Saturday Open College Football Thread [UPDATE: Black Players at Mizzou Threaten to Go on Strike]
[guest post by JVW, encroaching upon JD’s territory]
Florida State gave #1 Clemson a pretty good contest, but with Clemson up by 10 now with 2:34 left it appears to be settled.
Iowa’s undefeated season was threatened by Indiana, but the Hawkeyes now seem to be on their way to pulling it out.
Slippery Rock pounded Clarion, 65-13.
Nobody in the Big XII can play defense worth a lick.
LSU and Alabama coming up.
Talk amongst yourselves.
[UPDATE, Sat. 10:00 pm Pacific] –Black players at the University of Missouri have announced they are going on strike and sitting out the rest of the season unless the university president apologizes for being insensitive to black students’ needs and agrees to step down. A graduate student (not related to the football team) is on a hunger strike seeking the same. It will be interesting to see how serious they are, and what if any repercussions follow. One source said that 30 out of the 84 scholarship athletes on the team would be joining the boycott.
– JVW
Let’s see what Ohio State looks like coming off of their bye week. They win, but they have been underwhelming most of the year.
JVW (738b08) — 11/7/2015 @ 3:57 pmExcellent game between Arkansas and Ole Miss – 22 seconds left, score tied at 45 each. Ole Miss trying to get in FG range.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:04 pmArkansas now has ball on own 51 with 9 seconds left.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:05 pmStanford back on track in a balanced win over Colorado after shoulda-losing in Pullman last weekend.
Mitch (bfd5cd) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:07 pm3 seconds left, Arkansas on 29 with freshman kicker in place to win game. 47 year attempt.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:07 pmBlocked kick – going to OT.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:08 pmStanford back on track in a balanced win over Colorado after shoulda-losing in Pullman last weekend.
I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a more up-and-down quarterback than Stanford’s Kevin Hogan. Some days he looks like John Elway, other days he’s bouncing passes three yards short of his receivers. I didn’t see the game today, but I take it he played well. Assuming the Cardinal get through Oregon and Cal, that match-up against Notre Dame on November 28 should be a great game.
JVW (738b08) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:12 pmHey! This Ole Miss – Arkansas game is fun!
JVW (738b08) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:19 pmI’m an unabashed Alabama fan, but I took LSU + 6.5 points. It was to good to pass up.
Arkansas’s last chance 4th and 25 to stay alive…completed pass, over the head lateral, first and goal on the 10.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:20 pmLast play (#9) under review…call on the field is Arkansas 1st down. Arkansas ball on 11 yard line.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:23 pmJVW, it’s been like this, well, almost like this, since the kick-off.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:25 pmProps to Arkansas for going for two and the win — they deserved it.
JVW (738b08) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:27 pmArkansas scores TD, goes for 2, QB gets tackled behind the line, but face mask penalty gives them another chance – and they go for 2 again!
They score the 2 points and win the game 53 to 52 over Ole Miss in OT. I need a drink.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:28 pmmy lil nephew wizzle got a football concussion to where they had to fill out special forms at school so they treat him like a momo
he’ll probably get better
I am so effing not amused
happyfeet (831175) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:30 pmNeither am I.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:35 pmSome researchers at Stanford are developing a mouthguard for football players with an accelerometer which feeds data on the impact of hits on players. Presumably the idea is that coaches and doctors will be able to see when a player is close to having a concussion.
JVW (738b08) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:35 pmwell i feel bad for you cause of how you are not amoozled it’s foremost in my thoughts on this gentle autumn night
happyfeet (831175) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:36 pmthat’s interesting but still this football thing is a really silly expenditure of human capital
all this pain and melodrama just to enrich some faggy executives at espn
happyfeet (831175) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:37 pmPermit me to doubt.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:39 pmnonono you cannot doubt this is a Safe Place
happyfeet (831175) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:39 pmWell, that will teach me some thing…
MD in Philly (not in Philly, and out and about) (deca84) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:44 pmI saw it was 4th and a mile and turned it off…
Don’t despair MD, the final few minutes will be on TV off an on all day tomorrow. It’s just too good to ignore.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:50 pmYes, ropelight, counting on it
MD in Philly (not in Philly, and out and about) (deca84) — 11/7/2015 @ 4:53 pmLSU and Alabama about to begin. Don’t miss a real SEC throwdown. This could be even better than the real thing.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 5:00 pmmaybe they need to be incentivized, shock collars perhaps, you would think their salaries would be enough,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/7/2015 @ 5:02 pmhappyfeet – the halftime music with the marching bands is must see t.v.
mg (31009b) — 11/7/2015 @ 5:08 pmok good point
and it does so much to advance a shared sense of culture
and lil nephew guy can still bake so there’s that (he made apple pie and sent a pic)
happyfeet (831175) — 11/7/2015 @ 5:11 pmPerhaps your misogyny, bigotry, and boorishness will make him ashamed of his heritage.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 5:22 pma la mode?
mg (31009b) — 11/7/2015 @ 5:25 pmThe Golden Gophers are on in prime time?
mg (31009b) — 11/7/2015 @ 5:32 pmHell has frozen over!
no it was just a pie
he likes to bake and feed people
he usually won’t eat too much of what he bakes
which is fine
he’s not manorexic or anything, just very cautious about food
we went to zombie burger and he wouldn’t touch the fried buffalo pork belly
and he’s very implacable and adamant about these stances, and his sister is much the same
this is not how i was raised, nor was his dad
we eat everything and we like it
so i guess we have to blame this on his mom
happyfeet (831175) — 11/7/2015 @ 5:35 pmOklahoma St laid the wood to TCU.
JD (34f761) — 11/7/2015 @ 6:24 pmgranddaddy coached at osu
i never met him that i can remember but i know he met me when i was little
he was not a nice person
he died in the snow
emphysemic p.o.s. going out for a cigarette on the ice wind-swept plains
and by this what he accomplished is he proovered himself a crappy estate-planner
TCU i think is where my mom got her masters in education
it’s such a small effing whirl
i miss living in america again
happyfeet (831175) — 11/7/2015 @ 6:36 pm*icy* wind-swept plains i mean
happyfeet (831175) — 11/7/2015 @ 6:38 pmThe ending to Michigan State – Nebraska was pretty interesting. Wonder how the officiating office will explain it on Monday.
My favorite part of all of these games is when the camera shows the pretty coeds in the stands. I must be getting really old.
JVW (738b08) — 11/7/2015 @ 7:52 pmWell, you may be gettin’ old, but obviously you ain’t dead yet.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 8:06 pmIs anybody going to watch Trump on SNL so I don’t have to?
nk (dbc370) — 11/7/2015 @ 8:08 pmnk, no effen’ way.
JVW (738b08) — 11/7/2015 @ 8:10 pmYa’ll can count on me. I’m only half liquored-up.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 8:16 pmJVW, The Magnificent Seven are on Encore Westerns now. Followed by The Magnificent Seven Ride.
nk (dbc370) — 11/7/2015 @ 8:27 pmJust saw in the NYT how and why mentioning Slippery Rock got popular. Started in 1959 when the public address announcer at the Big House, Michigan Stadium for youse left coasters, saw it mentioned in the wire news feed and liked the sound of it. It always got a big cheer when they were ahead or won from the 100,000+ attending. Now they do the same thing at Texas, Alabama, and Auburn among other schools; and now this blog!
dee (270619) — 11/7/2015 @ 8:37 pmAlabama wins 30 to 16.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 8:40 pmTrump’s first skit was a little less than half funny. His shtick is contrived, stiff, and predictable. He’s mocking himself.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 8:52 pmWell, A&M lost today.
I am not disappointed though. Because America can win again. Vote Ag80!/Dana?.
Because you really, really can’t lose. For the middle class. andfreethingsofcourse.com.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 11/7/2015 @ 8:55 pmFirst time watching SNL in about 10 years. They just did a Bad Girls skit that was stupid, anything but funny, and tedious to watch. What have I gotten myself into?
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 8:58 pm‘abandon all hope, ye who enter here’ they had a decent one from ’76, with Buck Henry and an omen parody,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/7/2015 @ 9:00 pmMy Comcast conked out after the local news so …. But NSL has not been good for decades, that’s true.
nk (dbc370) — 11/7/2015 @ 9:05 pmBooooring! I can’t do it. It’s piss poor TV. I’d rather watch Mesothelioma commercials.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 9:06 pmSia is singing. I don’t think she will vote for Ag80!/Dana?. For the children. andfreethingsofcourse.com.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 11/7/2015 @ 9:10 pmHowever, the epileptic might vote for Ag80!/Dana?. For climate change. andfreethingsofcourse.com.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 11/7/2015 @ 9:12 pm“I warned ye” groundskeeper voice.
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/7/2015 @ 9:14 pmThat’s it. No more for me. I’m embarrassed.
ropelight (fa5201) — 11/7/2015 @ 9:15 pmWilly voice.
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/7/2015 @ 9:15 pmVogon poetry is less painful.
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/7/2015 @ 9:16 pmInstead of watching Saturday Night Zombiefied, you should put together a performance of A Mid-Summer Night’s Dream in Klingonese.
John Hitchcock (7475b9) — 11/7/2015 @ 9:31 pmDead fat swans floating
nk (dbc370) — 11/7/2015 @ 9:32 pmOn a stagnant lily pond
Vote for Ag80
JT Barrett is named 1st string QB.
John Hitchcock (7475b9) — 11/7/2015 @ 9:33 pmJT Barrett drives with alcohol in his system, while under 21.
JT Barrett tries to bypass a sobriety checkpoint but fails.
JT Barrett gets suspended 1 game by the coaching staff.
Cardale Jones mediocres his way to a Buckeye win, with help from the Defense and their pick-six.
There’s a classic noir, ‘out of the past’ I dvred.
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/7/2015 @ 9:42 pmGet VPN, and watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOz1KMtJa7g
John Hitchcock (7475b9) — 11/7/2015 @ 9:46 pmIt’s well worth your time.
4 sisters from the Philippines are killing it on X Factor UK.
Black players at the University of Missouri have announced they are going on strike and sitting out the rest of the season unless the university president apologizes for being insensitive to black students’ needs and agrees to step down. A graduate student (not related to the football team) is on a hunger strike seeking the same. It will be interesting to see how serious they are, and what if any repercussions follow. One source said that 30 out of the 84 scholarship athletes on the team would be joining the boycott.
JVW (738b08) — 11/7/2015 @ 9:53 pmI got an idea. Strip all the scholarships from the 30 who refuse to abide by the scholarship. And send the hunger striker a rack of ribs and some cole slaw. Can’t forget the cole slaw, like Hawkeye Pierce did.
John Hitchcock (7475b9) — 11/7/2015 @ 9:59 pmBetter yet, play videos of Clarence Thomas’s confirmation hearing, Thomas Sowell’s speeches, Mia Love’s speeches. And record the audience. If any of them utter a slur, expel them. And if any of these strikers refuse to attend the mandatory videos, expel them, too.
John Hitchcock (7475b9) — 11/7/2015 @ 10:02 pmI love how the black students at Mizzou not only demand mandatory sensitivity training for all their fellow students (to which the administration has cravenly agreed), but they also demand that they get to create and administer the training session. Can you imagine what a horrible experience that would be to sit through?
JVW (738b08) — 11/7/2015 @ 10:03 pmHow does a hunger strike work if you are not a prisoner? Do you buy your #8 Supersize at McDonald’s and refuse to eat it?
I think I’ll go on a hunger strike, too, until my waist size 34 pants comply with my demands to button.
nk (dbc370) — 11/7/2015 @ 10:04 pmRemember what Angelina Jolie said to Brad Pitt after she and her girls zoomed from one skyscraper to the other on their 007 zip lines? That fits every one of those lunatics, students, faculty, and administration.
John Hitchcock (7475b9) — 11/7/2015 @ 10:07 pmAdded the Mizzou news as an update to the post.
JVW (738b08) — 11/7/2015 @ 10:18 pmRe: Mizzou:
If I was the AD, I’d call a team meeting. I’d announce in a gesture of compromise, that I would allow the students to miss one week of practice, and one football game in protest. If they missed one more day of practice, or one more game more than that if healthy, I’d yank their scholarships and mail them a copy of MLK Jr.’s Letter from a Birmingham Jail.
gahrie (12cc0f) — 11/7/2015 @ 11:41 pmDamn. Missouri better figure something out. My BYU Cougars are scheduled to play them next Saturday. I’d hate to see BYU play a depleted team. A forfeit would be even worse.
norcal (410384) — 11/7/2015 @ 11:56 pmI went to read the Missourian piece. The idiots tried to demand I answer a question to read it.
I == literally == told them to f*** off.
Like it was a privelege for me to read their article, so I had to earn the right or something.
Wow, the stupid must be pretty thick in Missouri these days.
IGotBupkis, "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses." (225d0d) — 11/8/2015 @ 1:13 amMissouri doesn’t show me sh*t.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/8/2015 @ 5:58 amidjit ball players
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/8/2015 @ 6:07 amgive me a break Missouri
shut the program down
On a more upbeat and positive note, did anyone but me watch the Midshipmen from Navy thump the #15 (or #13, depending on which poll you look at) team from Memphis? 45-20, 374 yard on the ground, an awesome 74 yard scoring strike, and three forced turnovers were the highlight.
The best part? If Navy finishes the season with a win over Houston and a win in the AAC title game, the whole college football world will likely be watching Army-Navy to see who will be going to what bowl. That would be awesome.
prowlerguy (3af7ff) — 11/8/2015 @ 6:31 amWhen I was a kid NAVY always played one of their games in the Oyster Bowl in Norfolk, Virginia, which was located on the campus of the Norfolk Division of William and Mary – now Old Dominion. I saw the great NAVY running back Joe Bellino, Heisman Trophy 1960, later played 3 years for the old AFL Boston Patriots. In HS Joe batted over .400 and played on the State Championship basketball team.
ropelight (45bbf9) — 11/8/2015 @ 7:26 amOne appropriate response would be to say that the services of the 30 black football scholarship holders are no longer needed. No need to suit up, eat what you want at the training table and come May 2016, your presence at the university will no longer be required, nor paid for.
Mizzou’s President may be a modern day Simon Legree, but he’s running the joint after all.
Comanche Voter (1d5c8b) — 11/8/2015 @ 8:03 amAfter reading JVW’s link, it appears black student protesters at Missouri are upset because one unidentified person in a pickup repeatedly yelled the N-word at a Missouri black student and, when student protesters confronted the Missouri President in his car during the Homecoming Parade about the incident, the President called the police to disperse the protesters instead of talking to them. As a result, the students want the President to resign and the all students, faculty and staff to have sensitivity training.
Am I understanding this correctly? Is there more to this story that I’ve missed?
DRJ (15874d) — 11/8/2015 @ 8:53 amThe two local teams, USC and UCLA, won yesterday. Meanwhile, LA perhaps will finally get pro-football by next year.
First time watching SNL in about 10 years.
Do people still watch that tripe decades after its shelf life expired?! Apparently.
Saturday Night Live is to very mediocre TV what the Democrat Party is to very mediocre politics.
Is the University of Missouri’s administration not leftwing enough for the black players?! They’d probably be happier enrolled at a school in Caracas, Venezuela, if not Havana, Cuba.
Mark (f713e4) — 11/8/2015 @ 10:10 ambecause one unidentified person in a pickup repeatedly yelled the N-word at a Missouri black student
If that person had instead yelled “Ben Carson is a house n—–r!” they’d have cheered him on and given him high fives.
Mark (f713e4) — 11/8/2015 @ 10:12 amDRJ – that’s about it, but now somehow the actions of one single Unidentified individual now speak to the racism of the President and the institution.
JD (34f761) — 11/8/2015 @ 10:39 amIf one of those football scholarship players was my child, I would politely inform them to get their butt back to class and practice, or find a job to pay for their tuition, room, board, and books.
JD (34f761) — 11/8/2015 @ 10:56 amAgain, this is the odd fruit that watering the academic vineyard with a mixture of lack of ownership, ignorance of the Wastern canon, oversensitivity, privilege, and a focus on categories. I don’t know what is going to happen.
The person from Yale who wrote that the Master needed to “stop instigating debate” is typical.
Simon Jester (a2b774) — 11/8/2015 @ 11:11 amAnd JD, I doubt you would be particularly polite. I would not be.
Simon Jester (a2b774) — 11/8/2015 @ 11:11 amI expected to find more there there when I read the article about the terrible transgressions they had to endure as Div 1 scholarship athletes. It turns out there were 2 instances where Unidentified individuals, in no way shown to be related to the University, were involved. There was one claim where a passenger in a truck yelled racist words out the window, shockingly, at an activist looking out for such transgressions. The other instance involved a heated exchange where the activists were preventing another person from being in an area, maybe it was supposed to be a safe space. At this point, these isolated incidents, and examples of tweets from anonymous individuals became the responsibility of the President of the University. In Order to calmly and rationally discuss their concerns, and over wrought demands, they chose to block the Homecoming parade, and got the vapors when the cops were called. What kind of world has been created for these precious snowflakes?
JD (34f761) — 11/8/2015 @ 11:41 amrevoke their scholarships, and replace the athletic awards with scholastic ones going forward…
redc1c4 (e40bc8) — 11/8/2015 @ 11:50 amFrom the link: white silence is compliance,
Isn’t that special. First, the charge of “racism!” is lobbed in an attempt to shut down all opposing speech, then this is thrown in. Yeah, you’re not supposed to win.
felipe (56556d) — 11/8/2015 @ 12:17 pmThe backlash, if any, will come from the students and parents who object to the sensitivity training and to the bad name which is being given to the school that will give them their diplomas. I’m not sanguine. Football is a big money maker for these cow colleges, with a lot of alumni support to boot. Kind of like Revenge Of The Nerds where the football coach outranks the college president.
nk (dbc370) — 11/8/2015 @ 1:14 pmHonestly, most of this is from a lack of historical perspective. We don’t teach that anymore. Our high schools and colleges tend to teach a, um, skewed view of history.
Why, a very smart woman (a scientist, with a new faculty appointment) I know actually wrote recently that sexism and racism were worse now than one hundred years ago. I’m not kidding. Those words.
So even if one is going to take a identity politics view of history, how on Earth can such a statement be made?
Remember Aldous Huxley’s “Brave New World”? Mustapha Mond quoted “Our Ford” by saying “History is bunk.”
What Henry Ford actually did say was:
“History is more or less bunk. It’s tradition. We don’t want tradition. We want to live in the present, and the only history that is worth a tinker’s damn is the history that we make today.” (Chicago Tribune, 1916).
Mustpha Mond’s commentary in Chapter Three is instructive.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 11/8/2015 @ 1:25 pmFine. The striking players announced they’ll sit out the rest of the season. OK, that’s their decision and since they’ve made their bed, now they can sleep in it.
Revoke their scholarships, evict them from dorm rooms, cut off free meals, end tutoring, and let them sink or swim in regular courses and be subject to the same grading requirements as the general student population. Oh, yeah, and send them a bill prorated for the school year – 30 days to pay up or go home.
And, no more immunity from official entanglements. Do the crime -> do the time. No exceptions.
ropelight (45bbf9) — 11/8/2015 @ 1:41 pmAccording to the Daily Mail, the white football coach supports his striking black players. It also reports there have been other race-based incidents but the President says he won’t resign, even though he also says racism on campus is a “systemic problem.”
Of course, Missouri football is 4-6, putting it at 6th in the SEC’s East Division, and it currently has a four-game losing streak. I’m cynical enough about college football players to think their poor record has dampened the players’ spirits more than a racist incident.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/8/2015 @ 2:06 pmIt’s typical of no-class losers to blame others for their failures. Kick them out and fire the coach.
ropelight (45bbf9) — 11/8/2015 @ 2:23 pmI think of my high school football coach being told to go through sensitivity training sessions back in the late 60’s and laugh.
mg (31009b) — 11/8/2015 @ 2:27 pmWhy, a very smart woman (a scientist, with a new faculty appointment) I know
Socio-political bias and intelligence can easily be (and often is) mutually exclusive. For example, Albert Einstein, in spite of his scientific/rote brilliance, had socialist/leftist leanings.
Intellectuals residing in college ivory towers are known to stereotype conservatism and conservatives with a lack of intelligence and sophistication, while sidestepping the fact that most under-achieving, semi-illiterate urban communities throughout America have voting habits in sync with that of the average college professor.
Mark (f713e4) — 11/8/2015 @ 3:30 pmI am moving to Detroit.
JD (3b5483) — 11/8/2015 @ 3:32 pmspeaking of narratives,
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/ben-carson-just-proved-he-never-lied-liberal-media-in-full-retreat
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/8/2015 @ 3:36 pmIt occurs to me that SNL was very fortunate to have Trump on, if nothing else because of the ratings. But it’s hard for them to make fun of him on anything other than immigration because most of his other positions are and have been liberal. In addition, if they made fun of him for what he does — which primarily consists of living in New York, appearing on TV, being a celebrity, and pursuing fame — then they would be making fun of themselves.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/8/2015 @ 4:03 pmCorrection: I should have said Trump pursues wealth and fame.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/8/2015 @ 4:05 pmJust like them.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/8/2015 @ 4:05 pmsnl has such an ungodly butt-ugly cast i can see why Mr. The Donald thought they would make a good foil
happyfeet (831175) — 11/8/2015 @ 4:16 pmIt is reported that the entire team has decided to go along with the African Americans.
There is a total denial of reality and the reality of the human heart.
Do people really think that somehow the goal is a world where no one ever says a racist word in public? If they want that, the only way is to lock people up or shoot them,
I guess this is an indirect version of that, take the university (and by extension the state) hostage and make them do what a minority want.
The biggest problem is that this is just a PC form of self-righteousness of public posturing while ignoring the realities of the heart and private life. That is true hypocrisy.
Hard to see how this will have a good end. No matter what happens, apart from some miracle all that is going to happen is more bitterness on one side or the other and increased polarization.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 11/9/2015 @ 5:48 amHow did this become a football issue? None of the claimed incidents had anything to do with the football team. And none of their demands would have stopped the claimed incidents from happening. It is absurd.
JD (34f761) — 11/9/2015 @ 6:44 amProbably it didn’t even happen, it wouldn’t surprise me.
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/9/2015 @ 6:46 amcollege kids are such losers i hate them all
i hope my company doesn’t hire any of them cause they make me sick
happyfeet (a037ad) — 11/9/2015 @ 6:48 amWTF is Missouri doing in the Southeastern Conference anyway?
The University of Kentucky graduate Dana (f6a568) — 11/9/2015 @ 7:12 amThew light at the end of his rope wrote:
What, the Hogs play in the CFL now?
The Dana who isn't a Canuck (f6a568) — 11/9/2015 @ 7:15 amI saw on an ESPN thread that a Hog fan was cheering on Mizzou. If the players refuse to play, Mizzou will have to forfeit against Arkansas, guaranteeing Arkansas a bowl game.
Also, there is indeed enmity within the ranks of the football team. As one player put it, if they were 9-0, this wouldn’t be happening. But it can happen since they’re 4-5 and slipping.
John Hitchcock (44c781) — 11/9/2015 @ 7:28 amLooks like a bunch of racists with these demands.
NJRob (a07d2e) — 11/9/2015 @ 7:52 amIf the MU football players want their threats to be taken seriously they should commit to enrolling at KU unless their demand are met.
Lord knows they need some players over in Lawrence.
Phaedrus CJ (c94714) — 11/9/2015 @ 8:15 amIf the Mizzou kidpunks want to be taken more seriously, they should roll on the floor, kicking and stomping, and cry louder. I don’t even see any tears yet. Maybe they can try holding their breath.
They need to go back to their playpens where it’s safe, and mommy can change their dirty diapers.
John Hitchcock (123694) — 11/9/2015 @ 8:26 amI just heard that Wolfe has resigned.
Golden Eagle (ddf081) — 11/9/2015 @ 8:27 amThat’s okay by me, Golden Eagle. Let Mizzou die. And he can move on to a more reasonable place, like Cal Berzerkely or Stalingrad Polytechnic.
John Hitchcock (123694) — 11/9/2015 @ 8:35 amYou know, on reflection, I’m on the side of the football players, even though their purported cause is puerile. None of these kids will ever make it into pro-football and will “graduate” not knowing how to fill out a job application. In the meantime, the college is raking in the NCAA and TV money. College presidents and college coaches are the highest paid public employees in the country. Let them have a little grief.
nk (dbc370) — 11/9/2015 @ 8:50 amI hope it spreads all across college football.
nk (dbc370) — 11/9/2015 @ 8:51 amcrying woof was not going to cut it, el-presidente.
mg (31009b) — 11/9/2015 @ 8:58 amdr. ben carson would make a good mizzou president he’s a fruit loop and plus he’s a doctor who used to stab people
happyfeet (a037ad) — 11/9/2015 @ 9:05 amin anger
happyfeet (a037ad) — 11/9/2015 @ 9:05 amIf that really is the list of demands, the resignation of the pres will mean little
In one way I don’t expect the trustees/gov/public/etc. to stand behind him
but there is no win in this
IDK if there is any compromising once they give in some,
and if “they” “win”
what are odds it gets replicated?
As said above, I don’t think this ends well.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 11/9/2015 @ 9:23 amI think I’m siding with Milo on this.
Why should we defend leftists who only want to destroy us and our way of life?
NJRob (a07d2e) — 11/9/2015 @ 9:27 amMD in Philly,
here you go. http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2015/11/08/missouri-protest-list-demands-issued-to-university.html
NJRob (a07d2e) — 11/9/2015 @ 9:29 amI don’t expect it to help State schools, but it will likely drive up the enrollments at NCCAA schools. (That’s 2 Cs, not just 1)
John Hitchcock (123694) — 11/9/2015 @ 9:29 amI once read that “they” at UW Madison still blame the Univ Pres for the bombing on the campus that killed a grad student in 1970 because the pres did not give in to protesters demands…
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 11/9/2015 @ 9:29 amWasn’t doubting you, NJRob, but thanks for the link.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 11/9/2015 @ 9:31 amNo problem MD in Philly.
Just wanted to make sure any others who were reading knew I wasn’t making them sound more hysterical than they are. Those are their demands.
NJRob (a07d2e) — 11/9/2015 @ 9:38 amThe only power the “striking” athletes have is that which surrounds them, briefly and without attachment, in the media.
The turning of the earth on its axis about a dozen times will fix that.
The big risk, of course, is that the college administration, not understanding this and being weak-kneed anyway, will surrender to them before then.
Beldar (fa637a) — 11/9/2015 @ 9:48 amI’m still mad at a former president who told me I could have some chicken with all my pot. All I got was the chicken and no pot.
John Hitchcock (123694) — 11/9/2015 @ 9:49 amhere is what I go through on Usenet
This person impersonates my name and keeps calling me a gook and a needledick. How can I deal with this cyberbullying? I mean, he does not even respect me! I might want to kill myself.
Michael Ejercito (d74b61) — 11/9/2015 @ 10:14 am2. We demand the immediate removal of Tim Wolfe as UM system president. After his removal, a new amendment to thd UM system policies must be established to have all future UM system president and Chancellor positions be selected by a collective of students, staff, and faculty of diverse backgrounds.
It’s high time that state legislatures and governors disabuse the SJWs of the notion that university governance is divided among the students, faculty, and staff. School governance at a state university is divided among the legislature, governor, board of regents, alumni, taxpayers, administration, students, faculty, and staff. At private universities it’s divided among a board of directors, administration, alumni, students, faculty and staff. These foolish kids need to be told to go jump in the lake.
JVW (3b41ac) — 11/9/2015 @ 10:20 amAnd take their Marxist professors with them.
JVW (3b41ac) — 11/9/2015 @ 10:21 amCollege presidents and college coaches are the highest paid public employees in the country. Let them have a little grief.
College coaches (football and basketball) actually create a product that people will pay good money for. If only the same could be said for college presidents, administration, and faculty.
JVW (3b41ac) — 11/9/2015 @ 10:24 amFurther to my comment above (#122), in which I said, “The big risk, of course, is that the college administration, not understanding this and being weak-kneed anyway, will surrender to them before [the necessary two weeks for the strikers’ media-driven power to evaporate on its own].”
Apparently that’s already happened: Tim Wolfe Resigns as Missouri President Amid Protests, Boycott by Football Team.
Beldar (fa637a) — 11/9/2015 @ 10:35 ami heard the president of starbucks was also a white man with BUTTLOADS of privilege in his butt
happyfeet (a037ad) — 11/9/2015 @ 10:43 amIt’s an act of non-violent collective action on a college campus. What’s the objection? That it was effective?
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/9/2015 @ 10:43 ammore that it was gay and stupid i think
happyfeet (a037ad) — 11/9/2015 @ 10:46 amNow that the Missouri President has resigned, undoubtedly under pressure from the governing body and big football backers, then I think it’s fair to say that college football has officially jumped the shark.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/9/2015 @ 10:48 amMy problem is that this protest involved only a few students and they were successful despite no showing that their complaints are based on documented problems, let alone widespread problems.
Thus, we have a few people with a big megaphone making policy for an entire college. So, yes, that’s my objection, Leviticus.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/9/2015 @ 11:00 amLeviticus -‘care to explain to us how these alleged incidents have anything to do with the football team or the President of the university?
JD (34f761) — 11/9/2015 @ 11:00 amyes yes the cart is where the horse is supposed to be and the horse is where you supposed to put the cart
happyfeet (a037ad) — 11/9/2015 @ 11:01 amWolfe resigning was absurd. He did nothing wrong. This ain’t over. They have their first scalp. The rest of their demands are still out there.
JD (34f761) — 11/9/2015 @ 11:01 amCan somebody tell me why anyone would pay actual money to send their child to college anymore?
Steve57 (22739c) — 11/9/2015 @ 11:08 amThe horse ate the cart.
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/9/2015 @ 11:10 amthat horse is cruisin for a bruisin
happyfeet (a037ad) — 11/9/2015 @ 11:12 amNever put DesCartes before the horse.
John Hitchcock (123694) — 11/9/2015 @ 11:21 amThat’s the Leviticus I was waiting for. Predictable.
NJRob (a07d2e) — 11/9/2015 @ 11:33 amI’m with Leviticus, as far as I’m concerned this should be encouraged until the entire education-propaganda complex collapses. These schools aren’t worth crap, the administrators are cowards who aren’t worth crap, the teachers are effete, pseudointellectual thugs and marxist propagandists and the students are childish, mid-numbed robots with no moral direction or what used to be called “potential”.
Leviticus and I both admire a few thugs with megaphones who have the ability to pussy-whip an entire college, destroy people’s careers, have family people cast off to the unemployment lines without regard to the suffering of them or their families because this unsubstantiated aggression cannot be tolerated. Further more these few megaphone enhanced kids have shown the power of the left to completely trample not only the Constitution but other people’s right to free speech they don’t like. We commend them for having the balls to crush Freedom or as Leviticus asked: “What’s the objection? That it was effective?”.
Besides, the fact they harmed or destroyed their own people’s careers, incomes, futures, families, positions, reputations and achievements is great. I hope this continues through all leftist establishments until they rip themselves apart on a massive, Politically Correct Feeding Frenzy. Do these people realize they are acquiescing to a bunch of over-hormone, post-pubescent a$$ holes? Are we going to allow this country to be run by a bunch of loud mouthed, beer swilling, 20 year old erections or will the adults finally take over?
I have to admit it’s a gas to watch leftists screw over other leftists. Ahhh, Karma!
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 11/9/2015 @ 11:47 ami don’t think the social justice bimbos at mizzou are really representative of for reals actual students there Mr. Reverend
happyfeet (a037ad) — 11/9/2015 @ 11:48 am@ Leviticus (#130), who wrote: “It’s an act of non-violent collective action on a college campus. What’s the objection? That it was effective?”
Yes, it is. That it is a non-violent collective action, however, does not mean that it is right, or wise, or appropriate, or anything else other than non-violent and collective.
I would say it’s non-violent, collective stupidity and selfishness. That’s my objection.
But yes, it was effective, because of the greater stupidity of the target of the tantrum. I do not view that effectiveness was a good or laudable thing. Do you think university presidents ought serve at the pleasure of any and every student mob? If so, we disagree.
This particular university president’s unfitness is demonstrated not by the protests, but by his buckling under to them without any valid reason. Alas, he’s unlikely to be replaced by anyone with a spine. Were I a state taxpayer and voter in Missouri, I’d be agitating to clean house and fire the lot of these top administrators (and perhaps their overseeing regents), and to expel all of the students.
Beldar (fa637a) — 11/9/2015 @ 11:58 am^^ By “expel all the students,” I mean revoke the scholarships of each and every student athlete who failed to comply with the program’s rules (including those requiring one to suit up and practice); and then in due course expelling or otherwise excluding from continuing attendance, those who can’t make their grades and pay their tuition without the handout from the state.
Beldar (fa637a) — 11/9/2015 @ 12:01 pmthe low-class p.o.s. football coach thug needs to have his ass kicked to the curb too
happyfeet (a037ad) — 11/9/2015 @ 12:03 pmThe education system needs more money to fix this.
mg (31009b) — 11/9/2015 @ 12:26 pmcheddar is whats on the moon…
“Do you think university presidents ought serve at the pleasure of any and every student mob?”
– Beldar
I do not. I think they are leaders of public institutions and serve at the pleasure of the people who put them there – as was undoubtedly the case with Wolfe. How many times to you think the resignation of a university president has been called for by various disillusioned “student mobs” over the years? (Many). How often is it effective? (Rarely).
It happened to work in this instance because a particular group of students recognized the leverage they had on a public institution. Whether or not it’s a good thing that a bunch of football players having this kind of leverage on a public institution is another question, but they have it because we gave it to them by idolizing them, and the universities have profited handsomely from that idolization for years while silently hoping that these students wouldn’t wake up to it. Remember the angst surrounding the attempted unionization of athletes at Northwestern?
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/9/2015 @ 12:36 pm“Further more these few megaphone enhanced kids have shown the power of the left to completely trample not only the Constitution but other people’s right to free speech they don’t like.”
– Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie
This is lazy thinking, and people fall into it way too often. This strike, and Jonathan Butler’s, were textbook examples of the exercise of First Amendment rights. Wolfe could have ignored them… if he weren’t in the compromised position that his ouster implicitly acknowledges. They didn’t “resign” him themselves. The order came from on high.
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/9/2015 @ 12:40 pmUp the thread, DRJ mentioned pressure from football backers. Even if we say, for the sake of argument, that the gorillas got loose and mauled the zookeeper, whose fault is it if the gorillas are the star attraction? (Hint: The original title of this post was “Saturday Open College Thread”.) And gorillas or not, I am not backing off from my assertion that college athletes are shamelessly — and shamefully — exploited.
nk (dbc370) — 11/9/2015 @ 12:40 pm@ Leviticus (#148): We agree, the protests were effective this time. I likewise agree that the students have this leverage because it’s been given to them (not earned), and that the universities have profited from that.
I still can’t tell, though, whether you think the protests were good — that is, justified or proper or appropriate or righteous. Do the strikers deserve a pat on the back or a kick in the butt, by your lights?
Beldar (fa637a) — 11/9/2015 @ 12:41 pmSorry. “Saturday Open College *Football* Thread”.
nk (dbc370) — 11/9/2015 @ 12:41 pm“I still can’t tell, though, whether you think the protests were good — that is, justified or proper or appropriate or righteous. Do the strikers deserve a pat on the back or a kick in the butt, by your lights?”
– Beldar
Neither. If I have given so much as a nod of my head, it is one of acknowledgement, not approval or disapproval. Leverage was given; leverage was recognized; leverage was utilized. It happens all the time. I’m trying to understand why people are bothered.
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/9/2015 @ 12:50 pmStop watching college football until these students are expelled, if you don’t like it. This is America. Boycott to your heart’s content.
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/9/2015 @ 12:52 pm(That last one isn’t directed at Beldar – just a general sentiment)
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/9/2015 @ 1:04 pmThese “students” exercised their First Amendment rights, but in so doing, demanded the Government strip everyone else of THEIR First Amendment rights. Or they would shut the place down.
John Hitchcock (123694) — 11/9/2015 @ 1:20 pmThere are going to be a lot of parents with properly functioning brains that see what’s going on at Mizzou and say to their kids “Sheol no, you aren’t going to that cesspool!” No right-thinking parent would want a child of theirs around that compost heap.
John Hitchcock (123694) — 11/9/2015 @ 1:22 pm“These “students” exercised their First Amendment rights, but in so doing, demanded the Government strip everyone else of THEIR First Amendment rights. Or they would shut the place down.”
– John Hitchcock
How on earth do you figure that?
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/9/2015 @ 1:36 pmIt is within my First Amendment right to call anyone I want the N word as I drive past them. The fact that I never would is beside the point. And shutting down the football game and the concession stands that go with it is indeed shutting a specific place down. It’s very easy to follow.
John Hitchcock (123694) — 11/9/2015 @ 1:39 pmNo, Leviticus, the guys driving down the street screaming “nigger” (I assume) was a textbook example of the First Amendment. Forcing a guy who did not scream anything to resign is bullying. But I’m for it as long as it hurts a leftist, which it did. I hope more leftists “resign”.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 11/9/2015 @ 1:40 pmThe college experience is officially beyond parody.
https://popehat.com/2015/04/27/tumult-at-oberlin-in-wake-of-emotional-support-animal-companion-initiative/
Again, why would anybody spend money on college these days? The end product are mentally ill fascists who scream and cry whenever anyone dares express a thought that doesn’t goose step in complete conformity to their politics, who appeal to authority and demand it make them feel “safe” from such offenses, and are being indoctrinated that foreplay means reviewing and signing an “affirmative consent” contract.
I suppose the latter is a positive development as the last thing we want is the mentally defective fascists to do is breed. Thanks to affirmative consent policies and classes from porn stars in how to turn reciprocating saws into mastubatory sex toys they will lack the social skills and the sheer knowledge of what is supposed to go where to breed successfully.
As the saying goes, I s*** you not.
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/northwestern-university-live-sex-show/
Three cheers for the advancement of knowledge of Chicago’s BDSM and fetish subculture, all for a hair over $49k/year plus room, board, textbooks, and other supplies. Which I hesitate to think about.
Seriously, who thinks this is a bargain?
Steve57 (ccc381) — 11/9/2015 @ 2:10 pmhttps://twitter.com/iowahawkblog/status/663005187364139009
College. A hotbed of racism and rape where your kids, when they aren’t being raped or otherwise being traumatized because somebody might make them feel “unsafe” by wearing a culturally imperialistic Halloween costume, can sit around in a drum circle and learn anti-capitalism, jazz hands, and how to drink until they can’t remember who gave them chlamydia.
Steve57 (ccc381) — 11/9/2015 @ 2:29 pmCollege. A place where the boys get to shower with the girls, and if the girls refuse they’re committing a transphobic hate crime, but the boys can’t have sex with the girls without a government permission slip.
Steve57 (ccc381) — 11/9/2015 @ 2:37 pmCollege. Just a longer, more expensive way to learn nothing you couldn’t learn on a weekend bender at strip clubs in San Francisco’s North Beach district.
Steve57 (ccc381) — 11/9/2015 @ 2:44 pmLet me guess: college was still useful when (?) Steve57 attended.
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/9/2015 @ 2:46 pmWe all have principles and values we believe in. I believe in traditional values and the rule of law. Leviticus, sometimes it seems that your guiding principle is to be cynical about other people and their motives, especially when it comes to politics. That probably serves you well if your goal is to be right, but I don’t think it serves you well if you want to make the world a better place.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/9/2015 @ 2:47 pmI retract my earlier statement. There are just some things strippers don’t know to teach.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/358976.php
For this sort of education, you have to pay to go to college.
I don’t know of any strip clubs that have their own microaggressions blog.
Steve57 (ccc381) — 11/9/2015 @ 2:52 pm“Leviticus, sometimes it seems that your guiding principle is to be cynical about other people and their motives, especially when it comes to politics. That probably serves you well if your goal is to be right, but I don’t think it serves you well if you want to make the world a better place.”
– DRJ
I’m not cynical about people, so much as top-down governance models. People mistake me for a liberal. I believe in making our respective worlds better places by making them small enough for us to make a mark on them.
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/9/2015 @ 3:05 pmNot nearly as useful as the Wally Thor School of Auto Body Repair, Mixology, and Pole Dancing.
And a Wally Thor certificate of educational achievement is even more useful in today’s job market. Much more useful than a sheepskin from Dartmouth or Yale.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-07/coding-classes-attract-college-grads-who-want-better-jobs
She went a quarter of a million dollars into debt to get a degree in nonsense just to learn she should have saved $238,500 and just gone to coding school to begin with.
Personally I think Ms. Feng missed her true calling and just should have become a pole dancer.
Steve57 (ccc381) — 11/9/2015 @ 3:05 pmOr, to answer a different way, I believe in discourse ethics and descriptive representative models, and the dissolution of traditions that can’t stand up to the scrutiny that those two things are good at providing. You might call that “cynicism.” I don’t.
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/9/2015 @ 3:06 pmActually college was still marginally useful when I went in the 1980s. Since then it transitioned through the merely useless into actively dangerous to your mental health.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/
Steve57 (ccc381) — 11/9/2015 @ 3:13 pmLeviticus – have you pointed out what the President did wrong yet? Why is he being held responsible for a couple alleged instances of bad behavior of Unidentified individuals? Was he supposed to personally insure nobody in the city ever uttered a bad word? Was he supposed to give them a standing ovation for screwing up the homecoming parade? What, specifically, did he do wrong, that was in his purview?
JD (cac20f) — 11/9/2015 @ 3:17 pmEveryone at Mizzou was scared to stand up to a group of children throwing a temper tantrum. Period. The University could have put an end to this. The Athletic Director could have. The football coach could have. The remaining teammates could have. But everyone was scared of getting the mob pointed in their direction. Now, we punish people for the actions of others.
JD (cac20f) — 11/9/2015 @ 3:22 pmNo one mistakes you for a liberal. Your behavior on this site is consistently illiberal. Now accusing you of being a leftist who supports the fascists that enact behavior such as listed above, well… the thing speaks for itself.
njrob (9309a9) — 11/9/2015 @ 3:31 pmWhere were the parents of the students? I’m gonna starve myself because someone else called someone else a bad name? I’m not going to honor my athletic scholarship because someone called someone else a bad name. When did we begin teaching people to hold parties unrelated to an incident responsible for the incident? This is all just surreal.
And so we are clear, I don’t believe that the student body president had that happen to him. It is an amazing coincidence that he had an unwitnessed event like this happen, that just so happens to play into his grievance narrative and politics. I don’t believe the description of what happened at the rehearsal for the skit. And even if they did happen, it has eff all to do with the President or the University, much less the football team.
JD (cac20f) — 11/9/2015 @ 3:34 pmThe University of Missouri is apparently so racist that its student body, comprising only 8% black students, elected an African-American student as president of the student council. Sounds like just one step removed from white hoods and cross burnings.
JVW (3b41ac) — 11/9/2015 @ 3:43 pmNow, now, JD, don’t get all in Leviticus’ face. The President of the school did nothing “wrong”. That’s the point. Had he actually done something wrong having him ousted would be moot. The object here is to make a loud enough noise and flex your little muscles enough to do harm to the innocent. It’s easy to punish someone who actually caused harm to another but the entire leftist philosophy in America is to cause maximum harm to the most innocent and moral people possible. The more you harm the better. I have to say it’s lovely watching a bunch of leftist kids screw a leftist administrator out of his job, benefits and pension. Wonder who’s next?
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 11/9/2015 @ 3:45 pmLet’s have a little consistency, here: are these students adults, or are they children who happen to be legal adults?
Who do we blame when children throw temper tantrums and get their way? The children, or the adults that cave to their demands? The University could have told them to pound sand. It didn’t. It caved to their demands. Maybe because the University was weak. Maybe because the University recognizes a real problem that you do not.
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/9/2015 @ 3:46 pmSpeaking of a need for consistency, Hoagie can’t decide whether Wolfe is “a leftist administrator” or “the most innocent and moral person possible,” which I somehow suspect are mutually exclusive categories in his book.
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/9/2015 @ 3:49 pmSo, you are going to ignore my simple questions. Thanks.
JD (cac20f) — 11/9/2015 @ 3:51 pmWhat is this real problem of which you speak? That someone somewhere said something mean to someone else?
JD (cac20f) — 11/9/2015 @ 3:52 pm“So, you are going to ignore my simple questions. Thanks.”
– JD
They’ve laid out their grievances. NJRob linked them above. I’m not going to adopt them as my own, or defend them as my own. If you want to argue about the substance of their grievances, do it with them.
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/9/2015 @ 4:00 pmWho do we blame when children throw temper tantrums and get their way? The children, or the adults that cave to their demands? The University could have told them to pound sand. It didn’t. It caved to their demands. Maybe because the University was weak. Maybe because the University recognizes a real problem that you do not.
All of that is true, Leviticus. And maybe the answer is for all states to do what governors and legislature have done in states like Colorado and Wisconsin and start dialing back the massive budgets for these public universities when they act in such a arbitrary and totalitarian manner. Make it clear that frivolously spending taxpayer dollars on feel-good but mindless diversity indoctrination isn’t going to be the answer, no matter how much the little social justice warriors whine
JVW (3b41ac) — 11/9/2015 @ 4:03 pm“maybe the answer is for all states to do what governors and legislature have done in states like Colorado and Wisconsin and start dialing back the massive budgets for these public universities when they act in such a arbitrary and totalitarian manner.”
– JVW
Maybe it is. That would be a power-politics reaction to this power-politics action, and it would receive the same nod of the head from me.
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/9/2015 @ 4:06 pmAgain – mount that campaign, if you want. These folks did it. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/9/2015 @ 4:08 pmI’m not talking to them, in talking to you. But apparently you cannot answer what the President did that was so wrong.
JD (cac20f) — 11/9/2015 @ 4:08 pmYou’re not talking to me. You’re talking past me. I am not defending them. I am acknowledging the way politics works.
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/9/2015 @ 4:16 pmi don’t think you need to mount a campaign it’s enough to note that the mizzou football team is trash
the coach is a p.o.s. thug
the ex-president is a coward
and a degree from this crappy laughingstock flyover university will make it harder for you to get a job
happyfeet (831175) — 11/9/2015 @ 4:19 pmoo,oo, Mr. Kotta, Mr. Kotta,(waving hand furiously)
Nothing! That’s what makes these leftists so powerful. They can kill a fetus, sue a baker, put a photographer out of business, and now get a university president fired over something he didn’t do, didn’t have done and had no control over when it was done by an unknown person. OJ walks free and Hillary! cackles all the way to the Oval office while we burry or bravest men and watch as the left brings in illegals and moslems to replace us. Smile! You’re watch’in history JD, ain’t it grand?
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 11/9/2015 @ 4:21 pmThis is why John Adams said: ” Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”, JD. That’s why way back in the 60’s the struggle began to remove all Judeo-Christian symbols from public places, even court rooms and schools. That’s why prayer isn’t allowed. The left is replacing God with government.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 11/9/2015 @ 4:31 pmOff topic, but if any of these potential candidates try to make use of the contrived, totally bogus, media attack horsesh*t against Dr. Ben Carson, they will immediately disqualify themselves in my eyes and those of my extended family.
Colonel Haiku (73c0b6) — 11/9/2015 @ 4:37 pmprescient he was:
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/academia-saul-bellow-dangling-man/
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/9/2015 @ 4:40 pmDisclaimer-
Didn’t read the last many comments thoroughly,
but
IMO, this has nothing to do with football or anything about the role of athletics in college,
and the threat to shut off football is not what made their claim work
the fear of being called “RACIST!!!” is what is driving this, and now that they have buckled,
who knows where it will end
the problem is the irrationality of their demands, and the irrationality of giving in, and the irrationality of our nation
and all of this is because there are not enough individuals with the moral compass to say no,
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 11/9/2015 @ 5:10 pmthis has nothing to do with top down governments or anything,
this has to do with a people too ignorant to govern themselves anymore
Leviticus:
I don’t understand “discourse ethics and descriptive representative models and the dissolution of traditions that can’t stand up to the scrutiny that those two things are good at providing.” Can you explain these concepts and give me examples?
DRJ (15874d) — 11/9/2015 @ 5:13 pmit’s also the phenomenon Tom Wolfe noted in Oakland if memory serves in ‘Mau Mauing the Flack Catchers,’
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/9/2015 @ 5:16 pmLeviticus:
You said above you are cynical about top-down governance, and now you say this about politics. Governments and politics don’t operate in a vacuum. I think you are cynical about everything that happens unless it is at the micro level where you feel you have more control. In a sense, that makes you a conservative.
So that raises the obvious question: Why do you fight so hard against the conservative ideas that people express here?
DRJ (15874d) — 11/9/2015 @ 5:22 pmI can give one example of a tradition that needs to be dissolved because it can’t withstand scrutiny.
The tradition of sending your kids to college.
http://twitchy.com/2015/11/07/safe-space-alert-op-ed-describes-how-some-yale-special-snowflakes-are-reacting-to-tolerance-email/
These infantalized legal adults are quite literally demanding that Yale assign them a quardian to love and take care of them. And the headmaster of the presciently and quite aptly named Silliman College (they silliest college EVAH!, apparently) has let them down and made them cry and curl up in a fetal position, sucking their thumbs.
According to the Yale admissions office the total cost to attend per annum is $65,725. And for that low, low price Yale will turn your child into a quivering puddle of jello filled with imaginary grievances, irrational fears, and baseless anxieties completely incapable of functioning outside of the rubber rooms of academia.
Steve57 (ccc381) — 11/9/2015 @ 6:17 pmThis is a repeat of a comment that’s stuck in moderation. The post over at Twitchy is heavy on embedded links. I didn’t mean nor did I need to include them. If anyone cares to follow the links they can go to Twitchy.
I can give one example of a tradition that needs to be dissolved because it can’t withstand scrutiny.
The tradition of sending your kids to college.
http://twitchy.com/2015/11/07/safe-space-alert-op-ed-describes-how-some-yale-special-snowflakes-are-reacting-to-tolerance-email/
These people are technically legal adults. Yet they have been so infantilized by our school system that they are quite literally demanding that Yale assign them a quardian to love and take care of them. And the headmaster of the presciently and quite aptly named Silliman College (they silliest college EVAH!, apparently), Christakis, has let them down and made them cry and curl up in a fetal position, sucking their thumbs, unable to leave their dorm rooms.
According to the Yale admissions office the total cost to attend per annum is $65,725. And for that low, low price Yale will turn your child into a quivering puddle of jello filled with imaginary grievances, irrational fears, and baseless anxieties completely incapable of functioning outside of the rubber rooms of academia.
And really, what they do inside the rubber rooms of academia can’t really be called functioning.
Steve57 (ccc381) — 11/9/2015 @ 6:29 pmHere’s what the dust-up is about.
http://twitchy.com/2015/11/09/shame-mizzou-j-school-prof-blasts-colleague-who-tried-to-sic-muscle-on-reporter/
Got that? A communications perfesser tried to recruit “muscle” to assault a student journalist.
And Leviticus is conflicted about this; it’s just politics, he says.
Yes, in North Korea or Stalin’s Russia, maybe.
Steve57 (ccc381) — 11/9/2015 @ 7:09 pm“I don’t understand “discourse ethics and descriptive representative models and the dissolution of traditions that can’t stand up to the scrutiny that those two things are good at providing.” Can you explain these concepts and give me examples?”
– DRJ
Discourse ethics is a model of decision-making that looks to process over outcomes (which, in a sense, makes it very compatible with republican government – a point that I have harped on in the past and which I believe to be regularly overlooked). It is a system built on three principles: symmetry, reciprocity, and reflexivity. It’s classic proponent is a political philosopher named Jurgen Habermas. Broadly speaking, symmetry is the idea that all parties sit down at a table in a position of equal power. Reciprocity is the idea that all parties at the table are willing to give to others the time to express themselves. Reflexivity refers to the willingness of all parties to be introspective – to question their own preconceptions and assumptions as a necessary step in addressing the ideas of the other parties. Ideally, alternative dispute resolution systems (in the legal sphere) embody discourse ethics: the idea is that all parties sit down at a table, equally empowered, and address the strengths and weaknesses of their respective positions with the understanding that any real solution will require some give and take.
“Descriptive representative models” is a political science thing, referring to systems of governance that are primarily concerned with reproducing the political composition of the electorate in the legislature – this in contrast to majoritarian systems, which are more concerned with structurally producing electoral majorities which facilitate the function of governing. Basically, descriptive models want to bring political minorities to the legislative table in order to round out the ultimate discourse, whereas majoritarian models have no problem compressing multiple disparate political groups into broad coalitions which (while skewed to moderation) increase the odds of action at the legislative level. The best examples of descriptive representative models are in proportional representation systems with low electoral thresholds (e.g. Israel) which allow otherwise marginal political groups to have an active voice in legislatures.
Leviticus (73e577) — 11/9/2015 @ 8:44 pmAnd, to your other point, I do think I am very conservative in the sense you identify.
“So that raises [your]question: Why do [I} fight so hard against the conservative ideas that people express here?”
And would you care to give some examples of that hard fight against “conservative ideas” that you see in me? Isn’t it worth wondering whether you’re begging the question? Modern American “conservatism” has strayed far, far afield from the kind of conservatism that you correctly identify in me – as the Republican primary field (for instance) so obviously demonstrates.
Leviticus (73e577) — 11/9/2015 @ 8:48 pmWho do we blame when children throw temper tantrums and get their way? The children, or the adults that cave to their demands? The University could have told them to pound sand. It didn’t. It caved to their demands. Maybe because the University was weak. Maybe because the University recognizes a real problem that you do not.
The university certainly is both weak — and I’d wager a bet that the sacrificial lamb, Timothy Wolfe, most definitely is of the left — and foolish enough to believe the real problem is that America remains far too bigoted and intolerant because, well, it’s not willing to come out and cheer over the possibility of its first black president announcing his intent to marry a dude, preferably a white one, or maybe a black one, or maybe a mixed-race one, or maybe an albino, or maybe Caitlyn Jenner.
You know I’d have described that statement as pure sarcasm, as pure snark, not too long ago, but we live in an age when life really is increasingly imitating art.
Another thing: Various liberals’ eyes welled with tears of joy back in 2008 when they thought the US had finally turned the ultimate corner and that race and racism would no longer be such a great burden. But — chortle, chortle — opinion surveys indicate a fairly large majority of Americans think racial discord is wider today than it was over 8 years ago.
Sniff, sniff. Weep, weep.
Mark (f713e4) — 11/9/2015 @ 9:11 pmModern American “conservatism” has strayed far, far afield from the kind of conservatism that you correctly identify in me
Keep in mind that the mid-point of the socio-political spectrum over 50 to 60 years ago was well to the right of where it is today. So if a person deems someone as too rightwing or conservative in the context of the 21st century — in Obama’s America — that is analogous to an ultra-conservative back in, say, the 1940s or 1950s thinking someone was too liberal.
Mark (f713e4) — 11/9/2015 @ 9:15 pmTo paraphrase all this hogwash:
You prefer the theoretical communist model whereally everyone is equal and has a chance to participate and you support a quota system for minorities no matter the result.
Discourse ethics is a stand in for communism. Descriptive Representative Models are just another word for quotas. But you’re the “real conservative.”
See how easy that was.
njrob (9309a9) — 11/10/2015 @ 6:10 amThis would be a good example of a lack of reflexivity, for instance.
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/10/2015 @ 7:16 amthe Bolsheviks promised bread and piece, they brought famine and strife, Fidel, Mao, Fonseca, and Chavez, all do the same, they were at one time, just pamphleteers, propagandists, who got into the universities, into the army (Dr. Zhivago) illustrates this, then they seized power in a coup,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/10/2015 @ 7:34 amthe ongoing war was the pretext, but anyone will do, then they followed through with the edicts in their pamphlets,
the Bolsheviks promised bread and piece,
And a good portion of the left excused or rationalized away the ruthlessness of such people before, during and after the height of the Cold War, presumably because the hearts of the Communists at least were in the right place. Presumably because such people were fighting the good fight for the little man. Presumably because they at least provided free healthcare or what-not.
But look at the reaction of a similar cross section of the left today towards Islamofascists.
Simply put, liberalism does manifest itself time and time again as a form of mental illness.
Mark (f713e4) — 11/10/2015 @ 8:11 amLeviticus 200,
Here and here and anytime we talk about tasers and/or the police.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/10/2015 @ 8:16 amYour policies mean there is no reason to win an election, other than the opportunity for personal gain. But they would stop Obama from saying “I win” in response to the GOP — assuming he was willing to abide by rules and principles that hurt his policies. Read the Fith Circuit’s immigration decision and you will see he could care less about discourse.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/10/2015 @ 8:19 amAlso, Leviticus, no one likes being in the minority but the point should be that they have a voice, not governing power. We have a voice because of free speech laws, and it’s greater than ever because of the internet. But no one is entitled to an equal position at the governing table unless they win their position, and IMO they shouldn’t be entitled to Parliament-style powers simply because they have a megaphone. The result will be what just happened at the University of Missouri where a few people dominate because they had the biggest megaphone.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/10/2015 @ 8:43 amThe result will be what just happened at the University of Missouri where a few people dominate because they had the biggest megaphone.
“what just happened at the University of Missouri” is still unfolding
the mizzou trash may end up paying a really heavy price
there’s gonna be a not insignificant number of alumni what tell these fascists to go beg on the street corner when they call
happyfeet (a037ad) — 11/10/2015 @ 8:53 am“Also, Leviticus, no one likes being in the minority but the point should be that they have a voice, not governing power. We have a voice because of free speech laws, and it’s greater than ever because of the internet. But no one is entitled to an equal position at the governing table unless they win their position, and IMO they shouldn’t be entitled to Parliament-style powers simply because they have a megaphone. The result will be what just happened at the University of Missouri where a few people dominate because they had the biggest megaphone.”
– DRJ
You and I have long disagreed about what makes a good government, and that’s fine. I continue believe that our legislature is artificially, structurally limited to two parties, and that this is poison for the quality of discourse and governance, and directly responsible for increasing civic disengagement.
We should be able to agree that these students at Mizzou did nothing more than exercise their rights under the First Amendment. What happened next was beyond their control, as you yourself essentially acknowledged earlier in this thread.
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/10/2015 @ 10:38 amNo. We don’t agree with that.
I am under the belief that these were hoax crimes perpetuated by the perpetually aggrieved to force their agenda upon the unwilling, but acquiescent majority. Time and again it is shown that these racist acts were done by those who claimed to be the victims of said acts.
Then to further their agenda, they deliberately violated the 1st Amendment by declaring they were the only ones allowed to speak and observe. They did this with their ridiculous demands and by threatening violence upon reporters.
But thanks for playing. You’ll make a wonderful leftist lawyer. May I recommend the ACLU for your first position.
NJRob (a07d2e) — 11/10/2015 @ 11:17 amI’m inclined to think that any discussion of self governance which is based on language that the typical lawyer or doctor doesn’t understand is not that useful,
MD in Philly (not in Philly, and out and about) (ddc954) — 11/10/2015 @ 11:17 amUnless you want the proletariat to just shut up and do what their betters tell them.
YMMV
“I am under the belief that these were hoax crimes perpetuated by the perpetually aggrieved to force their agenda upon the unwilling, but acquiescent majority. Time and again it is shown that these racist acts were done by those who claimed to be the victims of said acts.”
– NJRob
Are you familiar with the term “confirmation bias,” by any chance?
Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/10/2015 @ 12:40 pmWhen the facts back it up it is not confirmation bias.
I wonder how many people remember the “burning of Black Churches” in the south a number of years ago, including the Church in TN that Reggie White founded. It turned out there really wasn’t some epidemic of selective burning of black churches, and White’s church was burned down for insurance by a longtime friend and the church administrator. Broke Reggie’s heart.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 11/10/2015 @ 12:47 pmExtremely familiar.
Are you aware of the many instances that validate my beliefs?
Are you aware that no one can confirm these racist utterances other than the activists?
Are you aware that leftist activists often perpetrate hoaxes on campuses to push their agenda?
Are you aware of how marginalized their leftist agenda was till they began alleging racism?
Are you aware that their cause celebre from a couple of years ago, Michael Sam claimed he never experienced any racism on campus and then shut up today after he was spoken to?
And on and on.
You are nothing if not predictible.
njrob (c94106) — 11/10/2015 @ 2:04 pmhttp://thefederalist.com/2015/11/10/was-the-poop-swastika-incident-at-mizzou-a-giant-hoax/
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/10/2015 @ 2:32 pmCue Gomer Pyle.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 11/10/2015 @ 2:50 pmWith the ubiquity of cell phones with cameras today, the lack of a picture does speak loudly, even if not definitively.
just ‘one more question’ ala Colombo, that come to mind, but the importance is the eloi claxon, doesn’t matter if it’s real,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/10/2015 @ 2:57 pmMaybe I will try to meet him one day as he is based in Philly,
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 11/10/2015 @ 3:06 pma voice crying in the wilderness
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/426812/david-horowitz-journey-left-right
Leviticus 211:
My opinion of this incident was expressed in my comment 133. I agree they have the right to speak but what happened next was by design. You win every argument if you call someone a racist in the post-Obama society. You don’t even have to be right. In fact, logic and being right has nothing to do with it. The whole point is to win by labeling your opponent as not worthy of being listened to or understood.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/10/2015 @ 3:38 pmI think Alinsky referred to this as marginalizing your opponent. He can no longer argue the point because he is busy defending himself.
MD in Philly, it may e easier to meet Horowitz than you think. He occasionally attends services at Temple Beth Shalom in Elkins Park. That’s close to both of us.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 11/10/2015 @ 4:01 pmWowee, Leviticus, that’s like charging racism. Another old leftist dodge is to swing the “Confirmation bias” dead cat around someone’s head until he runs for cover. So with one well placed, sly question his entire argument is cast in doubt. It’s great foe debate but for finding the truth not so much. You see confirmation bias is really saying a persons experience and observations are illegitimate if they concur with their beliefs. Frankly, if they didn’t I’d consider them schizo.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 11/10/2015 @ 4:12 pm