Patterico's Pontifications

7/6/2015

The Odd Coupling Of Ted Cruz And Donald Trump

Filed under: General — Dana @ 2:15 pm



[guest post by Dana]

In the past week, any number of GOP candidates have been vocal in their condemnation of Donald Trump’s “racist” comments about illegal aliens:

When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending the best,” he said during the announcement. “They’re not sending you, they’re sending people that have lots of problems and they’re bringing those problems. They’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime. They’re rapists and some, I assume, are good people, but I speak to border guards and they’re telling us what we’re getting.”

Trump has not back pedaled on his comments, but rather doubled-down in light of the young woman in San Francisco killed by an illegal alien last week.

Marco Rubio, Rick Perry, Jeb Bush, Chris Christie, and Lindsay Graham have all denounced his comments and suggested that he is damaging the brand of the Republican Party with his criticism. This in spite of polling data saying otherwise.

Ted Cruz, however, refuses to take the bait and is not interested in condemning Trump because he would rather focus on the bigger picture of what the real problem is:

“I salute Donald Trump for focusing on the need to address illegal immigration,” the Texas senator said on NBC’s Meet the Press in an interview that aired Sunday. “The Washington cartel doesn’t want to address that. The Washington cartel doesn’t believe we need to secure the borders. The Washington cartel supports amnesty and I think amnesty’s wrong, and I salute Donald Trump for focusing on it. He has a colorful way of speaking. It’s not the way I speak, but I’m not going to engage in the media’s game of throwing rocks and attacking other Republicans. I’m just not going to do it.”

Your thoughts on Trump’s comments? Is he hurting the Republican “brand”? Does referring to the Republicans as having a “brand” make you smirk? And Ted Cruz, has he hurt his campaign by refusing to jump on the condemn-the-goofball bandwagon? Do you see this as having any lasting impact on the GOP in the 2016 election?

–Dana

156 Responses to “The Odd Coupling Of Ted Cruz And Donald Trump”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (86e864)

  2. Of course Trump was engaging in Crimethink™ and Hatespeech™ by pointing out truths which the ruling junta want to be ignored. Illegal immigrants, if they are only 11 million, would account for about 4% of the total US population. they are 27% of the prison population. Getting the picture??

    John Cunningham (9f3ba7)

  3. Breitbart Texas has exclusively confirmed that a man who confessed to murdering his wife with a hammer in Laredo, Texas is a four-time deported illegal immigrant who would not have been in the U.S. had he not been able to illegally cross back into the country multiple times from Mexico after his deportations. In addition, the Laredo Police Department continuously encountered the man in violent episodes with his wife, yet did not notify Border Patrol, according to federal agents who spoke with Breitbart Texas on the condition of anonymity.

    These are not illegal immigrants they are just poor misunderstood Hispanics, right? Hispanic invaders account for more Americans killed per year than moslem terrorists. Sanctuary cities are the product of a screwed up feel good leftist brains. Both Trump and Cruz may very well be on to something to rally middle of the roaders.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  4. Trump’s a clown, and his having spoken the truth on
    this occasion doesn’t stop him being a clown, but
    he did speak the truth and is being attacked for it,
    and therefore all decent people have a moral duty
    to rally around him for the duration.

    There are two separate things going on here: what he said, and what malicious Democrat operatives are telling people he said, which is quite different. I know there are those who say one should never say anything that could possibly be distorted into something controversial, but that is the path of folly, because you end up never saying anything significant at all, and even then you can say the most innocuous-sounding thing and have it misreported.

    But once the misreporting has happened, the temptation to apologize must be resisted. 1. The apology will only entrench the view that you must have said something wrong; 2. It will usually require retracting the true and necessary and important thing you said, and never returning to it; 3. The attackers will never “forgive” you anyway, because they know very well what really happened;
    4. Apologizing will lose you the respect of those who know what you really said and agree with it.

    The only way out is through; to the extent that there is any damage, it’s not recoverable, but if you brazen it out and stick to your original statement, not apologizing or backing down but also not accepting the enemies’ version, you can gain people’s respect.

    Milhouse (a04cc3)

  5. Bush, Rubio, graham and Christie hurt the Republican “brand” more than Trump ever could.

    jim (a9b7c7)

  6. Yes yes bushfilth marco sleazio and bridge boi are very corrosive of the team r brand

    Rick Perry is a drooling momo I feel sorry for him he even has to wear special glasses to try and look smart

    happyfeet (5f59f8)

  7. Cruz is demonstrating perhaps the most crucial tactic that any GOP nominee can: Refusal to play on the terms of the progressives and their minions. He flatly ignores the heat and light and insists we focus on substance. Unapologetically.

    I can not overstate the brilliance of his strategy and I admire his courage in so doing.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  8. Trump is a joke. Having him represent your “brand” makes your brand a joke. Don’t invite him to debates. Don’t invite him to CPAC. Don’t talk to him. Simple.

    If you can find it on the cables, ESPN has a good documentary about the USFL, which Trump partially destroyed due to his hubris.

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  9. What Ed said. We all know Trump will not get elected but he can sure embarrass the hell out of the career pols. Cruz went up in my estimation for not kow-towing,

    Gazzer (ee3742)

  10. Yes, I think as a presidential candidate Trump hurts the Republican brand in general because he is not seen by many/most as a serious man. That said, he owes no apology for his observation and his statement. Even though I think we as a society have waaay overloaded the “I demand an apology because I am offended” train over the last few years, Trump should demand an apology from all those on both the left and right who are purposefully mis-characterizing his words for their own political gain. Has Newt died? It would seem this is the kind of controversy where normally he would excel at jumping in and straightening people out.

    I think Cruz handled it well on MTP, by the way.

    elissa (dc3fe2)

  11. I think that the Hispanics already living in America do not want the USA invaded by the Mexican and Central American drug cartel members.

    These drug cartel members and other criminals who have illegally entered the USA threaten the safety of all of us in the USA.

    That is why we need border enforcement, first and foremost.

    We should all remember 1986 when there was amnesty, but no border enforcement. Now we have 11 more illegals.

    slp (347e33)

  12. Trump may (or may not) vote Republican, but he’s no Republican leader, no representative of the party, and no public servant. He’s never been elected as a Republican Party nominee to anything. I don’t think he’s entitled to any deference under Reagan’s Eleventh Commandment.

    He’s a fraud and a con man. Has he figured out an issue he can exploit? Sure, but even a blind pig occasionally finds an acorn, and “blind pig” would be one of the nicer things I could think of to call him.

    As for him being a “successful businessman” and “really rich”: His companies have made more trips through the bankruptcy courts than the public knows or would believe. If indeed he’s personally rich, it’s because he’s used those bankruptcy courts and some really dodgy lawyering to get that way at the expense of his companies’ other investors and creditors.

    The only good thing about him being in the race is that he’ll be a spectacular piñata for the plausible GOP candidates to batter in the early stages of the primary. But there’s a limit to how much traction you can get and dignity you can maintain by smacking a clown.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  13. Now we have 11 more illegals. If only that were true. I know you meant 11 million but that just isn’t plausible. We were using a figure of 12-15M in 08. Even the Border Patrol thinks it’s closer to 30 million.

    Gazzer (ee3742)

  14. Trump is a Democrat’s caricature of the GOP. Bringing the caricature to life isn’t a good thing. Good thing he’s be gone by October.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  15. Why just the other day, this blog was a free-for-all of contempt for some hapless and ill-spoken hardware merchant. How can we, in good conscience, do anything but sneer at Cruz for his unwillingness to fall in line and heap scorn on The Donald?

    Mr. Trump may not be the best presidential choice, but he’s a great candidate. In a very short time, he has driven the Alinsky-compliant Republicans from cover. Campaigns are just getting started and conservative voters already owe Donald Trump a debt of gratitude.

    ThOR (a52560)

  16. Gazzer,

    I live in Los Angeles, and if the Mexican population had doubled sine 2008 it would be very hard to miss. It hasn’t. It’s quite possible it has dropped. Maybe they all went to Texas where there’s jobs, but a claim of 30 million (25% or so of whom would be here) is quite unbelievable.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  17. Damage to the Republican brand? That reminds me of the classic book & movie “QB VII” wherein a vile British doctor is accused of being a Nazi sympathizer and he files a defamation lawsuit. The jury rules in his favor and awards him damages for lost reputation of one pence.

    in_awe (7c859a)

  18. Trump is as much of a Republican as Ernie Banks was a Cardinal.

    JD (e4b7ec)

  19. ‘Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.’ –Twain

    ‘Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.’ — Carlin

    ‘Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good you are at chess the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like it won.’ — Various

    ‘Don’t feed the troll.’ — Usenet

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  20. That is a great book, in_awe.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  21. oh my goodness I like trump way more better than I like hillary clinton

    she’s disgusting

    happyfeet (5f59f8)

  22. “The Odd Coupling Of Ted Cruz And Donald Trump”… that would definitely be odd, but Trump would make sure it’s world-class.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  23. Cruz could take about an hour
    on Trump’s Tower of Power

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  24. Cruz strikes me as the frontrunner because of this. The GOP establishment made Trump possible exactly because on immigration (as well as the wars, debt and spending, affirmative action) they have refuses to even discuss it. Trump is only saying but people are saying in their homes, among friends and family over dinner, at barbecues. We’ve had it with Boehner and Ryan and their ilk telling us one thing to get elected or beg for money, and going to DC and doing nothing about it. And immigration crosses all the boxes for EXACTLY the voter the GOP candidate needs-lawlessness,overrun ERs and schools, big business cutting wages and giving good jobs to illegals. WE’VE HAD IT. At least Trump is discussing it. Cruz recognizes this, and it’s a very good thing. Hillary! has no answer for it other than “nation of immigrants” pablum. Which is cold comfort when a guy who should have been deported long ago kills someone again.Simply are we running this country for it’s working and middle class citizens or for the elites and the underclass who keeps them in power with free stuff and shiny trinkets?

    Bugg (46ac20)

  25. There is a big difference between saying “Police and politicians the other way while illegal immigrants commit crimes — crimes we would lock up a citizen for committing — is grounds for firing, or worse” and “Most Mexican immigrants are rapists and murderers” which is what Trump carelessly projects.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  26. *Police and politicians looking the other way…

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  27. in_awe–

    I thought it was a ha’penny — “the lowest coin in the realm”

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  28. Kevin M,
    My thoughts were that they are being better dispersed around the country. What is happening in Hazelton, PA, is likely going on all over.
    http://standardspeaker.com/news/latino-influx-spurs-first-population-increase-in-hazleton-in-70-years-1.1116591

    Gazzer (ee3742)

  29. happy, I like dead Richard Nixon better than I like Hillary.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  30. Trump is acting the rodeo clown to distract the bull. I wouldn’t doubt this is the plan . Bring up all the difficult topics and we get to see how our candidates react. Cruz keeps looking better all the time. If we are going to lose this election, at least we should go with a real candidate that we can believe in. So far I am with him 100%

    bald01 (f38852)

  31. donald trump’s a hump
    I guess he’s a Big Deal in
    Combover Country

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  32. team republican has already demolished the republican party, Trump had nothing to do with it.
    Cruz can’t hurt himself speaking the truth. team republican is fine with 2nd place, they don’t want the presidency in 2016. The goal for team r is to keep Cruz from getting elected.

    mg (31009b)

  33. Trump may be a clown, but every time I see John Boehner get weepy the old Smokey Robinson & The Miracles song Tears of a Clown starts playing in my head.

    Boehner is just one of many Republicans who flat lied to the base. I don’t recall the GOP running on a platform of “cooperate with Barack Obama” in the last three elections. One could only wish that the current Congressional leadership would fight the Democrats as enthusiastically as they’re punishing conservatives who actually (gasp!) intend to legislate as if they actually believed what they told their constituents in order to get elected.

    Take John McCain (please!); he ran on “build the dang fence” in order to “mend fences” with conservatives who didn’t appreciate being called racists for opposing his amnesty scheme. Then as soon as he was reelected he immediately withdrew support for building the fence.

    Gee, who could have seen that coming. His mini-me Lindsey Graham is just as bad. I recall reading a series of emails (I’m not sure how the site got those, but I presume legally) in which he and McCain had some choice words to describe amnesty opponents.

    I’d say these Republicans who can’t hide their contempt for conservatives have hurt the “brand” far more than Trump ever could.

    Steve57 (4c9797)

  34. Dana, I love how you have framed several questions as jumping -off points for commenting on this topic. I think that’s a very effective approach to get people thinking.

    elissa (dc3fe2)

  35. Good for Cruz. Now let’s invite Trump and Christie for a boat ride off the New Jersey coast.

    nk (dbc370)

  36. Gilligan and Skipper

    mg (31009b)

  37. Kevin M, another thought occurs. Who knows how accurate the estimates were back then anyway?

    Gazzer (ee3742)

  38. If this is killing the republican party, keep talking Donald.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-epic-statement-on-mexico-2015-7

    mg (31009b)

  39. Trump sat alone in a foggy daze
    totally emotionless ‘cept for his craze
    Mud flowed up into Trump’s pajamas
    he’s totally confused all the media piranhas
    he’s Trump, he’s Trump
    he’s in their heads
    he’s Trump, he’s Trump, he’s Trump
    his campaign’s dead?

    Trump lingered last in line for brains
    but cash is king and he makes it rain
    won’t pray to God but would a golden calf
    Is Trump a genius or too clever by half
    he’s Trump, he’s Trump
    he’s in their heads
    he’s Trump, he’s Trump, he’s Trump
    his campaign’s dead?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  40. Beldar @ 3:45 pm, all you say is true, and yet he happens to be right this one time. And that’s coming from me, who’s about as liberal on immigration as you’ll find on the right side of politics.

    Kevin M @ 4:24 pm “Most Mexican immigrants are rapists and murderers” which is what Trump carelessly projects. To the best of my knowledge Trump has not said (or “projected”, whatever that means) any such thing. He has accurately said that the uncontrolled stream of people coming illegally over the Mexican border (which is not the same set as “Mexican immigrants”) includes a significant number of rapists, murderers, and other violent criminals. That is an important fact that must be discussed, but everyone is afraid to.

    Milhouse (a04cc3)

  41. Trump is saying what a large number of ordinary Americans are thinking. He is saying things the Left has attempted to place off limits. I’ve heard a lot of people condemning Trump, I haven’t seen a lot of evidence that he is wrong.

    Have no doubt, the media will attempt to use Trump’s statements to de-legitimize the entire Republican field. I just think that there is a chance it won’t work this time.

    gahrie (12cc0f)

  42. Look, even if the illegal immigrants weren’t criminals coming to prey on us, they are uneducated peasants unwilling to assimilate. We have all of those we need thank you very much.

    gahrie (12cc0f)

  43. Inside Obama family’s $12million summer vacation: Seven bedrooms, nine bathrooms, a tennis court, an infinity pool and a manicurist on call… how the First Family are taking over a Martha’s Vineyard compound

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3151338/President-Obama-spend-summer-vacation-Martha-s-Vineyard-renting-12million-retreat-year.html#ixzz3fA0VJHso
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    And with Imperial crap like this the left loses spittle over an illegal immigrant snipe. Who pays for a guy making $400 grand’s 12 million dollar vacation…..and why? On what planet do the tax payers of the United States own anybody a $12 million vacation? Folks, that means this one vacation costs us 30 times his annual salary. Why? Have you ever spent 30 ties your annual salary on a vacation? Guys go to the moon for less than that.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  44. they are uneducated peasants unwilling to assimilate.

    How do you know they are unwilling to assimilate in all the ways that matter? Did you ask them? Or are you relying on the pronouncements of radical political activists who don’t represent them in any way?

    Milhouse (a04cc3)

  45. As long as no legitimate politicians are willing to accurately and openly discuss the question of illegal immigration and the damage it is doing to our country, we will continue to get people like Trump doing it instead.

    gahrie (12cc0f)

  46. He’s a fraud and a con man. Has he figured out an issue he can exploit?

    I agree Trump is a clown but he is right on this. Obama and the Democrats are trying to flood the country with illegals like Labour flooded Britain with Muslims who are mostly living on the Dole and molesting young girls in Birmingham. They both see them as reliable voters.

    Republicans must understand that the public sees this and Perry, who is not otherwise a very good candidate, is starting to reach out to blacks who should (I repeat Should) realize that the illegals are a deadly threat to their middle class aspirations. This is not the time to go wobbly on illegal immigration.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  47. Rev, that’s what the house TFG is staying at is worth. Although, I think the actual vacation will cost more than $12M.

    Gazzer (ee3742)

  48. I’m glad Trump said what he said in the way he said it. It starts to crack the PC veil. Instantly there were calls to punish his “hate speech”. I don’t think anything will come from the comments and Ted Cruz won’t be hurt, nor the GOP.

    Dejectedhead (ec3741)

  49. Cruz is demonstrating perhaps the most crucial tactic that any GOP nominee can: Refusal to play on the terms of the progressives and their minions. He flatly ignores the heat and light and insists we focus on substance. Unapologetically.

    This.

    Trump is a snake oil salesman wearing a $2,000 suit, but in Ted Cruz’s shrewd estimation, he knows that in this Trump is a golden opportunity with which to send a shot across the bow of the Democrats and media. I’m not playing the games that you tell me I have to play, and I’m definitely not playing by your rules. What are you going to do about it?

    Republican brand: Owning the Party of No Proudly: No To Democrats’ Narrative Manipulation, No To Media “Gotchas” And No To Bully Tactics. You Want An Honest Conversation, We’re Here Waiting For You”.

    More, please.

    Dana (86e864)

  50. How do you know they are unwilling to assimilate in all the ways that matter?

    When it becomes impossible to wear an American flag shirt to an American high school because the Hispanic students would riot, it becomes very obvious.

    When the most prominent of the civil rights organizations representing them openly call for reconquista, it becomes very obvious.

    gahrie (12cc0f)

  51. How do you know they are unwilling to assimilate in all the ways that matter? Did you ask them? Or are you relying on the pronouncements of radical political activists who don’t represent them in any way?

    You disagree Milhouse? Because I’ve observed for years Hispanics in schools, at parades in all kind of “movements” waving Mexican flags rather than ours and making pro Mexican, anti American statements. I’ve read La Raza which lays out a very non-assimilating, down right separatist program. I’ve personally met, known and talked with many Hispanics who adamantly do not want to assimilate in any meaningful way. Now I’m sure that’s not every single one but it’s enough to draw a broad generalization based on observation, experience and first hand knowledge.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  52. How do you know they are unwilling to assimilate in all the ways that matter?

    When it becomes impossible to wear an American flag shirt to an American high school because the Hispanic students would riot, it becomes very obvious.

    What has that got to do with the “uneducated peasants” who are coming across the border?

    When the most prominent of the civil rights organizations representing them openly call for reconquista, it becomes very obvious.

    Aha. You admit exactly what I suspected you were doing: relying on the pronouncements of radical political activists who don’t represent them in any way.

    Milhouse (a04cc3)

  53. “Trump may (or may not) vote Republican, but he’s no Republican leader, no representative of the party, and no public servant.”

    Hence, the basis of Trump’s appeal. That’s why the “damage the brand” criticism is so laughable. “Republican leaders . . . representatives of the party and . . . public servants” are the ones who are responsible for the damage to the brand in the first place. Nothing makes me happier that to see Trump and the RINOs go at each other. Nothing.

    ThOR (a52560)

  54. Hoagie, La Raza doesn’t represent anyone at all, let alone any of the people who are crossing the border illegally, let alone the bulk of them. Nor do Hispanic people who march in parades or act up at school represent these people.

    I don’t know which Hispanic people you’ve spoken to; why do you think they resemble the people we’re talking about? Are they illegal immigrants? Immigrants at all? Recently arrived and dirt poor?

    (Remember that American culture is not manifested in any of the superficial ways that many cultures are, such as language, cuisine, religion, music, or costume. There is no expectation that immigrants will abandon their native takes on any of these things. On the contrary, American culture includes all languages, cuisines, religions, musics, and costumes. It’s built on much deeper and more serious roots than that, and most immigrants quickly assimilate to it, because it’s why they sacrificed so much to come in the first place.)

    Milhouse (a04cc3)

  55. Ace is reporting that Ted Cruz has announced his endorsement of Mike Flynn in Central Illinois:

    Mike Flynn is the kind of courageous conservative we need in Washington. When Andrew Breitbart launched BigGovernment.com to expose ACORN and fight back against the institutional left and the political class, he chose Mike Flynn as his lieutenant. For 6 years, Flynn helped expose the media’s lies and led many fights against the Obama Administration and Washington’s entrenched political establishment. I’m happy to endorse his campaign for Congress. With Flynn, Central Illinois will have a strong voice to uphold the constitution, defend the 2nd Amendment and stand up to the media and political elite.” — Senator Ted Cruz

    Dana (86e864)

  56. Milhouse,

    I can tell you that, yes, La Raza does speak for a large swath of illegals. They nab onto those who have recently come across are easily manipulated by the forcefulness of the organization. They are also encouraged by relatives or friends who have been here longer, to get involved in their activism. La Raza presents themselves as “advocates” speaking up and on behalf of the undocumented.

    Work in public education, you will see it in action.

    Dana (86e864)

  57. Why focus on whether Trump is a real Republican? That discourages Independents and Democrats who agree with him from feeling like they can vote for a Republican in 2016.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  58. Ted Cruz has announced his endorsement of Mike Flynn in Central Illinois:

    Good ! Let’s see if he has any coat tails. He might.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  59. Trump is irrelevant in this, I think. He is simply an unelectable conduit who has provided an incredibly well-timed platform for any smart conservative. So far, only one smart conservative in the bunch.

    Dana (86e864)

  60. Cruz seems to have the ability to keep on point and I find little – very little – that I disagree with him on. I would be very supportive of a Cruz-Fiorina ticket.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  61. 55.Hoagie, La Raza doesn’t represent anyone at all, let alone any of the people who are crossing the border illegally, let alone the bulk of them. Nor do Hispanic people who march in parades or act up at school represent these people.

    I don’t know where you get your “information” r if you just make stuff up but either way it’s blatantly wrong. I have met and know some of these people personally so please don’t try and tell me who La Raza represents.

    You seem to be some sort of absolutist. If La Raza doesn’t represent every single Hispanic illegal immigrant then the argument becomes invalid to you. And I’ve dealt with this before with you and I have no intentions of going around in circles because you’re more interested in winning some point than addressing the problem at hand: illegal, criminal aliens killing American and not assimilating to our culture. If they were interested in assimilation Milhouse, those people who were here in 2008 would have assimilated. There would be no need for “Press one for English, Two for Spanish”, nothing but Hispanic newspapers would be printed in Spanish and no government forms would be in Spanish. If you can’t get that then drop the subject.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  62. I don’t know about all y’all, but my day isn’t complete without a nails-on-the-chalkboard lecture by the self-appointed Bloviator-In-Chief Milhouse.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  63. “The Man Who Would Crush the Joy Out of Christmas.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  64. Simply, Trump, unelectable warts and all, has made the right enemies. And Cruz is smart to notice.

    Bugg (46ac20)

  65. I think that “Truth” should start having SOME representation out there in the Realm of Competing Narratives.

    Good for Donald Trump; and good for Cruz for letting Truth stand for itself.

    ============================
    ============================

    In regard to another Truth:

    #13 -Gazzer
    “… We were using a figure of 12-15M in 08. Even the Border Patrol thinks it’s closer to 30 million.”

    = = = = =

    Thanks, Gazzer, I *knew* I remembered something like that.

    Ya might kinda wonder why TPTB keep minimizing the number of thru-the-southern-border illegals there might be, … eh? Even the GOP’s “Loyal Opposition” (hahaha) accepts the low-ball number without a murmur of dissent.

    A_Nonny_Mouse (be7ec0)

  66. Kevin M @ 4:24 pm “Most Mexican immigrants are rapists and murderers” which is what Trump carelessly projects. To the best of my knowledge Trump has not said (or “projected”, whatever that means) any such thing. He has accurately said that the uncontrolled stream of people coming illegally over the Mexican border (which is not the same set as “Mexican immigrants”) includes a significant number of rapists, murderers, and other violent criminals. That is an important fact that must be discussed, but everyone is afraid to.

    I tend to agree. Here is a transcript of what Trump said:

    The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems.

    (APPLAUSE)

    Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

    But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people.

    It’s coming from more than Mexico. It’s coming from all over South and Latin America, and it’s coming probably — probably — from the Middle East. But we don’t know. Because we have no protection and we have no competence, we don’t know what’s happening. And it’s got to stop and it’s got to stop fast.

    Is that well phrased? No. Does it, as phrased, read fairly and in context, seem to imply that a significant percentage of illegal immigrants are rapists? That’s not clear to me, because it’s so poorly phrased. Are many illegal immigrants undesirable, because they are criminals or have communicable diseases? Obviously — and that is the problem with not screening people who come into the country.

    I think Cruz is handling this just right: saying, hey, that’s not the way I’d say it, but I’m not going to play “denounce the Republican to make the media happy” — and anyway, there is a real problem here, which is being ignored by Washington.

    As usual, the way Cruz handles himself does his supporters proud. In my opinion.

    Patterico (3cc0c1)

  67. Hoagie, La Raza doesn’t represent anyone at all, let alone any of the people who are crossing the border illegally, let alone the bulk of them. Nor do Hispanic people who march in parades or act up at school represent these people.

    La Raza and the marchers and protesters are largely the last wave of illegal immigrants, speaking for themselves and the new illegal immigrants.

    So who do you think represents the newest wave of illegal immigrants?

    gahrie (12cc0f)

  68. Hoagie, La Raza doesn’t represent anyone at all, let alone any of the people who are crossing the border illegally, let alone the bulk of them. Nor do Hispanic people who march in parades or act up at school represent these people.

    Here’s what I think you’re missing, Milhouse. Juan and Maria come here illegally and settle. They have a child named Jose who is a U.S. citizen by birthright. Juan and Maria work hard to provide opportunities, and they have no time for the antics of the La Raza or reconquista crowd because they are trying to make a better life for their son. Jose, however, attends a school where his teachers have been carefully exposed to some of the more, shall we say, militant claims of the Social Justice Warriors. So even if his teachers aren’t full blown radical separatists, Jose is given a healthy dollop of U.S. perfidy in western and southwestern expansion, and our history of segregation, racism, and economic inequality, so Jose ironically gets indoctrinated with the idea that the country which provided opportunity to his mom and dad is actually some sort of oppressive soul-crushing oligarchy. Jose then goes on to the local state university, where he is heavily recruited by Marxists into the Chican@ Studies program which, rest assured, is heavily run by radicals. He graduates with a mostly useless degree that has only taught him that the world owes him and his friends some sport of special accommodation to make up for how horrible we have been to him. He’ll either become a professional protestor or he in turn will go into education to brainwash young hispanic minds with the crap that he has been taught.

    No, not every single immigrant story is going to be like that of Juan, Maria, and Jose. But enough of them are that La Raza and MEChA and MALDEF and the rest of the far-left organizations have no trouble flourishing. We ignore that at our peril, especially the fact that they heavily target the first and second-generation Americans for their indoctrination.

    JVW (8278a3)

  69. Ted Cruz is one of the most sane people in DC, without as much of the modern-day squish-squish-squish (aka political correctness gone berserk) that affects a high percentage of modern-day Republicans, much less independent “centrists.”

    Simply put, it was one thing to be a moderate in the context of over 50 to 60 years ago, when a person — believe it or not — supporting anti-lynching laws was seen, in some quarters, as controversial and rather liberal. Or when John Kennedy’s Catholic background was creating a bit of a stir in the media and public. Or when even the label of Dwight Eisenhower’s anti-illegal-immigration policy was the height of non-PC (it was called “Operation Wetback”), and when totally legal US citizens were accidentally caught up in the series of mass deportations of illegal immigrants sent back to Mexico. So it was one thing to be a squish-squish back then. But today? Oh, please.

    The never-ending cycles of human extremism grind on.

    Mark (e584c3)

  70. Trump has the flaccid weenies leaking all over theyselves.

    What a pathetic display by the hollow men, heads filled with straw, leaning on each other.

    DNF (208255)

  71. this is the first i have actually read about Trump comments.
    sorry, but i don’t see what is “racist” or bigoted with it. Perhaps he should have said “latino” instead of “Mexican” , but the border is really with Mexico.

    I haven’t seen or read his “double down” comments, maybe they went too far.

    But this? pshaw, its not like he called them all ‘wet backs’.

    seeRpea (0cf003)

  72. 61. I’m feeling you.

    DNF (208255)

  73. Immigration is a legitimate issue for the 2016 election. That Donald Trump says so makes that neither more nor less true.

    I’m unwilling to engage in the fiction that Donald Trump is a legitimate candidate for the GOP nomination. The deference and respect that Sen. Cruz has given him is, in my opinion, unwarranted. There are a host of other candidates vying for the GOP nomination who I like little better than Trump — Mike Huckabee comes to mind — but the Huckster has at least some sort of history as a GOP public office-holder.

    On the whole, I think Cruz is a more savvy and canny politician than most. On this particular occasion, though, I think former Texas governor Rick Perry has done better in repudiating Trump’s phrasing, without denying that immigration is a serious and substantial issue for debate during the primary.

    Trump is toxic. Pretending otherwise, even for an instant, is a mistake. It’s a mistake to try to capitalize on his celebrity even for otherwise laudable purposes, because when you wrestle with pigs, you end up dirtier, and the pigs like it.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  74. The msm and the dems may try to make Trump out to be a clown but the dems are the party of obama, Biden and kerry. Who wins the clown battle, now?

    jim (a9b7c7)

  75. The WaPo theorizes about why Cruz would “defend” Trum:

    Unlike other candidates who might similarly want that support, Cruz is relatively immune to the racial overtones of the issue. Cruz is Hispanic, of course, and the son of immigrants himself. While his family isn’t from Mexico, his comments in support of Trump have been in support of the man and the big-picture issue, not the specifics of Trump’s critique, which are very difficult to defend if you look at the facts. Cruz likely has the luxury of worrying far less about the general election repercussions of bashing illegal immigration than, say, Bush.

    It doesn’t take much imagination to envision a scene a few weeks from now in which Trump, for reasons ostensibly beyond his control, announces that he’s not going to run after all. And shortly thereafter, throwing his arm around Cruz to offer some support. “I respect Ted Cruz for the view he’s got,” Trump said on CNN last week. “He was really out there and strong on it.”

    “I shouldn’t say this,” Trump continued, “because, I assume, he’s an opponent, but the fact is he was very brave in coming out.”

    It’s not hard to see Cruz e-mailing those words out to everyone on Donald Trump’s yuge, classy e-mail list.

    Dana (86e864)

  76. Rick Perry’s comments in full:

    CHARLES PAYNE: You’re talking big tent, you’re talking inclusion. Now, you were also asked today about Donald Trump, some of the comments he’s made and the way he’s entered the GOP race. One thing that is undeniable is that he’s has made an amazing splash. He is rocketing up in the polls and certainly resonating with a lot of GOP voters. What is he doing wrong in your opinion?

    RICK PERRY: I don’t think he is reflecting the Republican Party with his statement about Mexicans. I think that was a huge error on his part and, number one, it’s wrong. When I think about the Hispanic in Texas, and I think about the individuals who have paid a great price, whether they were Tejanos at the Alamo in 1836 or whether it’s been as late as the last wars that we’ve had, when you see Hispanics being killed for America —

    PAYNE: With all due respect, he didn’t talk about people who were here legally, Mexican or otherwise. He was saying that Mexico itself —

    PERRY: Oh, but I would suggest to you he painted with a very broad brush, and I think that’s the problem. Yes, do we have some challenges? Nobody knows that border better than I do. Nobody has stepped into the fray on that border the way that I have —

    PAYNE: But are they sending bad people over here? Listen, I guess that’s the point, because let’s face it, he is resonating. I’ll give you this, corporate America is dumping him like crazy, Macy’s, NBC, they’re all lining up. Even the the city of New York. To a certain degree, that may reflect the greater electorate, but it also is just galvanizing and making Donald Trump a legendary figure within your party because he is standing up, he’s not a politician and is not afraid. What would a career politician like you say to that?

    PERRY: Well, what I would say is that we want somebody who has actually dealt with this before, not somebody that’s just going to shoot from the hip. And I will suggest to you I know how to secure the border, and the border security is the real issue here. It’s not painting with this broad brush that, obviously, I think Donald Trump painted with, where he tried to say Mexicans are bad people, they’re rapists and murderers. Yes, there are bad people that cross that border, but how about let’s get a commander-in-chief that knows how to secure the border, and at that particular time, we can have a conversation about how to deal with this immigration issue.

    Dana (86e864)

  77. I agree with Beldar that Trump is toxic and deserves no respect. He is a clown, pure and simple.

    That said, I review the quote from Cruz and the quote from Perry that Dana just supplied, and I personally like the quote from Cruz better. The quote from Perry smacks of an eagerness to back away from criticism of what is happening at the border. The quote from Cruz smacks of an eagerness to confront it — but in an adult, non-clownish, non-Trumpish manner.

    Don’t get me wrong. Perry’s quote may play better with the electorate. This is not a comment about who does a better job of pandering. As I have noted many times, I’m not good at that.

    But while Beldar sincerely prefers Perry’s phrasing — not because Beldar prefers the pandering, but (knowing Beldar) because that is Beldar’s principled stance — I happen to prefer Cruz’s.

    I will note, though: the fact that Beldar disagrees with me always gives me pause. Always.

    Patterico (3cc0c1)

  78. The republican party is a breeding ground for clowns. Blame boosh, not some rich guy speaking his mind. I forgot republicans have to chreck in with nitwits like the huckster, jebb, perry, rubio and both leaders of the house to get the okee dokey to speak. I hope donny makes you republicans vote for your gal hill.
    Cruz\West 2016

    mg (31009b)

  79. The chamber of commerce dopes have done way more damage to this country than donny trumpeter. And the republican party is an embarrassment to the working class. Be proud of your party, another presidential loss is right around the corner.

    mg (31009b)

  80. I had a response to Beldar, but I somehow deleted it. Anywho, I’ll try to re-write a few thoughts:

    At this point in time, I see the average voter being utterly frustrated by the border mess and needing a candidate to be confrontational and aggressive about the entire debacle. No double-speak, no political rhetoric; they are clamoring for red meat. And that’s what Trump fed them. Perry’s didn’t. While his tone was measured and his carefully chosen words came from experiencing the border up close, I think he shot himself in the foot when he said “how about let’s get a commander-in-chief that knows how to secure the border, and at that particular time, we can have a conversation about how to deal with this immigration issue”. Everything preceding it faded away as any having a conversation bit no longer resonates with voters because voters no longer trust politicians to mean what they say about immigration. Those days are gone. Trump smartly understood what the base needed to hear about immigration, and he hit the mark. Perry just sounded like another politician (again, Republicans no longer trust them on immigration). (Keep in mind, I I am referring to the average voter, not the close observer of politics, or pundit or well-informed.)

    While Trump certainly shouldn’t be taken seriously, my problem is I can’t take any other candidate too seriously either, if all they do is condemn Trump and offer no viable solutions in the same breath. Distancing themselves and condemning Trump is not what is going to get my positive attention. Stepping up into the opportunity and using it as a platform to express in some detail a plan for tackling immigration and border control would at least cause me to listen. Why has no one jumped in? Maybe Trump ultimately has the upper hand if it’s his full-frontal assault that compels other candidates to have to speak up. And how sad that it may take a complete goof like Trump to make them jump. Like the voters weren’t enough.

    And that’s where Cruz comes in. I like him for showing us that he will stand up to the MSM, that he isn’t afraid, and that he immediately used the moment to point the finger back at who is really responsible for this mess. (Just like when Jorge Ramos on Fusion TV was aggressively trying to force him into a corner regarding immigration and gay marriage and Cruz refused to play ball, much to Ramos’s obvious chagrin.) Cruz is a very savvy politician and master of the media.

    Also, I don’t think he felt compelled to condemn Trump because he understands he is not a serious candidate. Cruz displayed a political savvy in grabbing hold of an opportunity and taking full advantage of it. Further, given that he feels the same way about illegal immigration, he gladly let Trump open the door to the vexing problem before followed him through. Trump takes the heat and Cruz is able to make his points without being seen as the instigator. Rather, he’s a responder.

    Dana (86e864)

  81. Good that Cruz can use Trump, not abuse him. Adelson money plus Trump money could be helpful.

    mg (31009b)

  82. Dana:

    I can tell you that, yes, La Raza does speak for a large swath of illegals.

    How can you tell me that? Which illegal immigrants have elected or authorized La Raza to speak for them? Do you imagine La Raza tracks them down and asks them for their opinions?! Or that it cares what they think?! Even if there are some already-settled immigrants who have joined them, what has that got to do with the ones who are just arriving, and are undoubtedly only interested in keeping their heads down and making a living?

    La Raza presents themselves as “advocates” speaking up and on behalf of the undocumented.

    It can present itself as anything it likes, but that doesn’t make it true. You may as well say that Greenpeace represents the trees and the whales and whatnot, or that PETA represents the animals.

    Hoagie:

    I don’t know where you get your “information” r if you just make stuff up but either way it’s blatantly wrong. I have met and know some of these people personally so please don’t try and tell me who La Raza represents.

    Who are “these people”? Hoagie, you know nothing about the people who are crossing the border now, and nor does anyone else. They are not an undifferentiated mass, they are each individuals with their own opinions and goals, and not a single one of them has chosen anyone to speak for him. The only way you can know what someone wants is to ask him.

    Remember, we are not talking now about the criminals. gahrie specifically excluded them from his remarks which we are discussing. So don’t bring them up. The only question we are discussing is whether gahrie is correct that the non-criminals who are arriving now “are uneducated peasants unwilling to assimilate”. You claim he is correct, but neither you nor he can possibly know that. You are simply letting your prejudices run away with you.

    How Americans of Hispanic background behave is irrelevant to this question. So is how those who have already settled down behave, whether they originally came legally or not.

    those people who were here in 2008 would have assimilated. There would be no need for “Press one for English, Two for Spanish”,

    Assimilating to American culture doesn’t mean one is not more comfortable in ones native language. (For that matter, English is not America’s official language, and Puerto Ricans who speak nothing but Spanish are just as American as anyone else. Would you expect them to “assimilate” too?)

    Milhouse (a04cc3)

  83. Colonel

    I don’t know about all y’all, but my day isn’t complete without a nails-on-the-chalkboard lecture by the self-appointed Bloviator-In-Chief Milhouse.

    Scr*w you too. I could do without your blatherings too. You are a guest here just like me, so stop being rude to your fellow guests. I never attack people; you always do, and I’m sick of it.

    Milhouse (a04cc3)

  84. JVW @7:07 pm:

    Here’s what I think you’re missing, Milhouse.

    No, I’m not missing that at all. In fact I agree with your narration 100%. That is exactly my point. La Raza is all those Josés, not the Juans and Marias. It’s the Juans and Marias whom gahrie calls “uneducated peasants unwilling to assimilate”, and callously says “we have all of those we need thank you very much”.

    Milhouse (a04cc3)

  85. The msm and the dems may try to make Trump out to be a clown but the dems are the party of obama, Biden and kerry. Who wins the clown battle, now?

    Just because liars say something doesn’t mean it isn’t true. In this case it is true. And yet, in this particular case what he said was not only unobjectionable but true and vital.

    Milhouse (a04cc3)

  86. 84. …The only question we are discussing is whether gahrie is correct that the non-criminals who are arriving now “are uneducated peasants unwilling to assimilate”. You claim he is correct, but neither you nor he can possibly know that. You are simply letting your prejudices run away with you.

    Milhouse (a04cc3) — 7/6/2015 @ 11:50 pm

    Forget about who elected La Raza. Who elected you?

    Steve57 (4c9797)

  87. Who elected me as what?

    Milhouse (a04cc3)

  88. The fact is Cruz is playing this well. Forget about what you may think about Trump. The fact is that if you live in a border state then you know that the make-up in the illegal immigrant population has changed over the years. First, it isn’t just that many of these people do not want to assimilate into the US. They never assimilated into Mexico. Increasingly they’re native people who don’t even speak Spanish. I know quite a few Hispanics who are frustrated as h3ll. The media portrays all Hispanics as if they overwhelmingly support massive illegal immigration. The prior immigrants, second generation Americans, and even those of old Tejano families who revolted against Mexico nearly 200 years ago have been essentially silenced. They resent these newer illegal immigrants. Because of their issues with the Mexican government they don’t even try to get along with their Spanish-speaking neighbors.

    And there is a larger criminal element among these newer illegal immigrants.

    http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/12/18/rape-tree-found-near-texas-mexico-border/

    This photo appeared Tuesday night on the Texas Border Volunteers Facebook page. It shows a torn black bra and a small purse hanging from a tree in what is said to be a “rape tree” — a place where Mexican drug cartel members and coyotes who smuggle humans across the border rape one or more of the women among them. Rape trees have been known of since at least 2009, but they tend not to feature in any discussions of comprehensive immigration reform…

    Steve57 (4c9797)

  89. 89. Who elected me as what?

    Milhouse (a04cc3) — 7/7/2015 @ 12:18 am

    Arbiter of what questions may be discussed.

    Steve57 (4c9797)

  90. 89. Who elected me as what?

    Milhouse (a04cc3) — 7/7/2015 @ 12:18 am

    Arbiter of what questions may be discussed.

    I am not arbiter of anything. I didn’t arbitrate anything, I stated a fact. The topic of discussion was gahrie’s comment and nothing else. That is not an opinion, it is an indisputable fact.

    Milhouse (a04cc3)

  91. beevis and butthead, dung attracts flies tea baggers.

    gop stars (0581e0)

  92. Our host is very kind to me in his comments above, more kind than I deserve.

    I think Gov. Perry has had a good week in the press generally, and in particular in the tiny section of the press that is seriously covering and reporting on what the GOP candidates are saying.

    Gov. Perry is always, always at his strongest when he’s talking about Texas. I think he made excellent points in the past few days about, for example, how blue-state Democratic politicians and their policies have ended up actually disproportionately harming the very racial and economic constituencies that their Democratic politicians claim to care most about. The empirical evidence to which Gov. Perry pointed — that members of those constituencies are fleeing those blue states by the hundreds of thousands to come to places like Texas and Georgia — is powerfully persuasive. People do vote, metaphorically but meaningfully, with their feet.

    I nevertheless remain skeptical about Gov. Perry’s chances in the GOP primary, and I think he’s terribly vulnerable to criticism that he’s taking too much personal credit for Texas’ success, economic and otherwise, which arguably belongs elsewhere. Texans mostly want government to let them the hell alone and get out of their way. Gov. Perry, along with most of the other public officials Texans have elected in the last 20 years, have mostly done that. But I’m unconvinced that will work on the national stage; that stage needs a thorough housecleaning first, to undo the misdeeds and unwind the power appropriated by the federal government over the last several decades. Gov. Perry would have to up his game substantially — certainly compared to his performance in 2012, but even compared to any of his successful statewide campaigns — to become that agent of deconstructive conservative change. We’ll see if he seems to be up to that challenge, and perhaps he’ll surprise me.

    Sen. Cruz, as I’ve said here before, is playing a long game. I agree that he is doing the opposite of pandering, the opposite of being bland and conciliatory; I think he’s out to genuinely challenge and teach and reform. He probably cares less than Gov. Perry or any of the other GOP candidates about defusing or ameliorating the damage that Trump’s doing to the GOP’s near-term (2016) prospects.

    And there is zero doubt that what Trump’s doing is delighting the Democrats and their flunkies in the mainstream media, all of whom would vastly prefer putting the spotlight on Trump to giving serious coverage to other GOP politicians, be they Ted Cruz, Rick Perry, Scott Walker, Carly Fiorina, Marco Rubio, etc. It’s not like Hillary! is giving them anything they can talk about yet; indeed, she’s pointedly doing exactly the opposite of that.

    So I’m not criticizing Sen. Cruz for failing to seize the opportunity to disagree with and ridicule Trump. Indeed, I doubt that any other candidate has the potential — the verbal gifts, the self-discipline, the strategic long view — that Sen. Cruz has to actually bring about another sea change in American politics comparable to that which Reagan wrought in 1980. I’m happy Sen. Cruz is, as others here have pointed out, relentlessly focusing on substance and doing the opposite of pandering.

    But I’m also eager to see Trump disavowed and exposed as something other than a legitimate spokesman for the GOP. I think Perry’s remarks about Trump (which I believe include some other public statements beyond those quoted above; but I’m too lazy to hunt down a link at this hour of the morning) have been useful for that purpose, precisely because Perry didn’t just say, “Trump is an ass and a bigot,” but instead because Perry had some specific things to say about Mexico and about our immigration problems.

    The notion that Trump will turn into something akin to a Ross Perot-type spoiler — another rich, self-obsessed ass-clown, and one who put Bubba Clinton into office in 1992 — distresses me. But I’m content that Sen. Cruz doesn’t feel a compulsion to join in efforts to expose and isolate Trump, given that other GOP candidates (including but not limited to Gov. Perry) are doing a decent job of that already.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  93. Dana, respectfully, I disagree that Trump fed red meat to the GOP base. He fed bigotry and racism to bigots and racists. I certainly do agree that GOP politicians have been guilty of a great deal of double-talk and that the GOP base is frustrated with that. But I emphatically disagree that Trump’s sort of language, and especially that the chimera of actual policies that he’s proposed (e.g., that he’s going to “make Mexico pay for a fence”), is what’s needed to respond to those frustrations. Yes, he’s been confrontational and aggressive. But that’s true of almost all bigots and racists, and for every bigot and racist who responds to it and might show up to vote for Trump in a lost cause in the GOP primary, Trump’s words are disillusioning two conservative-leaning Hispanic voters who might otherwise have voted GOP in the general election, and energizing three more Hispanic voters who always vote Democratic and might otherwise, but for Trump, have stayed home.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  94. That other GOP politicians have recited, as an insincere mantra, “First secure the borders!” doesn’t mean that there’s some other good first step to solving our immigration problems. We just need GOP politicians who actually believe that, and who’ll actually do it. When Gov. Perry says “We need to secure the border,” I don’t think in his case that’s an insincere platitude designed to cover a willingness to grant amnesty; and I think on that particular issue, precisely because he’s been the governor of Texas, Perry has some credibility that some of the other GOP candidates, and that many serving GOP politicians, lack when they’ve said, insincerely, “First secure the border!”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  95. That read like a sore loser, Beldar.
    Blaming Perot because boosh sucked as a lying candidate. The typical response from team r. Republicans always pass the blame when they get beat, rather than look at what a faulty candidate they trot out. If I remember correctly booshes numbers did not change much during that election.

    mg (31009b)

  96. Marco Rubio, Rick Perry, Jeb Bush, Chris Christie, and Lindsay Graham have all denounced his comments and suggested that he is damaging the brand of the Republican Party with his criticism. This in spite of polling data saying otherwise.

    Sorry, there is NOTHING in the polling data linked that “[says] otherwise.” It merely shows Trump at 12% support – BUT the GOP numbers are based on only 256 respondents, giving a MOE of 5%. So Trump could be behind Christie for all that polls tells us.

    On the larger sample opinion on immigration as an extremely or very important issue, the numbers are essentially unchanged since 2007.

    Pandering to Trump is bad enough; he does indeed cheapen the process and damage serious discussion of the immigration crisis. But misleading your readers is unforgivable. Claiming confirmation from a link that does no such thing is more what I expect from trolls.

    Estragon (ada867)

  97. To echo Dana-GOP DC Inc. has been the clown college of the US body politic for a very long time. Trump is saying these things because on every major issue the GOP has talked tough until Election Day and forgotten everything they said they would do the very next day . I doubt Trump will ever actually file the necessary financials to run. But understand- GOP DC Inc. by failing to deliver on ANYTHING since the day Reagan went home made this Trump spectacle not only possible but necessary.

    Cruz is wise to follow Trump on this. If you play by the MFM’s rules and apologize you are playing their game.Cruz, alone among the serious candidates, grasps this. He will upend the card table rather than go through that. He is not gonna sit there and let George Stephenopoulos talk about nonsense back alley abortions without mentioning $18 trillion in debt. If you stick to you guns, you will in fact come out stronger. That the MFM on such a critical issue won’t even allow discussion is really what should be grounds for apology and contrition, not pointing out the problem.

    Bugg (46ac20)

  98. 95.Dana, respectfully, I disagree that Trump fed red meat to the GOP base. He fed bigotry and racism to bigots and racists.

    There it is! Gotta get out the bigot and racist card ASAP. So now suddenly, after years in the spot light Trump emerges as a bigot and racist because he stated the obvious but did it in a harsh way. Trumps been around a long time and I’ve not heard him called racist before. Or will that be the leftist mantra this election: So-in-so said this about (fill in protected victim minority) so he’s a bigot, racist and may as throw on homophobe. Then run around screaming how you want a conversation yet every time someone try’s to have one get instantly offended and call them names.

    What Trump fed was truth to liars and they can’t handle the truth. Thousands of American citizens are killed, murdered, raped, robed and in other ways harmed every year by illegal aliens. That’s a fact Jack, like it or not. Now you might not like the ineloquent way Trump said it but it doesn’t mean he’s wrong nor a racist or bigot.

    Yes, he’s been confrontational and aggressive. But that’s true of almost all bigots and racists, and for every bigot and racist who responds to it and might show up to vote for Trump in a lost cause in the GOP primary, Trump’s words are disillusioning two conservative-leaning Hispanic voters who might otherwise have voted GOP in the general election, and energizing three more Hispanic voters who always vote Democratic and might otherwise, but for Trump, have stayed home.

    Trump is disillusioning two conservative leaning Hispanic voters”? Who are you kidding and where are these voters? I believe Bush got more Hispanic votes than any other Republican in recent history and he got 40% of the Hispanic votes cast. That means he lost 60%! News flash, Beldar, the Hispanic voters are happily moving into the same rut black voters moved into decades ago. They want those Democrat promised goodies, they need those Democrat promised goodies and they will vote Democrat to get them.

    There is no such thing as two disillusioned conservative leaning Hispanic voters, Beldar. And there are no three others who vote Democrat that would have suddenly seen the light and voted Republican in the general. They ain’t there Beldar. They are hypothetical numbers pulled out of thin air in the false hope that for some reason illegal Hispanics entering the US from socialist and semi-socialist countries will suddenly cast off the yoke of socialism they grew up with and become card-carrying Republican patriots….because! Thy won’t. They will become exactly what their upbringing and cultural propensity forces them to be: leftists and Democrats.

    The Republican Party needs to concentrate on inspiring people who want a strong, free, traditional America to vote GOP, not try and wrestle sections of leftists from Democrats. That will never happen. You notice the Democrats don’t fret over how many NRA members or Christian Evangelicals they can get from the Republicans. So why are we concerned with Hispanics?

    As you guys know I’m involved in the Korean community. I can tell you flat out about 75% of the Koreans here are Democrats. I argue with them constantly yet I can’t get them off the Democrat plantation. They even realize and admit the Democrats stand for everything they loathe yet they stay registered D. If I can’t change the hearts and minds of pro free market, capitalistic, hard working small businessmen in the Korean community what makes you think the Republican party will attract a bunch of illegal construction workers and fruit pickers who frequently are paid under the table, collect government handouts, pay little or no taxes and stick it to the American taxpayer everywhere from the emergency room freebies to the education and school lunch freebies?

    So Beldar, maybe Trump didn’t wax poetic but the guy is correct. The immigration policy as it applies to illegal south of the border types is dangerous to our national, physical, economic, military, security, family, cultural and social health. If you can’t see and readily admit the danger these illegal bring here then you do not deserve to be part of the discussion because you cannot fully comprehend the grave risk.

    BTW, it’s not just Mexicans coming across that border. You may be willing to wait till someone I love is murdered, maimed, raped by an illegal or blown up by a terrorist who illegally crossed our Southern border, but are you willing to wait for one you love?

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  99. Pandering to Trump is bad enough; he does indeed cheapen the process and damage serious discussion of the immigration crisis

    He did not “cheapen” the process nor did he “damage” the serious discussion on the immigration crisis, Estragon. He started it! In case you aren’t aware, until Trump started talking there basically was NO serious discussion about it by the candidates.

    We need to understand and realize anything in the media we’re “talking” about is generally instituted and controlled by leftists in that media and it’s there to distract us from something we actually should be talking about. Worried about a Rebel flag? Where’s Hillarys! emails? Addressing SSM, how’s that Iran treaty going? The MSM only talks about the things that help leftists, i.e. Democrats. The sooner we all learn that, the sooner we can once again win an election.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  100. Cruz has a “not-just-another-politician” credibility that Perry does not. On the other hand, Perry has better hair. (But Walker is my boy.)

    nk (dbc370)

  101. Frankly shocked anyone here would break out the RAYCESS card to try to end the discussion. We all now this is a daily leftist tactic to try to shut down any discussion, especially when the facts go against them. We’ve had 2 guys who ran scared campaigns vs. The One, spending their entire campaigns worrying like little girls that some MFM might possibly perhaps maybe call them RAYCESS for pointing out what a complete incompetent disaster Obama would be. We saw Romney wipe the floor with him in the 1st debate and then….nothing.

    Like Rev. BHH, stop worrying about what the other side says; they will call you RAYCESS no matter what. Stick to your guns. This race will be won by the GOP candidate only if he gets lots of typical white working and middle class people in his column. Cruz herein is putting us on notice he may be that guy.

    Bugg (46ac20)

  102. Bugg, that was my point. Sorry if I was obtuse. For Beldar to start screaming racist, bigot accomplishes nothing. And Trump is neither so don’t give ideas to the enemy. Hell, the WH press Sec said yesterday that this young lady in San Fran shot was the fault of the Republicans. So Republican’s create Sanctuary Cities? Name a Sanctuary City started or lead by a Republican. Just one. Let’s keep these liars on track and forget the racist, bigot crap is all I’m saying.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  103. BTW Bugg, we have to worry about what the other side says or we will be caught like Romney et al were. In order to defeat them we have to understand what they’re lying about and to whom the lie is directed. When we start calling our own bigot or racist does that help us? So you don’t like Trump, I understand. But don’t go all leftist on me and turn not liking Trump into a personal slime-his-name fest. That’s what Democrats do. We’re better than that.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  104. They even realize and admit the Democrats stand for everything they loathe yet they stay registered D. If I can’t change the hearts and minds of pro free market, capitalistic, hard working small businessmen in the Korean community

    That’s a pathetic reality, implying the community you describe here in the US is perhaps more intrinsically liberal than its counterparts are in Asia. If such trends play out to their logical (or likely) conclusion, then the concept of ultimately the most crucial vote being people voting with their feet and the moving van, and the power of demographics trumping politics, really come into play and are the only thing a sane person can focus on. (Which is why I feel sorry for rational, practical, sane people trapped in places like Greece or Mexico, etc.)

    Liberalism is like a mental disorder, the emotions of a bratty college kid, so when fully grown adults manifest that particular mindset, look out for flying debris and other messes up ahead!

    Mark (e584c3)

  105. Mark, it used to make me absolutely crazy that hard working Korean entrepreneurs would register and actually vote Democrat. I’d sit them down and explain the current (at the time) Democrat policies and they would universally be against them then turn around a vote for them. Locally they voted for higher taxes, more and oppressive regulations, taxes on alcohol, cigarettes, higher minimum wage and the list went on. Then, as a few did, they could no longer sustain a small barely growing family business, they would close down and get a job. I just could not get through to them that they were their own worst enemy. And the really,, really sad thing is all these Koreans send their kids to the best schools and colleges….where they too are brainwashed into leftist foolishness. There is something just so appealing about the leftist ability to mindlessly drift through life that attracts people it amazes me. They are all emotion and no thought.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  106. There is something just so appealing about the leftist ability to mindlessly drift through life that attracts people it amazes me.

    Hoagie, I think such a dynamic is made even worse because it’s still seen as improper or rude among many folks out there to be in mixed company (such as at family gatherings, at the workplace, etc) and speaking in very blatant or candid terms about people’s ideology, about their liberalism, centrism or conservatism. I think some of that stems from the idea that if one doesn’t want to cause a fight to break out, it’s best to avoid talking about religion and politics.

    I think some of that is also due to a wide variety of people being, if you will, “closeted liberals” or having lots of squishy emotions (and therefore susceptible to going against their better judgment) and being embarrassed or gun-shy about that aspect of themselves.

    Mark (e584c3)

  107. Estragon #98,

    I object to the hostile tone and misleading content of your comment. First, Dana’s link shows Trump polling at 12% in a national poll after his immigration comments, just 1 point behind the leader Bush. That suggests a significant percentage of Republicans are responding to what Trump says. It is also consistent with a contemporaneous Fox News poll that also shows Trump getting a big bounce in the polls (from 4% to 11%) following his immigration comments.

    Second, you claim the poll is based on 256 respondents with a margin of error of 5%. Dana’s link says it is based on 1,017 respondents with a margin of error of 3%. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, which is something you clearly aren’t doing for Dana, then I assume your point is the poll probably talked to less than 300 Republicans. If so, then your concern should be with polling and not Dana, because the Fox News’ poll I linked is based on a similar 1,005 respondents — of which probably a third or less are Republicans — with a margin of error of 3%. Do we know for sure how the GOP candidates are polling based on these samples? No, but there are methods to polling that give us a snapshot of how the public feels.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  108. I guess Annie Coulter called the Donald’s GOP critics “a bunch of pussies”.

    I must decry the gender-specific nature of her chosen pejorative.

    They are more properly termed red, throbbing, eviscerated and ruptured recta.

    DNF (208255)

  109. Beldar,

    I am saddened to see you label people as “bigots and racists” who respond to or agree with Trump’s comments. It’s bad enough when Obama and his sycophants do this, but to see you gratuitously label people with the worst possible description is beyond disappointing.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  110. 97. Hand the advocate hiz azz back when done chewing, mmmK?

    DNF (208255)

  111. I think many people, especially Republicans, are responding to Trump’s willingness to fight. It’s hard enough to lose but to have our leaders expect us to always lose gracefully and politely is getting old.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  112. “hello lil illegal mexican immigrant please to not rape me,” said happyfeet.

    “I would never do that,” said the lil illegal mexican immigrant. “Probably.”

    “Good enough,” said happyfeet. “Hey you wanna play star wars?”

    “Boy howdy do I,” said the lil illegal mexican immigrant. “What a great country!”

    “Right?” said happyfeet. “Plus you get oodles of food stamps!”

    happyfeet (831175)

  113. I cannot believe the debates have yet to begin and Huckelsbee has clawed his way into my top tier.

    Dog sheeet has more cachet than the Republican Party.

    DNF (208255)

  114. beldar is right to have reservations, about trump, since his remarks are scattershot, Le Toupee has focused on an essential truth, albeit untactfully, hence Squirrel

    narciso (ee1f88)

  115. See, this is exactly what Cruz was talking about.

    nk (dbc370)

  116. 114. “Politely and gracefully”

    No saint, huh? Must be semantics.

    DNF (208255)

  117. @ Beldar,

    Dana, respectfully, I disagree that Trump fed red meat to the GOP base. He fed bigotry and racism to bigots and racists. I certainly do agree that GOP politicians have been guilty of a great deal of double-talk and that the GOP base is frustrated with that.


    Beldar, if the substance of Trump’s comments resonate with voters (and commenters here), then they, and we are “bigots” and “racists”??

    But I emphatically disagree that Trump’s sort of language, and especially that the chimera of actual policies that he’s proposed (e.g., that he’s going to “make Mexico pay for a fence”), is what’s needed to respond to those frustrations.


    Trump’s rhetoric was typical of his off-the-cuff mouthiness and emotionally charged reactionary spews that happen on a regular basis. Of course his points could have, and should have, been phrased more aptly and succinctly. But isn’t that a matter of semantics and not substance? Did he say anything not true? Perhaps, he turned off potential voters (Hispanics), but perhaps he also woke up apathetic voters who sat out the last few elections because they felt there was no longer any point in voting because nothing is ever done to stem the flow of illegal immigration and instead have been delivered nothing but empty promises – from Republicans.

    Yes, he’s been confrontational and aggressive. But that’s true of almost all bigots and racists, and for every bigot and racist who responds to it and might show up to vote for Trump in a lost cause in the GOP primary, Trump’s words are disillusioning two conservative-leaning Hispanic voters who might otherwise have voted GOP in the general election, and energizing three more Hispanic voters who always vote Democratic and might otherwise, but for Trump, have stayed home.


    Again, with “bigots” and “racists” – if good and decent people become aggressive about the vexing, never-ending issue of illegal immigration, do they immediately become part of the “bigot” and “racist” camps? Since when does being confrontational and aggressive preclude sound judgment and reasonableness?

    It seems to me that you would like to see a gentlemanly discourse regarding immigration take place with our candidates and the base under the big tent. I know I would prefer that. However, I believe those days are gone. Too much water under the bridge, too many lies and empty promises from Republican politicians, and every day that our porous border allows more illegals to enter the country, both responsible and criminal, the more the frustration builds. And most significantly, frustrated citizens appear unwilling to stand for it any longer. Trump tapped into that vein. That you believe these people to be “bigoted” and “racist” is to smear voters who want to see our laws already on the book, enforced.

    The danger of ignoring the will of voters for so long and increasing levels of frustration is that it can beg a “mob” mentality, but that’s what happens when the political class picks and chooses which laws to enforce and which laws to break.

    Personally, I don’t believe Trump is a viable candidate nor electable. I think most reasonable Republicans agree; but that he stepped in it and pushed an issue (however inartfully) to the forefront of political conversation, is a good thing. Can not even a unwitting fool with a big mouth be useful to propel serious candidates to address this vexing issue with more than sound bytes and empty rhetoric? After all, even God used Balaam’s ass to speak to man.

    Dana (86e864)

  118. p.s. Trump really should have specifically differentiated between the legal and illegal immigrant. He has historically and consistently been afflicted with chronic foot-in-mouth disease.

    I want to hear other candidates explain why Trump’s comments are wrong and then explain what policy they will offer to actually solve the problem. Waiting until someone gets elected and *then* having a “conversation” about it is just more of the same. To me, that’s more of the “You have to vote for the bill to see what’s in the bill” political speak.

    Dana (86e864)

  119. Republicans failed to lead on this whole immigrant thing preferring sneaky marco sleazio backroom deals and the blatant lies of Meghan’s coward brainwashed disgrace-to-the-uniform whore daddy

    they had no principles at all their only concern was how they could deliver fresh young latino boys to Tom Donahue

    and when Mr. Trump points this out they’re all hey no fairs

    you’ll never know dear Mr. Beldar how much Trump loves you please don’t take my Donald away

    not that i would ever vote for him or anything

    but he’s a good role model for the chamberslut republicans

    happyfeet (831175)

  120. well many of their policy prescriptions are variations on the underpants gnome theory of governance, Cruz pushed to defund DHS if memory serves, but you know Ragnarok was foretold.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  121. *Tom Donohue* i mean

    happyfeet (831175)

  122. really loved that Brothers Johnson thing more than beans Mr. narciso

    it was fun and big-hearted i thought

    but it didn’t really want for a season 4 i decided

    happyfeet (831175)

  123. Well said, Dana.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  124. I see what you did there, I’m looking forward to the next season of continuum,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  125. continuum i couldn’t get through season one

    I’m super-excited about this though

    i can’t put book one down i haven’t read anything this balls-out fun since hunger games

    happyfeet (831175)

  126. seems interesting, but after Ascension, one can’t help be weary,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  127. yeah i bailed on that one toot toot sweeter sweet

    happyfeet (831175)

  128. Nice read, thanks Dana.

    racistbigotedmg (31009b)

  129. p.s. Trump really should have specifically differentiated between the legal and illegal immigrant.

    He did. His remarks were specifically directed at the people (of all nationalities) that the Mexican government is sending illegally over the border.

    Milhouse (a04cc3)

  130. DRJ, my friend, you wrote, in #112 above: “I am saddened to see you label people as ‘bigots and racists’ who respond to or agree with Trump’s comments. It’s bad enough when Obama and his sycophants do this, but to see you gratuitously label people with the worst possible description is beyond disappointing.”

    You’ve re-cast my actual words into an indictment of everyone who “respond[s] to or agree[s] with Trump’s comments.”

    That’s not at all what I said, or meant. I think you credit me with enough precision in self-expression to have said that, if that were what I meant.

    I said, and I maintain, that Trump is a bigot and a racist. I said, and I maintain, that he was deliberately appealing to bigots and racists.

    But not everyone who’s concerned about immigration is a bigot or a racist. Most of them are, instead, fair and thoughtful people. They’re much more likely to have responded to and agreed with, for example, Sen. Cruz’ statements about immigration.

    If the distinctions I’m attempting to draw and maintain are lost on even someone as rational and thoughtful as DRJ, then I’m obviously not accomplishing anything by commenting here on this thread, or probably on this topic generally. So hereafter, I shan’t.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  131. I don’t think (especially in light of his clarification) that Beldar was saying that anyone who agreed with Trump to any degree is a bigot or racist. With Beldar’s most recent comment, it seems clear to me that Beldar was saying that Trump knew there were bigots and racists in Trump’s audience, and that he was appealing to them.

    But I think that’s too narrow and uncharitable a reading of Trump’s comments. While Donald Trump is someone for whom I have zero respect, and who deserves no deference in his ridiculous role as a self-declared candidate for the Republican nomination, I think we also have to recognize that he lacks Beldar’s precision of speech. Trump said what he said badly. (He’s Donald Trump. Of course he did.) But there is a grain of truth in what he said. As noted above, failing to screen who comes into the country is a recipe for accepting criminals and people with communicable diseases. That’s just common sense.

    I think if Beldar could place to one side Trump’s off-putting personality, and read his remarks charitably (meaning: understanding that Trump is a buffoon who can’t speak well off the cuff, and will not phrase things in a way befitting an actual Presidential candidate), I think Beldar would have to concede that grain of truth. And it feels like the other candidates are running away from that truth.

    Again: they probably figure this is good politics, and I am bad at knowing what is good politics. But I am good at knowing what is honest, and Cruz’s reaction seems the most honest of them all.

    Patterico (3cc0c1)

  132. Sigh. First, I’d rather have you commenting here than Cruz in the White House, Beldar.

    Second, I think that Cruz practiced “shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves” both in regard to Trump and to those who will try to attribute Trump’s statements to all Republicans. I’d go so far as to say that he cleaned up Trump’s act.

    nk (dbc370)

  133. I read Trump as knowing exactly what he was saying, and meaning to offend.

    I also think it is the most reasonable reading of his original remarks to say he labelled Mexican immigrants in general as drug users and criminals, and his addon phrase that some Mexicans (not most, only some) are good people is a version of the old “some of my best friends” line.

    You can be charitable, but Trump does not deserve charitable readings. He meant to offend, meant to put himself front and center, meant for all if this to be about Trump. His ego is probably bigger than Obama’s.

    kishnevi (91d5c6)

  134. nk, I think you are right about both Beldar and Cruz. But I think Cruz should have thrown Trump overboard before restating what Trump said.

    kishnevi (294553)

  135. Trump is directly over the target.
    I wish he would have run as a democrat. He would be driving bill’s wife nuts.

    mg (31009b)

  136. I said, and I maintain, that Trump is a bigot and a racist. I said, and I maintain, that he was deliberately appealing to bigots and racists.

    In today’s world of liberalism and political-correctness run amok, “bigot” and “racist” have become so overused and overblown, that those two words could just as easily mean a person who doesn’t pull punches, who isn’t cowed by phony-baloney liberals.

    When I see a wide variety of people of the left who easily and casually mouth off about how bad racism and bigotry are, and far too quickly and easily label someone as a racist or bigot, residing in certain neighborhoods that aren’t, er, uh, too racially/ethnically diverse, and certainly sending their children to schools that, er, uh, aren’t exactly too racially/ethnically diverse, I want to tell them to put a sock in it.

    Mark (710c48)

  137. To me Trump said nothing that I believe to be racist or bigoted. Tactless, yes. Bad form, absolutely. In his life he has done nothing that I am aware of that would indicate to me he is either a bigot or a racist. He’s owned a lot of businesses and large businesses. He has employed people of all races and religions. He has and continues to employ people all over the world. I have never heard of a law suit about discrimination against him based on race or religion. Have any of you? Therefore, I submit to you that saying he is a racist and bigot is in itself racist and bigoted against him for no provable reason. Now, I wouldn’t be surprised if some opportunist didn’t try and make a name for himself and a payday for himself by coming out now and suing The Donald. But that’s another issue.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  138. Trump’s declaration that he would not only build a real fence, but would make MEXICO pay for it is the most electrifying (pun intended) statement I have t=yet heard in this election cycle.

    I completely agree with Beldar and the many others who lament that such a wonderful piece of politics had to come from the loathsome DT. However, it is imperative that unabashed and unafraid conservatism be shouted to the deaf voters who have refused to hear hard truths for generations. DT usefully forced a focus on a winning, and proper, course by our candidates.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  139. Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

    I dunno. I read that as Trump saying all the people coming over are criminals, drug addicts and rapists. Which is kind of funny because the real problem people have with them — when you get right down to it — is that they are willing to work hard, and for less money than natives, driving low-skill Americans out of the job market.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  140. Trump said what he said badly. (He’s Donald Trump. Of course he did.) But there is a grain of truth in what he said.

    Well, sure. I’m also sure that there was a grain of truth in what Todd Akin said. But when I said that he “projects” the idea that “all Mexicans are criminals” it is his poor phrasing, coupled with any basic understanding of the MSM’s mindset, and you predictably have “Trump says Mexican immigrants are criminals and rapists.” It’s as predictable as tomorrow’s sunrise and if he’s so utterly incompetent that he doesn’t know this, he has no business sullying the GOP’s reputation.

    In short, Trump is the guy who you wish was on the other side the moment he opens his mouth. Not worth defending. I think that Cruz is cynically setting himself up to inherit the Donald’s support when he inevitably folds.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  141. I also think it is the most reasonable reading of his original remarks to say he labelled Mexican immigrants in general as drug users and criminals, and his addon phrase that some Mexicans (not most, only some) are good people is a version of the old “some of my best friends” line.

    No, that is not a reasonable reading at all. He was specifically talking about the the people currently coming over the border without any check, not immigrants generally, let alone Mexican immigrants generally. And he said some of those people are good, not some Mexicans.

    As for the old “some of my best friends are X” line, the way it’s usually used it makes no sense. If some of a person’s best friends really are X, then it’s perfectly reasonable for him to use that as proof that he is not anti-X. People who imagine that using this line actually proves the opposite are idiots. The only time that line is an object of fun is when the person using it can’t name those friends, because they don’t really exist.

    Milhouse (a04cc3)

  142. Trump’s declaration that he would not only build a real fence, but would make MEXICO pay for it is the most electrifying (pun intended) statement I have t=yet heard in this election cycle.

    How could he make Mexico pay for it?

    Milhouse (a04cc3)

  143. Time for donny to move on to the next subject that puts team r over the edge. He isn’t running but he has jebby, the rube and the rest of the chamber of commerce minions hiding in the shadows. You are a freak donny, and team r deserves you. I love popcorn.

    mg (31009b)

  144. team r is leaderless.
    The fact the trumpeter is controlling the narrative for the gop is laughable. Team r is as weak as it has ever been. Other than Cruz these team r hacks are liars and thieves. This is a question for you team r chamber of commerce lovers – Will you vote for the trumpeter if he miraculously wins the republican nomination? ya, didn’t think so…

    mg (31009b)

  145. 135. One definite advantage of the Governor over the Senator:

    He’s not an ‘effin shyster.

    DNF (208255)

  146. How could he make Mexico pay for it?

    I guess by putting a tariff on goods coming from Mexico and targeting the revenue to a fence?

    I dunno. I read that as Trump saying all the people coming over are criminals, drug addicts and rapists.

    Sorry, Kevin M but Trump did not say “all” of anything or anyone. Not that it matters since when someone’s trying to make a point he’s libel to say all meaning “most, some or a lot”. It’s a slip of the tongue and I know I’ve done it. If we’re gonna go around expecting people to be perfect we’re gonna end up as disappointed leftists. They’re the ones who can’t get over slavery 150 years ago to recognize the contributions and accomplishments of America. One flaw and you’re out.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  147. 12. “Fraud and a con man”.

    We in Crack Whore have a quintessential representative of the poseur, flim flam man, panhandler, confidence artiste, etc. By definition the phenotype possesses no accomplishments beyond a temporary miasma created in the minds of his dupes that dissipates despite the former’s presence and continued misrepresentations.

    To claim the Donald is such a specie is itself an example of the blatant mendacity practiced by the class.

    DNF (208255)

  148. Yes, DNF. The real poseur, the real grifter resides in the White House. Trump has more employees just in Trump Tower than Obumkin ever personally employed in his life. And Trump pays them with his own money, not tax dollars.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  149. How could he make Mexico pay for it?

    Milhouse (a04cc3) — 7/7/2015 @ 11:53 pm

    “Let loose the world-class Dogs of Milhouse…”

    – Donald Trump

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  150. Has anyone really paid attention to the audio of his remarks? Trump did NOT say: “They’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime. They’re rapists and some, I assume, are good people, but I speak to border guards and they’re telling us what we’re getting.”

    What Trump actually said was:

    They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime, their rapists. And some, I assume, are good people, but I speak to border guards and they’re telling us what we’re getting.”

    “They are” rapists vs. They are bringing “their” rapists.

    That’s a big difference.

    Listen to the audio carefully.

    School Marm (e30dcc)

  151. Rushbo on the obvious:

    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/07/08/donald_trump_s_blinding_achievement

    Fox and Republicans are simply kissing off the base. GLWT.

    DNF (208255)

  152. If the GOP had been better at running govt. Trump’s words would never be heard.

    mg (31009b)


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