldn’t (or wouldn’t) do it.

Trump, by constrast, has no capacity for logic, nor many other Reaganesque aspects listed above. In fact, he may have only one: Trump speaks the language of the common American. A few others did, but they lacked other elements, such as grandeur, leadership (real or feigned), decisiveness (ibid), and unity. For example, Marco Rubio came across as two-faced because of his earlier flirtation with unrestricted immigration. Rand Paul was too esoteric and oddball. John Kasich was low-energy and seemingly had no intent of instituting real change. Trump has the language, and he is a skilled enough con man to ape what he lacked.

Thus, all the candidates one both sides were flawed, virtually crippled. I still believe Cruz was the best candidate… but he will never be elected president until he learns how to persuade voters by means of understanding apart from debate-logic. Spockian logic must be married to Bonesian persuasion, because that’s where the votes are found.

I love your Constitutional Vanguard, but I think you’re barking up the wrong tree: We don’t need to revamp constitutionalism; we must learn how to translate it into the speech of ordinary humans.

Now I don’t want to get off on a rant here, but . . .

I think this is an amusing analysis and there is something to it in the abstract. Obviously, emotion and intuition are important to decisionmakers of all stripes, including jurors and voters. This is not a surprise.

As I will show, however, it makes no sense whatsoever as an explanation for Trump. And it certainly does not show that I’m “barking up the wrong tree” by focusing on Constitutional principles, liberty, and free markets.

I’d like to start by complimenting Dafydd on his well-reasoned piece. I note, not without some irony, that I mean it as a compliment to call it “well-reasoned.” After all, that’s what Dafydd is doing: using logic, reason, and argument to appeal to me — and, by extension, anyone I might share his argument with. He could have just repeated “your stupid” 1000 times — and indeed, that mode of argumentation would probably be more compelling to Trumpers, especially with the misspelling of “you’re” — but if Dafydd were to argue that way, he would insult our intelligence and his own. So, by the very nature of his argument — by phrasing it in intelligible English, placing his thoughts in a logical structure, and using bold type and italics to emphasize his key points, among other things — Dafydd shows that he believes that well-articulated arguments can be convincing to some. Sure, he views his audience (me and my readers) as heavily “Spockian” — but at least he concedes that there is room for an appeal based on logic.

Ah, but his point is that, to the vast majority out there, logic isn’t enough! And I agree with him. Where I disagree is the notion that the Trump phenomenon can be explained by Trumpers being “Bonesians” while non-Trumpers are “Spockian.”

Surely Dafydd would admit that some people are just stupid. Can we all agree to that? Others are not stupid, but instead rely heavily on an “intelligence” that has emotional components — Dafydd lists among them things like human intuition, experience, a moral code, comity, emotion, unity, ideology, and hierarchy.

It seems to me that there is room for an intelligence that is not coldly logical, but is human and intuitive — and that Marco Rubio is a good representative of that intelligence. Thus, the “Bonesian/Spockian axis” is a great explanation for the Rubio/Cruz divide. I’ll concede for the sake of argument that Cruz is a Spock-style figure. While Cruz’s personality appeals to me, and while I think the criticisms of his personality are wildly overblown, I can’t deny that many people are put off by his personality. Meanwhile, Rubio was and remains remarkable for his ability to “connect” with people on a human level. When people talked about his political talent, this is what they were talking about. Rubio clearly has that ability to form emotional bonds with people. It’s a real skill, and it’s not to be discounted.

We could debate whether Trump has a similar ability. To me, the concept seems laughable. Trump is a narcissist, and can’t truly “connect” with anyone because he is always thinking about himself. But place that debate to one side. Let’s just focus on Dafydd’s argument.

Dafydd dismisses Rubio by saying that he “came across as two-faced because of his earlier flirtation with unrestricted immigration.” I’m not sure what to say to someone who claims: “Rubio articulated inconsistent positions on an issue, so voters gravitated towards Trump instead” — seeing as how articulating inconsistent positions on literally dozens of issues is what Trump does, all day, every day.

So clearly there is something going on here besides Rubio seeming two-faced. And I don’t see why we can’t call it what it is: a toxic combination of ignorance and stupidity. As as an example, take that dentally challenged moron from Indiana. As long as I live, I will never forget the Trumpkin who squared off against Cruz in that pivotal state:

There is no universe in which you can call this man intelligent, in any sense. It’s not that he has a deep intelligence that rejects cold logic for warm human interaction. He’s just a dummy. We agreed five paragraphs ago that some people are just plain dumb, and this guy fits the bill.

I am going to be honest with you. I don’t know how to persuade someone like that. I don’t really even want to know how to try. There’s a reason I don’t want to get into politics. I don’t want to try to persuade the unpersuadable. In my own profession, I must be a persuader . . . but a critical part of my job is identifying the people who cannot possibly be persuaded, and getting rid of them. You can’t do that in politics.

I can only guess at what persuades a man like this. Because he has been persuaded by Donald Trump. Now. Donald Trump lies about once a minute. He is a blowhard, a narcissist, and a totally unprincipled and self-absorbed cretin. Yet he seems to have snaggletooth completely under his spell.

Well, great. Maybe the way to persuade someone like Mr. Sunglasses in the video above is to repeat, over and over and over, a very very simple concept in third-grade language. For example, rather than writing reasoned blog posts with links and evidence, I could say “Git the gubmint out of our hair!” every day for a year. Simple! Repetition! Etc.!

Well, if that’s what it takes to persuade a slackjawed troglodyte like our friend in the video, I am going to leave that exercise to others. I have no interest in it.

People try to dissuade others from serious discussion of constitutional principles and limited government in two ways.

One is the tack taken by Dafydd here. The argument is that there is no point to rational argumentation. Or, to be more nuanced about it, that there is little point to it — because, while you can take the logic to Spock, the Spockians are a distinct minority, so you’ll make almost no difference at all in people’s voting.

The second argument is related. The rise of Trump, we are told, shows that conservatism no longer matters. It turns out that the Republican party never really cared about so-called “conservative” principles.

I’ll address the second point first. It’s wrong. Trump has managed to use psychological techniques of mass persuasion to a credulous audience of boobs, and that has drowned out the conservative message — but that does not mean the conservative message is dead. Note: to the extent that the moron in the video articulates any positions, they are conservative. He is concerned about illegal immigration and wants someone to build a wall. He wants our Second Amendment protected. He disagrees with John Boehner.

It’s not that he’s rejecting conservative principles. It’s that he is intellectually soft. He is willing to put his trust in a con man because he is dumb, and thus becomes a perfect mark to be targeted by the scammer Trump.

The point here is that, when Trump inevitably fails, as we all know he will, conservative principles could easily make a huge return. The Smart Set will be shocked. OH MY GOD WE THOUGHT TRUMP PROVED CONSERVATISM IS DEAD BUT NOW OUR MINDS ARE BEING BLOWN!!!1! But you won’t be shocked, because you read this post, and because you understand the dynamic at work.

Now I will address the first point — which was, you will recall: why bother arguing Spockian logic when the world is filled with Boneses? A similar argument that I hear a lot these days is that we need to find simpler ways to communicate with a society that has an increasingly short attention span and no affinity for reading books.

There is something to that. But don’t discount the power of ideas. In that vein, I will remind you of (and then elaborate on) a point I made when introducing the Constituional Vanguard.

Astute readers with a knowledge of history might recognize the title of this post as the title of a tract by Lenin published in 1902. His idea was to create a “vanguard” of Marxists to spread Marxist ideas. It is little known that the Bolsheviks were a relatively small movement of activists when they took over. What they lacked in numbers, they made up for in zeal and organization.

Constitutionalists hate Lenin, but there is no reason we can’t emulate his idea of a vanguard of people committed to a cause. His cause was an economic system designed to oppress and ultimately kill millions. Our cause is protecting our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

You don’t have to convince the idiot rabble using logic. You just have to convince a minority that has the zeal to effect change. The idiot rabble will fall in line.

Take a look at the quote that opens this post. You may barely know who John Maynard Keynes is. But his idiocy has a direct effect on you every day of your life. The absurd Obama stimulus was a function of Keynesianism. So is most of what every government does on the planet. What caused this revolution? A book called “The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money” which almost nobody understands. I have listened to very smart economists like Don Boudreaux say that they have made their way through its pages and find it almost completely impenetrable.

The same goes for “Das Kapital” by Marx. Good luck understanding that, or finding anyone among the rabble who does. Oh, so I guess Marxism was never influential, then!

Here’s the obvious point: can anyone deny that these impenetrable books have had a yuuuuge effect on history — an effect, by the way, that outpaces, oh, I don’t know, “The Art of the Deal” by several orders of magnitude?

“Das Kapital” has contributed to the deaths of millions. Keynes’s “General Theory” has itself contributed to untold suffering throughout the world. Yet the people who died at the hands of Marxists, or who starved due to Keynesianism, have no idea what these books say.

And yet they have had a tremendous effect.

I bave a lot of plans for the Constitutional Vanguard. I will readily agree with anyone that one blogger, and his small army of (at last check) about 475 constitutionalists . . . we can’t change the whole world on our own.

But if we remain true to our principles, and go out there and evangelize for them, there is literally no limit to what we might accomplish.

Even if we can’t convince every toothless yokel in Indiana.

Comments (160)

160 Responses to “On Political Persuasion”

I am inviting Dafydd to come defend his points here. If I know him, and I do, he will.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 5/11/2016 @ 9:38 pm
As Winston Churchill famously said, “Democracy is the worst form of government—except for all the others.”
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 5/11/2016 @ 9:47 pm
The free market beats democracy hands down almost every time.

I have less and less respect for democracy every day. In a country with a big government, it is an utter disaster.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 5/11/2016 @ 9:51 pm
Our govt. has tied the hands and feet of hard working Americans with unneeded rules and regulations. Now is the time to send these hacks packing. Let the free market dictate the future, not unreasonable fools like traitor Ryan and bill’s wife.
mg (31009b) — 5/11/2016 @ 10:02 pm
I think our local Trumpers help “dispel with” (as Rubio would say) the notion that Trumpers don’t care about conservatism. I think the Trumpers here at least THINK they care about conservatism.

Am I wrong, Trumpers?
Patterico (86c8ed) — 5/11/2016 @ 10:05 pm
Look at mg’s comment, for example. Even as he supports a guy who is against the free market, mg thinks he is for the free market.

We have to push conservatism, so we can be around to pick up the pieces after Trump smashes everything.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 5/11/2016 @ 10:07 pm
There is a famous story about the physicist and early molecular biologist, Leo Szilard.

Fleeing fascist Hungary, Szilard was interviewed by a (then) patriot press. They asked him what he thought of democracy.

Szilard allowed that he understood that the vote of a wise man should be equivalent to the vote of a fool.

What troubled him was that two fools could outvote a wise man.

I think that Mr. Hugh missed a very important point in his analysis: the death of citizenship and civics, even to the “Schoolhouse Rocks” level.

Trust me that the majority of voters have little idea of how government works. Even most members of government. Honestly, I believe that most voters cannot name their own Senators or Congresscritters. Let alone Secretary of State. I’m afraid to ask, right now, them to identify the Vice President. Or the three branches of government.

Yet they vote.

Add this ignorance to the weird “voting from the heart and not the head” attitude prevalent today, and we have a perfect storm.

Politics by bumper sticker.
Simon Jester (b6b651) — 5/11/2016 @ 10:09 pm
Start: On Political Persuasion

Finish: Even if we can’t convince every toothless yokel in Indiana

***********

I sense a conflict. Back to read the in between.
Danube River Guide (76b104) — 5/11/2016 @ 10:10 pm
Patterico, regarding your comment at #6: notice more slogans than thought?

People voted for Obama because of how it made them feel about themselves.

This is part of the same problem, I think.

Teh Narrative is not just a problem for the Left.
Simon Jester (b6b651) — 5/11/2016 @ 10:11 pm
Ted Cruz would be cruisin’ to the nomination.

*****

Ted Cruz failed to differentiate himself from Trump particularly in the area of foreign policy, The claim that Putin is someone that should be allowed to block our access to intelligence gathering over the area of Syria is just the first of many problems. Cruz and Trump are both extremely weak in the area of foreign policy.
Danube River Guide (76b104) — 5/11/2016 @ 10:18 pm
While Cruz’s personality appeals to me, and while I think the criticisms of his personality are wildly overblown, I can’t deny that many people are put off by his personality

His personality was and is fine, at least to me. It’s when he opened his mouth and a rather non-dulcet voice came out that a crucial disadvantage of his becomes apparent. Plus, if his face were more like that of a Paul Ryan, he’d probably have gained greater traction among a greater cross-section of the public. IOW, there are various somewhat intangible qualities that make a politician either more appealing or less appealing.

Try to picture the 1960s-era John F Kennedy (who in actuality — in private — was quite a scrounge) having a squeaky voice and homely face, and, even more so, his wife being a clone of Bess Truman and his two children being non-photogenic brats.

However, horrible Hillary does get more leeway than she deserves not because she has a great face and fine voice, but because too many people fall for the idiotic notion that her heart is bountiful, that her intentions are beautiful [snerk].
Mark (a3bba5) — 5/11/2016 @ 10:19 pm
i agree with both the original comment and your follow up. the perfect candidate can speak to both sides of logic (Reagan). Cruz was/is perfect in so many ways, but lacked that certain touch to get the “simple man” on his side….where trump excelled was his brash simpleton logic….and “tell it like it is” (but not really) spoke to their “bones” logic. and like you have said, they far outnumber us Spocks. however in the early parts of Cruz’ campaign he was doing well speaking to both sides of the argument, and then he lost something. so i dont think its completely past him to step back into that Reaganesk pathway. i think he realized it himself but it was too late…trump had already stolen that pony show and any attempt by him (Cruz) to get back to it would look like he was false. And also, like you stated, the “simple man” is not ‘dumb’, at least not the majority of them, and trump will soon figure this out if the rate of his flip flopping on certain major issues continues, he will lose a lot more voters by november and his already uphill battle will get even steeper.
CaptainGil (626bda) — 5/11/2016 @ 10:32 pm
Cruz lost because his name is Cruz. Rafael Edward Cruz.
nk (dbc370) — 5/11/2016 @ 10:53 pm
Is that Bonesian enough?
nk (dbc370) — 5/11/2016 @ 10:54 pm
The free market beats democracy hands down almost every time.

There are two different questions in politics: which choices should be left to the market, i.e. to each individual, and who should make those choices that are not left to the market. Liberalism addresses the first question, and says that wherever multiple choices are possible, they should be left to the market. But there are choices that by their nature don’t admit multiple answers; one choice must be made for everyone, and unless there is complete unanimity someone is going to be unhappy with that choice. The question of who makes those decisions translates into who should be disappointed, and have a decision they don’t like forced on them.

Democracy is an answer to that question. What democracy says is that the number of disappointed people should be as low as possible. The essence of democracy is that while it is bad for a majority to impose their views on the minority, it’s even worse for a minority to impose their views on the majority. It’s simple arithemtic; oppressing 49% of the population is better than oppressing 51%.

For instance, there is no possible market in which side of the road we drive on. We can’t have everyone driving on whichever side of the road they like. We have to pick a side, and everyone has to stick to it whether they like it or not. So if 99 million drivers want to drive on the right, and 100 million want to drive on the left, then we have to coerce either 99M people or 100M, and it’s obviously less bad to coerce 99M.
Milhouse (87c499) — 5/11/2016 @ 11:28 pm
I will support anyone who is against the established republican and democrat parties. Where the hell were you when the booshes were raping the constitution? lmao at you johnny come lately’s. I’m not so much for Trump, I’m for the burning of both establishment parties, and if Trump is the torch, so be it.
mg (31009b) — 5/11/2016 @ 11:33 pm
I want no part of rigged conservatism by lawyers and their elite flock.
mg (31009b) — 5/11/2016 @ 11:41 pm
Cruz lost because he appealed to people with IQs over 120. There aren’t enough of those. He appealed to reason, logic and the left-brain. Trump appealed to emotions, such as hatred, anger and fear, and promised losers like Sunglasses that every man would be King. He told them it was someone else’s fault, and he, Trump, would make them all pay.

Cruz should never have engaged with this guy, it made the drunk seem reasonable. He should have said, “You’re a drunk and that’s why no one will hire you. Stop trying to blame everyone else.”
Kevin M (25bbee) — 5/11/2016 @ 11:50 pm
Danube #10 – Not his fault. I was there. I heard and felt that very differentiation. Cruz insisted that Israel was to be a close ally. This was a direct rebuke of the false equivalence with the “Palestinians” which Trump espouses. Cruz mentioned this on countless many occasions. For anyone who was paying attention, this aroused great passion. Again, I was there. It was visceral.

There is no dealing with willful ignorance, which is one of Pat’s main tenets here. You have helped prove his point by attempting to deflect blame to the messenger and not the receivers. Thank you.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 5/11/2016 @ 11:52 pm
That guy that Cruz tried to argue with was not stupid; he was quite clever. It would have been foolish for him to try to match wits and debate skills with a man who has argued before the Supreme Court. He did the best thing he could to avoid being useful to the Cruz campaign, and that was to simply derail anything Cruz said.

I don’t like it. I’m very oriented to logic and rationality myself, but that’s the way the real world works. Snark wins more arguments than logic does. Moral preening wins more arguments than logic does. Intimidation wins more arguments than logic does. Authoritative pronouncements win more arguments than logic does. You don’t have to like it, but if you want to win arguments, you need to learn how arguments work in the real world.
Cugel (75dd55) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:39 am
Mr. Patterico, I got a chuckle out of your “your stupid!!” comment… because I recall that your first ever response to me was “You’re an idiot, Boris”.
Boris (489927) — 5/12/2016 @ 1:52 am
Trump not being an attorney is the most positive trait he has.
mg (31009b) — 5/12/2016 @ 2:23 am
I honestly believe Trump is doing well with the masses because he comes with the promise of revenge. Obama is the king of vengeful politics, but oh Trump, Trump is going to get in the White House and stick it right to everyone who’s done “us” wrong over the last eight years. I don’t believe that for a second, nor find that type of leadership appealing in the least, but I get it. Lord help Trump when the masses figure out they’ve been duped.
Em (41b97b) — 5/12/2016 @ 3:34 am
The masses were duped long before Trump.
Lawyers from both parties made sure of that.
mg (31009b) — 5/12/2016 @ 3:51 am
“Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats”

– H.L. Mencken

I’ll hope, even pray about our future and talk with friends, family and colleagues about the virtues of Ted Cruz and why we’d be fools not to elect him as our next president, but if and when push comes to shove, I’ll do everything within my power to help defeat Hillary Clinton, even if it means voting for Donald Trump.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 5/12/2016 @ 3:56 am
mg (16): If Trump “is against the established republican and democrat parties”, then why isn’t he running as an independent like Perot in 1992?
DavidD (da856e) — 5/12/2016 @ 4:01 am
Wanna know another book that has been wildly influential but is impenetrable?

On the Origin of Species

How many rabid evolutionists have ever read it?
DavidD (da856e) — 5/12/2016 @ 4:05 am
This whole thing puts me in mind of Plato’s Crito. For those who may have forgotten their undergrad Intro to Philosophy material, in this dialogue Socrates is imprisoned awaiting his execution by the democratic Athenian state for impiety when his pal Crito turns up urging Socrates to make a break for freedom. For Crito the case is clear; Socrates has been unjustly convicted by the Athenian democracy and, as such, is perfectly justified in avoiding the punishment they are trying to inflict upon him.

Of interest to us here, throughout Crito worries about “the many” and what they do, and it seems on the surface that he is right to do so… after all it is the “many” that is putting his great and good friend to death. Socrates’ response, however, is that you cannot worry too much about what the many do because, fundamentally, what they do is both irrational and random. The many are perfectly capable of praising something one day and destroying it the next. What is important to Socrates is the moral and intellectual work of philosophy. Crito agrees with Socrates in the abstract but is constantly seduced by the power wielded by the many. Crito slips easily into the contention that the fight against unjust power allows for the jettisoning of the moral and intellectual positions they nominally are pursuing.

To me it is pretty easy to update this dialogue casting Dafydd as Crito and Patterico as Socrates.

There is more depth to the analogy than I am willing to pursue this early in the morning, and for a blog comment to boot.
Rich Horton (0ca444) — 5/12/2016 @ 4:33 am
You don’t need to be a snaggle-toothed imbecile to be a bonesian. I know some well-educated, highly civilized people who still think Obama is doing a good job. “Good” is defined as whatever he’s doing, not by results. They blamed Bush for things which happened before his election and, when the timing was pointed out, refused to think about it further.
Trump’s supporters may be out for revenge–and perhaps they deserve a shot at it–but those of other political persuasions are frequently acting on virtue-signaling and moral preening, trying to convince at least themselves that they’re Very Good People.
If you are convinced DC has to be turned upside down because nothing else is going to fix the IRS, EPA, VA, illegal immigration, ICE releasing criminals, then it may not be entirely bonesian. What else will? Cruz was going to do it right this time. I believe him. Problem is…everybody says that and, second, even if they try (presuming they do try and aren’t faking it) nothing happens.
I get the diff between logic and emotion. Point is, we use emotion to decide what we want and should use logic and facts to decide how to get what we want. Perhaps the logic of the Trump supporters is based on the entirely reasonable presumption that, so far, nothing else has worked.
I should say that the Blob has figured out ways to make the left seem far more attractive to those wanting to feel good about themselves, signal their virtue, etc. so the bonesians are more likely to go left.
But now there is Trump who appeals to a different set of thought processes, no less logical than the preening limousine liberals’.
I think Trump would lose to Cruz if it could be explained to Trump’s supporters that Cruz would fix what ails them. That would mean differentiating Cruz’ message from all that went before. Luck with that.
Richard Aubrey (472a6f) — 5/12/2016 @ 5:19 am
horse. water. drink. fail.
WTP (5ea774) — 5/12/2016 @ 5:49 am
Ideas are like a young 18 year old determined to make it big in Porn …. by the time the idea gets around the “studios” it becomes washed out, cynical and no longer quite the product it was day 1.
Rodney King's Spirit (e2dd8e) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:03 am
The basic divide, imo, is this:
Patterico supports certain solutions to our problems, and supports Cruz because Cruz will seek to implement those solutions. Cruz is simply the means.
Trump supporters in general are not looking for a set of solutions: they are looking for someone to impose solutions, and do not really care what the solutions are. Trump appeals to them because he is an alpha male, and the rest are betas.
kishnevi (31ba4e) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:09 am
i think a lot of people want Mr. Trump to win cause pee-stank is a totalitarian criminal who’s running on a promise to keep food stamp’s vicious job-raping policies and regulations in place
happyfeet (831175) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:14 am
Amen, Patterico! You once again took the words right out of my brain, as I read Dafydd’s piece.
Jason Jones (9ed40a) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:19 am
Whatever. As long as Trump loses.
nk (dbc370) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:20 am
Yet max boot and company riding with red queen means nothing, from watergate to benghazi her record is clear.
narciso (1b4366) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:24 am
Promote and campaign for what you believe in but, as Spengler wrote this week:

“But there’s a war on–three different wars, in fact. To remain neutral is moral cowardice; to choose the wrong side would be downright wicked.”

and he chose Trump.
cedarhill (301e22) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:28 am
I’m with mg. Sweet meteor of Hillary to take out the worthless, lawyer-ridden GOP, and give America a new start with principles for the 21st century and not for 1860.
nk (dbc370) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:32 am
Trump won’t lose, nk. Have you seen the latest polls? He’s already dead even. The last hope of the Trump haters (“he’ll get blown out by Hillary!”) is crumbling, and it’s looking like a Trump landslide in the making.
Boris (489927) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:35 am
BTW, I believe our first order of business is to coordinate nationwide “Liberty 101” classes, open to the public. Something that will explain, in the simplest terms that even those who have no understanding of government (like an increasing majority of people don’t these days as some have already noted here). These classes should start out with something like this:

1) Do you want more control over your life?
2) Do you more choices and the freedom to make them yourself and not someone else making them for you?
3) Do you want to have more money in your pocket on payday?
4) Do you want your family and friends to be safer from crime or terrorist attack?
5) Do you want to be able to speak your mind or practice your faith (or lack of it) free from censorship or oppression?

Each one of these questions are probably going to elicit a “Yes” from even the most ignorant person or a committed democrat. Yet each one of these questions ties into a core principle of constitutional conservatism. Perhaps this is the core of what Dafydd was really saying (or maybe not), that we need to start explaining to the “unwashed” public in terms they can understand and identify with how the principles of conservatism and the Constitution will provide what they want. It isn’t going to convince everyone – some will no doubt bolt the minute they see where you are really going with it – but I think, done right, a lot of people will go “Hmm, maybe these ideas are worth a look”, and we may have minted a fresh conservative vote, and perhaps simultaneously, subtracted a Democrat vote.
Jason Jones (9ed40a) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:37 am
that reminders me Mr. Boris pee-stank could use a blow dryer if any of you guys need christmas ideas
happyfeet (831175) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:38 am
Um. I think there was one poll, Boris. But I tend to trust Real Clear Politics aggregate polls.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html
Simon Jester (6d9f2e) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:40 am
Mr. Feet, do you mean the same “pee-stank” (so VERY classy of you) that Trump has called “terrific” several times?

That’s your guy.

It’s like you don’t even listen to Trump.

Or at all.
Simon Jester (6d9f2e) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:41 am
I mean, honestly, Mr, Feet. What if everyone called you “shartshorts” all the time?

Would that be helpful? Cool? Grown up?
Simon Jester (6d9f2e) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:42 am
Me, I think you should just call HRC “terrific” like Trump does. Since he has such great ideas.
Simon Jester (6d9f2e) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:43 am
you’re overthinking it pickle

it’s like when people ask me hey why do you put beef gelatin in your coffee

and i’m like honestly i have no idea i didn’t read that far in the article it just seemed like a fun idea
happyfeet (831175) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:46 am
Simon, maybe he is thinking of this
https://www.qu.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/2016-presidential-swing-state-polls/release-detail?ReleaseID=2345

Although I would not call it “landslide”.
kishnevi (9cb6b5) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:46 am
This is the critical point: There are many, many more Bonesians than Spockians, by one or two orders of magnitude. If you dismiss the Bonesian voters as fools, if you try to “logic” them into line, you are guaranteed to lose the election. You need outreach to the great majority who make their decisions, not on debate-logic, but on other ways of knowing.

There are not enough “conservative” nor even “conservative”-leaning people in this country to pull off an election victory of the kind “conservatives” are looking for. Thus they will constantly be disappointed. I remember Reagan being dismissed as too liberal by some “conservatives” at times.
The obsession with politics (a game for losers, whiners, and crybabies for the most part) is nothing more than an attempt to use the power of government to force people to think differently. If you truly want to live in a society of conservative or classical liberal principles, you need to go out and work with people individually. This is where Cruz was successful, but he’s just one man. If the “conservatives” out there who make such a big stink about how much they love this country would make a real effort to help people learn to fish and how our Constitution enables/protects them…note “help” them learn, not tell them how to fish…we would be much closer to getting out of this mess.
WTP (5ea774) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:47 am
It’s not one poll, Simon. In the last couple of weeks there’ve been 2 Rasmussen polls, 3 Quinnipiac polls and today’s Reuters/Ipsos poll showing Trump tied at worst. The other RCP polls are out of date by now. Every “Trump can’t this-or-that” conventional wisdom has fallen by the wayside and this will be no different.
Boris (489927) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:52 am
Whatever. There’s always the 25th Amendment.
nk (dbc370) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:55 am
A Bonesian, a Spockian, and a Kirkian
Were jumping on a bed

The Bonesian pushed the Spockian, who knocked his head

The kirkian took him to the doctor, and the doctor said

That’s what you get for jumping on the bed.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:55 am
i thought bonesian *was* the doctor

this is becoming very high-concept and hard to follow
happyfeet (831175) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:57 am
I honestly believe Trump is doing well with the masses because he comes with the promise of revenge. Obama is the king of vengeful politics, but oh Trump, Trump is going to get in the White House and stick it right to everyone who’s done “us” wrong over the last eight years. I don’t believe that for a second, nor find that type of leadership appealing in the least, but I get it. Lord help Trump when the masses figure out they’ve been duped.

Em (41b97b) — 5/12/2016 @ 3:34 am

I believe that is a large part of it. Like Patterico said, it seems like a large number of voters do care about conservative principles, but they ignore Trump’s inconsistency on them in favor of blowing things up. They feel he’s conservative “enough” but more importantly he is causing all the right people to freak out. At that point, their emotions override their logic. To change that, you have to get through that emotion, or use emotion to get to the logic of the situation.

At this point its too late I feel, because Trump is the nominee and people want to be on the winning side, or the side that even if loses at least he was fighting. People HATE being wrong, and it will take time for them to accept that they were wrong. Insulting them won’t help. Even if they are idiots, we still need them. I don’t think many Trump supporters are idiots, I just think they have been caught up in the cult of personality and have been fooled. It happens even to smart people too.
Patrick Henry, the 2nd (e04f50) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:01 am
Bones was more instinct as was kirk, Spock more ligic, except on the pon farr.

Btw Austin Petersen doesn’t believe in a wall.
narciso (1b4366) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:01 am
Bonesian, heal thyself!
felipe (b5e0f4) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:03 am
Your not with me, nk. I want this mess to bottom out. When whitey riots it will be a step in the right direction. L&L chumps.
mg (31009b) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:05 am
I would love the requirement of a passing grade on a civics test, in English, before granting registration to vote in Federal Elections.

Would simultaneously solve three problems:

Weed out low info voters.
Weed out illegal immigrants (believe me, the immigrants who negotiate naturalization, are better versed in civics than most credentialed public school teachers).
Ensure voter ID.

I know, its rayciss, classist, and probably sexist.
Steve Malynn (1d7837) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:09 am
A whitey riot!
felipe (b5e0f4) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:09 am
#58 Best Frankenstein ever!
Steve Malynn (1d7837) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:12 am
I hate it when I realize that there are weirder people in the world than I can imagine and parody.
nk (dbc370) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:12 am
i think a lot of people want Mr. Trump to win cause pee-stank is a totalitarian criminal who’s running on a promise to keep food stamp’s vicious job-raping policies and regulations in place

happyfeet (831175) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:14 am

yes yes. pee-stank is bad, but poo-stank likes her

likes her a lot

gave huge money to her

its a competition among great friends. its win win for them both.

sure pee-stank is a totalitarian criminal, but so is poo-stank

he promises to make great job-raping policies too like tariffs and import restrictions

it’ll be great though because poo is better than pee

goldy sacks soros poo is much better than goldy sacks soros pee.

yes yes

it’ll be great
sadfeet (ddead1) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:15 am
sadfeet (ddead1) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:15 am

Wierd, your ID (ddead1) is, like, The Dead One.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:22 am
The dark magic of HEXadecimal.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:23 am
When white people “riot”, they do it with police and prisons. If you’re rioting in the streets, you’re not white, you’re just light-skinned and “passing”.
nk (dbc370) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:26 am
#29: Richard,

the Blob has figured out ways to make the left seem far more attractive to those wanting to feel good about themselves, signal their virtue, etc. so the bonesians are more likely to go left.

The ground work for this phenomena was laid one hundred years ago by professional “educators”. The problem is that most of us had no idea what was planned, nor did we figure out the ramifications of the program put forth by these characters. Just two points to tweak your interest:

Logic: John Dewey and William Kilpatrick, as summarized in a 2003 review by David Klein in “A Brief History of K-12 Mathematics Education in the 20th Century.”

Kilpatrick proposed that the study of algebra and geometry be discontinued in high school “except as an intellectual luxury.” According to Kilpatrick, mathematics is “harmful rather than helpful to the kind of thinking necessary for ordinary living.” In an address before the student body of the University of Florida, Kilpatrick lectured “We have in the past taught algebra and geometry to too many, not too few.”

…[to make clear that Kilpatrick was a central figure in developing modern education] according to Dewey [he of the decimal system] “In the best sense of the words, progressive education and William Kilpatrick are synonymous.”

Purpose of Education: Frank Goodnow, President Johns Hopkins University and first president of the American Political Science Association, The American Conception of Liberty (1916).

So I repeat we teachers are in a measure responsible for the thoughts of the coming generation. This being the case, if under the conditions of modern life it is the social group rather than the individual which is increasing in importance, if it is true that greater emphasis should be laid on social duties and less on individual rights, it is the duty of the University to call the attention of the student to this fact and it is the duty of the student when he goes out into the world to do what in him lies to bring this truth home to his fellows.

So you put these two together and you get students who are not taught simple logic (algebra, geometry) which is the basis of things like von Misean economics, and further, they are taught that their duty is to be focused on social needs and not individual rights. Failing to teach individual rights coincidentally means that the concept of individual responsibilities need never be mentioned. So we end up with “equity days” in our high schools with no mention of “equality before the law.” We have spent three generations encouraging savages to believe they are the masters of the universe. On the progressive left we have Obama and his acolytes, and on the progressive right we have Trump and snaggle tooth. These are the modern day embodiments of the “communist” and “fascist” movements in the 1930s. They differ only in the names and titles (“comrade” or perhaps “GS15” versus “chief executive officer”) of the directors of industry. The notion of a constitutional republican government is orthogonal to both ideologies.

The great innovation in modern times is that with the availability of hand calculators, arithmetic is also on the “intellectual luxury” list of our educational elite.

Dewey, Goodnow, and Kilpatrick would be very pleased with snaggle tooth. A dream come true.
BobStewartatHome (404986) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:32 am
“you’re not whit, you’re just light-skinned and ‘passing’.”

Yes, they’re “whitey”
felipe (b5e0f4) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:34 am
The very rational appeal of Marxist/Keynesian policy to those below median intelligence is the promise of redistribution of Other People’s Money to their economic benefit. Trump certainly understands the danger inherent in threatening subsidy payments as well as he understands the political profit to be derived from promising ‘growth’ based upon the perpetual motion machine of the moment.

I would never argue the limited intelligence of an Obama or Trump supporter but the choice to chase the promise of OPM is rational as long as OPM remains available and OPM always appears to be available in a democracy.
Rick Ballard (1e7f0c) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:40 am
Heh, felipe. Is that like “irony” vs. “ironish”?

But I don’t want to let mg off the hook. I am in a worse mood than he is.

If you look forward to rioting, you’re not white. You’re just light-skinned and “passing”.
nk (dbc370) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:46 am
Btw Austin Petersen doesn’t believe in a wall.

Neither does Donald Trump. You’ll see.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:47 am
So you put these two together and you get students who are not taught simple logic (algebra, geometry) which is the basis of things like von Misean economics, and further, they are taught that their duty is to be focused on social needs and not individual rights. Failing to teach individual rights coincidentally means that the concept of individual responsibilities need never be mentioned. So we end up with “equity days” in our high schools with no mention of “equality before the law.”

So the question remains…What are you gonna do about it?
WTP (5ea774) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:48 am
Heh, felipe. Is that like “irony” vs. “ironish”?

Yes, exactly.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:56 am
I don’t know how to persuade someone like that. I don’t really even want to know how to try. There’s a reason I don’t want to get into politics. I don’t want to try to persuade the unpersuadable.

Pat, I don’t recall all the angst — all the gnashing of teeth — from you or a subset of Republicans/non-liberals/conservatives back in November 2008 or even 2012. Or the kick-off of a period of deranged liberalism this nation has been dealing with for 8 years, or much longer if one considers the socio-economic trends that go back decades.

OTOH, I do recall your trying to rationalize away a bit of the crass leftism of the current president, at least in 2009. I also recall your being very soft about the idea of man-made global warming, which is a form of environmentalism run amok. I also recall your saying a few years ago that one reason you don’t mind the idea of same-sex marriage is because human sexuality — based on your own biology — is so ingrained that it presumably should be treated that way. SSM is a form of socio-cultural rejiggering run amok.

Things like that are why I sometimes do wonder if certain Republicans/non-liberals/conservatives are as disturbed by what’s going on as they should be or as I am.

.dailymail.co.uk via drudgereport.com: More ‘straight’ young women are having gay sexual experiences and fewer believe that their gender is something that is fixed, according to new research. A quarter of 18 to 24-year-old women admit to having a fling with someone of the same sex, and a third confess they have been attracted to someone outside of their defined sexuality.

Only a third of the age bracket – described as The Pioneers, ‘the new generation of sexual fluidity’ – think marriage is relevant to their lives, and 45 per cent would consider having a baby without a partner.
Mark (a3bba5) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:05 am
Mark, that particular point of yours is so tired, you should give it a rest.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:07 am
felipe, you’re one of the regulars here who I’ve noticed can be ideologically squishy on occasion. You deny that?
Mark (a3bba5) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:15 am
Mark, there is nobody in the whole wide world, living or dead, you do not consider ideologically squishy. Except yourself. You deny that?
nk (dbc370) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:17 am
Happy at 52,
I thought so too at first. The modern Bones dude probably Remington Steele’d his way away from 10 prime film years being on that show instead. Emily brings it better than Zooey most days.
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:25 am
In the midst of things, didn’t have opportunity to read it all yet,
my little bitty input at this point,
that somebody else may have said,
is with guys like in the video,
I sometimes don’t know if they are for real or spouting stuff for purposeful effect, whether paid or not.
But I guess even if they are “doing it for effect”, they must think it resonates with enough people to do it.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:27 am
Cruz was/is perfect in so many ways, but lacked that certain touch to get the “simple man” on his side…

************

No. Very good, very smart people in the military, and intelligience community are not on board with Cruz because he lacks good instincts, and judgment. Add to that the fact that he looked like a demagogue and opportunist when he joined Rand Paul in the well of the Senate–to get the American people to identify with al-Awaki.

Do you know the story of Socrates? It goes something like–The Oracle declared that Socrates was the smartest person in the land, and Socrates immediately questioned that idea. Cut to the end of the story–Socrates was the smartest person in the land–exactly because he knew he could not be–the expert on everything.

Again–the people here are mostly lawyers and/or interested in the law. Conservative blogs are overrun disproportionately by lawyers, law students, and libertarians. Then who do you talk to in your everyday experience? Your office mates, and other bloggers.

Quite a few of the people I know felt like–when the only viable NeverTrump option was Cruz–they were forced to go with Trump.

Cruz isn’t even a good strategist with his campaign–again he embraced Trump for too long, adopted or validated too many of Trump’s policies–but then added to that baggage a Rand Paul like foreign policy that he had actually embraced longer than Trump–and hard right religious and social stances which seemed less authentic than Santorum.

People in the military were sickened by his clean toga routine, that same clean toga routine by Cruz took the focus of the blame for Obamacare off Democrats and put it on Republicans. And once again we lost the strategic value of making a clean run on Democrats over Obamacare. We lost the ability to have a referendum election on Obamacare.

Quite frankly–Heidi Cruz has more political talent than he does, but you guys probably can’t see it because you are so overly focused on your specialty–the legalese. Ted has been holding her back.

( I might have that Socrates story wrong–but who cares? It’s the point that matters)
Danube River Guide (76b104) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:32 am
keynes was of course, referring to classical economists, which had already been superceded in the germanic bloc, his catechism is exempt,
narciso (732bc0) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:33 am
i think a lot of people want Mr. Trump to win cause pee-stank is a totalitarian criminal who’s running on a promise to keep food stamp’s vicious job-raping policies and regulations in place

happyfeet (831175) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:14 am

yes yes. pee-stank is bad, but poo-stank likes her

likes her a lot

gave huge money to her

its a competition among great friends. its win win for them both.

sure pee-stank is a totalitarian criminal, but so is poo-stank

he promises to make great job-raping policies too like tariffs and import restrictions

it’ll be great though because poo is better than pee

goldy sacks soros poo is much better than goldy sacks soros pee.

yes yes

it’ll be great

sadfeet (ddead1) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:15 am

********

Now that is brilliant.
Danube River Guide (76b104) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:34 am
no, danube, the dems are supposed to support robertscare, cruz was right to do so,
narciso (732bc0) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:35 am
Again–the people here are mostly lawyers and/or interested in the law. Conservative blogs are overrun disproportionately by lawyers, law students, and libertarians. Then who do you talk to in your everyday experience? Your office mates, and other bloggers.

It’s that bubble thing. Of course we are all in a bubble of some sort but to what degree do we see value in the ideas and opinions of those outside our bubbles is the nut of it. Not saying one should agree with it, but should at the very least value a look at things from a different angle/perspective.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

James 1:19-20: Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
WTP (5ea774) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:42 am
So the question remains…What are you gonna do about it?

We can start by agreeing that we’ve correctly identified the problem. If we can do that then it would be time to initiate a little push back. It’s time that we stopped mindlessly supporting school bonds and yet another pay raise for teachers, yawning when we learn that leftist politicians are routinely given access to our public schools to indoctrinate the kids on the “principles” of equity, hoping that the latest extension of school activities to include breakfast, lunch and dinner will improve education. We can insist that charter schools play an ever increasing role in education. We can donate time and money to private schools.

In your community there is probably a functional, small, poorly funded private school that could use your help. The possibilities are endless. Ben Carson has a scholarship program that is worthwhile. The students produced by the public schools are operating at a fraction of their capacity, some of them may never grow up. Every kid you help to obtain a real education will surpass their counterpart in the public domain.
BobStewartatHome (404986) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:46 am
Danube #10 – Not his fault.

*************

Ed is anything ever Cruz’s fault? This blog and other Cruz fan blogs have blamed Rubio, Kasich, The Establishment, and the NeverTrump movement for Cruz’s defeat.

Now Patterico has upped that game by blaming the voters. You guys are sounding perilously close to Democrats because someone is always the “victim” and they are never responsible for anything. In this case you have turned Cruz into the victim which is never an appealing label when Americans are looking for a leader.

Cruz has free will. He made his choices. He chose poorly .
Danube River Guide (76b104) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:47 am
H L Mencken:

The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre—the man who can most easily adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.

The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

or, shorter:

“No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.” (apocryphal paraphrase)
Kevin M (25bbee) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:54 am
WTP

Well I get the distinct impression that no other expertise is valued. That people here do not understand the strain the military has been under. That you all grew tired of even assisting the military by debating The Left. The Left wore you down–or something. You should reread this post and most of the comments here from the perspective of someone who does not agree that only those opposed to Cruz are illogical and/or stupid. It’s pretty insulting.

The original writer of the letter–talks about emotional intelligence–I do think he is hinting at something…
Danube River Guide (76b104) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:55 am
If we can do that then it would be time to initiate a little push back. It’s time that we stopped mindlessly supporting school bonds and yet another pay raise for teachers, yawning when we learn that leftist politicians are routinely given access to our public schools to indoctrinate the kids on the “principles” of equity, hoping that the latest extension of school activities to include breakfast, lunch and dinner will improve education

Yes, agree in general, but this again is using the power of government. If you don’t have like minded voters to begin with you’re not likely to get on that school board. I have worked with the public school system in a minor capacity and I have worked with a local church to try to address/help, as I say above, teach people how to fish. Personally, I think the latter is more important. Such will filter down to the children regardless of the school system. Not that I disagree with what you suggest. Either way, where is the genuine interest among conservatives in doing so? Preaching to the choir may feel good but it doesn’t get the job done.
WTP (5ea774) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:56 am
You should reread this post and most of the comments here from the perspective of someone who does not agree that only those opposed to Cruz are illogical and/or stupid. It’s pretty insulting.

The original writer of the letter–talks about emotional intelligence–I do think he is hinting at something…

I myself do not agree that only those opposed to Cruz are illogical and/or stupid. I do agree with the original writer in a great respect. See my original post above, admittedly snarky, of Horse/Water/Drink/Fail.
WTP (5ea774) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:01 am
Cruz has free will. He made his choices. He chose poorly .

Danube River Guide (76b104) — 5/12/2016 @ 8:47 am

I don’t agree with everything you said about Cruz, but he has made some poor choices. For one, not attacking Trump early- saying he was terrific and that the establishment wants both of them to fight.

He needed to attack Trump early and often, and failed to do so.
Patrick Henry, the 2nd (e04f50) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:02 am
Daffyd–is the letter writer–he almost gets it but not quite.

I’m going to repost a Tweet by Cruz here–maybe the writer Daffyd will notice something because his letter to Patterico is very good but still misses something–maybe he was just trying to cede a point to Patterico to get other ideas considered.

Ted Cruz on Twitter: “The Establishment’s only hope: Trump & me in a cage match. Sorry to disappoint –@realDonaldTrump is terrific. #DealWithIt” Twitter › tedcruz › status
Danube River Guide (76b104) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:04 am
, but he has made some poor choices. For one, not attacking Trump early- saying he was terrific and that the establishment wants both of them to fight.

He needed to attack Trump early and often, and failed to do so.

***********

Exactly so. Those were a few errors, but they were fatal.
Danube River Guide (76b104) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:07 am
DRG, Socrates saw only questions where others presumed answers. It wasn’t necessary to show that no one could be an expert on “everything”, he demonstrated that one could not be an “expert” on anything. And this made him enemies in high places. This is probably the lesson that progressives took to heart as they lobotomized U. S. education. Who wants a Socrates around embarrassing all the demagogues and calling question to the premises underlying the promised therapeutic society. But it may also have been the case that he was buddies with some of the 30 tyrants who’d just been overthrown, and so he faced the culling that Athens inflicted on itself with great frequency during its heyday. Democracies based on nothing but mob rule are the most vicious forms of government, as well as being remarkably ineffective and short lived. Snaggle tooth would have been quite comfortable in Athens as long as he was in the majority.
BobStewartatHome (404986) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:07 am
I agree with Simon Jester 7 that people are too ignorant about civics, government and history to be logical. The more ignorant the voters, the more charisma and emotion matter. Thus, it’s not a choice between Bones and Spock. Bones can never be Spock without Spock’s knowledge.

In the past, public schools taught students about civics, government, history and even morality. Students studied the great American documents and the history that made them. Until the schools do that again, conservatives can never win if the fight is really between Bonesian emotion and Spockian logic. Conservatism and its companion, the rule of law, require logic.

Laws are rules that make society function, and history teaches us to avoid past mistakes. Confuse, abuse or misuse the law and history, and society will fail. Alinsky-inspired Democrats have done this for decades and now Trump-inspired Republicans are doing it, too. The logic of conservatism cannot compete until voters realize — probably the hard way — that the other choices don’t work.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:12 am
Fu*k it
Trump 2016
Colonel Haiku (ea7bff) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:14 am
gotta love that trump
happyfeet (a037ad) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:15 am
We can teach these subjects but we choose not to because Democrats want ignorant voters. It’s karma for both parties, but especially for the GOP.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:18 am
The Establishment’s only hope: Trump & me in a cage match. Sorry to disappoint

Yeah…that’s pretty open to interpretation.
WTP (5ea774) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:22 am
nk- Last night I ate fresh asparagus in my fox hole.
mg (31009b) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:23 am
Texas schools teach conservative subjects and fight against putting liberal dogma in textbooks. I think that’s part of the reason a conservative like Cruz is popular here.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:28 am
if one has the right credential, doesn’t matter what idiocy comes out of their piehole, solon of scranton, plagiarist, fantasist, zaphod, nuf said, red squaw, fraud, red queen, embezzler and mountebank,
narciso (732bc0) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:29 am
Watch Trump’s numbers rise after obama apologizes for Hiroshima.
mg (31009b) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:31 am
gotta love that trump

happyfeet (a037ad) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:15 am

yes yes

gotta love them goldy sacks soros men

they make america great
sadfeet (e04f50) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:38 am
Offhand,

If one wishes to stand on principles which one thinks are true,
One must have a stomach to do combat without resorting to being combative.
One needn’t have “attacked” Trump as much as stood for the principles in a way that highlights the differences between candidates.

Maybe I am being flippant or simplistic or something,
there is a professional class that wants to use the right techniques to sell a candidate,
Listen to their advice with great care
At the end of the day, unleash the truth and let it fend for itself.

One can live with mistakes in tactics, one can’t live with mistakes of purpose and meaning

Cruz would have done well to be as bold in the public debate as he was in the Senate.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:50 am
yes yes you have to be careful about them goldy sackies – they’re not good people
happyfeet (a037ad) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:51 am
But, fwiw, a good president should not have a family young enough to be ravaged by the war,
But it is hard I guess to have the passion and energy when older,
Though Reagan did.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:53 am
the problem is the top men, elide the issues of immigration and trade, partially for philosophical reasons, but also they are invested in itm
narciso (732bc0) — 5/12/2016 @ 10:02 am
What could Cruz do, MD, since Trump refused to debate? The media let him get away with it. They won’t let him do that with Hillary unless she doesn’t want to debate either.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/12/2016 @ 10:32 am
I am not sure what Cruz could have done differently,
Except anticipate the unexpected,
That Trump was going to suck the O2 out of the room from the first moment and that he needed to do something with real impact.

I actually wasn’t trying to criticize him as much as just speak to the topic of “attacking Trump”.

I think it literally takes Divine wisdom and providence for a good candidate to overcome the “spirit of the age”, and it’s human and technological handmaidens.

Which is why I still hold out hope,
Because I knew it would take Divine intervention from the beginning.
But God may see fit to let us continue to reap the just fruit of our foolishness as a country.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 5/12/2016 @ 10:43 am
tactically, he shouldn’t have gone into the sectarian niche, more the way that sabo had portrayed him, when he did the ‘princess bride bit, the endorsement by the medici’s team was not helpful, having more of his surrogates, like gaffney and co, might have been,
narciso (732bc0) — 5/12/2016 @ 10:46 am
Cruz was right to handle Trump the way he did. The fact he was the last real competitor proves it.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/12/2016 @ 10:53 am
Patterico,

I’m sure someone has already said it, but you don’t reason with someone who’s acting like a moron and trying to insult you. Instead, you make a fool out of them. You embarrass them, mock them, make them seem to others so obviously stupid that no one would want to be associated with them.

Or nuke them from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.

Your choice.
njrob (9736c6) — 5/12/2016 @ 10:59 am
Sorry Patterico, I like you, but you really are barking up the wrong tree.

Dafydd ab Hugh brings up a truly excellent point, but I think there is more to it than that. I’ll make two points quickly:

1) Another form of intelligence is knowing you are stupid, and that your stupidity is unlikely to be remedied anytime soon. Think of it as a form of self knowledge. Being stupid isn’t as bad as it sounds – if we are at all honest about ourselves we must admit we are stupid about a great many things. I might understand rebuilding engines, but legal theories leave my head buzzing. I think a lot of Trump voters are simply aware that most of the issues are above their head, that the world is a complicated place, that there are legions of smart people making big bucks out there whose sole purpose is to screw them over. This leads to people voting for…attitude above all else. That is to say, they want someone who promises to fight on their behalf, details not relevant. And Trump, more than any other candidate, promised to fight. His support isn’t about promising to build a wall with Mexico per se, it is about aggressively barking at those who criticized him. It was the barking back that got people interested in him – some sense that he wouldn’t give in without a fight, no matter what the issue. he is obnoxious, and aggressive, and mean – a junkyard dog with a foul mouth. That means something to people who don’t understand the issues.

2) There is the part of Ghostbusters where they are asked the “name their destroyer”. That is, they will be destroyed, but they get to choose the form of that destroyer. They choose the stay-puff marshmallow man. I think there is a significant attitude in this country that we are going down the drain no matter what. Sending Trump to Washington is a method of making the elites “feel our pain”, it is the act of choosing our destroyer. Burn it down, scatter the ashes, and salt the earth. Why be destroyed quietly, by a fellow in nicely creased pants? Better to go out with Rome sacked by the Visigoths.
Eramus (2cd2ac) — 5/12/2016 @ 11:24 am
To put point one in another context, Bones isn’t Spock, and knows he never will be. Bones doesn’t have the mental abilities to be Spock. He literally can’t ever be Spock – it is simply impossible. Bones knows this. Sure he picks on Spock’s Vulcan logic, but you know he respects, and even likes him.

What is McCoy’s logic? It is not just emotion, it is humanity. What is best, morally speaking? Just because something is logical, doesn’t make it right.
Eramus (2cd2ac) — 5/12/2016 @ 11:30 am
The free market beats democracy hands down almost every time.

I’m not sure you can have one without the other these days.

The so-called “social democracies” are dependent on a, if not “the”, thriving free market. So were the various communist/statist regimes that emerged last century (and their equivalents that periodically crop up in this one likewise beg for scraps from free or mostly-free economies).

A free market hinges on open and fair participation of consumers – “consumers” being, in practice, citizens, subjects, or residents of liberal republics and parliamentary democracies (and those who rely on the input and activities of these persons, i.e. the unfortunate residents of the aforementioned regimes in the paragraph above).
JP (bd5dd9) — 5/12/2016 @ 11:35 am
Mind, the above doesn’t refute the proposition; I’m just not clear how a “supremacy” of one over the other is possible without their active collaboration.
JP (bd5dd9) — 5/12/2016 @ 11:47 am
… But his idiocy …

Keynes may have been wrong but he was not an idiot.
James B. Shearer (667387) — 5/12/2016 @ 11:56 am
Where is the morality in Trump, Erasmus? Like his twin Obama, “I win” seems to be the extent of his morality.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:05 pm
Problem: Tired, old, passive-agressive attack of the form “[insert name], you can be [state an unsupported condition], do you deny it?”

Solution: Ignore the attack.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:07 pm
His support isn’t about promising to build a wall with Mexico per se, it is about aggressively barking at those who criticized him. It was the barking back that got people interested in him – some sense that he wouldn’t give in without a fight, no matter what the issue. he is obnoxious, and aggressive, and mean – a junkyard dog with a foul mouth. That means something to people who don’t understand the issues.
That means something to people who do understand the issues as well. More energy is needed to make an impact on a system as entrenched as the one of the last 40-50 years.

I think there is a significant attitude in this country that we are going down the drain no matter what. Sending Trump to Washington is a method of making the elites “feel our pain”, it is the act of choosing our destroyer. Burn it down, scatter the ashes, and salt the earth.

The “Let it Burn” crowd has been around quite a while, long before Trump was taken seriously. And to this is also the attitude of some #NEVERTRUMPs take when saying they’ll vote for pee-stink.
WTP (5ea774) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:13 pm
It was the barking back that got people interested in him – some sense that he wouldn’t give in without a fight, no matter what the issue. he is obnoxious, and aggressive, and mean – a junkyard dog with a foul mouth. That means something to people who don’t understand the issues.

The people had a chance to back the dog with the scars who has been in battle after battle, or the dog with the louder bark who rolls over on his back if you pet him and give him some steak. They went for the latter because ooh! listen to that bark!

Intelligence? Nope.

But I will keep making the case for the battle-tested dog. And when the loud barker runs away, maybe people will listen to me when I extol the virtues of the scrappy fighter.

All I can do is try. That tree we’re barking up may turn out to be the right tree after all.
Patterico (5a5600) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:13 pm
Erasmus can explain himself,
But I don’t think he was talking about morals or particularly endorsing anything.

Yes, what I have always said good about Trump was that he was first to engage the anger of people.
Unfortunately, being the first didn’t mean he was the best.
MD in Philly (d8a244) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:14 pm
Alternate solution: Mock it*.

*See excellent axample at #75
felipe (b5e0f4) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:20 pm
spock thinks dogs are illogical

he’s a cat person
happyfeet (a037ad) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:21 pm
Cruz was right to handle Trump the way he did. The fact he was the last real competitor proves it.

I tend to agree. The Conventional Wisdom is that he built up Trump, etc. I think that is nonsense. People forget how Trump was savaged by the likes of Perry and Jindal (but we are being reminded as those guys now meekly fall in line). I think Cruz’s biggest mistake was openly calling Trump “terrific.” I didn’t believe he thought that at the time and I believe it less now. But in general, studiously avoiding clashes with Trump always seemed like sound strategy and I see no reason to second-guess it now. I think I just badly underestimated the ignorance and gullibility of the electorate — and I was already pretty cynical.

We need education. I intend to be part of it. Some of the people we talk to and educate will be able to translate the concepts into language that the inattentive common man can understand. But spreading ideas of freedom and limited government is Job One. That is the lesson of Keynes and Marx. What we are doing is not irrelevant. Not at all.
Patterico (5a5600) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:22 pm
I agree with the battle tested dog, P,

But the GOPe and media/Trump combo both pushed him to the back as hard as possible

But I am still not giving up hope.
MD in Philly (d8a244) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:25 pm
No, Happy, spock is a “bear” (he had one as a child, a sort of “Teddy-bear” with 3″ claws and fangs) person. And, as you know, bears are related to dogs. Spectacular fail.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:26 pm
But spreading ideas of freedom and limited government is Job One. That is the lesson of Keynes and Marx.

Spreading idea that freedom and limited government is in the best interest of the average voter is Job One. That is the lesson of Keynes and Marx.

FIFY
WTP (5ea774) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:33 pm
oh. See for reals I thought he was a cat person.

My bad.
happyfeet (a037ad) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:38 pm
DRG, Socrates saw only questions where others presumed answers. It wasn’t necessary to show that no one could be an expert on “everything”, he demonstrated that one could not be an “expert” on anything. And this made him enemies in high places. This is probably the lesson that progressives took to heart as they lobotomized U. S. education. Who wants a Socrates around embarrassing all the demagogues and calling question to the premises underlying the promised therapeutic society. But it may also have been the case that he was buddies with some of the 30 tyrants who’d just been overthrown, and so he faced the culling that Athens inflicted on itself with great frequency during its heyday. Democracies based on nothing but mob rule are the most vicious forms of government, as well as being remarkably ineffective and short lived. Snaggle tooth would have been quite comfortable in Athens as long as he was in the majority.

BobStewartatHome (404986) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:07 am

************

Thanks for that response. I didn’t know the rest of the story–as they say.
Danube River Guide (76b104) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:51 pm
Cruz was right to handle Trump the way he did. The fact he was the last real competitor proves it.

DRJ (15874d) — 5/12/2016 @ 10:53 am

**********

Ever watch Survivor?
Danube River Guide (76b104) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:54 pm
5.I think our local Trumpers help “dispel with” (as Rubio would say) the notion that Trumpers don’t care about conservatism. I think the Trumpers here at least THINK they care about conservatism.

Am I wrong, Trumpers?

Conservatism means different things to different people. Many people vote for conservatives because they are tired of liberals calling them racists.
James B. Shearer (667387) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:54 pm
I tend to agree. The Conventional Wisdom is that he built up Trump, etc. I think that is nonsense. People forget how Trump was savaged by the likes of Perry and Jindal (but we are being reminded as those guys now meekly fall in line). I think Cruz’s biggest mistake was openly calling Trump “terrific.” I didn’t believe he thought that at the time and I believe it less now. But in general, studiously avoiding clashes with Trump always seemed like sound strategy and I see no reason to second-guess it now. I think I just badly underestimated the ignorance and gullibility of the electorate — and I was already pretty cynical.

We need education. I intend to be part of it. Some of the people we talk to and educate will be able to translate the concepts into language that the inattentive common man can understand. But spreading ideas of freedom and limited government is Job One. That is the lesson of Keynes and Marx. What we are doing is not irrelevant. Not at all.
Patterico (5a5600) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:22 pm

This is what I was hoping would happen this year. We had governors who defied predictions of economic disaster after they governed as conservatives, and had numbers to back it up. We had articulate defenders of the Constitution and critics of progressive malarkey. I was hoping that one of them could kick off his campaign with the theme “Stop Requiring Your President to Be An Entertainer,” and emphasize thoughtfulness over perceived coolness.

And then the very worst possible thing happened.
L.N. Smithee (b84cf6) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:56 pm
Cruz might not have built Trump….that song by The Rolling Stones–Gimme Shelter.

That might explain something.
Danube River Guide (76b104) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:58 pm
Ever watch Survivor?

Danube River Guide (76b104) — 5/12/2016 @ 12:54 pm

No, I don’t, because I hate those shows. Unlike American Idol and The Amazing Race, which are actual competitions, Survivor, Big Brother, and others like them are nothing but backstabbing competitions. The biggest, most brazen a$$hole wins.

That’s what Trump did: He turned the Republican Primaries and debates into a backstabbing contest, and he won.

And you know why.
L.N. Smithee (b84cf6) — 5/12/2016 @ 1:00 pm
Patterico,

Question: do you think that Reagan could have persuaded Sunglass guy?

I’d say “maybe” — he had a lot of Trump’s people voting for him — but at the point of that Cruz’ encounter I think Reagan would have brushed him off in a way that made Reagan look wise and made everyone else think Sunglasses was being silly. “There you go again!” and then counter-filibuster him with something, possibly irrelevant, that the crowd generally agreed with.

Cruz made the guy look brighter than he was by engaging and listening to his moroniscisms as if they were cogent. Instead of smashing him flat with humor, he raised the guy up and, worse, spent his ordinance on a mud fort.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 5/12/2016 @ 1:05 pm
Cruz was right to handle Trump the way he did. The fact he was the last real competitor proves it.

I disagree. He ducked the fight until too late. He was the last because he helped Trump drive out his competitors early. It wasn’t really until Rubio was fatally wounded that Cruz started treating Trump as the main threat. WAYYYYY TOO LATE.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 5/12/2016 @ 1:08 pm
Honestly, when the sunglasses dude cited “the wall”, Cruz should have told him that he was way ahead of the Donald.
felipe (325ff3) — 5/12/2016 @ 1:14 pm
Honestly, when the sunglasses dude cited “the wall”, Cruz should have told him that he was way ahead of the Donald.

And hence the problem with Cruz. Not loud enough, not brash enough to make people believe he would actually build it. Re:

So, in terms of a practical solution, I’ve laid out the most detailed plan for solving illegal immigration. It’s 11 pages, single-spaced, chapter and verse. It’s on our website, tedcruz.org.

In short, we’re going to do, we’re going to build a wall. We’re going to triple the border patrol. We’re going to increase — and actually, since Donald enjoyed that, I will simply say, I’ve got somebody in mind to build it.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/02/06/ted-cruz-were-going-to-build-a-wall/

No normal person gives a rat’s about how many pages and whether or not it’s single or double spaced. Very, very few normal people bother to visit a candidates web site. And the very, very few that do visit #1 the site of the guy they like and MAAAAAYYYYBEEE #2 the site of the guy they hate.
WTP (5ea774) — 5/12/2016 @ 1:25 pm
Also, how Reagan dealt with the Sunglasses-types in his day…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpg0UfpuUAs
WTP (5ea774) — 5/12/2016 @ 1:33 pm
Cruz should have been carrying and quietly but with dead aim dealt with that guy in the most certain terms. “This might not be Fifth Avenue, but its close to Fifth Street, I hear”.
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 5/12/2016 @ 1:51 pm
The biggest, most brazen a$$hole wins.

***********
‘
Might be why I referenced it. Do not mistake me for a Trump fan.
Danube River Guide (76b104) — 5/12/2016 @ 3:13 pm
Debate has always been futile. A gun to the forehead is more efficient.
Spike (6cce3b) — 5/12/2016 @ 4:12 pm
to dismiss the objections to red queen, suggests a systemic problem,

http://journalofamericangreatness.blogspot.com/2016/05/trump-sullivan-and-caesarism.html
narciso (732bc0) — 5/12/2016 @ 4:53 pm
“Vote for Trump, and all your dreams come true. Respect, power …”
“Banana!”
“… banana!”
nk (dbc370) — 5/12/2016 @ 4:57 pm
I’ll see your Star Trek and raise you Minions. I don’t know about the other Trumpkins, but I’m sure that ours went to him because they found out that Scarlet Overkill is a fictional character.
nk (dbc370) — 5/12/2016 @ 5:00 pm
And I see the gnashing of teeth and the rending of Underoos® continuesszzzzz
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 5/12/2016 @ 5:05 pm
My daughter is an Iraq vet. Served 15 months in Iraq as a prison guard, guarding terrorists and insurgents. She will never, under any circumstances, vote for Chump. She is a Cruz girl. My daughter served so you Leftist twits wouldn’t have to. Born in 1988, she watched as the rest of the world did as the Twin Towers came down, and decided then and there she was going in the military. She had to wait for a few years until she was old enough, and with her parents’ signatures, she signed the contract prior to her 18th birthday and showed up at Ft Leonard Wood the day before her 18th birthday. And served 5.5 years, SOM, SOQ while in Iraq.

She served so you Leftist trash wouldn’t have to. And she’s a Cruz supporter.
John Hitchcock (ddb4db) — 5/12/2016 @ 5:15 pm
A very rich lawyer is approached by the United Way. The man from the United Way is concerned that the lawyer made over a million dollars last year but didn’t donate even a cent to a charity.

“First of all”, says the lawyer, “my mother is sick and dying in the hospital, and it’s not covered by healthcare. Second, I had five kids through three divorced marriages. Third, my sister’s husband suddenly died and she has no one to support her four children…”

“I’m terribly sorry”, says the United Way man, “I feel bad about asking for money.”

The Lawyer responds, “Yeah, well if I’m not giving them any money, why should I give you any?”

. /
mg (31009b) — 5/12/2016 @ 5:28 pm
“Air Force Witness: Yes, We Could Have Flown to Benghazi and Saved Tyrone Wood and Glen Dougherty But We Were Told to Stand Down
—Ace

I’m so tired of the liberals and their big-government-boosting Republican allies covering this up.

There are witnesses. They want to tell the story. They cannot, because they have been threatened with severe consequences if they allegedly violate their non-disclosure agreements.

They are do not wish to disclose anything about any classified matter; they simply want to talk about political choices. But of course, Obama and Hillary’s callous disregard for American lives is the only kind of “national security secret” these motherf***ers care about protecting.

Obama is blocking them from talking, and then telling the country “there’s no story here” when no witnesses speak…”

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/363428.php
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 5/12/2016 @ 5:29 pm
if mcconnellslut and sleazy corrupt wiscotrash budget-buster paul ryan wanted to get the truth out they could Mr. Colonel

they don’t
happyfeet (831175) — 5/12/2016 @ 5:39 pm
two suggest coincidence,

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKCN0Y21TN
narciso (732bc0) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:20 pm
side by side with pee-stank

Mr. Trump really shines

His secret weapon?

Not smelling like pee!
happyfeet (831175) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:26 pm
Kevin M,

Rubio’s attacks on Trump only hurt Rubio, who is far more likeable than Cruz. It would have hurt Cruz even more to do that early in the cycle when no one knew who Cruz was. The only possible way to stop Trump would have been a torrent of negative ads by a well-funded anti-Trump PAC last Summer when Trump announced, and no one was willing or able to do that. It would have seemed like a waste of money on a fringe candidate.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:42 pm
Now we’ll see what happens when the Democrats do it.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:43 pm
this is a reform candidate year

that’s why Mr. Trump won the R primary

that’s why the creepy old socialist is doing so well

in the general you’ll have a reform candidate against a stale criminal pee-stank

this math, it is not hard
happyfeet (831175) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:50 pm
I can’t explain details,
I’ll just say they needed to oppose Trump without sounding like him.
It was not in Rubio.or Cruz or others to act like an a–hole
And it was unseemly, they only sullied themselves with what Trump thrives in

Hard as a rock but without sharp edges.

Most of us find it easy to be “nice” or jerks,
We don’t find it easy to be good, which is firm and doesn’t give.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:53 pm
Well, while we’re telling stories of our relatives’ noble deeds,

My father was a WWII vet. After 3 months of basic infantry training in Camp Wheeler, GA, and passing through transit Camp Shenango, PA and Fort Lewis, WA, he was shipped to Co. K, 17th Inf. of the 7th Division in the Aleutian Islands for replacement for men killed on Attu. Served as rifleman on Kiska and Adak. Assigned as Sgt in infantry rifle company.

Shipped to Hawaii in Oct. of 1943 with 7th Division for combat training in South Pacific. Took crash course training on a new weapon, the Bazooka. Feb 1, 1944 assault wave on Kwajalein. Fired Bazooka at Jap pill boxes made of coconut logs and sand and because of soft impact surface, shells did not explode. Threw bazooka away and grabbed M1 from dead soldier and finished the battle as rifleman. Shipped back to Hawaii in Feb/Mar of 1944 for more training. Trained in communications to be radio operator for rifle platoon. Oct 20, 1944 they invaded Leyte in the Philippines. Heavy fighting and many casualties. He was wounded on Oct. 27, 1944 and spent 6 weeks in Army hospital in Hollanda, New Guinea.

Arrived back with Co. K 17th Inf. 7th Div. in Leyte in Jan 1945. Battle over, occupation and more training with 7th Div. for next invasion. Easter Sunday, April 1 1945, 4:00 AM assault wave on beaches of Okinawa with K Company, their company had largest number of casualties of any of 3 previous battles. Company relieved of front line duty because of minimum strength due to casualties. Our own P38 fighters strafed them. Our own ships shelled them. Very difficult fighting by ____ Japs. Promoted to 1st Sgt. They finished the Okinawa battle by end of July.

After Japs surrendered they were sent as the first troops to occupy Korea. Inchon, Japs at parade rest, bolts out of rifles. US troops loaded down with live ammo. Amazing that not a shot fired at docks. When they got into town, hauled mounted police off of their horses and took their guns. After order established, moved to Seoul in charcoal buses and trucks. Occupied capital until Nov 1945 discharge.

My father passed away in 2007. It would be wrong of me to say who he would or would not have supported in this primary mess. However he was a man who respected differing points of view. He had life-long friends who were Democrats. I am still in touch with one to this day. A WWII bomber crew gunner. He and his wife had supported Hillary in 2008. Don’t discuss politics with him or his wife much. He’s 94 years old (I think, maybe more, lost track) but still sharp in his timing and wit. A good man, married to a good wife, both of whom, despite our political differences, mean the world to me. Their grandson has worked in Afghanistan in some capacity, the specifics of which I don’t recall exactly. I believe he had a medical restriction or some problem such that he couldn’t join the military, so he signed up with a civilian company to work there.

This country was once made of tougher stuff than this. You people need to get a grip.
WTP (094b61) — 5/12/2016 @ 6:54 pm
PART II of GROWL

by Gerard Allen Van der Ginsberg

“What Socialist Party of lies and slavery bashed open American skulls and sucked out their freedom, brains and imagination?

Democrat! Darwinist Solitude! NEA Filth! Pelosi Perversion! Obamunist Onanism. NPR racism! Recycling Cans to find unobtainable dollars to pay off deficit trillions! Unborn children screaming silent under the D&C! Boys sobbing for fathers! Girls for mothers! Wives for husbands! Husbands for families! Impoverished old men and weeping in the parks!

Democrat! Democrat! Nightmare of Democrat! Democrat the loveless! Gone mental Democrat! Democrat the heavy aggregation of girly-men!

Democrat the incomprehensible African-American electoral plantation system of perpetual ideological slavery! Democrat the skull & crossbones soulless Senate and Congress of corruption!

Democrat whose headquarters are Fascist overbuilding with gun slits! Democrat the vast bloating stone of Deficit! Democrat the broke government of the pauper nation!

Democrat whose mind is pure rusted machinery! Democrat whose blood is gushing tax money! Democrat whose skeleton fingers are in your wallet!

Democrat whose breast is a transsexual dynamo! Democrat whose mouth is a smoking tomb! Democrat of the atheist thumb pulling out a plum and saying what a free to be a very bad boy am I! Democrat whose only god is Dracula!

Democrat whose eyes are a thousand shattered factory windows! Democrat whose empty skyscrapers smolder in the long Detroit streets like endless Molochs! Democrat whose brains dream Utopia and choke in the fog of their flatulent dementia! Democrat whose fuming bongs and facial piercings crown the crapulous cities!

Democrat whose love is lust! Democrat whose soul is welfare and affirmative racism! Democrat whose poverty is perpetual servitude to the government salad bar, no seconds!

Democrat whose only true Doctor and Cure is Kevorkian! Democrat whose foreign policy is a cloud of glowing Iranian hydrogen! Democrat whose wh0re is BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH!

Democrat in whom I once sat lonely! Democrat in whom I once dreamt the New Jerusalem! Crazy in Democrat! Sucker of crock in Democrat! Lacklove and lobotomy in Democrat!

Democrat of the Dot.com I’ve Got Mine Now Give Us Yours Centimillionaires! Democrat of Bush Derangement Syndrome! Democrat of the dried dugs of Ariana Huffington’s Code Pink Synchronized Menopause Flasher Brigade known as “The View”!

Democrat who entered my soul early! Democrat in whom I was sold down the River without Huck or a raft and put over the falls of flowing ideological crypto-socialist sewage! Drowned in recycled recycled recycled compost of Democrat! Democrat who frightened me out of my natural freedom and into hive-mind chants of GLO-BA’ALWARMING-O-BA-MA, GLO-BA’ALWARMING-O-BA-MA!

Democrat of the planet has four months to live! Democrat of lies for the common good of Democrat! Democrat of crapper rapper lies of the soul! Democrat whom I abandon!

Democrat demanding that I give all to the State! Vomit in Democrat! Avenging Angels streaming out of the sky! Death of Democrat from above! God’s righteous fire on the heads of Democrat-Acorn!, Democrat-SIEU! Democrat-California!, Democrat-Detroit! Democrat-Chicago! Democrat-San Fraudcisco!

Democrat! Democrat! Robot apparatchiks! Maoist czars! Evaporated liberties! Skeleton treasuries! Dictator judges! Demonic policies! Spectral communities of Democrat delusional control! Insane Democrat media madhouses! Olbermann suckers of Democrat crock! Monstrous media leg-tingle “analysis”! Democrat of presidential prop-up! Democrat of Journ-O-list talking pointed heads! Democrat of “Too Big to Fail When Failing!”

Deception of Democrat! Voters broke their backs lifting Democrat to Heaven! Payments fees now for unborn generations mostly to be aborted, for trees, for tobacco, for tilted windmills, for tons of things so bad, very bad for you we know better pay us now for Democrat death panels later! Democrat of Constitution as toilet paper! Democrat of blowing the cities and American land to hell in a hand-basket!

Visions! omens! hallucinations! miracles! ecstasies! hope of the world sold down the American river!

Democrat destruction of legal immigrant Dreams! Democrat of border war beheadings of citizens! Graven Image Adorations made to tin gods! Crack-pipe Illuminations crammed down the throat of taxpayers! Cap and Trade Religions! Democrat rowing ashore the whole boatload of sensitive socialist bullsh*t!

Democrat of a pale horse and the name that sat on him was Democrat Death! And Democrat Hell followed with him!

Democrat Breakthroughs in suicide machines! Democrat rivers of toxic educational sludge rising to flood levels in the minds of our children! New Orleans Democrat looting! Democrat flips and crucifixions of enemies, enemies, enemies flagged at flag@whitehouse.gov! Bill of Rights flushed down the Democrat crapper!

Democrat heroin fueled voter fraud! Democrat Epiphanies of mandated Abortion for all not just for choosy barren Democrat! Democrat Despairs of eternal urban ghettos! Six years’ animal screams and suicide of the Republic for which Democrat does not stand!

Democrat Colonized Minds! New lusts for nothing and Democrat kicks and food stamps for free! Mad Democrat cashed-out clunker generation!

Free people despair of Democrat! Free people revolt against socialist utopia con-artists! Free people sound real holy laughter in the river! They saw it all! the wild eyes! the holy yells! They bade farewell to Democrat! They jumped off the roof! to vote out Democrat forever! waving! carrying flowers! packing heat! Down to the river of freedom! into the street of Liberty, armed and dangerous, Free people voting death to Democrat nightmare now and forever in God’s holy war! Free people, mine eyes have seen the Glory!”

http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/inverse/democrat.php
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 5/12/2016 @ 7:06 pm
And here’s Ted Cruz winding up to give his wife a shot in the kisser.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 5/12/2016 @ 9:09 pm
The HIV–excuse me, High Information Voter–is likely to be wondering how Cruz was going to fix things. The HIV knows how screwed up things are. He knows how screwed up Trump is. He knows what a smart, committed conservative Cruz is. So tell the HIV how Cruz is going to fix things. Or even start a movement which will, a couple of degrees a year, start to move the course of The Leviathan onto a new course.
Start right in.
Richard Aubrey (472a6f) — 5/13/2016 @ 4:28 am

5/11/2016

On Political Persuasion

160 Responses to “On Political Persuasion”

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