Patterico's Pontifications

3/5/2015

Think Your Perfect SAT Scores Will Give You Your Choice of Colleges? Think Again.

Filed under: General — Dana @ 7:30 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Three 16-year old students from Arcadia, California scored perfect scores on the SAT. It should then follow that that the scores of Hanah Lee, Jeffrey Wang and Titus Wu, combined with stellar academic records and resumes of well-rounded extra-curricular activities would qualify this group to attend any college of their choice. Think again:

In a windowless classroom at an Arcadia tutoring center, parents crammed into child-sized desks and dug through their pockets and purses for pens as Ann Lee launches a PowerPoint presentation.

Her primer on college admissions begins with the basics: application deadlines, the relative virtues of the SAT versus the ACT and how many Advanced Placement tests to take.

Then she eases into a potentially incendiary topic — one that many counselors like her have learned they cannot avoid.

“Let’s talk about Asians,” she says.

Lee then points out the discriminatory system in play:

Lee’s next slide shows three columns of numbers from a Princeton University study that tried to measure how race and ethnicity affect admissions by using SAT scores as a benchmark. It uses the term “bonus” to describe how many extra SAT points an applicant’s race is worth. She points to the first column.

African Americans received a “bonus” of 230 points, Lee says.

She points to the second column.

“Hispanics received a bonus of 185 points.”

The last column draws gasps.

Asian Americans, Lee says, are penalized by 50 points — in other words, they had to do that much better to win admission.

“Do Asians need higher test scores? Is it harder for Asians to get into college? The answer is yes,” Lee says.

Unfortunately, this is nothing new. Nonetheless, when excellence is rewarded less than skin color, it’s tough not to ask what the point is in doing all the hard work in the first place. And if a student needs such a big bump of bonus points just to get in the door, what happens when that student is faced with the challenging academics and rigorous demands of a four-year college? Are there more bonus points allotted if the preferred student starts to fail? Or is he allotted a few points and a tutor – maybe a tutor who scored 2400 on his SAT and knows the material of study inside and out because he is fully committed to his own academic success, worked incredibly hard to get through the door on his own merits, and is completely up to the challenge of an education that he values above all else?

–Dana

36 Responses to “Think Your Perfect SAT Scores Will Give You Your Choice of Colleges? Think Again.”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (86e864)

  2. Racists

    JD (4d1012)

  3. Speaking from experience of almost forty years ago, SAT scores are not actually the most important thing in college acceptances. A couple of my classmates achieved perfect SATs, and several others got near perfect (in my case, 800 Verbal 770 Math back when it had two sections). All of us were rejected by at least one school. Most of us settled for second choice schools because we didn’t get scholarships from our first choice. One was black, and went to Harvard because he was given a scholarship specifically designated for black students. Another ended up at Stanford. The rest ended up at schools not usually named as top tier, a couple ended up at U of Fla because they did not get enough financial aid for anywhere else. I got a scholarship from my first choice only because my first choice was not an Ivy League school. Admissions decisions rested on various intangibles that were never clearly spelled out and getting a scholarship was the crucial step.
    The only real difference today is that the intangibles are spelled out.

    kishnevi (9c4b9c)

  4. My daughter had an Asian friend whose last name was hispanic. Her family had changed it years before in order to game the racial preferences system. BTW… the friend got early admittance into one of the most selective colleges in the country.

    John Moore (ac5430)

  5. But they still voted for Obama.

    AZ Bob (34bb80)

  6. Lee’s favorite class at Arcadia High is AP biology. She hopes to attend Stanford University and study biology after graduating high school.

    Wang’s favorite class is also AP biology. He is close to earning the Eagle Scout ranking within the Boy Scouts of America organization and also plays on the volleyball team.

    Wu works on Pow Wow, the student-run newspaper at Arcadia High. He said his “dream college” is New York University, where he hopes to major in journalism one day.

    I’m sure these are good kids, but young Mr. Wu who wants to go to NYU? That’s just not right.

    JVW (854318)

  7. So, how do you convince these smart people that joining the Democrat cause is not in their best interest?

    Also, a journalism degree probably is not the best choice, so maybe they are not as smart as I think.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  8. This is a topic upon which I am too angry to comment.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  9. How proud Martin Luther King Jr. would be. /sarcasm

    It’s been many many years since I’ve read the Dream Speech. I think I’m not the only one.

    http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkihaveadream.htm

    htom (4ca1fa)

  10. But they still voted for Obama.

    Some Asians did, some did not. I suspect if you exclude the socialist hotbeds of Hawaii and San Francisco they went far more Republican. Even then, it does not mean they have become a Democrat constituency — Obama attracted a lot of non-white votes just for that reason. Hillary will get far fewer Asian votes.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  11. horrors! This ikind of discrimination is one reason I’m doing everything I can to earn my degree without attending a brick and mortar.

    PolitixFireball (faddef)

  12. So, how do you convince these smart people that joining the Democrat cause is not in their best interest?

    Because they’re liberal more than they are anything else. The same syndrome (some may call it illness) applies to scholastically gifted whites, blacks, Latinos, Jews, Christians, straights, gays, males, females, native-born and foreign-born. Moreover, it illustrates the way that high intelligence, certainly in terms of great rote ability, doesn’t necessarily mean a damn thing when it comes to a person’s degree of rational, logical, sensible thinking (eg, Albert Einstein was philosophically quite a leftwinger).

    Mark (c160ec)

  13. Take your diploma and shove it.

    mg (31009b)

  14. “measure how race and ethnicity affect admissions by using SAT scores as a benchmark”

    Oh wow. To get those numbers, they assume that the SAT captures everything that the Yale admissions office takes into account, but race. Seems like a stretch.

    sing (bbbfe8)

  15. The college admissions (and scholarship) game stinks to high heaven. The scholarship issue is even more lopsided than admissions. Yet, if given the chance, do you play that game?

    I’m very white. My wife is a first generation immigrant (now U.S. citizen) from Central America. When our kids are old enough to apply for college and scholarships, what do we do? Do they identify themselves as Hispanic, with the accompanying admissions bumps and scholarships? It can make a big difference in how an admissions office treats you.

    I was salutatorian in my high school class in the South, and one of those people who had a nearly perfect SAT (1590). My wife went to a magnet science high school in New York. We both attended a prestigious midwest university. I received no scholarships and only need-based financial aid. My wife was flown out to the school for visits and given multiple generous scholarships for minority students. Now, my wife is a very smart and gifted woman, and deserved merit scholarships for her real achievements. But what the school focused on was a few boxes she checked on the application, and because of them, rewarded her greatly.

    Again, what do we do when our kids are old enough for college?

    Virginia SoCon (8eb3c5)

  16. Nonetheless, when excellence is rewarded less than skin color, it’s tough not to ask what the point is in doing all the hard work in the first place.

    Well, my daughter has been getting straight A’s so she’s going to Paris for spring break. Academic nebbish bull***t is important only to academic nebbishes. Princeton’s admissions policies have always been bull***t to begin with with legacy admissions. It’s more of a big fraternity cum country club than a university.

    nk (dbc370)

  17. “Oh wow. To get those numbers, they assume that the SAT captures everything that the Yale admissions office takes into account, but race. Seems like a stretch.

    sing (bbbfe8) — 3/6/2015 @ 4:22 am”

    I know that colleges have been asserting that they take into account all kinds of unmeasured factors that allow them to have a more “diverse” campus. If their choices weren’t so consistently in favor of Black students who then fail out at a disproportionately high rate, then I might be more inclines do believe them. But Colleges and Universities have been hotbeds of political correctness and hypocrisy for a long, LONG time. In the 18th century you could not attend the best English Universities unless you were willing to sign a document swearing that you accepted the Anglican faith. Needless to say, a high proportion of the great scientific discoveries of that Age were made by “Dissenter” like Joseph Priestly.

    The current system of Colleges and Universities has painted itself into a Politically Correct corner, and is losing relevance fast. I am strongly persuaded that that is why the Powers That BE are so up in arms over the supposed failures of the for-pay colleges; it’s a distraction for the train wreck of higher education in general. Bullshit racial quotas a a symptom of a disease that the whole system is dying of.

    Liberal Idiocy.

    C. S. P. Schofield (a196fd)

  18. Virginia SoCon,

    Apparently, legally changing one’s last name is not unheard of, however, I’m not sure what happens when the the face-to-face interviews happen.

    Dana (86e864)

  19. You know “Chinita”, little Chinese girl, is a colloquialism for Indian-looking Hispanics. It’s famous in Yradier’s “La Paloma”, Ay, Chinita que si …. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  20. I had a roommate, nth-generation Cuban, with a Turkish name. And what would they classify Christina Kircher. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  21. And isn’t the science settled that homo sapiens sapiens originated in Africa?

    nk (dbc370)

  22. My children are half Asian and I have told them never, ever to put that on a form.

    DD learned about that MLK speech in school and came home and told me she should be able to tell people, because character is what counts.

    I had to tell her that there are bad people out there who don’t like her because of the color of her skin, and who will think they are following MLK by making sure they don’t let “too many” Asians in their school.

    Bill (eb85fb)

  23. It’s true, with my last name, one might wonder where the Hispanic comes from, but we won’t go so far as to change our names. As far as interviews go, depending on the kid, some could pass as very light-skinned Hispanics, but one is very fair-skinned like me.

    What bothers me more is that this has never come up with our girls. Yes, they know that Mommy and Daddy look a little different, but so does everyone’s Mommy and Daddy. To them, they are (by initials) T, L, M, etc.; not T (a Hispanic/white girl from the suburbs), L (a Hispanic/white girl from the suburbs); and so on. Racial heritage may affect how they look, but they don’t equate that with their identity or that of their friends.

    As they grow older, I do introduce them to the political constructs of the age, so that they are aware of what is out there and how to rebut the arguments. After all, they will be hit with it full force eventually. I have a feeling we will end up playing the financial aid/scholarship game, since it will probably make a difference of some tens of thousands of dollars for each kid who goes to college (and there may be one or two who do not).

    Virginia SoCon (8eb3c5)

  24. Some Asians did, some did not. I suspect if you exclude the socialist hotbeds of Hawaii and San Francisco they went far more Republican. Even then, it does not mean they have become a Democrat constituency — Obama attracted a lot of non-white votes just for that reason. Hillary will get far fewer Asian votes.

    Kevin M, you need to adjust your thinking. Most did, a few did not. I live in a Philly suburb. My wife is from South Korea. A large number of our friends are Korean and Chinese. We attend a Korean Lutheran church. We are both members of the Korean Business Association. About 80% of those people and organizations I just mentioned are liberal Democrats. I battle (philosophically) with these guys all the time. At the end of each discussion they all admit my points are valid, my candidates or economic or tax or regulatory ideas are correct and they still go back and vote Democrat knowing full well they are voting against their best interests. And nothing I can say or do can ever see to stop them.

    I believe this is because they hail from countries and societies which are more socialistic and have governments which are far more paternalistic than our traditional American society. They’re used to it. It’s what they know. I’ve changed a few minds along the way but for the most part I’d have more luck trying to talk them out of eating kim-chee than turning Republican.

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  25. Bill, I feel for you, for your kids are in the opposite camp of mine. It’s probably better for her to put white/caucasian on any form than Asian, for at least then the standards are lower. (Who knows how “No answer” would be judged? Probably a blend of white/caucasian and Asian.)

    I hate even writing that, but it’s true.

    What I hate even more is that our racial grievance system has forced us to strip innocence from children in order for them to be informed about our political environment.

    Virginia SoCon (8eb3c5)

  26. America didn’t get to be a penurious fascist international laughingstock by rewarding people based on merit you know

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  27. kishnevi, I too went to college about 40 years ago. I had a 4.0 average and did 1570 on my SAT’s. I applied to Temple, Drexel and Princeton. I was turned down from the fist two because they needed to “enhance their minority registration”. Princeton accepted me but I had to work 52 weeks a year to pay my way. Other than a small Pell Grant I got zip. BTW, Princeton was my last choice.

    And nk is correct. Even then Princeton was a pvssy-5ssed school and their “legacy” crap almost got me denied there. But I got in and working and taking classes straight through graduated in three years with a degree in economics. I was never so happy to get out of school in my life.

    I learned more about economics, accounting and business from my Greek mentor and my first year in business than Princeton could have taught me in a decade.

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  28. Why is there no bonus points for the Irish?

    Michael Ejercito (d9a893)

  29. One of my former partners was Cuban whose parents sent him to the US when they realized what was going on with Castro. They could not get out for several years and he spent a couple of years in an orphanage. Finally, they all got back together and he went to college in Los Angeles. He applied to UC medical school and waited a couple of months to hear if he was admitted. Finally, he drove to San Francisco and asked the admitting office what was going on. He was told that his application was in the “Hispanic” committee for consideration. Not knowing what criteria they might be using, he asked if he could just be considered “white” in spite of his name. They agreed and he was accepted a week or so later.

    The black and Hispanic students are going to find that they are all assumed to be less qualified. NO matter what school they attended and no matter what quota their jobs will fill.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  30. “it’s tough not to ask what the point is in doing all the hard work in the first place.”

    This type of discrimination needs to be resisted in every possible way. But it is not advisable for an individual asian (or white) student to slack off. On a scale of 1-10, they may have taken the 10 away from you, but you still get to determine if you end up with a 9 or a 5.

    Mike S (89ec89)

  31. Social engineering and tinkering almost always makes us less free and in the end disadvantages society. Whether it’s race based college admission quotas, weighted test scores which alter actual merit criteria in hiring or education, or “truth” based google searches as are being discussed on another thread. The unintended consequences and results are almost always worse both for society and the individual than the “wrongs” that are supposedly being addressed. We must also include the long term practice of head of the line legacy university admissions which are equally as egregious. Those come from a different direction but smell the same.

    elissa (d2bc26)

  32. 5.But they still voted for Obama.

    AZ Bob (34bb80) — 3/5/2015 @ 9:02 pm

    One reason is that these policies rarely are an issue in elections, so why would it cause them not to vote for Obama? And why isn’t it an issue? Cause the Republicans don’t raise it. It would be a clever tactic for a Republican running in a state with a large Asian population to bring this up – specifically pointing how Asians are discriminated against, citing stories like this one. But Repubs are too stupid to do something like that. Or they’d fear being called “divisive”.

    With respect to Obama, college admissions aren’t implemented at the Federal level outside the military academies, however the Obama admin has become creative in pressuring people and entities theoretically outside their authority. So if some State U. or maybe even a private one announced they were dropping these policies, they might all of a sudden get unwelcome attention from the Justice Dept. But that’s a complicated argument to make in an election.

    Gerald A (9d7d51)

  33. There are two separate issues here. The first is affirmative action and racial discrimination; the second is the way in which elite colleges build a class.

    Harvard has more valedictorian applicants than it has seats in its class. MIT could fill its class twice over with people who got perfect math SAT scores. These colleges need to find a logical way to differentiate candidates and also want to build a class.

    People want to go to colleges that have good sports teams, orchestras, a cappella groups, theatre troupes, a good student newspaper, and opportunities to be on the debate team. In order to make that happen, the admissions committee has to admit athletes, dancers, actors, musicians, and writers.

    That also means that a student might be better off spending some time in the theatre group instead of yet another SAT prep class.

    bridget (cac612)

  34. Again, what do we do when our kids are old enough for college?

    Given the demographic direction the country is taking, your kids should game the system for all it’s worth. Being a standard-issue white in this country will soon be an impediment to getting any job beyond menial or into any school beyond a diploma mill.

    In fact, I am nothing more than a honky / gringo / round-eye, but were I college-bound in this day and age, you can bet I would make full use of my very distant Spanish heritage to get a free or reduced-cost ride, and a proper job.

    Celebrate Homogeneity (c59e80)

  35. The reason to do the hard work is that it makes you more able to cope with the fools who didn’t.

    htom (4ca1fa)

  36. I learned more about economics, accounting and business from my Greek mentor and my first year in business than Princeton could have taught me in a decade.

    So why do employers value Princeton degrees?

    Michael Ejercito (d9a893)


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