Ted Cruz Cheats at Golf?
Matt Labash has a long profile of Ted Cruz, with a startling revelation: Ted Cruz cheats at golf.
Americans are a forgiving people. They’ll forgive a guy who cheats in business or on his wife. (Cruz has been accused of both.) But will they forgive a man who cheats at golf? According to the Washington Post’s Ben Terris, Cruz is in trouble if they don’t.
Despite Cruz’s allegedly having a 4 handicap, he plays about as straight as a corkscrew. When Alice Cooper was asked who is the worst celebrity golf cheat he’s ever played with, he responded, “I played with Ted Cruz one time. That’s all I’m going to say.”
Sportswriter Rick Reilly, who played golf with Cruz for his book Who’s Your Caddy?, gave Cruz an 11 on a 10-point cheating scale, telling the Post that Cruz fabricated scores on his scorecard, called gimmes on chip shots, and conceded putts to himself by raking his ball into the hole rather than actually putt-ing. “He rakes like my gardener!” Reilly said.
When Mark Mulvoy, then-managing editor of Sports Illustrated, played golf with Cruz in the mid-’90s, the two were forced to take cover when a storm rolled in. After the rain subsided, Mulvoy returned to the green to see a ball that he didn’t remember 10 feet away from the pin. When he asked whose ball it was, Cruz replied, “That’s me.”
“Give me a f—ing break,” Mulvoy told Cruz. “You’ve been hacking away in the . . . weeds all day. You do not lie there.” According to Mulvoy’s recollection to the Post, Cruz responded: “Ahh, the guys I play with cheat all the time. I have to cheat just to keep up with them.”
Cruz, for his part, denied knowing who Mulvoy is, claimed never to have played with Alice Cooper, and of Reilly, he said, “I always thought he was a terrible writer. I absolutely killed him, and he wrote very inaccurately.”
Of course, you have probably figured out by now that this story isn’t about Ted Cruz at all. It’s about Donald Trump. I just changed the name in the passage from Trump to Cruz — to make a point.
If a story like the one above actually came out about Cruz, people would be very confused. Ted Cruz cheats at golf? That certainly comes as a surprise. And what is all this about him cheating at business? And on his wife? It would really throw people for a loop.
But a story like this about Donald Trump? Well, that’s different. Cruz supporters will sigh and say: yeah, that’s the type of guy I already knew Trump was. And Trump supporters can get busy rationalizing it away. Everybody cheats at golf. Why, it’s a good thing that Trump cheats at golf. It shows he wins! In fact, I’m not angry at Donald Trump for cheating at golf. I’m angry at Patterico for repeating a story about how Donald Trump cheats at golf!
OK, you don’t like stories about golf? Then how about suing people? Labash has that covered too:
A (very) incomplete list of people or entities Cruz or Cruz minions have either sued or threatened to sue includes: NBC, ABC, the BBC, the Daily Beast, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal for suggesting he had cash-flow problems, his biographer, a rapper who name-checked him, the Palm Beach airport for making too much noise, the Club for Growth, Jeb Bush’s super-PAC, John Kasich’s super-PAC, Rosie O’Donnell (she called him a “snake-oil salesman,” he called her “a fat pig”), Bill Maher (for not ponying up on a $5 million “bet” that Cruz could not prove he’s not the “spawn of his mother having sex with an orangutan”), a Twitter user who duped him into retweeting a tribute to serial killers, a Scottish offshore wind farm that would infringe on the view at one of his golf courses, his first wife for publishing a novel that resembled their marriage, his second wife’s bodyguard, a financial analyst for predicting his casino would fail (it basically did), and the Onion for publishing a satirical piece, under Cruz’s fake byline, titled “When You’re Feeling Low, Just Remember I’ll Be Dead in About 15 or 20 Years.”
Oh, dear: there I go inserting Ted Cruz’s name there again, just to show how incongruous it would appear for Ted Cruz to be acting like such a thug.
Even though threatening frivolous lawsuits is not even arguably innocent activity, like cheating at golf could be argued to be, this kind of thing will also be waved away. He uses the legal system! What’s wrong with that?! Anyway, well, um . . .
. . . I don’t like these posts. PATTERICO, YOU ARE SUFFERING FROM TRUMP DERANGEMENT SYNDROME!
Here’s the point. There is a guy running for President right now who, if elected, would turn Washington upside down. His name is Ted Cruz. Nobody thinks he cheats at business. Nobody thinks he cheats on his wife. Nobody thinks he would sue the Onion for writing a satirical piece about him. He would laugh it off, because he has a even-keeled temperament.
Yet there appears to be a real danger that he will be knocked out of the race by someone Big Media keeps pumping up. Why does Big Media seem to eager to pump Trump and lower the status of Cruz? Here’s a hint:
As the polls stand now, Cruz would beat Hillary Clinton in a general election. Trump would not.
And Ted Cruz is the only person who seems to have a realistic shot of defeating Trump in the primary.
This is a critical time for our nation, and this post gives you some facts to evaluate one of the two major candidates: Trump’s penchant for lawsuit thuggery, his dishonest personality, and the fact that he would lose to Hillary Clinton. Obviously I have done a bad thing here, and am suffering from TDS. Please commence killing the messenger. Thank you.
Maybe I can lose some more readers the way I lost Mike K over the weekend!
Patterico (86c8ed) — 1/25/2016 @ 7:43 amand the fever has broken… Ted Cruz… a breath of fresh air.
Colonel Haiku (33489e) — 1/25/2016 @ 7:46 amPatterico, it’s your blog. I’m glad to see you post what you do. Sometimes, I agree with you (and I do on Trump). Other times, not. But I always learn from reading what you post.
Simon Jester (2708f4) — 1/25/2016 @ 7:47 amLook, you know, I like Cruz – I really do! Definitely like him more than Trump. But let’s be pragmatic here – the only reason I’m gonna vote for Trump over Cruz in the primary is that I want to make sure Trump is still around as a back-up option in case Cruz says something really stupid or patriotically announces that he’s a natural born Cuban or something. Because (something something) Hillary Clinton.
Leviticus Channeling Apologetic Trump Supporters (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 7:58 amstop trying to make “golf” happen
happyfeet (a037ad) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:00 amMatt Yglesias has an explanation for why Trump despite his obvious flaws is doing so well. If you want to attract his supporters you need to offer them something.
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:10 amWhat’s that? The guy has a track record of fighting the warmunists and winning? Actually, fighting instead of the usual supine position most pols take when dealing with the climate clergy.
I don’t play golf, but I’m taxed everyday for the benefit of windfarmers.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:11 amPatterico, this is not a worthwhile post in my opinion. You have published several paragraphs of 100% false information and then explained that you did it to make a point. Then you publish another long paragraph of 100% false information. I’m disappointed in you. Think about the people who skim your blog or only read the first half of a post.
Charlie Davis (df08d0) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:13 amRick Perry endorsed Cruz, and not just his policies or conservatism. Perry also endorsed Cruz the man:
DRJ (15874d) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:16 amFirst off, Hillary! has to be on the ticket for Cruz to beat her. Second being a Cruz supporter is way different than being a Trump basher. I’m a Cruz supporter but you don’t hear me bashing Trump. That’s because when Cruz is the candidate I want his supporters on my side, not sitting it out because they were called names. We need the votes to be The Witch, stop calling other Republicans names.
How did you lose Mike K? Did you flag him or did he quit being a punching bag? Who’s next, ropelight? We are here to discuss and support conservative Republicans not beat each other up because they like someone. They’ve all done non-conservative things. Some more than others. But I’ll repeat: The worst Republican is still better than the best democrat.
We need a (R) in the WH and a Congress controlled by (R)’s or we end up with a Supreme Court of Pajama Boys & Julia’s just to begin with. Or a “refugee” for a next door neighbor.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:17 amI live in New Hampshire and I honestly don’t see the Trump wave, maybe I’m just too dense.
Sent in my absentee ballot for Cruz as we are headed to a warmer place for the rest of the winter and will miss the circus, I mean caucas!
Terry (df3209) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:18 amNobody, but nobody, punched Mike K. He didn’t like the menu and he didn’t like the other customers making so much noise.
nk (dbc370) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:22 amDo these routine Pro-Ted articles constitute as a Political Contribution to Ted?
(*Not that their is anything wrong with it)
Rodney King's Spirit (3adc86) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:23 amSo he got tired of being b!tch-slapped every time he posted a comment?
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:24 amPatterico, you need to be careful what you write. When the lsm is ready to try to take out Cruz, they’ll be quoting you “Cruz cheats at golf, on his wife and in business.” link to Patterico.com
Jim (a9b7c7) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:25 amThat kind of statement is by someone who is trying too hard to find reasons to back Trump. He was not “fighting the warmists” with that lawsuit. What does it matter whether he won that lawsuit? It’s a lawsuit about his golf course. It’s not government policy.
The only Presidential candidate who is actually actively battling the AGW crowd on the fundamental question of the science is Cruz. But I don’t expect that to sink in.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:26 amOnly after the Republicans rip the party to shreds over Trump and Hillary! wins and installs the “Fairness Doctrine” by executive order.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:26 amYou know, Patterico, one gets the distinct impression that you do not care much for this Donald Trump character.
Now come down off the cross, we could all use the wood.
JP (56a147) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:31 amThat sinks in Gerald A. Now let this sink in: Trump is the only Presidential candidate who refuses to bow to political correctness and people see it. He’s the only candidate that realizes turning America brown is not a good deal for America and bringing moslems here is suicide.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:32 amNot at all, Gerald. There has been an overriding theme in the comments that Trump has no track record of conservatism, but then Pat here, while attempting to kneecap the Donald, inadvertently shows that Donald Trump has been there and done that, in a real and tangible way, while the rest of field payed lip service. And most of that lip service, with the exception of Cruz, was pulling in the wrong direction.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:34 amSo he got tired of being b!tch-slapped every time he posted a comment?
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:24 am
Find just one time.
nk (dbc370) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:35 amThe Trump supporters flip out when a little satire is directed toward their icon. They claim that “name-calling” may elicit them to stay home during the general election if Trump’s not the nominee.
But when Trump’s making nasty remarks about Carly Fiorina’s face, or Megyn Kelly’s menstrual cycle, they suddenly become more flexible in their objections to “name-calling.”
I guess it just depends on whose golf game is getting gored.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:37 amHe didn’t do ANYTHING. It was just about his golf course. Even if he agrees with the AGW theory, which I have a feeling he does, he still would have done that. He was not pushing back against any climate change policy or the alleged scientific claims of AGW. And if some other property of his ever gets windmills built within sight of the property I have no doubt he’ll file another lawsuit. WHO CARES?
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:40 amMy principle objection to Jeb Bush is I remember before the 911 attacks when the freshly minted George Bush admin was deciding where off shore oil drilling would be allowed.
The two brothers had a meeting and then Florida’s coast was off the table.
That’s a track record.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:41 amYou’re really gonna start that nonsense, nk? The blog is hostile to everything pro-Trump and you’re gonna call e out because I said Mike K was tired of being b!tch-slapped. Can you get any more disingenuous?
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:41 amWell, Cruz Supporter as nk would say: find just one time.
I’m beginning to fully understand why Trump supporters don’t like us.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:44 amReverend Hoagie,
Are you joking? Do you actually deny that Trump made nasty remarks about Carly Fiorina’s face and Megyn Kelly’s menstrual cycle?
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:50 am” I expect I’ll vote for whoever the nominee is. Trump’s not my first choice, but I’d certainly support him over the two socialists, Hillary and Bernie, or the control-freak billionaire Bloomberg if he enters the race.
Meanwhile, for those alienated from the Presidential race — regardless of the reason — I encourage you to get involved in Congressional and state races. You go to an election with the party you have, but there’s no reason that has to be the party you have in two, or four, or eight years.”
– Glenn Reynolds Instapundit
Colonel Haiku (33489e) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:50 am“Trump is the only Presidential candidate who refuses to bow to political correctness and people see it. He’s the only candidate that realizes turning America brown is not a good deal for America and bringing moslems here is suicide.”
– Hoagie
See, you keep talking about being a Cruz supporter, but you periodically let the mask slip with comments like that.
Look, just own it. Pretending to support Cruz in the present is a poor excuse for plausible deniability when you inevitably pretend to be embarrassed (rather than excited) when you support Trump in the future. Cut the bullsh*t and just admit that you don’t like brown people and Muslims. It’ll save you hours and hours of fake hand-wringing over fake solidarity.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:50 amThis blog is hostile to everything pro-Trump because this blog is full of intelligent people. That’s not an accident.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:53 amI prefer Cruz.
luagha (e0ecb3) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:54 amTrump is doing important things.
Trump has a history of being pro-America unlike our current president.
I have noticed that Trump’s positions on important conservative issues depend on whom he is standing next to at the time.
Clearly we staple Trump to Jeff Sessions and we’ll be alright.
Yes, Hoagie, I am calling you out. As being full of [digested meal].
nk (dbc370) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:55 amHoagie asked, Who’s next, ropelight?
The thought has crossed my mind more than once or twice, but I’m still here. As you know I’ve left blogs before and for less abuse than I’ve experienced here over the last few weeks.
As for Patterico, he’s entitled to his opinions, but he’s not entitled to force them on me. My argument against Ted Cruz based on the natural born citizenship issue is nothing new. I’m on record insisting on the most restrictive interpretation of that constitutional provision going back many years. I actually like Ted Cruz and if Trump wasn’t in the race Cruz would be my first choice. (If that sounds like a contradiction, so be it.
I followed Patterico here from Oh, That Liberal Media and may well be among his longest and most loyal commenters. I’ve always admired and respected the man and I’m grateful for the privilege of commenting here. But, I’m not a punching bag, I’m a man with opinions who often expresses them in strong language and I take offense when smarmy pipsqueaks, puffed-up jellyfish, and smartypants cockroaches sully this site with their ignorant and disingenuous clap-trap.
So, no, Hoagie, I’m not next. But the way Patterico’s been acting lately it’s obvious he’s going through an unpleasant time – perhaps something personal – and it’s affecting his judgment. He’s on the verge of alienating some very good people who don’t deserve the abuse. You’re obviously well aware of it and many others see it too even if they fear to comment on it.
If that observation puts me under a cloud then we’ll just have to see where the chips fall.
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:55 amI’m still waiting for a Trump supporter to tell me what Trump will do beyond building a wall and rounding up all illegals, and what Trump has done in the past that proves he’ll follow through even on that promise.
So far all I get from Trump supporters on various site are ad hominem attacks and talk about how Trump is the only guy not in the pocket of the GOPe (never mind the recent support from GOPe hacks and his “deal-making” rhetoric).
Come on Trump supporters, lay out President Trump’s plan on how he’ll make America great again, something other than a wall and immigration. What is his stance on original intent, judges, repealing Obamacare, the EPA, Wall Street regulations, letting the states handle the question of abortion… what are his policies? Where can you link to specifics and what actions in his past can you point to that backs it up?
All this talk about Patterico driving away Trump fans, well back up your guy with evidence and facts, instead of emotional garbage.
Sean (221079) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:56 amAside: I like brown people just fine. Its Muslims I hate. It’s okay, I’m under a sentence of death in their countries.
luagha (e0ecb3) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:58 amnk and Rev fighting each other?
heh, someone is losing, and it is not the bad guys
and Leviticus is accusing people (who are married to non-whites) of racism and being stupid,
whatever the alarm is that goes off in a reactor core meltdown
should be blaring very loudly right now.
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:59 amNo I’m not. I’m am denying his supporters “suddenly become more flexible in their objections” which is what you said.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:59 amPaging Captain Ahab: You have empirical evidence in the Corker- Cardin travesty
mike191 (4c004d) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:01 amin which Mr. Trump has no fingerprints in this abomination while Mr. Cruz has a
big thumbprint.Moreover, you and the praetorian guard of the National Review
will continue to paint Mr. Trump as the new “Rough Beast” of the Wasteland
while the real threat of President44,his cabal and the Clinton Crime Foundation
is ignored.
ropelight, you sound like someone I know who is a big time original intent guy. His logic is also quite skewed on the natural born issue and for the life of me I can’t seem to square his reasoning as to why he would abandon an obvious conservative that matches his own values for Trump over that one point. He too has happily supported Trump who will most likely further liberal policies, abandoning many of his conservative principles in the process, all to stand on the single principle of natural born that from a legal perspective has changed several times over the course of our history and has no proper definition in the Constitution.
Sean (221079) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:01 amthere is only one person who comments here that is a Trump supporter as far as I can tell,
and one of his main arguments is that Cruz is not eligible to be president,
which we have dealt with multiple times
I see no reason to turn this side into a civil war, as it has become, because some people dislike Trump more than others
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:02 amFirst time Trump ran for President, his platform was paying down the national debt. Not just balancing the budget, but actually paying off the note.
That was circa 1999.
Why isn’t that included in his track record? Could it be because it would interfere with Cruz supporters favorite comment?
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:03 amI never bought on to the “menstrual cycle” connotation. I think he meant to say “blood in her eye” which means looking to hurt someone, namely him, and could not remember it properly. He is near 70 years old, after all.
nk (dbc370) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:04 amCruz’s book has an amusing story about his introduction to tennis. Having read that, I was really wondering what the first paragraph was all about until I read your punch line. Your golfer just didn’t sound like Cruz, but Trump fits perfectly. Alpha males bend the rule when “playing” each other? Of course, the point is to force your opponents to acquiesce. It works in any venue. Just consider Kerry’s foreign policy. Never send a Beta to do an Alpha’s job.
It’s harmless enough, as long as they’re playing horse shoes amongst themselves, and not hand grenades with the lives of others.
BobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:06 am24Come on Trump supporters, lay out President Trump’s plan on how he’ll make America great again, something other than a wall and immigration. …
Why would I need anything more? It’s hard to make changes. If Trump actually cut back immigration (preferably in a sustainable way) and avoided total disaster in other areas that would be fine with me.
What’s become obvious is that a large part of the Republican party doesn’t actually oppose immigration but still wants the votes of people who do.
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:10 amThe primaries are when Republicans and conservatives are supposed to disagree. As I recall, we’ve had contentious discussions in past primary elections, too.
DRJ (15874d) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:12 amIt’s like the tower of Babel around here.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:13 amYou have a good point there, DRJ. Maybe it is more like Pan Far.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:14 amOne wonders do we have a party, it doesn’t seem that way. Practically no senator backs cruz, but in addition it seems it has no response to any of the pressing issues of the day.
narciso (343b3c) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:15 amThere should have been a blanket prohibition on gitmo tranfers, thehudna should have been treated as a treaty, instead of the corkisham.
narciso (343b3c) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:18 amSean, I’m not an original intent guy. Patterico has addressed that issue to my full satisfaction – the US Constitution means exactly what it says – it’s THE black letter law of the land. Ferreting about for original intent is every bit as wrongheaded as detecting penumbras rising from the parchment.
MD, Cruz supporters usually claim the natural born issue is settled rather than consider the fact that about 1/3rd of GOP voters hold the opposite opinion. Sweeping it under the rug won’t do, it won’t do at all. The issue must be brought out into the light of day and addressed fairly, openly, and completely. Otherwise it will poison a possible Cruz candidacy or silently undermine his campaign like an undetected malignant cancer.
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:21 amWow, you do realize one does not need to be a shallow, small-minded Trump basher to be a real live Cruz supporter, don’t you? And if you want to talk about slipping masks, your arrogance is showing. I thought that was reserved for leftists.
If I were a man of your intellect I would be embarrassed to have typed that paragraph. The complete and utter arrogance of you to demand I should “own” something because you say so is repugnant as is the inference of bigotry. You may as well throw “hypocrite” into the mix as I am married to an Asian. A bigot married to an Asian, what a hypocrite!
Then you call me a fake on top of it all. Well don’t you just know everything. I am awed by your brilliance and omnipotence. Just so you know, I don’t like Trump as a person, or a businessman or a candidate and especially as a President so stop being an insolent buffoon. However, I will still vote for him if he’s running against Hillary! or the old guy.
I was for Walker, then Fiorina now Cruz whether or not you like it or even believe it, Levidicus. But if the attitude you just displayed toward me is the attitude you show every one else you need a time out for bad behavior.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:21 am“First time Trump ran for President, his platform was paying down the national debt. Not just balancing the budget, but actually paying off the note.
That was circa 1999.
Why isn’t that included in his track record?”
– papertiger
Probably because everyone has subsequently realized that Donald Trump’s idea of “paying down the debt” inevitably involves Chapter 11 bankruptcies that aren’t really available to, say, the United States of America.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:23 amName the last president that was elected on the platform of shrinking the federal government.
Bush governed as a dictator, Obama governed as a dictator, we are about to elect our next dictator. Pick your poison.
Ustuplay (d8c333) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:23 amLies! 🙂
Well, Trump is competing for votes and his competition offers smarter plans and records that show credibility that Trump lacks.
Obviously there’s a distinction between legal and illegal immigration. There’s also a distinction between truth and lie. Trump says he’s open to amnesty and has bashed hard line positions on immigration, then he says he’ll ban immigration on the basis of religion and other promises he literally cannot keep in the confines of our laws.
So when Trump is very vague, and we know he has flip flopped, we are suspicious that he is conning us and will flip flop as soon as he needs to, free of the specifics that might hold him down. “Fantastic deals” could mean anything. Imagine you’re buying a used car from a guy who won’t show you the loan paperwork but promises it will be “great.” That’s why many conservatives as Trump to nail down specific promises.
With all due respect, you have a tendency to cite some criticism and then respond with ‘and this is why the GOP is a mess, and you don’t get it’. It feels like you’re throwing your hands up at the problem. I think a lot of Trump’s fans are just sick and tired of politics in general and feel the Trump brand represents that movement, and while they must realize at this point that Trump is sitting at the same table as Trent Lott and Bob Dole, laughing at conservatives, they just want that statement of protest to win anyway. They don’t see how it will make anything worse.
Only thing is, there is a real protest candidate who could make things better, and supporting him is a more effective statement against the “GOPe”, or what I used to call “RINOs”. Vote for the guy that scares the corrupt, instead of the guy who tells you he does while shaking hands with Hillary and Boehner.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:26 amAs I recall, we’ve had contentious discussions in past primary elections, too.
DRJ (15874d) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:12 am
But this seems to be a particularly contentious discussion, one that is alienating otherwise helpful contributors.
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:28 am(credit to Gary Larson and the Creature from the Black Lagoon)
No the reason I brought up Jeb Bush is because it shows the danger of hiring a guy more interested in the short term political fortunes of relatives, than in the long term interests of America.
Who knows when the off shore reserves of Florida will ever be open for America, rather than China, operating from Cuban water.
On national issues there is a window of opportunity. We don’t want another guy who will bow head to the Sierra Club until the window closes. We don’t want another guy who will “forget” to hire his own people for US attorney so that Diane Feinstein can direct millions of dollars in government contracts to her husband’s firm while the Clinton (or in the current times, Obama) hold overs wink.
You want a guy who is going to grab the bull by the horns, instead of watching it run by.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:29 amThis isn’t the first time that GOP voters have turned their back on a formidable anti-cartel candidate. We did exactly the same thing four years ago with the pioneering Newt Gingrich (if Gingrich didn’t coin the term “Washington cartel,” he, at least, was the first to give it widespread currency). It’s hard for egg head candidates like Gingrich and Cruz to get traction, especially with the anti-intellectual bent of the Republican Party. People are suspicious of egg heads, especially, so it seems, Republicans. We saw that here in these comments in 2012 and in the primary votes in that year. I have to say, I don’t understand the dismissal of truly smart guys, nor the attribution of great intellectual skills to those who surely lack them (e.g., Trump and Obama). Cruz, to his credit, has done a remarkably good job of presenting sides of himself that are more relatable, more down to earth. I worry that, as polls seem to show, his efforts will not be sufficient.
ThOR (a52560) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:32 amWe have absolute authority (well the federal government does) to exclude anybody we want from entering the country, for any reason.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:33 am“The complete and utter arrogance of you to demand I should “own” something because you say so is repugnant as is the inference of bigotry. You may as well throw “hypocrite” into the mix as I am married to an Asian. A bigot married to an Asian, what a hypocrite!”
– Hoagie
Being a bigot and being married to an Asian aren’t mutually exclusive – they just speak to the parameters of the bigotry. Am I missing some finely-tuned nuance to your statement that “turning America brown is not a good deal for America”? I’m assuming you don’t consider your Asian spouse to be “brown” by that standard, but it is still a standard, it is still a blatantly bigoted one, and the fact that you feel confident voicing it in polite company is a testament to the extreme deterioration of what used to be one of America’s best qualities.
Thanks, Donald Trump! You’ve finally given us the confidence to publicly air our grievances about brown people! It’s like a colonic for the soul. We feel so much better!
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:34 amHere’s Obama campaigning on cutting the size of government.
“Net spending cut” was repeated almost as often as “Fired up” at Obama rallies.
If you can find an elected president since World War II that didn’t promise to shrink our government I’d be very surprised.
Also, for all the problems I have with Obama’s abuse of executive orders, the politically biased corruption of the IRS and other agencies that tilted the 2012 election, and the lack of respect for transparency, I think you and I are very fortunate to be Americans. You can call Bush and Obama ‘dictators’ and anything else you like Because You Of Your Freedom.
Go to Russia and try to publish that in a newspaper about P-10.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:40 amReverend Hoagie,
If Trump supporters believe that “name-calling” is really such a sin, Trump supporters wouldn’t continue to support Trump. After, all, he’s the candidate who engages in the most name-calling. Again, it just comes down to whose golf game is being gored. When Trump’s insulting Carly, Megyn, Jeb, or Dr. Carson, there aren’t any protests from Trump Fans. But when Trump is the target of mockery, all of a sudden Trump Fans are threatening to sit out the election in November if Trump’s not the nominee. And the reason they give?—“We object to name-calling and mockery!!!” (LOL)
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:41 am54 Obviously there’s a distinction between legal and illegal immigration …
I care more about the distinction between immigration that benefits current Americans and immigration that doesn’t. Admitting Syrian refuges might be legal but I still think it is stupid.
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:46 amsyrian refugees are icky
happyfeet (a037ad) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:47 amHoagie, Leviticus sounds an awful lot like Perry – he uses the same underhanded leftist innuendo Perry did in order to smear you as a racist when your real crime is refusing to knuckle under to a bully’s totalitarian intimidation.
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:50 am59 … You’ve finally given us the confidence to publicly air our grievances about brown people! …
People don’t seem to have any problem airing grievances about white people. Naturally some people wonder why there should be a different standard for brown people.
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:50 amQuite right, James.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:51 amWho in the GOP is supporting admitting Syrian refugees? Why are you connecting that to supporting Trump?
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:54 amWhat I do understand is the celebrity effect, the bandwagon effect, and, in particular, the Cartman effect (“Scr&w you guys!). Trumpmania is not difficult to understand.
We are all reeling from eight years of Barack Obama.
ThOR (a52560) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:54 amAs the polls stand now, Cruz would beat Hillary Clinton in a general election. Trump would not.
And if the polls showed the reverse would that change your opinion of Trump at all?
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:55 amI see this kind of argument a lot and I think I may have even expressed it.
I think it’s wrong to some extent. First, Trump is the guy who should be criticized, not his fans. Every politician’s fans who has two brain cells to rub together know that politicians are not the best sort of folks. When ustuplay says ‘pick your poison’, there’s something to that. If we were skeptical of Palin when they are saying what we like, we won’t be so surprised or even feel betrayed when they inevitably show themselves out eventually.
Trump’s fans rarely, if ever, say that Trump is thick skinned or well behaved. They aren’t stupid, either. Trump is appealing to folks who think being tacky is very minor compared to the ‘real problems’. Trump managed to jump out early as the guy whose movement represents a major change to the GOP. I’m noting all the time how this is actually BS, but that’s still what his supporters see in him. The GOP took it so seriously they had loyalty oaths. How does that feel to those of us who kept showing up to vote for Mccain, for Romney, etc, and know the GOP will abandon Joe Miller, ‘Good’ Sarah Palin, Christine O’Donnell, etc? This primary is more than issues. It’s a faction realizing they’ve been used, and given nothing in return, particularly on illegal immigration, where the faithful republican is constantly betrayed. And now they see one faction elevated over the other, with the establishment embracing Trump.
So Trump isn’t any sort of idealogue or even much of a Republican, but that populist shift in power is still a real thing. It’s very illogical if you’re just thinking about the issues. It’s actually very frustrating if you’re thinking about the power structure, as Trump won’t really upset any apple carts, and Cruz totally would.
But Trump’s fans probably feel like they have found a good wave to ride and hesitate to switch to another even though Trump is tacky, uncouth, maybe kinda a democrat, etc. Especially when they are bashed, cementing the notion it’s us vs them.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:55 amBy using a statement of mine which reflects an observation of 40-50 million immigrants makes me a bigot in your eyes I can’t help that. But your Nazi-like efforts to shut down the discussion by name calling, and not just any name but the mother load “Bigot” won’t work with me. Even when you try and parse my wife into the mix. And what should be voiced confidently in polite company is the truth. The truth is our immigration policy is changing the demographics of America and not in a good way. But this is a topic for another day. This is about supporting Trump.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:56 amLeviticus,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/25/2016 @ 9:58 amYou have hit new and disgusting lows with your attacks on Hoagie.
Totally unwarranted.
“Hoagie, Leviticus sounds an awful lot like Perry – he uses the same underhanded leftist innuendo Perry did in order to smear you as a racist when your real crime is refusing to knuckle under to a bully’s totalitarian intimidation.”
– ropelight
There’s nothing “underhanded” about it: I am openly accusing Hoagie of bigotry based on his statement that “turning America brown is not a good deal for America.” I know you guys don’t like it when we quote your actual words to you, but not everyone is lucky enough to be as immune to shame as Donald Trump.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:00 amYou do realize,
Don’t you,
That some of the arguing is simply over whether it would be better to vote for Trump against Clinton or Sanders
Or not vote at all…
Is that really an argument worth having???
Painted Jaguar (deca84) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:03 amThat’s my point Dustin, Trump is the one who should be criticized, not his supporters. Somehow we need to get the energy his supporters show toward him transferred for our guy. We aren’t going to do that by using the “Levidicus Method” and calling people names.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:03 am“Totally unwarranted.”
– MD in Philly
Totally warranted, to anyone with eyes in their head. “Turning America brown is not a good deal for America.” Go spin some nuance out of that and tell me I’m being unfair.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:03 amNot going to bother, Leviticus.
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:05 am67 Who in the GOP is supporting admitting Syrian refugees? Why are you connecting that to supporting Trump?
Ted Cruz did in 2014. He since claims to have seen the light but I am skeptical.
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:08 am“But your Nazi-like efforts to shut down the discussion by name calling, and not just any name but the mother load “Bigot” won’t work with me. Even when you try and parse my wife into the mix. And what should be voiced confidently in polite company is the truth. The truth is our immigration policy is changing the demographics of America and not in a good way.”
– Hoagie
YOU “parsed your wife into the mix,” as some kind of half-baked proof that it was impossible for you to harbor racial prejudice because you were married to an Asian. Does playing that card usually work for you? Allow you to immediately follow up with more statements about “brown people changing the demographics of America and not in a good way” with the understanding that no one can call you on it?
You wanna talk about Nazi-like? Think about all the nice Germans who really really didn’t (really) support Hitler (too much) but allowed him to spew hate about Jews and Slavs and other minorities because he would Make Germany Great Again. And look how that worked out. Why stop at making Mexico build us a wall?
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:08 amLeviticus does make an important point about Trump’s experience with Chapter 11 bankruptcies.
As I’ve stated in the past, last election we had the chance to elect a corporate turnaround expert.
We declined.
Now we have the chance to elect a bankruptcy expert. Do you see the trend line?
As the Instapundit states regularly, something that can’t go on forever, won’t. Promises that can’t be kept, won’t. Bills that can’t be paid won’t be.
Many states and municipalities are going through various stages of bankruptcy even as we speak. We are entering the time to break the impossible promises. Trump may be the man to do that, and let all the opprobrium fall upon his press-immune head.
luagha (e5bf64) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:10 amWhy don’t you all just f-f-fade away
‘Cause you don’t dig what we all say
Don’t want to cause no big sensation
Talking ’bout my generation
My generation, baby!
Daltrey was born in ’44 (71), Townshend in ’45 (70). It’s not 1965 anymore, you old fogies. It’s 2016. Things change. The world changes. America changes.
nk (dbc370) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:10 amNo Levidicus, what you are doing is taking a statement by itself without any supporting argument and calling me a bigot and interjecting it in a discussion about Trump, not bigotry or immigration. Now, should the topic arise I’d be happy to openly discuss it but this thread is about Trump.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:10 amSteve, permit me to doubt. The Constitution is clear, only a natural born citizen is eligible for the presidency. I’m not aware of a corresponding limitation on potential Senators. Which is an important indicator that John Jay’s advice to George Washington about the chief executive is unique to the office of the presidency:
That’s the basis for the 3 categories of American citizenship: natural born citizen, citizen by birth, and naturalized citizen. Think it over, if ordinary citizens by birth could serve as Commander-in-Chief the Founders never would have needed to include the more restrictive natural born citizen requirement.
So, no, I don’t agree it’s been settled. It’s an open an obvious problem which will only come back to bit us in the ass if we don’t man-up and address it head-on.
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:15 amWhy are we talking about whether a commenter is racist? How is that going to be interesting or help us discuss issues? Everyone here is a real person and therefore full of good and bad and says things clumsily at times. Or even says things that are outright wrong. It’s not worth changing the entire subject, is it?
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:15 amDustin #70,
I don’t fault you for not having seen the particular comments in threads during the past few weeks, but some of Trump’s supporters have actually explicitly stated that they may sit out the November election if Trump’s not the nominee, due to “name-calling” of Trump and his supporters.
And again, my point is, if Trump’s supporters are so vehemently opposed to “name-calling,” then come they never protest when Trump is making obnoxious remarks about Carly Fiorina’s face or Megyn Kelly’s ‘bleeding,’ or Dr. Carson’s competency as a physician.
A number of months ago, Trump himself asserted that he promises not to go “third party”—predicated by the stipulation that the RNC treats him “nicely.”
It’s a joke.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:16 amTrump Incorporated likes to steamroll people. They just can’t handle when people push back.
Here you go. People the same age as The Who are, singing My Generation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqfFrCUrEbY
nk (dbc370) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:16 amI don’t follow that. What exactly is it Trump is going to do with respect to state and municipal bankruptcies?
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:17 am“Why are we talking about whether a commenter is racist?”
– Dustin
Because it’s the wave Trump is riding, and it is absolutely counterproductive to pretend otherwise. It’s not changing the subject – the subject of this thread is “Why Trump?!” That’s “why Trump.” The sooner people realize that, the sooner we can pick our actual poison.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:20 amA Congressional Research Service report, Qualifications for President and the “Natural
Born” Citizenship Eligibility Requirement, dated November 14, 2011. From the summary:
I was wrong. It’s been settled since 1350, not 1790.
ropelight, do you not see how you are being played? If Cruz wasn’t a natural born citizen his political enemies would have already filed a lawsuit. Because if he wasn’t a natural born citizen, a US citizen by birth or at birth, then he was born an alien. He would have had to become a naturalized citizen.
His political enemies would have already filed a damn lawsuit to kick him out of the Senate. But they didn’t, because they don’t have a case. His political enemies know that you, ropelight, don’t have a point. If Cruz is the nominee they’ll file a lawsuit, sure, to keep playing you ropelight. But if he’s not the nominee they won’t. Even though, if you had a shred of a point, if he’s not qualified to be President he’s also disqualified to be in the Senate.
That’s the tell, ropelight.
Steve57 (f61b03) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:20 amIn all honesty, that’s how it reads to me too. They talk about how to constructively read laws with concepts like expressio unius that to express one thing here, and not to express it there, means the difference was probably intended. They don’t say you need to be a natural born citizen to be a Senator.
However, we are a nation of laws and after centuries had have to work out the flaws in our constitution, which was a very political process that was negotiated in order to be ratified. We do this with our second amendment, where the word militia has changed meaning and then has been found largely irrelevant to my personal rights. And we’ve done this with ‘natural born citizen’ in the most unsatisfying way, as the Court held no one has standing on Obama’s citizenship. We’ve had many presidents who weren’t born in the states, and many contemporary candidates who weren’t born on US soil. The Court isn’t going to have a process where inquisitors determine whether we are valid choices for ballots. On a fundamental level, this question is political, and the voters will decide if Cruz is eligible by either voting for him or not. Also, states will decide if he can be placed on ballots. If Cruz is nominated, being the GOP’s nominee will see to that.
I don’t blame Ropelight for finding this process lacking, but a lot of constitutional issues have been settled far worse than that.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:21 amYou may want to not repeat that third sentence, NK. Saying your Presidential candidate can’t remember stuff correctly because of old age doesn’t help your argument.
Bill H (dcdd7b) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:22 amTrump is NOT my presidential candidate. Where’d you come up with that?
nk (dbc370) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:23 amIf I had my way, people over the age of 65 would not only be barred from holding public office, they would also not have the vote. Just to be clear.
nk (dbc370) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:25 amYeah, I am sure you are right. And I have gotten caught up in the fervor of my side versus their side instead of keeping the attention on the candidates to a far worse degree than you have, in years past. But Trump’s fans are moved by real forces, and Cruz supporters are fortunate in that those forces can actually lead them right into Cruz’s camp if that’s what you focus on. Or we can be personalized teams that fight eachother, which is obviously what Trump is hoping for. Think about it and read Trump’s feed. He wants his people to feel besieged by geeks and PC ninnies and career bureaucrats.
There’s a lot of that, no doubt, but Trump is running for president, and the little guys are not. It can be legitimately tricky to talk about immigration trends without saying something that reads totally racist, but wasn’t meant to be. And giving even an overgenerous benefit of doubt is OK.
I would like this country to be of one common language and share a lot of values, so that we can all be the same community and no one is left behind, and I do think a lot of illegal immigrants from Mexico have less respect for our laws, and that shows up in other ways. I could stomp on eggshells instead of tip toe like I just did, and I could look racist even though I’m not.
Better to just not even have the trial and focus on Trump, Cruz, Hillary, etc.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:29 amIts not about trump, chapter 30, it’s about the mos wiseley of politics, where only the left gets enacted, and center right policies might as well doesn’t exist. He’s like tr, as his relative Malloch pointed out at the daily caller
narciso (5d0d64) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:29 amIf I had my way, only living, registered, citizens of this country would be able to vote.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:30 amOK, Dustin, let’s say you’re right and the voters will decide if Cruz is eligible or not. Doesn’t that make both sides of the question a legitimate campaign issue? How are voters to decide if one half of the argument is considered taboo?
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:31 amIf Cruz acknowledges having had a different position and explains why he’s changed his position that clearly distinguishes him from Trump. I see no reason to think a President Cruz in his first week in office will suddenly announce “Let’s admit another 10,000 Syrians!”, the ludicrous scenario you seem to be implying.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:35 amI think it is. It’s one of those race-like things that will be un-PC to note about a democrat, but that’s just me whining.
But as much as it’s a legit thing to say about Cruz and Rubio and Mccain and G. Romney and quite a long list beyond, it’s also not a practical concern. You definitely can say I shouldn’t vote for someone because it’s not what you believe is right, but saying you think the courts will shut him down after he’s elected, giving up Hillary… With all due respect I really don’t agree with that.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:36 am#90, Steve, American citizens are different from British subjects. What Brit lawmakers decide is the proper relationship of subjects to the Crown is vastly different from the rights and obligations American citizens (who are not subjects and who elect their leaders) impose on themselves in the form of a Constitution.
Brits go to their church and Americans go to theirs.
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:37 amropelite your three categories of citizens analysis is made up horse hocky. “Citizen by birth” is a bad paraphrase of the 14th amendment citizenship clause that ensured freed slaves were henceforth Citizens of the state in which they resided. It included these newly freed individuals into the category of citizens eligible to hold office as Natural Born Citizens, it did not create a new category of citizenship.
The only citizenship distinction in the US is the limit on holding two specified offices. The founders used a specific term of art to include the individuals who met the definition of the term in use at the time – and for the 440 years prior.
Steve Malynn (b5f891) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:38 amropelight,
It sounds like your focus is on getting Cruz disqualified, rather than defeated for being the weaker candidate.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:41 amIf Cruz acknowledges having had a different position and explains why he’s changed his position that clearly distinguishes him from Trump. I see no reason to think a President Cruz in his first week in office will suddenly announce “Let’s admit another 10,000 Syrians!”, the ludicrous scenario you seem to be implying.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:35 am
Let me amend that. I could imagine Cruz wanting to admit Christian Syrians, if there’s some way to verify they’re Christians. Possibly by their names. I would favor that.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:42 amThe number of words between the fake headline and the big reveal is too long.
matt d (d4aa6f) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:50 amI have to say clearly and without equivocation that the ugly display of ignorance and race baiting by Leviticus directed against Hoagie is disgusting in the extreme. Hoagie is no racist nor is he a bigot. He’s a true American hero, a decorated warrior, a successful businessman, and an upstanding member of his community who volunteers his time and money to help the needy and the unfortunate.
liviticus’s unprincipled assault on him is entirely uncalled for. Liviticus, what have you done to earn your place in America? Have you taken up arms to defend the nation at the risk of life and limb?
Have you created jobs for dozens upon dozens of minorities and immigrants?
Liviticus, you’re not fit to shine Hoagie’s shoes.
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:52 amI know I’m late to the game but wow! Some blame fool actually linked Matty Glesius and VOX and thought that was a good retort for anything? VOX and Matty have been stuck on ZERO days since the last Lost Credibility Event since the day VOX opened its virtual doors. William B Shearer has zero credibility for uncritically citing Matty and VOX.
John Hitchcock (b495dc) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:53 amI have not read what Leviticus (who I rarely agree with) said, but I do know this: No Trumpster is fit to shine my daughter’s shoes.
John Hitchcock (b495dc) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:55 am(make america great) trump > cruz (butt snuffler)
happyfeet (a037ad) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:57 amAmen, Steve. Just because someone questions it does not mean it is questionable.
JD (34f761) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:01 am“I have to say clearly and without equivocation that the ugly display of ignorance and race baiting by Leviticus directed against Hoagie is disgusting in the extreme. Hoagie is no racist nor is he a bigot. He’s a true American hero, a decorated warrior, a successful businessman, and an upstanding member of his community who volunteers his time and money to help the needy and the unfortunate.
liviticus’s unprincipled assault on him is entirely uncalled for. Liviticus, what have you done to earn your place in America? Have you taken up arms to defend the nation at the risk of life and limb?
Have you created jobs for dozens upon dozens of minorities and immigrants?
Liviticus, you’re not fit to shine Hoagie’s shoes.”
– ropelight
F*ck you, Troll. Your slavering eagerness to set out litmus tests for who does or does not get to be an American are what make you repulsive to me. Your willingness to carry water for someone like Donald Trump – who spits in the face of the best things that America stands for – makes you similarly repulsive to me. If Donald Trump and the people like you that support him represent America in any way, then I want nothing to do with America.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:04 amit’s cookie time
happyfeet (a037ad) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:07 amMike K. has been busy. I enjoyed his take on the National Review article. You might want to check it out.
BobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:07 amnk (dbc370) — 1/25/2016 @ 10:16 am
Hmmm, debating whether to show that to my mom or not…
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:08 amthey’re here!
i saw them at jewel but i could not get any cause of I am not deserving today
happyfeet (a037ad) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:08 amBut that’s just it. Trumpsters are the ones who shine your daughter’s shoes, paint her house, dryclean her clothes – that is, if they still have their old job. Many don’t. And that’s why they’re Trumpsters. And they see, quite clearly, that other Republicans view them as unfit human beings. What could be more polarizing than that? Or less humane?
ThOr (a52560) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:09 amThis is a class war.
ThOR (a52560) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:11 amIf my daughter’s shoes need shined, she does it herself. If her house needs painted, she does it herself. And I highly doubt she has any dry clean only clothes. And Trumpsters have no principles. If they were Democrat voters previously, they came in without principles. If they were Republican voters previously, they gave up their principles. Trump will only further the destruction of the US that the other Democrats started, his being miscreant Leftist Democrat himself.
John Hitchcock (b495dc) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:15 amThis sounded like Bill Clinton.
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2010/07/09/bill-clinton-famed-golf-cheat-preaches-truth
Sammy Finkelman (dbec95) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:17 am#111, Leviticus wrote: If Donald Trump and the people like you that support him represent America in any way, then I want nothing to do with America.
Great idea, you ungrateful leech, leave. If you can’t point out what you’ve done for your country then this country doesn’t need the likes of you. You’re just another useless mouth. If you can’t justify yourself, show why you’re fit to take up space, then do the right thing, but maybe you just haven’t got the guts.
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:18 amropelight,
Here you are, complaining that everyone’s out to get you with insults, all the while you’re telling Leviticus that he’s not fit to shine Hoagie’s shoes.
This is what you have a blind spot for. If you believe in your precious little heart that insults and name-calling is wrong, then why do you and your icon Trump engage in it as a knee-jerk reaction?
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:20 amYES. Exactly.
I was trying to convey this and thankfully hit refresh and saw your comment. These folks are not scum and I’m angry that this needs to be said. The GOP has disenfranchised them and sneering down is not going to win them over. Any group that thinks this way doesn’t deserve to win anyway.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:22 amIn 1999, it looked like the national debt might be paid off if something wasn’t done to stop it. federal Reserve Board Chaorman Alan Greens[an was warning about the consequences of eliminating the national debt. President Clinton and Al Gore was proposing that Social Security be put in a “lockbox” which meant that we strive for a budget that did not count any Social Security surplus as revenue. George Bush was proposing that instead of paying off the debt, taxes be cut.
Sammy Finkelman (dbec95) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:30 amall my life i had to fight
happyfeet (a037ad) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:30 amI agree. It’s totally warranted if you have eyes and a head. As long as you don’t have a brain to go with them. Which clearly you must not.
It harms the US national interest to import tidal waves of unskilled/low skilled and even dangerously hostile third world immigrants.
Even Democrats used to recognize that, before they discovered that harming the national interest was great for them personally and politically.
So we have insane immigration programs like the diversity visa lottery.
https://www.dvlottery.state.gov/
Barbara Jordan, D-TX (Google her; you might be surprised) from 1973 to 1979 also chaired the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform from 1994 and until she died in 1996 (which is why you won’t see her name among the committee members as she died before the work was done). If she had lived we might not have the insane immigration policy we have now. Bill Clinton promised her his support. But she died, and he broke his promise.
But before she died it was known as the Jordan commission, as she had put her stamp on it. You can read executive summaries of the commission’s reports to Congress, a couple of complete reports, their research papers, and other materials here.
http://www.utexas.edu/lbj/uscir/
But she said a lot of things about immigration, legal and illegal, that you no doubt would find raaacist. Well, the facts are racist.
We need to go back to the immigration system we once had, which had one overriding consideration. Does this individual have the skills and the desire to benefit this country. Essentially, that means all those hundreds of thousands of Central Americans need to be sent back. And we need no Syrian “refugees.” Because those Central Americans are exactly who Barbara Jordan was talking about; and no, they do not have the skills and perhaps not even the desire to benefit this country. And in the case of M.E. “refugees” if we can’t vet them to see if they want to kill us or not, then there’s no way to answer the question in the affirmative. And when you can’t answer the question in the affirmative, then those are precisely the people who need to be kept out. All of them. But this administration and the Democrats want to take them in precisely because it’s not in our national interest. Unless turning the US into a third world country is something you always wanted, Leviticus.
Take a look at California. It’s already turning into the third world. where there is no middle class, just a minority of the very wealthy, and a great mass of the very poor. It’s Barack Obama’s policy to take that nationwide.
Steve57 (f61b03) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:30 am#121 Dustin,
Again, it’s the Trump Team that engages in snide obnoxious remarks. He’s said obnoxious things about Carly Fiorina’s face, Megyn Kelly’s menstrual cycle, Dr. Carson’s reputation as a physician, et al, yet anytime anyone suggests, “Hey, you Trump guys are maybe sort of being jerks,” then Team Trump goes into full meltdown mode and threatens to boycott the next televised debate, or they threaten to sit out the November election if Trump’s not on the ballot.
That’s kind of a poker tell that for them it’s not about issues or ideology, rather it’s about personalities.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:30 am“Great idea, you ungrateful leech, leave.”
– ropelight
I’d rather wait for your betters to repudiate your bullsh*t in an election so that I can watch you scuttle off to your hole. You know: the American way.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:31 amthis is not friendly this is
it’s
it’s fractiousness
happyfeet (a037ad) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:32 amThis place is getting too rough for me.
-Bartender, Three Amigos
felipe (b5e0f4) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:38 amropelight @101, so now you’re saying you don’t even know where the founders derived our legal system. Including terminology like natural born system.
I wouldn’t brag about that if I were you.
This is right up there with you imagining there’s a category of citizenship other than a natural born citizen or naturalized citizen. There isn’t. No wonder you are so easily played.
Gentlemen, we are dealing with profound and insurmountable ignorance. ropelight not only doesn’t care about the facts, he’s proud of his obstinate ignorance.
Steve57 (f61b03) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:40 amLook at the Texas senate race ( republican primary) .
Cruz peaked at the right time. Trump has pretty much already peaked.
Iowa final tally
Joe - From Texas (debac0) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:41 amCruz – 45%
Trump – 32%
Rubio – 16%
OThers 8%
Of course they do. They like Trump so that’s probably fun for them. Trump is as obnoxious as a presidential candidate has ever been. But do you feel, as a Cruz fan, that they are ganging up on you and sneering down on you? Hopefully not.
I like discussion threads with a lot of different points of view, and I dislike those where folks harsh on the unpopular view. I may be dating myself, but did you read Little Green Footballs when they became aggressively hostile to minority viewpoints? It stirs something in the human soul when it begins to look like bullying.
I think supporting Trump is the wrong choice, but this thread shows why it’s not quite as wrong as I thought it was yesterday. Imagine one car cuts another car off rudely. The victim flips the perpetrator off. Who is the jerk now?
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:42 amThat’s kind of a poker tell that for them it’s not about issues or ideology, rather it’s about personalities.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:30 am
I said this once before, whether a topic can be made both too simplistic and too complicated at the same time.
How did Trump get his start? Was it not about closing the border and building a wall??
And among the things he doubled down on was “keeping out Muslims until we understand this” (or some such), in order to avoid being Germany and Europe?
That is an issue, and an ideology that “America is America first, and I’m tired of people ignoring our concerns”
Now, it may be that Trump is not a conservative, maybe not even a Republican,
but when was the last time the Repubs in power did anything???
Why can’t it be that simple? Why can’t it be that no matter what garbage comes along with Trump, a whole bunch of people don’t see anything better?
Someone talked about the Repub “LIV-low information voter”, who don’t know who Cruz is but recognize Trump.
So a lot of people hear nothing but Trump and people blasting Trump.
Well, guess what, the people that are blasting Trump are known best for not keeping their promises, so you’re going to listen to what they say??
what sense does that make?
So, for many it ends up voting for a bad candidate that at least will listen to something,
or worse.
Blast Trump and Trump backers all day long as much as you want. It is not going to help Cruz or hurt Trump,
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:44 amropelight don’t care about no stinkin’ facts, Steve.
Steve57 (f61b03) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:45 amEverytime anybody challenges them, the Trumpsters start crying, “That’s not fair—you’re actually asking me questions. You’re obviously not a reallllll American! You Canadian-born un-American Barbara Streisand-listening jerkity punkity jerk who eats arugula!”
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:47 amMaybe so,
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:51 ambut that is secondary.
I don’t think anybody wants to vote for Trump aside from his views on immigration.
yeah…cruz only cheats at not remembering he got a $500,000 loan from goldman sachs…who his wife works for…
sound awake (6ad1ec) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:53 amalready talked about at length and debunked/explained
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:53 amLatest FOX poll has Trump up +11 over Cruz in Iowa. He’s also way up in New Hampshire and in South Carolina. The TV pundits are talking about him running the table, crushing all other contenders, and they ain’t for Trump, not at all.
Do you like apples? So, how do you like them apples?
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:00 pmTed cruz appeals to those who already vote republican and their is not enough to elect the candian here. (he might get elected prime minister in canada if he wasn’t so slimy) Trump appeals to white democrats who’s jobs have gone over seas especially now that walmart is closing stores as america becomes thirld world country. Republicans have won popular vote once since 1988 in 2004. Trump org.o.p. loses again.
xeke (3f6cbf) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:03 pmThere’s our boy ropelight, again, talkin’ ’bout apples.
But if you ask him to defend Trump’s position on X, Y, or Z, you’ll get a response of “Why you calling me names, boy!!?? I’m for America—are you??”
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:05 pm(LOL)
“Monday Morning” by Fleetwood Sac
Monday morning Trump’s in the lead
Colonel Haiku (33489e) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:07 pmBy Friday he has me off my feed.
First he insults and then he blasts away
He can’t go on campaignin ‘ this way
I got nothing but love for Cruz
So I’ll tell ya what I really wanna do
First I’ll give cash and then give him my vote
But I won’t sit… no
I won’t sit… yeah, yeah
I’ll be there if it ends up Trump
Even if you think me a chump
Got to end this madness right now
Eek a Louse!
Colonel Haiku (33489e) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:08 pmWe’ll get the real polls in Iowa and New Hampshire soon enough. Iowa will be more important because caucuses weigh heavily on organization and will show if Trump has any besides publicists and press spokesmen.
nk (dbc370) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:08 pm“Imagine one car cuts another car off rudely. The victim flips the perpetrator off. Who is the jerk now?”
Is this a trick question? The bad driver, of course!
Colonel Haiku (33489e) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:11 pmThe problem I have with Trump backers is:
1) The fact that he blatantly lies doesn’t bother them. Or somehow it doesn’t sound like a lie to them when it’s pointed out. Same with how he has gone back and forth in the span of a few weeks on certain things.
2) They don’t have any clear idea what he actually intends to do on almost anything, except THE ONE BIG THING. With respect to almost almost anything else, they seem to make things up out of thin air or they accept some totally vague kind of statement by him as sufficient.
or 3) When it’s clear that he takes positions that they would be repulsed by if a Democrat proposed them, they seem to decide “That’s fine with me”. For example he’s in favor of govt. universal health care. They’re all like, “What’s the big deal?”.
4) They keep equating his past openly liberal positions to Reagan’s political evolution. This is ridiculous for a couple of reasons. First Reagan’s evolution occurred over a period of 15 years or so and was clearly evident over that time, whereas Trump contributed to Harry Reid in 2010 against Sharon Angle. Second Reagan didn’t do an about face on just about significant issue with a few years time. His economic views changed from a New Deal supporter to conservative, because he saw the results of liberal economic policies.
The typical Trumpster’s mindset exactly mirrors how a large part of the Democrat base is. You can’t point out facts to either group. Do we say the Democrat base are scum? Not really, but we don’t exactly have a high opinion of them either.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:11 pm129… Lookie that… Joe moves to Texas and they straightened his ass right out!
Colonel Haiku (33489e) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:13 pmI think ropelight has done more name calling than anyone.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:14 pmTrump is as obnoxious as a presidential candidate has ever been.
I understand that the founder of the Democratic Party, Andrew Jackson, was something of a scamp.
JP (56a147) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:15 pmTrump will be defeated in Iowa.
People don’t credit Cruz for what he accomplished in Texas. It was a skillful feat by a great organization. Any time I met a paid Cruz campaign staffer I was impressed by them. Serious, good people. Iowa rewards having your act together and you can’t win that state on twitter.
I don’t know that it will be enough. Trump will do great in other states. If the other candidates dropped out after the first few races and it became Cruz v Trump, that would help, but the establishment won’t let that happen. Rubio hopes to collect the support of whomever drops out (and will get a lot of it).
Still, when you think about the 2012 trainwreck you have to think about how good it would be to have a presidential candidate who knows how to run a campaign. Ruthless IRS hijinks aside, we should have won in 2012. It’s a plus for Cruz.
Plus, every election they talk about people changing minds at the polling place, at that last second, when they realize they are about to make a mistake. I usually roll my eyes at that, but this year I think that will be a genuine phenomena. Trump’s supporters will not turn out like Cruz’s, and some of his supporters will vote for Cruz at the last minute as a protest alternative.
And I think Trump’s fans have some legitimate complaints and are better served with Cruz than they are with Trump.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:16 pmIs anyone else amused by the argument revolving around ropelight’s assertion that Cruz is not eligible which is countered by many with recourse to settled law?
I seem to recall several recent decisions by the Robert “Court” that were startling for their imaginative use of the English language in pursuit of the administration’s goals. I think we are in a new age where “precedence”, even “language”, are flexible constructs that must serve the implied intent of the administration.
Short form: if the administration’s intent is to disqualify Cruz, I’m sure Roberts will find a way.
Point ropelight!
BobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:18 pmTrump was the first one to speak about what cannot be spoken; illegal immigration. Cruz wouldn’t have done that without Trump breaking the taboo. Conservatives have gone along with what the party wants for the last 27 years. No more.
dee (172d1f) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:21 pmTouche’. I really mean on a historical scale, though! Trump is an epic thing, whatever the hell that thing is.
So you’re saying Trump is like the GOP Obama, a scary nightmare.
Yeah, one thing to be a conservative democrat 50 years ago, and realize the party is leaving you behind as you govern like a conservative, and another thing to support partial birth abortion and Al Gore and Hillary and then flip flop for expediency.
I know a lot of the democrat base that I rather like. That ‘good man’ thing that Patterico is always given grief over… I get that. People can be wrong on politics. Trump’s fans are not one homogenous group and I need to stop generalizing, but a lot of them have so much distrust for the political process, and that’s part of why they like this guy. Trump was very clever for latching on to this dissatisfaction. With his lack of tact, he comes across as an honest sort of guy and an outsider, and by the time people began to realize he was actually BSing us, the lines were already drawn. Many of his fans really just want to shake everything up as much as they can short of revolution. And they aren’t bad people for wanting that.
Yes, it’s frustrating because there is a real human cost to giving up when we have/had some great options. And I think if you read the contrary opinions on Trump and still support him you are essentially placing that SMOD type party destruction over most anything else. But the betrayals this party has dealt out over the last 15 years are epic and I bet most of us get that part of Trump’s support, if not where it winds up finding its hope.
So instead of bashing the pissed off supporters, why not explain how this corrupt establishment is afraid of Cruz. Cruz who wants to shake things up on a fundamental, real level, cleaning out the kinds of guys Trump will make deals with. Deals that are made with knives in our backs. I don’t want the Trump fans to deal with another betrayal. They really need to reconsider Cruz’s record of walking the walk in DC even when it makes Boehner or Pelosi call him a nasty mean conservative.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:27 pmDustin,
You’re the guy whose comments often sound like you’re reading my mind, so I am puzzled when I see something like this, so different from my own thinking. How does this thread tend to show supporting Trump is reasonable?
By the way, I agree with you that many of his supporters have good reason to be upset and we should not sneer at them. (Which I admit I have done at times out of frustration.) It probably sounds like sneering for me to say that I think many of them are ignorant of the fact that Cruz is a better anti-establishment choice, but I think it’s true. That’s what I find so frustrating about all this.
Leviticus,
I hear what you’re saying in this thread but I urge you to re-read Dustin’s responses above.
Patterico (bcb9f3) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:29 pmSo you’re saying Roberts will contradict precedent that Roberts already decided recently. Your basis is that you disagree with Roberts on Obamacare. Am I mistaken in summarizing where you’re coming from?
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:30 pmDustin #130,
I appreciate your intense appreciation for threads with different points of view. Really, I do.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:33 pmTrump supporters kick and scream that they’re being insulted and unfairly prosecuted. But I merely ask, “Well, how is your candidate treating other people?!”
Anybody else got FOX NEWS on TV? Rubio just explained to reporters about Cruz defending a ChiCom company that got caught stealing a Florida company’s intellectual property. The courts found in favor of the American and ordered the ChiComs to pay $26 Million. The ChiComs appealed and in 2008 Ted Cruz represented them.
Rubio said:
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:33 pmrubio is just ungodly stupid
happyfeet (a037ad) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:39 pmi want some red velvet oreos
happyfeet (a037ad) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:40 pm150: “Trump was the first one to speak about what cannot be spoken; illegal immigration. ”
Ummm… no he wasn’t. See battles against Gang of 8.
He may have been the 1st one to say he would put up a wall.
He has said he would deport… and then let the good ones back in. No definition of good ones, tho.
jb (8a9f1d) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:40 pmMore likely: he cuts out the middle process (deport) and just grants amnesty per his 2013 tweet.
I’m not a fan of Trump, yet I’ve been so fed up with the GOP that I get it when someone basically turns their middle finger to the party. I see folks who are genuinely betrayed by this party, expressing their opposition to its direction on a variety of matters, being treated like crap, and I definitely gain some sympathy for the protest. You’re approaching this intellectually, realizing that Trump is not really a protest to the establishment lined up with him, and an establishment broader than the GOP, but really including all the crony stuff Trump gets into with the democrats.
Gerald is right that some of these folks (because they are so pissed off) are completely immune to facts and persuasion. That kind of loyalty actually opens up fears about the worst sort of power. I’m sure that’s the main reason some of the talk is so uselessly angry.
Remember that that ballot access BS in Virginia, where the wrong candidates (leading the polls) were kept off the ballot by the people working for the establishment guy. I saw (yet again) how there’s more to the GOP than reason and intellect. It’s a party I’ll never be loyal to again, and I didn’t want to vote for the ticket in 2012. By playing off my fears, point to Obama, I’m made party to a system I would rather reject. Since then, a raw nerve has been opened that is struck every single time the GOP does something dirty. And now I see just how often and how deeply they betray their loyal supporters. it makes me want some way to respond in kind. And Trump cleverly saw that and has harnessed it.
It is a good thing that motivates a lot of Trump’s support. That’s what I think a lot of people are missing.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:42 pmCheating at golf is in itself a small thing, but it says a lot about one’s character. Playing at my level, and saying I have a 4 handicap, would be like saying I can bench press 350 lbs. As soon as I’m called on to do it, it would be obvious I can’t, and what’s the point of claiming such an absurd thing?
Trump can afford coaching, and can afford to take a weekend off every now and then to practice. Why lie? What is the point of that? Who is he trying to impress? So freaking what if he sucks at golf? Make a joke about it like his toupee.
A man who has so much else going for him, but needs to tell absurd lies about himself, has a seriously defective character. Only a Clinton could be a worse President.
Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:44 pmI know Dustin is speaking in his typically rational, level-headed, and genuinely magnanimous way. He’s more mature than I am, and I will take a page from his book in terms of the tone of my future comments on this issue. But I stand by everything I’ve said on this thread.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:45 pmIs Rubio really saying we shouldn’t have lawyers for Chinese companies now? Really? Did he say Cruz did something unethical? That’s a pathetic argument. If that’s the best Rubio can come up with, then that really makes Cruz look pretty nice to me. Most of his legal career was doing amazingly good stuff for our rights.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:45 pm@Dustin:It is a good thing that motivates a lot of Trump’s support. That’s what I think a lot of people are missing.
They are being led by this good thing to do an evil thing, and that is what Trump supporters are missing. Pure motives don’t absolve or justify calamitous stupidity, or else the Soviet Union would still be around and all of us emulating it.
Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:46 pm“Gerald is right that some of these folks (because they are so pissed off) are completely immune to facts and persuasion. That kind of loyalty actually opens up fears about the worst sort of power. I’m sure that’s the main reason some of the talk is so uselessly angry.”
– Dustin
Yes. Well said.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:46 pm@ropelight:So he can’t go around saying he’ll be tough on China when he has a legal record in which he was paid a lot of money to defend the Chinese who had taken a product away from an American unjustly, unfairly, and illegally.
I know you’re quoting someone else. But lawyers have to zealously defend the interests of their clients, and even werewolves get to have legal counsel. Rubio wouldn’t know that from experience, having had no other career than politician, but there are enough other lawyers in Congress that he should know better.
Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:49 pmI will say, however, that I categorically reject Hoagie’s claim as he phrased it, that “turning America brown is not a good deal for America.” (E.g. I support increased LEGAL immigration as Ted Cruz used to before Trump scared him off the position.) I think that the backlash against PC is going to create its own backlash. Put it this way: while I may not be as inclined as Leviticus to furiously denounce Hoagie’s statement, and appreciate Dustin’s efforts to read such language charitably, I sure as hell am not under any obligation to defend language like that, and would rather not see it on my blog.
We are at a curious place where people who justifiably hate PC are going overboard defending statements that (in my view) cannot be defended. Hoagie’s statement above is one I would never defend. And if you want to furiously denounce me for that, then go right ahead. I can promise you that all your screaming will not change my mind on this.
Patterico (bcb9f3) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:53 pm“It is a good thing that motivates a lot of Trump’s support. That’s what I think a lot of people are missing.”
– Dustin
No. It’s not.
When there is a vast pool of undifferentiated resentment, some stemming from political betrayals, some stemming from policy positions, some stemming from economic frustrations, and some stemming from racial animus, how do we determine which opportunistic politicians are tapping into which strain of resentment? We isolate variables and look at who is appealing to which strain of resentment.
Any appeal that Trump has made to the political betrayal strain, the policy position strain, the economic frustration strain, Cruz has made that appeal as well. The appeal that Cruz has not made is to the “Mexican rapists” strain.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:55 pm107.I know I’m late to the game but wow! Some blame fool actually linked Matty Glesius and VOX and thought that was a good retort for anything? VOX and Matty have been stuck on ZERO days since the last Lost Credibility Event since the day VOX opened its virtual doors. William B Shearer has zero credibility for uncritically citing Matty and VOX.
Maybe if you read a more diverse set of viewpoints you wouldn’t be so baffled by Trunp’s support.
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:04 pmGabriel, you’re right. Ever since LBJ joked about making ‘them’ deny sleeping with pigs, politicians have gained a bit of immunity from fact. That’s reached a new peak today, where Trump’s fans hear stuff about Trump and decided they can’t see into the hearts and minds of anybody, so they are sticking with the guy who seems to care that they are pissed off. Especially when Trump has possibly trolled us into disrespecting his supporters.
To get where they are, many Trump supporters do not trust much of the information they get anymore from the guys who liked, say, Paul Ryan. They expect any sort of thing to be said of their guy. Just as you expect any sort of lie to be told of your favored candidate.
So when is the last time you went to Trump’s website, read it in earnest, and considered switching from whomever to Trump? Really opened your mind to the other point of view? I know I don’t actually do that stuff even for groups that don’t hate my guts. Trump’s fans are going to be a tough nut to crack.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:05 pmIt’s not that I defend it. I agree as it stands it’s obviously wrong. I’m just more interested in the candidates than the (hopefully) clumsy way people express their support for them.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:08 pmMy first thought – excuse my confusion – was, “Since when does Cruz play golf?”
Good article, I like Ted Cruz, and I don’t think it’s TDS that you aren’t thrilled with Trump.
Dianna (004c4f) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:15 pmPatterico, I apologize for my statement above. As far as defending it I do not expect you to. Therein lies the problem. In any discussion of immigration race and religion will need to be addressed. If we cannot address them honestly without being called a lying, fake, hypocritical bigot then PC wins and dissent will not be tolerated. And that’s not good.
In order not to get off topic when Levidicus attacked like a rabid badger I did not start going in the direction that Steve57 did in #123. He did it better than I would have anyway, he always does. Again to me my remark was a side thing, not the topic.
Again, I sincerely apologize.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:15 pm165 We are at a curious place where people who justifiably hate PC are going overboard defending statements that (in my view) cannot be defended. …
So you are a PC believer you would just draw the line in a different place. The line being between which arguments are ok to make and which arguments are not just wrong but evil and shouldn’t even be discussed.
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:15 pmDustin,
I’m coming “from” an age where settled law meant something, or at least we thought it did. We are all transitioning into a vastly different age. My projection is based on multiple observations, Obamacare (fines are taxes) is just one. Words are such funny things. To be liberal used to mean that you championed individual rights before the law. Today, the “law” is whatever the political winds tell us it is. Backfires set to protect wildlife and property are now “arson”. “Compassion” means taxing your neighbors to benefit small groups with powerful political connections. “Property” is just something that can be seized to coerce submission. “Public servants” are a benighted group of petty despots who rule without legal recourse and with no personally responsibility. Professionals and others who question AGW “science” are branded “Deniers”, and Congressmen and Senators have sought RICO prosecutions against them at the behest of AGW proponents whose research and teaching positions are funded by government sources.
Get with it guy, this is the age your generation has been brought up to embrace.
BobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:15 pm“So you are a PC believer you would just draw the line in a different place.The line being between which arguments are ok to make and which arguments are not just wrong but evil and shouldn’t even be discussed.”
– James B. Shearer
More BS. No one here is saying anything “can’t be discussed.” Say whatever you want. Just don’t whine when you get called on it.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:20 pmHoagie,
I agree that charitable readings are best. That said, I appreciate the apology and accept it. I offer my hand in a handshake, and suggest we all move forward in an atmosphere of mutual respect. I say that in the full understanding of my contribution towards our falling short of that ideal in recent days, and I apologize for my own role in that, to one and all.
Patterico (bcb9f3) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:21 pmI should note that what we have just done (apologize) is something Donald Trump never does. That is part of the problem with the man.
Patterico (bcb9f3) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:22 pmCriticizing the content of someone’s speech is not suppressing the act of someone’s speech. That’s a distinction so obvious that I’m forced to believe that the people that gloss over it are doing so deliberately, hoping to evade criticism with a smoke-and-mirrors misinterpretation of the First Amendment.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:23 pmAccepted, of course, Patterco. Thank you. Ya had to sneak in the little dig on Trump. God love ya!
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:25 pmJames B. Shearer,
A man unwilling to draw lines, ever, is lazy and cowardly — because he wants to shift responsibility for decisionmaking from himself onto the back of an ideology that he can blame when his ideology calls for a patently absurd outcome.
Patterico (bcb9f3) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:25 pmHoagie,
Like the scorpion, it is my nature.
Patterico (bcb9f3) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:27 pm“They are being led by this good thing to do an evil thing, and that is what Trump supporters are missing”
Even in 2008 I don’t recall the pearls being clutched quite so hard. With Obama. Barack Obama. And yet it’s a mystery why a Trump supporter might be less inclined to support the eventual R nominee down the road. Why does the GOP want EVIL PEOPLE anyway? Shouldn’t the GOP going for the nice folk?
East Bay Jay (c65ac0) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:27 pmLicense to kill gophers by the Government of the United Nations. A man, free to kill gophers at will. To kill, you must know your enemy, and in this case my enemy is a varmint. And a varmint will never quit – ever. They’re like the Viet Cong – Varmint Cong. So you have to fall back on superior intelligence and superior firepower. And that’s all she wrote.
Carl Spackler (31009b) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:28 pm# 154 –
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 12:33 pm
nothing like misrepresentation of the actual facts
the US company had sold the assets in question to a chinese company, A second chinese company stole the assets in question (intellectual property). Cruz represented the first chinese company that had purchased the intellectual property.
Joe - Texas (debac0) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:28 pmThanks for the clarification Joe. Sounds about right. Rubio is much like I’d expect of a true establishment guy. A really lame character attack when they have valid disagreements on policy that Rubio could talk about… if he was brave enough.
I’m going to embrace this comment and the notion I’m young enough to deserve it!
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:34 pmTed Cruz trolls Trump… BIG TIME: http://politistick.com/best-troll-ever-ted-cruz-just-poked-trumps-massive-ego-with-a-pin/
Colonel Haiku (33489e) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:35 pmI’m a Cruz supporter, and here’s how this article struck me before I read the reveal about the name switch. The only part that came as a surprise to me was the cheated-on-wife claim, because I hadn’t ever heard that about Cruz. I didn’t give it any credence though, because it could be just rumor.
My reaction to “Cruz cheats at golf” was “Even if true, so what?”
This didn’t even rise to the level of my reaction on a real shocking revelation about Cruz today (a real one, because Cruz did it on camera); that when he was in his teens, he acted like a teenager. http://legalinsurrection.com/2016/01/teen-ted-cruz-contemplates-world-domination-and-being-a-porn-star/
I was shocked, shocked I tell you, that a teenager would act like a teenager!
As for Trump, the only thing that bothered me about him in the article was the lawsuits part. Frivolous lawsuits are nothing less than lawfare, and I hate that.
Arizona CJ (da673d) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:51 pmWhat is it that Hoagie said?
That’s what the big deal is about? Really? Liviticus’ dishonest gotcha? Hoagie is a Cruz supporter, but he can also see Trump’s appeal – the reasonable voice of moderation must be destroyed – Alinsky style.
Instead of turning America Brown… substitute allowing or encouraging millions of illegal aliens to flood the nation, overwhelm our social safety nets, take American jobs, rape and kill innocent American citizens, drive drunk, sling drugs, join gangs and commit random murder. Would that take the sting out of too much brown and make it all ticky-boo?
Can Hoagie rejoin the human race now? Will the holier-than-thou Philistines put a cork in it? Maybe turn their intolerant PC witch hunt against the real racists and bigots they see looking back at them in the bathroom mirror every morning.
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:53 pmPatterico – I support increased LEGAL immigration as Ted Cruz used to…
Why do you believe you are right and Steyn is wrong about the effect this will have on the political culture?
scrutineer (17265e) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:54 pmAs predicted here on January 17th… “Ben & Jerry’s honors state’s favorite son with sandersnista oy! flavah creamy aged vanilla, maple chunks, nuts with a swirl of phlegm”
http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/266886-ben-jerrys-co-founder-creates-sanders-ice-cream
Colonel Haiku (33489e) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:56 pmLike the scorpion, it is my nature.
Patterico (bcb9f3) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:27 pm
I had a friend whose 2 cubs were like when they were growing up…
Painted Jaguar (a sockpuppet)t not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:57 pmsuccess in stopping arguments was very hard to come by.
It was not pretty.
not at all.
But somehow by God’s grace they all lived through that and all are on friendly terms.
“Instead of turning America Brown… substitute allowing or encouraging millions of illegal aliens to flood the nation, overwhelm our social safety nets, take American jobs, rape and kill innocent American citizens, drive drunk, sling drugs, join gangs and commit random murder. Would that take the sting out of too much brown and make it all ricky-boo?”
– ropelight
Hahaha… I would think you thought you were helping Hoagie, if I thought you thought about helping anyone but Donald Trump. But yeah, carry on. I’m perfectly happy to have you make my points for me.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:00 pm@East Bay Jay:the pearls being clutched quite so hard. With Obama. Barack Obama.
Because in 2008 he was unknown, and opposed by Hillary Clinton.
Donald Trump is not unknown, and he is unpredictable, and he is in bed with the Clintons.
Gabriel Hanna (3d8e32) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:01 pmYou’re conflating illegal immigration with people coming here legally who are not white.
Everyone here agrees we should stop allowing people to flood in over the border.
Apparently Trumpsters feel Trump’s real objective is not securing the border but that he doesn’t want non-whites coming in, even legally, and that’s the source of their dedication to him.
If that’s the case then just drop the charade where you pretend Trump’s now a conservative, e.g. “Reagan used to be Democrat!” etc.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:03 pmscrutineer (17265e) — 1/25/2016 @ 1:54 pm
Thanks for that link,
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:03 pmgood thing Steyn doesn’t pop in here,
he would be most unwelcome to many
At exactly this same point in the 1980 election cycle, the establishment GOP candidate, George H.W. Bush, was arguing that his primary opponent, former California governor Ronald Reagan was too extreme and too inflexible — hence “unelectable” in the general election. That’s when the Bush team coined the phrase “voodoo economics,” which was of course immediately appropriated by the Dems and gleefully used by them throughout the next eight years. Bush won the Iowa caucus and claimed to have “the Big Mo” (momentum) going into New Hampshire. Bush lost New Hampshire, though, and despite winning a handful of other states that would now be considered blue or purple (descriptive terms not in use then), Reagan swept the southern primaries and had the nomination secured well before the primaries were over, prompting a Bush concession — which in turn led to Reagan naming Bush as his running mate to consolidate the GOP for the general election.
Full disclosure: As a fourth-generation Texas Republican (a virtually unknown species in Texas in 1980), I was a Bush supporter. I didn’t know much about Gov. Reagan except that he seemed to me to be old, corny, and scary. It wasn’t until the general election campaign that I began to reconsider my doubts about Reagan; and in hindsight, it’s clear that I was completely wrong about him. By the time of his reaction to the PATCO air controllers’ strike very early in his presidency, Reagan had become one of my personal heroes.
Most of what’s being thrown at Ted Cruz right now reminds me of what was said about Reagan at this same time in the 1980 election cycle. I hope it will turn out to be similarly ineffective.
Beldar (fa637a) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:07 pmLiviticus, illegal aliens have no more earned the right to live in the USA than you have. What have you ever done for your country?
John Kennedy’s words should ring in your ears till you can answer the question. Till then you’re just another parasitic leech sponging off the American workers you look down on every day. A nothing.
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:08 pmThey had a FOIA of letters emails phone records from the Clinton library searching for correspondence from Trump to the Clintons.
No. Trump never sent them any mail, email, or contacted them in anyway. All contacts between Clinton and Trump were initiated by Clinton.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:09 pmApparently Trumpsters feel Trump’s real objective is not securing the border but that he doesn’t want non-whites coming in, even legally, and that’s the source of their dedication to him.
I’m talking there about non-whites (and whites) with real job skills.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:10 pm175 More BS. No one here is saying anything “can’t be discussed.” Say whatever you want. Just don’t whine when you get called on it.
What Patterico said was:
… would rather not see it on my blog. …
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:12 pmDRJ, thanks for the link to the piece on Perry’s endorsement of Cruz. I’m actually not surprised by it, but I am pleased by it. Were you surprised?
Beldar (fa637a) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:14 pmThat’s not true of this blog, much less the country.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:14 pmGerald, is racism all you’ve got? You sound just like a Democrat – there’s not a dime’s worth of difference between your arguments and those of yellow dog democrats.
Cruz is losing to Trump so Trump and his supporters must all be racists. Pathetic.
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:14 pm“What have you ever done for your country?”
– ropelight
I was born here, I guess? Which is apparently enough to satisfy people like you about where my loyalties lie.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:17 pmAlso, in the spirit of free speech: I’m done talking to you, ropelight. You are here on a mission to distract people and interrupt discussions of Trump’s dishonesty and bigotry. Jabber away, but I’m done jabbering back.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:19 pmApparently Trumpsters feel Trump’s real objective is not securing the border but that he doesn’t want non-whites coming in, even legally, and that’s the source of their dedication to him.
No, that’s not right. His supporters think he’ll police illegal immigration more aggressively than the other candidates, and he’s the only major candidate who suggests reducing legal immigration, too. It would surprise me if he wants to reintroduce national origin quotas since he’s proposed nothing like that, and he tends to be unembarrassed about staking out ‘extreme’ positions.
My guess is he’ll turn out to be less restrictionist in practice than he sounds during the campaign.
scrutineer (17265e) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:21 pmNo, Liviticus, being born here only obligates you serve the nation, to earn your birthright. As for loyalties I put you in the same category as Hillary Clinton. Born here but beholden to an outworn alien creed.
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:21 pm@ Scrutineer (#189): You’re referencing legal immigrant Mark Steyn there, no?
Beldar (fa637a) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:23 pmMD in Philly, Steyn makes what looks to me to be a strong, fair argument, but none of the immigration enthusiasts want to address it. Strange.
scrutineer (17265e) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:26 pmall this arguing and stuff makes me super-curious to find out who wins
who will it be?????
happyfeet (a037ad) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:28 pmI didn’t bring up brown people.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:29 pm“No, Liviticus, being born here only obligates you serve the nation, to earn your birthright.”
– ropelight
You are such an ass. The candidate that you’ve bent over backwards to support got a draft deferment for, what was it – a heel spur? In which heel was it, again? So what did Donald Trump do to “earn his birthright” or “serve the nation,” since that’s where you’ve just shifted the goalposts?
Okay. Done for real now.
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:30 pmI think that bashing Trump and his supporters is counterproductive. From what I read in comments across the web, his potential voters feel like their ideas have been ignored by both sides of the aisle and they’re outraged by such. They have a point. And when they see NR lambast their guy, it’s alarming. And when they find themselves in blog comments being called stupid, it’s even more alarming – they think they’re fighting the same fight, only to diminished.
Why not listen to them instead? Why not engage them and find common ground? Why not point them to the similar positions of your preferred candidate?
I don’t believe that the WH can be won without Trump’s supporters. Let’s keep our eye on the bigger and more important prize.
Beasts of England (fd750d) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:35 pmFrom a NYT article I stole from Drudge:
Cause, as we all know, there aren’t any American IT and Tech people and if there are the folks from Bombay are better.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:36 pmIt seems like we’re going around in circles. There’s no reason to prefer Trump to Cruz on illegal immigration. But Cruz is clearly more conservative on fiscal matters etc. Yet that means nothing to them. Then we get these brown people remarks. What am I supposed to think?
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:39 pmGreat news, Liviticus, don’t address me, I can live with it, in fact I prefer it. However, I’m not here to disrupt the pecking party. Pointing out that Cruz doesn’t meet the Constitutional eligibility requirements is taking up too much of my drinkin’ time and subjecting me to repetitious abuse by contaminated, twisted and sub-standard minds, which I can also live with. But I always appreciate it when a detractors says Uncle and run away with his tail between his legs.
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:41 pm“Cause, as we all know, there aren’t any American IT and Tech people and if there are the folks from Bombay are better.”
– Hoagie
That’s called “capitalism.”
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:42 pmBeldar, do you think Steyn’s argument becomes stonger or weaker depending on his citizenship?
scrutineer (17265e) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:45 pmI would propose that if we’re looking for people who’ve “served their nation” merely by being honest, productive, and law-abiding citizens of it, Donald Trump himself fails that test very badly.
Not many Americans can claim to have left billions of dollars of their debts unpaid — meaning they’ve left their fellow Americans who provided goods and services with less than a penny on the dollar for those billions of dollars. And no other American — none — can boast, as Trump does, that he’s dragged his dozens of companies through five separate waves of bankruptcies. Trump himself not only sues at the drop of a hat, but he’s very frequently sued, and his track record in court is abysmal; he’s managed to stay out of a jail cell himself, but as far back as 1991 he was skirting the edges of the law, and his companies were crossing it, as when Trump and his father had to admit to an illegal scheme by which his dad secretly pumped $3.5 million into the Donald’s casinos by buying $500 chips he never actually gambled with. He brags about re-trading deals; he demonizes his victims, as when, at the first GOP debate, when asked about his bankruptcies by Chris Wallace, he insisted that those trade creditors are “real killers,” meaning they deserve to be shafted.
He’s immoral and untrustworthy. His word is meaningless. He’s shameless, and will not be deterred from immoral or unethical conduct regardless of bad publicity, because he’s the sort of con man who considers all publicity as a good thing. That’s his record. Why anyone would trust him — for anything — is utterly beyond me, no matter how angry one may be at the state of affairs in 2016 America.
Beldar (fa637a) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:45 pmNo Levidicus, it’s called government intervention in a domestic market in favor of non Americans and as anyone knows government intervention is not capitalist.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:46 pmScrutineer, I think Steyn is a brilliant and funny writer regardless of his citizenship. I think he’s a rather flawed vessel to be arguing against legal immigration, however.
Beldar (fa637a) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:47 pmActually Beldar, that is the way a good citizen serves his nation.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:48 pmGerald doesn’t know what to think himself, but feels comfortable to tell me what I think.
How about this Gerald. Highlight those fiscal matters Cruz is clearing more conservative on, so we’re all in on the secret. Leave the mind reading to Miss Cleo.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:49 pmSteyn’s also demonstrably, on some occasions, a spectacular fool — as when he tried (for a while) to represent himself in the defamation litigation with Michael Mann and National Review that he references in the linked piece. But I still enjoy reading his stuff, and I’d love to stand him to as many rounds of drinks as could leave one of us still standing.
Beldar (fa637a) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:50 pmClearing? I meant clearly.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:51 pmThe people who let it influence their “real world” personality are kind of lost to begin with.
Whether it is a Cruz, Hillary, Rubio, Bush, Trump or Sanders supporter if it is in the realm of the blogosphere no one will be persuaded. The more relevant question is why do so many people think they will change a mind with aggressive approaches?
I’m reading Turkle’s Reclaiming Conversation: The Power of Talk in the Digital Age. Good read and might offer some insights into why our political discourse has hit the lows it currently enjoys. Content warning: it is not about politics and does exceed 140 characters….
voiceofreason (494009) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:52 pm#219, Beldar, yeah, yeah, yeah. But Trump will build a beautiful wall and make Mexico pay for it, kick out the illegals, get tough with China, bomb ISIS, take care of our vets, rebuild our military, and make America great again.
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 2:52 pmropelight,
I think Leviticus just took you to school.
You’ve made a week’s worth of meals at a soup kitchen proclaiming that Ted Cruz’ birth in Calgary is enough to question his loyalty to America.
And it turns out that despite Leviticus’ natural born citizenship, you’re now asking him to “prove” his loyalty to the country. So, it really doesn’t matter if a person is a natural born citizen of America—-or Belgium or Latvia—-you’re just going to play the “you’re a subversive!” card. (LOL)
By the way, who are you to question everyone’s loyalty to the country? How do we know that you’re not the alien, like in the classic episode of ‘The Twilight Zone’ ?
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:00 pmBTW it should be clear to anyone who has any brain cells that Trump has pulled ahead in Iowa because of ethanol.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:03 pmI think he’s a rather flawed vessel to be arguing against legal immigration, however.
By your logic, an immigrant can’t credibly evaluate immigration policy. That looks like a pretty feeble ad hom.
Steyn’s piece stands on its merits. When you focus on the writer and not the argument, you imply you can’t answer the argument.
scrutineer (17265e) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:04 pmI really mean on a historical scale, though! Trump is an epic thing, whatever the hell that thing is.
Point. Also, it’s no big compliment to stack DT against a 18th-19th century hellraiser who made a habit of affray over trivial (and not so trivial) insult. Apparently the man was so coarse his parrot was ejected from his funeral for swearing.
On the plus side Jackson presided over the most riotous White House celebration in history, assuming one does not count when British forces set it on fire in 1814.
That ‘good man’ thing that Patterico is always given grief over… I get that. People can be wrong on politics.
I hope so. I voted Liberal and Conservative when an Ontario (Canada) resident, and Labour and Tory when in England. My in-laws (English, staunch Labour voters) had no idea what to make of it.
JP (e30f35) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:07 pmYou think he’s just pandering? Cruz isn’t going to do anything substantial about ethanol either.
That ship sailed as a campaign issue. You have a choice between business as usual and more of the same.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:10 pmI just mentioned one in this thread. He’s for government universal health care. Are you somehow still not aware of that? Ethanol’s another one. He’s for phasing it out. Trump isn’t.
Why do the same things have to be pointed out repeatedly?
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:12 pmHow do you know Cruz “isn’t going to do anything substantial about ethanol either”. Now you’re just making things up.
We have “a choice between business as usual and more of the same” on what? You just throw out TV commercial type statements like ropelight.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:14 pmIf Cruz wasn’t going to do anything on ethanol, why on earth didn’t he tell Iowa, to get more of the votes we’re told he’s desperate for? I don’t get it.
Does Cruz had a record of flagrant flip flops? I thought it had a record of doing what he says he is going to do. It’s one thing to say you don’t like his views, but he’s definitely earned a little credit for what he says by now, after all the difficulty he’s going through because he refused to compromise his promises to the GOP establishment.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:18 pmI’ve met several Trump supporters who I wouldn’t typically assess as political. I don’t consider them lost, voiceofreason, as much as I consider them potential allies. I’m not willing to dismiss them for any reason, as they’ve become engaged (to some degree) in the process. Your mileage may vary.
Beasts of England (fd750d) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:19 pmThese are the same kinds of logical gaps you run into talking to lefties as I noted in #144. Some are saying try to understand the Trumpsters so they can be persuaded. I’m convinced I do understand them.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:23 pmRopelight @33, I’m seeing the same thing as you. I’m starting to worry I see the beginnings of Pat going the way of Charles Johnson with this Trump thing. Was he ever this riled up over Obama’s candidacy? Or the exploits of Hillary?
School Marm (f96753) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:26 pmThe Trump supporters are trusting a lifelong Democrat whose views have fluctuated all over the map. Yet they sit there and wag their accusatory finger at a stalwart conservative whose unpopularity among party leadership emanates from the fact he isn’t a jar of Play-Dough that can be molded.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:28 pmMt. Trump brings a breadth of experience I hadn’t realized he had so much experience with the bankruptcies and such
it’s like peeling an onion!
happyfeet (a037ad) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:29 pmexcuse me I mean *Mr.* Trump
happyfeet (a037ad) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:29 pmCruz supporter
Marv Levy (31009b) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:34 pmYour an over officious jerk.
Well,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:40 pmSteyn choose to take on Mann, which I think is great,
And managed to find legal representation that was willing to take on the case head on.
Besides, part of the issue is not just allowing immigrants, but allowing immigrants who want to contribute to the society,
Not take it over.
Marv, calling me a “jerk” is certainly one way to prove that Team Trump does not engage in name-calling. (LOL)
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:41 pmNo Gerald. Mr. Cruz… Sen. Cruz said he would be content to let the clock run out on enthanol, but the reality is the clock as it is written won’t run out until after President Cruz is out of office.
The trouble with government programs, especially the punitive ones, their clocks tend to be reset when it comes time to stop.
How long is too long to wait when one is poisoning the well? Should the cyanide industry be given time to adjust for loss of revenue?
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 3:51 pm#237, School Marm, someone in Psyche should look around the Interned blogs to see if it’s random or a pattern. If it’s a pattern the dynamics, conspicuously conceptualized, will build a fine case for tenure.
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:15 pm“There aren’t any American IT and Tech people and if there are the folks from Bombay are better.”
Sweet Jesus, not in my experience, not by a long shot.
Colonel Haiku (33489e) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:23 pm@ ropelight (#227): You write,
So he’s supposed to keep his word to the American public for the first time ever when we make him President?
You are a trusting soul. Too much so.
Beldar (fa637a) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:24 pm217 That’s called “capitalism.”
Which is why most people aren’t libertarians.
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:27 pmColonel,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:29 pmI think that was sarcasm.
#247, Beldar, I don’t make the rules or pick the contestants, I just winnow them out as best I can according to the Constitution as I understand it. Virginians can be stubborn when it comes to the Republic’s foundation documents.
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:45 pmit’s reverse, reverse psychology,
http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2016/01/25/do-republican-elites-prefer-trump-to-cruz-maybe-not/
narciso (732bc0) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:49 pmI have no idea what the last sentence means.
So what’s your explanation for why Trump supporting govt. universal health care doesn’t register with you? Let’s have a test of your creative writing ability.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:52 pmTrump is for cross border shopping of private insurance, and killing Obama care before it becomes a trillion-ton weight.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:52 pmThat worked out better than I ever thought.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:53 pmThis robot can solve a Rubik’s Cube in one second.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:55 pmWhat is it you don’t understand about this papertiger?
Donald Trump: Obamacare’s going to be repealed and replaced. Obamacare is a disaster if you look at what’s going on with premiums where they’re up 40, 50, 55 percent.
Scott Pelley: How do you fix it?
Donald Trump: There’s many different ways, by the way. Everybody’s got to be covered. This is an un-Republican thing for me to say because a lot of times they say, “No, no, the lower 25 percent that can’t afford private. But–”
Scott Pelley: Universal health care.
Donald Trump: I am going to take care of everybody. I don’t care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody’s going to be taken care of much better than they’re taken care of now.
Scott Pelley: The uninsured person is going to be taken care of. How? How?
Donald Trump: They’re going to be taken care of. I would make a deal with existing hospitals to take care of people. And, you know what, if this is probably–
Scott Pelley: Make a deal? Who pays for it?
Donald Trump: —the government’s gonna pay for it. But we’re going to save so much money on the other side. But for the most it’s going to be a private plan and people are going to be able to go out and negotiate great plans with lots of different competition with lots of competitors with great companies and they can have their doctors, they can have plans, they can have everything.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:56 pmBeldar ((referring to Trump)
And he’s the only one taking the position he does on immigration and on refugees. Nobody has said “Me Too!” *
That should tell you something about the substance of the positions that Donald Trump takes. They are evil, and seen as evil, besides usually being unsound and unworkable, and that’s why nobody will copy them. Nobody else wants to propose anything so immoral and nobody else wants to lie so blatantly. So Trump takes a position all by himself, and gets thevotes of people who are most inclined in that direction, getting points for honesty (because they think why else would he say it) adnd for not being handicapped by political correctness.
Now you could argue that Trump’s position on immigration is impractical, so that it’s more untrustworthy than immoral. But impracticality doesn’t completely stop politicians from proposing things, or from saying they can approach that ideal. And you could also argue that anybody else joining Trump would put them on both sides. But politicians are not all so deterred from flip flopping.
So why don’t they join in?
Why does Trump manage to be all alone so often?
It’s really because they think Trump’s position on immigration, and often whatever the issue is, is immoral, or that it’s unpopular outside of the Republican base. And why do they think it is unpopular outside the Republican base? Maybe because it goes against the moral sense.
You know ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.’
While you could argue it’s could be because they don’t want to make false promises, but this shouldn’t stop them from promising to try.
* although Cruz gets closer to Trump than anyone else, and attacks Trump as being on the other side of the issue.
Sammy Finkelman (dbec95) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:56 pmpapertiger will now respond well Cruz is for that too!
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:57 pmMaybe Trump’s mysterious “But we’re going to save so much money on the other side” is some way for papertiger to eliminate what Trump said there.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:58 pmI wasn’t being literal Gerald. Charging us tax dollars to dilute our gasoline is akin to poisoning the public well. Cyanide industry is akin to the corn producers.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:59 pmOr it was four months ago! You bringing that up?
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:59 pma more clear summary of my thesis,
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/25/pat-caddell-election-about-insurgency-not-ideology/
narciso (732bc0) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:59 pmTrump supports universal health care (not mostly government run) because all the beneficiaries are voters.
Sammy Finkelman (dbec95) — 1/25/2016 @ 5:00 pmStill waiting for papertiger to explain why Cruz is taking a chance on throwing away Iowa by lying and saying he wants ethanol to go away when he really doesn’t want it to.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 5:03 pmpapertiger will now respond well Cruz is for that too!
Naw. But I’m hearing an echo.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 5:03 pm@ 262. Cruz wants it to go away, but not enough to make it go away.
Another echo.
Fact is you have to make it go away, because the corn lobby will make sure it doesn’t.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 5:06 pmColonel, that was sarcastic.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/25/2016 @ 5:09 pmColonel,
I think that was sarcasm.
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/25/2016 @ 4:29 pm
Oh… in my experience, teh IT in Bangalore is top shelf… much better than Mumbai.
Colonel Haiku (33489e) — 1/25/2016 @ 5:10 pmnarciso, you may find this interesting: “How an obscure adviser to Pat Buchanan predicted the wild Trump campaign in 1996“
scrutineer (17265e) — 1/25/2016 @ 5:10 pmI can’t figure out why Branstad attacked Cruz over ethanol either. Cruz really isn’t any different on ethanol than anyone else per papertiger.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/430121/ted-cruz-ethanol-mandate
Iowa governor Terry Branstad lit into Cruz this week, breaking with the longstanding neutrality of governors in the caucus process. Branstad urged Cruz’s defeat, noting that Cruz “hasn’t supported renewable fuels and I think it would be a big mistake for Iowa to support him.”
What was behind this sudden outburst? Well, Branstad’s son Eric is a paid shill for the corn-ethanol industry who runs a shady group called America’s Renewable Future (ARF). ARF has been hounding Cruz on the campaign trail, sending out mailers and going on the airwaves to hit Cruz over his call for a phase-out of the Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS), a policy that effectively and practically mandates that a minimum percentage of ethanol be part of each gallon of gasoline sold.
In a report card issued by America’s Renewable Future, Cruz joined Rand Paul in receiving a “bad” rating, while Donald Trump joined Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders in receiving a “good” rating. A few hours after Branstad attacked Cruz, Trump demonstrated his continued willingness to be Branstad’s errand boy, joining in Branstad’s attack on Cruz’s ethanol position while pandering to Big Corn at a renewable-fuels forum.
It tells you a great deal about Branstad, and about Iowa politics, that he did not even attempt to disguise his attack on Cruz as a matter of conservative principle — this despite the fact that the corn-ethanol mandate through the RFS serves as an effective estimated $10 billion annual tax increase on Americans, in addition to its many other shortcomings. It’s nothing more than a cleverly disguised gas tax that wastes its proceeds on burning otherwise useful food.
Branstad has tried to frame this controversy as a question of Cruz’s being bought by the oil lobby. But Cruz has called for the elimination of all subsidies on energy, including oil and gas, so that attack rings hollow.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 5:12 pmit’s much more about class then ethnicity, that’s where francis went wrong, but codevilla, no slacker in the groves of the bureaucracy, made much the same diagnosis, six months ago.
narciso (732bc0) — 1/25/2016 @ 5:14 pmThe train left the station on the ethanol issue. There ain’t nothing going to happen, except more cars coughing and wheezing to a premature death.
But this issue brings up a point about Ted Cruz running out the string.
Might as well elect Mitt Romney if you are just looking to run out the string on bad policys.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 5:14 pmJust kiddin’, Hoagie…
Colonel Haiku (33489e) — 1/25/2016 @ 5:15 pmit’s really carp, it makes food more expensive, it is more energy entensive to produce it, and it makes engines wear out sooner, honestly sign me up,
narciso (732bc0) — 1/25/2016 @ 5:16 pmImagine how well Ted Cruz would be doing in Nevada, New Hampshire, and North Carolina, if he had truly earned that bad rating from America’s Renewable Future.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 5:37 pmthis is who I was referring to in the caller:
http://www.amazon.com/Doing-Virtuous-Business-Remarkable-Enterprise/dp/1452631263
narciso (732bc0) — 1/25/2016 @ 5:40 pmI guess that’s supposed to prove something. Trumpster “logic” is very hard to follow. Similar to leftie logic.
Still waiting on papertiger’s creative response to Trump’s socialist health care ideas.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 6:17 pmbut the reality is the clock as it is written won’t run out until after President Cruz is out of office.
If elected to a second term Cruz would not be out of office, which seems to be what his whole “never mind ethanol” argument hinges on.
Still no answer as to why Cruz pretends to be anti-ethanol in order to deliberately lose Iowa. Need something creative. Like how Trump takes on the AGW fraud by suing over windmills within sight of his golf course.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 6:20 pmIf we are being mean to ropelight over ethanol, I am going to be very embarrassed. Because it is a what Christie said issue. http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/263368-christie-if-your-eyes-are-glazed-over-thats-what-senate
nk (dbc370) — 1/25/2016 @ 6:31 pmif you hug the president, while your constituents are without power, and even homes, well maybe he should get some more glazed donuts,
narciso (732bc0) — 1/25/2016 @ 6:41 pmIt does get kind of like “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin” comparing Cruz and Trump’s ethanol positions with papertiger.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/25/2016 @ 6:57 pm{{{ This thread makes my head spin. }}}
If Donald Trump and the people like you that support him represent America in any way, then I want nothing to do with America.
Leviticus, let us on the right worry about Trump, while you on the left worry about Hillary.
Moreover, what does it say about the USA that far more than a small handful of Americans supports someone as dishonest, disreputable and incompetent as her, with even the best Republican candidates either trailing or barely in front of her?
Mark (f713e4) — 1/25/2016 @ 7:06 pmyou ban a whole category of guns, and like chinese food you have come back a half hour later,
narciso (732bc0) — 1/25/2016 @ 7:07 pmhe learned this, flacking for arafat, as a wannabe Friedman,
https://twitter.com/tedfrank/status/691644536288845824
narciso (732bc0) — 1/25/2016 @ 7:18 pmI don’t believe I’ve mentioned the word ethanol even viva voce in months much less written it here itn any context maybe for years. You guys should take a cold hip bath. That’ll take the edge off.
ropelight (8a8265) — 1/25/2016 @ 7:42 pmropelight,
You may not have mentioned the word “ethanol,” but you’ve certainly mentioned the word, “as*hole,” when engaging people who disagree with you.
What’s so shocking, is that your guy Trump would never call anybody names, right?
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/25/2016 @ 7:49 pmGood Lord.
When you get down to it every windmill is an eyesore to somebody. Every windmill is a hazard to wildlife. Every windmill is waste of resources. You knock one down, or better, make sure one’s never built you’ve saved someone the headache and the public a ton of money.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 7:49 pmI answered you @ 243. That was before you cut n pasted the Pelley interview.
That Trump will allow shopping for private health care insurance across state borders. Encouraging competition.
No appreciable difference, except that you take the Donald’s reassertion of the status quo regarding America’s health care safety net, and frame it as government owned healthcare.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:03 pmIF you are going to quote English law about what constitutes natural born, there was quite a bit of change between 1350 and 1800. You would never ever have got any British nobility to venture forth to the colonies if their offspring born overseas did not count as British. That wasn’t an issue in 1350.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:08 pmAnd anyway, are we not yet done with the FUD-mongering?
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:09 pmThink a reply to Dustin done got et.
Well I’m calling it a night. Later, all
JP (e30f35) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:14 pmrubio is just ungodly stupid
Sad to say, his support of the current H1-B visa system — in which outsourcing companies hire foreigners at low wages and rent them to US firms to replace entire groups of US workers — is brain-dead to the extreme. Cruz is against.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:15 pmMost of what’s being thrown at Ted Cruz right now reminds me of what was said about Reagan at this same time in the 1980 election cycle. I hope it will turn out to be similarly ineffective.
Yes. For a moment I thought you were comparing Reagan and Trump, and I was going to suggest that what Trump knows about the Triad, Reagan still knows.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:19 pmThe following report scares the hell out of me. After all, it reflects just how deranged and corrupt a society can become — ruthless criminals have free reign while innocent bystanders burn and die — of just how dysfunctional a nation can become (98% of murders go unsolved?!! Just 12% of crimes are reported?!!), and of just how unhinged and desperate humans can end up. Ratchet down the dynamics described below merely a few notches and you’re not too far from the frenzy of Trump-can-do-no-wrong meeting head on with Hillary-can-do-no-wrong.
^ The growing cynicism and anger in America, from its populace directed towards its government, from its government directed towards its populace — with blame and excuses flying fast and far from all sides — is like merely the early stage of the late-term cancer feeding on nations similar to Mexico, with parts of Europe pulling up the rear.
Mark (f713e4) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:22 pm#219, Beldar, yeah, yeah, yeah. But Trump will build a beautiful wall and make Mexico pay for it, kick out the illegals, get tough with China, bomb ISIS, take care of our vets, rebuild our military, and make America great again.
ropelight–
Someone is forging your name and posting jingoistic comments to make you look bad.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:26 pmR.I.P. Jimmy Bain, bass player for Rainbow and Dio
Icy (8ee18a) — 1/25/2016 @ 8:34 pmThe Story of Ted Cruz (youtube)
It reminds me of the film strips they show at the nominating convention.
The most interesting part for me was the testimonial by James Carville.
Why would Skeletor hand out such effusive praise of a political enemy? It was a round table discussion at CNN so I imagine there was time to fill.
Anyhow, testimonial from a respectful opposition, that’s the sort of thing you aught to emphasize, rather than slinging insults or moan about how we are so thick nothing said could penetrate.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/25/2016 @ 11:47 pmSomething else. This birther stuff is an angle. Ted Cruz should embrace it. His parents are articulate honest folk. Bring them out. Have them tell their story to whomever, friend or foe. They have a compelling message. Castro was stealing property and silencing opposition, forbidding religion, and that drove Rafael Cruz out of Cuba. His Aunt Sonja fought against Castro and was imprisoned.
Remember when Arnold gave his speech at the McCain convention? Cruz’s family story has that kind of appeal.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:04 amWill one senator back Cruz?
mg (31009b) — 1/26/2016 @ 2:58 amI am confused…
mg (31009b) — 1/26/2016 @ 3:36 amhttp://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/26/senate-majority-leader-mitch-mcconnell-attorney-heads-pro-cruz-anti-trump-super-pac/#more-111488
I agree: I DO NOT THINK CRUZ cheats at business,
cheats on his wife, or would sue the Onion
for writing a satirical piece about him.
Why?
Because I think CRUZ IS A talk-talk-talk POLITICIAN
who will ACCOMPLISH NOTHING…
…except that which his globalist puppetmasters wish.
It has been EASY for Cruz to “appear” principled and noble.
Again: WHY?
Because he knew each and every time his
“principled stance” on a bill had NO CHANCE of passing.
NO risk, no danger.
TRUMP 2016.
Kauf Buch (045603) — 1/26/2016 @ 4:38 amsounds like he sucks ass at golf like a pooper
happyfeet (831175) — 1/26/2016 @ 4:40 amGolf was invented by Scotsmen so they’d have an excuse to be hanging around sheep pastures all the time.
nk (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 4:57 amHe finds more useful things to do, besides you end up playing with mcturtle or zaphod.
narciso (732bc0) — 1/26/2016 @ 4:57 amGolf is for before you have kids or after you’ve raised them. Meantime, you go to Little League, and soccer, and swimming, and piano, and church, and band practice, and parades, and work to pay for all of it.
nk (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:02 am— My youngest just graduated high school and I got a set of golf clubs for him.
nk (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:05 am— Good trade.
Sounds I miss from golf-
mg (31009b) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:09 ampersimmon making contact with a Dunlop
golf cleats on the cart paths
someone saying “press”
Kauf Buch, you need name who his ” his globalist puppet masters” are.
You seem not to like Cruz “appearing” noble because “Because he knew each and every time his
“principled stance” on a bill had NO CHANCE of passing.” But the reason they didn’t was because of ardent anti American leftist democrats and unprincipled Republicans. He held to his principles it was they who did not.
Your argument is confusing.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:38 amKauf Buch, you need name who his ” his globalist puppet masters” are.
Disney Corporation because Walt Disney was a nazi and everyone knows nazis are hiding on the dark side of the moon purposely keeping weed from being legalized because 9/11 was an inside job by the reptilian overlords because they’re tired of living underground because f***ing OBAMA is taking away our rights just to make way for his army of Bigfoot to implement martial law and keep is all in concentration camps because I don’t want to wash my hair.
nauf kuch (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:09 amThank you, Fox Mulder.
narciso (732bc0) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:11 amAnd he’s being paid over $42,000 a year! Gotta love them democrats. BTW, I had to put the )D) in because, as usual, the “media” left out his party affiliation since he isn’t a Republican.
Thank you nauf kuch for clearing that up for me.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:18 amYou’re welcome. Like. Happy 4/20 you sheep.
nauf kuch (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:19 amhttp://www.americanthinker.com/images/bucket/2016-01/195981_5_.jpg
Remain calm!
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:20 amHeh. There’s a proposal in Illinois to take our governors straight to the federal pokey the minute they’re elected, because they’ll end up there anyway and we might as well try to minimize the damage and conserve criminal justice system resources.
nk (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:23 amAye, virgin wool is a fleet footed sheep, laddie!
Colonel Haiku (5243a2) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:59 amHere’s an excerpt from Rich Lowry, National Review 01/26/2016:
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 8:05 amEscerpt from Nick Gass, Pilitico 1/26/16
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 8:16 amExcerpt from CNN’s Polling Director, Jennifer Agiesta, 1/26/16:
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 8:29 amNow that I don’t get. Why would evangelicals support a guy like Trump? He’s not religious as a matter of fact he comes off rather irreligious to me and has never to my knowledge shown any indication of a slight let alone deep commitment to God, Jesus or any religion. Sees they should go for Cruz who is a very religious practicing Christian.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/26/2016 @ 8:31 amI agree Hoagie, it does seem that evangelicals would tend to support Cruz over Trump as the more religious candidate, but Cruz is Catholic and Trump is Presbyterian. Evangelicals are almost exclusively protestant. I’m not wedded to it but that’s my working hypothesis till some better explanation comes along.
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 8:43 amCruz is a Southern Baptist.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/26/2016 @ 8:52 amAs are Cruz’s parents. He’s a natural born Southern Baptist.
Trump’s appeal to “white evengelicals” is obvious — his anti-Muslim stance.
nk (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 8:59 amSo he is, thanks Gerald for pointing that out, I need a new working hypothesis.
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 9:02 amAs my bible thumper neighbor reports, Baptists are really just Methodists who can’t read.
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 9:06 amYou’re saying white evangelicals are anti moslem, nk? That sounds like a bigoted statement. Are these only white evangelicals or are the black ones included?
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/26/2016 @ 9:09 amIf I were to state that moslems are anti white evangelical would that be bigoted?
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/26/2016 @ 9:11 amI need a new working hypothesis.
I’ll be nice and suggest that “white evangelicals” are very pro-Israel — they have been called Zionist Christian — because they believe that the re-establishment of Israel is a necessary condition to the Second Coming.
nk (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 9:11 amIn case you haven’t noticed Israel has been “re-established” since 1948. Try and keep up.
Are you a white evangelical nk, or just an expert on them? They’ve been called “Zionist Christian” by whom? Considering you just basically called them Christian bigots I’ll need clarification.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/26/2016 @ 9:16 amI’m white, but I’m not an evangelical, and I’m pro-Israel. Not because of any belief but because Israel is a steadfast ally, a democratic nation, a bastion of civilization surrounded and under siege from bloodthirsty Islamic savages.
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 9:22 amYou want to read something once in a while, Hoagie? Aren’t you tired of All In The Family reruns? There’s a whole lot of information out there for you. Google Zionist Christian or even Christian Zionist, for a start.
And I did not say all “white evangelicals” were anti-Muslim bigots. I’ll go with 37% like the poll says.
nk (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 9:23 amYou don’t have to be a bigot to be anti-Muslim. All you have to do is watch TV. Those animals provide all the proof anyone needs to see them for exactly what they are – a malignant cancer on the human race.
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 9:29 amthis was the piece I was referring to,
http://dailycaller.com/2016/01/23/conservative-intellectual-blasts-national-reviews-trump-attack-it-no-longer-represents-real-conservatism/
narciso (732bc0) — 1/26/2016 @ 9:30 amYou stated that “Trump’s appeal to “white evengelicals” is obvious — his anti-Muslim stance” which suggests that white evagelicals are anti moslem. But then you say “I’ll be nice and suggest that “white evangelicals” are very pro-Israel”. Does being pro-Israel mean one is anti moslem?
The very first countries to declare war on the United States were the Muslim Barbary States of North Africa in 1783. That fatwa was imposed on all moslems and never rescinded. Therefore, a constant state of war has existed between Islam and the US since our birth whether or not our people or government recognize it. We may not be at war against Islam but they sure as hell are at war with us. Al-Qaeda most recently declared war itself on the US in 1996 and again in 1998 requiring that all moslems anywhere in the world kill Americans whenever they can.
Maybe those white evangelicals know something you don’t.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/26/2016 @ 9:34 amI see, you get you information from Google not real life. No wonder you’re generally wrong. I assume the reference to All In The Family is a smear of racist bigotry since I say something you don’t like and can’t accept. There is a whole lot of information out there nk, so get your face off Google and Wiki and go live it, see it, learn it.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/26/2016 @ 9:42 amThanks for the link, narciso. It’s a good read, brief and to the point. Picking up GOE (Grand Old Establishment) was a welcome extra bonus.
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 9:43 amI have to assume that any time I question any of your protected classes I will face the bigotry label since it worked so well for Levidicus. That’s always the way the leftists shut down debate so you’ve learned well, nk. Since I respect Patterico and don’t want to be banned from his site I will refrain from commenting on religion or race here.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/26/2016 @ 9:53 amLiviticus has been nk’s Internet eromenous for quite some time, at least 8 or 9 years.
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:03 amFull disclosure. It is my opinion that all, a-l-l, as in every single one, of Trump’s supporters are Archie Bunker type bigots.
nk (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:15 amWell, I have a sibling who loves Trump. He would be the first to remind you that Archie Bunker is a liberal’s caricature of a conservative. And I would be the first to remind him that he is a bigot.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:21 am‘When Mark Mulvoy, then-managing editor of Sports Illustrated, played golf with Cruz in the mid-’90s, the two were forced to take cover when a storm rolled in. After the rain subsided, Mulvoy returned to the green to see a ball that he didn’t remember 10 feet away from the pin. When he asked whose ball it was, Cruz replied, “That’s me.”
“Give me a f—ing break,” Mulvoy told Cruz. “You’ve been hacking away in the . . . weeds all day. You do not lie there.” According to Mulvoy’s recollection to the Post, Cruz responded: “Ahh, the guys I play with cheat all the time. I have to cheat just to keep up with them.”’
Read this carefully. It is obviously a made up conversation.
Steve D (a59e94) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:29 amI don’t believe that all of Cruz’s supporters are Baghdad Bob types, just the ridiculously intransigent ones.
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:30 amPeople don’t talk like that.
Steve D (a59e94) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:31 amSome years ago there was a poll that said something like 70% of Americans considered themselves Christians,
And less than 50% of Americans thought there was such a thing as objective truth….
I put little confidence in polls,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:36 amEven less if it has to do with religious belief.
He would be the first to remind you that Archie Bunker is a liberal’s caricature of a conservative.
He’s also an American caricature of Alf Garnett. Contra Trump, the Chinese aren’t the only ones who “borrow” existing designs and draw work from them.
Archie Bunker, for all his vulgarity, comes across as rather more likeable than the British forerunner.
JP (56a147) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:39 amit was based according to the horses mouth, on norman lear’s father,
narciso (732bc0) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:40 amIn what way is suing a wind farm conservative?
(1)Conservatives have no objection to wind power, any more than we have anything against ethanol. We object only to mandates and subsidies for these, and special exemptions from the crazy regulations that apply to the rest of us.
(2) Trump has no objection to wind farms at all, subsidised or not, so long as they’re not where he has to look at them; in that he is no different from the Kennedy family, whom nobody will accuse of conservatism.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:44 amWhat’s gone unmentioned, and I’m kind of disappointed, how Mike Bloomberg pretending to be a republican, came out in full throat endorsement (as full throated as a lying crap weasel is able) for Hillary Clinton.
“If she doesn’t win the nomination,” he says? If she doesn’t outlast the criminal charges he’s going to Ross Perot the election?
Somebody check his citizenship. There has to be a loop hole to send him back to whatever socialist back water spawn him. And even if his papers are in order, I’d still be in favor of excommunicating that sorry piece of
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:48 amWell it’s not liberal, is it.
Shut up Milhouse. Be obtuse on someone else’s name, knucklehead.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:51 amSaid the windmill salesman.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:53 amThere was no “travesty”, and every person claiming it was one is either dishonest, ignorant, or both. The Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act was the best legislation that could have been passed at that time. It didn’t end up doing any good, because the IAEA review period ended up taking longer than the 90 days the INARA provided, and because even with that much time the numbers to block the Iran deal never materialized, but it was at least an attempt to put a hurdle in front of 0bama. Without it there was nothing hindering him from making whatever deal he liked and waiving the sanctions unilaterally.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:54 amWith all the air that emanates from his mouth, Trump could start his own wind farm. I wonder what creative name he’d call it? Oh, how about “Trump Wind Farm.”
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:56 amanother interesting angle, that doesn’t work in snyder’s favor, but explains some things,
http://reason.com/blog/2016/01/25/the-flint-water-crisis-is-the-result-of
narciso (732bc0) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:58 am344. it was based according to the horses mouth, on norman lear’s father
I don’t doubt it. Johnny Speight, the creator of Till Death Us Do Part, based Alf on his father – an East End docker, according to Wikipedia.
JP (56a147) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:03 amHey, lets power the world with a 5th century invention. I’m not saying windmills are the worst example of government mandated interference in the capitalist system, but I’m hard pressed to think of it’s rival. A three hundred foot pinwheel?
Monuments to liberal virtue signaling. Designed to fit seemlessly into a San Franciscan’s Sesame Street world view.
Cost is no object. Damage to the environment, not even a consideration.
To paraphrase the Talmud, “If a man kills just one government funded wind turbine project, he saves the world entire.”
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:06 amIf I had Donald Trump’s money I’d buy property adjacent to as many wind projects as possible just so I could block them with legal hassles.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:12 amThat’s right. Support for immigration is pretty central to political liberalism (now known as conservatism). Nativism, xenophobia, exclusionism, has always been a feature of the Democratic Party and the left.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:12 amThat is exactly the Trump ive always read about in the NY papers. He is a spoiled child who cant even admit the lies he tells himself.
Cruz would be run out of this race if those stories were about him. Trump gets a pass, because he was on TV. His voters are exactly like Obama voters. Its sad.
There are going to be a lot of people with nothing left of a reputation after Trump burns down their credibility. A few big name blogs, to not name a few. Glad to see Patterico is as smart as ive always thought.
Alec j (def15e) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:14 amThere WAS a “travesty”, and every person claiming it was not one is either a lying D-bag, ignorant lickspittle, or both.
Colonel Haiku (df3a15) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:14 amI don’t get the attack on Milhouse. He made a reasonable point. If you want to use a windmill on your property, with your own money, that’s just an exercise in your liberty. If you want to use it to make money, that’s free enterprise.
That’s totally different from the government taking everyone’s money to subsidize windmills, or enact regulations requiring them.
Trump’s rampant abuse of the legal system is absolutely not conservative either.
But why are we arguing about whether Trump is conservative? Didn’t Trump already flip flop back to pragmatic big government Republican, who is good friends with Pelosi and Schumer and will make such great deals with those friends? He’s angry with Cruz because he represents conservative gridlock instead of making friends with Pelosi and Lindsey Graham? Trump is not pretending to be conservative anymore. Why argue that he is?
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:16 amBut it isn’t a treaty, because the senate has not consented to it. Treating it as a treaty would mean what? Regarding it as US law?! Is that what you want?! Of course not. But there is no third way to treat it. It can only be either law or not law, and it’s clearly not law. You seem imagine that a proposed law that fails is different from a law that was never proposed in teh first place. It isn’t.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:21 amPersonally I am a fan of immigration of law abiding and hard working people who want to remain productive citizens of the USA, speak our language, and follow our laws. I draw the line on visas intended only to import cheaper workers than Americans who are quite available. I also wish educational visas were limited in number and that almost everyone who came for our education system stayed here.
I think people who cannot separate illegal immigration and immigration for welfare benefits from the kind of immigration I like are missing a lot of the issue.
I think Trump’s birther rumor mongering when he was helping Hillary and his birther stuff today are intended to be xenophobic. Why, that guy’s daddy wasn’t an American… he’s not like us. Even though he was an American every single day of his life, he’s just not like us. Trump is so passive aggressive about these issues ‘I’ve heard talk about this’ instead of just being a man and saying what he means to say. I instinctively distrust people who make statements like cowards.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:22 ampapertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:06 am
I know this is just a takeoff on something far more familiar, but not even Tevyeh the Dairyman would mangle things so badly.
(One thing that gets lost in the popularization and translation of the Sholom Aleichem stories is that Tevyeh the Milcheger would often quote a saying – and what he said was maybe all right in itself, but it was a mangling of something somewhat learned, but familiar to many.)
Sammy Finkelman (dbec95) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:23 amDustin, so you would be good with a neighbor building a wind turbine adjacent to your house?
You know I’m in favor of that. Because nothing takes the shine off like dead birds littering the carport.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:28 amNot citizens, we don’t. And excluding other people on racial or religious grounds may be lawful, but it’s anaelig;thema to liberty and unAmerican.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:30 amNot citizens, we don’t. And excluding other people on racial or religious grounds may be lawful, but it’s anæthema to liberty and unAmerican.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:31 amA few years back there was a video showing the effects of a windmill turbine on an adjacent home. The windmill was some distance away but the noise, vibration, and constant flashing light when the sun was behind the blades made the home unlivable for all practical purposes.
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:35 amI think it is a strength of Cruz’s campaign. If he though likewise, and proudly presented his heritage to the American public, it would be.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:36 amExcluding members of a savage belief system of rabid bloodthirsty animals bent on mass murder is common sense, straight up.
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:37 amPutting words in my mouth to willfully imply meanings plainly not presented, that’s a liberal trait you’ll find on all the better Huffington Posts and Media Matters.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:40 amWhich people would those be?
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:47 amTiger, you’ve put your finger on exactly the most used cheap trick on the Internet. It’s Cruz Supporter’s stock in trade, Gerald is also a common practitioner. nk isn’t above it, and you’ll never have to look around for examples. They usually come with your name attached.
It’s the classic straw man attack. Claim so-in-so said such-in-such (which he didn’t) and then attack him for what he supposedly said.
It’s the indelible mark of the charlatan.
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:49 amI put words in someone’s mouth? Lie.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:02 pmTrump’s not going to ban Muslims. He just says things. Perceptive people figured that out quite a while ago.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:09 pmThat’s because you don’t. Naturalized citizens can be senators. And everyone agrees that they can’t be president. That’s two categories, not three. Ropelight’s argument from the text for three categories makes no sense at all. The constitution uses only two terms, not three: “citizen” and “natural born citizen”. There’s nothing at all in the text to indicate that NBC doesn’t mean “citizen at birth”. (I happen to agree that it doesn’t mean that, but my basis for that is not from the text.)
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:09 pmNo, we haven’t. There has never been a president who was not born in the USA.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:11 pmNot since the ones who were born before there was a USA, that is. And they were explicitly excluded from the NBC requirement.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:11 pmI would too, but I would not like this country to be of one common skin color, and I think it is unacceptable to want that.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:14 pmThanks for correcting your mistake.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:15 pmWashington wasn’t born in the USA.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:15 pmNames is not a good way to do it, especially since forged Syrian passports are so easily available (and now ISIS is producing Syrian passports that are indistinguishable from the ones Assad’s government issues). But there’s a very easy way to test for Moslems at the border: have the applicant declare that Mohammed was not a prophet of Allah, or else that he was not the last such prophet. Everyone but Moslems and Baha’is could make the first declaration, and Baha’is could make the second one. Moslems could not in good conscience make either declaration simply for the benefit of being allowed to immigrate to the USA; lying is only justified in order to avoid a significant and unjust penalty, not to gain a benefit.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:22 pmReally? Then how do you explain his explicit words that Leviticus is using to show that he is one?
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:24 pmHow is it unprincipled to quote the man’s words?
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:25 pmWe do not exist for the sake of our country; our country exists for our sake, and when it stops serving us it’s time to throw it out and replace it. Some rather famous people wrote that, some little time ago. Kennedy’s famous statement to the contrary strikes horror in the heart of any decent person.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:30 pmIf they think someone owes them a living, and are prepared to extract that living by force, then they are scum.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:32 pmGotta give him that one.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:38 pmThat’s an outright lie. It was spoken about clearly, including by Cruz, long before Trump got involved.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:43 pmFull disclosure. It is my opinion that all, a-l-l, as in every single one, of Trump’s supporters are Archie Bunker type bigots.
nk, that generalization, which is quite clumsy, reminds me of another one of your generalizations expressed several months ago. A generalization in which you claimed that (to paraphrase) the socio-economic problems of Africa can be traced to the imperialism and hegemony of Europeans, who are presumably mostly or all white. Such a perception is full of willful naivete and smiley-face sappiness because it overlooks all the nations in that same continent of Africa that, although they’ve had little to no influence from those same Europeans, haven’t exactly been burning up the world with socio-political-economic stability, energy, appeal and success.
As for an irony that runs counter to left-leaning (willful) cluelessness of “Africa is a flop due to mean ol’ Western imperialism!!”, I do recall your also stating here some months ago that you thought the next US president should be very much linked by blood/ancestral ties to the USA. Personally, I’d have far more confidence in the common sense of a truly conservative/rightwing person from Africa or Mars occupying the White House in 2017 than a red-blooded American liberal/leftwinger.
Mark (8fe6db) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:50 pmHe wasn’t. Congress had already legislated for a wall way back during the Bush years, when Trump was an open Democrat.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 12:59 pm#368 ropelight,
In past threads, you have accused people of misquoting you, then when people actually provide the quote, you react angrily and call it a trick.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/26/2016 @ 1:01 pmHe’s got no strings
To hold him down
To make him fret, or make him frown
Trump had strings
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 1:22 pmBut now he’s free
There are no strings on thee
Cruz might have talked about immigration. Who cares?
Politicians have been lying about securing the border for 50 years (or more).
Even if Cruz pledged to do what Trump promises, no one will believe him.
He is smeared by his profession.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 1:26 pmThanks for the support, ropelight.
That one glitch about earning citizenship notwithstanding.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 1:30 pmUm, no.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 1:35 pmRIP Abe Vigoda “FISH!”
My favorite episode of Barney Miller had Fish mistakenly eating marijuana brownies, and contrary to temprament, chasing down a bad guy in a roof top to roof top foot persuit.
“Who knew an old guy could jump like that?”, said the suspect.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 1:35 pmHis parents weren’t Southern Baptists at the time of his birth. But then again, isn’t the whole point of (ana)baptists that birth isn’t what counts, what counts is when you’re old enough to know what you’re doing? So by that standard I guess he is a natural born-again Southern Baptist 🙂
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 1:42 pmMilhouse wrote:
(The following are edited excerpts from Wikipedia)
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 2:36 pmMartin Van Buren, the eighth President, was the first President born in the United States. The previous seven were born as British subjects and were not natural born citizens.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/26/2016 @ 2:47 pmWoodrow Wilson’s campaign worker. = your honor,I object.
deciding for the plaintiff where his allegiances lay involves mind reading.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 2:47 pmThe 45th President of the United States
scrutineer (17265e) — 1/26/2016 @ 2:56 pmYa gotta love it. Everybody shoveled but the socialist.
http://admin.americanthinker.com/images/bucket/2016-01/195985_5_.jpg
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/26/2016 @ 2:56 pmArchie Bunker was not a bigot. He was prone to generalizations, but that is not bigotry. Generalizations are generally correct — so long as one recognizes them for what they are, and does not treat them as if they were fixed verities about every member of the classes to which they refer, or continue to rely on them in the face of evidence to the contrary. And Bunker didn’t do that. His assessment of any person started with generalizations, but was modified by all the facts he knew about that person. And that’s exactly how a rational person operates.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 3:22 pmThat would be Massachussets.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 3:24 pmYes, it is “liberal”. Cf the Kennedys. You don’t get more “liberal” than them.
Actually said Patterico, only about two weeks ago. And he was right. So you shut up, knucklehead.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 3:28 pm“Cruz might have talked about immigration. Who cares?
Politicians have been lying about securing the border for 50 years (or more).
Even if Cruz pledged to do what Trump promises, no one will believe him.”
This is a convenient and dishonest metric to simply ignore Cruz’s actual positions, and to simply believe the most recent position from the Donald.
JD (34f761) — 1/26/2016 @ 3:48 pmOn what basis do you claim that the wind farm was government funded?
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 3:51 pmThe meaning was plainly presented. You were defending Trump’s proposal, which included US citizens.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 3:54 pmTrump said it and his official spokesman confirmed it. It’s no straw man.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 3:56 pmIt wasn’t a mistake, since those presidents were specifically excluded from the requirement. And also since they were all born in places that became the USA.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 3:57 pmThe key word there is “rumored”. The evidence is that the rumor was false. Note, however, that he never denied or tried to hide the date of his father’s naturalization, because it was never an issue.
And since when was Breckinridge Long an authority or a reliable source on anything? Let alone an unattributed “New York Tribune article?
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 4:10 pmMark cheats at tiddlywinks.
nk (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 4:17 pmR.I.P. Abe Vigoda
Icy (8ee18a) — 1/26/2016 @ 4:27 pmUp until a few years ago, this Trump character was a Democrat. He admits to have bought politicians’ favors. As recently as 2005, the Clintons were close enough to him that he invited them to his wedding. Now, a few months shy of his 70th birthday, he’s claimed to have turned over a new leaf, and we’re all supposed to bow down to his promises to fix a system which he never objected to, and in fact, a system which he milked.
But if you ask these questions, then you get accused of creating “straw men” and being a secret agent for Canada.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/26/2016 @ 4:28 pmup until last year you could only get breakfast at mcdonald’s in the morning
happyfeet (831175) — 1/26/2016 @ 4:42 pmThis is priceless. It deserves its own post. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/26/fox-news-head-ill-let-donald-trump-walk-before-replacing-megyn-kelly-as-debate-moderator/
nk (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 4:54 pmExhibiting the resolute decision-making skills required of a commander-in-chief, Trump asked the Twitterverse to help him choose whether to attend or not. (Hey, the man loves polls.)
i’m not watching either way
still too many poopers on stage
happyfeet (831175) — 1/26/2016 @ 4:55 pmhappyfeet,
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:01 pmMcDonald’s finally recognized that there’s a good percentage of Americans who walk around all day in their pajamas and flip flops, and so they figured, “Hey, let’s offer them pancakes at 3:30PM!”
i like the idea but not in real life just for when i visit small sleepy towns and want me some free wifi
happyfeet (831175) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:03 pmI think ropelight and papertiger are the same person.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:03 pmThis is getting psychotic.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:11 pmGerald, I’m me and papertiger is someone else. I guarantee it. Ask one of the site’s administrators if you need confirmation.
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:27 pmropelight,
We remember when you stood on the street corner and claimed to be Teddy Roosevelt. So, you should cut Gerald A some slack if he believes you’re pretending to be someone named papertiger.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:34 pmLet’s clear this up once and for all…
http://youtu.be/7F8NFfaHVYY
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:45 pmropelight and papertiger aren’t even remotely close to being the type of person they were just accused of.
JD (34f761) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:46 pmhappyfeet hints at hidden truth. If not for Mexicans driving down wages, Trump supporters would be making more money flipping burgers at McDonald’s. For the short time before they put it out of business through their laziness, surly attitudes, and unsanitary habits.
nk (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:46 pmCrabby old men all tend to sound the same.
nk (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:49 pmSo, Trump is going to skip the debate because he can’t have his Megyn-free safe space.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:51 pmmcdonaldses in chicago are going out of business cause of the minimum wage is so high, lots of them
it’s terrible
happyfeet (831175) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:52 pmmegyn fox is a biased propaganda slut with an agenda not unlike all the other ones
i hate her stupid guts
happyfeet (831175) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:53 pmPretty sure megyn fox is one of those porn stars, so you may be right.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:54 pmoh. good catch Mr. M I did indeed get confuzzled
happyfeet (831175) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:55 pmthis is the one i meaned
happyfeet (831175) — 1/26/2016 @ 5:57 pmIt’s understandable that little Donnie ran to his safe space when threatened by the mean TV lady.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:00 pmthat’s silly Mr. M
what Mr. The Donald is doing is no different than how Team R pulled a debate from NBC
there’s just no reason to indulge agenda-driven propaganda sluts no mores
no reason at all, and especially not if you’re the top billing star of the show
this is a good choice going into Iowa – letting Fox News showcase just how lame all the other contestants are is smart
advantage: Mr. the Donald
happyfeet (831175) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:04 pmThe whole freakout about Megyn Kelly asking questions is really strange. I mean, if you’re intimidated by Megyn Kelly, then how can we send you to sit across the table from Vladimir Putin?
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:06 pmSome of Donnie’s sycophants get angry when you ask them questions, too. They prefer to give lectures, and to have everyone nod in agreement.
his name’s not donnie it’s DONALD
Mr. Trump if you nasty
happyfeet (831175) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:07 pmKaitlyn Jenner has a full head of hair.
Trump has three hairs that he swirls around in a combover.
Advantage: Kaitlyn
(No, I have not gone soft (no, Mark) on trannies. If Bruce wants to call himself Kaitlyn now, why not? There was Jesse James, Evelyn Waugh, and Francis Marion to name three guys with girl names.)
nk (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:10 pmtrannies are poopers
happyfeet (831175) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:10 pmI wasn’t really serious.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:15 pmEvelyn Waugh was a guy?
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:16 pmSome of Donnie’s sycophants get angry when you ask them questions, too. They prefer to give lectures, and to have everyone nod in agreement.
To be fair, the Clintons do the same.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:18 pmYes, Waugh was a guy. Were you a fan of Festus on Gunsmoke? Half his relatives had opposite-sex names — Aunt Theodore, Uncle Ruth ….
nk (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:19 pmTrump is the leading GOE candidate for president of the United States. Megyn Kelly is a talking head on FOX NEWS. Trump won’t attend FOX’s debate if Kelly is one of the moderators.
FOX is willing to deprive the voters and the Iowa caucus participants of an opportunity to see and hear Trump on the eve of caucus night in order to keep Kelly in the public eye.
Trump or Kelly – who is more important for the voters to see and hear at this critical juncture? FOX has made a decision to advance their own interests at the expense of American voters. The network calling itself Fair and Balanced is unfair and biased.
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:20 pmKelly, if free speech means anything.
Steve Malynn (b5f891) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:22 pmhappyfeet,
For decades, Donnie Trump has gone on all the MSM shows and taken questions. Larry King would ask him if he prefers mint chip to pistachio, and Donnie would give a three minute answer. Now all of a sudden, his squirrel nest of a hairpiece gets shocked whenever Megyn Kelly asks him to clarify some of his past remarks about issues that voters are concerned with. And he couches his outrage as if she’s asking him “mean” or “disrespectful” questions. In other words, the guy who is on the one hand trashing Carly Fiorina’s face is on the other hand complaining that the world is not treating him “nicely.”
Some of Donnie’s sycophants do the same thing here. When you ask them questions, they start screaming that you’re “disrespecting” them. That way, they’ve manufactured a reason to avoid answering the questions.
“It’s all about respect!” insists the presidential candidate who is as vulgar and profane as they come.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:24 pmwe’ll see Mr. Supporter
the ratings will tell the tale
happyfeet (831175) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:27 pmhappyfeet,
It’s not about ratings, rather, it’s about truth.
Donnie has gone on all the MSM shows for decades.
He even has volunteered to go on George Stephanopolous’ Sunday morning show several times during the past number of months. It wasn’t required of him—but he did it.
Yet, the one person he makes a stink about, is Megyn Kelly on Fox News. Not George Stephanopolous, the former coffee-maker for the Clintonistas, but little Megyn Kelly.
There’s Putin, ISIS, Iran, China, and North Korea lurking in the world, yet this 6’4″ tall zillionaire is afraid of Megyn Kelly. There’s got to be more to the story than we know, don’t you think?
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:38 pmratings *are* the truth
unless you’re that 2 broke girls piece of crap
i just don’t understand that
happyfeet (831175) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:42 pmPerfect.
Steve Malynn (b5f891) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:42 pmNow, Megyn Kelly has Michael Moore on the air. She’s feeling her oats, mighty Megyn is Woman – watch her rub the noses of Americans in Michael Moore’s hateful propaganda. This is as disgraceful a display of personal pique as I’ve ever witnessed on FOX. She’s every bit a hog as Moore.
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:43 pma piggy piggy HAWWWWG is what she is
happyfeet (831175) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:44 pmWell, her hair extensions aren’t orange.
Simon Jester (2708f4) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:47 pmPlus, she isn’t a lying lying FLABBUCKET BLOWHARD is what she isn’t.
See how dumb the namecalling is?
Simon Jester (2708f4) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:49 pmOh gee, here comes Team Trump, armed with dignity and a deep desire for civil discourse…
“Megyn Kelly is a PIG!”
“Megyn Kelly = Michael Moore!”
Next thing we know, Fox News will be considered an instrument for George Soros.
(LOL)
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:53 pmI also love how his statement claims he wrote “The Art of the Deal.”
Um. Tony Schwartz needed to take a relaxation break again.
Simon Jester (2708f4) — 1/26/2016 @ 6:54 pm421421.happyfeet hints at hidden truth. If not for Mexicans driving down wages, Trump supporters would be making more money flipping burgers at McDonald’s. For the short time before they put it out of business through their laziness, surly attitudes, and unsanitary habits.
Doesn’t sound like you have a lot to offer Trump supporters.
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 1/26/2016 @ 7:00 pmTrump’s decision guarantees he’ll be at the top of every political discussion for the next few days at least till the Iowa results come in.
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 7:04 pmDoesn’t sound like you have a lot to offer Trump supporters.
Laundry tips on how to get sheets sparkling white again after a cross-burning?
nk (dbc370) — 1/26/2016 @ 7:07 pmNaw. Ropelight’s a geeser, and I’m an old fart.
Totally different.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 7:29 pmSpeak for your self Tiger, I’m in my prime.
ropelight (70f603) — 1/26/2016 @ 7:40 pmJesse and Francis are boys’ names. When I see a girl’s name given as Jesse or Francis (or a boy’s name spelt Jessie or Frances) I assume either it’s a mistake or the parents are the same sort of illiterates who misspell names like Antoine and Letitia.
Milhouse (87c499) — 1/26/2016 @ 10:48 pmPraise for Trump: The Art of the Deal
“This reads like Trump unvarnished— vainglorious, combative, ambitious, and unafraid to let us know about it. I found it fascinating all the way. — Mike Wallace
“Trump makes one believe for a moment in the American dream again.”—The New York Times
“Donald Trump is a deal maker. He is a deal maker the way lions are carnivores and water is wet.”—Chicago Tribune
“Fascinating . . . wholly absorbing . . . conveys Trump’s larger-than-life demeanor so vibrantly that the reader’s attention is instantly and fully claimed.”—Boston Herald
“A chatty, generous, chutzpa-filled autobiography.”—New York Post
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:18 pm“Crapola written by a narcissistic blowhard.”–Patterico
Patterico (86c8ed) — 1/26/2016 @ 11:23 pmOr his ghostwriter.
Simon Jester (b40fcd) — 1/27/2016 @ 1:52 amNaw. It’s a unique line of crapola written by a narcissistic blowhard.
Not to be duplicated, even by a room full of monkeys with typewriters.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 1/27/2016 @ 3:59 pmis good book you learn a lot about deals and stuff
happyfeet (831175) — 1/27/2016 @ 4:03 pmTrump wanted to hide behind veterans for his little one on zero debate, and the vets justifiably would rather support a fighter than a guy who got a draft deferment for a hangnail or whatever.
I guess you could say Trump gave himself a draft deferral for the debate, too. Trump sure knows how to avoid a fight.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/27/2016 @ 4:14 pmIAVA is a left wing outfit directed against our interventions in the Middle East, much like their predecessor, 30 years before,
narciso (732bc0) — 1/27/2016 @ 4:15 pmyes yes iava’s are all poopers
tatted up poopers with poor hygiene
happyfeet (831175) — 1/27/2016 @ 4:20 pmYeah, I checked and you’re right. I was wrong and admit it freely.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 1/27/2016 @ 4:37 pm