The Usefulness Of Donald Trump, For Better Or Worse
[guest post by Dana]
So, Donald Trump. He continues to lead in the national polls, drawing in more supporters as he pushes the envelope with his proposals. He also continues to ratchet up panic in the GOP donor class as they plot and plan just how to topple him. And it can be said that he fairly owns the media as he exasperates journalistse unable to take him down, or at the very least, shame him. And worse, to their chagrin they find themselves bound to him, reporting on his every move and every word said lest they get left out. While celebrity and wealth have insulated him like no other candidate in the current GOP pack, it has also given him extraordinary power over a media that is used to being in the driver’s seat and setting the rules. Rules which Trump has mocked and blown open.
With that, in spite of his recklessness and lack of character, David French discusses Trump’s usefulness and the Overton Window.
[T]he “window” refers to the range of acceptable political discourse on any given topic. As the Mackinac Center explains, “the ‘window’ of politically acceptable options is primarily defined not by what politicians prefer, but rather by what they believe they can support and still win re-election.” The key to shifting policy lies not so much in changing politicians but in changing the terms of the debate. In other words, “The window shifts to include different policy options not when ideas change among politicians, but when ideas change in the society that elects them.”
French notes the Democrats’ skill in exerting pressure on the “window” as they effortlessly change and shape the national debate on any number of issues. For instance, consider gay marriage and transgenderism, and compare societal attitudes and even current laws on these issues in the past two decades. He also notes the current push by the left to move the national debate from gun control to an outright ban on guns. This shift was reflected in President Obama as we saw him go from reassuring leery Americans that he didn’t want to take their guns to his now public admiration for Australia’s gun confiscation program.
Given the left’s stranglehold on the national conversation and debate, it’s been fascinating to watch the bellicose Trump bulldoze the “window” like no other GOP candidate:
On key issues, he didn’t just move the Overton Window, he smashed it, scattered the shards, and rolled over them with a steamroller. On issues like immigration, national security, and even the manner of political debate itself, there’s no window left. Registration of Muslims? On the table. Bans on Muslims entering the country? On the table. Mass deportation? On the table. Walling off our southern border at Mexico’s expense? On the table. The current GOP front-runner is advocating policies that represent the mirror-image extremism to the Left’s race and identity-soaked politics.
Critically, the Overton Window was smashed not by a politician but by a very American hybrid of corporate/entertainment titan — a man rich and powerful enough to be immune to elite condemnation and famous enough to dominate the news media. How many people can commandeer live television simply by picking up the phone and calling in? How many politicians can cause Twitter to detonate seemingly at will?
While many of Trump’s actual proposals are misguided, nonsensical, or untenable, by smashing the window, he’s begun the process of freeing the American people from the artificial and destructive constraints of Left-defined discourse.
In other words, the audacious carnival barker has proven useful to the body politic, and according to French, the substantive GOP candidates will likely benefit from his window smashing as well.
But just because he has been useful to the conversation at large, it does not mean that he is the best candidate for the presidency. In the same way that Darth Trump asked, How stupid are we?, we too should be asking that very question.
(h/t to JVW for the David French link)
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (86e864) — 12/11/2015 @ 7:12 pmI read the French piece a couple of days ago and enjoyed it. It is in many ways a remarkable piece, but I think he misses the point. Trump did not make this world; he is simply the messenger for a disenfranchised electorate who yearn for an un-making of this world. French tell us “Trump should not rule the world he has made.” But why not? Who better? (Yes, I know, Cruz and maybe Fiorina, but who else?). I don’t want to be too tough on the guy, though. He got me thinking.
Have you ever heard of “institutional syndrome?” Wikipedia describes it as “deficits or disabilities in social and life skills, which develop after a person has spent a long period living in mental hospitals, prisons, or other remote institutions. In other words, individuals in institutions may be deprived (whether unintentionally or not) of independence and of responsibility, to the point that once they return to “outside life” they are often unable to manage many of its demands.” I cannot think of a better metaphor for the fear Donald Trump’s throwing off the chains of political correctness has instilled in Republican pols and pundits, though not so much in party’s rank and file. Our party, it seems, is made up of influential individuals who are terrified of leaving their cells of political correctness and they happily join together in choruses of condemnation for candidate Trump and those few individuals who refuse to condemn him. Maybe these same critics are right: Trump will destroy the party as we know it. If this is who we are and if Trump is all that it will take to destroy the party, I see it as no big loss.
What is up with this ritualistic self-flagellation? Where does this reflex come from? Somehow, Cruz is viewed as a man of great self-control, if not calculation, when he declines to jump on the bandwagon. This is giving Cruz far too much credit. His behavior is the normal one. It is the rest of the lot, with their finger pointing and sermonizing, whose behavior is extraordinary – extraordinarily foolish. Their clucking is invariably worse than any of Trump’s overstatements. Moreover, this self-destructive behavior is entirely asymmetrical. You never hear clucking from the Left in response to the bluster of Obama, Clinton, Reid or Pelosi. Never. Besides, are these prigs really a step up from this boor?
ThOR (a52560) — 12/11/2015 @ 7:47 pmI’m beginning to feel like Randle McMurphy when he realized that his ward-mates were institutionalized voluntarily and that they had little interest in returning to the world outside. I have, myself, described Trump as wrenching open the “Overton Window,” but this intellectualization unfairly elevates the shameful behavior of complicit Republicans who, as far as I can tell, are legion. There is nothing – and I mean NOTHING – that Trump has done to merit the opprobrium directed at him by conservatives who should know better. Donald Trump is “speaking truth to power” and polls reflect it. He may lack the art and intellect of the eminently truthful Cruz, but that only makes his words more persuasive to ordinary Americans. It is not surprising that the power he is speaking to is shitting bricks. What is surprising is that otherwise reasonable conservatives are looking to Big Nurse for their cues.
Dana, I liked the Star Wars analogy.
ThOR (a52560) — 12/11/2015 @ 7:50 pmSomebody please close that window; it’s sucking all the air out of the room. The combover is providing a smoke screen for Hillary who is just cruising along, is what he’s doing. While all the media wants to report about the real GOP candidates is their reaction to the new stupid thing Trump just said.
nk (dbc370) — 12/11/2015 @ 7:52 pmIt looks like your moderation filter doesn’t like my diction. Let me tone it down:
I read the French piece a couple of days ago and enjoyed it. It is in many ways a remarkable piece, but I think he misses the point. Trump did not make this world; he is simply the messenger for a disenfranchised electorate who yearn for an un-making of this world. French tell us “Trump should not rule the world he has made.” But why not? Who better? (Yes, I know, Cruz and maybe Fiorina, but who else?). I don’t want to be too tough on the guy, though. He got me thinking.
Have you ever heard of “institutional syndrome?” Wikipedia describes it as “deficits or disabilities in social and life skills, which develop after a person has spent a long period living in mental hospitals, prisons, or other remote institutions. In other words, individuals in institutions may be deprived (whether unintentionally or not) of independence and of responsibility, to the point that once they return to “outside life” they are often unable to manage many of its demands.” I cannot think of a better description of the fear Donald Trump’s throwing off the chains of political correctness has instilled in Republican pols and pundits, though not so much in party’s rank and file. Our party, it seems, is made up of influential individuals who are terrified of leaving their cells of political correctness and they happily join together in choruses of condemnation for candidate Trump and those few individuals who refuse to condemn him. Maybe these same critics are right: Trump will destroy the party as we know it. If this is who we are and if Trump is all that it will take to destroy the party, I see it as no big loss.
What is up with this ritualistic self-flagellation? Where does this reflex come from? Somehow, Cruz is viewed as a man of great self-control, if not calculation, when he declines to jump on the bandwagon. This is giving Cruz far too much credit. His behavior is the normal one. It is the rest of the lot, with their finger pointing and sermonizing, whose behavior is extraordinary – extraordinarily foolish. Their clucking is invariably worse than any of Trump’s overstatements. Moreover, this self-destructive behavior is entirely asymmetrical. You never hear clucking from the Left in response to the bluster of Obama, Clinton, Reid or Pelosi. Never. Besides, are these prigs really a step up from this boor?
I’m beginning to feel like Randle McMurphy when he realized that his ward-mates were institutionalized voluntarily and that they had little interest in returning to the world outside. I have, myself, described Trump as wrenching open the “Overton Window,” but this intellectualization unfairly elevates the shameful behavior of complicit Republicans who, as far as I can tell, are legion. There is nothing – and I mean NOTHING – that Trump has done to merit the opprobrium directed at him by conservatives who should know better. Donald Trump is “speaking truth to power” and polls reflect it. He may lack the art and intellect of the eminently truthful Cruz, but that only makes his words more persuasive to ordinary Americans. It is not surprising that the power he is speaking to is sh***ing bricks. What is surprising is that otherwise reasonable conservatives are looking to Big Nurse for their cues.
ThOR (a52560) — 12/11/2015 @ 7:53 pmmaybe but the press’s willingness to go squirrel, is limitless, there are four times as many pieces about Trump or LePen’s reaction, then there are to the events in San Bernardino, Paris,
Molenbeek and most recently Geneva,
recall when Obama shut the government down, they blamed cruz for trying to throw a spanner in the works, all the while they were hiding how Obamacare was blowing up, at the launch pad,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/11/2015 @ 7:59 pmMight be the most intelligent piece of macro analysis I have read on this site in … since day 1.
Mark Steyn has said similar that for Conservatism to win it must start changing the Culture, not the other way around. It starts by making the taboo not so much and dealing with the crap.
Trump, for better or worse, is able to do that.
Rodney King's Spirit (2b29eb) — 12/11/2015 @ 8:20 pmFwiw, I think there is merit in all of the above.
The Trump phenomenon is what it is because of the world that others made.
If people still can’t figure out that many conservatives have voted with their opinion polls and have turned their backs on the “establishment” then they don’t deserve to be elected rat catcher.
Fighting Trump directly is suicidal imo,
If one wants to win as a non-Dem they need to demonstrate why they are better than him without a negative word.
I agree that in one way Cruz is not doing anything especially brilliant, except that where there is a lack of common sense, common sense looks brilliant.
But I am no political scientist, just a person who thinks the basic principles should be:
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/11/2015 @ 8:39 pmRead the bills before they are voted on
Quit spending more and more money than we have
Fed employees and elected officials should be subject to every law and regulation the rest of us
us are.
Thor – I’m beginning to feel like Randle McMurphy when he realized that his ward-mates were institutionalized voluntarily and that they had little interest in returning to the world outside.
Perfect.
scrutineer (b7d257) — 12/11/2015 @ 8:41 pmIn the same way that Darth Trump asked, How stupid are we?, we too should be asking that very question.
We’re quite stupid because of who we’ve put into the White House. And not just once, but twice. And we’re stupid for giving far too much leeway and smiley faces to a dishonest scrounge like Hillary, much less those very similar to her.
We’re also stupid if instead of fearing that Trump will be, or is, too liberal, we wring our hands on whether his non-politically-correct, generally right-leaning comments are outrageous or not. (However, the non-ideological aspect of him that should make us skittish is his overly thin skin—although Dingleberry Barry has that same quality in spades too.)
Mark (f713e4) — 12/11/2015 @ 9:58 pmI think ThOr is spot on. Trump is the result of a Western culture grabbing at straws to remain relative. I don’t know if Trump is the answer, but he’s at least asking the questions.
I do know, though, that enlightened people are looking for a chance to say enough is enough. I do know that what has been in place for eight years is a media-driven hope-and-change facade. I do know that the traditional media is no longer relevant and everything it says is nothing but pleas for relevance as the world has left it behind.
I do know that the Western culture that invented the Gutenberg press, the steam engine, the Salk vaccine, the iPhone and Democracy will win when we start believing in it again.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 12/11/2015 @ 10:07 pmTrump’s smashing the “window” is only useful if other politicians jump through. So far, none seem so inclined. So, it will be Trump carrying the banner. Everyone else is too tentative. Or, as the general said “a pussy.”
Jim (a9b7c7) — 12/11/2015 @ 10:08 pmReally? Because I absolutely loathe political correctness and still refuse to support Trump. Why? Oh, right, because he is a loudmouth liberal with zero coherent policy (to the point where he constantly contradicts himself) and has a nasty habit of whining like a baby every time he’s criticized or asked a difficult question. Who does that remind me of? Oh, right: Barack Obama.
I hope you realize that such a statement means you forfeit your right to complain in 2017 should Hillary be sworn in. Fun fact: if Trump is the nominee, he will lose. He is probably the only candidate who could actually lose to Granny at this point.
Normal? HAHAHAHAHA! It is in no way normal for someone who built his reputation on denouncing RINOs to behave the way Cruz has in regards to Trump. Cruz looks brazenly stupid picking fights with Rubio while continually giving Trump a pass. We’re all aware of Cruz’s hope to woo Trump supporters, but he grovels and without even a remote understanding of dignity. No one says Cruz has to pile on Trump if he doesn’t want to, but at this point, the only thing he hasn’t done is lick Trump’s boots. Look no further than that recent incident of him being critical of Trump during a private fundraiser and singing a different tune when it ended up being reported. How did that song and dance go again? Oh, right: “The media took me out of context, this is what the establishment wants, and Trump is cool.” Pathetic. Cruz is officially a bigger squish than Jeb.
So, not rolling over for a rival candidate is foolish? Do you understand how elections typically work?
Not even remotely close, but hey, thanks for trying.
So, because the Left doesn’t criticize Obama and the other idiots, it’s wrong for Republicans to criticize Trump? That’s your argument? Wow, just wow. A person could get whiplash from such a deflection.
This point is also important in light of the next selected statement.
Except for those times he mocked POWs, whined on Twitter about getting asked tough questions, insulted those who disagreed with him, deflected every single time he was asked to provide policy specifics, contradicted himself repeatedly, openly supported liberal policies (including single payer, funding for Planned Parenthood, and stripping away 2nd Amendment rights of those on the no-fly list), and generally being a big whiner. (You’d think a self-proclaimed tough talker wouldn’t whine so often.)
Y’see, the funny thing is, Trump supporters repeatedly demonstrate their own hypocrisy. You highlighted it perfectly with your little “but the Left doesn’t criticize Obama” hectoring. I’m sure we’ve all heard the “Rubio can’t be the nominee because of his record on immigration” line. It’s worthy of criticism, to say the least, but coming from Trump supporters or those open to his candidacy, it’s downright laughable when you consider Trump’s antics during this campaign, as well as his support of liberal candidates and positions. If Rubio or any of the other candidates had done a fraction of the crap that Trump has pulled, they’d be demonized by self-proclaimed conservatives like yourself.
Wait, now the polls matter? And here I was told they didn’t after the whole Bevin situation. Boy, you need a scorecard to keep track of when the polls matter and when they don’t. Does this mean that the poll showing Cruz pulling ahead of Trump in Iowa counts? Eh, probably not. Cruz’ll probably demand a do-over on that just to placate Trump.
I’m an ordinary American, and I believe Trump is full of it and not fit to be president. If anyone out there is wondering why, then they clearly didn’t read the above.
In summation, Trump is to the 2016 election what Christine O’Donnell and Todd Akin were to their Senates race. Primary voters ate up what they had to say, and we all know the results. After Obama’s inept handling of the country, I do not want to live under four years or more of Hillary. That option, however, will be quite viable with a clueless buffoon like Trump as the nominee.
tops116 (d094f8) — 12/11/2015 @ 11:25 pmSo the question you seem to blanch at asks itself: what happens if Trump is the nominee? Do you stay home? Do you just simply throw in the towel and vote Sir Hillary? It’s pretty plain you don’t like Cruz, so who do you support?
Bill H (2a858c) — 12/12/2015 @ 12:14 ambill’s wife has no chance. Quit dreaming, Americans don’t want democratic old men.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:49 amSooner or later Trump will pass the political baton to Cruz/West 2016.
This man is a American hero. He would be a great addition to Cruz in the fight to get America back.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:56 amhttp://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/11/steve-king-keeps-immigration-climate-change-trade-deals/
If trump does win, I hope it ends the life of the lying, traitorous republican party. These people hate America more than they hate bill’s wife.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 3:03 amcheers and peace out.
yes yes Mr. Trump reminds me of Racer X coming back to help poor hapless Speed Racer after Speed crash em upped the mach 5
ooh look there’s a monkey in the trunk
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:06 amI think Kimberly Strassel has put a finger on it and since it is behind a subscription wall, I will summarize.
Barack Obama has done plenty of damage to the country, but perhaps the worst is his determined destruction of Washington’s guardrails. Mr. Obama wants what he wants. If ObamaCare is problematic, he unilaterally alters the law. If Congress won’t change the immigration system, he refuses to enforce it. If the nation won’t support laws to fight climate change, he creates one with regulation. If the Senate won’t confirm his nominees, he declares it in recess and installs them anyway. “As to limits, you set your own,” observed Dan in that editorial. This is our president’s motto.
We are living in the post-Obama world where presidents are operating without Constitutional limits. Obama gets away with this because he is half-black and everyone knows blacks do not behave the way the rest of us do. I am obviously being sarcastic here, if any leftists are reading this. The left does not expect Obama to act as previous presidents have done, or even as he said he should behave a couple of years ago when he still had an election to win.
Nobody will try to impeach Obama though a white president would have been impeached several years ago for this behavior. An attempt to bring articles of impeachment would raise a firestorm of racism accusations and riots across the country, especially in cities run by Democrats where violent death stalks the street every weekend.
Now, we have a new normal in politics and Trump has merely adopted the rhetoric and behavior of the Obama precedent.
Mr. Obama doesn’t need anyone to justify his actions, because he’s realized no one can stop him. He gets criticized, but at the same time his approach has seeped into the national conscience. It has set new norms. You see this in the ever-more-outrageous proposals from the presidential field, in particular front-runners Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.
Mrs. Clinton routinely vows to govern by diktat. On Wednesday she unveiled a raft of proposals to punish companies that flee the punitive U.S. tax system. Mrs. Clinton will ask Congress to implement her plan, but no matter if it doesn’t. “If Congress won’t act,” she promises, “then I will ask the Treasury Department, when I’m there, to use its regulatory authority.”
The uproar about Trump is artificial and orchestrated by the left, which controls most of our “news” and entertainment media (But I repeat myself.)
As another example, Justice Scalia, in the Supreme Court case on Fisher vs Texas, mentioned academic “mismatch” and the media exploded in indignation. There is a considerable serious research on mismatch created by affirmative action and the effect is has on poorly prepared “students of color” who are currently demanding “safe spaces” in elite colleges where they are failing.
Scalia has been attacked as racist for mentioning this phenomenon. It isn’t just Trump who is being attacked by the left.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:15 amGreat posts and comments. It will be interesting to see what Cruz will do now that Trump has attacked him. I think this is a big moment for Cruz’s campaign and his future. We’ll soon see if he’s ready.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 7:24 amAs Mike K shows, Trump and Obama are looking more and more alike when it comes to process, that is, their willingness to say and do anything with and for power. Cruz believes in Constitutional limit’s but thas almost quaint now that we’ve had Obama.
Also, I wonder what Trump really thinks about gun control. It’s hard for me to think any East Coast big city dwellers completely support in the Second Anendment.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 7:31 amThey’ve been taking lessons from Putin. As has Hillary. If given the chance, they’ll take lessons from Stalin. And the Republicans who got themselves elected to the public trough, pardon me, Congress, on the promise that they’ll be our Saviors, have been giving them every chance.
There have been a lot of Presidents who have gotten things done, without help, and even against strong opposition. But they did it with class and earned their number in the Presidential roster. With class. Which the above-mentioned have none.
nk (dbc370) — 12/12/2015 @ 7:55 amBreitbart’s ghost stalks the bully pulpit.
Our two-party system has been codified into law, so entrenched is it that the Republic is effectively dead with Kabuki theatre entertaining our post-literate bore hole that passes for a culture.
Trump/Cruz might be the best we can hope for at this point. A civil war of citizenry versus government can no longer be avoided. Fwance leads the way forward.
DNF (755a85) — 12/12/2015 @ 8:06 amIf trump does win, I hope it ends the life of the lying, traitorous republican party. These people hate America more than they hate bill’s wife.
cheers and peace out.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 3:03 am
If he is nominated and loses, it will be because the power brokers in the Republican party didn’t support him. And if Hillary wins, I hope it ends the life of the lying, traitorous republican party too.
When we start the new conservative party, all I ask is that no one named Bush is allowed in it.
AZ Bob (34bb80) — 12/12/2015 @ 8:07 amtrump is very very trashy he’s like inherently trashy but also trashy in a quintessentially post-america failmerican way whereas cruz is trashy in a self-promoting hyper-entitled harvard boi with a goldman sachs trophy hooch kinda way (gross)
hillary’s trashy like a criminal and an angry old lady and also she looks like she has that not so fresh feeling all the time
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 8:07 amTrump/Cruz might be the best we can hope for at this point.
bingo!
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 8:11 am16. To those who have ears, hear: The Vichy Democrats enable the Progs at every turn. Forgiveness will not be available, ever.
DNF (755a85) — 12/12/2015 @ 8:13 amEven in Illinois, my vote will make a difference this time. It will not be for Mark Kirk. Not in the primary and not in the general.
nk (dbc370) — 12/12/2015 @ 8:15 am12. Note to the tyros: Brevity is the soul of wit. TD:LR.
DNF (755a85) — 12/12/2015 @ 8:18 amAh, TL:DR, silly me.
DNF (755a85) — 12/12/2015 @ 8:19 ammy friend d says he thinks squishypickles has a chance at holding on
it’s not really on my radar personally
he’s one of them what takes his policy cues from Meghan’s coward daddy wherever possible, but that’s a disease where you have to go to the source if you want to stop it
replacement whores just like Kirk are lined up out the door
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 8:22 amHow stupid are we? Pretty stupid. We elected Barack Obama twice. When a two bit race hustler from Chicago is the best you can do you are truly stupid.
f1guyus (9cbd15) — 12/12/2015 @ 8:57 amGood. It means my vote will count.
nk (dbc370) — 12/12/2015 @ 9:00 amyes yes your vote’s important cause of that’s how they pick the winners
i feel like i need to know who Chris Stapleton is but it just doesn’t feel like a top priority for today
today i’m seasoning a cast iron pot what i plan on using a lot next year
it’s a big day
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 9:04 amFill that pot with water, step up in and turn the heat up to the high setting. Enjoy the ride!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/12/2015 @ 9:18 amI trusted akin for all his awkwardness and o’donnell more, were not her appearances on real time to do more than preach to the converted, trump I have more doubts about.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/12/2015 @ 9:24 amNote to Minnesotans… Your state just incurred its 10th arrest of a mook who was attempting to join ISIS. Hunting season is officially open, no limits.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/12/2015 @ 9:26 amNobody will try to impeach Obama though a white president would have been impeached several years ago for this behavior.
A few months ago I was speaking with a person whose politics I wasn’t totally sure about. However, he seemed like a fairly coherent, reasonable, down-to-earth individual. But maybe not.
I mentioned to him in a casual conversation that I strongly disliked Obama. The person at first didn’t say anything, but then remarked that Obama won the election because of support from blacks. I qualified that by saying Obama got much of black America’s support not just because of (or not necessarily even due to) his race, but because he’s a liberal. I said if Obama were a staunch conservative running against a staunch white liberal, most blacks would have totally discounted aspects of race/ethnicity/gender/sexuality/religion/nationality and voted for the white liberal.
That person then retorted — in sort of a non-sequitur way — that he didn’t like Mitt Romney because of (get this) he didn’t treat his dog nicely. I wanted to laugh but didn’t.
The core of all of this — and various resulting problems thereof — is the concept of “know thyself.” To know not just one’s own ideological biases, but those of other people too.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/12/2015 @ 9:33 amFill that pot with water, step up in and turn the heat up to the high setting. Enjoy the ride!
trickery
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 9:35 amSo Trump is a political minesweeper?
Karl Lembke (cd9062) — 12/12/2015 @ 9:36 amIf trump does win, I hope it ends the life of the lying, traitorous republican party. These people hate America more than they hate bill’s wife.
cheers and peace out.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 3:03 am
And this is why we fail.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/12/2015 @ 9:58 amnonono we fail cause too many poopers
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 10:07 amThe sentiment is overdrawn, stabbing knives go in the back only for certain candidates.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/12/2015 @ 10:12 amYour correct Kevin M, it is all my fault.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 10:38 amlmmfao @ your education.
You just HAD to mention that….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt-AaiJlDkE
Bill H (2a858c) — 12/12/2015 @ 10:54 ama little off topic, but Dinesh D’Souza does a great service in exposing the sjw aspect of progressivism in this vid…
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/360535.php
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/12/2015 @ 11:01 amthose were great, Bill H!!!!!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/12/2015 @ 11:06 amNothing quite like self-awareness. I’m assuming that dude didn’t know about Obama’s affinity for dog. Certainly the only reason he could make such a statement with a straight face. It’s a shame you didn’t school him. It’s right there, in one of his autobiographies.
Doesn’t really matter, though. He would have found another insubstantial reason to hate on Romney. There’s always the binders full of women.
Bill H (2a858c) — 12/12/2015 @ 11:10 amYah, saw that a little earlier. D’Souza went nuclear on that weenie. Perhaps he’ll think before the next time he tries to go SJW on someone of D’Souza’s caliber.
It’s a funny series. I’m a little surprised it’s still available.
Bill H (2a858c) — 12/12/2015 @ 11:16 ami’m a have to share that Mr. H
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 11:19 amThe right should have hated him for that. It was repulsive to watch a Republican candidate pander to feminists at his own convention.
The Overton Window moves left, mainstream conservatives slavishly move left with it, and then they wonder why they always lose. Once you accept the progressive moral frame, the only thing left to negotiate is how quickly and how far left you’re willing to go.
scrutineer (b7d257) — 12/12/2015 @ 11:36 amBill H,
Those are hilarious ads. There are several more here. Is that a dealership in Sandy UT? Do they still do these ads?
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 11:47 amHave you seen the Samurai and Chaparone versions of Trunk Monkey? These are really hilarious.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 11:51 amPerhaps. I still tend to believe more was made of that statement in the press than was actually said. It was more bad expression than bad policy. Oh well, it’s a little late to debate that point now. Romney is out and I really doubt he’s getting back in.
Bill H (2a858c) — 12/12/2015 @ 11:57 amI don’t really know where the dealership is. I guess 10 seconds of Googling would reveal the answer, just never thought about it.
Bill H (2a858c) — 12/12/2015 @ 12:01 pmSorry. I thought maybe you knew about the Trunk Monkey ads because you lived in the area where they are aired. I Googled it and it’s in Sandy, Oregon. “Family owned and operated since 1967.”
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 12:05 pmJuuuust got back from the site. Yah- the Portland area. I’m in San Diego- a little south of there.
Bill H (2a858c) — 12/12/2015 @ 12:09 pmTrump will do for the republican party what hitler did for the nazi party!
nate (62e348) — 12/12/2015 @ 12:25 pmI love that Darth Trump video. I have watched it three times all the way through.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/12/2015 @ 12:32 pmRepublicans are so arrogant and pompous they refuse to back Cruz. Hard to imagine they hate him more than trumples.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 12:45 pmMr. Senator Cruz has never axed me for my vote and i do not belieber he has any intending of axing
therefore he does not get to know about the breakfast sandwiches i found
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 12:48 pmObama ate dog.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/12/2015 @ 12:55 pmit’s very very deeply unamerican to eat things what you can’t buy with food stamps
he is a very bad president
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 1:24 pmI like the part with the Trump cufflinks that are sold at Macy’s.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 1:30 pmMy son cracks up at all the stuff where he’s mocking Carson. I had to explain to him why Trump kept saying that he had done all these terrible things. “I hit somebody in the face with a padlock! Then I tried to stab a friend of mine, whose name was Bob! He was a friend but now he’s a member of my family!”
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/12/2015 @ 1:42 pmTrue. That’s only funny if you know the details about Carson’s early years.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 1:49 pmI have a pretty good working knowledge of what happened in Germany during that era, Nate. I’m going to disagree on that.
Bill H (2a858c) — 12/12/2015 @ 1:52 pmIf you had told me a year ago that the leading “Republican” candidate would be more chaotic and lawless, intellectually lazier, less self-aware and more and egotistical statist than Barack Obama, I would have given you long odds against.
To riff off of Popehat, it’s effing Calvinball with Trump.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/12/2015 @ 1:54 pmTo riff off of Popehat, it’s effing Calvinball with Trump.
i don’t think i like your tone mister
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 1:55 pmGuy Benson:
I see people arguing that the Trump phenomenon is driven by frustration with Washington and its big government ways. This may be true for a small minority of people. But when huge numbers of people would be fine with government-run health care or race-based affirmative action as long as the orange-haired Dear Leader approves, you have a cult of personality, as Benson says.
And yet there are people who say Trump is great for “conservatism.” Which, if true, means “conservatism” is just a label for a hodgepodge of positions with no coherent unifying principle.
I no longer think of myself as a conservative but rather a classical liberal. My unifying principle is minimal governmental intrusion into people’s affairs — only that necessary to establish a rule of law and protect us from aggression from within and without.
Trump’s philosophy has nothing to do with that.
I have decided not to blog about Trump any longer, at least until the end of the year. You will notice that I have no posts about Trump recently. This is because (by and large) I think people talk about him too much, depriving better candidates of oxygen. It is also because I have concluded that arguments, logic, and evidence do not matter to Trump supporters. Only “winning” matters. If, as I fervently hope, Cruz wins in Iowa, the whole rationale for people to support Trump evaporates.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/12/2015 @ 1:56 pmI know, right? As the kids say.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/12/2015 @ 1:57 pmhe’s trump he’s trump he’s trump
he’s in my head
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:01 pmI have decided not to blog about Trump any longer, at least until the end of the year. You will notice that I have no posts about Trump recently.
—-Patterico
How ironic because this has been a very insightful thread. You may want to revisit your decision again, Patterico.
AZ Bob (34bb80) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:24 pmthe end of the year isn’t really all that far away Mr. Bob
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:25 pmDana has a different view and I told her that’s fine. People seem to like this post so she’s probably right.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:27 pm“Pot in teh Latkes”
“Hanukkah cannabis trance
Visions of Macabees danced in my head
When that one night of oil lasted eight nights instead
I was straight up trippin’ on the Hanukah miracle
I was so damn high I felt practically biblical
I forgot about Christmas, Santa, elves
My friend and I hugged, feeling proud of ourselves
We were super Jews, we Hanukkah junkies
Then my friend “Flow, I’ve got such bad munchies…”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2GOrdxCm6Q
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:30 pmif he had a dog
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:34 pmthe dog would look like dinner
washed down with Mad Dog
there’s lotsa people still flabbergasted by Mr. The Donald
remember though
many of these flabbered and also gasted peoples is the same ones what ardently embraced the idea that Sarah Palin being a heartbeat away from presidency of the united states of america was an idea what was every bit as tasty and sumptuous as a trailer park church picnic jello mold
nomnomnom
yeah girl been diggin on you … sippin on drink number two
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:36 pmbeing a heartbeat away from *the* presidency of the united states of america i meen
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:37 pmPatterico:
I’m still a conservative. I think what’s happened is that people under 50-60 don’t know what conservatives stand for because (1) schools and colleges no longer teach meaningful subjects in a logical way, and (2) there haven’t been many conservative leaders since Reagan who can explain conservative principles and policies, and (3) the media has successfully obscured conservative principles from the public.
If emotion and publicity is all we have to motivate people, Trump wins. But we have more. We have conservative ideas and the person who does the best job defending and explaining them will have a good chance, too.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:40 pmPlus, the unifying conservative principle behind Trump is speaking truth to power. The GOP can definitely use some of that.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:42 pm“conservatism” is just a label for hating on gays and doing weirdo idolatry on the fetuses
it’s a skank philosophy
i got your conservatism right here
be gentle
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:42 pmMake DC Listen.
It’s Cruz’s idea but Trump has made it his own.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:42 pmhappyfeet is a good example of someone who has fallen for the media’s spin on how evil conservatives are. He doesn’t vote but there are people who will vote if they have something to vote for.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:45 pmFunny, Col. I love latkes. Mrs. Chozen, a neighbor, made the best latkes. No weed needed.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:45 pmmg… what is the latest on that sad story re: your cousin’s daughter?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:50 pmremember though DRJ lady i swim in seas of deepest blue
all i can do is observe
and nonono i do not think conservatives (sp?) are evil
but have they betrayed the spirit of what animated the Tea Party (before Lois Lerner drowned it in the bathtub like a bag o cats)?
the tea party what was the mostest and last lively sign of a spirit of american rebellion we saw before Mr. The Donald appeared on the scene?
oh yes
every last goddamn one of them
the TP movement is deader than the frankest of sinatras
carly fetalrrhea was violently spewing just yesterday about the parenthood what may or may not be planned appropriately
keep humpin that fetus babycakes
and you will know them by their priorities
believe me
the reason failmerica is dying a ghastly death on par with King Edward oweth nothing to PP (which is, frankly, every bit as nakedly partisan as Google or the Pepsifag Co if you ask me)
but be for the reals
will PP be even an asterisked footnote when the story of failmerica’s plopper plop into the toilet of history is told?
nopers.
it’s the victors what will tell this tale
(hint: not Ted and Heidi)
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 3:00 pmThe scumbag will have another trial in Jan.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 3:05 pmNo body. No weapon, but his brother is testifying against him. As he put a gun to his brothers head and threatened him to keep quiet. A fricken nightmare, Col. My cousin and her husband have legal custody of Chloe. A very good thing. And I know Cinda and Dave thank all who said prayers or went to Chloe’s go fund site. As I know some of you have. Thank You all so much.
mg.
my fondness for his brother is probably way more than his brother deserves
but that’s just me
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 3:07 pmListen up, DC!
We’re gonna build a wall and deport everyone but Romney was too mean to the Latinos.
We’re gonna repeal ObamaCare but I have loved me some single-payer.
Political correctness sucks, now who’s up for some race-based affirmative action!
We need to fix the economy, so let’s pass a bunch of protective tariffs!
Now where’s my lawyer to write a threatening letter to someone who called me a bully?
CONSERVATISM!
I think he’s doing a great service to Cruz by being in the race, don’t get me wrong. And I think Cruz is handling him fine. But Trump is a terrible man and would be a terrible president.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/12/2015 @ 3:15 pmi think Mr. The Donald would try real hard to be a good president
my sense for real is he has a concept of
how to say
it’s what people what’ve compromised themselves wanna do
redeem!
Mr. The Donald is on a quest for redemption!
and it will be glorious
(Ted n Heidi make sad face)
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 3:20 pmI did see that trumples has started to go after bill’s wife. How will the media cover this?
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 3:27 pmmg,
It is a nightmare with, sadly, more to come but how amazing that your family is sticking together amid this tragedy and taking care of this baby.
I’ve always known that evil is the absence of Godly light, but I read today that good is meaning and evil is the absence of meaning. That resonated with me. You have endured evil and chaos for no reason, but that’s what evil is. You are giving light and meaning to Chloe and the rest of your family by focusing on what is good and meaningful. Bless you for that.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 3:27 pmMr. mg a LOT of my obamaslut friends think Hillary is a dumpster c-word and think Donald is the awesome
(but then they say what they really wish is that Fauxcahontas were running)
(and some of these people i love more than beans… but good gravy – how deluded!)
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 3:30 pmhappyfeet is a good example of someone who has fallen for the media’s spin on how evil conservatives are.
Not too much because several weeks ago he did describe one of the essences of the MSM, Anderson Cooper, as “faggy.”
But Trump is a terrible man and would be a terrible president.
I’m guessing those words have since come out of your mouth (or keyboard) as smoothly and trippingly when describing Barry. Moreover, if Dingleberry is a patriot, then Trump (with his rah-rah, make-USA-great-again qualities) sure is hell one too.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/12/2015 @ 3:32 pmi don’t drink but sometimes i need a stiff drink
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 3:38 pmAnderson Cooper’s great-grandfather owned a railroad that went from Detroit to San Francisco. Think about it.
nk (dbc370) — 12/12/2015 @ 3:40 pmfrom biltmore to the hilt more
oh yeah
this is CNN
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 3:42 pmDRJ-I’ve always known that evil is the absence of Godly light, but I read today that good is meaning and evil is the absence of meaning. That resonated with me. Me too.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:01 pmThank You for those kind thoughts. My cousins catholic faith is playing a large role in her understanding with how to cope and go on. The overwhelming support back home with friends and family is phenomenal. We thank God.
indeed DRJ, the words of John 10:10, describe the way of this world, so sorry for your loss, mg,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:06 pmthere’s nothing wrong with getting angry
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:08 pmDana has a different view
I don’t think my view is that different: I don’t believe Trump to be representative of Conservatism in any way whatsoever. I don’t believe he is worthy to be the president. I also don’t trust him because he speaks out of both sides of his mouth. IOW, he’s your typical Republican and I’m sick and tired of that corrupt bunch. I think if there were big bucks to be made, he’d do whatever was necessary to make them. I think he is cunning and sly like a fox as well as shrewdly adept at putting put his finger on the emotional pulse of the nation and tapping into it like he did with immigration and the recent Muslim proposal.
But there has been a benefit to that, as laid out in the post. And that’s a good thing. I don’t think Trump consciously thought, hey, I’ll break open the left’s stranglehold on setting the parameters of debate and break down the media’s control of the narrative. Of course not. He stumbled into it by virtue of his brash no-holds-barred antics coupled with his ability to tap into the frustration of the Republican base. If he wasn’t who he is, this shift in debate would not have happened and the media would not be currently brought to heel to any degree. Celebrity and wealth – it runs America. It’s what matters to most people.
Dana (86e864) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:10 pmmg,
It’s awful what you’re going through.
I heard that description of evil recently too. Very recently. It sounds right to me.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:10 pmthere’s nothing wrong with getting angry
I agree. I think far too often people of faith feel constrained by an expectation or rule not to. I think there is a righteous anger that is perfectly acceptable to God, and is necessary to express and work through in order to keep from drowning in it, and turning oneself fully over to it. That’s when it becomes the guiding force in one’s life. That’s what you need to be careful of. What has happened to this young woman and her family is indeed that which makes up a righteous anger. May God help you all to stay the course and remain in the light as you walk through this nightmare.
Dana (86e864) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:14 pmit’s a coffee-stained earth ever time it happens Dana
liven up!
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:15 pmThanks, narciso and Patterico.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:17 pmI don’t trust him either, but then you have the folks behind the corker bill, the Top Men, who have allowed a process that will ‘inevitably’ become single payer, as all the competitition drop out, of the system by design,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:17 pmhere
not sure why but always thought this was a righteous elegy
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:24 pmthe end of the year isn’t really all that far away Mr. Bob
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 2:25 pm
I was once better at spotting detail.
AZ Bob (34bb80) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:27 pmDana,
I meant only that (I think) you feel differently than I do about the value of talking about Trump. And I’m not sure you’re wrong.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:30 pmPlenty of anger, happyfeet. It’s how you handle it and move on with life in a new light. A dim light for now.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:30 pmA few boxes of clay pigeons were used in anger management.
it’s hard to put this in a soundbite,
https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Refugee_Resettlement_Hijra.pdf
narciso (732bc0) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:34 pmGreat tune, happyfeet.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:36 pmThanks, Dana.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:37 pmIn 2012, I assumed that the economy would play the biggest role in kicking Obama out with the failure of Obamacare being the second most important issue. I was wrong. Putting a dog on the roof of a car won out with firing a woman with cancer coming in second.
This year I am afraid we can throw out the poor economy as an issue and lets think what is going to motivate voters.
If it is immigration and Islamic inspired terrorism, which candidate with that help?
I was wrong before and I can be wrong again. Maybe redistribution of wealth is the issue!
AZ Bob (34bb80) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:39 pmclay pigeons are a good start Mr. mg
Mr 57 might have some good suggestions also
i just hope joshua gets some anger headed his way i really hate him
girl and the goat is what i booked for red cup season finale with my family, on the 27th, and now when i think of girl and goat i think of chloe
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:43 pmThe Buddhists say anger is always counterproductive — always — and in my own personal experience this seems right. It’s a hard, hard teaching to follow, and I’m in no position to lecture others about it. I just generally find it true for myself.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/12/2015 @ 5:20 pm‘there is something to Ghandi’s line, about making the whole world blind’ however justice needs to prevail,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/12/2015 @ 5:24 pmI think uncontrolled anger is a problem but recognizing and working through anger can be productive. It sounds like you are doing the latter, mg.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 5:32 pmThat seems more realistic. Pure Stoicism seems unappealing and even (by the definition above) evil. If you care about things, you’re going to get angry, I would think.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/12/2015 @ 5:35 pmOf the Trump supporters I follow on Twitter, I have seen literally no one argue that he is a small government conservative. Who thinks that?
Most of the support for Trump boils down to reassertion of control over immigration, and destruction/humiliation of the political class.
scrutineer (b7d257) — 12/12/2015 @ 5:44 pmA righteous anger from Ephesians: 26 Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and do not give the devil an opportunity.
This mystery is easier said than done. But I know it is possible. A very difficult process accomplished gently through the immense grace of God.
Dana (86e864) — 12/12/2015 @ 5:45 pmYou are a classical liberal, but you seem to be indifferent to the changing composition of the electorate and how that affects classical liberalism’s prospects. I see polls, for instance, that show strong majorities of Asian and Central American immigrants support sharply restricted gun rights. Do you expect them to come around to our point of view? If so, why?
scrutineer (b7d257) — 12/12/2015 @ 5:48 pmtruly, saul certainly knew that first hand, they had tried to kill him several times on the road to Jerusalem, shipwrecked, jailed scourged et al, if anyone besides the obvious had the right to complain,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/12/2015 @ 5:48 pmBeing competitive in nature and dealing with insane acts is an emotional roller coaster. Most of us can kind of sort of get back to a life, but Dave, Cinda and their two other daughters will never laugh the same again.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 5:50 pmi swear to god they’ll laugh better
people is crazy obstinate
people is crazy resilient
especially girls
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:02 pmThe Buddhists say anger is always counterproductive — always
That’s far too much of a generalization in my book, and I certainly can see that concept being exploited by happy-face liberals promoting happy-face political correctness.
“Oh, Nidal Hasan was a part of the US military while bad mouthing America and hyping Islamofascism. But please — please — don’t get angry about that—even if he did kill several innocent people at Fort Hood!”
The corollary to “anger is always productive” would presumably be happiness (or niceness) is always productive.
“Oh, that guy stole thousands of dollars from my family and embezzled millions from his boss. But I’m happy and want to be nice about that.”
Mark (f713e4) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:02 pmI have been hesitant to say anything about the situation, as I am a bit ambivalent about what it is that I could say that would be of help.
Job was the most righteous man in the world,
And not only did he get angry
But he eventually got angry with God and accused Him of being unjust and uncaring.
In my times of greatest emotional anguish I have thought about Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane,
Where His emotional pain was so great that He sweat drops of blood.
And I received some solace to know that however much pain I felt,
He had encountered worse and knew what I was going through.
In the book “Making Sense Out of Suffering”, Peter Kreeft makes the point that suffering, and any “answer” to it is not an intellectual or propositional issue,
But an emotional, relational, and personal issue,
God, why did you let this happen to me
So the only reasonable response is personal, Jesus on the cross,
And then risen again.
That wasn’t meant to be preachy, it’s all I’ve got and need to remember as well.
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:10 pmyour book is weird and stupid though
but that does *not* make you a bad person
happy red cup season to you and yours Mr. Mark!
(but yeah that sucks about Hitler)
(he coulda made some wee small fräulein very happy if he wasn’t so… you know)
…
HOMOSEXUAL TO WHERE ALL HE COULD THINK ABOUT WAS THE PENISES
jeezus looweezus stupid gay hitler
what a dick
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:12 pmI no longer think of myself as a conservative but rather a classical liberal.
That makes me pause in the same way I paused when you said (to somewhat paraphrase) that politicians like Obama are lousy, but politicians in general are lousy. I’ve noticed in quite a few instances people of the left often using that concept when trying to smooth over the failings of a public figure who also is of the left. IOW, such people making an effort to create sort of an ideological relativism or philosophical equivalency between politicians of the left and right.
I’ve observed some Republicans/conservatives dig up the same “they’re all lousy” comment when dealing with (and being embarrassed by) the failings of rightist politicians, but I’ve noticed that reaction or rationalization more frequently among folks who tend to lean left.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:12 pmMuch appreciated, MD.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:14 pmwell one figure who gets dissed by a nasty pikachu noted ‘don’t put your trust in politicians, because they will always dissapoint, however the dems seem to fulfill most of their promises, for good or ill, whereas the top men, find reasons to ignore their promises,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:16 pmI think evil has meaning,
It is hate, spite.
Jealousy for the sake of jealousy.
Me first, unthinking, no matter what the consequences.
It is not stealing bread to feed somebody,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:19 pmIt is stealing unneeded bread to make someone else starve.
we are the children
the last generation
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:19 pmwe are the ones they left behind
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:20 pmCertainly, mg.
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:21 pmLots of praying to do for those far and near.
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:10 pm
I didn’t think your comment came off as preachy, MD. I agree with your take. Feeling anger is a part of being human. How we deal or act upon our anger is where the rubber meets the road.
felipe (56556d) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:23 pmI think there is a righteous anger that is perfectly acceptable to God, and is necessary to express and work through in order to keep from drowning in it, and turning oneself fully over to it. Dana (86e864) — 12/12/2015 @ 4:14 pm
Righteous Anger (Ephesians 4:26-27)
26 Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and do not give the devil an opportunity.
Yoda (feee21) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:24 pmYou beat me to it Yoda! Well done.
felipe (56556d) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:25 pmlove that lil white church out on 109
happyfeet (831175) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:26 pmWhy does that make you “pause,” Mark?
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:28 pmit is curious how simple notions are not so readily expressed,
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/12/donald-trump-hillary-says-im-dangerous-when-shes-caused-so-many-deaths/
narciso (732bc0) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:28 pmOops, posted before I reached your post 121, I did.
Yoda (feee21) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:28 pmGun rights are increasingly popular in the U.S. That said, I don’t trust democracy as a system. I am not “indifferent” to the changing electorate but rather hope to do my part to educate them as to the virtues of the market and the dangers of government, including governments that are democratic or republican in nature.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:29 pmIt’s a far more complicated subject than that, Mark. The idea is that anger actually makes you unhappy without accomplishing anything positive. Again, I don’t mean to lecture anyone else but offer up the idea, which I find persuasive.
It doesn’t mean you don’t punish wrongdoers.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:32 pmwhat strikes me is how they can spend hectares of pixels, on the reaction typified by trump, or le pen, yet basically write nothing about the nature of the threat, I know I’m not surprised,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:37 pmhow Geneva is basically an oversight today,
The idea is that anger actually makes you unhappy without accomplishing anything positive. Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:32 pm
Anger, makes you unhappy it does not! If anger you feel not, human you are not! Suppressed and pent up anger, the enemy is! Explode suddenly it can! Cause cardiac event it can! Even depression it does! Yoda knows this first hand he does! You must unlearn what you have learned about anger! Express anger properly the goal must be, or destroy you it will!
Yoda (feee21) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:42 pmI love hearing that lecture about the benefits of anger coming from “Yoda.” Isn’t the Internet great? 🙂
Patterico (eb0373) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:49 pmwell you showed a bit of anger against darth sidious, you did,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:52 pmI think it’s harder to discuss the merits or demerits of anger in a very serious situation like that experienced by mg, and one runs the risk of delivering an unwelcome lecture, so I will leave it there as regards events that would normally move anyone to great anger.
I will say that l, when I remember to practice it, practicing patience and avoiding anger in more commonplace situations has been a benefit to me. When I remember to practice it. Which is hard to remember to do.
Patterico (eb0373) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:53 pm1. I’m not holding myself up as an kind of great moral example.
2. Showing anger can be valuable and indeed necessary at times. It is not necessary to experience it to show it. There is a lesson in that, I think.
Patterico (eb0373) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:55 pmI was riffing on Yoda, who throws down when needs must.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/12/2015 @ 7:00 pmOh right.
Patterico (eb0373) — 12/12/2015 @ 7:06 pmI love hearing that lecture about the benefits of anger coming from “Yoda.” Isn’t the Internet great? 🙂
Patterico (eb0373) — 12/12/2015 @ 6:49 pm
Lecture it is not meant to be! Life lessons learned the hard way it is! Avoiding anger impossible is, penning it up until it explodes is what occurs. Learning how to control and release anger properly the goal is!
Even going to quiet place and shouting, “I’m mad as hell and I’m not gonna take this anymore” help it can! Even taking out anger in batting cage helps. Gives you a target to take out and release anger on. Find your own way you must! Wish all could learn this from me and save themselves pain I do! CARDIAC EVENTS, hurt like HELL, they really, really do!!!!!!!
Yoda (feee21) — 12/12/2015 @ 7:06 pmSo it’s not stealing if your heart is in the right place, MD in Philly? So when leftist steal the fruits of our labor to redistribute it to someone in EBT cards it isn’t stealing? Sorry MD, that’s all stealing and it’s all wrong. The bread was going to feed somebody, you just decided you wanted it to feed someone different so you stole it.
It is stealing unneeded bread to make someone else starve.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/12/2015 @ 7:36 pmSorry Dana, I started reading the comments today at #127. this is what happens when I cannot be troubled to read all of the comments. Yoda had to fill me in.
felipe (56556d) — 12/12/2015 @ 7:47 pmMD,
For me, one of the hardest things to deal with is “Why would God let this evil thing happen?” I know God doesn’t want evil to happen and He’s not happy with the damage evil causes. But it’s easier for my simple mind to grasp these concepts if I view evil as an absence of meaning/God rather than something He controls.
But I’m not a Biblical scholar or theologian. In fact, I’m very, very uneducated when it comes to understanding these things, so I welcome any thoughts if I’m on the wrong track.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 7:48 pmMy experience says Patterico is correct about this. My wife is Korean and a Buddhist and when we had been dating about a year something happened at my restaurant and I started ranting and raving while she was sitting there (not at her at employees). She burst into tears. When I asked why she was crying she said my being angry hurt her because my being angry hurt me. Then she said my anger is the my Yin (dark and negative) and my happiness is my Yang (light and positive)and they were not in balance.
A few years later we had a spat and I went to my watering hole to get away and have a drink. The owner asked what was wrong and I replied: I’m mad at myself because I was mad at June. She doesn’t deserve Hoagies Yin so I was ashamed. Seems Grasshopper or Hoagie in this case was taught a lesson.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/12/2015 @ 7:50 pmWho says we need to be productive? Just kidding. Anger is part of the I-self, the character, the superego, the soul if you wish. If it makes you unhappy, that’s your problem. Stop it, if you can. If you cannot stop it or stop it from making you unhappy, you can still stop yourself from making others unhappy. That second is the job of your me-self, the person others see and that you want others to see.
There are people who are not happy unless they are angry and unhappy and are making others unhappy. Some are marching on the streets shouting “Black Lives Matter”; some are imposing Halloween dress codes in colleges; others are running for President. 😉
nk (dbc370) — 12/12/2015 @ 7:54 pmTrump steaks, only from Sharper Image.
Well, actually, from Sharper Image’s predecessor in bankruptcy. Meaning you can’t get ’em anymore. Kinda ironic, that — Sharper Image had to file Chapter 11 within a year after the Trump Steak advertisements ran.
Everything he touches turns to fool’s gold.
Beldar (fa637a) — 12/12/2015 @ 7:58 pmDo you believe Trump had anything to do with the company filing for bankruptcy? Does Esquire magazine, that bastion of conservative thought believe he did?
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/12/2015 @ 8:04 pmFor me, one of the hardest things to deal with is “Why would God let this evil thing happen?” DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 7:48 pm
Result of “Original Sin” by Eve and Adam it is! Automatons, God does not want, so choice He gave to us to love him freely! Fallen world we live in. But know ye this:
Romans 8:28King James Version (KJV)
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Read the whole chapter, one of my favorites it is!
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%208&version=KJV
Gives me great comfort it does, especially the last two verses:
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Perfect world we will inherit once sin is cast out and world remade by Him!
Yoda (feee21) — 12/12/2015 @ 8:09 pmThe margin in the Houston Mayor’s race is 100 votes. Any predictions on how those last 35 precincts will vote, Beldar?
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 8:10 pmFinal results in. Turner beat King by 680 votes.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 8:28 pmHow many steaks could you get out of Trump? And they’d be gristly and stringy and full of cholesterol, too.
nk (dbc370) — 12/12/2015 @ 8:29 pmWhy does that make you “pause,” Mark?
Patterico, because you, in effect, were making excuses for Barry’s lousiness—ie, I’m referring to when you said that Obama is crummy, but that most politicians are crummy). That’s sort of like dealing with a person caught shoplifting (or battering his wife, or cheating on school exams, etc) and saying, well, lots of people steal things from stores—or abuse their spouse or cheat on tests, etc.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/12/2015 @ 10:26 pmThe Houston Chronicle is delighted Turner won. Maybe it’s because he vowed to represent all Houstonians, “whether they voted for me or not,” as he also proclaimed his “love” for the Fort Bend County voters who put him over the top.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 10:36 pmIn other words, he will try to represent every voter but he loves the ones who voted for him. In a nutshell, that’s why people distrust politicians.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 10:39 pmWilliam A. Jacobson at Legal Insurrection is having the same thoughts as our Dana, although Dana was a day ahead of him. Well done, Dana.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/12/2015 @ 10:52 pm1. I have no idea what that has to do with my saying I am a classical liberal.
2. You did read my comments, right? You do understand the difference between his policies and his character, right? You do want to avoid being fed into a woodchipper, right?
🙂
(Kidding again, U.S. Attorneys!)
Patterico (41bc87) — 12/12/2015 @ 11:17 pmI like your story, Hoagie. I think you learned something from your wife, and in effect you learned something from a different culture. I think we all have things to learn from different cultures, but we also have to be willing to condemn the bad parts (like Muslims oppressing women) when we can recognize them as bad.
Those who reject everything about other cultures are wrong, and those who accept everything about other cultures are wrong.
Patterico (41bc87) — 12/12/2015 @ 11:24 pmSo true Patterico. It is SOOOO wrong to reject all Muzzlims, NOT ALL MUZZLIMS want to kill us.
Gus (7cc192) — 12/12/2015 @ 11:43 pmWe shouldn’t reject all of them. I mean, we all know that LEFTARDS would NEVER reject ALL REPUBLICANS, and require them to “ride in the back”. Why on earth do we play the LEFTARDS game???
We should not REJECT EVERYTHING about “other cultures”. What on earth does that mean? Seriously?
Who is rejecting EVERYTHING about OTHER CULTURES?????
Liberals are. Why do any of us, fell the need to position ourselves, so as to appease those WHO CAN NEVER EVER EVER BE APPEASED. The LEFT has ZERO intention to meet you and I half way. Therefore, the LEFT, accuses you, me and anyone who stands in their IDEOLOGICAL way, of being a racist, mysogynist, homophobe, Islamophobe ad infinitum. New VICTIM classes are created because we try to be so careful whilst walking on egg shells. Micro-aggressions, triggers, on and on and on, AND PATTERICO, ‘We’ buy into the ballship. As COMMIE BASTARDS accuse you and I. You try to defend yourself and US by “dignifying” lib nonsense. NO ONE has said CULTURE X nor Y is all bad.
Now who can argue with that?
Patterico (41bc87) — 12/13/2015 @ 12:07 amHoagie,
Are you playing the villain in Le Mis?
FWIW, I did not say it wasn’t stealing, nor did I say it was good,
I said that it wasn’t evil, it wasn’t hateful for the sake of being hateful
And it assumed that the one losing the loaf of bread was not going to suffer “greatly” for the lack of it.
I believe in private property, I don’t think the NT justifies socialism,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/13/2015 @ 5:40 amBut God commanded that the fields were not completely stripped of their harvest, that what was missed first time around was left for the poor to glean,
I guess the equivalent today is putting out the day old produce and baked goods for free,
Which Panera does btw, our church benefits on Sunday am (Olney/Feltonville)
The following was pointed out to me once:
Light is something very familiar to us,
physicists tell us that light “acts like” a particle in some respects, like little tiny balls,
but in other respects it “acts like” waves.
Now, light doesn’t take turns being one or the other, it is what it is all of the time,
it is our experience and perspective that limits our ability to conceptualize this
(it was argued that we can understand that these properties of light are true, but that is different from actually conceptualizing it like we can conceptualize a baseball)
The argument is that God is like that, and more, He is what He is and the universe is what it is, and in our “finiteness” it is beyond our ability to fully grasp.
that does not mean we can’t know many things about God and the universe,
but that we should not be surprised if there are things beyond our knowledge/understanding.
Which brings it back to the personal revelation of God in Jesus,
while I may have many questions, and even get angry and accuse God as Job did,
when “God shows up and I see Him face to face” as Job did, my questions go away.
We have not seen God as Job did, but we have seen Him in Jesus,
so at the very least we know there is an ultimate “fairness”, that God does not ask us to put up with things that He didn’t have to,
even though, as pointed out, it was “our fault” that we got into this mess.
And if anyone has a “right” to say life is unfair, it is Jesus, because He is the only one who suffered completely because of the wrongs of others and none of His own wrongdoing.
But He doesn’t say that, because He loves us too much.
That is not “the” answer, but I think it is a very helpful perspective to have in the mix.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/13/2015 @ 6:03 amLet me clarify,
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/13/2015 @ 6:09 ampeople can certainly say some things are “unfair”, they are, like what happened to mg’s family.
But Jesus took that unfairness upon Himself as well.
I’ve never even considered either accepting or rejecting everything about other cultures. However, when it comes to moslems what do they have worth accepting? Have they produced artists and composers like Michelangelo or Beethoven? Great writers like Shakespeare or Kipling? How about great strides in inventions like Edison, Tesla, Ford or the Wright brothers? How many Salk, Currie, Oppenheimer or Einstein’s has Islam given the world? For that matter how many Steve Jobs or Bill Gates?
If their culture were capable of producing Rockefellers, Vanderbilt’s, Carnegies and Mellon’s perhaps they too could have an industrial revolution. Or if it could produce a Washington, Jefferson, Adams or Franklin perhaps a revolution for Freedom. Or if they could even produce guys like Luther, Calvin or John Wesley they could reform their religion to the 21st century but even that seems a step too far.
All these things and more require a culture of Freedom to exist and that culture can’t exist in Islam. A Theocratic State which has not made one step forward on its own since the seventh century, I’ll keep digging but I don’t think I’ll find anything to accept about these guys.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/13/2015 @ 7:29 amBut God commanded that the fields were not completely stripped of their harvest, that what was missed first time around was left for the poor to glean, MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/13/2015 @ 5:40 am
Had to work for it they did by gleaning! Not handed to them with EBT cards it was!
How about great strides in inventions like Edison, Tesla, Ford or the Wright brothers? Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/13/2015 @ 7:29 am
Excel at bomb making and killing people they do!
Yoda (feee21) — 12/13/2015 @ 9:17 amOnce upon a time you could ask someone to chop firewood for a meal,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/13/2015 @ 9:21 amnow there is rarely a need for that,
and even if there was,
you would lose your shirt if he scratched himself while doing it…
1. I have no idea what that has to do with my saying I am a classical liberal.
2. You did read my comments, right? You do understand the difference between his policies and his character, right?
Patterico, your adjusting the word “liberal” to apply to yourself — which I’ve seen various right-leaning or so-called centrist people do on occasion — does make me raise an eyebrow when I wonder if the person making such a linguistic maneuver is far too comfortable with (feels far too gooey about) liberals and liberalism. But that by itself isn’t why I necessarily paused. I paused because of that re-definition combined with your previous statement about Obama being a lousy president but that most politicians in general also are lousy, along with your characterizing him several years ago as a “good man” and (wait for it, timer starts now)…..”patriot.”
But even those remarks by themselves aren’t solely why I raised an eyebrow when dealing with the sentiments behind them. I have to ask if the following characterization you make of Donald Trump — apparently effortlessly and with ease — is also triggered in you when you’re thinking of godawful — and truly terrible — Obama.
If it doesn’t, then you know why I have to take a moment to guess what’s at the core of your comments or descriptions. But if you do understand the difference between policies and character, then at the very least, the thing now in the Oval Office also very much deserves the description of “terrible man.”
Mark (f713e4) — 12/13/2015 @ 9:57 amRev.
I think a main difference between you and some of us is that some of us realize/think “Classic Islam as understood by their writings and many of their teachers and adherents” is indeed something that is oppressive, violent, and inconsistent with “Western” values as much as you do,
but we refuse to condemn every self-identified “Muslim” as holding those views.
It seems you are eager to do that.
IF you want to say “what difference does it make when we try to decide who to let in to the country?”
Then we would agree that it is a big problem.
If a police officer pulled me over in some parts of town and asked what I was doing there, if he/she was polite about it I would not mind, I know that in some parts of town a white person may be there to buy drugs,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/13/2015 @ 10:51 amBut if the officer started out treating me like crap assuming I was there to get drugs, he just lost my respect and made me an enemy.
http://therightscoop.com/trump-says-scalias-remarks-are-racist/
narciso (732bc0) — 12/13/2015 @ 10:58 amFirst off MD in hilly, if “classic Islam” is what you say it is why would you want any adherents here in the USA? And why would they want to be here? Secondly, I’m not asking you or anybody else to “condemn” any moslem, just keep them out of America since as you said their theocracy is inconsistent with Western vales.
And the difference with you driving at night in a black neighborhood and a moslem coming to America is this: As an American you have the right to drive anywhere you choose, an immigrant has no “right” to be here. For any reason. For no reason. You know, if they were actually bringing in the abused Christian refugees I may, just may be for it, but there is no such thing as an abused and discriminated and beaten moslem refugee from a country run by moslems. Unless he’s an apostate and they’ll kill him before letting him go.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/13/2015 @ 11:55 amMark,
That’s what I suspected. You don’t know what classical liberalism is. I’ll quote Wikipedia, because they are a great authority which said that Erick Erickson was prohibited from eating Asian children on December 7:
“Classical liberalism” is, in essence, the political philosophy of the Founding Fathers. It advocates economic freedom and small government. It is basically what is today called libertarian or perhaps conservatarian. It has nothing to do with the word liberal as it is used nowadays and indeed classical liberals get angry at the way the word “liberal” has been perverted by advocates of big government.
You know I use the word “leftist” a lot? That is because I consciously try to avoid using the word “liberal” when referring to leftists, because a follower of Hayek pointed out to me over a decade ago that it is wrong to call leftists “liberals” — and I agreed with him once I learned more about classical liberalism. I very occasionally use the word “liberal” when talking about the “liberal media” which is a phrase everyone understands to refer to leftists. But it’s generally a slip-up when I do.
So if you’re going around getting angry at small government types because they are calling themselves classical liberals, it’s because you were unaware of this term and its meaning. Hopefully this will be enlightening and will remove that impediment to your understanding of the classical liberal philosophy.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 11:59 amJust watched Trump on FNS… he had the right take on Hillary! Clinton’s culpability around the disaster in the Middle East and how everything she touched turned to a sh*tty, bloody mess and has gotten hundreds of thousands of people killed, but he was a buffoon in nearly every other aspect/on every other issue.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/13/2015 @ 12:00 pmThere’s a show on AWE right now MD in Philly called Dubai Mega Money Megalopolis. You should see this place. Why, oh why would any moslem want to come to Flint, MI? Other than to kill Christians for jihad.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/13/2015 @ 12:01 pmYup. Earlier this year, I would have done a post about this. But Trump showing that a) he doesn’t understand Scalia’s point or b) being pro-affirmative action or c) getting taken in by Big Media’s misrepresentation of Scalia’s remarks . . . none of it matters to Trump supporters. They already know he’s a leftist on many issues and they don’t care because they are sheep who gravitate to the alleged alpha male. They are cultists. So why would I bother writing about how Trump showed himself to be a leftist yet again? The only people who don’t understand Trump is a leftist are cultists, and you cannot reason with cultists.
I may do a post about Scalia’s comment itself. But I don’t know. It’s preaching to the choir. Everyone here already understands it anyway. But I still might. Thomas Sowell has added some facts to this issue that people might not already know (even if they suspect it on common sense grounds).
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 12:05 pmit is what is dubbed neoliberalism in Latin America, and Europe generally, although the corrupt foundations specially in the former, belied it’s implementation, in South America, it gave way to Rosas, in Mexico, to Santa Ana, and later Porfirio Diaz, mercantilist warlords and dictators,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/13/2015 @ 12:05 pm,
Patterico, you’ll notice I do the same. I never use liberal except in the classic sense unless I slip. I use leftist because that’s what they are.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/13/2015 @ 12:06 pmSowell’s insights are valuable, as well as the nature of the educational experience, which is increasingly sans actual knowledge,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/13/2015 @ 12:09 pmThat’s what I suspected. You don’t know what classical liberalism is.
Patterico, I’m not treating “liberal” in a strictly college-textbook manner, so your definition or approach to that word is different from mine. Moreover, in certain other countries (eg, Japan or Canada), “liberal” (or, in Canada, originally “progressive”) is part of the official title of even right-leaning political organizations. So if that word were treated in a similar manner in the US, the Republican Party could very well be called the “Republican Liberal Party” (snide quips about it leaning far left enough over the past 60 years to justify such an altered name).
By contrast, I can’t think of any left-leaning entity anywhere in the world incorporating “conservative” in its name. Of course, there may be one, but I’m not aware of it.
I’m dealing with “liberal” or liberalism as a bias rooted in various people’s belief that compassion and love are so powerful and wonderful, that logic and common sense (or hard-core reality) should take a back seat to feelings of compassion and love. Hence, compassion for compassion’s sake, even if the results of that ethos can be — ironically enough — quite ruthless, dishonest, selfish, destructive, bigoted, mean and two-faced.
I’m not sure if a glint of that bias is behind your not being hesitant at all to label Donald Trump a “terrible man,” while, so far, not applying that exact same description to a man who is no less horrible or terrible — if not far more terrible — referring to the guy now in the White House.
(However, I’m assuming that if Trump wins the presidency in 2016, and your not-as-young daughter sneers about him as she did about Obama in 2008, you’ll give her a lecture that Trump at least is a good man and a patriot too.)
Mark (f713e4) — 12/13/2015 @ 1:32 pmObama, with his actions as president, has shown himself to be a terrible man. I have said this many times, actually, so your assertion to the contrary is, I believe, quite false.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 1:40 pmYou assume wrong. I think Trump is a clown. She thinks Trump is a clown. No such lecture will be forthcoming.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 1:41 pmWell, “classical liberal” has a specific and rather well-defined meaning, and when I use it I am addressing people who understand it. You have now had it explained to you but you don’t seem to care that the concept has a clear meaning that has nothing to do with your own personal narrow definition. In short, someone calling himself a classical liberal in no way reflects some kind of pro-leftist bias. This has now been explained to you, and if you want to remain ignorant, we can all see that it is deliberate on your part.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 1:45 pmNo such lecture will be forthcoming.
Patterico, are you saying your heart was able to beat a bit faster towards Barry back in 2008, but it won’t towards Trump should he win in 2016? Most importantly, are you saying that your lecturing your daughter 7 years ago to prevent her from being too cynical and contemptuous towards any sitting president was a response that depends mainly on which occupant of the White House one is being cynical and contemptuous towards? That’s fine and all, but I never thought Obama’s smile was all that winsome well before November 2008, and I always sensed that beneath whatever facade people saw when looking at him, he was a horrible, bankrupt, vindictive leftwinger.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/13/2015 @ 1:54 pmoutsiders are discouraged from changing policies
http://www.france24.com/en/20151213-polish-ex-pm-kaczynski-slams-top-court-pro-government-rally
narciso (732bc0) — 12/13/2015 @ 2:01 pmIn short, someone calling himself a classical liberal in no way reflects some kind of pro-leftist bias.
As I noted previously, it wasn’t your recent redefining yourself as not a conservative but as a “classical liberal” that made me pause. That particular labeling all by itself and done by any person (who at least isn’t a dyed-in-the-wool liberal playing a game of masquerade) towards him or herself doesn’t make me go “hmmm.” It is OTHER things around that re-branding, if you will, that will make me pause.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/13/2015 @ 2:05 pmMark,
I am tired of talking about this and I think people are tired of reading it. Your phrase “are you saying your heart was able to beat a bit faster towards Barry back in 2008” implies that I had some kind of affection for Obama. Not only is this absurd, but it is has been explained to you at length WHY it is absurd.
Moreover, my daughter and I are both different people today than we were in 2008. She is obviously 15 and not 8, and is able to form her own judgments more competently. For myself, I have become less partisan in favor of Republicans per se, and more of a supporter of liberty and small government and free markets. These were tendencies I always had, but they have become more pronounced over time.
As a result, the notion that I should support or be excited by a leftist because he chooses to put an R after his name this election cycle has zero appeal for me. Donald Chump is a leftist, big-government guy — AND he is patently a man without principle who is out to benefit himself. If I thought Obama took leftist principles as unseriously as Chump takes “conservative” principles, I would not have been concerned by Obama’s candidacy anywhere near as much as I was. As I have said before, I like principled conservatives and unprincipled leftists.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 2:16 pmThis is hardly a “recent re-branding” but more of a realization, as I learn more about the philosophical underpinnings of “conservatism” vs. classical liberalism, that the latter category more aptly captures my set of beliefs.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 2:18 pmDonald Chump OK with funding the “good aspects” of Planned Parenthood because “we have to take care of women.” The idea (a classical liberal idea) that this is not the business of government would never occur to Chump, because he’s a not a small-government guy. He’s a loudmouth with no limited government principles whatsoever.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 2:23 pmCruz has turned the conversation to temperament and judgment, with Donald Chump claiming Cruz is “a bit of a maniac.” In what universe does Chump win that argument?
Please don’t throw Ted Cruz into that briar patch!
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 2:27 pmYour phrase “are you saying your heart was able to beat a bit faster towards Barry back in 2008″ implies that I had some kind of affection for Obama.
Patterico, perhaps “affection” is too strong a word, but my sense is you did have a visceral reaction towards Obama that isn’t as negative as the one you have towards Trump. Even more so when you did say back in 2009 that Obama was a patriot (I don’t recall your even using that word as much as the words “good man”), which is very, very much a stretch, and way too much benefit of the doubt given to a guy whose life history is full of “goddamn America.” Trump has expressed nationalistic, America-first emotions through the years, so at least “patriot” will fit him better than anything that can be said about Jeremiah Wright’s and Bill Ayer’s buddy (former or otherwise).
Then, too, I don’t recall your using a derogatory nickname towards Obama (who to me deserves as much respect as the name signified by, for example, “Dingleberry”) since 2008 as the one you’ve just started using towards Trump, that being “Chump.” Of course, one is a sitting president, the other one isn’t, as I’m not sure how much “respect for the office, not the man” fits into your POV.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/13/2015 @ 2:42 pmYour memory sucks, Mark.
October 2013: “The cynicism and arrogance is breathtaking, even coming from this chump”
October 2013: “How does it feel, chump?”
August 2009: “Above: Just a cop, Skip, and a chump from the White House”
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 2:56 pmAnd last month: “The sarcastic little punk who calls himself our President had this to say today:”
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 2:57 pmYour memory sucks, Mark.
Or those moments are outweighed by the following, Patterico. Moreover, recent major blog entries of yours do come on the heels of the guy in the White House having displayed in full living color for more than 7 solid years his totally, thoroughly, sickeningly contemptible and disreputable qualities.
^ Yea, I know substituting, say, “Barry” or certainly “Dingleberry” (or, an another example, Steve57’s “Prom Queen”) for all the words bolded above would give your blog an overly sarcastic, sardonic, vituperative spin. But at least from a purely visceral standpoint, wouldn’t you like to replace at least one — just one — of those boldfaced words with anything but “Barack” or “Obama”? I know I would.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/13/2015 @ 3:33 pmSounds like you want a different blog, Mark. One that loves Trump and consistently uses childish language to refer to political enemies. There are many, many such blogs out there. I think this discussion has reached the end of its usefulness.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 3:44 pmOne that loves Trump
Huh? I certainly don’t mind your not liking, or even loathing, Trump since, as you’ve detailed, he has qualities — both ideological and psychological — that should make anyone wary. So it’s not solely your reaction to him that makes me go “hmmm.” It’s your, by contrast, directing the “good man” and “patriot” sentiments several years ago towards a person who is far more dogmatic, far more leftwing — if not emotionally ultra-liberal — than Trump has ever been and who has a whole lot of anti-USA baggage in his history.
BTW, there’s one more “Obama” I should have boldfaced in that snippet above, meaning there were 5 instances when that particular name could have (or should have) been replaced with something else.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/13/2015 @ 4:05 pmMark,
7 years ago that comment was made once. In a context of the fact he was a devoted father. If u read this blog it has been hugely critical of obama.
Trump throws bombs wants attention and then whines like a clever safe zone liberal when confronted
EPWJ (1dea30) — 12/13/2015 @ 5:27 pmFirst off MD in hilly, if “classic Islam” is what you say it is why would you want any adherents here in the USA? And why would they want to be here?
I wouldn’t want them here and maybe they are here for jihad in its various phases,
just like I wouldn’t want anyone who advocated for the illegal overthrow of the US government to be here.
You are continuing to either not understand, refuse to understand, misunderstand, or something.
Pick a number not necessarily accurate, say 25% of Muslims support armed violent jihad and another 25% will tolerate it,
that means 50% of Muslims don’t and probably would love to be in a country with more freedom, and perhaps it was a majority of “this type of Muslim” that immigrated here in the past, and still does for that matter.
Now, if you want to say, “So what? I don’t want to risk some of the jihadist or jihadist sympathizer types to sneak in along with them.”
Then, we would be in basic agreement at that point.
Which is why I am happy to say women, children, old men, and religious minorities are the only “Syrian refugees” that should get into our country at this time.
And that is not all we need to do either.
Expelling all “Muslims” will never happen, rather than argue for that I would be happy to have the powers that be get serious about monitoring the jihadist threat, including asking the Muslim community to demonstrate their support of US freedoms by identifying and isolating jihadists,
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/13/2015 @ 6:20 pmand those who will not be part of the answer
are considered part of the problem.
I pointed out earlier, that Trump’s plan cribs from a proposal from the Center for Security Policy, to curtail refugees from moslem countries generally,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/13/2015 @ 6:25 pmThen we are in agreement at that point. So why do you ruin it by going further with:
Women, as we have just witnessed, are very capable of murdering our families and becoming “radicalized”. Agree? I have also seen videos of children beheading people in the ME as well as training with weapons and being used as human shields and bombs. Agreed? PLUS, women, children and old people start whining for their “families” then the ACLU, very quietly gets all their leftist lawyers to file federal suits to get the men in and we lose. Do you understand yet?
You are unfortunately correct that without the Great Hoagie being emperor we won’t be able to get rid of all moslems but we need to understand they are being “radicalized” in mosques and in prisons from coast to coast and those radicals are coming for us over time.
Yes, MD, they are already here and I’m well aware of it but that does not mean we need to bring in more. Oh, BTW, when you let the women in you set them up to procreate their asses off which they do very well.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/13/2015 @ 6:53 pmYour points are well taken,
Let’s say we start with religious minorities being persecuted by Muslims of every type,
And making the ME countries do the housing of the Muslims
And that was my point, we need to make a serious effort at identifying and expelling or jailing (in solitary) those recruiting/radicalizing.
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/13/2015 @ 7:01 pmYou mean operationalized. Not radicalized, dottore.
These things get tedious, even for me.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/13/2015 @ 7:10 pmyes, don’t how that could go wrong:
http://dailycaller.com/2015/03/03/imam-who-said-ayaana-hirsi-ali-deserved-death-penalty-was-hired-by-doj-to-teach-muslim-classes-to-federal-prisoners/
narciso (732bc0) — 12/13/2015 @ 7:13 pmIf someone is not a U.S. citizen and they advocate violent jihad
Send them packing whether there has been action or not.
And yes, the enemies are among us.
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/13/2015 @ 7:23 pmMark,
I think this discussion has reached the end of its usefulness.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 7:30 pmAlthough, I think I should add one more thing:
A leftist who wins office as a Republican is FAR, FAR more dangerous than a leftist who wins office as a Democrat.
Think about it.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 7:32 pmwell mushy moderates like Schwartzenegger who lose their nerve don’t help things,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/13/2015 @ 7:38 pmA leftist who wins office as a Republican is FAR, FAR more dangerous than a leftist who wins office as a Democrat.
But for a Republican like Trump, etc, to truly earn the label of “leftist,” he generally should be very politically correct, he should happily toe the line promoted by the left-leaning media, he should be very unrepentant in having been registered in the somewhat recent past as either a Democrat or independent, and he should innately/emotionally want to distance himself from a rather odd rightwinger (quasi or otherwise) like Alex Jones, whose radio show Trump was on a few days ago.
Half the battle, admittedly, is correctly assessing the ideological biases of a politician or people in general, made more difficult because the general attitude out there is, “shhh, please don’t talk about his/her politics. That’s rude and overly intrusive!” Or a variation of the concept that if one doesn’t want a fight to break out at a friendly family gathering, please avoid talking about politics and religion.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/13/2015 @ 8:01 pmI voted for the terminator. What the hell was I thinking?
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/13/2015 @ 8:02 pmnarciso,
When I see Trump in the Oval Office, I see Ahhhnold with national power.
And I fought tooth and nail for McClintock over Ahhhnold. I was told, again and again, that he was unelectable. And if we wanted to avoid Gray Davis, we had to go with Schwartzenmuscles.
What, exactly, did Californians get out of that deal?
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 8:02 pmWe have different criteria. To me, the only thing that matters is whether a candidate is for liberty and small government. Based on that criterion, Chump is a giant Fail.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 8:04 pmI’ve noticed a pattern with Trump. He doesn’t try to change the way things are. He works what is already there into his agenda.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/13/2015 @ 8:04 pmYou voted for a guy who had a reputation as a Tough Guy but in reality was a big-government moderate/leftist willing to cave at the first opportunity.
Don’t you support Chump these days?
Does that make you go “hmmmm” at all?
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 8:05 pm(Apologies if I’m wrong about that, papertiger. I’m not ideal at keeping track of everyone’s allegiances.)
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 8:06 pmOh / That’s right. I voted for McClintock. Then I voted Conan the second time/
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/13/2015 @ 8:07 pmHe was running against a multi-millionaire democrat who had made his fortune working at HUD.
It was like two weeks before the election Arnold signs AB32.
You want to make the case that Trump has a litter of lovechildren parented by Mexican housemaids?
It’s possible.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/13/2015 @ 8:12 pmLooking back maybe I should have voted for the crook.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/13/2015 @ 8:15 pmTo me, the only thing that matters is whether a candidate is for liberty and small government.
But, Patterico, from a purely emotional/visceral standpoint, why in God’s name did you ever believe that the horrible, out-and-out leftist now in the White House at least deserved to be labeled a “patriot,” whether 7 years ago or most certainly today—ie, the information about Obama’s ultra-liberal, anti-US sentiments and social circle has been rolling around out there since well before November 2008.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/13/2015 @ 8:17 pmhow do you get rich from HUD, Perot became rich in part due to processing blue cross contracts,
it was a crazy time, ‘strange days indeed’ you had Arianna Humble (that’s was Huffington Oil)
narciso (732bc0) — 12/13/2015 @ 8:24 pmand the late gary coleman on the ballot,
Mark,
I think this discussion has reached the end of its usefulness.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/13/2015 @ 8:38 pmThat anybody short of Judas Iscariot would be a better governor than Gray Davis.
Don’t beat yourself up over it. I was thinking the same thing. It isn’t like you get a lot of choices in Kali.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 12:10 pmOTOH, I did vote for McClintock. F***ing fat lot of good it did us. Turned out the Governator was more of a girly man than those he was calling out. At least he got a shiny new baby out of the deal.
Bill H (2a858c) — 12/14/2015 @ 6:59 pm