Ignorant Parents Encourage Children To Use Vietnam Memorial As A Jungle Gym – In Front Of Veterans
[guest post by Dana]
This is The Vietnam Women’s Memorial in Washington D.C. As you can see, it is also doubling as a jungle gym for children.
[Matthew Munson] was taking photos when girls showed up, and says at first he didn’t think anything of it. He says he was waiting for them to move so he could take more pictures when their parents showed up and told the girls “to get on for pictures.” He says the kids were treating the memorial like a jungle gym.
“The parents were laughing while trying to get their kids to pose,” Munson wrote on Reddit. “There was a crowd of tourists forming around the parents just glaring at them. It was all pretty brutal to watch.”
Veterans watched the antics:
“They looked hurt more than angry. They were quiet. That’s when I noticed a big group around the parents glaring at them, the pressure was intense and the kids blissfully ignorant. That’s when I snapped the picture.”
Reaction to the children playing on the memorial was what you would expect – outrage over the disrespectful behavior being encouraged by parents. However, there are also those who see this as anything but disrespectful:
Some saw the carefree children as the very thing veterans fought to enable. One user told of how his grandfather, a World War II veteran, loved watching kids play on a local memorial that had names of lost friends — including his brother — on it.
“He saw it as a way for the next generation to take some joy out of something so terrible and at the same time gave them a link to the past,” the commenter wrote, noting that some kids would stop to read names or be prompted to read up on the history.
Another said his grandfather, also a World War II vet, let him play on local memorials in town, adding “I think they fought so kids can freely be kids.”
Parents encouraging their children to behave rudely and disrespectfully at a war memorial? If I had been there, I would not have been able to remain silent. Not for one second.
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (86e864) — 3/26/2015 @ 2:43 pmHow low and common some of our countrymen have fallen.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/26/2015 @ 2:46 pmOddly enough, I would be less squeamish about a WWII memorial, because America reveres its WWII veterans. Vietnam vets, both during and after the war, have been vilified. In light of that, I just can’t stomach kids climbing on the memorial, “kids will be kids” or “we fought for children’s right to be kids” aside.
But I’m weird.
bridget (f190e5) — 3/26/2015 @ 2:53 pmi would have used my *outdoor* Army voice…
first on the kids, then on the alleged parents when they said something.
this is bull5hit.
redc1c4 (269d8e) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:04 pmI saw that on FOX this morning. I thought to myself “What the hell, America’s been pissing on us since the 60’s why would I think it would ever change?” When I returned from Nam we were advised to change out of our uniforms before leaving the base. Those who didn’t wished they had.
Hoagie (58a3ec) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:06 pmWith all do respect. It is a Vietnam Memorial. That war was started with lies.
Vietnam memorials should be defecated and pissed on. All those billions wasted just so USA and Europe could get cheap HEroin, and sell some bombs to the tax payers.
Screw Vietnam and all the losers who didnt aim weapons at their commanders and demand an early end to such a vicous tragic waste of life.
Same to Iraq and Afghanistan soldiers of today. You are cowards for not shutting it down.
Dave Howes (6de127) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:07 pmI would attribute it to societal opinion and behavior rather than make this family out to be evil. Thoughtless, yes. That is not to excuse their behavior, but I think education to be thoughtful is more likely to be helpful than chastisement.
The populace at large personally know fewer vets than we once did, and especially so with Vietnam. Over time I’ve found out various people who served years ago that I never would have guessed. So even if one does know a vet, maybe they don’t know it.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:08 pmI really wished he took a shot of the parents. Then spread their low class faces all over the internet.
Hoagie (58a3ec) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:10 pmThe Dave Howes of the world prove my point. What an ass.
Hoagie (58a3ec) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:12 pmI think Heinlein was on to something in “Starship Troopers” where the franchise was limited to people who had done significant public service, such as veterans.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:17 pmI invite Dave Howe to take a piss on the Vietnam Memorial in DC some weekend at noon.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:18 pmMD,
I don’t believe the family to be “evil”, just ignorant. With that, I think a collective dose of positive peer-pressure from the surrounding group may have not only gotten the children off of the memorial but, if handled with finesse, may have also opened up a dialogue with parents where they could be reminded that veterans were in their midst and what a wonderful opportunity for their children to say hello and perhaps everyone learn something.
(Also, I’m going to bite: you haven’t been in Philly for a while – have you moved or are you just playing in the surf and sun on some Caribbean island???)
Dana (86e864) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:18 pmit’s even worse when these trashy people go overseas and act this way
happyfeet (831175) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:24 pmI haven’t been in the service for a while and wasn’t in very long, but changing out of uniform for a trip to town was pretty standard. It’s what we had civilian clothes for.
It expressly forbidden to wear “cammies” (service utility uniform). Like for instance if you were traveling between commands then you would be encouraged to wear Bravo or Charlie, depending on weather.
Were servicemen encouraged not to wear uniform in public pre Vietnam?
papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:32 pmalso you have to realize a really really small number of pictures of statues go a long long way when you’re out doing sightseeing stuff
i learned this at
where was i
vicksburg
yeah you really only need so much of that stuff in your scrapbook
sometimes i like to use the “negative” setting so they look like the scary dr. who statues what want to eat you face
happyfeet (831175) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:36 pmWhen a unit was moving as a unit, like convoying trucks down th interstate, then we wore cammies in public. But not ever on an individual “time off” trip in public.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:36 pmThe Vietnam Women’s Memorial is a monument to political correctness more than anything. Very few women served in Vietnam and almost none died. There are more than 58,000 names carved in the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall, of which seven were women who served in the Army and one who served in the Air Force. Those eight are the only U.S. servicewomen to die in the war (I think there was one Aussie military woman who also died in the war). If you throw in all civilian women who died in war-related roles between 1960 and 1975, the number dead barely gets to 100 and that number includes deaths by natural causes.
A friend of mine, a cross-dressing homosexual, served in the Vietnam War. When I asked if he felt out of place, he told me “Not at all. There were lots of us.” So where is the memorial to cross-dressing homosexuals who served in the war? I bet it’s coming. And there will be children playing on that memorial to.
ThOR (a52560) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:36 pmCould they be the children of recent immigrants who don’t know what the memorial represents?
ropelight (268f4d) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:41 pmHey MD in Philly, the Oak Lane Diner is closed up and out of business. I can’t believe it after at least 50 years.
Hoagie (58a3ec) — 3/26/2015 @ 4:02 pmWell, when you have a Preezy that uses the Parks Service to prevent vets from visiting memorials of wars in which they participated, this is what you get. Dumb parents raising even dumber kids and people like Dave Howes soiling his panties in front of everyone.
Gazzer (a0730b) — 3/26/2015 @ 4:14 pmThey closed the Oak Lane diner?! I loved that place. My parents used to take me there when they would do a memory lane trip past their first apartment on 65th Ave.
Jack Klompus (7e1c13) — 3/26/2015 @ 4:46 pmseeing how they were playing on the type of memorial it is, i would say it doesn’t make a difference which events were being memorialized. The depicted scene should not be played on or around.
seeRpea (c1462d) — 3/26/2015 @ 4:47 pmIn f1 world all the Kennedy crowd that got us into Vietnam would have gotten the ISIS cage treatment. Starting with McNamara. Having said that when the Re-educators come for Dave Howe they can have him.
f1guyus (9cbd15) — 3/26/2015 @ 4:55 pmThe Oak Lane Diner gone? I can’t believe it either. You don’t know what you’ve got until it’s gone. I’ve been there in the last 6 months at least once.
It is news to me, as noted, I’m spending a lot of time with my folks in Ohio trying to help them get some equilibrium after some medical problems.
The Caribbean sands will be this summer when son #2 has his destination wedding.
if handled with finesse, may have also opened up a dialogue with parents
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 3/26/2015 @ 5:04 pmI think we are of the same mind, Dana. That’s what I was trying to say, a teachable moment rather than a scolding/excoriating moment.
An amusing interlude:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person_p2/
DNF (8028c5) — 3/26/2015 @ 5:11 pmChildren are children, not their fault. Real nurses mostly love kids. Most serving and veterans also love kids. Playing with children can be a joy.
Parents are supposed to be parents, and teach their children how to play properly. But then, these days, parents are frequently little more than large ego-ed children, so ….
Robert Bly, The Sibling Society ; not a quotation, but echoing an idea therein.
htom (4ca1fa) — 3/26/2015 @ 5:16 pm“If you throw in all civilian women who died in war-related roles between 1960 and 1975, the number dead barely gets to 100 and that number includes deaths by natural causes.”
– ThOR
Other than the thousands and thousands and thousands of Vietnamese, Laotian, and Cambodian women, of course.
Leviticus (087a4a) — 3/26/2015 @ 5:24 pmThe Memorial honors the estimated 11 to 12 thousand American women who served in Vietnam – 90 percent of them as medical personnel. They tended the 300,000 wounded American boys, including the 29,000 KIA who never saw their 19th birthday.
Like the American servicemen who returned to an often hostile and largely unsympathetic reception, these women who had seen so much suffering and who had experienced the horror of so much concentrated death came home to little recognition of their own suffering. It took more than 20 years for the nation to recognize that like their male counterparts, many of these women were victims of post traumatic stress disorders.
These women have more than earned the respect and the gratitude of brave and honorable men. The opinions of others are irrelevant.
ropelight (268f4d) — 3/26/2015 @ 5:40 pm“Other than the thousands and thousands and thousands of Vietnamese, Laotian, and Cambodian women, of course.”
Leviticus (087a4a) — 3/26/2015 @ 5:24 pm
Yes, all thanks to JFK, LBJ, and the anti-war left who did their level best to ensure the abandonment of SE Asia, left to the Communist wolves.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/26/2015 @ 5:44 pmmust have been the Howes family…
a class act in all respects.
redc1c4 (cf3b04) — 3/26/2015 @ 5:57 pmWas that Howes comment parody?
JD (86a5eb) — 3/26/2015 @ 5:58 pmVietnam memorials should be defecated and pissed on. All those billions wasted just so USA and Europe could get cheap HEroin, and sell some bombs to the tax payers.
Wow, I guess the lefties read the blog. You seem to be a member of the Jane Fonda school of nastiness. I certainly hope you have an opportunity to explain your sentiments to an ISIS member, which seems to be increasing in likelihood.
I did not fight in Vietnam having been in the military even before that got active. I do wish you had had an opportunity to feel what hot ordnance felt like. Maybe when you are robbing a gas station.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:00 pmWent to d.c. years ago for the gathering of eagles. It was to make sure the commie protesters did not desecrate the Vietnam Wall.
mg (31009b) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:09 pmThey did not have a f-ing chance of getting close to that Wall. The Howes of this world need to be taught a deadly lesson.
Yes, all thanks to JFK, LBJ, and the anti-war left who did their level best to ensure the abandonment of SE Asia, left to the Communist wolves.
I am pretty sure that JFK was not advocating abandonment of SE Asia, except perhaps in Oliver Stone’s fevered dreams. LBJ wasn’t so much for abandoning, as for fighting it all wrong. Nearly everything we know about counterinsurgency comes from examination of LBJ’s many mistakes.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:14 pmHow can this be?…
“Dave Howes, singer, concertina and skin flutist died in Doncaster on Tuesday 9th December.
He’s featured on an LP by Fanny Fettle back in the 70’s called Trip To Gobblegate.”
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:14 pmIs it possible the children and their parents are tourists?
DRJ (e80d46) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:18 pmI’m Not surprised, Col.
mg (31009b) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:18 pmProbably could’ve been worded better, Kev… it was the anti-war left who forgot all about the population once they helped to hurry the pull-out. As I recall, only Joan Baez owned up to a sense of responsibility for some of that.
But you probably knew that.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:19 pmIt was republicans who forced it to be put up because they didn’t like the wall memorial. So if republicans are upset who cares. You can look into the history of the statue to see it was republican super patriotic vietnam war draft dodger chicken hawks who put it up.
truther (99bfd4) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:33 pmrepublican super patriotic vietnam war draft dodger chicken hawks who put it up.
Another angry lefty. Nice of you to memorialize Obama in your handle.
Had dinner Saturday night with some folks whose son went to Occidental with Barry Soetero. He remembered him and said he was there as a foreign student from Kenya. I think he was born in Hawaii but took advantage of foreign student advantages.
This is the same story, with a few embellishments,
Mike K (90dfdc) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:39 pmDRJ,
The link says that they were tourists. However, two things: When seeing the memorial in person, it is nearly impossible – whether an American or tourist – to not recognize that the piece has great meaning and symbolism. From the pose of the soldier, to the cradling of him by the nurse, even down to the sandbags and combat boots, it all speaks to war and something tragic. Further, the memorial is not isolated but is in close proximity to the Vietnam Wall and Three Soldiers war memorial as well. Therefore, even if they were unfamiliar with the particulars, it would stand to reason that the average person would understand from the get-go that the memorial signifies something important.
Dana (86e864) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:45 pmReally? Nam names dumbass.
So basically anyone who does not adhere to your twisted, paranoid political views just don’t count. How open minded, dumbass.
I suppose that’s better than being democrat super traitors and Canadian runners steeped in their own bile of hatred and division as well as their loathing for America. Dumbass.
Hoagie (58a3ec) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:50 pmI asked that poorly, Dana. Could they be foreign tourists? It’s not much different but maybe they didn’t realize what it was?
PS to MD – Go Badgers!
DRJ (e80d46) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:53 pmneed to be caught up on a little Patterico.com history.
seeRpea (c1462d) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:56 pmis “truther” for real (i mean a sincere ‘troller’) or just someone having fun?
Frankly, though, I wonder if many Americans would feel reverence or respect for a memorial. It seems like something that doesn’t matter to people today.
DRJ (e80d46) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:57 pmno it’s perry, or dimwit, or other nazgul,
narciso (ee1f88) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:57 pmIt’s unfair and inaccurate to blame JFK for the Vietnam War. His National Security Action Memo (NSAM – #263) signaled the beginning of America’s withdrawal from SEA. It specified the first 1000 troops would be home for Christmas 1963 and all remaining troops out by the end of the following year. That decision is in large part what inspired those in the US military who cooperated in his assassination and subsequent cover-up. LBJ, J Edgar Hoover, Allen Dulles, and members of organized crime conspired to murder JFK for more personal reasons.
ropelight (268f4d) — 3/26/2015 @ 7:00 pmactually,Moyer’s Victory Forsaken, which drew on Russian and Vietnamese archives, show JFK’s policies, typified by the Diem coup, lost us the war before the marines landed in Danang,
narciso (ee1f88) — 3/26/2015 @ 7:09 pmOther than the thousands and thousands and thousands of Vietnamese, Laotian, and Cambodian women, of course.
Leviticus (087a4a) — 3/26/2015 @ 5:24 pm
If you want to play that game, Leviticus, how many died before the US left and how many died after the US left?
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 3/26/2015 @ 7:16 pmPS to MD – Go Badgers!
DRJ (e80d46) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:53 pm
Thank you, thank you. 🙂
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 3/26/2015 @ 7:17 pmAll those billions wasted just so USA and Europe could get cheap HEroin, and sell some bombs to the tax payers.
I can tolerate your flippancy if you also acknowledge that ultra-leftist regimes make a big mess of things, spread misery far and wide, and hurt lots of innocent humans. If not — if you shrug off the ruthlessness of Communist idiocy — then I can tolerate your response if you at least don’t consider yourself a big-hearted, wonderful, generous soul. IOW, if left-leaning sentiments are undergirding your or any other person’s take on things, I just hope they’re not predicated on the assumption they originate from a place of love and compassion.
I certainly hope the people of the left who were and are more bothered by Bush and the US than Hussein (ie, the Butcher of Baghdad) and Iraq (or today’s version of Vietnam) don’t see themselves as humane, caring members of society.
Mark (c160ec) — 3/26/2015 @ 7:26 pmthat’s the same fool idiocy that Frank Lucas sold Mark Jacobsen on,and years before, the left came up as their ‘black legend’ narrative for the war,
narciso (ee1f88) — 3/26/2015 @ 7:29 pmHave you seen this, MD?
DRJ (e80d46) — 3/26/2015 @ 7:48 pmif it were possible to be more ignorant, RS would find a way:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/ted-cruz-on-9-11-i-didnt-like-how-rock-music-responded-20150324
narciso (ee1f88) — 3/26/2015 @ 7:53 pmDRJ,
Maybe they were foreign. But if you had small children and were visiting a foreign country, would you let your children climb on statues, especially if they resembled something like a memorial and even if you didn’t know the particulars? To me, it’s akin to letting them run and jump on gravestones in a cemetery. Disrespectful, even if I didn’t know whose grave it was. I figure this is just teaching children to be respectful. Even more so if it ends up being a memorial. Especially if not on American soil.
Dana (86e864) — 3/26/2015 @ 7:54 pmYesterday I waited on a customer who was lecturing her eight year old son on his bratty behavior, which she blamed on the educational system and the media. All this while buying him over a hundred dollars worth of Nike® clothing, which she then turned over to his Latino nanny. Me being a store employee, I felt it best not to hint that a look in the mirror might be appropriate. (And he was not being more bratty than most eight year olds have always been.)
kishnevi (adea75) — 3/26/2015 @ 8:06 pmI think the main problem is that we no longer teach our young how to honor the fallen war dead. Mostly because we are fully on the post-modern notion that all wars are misguided wastes of human life that never happened (there may be a kernel of truth there, but it’s not as if we have the luxury of mindless pacifism). See the moron commenting above for an example of this. I remember some years back when there was a scandal in my neighborhood because some local kids were sneaking into a cemetery — one that was the final resting place to a number of veterans — late at night to drink beer, smoke weed, and have sex. When caught the kids expressed surprise that cemeteries in general and military burial places in particular were supposed to be treated with such reverence. They had viewed it as a more private version of the local park.
JVW (a1146f) — 3/26/2015 @ 8:15 pmI had heard something about that, DRJ, but didn’t really know what happened.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 3/26/2015 @ 8:17 pmThat was funny. Sounds like Wisconsin folk.
I wonder what Hayes majors in.
Mark@51…reference your conclusion.
kishnevi (adea75) — 3/26/2015 @ 8:17 pmIt would be more reasonable to be bothered by Bush than Saddam, in the same way that a person is always more bothered by the actions of a relative or close neighbor than by a person with whom there is no close connection. You would doubtless be more ashamed if your uncle was revealed to be a shoplifter than if your coworker was revealed to be a serial killer. You would certainly take a much more active roke in your uncle’s case, especially if your uncle claimed to be acting on your behalf and to your benefit.
JVW @ 57
kishnevi (9c4b9c) — 3/26/2015 @ 8:28 pmAlso possibly in play is an increasing perception of the military as a perpetual government jobs program that allows a lifetime of sucking at the public teats, if kept at long enough.
I never quite got over those people shown in the media during the (first phase of) the Afghan War, who thought it was unjust of the government to send them overseas to fight simply because they had signed up for the National Guard. And this was not the media complaining, but the NG and reserve personnel themselves, who simply did not grok that being in the military was something more than lining up for a paycheck.
I presume, or at least hope, the intervening years have washed those sort of people out of the system.
@ JVW,
How much do you think this is a result of the military being disrespected by this administration as well as the military being lumped in with EvilBush-Iraq blame game?
Dana (86e864) — 3/26/2015 @ 8:29 pmHow much do you think this is a result of the military being disrespected by this administration as well as the military being lumped in with EvilBush-Iraq blame game?
It’s a factor, Dana, but it’s also part of the fact that since the Cold War the military has become pretty much a partisan issue. The September 11 attacks for one brief moment united us in common cause again, but that moment was pretty short-lived. And the 60s radicals have been so successful in working their way into academia and the education establishment that even our efforts in WW2 are subject to revisionist history. I’ll bet you that the average high school sophomore is taught way more about the Japanese Internment Camps, the bombings of Dresden and Tokyo, and the dropping of the atomic bombs than they are about Iwo Jima, Anzio, or the Battle of the Bulge. Given all this, it’s no wonder that a certain subset of our culture is taught that the military is made up of poor brainwashed kids who are too misguided or dumb to be in college majoring in Gender Studies and agitating for Social Justice.
JVW (a1146f) — 3/26/2015 @ 8:55 pmDana,
I agree with you and I have all along, but I’m trying to figure out how this could happen. IMO there are 3 possibilities: (1) the parents didn’t realize this was a memorial, or (2) the parents don’t understand how to act at a memorial, or (3) the parents don’t care what this was or how people expect them to act. I think the default assumption is (3) and that’s probably correct, but (1) and (2) are also possible.
The most charitable assumption to me is that these are foreign-born parents who live in the United States and were visiting DC as tourists. Living here, they may feel a freedom to act indulgently the way American tourists often do. However, if they aren’t from America originally, they may not have studied our history and thus they may not realize the solemnity accorded the monuments and memorials, especially in the DC area. I suspect that’s being way too charitable.
DRJ (e80d46) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:03 pmAlso, Dana, my gut says your comment 61 is exactly right.
DRJ (e80d46) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:04 pmMD,
I saw the press conference earlier and didn’t understand what was going on, so I started looking around and found that. I am impressed with those young men. Not only is it impressive that the players noticed and were intrigued with the stenographer, but they took the time to find out about her and what she did. And … they have a very impressive vocabulary. I’m an even bigger fan of them than I already was.
DRJ (e80d46) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:08 pmHowever, if they aren’t from America originally, they may not have studied our history and thus they may not realize the solemnity accorded the monuments and memorials, especially in the DC area. I suspect that’s being way too charitable.
I would like that to be the scenario too, DRJ, though I don’t think that would fully exculpate their callow behavior. I can’t imagine a American (or a Somali or Malay or Brazilian for that matter) going into Belgium and thinking it was OK to climb all over a World War I monument, or anybody going to Japan and clowning around a memorial to the Russo-Japanese War. But maybe my imagination is pretty limited and this sort of thing happens all the time. If so, what a pity.
JVW (a1146f) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:10 pmIt would be more reasonable to be bothered by Bush than Saddam, in the same way that a person is always more bothered by the actions of a relative or close neighbor than by a person with whom there is no close connection.
kishnevi, I’m skeptical if that’s necessarily what’s fueling X percentage of those liberals who would judge Bush quite differently (ie, with far less, if any, opobrium) if he were of the left too. Moreover, the way liberals in the Western World would deal with Hussein and Iraq if such entities were totally, absolutely, indisputably First World and capitalistic in nature. IOW, I observe the idiotic, ass-backwards way that so many “progressives” perceive and characterize, for example, crime and criminals — in which the good becomes the bad, and the bad becomes the good — that my cynicism towards what’s really fueling the left knows no bounds.
Mark (c160ec) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:10 pm“If you want to play that game, Leviticus, how many died before the US left and how many died after the US left?”
– MD in Philly
What “game”? Someone claimed that only eight or nine civilian women died in the Vietnam War. I pointed out that Vietnamese women count too. Do you disagree?
Leviticus (c53656) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:25 pmWhat “game”? Someone claimed that only eight or nine civilian women died in the Vietnam War. I pointed out that Vietnamese women count too.
In all fairness, Leviticus, the subject at hand was the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, not the Vietnam Civilians Memorial.
JVW (a1146f) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:40 pmThOR is correct that there were 8 female veteran casualties in the Vietnam War. There were 58,212 male casualties.
DRJ (e80d46) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:50 pmI have a close friend who served as a nurse in Desert Storm. Nurses are heroes in every war.
DRJ (e80d46) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:52 pmLeviticus (c53656) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:25 pm
What JVW and DRJ said.
Maybe I’m wrong, but it seemed more of a snarky comment as you had to go off the immediate topic to pull it in,
rather than pointing out the tragedy of war that also affected a whole lot of military and civilian lives than those listed on the Wall of the Memorial.
I have no problem with people who say that the Vietnam War was a bad idea, or that it was fought foolishly, etc., if they will acknowledge that the US was not the prime instigator and that when the US pulled out it did not make things better but made them worse.
Do people think it is a good thing that S. Korea is not just the southern half of N. Korea?
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 3/27/2015 @ 7:48 amI think it is.
Was it worth the price?
That is a question where my answer doesn’t count that much.
I certainly have at times posted without taking the time to read everything, and I often say so.
I guess the original point is that the statue makes the presence of women prominent, even though female casualties were but a very small percentage, and even if you are looking at total US female deaths (being a US memorial), it was still a very small percentage. That is where/how civilian casualties were brought in.
Every death was important and sad, even though it was “only” 1/55,000th of the casualties.
The issue was a US war memorial for those who the US lost. Leaving out others was not necessarily meaning they did not count, just that they weren’t American, the subject of the memorial statue.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 3/27/2015 @ 7:59 am