Patterico's Pontifications

Hello.

Dana (0ee61a) — 3/20/2016 @ 11:39 am

I got pummeled at a Mr. Trump rally and all I got was this lousy t-shirt plus when I got home we made Duncan Hines brownies

happyfeet (831175) — 3/20/2016 @ 11:48 am

That’s a lot of people. Not like one of those Potemkin Obama rallies where the media make sure not to show the 7/8ths of the auditorium empty.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/20/2016 @ 11:54 am

The Moochers For Bernie, Black Olives Kalamata, and MoveOn.Soros are there to provoke violence, to get it shown on television, and to provoke reaction and invoke sympathy from their allies. It’s the Baader-Meinhof strategy. It will work in their favor for their partisans, and in Trump’s favor for his partisans. For people like me, who see it for what it is, it arouses contempt for the agitator without necessarily making me more sympathetic to Trump.

nk (dbc370) — 3/20/2016 @ 11:57 am

There’s one thing, though.

All of this is Trump at his own rallies (where he’s actually trying to do soemthing wrong, but just a little wrong, just enough so that he gets the opposition of the media and a lot of other people, so he can look like he’s all alone – the only good person running – to his supporters, without alienating other people too much)

But the protesters are trying to shut him down, thereby being part of the totalitarian
left. It’s not that the organizers feel that Trump is so bad, or so illegitimate as a political igure that he must be shut down – it’s that they feel that they can indirectly convince others that Trump is illegitimate as a political figure because they are trying to shut him down.

Now, shutting down other people’s meetings is worse than responding improperly to people who attempt to disrupt your own meetings. So between Trump and the protesters, the protesters are teh worse problem in American politics. Besides, also, the protesters are lying, – they are trying to depict Trump as a racist (usually the protesters are all black) rather thna a countryist using a lot of the tropes of racism,- i.e. one person, or a few people, in a category is bad, so they are all bad, or at least they deserve to be discriminated against.

There is also as well a tendency to overgeneralize about Moslems, and perpetual misstatements of facts, and a economist philosophy based on creating and preserving economic rents.
the problem

Sammy Finkelman (9b50c7) — 3/20/2016 @ 11:57 am

Are you Teddites getting protest envy?

I mean, if you are a liberal s^*t for brains, why bother protesting at a Cruz rally. You can get ignored at home.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/20/2016 @ 11:58 am

In the first clip, you can see the sleeve of the jacket of the hand grabbing the collar, it is the guy with the sport coat and light blue shirt. If that is the “l-ski” person, the press release is a lie.

one would think it pretty stupid for that person to do anything at all questionable with the recent past in view.

The one person was arrested, would be interesting to get follow up of the details of the arrest and the investigation, who posted bail, etc.

From what little I know, I think the reaction will be as nk says, just stir up those who tend to get stirred up, on whichever side they are on.

MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (f315c7) — 3/20/2016 @ 12:02 pm

Hmm. Just a thought.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can%27t_Happen_Here

Simon Jester (4267ce) — 3/20/2016 @ 12:08 pm

Once the first punch flew, where did the klansman/nazisaluting/liberal’s hood go?

Why doesn’t the ADL ever complain of the Soros paid spook mask wearers?

When will they send his money back?

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/20/2016 @ 12:10 pm

At 7

I find it moronic, that Sinclair Lewis would wank up an imaginary populist American dictator from free market conservatives, while living under the second term of FDR.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/20/2016 @ 12:18 pm

And I wonder what folks in the 1930s would think of folks supporting Trump?

Remember, this book was a thinly veiled poke at the recently assassinated Huey Long…not anyone related to free market conservatives (and Mr. Trump is neither of those things). Studying Huey Long’s career is quite illuminating.

But yes, it is easier to say “moronic,” isn’t it?

Simon Jester (4267ce) — 3/20/2016 @ 12:25 pm

Actually, it was the first term of FDR, but what is really surprising is that the real thing was forming on the far left in ~~Mordor~~ Louisiana in the form of Huey Long. Only a month after discussing a run against FDR, Long was assassinated by the son of a disgruntled office-seeker.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/20/2016 @ 12:31 pm

Hicks!

nk (dbc370) — 3/20/2016 @ 12:33 pm

Also, Sinclair Lewis’ character was not a free-market guy at all — he was an out-and-out fascist. You could call the “right” or you could call that “left” — it’s the point where the two sides merge at the Statist end of things.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/20/2016 @ 12:35 pm

As for actual fascism during FDR’s time, his National Industrial Recovery Act was pretty far down that path economically.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/20/2016 @ 12:38 pm

Remember what we are discussing here: the violence at Trump’s rallies are against people who come there to “protest” Trump.

Trump’s followers are not infiltrating other people’s rallies and busting them up–that’s what Leftists and fascists do.

Every Republican candidate since 1948 has been compared to Hitler.

I know we don’t like Trump, but doing the Left’s work for them is going to get you President Trump.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 12:43 pm

Moronic is the right word.
I was going to use ironic because Lewis’ warning of the dangers of electing a big entitlement “everybody is a King” public pension Democrat while living under FDR.
It’s like worrying about future rains flooding you out, while you are treading water in the middle of a lake.

But then I realized the point of your post was to call me a Nazi with a bit of window dressing as subterfuge.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/20/2016 @ 12:46 pm

You really do thinks everything is about you, huh?

I think Trump is a dangerous clown. That hasn’t anything to do with you.

What is going on with folks these days. Very weird.

Simon Jester (4267ce) — 3/20/2016 @ 12:56 pm

Kevin, I also think that “A Face in the Crowd” is instructive.

Simon Jester (4267ce) — 3/20/2016 @ 12:57 pm

The 300,000 people stuck on the freeway when anti-Trump protestors blocked it so they could “Shut It Down”–do you think they felt Trump was the fascist?

The people with the slogan “Shut It Down”, referring to political activity they don’t agree with–aren’t they the real fascists?

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 1:05 pm

We can keep two ideas in our head at the same time. That is, (1) these are leftwing thugs and agitators deliberately trying to cause a reaction or shut down ideas they don’t like (much like the campus radicals) and (2) Trump has exercised poor, at best, judgment in not trying to calm things down but, instead, giving a wink and a nod.

(1) is worse than (2) but that’s not an excuse for (2). Nor should be it be.

SteveMG (6f6dc7) — 3/20/2016 @ 1:21 pm

papertiger,

I don’t even think Trump is a Nazi. Now, if he gets elected and starts rounding up Muslims an putting them in camps I might change my mind, but until then he’s just a garden-variety fascist: strongman rule, crony capital, crony labor, crony government, favored classes.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/20/2016 @ 1:22 pm

SteveMG,

We can even entertain other thoughts, like “Boy these road blockages and riots are convenient for Trump.” As far as shutting down ideas, go over to Instapundit and see how the “comment report” function gets used to shut down Trump critics.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/20/2016 @ 1:25 pm

@SteveMG:(1) is worse than (2) but that’s not an excuse for (2). Nor should be it be.

That is correct, (1) should not excuse (2).

But why does that justify Dana’s post talking only about (2) to the exclusion of (1)? Not one word from Dana on the blocking of the freeway.

It sure doesn’t sound like Dana or Patterico have ANY room in their heads for (1).

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 1:28 pm

@Kevin M:We can even entertain other thoughts, like “Boy these road blockages and riots are convenient for Trump.”

Kindly spell it out. Trump is to blame? Trump conspired? If it wasn’t for Trump Leftists would never do this sort of thing, they only thought of it now?

As far as shutting down ideas, go over to Instapundit and see how the “comment report” function gets used to shut down Trump critics.

That’s up to the people running the blog, is it not?

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 1:30 pm

Look Trump can ratchet this down a lot if he wanted to. Use humor, tell his people that they’re better than these thugs, make fun of himself or the protesters (“Look at these losers. We’re winners and don’t have to respond to them”). There are a number of ways to tone things down AND get the benefit of the matter. Humor is the best way.

But his instinct seems to be to ratchet things up, to make it worse. I have to admit I don’t watch all of his rallies so maybe he does try to calm things down and it’s not reported.

And his supporters (I’m generalizing here) think that turning the other cheek is weak, that it’s important to stand up to the PC police and liberals and be tough. That’s silly. Punching out one of these jerks doesn’t make you tough. They’re jerks; you’re lowering yourself to them by doing so.

So all three elements – the leftwing agitators, his more “exuberant” supporters who want to be tough, and his desire to ratchet it up for his benefit are making it worse not calming things down.

This is just another example, for me, of how unqualified he is for the presidency. He really could calm things down more than he has (again, I don’t watch every rally so maybe he’s tried).

SteveMG (6f6dc7) — 3/20/2016 @ 2:09 pm

This is just another example, for me, of how unqualified he is for the presidency. He really could calm things down more than he has (again, I don’t watch every rally so maybe he’s tried).
SteveMG (6f6dc7) — 3/20/2016 @ 2:09 pm

Pointing out another similarity between Trump and Obama.

MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (f315c7) — 3/20/2016 @ 2:16 pm

@SteveMG:He really could calm things down more than he has

What have Hillary, Bernie, and Barack done to calm down the Shut It Down crowd–who are their supporters?

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 2:17 pm

I’m not in favor of calming the situation down, because that would be rewarding those who are the real thugs here; the “protestors” invading rallies, blocking roads, etc. Appeasing thugs like them is every bit as unwise as appeasing dictators.

I’m a Cruz guy, but I back Trump on this issue, and wish Cruz had done the same.

I also predict that these clashes in Arizona have removed any doubt as to who will get Arizona’s 58 delegates Tuesday.

Arizona CJ (da673d) — 3/20/2016 @ 2:49 pm

hmmm…. the ted campaign said it would blackball conservatives if they don’t support Cruz.
that will ultimately turn more voters against him.

…and you wonder why Cruz is losing, eh? ..perhaps it has to do that he is largely disliked
by the majority of the country (especially… on his lack of handling the immigration issue.)
…and on the fact he is pro-muslim, rather than against allowing them to immigrate into the USA.

*lol* want Ted Cruz to win… hahaha…
tell him to repeal 0bamacare. that will be the only method that gains him support

but looking how he has so lil support, what makes you think he can beat hillary.

I know Trump will be able to beat her, he has no weaknesses.
….unlike Hillary’s: benghazi, email scandal, bill clinton rapes, and hillarycare
all of which will turn voters against her.

YourMaster (c7e392) — 3/20/2016 @ 2:56 pm

It’s not lefties punching out Trumpkins at these rallies, Gabriel Hanna.

Leviticus (a6edbd) — 3/20/2016 @ 2:57 pm

History lesson for today:

In 1838, as a 28-year-old state legislator, Abraham Lincoln delivered an address at the Young Men’s Lyceum of Springfield, Ill. The speech was given in the aftermath of the lynching of a mixed-race boatman and the burning of a black abolitionist newspaper editor. Lincoln warned that a “mobocratic spirit” and “wild and furious passions” posed a threat to republican institutions. He also alerted people to the danger of individuals — “an Alexander, a Caesar or a Napoleon?” — who, in their search for glory and power, might pose a threat to American self-government.

“Is it unreasonable, then, to expect that some man possessed of the loftiest genius, coupled with ambition sufficient to push it to its utmost stretch, will at some time spring up among us?” Lincoln asked.

The antidote to this threat, Lincoln argued, was to cultivate a “political religion” that emphasized “reverence for the laws.” Passion was our enemy, he warned; it had to be contained. “Reason — cold, calculating, unimpassioned reason — must furnish all the materials for our future support and defense.”

Lincoln was a keen student and great interpreter of the founders, and of course the founders also thought deeply about how a self-governing people could restrain political passions. In his book “Madison’s Metronome,” the scholar Greg Weiner points out that James Madison’s lifelong concern was that majorities would be governed by emotion rather than reason, the “cool” faculty. In Mr. Weiner’s words, Madison “portrayed passion through metaphors that suggested rapid and uncontrolled spread, including those of fires, fevers, pestilence and contagions.”

Before the Constitutional Convention, Madison undertook an extraordinarily thorough study of various forms of government. How might the Constitution protect us from what Aristotle called “the insolence of demagogues”?

Among the defects of ancient and modern republics, Madison wrote, were “popular assemblages, so quickly formed, so susceptible of contagious passions, so exposed to the misguidance of eloquent and ambitious leaders, and so apt to be tempted by the facility of forming interested majorities, into measures unjust and oppressive to the minor parties.”

Which brings us back to Donald Trump….

Madison couldn’t imagine the sort of “eloquence” that moves voters in the days of reality TV, but yeah, otherwise: Pretty much.

Beldar (fa637a) — 3/20/2016 @ 2:58 pm

Opps, left out the link.

Beldar (fa637a) — 3/20/2016 @ 2:58 pm

Thank you for that one, Beldar. My brother, quite the historian, gives me good perspective.

But I fear most people don’t know history these days. Santayana was right.

Simon Jester (4267ce) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:00 pm

But why does that justify Dana’s post talking only about (2) to the exclusion of (1)? Not one word from Dana on the blocking of the freeway.

It sure doesn’t sound like Dana or Patterico have ANY room in their heads for (1).

Gabriel Hanna,

While I don’t believe I (nor anyone else, certainly) need to justify what I put in a post, I will explain to you what happened with this post. This particular post, which was not an opinion piece, nor filled with commentary, rather it was a “here’s what happened” post. Just like the title implies. Simple. I wrote the post late last night. Just trying to get the video embeds to work took until around 11:45. I emailed our host at 11:46 pm in frustration as it wasn’t functioning and asked him for help. After not hearing back, I was back at it this morning trying to get the embed to work. That was another 45 minutes gone. That was simply all the time I had to give to this post. I chose (and was limited by time) to focus only on what took inside the rallies, given the Lewandowski incident and the pummeling of the protester took place inside the venue. I didn’t have time nor energy to focus on what went on outside of the venue.

With that, number (1) is certainly a possibility, and one that I won’t let go unchecked when time permits. Number (2) is a certainty. I’m also interested in Kevin M’s comment: We can even entertain other thoughts, like “Boy these road blockages and riots are convenient for Trump.

Thank you for taking the time to read and comment on my posts. I appreciate it.

Dana (0ee61a) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:01 pm

Sinclair Lewis, like Nathaniel West, had contempt for the common folk, as did Woody Guthrie, the lumpen don’t have the right minds, the Buckley braintrust seem to concur,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:05 pm

It’s not lefties punching out Trumpkins at these rallies, Gabriel Hanna.

Trumpkins are not invading leftie rallies to “Shut It Down”, so they are not there to get punched.

And the number of punchings, I might add, is in the single digits.

How many people were “Shut Down” on that freeway by people who think no one should be allowed to attend a Trump rally?

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:11 pm

we’ve lived under the spirit of such a man, for eight years, and yet the token opposition, has rarely expressed it’s vituperation to the degree, we see here,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:11 pm

I agree with you on that point, narciso.

But I do think we have set things up so that folks who know pretty much nothing about anything can vote. That’s not shorthand for “disagree with me.”

I would love to have a simple test in order to vote:

Name the President.
Name the Vice-President.
Name the Speaker of the House.
Name the three branches of government.
Define the First Amendment.
State the year in which the Civil War was fought.

Heck, with those six, I think I could change the nature of the electorate.

But I would be called horrible names.

Unlike Buckley, I don’t ask for much from the voter.

Simon Jester (4267ce) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:11 pm

In each of the many appearances Kasich had on the network Sunday morning news shows today, he did manage to match Trump in one bit of bizarro-world hyperbole, when he insisted that the people urging him to get out of the race now are “the same establishment Republicans who’ve been opposing me for my entire career.”

Meaning, I suppose, his career as an establish Republican.

Kasich, Trump & Hillary are all “establishment” politicians, the principal difference among them being that Trump is a buyer of influence while Hillary & Kasich are sellers.

Beldar (fa637a) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:12 pm

@Dana:With that, number (1) is certainly a possibility, and one that I won’t let go unchecked when time permits. Number (2) is a certainty. I’m also interested in Kevin M’s comment: We can even entertain other thoughts, like “Boy these road blockages and riots are convenient for Trump.”

Yes, you will find time for the motes in the eyes of Trump’s supporters, and you may eventually find time for the beam in the eyes of Hillary and Bernie’s supporters.

And this is why Trump is doing as well as he is doing.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:12 pm

A much worthier candidate of humble roots, was spit upon eight years ago, by most of these same voices, Will,Madden, Parker, MacDonald, Noonan, they saw Obama as the lesser evil, so lets not get on our high horse,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:16 pm

“As far as shutting down ideas, go over to Instapundit and see how the “comment report” function gets used to shut down Trump critics.”

That’s up to the people running the blog, is it not?

No, it’s up to the people pushing the button. Some people are keen to censor, some are not. The correlations are obvious though.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:19 pm

Let’s suppose that Trump fizzles out and we’re left with Ted Cruz.

When Cruz’s followers are called racist and authoritarians, as Romney’s were and McCain’s were and Bush’s were;

When Cruz’s rallies are infiltrated by protesters who are there to “Shut It Down”;

When Hillary and Bernie are not held to account for anything their followers do, and Cruz is held responsible for anything and everything done by anyone who claims to support him, and blamed for not doing enough to rein it in;

What will you have to say then? That you agreed with these tactics when Trump was the victim but now that it’s Cruz it’s not okay?

Who do you think will listen?

The time to call out the Left on their fascism is now.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:29 pm

Kasich, at the conclusion of his interview taped yesterday, but broadcast on today’s “Face the Nation,” after some preliminary discussion of the presently pending but doomed Supreme Court nomination (italics & exclamation point mine, but they fairly & correctly reflect Kasich’s voice inflection & enthusiasm):

JOHN DICKERSON: As someone who’s talked about unity, would you, uh, would you take a look at Mr. [sic — D.C. Circuit Chief Judge Merrick] Garland when you, uh, if you were elected President?

JOHN KASICH: Well, you know, he received overwhelming support, I think even from Senator Hatch. So of course we’d think about it! The way we do it, John, is we look at a person’s record. I want a conservative who’s not going to make the law, but who will interpret the law. And somebody of high standing — I don’t care about their peccadillos, you know, 30 years ago. Uh, but, yeah: We have a process. I’ve appointed over a hundred judges in Ohio including a woman that fortunately I was able to appoint to the Ohio Supreme Court. And we’ve had good success with our selections.

Then immediately after that pre-taped interview, this:

JOHN DICKERSON: After we taped that interview yesterday, Governor Kasich said that he would not appoint Judge Garland to the Supreme Court and that his comments were an effort to be polite.

Thus does John Kasich disclose his profound lack of seriousness, focus, preparedness, or credibility on the subject of judicial appointments generally, and in particular with respect to the potentially Court-swinging vacancy created by Justice Scalia’s death.

Beldar (fa637a) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:32 pm

that is the skillfull steering of John ‘Splunge’ Weaver, the one who enabled the ‘adultery’ libel against McCain, and subsequently signed onto the SS Huntsman,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:36 pm

Among the defects of ancient and modern republics, Madison wrote, were “popular assemblages, so quickly formed, so susceptible of contagious passions, so exposed to the misguidance of eloquent and ambitious leaders, and so apt to be tempted by the facility of forming interested majorities, into measures unjust and oppressive to the minor parties.”

Which is to say, demagogues.

But emotional appeals and irrational attacks are not new. We’ve always had them. Adams vs Jefferson was as dirty as it gets. Jackson and Van Buren played very rough. James Blaine was notorious for immigrant-bashing and Wilson brought the Klan to D.C. And of course Long and McCarthy and Wallace. And now Trump.

Hopefully the genius of the system is not that it prevents emotional appeals, but that it withstands them.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:36 pm

I would love to have a simple test in order to vote:

Heck, “What is six times seven?” would weed out 10%.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:38 pm

When Cruz’s followers are called racist and authoritarians, as Romney’s were and McCain’s were and Bush’s were;

But Cruz and the rest aren’t out there saying overtly racist things. Trump is. Sorry you can’t see that subtle difference.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:40 pm

@ Mr. Hanna (#42), who asked:

What will you have to say then? That you agreed with these tactics when Trump was the victim but now that it’s Cruz it’s not okay?

I might have missed it, but I don’t recall any commenters on this post on this blog who are agreeing with, or supporting, or even refusing to acknowledge, the deliberately provocative and often unlawful conduct of the people who are disrupting campaign events — anyone’s. I also agree with you entirely that the Left will employ these same disruptive tactics no matter who becomes the GOP’s nominee.

It’s not that I fail to share your outrage at the Left. It’s that I don’t see much point in venting about that here. If I wanted to vent about that, or persuade anyone on the Left that they ought to change or moderate their conduct and tactics, then I’d go post that comment elsewhere.

Whether Trump is behaving appropriately himself, though — in his speech and actions, and in his direction of his campaign (including the thug who appears to be his campaign manager, who reminds me of a slimmed down, younger Luca Brasi) — surely these things are also appropriate topics for discussion and, potentially, persuasion, in the comments of this blog.

Beldar (fa637a) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:42 pm

maybe if a dozen years, this constructivist template hadn’t obeen introduced under nclb, if john stewart had not been treated as gospel, had rove not told w to be a basenghi against the onslaught against every one of his policies,

McCarthy was crude, but more accurate then the prevailng narrative,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:43 pm

OT: As Insty points out, the tweet of the day comes in response to Obama’s clueless tweet to all Cuban citizens.

http://moelane.com/2016/03/20/tweet-of-the-day-cubans-are-just-props-for-this-president-edition/

“They’re not allowed to use Twitter or the internet, Mr. President. “

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:46 pm

@KevinM:But Cruz and the rest aren’t out there saying overtly racist things. Trump is. Sorry you can’t see that subtle difference.

I can tell the difference between overt racism and its absence, but the media, at the behest of the Left, will claim that Cruz is overtly racist just as they did every other Republican candidate in my lifetime.

@Beldar:Whether Trump is behaving appropriately himself, though — in his speech and actions, and in his direction of his campaign (including the thug who appears to be his campaign manager, who reminds me of a slimmed down, younger Luca Brasi) — surely these things are also appropriate topics for discussion and, potentially, persuasion, in the comments of this blog.

I agree. That is why I think calling Trump a racist and a fascist is a terrible idea. Those things are not true, and you are doing the Left’s work for them.

Call Trump out for being an ignorant phoney, a buffoon, a guy who says whatever he thinks people want to hear. Do not do to him what the Left is doing to him and to every other person with an (R) after their name.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:47 pm

narcisco–

jon stewart as a demagogue. Interesting.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:47 pm

well he demagogues, but his palaver was treated as holy writ,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:57 pm

Again, in all of this discussion over the last several months, I’ve yet to hear positive reasons for backing Trump other than some jingoistic claims like “He’ll make America great!”

There are some, you know. They aren’t particularly conservative reasons, but there are reasons, mostly relating to jobs and the terrible results of both parties competing economics that have squeezed the stuffing out of the American middle class.

Moving manufacturing and back-office jobs overseas (jobs that a high-school diploma once qualified one for). Rampant import of semi-skilled workers (jobs that manual skills or a strong back qualified one for). Increased import of technology workers, and offshoring of other technology work (now replacing highly trained Americans).

Never mind what Trump is saying, this is what people are hearing, this is their anger. That Trump is a buffoon and cannot hope to fix any of this is no matter, because none of the other candidates are really addressing this problem in any useful way*.

Why can’t all these Trumpies make any cogent argument? All they seem to have is “You must be for Boehner!” and stuff.
_________
*Sanders is saying it, too, but his prescriptions are worse.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/20/2016 @ 4:01 pm

the primal screams will be not long in coming,

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/03/19/ted-cruz-announces-national-security-team-including-frank-gaffney-michael-ledeen-elliott-abrams/

gaffney came up with a streamlined version of trump’s proposal, ledeen was subject to lawfare by sid vicious,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 4:01 pm

What’s going on at this blog reminds me a bit of Israel at the UN. Israel is not a pure state run by angels that never does anything wrong, but nonetheless it does not deserve more condemnation than all other UN member nations put together. You guys have better motives, I understand that you think Trump is dangerous and unpredictable and unfit for high office, and I agree with that assessment.

But the Ring you have grasped will serve only its true master. That true master is the Left, and that Ring will be wielded by Hillary Clinton, who is the only actual fascist in the race.

Her supporters will be “Shutting It Down” and she will never be held to account; her name will never even be mentioned in connection with them. The IRS will leap to do her bidding in investigating and disrupting any sort of organized opposition. The media will laud her to the skies and demonize her opponents; the executive branch will collude with activist groups as they did under Obama.

As bad as Trump may be, nothing he will be able to do will be anything like this bad.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 4:03 pm

this #green eggs and ham strategy, has little chance of success, the somelives matter people, are in support of hillary, but they also serve doc brown, in a different time and place, they would have become brigatte rossi, or baader meinhof,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 4:07 pm

better articulated then I am able,

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/03/20/donald-trump-political-establishment-elites-tea-party-bourgeois-working-class-column/82047484/

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 4:16 pm

narcisco, do you have a link to that which doesn’t come from a Trump site?

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/20/2016 @ 4:19 pm

narcisco, do you have a link to that which doesn’t come from a Trump site? (#55)

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/20/2016 @ 4:21 pm

thanks for 58, narciso.

mg (31009b) — 3/20/2016 @ 4:22 pm

you find bloomberg more trustworthy,

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-03-17/cruz-assembles-an-unlikely-team-of-foreign-policy-rivals

the left would react much as they did to team b, and the committee on the present danger,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 4:25 pm

Never mind. There are a number of articles on the Cruz national security team, all with their own axes to grind. Reuters even quotes the Southern Poverty Law Center (as a “civil rights group”).

The Washington Examiner notes that Trump has not yet released his lineup, but notes “Trump told MSNBC on Wednesday that he would serve as his own best foreign policy adviser.“

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/20/2016 @ 4:28 pm

What is the purpose of this post? To paint Trump as the wrong person here? Bullshit. Be objective and call out the stupid agitators who are disrupting a paid-for campaign rally. Wonder what the headline would read if this was a Cruz rally. Stop doing the enemy’s work.

The Emperor (e3601a) — 3/20/2016 @ 4:29 pm

eli is one of the sharper folk, as he was at the daily basilisk, but still he carries the conventional wisdom forward,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 4:29 pm

@narciso: That Bloomberg article is already teeing up for “Cruz is just as bad as Trump” and “if only the Republicans would nominate reasonable people like Bush, Romney, and McCain”. The words they are using for the views of Cruz’s advisers includes “radioactive” and links them to Trump. They are also including warnings about them from the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 4:30 pm

I guess the parallel is more to sharon, in temperament not background,
u
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/donald-trump-israel-2016-netanyahu-213748

the bell will toll eventually, they hated cruz before trump,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 4:33 pm

Why is my comment on moderation?

The Emperor (e3601a) — 3/20/2016 @ 4:35 pm

That column by Glenn Reynolds also highlights the remaining choice to the GOP elite:

Tea Party (Cruz) or the Mob (Trump).

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/20/2016 @ 4:37 pm

Yes, you will find time for the motes in the eyes of Trump’s supporters, and you may eventually find time for the beam in the eyes of Hillary and Bernie’s supporters.

And this is why Trump is doing as well as he is doing.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 3:12 pm

Seriously, Gabriel Hanna??

Dana (0ee61a) — 3/20/2016 @ 5:04 pm

Is the vote in Utah on Tuesday meaningless? Here’s an excerpt from Arron Klein’a Breitbart article, 3/20/16:

Smartmatic Group, an electronic voting firm whose worldwide headquarters is located in the United Kingdom, will be running the online balloting process in the Utah Republican Open Caucuses on Tuesday.

The chairman of Smartmatic’s board, Lord Mark Malloch-Brown, currently serves on the board of George Soros’s Open Society Foundation and has close ties to the billionaire.

The Wall Street Journal dubbed the Republican party’s online adventure on Tuesday as “one of the biggest online votes conducted so far in the U.S.” and the “largest experiment with online presidential voting since 2004, when Michigan allowed Democrats to vote in a party caucus via the Internet.”

The Journal further reported:

Utah residents will have the option of casting ballots in the Republican presidential contest using computers, tablets, and smartphones next week. …

Online “polls” will be open between 7:00 a.m. and 11 p.m. on March 22. Voters will get a receipt that will verify that their vote was recorded correctly. The state party declined to release the number of online voter registrations that it has received. …

“We expect all the jurisdictions across the U.S. to take notice and to look at this experience as something to study and, hopefully, follow,” said Antonio Mugica, founder and chief executive of Smartmatic Group, an election-equipment vendor that is running the Utah election.

ropelight (7e31c4) — 3/20/2016 @ 6:24 pm

My response to assault and battery by two large males would be to pepper spray the jerks. Then I’d call the cops and press charges.

The title of “campaign manager” does not give this thug the right to assault anyone. Sure, you can order them to leave, but keep you hands to yourself.

I have been predicting that this would descend into open violence in the streets like Europe in 1919 but I didn’t realize that Trump’s campaign manager would be initiating the violence!

WarEagle82 (5bf75f) — 3/20/2016 @ 6:31 pm

whaaaa? Mr. Trump’s campaign manager is super sweet a lot of people don’t know how he knits blankets for ebola ophans when they’re on the campaign bus but it’s true

Corey’s just a lot misunderstood I think Mr. Eagle

people need to stop hatin

happyfeet (831175) — 3/20/2016 @ 6:36 pm

@Dana:
Seriously, Gabriel Hanna??

Yep. Bernie and Hillary’s supporters punished a whole city for hosting a Trump rally and you didn’t see fit to mention it. You were too busy focusing on a guy who got punched at the Trump rally, to notice the thousands stuck on the freeway by “Shut It Down”.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 6:51 pm

it’s like wynonna earp, and her demon killing gun, sometimes syfy plumbs the depths,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 6:53 pm

ropelight, the person who religiously posts every Drudge online poll, wonders whether Utah’s electronic online poll can be trusted. It’s a good question. We’ll see if the Utah poll is reliable but the Drudge poll is not.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/20/2016 @ 6:57 pm

Seriously, Gabriel? Trumpaderos swimming in the Sanders sewer is a recommendation for Trump? A pox on both their houses, at the very least, I’d say.

nk (dbc370) — 3/20/2016 @ 6:59 pm

I believe in law and order, Gabriel. I expect the police and sheriff’s departments to handle civil disobedience. It’s unfortunate they weren’t prepared this time. Hopefully the places that host future Trump rallies will learn from recent incidents and be better prepared.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:00 pm

@nk:Trumpaderos swimming in the Sanders sewer is a recommendation for Trump?

You have me confused with someone else. I have never recommended Trump. Just saying it’s curious Dana had so much to say about a guy getting punched at a Trump rally, but nothing about what the anti-Trump protestors did, which affected far more people and is far more fascist, than anything that has ever happened at a Trump rally.

@DRJ:Hopefully the places that host future Trump rallies will learn from recent incidents and be better prepared.

They won’t, if all the attention is on the guy who gets punched at the Trump rally and not the thousands of people snarled in traffic for hours because Hillary and Bernie’s supporters blocked the highway.

For hours, the protesters – about two dozen in total – parked their cars in the middle of the road, unfurling banners reading “Dump Trump” and “Must Stop Trump,” and chanting “Trump is hate.” Traffic was backed up for miles, with drivers honking in fury.

Protesters were also chanting, “Donald Trump, shut it down, Phoenix is the people’s town.”

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:06 pm

Arpaio was wearing two hats at the Trump rally — Sheriff in charge of security and Trump supporter. He should have spent more time wearing his Sheriff’s hat.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:07 pm

Scott Baio Endorses Donald Trump: “He Speaks Like I Speak”

This is a change in his presidential endorsement, as Baio had previously come out as endorsing Scott Walker last spring.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:10 pm

Snicker.

nk (dbc370) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:11 pm

I think the blockade was covered by the media, especially the local media. That will get LE attention. They don’t want that kind of local media coverage.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:11 pm

DRJ:He should have spent more time wearing his Sheriff’s hat.

Awesome. Monday morning quarterbacking now. I guess he should have just turned hoses and dogs on them, instead of politely asking them to disperse, giving reasonable time to do so, and then towing their trucks?

Because if he HAD reacted that way I expect you’d be calling him a fascist and using THAT against Trump.

And when San Francisco and Seattle law enforcement let Bernie and Hillary’s thugs do whatever to whoever the nominee is, you will say–what?

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:11 pm

I fly with eagles, unashamed of our baldness.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:12 pm

Oh please, Gabriel. We know squirrels when we see them — Trump has been wearing them on his head for decades. “They, THE THEY!, are worse!” does not work with us. We don’t think that way.

nk (dbc370) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:15 pm

Arpaio leaves himself open to criticism when he is a fan as well as law enforcement, but my original point was that LE at future rally sites should be prepared. That is not Monday morning quaeterbacking. That is prudent judgment.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:15 pm

yes, but they react matter of factly, in fact probably approve of it, if the reverse were true, and the right was blockading a doc brown event, you’d never hear the end of it,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:17 pm

If blue cities and mayors let protesters run roughshod over citizens and businesses the way they did in Baltimore, I will criticize them, too.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:17 pm

Bernie and Hillary’s supporters punished a whole city for hosting a Trump rally and you didn’t see fit to mention it. You were too busy focusing on a guy who got punched at the Trump rally, to notice the thousands stuck on the freeway by “Shut It Down”.

Right. Shame on me for not seeing fit to write a post of which you approved. Good grief, Gabriel, I have explained to you very clearly why I didn’t include the events taking place outside of the arena. And FWIW, those events don’t change what took place inside the venue.

Dana (0ee61a) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:22 pm

I said they, six years ago, they didn’t dare to shutdown the rally in Searchlight, now they feel emboldened,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:22 pm

Did a black Trumpet beating the bejesus out of a klan-hooded goose-stepping Bernie fan make any of the newscasts?

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:24 pm

@Dana:Shame on me for not seeing fit to write a post of which you approved.

No; shame on you for straining at gnats and swallowing camels because you don’t like Trump. The real fascism is on the Left and ever has been. When the history of this election is written, it will say that brave progressives saved us from Hitler, and Republican supporters like you even agreed that that was the case.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:26 pm

Mr. Trump will forgive you Dana for he is merciful

happyfeet (831175) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:28 pm

The flag desecrator was wearing a hood? I thought it just had long hair. But, yeah, on your point, the media is well-practiced at putting the “house Negro” label on black people who stray off the plantation.

nk (dbc370) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:29 pm

#91, Tiger, come to think of it, I sure haven’t seen anything about it on TV news. But today’s a big day in the English Premier League and I’ve been busy watching excellent soccer. Maybe there’ll be time tomorrow in between election coverage. I make notes.

ropelight (7e31c4) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:31 pm

You could get your own blog, Gabriel. It’s free and it’s easy. Google “Blogger” and follow the instructions. I look forward to your first post. Just link it here.

nk (dbc370) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:32 pm

@nk:You could get your own blog, Gabriel.

Oh, are dissenting voices not welcome? Kevin M will begin to think you must be a Trump supporter if you are not careful.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:34 pm

Gabriel, they get testy in the face of dispassionate observation. They’re like a mob hungry for the blood of anyone who won’t bow down to their collective presumptions. It’s disquieting to watch commenters you once respected stoop to the tactics of guttersnipes.

ropelight (7e31c4) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:42 pm

Let me make my own stance (one more time, out of many times) very obvious: I have described Trump, above, as

an ignorant phoney, a buffoon, a guy who says whatever he thinks people want to hear…dangerous and unpredictable and unfit for high office

Call him these things; he more than deserves it. Call him a short-fingered vulgarian; he is. What he is not: a fascist or a racist. His followers are far less fascist and violent than those of Bernie and Hillary. We cannot use their weapons; those weapons only serve the Left. You will find that whoever the nominee is, he will be opposed with these weapons that you wield today. You will find that person loaded with all the sins of Trump’s followers, much as the Left continues to insist that all the racist Southerners became Republicans.

You will have no standing, at that time, to say that for Trump it was all true but for Cruz (or whoever) it’s a lie, if you have been using these tactics on someone who supposedly was on your side.

The tactics are: bogus accusations of bigotry; blaming the candidate for the faults of anyone expressing support for the candidate and demanding disavowals and apologies; pathologizing their followers as “bitter clingers” and such; making a big issue out of every little thing done in the name of the candidate and ignoring much worse done by his opponents.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:48 pm

These are the primaries, Gabriel. This is when we are supposed to disagree.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:51 pm

More squirrels. You are not dissenting. You are whining because Dana did not give you your favorite flavor of lollipop. She did not say what you wanted her to say. Ok, you say it. It’s a free internet.

nk (dbc370) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:52 pm

these tactics are dishonorable, Mr. Hanna speaks truth

happyfeet (831175) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:52 pm

Submit a guest post to Patterico that says what you think should be said, Gabriel. He will probably publish it. I think you will find that it’s not easy to write posts or to see them criticized by commenters who are sure they could do better.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:55 pm

Well, $49.95/month plus applicable taxes and fees where I’m at but you know what I mean. 😉

nk (dbc370) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:55 pm

@ropelight: You know where I don’t pop up and make myself unpleasant? All the posts talking about Trump talking out of both sides of his mouth, or being butthurt over little things, or being a crony capitalist, or befriending and befunding the Clintons, or being ignorant and ill-informed, or having short stubby fingers, or running his own businesses into the ground with only his name, which he will whore to anyone or anything for money, keeping him from the poorhouse.

Because those things are all true.

Trump has only added one thing to this race: the power of his celebrity. It has been a very mixed blessing. Because the media feel they have to cover Trump, issues are not so easy to bury with silence as they were. If Trump tomorrow were to mention the highway protest, and who was behind it, the media would have no choice but to cover what he said even while they condemned it.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:56 pm

@ropelight: You know where I don’t pop up and make myself unpleasant? All the posts talking about Trump talking out of both sides of his mouth, or being butthurt over little things, or being a crony capitalist, or befriending and befunding the Clintons, or being ignorant and ill-informed, or having short stubby fingers, or running his own businesses into the ground with only his name (which he will prostitute to anyone or anything for money) keeping him from the poorhouse.

Because those things are all true.

Trump has only added one thing to this race: the power of his celebrity. It has been a very mixed blessing. Because the media feel they have to cover Trump, issues are not so easy to bury with silence as they were. If Trump tomorrow were to mention the highway protest, and who was behind it, the media would have no choice but to cover what he said even while they condemned it.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:58 pm

@DRJ:These are the primaries, Gabriel. This is when we are supposed to disagree.

But not disagreement to the extent that the eventual nominee is too weakened to perform in the general election. Assuming the tactics and arguments of leftists, because we hate Trump, is going to result in Trump or Hillary getting elected.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:00 pm

@nk:Ok, you say it. It’s a free internet.

I did say it, and you said I should go say it elsewhere.

@DRJ:I think you will find that it’s not easy to write posts or to see them criticized by commenters who are sure they could do better.

I already know for a fact it isn’t, but what has that to do with anything? If you allow comments you must expect that some may be critical. My criticism has been civil and courteous, though I would not characterize it as mild it has certainly not been abusive.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:05 pm

I did say it, and you said I should go say it elsewhere.

That’s because I don’t know Patterico’s policy for guest posts. And I don’t think that I picked on you any worse than you picked on Dana.

nk (dbc370) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:08 pm

You criticized what Dana chose to blog about, not the substance of her post. Write your own op-ed if you don’t like someone else’s, but don’t tell them what they should have written about.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:11 pm

@nk:And I don’t think that I picked on you any worse than you picked on Dana.

I “picked on” Dana’s post; I did not pick on Dana personally, or accuse Dana of whining about a lollypop. I have not said anything bad about Dana as a person. I have said that Dana is ignoring very serious dangers to focus on relatively trivial ones, out of animus to Donald Trump (which he well deserves), and losing sight of the big picture.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:14 pm

There is a limit on how much we can criticize Trump? Honestly, Gabriel, these things are being said everywhere. You better get busy if you plan to silence everyone.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:14 pm

@DRJ:Write your own op-ed if you don’t like someone else’s, but don’t tell them what they should have written about.

What other topics should be out of bounds here?

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:16 pm

@DRJ:There is a limit on how much we can criticize Trump?

You should not tell lies about Trump that only serve the Left come November. I’ve said plenty critical about Trump.

You better get busy if you plan to silence everyone.

Funny how my commenting is being equated with a desire to shut everyone else up. I have no such desire; and lies get around the world before truth gets its pants on.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:18 pm

you note the parallelism,

http://babalublog.com/2016/03/20/obama-arrives-in-cuba-march-20-2016-shigemitsu-arrives-on-the-uss-missouri-sept-2-1945-for-similar-ceremony/

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:23 pm

After some introspection, I may not often agree with what I write or say but I will defend to the death my right to write or say it!

Colonel Haiku (0666ef) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:26 pm

First you said there is a limit on how much we can disagree. Now you say we are lying about Trump. Which is it?

As for topics that are out-of-bounds, there aren’t any. I’m asking you to write a post on whatever you like. That’s the opposite of saying something is out-of-bounds. My point is that it is not right to complain that someone wrote about Topic A when you wanted Topic B. You can talk about Topic B all you want but that doesn’t mean Dana has to.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:31 pm

corollary to instapundit’s piece,

http://donsurber.blogspot.com/2016/03/versailles-on-potomac.html?spref=tw

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:33 pm

Saying someone has lied is a serious charhe, Gabriel. You need to immediately identify the specific comments you say are lies, and why you say that.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:33 pm

You have the right to do anything I want you to do, Haiku.

nk (dbc370) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:36 pm

they are moving to black bloc tactics,

http://legalinsurrection.com/2016/03/anti-aipac-protest-turns-ugly-and-violent/

as in seattle, rome, philadelphia, et al,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:37 pm

Where are the lies, Gabriel?

DRJ (15874d) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:37 pm

Gabriel 113: What lies?

DRJ (15874d) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:39 pm

it’s a tangled noodle salad of lies!

with jicama slaw and a saucy dressing of deceit

but the truth, the truth shall set you free

advantage: Mr. The Donald

happyfeet (831175) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:43 pm

Gabriel, this is my last request. What is the basis for your comment 113 to me that says “You should not tell lies about Trump …”?

DRJ (15874d) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:46 pm

“@DRJ:These are the primaries, Gabriel. This is when we are supposed to disagree.

But not disagreement to the extent that the eventual nominee is too weakened to perform in the general election.” – Gabriel Hanna

The disarray in the party is almost exclusively caused by the GOPe’s incessant refusal to respect the wishes of the base. This situation became especially intolerable with the arrival of the lawless Obama. It is one thing to collude with the petty grifters of the Democratic Party when it came to the chump change influence pedaling we have lived with for a very long time. It is another to collude with party and a president that are destroying the country and everything we love about it.

In our disgust with Trump – and I feel plenty – it is easy to forget how we got here. Trump is the logical outcome of Boehner, McConnell and the rest. Clearly, the electorate knows this: every GOPe-shill candidate has been trounced and rightly so.

One more thing while I’m at it. Trump may be disgusting, but his isn’t a crook. Hillary, on the other hand, clearly is. I’ll take a bombastic pryck over a criminal any day of the week.

ThOR (a52560) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:49 pm

You should not tell lies about Trump that only serve the Left come November. I’ve said plenty critical about Trump.

Gabriel,

Are you insinuating that by not posting about what took place outside of the venue, that I am lying by omission??? Because that’s what it sounds like to me.

Dana (0ee61a) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:52 pm

It’s not “why”, ThOR, it’s the “Goddamnit it!” That we have sunk so low as a country that Trump is a serious contender for the Presidency.

nk (dbc370) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:55 pm

ThOR, I appreciate your comment. I think that HRC has violated a number of interesting sets of laws and rules involving national security (among other things). My guess is that she will not be charged and things will get even nastier.

That whole “rule of law” business.

But Trump? I think he is a basically dishonest con man, and the folks who were bilked at Trump University may disagree with you commentary he is not a crook.

They are both authoritarian plutocrats who don’t particularly care about the rule of law, and have a primary focus on their own self-aggrandizement.

I am disgusted with both of them.

Simon Jester (4267ce) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:57 pm

Nk, I spent a long time studying Huey Long for an alternate history novel I wanted to write. I was amazed at how easily smart people were bilked and conned by that shifty grifter, who was innately corrupt, dangerous, and authoritarian.

So here we are again. But without the polish and erudition of Huey Long (sarcasm).

Simon Jester (4267ce) — 3/20/2016 @ 8:59 pm

Holy cow, I can’t go wash the dishes? Everyone do bear in mind that commenting might not be done in real time…

@DRJ, Dana: I am not accusing either of you specifically lying. “You” was meant as an impersonal pronoun, “one should not” would have been more clear (but sounds a bit stuck up).

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 9:01 pm

about 30 years ago, the left effectively began proscribing conservative speakers, off college campi, jeane kirkpatrick was among the first, because they were controversial, meanwhile allowing every marxist insurrectionist free rain, this was the prelude to the anti western campaign that jesse jackson let slip out at stanford in 1988, they took over the informationsphere, at the universities, which feed into the media,
both official news and cultural, the internet provided some respite, initially in the golden age of blogging, but then soros birthed the journolist through the same channels, I mentioned earlier, they fabricated every ‘scandal’ and covered up any impropriety, we thought the battle was won in 2004, but as you see with ‘Truth’ that was just a truce,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 9:02 pm

“Lying” is a word that is often used without caution. It is the kind of accusation that should only be leveled when appropriate, in my opinion.

It seems our coarse culture uses it to express upset or disagreement, instead of the actual meaning: intentional deceit.

Even good people fall into that trap, again because of our coarse culture.

Simon Jester (4267ce) — 3/20/2016 @ 9:04 pm

Is Trump nationalizing corporationsm or giving away government funds, then no your template is misplaced, the parallel is closer to Hearst in his earlier era, Swanberg had a long tome on him, that Welles probably went to town on, just like Sherman did with Ailes, his supra gawker mutterings are no taken for truth,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 9:09 pm

@Dana:Because that’s what it sounds like to me.

No, what I’m criticizing is this. The operations that target Trump’s rallies, and block highways and such, they are getting away with it because the general sense is that Trump somehow has provoked it. It’s news about Trump, it’s not news about how the progressive street fighters are growing bolder ever since Occupy Wall Street.

These operations are going to seamlessly roll over and target Cruz. Everything said about Trump, will be said about Cruz. Everything ascribed to Trump voters will be ascribed to Cruz voters, it will be claimed they are the very same people.

The same day as the highway protest, thousands took to the streets and protested Trump for being racist, anti-gay, full of hate, etc. All this will be done to Cruz.

The media has been reluctant to cover these organized protests because they sympathize with them. But they HAVE to cover Trump (they feel), he’s a celebrity. So focusing on the protestors who sneak into Trump’s rallies, and how Trump handles them, is giving the media the narrative they want, rather than the real one.

And that is going to be used against Cruz in November. If enough people focused on the anti-Trump protestors, their methods, tactics and organization, and who is funding them, it could get out into the media because they cover Trump and they can’t completely control the narrative, he’s a celebrity and people have their own ideas about him. But if Trump is gone, the media will have total control of the narrative again, because Cruz is obscure.

What is happening at Trump’s rallies is orders of magnitude less bad than what the anti-Trump protestors are getting away with, and I think your focus on Trump as the problem is helping them get away with it.

Not because you are a bad person or anything. I just think you’re thinking about how to keep Trump out of the Republican nomination at the expense of how to keep Hillary out of the White House.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 9:13 pm

continued, the journolist birthed the plame matter, first ackerman, which led to wilson, they shaped the rise of obama, by hiding cuban and libyan regime enabler jeremiah wright’s tracks, and at the moment, when there was a slim chance of some opposition, that same outfit, with ben smith now at buzzfeed, trailed all matter of slander, beldar unraveled part of this,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 9:13 pm

what seems patently obvious to me, is cruz is ‘being polarized and isolated’ from practically any base of support, the sea island conference, was exhibit A, explaining the senators who should have endorsed him but didn’t it, beck is the other part of the equation, just handing more templates for theocracy,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 9:21 pm

Whenever possible use the rhetorical first person or third person instead of the second person. Example: “We will not impress anyone with our fancy houses and expensive cars” or “Who do they think they are with their …” will be received better than “You will not impress anyone with your …”. — nk’s Tips For Rabble-Rousing (Limited Edition)

nk (dbc370) — 3/20/2016 @ 9:39 pm

Didn’t Huey Long get assassinated by an FDR supporter?
Reading from his wiki we find out he eliminated literacy tests and poll taxes that the Democrats had used since the Klu Klux Klan days to block blacks, Republicans, and women, from voting.

It sounds like this guy was declared persona non grata by the party. Then his character was assassinated as well.
By the same people who wrote Warren (less than 2% unemployment) Harding up as the worst president ever.

It’s just that historians from that era viewed the world through a cracked prism. The story tellers character has to be taken into account first.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/20/2016 @ 9:41 pm

No; shame on you for straining at gnats and swallowing camels because you don’t like Trump. The real fascism is on the Left and ever has been. When the history of this election is written, it will say that brave progressives saved us from Hitler, and Republican supporters like you even agreed that that was the case.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 7:26 pm

Sounds like you expect history to record that Trump was defeated.

“As for straining at gnats and swallowing camels because you don’t like Trump,” you could very well have said that same thing when the Prima Donald rose in the polls with “Bush” or “the GOP Establishment” replacing “Trump.”
In the summer and autumn of 2015, people ate up a dish of Trump Hump when he touted his net worth, his employment of thousands over the decades, and his Ivy League education as reason why you should trust someone who had never had a second of experience working in any government with the mantle of Commander-in-Chief. Regarding that: Being in the best shape of anyone who would ever be President at the age of 69, as his personal doctor now insists, wasn’t the case in 1968 when Uncle Sam wanted him. So while Trump didn’t go to Vietnam, other people like John McCain did. You remember McCain — Trump said he wasn’t a war hero because he was captured. As for Jeb Bush, Trump reminded all of us that we wouldn’t want to trust someone who was so “low energy.” Look! People are falling asleep at his rallies! And he’s speaking Spanish to someone who asked him a question in Spanish! HOW DARE HE!

My first choice was ALWAYS Scott Walker, and my second Ted Cruz. I didn’t want a third Bush either. So I was initially amused at what I thought would be the same Trumplicity stunt of a campaign pulled in 2011 (that was aborted after he was caught dropping an f-bomb in front of a women’s group). And I was pleased that the killing of a innocent bystander here in downtown San Francisco brought to life what he said about illegal immigrant criminals coming to sanctuary cities to ply their trades. What woke me the hell up was when Frank Luntz — whose questions had evoked the McCain insult — conducted a focus group that broke his meter and buckled his knees; there was NOTHING that Trump could possibly say that would shake their determination that he was the man.

This meant that significant numbers of people decided that even if Trump turned out to be “the worst person in the world,” even if he “[stood] in the middle of Fifth Avenue and [shot] somebody,” people would still vote for him without blinking. It’s one thing if the people tell you such a thing about themselves; it’s another when the subject of adoration says that of his worshipers, utterly unafraid they will contradict him.

Of all the things I’ve watched U.S. Presidents do in a life that spans six decades, I’ve never seen anyone suggest IN PUBLIC that his own support would not waver in the event he did something undeniably evil while he was still a candidate. That’s the sort of thing that you would expect out of the mouth of Fidel Castro, or Hugo Chavez, or Kim Jong-Un. Not someone who likes to be compared to Ronald Reagan. Combine that with his long history of bullying behavior as a private citizen, his apparent ignorance of and/or disdain for Constitutional checks of Presidential power (as long as its his power), and you have the very best case in recent history for suggesting a GOP candidate is not just objectionable, but perhaps downright dangerous.

Instead of asking why people on the right are not focusing on “real fascism on the left,” maybe the question you should be asking yourself is why you also aren’t fighting potential fascism from the right tooth and nail.

L.N. Smithee (0c5978) — 3/20/2016 @ 9:49 pm

compared to leander perez or gerald l k smith, or father coughlin, he was a boy scout, there was isolationist tone to him, but that was true after the depression, also after certain documents re the previous war, were leaked to the nye committee, at the time the relevant staffer was an alger hiss,
this was before he joined the state department,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 10:03 pm

Not because you are a bad person or anything. I just think you’re thinking about how to keep Trump out of the Republican nomination at the expense of how to keep Hillary out of the White House.

Trump is the one who is going to put her there, Gabriel Hanna.

Patterico (b3ba2e) — 3/20/2016 @ 10:07 pm

there’s no fate, but what we make,

https://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2016/03/20/the-thin-blue-line/

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 10:14 pm

I’ve had a lifetime full of Clinton corruption. Enough already.

Trump may be corrupt, but at least he’ll be a different flavor of corrupt.

Perhaps more importantly, life is full of business deals that go south, leaving people holding the bag. It’s how capitalism works. To attribute criminal intent to Trump just because his business dealings go south makes about as much sense now as it made back when Truman ran against Dewey and Truman was the object of like allegations. It is a mis-judgement of the highest order.

I think far to many of us are allowing our personal dislike for the buffoonish Trump to cloud our judgment. Now is not the time. There’s a reason Nixon was famous for his “not a crook” line, and a good reason. Crook is the bottom line. I don’t want to keep Hillary out of the White House because I’ll undoubtedly loathe her Supreme Court nominations. I want her out because crook is worse than foolish ideologue (Obama) or pandering oaf (Trump), or, even, complete idiot (Kasich).

ThOR (a52560) — 3/20/2016 @ 10:16 pm

@Patterico:Trump is the one who is going to put her there, Gabriel Hanna.

It could very well be that Cruz puts her there too. Is Cruz’s advantages with the Republican base, such as they are, enough to offset Trump’s advantage with Democrat voters? Or will those Democrat voters all be bored with the election by then? I don’t think anyone knows.

But I’m not a Trump supporter.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 10:16 pm

again my pet peeve about nixon, how was he a crook, did he embezzle funds, like clinton’s did, no he impounded some but that was a legitimate authority, was there a corrupt election, again no those funds were legally obtained, donald segretti’s little pranks were not anything significant, the dems made everything he said and did,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 10:26 pm

These operations are going to seamlessly roll over and target Cruz. Everything said about Trump, will be said about Cruz. Everything ascribed to Trump voters will be ascribed to Cruz voters, it will be claimed they are the very same people.

It seems you’re counting on the ability of the mainstream media to fool people into thinking a man who has a dialogue with his critics is the same as the guy who encourages his fans to beat the hell out of his, and that people are too dumb to know the difference.

The same day as the highway protest, thousands took to the streets and protested Trump for being racist, anti-gay, full of hate, etc. All this will be done to Cruz…

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 9:13 pm

This is how Rush Limbaugh and Mark Levin excused their soft-pedaling of Trump months back. ‘The [true] stuff they say about Trump is the same [false] stuff they would be saying about Cruz!’ Meanwhile, Trump is lying his billion-dollar derriere off about Cruz, making certain that if he should ever threaten to overtake his electoral lead, there is plenty of poison in the waters to make sure he can’t gain traction.

L.N. Smithee (0c5978) — 3/20/2016 @ 10:35 pm

But I’m not a Trump supporter.

Gabriel Hanna (54dfae) — 3/20/2016 @ 10:16 pm

Can you explain why not?

L.N. Smithee (0c5978) — 3/20/2016 @ 10:36 pm

Patterico: Please review my comment currently in moderation (#140)

L.N. Smithee (0c5978) — 3/20/2016 @ 10:37 pm

they will use other tactics, ala attacks on goldwater, w, and other figures,

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/18/islamophobia-ted-cruz-national-security-advisor-frank-gaffney

narciso (732bc0) — 3/20/2016 @ 10:51 pm

Gabriel: Never mind my question asking why you don’t support Trump — a comment you’ve posted above has explained it sufficiently. I didn’t see it because I was writing my own long comment, which is still in moderation.

I see in you and others here a lot of fear of the way the MSM is covering the election, because they’re clearing the way for Hillary. This is ONLY a problem because people with a choice of several decent choices have made the mistake of supporting someone so thoroughly loathsome to many people that they might prefer a candidate facing indictment for a felony. All that Republican primary voters had to do was put up a serious, qualified person against the weakest set Democratic contenders since 1984, and they decided they couldn’t wait one more minute to burn the whole damned party down.

L.N. Smithee (0c5978) — 3/20/2016 @ 11:04 pm

That we have sunk so low as a country that Trump is a serious contender for the Presidency.

We fell far lower than that back in November 2008 when we put into office a person who embraced the philosophy of “goddamn America.” Of course, that individual may claim his former minister/preacher was the one who espoused such a theology, but — after 20 years of sitting in the pews and listening to (and presumably approving of) that preacher — we all know better.

Trump is an extremely imperfect candidate, but his motto of “make America great again” is at least a tad bit better than the mantra of “goddamn America”*.
___________________

* “…your chickens are coming home to roost!”

Mark (a6a46e) — 3/20/2016 @ 11:38 pm

If horrible Hillary wins in November — assuming all the Republican candidate don’t suddenly vanish in thin air well before the year is over and she’s facing only someone from the Green Party or the Libertarian Party — that will say a lot more about the mindset of the American electorate than anything about the major-party candidate she’s running against. It will say, people of America, give a warm, hearty welcome to the people of Argentina. Next up: give a big shout out to the people of Venezuela!

Mark (a6a46e) — 3/20/2016 @ 11:49 pm

We have bigger problems than Donald.
Impeach Ryan now.
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/03/paul_ryans_terrible_horrible_very_bad_budget_.html

mg (31009b) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:41 am

Eff it all, nk, I’m gonna jump for trump🐗

Colonel Haiku (c22a91) — 3/21/2016 @ 3:13 am

FOX NEWS just reported on Utah’s new on-line voting system and failed to mention that Lord Malloch-Brown, chairman of Smartmatic Group’s board, the UK electronic balloting company running the online portion of Tuesday’s GOP primary election, sits on the Board of Directors of George Soros’s Open Society Foundation and has close ties to the billionaire.

See my comment at #70 above.

ropelight (23fda1) — 3/21/2016 @ 6:27 am

Closer than Trump’s? That’s how you get government contracts isn’t it? By rubbing elbows with and giving money to people of all political stripes? Nobody knows this better than Trump.

nk (dbc370) — 3/21/2016 @ 6:31 am

my goodness paul ryan is quite the spendy little slut isn’t he

happyfeet (831175) — 3/21/2016 @ 6:46 am

Malloch brown a generation ago, ran Vargas looses quixotic campaign in peru, that led to fujimori, the strongman.

narciso (732bc0) — 3/21/2016 @ 7:01 am

Oh, somebody knows it better than Trump. That somebody is Obama. He’s in Kooba “setting up free trade between our two countries”. If by free trade he means setting up American millionaires and billionaires with sugar and cigar companies, professional ball club owners with the next round of multi-millionaire baseball players (the jobs Americans won’t take apparently), and don’t forget his rich pals in energy, hotels and casinos. Meanwhile not one word about political prisoners, freedom of speech or religion or even a glimmer of a beginning for a small middle class business class. So now they have a new poster child:

http://www.americanthinker.com/images/bucket/2016-03/196241_5_.jpg

Rev. Hoagie ™ (e4fcd6) — 3/21/2016 @ 7:06 am

Again, we can at least thank Trump for exposing the unbridgeable divide between the nationalists and the capitalists who previously called the Republican Party their home.

Leviticus (efada1) — 3/21/2016 @ 7:24 am

(And then lament the fact that there turned out to be more nationalists than capitalists).

Leviticus (efada1) — 3/21/2016 @ 7:24 am

What’s good for General Motors is good for America, Leviticus.

nk (dbc370) — 3/21/2016 @ 7:32 am

We fell far lower than that back in November 2008 when we put into office a person who embraced the philosophy of “goddamn America.” Of course, that individual may claim his former minister/preacher was the one who espoused such a theology, but — after 20 years of sitting in the pews and listening to (and presumably approving of) that preacher — we all know better.Trump is an extremely imperfect candidate, but his motto of “make America great again” is at least a tad bit better than the mantra of “goddamn America”*.

Mark (a6a46e) — 3/20/2016 @ 11:38 pm

Wrong. Here’s why.

Obama had this in his favor: Despite his history of associating with anti-American radicals, he was well-spoken, had an impressive educational pedigree, and had honed a image (false as it turned out to be) as a consensus-builder on the order of Lincoln. To his great advantage was the fact that awareness of Obama in the public consciousness only went back to 2004, when he made his grand entrance as keynote speaker at the Democratic Convention. On the other hand, we’ve known for decades that Donald Trump is a snake, and a left-leaning snake at that. While people were literally begging Obama to run for the White House, people rightfully laughed themselves silly that Trump thought he was qualified. Then he said “I’m gonna build a wall” and people lost their common sense.

Too many people are coming to peace with the idea that maybe Trump’s pen and phone won’t be as bad as Obama’s was or Hillary’s could be. It should be a non-starter.

L.N. Smithee (0c5978) — 3/21/2016 @ 7:42 am

He’s in Kooba “setting up free trade between our two countries”… Meanwhile not one word about political prisoners, freedom of speech or religion or even a glimmer of a beginning for a small middle class business class.

Presumably because he’s a capitalist, not a nationalist. Sort of like a George Soros, a money-grubbing champagne socialist, cross-bred with a limousine liberal.

You gotta love noble, compassionate people like that.

Mark (a6a46e) — 3/21/2016 @ 7:46 am

Despite his history of associating with anti-American radicals

And other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?

Mark (a6a46e) — 3/21/2016 @ 7:47 am

the irony is crunchy with milk,

http://babalublog.com/2016/03/20/some-observations-on-president-obamas-upcoming-trip-to-cuba/

the press hide the truth, when they don’t make it up entirely,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/21/2016 @ 7:55 am

UPDATE: According to this report by John Fund, security inside a venue like the one where the Trump rally was held is the responsibility of the organizer:

My brother Robert was on the Tucson police force for 30 years, and he told me today that at a private arena such as the one Trump spoke at the responsibility for security INSIDE the arena is left to the organizer, not the local police. A currently serving police officer who attended the rally and is a Trump supporter told me that he viewed the private security Trump had there as the ones who were “lax.” He said that hiring off-duty cops is expensive at $30-plus an hour, and many private events don’t hire any, or only a couple. “The security I saw at the rally were unprofessional and looked like rent-a-cops,” he told me. “It is insulting of Donald Trump to blame the police for his rally problems and we clearly were not.”

Dana (0ee61a) — 3/21/2016 @ 8:05 am

It’s interesting that Trump is doing better in the swing states with Reagan Democrats but not as well in conservative states like Utah and Texas.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/21/2016 @ 8:12 am

Maybe Trump wants to have problems at his rallies. He doesn’t have to talk as much or have as much content.

Maybe he also wants to blame the police. It’s those New York values.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/21/2016 @ 8:14 am

I dunno. That first video, where Lewandowski grabs madras shirt by the color, madras shirt had just put his hands on a little girl shoving her to the side. I’d call that 100% justifiable.

In the second video, punching out somebody for desecrating the flag may be morally justifiable, but I suspect the real reason was that the hippie was burning a picture of Trump.

nk (dbc370) — 3/21/2016 @ 8:22 am

“It’s interesting that Trump is doing better in the swing states with Reagan Democrats but not as well in conservative states like Utah and Texas.” – DRJ

Agreed.

But I’ve been reading it as an east/west split. Eastern voters, including South-easterners, seem to like him. West of the Mississippi, his shtick doesn’t play so well. Cruz comes across like a westerner, as do most Texans.

In Idaho, Trump’s best county was Blaine, which is where Sun Valley is located and is home to a lot of displaced easterners and a limited farmer and/or Mormon population. Some of Trump’s worst counties were in the heavily Mormon southeast.

ThOR (a52560) — 3/21/2016 @ 8:28 am

Here’s another thought. Huckabee may be a bible thumping social conservative, but there is nothing particularly conservative about his other views. He thinks God’s work should be done through big government. Cruz takes a much different position and one that appears to be disfavored among a great many evangelicals. My reflex has been to lump together all evangelicals, which I now think is wrong.

And related to my comment, above, let us not forget that westerners of previous generations moved west to get out from under the heal of government and live a free and unfettered life. These westerners are self-selected libertarians who voted with their feet for small government. This is particularly true of the Mormons, who were persecuted in the east and fled to the relative safety of the west.

ThOR (a52560) — 3/21/2016 @ 8:37 am

From my perspective, the worst thing about California, where I live, is all the easterners who have moved here (Boxer is from NY; Pelosi from Baltimore; Pete Stark is from Wisconsin).

ThOR (a52560) — 3/21/2016 @ 8:50 am

yes, the seed pods have sprouted over a generation, the hardier folk moved to arizona and utah,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/21/2016 @ 8:52 am

ThOR,

Interesting thoughts. Very interesting.

Supporting and consolidating your theories, Dallas is full of big government religious types and it’s also “where the East begins.”

DRJ (15874d) — 3/21/2016 @ 8:55 am

The GOP establishment has decided to accept Trump (and it will happen at a big law firm’s office, no less) because it likes Trump better than Cruz. That says all we need to know about Trump and his malleable goals/values.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/21/2016 @ 9:26 am

They say Arkansas Sen Tom Cotton will be there, too. That supports ThOR’s theory.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/21/2016 @ 9:28 am

Trump: big big tent – bienvenidos!

Cruz: highly-selective butt-snuffling niche candidate

advantage: Mr. The Donald

happyfeet (831175) — 3/21/2016 @ 9:36 am

OT?

Real-time manipulation of video. Check it in action

felipe (b5e0f4) — 3/21/2016 @ 9:47 am

Despite his history of associating with anti-American radicals

And other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?

Mark (a6a46e) — 3/21/2016 @ 7:47 am

NEWS FLASH: Tyranny under the banner of patriotism is still tyranny. IMHO, Trump has given us more reason to believe he will be as much a tyrant as Obama has been than not. You’re willing to accept that. I’m not.

L.N. Smithee (1ed226) — 3/21/2016 @ 10:08 am

Ted Cruz — baseless birther theories.
Donna Trump — equally baseless video of him in a French maid outfit on all fours getting whipped by a dominatrix in a Slovenian brothel.
Advantage — Hillary.

It could happen. Trumpaholics talk about the dirty tricks Obama used to get elected as though they can only be used against Cruz. They will be used against Der Donald too.

nk (dbc370) — 3/21/2016 @ 10:08 am

Jimmy Carter is but one of many who was quick to identify Trump’s malleability. Such shape-shifting is often necessary when a developer want to pass muster in urban milieus – it’s just one of his many talents. Carter’s words should come as no surprise.

Perhaps the thing that most surprises me about Trump supporters is their refusal to believe their own eyes and ears when it comes to Trumps lack of core beliefs. They believe what they want to believe, projecting their own views on him. It seems particularly odd because this sort of projection is what led so many Republicans to support Obama.

Maybe not, though. I’ve read that rural conservatives constitute particularly easy mark for confidence men because of their willingness to trust others, which creates an ongoing problem for rural police/prosecutors. Here, by the way, I’m talking about true criminal grifting and not using it as a political metaphor.

ThOR (a52560) — 3/21/2016 @ 10:17 am

I don’t think the birther thing has much traction, you have way too much imagination, nk, also carla bruni,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/21/2016 @ 10:23 am

as opposed to whom, exactly, folks in westwood, or the upper east side of brooklyn?

narciso (732bc0) — 3/21/2016 @ 10:24 am

Bill Richardson shows off his big ginormous brain

“Putin is up to something. I don’t know what it is. I don’t trust him. We shouldn’t trust him,” Richardson said. “I do think it’s an economic reason. The Russian economy is dependent a good part of it on oil prices. Maybe Putin is saying ‘I’m getting out of Syria because it’s a big financial burden, and I have to take care of my people in Russia because of oil prices doubling.’”

failmerica lol

happyfeet (831175) — 3/21/2016 @ 10:33 am

someone remind him, the russians are still bombing syria,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/21/2016 @ 10:44 am

Perhaps the thing that most surprises me about Trump supporters is their refusal to believe their own eyes and ears when it comes to Trumps lack of core beliefs. They believe what they want to believe, projecting their own views on him. It seems particularly odd because this sort of projection is what led so many Republicans to support Obama.

ThOR (a52560) — 3/21/2016 @ 10:17 am

This is the most disappointing thing of all, in my view. It may be that all the disgust at the hero worship of Obama was because it was Obama, and not “our” messiah.

L.N. Smithee (1ed226) — 3/21/2016 @ 10:46 am

Kevin M will begin to think you must be a Trump supporter if you are not careful.

Never one to pass up a cheap shot, eh, Gabe?

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/21/2016 @ 11:14 am

It could very well be that Cruz puts her there too. Is Cruz’s advantages with the Republican base, such as they are, enough to offset Trump’s advantage with Democrat voters? Or will those Democrat voters all be bored with the election by then? I don’t think anyone knows.

Trump has hit on an issue that attracts Dems. It isn’t the border Wall actually. It’s the lack of jobs. I’m not even sure that Trump knows the issue he’s hit on — immigration (illegal + legal + H-1B) and outsourcing combined — that have removed whole sectors of employment that the non-college-bound relied upon (and now, with H-1B, engineers and technical folks, too).

And they are pissed.

Cruz has started to address this, with H-1B and illegal immigration, but he needs to make the case that his fiscal plan will cause at least some outsourced jobs to return home and/or new foreign investment to occur. Trump is correct to point out that we have Japanese and Euro car plants in the South because Reagan and Bush make a stink about it. More stink needed, this time with people like Apple and Samsung.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/21/2016 @ 11:23 am

Putin is up to something. I don’t know what it is

Maybe it’s a pivot to Asia.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/21/2016 @ 11:25 am

among other details, the hashtag misspells gente,

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/03/lead-activist-who-shut-down-hwy-to-trump-rally-is-soros-fellow-from-new-orleans/

narciso (732bc0) — 3/21/2016 @ 11:32 am

some interesting ironies, therein,

http://rightwingnews.com/top-news/breaking-trump-reveals-foreign-policy-team/

caci was one of the outfits, involved in abu ghraib, schmitz, was forced out because he didn’t
blackball blackwater, as state ig,

narciso (732bc0) — 3/21/2016 @ 11:36 am

drama begets drama

jrt for Cruz (bc7456) — 3/21/2016 @ 11:43 am

@Kevin M:Never one to pass up a cheap shot, eh, Gabe?

Didn’t you say “Some people are keen to censor, some are not. The correlations are obvious though.”

And who, in this thread, in this community, is keen to censor?

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 3/21/2016 @ 11:46 am

his motto of “make America great again” is at least a tad bit better than the mantra of “goddamn America”*.

That’s pretty dishonest. Obama’s motto was Hope and Change. Hope to make America great again.

Trump’s motto is just as vague and has the same basic message. How is Hope going to work? How are we going to make America great again? Trump and Obama’s fans both assume their own views onto the blank slate candidates.

Trump’s treatment of our veterans is at least as bad as Obama sitting in a pew and hearing a preacher bash the country. Most of us have heard a professor or speaker criticize the USA harshly. That’s a basic civil right. But Trump actually acted against our veterans because he considers them undesirable.

How is it that the information age has brought about such widespread gullibility?

Dustin (2a8be7) — 3/21/2016 @ 11:51 am

Also, Sinclair Lewis’ character was not a free-market guy at all — he was an out-and-out fascist. You could call the “right” or you could call that “left” — it’s the point where the two sides merge at the Statist end of things.

There is no point where the two sides merge. Fascism is and has always been of the left. Mussolini was one of Europe’s leading Marxist intellectuals until WW1, and fascism is a Marxist heresy.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 11:51 am

We can keep two ideas in our head at the same time. That is, (1) these are leftwing thugs and agitators deliberately trying to cause a reaction or shut down ideas they don’t like (much like the campus radicals) and (2) Trump has exercised poor, at best, judgment in not trying to calm things down but, instead, giving a wink and a nod.

He’s done more than that. He’s repeatedly egged his supporters on to violence. That’s on him, not on the moveon and BLM thugs who oppose him.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 11:54 am

Hmm. Just a thought.

It Can’t Happen Here

Yes, buzzsawmonkey put me on to this one about a year ago. I stil have his copy of the book, which I need to return.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 11:55 am

That is correct, (1) should not excuse (2).

But why does that justify Dana’s post talking only about (2) to the exclusion of (1)? Not one word from Dana on the blocking of the freeway.

Because we already know what sort of people moveon and BLM are. They have no fans here. And the post is about what happened at the rallies, not on the highway.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 11:57 am

You’re the censor here, Mr. Hanna. Look at your comment 107. You don’t want people to talk about subjects that hurt Trump because he might be the nominee. In other words, speak freely but not too freely. That’s censorship, and the fact that you don’t see yourself as a censor is enlightening.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:00 pm

There is not one word about about a lot of things in a lot of posts, Mr. Hanna. Write a political encyclopedia according to Gabriel Hanna and post it online if you want but it’s the blogger’s prerogative what to write about, not yours.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:02 pm

By the way, choosing what to write about and not write about is not censorship. Telling you to write your own blog is not censorship because you are free to write what you want. But telling us what we cannot say because it might hurt Trump is censorship.

DRJ (15874d) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:05 pm

Look Trump can ratchet this down a lot if he wanted to. Use humor, tell his people that they’re better than these thugs, make fun of himself or the protester

Protesters are not thugs. There is a huge difference. The person who was punched in the face was not harming anyone. He was engaging in his traditional and first amendment right to heckle; once his permission to remain on the premises had been revoked he was under a duty to leave, but had every right to continue to express his opinion on his way out.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:11 pm

mr. trump is sensitive you can’t just be mean to him for no good reason

he’s got a big heart – big as the sky!

when you hurt he hurts

and when you cry he cries

he’s more than a best friend

he’s like an angel

happyfeet (831175) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:12 pm

those who are the real thugs here; the “protestors” invading rallies, blocking roads, etc.

Blocking roads is thuggery. Peacefully “invading” rallies is not. Heckling at political rallies is a long-standing democratic tradition, and it is every person’s right to do so. The only recourse the rally’s operator has is to ask the person to leave.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:13 pm

So, Cruz announces a foreign policy team with wide-ranging beliefs and inherent contradictions. The press attacks it for containing schools of thought it doesn’t like (but fails to mention it contains diametrically opposite folks).

Trump announces a few names and the press mostly yawns.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:18 pm

Let’s suppose that Trump fizzles out and we’re left with Ted Cruz.

When Cruz’s followers are called racist and authoritarians, as Romney’s were and McCain’s were and Bush’s were;

The difference is that it won’t be true of Cruz’s followers, as it wasn’t of Romney’s and McCain’s, but it is true of Trump’s, and of Trump himself.

When Cruz’s rallies are infiltrated by protesters who are there to “Shut It Down”;

When that happens I expect there to be no violence against them, unless they engage in violence.

When Hillary and Bernie are not held to account for anything their followers do, and Cruz is held responsible for anything and everything done by anyone who claims to support him, and blamed for not doing enough to rein it in;

That will happen regardless of what we say or don’t say about Trump. Nothing we say now can change it.

What will you have to say then? That you agreed with these tactics when Trump was the victim but now that it’s Cruz it’s not okay?

They are not the same “tactics”, because in this instance the charge is true. There is no charge that is categorically unacceptable; the question must always be “is it true”?

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:24 pm

“Trump announces a few names and the press mostly yawns.”

– Kevin M

It’s because the press knows that what Trump says has absolutely no bearing on what Trump does.

Leviticus (efada1) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:26 pm

a lot of what you guys say about Mr. Trump is just flat out disrepectful

happyfeet (831175) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:27 pm

*disrespectful* i mean

happyfeet (831175) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:27 pm

Protesters are not thugs. There is a huge difference.

I’m not referring to people expressing opposition to Trump at a rally; I’m talking about organized attempts to use a type of mob “heckler’s veto” to completely shut down the speech or rally.

There are groups who say their goal is to stop Trump from speaking. Period. They’re not attending a rally to express opposition to Trump – which is fine – but to stop him from speaking – which is not.

It’s the latter that I call thugs.

SteveMG (6f6dc7) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:27 pm

that is the skillfull steering of John ‘Splunge’ Weaver, the one who enabled the ‘adultery’ libel against McCain, and subsequently signed onto the SS Huntsman,

While the specific charge against McCain was without foundation, it’s beyond question that he slept with his current wife while still married to his first wife.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:28 pm

“a lot of what you guys say about Mr. Trump is just flat out disrespectful.”

– happyfeet

Indulge us. With our powers combined we can make sweet, sweet, disrespectful music.

Leviticus (efada1) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:30 pm

I can tell the difference between overt racism and its absence, but the media, at the behest of the Left, will claim that Cruz is overtly racist just as they did every other Republican candidate in my lifetime.

And they will be lying. This time they’re telling the truth. The difference matters.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:33 pm

the second Mr. Trump steps out of line I’m a savage him mercilessly Mr. L

happyfeet (831175) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:37 pm

Israel is not a pure state run by angels that never does anything wrong, but nonetheless it does not deserve more condemnation than all other UN member nations put together.

Bad analogy. Israel is certainly not a pure state run by angels that never does anything wrong. But of all the things its enemies condemn it for, it has done precisely none of them. None of the international criticism of Israel has been justified. The criticism it deserves it never gets, because those are things its critics agree with.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:41 pm

Trump our next president wins arizona! thanks to illegals road block.

patter-ee-kow sucks cruz (ed896f) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:42 pm

“the second Mr. Trump steps out of line I’m a savage him mercilessly Mr. L”

– happyfeet

May your savagery be our bellwether.

Leviticus (efada1) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:49 pm

You should not tell lies about Trump that only serve the Left come November.

You shouldn’t tell lies about Trump even if they won’t serve the left. You shouldn’t even tell lies about 0bama, Clinton, or Sanders. But these aren’t lies.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:56 pm

@DRJ:You’re the censor here, Mr. Hanna. Look at your comment 107. You don’t want people to talk about subjects that hurt Trump because he might be the nominee.

I’m calling for sense and discretion and judgment, not bannination or commenting policies.

That’s censorship

No it’s not.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 3/21/2016 @ 12:58 pm

canaduh turd crud is a sociopath like nixon without nixon’s “charm”!

patter-ee-kow sucks cruz (ed896f) — 3/21/2016 @ 1:02 pm

@DRJ: Telling you to write your own blog is not censorship because you are free to write what you want.

You can;t go two sentences without contradicting yourself. No, telling me to go write my own blog is not censorship: it is telling me that my comments are not welcome here (and it’s only one person saying that, a person with no more ability to ban people than I have). The censorship is when a penalty or a policy is applied to speech, and that comes in here:

That’s because I don’t know Patterico’s policy for guest posts.

nk says he thinks I should go get my own blog, not just because he doesn’t want to read what I write, but because he thinks there is or should be a policy that forbids me to say those things here.

And here is where you contradict yourself in teh very next sentence:

But telling us what we cannot say because it might hurt Trump is censorship.

No, it isn’t. I have no power to forbid anyone here to comment. I have not called on the host to censor anyone’s comments or ban the commenter or institute any sort of policy for what comments are allowed.

Not only that, I have never done so, on any topic–and more than once regular commenters here have called for me to be censored here. I can quote some names, if you would like.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 3/21/2016 @ 1:05 pm

@Milhouse:But of all the things its enemies condemn it for, it has done precisely none of them. None of the international criticism of Israel has been justified.

That is not true, I am afraid. I think that Israel’s behavior is much better than that of its neighbors, much better than those nations that make a habit of condemning Israel, and arguably better than America’s, but there have been human rights abuses of which Israel is guilty.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 3/21/2016 @ 1:07 pm

I can’t tell if 222 & 223 are engaging in oral sex or what?

patter-ee-kow sucks cruz (ed896f) — 3/21/2016 @ 1:09 pm

@Milhouse:The difference is that it won’t be true of Cruz’s followers, as it wasn’t of Romney’s and McCain’s, but it is true of Trump’s, and of Trump himself.

What’s your evidence? I sure hope it’s better than the David Duke disavowal, or the retweet of a sentence that Mussolini once quoted.

In order to say that Trump is a racist/fascist, and that his followers are, you are having to use the logic and arguments of the left, which we recognize as bogus when applied to someone we approve of.

That is what is going wrong. You’re judging Trump by SJW standards. Once you’ve given in and said those standards are valid, you’ve lost your standing to combat them when applied to Cruz or the others.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 3/21/2016 @ 1:12 pm

Help help, I’m being repressed! Come see the violence inherent in the system!

Leviticus channeling Gabriel Hanna (efada1) — 3/21/2016 @ 1:17 pm

@Leviticus:Help help, I’m being repressed! Come see the violence inherent in the system!

Pointing and hooting is certainly easier, and more fun, than taking a position and supporting it with argument.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 3/21/2016 @ 1:21 pm

Gabriel Hanna throws a hissy fit about motes, beams, gnats, and camels (oh my!) and then adopts an air of offended sensibility when it is suggested that he has the power to supplement what Dana talks about in blog posts with blog posts of his own. Somehow he equates this suggestion with “censorship.” Is this where we (being of the Right, and not the dreaded Left) call Gabriel Hanna a special snowflake and cater to his delicate sensibilities?

I declare this thread a Safe Space. Your suggestion that he answer Dana’s post with a post of his own is censorious and close-minded. You all should have been more affirming. I sentence you all to a denouncing. Where’s JD?

Leviticus (efada1) — 3/21/2016 @ 1:30 pm

“Pointing and hooting is certainly easier, and more fun, than taking a position and supporting it with argument.”

– Gabriel Hanna

You should know. You’ve been pointing and hooting about “censorship” for the past 19 hours, without a hint of irony.

Here’s a thought: traditionally, censors don’t engage in public debate with the censored for 19 hours. That’s more indicative of, you know… discourse.

Leviticus (efada1) — 3/21/2016 @ 1:35 pm

“Submit a guest post to Patterico that says what you think should be said, Gabriel. He will probably publish it.”

– DRJ, censor

Leviticus (efada1) — 3/21/2016 @ 1:37 pm

nk says he thinks I should go get my own blog, not just because he doesn’t want to read what I write, but because he thinks there is or should be a policy that forbids me to say those things here.

Nope

[DRJ] is telling me that my comments are not welcome here

Nope

Gabriel, they didn’t say your comments aren’t welcome. They said it’s better to write what you think should be covered than to get mad that Dana wrote this post because Dana should have written something more convenient to Trump.

Gabriel, you aren’t a victim.

Dustin (2a8be7) — 3/21/2016 @ 1:42 pm

@leviticus: You’ve been pointing and hooting about “censorship” for the past 19 hours

I think you will have a very hard time demonstrating that I have mocked anyone. I certainly have argued, and criticized. Your comment was mockery, without any substance, and you doubled-down with “special snowflake” and “safe spaces” and such.

Somehow he equates this suggestion with “censorship.”

Actually, I said the very opposite of this thing:

No, telling me to go write my own blog is not censorship: it is telling me that my comments are not welcome here (and it’s only one person saying that, a person with no more ability to ban people than I have). The censorship is when a penalty or a policy is applied to speech

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 3/21/2016 @ 1:44 pm

@Dustin: They said it’s better to write what you think should be covered

Which I did do. I wrote it here. They wanted me to not have written here, but write it somewhere else.

to get mad that Dana wrote this post

You have no evidence that I was ever mad or angry. You have evidence only that I disagreed. Can people here not tell the difference? I expressed courteous and civil disagreement without mockery, and those arguing with me cannot all say the same.

Dana should have written something more convenient to Trump.

Absolutely not. I specifically suggested criticisms to make of Trump, none of which could be said to be handling him with kid gloves.

Gabriel, you aren’t a victim.

I never claimed to be. Leviticus put those words in my mouth, mocking me rather than writing anything substantive. Y’all can call me whatever–it doesn’t make ME look bad to be treated that way, and it’s all just pixels anyway.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 3/21/2016 @ 1:48 pm

Gabriel, your insistence that you get to say what everyone else means, in spite of what they are saying, while denying the plain meaning of what you’ve said, makes you come across as dishonest.

Which makes talking to you a waste of time.

Dustin (2a8be7) — 3/21/2016 @ 1:55 pm

Gabriel: your tendency to complain about cherry-picked mockery while simultaneously ignoring substantive responses to your (tenuous) concerns is going to produce more mockery than substantive response. This is a “boy who cried wolf” situation.

Leviticus (60c1bc) — 3/21/2016 @ 1:59 pm

@Leviticus:complain about cherry-picked mockery while simultaneously ignoring substantive responses

What you wrote, and what I wrote, is up there for everyone to read. I wrote many specific responses to many people. Only one person in this thread mocked me, and that was you, and I only complained of you doing it.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:03 pm

I’m going to call him Gabby. Or maybe Holy Hanna.

He said I could.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:04 pm

@papertiger:I’m going to call him Gabby. Or maybe Holy Hanna.

Now we’ve reached the part of the thread where the regular commenters trade insults about another commenter without addressing that person directly. A bit like watching Mean Girls.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:07 pm

Well, for the sake of civility I will rescind and apologize for my mockery, Gabriel. I will also second what Dustin said at #234.

Enjoy your pity party.

Leviticus (a6edbd) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:09 pm

Lets accept it as good spirited ribbing.

What say you Tedditicus?

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:10 pm

There are groups who say their goal is to stop Trump from speaking.

Yes, there are, but those are not the people who are being threatened and assaulted at Trump rallies, at his express behest. He openly calls for and encourages violence against peaceful hecklers, and against anyone who opposes him, and too many of his followers are taking him at his word. For all of my adult life, political violence in the USA was exclusively a phenomenon of the left. No more.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:16 pm

Phases is the most substantial of the lot, they have go back nearly 40 years to criticize him.

narciso (351923) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:16 pm

peaceful hecklers? no no no no. Disorderly conduct. Yup.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:18 pm

I’d like to see what Ted has to say about the Obama surrenders to Castro tour.

Should be in his wheelhouse.

Possible topic for a post?

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:20 pm

That is not true, I am afraid. I think that Israel’s behavior is much better than that of its neighbors, much better than those nations that make a habit of condemning Israel, and arguably better than America’s, but there have been human rights abuses of which Israel is guilty.

Which abuse charges, by its enemies, do you think are true? (There are plenty of justified charges that could be made, but its enemies don’t make them, because they support those abuses.)

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:23 pm

https://twitter.com/alex_satterly/status/711323486950596608

This link from the post is pretty powerful, even though I wish folks who give up twitter.

That crowd cheering one man stomping on another man. They would have cheered long after the protester was dead. Thank God those cops were there. Trump should thank them personally because if they hadn’t been, that protester would have been comatose or dead.

Lewandowski does grab that man’s collar. There’s no debating it. It’s not nearly as serious an incident, but it did happen. Like when Lewandowski grabbed that reporter and bruised her arm, the Trump campaign and therefore Lewandowski lied about going hands-on with someone. Trump blamed the cops instead of apologizing for mistakes.

I recall how Trump personally freaked out at Cruz over Cruz’s staff making far lesser mistakes. Cruz took full responsibility for the mistakes, instead of lying that they didn’t happen and sticking to the lie come hell or high water (which is a Clintonian strategy). Cruz even terminated someone high in his campaign.

We’re learning more and more about Trump. A President will run a government of millions of employees. Some will make mistakes and even commit crimes. Will Trump run an ethical administration that is accountable to the law, or will it cover mistakes up? We all know the answer to that. I think some of this stuff actually hints at Trump’s hope of intimidating his way out of criticism. Those bruises on Fields’s arm, showing where each of Lewendowski’s fingers pressed into the arm of that small woman, make it very difficult for me to vote for Trump in a general election. If Trump had taken a different response to this by being fair an honest, I would have been impressed instead.

Maybe my take on this makes me a bad GOP soldier. But I’m proud of this! I have no loyalty to some political party.

Dustin (2a8be7) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:25 pm

Hey, has Trump released his SC judges list yet? It should be great reading. I hope he knows that Denny Crane is fictional.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:26 pm

peaceful hecklers? no no no no. Disorderly conduct. Yup.

papertiger (c2d6da)

Sure, could be. In the link where the man punches the guy with the trump sign, he’s already being escorted out of the building. The crowd is booing him. Some idiot starts beating the hell out of him. I don’t know what the protestor said, but it’s possible he said something so offensive that it incited being beat down.

But is that any kind of defense to the assault? No it’s not. Is it a defense to the crowd cheering a man being beating down? Nope.

And that’s just a member of a rabble. When we look at Trump’s campaign staff reacting to a reporter asking a question… well at least I can see why they would lie about the behavior. It’s indefensible.

Dustin (2a8be7) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:28 pm

It’s like if they have some a hole running out onto the field at the A’s game, and the clown gets tackled to the ground by security in, oh my goodness, {someone pass the smelling salts} an overt and violent manner. I think the chief even grabbed the interloper by the collar {where’s that fainting couch?}

It’s not a problem with Major League Baseball’s competitive rhetoric. Even if the crowd roars their approval.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:29 pm

@Milhouse:The difference is that it won’t be true of Cruz’s followers, as it wasn’t of Romney’s and McCain’s, but it is true of Trump’s, and of Trump himself.

What’s your evidence? I sure hope it’s better than the David Duke disavowal, or the retweet of a sentence that Mussolini once quoted.

His repeated encouraging of violence, and yes, his one-time deliberate refusal to disavow Duke and white supremacists (which was enough to tip a wink to such people that his previous and subsequent disavowals were insincere), and his retweeting of comments from users with blatantly racist usernames.

He is behaving exactly as a Kossack thinks a Republican would behave, which reinforces buzzsawmonkey’s belief that his campaign is a giant false flag operation. Whenever he needs to respond to something he thinks “If I were a Republican what would I say”, and he says that.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:31 pm

Mr. Trump > turd crud

this is obvious to anyone who is willing to do the analysis

happyfeet (831175) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:34 pm

Can you imagine the hubbub if the Giant’s came over and blocked the road to A;s stadium?

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:35 pm

Loony left-lemons, Trump makes lemonade. Like I said above, “they” think that if they provoke violence at Trump rallies they will gain sympathy and support. Instead, Trump is gaining support. Girls like a macho man.

nk (dbc370) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:36 pm

It’s not a problem with Major League Baseball’s competitive rhetoric. Even if the crowd roars their approval.

papertiger (c2d6da)

I guess I have higher standards for would-be leaders.

I suspect if Cruz’s rallies had a horde or rabble beating down protestors, Cruz wouldn’t blame the lazy cops who actually saved the man’s life. If Cruz’s campaign chairs were repeatedly going hands on, and bruised a reporter, he wouldn’t lie about it happening at all.

Cruz would actually show this one weird trick that can change the tone of his crowd.

It’s unfortunate that a distinct majority of conversations about Trump involve someone on Trump’s side saying something is not Trump’s responsibility. It doesn’t give me a warm feeling that he’ll be a take-charge winner who gets anything done.

Dustin (2a8be7) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:38 pm

peaceful hecklers? no no no no. Disorderly conduct. Yup.

Heckling is not disorderly conduct. Or if it is, then the charge is unconstitutionally vague. Heckling is protected speech; no legislature has the authority to criminalize it.

In the link where the man punches the guy with the trump sign, he’s already being escorted out of the building.

Note that the man was not under arrest, because he’d done nothing wrong. He was being escorted out, not because he’d done something wrong, but because his permission to be there had been revoked. He retained the right to say whatever he liked on his way out, without being molested for it.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:41 pm

It’s like if they have some a hole running out onto the field at the A’s game,

No, it is not like that at all. People at political rallies have the right to heckle. It is an inherent part of the democratic tradition.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:44 pm

Speaking of responsibility, how about my brother in Arizona as soon as he had put the heel to the public disturbance call, he knew. He knew he had done it in front of all these cameras.
“Aw man, I’m going to jail.”
He was in the wrong. Knew it. Accepted the consequences in peaceful contrition.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:47 pm

He was in the wrong. Knew it. Accepted the consequences in peaceful contrition.

papertiger (c2d6da)

Then he handled it like a man. Pay your due to society and move on with your life. No one is perfect, but those who own up to their mistakes have some life experience, whereas those who say they never make mistakes probably have little.

Heckling is not disorderly conduct.

I don’t know. I think it could be. To reach fighting words you have to really cross the line. Offending someone isn’t enough. Offending someone a lot isn’t enough. But there’s usually more to it than that.

Regardless, I don’t think fighting words is a defense to assaulting people.

Dustin (2a8be7) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:50 pm

faith, hope, love – these three!

but the greatest of these is trump

happyfeet (831175) — 3/21/2016 @ 2:58 pm

Private venue, Trump sets the rules. Entering under false pretenses makes you a trespasser the minute you crossed the threshold. Remember the press conference where he evicted Jorge Ramos because Ramos insisted in asking his question when Trump was not ready to hear it? Trump was within his rights to throw Ramos out and no part of the First Amendment applied. And it’s that way across the board where no public space is being used. Those hecklers had no more rights in the rally than they would have had at a cocktail party in Trump’s living room.

nk (dbc370) — 3/21/2016 @ 3:13 pm

Top 50 Greatest Moments at Dodger Stadium – #7 Rick Monday Saves the Flag (YouTube)

Listen to that crowd.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/21/2016 @ 3:38 pm

The first amendment applies on private property as well as on public. The only difference is that the owner of private property may order anyone to leave.

Trump was within his rights to throw Ramos out and no part of the First Amendment applied.

Yes, he was, but Ramos was within his rights to speak his mind, both before he was told to leave and on his way out.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/21/2016 @ 3:52 pm

ohnoes

cruz campaign physically brutalizes womens

then they say oops so sorry

don’t know what to think here

looks pretty bad

happyfeet (831175) — 3/21/2016 @ 4:17 pm

Ohnoes is right. He all but pushed her into a wall. That officer needs to be retrained so that he learns how to push people into walls. I blame the lowering of recruiting standards for our wimpy police officers.

nk (dbc370) — 3/21/2016 @ 4:36 pm

yes yes Mr. nk i do not know what i am seeing?

pelicula mas violenta!

a surfeit of latino machismo runs through the blood of the cruz campaign

jorge ramos investigates tonight on siempre en whatever, pooper estupido

tune in to hear jorge ask

you like it ruff

you like the ruffstuff baybee

happyfeet (831175) — 3/21/2016 @ 4:41 pm

Mr. Feet, your link is to Salon.com. A more appropriate description, given its actual content (including the updates), would have been: Hard-Left publication strains to find equivalency between Cruz and Trump campaigns: Gives up because incident instead displays Cruz campaign’s spectacular decency.

Beldar (fa637a) — 3/21/2016 @ 4:41 pm

yeah well it’s a slow night Mr. Beldar

I don’t got a lot to work with

happyfeet (831175) — 3/21/2016 @ 4:42 pm

263 – Emma Do your mane!
Please.

mg (31009b) — 3/21/2016 @ 4:43 pm

Here’s a unanimous pro-Second Amendment (actually pro-Heller) SCOTUS decision to cheer everybody up. http://www.pagunblog.com/2016/03/21/second-amendment-right-to-a-stun-gun/

nk (dbc370) — 3/21/2016 @ 4:44 pm

Sorry, here’s the whole opinion: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-10078_aplc.pdf

nk (dbc370) — 3/21/2016 @ 4:49 pm

Now ain’t you glad we got Alito instead of Miers?

nk (dbc370) — 3/21/2016 @ 4:53 pm

nice yale boy, Mr. Alito

brings a lot of diversity

happyfeet (831175) — 3/21/2016 @ 4:55 pm

He’s Italian. You know, I want to tell you something about the Italians. When you do get an honest one, you really got something there. — Archie Bunker

nk (dbc370) — 3/21/2016 @ 5:04 pm

he got pizzazzle!

happyfeet (831175) — 3/21/2016 @ 5:06 pm

I have alito love for Alito.

mg (31009b) — 3/21/2016 @ 5:18 pm

Who do I have to pen against the wall to get an interview around here?

papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/21/2016 @ 5:31 pm

We have to shut down Gitmo because it’s wrong to detain terrorists without charging them for several years, but let’s go hug Raul Castro even though he’s been holding an entire island in detention since 1959!

Yay Barack!

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 3/21/2016 @ 5:34 pm

that’s your best comment ever

happyfeet (831175) — 3/21/2016 @ 5:40 pm

hey thanks Mister happyfeet, you’re a very funny guy, so I appreciate your remark.

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 3/21/2016 @ 7:21 pm

Oh, the guy from my link is the guy who said next time he’d have to kill the protester, and whom Trump offered to pay his legal fees.

Never mind my response to papertiger saying he took responsibility. Obviously that man doesn’t think violence was a mistake.

Dustin (2a8be7) — 3/21/2016 @ 7:36 pm

262. nk (dbc370) — 3/21/2016 @ 3:13 pm

Private venue, Trump sets the rules. Entering under false pretenses makes you a trespasser the minute you crossed the threshold… Those hecklers had no more rights in the rally than they would have had at a cocktail party in Trump’s living room.

That appears to be correct, or at least the first impression.

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/how-a-young-donald-trump-forced-his-way-from-avenue-z-to-manhattan-7380462

In 1991, Barrett and his research assistant at the time, Timothy O’Brien, later an editor at the New York Times and Huffington Post, decided they should try to attend Trump’s birthday bash at the Trump Castle Casino in Atlantic City.

While O’Brien waltzed right past the police officers guarding the door, Barrett was stopped. “They were letting everybody in,” Barrett says. “Because they wanted to make it look like Donald was the king. Everybody was allowed in but me.”

Barrett, undeterred, found a circuitous route, through a series of back staircases, onto the balcony of the ballroom where the main celebration was going on.

“I’m not there five minutes and they slap the handcuffs on me,” Barrett says. “Defiant trespass, I was charged with. Not just trespass, man, I was charged with defiant trespass.

Sammy Finkelman (89fe6f) — 3/21/2016 @ 8:10 pm

#263 Milhouse: you are incorrect. There is no right to heckle in a way that interferes with the right of the people nearby to hear the speaker. Such a heckler is “disturbing a public meeting” as well as the more generic infractions of “creating a public nuisance” and “disturbing the peace”. The heckler does NOT have the right to speak his mind if it causes any of those three things to occur.

I am not claiming that the heckler can be mistreated as he is removed. He has the right to be treated reasonably.

Ken in Camarillo (061845) — 3/22/2016 @ 12:52 am

Ken, heckling is an inherent part of the democratic tradition, and thus is core political speech protected by the first amendment. Any state or local law against “disturbing a public meeting” is unconstitutional, as is any attempt to call it a public nuisance or disturbing the peace. Applying those offenses to such conduct would also risk making them unconstitutionally vague, and thus completely void.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/22/2016 @ 1:18 pm

nk, Archie Bunker knew what he was talking about. My Purim gifts this Thursday will be on a fish theme, because as Archie knew we Jews love fish of all kinds. And yes, they will include a mini-bottle of Cherry Heering.

Milhouse (87c499) — 3/22/2016 @ 2:54 pm

3/20/2016

Here’s What Happened At The Trump Rallies In Arizona

288 Responses to “Here’s What Happened At The Trump Rallies In Arizona”

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