Patterico's Pontifications

11/21/2015

Democrat: ISIS Would Not Be So Strong If U.S. Did Not Topple Dictators

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 11:18 am



See? It’s not impossible for me to agree with a Democrat:

Democratic National Committee Vice Chairwoman Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii) told CNN’s Jake Tapper Friday that the Islamic State would not be a[s] strong as it is today if the United States had not overthrown Middle Eastern dictators.

Gabbard voiced her opinion after being pressed by Tapper for suggesting the U.S. shouldn’t be working to topple “blood-thirsty tyrant” Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

“The same things were said about Saddam Hussein in Iraq; the same things were said about Gadhafi in Libya,” Gabbard said. “Look at the state of these countries today — they have been overrun and are filled with chaos.

“ISIS and Islamic extremist groups have grown stronger in these countries and are terrorizing the people there,” the congresswoman continued.

She’s right.

There are no solutions, only trade-offs.

In the past 10-12 years, we have made bad trade-offs.

168 Responses to “Democrat: ISIS Would Not Be So Strong If U.S. Did Not Topple Dictators”

  1. nonono

    failmerica purposely left a void in the wake of these dictators

    and now the flappy poultry is coming on home

    coming home to roost!

    and when you failmericans get slaughtered by obama’s syrian refugee terrorist horde

    my gosh who coulda seen that coming here hold my hot chocolate a sec I’m a get you a therapy pup

    happyfeet (831175)

  2. 12 years this country will regret forever and beyond.

    mg (31009b)

  3. So, the solution is to impose a viceroy and rule with an iron fist?

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  4. Nope. The “solution” is to mind our own business unless we are being attacked.

    But again: there are no “solutions.” Only trade-offs.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  5. When one simply wants power to rule and has no other ideas overriding to guide their daily activities,
    it is very easy to never be speechless because what you say today never has to be consistent with what you said yesterday or will say tomorrow.

    Always squiggling and difficult to pin down.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  6. Trade-offs? Afghanistan was a trade-off. We brought down the Soviet Union, under whose we had trembled for forty years, at the expense of having the Taliban step in to fill the power vacuum.

    But Iraq, Libya and now Syria? What have we gotten in the trade?

    nk (dbc370)

  7. under whose *nukes*

    nk (dbc370)

  8. Hussein was captured for violating the ceasefire and stood trial for his crimes against humanity. The military and State Department performed exemplary work in stabilizing Iraq before the Obama administration’s premature withdrawal. It’s a shame that we could not invest the same time and resources there as we have done in other countries post-WWII. Islamic State would not be so strong if we had stood our ground with our allies and finished our mission.

    Then there is the current policy of staging coups, assassinating heads of state, backing/suppling terrorist groups, denying responsibility and treating/exacerbating symptoms (e.g. refugee crisis), etc. It takes us back to the days of Clinton where we would poke people until they bled and bribe them through establishment of Islamic states in Europe.

    Hussein chose his fate with invasion of a sovereign state and failure to reform. The other people were deposed for being politically incorrect.

    n.n (f0c118)

  9. i can’t believe i pay taxes for this fiasco

    happyfeet (831175)

  10. The British have a historic obligation to Egypt. We do not.
    The French have a historic obligation to Syria and Lebanon. We do not.
    (Though one can easily argue that the obligation of the European powers to those countries has long since expired.)

    I like Tulsi Gabbard. She’s a veteran and a very sensible thinker with respect to foreign policy. The GOP would do well to take her seriously and listen to what she has to say.

    JVW (d60453)

  11. she left off Mubarak in Eqypt.

    jb (9cf899)

  12. we never learned the lesson from afghanistan, support the likes of massoud over hekmatyar and raisul sayyaf, in libya, there was so such a figure, in general heftar, and we give him the stink eye,

    narciso (732bc0)

  13. …the same things were said about Gadhafi in Libya,” Gabbard said. “Look at the state of these countries today — they have been overrun and are filled with chaos…

    I’d be more sympathetic to the argument if the chief architect of what we did to cause chaos in Libya wasn’t the crown-princess candy-date of Tulsi Gabbard.

    …Gabbard voiced her opinion after being pressed by Tapper for suggesting the U.S. shouldn’t be working to topple “blood-thirsty tyrant” Syrian President Bashar al-Assad…

    Wasn’t my personal f’n red line, babe. Also it’s incredibly schizophrenic of a dem to bring this up considering how just five short years ago Kerry and Pelosi were playing Assad up as a reformer.

    But apparently the typical dem voter’s memory doesn’t go back five years cuz of the meth.

    It does however invite an interesting question. There is a saying in the Arab world that goes like this.

    Only the lion keeps the wolves away.

    Meaning, the tyrant keeps a lid on things so chaos Ms. Gabbard is beeyotching about doesn’t happen.

    So here’s the thing. Now we have millions of refugees clamoring to come to the West. The exact people Ms. Gabbard acknowledges require a dictatorship lest they commit sectarian violence on a massive scale.

    It’s a good idea to let them in, why?

    I mean, you can’t lament the fact we toppled dictators who kept a lid on these people AS THE DIRECT CAUSE OF THE CURRENT VIOLENCE (stupid cowboy George Bush) and say at the same time these “refugees” who can’t help but slaughter each other unless a dictator keeps them on a leash are harmless. Which is it?

    Steve57 (f9c99b)

  14. We needed a Harry S act of civility on 9-12 in effgrannystan.

    mg (31009b)

  15. Gabbard should clean-up her own backyard although it is refreshing to hear a Democrat who shouldn’t be declared legally insane, ball-gagged and put in a straight jacket.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  16. hawaii – freeloader sanctuary

    mg (31009b)

  17. Nope. The “solution” is to mind our own business unless we are being attacked.

    Currently watching “The Man in the High Castle” about the consequences of that kind of thinking.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  18. Hiking above Waimea Bay I noticed a rope tied off to a tree dangling over a cliff, Climbing down a few feet I observed a tent colony full of occuturdial looking individuals. Feces and toilet paper everywhere. The parks in Honolulu used to be full of soap starved, garlic neklaced freeloaders.

    mg (31009b)

  19. Let’s not forget that the current administration declared victory in Iraq. After that, every thing collapsed. So who is responsible for the current state of affairs? Not GWB, or else this administration wouldn’t have taken credit for what he accomplished.

    We are also very naïve if we falter at the prospect of losing 4,500 men over 4 years of struggle in a place like Iraq. A weak and vacillating foreign policy cost France about 200,000 men killed in six weeks of a failed defense. Being prepared for war and crushing ambitious dictators, including those we call theocrats, is expensive in lives and fortune, but it is nothing compared to the cost of neglecting both issues. War by hashtag is emblematic of too many people’s maturity and knowledge of history. What we think has almost no bearing on the ambitions of tyrants. It’s what we can, and plausibly will do that acts as a deterrent.

    BobStewartatHome (a52abe)

  20. Can somebody please explain the “middle east needs dictators to keep a lid on those people/let’s let them into the country” binary to me? I’m dying for it.

    Also, if Bruce Jenner can self-identify as a woman and Rachel Dozel can self identify as black why can’t ISIS self-identify as Islamic?

    Please advise. Sleepless in a suburb of Dallas.

    Steve57 (f9c99b)

  21. We are also very naïve if we falter at the prospect of losing 4,500 men over 4 years of struggle in a place like Iraq.

    Before Iraq I would have told you that we could never fight a war which didn’t have bipartisan support. After Iraq it appears that even when the Democrats support the war they are always on the verge of withdrawing that support. Therefore we can probably never fight a war ever again.

    JVW (d60453)

  22. Therefore we can probably never fight a war ever again.

    Certainly not without a declaration of war, and not only active promotion of the effort, but active suppression of internal dissent.

    n.n (f0c118)

  23. plus failmerica likes to make pee pee on top of the heads of what we jokingly call our “allies” for example canada and the uk and especially israel

    happyfeet (831175)

  24. and Poland.

    mg (31009b)

  25. yes yes someone please to get poland a fresh towel

    happyfeet (831175)

  26. Gabbard voiced her opinion after being pressed by Tapper for suggesting the U.S. shouldn’t be working to topple “blood-thirsty tyrant” Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

    When France’s leftist president was elected 3 years ago, I thought if he were worth a damn in at least one area, it would be his presumably kum-ba-yah approach to international affairs and his wanting France to take a hands-off approach to Syria and its president. But no. Holland has been a flop even in that area, although right-leaning officials there and here in the US regrettably will be, or have been, no better.

    The same “not worth a damn” situation applies to America’s leftist leader, since Barry could have formulated a principled isolationist policy to the Middle East in particular, but, as with Holland, he too hasn’t even been a good liberal when being a good liberal might not be such a bad thing.

    We’d be in better shape or more realistic if a greater number of Republicans/conservatives in particular shared the sentiments of Sarah Palin:

    abcnews.go.com, June 2013: Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin criticized the Obama administration’s decision to supply weapons to the rebels in the civil war in Syria today, arguing that the U.S. should “Let Allah sort it out” until there is a stronger leader in the White House.

    “Militarily, where is our commander in chief? We’re talking now more new interventions. I say until we know what we’re doing, until we have a commander in chief who knows what he’s doing, well, let these radical Islamic countries who aren’t even respecting basic human rights, where both sides are slaughtering each other as they scream over an arbitrary red line, ‘Allah Akbar,’ I say until we have someone who knows what they’re doing, I say let Allah sort it out,” Palin said at the Faith and Freedom Coalition Conference.

    Mark (f713e4)

  27. fortunately Sarah resigned her governorship so we’re expect great things from her real soon

    happyfeet (831175)

  28. It’s refreshing to see a Dem who’ll break ranks with her party. I commend her for that.

    Especially Libya… it’s hard to find a Dem who’ll admit what a fiasco that was.

    As for Iraq… a lot of Dems love to put all the blame for that on Republicans (and thus ignore Obama’s rile in pulling out). But even if we exclude Obama, just how many current presidential candidates on either side were actually involved in launching that war? As near as I can tell, one, who voted for it in the Senate. Her name is Hillary Clinton – a fact I doubt the MSM will ever dare mention.

    However, we can’t, rationally, blame Dems alone for all the foreign policy disasters of the Obama years. Let’s not forget the few Republicans who joined in calling for taking out Kadaffi, thus giving the Dems the “bipartisan” cred they needed to launch that war. For example, having a Republican member of the Senate Foreign Relations committee publicly back Hillary and Obama during the days before the Libya war (and then during it) was critical. McCain was also calling for the Libya war, but he wasn’t on the foreign relations committee. The guy who did this is now running for President (Marco Rubio).

    Then there’s the Hillary/Obama aided overthrow of Mubarak, which bought the Muslim Brotherhood to power in Egypt and kicked off the Arab Spring disaster. What did Senator Rubio have to say about that? Rubio called for Mubarak’s resignation, and then when Mubarak fell, Rubio’s official announcement was this;
    “This is an historic moment for Egypt and the Middle East. For perhaps the first time in its long history, Egypt’s government has listened to and heeded its people’s legitimate demands for greater freedoms and an end to corruption. This is an opportunity for the Egyptian people to chart a new, more hopeful and democratic future. Today’s events should hearten those struggling for greater freedom and respect for human rights in our own Hemisphere.”

    Foreign policy matters. IMHO, Republicans who disapprove of Hillary/Obama foreign policy would be well advised to look at the foreign policy records of the R candidates, and pick one who wasn’t cheerleading for Team Hillary/Obama when they were launching utter fiascos.

    Arizona CJ (331a26)

  29. Yes goose and maverick asserted to the Libyan incursion, so did rand to a degree.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  30. *expecting* i mean

    happyfeet (831175)

  31. Certainly not without a declaration of war, and not only active promotion of the effort, but active suppression of internal dissent.

    Well, I certainly would have declared a state of war existed on Sept 12, 2001. Not only to state the issue clearly, but so that any special wartime measures are clearly marked as such. We had some fairly severe wartime restrictions during WW2 (rationing, internment, labor rules, etc), and when the war ended, they did too. (For the most part — taxes stayed high for quite some time.)

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  32. I note some folks here, and on other blogs, who were definitely in support of the Iraq war in 2003 who aren’t any more, to the point of hypocrisy. Defeat is an orphan, I guess.

    Yes, Iraq fell apart. But it mostly fell apart because there was no follow-though. Not only the unnecessary adventure in Libya (which destabilized most of north Africa), but the inability to react in Syria in any capacity. Early on we could have done anything there, including swapping Alawite dictators. But we let the cancer grow and metastasize into Iraq. Leaving Iraq, which was done for crass political grandstanding, was more than stupid, it was felonious. And it left us with no way to influence events except to send money and hope no one stole it (the did).

    None of what happened there was Bush’s fault. He SAID that if we do this, we had to stay the course. Perhaps he should have known better and expected less of the American people, but there you have it.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  33. Even Jimmy Carter says Obama screwed it all up.

    http://abcnews.go.com/ABCNews/jimmy-carter-obama-waited-long-isis/story?id=26050505

    “First of all, we waited too long. We let the Islamic state build up its money, capability and strength and weapons while it was still in Syria,” Carter said in an October 7 interview with the Fort-Worth Star Telegram, “Then when [ISIS] moved into Iraq, the Sunni Muslims didn’t object to their being there and about a third of the territory in Iraq was abandoned.”

    Carter said ground troops could enable the mission to succeed, but that troops would only help Iraq, not Syria, where ISIS originated.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  34. billy made more sense than jimee.

    mg (31009b)

  35. jimmy carter is like the ghost of Christmas Fail what haunts failmerica while trashy sluts at yale screech into the wind and the unrelenting snow keeps on falling falling falling

    he went to annapolis lol

    happyfeet (831175)

  36. the U.S. shouldn’t be working to topple “blood-thirsty tyrant” Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

    I’m not sure you agree with that part of what Tulsi Gabbard said.

    That’s not what this guy said: (but might be close to what you said)

    http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/why-a-syrian-civil-war-would-be-a-disaster-for-u.s.-national-security

    Robert Satloff
    Also available in New Republic
    June 8, 2012

    If Syria descends into the chaos of all-out civil war, it’s not only Syrians who will lose out, as Annan suggests. Very clear American interests are also at stake.

    He gives 5 possibilities. Four of them have not happened – but No. 5 in this parade of possible horribles did.

    What didn’t happen? (and maybe was not realistic anyway)

    1. Syrian Army units didn’t let the chemical weapons get loose (This was a big concern of U.S. policymakers though, and more or less resolved by Putin, who did it to prevent U.S. anti-Assad U.S. intervention. Putin wasn’t taking any chances it might not get an bigger than pinpricks. By the way, I didn’t understand why some people considered that the Assad regime was a so much better custodian of chemical weapons than others.)

    2. Syria did not help the PKK launch a new insurgency against Turkey (we think)

    3. Syria did not push out Palestinian refugees to Jordan, Lebanon and even Israel. (but plenty of other non-radicalized people did leave – about one quarter of the population of Syria – and another quarter is displaced. 3% to 4% of the population of Syria is in Europe.)

    4. Syria did not re-start the civil war in Lebanon. (But maybe that required some effort to prevent.)

    But number 5 is a different story:

    Thousands of jihadists descend on Syria to fight the apostate Alawite regime, transforming this large Eastern Mediterranean country into the global nexus of violent Islamist terrorists.

    Close. Although he didn’t figure on a jihadist organization taking shelter and building its strength in Syria when defeated in Iraq. In fact this organization had already taken shelter in Syria when he wrote that! And apparently nobody considered any of our business that they went there – they were only about 700 strong anyway. That they were out of Iraq, that was the important point. They didn’t stay out of Iraq.)

    What did Satloff say to do?

    But it is reasonable to ask whether prevention — in the form of outside intervention — will itself trigger some of these scenarios. Might it be better to let the current fighting take its course and not stir up the hornet’s nest even more?

    The answer is no. Left to its own, the Syrian rebellion may eventually succeed in bringing down the Assad regime, but the key to preventing these negative outcomes is speeding up the pace of change…Time is not an ally.

    He said they had to bring the regime down but also upgrade the cohesion of the Syrian political opposition and answer the important question of what comes in the wake of Assad’s demise, even though “a peaceful, inclusive, representative Syria anytime soon — one hesitates even to use the word “democratic” — is a fantasy.”

    Sammy Finkelman (4d9cfa)

  37. troops would only help Iraq, not Syria, where ISIS originated.

    ISIS didn’t originate in Syria! It originated in Iraq. This is the former al-Qaeda in Iraq.

    The top people running ISIS are Iraqis.

    The next most trusted are Palestinians from Gaza. (because their “home country” would not send them there as spies, and Israel presumably would be more interested in keeping any agents in Gaza) This is probably a special sub-group. They may be on the complete outs with Hamas, and have no home country to return to.

    The next level is people who have been arrested and imprisoned for terrorism related crimes and whose prison-mates vouch for them.

    The next level is people who have done things no spy agency would let its spies do, like seriously risk their lives in war, or (for western countries) commit human rights violations, or who have done things that no foreign spy agency was at the time letting its agents do.

    The next level is local people, who have always been local people, and couldn’t have been recruited.

    Sammy Finkelman (4d9cfa)

  38. Kevin M (25bbee) — 11/21/2015 @ 4:15 pm

    I did not trust the Kuwaiti propaganda during Gulf I.
    I did not trust the Soros propaganda during the Kosovo Wag-the-Lewinski.
    I trusted the Halliburton propaganda during Gulf II because of 9/11. 9/11 was like a blow on the head. But I have since recovered.

    And it was not only Obama who screwed up the aftermath. It was screwed up by the Shrub’s de-Baathification policy which put Iran-friendly and totally worthless Shiites in charge, and turned the Sunnis into a hostile minority out of which ISIL/ISIS sprang.

    nk (dbc370)

  39. Well jimmah toppled the shah, which led to the Iran iraq war, also it provoked the grand mosque siege, which the French settled but it caused the kingdom to appease the ilkwan further.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  40. i got your shiite right here

    happyfeet (831175)

  41. oh.

    maybe it’s in the kitchen

    happyfeet (831175)

  42. Because the special republican guard were so upstanding, they were in charge of the anfal against the kurds, as half a century ago, they did to the Assyrians.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  43. Say we had invadef the kingdom instead of afghanistan, the first time around, well besides it would have been portrayed as a war on islam, and oil prices might have doubled, there’s the matter that the sauds are more hospitable then thrntribes

    narciso (a1aef7)

  44. The Afghanistan invasion was needed. We could have handled Tora Bora better, such as dropping a half-megaton nuke on it.

    nk (dbc370)

  45. remember though failmerica is a country what has a devil of a time keeping twinkies in production

    happyfeet (831175)

  46. Applause, nk.

    mg (31009b)

  47. put another way

    failmerica can’t effing handle puerto rico

    yes yes

    the homeland of ricky martin is too much for failmerica to handle

    this is because failmerica is a joke anymore

    knock knock

    who’s there

    ivy league slut

    oh yeah you forgot your mattress

    would you mind please dragging it to the door?

    oh sure no problem – two shakes of a lamb’s tail

    happyfeet (831175)

  48. That’s a grossly oversimplified conclusion, and ignores everything that happened from point A to point B.

    Of course that’s this gal’s objective. She doesn’t want you to deal with the present problem.

    No one overthrew Assad. Assad gassed his own people and terrorism has been aroutsince before the Ottoman Empire–George Bush didn’t “create” it.

    DRG (76b104)

  49. what exactly *did* George Bush create?

    happyfeet (831175)

  50. besides fail

    happyfeet (831175)

  51. Edit:has been *around* since the Ottaman Empire. Thanks to globalization, the Information Age and modern technology–it’s coming to a theater near you.

    DRG (76b104)

  52. Happyfeet

    How do you propose to defeat ISIS–now?

    DRG (76b104)

  53. There’s also another detail Mrs gabbard missed, many on the is or nus ra players like golani, were protected by Syrian security while they targeted coalition forces in iraq. Having given the scorpion a ride, they are surprised they were stung

    narciso (a1aef7)

  54. i will defy them by enjoying different foozles and not watching cnn

    you have a better plan?

    happyfeet (831175)

  55. Sure–stick a flower in a gun and light a candle–then ISIS will love you back.

    Plus they might spare you because you have “I hate George Bush” tramp-stamped across your ass. (Better get it written in Arabic, however.)

    DRG (76b104)

  56. Another question is where did those 500 million dollars earmarked for the rebels really go, the sauds sacked Bandar because of his part in the mismanagement but then replaced him with his counterpart at the defense ministry.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  57. you put the boom boom into my heart

    happyfeet (831175)

  58. 50.Edit:has been *around* since the Ottaman Empire. Thanks to globalization, the Information Age, political correctness which forbids otherwise intelligent people from excluding terror causing moslems from entering America and modern technology–it’s coming to a theater near you.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  59. I didn’t think it was possible that Democratic voters, especially in a liberal enclave like Hawaii, could elect a Tulsi Gabbard. Good for her. And good for all the Democrats who voted for her. Will she be one-and-done? With positions like this, I’d bet.

    Gabbard was home-schooled.

    ThOR (a52560)

  60. Another question is where did those 500 million dollars earmarked for the rebels really go…

    ******
    That is a damn good question. Doubt our media is investigating it, and if they do–they’ll sit on the results. They wouldn’t want to hurt Hillary’s chances to get elected.

    DRG (76b104)

  61. boosh appointing wolfowitz may have been as bad as appointing useless judge roberts.
    sheesh.

    mg (31009b)

  62. Figures –you’re a George Michael fan. Must you have bad taste in everything?

    DRG (76b104)

  63. I understand the argument that we shouldn’t try to nation-build, and I agree with that argument. But why was Iraq a mistake? We won, and even Biden called it a “great achievement.” Just because Obama squandered what America accomplished in Iraq doesn’t make it a mistake.

    DRJ (15874d)

  64. How do you propose to defeat ISIS–now?

    By sending a ton of money to Mitch McConnell’s super-PAC. Jeb Bush’s, too.

    nk (dbc370)

  65. Well that raised a further question, the Asian bubble bursting thanks to soros, toppled suharto in Indonesia and unsettled many of the regime’s in the region, allowing aq to flourish from Indonesia to the phillipines

    narciso (a1aef7)

  66. How do you propose to defeat ISIS–now?

    By sending a ton of money to Mitch McConnell’s super-PAC. Jeb Bush’s, too.

    nk (dbc370) — 11/21/2015 @ 6:26 pm

    *********

    You do know Obama is Commander in Chief?

    Do you understand that foreign policy is mostly the purview of The Executive?

    DRG (76b104)

  67. I don’t think that we got anything worth anywhere near the lives of 4,425 American soldiers killed and 32,223 wounded in action (as of 2012) out of it, DRJ.

    nk (dbc370)

  68. A silly question deserves a silly answer, DRG. That “What would you do?” is the kind of crap the left throws to counter criticism of Obama. My answer always is “I voted for Romney”.

    nk (dbc370)

  69. Mia Love throws down for Rubio… http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/11/mia-love-endorses-marco-rubio/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  70. What about Thailand? I was looking at the follow up to the Bangkok bombings–and they are saying that it is connected to The Grey Wolves in Turkey and retribution for the Uighars that Thailand repatriated to China. There’s also–supposedly–a Chechen connection to The Grey Wolves. As there are Chechens involved with ISIS.

    DRG (76b104)

  71. Obama, Kerry and Soros: Teh Three Stooges of The Apocalypse.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  72. nk

    Bull. You don’t think dealing with ISIS should be debated during the election process for leader of the free world? That’s a rhetorical question.

    DRG (76b104)

  73. Well retreating from iraq, had several noxious impacts, it put Maliki more in the debt of the iranians, which considering he had lived a decade in syria, printing pamphlets was illconsidered. Consequently many of those who worked with us in the surge were either hunted down or forces into exile.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  74. Yes that’s possible, the grey wolves connection seems a but of a syreth.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  75. As a first step, I would apologize to Assad and stop treating him like an enemy and more as an ally.

    nk (dbc370)

  76. Are you Russian?

    DRG (76b104)

  77. Saddam’s Iraq helped Sunni insurgents and al Qaeda. If America hadn’t done something about Iraq, the Sunni insurgents (modern-day ISIS and its predecessors) would have been able to use Iraq as a base to attack the West from 2002-2010, instead of just the last 4-5 years as we’ve seen under Obama’s feckless leadership.

    DRJ (15874d)

  78. I’d rather fight them in the Middle East instead of in the West.

    DRJ (15874d)

  79. We did treat Assad–junior,the opthamologist as if he would be different from his father. We did fall for the gloss of his banker wife being able yo help him improve upon the situation in Syria, He ender gassing and barrel bombing his own citizens.

    DRG (76b104)

  80. roe under boosh was a total farce, he is responsible for soldiers not being able to fight like warriors.
    fricken lawyers everywhere in the war zone screwed our soldiers. And he never fixed the V.A.
    asshatery all the way around.

    mg (31009b)

  81. Really roe has been carp since Beirut through khonar towers to benghazi, whose fault is that?
    When dana priest got her Pulitzer re Walter reed, were there patients dying because they couldn’t get an appointment, thanks to that weasel.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  82. We fell for the hard-on that Hollande has for Assad, is what I think. This is so like Vietnam all over again. Fighting France’s colonial wars.

    nk (dbc370)

  83. Are you Russian?

    Funny you should ask. The only ones who seem to not have their heads up their you-know-whats these days are the Russians.

    nk (dbc370)

  84. roe under boosh was a total farce, he is responsible for soldiers not being able to fight like warriors.

    ********
    Well what is it like now? How long did we wait before bombing the road between ISIS territory in Syria to ISIS held oil fields in Iraq? How much revenue did ISIS make in the imterim? How many days did we drop pamphlets warning everyone in the area, –ISIS included –before we bombed the oil trucks making that run?

    DRG (76b104)

  85. boosh had the powers to change roe, but did not have the nuts to piss off the sand people. boosh also had the powers to rebuild Walter Reed, but no. Too busy with his plan of having one America. From Tierra del Fuego to the North Pole. Perhaps we do need someone in d.c. that knows how to build something, instead of the same meatheads who only know how to fail.

    mg (31009b)

  86. “the grey wolveth connection theemth a butt of a syreth.”

    FIFY

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  87. Roe is worse under whosane, no doubt, DRG.

    mg (31009b)

  88. The decision to deal with Saddam was made before Bush was president. There are several long posts here on why this happened. That is one.

    Mike K (41cd72)

  89. Jag corps are like a plague of hornets, through all administrations

    narciso (a1aef7)

  90. No prosecution takes place and no punishment is imposed under the UCMJ without the directive of Command Authority. And Command Authority is two and three stars out of West Point and War College, not lawyers.

    nk (dbc370)

  91. Annapolis and the Air Force Academy too.

    nk (dbc370)

  92. Osama’s base in Afghanistan enabled him to plan and carry out 9/11. Iraq would have provided a similar but much better funded safe haven for extremists to target the West, as Libya and Syria do today. I’m not saying that we have to fight in the Middle East but, as P says, it’s a trade-off and IMO it’s not foolish to fight there instead of here.

    DRJ (15874d)

  93. Very good post Mike k, of course you can’t fix net roots generated stupidity.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  94. Yes, but do it the Teddy Roosevelt way, not the Bush-Obama way. Use the 4-F strategy: Find them, fix them, foul them up, and forget them. Not get bogged down in 12 years of inconclusive skirmishing and counter-skirmishing, while your troops suffer the death of a thousand cuts.

    nk (dbc370)

  95. The only F that matters is Fighting to win, and that’s true for every war.

    DRJ (15874d)

  96. there are other Fs that matter you just prejudice

    happyfeet (831175)

  97. I just stepped out for a cigarette and watched five employees from the Chinese restaurant across the street trying to take the caked ice and snow off the rear window of a VW. Did they turn on the engine, open up the heat, and turn on the rear window defroster for five minutes? Nope. With the engine off and the car cold, they scraped at the ice and had one guy run in and out of the restaurant with glasses of (I presume) hot water. They were at it when I went outside and were still at it when I came back in. They qualify for jobs in the Obama administration, I think.

    nk (dbc370)

  98. I forgot to address the mind our own business plan. Not going to happen. Scapegoating is a simplistic argument that is very effective because even an irrational hater, or someone with a third grade education can understand it, and be manipulated by it. It worked for Hitler when he scapegoated the Jews, it works for the Democrats, it works for Arab dictators, and other dictators around the world when they scapegoat the United States. The terrorist organizations also scapegoat the United States. Take the example of the Arab Street and/or the uneducated under class of the Democrat voter base–one way for their rulers to escape responsibility and blame is to point at an outside enemy as the person or country that is to blame for everything. In the case of the United States it isn’t simply because we took actions to protect Kuwait, it is also because we are Christian, because we are “Hollywood”, because we are economically better off. You also would need to retreat from the global economy ,you could try to change everything about America till it no longer was America –and we will still be resented because you will never change the simplicity of hatred and its effectiveness when it comes to manipulating the masses, and the terrorists willingness to use it.

    DRG (76b104)

  99. hah i’m so glad no car own i

    and i can’t imagine how we did this before amazon pantry

    but it’s kinda fun to imagine

    happyfeet (831175)

  100. blah blah blah

    DRpickle (831175)

  101. Why are any of you arguing NONSENSE with LIBTARDS.
    ISIS is the JAY VEEEEEEEE. If they wear Kobe Bryant JERSEYS, it does not make them the LAKERS.

    Our fuktard Presidunce SAID THIS. If ISIS is a THREAT at all, it is because our MARXIST MORON in CHIEF is a complete fux up. AND HE IS.
    Obama and HORSE FACE KERRY have made it THEIR BUSINESS to pretend to be OH SO SMART, and by calling the JAY VEEEEEEEEE……ISIL…not ISIS.. They are SOOOOO MUCH SMARTER than you!!!!

    If ISIS is strong, it is EXACTLY because, Hussein Von Retard, DID NOTHING ABOUT THEM when they were small.

    Obama is less than a clown.

    GUS (7cc192)

  102. Some kind of Chinese fire drill, nk?

    mg (31009b)

  103. I will just say it is easy to second guess, especially if one ignores reality.

    Too often it is not what is best for the U.S. or the U.S. responsibility in the world that takes precedence, but the domestic power base of political parties.

    If there is a crisis like in Rwanda or Sudan and we don’t do much, we should have. If there is a crisis like the invasion of Kuwait and we do something we shouldn’t have, especially when the going gets tough.

    I must say, if Cruz puts forth the idea that we went into Iraq for WMD that were not there, I am very disappointed in him. I think it was clear it was past time to either deal with Saddam or acknowledge that the coalition against him had fallen apart, that the weapon inspection process was a joke, and if no one else wanted to live up to their commitments and responsibilities then neither would we.
    The problem was we had just seen what asymmetric warfare from a safe haven could do and being surrounded by two oceans didn’t mean what it used to.

    The world is in a post WWI mindset, by all means ignore what is happening until they have you by the throat and your existence is threatened, and even then if not for Churchill Europe would have stayed under Nazi rule until Hitler had so consolidated his victories he could have invaded England.

    Yes, in one way there are no “answers”, just tradeoffs,
    and human nature is to do what is easiest and most expedient at the moment, to he** with tomorrow,
    just like going into debt to avoid reality in the moment.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly, and out and about) (deca84)

  104. laughing, nk.
    Reminded me of seeing Rickles.

    mg (31009b)

  105. Freedom is not for everybody. Some folks need a firm hand on the tiller and a heavy boot on their neck.

    Willie Lee (026569)

  106. Too often it is not what is best for the U.S. or the U.S. responsibility in the world that takes precedence, but the domestic power base of political parties.

    I was watching Meet the Press just now. They seem to indicate that the Democrats foreign policy will be on “Islamophobia” and how Muslims are peaceful and we need as many refugees as possible.

    Interesting strategy. I wonder how it will do after the next terrorist attack ?

    Mike K (41cd72)

  107. MTP is still at it. Mean while, “pay no attention to that man behind the screen.”

    While it’s true fewer American Muslims are joining ISIS abroad, hold the applause. More are staying at home and plotting terrorist attacks here.

    Since July, the FBI has seen just a half-dozen US travelers trying to reach ISIS’ caliphate, a trickle compared with the dozens the agency was detecting in the preceding months. All told, more than 250 Americans have gone to Syria and Iraq to fight with ISIS.

    At the same time, investigators have seen a spike in the number of homegrown ISIS cases.

    “Nothing to see here. All is well. “

    Mike K (41cd72)

  108. Obama confuses fear with America’s sincere frustration with his refusal to extricate his cranium from his lower digestive tract and show some backbone.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  109. MD,

    I don’t view Cruz’s rationale as being that there were no WMDs, only that we should not go to war to nation-build. I think that was always Bush 43’s objective, primarily because he wanted a Western-sympathizing country to serve as a counterweight to Iran.

    DRJ (15874d)

  110. I don’t think progressives and the rest of America will ever agree on war or anything again. Progressives are too committed to the world the way they want it to be instead of the way it is. They also view leaders through that prism, which is why Obama is never wrong and Bush was never right. Our best hope is that enough Americans will see progressivism for the fraud and mistake it is.

    DRJ (15874d)

  111. Also, MD, I don’t think Bush 43 was wrong to make the effort to nation-build in the Middle East. In fact, it worked. But time has shown us that the American people and, more important, its leaders, don’t always have the stomach to finish the job. That’s a reality we have to accept and it’s why it was a mistake to do (in hindsight) and why it would be a mistake to try again.

    DRJ (15874d)

  112. Thanks DRJ, for two things,
    one the bit of info,
    and two a reminder of what I meant to say before but forgot.

    Afghanistan is another situation where whatever you do is wrong,
    once upon a time we assisted those ridding the country of the Soviets,
    then more or less left the place to the Afghani’s
    years later when we had to go back against the Taliban,
    the complaint was that they we didn’t stay and help stabilize (i.e., nation build) the country

    Most of the time there are good considerations for each of several options,
    but rarely does a discussion of those significant issues take place,
    instead its all posturing and sound bites to win a position and the influence that goes along with it.

    But selfish ambition is a great motivator and causes all manner of evil.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  113. Let’s beat up on Monica Lewinsky’s boyfriend a little. He brought about three Muslim states in Europe — Bosnia-Herzegovina, Skopje (Macedonia, yeah right), and Kosovo.

    nk (dbc370)

  114. After what the Dems did to undermine Bush and the country, I think it would be a waste of American lives and resources to do anything other than a limited short term involvement, anywhere, guaranteeing another world war instead of a fight for Czechoslovakia.

    Not enough have learned from history so far, so we keep repeating it.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  115. It could be that we won’t know for a decade or more whether or not the 2003 invasion was an appropriate response to Saddam Hussein’s evil activities in the region, but the Obama administration’s feckless actions/inactions ever since in Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan are to be condemned for what they are: preening malevolence… a reckless, clueless, seemingly mindless narcissism that has only shown a steel spine when it battles the strawmen arguments it has so ineptly constructed.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  116. Everyone links the borders in the ME drawn by the West after WWI to today’s chaos, but what alternative exists to those newly created states? Tribalism will not solve the warmongering there or even create nominal functioning states.

    Our brilliant Vladimir Putin knows that the old verity is true, that the winner will draw the new lines soon, and he intends to be that winner. After bombing out ISIS sites in a day and a half that we failed to touch in a year (a year!) then he sends an adorable police puppy to Paris to cement his standing in the hearts and minds of millions as leader of the free…er, well, leader of the world.

    And I would agree with DRJ that nation building is not necessarily wrong or futile, but we would need to stay for a generation and impose our own civic culture on theirs, like we did in Germany and Japan, where we exterminated equally virulent strains of mass insanity. Both of these things are impossible from a progressive, self-loathing America. So as Ralph Peters says,”unthinkable? Fine, we lose.”

    Patricia (5fc097)

  117. They seem to indicate that the Democrats foreign policy will be on “Islamophobia” and how Muslims are peaceful and we need as many refugees as possible.

    Beyond the issue of whether the US military should or shouldn’t deal with country A, B or C, it needs to get its own act together (if only culturally) by rejecting the mantra of political correctness and the corrupting nature of liberalism that has seeped into every nook and cranny of American life.

    If the military can’t see the folly of tolerating anti-US, pro-Sharia people enlisted in its own ranks or having others associated with the military prancing around in women’s high-heel shoes (yes, such a spectacle has been done by guys in uniform in order to demonstrate solidarity with women’s rights), then it’s even less prepared to be a caretaker in foreign shores.

    Obama’s America is a total mess in this regards, but, to be fair, the origins of some of that goes back to things like George W Bush’s notion of “religion of peace.”

    Mark (f713e4)

  118. I respectfully dissent.

    Dictators who are trying to assassinate a former U.S. president; who are using chemical weapons against their own population; who have a demonstrated history of pursuing nuclear weapons; who refuse to permit inspectors or cooperate in nuclear nonproliferation efforts; who are shooting every day (thankfully, without lethal effect) at American pilots enforcing a no-fly zone; who maintain standing armies far larger than they need for any defensive purpose, and who have a recent history of unprovoked military attack and seizure of weaker neighbors; and who are earning tens of billions of dollars in oil revenues — these are dictators in a special category, can we agree?

    With a troop commitment no greater, and indeed probably lesser, than we have kept in South Korea for the last 60-plus years or Germany for the last 70, we could have ensured that Iraq neither returned to the paths described above nor served as a haven for terrorism. Yes, the Iraq War represented a major sacrifice of blood and treasure, but: (1) That’s not the relevant question; rather the relevant question is how does that blood and treasure compare to that which we eventually would have had to commit to stop Saddam again (the next time we “got out of his box”). And: (2) In historical perspective, compared to the blood and treasure America has expended in earlier wars and post-war occupations, our casualties have modest. That makes them no less tragic in individual cases; a soldier killed in Ramadi is as dead as one who was killed at Iwo Jima. But there have been many, many single battles in American history with higher casualties than we’ve suffered in Iraq and Afghanistan combined since 9/11/01.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  119. TL/DR version: Freedom isn’t free.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  120. I agree with all of that, Beldar.
    And anyone against the war who was being intellectually honest about it would need to admit all of that and say it was in our interest to just stop the charade and let Saddam do what he wanted.
    And just admit we were going to let him continue to be a menace until he got so bad we couldn’t tolerate him anymore.
    But none of the critics will face those facts.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly, and out and about) (deca84)

  121. the narrative wins out, mark moyar, discovered in his research of russian and vietnamese archives that most every Halberstam wrote was wrong, and he shaped the policy behind the diem coup, it goes with outsaying that Sheehan, Browne and Prochnau were similarly wrong,

    narciso (732bc0)

  122. 113.Also, MD, I don’t think Bush 43 was wrong to make the effort to nation-build in the Middle East. In fact, it worked. …

    This is just delusional. It didn’t work at all.

    James B. Shearer (9a7a7c)

  123. 122

    And anyone against the war who was being intellectually honest about it would need to admit all of that and say it was in our interest to just stop the charade and let Saddam do what he wanted.

    Letting Saddam do whatever he wanted wasn’t the only alternative.

    James B. Shearer (9a7a7c)

  124. ISIS and similar groups would not have been on the rise (and for how long, I wonder) in Libya, Western Iraq, and Syria if local dictators were not so frivolous, corrupt, and weak.

    Saddam’s “faith campaign” and Ghadaffi’s support for African Islamic terror organisations provided material and ideological underpinnings for the groups that would merge to form ISIS (apparently a lot of Iraq’s Ba’athist officer corps was not as secular as the usual Democrat screamers insisted). The erosion of the steely but clannish Assad regime gave them a base from which to facilitate their operations.

    US foreign policy and international order are not well-served by brutally ambitious but hare-brained or brittle (or both) Middle Eastern “reformist” autocrats or their conniving, and often fratricidal, offspring.

    A better critique of US foreign policy might be why Washington’s calls for the toppling of relatively harmless Mubarak, followed by happy noises about the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood – which attempted to destabilise Jordan and whose leader, Morsi, had an idiot’s obsession with challenging Israel.

    JP (a11fdb)

  125. Well muammar supported nationalists like ira, action direct, il brigatte, raf, Saddam’s mukharabat did support Hezbollah and the north afrrican franchisr for aq, the gia

    narciso (a1aef7)

  126. James B. Shearer (9a7a7c) — 11/22/2015 @ 8:05 pm

    So, do you propose that tweaking the sanctions somehow was a better plan, or just removing Hussein and stepping out, or what?

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  127. narciso – not bad for a couple of glorified tinpots, eh? We really missed out on those Popular Islamic Conference lunch and learns.

    Ghaddafi bankrolled Charles Taylor and Idi Amin in their salad days.

    I suppose a US foreign policy realist might see less problem with his mucking about in Western and central Africa than his Cold War-era attempts to sow discord in Chad (e.g. the Toyota War) and Egypt (the Libyan-Egyptian ’77 spat), or his purported involvement in alleged assassination attempts on Saudi royals.

    JP (a11fdb)

  128. did anyone ask Gabbard WHO toppled the dictators Mubarak? Ghadafi? and is working on Assad? Who let Diem be assassinated? Isnt she a member of the same party (D)?

    sd harms (cf53b0)

  129. 129

    So, do you propose that tweaking the sanctions somehow was a better plan, or just removing Hussein and stepping out, or what?

    It was a while ago but I don’t recall any pressing reason to alter the status quo. The stated reason for the war, that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, was untrue. And the Bush administration didn’t have realistic plans for Iraq after Hussein. Just as the Obama administration didn’t have realistic expectations for Libya after Qadaffi.

    James B. Shearer (9a7a7c)

  130. No reason to alter the status quo, so you were completely willing to let him wipe his hairy arse with the sanctions that were in place, violating the sanctions with impunity, violating the prior cease fire, and basically do whatever he damn well pleased.

    JD (3b5483)

  131. The stated reason for war ….. James is lying.

    JD (3b5483)

  132. unclear to what end
    rehash of WMD scat
    then Shearer got sheared

    Colonel Haiku (fb7ea4)

  133. “I BLAME JOYCE CAROL OATES: Emails show DOD analysts told to ‘cut it out’ on ISIS warnings; IG probe expands.

    While the Obama administration has a lengthy history of ignoring or downplaying intelligence that doesn’t fit its own preconceived Middle East narratives, as Allahpundit notes, “Who sent the e-mails, though? Story doesn’t say.”

    http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/219660/

    Colonel Haiku (fb7ea4)

  134. What JD said.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly, and out and about) (deca84)

  135. Truly, md, the link at 132 is important in setting the table for what would come later.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  136. 135 136

    I don’t see the point in trying to deny that the Bush administration made a big mistake by claiming Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. It just makes you appear out of touch with reality.

    James B. Shearer (9a7a7c)

  137. the bush administration’s “big mistake” wasn’t remotely proportional to the outsized lust the faggy faggy anderson cooper candy crowley chubby chubby fag hag CNN network proved to have for seizing on the wmd issue to invalidate the deposing of their favorite dictator Mr. Shearer

    the bush admin’s big mistake was thinking a sleazy little pothead food stamp slut like Barack Obama would inherit a war and fight to win

    happyfeet (831175)

  138. How many mortars did halabja require, I reckon just a few,

    narciso (a1aef7)

  139. It was the consensus argument presented because much of the general assembly were terrorists at one point, and they didn’t care about the will of the people, plus practically every country had been involved in iraq’s armament, the UK and the us, having the smallest part (sepri report)

    narciso (a1aef7)

  140. I’d go and kill somebody I thought had tried to kill my father. If I could. The Shrub could. And he thought it was so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfmATUzBwxY At 1:17-1:22

    nk (dbc370)

  141. Reality check, Shearer…

    “From 2004 to 2011, American and American-trained Iraqi troops repeatedly encountered, and on at least six occasions were wounded by, chemical weapons remaining from years earlier in Saddam Hussein’s rule.

    In all, American troops secretly reported finding roughly 5,000 chemical warheads, shells or aviation bombs, according to interviews with dozens of participants, Iraqi and American officials, and heavily redacted intelligence documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.”

    Read more: http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/bombshell-new-york-times-reports-wmds-found-iraq/#ixzz3sNM7AdPG

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  142. There is no doubt that Saddam had tons and tons of poison gas that he used to kill a whole generation (no, that’s not an exaggeration) of young Iranian men. Kurds too.

    nk (dbc370)

  143. The point made, and ignored in the response, is that there were many problems to deal with even if Saddam had no WMD’s,
    But it is clear that there were even if not in the quantities expected
    They had precursors for rapid manufacturing
    They had long range missile components they were not supposed to have
    They had virus for potential biological warfare buried in a backyard

    One great unknown is why Bush did not demand that the truth be told.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly, and out and about) (deca84)

  144. faggy faggy anderson cooper

    Heh. So now you, happyfeet, who’s so enamored with the GLBT and SSM, yet who has often used “gay” pejoratively in the past, have decided to transition to using the “F” word and are even mocking a known homosexual for his sexuality? Just remember this moment in the future, hf, when there are ongoing discussions dealing with the reason that many people do wince — even apparently you — about the GLBT.

    BTW, your disdain for the liberal twerps at CNN, including Cooper, is totally justified. To honor such people, I post the following:

    washingtonexaminer.com, November 23: More than six in 10 Americans believe that the news media, followed closely by Hollywood, has a negative effect on the country, according to a new survey.

    An extensive new Pew Research Center survey finds that 65 percent believe that the news media “has a negative effect on the way things are going in the country.” Some 56 percent said the entertainment industry has a negative effect.

    Mark (f713e4)

  145. in the future i’m a remember this moment

    happyfeet (831175)

  146. There in lies the mystery md, the chemical caches were well hidden, they had 18 months to move them, a primary source curveball was a poorly handled asset of the bnd, steven grey only recently discovered this (Mr drumheller and murray obfuscated this)

    narciso (a1aef7)

  147. And some thing was in those trucks going to Syria…

    MD in Philly (not in Philly, and out and about) (deca84)

  148. Yes there are certainly indications of same, Jordan’s contribution, xarquawi mounted an operation with said weapons within a year.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  149. “And something was in those trucks going to Syria”

    Oh!… I know, I know! James Shearer’s credibility?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  150. What is a thimble for a 100 alex, is he part of the shearer clan, that have us voldemort?

    narciso (a1aef7)

  151. We are in the hands of total sh!theads.

    DNF (ffe548)

  152. “It was a while ago but I don’t recall any pressing reason to alter the status quo.”

    The status quo changes. Among other things, Saddam was noncompliant with various international treaties (as related above) and periodically mobilised troops (Hammurabi Division, etc.) to threaten his neighbours, including reliable and stable (for now) US and Western allies (Jordan, Kuwait), even under imminent US aerial and ground threat.

    There was little reason to expect the UN sanctions which purportedly (and did not, e.g. the Samoud missile programme – a WMD with a range of 150km+) kept him from expanding his WMD infrastructure would be extended into perpetuity. He had a track record of using chemical agents against domestic and foreign opponents and civilians.

    An orderly transfer of power from the de facto head of state and government to Saddam’s successors – presumably but not necessarily one of his sons – was by no means predictable or assured. Look at Assad’s response to the Arab Spring [Cleaning] in his country. Now imagine Saddam’s.

    Like Ghadaffi – and, more ominously these days, the Iranians – Saddam had a habit of playing hob with international maritime commerce in a key international waterway and invading less militarised neighbours. In what, exactly, were we to place any trust that he would not resume such activity with the fall of sanctions?

    And so on. That post-war planning for Iraq was so lacking doesn’t really negate the reasons for acting against Saddam.

    JP (0149b2)

  153. What JP said.

    I think that Chalabi guy had people thinking there was a much more mature cadre of people who could and would step up when Saddam was removed.

    We underestimate the snakes and scorpions that crawl out from under rocks to do evil when they see the opportunity.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly, and out and about) (deca84)

  154. 156. “That post-war planning for Iraq was so lacking doesn’t really negate the reasons for acting against Saddam.”

    Pere Boosh, fabulous resume, practical loozer.

    DNF (755a85)

  155. Well defense supported the exiles, state wanted super annuated dinosaurs like pachachi, and the via wanted general khazraji, like the bloodied assiciates of the valkyrie plot,

    State got their deal with bremer, who scotched the pudding.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  156. The entire object of war is to render peace as efficiently, with the least conflict and greatest resolution possible. Diplomacy is crap waged by the hegemon avoiding a poor fiscal quarter.

    The reason we failed in the ME is we did not kill nearly enough Sunnis, at no point were the bowed.

    Instead, as sicko noted, we tried a compassionate conquest, jagged up to incriminate us from the get go.

    Utterly, abysmally, schtoopid.

    DNF (755a85)

  157. Stipulated, the sunnis have been allied with the Germans through the golden square, the baath and the jayvees, which Orton shows they are just version 3.0

    narciso (a1aef7)

  158. 160.The entire object of war is to render peace as efficiently, with the least conflict and greatest resolution possible.
    –Yes, and we’re talking about the Middle East.

    Let’s keep our dreams small.

    JP (a11fdb)

  159. The reason we failed in the Middle East is the for the same reason we are failing in manufacturing, employment, education, health insurance, border control, crime control, the national debt, the federal and state budget deficits, the fight against obesity, the price of arugula ….

    nk (dbc370)

  160. …..gay rights, transgender rights, safe spaces, OWS, #Blacklivesmatter, 32oz drinks, The Redskins, trans fats, gluten and free birth control for Sandra Fluke.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  161. Good comments, JP.

    DRJ (15874d)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.1682 secs.