Patterico's Pontifications

12/4/2015

Tashfeen Malik and Syrian Refugees

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:39 am



One tidbit we learned yesterday is that Syed Farook’s wife, Tashfeen Malik, was seen firing an assault rifle at police during a pursuit. Another tidbit we have learned is that she came to this country on a visa for people planning to marry U.S. citizens.

In other words, she received the U.S. Stamp of Approval saying “this person is safe to come into the country.”

(That was, of course, before she came under the sway of U.S. gun culture. This episode illustrates that even people deemed safe by our federal government can turn bad when they enter this country and become exposed to propaganda from the National Rifle Association.)

Getting back to reality, this seems to illustrate the relatively unsurprising idea that the federal government simply lacks the ability to determine with certainty whether someone entering the country is a terrorist.

Somehow that seems relevant when we’re talking about absorbing 20,000 Syrian refugees over two years.

UPDATE: In case you were questioning my suggestion that she was a terrorist, I am now seeing reports on Twitter that she pledged allegiance to ISIS before the attack.

103 Responses to “Tashfeen Malik and Syrian Refugees”

  1. one pic shows mrs maleek, in subcontinental garb which is odd if she is supposed to be from the gulf states.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/04/investigators-probe-whether-wife-radicalized-husband-before-san-bernardino/?intcmp=hpbt1

    narciso (732bc0)

  2. this is the pic going around,

    https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/syed-rizwan-farook-and-tashfeen-malik.png

    we have little notion who these people were,

    narciso (732bc0)

  3. The left often (and loves to) attribute diabolical acts of people to economic deprivation a lack and/or a lack of education. Oddly enough, a good number of the acts of terrorism here and in Europe, if not elsewhere, have involved fanatics who were relatively well-off and well-educated (similar to the profile of all the deranged liberals populating the typical college campus?).

    Moreover, and yea, it’s easier to imagine a ruthless, bloodthirsty person as looking a certain way, being a certain gender. But in that photo of the wife taken perhaps at the party where the bloodshed would soon occur, she looks not just innocuous but even rather pleasant and quite normal.

    Mark (f713e4)

  4. if the refugee terrorists come here to Chicago and do any terrorisms they need to understand it can take up to 13 months for any meaningful reporting to occur

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  5. Narciso,
    she was Pakistani – born and a citizen before coming to the US. Not certain if her family was reshuffled when the Muslims demanded an independent state, but the garb points that way.

    max (4fdf98)

  6. This Yahoo article says Malik lived in Saudi Arabia most of her life and only returned to Pakistan 5-6 years ago to study pharmacy. If that’s true, and given that she is the one who posted allegiance to ISIS, it’s starting to sound like she radicalized him.

    DRJ (15874d)

  7. Apoarently there is a significant Pakistani population in Saudi Arabia. It even has its own Wiki entry.

    DRJ (15874d)

  8. if you go all the way back to 1957 you can see there’ve been precisely two noteworthy pakistanis in saudi arabia

    it’s like they’re not even trying

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  9. I think there are limits on what foreigners are allowed to do in Saudi Arabia. That may be why she had to go back to Pakistan for professional training.

    The question to me is whether she was radicalized in Saudi or Pakistan. Most Pakistanis are Sunni but ISIS has been targeting Pakistan for radicalization for several years. She may have been radicalized in Pakistan or in Saudi Arabia, and sent to Pakistan for that pupose if she was already radicalized.

    DRJ (15874d)

  10. The family thinks he married a terrorist. I think they might be right, but he was a willing accomplice and chose the victims. He was a terrorist, too, and some Muslims seem more willing to embrace the afterlife and to take lives with them in the process.

    DRJ (15874d)

  11. The idea of killing infidels is the problem with modern Islam. They either need to renounce this idea or realize the modern West can’t tolerate that.

    DRJ (15874d)

  12. True the abedind were indian

    narciso (732bc0)

  13. If I were the FBI
    I’d seriously investigate the report of other swarthy young men being seen at that a house
    With a view that this couple were not acting alone
    That they were part of a cell
    That they may have even been decoys and fall guys
    That the shooters may have been another team
    That these two were sent out there to die in a shootout with the police
    Maybe under threats to their baby and their other family members
    In order to put an end to any further search for the real killers
    And that the real killer team is planning its next attack
    And this theory of mine is as good as any of the other speculation out there
    And more useful.

    nk (dbc370)

  14. Excepting, of course, that we have the President’s word that ISIS is contained and there is no possibility of Islamic terrorists committing acts of terrorism inside the United States. That kills my theory.

    nk (dbc370)

  15. All the devices suggest a second cell, so did the five visitors

    narciso (732bc0)

  16. I should have clearer she doesn’t have the hijab or other telltale traditional garb.

    narciso (732bc0)

  17. I just don’t know what to believe, anymore, narciso. Manolo the Shoe Blogger has been revealed to be “a stout Christian man with 4 kids in Iowa”.

    nk (dbc370)

  18. Is it true that you have toured the apartment of the killers today? Everyone else in CA has it seems.

    phaedruscj (c94714)

  19. You betcha, Facepalm.

    narciso (732bc0)

  20. Nosh Ernest just reassured America thaat the screening for K-1 visas is less stringent than for refugees (which can take 18-24 months to run applicants through non-existent databases and inter neighbors who have fled a war zone, etc.). I’m sure ISIS/ISIL/IS has made note of that fact offered up generously by the White House spokesman…idiot

    in_awe (faf180)

  21. This is what I was talking about a few weeks ago–they can’t get here without our permission and assistance.

    Her husband maybe was born here, can’t do anything about that if true any more than we could about Timothy McVeigh or the Unabomber. But we could have kept her out, just like we could have kept out the 9/11 terrorists.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  22. would this not make any evidence in the apartment inadmissable now?
    http://mashable.com/2015/12/04/san-bernardino-shooters-apartment-journalists/#uupm38go_gq6

    Rorschach (8ddea0)

  23. No.

    nk (dbc370)

  24. Maybe next time they should put up a Biohazard sign to make people think twice.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  25. Remember when Obama criticized Cruz for being scared of Muslim refugee women? Everything Obama says has proven to be wrong.

    DRJ (15874d)

  26. True that, DRJ
    Can you begin to imagine what the press would do if it was a repub who stumbled into this irony?

    MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84)

  27. The movie Mars Attacks! could be prophetic.

    felipe (56556d)

  28. 11. The idea of killing infidels is the problem with modern Islam. They either need to renounce this idea or realize the modern West can’t tolerate that.

    DRJ (15874d) — 12/4/2015 @ 9:36 am

    It’s a problem with modern Islam?

    Surah 2:216 Al-Baqarah (The Cow)

    Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not.

    Surah 9:5 At-Tawbah (The Repentance)

    And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

    Surah 9:29 At-Tawbah (The Repentance)

    Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

    Surah 47:35 Muhammad

    So do not weaken and call for peace while you are superior; and Allah is with you and will never deprive you of [the reward of] your deeds.

    I hate to break it to you, DRJ, but this idea is central to Islam and has been from the start. Muslims have been commanded to fight, kill, and/or subjugate and humiliate everybody on earth who is not Muslim. I think it’s time that we realize that we can not tolerate this unless and until Islam reforms (the chances of this are small but it is a possibility; Gen. al-Sissi read the riot act to Egyptian clerics in one of his speeches and told them to straighten up and fly right because they can’t keep preaching a religion that puts Muslims at odds with everyone else on the planet).

    Hopefully Leviticus will be along shortly to say none of this can possibly be true because the Muslim guys he plays soccer with don’t do any of this jihad business. Which is sort of like someone completely unfamiliar with Christianity positing that the Bible can’t possibly condemn adultery because his Baptist friends are constantly asking him to alibi them if their wives call while they’re shagging their girlfriends.

    What we call “radicalization” usually involves nothing more than some more serious Muslims getting through to casual, fun-loving nominal Muslims like those soccer players and telling and showing them how they’re not the good Muslims they think they are. Instead they are apostates and heretics for not taking their religion seriously and they’re going to go to hell unless they start killing infidels (start over with verse 2:216 if you’re unclear on this concept).

    That is not an oversimplification. That is precisely all there was to it when more serious Muslims “radicalized” the Lackawana Six. They just befriended them and earned their trust said, “We hate to tell you guys this, but you’re going to go to hell unless…” And the rest, as they say, is history.

    http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?complete_911_timeline_al_qaeda_by_region=complete_911_timeline__lackawanna_six_&timeline=complete_911_timeline

    A group of seven men in Lackawanna, near Buffalo, New York, are influenced by religious discussions with two al-Qaeda operatives, Kamal Derwish and Juma al-Dosari. The seven US citizens—Yaseinn Taher, Yahya Goba, Shafel Mosed, Mukhtar al-Bakri, Sahim Alwan, Faysal Galab, and Jaber Elbaneh—leave for jihad training in Afghanistan. They tell friends they are merely going to Pakistan for religious instruction. Escorted by Derwish, the men travel separately and attend a six-week long weapons course at the Al Farooq camp…

    Steve57 (a13395)

  29. I can’t change the historic interpretation of Islamic principles, but how modern Islam perceives its principles can change. That’s what needs to happen.

    DRJ (15874d)

  30. R.I.P. actor Robert Loggia

    Icy (c2822c)

  31. Or nuke ’em.

    G Joubert (0399e8)

  32. Someone needs to tell Obama, not that he would listen:

    As the FBI continues to investigate, Nada Bakos, a former CIA analyst, told ABC News she would not be surprised if Malik had been ISIS-inspired. “Terrorism is not gender-specific,” she said.

    DRJ (15874d)

  33. The link says Malik wore a full burka and Farook’s brothers had never seen her face.

    DRJ (15874d)

  34. It also has a photo of what it purports is Malik.

    DRJ (15874d)

  35. 31.I can’t change the historic interpretation of Islamic principles, but how modern Islam perceives its principles can change. That’s what needs to happen.

    No DRJ, what needs to happen is exactly what G Joubert stated, unequivocally in comment #33: Nuke’em! If I was President they’d be praying five times a day to a sheet of glass.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  36. Maybe the sister and/or the family is why CAIR and today’s attorneys were so ready to jump in and defend Farook and Malik.

    DRJ (15874d)

  37. You can’t nuke all Muslims.

    DRJ (15874d)

  38. But you can kill the terrorists, and I agree we should do that.

    DRJ (15874d)

  39. First MSNBC paws through the terorists’ home and now CNN insults the dead spouse of a grieving widow. This is how average people succumb to evil in pursuit of their agenda.

    DRJ (15874d)

  40. 39.You can’t nuke all Muslims.

    How the hell do you know? It’s never been tried. Besides, you don’t have to nuke’em all, just their major cities. That should drive the point home. And while we’re at it stop letting them come into America. Would we be bringing in thousands of nazi’s in 1943? Would you bring the Cripts or the Bloods into your home to live? This whole thing is criminal. Keep’em the hell out of here.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  41. No, DRJ, there is no interpretation, historic or otherwise, of the Quran. It’s plain, yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

    Here is one explanation

    felipe (56556d)

  42. sorry, DRJ, I did not mean to “pile-on”. I was collecting my link while Hoagia left his reply.

    felipe (56556d)

  43. I can’t believe that, DRJ. That Gary Tuchman idiot should be fired. There is really something very, very wrong with the people in this country. Has everyone lost their collective minds to political correctness?

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  44. DRJ @31, I totes agree with you. And as I mentioned there are many within Islam who recognize that and are calling for that as well.

    http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/010515-733240-egypt-president-abdel-fattah-al-sisi-speech-calls-for-major-reforms.htm

    Unfortunately the odds of a snowball surviving for a week in Times Square in the middle of July are better than the odds of reforming its interpretation of its own principles at this late date.

    There are myriad reasons for this. One is structural. There simply is no central authority within Islam such as the Vatican or LDS First Presidency that can say what Islam is and is not. Second the weight of the evidence is against reinterpreting the principles of Islam. The Quran declares Muhammad to be the pattern upon which all Muslims must model themselves. Also that Muhammad is the judge in all things; once Muhammad has decided a matter it is decided for all Muslims and for all times. Any Muslim who rejects or simply fails to strictly adhere to Muhammad’s judgements is considered an apostate (at least within Sunni Islam, things are slightly different in Shia Islam).

    Consequently anybody who seriously tries to reform Islam risks being declared a heretic and an apostate. This was precisely the fate of the Ahmadiyya who among other things renounced military jihad and even violence except in the most dire of circumstances and embraced modern science since they are of the belief that there can be no conflict between the words of God and the works of God. In this sense they are like most Christians who believe that science helps us understand God. This is also why one of only two Muslims who have won the Nobel prize for science was a Ahmadi Muslim from Pakistan, Mohammad Abdus Salam.

    Now the bad news. Ahmadis, no doubt the nicest group of people you’re ever likely to meet even when they are knowledgeable of and are strictly adhering to the tenets of their religion, are considered heretics and non-Muslims in almost all Muslim minority countries. For instance in Pakistan, the home country of Abdus Salam, they were declared heretics in 1974 and the sect is practically although not technically illegal. Saudi law also technically prohibits Ahamis, like all non-Muslims, from setting foot inside Mecca. (I say technically because apparently the Saudis don’t investigate too closely and many Ahmadis do conduct the Hajj.) Like the only other Muslim to win the Nobel Prize for science, an American of Egyptian descent named Ahmed Hassan Zewail, Abdus Salam was forced to do his research outside of the Islamic world where real science is essentially illegal (boko haram!). When he died he asked to be buried in his native Pakistan. His family erected a graveyard monument that declared him to be among other things a Muslim. The local authorities sandblasted that off the tombstone. Ahmadis are not allowed to identify themselves as Muslims, to the extent their existence is tolerated at all.

    So I expect a similar fate to befall any others who attempt to modernize and reform Islam. I also expect GEN al-Sisi to be assassinated like Anwar Sadat.

    So we need to stop waiting on that snowball and develop a sensible policy independent of whatever Muslims may someday get around to doing.

    Steve57 (a13395)

  45. An excerpt from the link:

    An (S.J.) Lonerganesque thrusting of whatever worldview down the throat of a Muslim of any particular provenance with the idea that this will effectively crush the taking of the text of the Qur’an at face value might just possibly get your own throat slit. And we don’t want that, do we? No. Neither did Benedict XVI. The response of the Imams, et alii to the famed Pontiff, having it that analogy and logic and natural law is all so much rubbish of an imposed worldview (though that is simply not the case) was a ruse to avoid speaking about what the text itself presents. Benedict XVI is the utmost gentleman and scholar and felt he had to let it go there. To this day the Holy See thinks it basically impossible to kick start any substantive dialogue with Islam.

    felipe (56556d)

  46. First MSNBC paws through the terorists’ home and now CNN insults the dead spouse of a grieving widow. This is how average people succumb to evil in pursuit of their agenda.
    DRJ (15874d) — 12/4/2015 @ 3:47 pm

    It’s so bitterly ironic: we cannot even say radical Islamic terrorists while AG Lynch is threatening to prosecute those who hurt Muslims’ feelings.

    It’s okay to denigrate Christians and their calling to share Christ, but we cannot call into question the religion of radical Islamic terrorist who just killed 14 Americans on American soil.

    One religion is protected, one is not.

    Dana (86e864)

  47. G Joubert and I already told you how to kick start a dialogue with Islam. Nuke’em. They only understand power and force (kinda like leftists) so give’em a dose of power and force. It’s not like we have a shortage of nukes (unless they’ve been lying to us and using the money to buy votes?).

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  48. One religion is protected, one is not.

    Again, you’re not getting it. One religion is persecuted, denounced and forbidden to be shown in public while the other is supported because it’s NOT a religion but a State! Will somebody please listen?

    That’s why the anti-religion left loves them some moslems, they aren’t a religion, they’re an international form of government. And they’re despots on top of it so naturally the left is gonna love’em.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  49. I would not protest if a nuke was dropped on Isis. But there is a better chance that a nuke will, instead, be detonated on U.S. soil by terrorists

    felipe (56556d)

  50. Hoagie,

    Whoa! I don’t disagree. But, for the sake reaction to two *religions* (which is what we are told: religion of peace…), I went with the comparison.

    Dana (86e864)

  51. My guess is that if these murderers had killed their victims by the sword, it would not have made national news. Because no guns.

    felipe (56556d)

  52. FYI that lady in he sari with light eyes is pictured with the brother, and is the brothers wife. It’s taken rom the be the’s FB page. Sayed Farook had a brother named Sayed Farook – they had different middle names.

    SarahW (67599f)

  53. felipe,

    Muslims have to change just as Christians have had to change and accept SSM.

    DRJ (15874d)

  54. I thunk they spell it Syed. The father’s name is Syed Farook, too.

    DRJ (15874d)

  55. Just like I spell think as thunk.

    DRJ (15874d)

  56. 43. No, DRJ, there is no interpretation, historic or otherwise, of the Quran. It’s plain, yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

    Here is one explanation

    felipe (56556d) — 12/4/2015 @ 3:53 pm

    Actually, felipe, there are interpretations of the Quran. This is why Sunni Muslims call themselves in Arabic “Ahlus Sunnah wal Jema’ah.” The are the “adherents of the Sunnah and the congregation.” Note that they are not the adherents of the Quran, although that is of course what Muslims believe to be the unfiltered, unaltered, unalterable word of Allah.

    Basically the Sunnah is Muhammad’s interpretation of the Quran. This can be found in what is now the major component of the Sunnah, to the extent some use the words interchangeably although they are in fact not, the Hadith (technically ahadith in the plural). For a Sunni to question a sahih (genuine) or hasan (good; an otherwise sahih hadith with a minor flaw) is blasphemy as it renders Muhammad’s judgement and Muhammad is Allah’s infallible prophet. To the extent that Muhammad did not render some judgement on something then the matter falls to the “scholars” to investigate further and render judgement. But once there is consensus among the scholars and therefore among Muslims (the congregation) no Sunni is allowed any leeway whatsoever.

    Things as I mentioned earlier are slightly different with the Shia. They don’t rely on the Sunni collections of ahadith (the Khutub al-Sittah, or the six books). They have their own collections of ahadith (the Khutub al-Arba or the four books written by “the three Muhammads”). These are open to interpretation as while Muhammad is infallible the chain of arrators who passed these pearls of wisdom along until they could finally be written down are not. All this does is empower the “scholars,” i.e. the Mullahs, to render judgement on pretty much all things. But once they have, a Shia Muslim has no leeway to render a different interpretation.

    Basically, a Sunni Muslim has to submit to one of the interpretations according to whichever of the four major madhabs or schools of jurisprudence they adhere to (like practically everything in Islam this is decided for the Muslim, usually by geography); the Hanbali, Hanafi, Shafi’i, or Maliki. Depending on how many divinely guided Imams their particular sect of Shia Islam recognize, Shias adhere to the Jafari (twelver shiism, the largest sect among the Shia), Ismaili (sevener shiism) or Zaidia (fiver shiism, the oldest sect and closest in theology to the Sunnis) schools of jurisprudence.

    So there are interpretations of the Quran. But very few, and there isn’t too much difference between them. But individual Muslims are not allowed to have their own interpretation unless they themselves have recognized scholarly qualifications. The following quote from “The Reliance of the Traveler,” the elementary book of Shafi’i jurisprudence, expresses this idea.

    @4.20.3 Reading books above one’s capacity to understand
    The Shaykh al-Akbar, that is Shaykh Muhyiddin ibn al-`Arabi, may Allah, the Most High bless him, writes in his letter about the spiritual station of annihilation in gnostic vision, ‘When a book on a subject of which one has no knowledge falls into one’s hand, and one has not studied it under a knowledgeable shaykh, who is a master of the subject, then he should do absolutely nothing with the book and return it to its giver. He should neither believe, disbelieve, nor discuss it at all.’ (ibid., 131-32).

    The vast majority of Muslims aren’t even qualified to discuss the Quran let alone interpret it. They can use their own judgement only when they don’t have authoritative guidance.

    Steve57 (a13395)

  57. * Basically the Sunnah is Muhammad’s interpretation of the Quran. This can be found in what is now the major component of the Sunnah, to the extent some use the words interchangeably although they are in fact not,

    And there I go making the very mistake I warned against. The Sunnah is the “well trodden path” of Muhammad. It isn’t his interpretation of the Quran. It includes that, but it also records everything about his life in both the ahadith and the sirah (biographies of Muhammad) so that Muslims can model themselves upon their prophet.

    Muhammad’s interpretation of the Quran is in the hadith collections of both Sunnis and Shias.

    Steve57 (a13395)

  58. 51.I would not protest if a nuke was dropped on Isis. But there is a better chance that a nuke will, instead, be detonated on U.S. soil by terrorists

    Which is why we hit them first, hard and swift. The left here is actively rooting for the moslems and if you don’t believe me just listen to what they say and watch what they do. The left will have us unarmed and defenseless against the oncoming hoards because they allow moslem countries to develop NUKES! Bomb’em for crap sakes! They can’t detonate a bomb they don’t have! While the left in this country are busy little bees trying to get gun confiscation of our self defense they are letting moslems build bombs. Hello, (tap, tap) is this thing on? Can anybody hear me?

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  59. Why wasn’t a photo of Tashfeen Malik released when the photos of her husband were? Why didn’t State have them to release?

    According to the State Dept., requirements for a K-1 visa include: Two (2) 2×2 photographs. See the required photo format explained in Photograph Requirements

    Dana (86e864)

  60. There you have it! I vote for Steve57 for President since he seems to be the only non moslem this side of Mecca that knows what the hell is up with their religion. Put in a good word for me as SecWar (that’s right, Sec Defense is for pussies).

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  61. Dana I thought the photo of the female terrorist was featured at the “Caption for Photo” post.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  62. Here’s the sparkling beauty.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVaosjnU8AATqLN.jpg

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  63. Miss Malden is tied to the notorious red mosque in her native Pakistan.

    narciso (732bc0)

  64. Thanks for the thought, Hoagie, but for me it’s Bellator Rex or nothing. Bellator Rex is Latin for Warrior King. Think of Holy Roman Emperor on steroids.

    I won’t have a Secretary of War. I will consider you for the post of Imperator Augustus, or The Most Illustrious General, who will be in direct command of all my forces in the field.

    Steve57 (a13395)

  65. Now wait just a dad blame minute here. Let’s talk this out. What about me huh? I’m tan, I’m rested, and I’m ready.

    ropelight (ddbdc8)

  66. But individual Muslims are not allowed to have their own interpretation unless they themselves have recognized scholarly qualifications.

    That’s the point I was making. But further, since it restricts Muslim “personal” interpretation, imagine how much more infidels are restricted, eh?

    felipe (56556d)

  67. I am pretty sure Isis is waiting on Iran to provide them with nuclear ordinance. Hmmm that was poorly phrased but you get my drift.

    felipe (56556d)

  68. ropelight, I said I’d consider him for the job. I didn’t promise it to him.

    Besides, they’ll be plenty of patronage positions to go around. For instance, somebody has to be my Praefectus Praetorio. I envision the post as not merely consisting of command of my Praetorians, but also something of minister of war, influential but advisory in capacity, and head of the training academies for all my officer cadets.

    Then of course they’ll be numerous governorship/regional military commanders when I divide the world into prefectures. It will come with the title Vinco Maximus Ferox et Indomitus, the Grand Master Fierce and Unconquerable.

    Seriously, there won’t be a bad job in the lot. Except for Governor of Antarctica which I’ll be creating purely to banish people to when they really screw up, but not badly enough for me to execute them. It won’t get the same honorific as the rest of the governorships. Instead the title will be Grex Aves et Glacies, the Herder of Birds and Ice. Other than that…

    Just keep your Linked-In profiles updated and I’ll let you know.

    Steve57 (a13395)

  69. felipe @68, you mean those non-Muslims allowed to live?

    I say that because the Muslim conquest of India and subsequent rule resulted in what must be the greatest holocaust in human history. The Hindus are after all polytheists, and the Quran and Muhammad through the ahadith tell Muslims to kill polytheists without quarter until they adopt Islam. Hl. But they weren’t exactly as merciful and enlightened as Muslims like portraying themselves. The consensus among those who have studied the period is that Muslims slaughtered between 60 and 80 million Hindus between 1000 and 1525 AD. The Muslim conquest of India started with their invasion of Afghanistan which was, of course, then almost entirely Hindu. The Muslims annihilated the Hindu population; the mountain range between Afghanistan and Pakistan is known as the Hindu Kush (Hindu slaughter, or “kills the Hindu”) to this day as a result.

    But, yeah, if you were allowed to live you were very restricted.

    http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-kills-pact-of-umar.htm

    4. We shall not teach the Qur’an to our children.

    Actually a dhimmi isn’t allowed to even touch a Quran.

    Steve57 (a13395)

  70. A face made to be burka’d…

    https://t.co/lM2DoUeV6K

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  71. A question for those who say “nuke them all”-
    If a person says they are a Muslim but that they like the US government AND they cooperate with authorities to say who is radicalized at the local mosque (and the info is legit),
    Do you let the person stay here?

    Not that I am saying there would be many in that situation,
    But for those that were,
    What would you do?
    Yes, I know some would say such people are not Muslims, but that is not what I am asking.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84)

  72. MD,

    Just had that discussion last night with someone who is on the ‘nuke ’em all’ side of the debate. Wants to send them all back to their country of their origin. I asked what if they were American born and raised, then what? They likened it to the Japanese being interned here during the war. That then assumes what half of our country doesn’t believe: that we are at war with Islam.

    Dana (86e864)

  73. If a person says they are a Muslim but that they like the US government AND they cooperate with authorities to say who is radicalized at the local mosque (and the info is legit),
    Do you let the person stay here?

    Yes, MD. These people are called quislings, spies, traitors to their people and we can and should use them until they are murdered by their own. Which they will be sooner or later. There are spies and traitors in every war aren’t there, MD? Now, when in this war have moslems turned in their own? Never. When have you seen on TV a cell of moslems doing the perp walk because their friends, neighbors, relatives and mosque turned them in as traitors? Never! When in this war have moslems from the ME come here to train to be American soldiers and fight for freedom. Never. But we hear all the time of Hoe-Grown Americans going to the ME to get training from terrorists don’t we? AND WE LET THE BACK IN! Why?

    I asked what if they were American born and raised, then what?

    Then, Dana, they’re called “Home-Grown” terrorists. Like Farook. What part of “moslems have no reason to be in the United States” does everybody find so hard to understand? They are at war with us , people! You all go squishy because they say it’s a religion and we have Freedom of Religion. I understand. Now you understand: It isn’t a damn religion. It’s an international State masquerading as a religion to control its people and infiltrate their enemies. Mohammad was a soldier, a conqueror and a politician. He did not go around doing wedding ceremonies and kissing babies. He went around killing babies and raping their mothers and conquering their lands.

    If Americans continue to think like this about our enemies and fail to recognize the threat of bringing in unknowns into our country (whether Mexican, Syrian or Irish) we have actively given up the sovereignty of our country and its legitimate right to exist. And in short order it will cease to.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  74. I don’t care what Muslims think. I care what they do.

    Which doesn’t mean there is no value in trying to understand people’s beliefs and attitudes. There is, just as there is value in studying history and sociology and other disciplines. Ultimately, though, the issue is whether or not they will conform their behavior to something we can live with, regardless of what motivates them to do it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  75. I guess this is my variation on Bush’s doctrine. Either they can live with us or they can’t. If they can’t, then they are our enemies.

    DRJ (15874d)

  76. You know Dana, we have Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly and the RKBA along with Freedom of Religion. If moslems are here they have the right to Assemble and use Speech to incite and entice others to join their anti American murderous jihad against you, me, our families HERE, like Farook! And they also have the RKBA. Is that really what you want from a people who while claiming the protection of a religious mantel declare war and jihad on the U.S., the West and Israel?

    Where is it written in history or the Constitution itself that if a “religion” goes to war against us we are prohibited fro defending ourselves because Freedom of Religion? Where? Show me.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  77. Ultimately, though, the issue is whether or not they will conform their behavior to something we can live with, regardless of what motivates them to do it.

    Wrong, DRJ. Stop the pabulum, you’re listening to too any leftists. They have to WANT to conform their behavior to acceptable Western and American standards. They can’t be forced and they can’t be faking. Motivation is very, very important in any major life change and here it is particularly important. Life and death important.

    Quite frankly I can’t see ay way these barbarians can “conform” to out standards without becoming Christians. So what are those chances?

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  78. You know Dana, we have Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly and the RKBA along with Freedom of Religion. If moslems are here they have the right to Assemble and use Speech …”

    Are these freedoms extended to all, or are they reserved to the citizenry? In practice, or just in theory?

    felipe (56556d)

  79. I will consider you for the post of Imperator Augustus, or The Most Illustrious General, who will be in direct command of all my forces in the field.

    Your consideration for the post is all I can ask. Besides, I like Field work and have the scars and awards to prove it. I’m not a “lead from the back” kind of guy. I actually enjoy the battle.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  80. Quite frankly I can’t see ay way these barbarians can “conform” to out standards without becoming Christians. So what are those chances?
    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/5/2015 @ 7:13 am

    This is what I call an insight. Even if it feeds into the leftist claim* that Christianity is no better than Islam because “CONVERT!”

    * And the atheist claim that religion is the problem.

    felipe (56556d)

  81. ladies and gentleman please to say a warm hello to AP propaganda slut Martin Crutsinger

    The deficit with Mexico rose 10.2 percent to $33 billion, the biggest deficit with Mexico in more than three years. The deficit with China fell 9.1 percent to $33 billion, still the largest imbalance with any country.

    pickle needs a lil vacay i think

    happyfeet (831175)

  82. I guess this is my variation on Bush’s doctrine. Either they can live with us or they can’t. If they can’t, then they are our enemies.
    DRJ (15874d) — 12/5/2015 @ 6:59 am

    Yes, I agree. Too bad the nation is not of one mind on this.

    felipe (56556d)

  83. felipe @68, you mean those non-Muslims allowed to live?

    Yes. I hope we all know who we are.

    felipe (56556d)

  84. Are these freedoms extended to all, or are they reserved to the citizenry? In practice, or just in theory?

    I can’t answer that as far as the law is concerned but I can answer as far as common sense is. They should be extended to all American citizens, allies, friends and friendly visitors. The Constitution of The United States is not a suicide pact. We should not extend rights to our enemies to use against us. That’s stupid. If moslems have declared war (jihad) they lose those rights. Why are we helping them recruit with freedom of speech and assembly and murder our people with RKBA? We don’t have enough murderers and criminals in this country we need to import and recruit more? Are we stupid, people? Are we stupid?

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  85. I like your answer, Hoagie, maybe because I like common sense or maybe because IANAL. It strikes me that you are far more generous than I since I would restrict Constitutional rights to the Citizenry. After all what use is there in being a citizen if obtains one little more (privilege/duty?) than a legal resident?

    felipe (56556d)

  86. This is what I call an insight. Even if it feeds into the leftist claim* that Christianity is no better than Islam because “CONVERT!”

    * And the atheist claim that religion is the problem.

    felipe, I didn’t say forced conversion* like the moslems do. Convert or die. And if you can see another way for these bozos to become “westernized” and civilized other than voluntary conversion feel free to let us know.

    *Atheists claim ALL religion is the problem when only one is. And the one that is the problem a state and a religion. It is, just like atheism in that sense. Atheism is the religion of believing there is no God. Islam believes there is their god and he runs the faith and the state.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  87. Correct, you did not say “forced”, I’m just pointing out the obvious spin a leftist would place on your words. I agree, voluntary conversion is pretty much all there is Hoagie. Or the liberal use of nukes. But “Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord.”

    felipe (56556d)

  88. After all what use is there in being a citizen if obtains one little more (privilege/duty?) than a legal resident?

    Hold on there, big fella. Where did I say “legal resident”? Maybe I assumed too much but when I said “allies, friends and friendly visitors” I was referring (in my own mind) to those persons prescreened, coming here from friendly, allied countries for a limited time for work or school. I don’t believe in the resident alien program unless the person is engaged and will be married within a year (or some other set time frame). And they too can only reside in the US if their country is friendly and they are prescreened.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  89. But “Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord.”

    In the next life. In this life we need to deal out our own version of revenge.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  90. “Hold on there, big fella. Where did I say ‘legal resident’?”

    You didn’t. I did, in order to exclude illegel residents. I am getting the feeling that maybe you have been battling so many leftists of late that you are tempted to think I am putting words in your mouth, when these words are only my own. Stand down, sir, no need for friendly fire.

    felipe (56556d)

  91. I don’t know why there should be an exception for spouses and fiancees. Look what that just got us. Immigration should be strictly to fulfill our labor needs. They can send money to their wives and girlfriends back home and fly there on their vacations for conjugaling.

    nk (dbc370)

  92. “conjugaling”

    Lol. That’s going into my vocabulary.

    felipe (56556d)

  93. I was half joking but, seriously, we would have no Mexican border problem if not for the “family unity” rules.

    nk (dbc370)

  94. This has probably been noted by others but Obama says it is “insane” to let people on the no-fly list haveguns. You can endup on the no-fly list by traveling to certain countries, presumably like Pakistan, or having links to terrorists and even controversial online posts. These terrorists had all of these but I bet they weren’t on the no-fly list.

    Meanwhile, what’s really insane is letting in refugees from countries like Syria that we can’t know anything about and who qualify for no-fly lists by definition.

    DRJ (15874d)

  95. What’s really insane is Obama. He IS the chicken coming home… to roost!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  96. 76. I don’t care what Muslims think. I care what they do.

    Which doesn’t mean there is no value in trying to understand people’s beliefs and attitudes. There is, just as there is value in studying history and sociology and other disciplines. Ultimately, though, the issue is whether or not they will conform their behavior to something we can live with, regardless of what motivates them to do it.

    DRJ (15874d) — 12/5/2015 @ 6:57 am

    DRJ, if you don’t understand what Muslims think, you’ll never be able to figure out what they’re likely to do, and when they’re likely to do it.

    I give you as Exhibit A our preezy, Imam Obama, Muslim apologist in chief. Assuming he really does no nothing about Islam, which is unlikely but for the sake of argument, he is constantly making incredibly stupid pronouncements about the Islamic State. For instance, he’ll say something along the lines of, “No religion advocates the killing of innocents” and “Most of ISIL’s victims are their fellow Muslims” when IS guns down captured Syrian soldiers, burns a Jordanian pilot alive, and terrorizes the towns it captures by beheading and crucifying the residents.

    To say that no religion advocates the killing of innocents is like saying the sun rises in the east. The question is, who does Islam consider innocent or guilty? And when it comes to killing “their fellow Muslims,” who does Islam consider Muslim?

    Islam does not consider apostates and heretics to be either innocent or Muslim. Those are the people IS is killing. One might argue with their interpretation of Islam (although I wouldn’t recommend it if you live in the territory they occupy) but they are correct in that the punishment for anyone who leaves Islam, i.e. an apostate, is death.

    See the hadith collection of Sunan abu Dawud, Vol. 40, Prescribed Punishments, chapter 1, Ruling on one who apostatizes.

    After the Charlie Hebdo, Imam Obama made noises to the effect the massacre had nothing to do with Islam, that no religion condoned what those killers did.

    Oh, yes, there’s one religion that does. See the hadith collection of Sunan abu Dawud, Vol. 40, Prescribed Punishments, chapter 2, The ruling regarding one who reviles the prophet.

    Guess who was getting their Islam correct, and who wasn’t? Speaking of which, good luck with devout Muslims conforming their behavior to something we can live with (except the Ahmadiyya, whose Islam is no problem whatsoever). Because no devout Muslim can conform their behavior to a society that will damn their soul to hell by requiring them to turn their backs on Allah’s commandments.

    MAJ Hasan gave a detailed explanation to his colleagues about why he was going to have to kill them if the Army made him go to the sandbox where he would be a party to the killing of his fellow Muslims. It was very detailed, it cited all the relevant Islamic sources, and it was theologically correct. If the Army put him in the position of choosing country over Allah, he was going to save his soul and choose Allah. And, he carried out exactly what he said he was going to carry out.

    The Army, and indeed the Pentagon and the entire executive branch, are full of people who don’t care what Muslims think and are entirely uninterested in why they think it. These people project their own attitudes onto Muslims. They don’t take the Bible seriously, so how can anyone take that mumbo jumbo in those Islamic holy texts seriously?

    Michael Adebolajo wasn’t quite as scholarly in his extemporaneous speech after he helped his friends run down and hack Drummer Rigby to death in London. Still, if anyone was familiar with Islam they understood exactly why he did what he did, and that it indeed is an obligation. He said he is “forced by the Quran” specifially by chapter 9, At-Tawbah, to kill British soldiers. At-Tawbah is full of exhortations to Muslims to fight in Allah’s way. It really doesn’t do much else other than command Muslims to kill and subjugate the unbeliever. Oh, yeah, At-Tawbah does take a break from commanding Muslims to kill and subjugate the unbeliever to accomplish one other task. To condemn Muslims who fail to live up to this obligation to hell.

    Surah 9:81 – 85 At-Tawbah (The Repentance)

    Those who remained behind rejoiced in their staying [at home] after [the departure of] the Messenger of Allah and disliked to strive with their wealth and their lives in the cause of Allah and said, ‘Do not go forth in the heat.” Say, “The fire of Hell is more intensive in heat” – if they would but understand. So let them laugh a little and [then] weep much as recompense for what they used to earn. If Allah should return you to a faction of them [after the expedition] and then they ask your permission to go out [to battle], say, “You will not go out with me, ever, and you will never fight with me an enemy. Indeed, you were satisfied with sitting [at home] the first time, so sit [now] with those who stay behind.” And do not pray [the funeral prayer, O Muhammad], over any of them who has died – ever – or stand at his grave. Indeed, they disbelieved in Allah and His Messenger and died while they were defiantly disobedient. And let not their wealth and their children impress you. Allah only intends to punish them through them in this world and that their souls should depart [at death] while they are disbelievers.

    Note how easy it is to apostatize in Islam; those who didn’t go out and fight one day are no longer believers. Michael Adebolajo like Nidal Hasan did not want to be among of the disbelievers. Islam does indeed give them a stark choice, or forces them in the words of Adebolajo. If they wanted to avoid hellfire and attain paradise they must do what their religion commands. Again, Islam means submission. It doesn’t give those who submit a choice.

    There’s more I could go into to observe that Adebolajo and Nidal Hasan were doing exactly what their religion commands, and they were doing it how they are commanded to do it. But there’s no need to go into it further to make my point. If a non-Muslim country is going to send its military against a Muslim majority country’s forces and perhaps invade that country, you can expect your share of Adebolajos and Hasans. And generally speaking they’ll flag themselves before they explode, so its criminal negligence to fail to take the warning signs seriously.

    Speaking of flagging themselves, al-Qaeda and IS have very professionally done glossy propaganda magazines. Inspire is the English-language version of AQ’s magazine. IS’s is called Dabiq. They practically lay out their plans in those things, as well as on social media. But unless you understand the ideology you’ll never figure out the references. Unfortunatley the Obama administration has caved to the Organization of Islamic Cooperation’s demand that counterterror analysis be categorized as a form of Islamophobia. So any analyst who was capable of doing actual counterterror analysis has been s***canned as an “Islamophobe.”

    There is really no point in caring about what Muslims do unless you understand what Muslims think and why. If you’re not going to do the latter, you might as well just wait quietly for your beheading. And by “you” I mean the nation as a whole. I don’t mean every single individual, as it would be a huge waste of time considering most people have actual lives and responsibilities of their own. But I am appalled that people don’t understand even kindergarten level facts about the politico-religious ideology that has declared war upon us. That’s why I keep harping on the Sunnah. It seems to me that nearly a quarter of a century after the Sunni extremists of AQ made their first attack on the WTC it should be common knowledge that the key to understanding that ideology is not going to be found in the Quran. I’m not suggesting everyone should know something about the Sunnah, just that it exists and it’s the Sunnah that actually guides these people, with the Quran acting as a vitally important support.

    Steve57 (a13395)

  97. You didn’t. I did, in order to exclude illegel residents. I am getting the feeling that maybe you have been battling so many leftists of late that you are tempted to think I am putting words in your mouth, when these words are only my own. Stand down, sir, no need for friendly fire.

    I know that, felipe, I was being smart but obviously it wasn’t as clever as I thought. I apologize.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  98. 94.I don’t know why there should be an exception for spouses and fiancees. Look what that just got us.

    Notice nk, the spouses and fiancés are 1) vetted and 2) from friendly allied countries, not terrorist hotbeds.

    Immigration should be strictly to fulfill our labor needs.

    Agreed. Therefore until every able bodied American is thrown off assistance of ay kind and employed we need no immigrants. So let it be written, so let it be done!

    They can send money to their wives and girlfriends back home and fly there on their vacations for conjugaling.

    I along with felipe are fascinated with your command of the language and will perpetuate the use of the verb: conjugaling. Thank you, nk. 🙂

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  99. “syrian refugee” is just the NPR pronunciation of “terrorist”

    And yes yes this should inform policy

    happyfeet (831175)

  100. Once again Steve57, you have explained the mind and very existence of a moslem. Is anybody out there listening? Hello! First shake off the leftist notion that all cultures are good, they’re not. Secondly, get rid of the notion that because we have Freedom of Religion we can’t fight back when a pseudo-religion declares war on us. Nobody in America has the Freedom of Religion to murder their neighbors. That’s plain stupid.

    So once more: thank you Steve57.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)


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