Patterico's Pontifications


Salon: Smashing Police Cars Is Legitimate

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:47 am


Baltimore’s violent protesters are right: Smashing police cars is a legitimate political strategy

I do not advocate non-violence—particularly in a moment like the one we currently face. In the spirit and words of militant Black and Brown feminist movements from around the globe, I believe it is crucial that we see non-violence as a tactic, not a philosophy.

Non-violence is a type of political performance designed to raise awareness and win over sympathy of those with privilege. When those on the outside of struggle—the white, the wealthy, the straight, the able-bodied, the masculine—have demonstrated repeatedly that they do not care, are not invested, are not going to step in the line of fire to defend the oppressed, this is a futile political strategy. It not only fails to meet the needs of the community, but actually puts oppressed people in further danger of violence.

(I know, I know. It’s a deliberately provocative piece trolling for hits, and I probably shouldn’t be responding to it. Still . . . here goes.)

Actually, as Thomas Sowell has shown, riots such as have occurred in ghetto areas from time to time have a greater negative impact on the residents of those areas than they do on the Establishment. These riots discourage businesses from entering the areas and help ensure a hopeless environment for the good people who live in those communities.

What’s more, we don’t applaud violent thuggishness from anyone, and accepting it in Baltimore is an example of condescension — a mindset that is explained by the lady in this video:

(H/t to my sister.)

160 Responses to “Salon: Smashing Police Cars Is Legitimate”

  1. Ding.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  2. Do you consider the behavior of police who kill a suspect while in custody to be an example of “thuggish” behavior? Or do you do all you can to try to justify that conduct, giving every benefit of the doubt to the police? I agree with your comment that violence like in Baltimore often results in worse situations for the community, and I would counsel against violent protests or riots, but let’s not lose sight that the trigger here was another instance of someone dying at the hands of police under circumstances that don’t appear to favor the police.

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  3. Salon only does this, so Chase gets a writeoff as a tax loss, they were originally funded by Hambrecht and Quist, but Chase bought them out,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  4. smash em all

    i don’t care

    i’m not invested

    and i’m sure not gonna step in the line of fire to defend the poor lil oppressed baltimore people

    they got their problems

    i got my problems

    happyfeet (831175)

  5. it’s less likely for this to happen in your berg, pikachu, but not out of the question, if Jarrett deems it so.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  6. this sort of thing is only going to happen more and more often in more and more places Mr. narciso

    failmerica is on a trajectory, you see

    it’s all food stamps and crappy health cares and union piggies all up in the schools from here on out

    keep your head down low and stay quick on your feet is what you gotta do

    happyfeet (831175)

  7. Suppressing riots is a legitimate strategy too, or at least it was prior to President Divisive’s Administration.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  8. The actions of the police were the excuse not the trigger. Burning down stores and assisted living facilities is never a rational response to perceived abuse by authority. Arson is and should be a capitol crime, the proper response to the rioters is to lock them up and put down any that resist.

    JNorth (5fe1bf)

  9. Do you consider the behavior of police who kill a suspect while in custody to be an example of “thuggish” behavior? Or do you do all you can to try to justify that conduct, giving every benefit of the doubt to the police? I agree with your comment that violence like in Baltimore often results in worse situations for the community, and I would counsel against violent protests or riots, but let’s not lose sight that the trigger here was another instance of someone dying at the hands of police under circumstances that don’t appear to favor the police.

    I don’t know all of the facts surrounding Freddie Gray’s death, nor do you (I assume).

    So I will withhold judgment until the facts are in.

    Patterico (c9faae)

  10. that don’t appear to favor the police.
    That’s the operative word there, isn’t it? It “appeared” to the race hustlers that Trayvon Martin was a sweet angelic boy executed by an evil white man, while to most people it was clear that a Hispanic man defended himself while being beaten by a fully grown black man who was attempting to kill him. It “appeared” to the race hustlers that Michael Brown was a gentle giant of a boy who was accosted on the street by an evil white cop who executed him even though he had his hands in the air and was begging the cop not to shoot, while to most people it was clear that a police officer attempted to detain a suspect who just robbed a store and ended up with the much larger black man attempting to take the officer’s weapon and then charging the officer when the officer didn’t just stop chasing him. So forgive me if I don’t instantly grant a free pass to violent thugs based on your perception of how things “appear”.

    prowlerguy (3af7ff)

  11. It’s premature for an “uprising”; there is a still a process to go through to deal with admitted and possibly worse than admitted conduct of Baltimore police. I don’t know what they did to him; its clear they lied about it. Video shows classic signs of spinal cord injury as they are dragging him up from the ground.

    Why they didn’t call EMT’s on the spot to the scene can only be explained by extreme ignorance or callous disregard for his condition; and they lied about it in their report.

    Even if he injured himself he required immediate medical attention and every possible mitigation of further injury. But they just dragged him to the truck, tossed him on, yanked him off, and did nothing to protect his spine or attend to his injury and, long story short, they caused his death.

    The town is run by progressives. So is the police force. Juries in Baltimore are liberal. Why presume bad conduct will be forgiven?

    SarahW (6f3980)

  12. JNorth@8 – are you saying that there’s never a legitimate basis for people to engage in protests that destroy private property? I’d like to know your take on the Boston Tea Party?

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  13. an uprising that targets cvs stores and senior centers under construction, umkay,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  14. Patterico@9 and prowlerguy@10 – You’re right that I don’t know the facts, and I’m not (a) protesting, or (b) condoning those who are protesting violently. I’m just trying to understand another point of view, rather than simplistically condemning the riots as the illegitimate result of thugs using an excuse to commit crimes. (I have no doubt that there’s some of that going on.)
    By the way, if you want to talk about Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown, that’s fine – I never thought that those were particularly good cases to protest, for the reasons you mention. But if you can look at the numerous videos of police shooting unarmed people (often young black men) and say that there’s not a problem with police behavior, then I think that you’re more interested in advocating a position than understanding a problem.

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  15. Advocating violence is legit if you write for a dying website and desperately need attention.

    Steve57 (eb141b)

  16. Oh god. The Boston Tea Party analogy was yesterday’s dumb talking point, Jonny. Better check your email for today’s. There were about a dozen protesters at that gig and only crates of tea (which were directly related to the taxation) were destroyed–not the ships or the entire harbor.

    elissa (8106d3)

  17. elissa@16 – I honestly thought that I had come up with that analogy myself. Oh well.

    By the way, I’m not saying that there aren’t differences in the situations, but the point is that whether property destruction is justified can really be a matter of viewpoint, don’t you think?

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  18. baltimore has duckpin bowling

    a lot of people don’t know that about baltimore

    them lil pins are so cute

    happyfeet (831175)

  19. Johnny Scrum Half, how much of Boston did the tea partiers burn while protesting the tea tax?

    Steve57 (eb141b)

  20. Steve@19 – I hear and read many conservatives talk about the importance of the Second Amendment in allowing the populace to protect itself against government. Why isn’t there any sympathy for a segment of the population that’s now fighting back against what it feels are attacks by the police?

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  21. i was very impressed with how many government buildings the torched Mr. Scrum-half

    they did more to cut government in one night than Boehner done his whole career

    happyfeet (831175)

  22. *they* torched I mean

    happyfeet (831175)

  23. ==rather than simplistically condemning the riots as the illegitimate result of thugs using an excuse to commit crimes.==

    There is nothing “simplistic” about condemning riots whatever the perceived reason for them is. Condemning riots is what a civil society (like ours is supposed to be), uniformly does.

    elissa (8106d3)

  24. In the spirit and words of militant Black and Brown feminist movements from around the globe, I believe it is crucial…

    yup yup we should put this hooch in charge

    she’ll get things sorted

    happyfeet (831175)

  25. Johnny Scrum-half, by “point of view” do you mean like how the left thinks killing babies
    may or may not be ok depending? The Israelis are war criminals if they accidentally kill one
    but the vaiant Pali resistance are justified if the return to a house in Itamar to slit an infants
    throat because it cried and they realized they missed one of the sleeping family?

    Steve57 (eb141b)

  26. “Why isn’t there any sympathy for a segment of the population that’s now fighting back against what it feels are attacks by the police?”

    Jonny Scrum-half – I am very impressed by your thoughtful comments. Do you have a newsletter to which I can subscribe?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  27. Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5) — 4/29/2015 @ 8:51 am

    But here there can still be justice for the admitted and any future-proved misconduct.

    Maybe even repeal of the law that had the young man chased down in the first place.

    Taking away pretext for arrest would be a better outcome than raided and burned liquor stores.

    SarahW (6f3980)

  28. Protestor to store owner – You have 30 seconds to get your butt out of this store before I exercise my legitimate right to protest and burn this bitch down.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  29. Stealing toilet paper toothpaste and cosmetics from CVS and then torching it furthers the cause of “the segment of the population fighting back against what it feels are attacks by the police” how? And CVS doesn’t even sell cigarettes anymore!

    elissa (8106d3)

  30. My formatting is off because due to an all day ATT outage I can only access the Internet on
    my phone. And the text box runs under the right column. I have no way to resize it. I So if I don’t hit return I have no
    way to see what I am doing.

    Steve57 (eb141b)

  31. Johnny Scrum-half @20, LOL!

    Yes. Of couse. By defending the Second Amendment conservatives are really talking about
    looting liqour stores.

    Have you sought counseling? You should look into it.

    Steve57 (eb141b)

  32. Greetings:

    Growing up in the Bronx of the ’50s and ’60s, Dr. Sowell analysis was paraphrased as “When the going gets tough, the tough get going, and the smart are already gone.”

    Unfortunately, nobody teaches Bronx history anymore.

    11B40 (0f96be)

  33. We don’t care?
    We have quietly paid our taxes and sent $22 trillion of it to the ghetto in the past 50 years. We have passed civil rights legislation; we have enforced it in schools and clubs and job sites.
    We have changed media and entertainment portrayals of minorities to challenge stereotypes.

    We don’t care?

    Patricia (5fc097)

  34. I wonder if it hurts to be as stupid as Jonny Scrum-half?

    Asking for a friend.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  35. You obviously don’t care because… reparations, Patricia! Is that goal not what all this is really about?

    elissa (8106d3)

  36. Steve57@25 and 31 – You can advocate if you want, but I tend to think that things will improve when people understand why others are acting the way they are (even if those actions are counterproductive or violent). You mention the Israelis – would you consider the Irgun Zionists to be “thugs” because they destroyed the King David Hotel and committed other acts of violence against property and people? Were their actions in any way justified? If you find yourself looking for reasons to defend their actions but condemn those of the Baltimore rioters, maybe you should ask why you see a difference.

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  37. SarahW@27 – I agree completely with you. But others don’t, and still others haven’t thought it through. I’m not asking for us to approve what’s going on – I don’t – but rather suggesting that it’s not helpful when we have one group of people (generally conservative) who reflexively look to condemn rioters and try hard to defend police in these situations, and another group (generally liberal) who take the opposite view. Maybe we all should look for the humanity in everyone, including people with whom we disagree or whose actions we condemn.

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  38. Johnny Scrum-half,

    My opinion on that is basically the same as has been mentioned. The Boston Tea Party targeted material directly related to the issue at hand it’s importance has also been massively overstated in history. So, unless you are claiming that CVS and an assisted living facility were directly related to claims of police brutality the two incidents have nothing in common.

    As far as your Second Amendment comment, claiming that these rioters committing assault on unrelated people and arson on their homes and businesses is protected under the Second Amendment would be like claiming the recent thuggish activity by Wisconsin Democrats would justify my assaulting you. If you would like to give out your address we may be able to come to an agreement on that one…

    JNorth (5fe1bf)

  39. JNorth@38 – If you don’t mind, let’s assume that the rioters/protesters think that they have a legitimate grievance against the police. Would you prefer that they destroy the property of innocent people (which is illogical and unfair, as well as counter-productive because it hurts the people who live in the neighborhoods), or that they engage in armed combat with the police, leading to multiple deaths on both sides? The second choice is more logical, because it addresses the root of the problem, but perhaps it’s not really the better choice in response to the perceived provocation.

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  40. In most respects, Baltimore is a model progressive city. The police force is diverse. The school system has been staffed and capitalized to exceedingly high standards: $17,329 is spent per pupil; the student teacher ratio is 15.75 students per teacher, or 5,380 classroom teachers for 84,747 students; these teachers are supported by 5,175 other employees including administrators, librarians, guidance counselors, media specialists, instructional coordinators, and a range of support service providers; and the school district spent $1.45B in the 2010-2011 school year, which is a respectable amount even by DC standards. And it has Johns Hopkins University to provide intellectual and moral gravitas.

    And yet the students in the Baltimore City schools are largely uneducated. Only 13% of eighth graders meet the math standards, and this measure of achievement is only slightly improved by the 16% who can read at grade level. With such a limited mastery of fundamentals, it is doubtful, despite whatever graduation statistics the school district might gin up, that more than one in five high school graduates will be functional in today’s highly taxed and regulated world.

    Given this preparation, the rioters may be responding rationally to the opportunities they see around them. Like everyone, they have appetites and desires, but they will need several years of remedial education if they are to qualify for the simplest of jobs. The Mayor gave them a place to destroy things, and to their credit they did her one better, they looted most of the goods instead of burning them. Indeed, their looting list was well balanced. A photo of one looter showed him holding a six pack of paper towels in his left hand, and a plastic CVS bag full of smaller items in his right hand.

    Here in Washington State, the state legislature is battling fiercely to support our public schools in a similar fashion. Student-teacher ratios and spending levels are the battle cry. The goal is to approach the level of perfection now exhibited by Baltimore. And Seattle has implemented a minimum wage plan that will ensure any graduate who can hold a job at a fast food outlet $15/hour.

    Utopia beckons!

    bobathome (ef0d3a)

  41. look it’s one thing to laugh at Bouille, or Dyson, another is to take them seriously,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  42. “Would you prefer that they destroy the property of innocent people (which is illogical and unfair, as well as counter-productive because it hurts the people who live in the neighborhoods), or that they engage in armed combat with the police, leading to multiple deaths on both sides?”

    Jonny Scrum-half – Nice false choices. Almost like an Obama speech.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  43. ==“Would you prefer that they destroy the property of innocent people (which is illogical and unfair, as well as counter-productive because it hurts the people who live in the neighborhoods), or that they engage in armed combat with the police, leading to multiple deaths on both sides?”==

    Gee, Jonny, let me think about that for a second.
    …….OK I did.
    I prefer neither. Because neither gets remotely at what “they” allegedly say they need changed.

    elissa (8106d3)

  44. Jonny Scrum-half – Obama says Islamic terrorists have legitimate grievances. Are you comparing them to the protestors in Baltimore?

    Could you please define what you mean by “legitimate grievances?” Is that a legal term? An amorphous SJW term or an azzpull?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  45. elissa@44 – I prefer neither, too. I’ve already written that. But it seems that many people here want to argue that the rioters are counterproductive/stupid/evil/whatever. That’s fine, but let’s not lose site of the fact that the riots were sparked by something.

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  46. these riots are fraught with meaning

    happyfeet (831175)

  47. riots kill people, but they kill opportunities, they make the ethnic and racial divisions deeper, so in which way are they beneficial,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  48. they give you a timely head’s up that your pitiful little country’s swirling the drain

    happyfeet (831175)

  49. “That’s fine, but let’s not lose site of the fact that the riots were sparked by something.”

    Jonny Scrum-half – I thought you were claiming “legitimate grievances” as an excuse, whatever the heck that means. Still waiting for an explanation for why “legitimate grievances” excuse riot, public disorder, assault on police officers and destruction of property.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  50. Johnny Scrum-half, yes, the riots were sprarked by something. A massive sense of entitlement. The system on which they have grown dependant hasn’t provided them with the lifestyle they want. Their problems, they say (if you listen to them), is that the city hasn’t done enough for them. In his “this country must do some soul searching” speech Obama agreed with them. If the GOP wasn’t holding up his massive social spending agenda we wouldn’t have these problems.

    Thus justifying the rioting.

    The system has let them down. They want more of the system. Obama intends to give it to them. But the heavy police presence is part of the system. We are witnessing the behavior the system produces. They are burning and looting businesses and wonder why they don’t have economic opportunity. This sort of logic leads to a lot of police interactions. It is a statistical certainty some of those interactions will go south, sometimes in a big way. But if you think the answer to your problems is always more government you have to take the bad with the good.

    Steve57 (c84a13)

  51. It is amusing, Johnney Scrum-half, that you think these rioters demanding other people do more for them are kindred spirits with Second Amendment defenders and the Boston Tea Partiers.

    Steve57 (c84a13)

  52. “The system has let them down.”

    Steve57 – We are a nation of cowards. We need a national lecture on legitimate grievances.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  53. That’s fine, but let’s not lose site of the fact that the riots were sparked by something.

    I completely agree with that Johnny and I can tell you what that was… Something for nothing.

    It’s just that simple, those idiots saw a chance to get some stuff that they didn’t have to pay for and took that opportunity. It had nothing to do with their feelings of oppression, how Gray died or anything other more simple greed.

    labcatcher (61737c)

  54. There are hardly ANY white inner-city gang members in prison. Clearly this means the system hates blacks!

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  55. “That’s fine, but let’s not lose site of the fact that the riots were sparked by something.”

    labcatcher – I completely agree. I’ve got some legitimate grievances right here, but Baltimore is too far away to go on a shopping trip to stock up on some household goods.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  56. Hey, here’s an idea for better PR! Change the lingo! Yeah, that’s the ticket. Let’s call the riots something other than riots.

    Marc Lamont Hill, the far-left Morehouse College professor, intuited the difficulty with defending “riots” and tried to change the lingo. Preaching to CNN’s Don Lemon on Monday night, Hill said he is not calling events in Baltimore riots but “uprisings.”
    But the difference between those two should be prima facie obvious, particularly given how we tend to employ the latter term — for example, the “Soweto Uprising,” when some 20,000 South African students opposed the South African Apartheid government’s introduction of Afrikaans into schools; or the 1953 East Germany “People’s Uprising,” when hundreds of East Berlin construction workers went on strike and marched on the city’s Soviet-backed government, spurring nationwide protests that involved 1 million people; or the “Warsaw Ghetto Uprising,” when Jews trapped in Nazi-conquered Warsaw waged a three-week battle against their oppressors. The conduct of the mobs in Baltimore is not comparable in the slightest.

    elissa (8106d3)

  57. With an enrollment of nearly 90,000, the Baltimore school district is “graduating” about 4,600 kids onto the street every June. The hope is that most of these kids will end up doing something useful. With 80% or more having reading and math skills that are likely below 8th grade levels, one must wonder what sort of job they would be qualified for.

    The District’s fact sheet is somewhat opaque on the question of the abilities of their graduates. Their charts on route to graduation all add up to 100%. But the drop out rate is about 11% by the 12th grade, so those that “disappear” aren’t accounted for. Nor are another group of about 15% that do not graduate after five years. And the level of achievement is not clear. Only 48% pass the State proficiency test, but the District counts the 52% failing the test as achieving “Basic” levels of learning. Presumably they all graduate.

    About half the graduates do go on to college, but it’s not specified whether these are to remedial community college programs, or to programs that result in degrees of one sort or another.

    The district also suffers from flight to the suburbs. In Seattle this was coined “white flight”, but Baltimore makes clear this is not a racial phenomena. In grades pre-k-5, say 7 cohorts, each cohort averaged 6500 student (total for group is 45,585,) in grades 6-8, the cohorts decline to 5,400 students, and the number falls further to about 4,600 (4630 in 2013) graduating from high school.

    The progressive answer, of course, is to devote even more resources to the entity that fails these kids so completely. I wonder what Toya Graham would do if she received a voucher for $17,000 for each of her kids’ education every year?

    bobathome (ef0d3a)

  58. labcatcher and Steve57 – You can say that the riots were sparked by “entitlement” or an opportunity to get something for nothing, but the truth is that they didn’t occur until Freddie Gray turned up dead in police custody. How can you ignore that and be intellectually consistent?

    Steve57 – I’m waiting for your opinion about the actions of Irgun during the 1940s – legitimate tactic or thuggish terror? Or something in-between?

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  59. #39 is a false choice that even Obama would be proud to use.

    JD (edfce2)

  60. I am sure I’m not the only one who is perfectly willing to believe that the Baltimore police force is corrupt and not altogether trustworthy. As Kevin Williamson ably points out:

    Would any sentient adult American be shocked to learn that Baltimore has a corrupt and feckless police department enabled by a corrupt and feckless city government? I myself would not, and the local authorities’ dishonesty and stonewalling in the death of Freddie Gray is reminiscent of what we have seen in other cities. There’s a heap of evidence that the Baltimore police department is pretty bad. This did not come out of nowhere. While the progressives have been running the show in Baltimore, police commissioner Ed Norris was sent to prison on corruption charges (2004), two detectives were sentenced to 454 years in prison for dealing drugs (2005), an officer was dismissed after being videotaped verbally abusing a 14-year-old and then failing to file a report on his use of force against the same teenager (2011), an officer was been fired for sexually abusing a minor (2014), and the city paid a quarter-million-dollar settlement to a man police illegally arrested for the non-crime of recording them at work with his mobile phone. There’s a good deal more. Does that sound like a disciplined police organization to you?

    I think what most of us here do not understand or accept is how the destruction of private property and loss of inner city jobs from the destroyed businesses is somehow supposed to remedy that.

    elissa (8106d3)

  61. Who said I’m ignoring it, Jonny? It was the pretext. But it wasn’t the root cause. Don’t you ever listen to the rioters themselves? Or our wonder Preezy Root Cause Legitimate Grievance Mom Jeans McBombyPants?

    President Obama called on Americans “to do some soul searching” in the aftermath of the rioting that occurred in Baltimore on Monday. Obama offered a perfunctory condemnation of the rioters, but then, as the Washington Post reports, criticized “Americans, including the news media and some politicians, for failing to address the chronic problems of men, women and children who live in poverty and find their opportunities limited because of poor schools or long stints in prison” (emphasis added).

    For Obama, “soul-searching” means granting the government more money to throw at the inner city. Real soul-searching means understanding why the men, women and children who live in poverty have limited their own opportunities by dropping out of school, using drugs, and committing crime.

    The conditions of the inner city, with its run-down, violent neighborhoods, the lousy schools, the lack of jobs, aren’t the fault in any way of the people living there. You know, the ones wilding in the streets and the schools, burning and looting.

    Not, the “root cause” is always society. Specifically, our white supremacist society. We just don’t spend enough on the inner cities because of our raaaacism.

    But have you ever stopped to consider that if you tell people things are never their fault, there is always someone else to blame, their anger is justified, that this is what you get? And you also must have a heavy police presence?

    I’m sure every one of those rioters has had a run-in with the cops they resent. Just like in Ferguson. CNN interviewed one of the rock throwers, who felt he was finally giving something back to the cops for no other reason than because he was black. They were always messing with him.

    And oh by the way he had a few felony drug dealing convictions.

    But that’s society’s fault because of the racism.

    Really, he’s just like the Minutemen.

    And I think the Irgun were criminals.

    And, just to get ahead of you, I don’t automatically support the cops. If you check some of my comments on the Toni Morrison “I want to see the cops shoot a white unarmed teenager in the back” thread you’d see that.

    But what we’re seeing in Baltimore is the kind of thinking you produce with the liberal approach to problem solving. We saw the same thing in the London riots a few years back. That was sparked by something, too. The British government cut welfare benefits. Which created a “legitimate grievance” on the part of those living off of the taxpayer. So they went on a rampage to just take what they could no longer buy with the British version of the EBT card.

    Society owed them that. That’s what they were told all their lives.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  62. elissa@63 – I don’t know how many times I can say that I agree with the sentiment that the riots make things worse, not better. I’m not arguing in favor of violent protests, but trying to understand the reason for that behavior isn’t “condescension,” contrary to the original post’s statement.

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  63. ROOT CAUSES!!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  64. Baltimore coddies, not to be confused with codfish cakes, are hand-formed, slightly flattened potato cakes flavored with salt cod and other seasonings and then deep-fried. They are traditionally served at room temperature, sandwiched between two saltine crackers with a dollop of yellow mustard. Sometimes referred to as the poor man’s crab cake, this uniquely Baltimore food could be found at neighborhood soda fountains and delis all over town beginning in early 1920s.

    it was a jewish lady what invented it

    happyfeet (831175)

  65. Steve – halfsack is throwing poo at the wall. Do you hate blacks or Pali’s more? Your hatred of one is the only reason you could view the scenarios he described differently. His passive-aggressive nonsense is special.

    JD (3b5483)

  66. Marc Lamont Hill, the far-left Morehouse College professor, intuited the difficulty with defending “riots” and tried to change the lingo. Preaching to CNN’s Don Lemon on Monday night, Hill said he is not calling events in Baltimore riots but “uprisings.”

    That’s a time-honored tradition in the militant black community. There are still people like Rep. Maxine Waters who refer to the riots that came in the aftermath of the Rodney King verdict as “the LA Uprising.” It’s right out of the Marxist playbook.

    JVW (887036)

  67. Steve57@64 – You’ve got too many straw men for me to provide a response to all of them. Regarding “blaming society,” I think that it’s possible to acknowledge that the way a society is structured makes a difference while at the same time agreeing that bad people will use social unrest as an excuse to act in bad ways. I know that you would agree that a society’s structure makes a difference – for example, democracy is better than dictatorship, and capitalism is better than communism. Why can’t you agree that a country’s history of racism can contribute to an ongoing difficulty for a segment of the population even if that racism is no longer enforced by law? Or that the removal of good-paying but unskilled factory jobs in Northern cities just as anti-discrimination laws were taking effect makes a difference in social outcomes? Or that a police department’s culture of us-against-them and a refusal to root-out bad actors can result in resentment against the police? (Similarly with respect to the “War on Drugs,” which I’m hopeful you will agree has done little but result in many unnecessary incarcerations and gang-related deaths over the years.)

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  68. 68. …Do you hate blacks or Pali’s more?…

    JD (3b5483) — 4/29/2015 @ 12:37 pm

    Gosh, JD, I never really thought about it.

    I guess whichever of my chickens coming home to roost is the wolf closest to the sled.

    To mix my metaphors.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  69. Jonny–it was the thoughful black woman in Patterico’s sister’s video above who used the words “demeaning”, “condescending” “patronizing” and “racist” to discuss and expose this social justice issue. Did you even watch it?

    elissa (8106d3)

  70. Hey JD@68 – Does it ever occur to you that I’m actually writing what I believe, rather than “throwing poo”?

    By the way, Steve57 – Thanks for answering about the Irgun. I realize that they weren’t destroying their own neighborhood, but their violence worked out well for them. So maybe violence can sometimes be a successful tactic to get what a group wants.

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  71. elissa@72 – I didn’t. I don’t know why I should accept a black lady’s conclusion any more than Patterico’s.

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  72. Shorter Jonny Scrum-half @70. The conditions of the inner-city are never any fault of the people who live there. Society is to blame.

    Thanks, Jonny. That’s exactly how I’ve been describing the wrong-headed liberal mindset.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  73. 78. …Thanks for answering about the Irgun. I realize that they weren’t destroying their own neighborhood, but their violence worked out well for them. So maybe violence can sometimes be a successful tactic to get what a group wants.
    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5) — 4/29/2015 @ 12:47 pm

    You can’t be serious. You actually think the Jewish state exists because of the Irgun?

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  74. What does our country’s “history of racism” have to do with burning down a CVS or a retirement home? How have leftist politicos, policies, and affiliated allies improved the lives of the residents that are rioting?

    JD (3b5483)

  75. elissa@72 – But let me add something, to be fair. I understand the argument that it’s “condescending” to make excuses for bad behavior. My point is that each “side” seems to see only a particular point of view. For example, if a police officer shoots an unarmed kid, many conservatives argue that cops have a difficult job, they’re placing their lives in danger with every interaction with the public, they deal with the worst segment of society which could cause them to develop particular attitudes, etc. Why isn’t that considered “condescending” to professionals who are privileged with a government monopoly on legal use of deadly force, who chose that particular job, and who should be trained not to overreact to the threats that they face? Why isn’t there an outcry about police who look the other way when their co-workers beat-up a suspect who’s already in custody? Why don’t we demand more from our law enforcement professional?

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  76. @75-77 – You guys are deliberately mis-reading what I wrote.

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  77. black lives matter Mr. Scrum-half

    do i have to draw you a picture

    ok this is the CVS where Mr. Tatertots gets his heart medicine – it’s super handy for him cause he can’t drive so he’s very happy that it’s close by (that’s why he’s smiling and has balloons)

    ok this is a dog

    this is a lady running into the CVS just for to get some cigarettes (boy is she gonna be disappointed)

    ok this is one of those new teslas we don’t know why it’s here but it looks cool

    ok and here is Barack Obama on the corner he’s organizing the community and when he gets thirsty he’ll go into the cvs for a value-priced product from the Arizona Beverage Company

    happyfeet (831175)

  78. ==I didn’t. I don’t know why I should accept a black lady’s conclusion any more than Patterico’s.==

    Well, with all due respect had you watched it you might finally understand that the word “condescension” they both refer to addresses something rather different than who and what you seem to be assuming it does. Why don’t you do us all a favor and at least view the video? The fingers in ears, “lalala I can’t hear you” does not serve you well.

    elissa (8106d3)


    Why are we shocked when a certain portion of our population begins to think that they are allowed to behave in any manner they wish, with no repercussions at all? Why are we shocked when resisting arrest becomes a “right” and any force used to effect the arrest is a “hate crime”?

    Just a word of warning to all the SJWs out there like Jonny here: Once the police are effectively neutralized, and law-abiding citizens can no longer reasonably expect any law enforcement on their behalf, the day of reckoning will arrive. When 8% of the population (with no capital, limited political power, and no education) meets up with the sizable portion of the 92% that have no problem protecting their families, have the means to do so, and the education to do so effectively; then things will not end well for the 8%. And all those hipster protesters that bolster the numbers of “protesters” will be useless to the “oppressed” because they are pussies.

    prowlerguy (3af7ff)

  80. There was a link on the other thread.
    There is info percolating out there that says Gray had a pre-existing spinal fracture and had recently had surgery and should have been at home in bed when he was arrested.
    IDK, we have to see what shakes out.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  81. Why don’t we demand more from our law enforcement professional?

    You know, in conservative sections of the country, we DO demand more from law enforcement. You’ll note that Baltimore, St. Louis/Ferguson, LA, and NYC have been effectively ruled by the liberal political establishment for decades. So maybe the question should be, why don’t liberals and blacks hold their powerful unionized police forces accountable?

    prowlerguy (3af7ff)

  82. Does it ever occur to you that I’m actually writing what I believe, rather than “throwing poo”?

    Doesn’t matter whether you believe it or not, it still is poo. Anyone who “believes” that the Irgun’s terrorism (among others’) led to the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 can not be taken seriously.

    prowlerguy (3af7ff)


    Ferguson residents frustrated over lack of opportunity

    A couple of choice quotes:

    To be honest, if they don’t come and restore these neighborhoods for these people, like when you gotta go travel miles to Walmart and to get gas and stuff like that, it should be right here. If they don’t restore this community for people who stay here it’s gonna be hell to pay…

    By “they” these guys mean city officials. Like the Baltimore rioters who think the city officials don’t do enough for them, these guys think government builds the businesses they and/or their neighbors just destroyed. And it’ll be “hell to pay” if the city doesn’t rebuild them.

    Yeah, that’s why people looting, because they can’t get no jobs.

    I guess I’m just weird but I suspect this kind of entitlement thinking, and the resultant violent behavior, has more to do with the lack of opportunity in these areas than our country’s vaunted “history of racism (TM).”

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  84. Gee, I’d open a restaurant in Ferguson or Baltimore after watching them torch and loot all those other places. And then hire these guys. If they think burning businesses to the ground is the way to get jobs, I wonder what they think the best way to get big tips out of my customers would be.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  85. Jonny Scrum-half – What about the Crusades?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  86. NO JUSTICE NO PEACE! It is the only think you white racists understand. I know just because you are wearing a white sheet and burning a cross that doesn’t make you a racist! Every time the police kill an unarmed black human being BURN BABY BURN!

    no justice no peace (a4242a)

  87. MD in Philly he may have had a pre-existing spinal issue. I do not think that excuses or explains his death. Here is one of the more complete reports about the day he was arrested and the investigation so far that I’ve seen.

    elissa (8106d3)

  88. Perry is *so* original, no?


    you loot, i shoot (4db2c8)

  89. elissa@81 – on your recommendation I watched the video. It’s hard to argue with anything she says. Again, I’m not excusing the rioters. I’m asking the commenters here to consider that perhaps sometimes they are more interested in making an argument rather than truly trying to understand an issue.

    prowlerguy@82 – I hope that you realize that your description of a segment of society that can behave any way it wishes can be applied to the police. But I agree with you that the powerful in society are going to prevail if push comes to shove.

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  90. Anyway, I have to go throw a rock through my neighbor’s window because I’m jealous of his new in-ground pool. Thanks for the discussion.

    Jonny Scrum-half (20a2b5)

  91. meanwhile, the Village Voice, of all sources, points out that racist laws are to blame for the stop that resulted in Freddie Gray’s arrest & subsequent death.

    (safe link, not to the VV)

    redc1c4 (4db2c8)

  92. Every time a black man kills an unarmed white person we should burn down the ghetto! Burn you butches, burn!

    12,000,000 non-minority voters (58a3ec)


    While the city burns, liberals place blame everywhere but where it belongs: on criminality and on family breakdown.

    …What happened last evening in Baltimore was simply a larger and better-covered version of the flash mobs that have beset American cities for the last half-decade, in which black youths gather via social media to steal from stores and assault whites…

    …Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, and Washington D.C., among other cities, have all grappled with similar violence. None of it deserves a righteous political gloss. Nor does the violence last night, which began with an invitation sent out over social media to convene at a local mall and “purge” it.

    Perhaps if the media had not shrunk from reporting on the flash mob phenomenon and the related “knockout game”—in which teenagers tried to knock out unsuspecting bystanders with a single sucker punch—we might have made a modicum of progress in addressing or at least acknowledging the real cause of black violence: the breakdown of the family…

    Liberals can never blame their own policies for the inevitable results. And liberals can never blame their loyal constituencies for their criminality, which is a secondary effect of those policies.

    So they blame “society.” Hint, hint, white racism.

    So the rioters and looters gleefully pillage and burn Baltimore and Ferguson, knowing full well they’ll never be blamed.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  94. 83 – MD in Philly. Assuming that to be the case (pre-existing condition), police not only erred, they murdered him with negligence. Eggshell skull rule in play, if cops did something wrong – and they did, either through massive ignorance or callous disregard of his condition.

    The video of him being lifted to his feet, and dragged to the van and tossed in (unsecured) is enough for me because the video it shows classic signs of spinal injury.

    The only proper course of action once he had been subdued was to summon EMS and do everything possible to support his spine and limit movement.

    SarahW (6f3980)

  95. All I know is the economy has slowed to a crawl, a leading candidated for president is a pathological liar and thief, the currant a-hole in the White House is a psycologically unfit narcissist and now the blacks are burning down the inner cities which have been run by leftist democrats-usually black temselves- for 60 years. Why are the blacks so pissed off at the republicans when its their democrat friends on the left who have createed their living conditions? They should be burning down Brentwood, Hyde Park, Georgetown and Manhattan!

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  96. So the rioters and looters gleefully pillage and burn Baltimore and Ferguson, knowing full well they’ll never be blamed.

    They shouldn’t be blamed Steve57, the leftist democrats should be blamed, it’s their policies. The looters, rioters, arsonists and thieves should be shot.

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  97. I am not saying that there was no wrong doing, but inappropriately handling a person with a spinal cord injury, who should have been home in bed, is different from inflicting a fatal blow to a healthy person.
    I am afraid after Treyvon Martin and Ferguson I have “boy who cried wolf” syndrome and care little what the Baltimore paper says, except that even they say the incident began with Gray running from the police, I would suggest that once a suspect runs, they have given evidence of “reasonable” health.

    So, awaiting further info.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  98. 97. …The only proper course of action once he had been subdued was to summon EMS and do everything possible to support his spine and limit movement.

    SarahW (6f3980) — 4/29/2015 @ 1:51 pm

    They did, Sarah. Not immediately, but once it became apparent to them Gray was badly injured.

    …According to the police timeline, he was conscious and speaking when he was loaded into a van to be taken to the district station. Medics were called to the station, and he was taken to an area hospital, police said…

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  99. Baltimore has been Democrat-governed since 1967… police dept., public employee unions, city councils… all of it under Democrat control. Decades in the making, THEY own this.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  100. I read the police timeline. At one point during the trip to the station the driver of the van called for back up because Gray was acting violently. They put him in leg shackles. So it sounds like Gray was kicking at the sides of the van or the barrier between the prisoner’s compartment and the driver.

    I don’t see how they would have realized he had an serious spinal injury if Gray was engaging in sufficient physical activity to warrant leg restraints.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  101. IF Gray’s injury was not due to anything unusual that the police did, but from a previous severe injury (which should have caused him to be home with limited activity), they would have had little reason to suspect that he was in grave peril, after all, he had just tried to outrun them.

    It’s tragic, and maybe the police are blame worthy for a number of things,
    but at the moment it does not look like they arrested a healthy person and beat him to a slow death by a spinal cord fracture, which is my main point.

    If one was doing triage in the ER and somebody walked in complaining of neck pain there would be little reason to put the person immediately in an immobilizing collar.
    (I actually in residency had a patient walk in for a scheduled appointment with classic history and findings of Brown-Sequard, from an osteophyte pushing on her spinal cord.)

    MD in Philly (f9371b)


    Relevant portions:

    8:40 a.m.: A police officer was heard telling dispatch that officers had one person at 1700 Presbury Street, two blocks south of North and Mount, police said.

    8:42 a.m.: A “wagon,” or van, was requested for transport, according to Baltimore police, and that Gray asked for an inhaler.

    8:46 a.m.: The driver of the van believes Gray is acting “irate,” police say. An officer asks the van to stop so the paperwork can be completed, according to Baltimore police. At this point, Gray is taken out of the vehicle, placed in leg irons and then put back in the van, police said.

    8:54 a.m.: The vehicle cleared Mount Street, heading toward central booking, police said.

    8:59 a.m.: A request was made by the driver of the van for an additional “unit” to check on Gray, police say. There was some undisclosed communication with Gray at this point.

    9:23 a.m.: Emergency medical services directed a technician to respond for an injured patient, as heard on a recording of the call that was publicly released.

    9:24 a.m.: Police officers requested paramedics to the Western District to transport the man to an area hospital. In a subsequent charging document, police said, “During transport to Western District via wagon transport the Defendant suffered a medical emergency and was immediately transported to Shock Trauma.”

    They may have been slow on the uptake, but they didn’t ignore Gray when they realized he was injured.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  103. Breaking news!

    In bold resistance to Marc Lamont Hill’s efforts, Pussy Riot adamantly refuses to change their name to Pussy Uprising.

    elissa (8106d3)

  104. In other news, Quiet Riot did change their name to Quiet Uprising, but nobody cared.

    Gazzer (c1d25a)

  105. MD in Philly, he showed signs if signal cord injury on the scene. He was not able to stand unassisted.

    SarahW (6f3980)

  106. Spinal. Auro correct.

    SarahW (6f3980)

  107. He’d needed EMS at the scene.

    SarahW (6f3980)

  108. Sara @97, 108 – Perhaps you need to actually view the video, not just depend on SJW descriptions, because the whole “thrown in the van, couldn’t stand unassisted” is looking a lot like “Hands up, don’t shoot”.

    Here’s the video:

    At 2:23, he can clearly be seen standing on his own two feet on the top steps of the van, his head and shoulders above the heads of the officers, only one of whom is steadying him, before crouching down and stepping into the van. No throwing, and certainly able to stand on his own. The fact he played limp-doll in order to make things more difficult for the officers does not change the fact that he was not, in fact, paralyzed at the time of his arrest. Also, he is clearly talking to the officers, calling into question another part of the narrative that says his voice box was crushed.

    prowlerguy (3af7ff)

  109. Jonny @92 – No, it does not apply to police officers. When a mob of police set fire to a housing project, after stealing every possession of all the residents, cuts the fire hoses of responding firemen, and attack anyone who flees the inferno and get away scot free, THEN you may have a point. Until then, not so much.

    And it isn’t about the powerful crushing the poor oppressed, it about an entitled minority foolishly thinking their free pass will last forever and failing to grasp that the presence of the police is the ONLY thing that is preventing their slaughter. Once there is no rule of law (the aim of progressives and liberals), then the majority, which have resisted retaliation because they respected the law, will be morally unleashed to protect their lives, family and property by whatever means they see fit. You don’t piss into the wind and expect to stay dry.

    prowlerguy (3af7ff)

  110. “He was not able to stand unassisted.”

    So, he did not run from the police?
    Or, he ran from police and when they caught him they delivered the blow that broke his spinal cord?
    If they delivered a blow that broke his spinal cord, I’m assuming there is evidence of blunt trauma on the autopsy.

    If he ran, and then complained of not being able to use his legs, my 1st through 3rd guesses are that he is giving me a hard time and playing limp to be uncooperative.

    Not standing unassisted and not being able to stand unassisted are two different things.
    If he indeed ran from the police, and if they did not strike him or handle him in away that would have been expected to cause severe bodily harm, then I see little reason for them to believe he had a real problem initially.

    In the video linked at 111 it does appear he is supporting his own weight at 2:23 as noted.

    I’ve seen lots of footage of people going limp while being arrested, if he had just been running from the officers, why should they believe that all of a sudden he can’t walk?

    Do I hear someone in the background complaining that they used a tazer?

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  111. we have seen some video, some leaked documents, enough to raise suspicion about the narrative,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  112. I’m interested in what happened at 8:46 when he was “acting irate” and put in leg irons.
    Was he having uncontrolled reflex activity from his injury, or was it this thrashing around that caused the injury. If he couldn’t use his legs, why did they “need” to put him in leg irons.
    I wonder what a tox screen showed initially if one was done.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  113. I don’t know if you saw it, but Dana updated the “Compelling Love” thread with some additional info concerning the rumors of an alleged spine injury prior to the police altercation. The Baltimore Sun say they’ve delved into court records and found nothing about a spine injury for young Mr. Gray. They did uncover an old settlement for lead paint contamination that may have affected the emotional development of him and his sister as children.

    elissa (036f87)

  114. Here’s a tip. The only people who read Salon are the few who are trying to type Slate and hit enter too quickly in Google. Or maybe visa versa. Regardless, both of them are confused, lazy and distracted because one life partner just asked if wearing yoga pants were improper to attend a protest supporting #blacklivesmatter or if ironic nerd glasses would be better to support the demonstrators of the Koch brothers subverting democracy.

    It’s simple, and gender neutral, if you think about it.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  115. Who is Benji Hart?

    Now, it is fine for Salon to host a wide variety of voices, and in the process of that, radicalism will be spotted. But they don’t even give a one-line bio identifying the guy as an activist. So the assumption might be he is on staff.

    Just goes to show you why reading Salon is worse than a waste of time. There is a real risk it might actually destroy cognitive brain cells.

    Speaking of brain damage, isn’t it about time for Joan Walsh to make a fool of herself again? The time goes by so fast . . .

    Estragon (ada867)

  116. Has it not occurred to MOST of you, that OBAMA and MARXIST FUKTARDS have made this country a mess?

    Gus (7cc192)

  117. Why, no. Gus it never really crossed our minds.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  118. I’ll just say my main point is I don’t know what to believe when I hear what witnesses reportedly said. Forensic evidence and sworn testimony away from the emotions of the scene have been quite helpful.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  119. if the true blue protect and serve baltimore popothugs can trot out some criminal what exonerates them then surely this is all just a big misunderstanding

    happyfeet (831175)

  120. SarahW@108

    His not walking to the van and making the officers drag him is typical and common passive resistance. It would be surprising if he got up and walked to the van after a long foot pursuit. Having to drag him like they did is neither uncommon or indicative of anything other than the guy is not going to cooperate.

    labcatcher (61737c)

  121. Salon: Smashing Police Cars Is Legitimate

    File this under “just another expression of justifiable outrage over legitimate grievances.”

    Baltimore Protesters Tried To Light This Pizza Shop Owner on Fire

    As the shop owner points out, these rioters, looters, pillagers, and arsonists aren’t doing this because of Freddie Gray. They’re doing this for fun. They’re entitled. They won’t be blamed.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  122. All the teens were black, according to witnesses, and all but one of the people attacked were white. Still, it’s unclear if the attacks were racially motivated or sparked by the unrest in Baltimore, which followed the recent shooting death of Walter Scott, a black man, by a white North Charleston police officer.

    Really Post & Courier, really? 60 roving black teens and all but one of the persons assaulted is white but “it’s unclesar” if the attacks were racially motivated. That’s as rediculous as saying leftists sincerely want to help the poor and minorities. Has everyone in this country had their tounge ripped out by political correct propaganda? Call a spade a spade for heavens sake. Somebody say the truth we all see. The blacks under the Hussein Obama are out of control and have adopted a course of eternal victimhood. And the (mostly black )leftists in charge of our cities are not only allowing them but instegateing them.

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  123. Hoagie, does it surprise you? A Muslim can shoot up Fort Hood or take an axe to a cop or try to drive over people yelling “Allahu Akhbar” and the LHMFM and the police will say, “We just can’t figure out a motive here.”

    Inexplicable random violence committed by somebody who could have belonged to any religion against random folks.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  124. You got it Steve57. Yet a white cop shoots a black dude and it’s obviously a raced based hate crime!!!! Just ask idiots like Perry. Or his dumbass “beer summit” hero.

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  125. If a white guy shoots a black guy it’s the crime of the century. Yet every day dozens of blacks murder, rape and maim oter blacks and not a peep can be heard by the black (and white) talking heads. Seems #blacklivesmatter but ony if taken by whites. They lie.

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  126. Blast from the past:

    While awaiting trial, the gang’s leader fathered five children by four guards.

    On January 5, 2013, Tavon White, an inmate at the Baltimore City Detention Center, had a cell-phone conversation that was intercepted on an F.B.I. wiretap. “This is my jail, you understand that,” White told an unidentified friend. “I’m dead serious. I make every final call in this jail. . . . Everything come to me. Before a motherfucker hit a nigga in the mouth, guess what they do—they gotta run it through me. I tell them whether it’s a go ahead and they can do it or whether they hold back. Before a motherfucker stab somebody, they gotta run it through me.” White was a leader of a gang called the Black Guerrilla Family. The gang had such control over inmates in the facility that, as White put it in another phone call, “I got elevated to the seat where as though nobody in the jail could outrank me. . . . Like, I am the law. . . . So if I told any motherfucking body they had to do this, hit a police, do this, kill a motherfucker, anything, it got to be done. Period.”…

    See, I’m under the impression that these riots have more to do with the fact that the entitled inmates have been running the asylum in Baltimore (but not just there) for far too long than any real anger over Freddie Gray’s death.

    The mayor is like one of those female guards.

    Steve57 (818fa4)


    See what I mean.

    The reaction from authorities and activists to the violence exploding from protests in Baltimore appears to be a start of a pattern.

    Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings Blake “thanked the Nation of Islam” Saturday, “who have been very present in our efforts to keep calm and peace in our city.”…

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  128. The “See what I mean” statement would have made sense if my comment just prior hadn’t gone into moderation. I quoted the first paragraph from a New Yorker article last year. It was a cell phone call from inside the Baltimore city jail (!!!) from the leader of the Black Guerrilla Family bragging about how he ran the place. Not the cops. In fact hee fathered four children with female guards while awaiting trial.

    Naturally there was considerable profanity, and I made no attempt to clean it up as it was in the article.

    My point was that these riots have more to do with the inmates running the asylum than any real anger over Freddie Gray.

    Here’s the link again.

    So, Pat or whoever is moderating, if you like just delete that earlier comment.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  129. 911-calls-show-terror-caused-by-mob-rampage-in-charleston

    I noticed the following in that article:

    The motto of the YWCA is “Empowering Women and Eliminating Racism.”

    I saw the same thing — or what’s sort of a mission statement — attached to the logo of a local YWCA last year and thought (and was hoping) it perhaps was just a regional, blue-blue-state type of thing. But liberalism is spreading its corrosive tentacles to every facet of society, and now the YWCA (ie, “Young Women’s Christian Association”) might just as well be the ACLU, NOW or Act Up.

    As for the police in Charleston saying repeatedly — sounding like they were insisting until they were blue in the face — that they didn’t know whether a band of roving black teens causing trouble for mostly whites calling 911 in a panic was necessarily racially motivated or not? That came off like such a bad parody, I actually found myself double checking to see whether the was not actually a website like The Onion.

    Mark (607f93)

  130. I think the dude in Baltimore was looking for a civil lawsuit payday (like many others too) and got a little too carried away.

    Rodney King's Spirit (b31520)

  131. Yet every day dozens of blacks murder, rape and maim oter blacks and not a peep can be heard by the black (and white) talking heads.

    A similarly contemptible contradiction is evident in the way a good cross section of the left shrugs off Islamism in spite of its very reactionary, ruthless, if not bloody, characteristics.

    I could sort of deal with this if liberals at least didn’t buy into the idea that their ideology springs forth from loving, caring, compassionate, humane, generous instincts.

    Mark (607f93)

  132. @127 I relayed the fact that the rioters tried to burn the pizza shop owner alive. This explains why.

    These riots were not sparked by Freddie Gray’s death. These thugs are just exploiting it show the city who’s boss. Knowing full well the press and people like Jonny Scrum-half will fly topcover for them.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  133. Mark, you have to understand how a leftist (if you can call it thinking) thinks. Islam is the enemy of Christianity, Judaism, capitalism and freedom so Islam is the natural bedfellow for leftists who themselves loathe all those things. See, when one understands the goal of the game one can discern the players.

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  134. Actually the affinity the liberal fascists have for the Islamists goes beyond their shared hatred of Western civilization.

    They’re attracted to it precisely because it’s ruthless and blood thirsty. Think of the “revolutionary terror” Lenin unleashed on the Russian people. Think of the NORK total control camps. Think of the Cambodian killing fields.

    This is why the left lies for the Islamists. It’s the same reason the lie for every brutal communist regime that ever existed.

    They admire them for their brutality.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  135. Not everyone who wears a Che T-shirt is ignorant of who the man really was.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  136. It’s good to see, elissa, that most Americans aren’t buying the “righteous anger” lipstick and mascara that the left is applying to this pig.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  137. The law of averages says that not everyone who told Rasmussen they think the Baltimore “protesters” are thugs and criminals are Republicans. This is important. Law and order will be a legitimate issue in the next election.

    elissa (d67c07)

  138. #144 which is why more rioting all the way thru the Fall of 2016 is good for the Right.

    Onwards with the Left burning down their towns I say.

    Rodney King's Spirit (b31520)

  139. I would hope so, elissa. But one thing I think needs to be pointed out. And this isn’t paranoia on my part given the links between Obama and Rawlings-Blake, Obama and Sharpton, Sharpton and Farrakhan, and the Nation of Islam and black street gangs (Farrakhan calls them “natural soldiers” who can be taught “the science of war.”)

    I suspect what’s going on is a domestic version of Fast & Furious. Just as Obama’s ATFE ran guns into Mexico to spread mayhem, then demagogue for gun control, this widespread and spreading mayhem is organized.

    For instance, based upon social media we can see the same Ferguson organizers are behind the Baltimore riots. We know (@101) that the first news reports about Freddie Gray’s death came out on the day he died. Yet the riots started on the 27th.

    If this is spontaneous anger, there wouldn’t have been a week’s delay.

    I’m not saying Obama is behind it. But then like Stephanie “space to destroy” Rawlings-Blake he’s not opposed to it. It’s a manufactured crisis he finds useful to advance the fundamental transformation of the US.

    He’s not one to let a crisis go to waste.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  140. I don’t know if anyone has pointed it out, but when the idjit mayor gave her “space to destroy” press conference the guy second to her left in the suit and tie is Carlos Muhammad.

    Any guesses who he’s with?

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  141. The Jekyll?

    bobathome (ef0d3a)

  142. That’s a different Carlos, bobathome! (but I love the humor)

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  143. 125 labcatcher – exept that’s not what’s going on. The video did not show passive resistance, it showed loss of function. My theory is that is that injury to the spinal cord was progressive but the main injury took place at the scene.
    He should have been immobilized and transferred by EMS, because an unstabilized injured neck can lead to sudden dramatic worsening of a condition (as in hangman’s fracture) or new injury – injury that wouldn’t happen to a normal, stable neck or spine.

    He was running and then, after his fall or a knee to the neck, or whatever. I just start out assuming his injury was the result of accident because its the rest that in inexcusable. I don’t know what effort was required to subdue him or if he fell or there was a collision with the bike officers. BUT HE COULD NOT stand normally. COULD NOT. That was not passive resistance.

    I don’t think he had any asthma attack when he asked for his inhaler. He was losing chest//lung function from the spinal injury.


    His not walking to the van and making the officers drag him is typical and common passive resistance. It would be surprising if he got up and walked to the van after a long foot pursuit. Having to drag him like they did is neither uncommon or indicative of anything other than the guy is not going to cooperate.
    labcatcher (61737c) — 4/30/2015 @ 6:32 am

    SarahW (6f3980)

  144. Except they are saying his neck injury matches a bolt in the van.

    Gazzer (c1d25a)

  145. I frankly don’t give a rats butt how he died. At this point what difference does it make? (my thanks to Hillary! for the compassionate suggestion).

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  146. Gazzer, I’m open to the idea that the police may have used excessive force on the guy that caused or contributed to Freddie Gray’s injury. Which resulted in death. But I am firmly convinced that’s an entirely separate issue from the non-spontaneous riots that followed.

    A thought did occur to to me based upon the presence of Carlos Muhammad at the mayor’s press conference. When she told the cops to let the rioters loot as it was just property, she must have already known that the Nation of Islam and the gangs would be providing security for black-owned property.

    It’s the only thing that makes sense. Her later attempts to “clarify” her “We gave them space to destroy” statement makes zero sense in any other light. Because otherwise, if her later attempt to say she didn’t deliberately give them space to destroy was sincere, she would have done something as soon as the riots turned violent.

    But she didn’t. She literally did give the rioters space to destroy. Both in terms of geography, the Chinese and Arab shops, and in terms of time with her stand-down order.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  147. I concur Steve. I am still not convinced either way as to the culpability of the popo. I certainly believe they are capable of excessive force although the vid does not seem to show that. My gut, as others have said, is that this will be another bogus “hands up, don’t shoot” scenario. Too late as the intended damage has already been done.

    Gazzer (c1d25a)

  148. Further evidence that the scenario I described @147 is not paranoia on my part.

    Stephanie “space to destroy” Rawlings-Blake has been in regular contact with Uber President Rasputin Jarrett.

    And who is keeping the press from interviewing Rawlings-Blake? Why none other than Prom Queen’s go-to guy on all matters race and police, Al Sharpton.

    It appears the WH is as involved as I suspected, but could never prove without a smoking gun. Which no doubt is in email on a private server under an alias.

    Clearly, someone above the Mayor decided she wasn’t handling the LHMFM as well as could be desired, so they sent reinforcements.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  149. SarahW @151 – So you’re doubling down? You made the claim that the officers took the poor drug dealer and “tossed [him] in” the van. That was clearly untrue, based on video evidence provided by CNN and visible to all. Why no admission that you were wrong?

    You now claim that the fact he went limp and refused to assist the officers is some sort of proof of injury. So please explain, in your expert medical opinion, what sort of spinal injury is so profound as to prevent the use of one’s legs, only moments later to see those same legs work perfectly to stand unassisted, turn and yell to bystanders, then bend at the waist and step into the van? If his symptoms had gotten progressively worse, I could see how a reasonable person might believe that. But I’ll be damned if I believe that a single spinal injury could go from total paralysis, to full functioning legs and torso (remember, he was also able to move so much that the officers felt the need to stop and place him in leg restraints), to fatal. Unless of course, your astounding medical knowledge can provide some clinical support, I’m afraid that your expert diagnosis is suspect.

    prowlerguy (3af7ff)

  150. Gee, I missed this whole ALL CAPS declaration from SarahW:

    BUT HE COULD NOT stand normally.

    But he COULD because he DID, and sadly for you, the cameras captured it. He stood without being lifted, supported his own weight fully, turned his torso, bent the waist, and stepped into the van. NONE of which would be possible if his injury was as grave as you claim. Period. You need to admit you are wrong, apologize, and move on.

    prowlerguy (3af7ff)

  151. Not to pile on, but I’m curious, Sarah. How do you tell the difference between “could not” and “would not” anyway?

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  152. SarahW His leg dragging passive resistance looked to me like the unknown (but a lot) number of suspects leg dragging I have seen in the past. His standing on the bumper kind of made me think that his spinal cord was intact.
    I am curious how you diagnosed a spinal injury from the video. I just had my 4th back surgery because my legs were giving out and it took 4 MRI’s to for the neurosurgeon to locate the problem area (it was not the scar tissue impinging on nerves as first thought). You are good.

    labcatcher (61737c)

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