Patterico's Pontifications

4/10/2015

Jonah Goldberg: Tsarnaev Deserves the Death Penalty, and So Might Michael Slager

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:32 pm



Goldberg’s argument for the death penalty for the South Carolina cop is fatuous. Seriously: I’m embarrassed for him.

As for Tsarnaev, I agree with Elizabeth Warren: he deserves to die in prison. Only in my version, he does so in the next five years max, with a needle in his arm. I’m not sure if that’s what Liz had in mind.

33 Responses to “Jonah Goldberg: Tsarnaev Deserves the Death Penalty, and So Might Michael Slager”

  1. Ding.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  2. Oh, you want comments? It took me all of 30 seconds to find South Carolina’s murder statute. http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c003.php Mr. Goldberg makes his living with the internet — he could have found it faster. His arguments are not only fatuous, they are not part of South Carolina law. I suppose an ambitious prosecutor could make a colorable claim that the four shots before the fatal one constituted physical torture. Colorable enough to keep him from being disciplined, maybe even get him in instruction. How dumb are South Carolina juries?

    nk (dbc370)

  3. I heard Warren this morning on CNN. Her basic attitude seemed to be”I am opposed to the death penalty in principle, and I am therefore opposed to it here, especially because I think life w/o parole is actually worse. But I totally understand why people think he should get death.”

    kishnevi (9c4b9c)

  4. ”I am opposed to the death penalty in principle, and I am therefore opposed to it here, especially because I think life w/o parole is actually worse. But I totally understand why people think he should get death.”

    Spoken like a true liberal, who has never encountered an unrepentant murderer.

    I have. Give life to someone who deserved death, and it’s just another notch in their belt. “I beat the death penalty.” Just another thing they “beat.”

    Patterico (9c670f)

  5. The criminals don’t think life without parole is worse.

    Want to know how I know that?

    Try telling a murderer that you are willing to forego a sentence of life without parole if he will agree to death.

    You might find 1 in 10,000 who would agree. If I’m right, that means 1 in 10,000 thinks Liz Warren is right.

    Who knows better what is worse for the murderer? The murderer, or Liz Warren?

    Oh, sorry, right: I forgot. The elites always know what is better and worse for everyone else.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  6. Goldberg’s argument for the death penalty

    That makes me think of a flip-side scenario where Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson strongly condemns and organizes protests against the murder by felons (who are black) of people of Asian ancestry who own and run inner-city liquor stores. Except that at least would be less morally topsy-turvy (or not morally repugnant in the least) than what Goldberg espouses, meaning I’m not sure if that therefore places Goldberg in more of a bizarro world or less of a bizarro world.

    Mark (4bad5a)

  7. Ah yes, the NAUGHTY WHITE COPS, the BLACK LIVES MATTER unless the BLACK LIFE IS SNUFFED BY another BLACK “meme” has taken root!!! Goldberg knee jerks right into the “politically correct….I recognized WHITE COP hate before you did” position. The balkanization of America based on Color, ethnicity, SEXUAL PREFERENCES, religion and relative wealth is sickening.

    Gus (7cc192)

  8. This Elizabeth Warren lady sounds like she might be suffering from depression. Claustrophobia too.

    nk (dbc370)

  9. If we let him live he cannot be celebrated as a great Shahid by Muslims. Letting him rot on death row and die a natural death there is ideal. And we should build more special prisons for other would be shahids so they get to rot to death rather than become celebrated and go directly to paradise and his 72 virgin gay donkeys.

    {^_^}

    JDow (770dee)

  10. I like the death penalty. Just wish it would take effect with in 5 years or less.
    I mean we don’t want all them teachers having their students writing get well letters and all.

    MSL (5f601f)

  11. My only problem with the death penalty here is that lethal injection is far too clinical. The death penalty should involve something fairly unpleasant like hanging or shooting, and it should be public in some way.

    But as long as the crime is heinous and the jury is SURE, I have no problem with it.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  12. Patterico,

    I’m not completely sure a life of isolation and stimulus deprivation in a Supermax isn’t worse than death. But I can’t see how it would be cheaper.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  13. do murder cops ever get the death penalty?

    happyfeet (831175)

  14. Question: What protects other inmates from being murdered if the maximum possible penalty has already been imposed? Doesn’t even a bank robber have a right to life?

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  15. A real Native American (not just 1/64th) would have him skinned alive and then buried up to his neck with a wolverine tethered to one of his ears.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  16. do murder cops ever get the death penalty?

    Got an example of one where a premeditated act was involved? Whatever you want to say about Slager, or any of these other shootings, the cop didn’t get up in the morning with a plan.

    Pretty sure that is one of those things required by every state: the killing must come as the result of a premeditated criminal act.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  17. Question: What protects other inmates from being murdered if the maximum possible penalty has already been imposed?

    The maximum penalty being executed.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  18. I’ll leave aside the normally sane Goldberg’s stretch to draw moral and legal equivalence between two entirely different cases.

    One practical advantage to the death penalty, if I may be so bold as to suggest, is you don’t have hostages worth trading for.

    Israel has them. Jordan doesn’t. Anymore. They accelerated executions after ISIS burned their pilot. I tend to lean toward the Jordanian method. I hate watching busloads of what should have been executed prisoners being trucked to the Palestinian territories in trade for a soldier.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  19. Steve. Obama sent 5 of the WORST BASTARDS on EARTH to Qatar aka CUTTER (in the smarter than YOU realm of JJJJJenJJJJJis Khan). Obama KNEW that Bergdahl was not only a DESERTER but also a TRAITOR with DREAMS from his newly minted Muzz Jihad Father. OUR M’FING GOVERNMENT, the CLOWN we call President, TRADED 5 HARD CORE (not CORPSE) TALIBAN MASS MURDERING TERRORISTS. For a fuktard PRIVATE who had both deserted and gone to the OTHER SIDE.
    We are in BIZARRO LAND. Nothing makes sense, when MENTALLY and EMOTIONALLY ILL Marxists are in charge. My bro was director of security for US in Jordan, for 2 years, recently. Jordan is pro-America, and is a Kingdom. Obama has abandoned that alliance too.

    Gus (7cc192)

  20. Gus, the thought of the GITMO five did cross my mind as I was typing my earlier comment.

    Just so you know.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  21. The maximum penalty being executed.

    I see what you did there.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  22. Someday, after a very long march is done, we will have an effective death penalty again.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  23. My understanding of the capital charge in South Carolina is that the officer was guilty of multiple felonies in the act, at least one of which, altering the evidence at the scene, is in furtherance of the act. It may well be a stretch, but there were politics in play, too. Notice there were no riots over it, probably due to the immediate arrest and charging of the officer.

    Or perhaps some would prefer the prosecutor and state police to move more slowly and deliberately. Those whose lives and property might have been put at risk may disagree.

    Estragon (ada867)

  24. Give life to someone who deserved death, and it’s just another notch in their belt.

    The death penalty in California has been suspended for years. Death Row, as I understand it, is more pleasant for the prisoner than the general prison population, even in a maximum security facility.

    As far as method, I think the gas chamber was the best method and humane as lethal injection is not. The people being executed are often drug addicts with no veins left and the executioner must find one to use for the drug. The gas chamber allows a ceremonial execution with no pain and with the minimum ethical issues for the staff.

    The Goldberg column seems to be another example of moral panic that so infests this society on right and left.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  25. maybe piggypigs should be held to a higher standard Mr. M

    or at least maybe this one should be held to the same standard he held Mr. Walter

    it’s just disgusting

    but it’s South Carolina’s problem not our one i guess

    happyfeet (831175)

  26. Rev. Al’s going to preach in Charleston on Sunday.
    “Yup, I’m going,” Sharpton told The Daily News on Friday. “I talked to Anthony (Walter Scott’s brother), who asked me to come. He said I was welcome.” The subject of Sharpton’s sermon at the Charity Missionary Baptist Church will be that people have a right to pursue justice “in a peaceful, legal way.”

    Sharpton said he also plans to visit the spot in nearby North Charleston where Scott was fatally shot by Officer Michael Slager last Saturday — a tragedy that was caught on a cellphone video that horrified the nation.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/walter-scott-no-bench-warrant-issued-killed-article-1.2180438

    elissa (52bd37)

  27. I don’t think Goldberg or anyone else is arguing that Michael Slager should get what would obviously be an ex post facto death penalty since current SC law does not support it (assuming no applicable federal law does, either). Perversely, cop killers qualify for the death penalty in SC but killers who are themselves cops do not. I read Goldberg’s argument as a statement that death penalty laws should cover cases like Slager’s – not that South Carolina law specifically does.

    Jeff (afb610)

  28. I wish the cops who’d burned a toddler’s face off were eligible for the death penalty, as well as the people who’d ordered and signed off on the raid and maybe even the voters who put them in office.

    But I’m not willing to destroy the legal system by making an ex post facto law, and a grand jury decided not to indict anyone over it, and that’s their job to decide even if they decide wrong.

    Gabriel Hanna (c17820)

  29. My understanding of the capital charge in South Carolina is that the officer was guilty of multiple felonies in the act, at least one of which, altering the evidence at the scene, is in furtherance of the act. It may well be a stretch, but there were politics in play, too. Notice there were no riots over it, probably due to the immediate arrest and charging of the officer.

    Or perhaps some would prefer the prosecutor and state police to move more slowly and deliberately. Those whose lives and property might have been put at risk may disagree.

    Estragon (ada867) — 4/11/2015 @ 3:00 am

    It is interesting that the reaction to this shooting hasn’t been Ferguson level. There are a lot of reasons for that (as anyone who has visited St Louis understands). But a big one has to be that the first time 99% of people heard about this story was the report that Slager was charged with murder. That does reduce the inertia because instead of demanding justice many are waiting to see it unfold.

    Pretty sure that is one of those things required by every state: the killing must come as the result of a premeditated criminal act.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

    Good point. But when did the murder (if any) occur? When Slager fired his gun? When he planted the taser and denied first aid in hopes of eliminating a witness that would dispute his report (if that is what happened)? If the former, then no, it probably wasn’t premeditated. If the latter, then yes, it probably was premeditated. Why do I say that? Because there was at least another officer there. First aid would have occurred but for some kind of intervening choice, at least in my theory of how things should be. Can a jury determine that this intervention was premeditated to kill Scott, based on the other things Slager did? It’s theoretically possible. I do not know that this is the truth (even if it’s apparent on video, I am skeptical of that sort of thing), and a fair trial would be a good way to sort it out.

    What I liked about Goldberg’s column was the point that the death penalty is palatable when there is absolute certainty about the worst crimes. I think Patterico has previously advocated a burden of absolute certainty for death penalty sentences (though this might be another pundit I read), and I like that idea. The death penalty is very expensive to adjudicate today. If the crude truth to the criminal justice system is that incapacitation is what works, then we should look to ways to be more efficient, especially with the courts.

    Give life to someone who deserved death, and it’s just another notch in their belt.

    That’s true, and it sickens me. Maybe it’s still for the best if it means the spared resources got more bad guys in a prison.

    Dustin (2a8be7)

  30. A good many of the anti-death penalty people are disingenuous hypocrites. If (when) the death penalty is totally abolished, they will start railing against “life without parole.” They will claim LWOP is “cruel and unusual punishment” and convicted murders should have “hope.”

    The ones who now claim LWOP is worse will then call for the abolition of Life Without Parole.

    DN (78a7ed)

  31. Mike K (90dfdc) — 4/11/2015 @ 7:10 am

    Firing Squad!

    You can do it formally with the prisoner shackled to a chair, or post;
    or Marxian with a pistol-bullet to the back of the head.

    At this point, just what difference does it make?

    askeptic (efcf22)

  32. I don’t think Goldberg or anyone else is arguing that Michael Slager should get what would obviously be an ex post facto death penalty since current SC law does not support it (assuming no applicable federal law does, either). Perversely, cop killers qualify for the death penalty in SC but killers who are themselves cops do not. I read Goldberg’s argument as a statement that death penalty laws should cover cases like Slager’s – not that South Carolina law specifically does.

    Indeed. It’s just a stupid argument. Anyone who has even the remotest familiarity with death penalty cases would laugh out loud, with undisguised shock and contempt, at a suggestion like Goldberg’s.

    I have done 30 murder trials, including one in which the defendant is on Death Row. Every single case I did involved a crime worse than Slager’s — every one — and only one of them merited death as a punishment.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  33. I think Patterico has previously advocated a burden of absolute certainty for death penalty sentences (though this might be another pundit I read), and I like that idea.

    That was me, although I have also noted that the jury’s ability to use lingering doubt as a mitigating factor in the penalty phase means that even the remotest doubt about a defendant’s guilt can get a defendant out of the death penalty. In my case, there was zero doubt — up to and including DNA evidence.

    Patterico (9c670f)


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