Thoughts On Christmas Eve
[guest post by Dana]
It’s Christmas Eve, and around here presents are still waiting to be wrapped, the turkey may or may not be adequately thawed, and my efforts to cheat and not make homemade cookies this year was an unmitigated disaster. Note to self: when pre-packaged cookie dough says reindeer “stamped”, consider that a red flag. A picture is not worth a thousand yums, and if it looks like cardboard, it will probably taste like cardboard…
Anyway, I read President Obama’s statement concerning the persecution of Christians throughout the world. On the surface, I wholeheartedly agree with him. But because it’s Christmas Eve, I will graciously refrain from noting a bit of breathtaking irony with his concerns, and will also refrain from looking beneath the surface to point out the sad, but obvious... Suffice it to say, until he looks in his own backyard and backs up his words with corrective action, I am choosing to instead focus on the agreed upon need to pray for Christians who face torture and death because of their faith.
In spite of knowing the risk, these believers who have the immense faith of a mustard seed, refuse to buckle under, refuse to convert, and refuse to deny Him. I don’t know that kind of courage, faith, and resolve. And although I’ve never been tested that way, I don’t need to be in order to know that I would deny belonging to Christ in a hot second if it meant escaping torture and saving my life. Oh, ye of little faith, indeed. Yet, as with most believers, it’s not death that troubles me, it’s the ‘getting there’ – especially if it’s in a land where rampant evil makes itself known at the hands of depraved madmen living in abject darkness, save for the Godly remnant. No one’s life in Christ comes with guaranteed comfort and safety, at least not in this world. But what it does come with is something far deeper, transforming, and lasting than anything mortal man can create: a peace that surpasses all understanding and an eternal life in the presence of God, thus forever absent of evil.
Pastor Su Tianfu of China, where Christians are routinely persecuted and thrive in spite of it, has experienced both mortal fear and divine strength in the face of persecution as have many other saints. So when he claims that faith and love of God cannot be chained, I believe him.
This Christmas I want to stay mindful of the relative ease with which I am able to live out my faith. It’s a luxury not to be taken for granted. And yet no matter where we are and what circumstances we face, the believer everywhere can be assured that God’s promise will forever be a constant: “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” God bless those throughout the world who are courageous enough to claim Christ in the face of terror, and are wholly surrendered to His will, no matter what it may be.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, there are two dogs here excitedly awaiting their uh, freshly baked “reindeer” doggy treats…
–Dana
Happy Christmas Eve!
Dana (86e864) — 12/24/2015 @ 4:31 pmwell there is something to that, dana, if one is not being persecuted on behalf of one’s faith ‘we’re doing it wrong’ but the irony is toxic,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/24/2015 @ 4:43 pmChristmas is winter soltice and the christmas tree is a pagan symbol of fertility. Jesus was born in the spring. bah humbug!
nate (98eda0) — 12/24/2015 @ 5:19 pmnarciso,
Years ago I read about a missionary organization, whose name escapes me, that focused primarily on Somalia. Christians who signed up to go on missions with them did so knowing they would not be returning to the United States. They were told up front that it was a one-way trip and that there would be no return flights to them up. They, their provisions, and of course, Bibles would be dropped off at some appointed place and they were left knowing that they would meet their deaths in the new land at some point in time. It was an article in the old LAT magazine (hard copy), and I wish I could find it again and re-read the article. It did something inside of me knowing that there were believers who were willing to lay down their life for their neighbor. Both literally and figuratively.
Dana (86e864) — 12/24/2015 @ 5:19 pmin the Sudan, which was the extention of the British colonial project in Egypt, they only put you in jail, for now, but then again we have the example of Mariam Ibrahim,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/24/2015 @ 5:25 pmit appears to me, one faith has the right and priviledge in dar al harb, yet there doesn’t seem to be reciprocity,
http://myinforms.com/en-gb/a/20907586-two-more-pastors-arrested-in-sudan/
narciso (732bc0) — 12/24/2015 @ 5:28 pmPerry is a hateful cur
JD (b3cb62) — 12/24/2015 @ 5:47 pmwell he’s less nazguly then usual, but it’s another adventure in category error for our ‘fearless
narciso (732bc0) — 12/24/2015 @ 6:01 pmleader’ a million have been let into europe, a tenth of those have come to the states, an infinitesimal percentage of those, are christians,
what is the real message of the season:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+2&version=NIV
he became a man, bore our sins, and died for them,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/24/2015 @ 6:23 pmwhy does it threaten them so,
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/not-single-christian-church-left-afghanistan-says-state-department
narciso (732bc0) — 12/24/2015 @ 6:26 pmmaybe this has something to do with it:
http://www.contra-mundum.org/schirrmacher/sin.html
narciso (732bc0) — 12/24/2015 @ 6:51 pmThe Christmas tree isn’t a pagan fertility symbol. It’s a symbol of rebirth. The Earth, in its elliptical orbit is farthest away from the sun (at its apogee) on the Winter Solstice. The evergreen Christmas tree is decorated with lights and stars to symbolize the rebirth of a new yearly cycle.
The day after the Winter Solstice days begin to get longer and nights shorter. As Winter gives way to Spring days and nights eventually become equal (the equinox).
The lighted Christmas tree gave comfort and reassurance to pre-scientific people that the annual cycle will repeat itself, Spring will come, crops will grow and be harvested to sustain life for another year.
At the time Christianity was spreading the tradition was already so well established that rather than fight against it the early Roman Church co-opted the Christmas tree and it became part of the celebration of the birth of Jesus. So yes, the evergreen tree decorated with lights had it origins in pagan ritual but it became Christian and remains so today. Cultural Anthropologists call such retained traits a survival.
ropelight (c4a66f) — 12/24/2015 @ 7:04 pmI’m surprised Obama said ANYTHING about persecution of Christians, it’s so out of character and unexpected from him.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/24/2015 @ 7:14 pmtotus, probably slipped it in, this world of the trinity of marx, darwin and freud, where conscience is a forethought, acquisition is all that matters, where power, persons or resources are at stake, is that a better world?
narciso (732bc0) — 12/24/2015 @ 7:24 pmchristianity really started to fade out in the victorian era, as science came up with more sophisticated rationales to treat people like disposable furniture, that goes for darwin and
narciso (732bc0) — 12/24/2015 @ 7:38 pmfreud, marx promised a secular redemption, but in practice it trades in the same method,
pardon for being so philosophical, I guess this does tie in the Agrabah prank from this week, where do we go from here, when we are faced with a antipole mindset to christianity, that animates our adversary?
narciso (732bc0) — 12/24/2015 @ 7:44 pmit also applies to our domestic troubles, as well,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/24/2015 @ 7:51 pmIn Paul’s day it was already true that some loved the world rather than God and had turned away.
From my point of view most of the attention this time of year is not on Christmas but on the Cle celebration of it. The event that we are supposedly celebrating is not center stage, the celebration itself is.
So we grow up with this idea that Christmas is about getting together with family, doing “special” things, exchanging presents, etc.
Believing in false gods brings one to shame and humiliation, false gods are cruel and mock you when they fail you.
For the last 3 months I have been trying to help my parents transition from living in their own house to dealing with the reality that they can’t do that anymore, it has been very hard on them. One can always celebrate God intervening in human history,
One cannot always celebrate having family and friends around and good times had by all.
idea,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/24/2015 @ 8:15 pmGreat post Dana, merry Christmas!
Patricia (5fc097) — 12/24/2015 @ 8:24 pmThanks, Patricia, and Merry Christmas to you, too.
Dana (86e864) — 12/24/2015 @ 8:29 pmmerry christmas, all,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/24/2015 @ 8:31 pmThat was a premature end.
I’ve wondered since becoming a Christian how to get the focus where it should be, think more about what it was like –
Did Mary nag at Joseph for being irresponsible with preparations? Was Joseph fearful or feeling guilty? Did they have those kind of thoughts but God’s grace and power sustained them so they could keep a godly perspective?
Watched a local production of the Messiah on TV, 33 years since I first saw it on a non-date date with my now wife.
As far as persecution and such,yes, Scripture says it should be expected as normal and the bigger question would be why isn’t one encountering it.
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/24/2015 @ 8:31 pmSteve Saint learned years later that the Waodani Indians who killed his father and 4 others in Ecuador saw a group of angels in the sky singing at the martyring, like Stephen in Acts.
I’m counting on special grace to deal with such a time,
Not my (non-existent) special forces training…
well mary certainly recognized the momentousness of the event, although at some point she probably some reservations, joseph I imagine was a little apprehensive,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/24/2015 @ 8:34 pmYes, but how did the recognition of the momentousness intertwine with being “stuck” in a stable? Did she say, “Where is that angel when I need it?”
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/24/2015 @ 8:41 pmAnd in what tone of voice…
like I say, there was probably some reservations as the day came nearer,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/24/2015 @ 8:44 pmMD,
Its a difficult time for all of you, I’m sure. My prayers for you and your parents as it’s got to be darn hard for them to accept their ‘new’ normal. I’m glad they have such a caring son to walk them through this part of the journey. We become their caretakers eventually, and it’s a privilege to have the opportunity to love them back in this way after them having loved we, their
The faster society move and the more distractions there are, the more “Christmas” gets lost in the shuffle.
Dana (86e864) — 12/24/2015 @ 8:50 pmYes, but how did the recognition of the momentousness intertwine with being “stuck” in a stable? Did she say, “Where is that angel when I need it?”
And in what tone of voice…
Let’s remember she was in labor, so I think she may have been just a bit pre-occupied….
Dana (86e864) — 12/24/2015 @ 9:02 pmThanks all,
We’re told to not grow weary and promised grace to accomplish that,
Good news and glad tidings to all peoples,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/24/2015 @ 9:06 pmFor the Savior of the world is come
Heaven’s D-day has come and gone,
The invasion force is on the move.
Oh, you don’t think that for a moment she wasn’t at least tempted to think,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/24/2015 @ 9:09 pm“THIS is not what I was expecting it to be. I thought maybe the angel would provide better accommodations…”
Like, “Yes,I know I am in labor, and all I’ve got is this straw!”
I’m thinking it was a little more reverent than that,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/24/2015 @ 9:13 pm“This is not what I thought it was going to be like, being told I was God’s “favored” one.
Merry Christmas to all. It’s just past midnight EST, the Raiders are in position to win against the Chargers if they can stop the idiot penalties. I’m drinkin’ Bonded Bourbon and eating a late night snack of cheese and crackers. Life is good for this old dog.
Best Wishes to all for a Merry Christmas and a happy and healthy New Year.
ropelight (c4a66f) — 12/24/2015 @ 9:15 pmHerod was after them, remember? Had even tried to suborn the Magi to snitch Jesus out? The stable makes sense in retrospect.
I’m sorry to hear about your parents, MD. All my best wishes for them and for you.
And Merry Christmas, everybody!
nk (dbc370) — 12/24/2015 @ 9:15 pmMD – are you nearby?
JD (34f761) — 12/24/2015 @ 9:54 pmMerry Christmas to all!
Gerald A (949d7d) — 12/24/2015 @ 10:19 pmHello, everyone. I’ve been maintaining radio silence for the past several months, but I’ve been reading the posts and comments.
My Christmas was supposed to be the culmination of a good year. I’m finally getting out of that God-forsaken hell hole Nevadans call Las Vegas. I’ll be taking on a new challenge within my company and leading a new team of engineers. A few other good moments. But it all came crashing down.
On December 8th, my daughter gave birth to her first child — my first grandchild — a baby boy. But from the outset there was trouble. He was nonresponsive. The doctors at the hospital quickly determined his lungs were underdeveloped, and my grandson was sent that night to UCSF Children’s Hospital. My daughter had to stay behind, because she had delivered by c-section, and was not yet discharged; her husband stayed with her.
The next afternoon, I drove the pair from Roseville to San Francisco. As soon as we got to UCSF, we had a conference with the doctors working on my grandson. They had put him on an ECMO machine to keep him alive while running tests. The tests revealed that he was missing most of his lungs — less than one half of one lung was there — and that the pulmonary veins and arteries were so underdeveloped that they couldn’t carry enough oxygen into his organs. The cardiologist said he had only seen one other case so bad in his career, and the other other cardiologists on staff had never seen such a case. There was nothing anyone could do.
There’s a difference between expecting bad news and having all hope removed from you. The prognosis from the doctors devastated my daughter and son-in-law. They talked with each other for a long time and finally announced that they wanted to remove their son from the machine.
We said our goodbyes and prayed. We each got to hold him. The hospital took molds of one of his hands and both his feet, later making plaster casts of them. We called relatives and close friends. Finally, at 9 pm on December 9th, my grandson was disconnected from the ECMO.
My daughter didn’t have the heart to stay until the end. She was already physically and emotionally drained. But the doctors told us he would live only a short while longer. And sometime that night, he died.
This pain is more than I’ve ever felt before. It’s more than the pain of losing my wife 7 years ago. And I vacillate between wanting to crawl into a bottle to numb the pain and hoping that God calls me home soon. But my pain is insignificant compared to the pain my daughter and son-in-law are bearing. How do you go into what should be the happiest week of your life and have it be the saddest possible? How do you go from planning daycare to planning a funeral? How do you go from buying diapers and onesies to buying a casket and a grave? I just can’t fathom the depth of their pain right now.
It is in the fires of adversity that our true nature is revealed, as all that is false and pretended about us burns away. And the more dire the adversity, the truer the nature that is left behind. In that one small aspect, I take some hope. Because I have watched my daughter and her husband comfort, console, and strengthen each other in this. They make each other better people. And I am inspired by that; I know that they will one day be healed, no matter how long it takes.
Despite my sadness, I still am able to wish those around me joy and cheer this Christmas, that they find the peace of Christ and His blessings in the new year. And I ask of those who do pray that they remember my daughter and her husband.
I’m going to go back to lurking now. If anyone wants to communicate with me directly, I give the moderators permission to give them my email address. But I thank you all in advance for your thoughts and prayers.
Chuck Bartowski (a58565) — 12/24/2015 @ 11:19 pmGod Bless You and your family, Chuck Bartowski.
mg (31009b) — 12/25/2015 @ 3:04 amDear Chuck: I am so, so sorry for the sadnesses and losses in your life. You are indeed in the thoughts and prayers of me and my family.
I hesitate to say that there are others who have dealt with such losses, and talking with them might help. Everyone is different, but there is a saying from my favorite author: shared pain is decreased, and shared joy increased. I think it originated from a Swedish proverb: “Shared joy is a double joy; shared sorrow is half a sorrow.”
Thank you for your many fine contributions to this site, and I look forward to seeing them again.
Simon Jester (7f55d0) — 12/25/2015 @ 3:05 amThank you, Simon and mg. When my wife passed, a friend of mine who had lost her husband the year before told me something that didn’t ring true at the time, but now I see what she meant. She said, “It will never be easy, but it does get easier.”
Chuck Bartowski (3c1fad) — 12/25/2015 @ 6:47 amJD @7, yeah but we are commanded to love him anyway. I have even prayed for the
members of ISIS. I can don the same, at least, for Perry.
Jesus is not an easy guy to work for.
Merry Christmas.
Steve57 (626d71) — 12/25/2015 @ 7:00 amI have not mastered all the mysteries of commenting from a smart phone.
Steve57 (626d71) — 12/25/2015 @ 7:03 amChuck, your friend is right. I lost my second-born daughter 3 weeks after she was born, and I can say that, while I have no idea what you or your daughter and son-in-law are going through, the pain will become more manageable. I have only been to 2 funerals. I can’t and won’t go to any more. And I can’t visit my daughter’s grave. But the memory of her is less painful now, 26 years later.
John Hitchcock (283f0d) — 12/25/2015 @ 7:49 amSo sorry to hear that chuck, prayers for your loss.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/25/2015 @ 7:51 amThoughts and prayers for you and your family, Chuck. What you’ve shared is heartbreaking.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/25/2015 @ 7:58 amWhen I was a cardiac surgery resident at Childrens Hospital in LA we had a theory about babies with major heart defects. They were the most beautiful babies and we decided the heart and the facial features developed at the same time. So sorry for your loss.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 12/25/2015 @ 8:04 amIf they’d had reservations they wouldn’t have been in that situation in the first place.
Milhouse (8489b1) — 12/25/2015 @ 8:39 amChuck: <hugs>
Milhouse (8489b1) — 12/25/2015 @ 8:44 amDear Chuck Bartowski,
I can’t find the comment, but several years ago when I was going through a dark year living with horrible physical pain which left me frightened, depressed and emotionally drained, I just happened to briefly mentioned it in passing in the comment section of some post. You left a comment that encouraged me so much. It was about losing your wife. It was a profoundly insightful comment and one I took great hope from. The gist of it was to always realize that everything is in a state of flux and that with the passage of time, things would change and eventually, I would be looking back on the mean season in which I was reeling. I want to pass that back to you: things will never go back to what they were, but with the passage of time, you will know joy again. As will your daughter and son-in-law. God is always working in our hearts, and is always shaping us more into His image. Clearly you know that because only one who has walked through the valley of tears understands that it is in the fires of adversity that our true nature is revealed, as all that is false and pretended about us burns away. It’s a terrible and horrible process, but seems to be one necessary if we claim Christ. And yet it is, somehow, some way, born of love. And you will come through it in greater love and sureness in faith.
My deepest prayers for you and your kids that the jagged edge of pain lessens soon and that hope makes its reappearance. Then you will start to find your footing again. God bless you and your precious daughter and son-in-law.
Dana (86e864) — 12/25/2015 @ 8:50 amChuck,
I am so very sorry. Bless your daughter and son-in-law for drawing together during this tragedy, and bless you for being there for them.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/25/2015 @ 8:51 amChuck,
I also am saddened to know of your loss. If you’ve been lurking, perhaps you saw what I wrote to mg a while back when we learned of the terrible situation in his family. I don’t have more than that, which I don’t remember exactly.
Eph 3:14-19
especially “to know the love of Christ, which surpasses knowledge”
Not an idea of the brain, a concept in the mind, facts about an event remembered,
but somehow the reality of the love of God impacting all of our being.
When God went into action to solve the problems of this world, He did not send someone to do the job for Him,
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/25/2015 @ 10:46 amHe came himself, “dropping in” “behind enemy lines”, to make the decisive blow in the ultimate insurrection against tyrannical rule.
If we look to this life only, hope is drained, if we look to the world to come, we have every reason to be comforted, knowing the time will come when He Himself will dry every tear,
but yes, now we look through a glass darkly and have sadness and tears.
Between illness, deaths, families disrupted, there are many around here that need faith and grace to know joy when unhappiness could overtake us.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/25/2015 @ 10:48 amMD – are you nearby?
JD (34f761) — 12/24/2015 @ 9:54 pm
Lost your email, JD.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/25/2015 @ 10:55 amI am in the very NW corner of Ohio off the first exit of the Ohio Turnpike.
But at present I’m pretty stuck to the immediate area. Email me and I’ll be in touch if I get more freedom to travel.
Thanks for the post. Pity the self-sufficient, they can be far from God.
DNF (ffe548) — 12/25/2015 @ 12:19 pmHow was the tri-tip, MD?
DRJ (15874d) — 12/25/2015 @ 2:22 pmWell, it turned out well, thank you, though it finished earlier than I thought and was a little more done than desired.
But it was tender, and when I slice it and warm it up in gravy it will be wonderful.
Put potatoes, carrots, onions, celery in an oven bag with 3:1 beef stock and cider, put it in a Corningware dish and microwaved it a bit to get it started,
then put the tri-tip on top of the veggies and broth, tied the bag, stuck in at 325,
then seared it in a frying pan with olive oil when done.
I had marinated it over night in my beef burgundy recipe, but did not use that in the cooking, some among us find the taste too strong that way.
Thanks all.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/25/2015 @ 5:05 pmI talked to the butcher at the store, they normally don’t cut them, but there is one customer that routinely asks for special cuts, including tri-tips on occasion.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/25/christ-hidden-in-our-schools-while-muhammad-roams-the-halls-freely/
narciso (732bc0) — 12/25/2015 @ 5:32 pmChuck,
I am so sorry.
Patterico (eac304) — 12/25/2015 @ 8:25 pmPlease accept my deepest sympathies too, Chuck.
nk (dbc370) — 12/26/2015 @ 5:12 amWhat Chuck B. is going through is terrible. But what warms me is how many readers of this blog took the time to write words of support and well wishes.
We are all in this together.
Simon Jester (3a2d2d) — 12/26/2015 @ 10:26 amNarciso, the hysterical Breitbart article you linked to makes many dubious factual claims, but to refute them would take more effort than I want to put in just for a blog comment that will be forgotten tomorrow. But right at the end it makes one that’s such an obvious whopper that it discredits the whole article, and takes no effort at all to refute.
This is such obvious nonsense that it should have alerted any intelligent reader to the fact that the author is a paranoid fool. He even links to an article that he imagines proves his point, when in fact it exposeds him as an idiot. Mohammed’s birthday is on the 12th or 17th of Rabi’ al-awwal, not of December!
Moslems, like Jews, Chinese, and many others, use a lunar calendar, and this lunar month began on the 12th or 13th of December, depending on where you are and how you calculate it. The Jewish month of Tevet began on the 13th, which means Thursday was the 12th, and this Tuesday will be the 17th.
It appears that the Moslem month started a day earlier, so the 12th was on Wednesday 23-Dec, but the United Arab Emirates decided that the official public holiday would be on Thursday instead. Hardly a decision that should raise anyone’s eyebrows. I would guess the reason was to make a long weekend, since Friday is the Moslem day off. In any case, it could hardly be for the purpose of undermining Xmas, since the UAE isn’t a Christian country, and Xmas isn’t celebrated there in the first place. Even if there are Christians there who celebrate it, how could moving the public holiday from Wednesday to Thursday possibly affect their celebrations? The whole thing is just a paranoid delusion that serves to discredit the entire piece to which it’s attached, even if that piece makes some points that are actually valid.
Milhouse (8489b1) — 12/26/2015 @ 5:14 pmIn general, since Andrew Breitbart died his site began degenerating, and I’m afraid it’s now only a step or two above WND. Any time I see anything cited to Bretibart, it raises an alert in my mind, that all facts alleged in the article need to be checked before being given any credence.
Milhouse (8489b1) — 12/26/2015 @ 5:18 pmEven WND used to be a decent site, a long time ago. It was never super-reliable, but one could cite it without being ashamed. Some time around 10-12 years ago it started going crazy, and just got worse and worse.
Milhouse (8489b1) — 12/26/2015 @ 5:20 pmit happens on those dates, this year, however, the point they are making is how one faith is promoted, to the skies and another is stuffed in a box on funk and wagnall’s sill,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/26/2015 @ 5:24 pmHow is that point made by this obvious lie? It just discredits all the other claims they make, most of which I think are unlikely to be true. There might be one or two nuggets in there somewhere, hidden among the dross, but it would be too much work to verify each one looking for them.
Milhouse (8489b1) — 12/26/2015 @ 5:28 pmSuch articles follow a dishonest pattern, pointing to school A at which they’re not allowing some Christian thing or other, and school B at which they’re allowing some Moslem thing or other, as if all schools are run by the same policies, and all schools have the Establishment Clause dial set at exactly the same place. The fact is that some schools are more zealous about the Establishment clause than others, and that will apply equally to all religions, while others are looser and make generous accommodations to all religions. The law requires both reasonable accommodation for all religions and that no government entity be seen to endorse any religion. Some schools will err on one side of that balance and some on the other, and both will be corrected by lawsuits brought by the zealous partisans on each side.
Milhouse (8489b1) — 12/26/2015 @ 5:36 pmnarciso’s linked article (#55) is well worth reading. It’s filled with information which shows pervasive bias against Christianity and favoritism for Islam. Milhouse is just up to his usual nitpicking distractions, making mountains out of molehills and claiming a minor point invalidates the entire article. Pure poppycock.
ropelight (626f1f) — 12/26/2015 @ 5:42 pmthe links are beyond dispute, the interpretation of certain dates, well that’s something else again,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/26/2015 @ 5:48 pmIt’s not a minor point, it’s a serious allegation, and it’s complete and obvious nonsense. This discredits every other claim the article makes. The article is not full of “information”, it’s full of allegations, all of which should now be presumed to be false or dishonest.
Milhouse (8489b1) — 12/26/2015 @ 5:48 pmThere is no “pervasive bias against Christianity and favoritism for Islam”. That is a wicked myth that paranoid lunatics like to spread. It’s almost as ridiculous as Trutherism. Some of it reflects a view that the government ought to promote Christianity, and a hankering for the days when it routinely did so.
Milhouse (8489b1) — 12/26/2015 @ 5:52 pmyet the little sisters of the poor, are forced to act against their principles, when has the converse happened,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/26/2015 @ 5:59 pmI agree with Milhouse. The New Breitbarts, the Spencers, and the Gellers can take their propaganda (which, in my opinion, is just a way for them to make money) and stick it in their victim mentality.
nk (dbc370) — 12/26/2015 @ 6:06 pmThe following excerpt is from the linked article:
Let the article stand or fall on its merits.
PS: I don’t know the date of Muhammad’s birth and according the Milhouse at #59 there is little agreement withing Islam. It’s not only a minor point, its in dispute, and not germane to the article’s theme. Muhammad’s birthday is irrelevant.
ropelight (626f1f) — 12/26/2015 @ 6:08 pmI linked that article a week ago. Eujin Jaela Kim is a Korean — either a Buddhist or, more likely, an atheist Communist. Nothing to do with Islam.
nk (dbc370) — 12/26/2015 @ 6:14 pmInstead of dismissing the fact that Christianity is being given short shrift, by an atheist Communist Korean read the article which you linked last week and which I read then and now.
Here’s another excerpt:
There seems to be a thing or two about Islam. nk, have you read the article?
ropelight (626f1f) — 12/26/2015 @ 6:22 pmit’s a program about a religious holiday, of course there has to be a reference, but reciting the shahada, that’s no pressure on any one,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/26/2015 @ 6:27 pmI read the article. My comment was to your excerpt in your preceding comment.
Where’s the part of the article about my daughter singing Aldeste Fidelis and Silent Night with the choir at her public middle school?
nk (dbc370) — 12/26/2015 @ 6:31 pmand what works domestically is applied abroad as well:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428967/islam-terrorism-jihad-support-provoke
narciso (732bc0) — 12/26/2015 @ 6:42 pmThis is a Christian nation, Christianity is the preferred religion in the US, our government should endorse it at every opportunity. We also respect the Jewish tradition, we regard Jews as our elder brothers, we seek to learn the wisdom of the Rabbis. We allow the free exercise of most other peaceful religions, however we are under no obligation to tolerate hateful, violent, brutal, primitive, or stupid death cults masquerading as religions.
No practitioners of non-Christain religions are forcibly taxed to support the established churches and clerics of Christianity, they are free to practice their particular religions so long as they don’t infringe on the religious freedoms of others.
The problem with Islam is that it preaches world conquest through bloodthirsty jihad. As such it is an abomination and should not be allowed the light of day in the US.
ropelight (626f1f) — 12/26/2015 @ 6:48 pmAtheists are the ones who annoy me. How do you know someone is an atheist? He’ll f___ing tell you first chance he gets!
nk (dbc370) — 12/26/2015 @ 6:52 pmthis might explain the tie in to the calendar,
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/12/vienna-police-warn-european-cities-of-terror-threat-citing-friendly-intelligence-source-video/
narciso (732bc0) — 12/26/2015 @ 7:25 pmRyan is giving himself a convert beard for xmas.
mg (31009b) — 12/26/2015 @ 11:32 pmAnd the republicans handed obama baby parts on a silver platter. Team republican- not for the sane person.
mg (31009b) — 12/26/2015 @ 11:35 pmThere is no “pervasive bias against Christianity and favoritism for Islam”. That is a wicked myth that paranoid lunatics like to spread.
Milhouse, your squish-squish is again getting the best of you.
You recently gave lots of benefit of the doubt to the reasons (ie, the verbal-conceptual strategy) behind liberals ridiculing the Tea Party with “teabagging,” and now you’re giving lots of benefit of the doubt to the strategy of the Islamic world and leftists (if not squishes like you) who love — just love — to create theological/political/cultural relativism or theologocial/political/cultural equivalency between Islam and Christianity.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/27/2015 @ 10:07 amUmmm, I’ve been on this board for a while now, and it seems to me that if you had kept your dumb-a** comment to yourself, I likely wouldn’t be responding.
Bill H (2a858c) — 12/27/2015 @ 9:58 pmHow do you know if a person is gluten free? They will effing tell you first chance they get.
mg (31009b) — 12/28/2015 @ 2:52 amThe constitution specifically and deliberately denies and prohibits that.
Milhouse (8489b1) — 12/28/2015 @ 12:27 pmWhat are you talking about? There is agreement: Sunnis observe it on the 12th of Rabi’ al-Awwal, and Shiites on the 17th. That’s less than the difference between Catholic and Orthodox Xmas.
It’s very germane, because it’s one of a list of allegations the article makes, but it’s so obviously false that its inclusion shows the author to be stupid, dishonest, or both, and therefore that none of the allegations in the article can be trusted.
Milhouse (8489b1) — 12/28/2015 @ 12:31 pmOK, Milhouse, you say, The constitution specifically and deliberately denies and prohibits that.
Let’s go step by step: prove it.
ropelight (3f500f) — 12/30/2015 @ 11:49 am